I'm a UA-camr who does a lot of HTTYD themed content, and I just recently did an interview with one of the story coordinators of the franchise, and he informed me that it was in fact the director's original intention to have Dragon Bludvist return as the villain of the third movie, where we would expand on his story more. But DreamWorks gave them notes saying that it would be too dramatic and bring up too many sad memories of Stoick's death, so they were forced to create Grimmel instead. This was really disheartening for the team, as they were setting up a lot of really cool and emotional stuff with Drago and Hiccup's dynamic, but in the end it was just about money for DreamWorks. Grimmel is easily the worst part of the third movie for me, and I believe including Drago would've made the story more impactful by a landslide.
Didn’t help that they already did the “enemy that uses smarts over fighting like Hiccup “ with Viggo, so Grimmel just looks like an even worse villain in comparison
Personally I think Drago is a very lackluster villain in the 2nd movie but perhaps the dynamic he was gonna have with Hiccup in the original script of 3 could've been done in the 2nd film to make Drago a more compelling villain, but with Grimmel I would've definitely included a flashback of how he killed the Night Furies to flesh out his character a little more. Then again I guess Drago and Grimmel just aren't as good as Lord Shen. Atleast Drago was mentioned by name by Grimmel in HTTYD 3 unlike Shen who got no mention in KFP 3.
Yea as I thought...Dreamworks just wanted to "recompensate" for 2'nd movie beeing too mature and emotional ...ehhh why can't comapnys just accept that they don't only have kid audience and they can atcualy allow theyre movies to be more deep :/ Same happend to Owl house they shortend the 3'rd season just cuz it had more teenager audiences :/
That certainly explains why the villain was such a painful retread of the second movie villain without adding anything substantial and arguably being worse in his role.
The biggest problem with the third film’s ending is that it shoehorns the ending of the original books into a story that has a completely different setup from the books. The main difference is that in the books, Hiccup is *not* the first person to train a dragon. Berk and the other humans are already taming and domesticating them from the start, and have been doing so for centuries, so Hiccup and Toothless' friendship isn't a trailblazing idea that changes everything like it is in the movie. And unlike the films and the show, where each human bonds to their dragon as an equal, the dragons in the books are treated as pets and slaves (the only instruction Hiccup gets for training a dragon is literally yelling at it), so Berk is not and never becomes the technologically advanced dragon utopia that the movie version of Hiccup turns it into. The film series has always shown Berk’s relationship with dragons to be not only a mutually beneficial relationship, but a genuinely loving one, and the natural endgoal is for Hiccup to spread his influence to other islands (like he did in the show) and convince the rest of the world to accept and coexist with dragons the same way Berk did. Whereas the books take a similar approach to Dreamworks’ _Spirit_ where the dragons are wild animals who have endured centuries of oppression and cruelty at the hands of man, and while Hiccup himself comes to respect and care for them, there’s a much stronger sense that the other Berkians (and humans in general) will never truly change their ways. In the last few books the dragons even start an uprising and try to kill all the humans, and Hiccup realising that the two species can never learn to coexist peacefully is the natural lesson from everything he’s been through. The book's version of Hiccup changed the world by finally letting the dragons be free, whereas the film’s version of Hiccup changed the world by bringing dragons and humans together in the first place.
In the books Toothless was also with Hiccup until he died and then he left. It felt more natural and plausible for the characters even with the same point of "bad people want to use the dragons"
The book's Hiccup had no choice. The movie's hiccup had several. Also in the book is the fact that even if Hiccup, by some miracle, managed to create a new era of peace and prosperity between humans and dragons, it could be ruined in future generations, like Hiccup did first. After all, history tends to repeat itself.
One of the biggest fails in this movie is that the message of the first 2 movies (and the series) stated that toothless and Hiccup can take on any harm as long as they fight to stay together but the 3rd movie forsed them to separate in a way that seemed like they just gave up on all of their progress.
Imo it's a really mature conclusion to the franchise. Yes Hiccup and Toothless built a strong bond over the course of the first two films, but every time it put dragons and humans in danger, and endangered their ways of life. It's been building up all this time, and this movie gives this franchise such an artistic and mature conclusion.
@@seematahir5970 I agree but considering how heavy that message was written in the other films, I personally find that this new message wasn't written well in the movie. It was really rushed because of the amount of things the writers tried to focus on.
@@seematahir5970 So not true. In both movies we were shown how humans and dragons working together benefits both of them. The red death as the oppressor of dragons is only defeated because humans and dragons stand up to her together. If it wasn’t for the friendship of Hiccup and Toothless, Drago would’ve eventually come to Berk and force everyone to submit to him and the dragons would’ve been all forced to fight in his army, even if Berk wasn’t on good terms with dragons. The message that both movies hammered into our heads is that because of their friendship Hiccup and Toothless can go beyond their limits and it benefits both dragons and humans. Bad things don’t happen because of their friendship but they get resolved because of it. This whole “segregation is better for both of them” stuff was only brought up in in THW and it completely goes against the message of the previous movies. The reason they have to separate: bad humans will always exist. Wow. How mature. It completely disregards that Toothless is forcing every dragon to go to thw even though it’s likely that not all of them want to go there. It’s throwing everything they’ve worked for for 6 years completely overboard and only because of the general statement that bad humans will always exist? After defeating the easiest villain they’ve ever faced? No one even died in that battle. No one even got injured. But I’m supposed to believe that this was the straw that broke the camel’s back? Hiccup didn’t give up after loosing his leg. He didn’t give up after a bad human forced his best friend to kill his own father. But some weird Russian guy that captured their dragons and then they freed them and then they defeated him was supposed to make Hiccup give up on all of o his ideals? Sorry but I’m not convinced.
One very minor thing I didn't like was toothless,in the first 2 films he was cute,fierce and badass and different times,not too cute and not too badass,perfectly balanced as all things should be,but in the 3rd movie he was rarely badass,sometimes cute but mostly goofy,he was acting a bit too much like an excited dog,he lacked ferocity which I just love seeing
Toothless' ability to flip on a dime from "The Unholy offspring of lightning and death itself" to "cute puppy" was part of what made his design so fantastically appealing and lovable in the first place
In my opinion, they shouldn't have gone with the ending of the book series for this movie. The last two films have set up how the bond between humans and dragons is not only born from trust, but is mutually beneficial. The humans get the protection and service or the dragons, while the dragons get food and shelter... And that's not even considering the genuine connection they feel for one another. So to end it with them separating? It felt wrong, and not very satisfying in my eyes.
I felt like the 3rd movie got rid of the theme of co existence in exchange for true love. It felt like hiccups friendship with toothless was purposefully ruined so there could never be another movie
I see a lot of hate on the Light fury's design. Most people wanted it to end with Toothless finding another Night fury, or even a couple of Night fury, not a glittery flying beluga. But the ending just contradicts the whole message of the first two stories, overcome and continue on. There was so much progress in the first two movies about Dragons living side by side with people, and they threw that out the window in the third film because Toothless' new partner made him chose, her or his best friend.
I swear the hidden world should have been where all the remaining night furies would have been, I mean it feels like it would make more sense that this h i d d e n world held something much greater than basically another dragon nest
I already knew that this movie was broken the moment Toothless/Light Fury was presented. Why? Because it's obsessive lust being portrayed as true love. Ditching your family and friends for a girl you barely know is lust, not love.
I would like her more if one she wasn't or didn't felt like toothless only motivation to ditch hiccup and two her babies with toothless wasn't so hideous
I think the third HTTYD film is really thematically inconsistent with the previous installments. I'm not opposed to movies about a friendship ending with bittersweet separation - Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron is an excellent example of that done really well - but in that story, it made sense. Meanwhile in HTTYD 3, the separation is basically completely antithetical to the themes of the first movie, which is why it feels so wrong to me.
Exactly. Spirit worked because during the movie was constantly saw Spirit being unhappy when he was with humans, even when he had happier moments, at the end of the day he was still miserable and wanted to live in the wild again. Toothless on the other hand never showed any of those concerns - instead dude literally destroyed the mechnical fin that Hiccup made for him in the Nightfury special back then because he never wanted to fly without Hiccup - Third movie just comes along to destroy all of that
@@anfani6839 i don't think it destroy that much the theme of the others movies i mean toothless doing the best for his clan was actually always there the point that ruined it was the light fury arc if they wanted so badly to give toothless a main love interest at least made toothless found her on the hidden world or she be willing to live with toothless and toothless refusing for the sake of not wanting her to live without freedom
The problem is not the contradiction of previous themes, that can be done. What's wrong is that it isn't believable, or, the material structure of the script does not make us believe that those characters would chose immediate and long lasting (if not perpetual) separation on that time and circumstances.
@@joaomarcos2089 If you're going to reexamine or contradict previously established themes, that needs to be done with careful consideration and conscious intent. Otherwise, you get contradictory messaging that lacks cohesion, which is exactly what happened. And you're correct in that it also simply does not make sense from an in-universe perspective either, logistically, nor was it properly justified from the perspective of character motivations.
I genuinely cannot wrap my head around how people think this is a good sendoff to HTTYD's legacy, when the first movie was all about understanding each other and working together to build a better world, while this one was about separating BACK into your original in-groups, giving up, and just passively waiting for the world to fix itself because actively making the world a better place is, like, super hard.
Man I feel the exact same, I simply cannot understand why anyone would think this is an accurate and good movie/ending. If the send off was anyway accurate then shouldn’t we send away our dogs and cats? In the movie they sent them away because of “there will always be bad people”. Of course there will be like what? That dosent mean give up. If we lived like that then we would have to send dogs and cats away because people abuse them to.
I think one big issue with the ending (not mentioning the contradictory nature of it not following the themes of the other movies and series) is that the writers just wouldn't commit to it. They wanted to give us a heartbreaking ending, but then right after, we see the main characters temporarily reunite in the epilogue. So then, what's the point of the overdramatic ending if they can just visit eachother from time to time? Why bother making a holiday special if they're supposed to be gone? Sure, the dragons are still hiding, even on New Berk, but there's no necessary reason for this special to exist at all. With the large focus being on Nightlights, I'm convinced it was mostly for marketing. They sabotaged their own ending for the sake of selling merchandise.
The problem about the ending was that the director had that ending envisioned from the books (which are entirely different from the movies) and then the crew probably had to work their way backwards and somehow make sense of it, but since the entire ending doesnt make sense in any world of those movies, it feels like its just unfitting to no end. The holiday special was garbo, btw. I cant believe they'd just write Hiccups&Astrids Kids like they hate dragons again and want to hunt them down... Did Astrid and Hiccup not teach them well??? Smh
I know it's 4 months after the comment was posted but still. There is something like pre-screening testing with a chosen audience demographic; it's really likely the reunion was not even in the pre-release version of the movie and without it people disliked the movie; so Dreamworks had to attach a post-credit scene where the family unites. When you take in consideration the director's comment after this meeting Toothless "kinda forgot" about Hiccup entirely, I'm pretty sure that was the case why the reunion scene exists and winter special
@@lotsofspots It was, like, a decade later at least. Toothless was a now long-wild animal in wary, protecting-his-family-from-potential-hunters mode. It would realistically take a minute to recognize an old friend after so long, face covered with hair and traveling by boat alongside strangers, especially when you're initially more concerned about whether they're here to kill you. You wanna rag on them dragging it out, rag on the holiday special. Homecoming was a far worse cash grab that doesn't make sense in timeline or character, even more so than 3 by a long shot, to the point where I don't get how it could be canon.
It made me cry, then I started researching it because I was utterly dissatisfied with the ending of not only the movie but also supposedly the franchise.
Ending felt unearned. hiccup just decided for everyone that everyones dragons should leave and that was that, this was right after defeating the threat, an ending like this makes more sense when the threat cant be defeated its not like we had any major deaths or moments that made this particular dragon hunting issue less manageable than past ones. The lightfury and toothless is also just done so very badly and the way toothless just goes iff immediately with a dragon he just met leaving hiccup also feels very out of character (The light furys poor design as a “femme” themed dragon aside) I think a movie set up where they are constantly fighting off threats from the get go and have to hunt down the hidden world as a safe place to stay only to find its not a safe place for humans so they have to leave the dragons would work better Having toothless meet another nightfury there wud feel more impactful too and having toothless unwilling to leave hiccup would help show their bond is still strong Also Them going to see the dragons at the end just feels..unfair, like oh hiccups family gets to sneak off to meet his dragons but everyone else obviously their bond with their dragon was unimportant Theres just a lot that isnt fleshed out or feels earned in this one i heard another studio had a helping hand on it and tbh it really shows
I think you're very spot on as a huge fan of the series i wanted to like this movie but I really couldn't yes the animation was great but there were some big problems with all of this like the light fury being a possessive girlfriend and I didn't mind her feminine look that much but it would have been better if they showed more light furies even maybe a male one that would have make it less awkward plus having her and exactly her the reason toothless decided to leave it's spitting on the friendship theme of the movie like friendship overcome mind control but not lust also the writing was kind of bad plus there's other places with dragons you're gonna tell me that all of them went to the hidden world or you left yourself completely unprotected if someone with dragons attack and potential other dragons stay slave cause you think you free them all or cannot free them without dragons
The first how to train your dragon movie has been a comfort and favorite movie for me pretty much ever since it came out. But I found the 3rd movie to be really disappointing and I really just dislike the 3rd movie. One of my biggest issues with the movie is Grimmel’s entire concept. imo, it doesn’t make any sense that he is the Night Fury killer, or that anyone for that matter could eradicate the entire Night Fury species except for Toothless. For one, in the first movie, for the past 7 generations before Hiccup, no one had ever killed a Night Fury, much less SEEN a Night Fury. And it makes sense why they never had. Night Furies are incredibly intelligent, fast, and stealthy, and you the only time you could ever sort of see one was when it’s silhouette blocked out the stars in the sky. So how did this ONE guy kill all of them? And you’re gonna try to tell me that he somehow killed every Night Fury in the entire world? He also spewed a bunch of bullshit acting all smart and knowing everything about Night Furies, but really, a lot of it didn’t add up with all the other information that we’ve been given before the third movie. For example when he said that Night Furies can’t survive in the cold. One of the very first lines we ever heard in the first movie was “it snows 9 months of the year and hails the other 3”. Also, in gift of the Night Fury, we could see Toothless being just fine in the cold. Grimmel just felt like a half-assed excuse of a villain to explain why there weren’t any more Night Furies. It would have made more sense to me to make the Light Fury the near extinct one. In the night time, she would stick out like a sore thumb and be EASILY able to be seen and shot down. Even in the day she would stick out. They’re glittery, and bright white. Ever seen the sun hit a white cat/dog/car? Brightest most blinding thing you ever seen in your life. Yeah they can disappear through the plasma blasts, but only for a couple seconds at a time. It just doesn’t make sense to me. The whole trilogy we were hyped up and teased by Dreamworks about finding another *Night fury*. Instead we got one of the most disappointing dragon designs in the franchise (imo). Last point I want to make even though I could go on forever, is that the Light Fury has such a terrible personality, and Toothless was so blinded by love that multiple times he almost let the Light Fury kill Hiccup and not even really try to stop her. Before in ANY of the 2 movies before, Toothless would’ve immediately shut that down and given a pretty nasty bite to show for it. None of that in the third movie. In fact, I couldn’t see ‘Unholy offspring of lightning and death itself’ in this movie at all. Just a slobbery, h*rny, mess of a giant puppy dog with principles as strong as a paper straw. Overall very disappointing movie and felt like a halfassed way to quickly end the franchise.
1# Toothless doesn’t find other Night Furies. This is something I was hoping to see eventually in the series. Toothless would reunite with others of his kind and learn from them how to be a true Night Fury. But, nah, Toothless has to be the last of his kind cause Grimmel slayed em’ all. Sure, whatever😓 2# Humans & dragons separate forever. This really bugged me cause the whole franchise was about how the two co-exist together. Why didn’t the humans move to the hidden world with the dragons where they could’ve remained safe forever? Or the why didn’t the dragons just stay on New Berk & continue fighting against people who think their way of life is wrong cause no matter what there would always be people who wouldn’t like them? 3# The Light Fury. I got nothing against the species, but rather the character. I found her boring. She’s possessive of Toothless & rebukes him whenever he mentions humans - basically telling him it’s me or Hiccup. Other than that, she had no divining characteristics.😪 4# Toothless. He’s too placid. The Light Fury attacks Hiccup several times & he does nothing to punish her for it whereas in the other movies or series he’s ready to rip apart anyone who so much as looks at his rider the wrong way. Plus, he’s ready to leave all he & Hiccup have worked for cause some random female comes along. Nope😒 So, yeah, this is why I believed the ending was a let down. What’cha think?
Actually you made good points but i feel like the light fury existence would be much more justify if we saw another one of her species maybe even a male one that could be toothless's rival instead it's just show that she was specially made to be toothless's love interest instead of someone of even his own species
you summed it up perfectly, I was so conflicted on what was bugging me throughout the film but you just managed to express all my concerns in a simple youtube comment. Well done you ❤
I think there are also mixed feelings about Light Fury. They presented her as really possessive girlfriend. The type that will take you away from your friends because ,,she has to be the only one in her bf life" literally. She pretty much showed up and ruined whole coexistance between humans and dragons. All dragons were fine living like that beside her. Yeah nobody wanted to force her to move from Hidden World but at the same time she forced Toothless to choose living with her in Hidden World or just don't be with her at all, no compromise about making visits or something. They talked about that people attacks won't stop with dragons. Not true. People will be attacking no matter if there are dragons or not. Berk just left themselves more exposed and that's all. While having dragons and story about Hiccup beating both Grimmel and Drago, word would spread and nobody would mess with Berk for long time. Movie wanted to send message ,,If you love them, let them go" but at the same time sent message ,,Friendships ends after marriage because your wife said so and you can't complain"
Exactly that's was my main issue the friendship strong enough to resist mind control was destroyed by love if they wanted to give toothless a girlfriend he could have found her inside the hidden world that way the reason to move there could be something less stupid like toothless starting to feel lonely or basically anything
@@billykaplan9915 Or she could have agree like other dragons that vikings from Berk are cool and she doesn't need to separate Toothless from Hiccup to be with him. She should have accept that from time to time Toothless would want to spend time with Hiccup too because they are best friends. Also Toothless has damaged tail and I believe Hiccup made new tail to last few years but then what? Hiccup probably also moved to visit Toothless to also check on his tail or switch it to new model for another few years. If she would be stubborn to keep Toothless away, one day Toothless would lose ability to fly again. Hiccup is only person who can fix his tail so full separation is out of the question. One day if Toothless would broke his fake part of tail she would either fly back to Hiccup anyway or in cruel way keep Toothless grounded till Hiccup would decide to visit.
My main annoyance with the Light Fury storyline is that Toothless has been established as more intelligent than most of the Vikings, and yet he's immediately reduced to a NatGeo comical bird-mating-dance the instant a vaguely compatible female shows up? Show us getting to know her, show us _why_ Toothless would fall in love with her. Otherwise he's just some dumb animal driven by pheromones and instinct.
Exactly! Everything the movie did, the show did better. Hiccup had amazing chemistry with vigo and the world building is much better. Also, it always bothered me that in race to the edge they fly for days and in the movies everything is just a couple of hours away.
@@rodrigovillegas2263 the really big difference is that one is the show and the other a movie. Do I think they could have made Grimmel more menacing? Yes. Viggo is my fave villain but he had so many episodes to be focused on while the movie is only 90mins. Not to mention that the movies focus more on the characters and their development and the shows give us much more plot to work with
@zoorockf1 I agree with your comment about his character as a whole, but if you compare the destruction made by Drago and by Grimmel ON SCREEN (because talking about it can be reduced to rumors, which have less of an impact on the viewers), Drago was more powerful of a villain than Grimmel was (again, on screen).
I've been saying this for year's! I was a fan since I was 4 year's old and seeing people praising the third for toothless getting a girlfriend got so much under my skin. I'm glad people are realizing what was really wrong with it. I know a lot of fans including my friends where disappointed but a lot of people praised it and i never saw why. I'm glad they're finally opening their eyes
I think my biggest complaint was the dragons-specifically Toothless and the Light Fury. I don’t even remember if they gave her name or what it is-that’s not generally a good sign. She had like no character to her. I couldn’t tell you a single thing about her. Toothless suffers from this to an extent as well. He just felt more like a character in the Other films, while in this one he felt less like an intelligent being and more like:.. a dog. And sure, he behaved like a dog sometimes in the other films, but that was never JUST what he was.
To me personally. How to train your dragon 3 is definitely the weakest in terms of the story and characters. Even though I did understand the ending. It didn't feel natural to me. When Hiccup told Toothless to lead the dragons to the hidden world. It basically destroyed the core messages and everything the franchise was building up to at that point. And Grimmel was definitely a very generic villain. I definitely would have been happy with them bringing back Drago from the second film which is what they originally planning to do.
After watching THW for the first time I was like "meh" The story went exactly the way I predicted it from the trailer so I wasn't surprised or shocked or anything. The movie had some good scenes but that's it. After 2 years after watching it for the first time I realized that I couldn't remember the plot, only: we started out here, then scenes happened but I can't put them together to form a coherent plot and then the dragons left. So I rewatched it. Turns out the reason I couldn't remember the movie's coherent plot is because it had none. Things happened and characters did things but after watching it again I didn't find anything worth remembering about the plot. And then I started deconstructing the whole thing and that's when I realized that I really don't like that movie. The characters are very out of character. Everything they try to convey is done in a bold "hits you right in the head with it" kind of way and it completely lacks subtlety. The movie relies heavily on telling instead of showing. The villain is boring and incompetent and completely relies and Hiccup's superior incompetence to win. The light fury is bland and toxic. The reason humans and dragons had to be segregated wasn't convincing to me. Just the whole movie started falling apart as soon as the cognitive dissonance started wearing off.
"Movie look pretty and well animate" as a fill-in for an actual good story is too common. It's infuriating. That's ALL I heard about this movie from people that gush about how "good" it was - it looked cool. That's it.
@@drawingdragon Ikr - I hated the third movie ever since I saw it in the theaters back in 2019 and most people online loved the movie back then and praised it to no ends and I was seriously asking myself if there was something wrong with me, like wtf - And tbh they made Toothless look like a plastic toy in the third installment. He didnt look like a dragon anymore like in Movie 1
Not to mention the CHARACTER ASSASSINATION oh my god. Valka, the badass dragon taking woman? Basically nothing, almost no lines THW. Eret, who had such huge potential to be developed significantly? Almost nothing. I wanted him to become part of the main group. Astrid? The smart badass partner of hiccup and his voice of reason? All she is is the stupid wife character. Also I missed the cute dragon shenanigans. Like the “Stormfly, drop. Stormfly, fetch!” All the dragons apart from toothless had zero character at all
@@0800sofa And not even Toothless had any character. He was reduced to a slobbery, horny animal that cares about one thing and one thing only: getting laid. He doesn't care about his duties as alpha but he wants every dragon to follow his command regardless, he doesn't get a flight scene with Hiccup and he likes the light fury simply because ✨️she girl✨️, no other reason. The light fury had to do nothing to prove herself to him, all she had to do was exist for Toothless to willingly and readily abandon his best friend of 6 years just to be together with her after knowing her for no longer than a week.
Yea that "characters beeing out of character" really bugged me too :/ ...and horrible joke about Snotlout simping for Hiccups mom.....just no. + it annoyed me that Valka didn't do anything herself she just comes up to Astrid and tells her what SHE should say to Hiccup 0-0 ur his mother just do it yourself...or the other way around (Astrid) ur his girlfriend for God knows how long ! you shouldn't just wait and stand around untill somone Tells you how to comfort your other half
Absolutely _loved_ the first movie, liked the second, and... well, I haven't bothered rewatching the third. Felt too busy, to much focus on the side characters and cookie-cutter villain, instead of the core relationship of Hiccup and Toothless which was the heart of the previous ones.
I think the reason HTTYD THW feels so out of place compared to the other movies is because they tried to make it too similar to, well, HTTYD. As in the books. For those that don't know, the original HTTYD books were very different from the adaptation! So much so, that the animated HTTYD franchise is more loosely based on it than intended to be accurate. The stories had similarities, but ultimately had two very different worlds set up. From what I've read, Luna was the second-in-command to a dragon named Furious. She was so bright, she radiated heat (Luna is also probably the reason so many people nickname the Light Fury Luna, as they do share notable similarities!). Luna was part of a rebellion, and believed that Vikings should not control dragons. Keep in mind that in the books, dragons were often servants, not partners. Hiccup agreed with her, and she eventually led the dragons into hiding. (edited because I made a mistake right here) The books start off with Hiccup stating there were dragons when he was a boy, so the audience already understands they're going to be separated eventually. The HTTYD animated franchise up until THW had the tone of "This is how many of our greatest foes became our best friends!" when the books never really did that, from my understanding. The sudden similarity and tone shift to match the books doesn't line up with everything else, because all the animated media did up until that point was reinforce the idea Hiccup and Toothless were inseparable, so seeing them separated just feels... wrong.
Luna shares zero similarities with the Light Fury, other than being white-colored and not liking humans, and none of the dragons in the dragon rebellion like humans, that’s why there’s a rebellion. You don’t have to keep justifying the movie, you can just consider it non-canon.
@@Jdudec367 I don't understand these people. k random troll your baseless, disconnected from the argument mockery of what I said convinced me, of... something 👍 ignoring ur billion replies now
It felt rushed, Grimmel felt unoriginal and not a real villain (Viggo from the show was a better villain regardless of his conclusion) Also I would have been fine with the movie if the message was "I accept the fact that you have a separate life from me and I don't have to be around you 24/7" but the movie doesn't do that The idea that dragons have to be separated from humans because two villains used them for evil purposes is a flimsy reason. According to the logic, we should send all domestic cats and dogs into the wild because of the few humans that use and abuse them. Doing that doesn't really solve anything Also as someone else pointed out, the Light Fury (sometimes I call her Luna) acted like a possessive girlfriend and I think it would have been interesting to show that not all humans are bad but again the movie doesn't really flesh out her personality or have her learn anything
I have said this before and I'll say it again: the "hidden world" should have been the lost pack of nightfuries. Imagine toothless funding out that there are still furies around. He wouldn't have been the last of his kind and would have gotten back his family. The light fury should have been a female night fury. If they really wanted that theme of "getting a family and settling" toothless should have gotten his family back. Not to mention every character is so ooc, especially toothless, ruffnut and snotlout. They butchered thier characterisation to fit the ending of the httyd books,,, which are an entirely different tale. The books ending of the dragons going away into hiding happened on their(the dragons) terms unlike the movie where they were basically forced by toothless. It's been 3 years and this movie still makes me mad. All the potential lost...
Yep, personally I didn’t mind that toothless was the last Night Fury, that was one of the things that made toothless special and unique, and it made hiccup special too. However I do agree, lost potential and bad movie, but my problem was that they left and that made no sense also toothless and hiccup weren’t the same person and were completely different, the villain was crap and the plot made no sense. And of course, the light fury.
When I first saw this film, I felt the same exact way, like, "That was it?" I wasn't satisfied with how the trilogy ended nor with how the story was handled and *the entire movie is overloaded with plots: Toothless finding a mate, the main baddie, Berk moving to a new place, AND the Hidden World of dragons.* The first two movies had simple plots to follow: Hiccup discovers Toothless and rids prejudice from Berk; Hiccup discovers his mom was a dragon rider and helps her defeat Drago. That's it. If I were one of the writers, I would've completely cut the last two plots and just have the story be about Toothless finding a girl and Hiccup coming across Grimmel. From what I remember, Grimmel was basically supposed to be what Hiccup would've been if he had killed Toothless back then which, to me, was a GREAT IDEA! Grimmel: a master Night Fury hunter who uses a female Fury and threatens to kill Toothless, raises the stakes compared to the previous movie, therefore dedicating more movie time to flesh out Grimmel and have Hiccup facing - essentially - his alternate self, which is more interesting than rehashing the 2nd movie's plot of finding a new dragon nest. If Hidden World had just gone the simpler route and stuck to what they had here already, I think it would've been better. And yes, about the ending respecting the books' ending .... as another commenter said on here, the movies are very loosely based on the books, and BARELY follow the same plot and elements. Having the exact same ending was not an obligation and I would've cut that too.
I honestly have a lot to say about this film now that I have sat down and thought about and listened to others' takes and came to my own conclusion. I promise I will try to keep it brief. First of all, out of the trilogy, this film is the weakest when it comes to the story. As other people have pointed out, the resolution of "now we have to separate the humans and dragons" makes zero sense concerning how the previous 2 films firmly established that humans and dragons can coexist. So for them to pull a 180 and randomly decide now is the time to bring in the book ending (when the films had very little to do with the books in the first place) makes no sense either. The push to separate hiccup and toothless feels like all that they fought for and proved in the last 2 films AND the TV series, feels extremely forced and unnatural. I remember watching the ending, and while yes I felt sad, I left the theater feeling "eh?" I know I am beating a dead horse when I say this but Grimmel is a generic villain. Grimmel was hyped up to be this end all be all villian, the final boss of the raid. But honestly? He is a discount Viggo Grimborn. I know a lot of people rank Grimmel as one of the best Dreamworks villain but that just shows me that those people haven't seen Race To The Edge. Viggo actually had Hiccup against a wall so many times and outsmarted him in ways that were well, actually smart. Grimmel just doesn't hit the same beats as Viggo, plus Viggo was just a business man, he didn't want control like Grimmel (which btw they already fucking did that in the 2nd film but whatever)which makes Viggo a more original and interesting villain. Grimmel just feels like a shoehorned wedge that was there for the sake of driving Toothless and Hiccup away from each other and proving that "humans and dragons can't live together because humans are too evil," which again is horse shit. Plus the whole "he single-handedly killed all the Nigh Furies" is just really hard to believe. Speaking of a wedge. . . I do not like the light fury as a "character" in this film. A director (I think) at dreamworks stated that the light fury would be a "Call of the Wild to Toothless." If that doesn't scream plot device then I don't know what does. Don't get me wrong, I love her design and I think she is very cute but that is as far as she goes for me. I get it, she is a skittish dragon from the wild and hasn't had a good experience with humans but holy fuck she is irritating in the film (she is even worse in Homecoming). I absolute DESPISE the trop where "years of establish friendship is ruined because a girlfriend is introduced and therefore the friendship is ended," that is basically exactly what happens here. She is literally just there for the purpose of driving a wedge between Hiccup and Toothless, if she wasn't there, hiccup and toothless would have still been together after defeating Grimmel. I get the argument that people make saying "well what about what Toothless wants?" Well I'll elaborate a little later on why the way the film went about that makes no sense either. The light fury is a possessive girlfriend that can't change herself for toothless, no toothless has to change his life for her, it is a one sided relationship. Even when at the end the light fury trusts hiccup, she still basically doesn't care that toothless is leaving a deep relationship with hiccup and just takes him away to the hidden world. It's just hollow and infuriating, again, it doesn't feel natural. This is a point that I don't see brought up a lot but I need to highlight this: Toothless is out of character in this film. Remember how toothless was hiccup's equal in the last two films (and TV series) and was always there for him and would fight tooth and nail to protect hiccup even over little things? Yeah well now he's horny. I get the fact that he's an animal but he has been shown time and time to be far more intelligent than most dragons. The scene that infuriates me the most to this day is the first meeting with the light fury. I understand that she was frightened and was defending herself, I am not mad at that, I am upset with how Toothless acted in that scene. She literally tried to kill hiccup and astrid TWICE within the span of 5 seconds, and what does toothless do? "Oh no don't hurt them pwease!" Like what the fuck? I get it she's pretty but she literally tried to murder his bestfriend of almost a decade and he just sits there fucking passive? Again, we have seen Toothless act protective of hiccup for LESS. But she doesn't just try to kill hiccup in one scene, she does it AGAIN in another when the Berkians were flying to a new island and she follows them and comes out of nowhere and grabs hiccup off of Toothless and fucking throws his ass flying in the air so he can fall to his death. What does toothless do? He just smiles passively and dives after him to catch him. She tried to kill his BESTFRIEND that he has love and protected for YEARS 3 TIMES and Toothless does nothing because she is a girl and she is pretty. What bullshit. Not to mention Toothless leaves with her to go to the hidden world with NO HINT of ever returning. I know hiccup gave him the ok to go on his first day but Toothless seemed content with staying with the light fury in the hidden world and didn't seem broken up about leaving hiccup. It wasn't until hiccup and astrid had to come AFTER HIM did he come back with hiccup, like hiccup was understandably worried about Toothless with Grimmel on the loose, but Toothless was ready to drop his entire life to be with her. In my opinion, Toothless was my least favorite part of this film, his character was changed just to get the plot at a certain place, it's so dumb. Im gonna speed run this point because this comment is getting long, but the side characters were a waste. All that growth from RTTE was for nothing and Snotlout hitting on Valka wasn't funny at all, it was really Cringy and hard to watch. Ruffnut has been in hostage situations before and has been smarter about it. The fact that she was so dumb to not check if Grimmel was following her was stupid. I know the twins are suppose to be dumb, but this feels really dumb. But overall, I don't like this film as much as the others. I get that people say that the message of "learning to grow up and let things go" is amazing, and yes I do agree. However, that message was done way better in Toy Story 3.
This!!! I hated how out of character everything was and how all character development was scratched, it felt like everyone Hiccup, Astrid, Valka and Eret were just comedic relief. They could've written the light fury in any way other than 'possessive girlfriend.' I truly hated that. And how Toothless suddenly doesn't care about his family because of a rude dragon he has just met. The theme of the entire franchise was Hiccup and Toothless through thick and thin, dragons and people can co-exist and there will always be evil but we can overcome it together. Tldr; it felt like we were watching different characters and the plot was possessive gf doormat bf
I think that much of the issue with the third movie are a direct result of fans watching one very specific part of the franchise: Race to the Edge. Viggo Grimborn is everything Grimmel should’ve been and more, he just doesn’t hold the title of nightfury killer. Grimmel is a great foil in concept for Hiccup. He’s very smart and doesn’t fit into the burly Viking stereotype just like Hiccup doesn’t. His key difference is that, according to him, instead of befriending a night fury, he killed it where it slept. And that was what was supposed to make him an intimidating villain that was an active threat. But we don’t see much of his actual hunting of Toothless. We just see that he’s almost able to outsmart Hiccup. The issue is that we’ve already seen that in RTTE with Viggo. RTTE isn’t canon, but Dreamworks should’ve acted as though it was. Because Grimmel looks like a rehash of Viggo but done worse. Heck, Viggo _DOES_ worse. He enslaved dragons, he unleashed a plague only curable through a thought extinct dragon, on a boat of people simply to create a demand for dragon hunting, he blocked off a safe, popular trade route to Berk to force Hiccup to relent, otherwise make his tribe face starvation, and so much more, all for a dragon hunting business. And yet Grimmel is what convinces Hiccup that dragons and Vikings shouldn’t live in the same world together, for the sake of the dragons? All Grimmel did was burn down the village. Dragons did that every other night for centuries, and that wasn’t ever enough to convince them to leave before, Hiccup included.
Wow great points seriously I agree with them all, nothing to add to that maybe except that Grimmel design and voice was not intimidating at all like how will he measure up to Viggo's voice actor who played Doc Ock... They made a story a conflict a divergence of path with Grimmel yet they didn't give it much time due to movie format which just did not have much of an impact in the whole OW! look at what HIccup could have become type of deal I like all 3 movies but I definitely am not satisfied with the last one... still it is one of the best trilogies out there. Viggo was such a good villain with so much character growth it's almost unreal honestly...
It‘s not just that Grimmel is inferior to Viggo, he is just very incompetent as a whole. First he uses a light fury as bait for Toothless, even though furies mate for life and this one light fury might already have a mate, rendering her completely useless as bait. Then he just drops her off at Berk without even restraining her. The poison could‘ve easily worn off before Toothless finds her and she could‘ve just flown off. Then he goes to Berk where Hiccup already knew he was coming(otherwise he wouldn’t have made Fishlegs pretend he is Toothless to protect him) and Grimmel is only able to do that because Hiccup didn’t even bother to increase defenses or build a trap to capture him or anything like that so if Hiccup didn’t just sit by like a dumb little boy then Grimmel would’ve gotten captured and it would be game over for him. Then he “predicts“ where Hiccup and Berk would go by saying that furies can’t survive in the cold when the real reason that Hiccup went that way was to search for the hidden world, meaning if Grimmel wasn’t as lucky and the general direction of thw was elsewhere he wouldn’t have found them and his plan would’ve failed. Then he shoots down the light fury and then Toothless but he’s only able to do that because T steps out of the grass where he had cover while powering up a very slow but powerful blast like a dumbass, allowing Grimmel to shoot him down before he can fire. If T wasn’t as stupid, if he had just fired a quick blast to disarm him before going for the kill, Grimmel would be dead already. Every ounce of his “competence” derives from him being very lucky or Hiccup and Toothless being incredibly stupid, nothing he does shows that he’s actually smart. Viggo on the other hand - he’s brilliant. His plans are well thought through and although we see that Hiccup isn’t dumb and he manages to keep up with Viggo he still loses to him sometimes -not because Hiccup is incompetent but because Viggo is even smarter than Hiccup.
@@Luna-ny9fq exactly. And Viggo felt legitimately intimidating at times, even to me as I watched. He thought things out so well and so far ahead, that it catches even the audience off guard at times. And yeah, the show had the advantage of being 6 seasons long, so they had more time to flesh out Viggo’s character, but that was also while doing so with 4 other main villains, that being Dagur to a point, Ryker, Krogan, and Trader(Traitor) Johann. And that was ON TOP of building up the characters and arcs of Hiccup and the gang, Heather, Stoick, Mala and Throk, and the Wing Maidens, and even GOTHI of all people in the episode all about her and the Snow Wraith. And the creators did an honestly fantastic job of building up the characters and having every little detail and plot twist thought out. But then Grimmel comes along and his character is not only lacking, but in context of the entire trilogy and shows, it feels like a ginormous plot hole tbh. If Grimmel is supposedly so well known for hunting night furies and stuff, how the heck has nobody in the entirety of the archipelago heard of him. You could argue that he’s a stranger from a strange land like Drago, but that’s completely ignoring all the traders, and eventually Hiccup and the gang, who wander outside of the archipelago and meet people who are not friends with dragons, or they still fight dragons. And nobody at any point thinks, “let’s get that one guy who’s supposed to be the night fury hunter”? Not even the dragon hunters/Viggo? Not even Valka, who’s been further out than anyone on Berk? And going off of that, if you have a guy who’s a night fury killer and has seen them and lived to tell the tale, why is Berk in the dark, not knowing a single thing about the species, not even what it looks like? Maybe that’s thinking too deeply about it bc obviously there is some retconning with certain aspects of the trilogy, but still.
@@sealink129 At the very latest you’d think that Eret would’ve mentioned to Hiccup that there’s a night fury killer out there after he became good. But of course he didn’t do that until it was too late (and convenient for the plot)
@@charko4191 idk. I think his voice and design had potential to be menacing and is ok, but they made him too…. Idk. Too humorous maybe? I think it’s in his personality. He’s so like, arrogant and confident in his abilities, but at no point really shows us that he can be a legitimate threat, especially when we constantly see him mocking Hiccup and underestimating him, even though we only really see him get the best of Hiccup like, two or three times. And almost every time is simply out of ambush rather than cunningness and outsmarting Hiccup. Drago, though yes, had brute strength and a bulky, towering build, was also menacing in personality. He yelled a lot, he was obviously very brutal and slightly psychotic, he was able to build his army and command a dragon hundreds of times his size, through nothing but intimidation and his terrifying presence. I think with Grimmel, they gave him too many of like, Hiccup’s qualities, while also trying to make him different and I’m not sure it worked in their favor. Hiccup’s smart, he’s funny and sarcastic, he’s a walking stick but can fight really well, with dragons and without, etc. but then we get to Grimmel, and he’s obviously meant to be a foil of Hiccup, but of substantially lesser competence than Hiccup. And I think it hurts the story more than it helps the character. There’s right ways of doing foils between protagonists and antagonists, and Grimmel ain’t it.
the movie tried to rush into the ending the books did, and it didn't work at all. for those who don't know, yes the movies are based on a series of 12 books by the same name. i'll try not to lean too hard into spoilers here because i really do recommend reading them. a huge difference between the books and the movies is that in the books, dragons are (for the most part) sentient beings with their own language, that have been enslaved for hundreds of years. a war is sparked in the last few books of the series by a dragon leading a rebellion against humans. when hiccup is finally able to get through the the leader, the narrative acknowledges that dragons and humans CAN live together in peace, but society takes a long time to change, and for every good person, there is someone who will want to harm dragons. so hiccup tells the dragons if they decide that by the end of hiccup's lifetime humanity hasn't improved sufficiently, they can go hide and hibernate and wait it out. this is a gradual process, a process that is entirely optional on the dragons' part. it takes hundreds of years for dragons to fully go into hiding, and (and this is important) toothless STAYS. he, like many many other dragons, love their humans too much to leave. he never goes into hiding. he never leaves hiccup behind. the movies (ironically, because they've never cared about staying true to the books before) try to rush into this ending, and they get it so, so wrong. instead of a gradual retreat, all the dragons immediately go hide in a singular cave. all at once. unlike in the books, they were not in the middle of a long and bloody war. dragons and humans were co-habituating just fine for the most part. every single dragon, including toothless, abandons their humans on a whim. despite the movies building up to how humans and dragons could live together in peace, this was abruptly given to us as the only right solution. sorry, i call bullshit.
As a fellow books reader, this is well said! The movie ending should not correlated to book ending at all. Unless if things went worse like in the books, it wouldn't make sense for "the world doesn't deserve dragons yet" narrative. They should have make their own ending
I read somewhere that Toothless DID leave, but not permanently like in the movies. He would frequently visit Hiccup, but as the years went by, those visits would become less and less frequent to the point where Hiccup felt that Toothless' next visit would probably be his last (due to Hiccup's old age and inevitable demise). Correct me if I'm wrong though.
@@rebekahsegun8319 he didn't "leave" persay, but hiccup acknowledged him as his own person who was allowed to do what he liked. when toothless felt like flying around on his own for a while, he was allowed to do that, but he always ALWAYS came back. and yes, the book ends with hiccup as an elderly man waiting for toothless to fly in through the window one last time, knowing and trusting in their bond that his best friend would always come back to him.
My biggest qualm with the 3rd & final installment of the HTTYD film series is the Light Fury, but not for the reasons you may initially think. I've had this discussion with some friends of mine (who are also hardcore HTTYD nerds) and I brought this controversial take up to them (spoilers ahead)... *It ultimately wouldn't have mattered if Grimmel had killed the Light Fury.* I know, I know. Hold your pitchforks and let me explain why I say this. For starters, there are two reasons as to why I believe this. *1) The Light Fury is Expendable* Light Furies, unlike their Night Fury counterparts, are not on the brink of extinction. If Grimmel had killed Toothless's girl, Toothless could easily find another female Light Fury to get with. The only reason the audience cared about the main Light Fury in the movie is because we see her relationship with Toothless & how she makes him happy. We're made to care about her. However, the point still stands - she's expendable. Sure, you could argue that if she had been a female Night Fury, that plot point would have been super predictable, but at *LEAST* the stakes would be a LOT higher in the Hidden World's final fight scene where Grimmel is threatening the life of Toothless's mate: Grimmel would be threatening the permanent extinction of the Night Fury species as a whole, which brings me to my second point... *2) The Villain Won in The End* While it is true that Hidden World ended on a bittersweet note that left us all teary-eyed yet happy, I can't help but to be a little disappointed by the villain winning. How? Well, Grimmel's whole schpeel was "to eliminate Night Furies once and for all." Which is effectively what happened. The Night Fury dragon species (assuming that Grimmel was telling the truth about him effectively eliminating 99% of the Night Fury species and he was indeed *NOT* exaggerating out of his own arrogance) is no more. There are Light Furies and yes, there is also the brand new Night-Light Furies....but Grimmel ultimately had his wish fulfilled. Night Furies are no more. After Toothless dies from old age, illness, etc. that is.
You know, before this movie came out, when I was in high school, I was expecting the main villain to be something like the Fire Nation from TLA, where there was this large cult nation of dragon haters that heard about Toothless's existence as the alpha and try to hunt him down. I even drew a poster for this idea when I was in high school. I wasn't disappointed that that wasn't the case, but I kinda wish it was.
If anyone read the official art book, all the quotes from the directors and producers about the Light Fury’s design made it abundantly clear that she’s not designed that way to look aquatic or be accurate to living underground or any kind of scientific reasons the fans try to use to excuse it. Nope. It’s all because they wanted her to look girly- attractive, “not fall too much into the reptilian category,” “smooth,” “feminine,” and with no spikes or scars or even markings that could look like scars because she needs to look as attractive as possible. Even though she’s a fucking dragon. All they could do was go on and on about making her attractive and feminine and graceful and feminine, nothing scientific whatsoever. Her tiny feet, heart shaped tail, round wings, lack of ear flaps, tiny nose, glittery scales, faint pink highlights, (yes she had faint heart-shaped pink highlights in the movie) etc. had no reason but that. Those directors just don’t deserve the fans and their efforts to make it sound better.
Honestly, the friendship between Toothless and Hiccup was so much stronger than this. It's so disappointing to see Toothless immediately run off with the light fury; a character that should've just stayed a fan-made thing. At the end of the first film, the side by side comparison we get of Toothless and Hiccup walking through the door held the sweetest message in the entire franchise. The scene focuses on both Toothless's missing tail wing and Hiccup's prosthetic leg as they walk together, Toothless allowing Hiccup to lean on him for balance. They needed each other! They were always stronger together!!! Seeing the way the third movie ended just never sat right with me. Not only that, but I noticed differences in Toothless's design and attitude that felt wrong. His giant brow bones? A beefy chest and more exposure of his gums? He looked and acted way more cat-like, mysterious, sleek and intelligent in the first movie than any of the sequels. We fell in love with that version of Toothless for a reason. Seeing him become a dumbed down dog-like dragon slobbering up a storm, panting and showing his gums so often just to score extra cuteness points from the audience felt weird. Toothless turning into a badass fighter jet of a dragon in the end of the first movie was brilliant as well and I just wish we could've seen more of that Toothless.
They just dismissed the theme of the franchise in this movie. All the characters except a few (not including Toothless sadly, he seemed like a completely different 1D character in this) were so watered down and just felt like comedic relief, scrapping all the development and depth they had. The light fury's entire personality is just a rude possessive girlfriend and Toothless abandoned everyone for her, he barely knew her and was already okay with her trying to KILL Astrid and Hiccup, in past movies and shows he would not have let that slide. When Hiccup sends him off to find her, he just leaves and doesn't look back? Horrible and out of character, he would've left his whole family of a decade for a dragon he barely knows that has tried to kill them (his family) multiple times already, for what?! Because she's pretty!?! Absolutely idiotic. "He's a wild animal what do you expect" *wild gestures at the 2nd movie plot* He has also been shown to have higher intelligence than most dragons and a higher emotional intelligence too. Plus the httyd dragons are shown to be extremely smart for animals.
Toothless might as well just be Hiccup's brother from another mother, he really isn't much dumber than a human, if at all. And like, she's not even technically his own species, he never seemed to try mating with other species before even when he disappeared off during that Christmas special a few years back - only to bring back Hiccup's helmet instead of a girlfriend - so, it just feels jarrings that now suddenly he'd go for anything vaguely resembling a nightfury even though they're not the exact same species. Really, they could have done this those few years back, introducing the light fury then, either just as someone who Toothless just missed in the search for the helmet and make her seem less shoehorned in because of it, with her having cameos every now and again to remind us that she exists, or he could have even actually met her then, but returned like all the other dragons did after mating season was over because, well, why wouldn't he return to the island where was far better off for most of the year, having food, companionship and protection? It just feels like they never really thought this through and wanted something marketable. Because if they did, this all would have been in their drafts during the time the series was first being released if not sooner.
It's weird because, yes. He was a wild animal.. keyword, WAS, but Hiccup trained and bonded with him throughout the years of growing up together. He's more domesticated than wild.
@@T_E_G and the years he was “domesticated”/with hiccup, were the happiest of his life. Yet some people somehow think it’s a good ending that he left with the night fury
Finally, someone talks about this. This movie has bugged me from the day I first saw it, and my dislike of it only grew since. Seeing the comments, glad to know I’m not the only one upset about this bundle of wasted potential.
I found Grimmel to be more than a generic villain. He doesn't want to control the dragons and take over the world. He thought he had the honor of killing off all the night furies and just wants to finish the job. He's a hunter first and foremost, but no warlord. He's essentially what Hiccup could have become had he killed Toothless in the first movie.
Yet he won in the end, with no more dragons...not to mention how all of his facts on Night Furies incorrect, eluding to the possibility I'm 100% sure he's nothing but a fraud and a liar.
True, honestly I think they could have left out the war lords because we don’t ever get any real background except for conquering the world and getting a dragon army. Grimmer felt like a good villain. Not some crazy warlord no just an exceptional Hunter with his pride.
@@Dinologan1015 Exactly! He says night furies can't survive in the cold when this is clearly false as we've seen toothless survive just fine on berk and on berk during the winter. Berk is also described as freezing cold in the first movie so we know grimmel is talking out of his ass
@@coffeecaim2527 Tbh it would be interesting if in the end he lied about killing all night furies or any at all ( like idk he just found one dead alredy and claimed to the villege he killed it and become addicted to fame so he became dragon hunter). However slowwly the guilt of the lie started to eat away at his sanity cuz even though he became excelent dragon hunter ,he never trully killed a night fury. All his life of lies he tried to find the night fury and finally kill it, he build his reputation around that lie so when he found a living Night Fury he decided that thats it he can finally fullfill his obbsesion by killing Toothless, his life would be complete.
My own rendition of the movie >:) Something that would’ve made the movie more interesting would be the Light fury being controlled by the deathgrippers’ venom. (A similar situation to when we first got introduced to Heather in RoB/DoB) She would be cunning and try to separate Hiccup and Toothless, her true personality showing through occasionally. Then eventually she finds a way (like in HTTYD 2 when Toothless shoots Stoick) to make Hiccup angry at Toothless, separating them both emotionally and physically. She would then lure Toothless to Grimmel to be captured, but as they get there the venom wears off and they have to try and escape. The Light fury’s true personality would shine through. (Not the same personality as in the movie- that was kind of a pick me :/) being more of a wild resilient dragon with an independent feel to her. While at the hidden world her family would rush up to her, both curious and scared at what had happened to her. She would try to think but all she would remember is a flashback of her out hunting, then everything turned black, and then she was flying home with this handsome Night fury, she didn’t know him but somehow knew his name and personality (she can’t remember anything from the venom) she would struggle to think until she would get sudden shots of pain in her skull. Flashbacks of the hideous Deathgrippers and Grimmel’s fort, Grimmel signalling for his partly-blind dragon to inject her. And then giving her commands. (Dark i know 😳) Additionally at the end where Hiccup must let go of the Light fury in order to save Toothless, while he is falling he would narrowly dodge a silver spine which would break off his prosthetic leg.. making Grimmel fall. He would look up in surprise and see 3 scorpion-like tails grab him. Heather and Dagger on Windsheer and Sluether would catch him. Dagger would look down and simply say something like: “Brother! Long time no see!” When they get back on the sea cliff the Light fury would roar and all the dragons would slowly lose the mind control/venom, picking up their riders and returning.
This movie was the only time I've ever actually been pissed off at a movie. I remember walking out of the theater completely crushed, because this third installment completely undermines everything the franchise was supposed to be about, and ends in a way that makes it unfixable.
I agree with almost everything you said, especially the thing about the score loosing a nomination. It's a crime against humanity. All of the movies featured a legendary score.
Personally, and my ADHD brain won't stop thinking about this, I thought that the 3rd movie should of ended with Toothless being with his own kind. Maybe finding his parents. And a reason why Hiccup lets him go is because he can see his dad somewhat in Toothless's dad and realizes Toothless never got to be with his own kind or spend time with his family so lets him go and because he's alpha, all the other dragons go with him so theres a proper drive for them all to leave. And at the end of the film they can show he found a mate and have lil babies. Another outcome would be he finds an albino nightfury, since the reason she was a lightfury in the first place was so it wouldnt confuse the audience so just make her albino XD, and the plot focuses mostly on these two, gives her more screen time and then around the end theres promise of more nightfuries out there somehow so Hiccup lets him go to go find them with the other dragons going with him or something along those lines. Leaving 'more nightfuries' Out of the equation when it was said so much in the second movie, "He might very well be the last of his kind", "Who knows, one day we might just find another nightfury. Wouldn't that be something?", it just felt like it was building up to be there at the end which is a main reason why I left the cinemas feeling...empty? Felt like I was promised something that never truely came and it was more of a bootleg adaptation XD The lightfury's design is great but honestly, they could of taken that design, made her the same shade as Toothless and called her a female version of a nightfury in my opinion. I could ramble all day about this movie, I stg XD
I think it's fucking dumb that they decide the best solution to this is inconveniencing the dragons because of a handful of dragon hunters that to be honest never seem to quite live up to the threat level they are made out to be. None of the dragons die on screen except the villain of the first movie... why should I even believe Toothless is the last of his kind given this. The light fury, this downgrade from Vigo and this decision to "hide" the dragons in an environment they are not adapted for is just a mixture of ideas that probably seem wholesome on the surface, before you realise it's this whole Peta encouraged trend of "release your pets back into the wild, because that'll totally work out for every one of them including those not adapted to the vastly different outside world". Don't get me wrong, the art and animation for the last movie is gorgeous but like, if they wanted "realistic", instead of breaking toothless and Hiccup apart they could have always had Hiccup and Astrid drift apart because teen couples rarely last well into adulthood and remain as forever couples. They could have had Toothless or Hiccup die or some other dragon die to show us there are stakes in this - although I would have hated that just as much, but still - or done any number of heart-wrenching but "realistic" moments. Also this idea of both parties getting a girlfriend for life as if that truly happens in every scenario for all best buds... is just kind of unlikely? What are the chances that both friends will find a forever soulmate? From what I can tell with the people I've met and all the relationships I've known... not that many have such ideal relationships. Also, only Toothless and Hiccup meet again. And Astrid apparently... but not the others? Like... I just don't believe that no one else had a bond with their dragons that would lead them back to each other because like, over the course of this franchise - when you include the series - and acknowledge Valka exists a lot of dragon riders bond with their dragons closely... moreover, this doesn't explain what happened to all those other non-Berkian people who also cared for, defended, trained, etc. dragons. I will say "not as sophisticated" is such a bullshit view to have on animated movies. Like live-action is 90% CGI anyway these days, and it mostly boils down to being edgy and having unrealstic action sequences that never really feel exciting when you rewatch them. Things like Avengers, Ironman and Thor 2 have rewatchable qualities - the first two have humour and the first has a great villain and the second one I love for the family stuff and the occasional humour... even if the villain is dumb as heck and even I'll admit it's on the whole not a great movie - but I honestly don't think I'd rewatch the third Thor movie, or more than the intro sequence to the Black Widow movie (that one was amazing, but the rest of the movie... not that great)... However, just because live-action can be great doesn't mean it can't be bad, or that it's more sophisticated than animation that often goes above and beyond to deliver some of the best comedic and emotional moments in film in general... If you wanted to make me agree that they should have just shut off their dragons from the world into some kind of glorified naturally made cage, you would have to build up one hell of an anti-dragon army that spands the entire globe that would be cornering these animals from every side to justify such a ludicrous idea. But there isn't one. In fact, over the course of the series we learn that Berk and Hiccup are not the only major dragon defending forces. And after spending so much time not following the books all that loyally they suddenly go for a book loyal ending... bull shit.
I never thought of the "Hiccup and Astrid wouldn't get married and stay together forever because teen couples rarely do" as a response to "BuT DiTcHing yOuR fRiEnDs FoR a FeMaLE aNd sEgReGaTinG humAnS fRoM aNimAlS iS tHe ReALiStIc aNd GriTTy eNdIng" but I'm laughing so hard, that's so true! I'm so sick of the "bUt tHatS jUsT rEaL lIfe" excuse for a film to end in a horribly unsatisfying way.
I think its mostly the ending. It is still a great ending, but was unexpected and feels at least a little contradictory. I still love the movie, but I do agree that one of the reasons said for the dragon’s release isn’t fully thought-out: yes people will use dragons as weapons & abuse them, but that’s the same for literally every animal & invention made and that will ever be made. However, the other reason is reasonable: dragons were starting to over-populate Berk & they needed to live somewhere with bigger space that humans could give them.
But even then- The dragons who had not been bonded to anyone, just rescued and healed could've gone to the hidden world, and the dragons which WERE very bonded to their FRIENDS, (because that's what they were: Friends, they were not pets, they were not any "posession" for the vikings, they were their friends) could have stayed on berk to protect the vikings and well, to not be torn away from the friends that they made.
>they needed to live somewhere with bigger space than people could give them except that... the Hidden World, as huge as it is, is a finite underground space? when the majority of dragons have clearly evolved to be rulers of the skies, the hidden world may be a good sanctuary but I highly doubt it would have the space or resources to accommodate all of dragonkind (remember there are cannibalistic dragons such as the deathgrippers, as well as dragons that are extremely evolved to be in flight, like timberjacks) Hiccup, in sending the dragons away to the Hidden World, likely sentenced many species to extinction by the time of the nine realms.
For me, it's just a matter of the first two movies showing Hiccup and Toothless fighting for the sake of dragons' freedom and safety.... And then the third movie basically goes "Actually this is too hard and bad people exist, nvm go away forever Toothless" Like... W H A T?
@@jadecoolness101 Yeah I hate that with a burning passion. They should have either made all the movies like this- giving up which y'know.. wouldn't be a smart idea Or not ruin the last film with giving up the message of the franchise
I think the first reason was fair. Dragons were continuously massacred and used for attempted world-domination. And when you combine that with the fact that this would make Berk a constant target non-stop, it's a good reason.
Ok, you seem to completely skim.the reason WHY people.hated this film so much was BECAUSE previously the series had the theme that humans and dragons could co exist and even benefit.from it but this film did a whole 180 and was.like nope. Dragon's and humans can't coexist so dragons need to run and hide until humans can accept them, and that final scene showed the flaws of that idea. U no how the film shd have ended? Not only defeat all the bigots, show that dragons were here to stay but cut to the modern day and show how dragons have become an integral part of life!
After watching the series, seeing fantastic characters like Ruff and Tuff and Snotlout get basically thrown outrigh ignored as actual humans in the full-length films is infuriating
The character development from the previous installments is none existent. The characters also become dumbed down- the worst being toothless who just isn't the same as he was before
They were treated like that in the previous films. And even though the shows are canon, it's not like the people making them had some sway over the movies.
"Forgettable"... You're right. I watched HTTYD3 years ago and I barely remembered what happened mostly in the movie aside from Toothless and the Light Fury... not by much. I had to rewatch it again with the DVD I bought as soon as it was out (apparently I never opened until this year XD) and watching it again... yeah, it wasn't that good. I think I liked it initially when I first saw it, but after watching Race to the Edge... this movie butchered the characters in a lot of ways. And how they handled why the Dragons left. I know the books had the dragons leaving in the end, but the book had a different narrative with the way it took the story with the dragons by kept as pets but not treated fairly which caused them to be angry with the humans and rebel against them leading to a war. Which went one for a few books I hear where it eventually had the Dragons leave back to the sea (the hidden world) with only a few Dragons visiting humans that treated them fairly and they're best friend. Like Hiccup and Toothless and Toothless visited Hiccup a lot, but over the years the visits became more distant. The movie universe? Had a different narrative going on. With the first movie having the Vikings and Dragons being enemies at first and then Hiccup forming a forbidden friendship with Toothless. The narrative is "going against Nature" in a sense as another UA-camr pointed out which even the second movie did too. Third one... no. There's no theme. No tone. I don't understand what the story here is about and they try to conclude the series with the same ending as the book in a way... but doesn't work. I believe the Author of the books praised the first movie and said it had the spirit of the books and she loved it. The movie should've gone a different route with how to end the series and I hear that there was Corporation meddling with the production too, which is why it had some issues. I thought 3 was good enough, but I wish the Hidden World had Night Furies hidden there as it makes no sense for a single person to wipe out an entire species of dragons on his own. He ain't Frieza! I love the first two movies and the TV series. I really think the 3rd one should be rewritten. Such a sad wasted potential of story telling there.
I feel Hidden World just felt like...just another episode of the series. The lack of an antagonistic kaiju dragon probably also contributed to the less "epic" feel of the climax. Since TJ Miller got kicked from production anyway, they could have killed off Tuffnut just to at least make the villain more dangerous, the consequences more serious, and the stakes more dire.
The issue I had with this movie is that it just feels like it's everywhere and nothing is allowed to breathe. The Berkians are forced to flee their home! Where were they set-- oh they found a place already. Here's the Light Fury! How will Toothless court-- oh he did a goofy dance for way too long and she's already attracted to him. Let's go to the Hidden World and-- now we're leaving, never coming back, okay. Oooh, did Grimmel actually control the Light Fury and is using her to lure Toothless into a no he just kinda captured her and now there's a fight. Who's Grimmel anyway? Hasn't gotten a lot of screen time and we're close to the end and oh he's dead okay guess that's that. And now without any further buildup the dragons are all leaving to the Hidden World, sure. It's frustrating, too, because moment to moment it's an enjoyable film (mostly-- I found the mating dance scene excruciating) but holistically it just feels like a sequence of 'and then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened'. Hard to really care about any of what's going on when it feels like even the movie doesn't.
I think... That it's sad that the HTTYD series ended with the Race to the Edge series and there never was a third movie or any series after of any kind. And anyone who says otherwise is just in denial.
Oh yes, so true. Oh well, looks like we’ll forever just have to speculate about things like other nightfuries forever because that’s definitely what they would’ve done if the third movie had ever been made. Tragic that so many people are in denial. There is no third HTTYD movie in Ba Sing Se
I always viewed the trilogy as Hiccup sacrificing for his believes. The first film was about changing the villages' mind about dragons, he almost gets kicked out of the village and he loses a limb. In the second film, he wants to end the conflict peacefully by trying to reason with the villain, for that, his best friend kills his father just as he was reunited with this mother. In the third films he finally loses what he's been fighting for the whole time, the dragons.
When I think of what's wrong with THW, this one scene with Astrid can basically sum up a lot of stuff. The one in which she tells HICCUP of all people "look at you! Embracing change!" As if the first two movies aren't all about Hiccup changing things and as if Hiccup's changes in the third film aren't met with constant backlash. Like what do you meeeaaaan he's finally embracing change??? He's trying to change several things in just this movie alone! Her statement makes no sense!
Astrid in general was a moron in this movie Like that one other scene where she says "What did you expect? You gave him his freedom!", refering to Toothless to Hiccup after she CLEARLY stood next to him as he made the new tailfin for him - like, if she KNEW he wouldnt come back, WHY on earth didnt she tell Hiccup right then and there???
@@anfani6839 And also (can't remember if this was shown in the video or not) when Astrid invites Hiccup on a trip to the Hidden World to find Toothless and when the trip goes wrong blames HIM for DECIDING to go to the Hidden World like she wasn't the one to jump up on Stormly and suggest it.
Okay since we're on the subject why the h*@$ did Toothless just totally dump hiccup for the light fury and Hiccup was totally okay with it? I mean I know he wasn't and I know he was doing it out of love for his friend and maybe he knew that this day would one day come or whatever but this just seems like it was a trend. Like look at Frozen 2 and Elsa and Anna part ways. Look at Wreck-It Ralph to the previous year and vanellope and Ralph part ways. Even did that head touching thing that was popular in 2018 and 2019. Like they do that in Abominable, they do it in Moana and they did it in how to train your dragon 3. I don't believe that they really had the best intentions with the third movie I think they were just trying to get it done even though the voice actors and people animating it tried their very best with such a slip shot story. You can almost say that toothless loves the light furymore than hiccup!!!! Just infatuated? Toothless wants to go visit hiccup at some point during their separation and the light fury just rolls her eyes at his desires AND TOOTHLESS JUST AGREES LIKE A DOORMAT. She put him under a spell of some kind and apparently Hiccup and toothless's relationship wasn't strong enough to survive it. I'm sorry but what a stupid plot the real toothless would never just dump hiccup for some pretty face and if he did it's just proves that his friendship was shallow. Okay rant over. 😃
The way Elsa and Anna, Ralf and Vanelope, and other characters part ways is different. For starters because it's less permanent. Elsa keeps visiting Anna, same kinda goes for Ralf and Vanelope. And it feels natural, they grew apart during the movie. Toothless just left in a "OK bye imma go be with ma girlfriend, screw my best friend" kinda way. Toothless and hiccup didn't grow apart, hiccup decided that the dragons would be safer in the hidden world and Toothless was just horny. That's not growing apart. Anna discovered that she doesn't need Elsa to be strong and happy. Elsa discovered that she didn't fit in the kingdom. Toothless just kinda met someone and left everything for her in a timespan of 1 or 2 days. And hiccup was kinda miserable without his best friend. Anna learns that her power doesn't come from Elsa. Hiccup never really learns that his power does not come form toothless. That was my rant haha.
I freaking HATE this trend of sequels saying "Remember that family/friend group we made in previous movie? They gotta seperate now because reasons, now be sad." I'm so glad someone else recognized the pattern. I get that in real life people grow apart or move on - but two things: One, I'm here to ESCAPE real life and watch people ride dragons and shoot fire at stuff, and Two, NONE of these sequels actually show a natural, mutual "growing apart" that makes sense and is beneficial to both parties' growth, or is even necessary at all. They're shoved-in obligatory "sad" plots that retcon canon, ruin character arcs, and basically throw out the entire previous films (Ralph Wrecks the Internet being the worst offender imo; but that's another story for another time). I get people grow apart and sometimes life is hard. "Scawy hoomans exist so dragons have to segregate and hide in a cave forever" is NOT that.
How to fix How to train your dragon 3 bitch: 1 get rid of all human enemies. 2 toothless girlfriend should have been a female night fury. 3 the enemy of the film should have been the separation of hiccup and toothless, where hiccup had to accept that Toothless would be better off with the female night fury instead of him. 4 add all the deleted scenes back in!
This is easily my favorite of the trilogy, and my favorite Dreamworks film. I love the first two, but this took it to another level. Many of the problems people have I just don't understand. This movie was not forgettable. And the villain was a little different and also better too. While Drago wanted to control dragons, Grimmel wanted to kill all of them. He viewed them as beasts that aren't worthy of life. And him being "The Nightfury Killer" added some extra menace.
A big issue i see is, when the dragons kinda leave the world, the hunters stay. And they are gonna try find them, and New Berk is first on the list. It make no sense. Even if the dragon hunters dont find the hidden world. But knowing humans and vikings, one person in New berk could just spill it, and thats it, the hidden world is discovered by hunters, kinda makes them more undefended in a big hole then in the above. just my opinion but THW ending makes no sense.
I just realized that the reason hiccup visited toothless was to probably make sure toothless wasn't somehow grounded again because of a malfunction. As his own excuse to visit him, of course.
My thought was that he wanted to show his kids that dragons exist and at they're not scary- given how they were afraid of them in Homecoming. But the idea of him wanting to check up on Toothless' tail is also good!
To be honest I think that no one actually did like httyd 3 and during it release time maybe it was just the hype that kept the good scores amd ratings going for it
@@GoodMan-rf8mz I like it in some sorts of way I mean definitely without it’s flaws but yeah without the hype I do believe this movie would not get such a high score same goes for Toy Story 4 that movie was - Bull Shit
I remember seeing the "big goodbye scene" not feeling anything, which is so sad when you think about it, given by how great the first movie handeled their relationship. But this one was so unsatifisfying and frustrating to watch that it simply made me go "Does that mean the movie is over now? Finally. I want to leave"
honestly the main problem with it is the characters, the entire main cast is ooc the new characters are either annoying af or reboots of precious characters. they didn't keep the messaging of. thefirst films and ended up making a kids film which this franchise was never meant to be. i could go into more detail but that's the general problem with it. the plot is also a remake of a short that was made a. short. no wonder it feels wrong they have already solved this problem but decided to reuse it.
Dragons 2 was robbed. "That was HIS mistake!". Also, I think I can safely say that the whole letting go of dragons plot point was needlessly dumb. It doesn't match with the books seeing as those are a lot more bleak with freeing the dragons as a last resort. Here, they created this beautiful unity better dragons and vikings and when someone makes a few points about how they must move on because "mating", it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It kinda feels like the whole "go back to where you came from" sentiment xenophobic ass holes be making in the 30's and repeated in certain stories where when the character from a certain plcae goes back to their roots and becomes better. There is no compromise or "bittersweet goodbye". It's them accepting the status quo that they could've never done anything impactful. Imagine if Ginger from Chicken Run simply accepted that she will one day be someone's dinner. Or, Po accepting that he isn't The Dragon Warrior. Or, Shrek accepting thay he is nothing more than a mean ogre meant to be feared, hated, and alone. This is the most non DreamWorks thing DreamWorks have ever done. You let things go if it is causing more harm than good. It would've been amazing to let the books have that message and let the films have the message of how unity is worth fighting for no matter what people say or do. At this point, I am fine with there jus being a first a second film like Rio.
Was a good movie but you hit the nail on the head calling the villain generic. As a fan of the series, he was just a pale imitation of Vigo & Hiccup has had enough experience with him to know how to deal with the deceptive type. I also don't like forced reactions to a threat. Expecting me to believe that the stubborn ass berkians would just up and leave their ancestral home over a house fire is pretty fucking stupid.
It felt like toy Story 4: An unnecessary continuation that assasinates characters having main protagonists separate when the entire moral of the previous is sticking together, neither being atrocious, plenty of things to love, but I can definitely understand the hate. In my opinion toy Story 4 did it better and deserved to beat the hidden world.
The 2nd one is not bad. But it had too much plotlines, something the 3rd movie also had. And because there was so much plot, there isn't a lot of character development.
I feel the second one is a good sequel tho my main issue with it is that there are some new wasted characters like the villain or Hiccup's mother, the pacing also any mentioned from the shows but I still loved the first movie more
It seems oddly common to end a franchise with a splitting of the characters (both toy story 3 and 4 did this, each pretending it was the end), probably in an attempt to make the audience feel sad but fulfilled in saying goodbye to the characters they've been watching. The problem is, that doesn't always work. I hated this movie. With a passion. It is beautiful to look at, but I never cared about a single thing I saw on screen. And I think that came from my sensing the oncoming ending. They took a story where Hiccup became great by doing the thing only a madman would do and becoming friends with his enemy-- an enemy he could have destroyed. He chose peace. He chose to give up everything he wanted so he could humanize the creatures his entire life had been focussed around killing. And in the second movie, he continues to do just that-- fight for the dragons who should have been his enemy. Even with Drago holding a knife to his throat (that knife being Toothless himself) Hiccup refused to dehumanize the dragons again, or let anyone else do so. He was powerful, legendary even, because he stood tall in front of the entire world and said: You're all wrong. Watch me prove it." But then, the world is just too scary now. Sure, the dragons and humans fought for years on Berk and we could fix that, and suuuure we ALREADY fought a dragon hunting warlord who perceives the dragons as a thing to be conquered and used, and we could fix that, and SUUUUUUURE Toothless has already proven himself the coolest and most powerful dragon ever.... but this time, there's a GIRL. And Toothless is horny, I guess, so that's the end of it. I would have liked a movie about rescuing the toothpaste fury from abusive evil human-- that could have been cool. If villain (I literally do not remember his name and couldn't remember while watching the movie either) had been using the white fury to try and lure Toothless to him, her being trained but abused in a sort of toxic version of Toothless and Hiccup's relationship, I would have been invested and interested. But no. She's just there, for some reason, and I guess she's hot, so all the bonds we've forged in the last two movies are moot! And if Hiccup's bond with Toothless doesn't matter anymore, I guess there's no reason to keep standing tall. Instead, he takes the coward's way out, deciding that defending the dragons like he's been doing for years is just Too Hard, and sends them all away until "humans are ready for them". Newsflash: There will always be villains in the world. There is no hope in waiting "until we're ready". There is only an eternal condemnation of waiting. Wondering if I'm good enough, can I earn the magic back into the world? And being answered that no, Hitler exists, so I can't have nice things. I know this is a long rant-- and late, since the video came out months ago... but I can't not say it. This movie was a disaster from its conception as far as I'm concerned. But I'm glad some people had a nice day at the theater when they watched it:)
Ok, I disagree with the 3rd. Toy story 3 made sense. It still follows the original theme "A toy's job is to make a kid happy", and that exactly what they did. Andy isn't a child anymore and he isn't interested in playing with toys, so he gave them to another child instead, who will play with them. I absolutely agree with the 4th tho. Woody left his best friends and his duty for... A girlfriend. Doesn't make sense at all.
@@VivianaSilverback I don't mean to say that the 3rd Toy Story was bad, simply that it fits into the trope of "this is the end of the franchise so let's have a character separation/goodbye scene at the end". It's not a favored trope for me, but it can be done well. Toy Story 4 and HTTYD 3 both use it very very poorly.
The first one is one of my all time favorite movies ever. Tried watching the third one on a flight and just couldnt bare it. Call me a nasty lil queer, but it felt like i was spoon-fed heteronormativity the entire time. It bothered me so much and the plot was so boring that i ended up quitting the movie a little after the halfway mark. I literally had nothing better to do and i decided to stop watching anyway. I thought this film was about the friendship between toothless and hiccup, yet the third movie was mostly spent around their girlfriends. When i later read about the ending, can't say i was too surprised.
Personally I loved this movie, and most of my praise goes to the story and pacing. From the moment Toothless and Light Fury met, we only visibly see a week pass. The reason I find this as a strong pacing is because it felt so sudden. And it was, and so is reality. So much can happen in a week, hell, so much can happen in a day. I mean if Toothless had been able to fly after the Light Fury after their first meeting, it would have been much shorter of a movie. Dean has said this third movie was mostly about Toothless' story, and of course wrapping up Hiccup accepting he can be a good chief without Toothless, allowing them both to part ways and live their best lives at peace with the departure. So yeah, I think it's a little more realistic thus less fantastical, and of course no one wanted to see the dragons leave even though Dean wanted the movie to end with the book's theme of "there were dragons when I was a boy", and he does just that at the end. So do I understand why people were let down? Sure, no giant dragon to fight. Grimmel is kinda basic but at the same time he's more of a representation of the dark humans, trophy hunters for example, not so much an actual person, which I thought was really interesting. I really need to get to making my review for this movie and it's characters, good grief. lol Far too much to say in a comment. I do appreciate others who accept the good and bad, though. Loved hearing your non-hostile opinions, that's rare. lol
Ironically, what this third film has the same main issue in common with Toy Story 4. Building up a theme of togetherness and sticking with your people no matter what, then the last movie comes in and says "Naw, it's better to go your separate ways" with no warning and completely undermining the message hammered home so well in the previous films. There's challenging and looking at your theme from a different angle and then there's throwing it to the wayside for absolutely no reason when no one was complaining about it and actually liked the theme.
@@morisatsuki3659 That was a common issue for a few movies around that time. Wreck-it Ralph 2 ends with Ralph and Vanellope going their separate ways; Frozen 2, Elsa is by herself living up north. I'm sure there was another one, can't think of it now though.
one little mistake im pretty sure you made, Grimmel was not trying to control the dragons and use their power, he was trying to kill all of them, he wanted to actively rid the world of all Dragons
Ever think about how in this universe, dragons have been fighting humans for as long as they have existed, then Hiccup befriends one and the humans learn to co exist and love the dragons, and then send all of them away in the span of like 6 years?
I have read most of these comments and most people seem to be agreeing or roughly agree with what’s wrong with this movie. However everyone definitely seems to have A problem with this movie. You never know, if it keeps shifting towards people not liking/hating/having a problem with this movie, Dreamworks might recognise there is money to be made, and make a 4th to remake the 3rd.
I honestly hated the 3rd one wasn't dark and gorey as I expected the 3rd one being darker than the 2nd one. Not gonna lie if I was a director of the movie, a half or a third of main cast would die. And Light Fury? That thing shouldn't be there, plus it literally copied fanfiction
The problem is not the contradiction of previous themes, that can be done. What's wrong is that it isn't believable, or, the material structure of the script does not make us believe that those characters would choose immediate and long lasting (if not perpetual) separation on that time and circumstances.
Unlike movie 1 and 2, the villain/antagonist- Grimmel is just kinda there. To me he feels like a)reason to introduce light fury b)minor inconvenience, because movie has to have antagonist The movie is beautiful in it's own way. In more mature way. But if that doesn't make it the best one for you, nothing else will. There is no big boss fight, or at least it doesn't feel as big and as important it did in movies 1 and 2. There aren't any very cool, epic, mindblowing scenes, like let's say see you tomorrow, test drive, romantic flight for 1, and flying with mother and toothless found for 2. In this regard, it's a "boring" movie. You understand where it's good, and it really is, but if that fully doesn't do it for you, it just doesn't feel as good as others
I don't like the character assassination in this movie. Seriously what happened to the characters from the previous installments? They're like completely different people. I don't view anything from the third movie or that nine realms disaster as canon
@@mr.ghiblidude i don't but i Liked Rescue RIders and besides it's you HTTYD 1 purists or HTTYD 2 Fan boys that divided this Fandom, which is why I Left the fandom altogether 'cause you people claiming that people are wrong for Defending HTTYD 3
To solve the "That's it?"Problem They should've made something like Race to the Edge but as a prequel to HTTYD3 OR Since they already made Riders and Defenders of Berk as sequels to the first movie and prequels to RTTE They could've made sequels to HTTYD2 and then a Prequel to HTTYD3
I didn't like the separation, I feel like it would have been better if they all went to the hidden world or something like that. I love the franchise but the separation is just not it a least for me. Like if u agree
When I watched this in the theatre for the first time I bawled my eyes out so hard I got the stinkeye from the old lady beside me XD. I love Grimmel, though. He's a cunning, chilling villain compared to that raving, ranting, big baby Drago Bludvist, but I agree with your point; perhaps if he had been the 2nd movie's villain, I would've loved both movies more. I also think this movie suffers a lot from stupid sideplot overload. What's the point with Snoulout hitting on Hiccup's mom? And don't even get me started on Ruffnut; she's so unbelievably, inhumanly stupid for a woman of that age and experience, it annoys me to no end. These pointless sideplots eat up precious time for no reason and drags out the runtime. One thing I've always hated about this series (the movies) is it never develops the characters of Fishlegs, Snotlout and the Twins, and use them as fuel for cheap laughs (but I'm annoyed by them). I wouldn't mind as much if they'd just remain static supporting characters that are actually funny, like Gobber, with no sideplot at all, like in the first movie.
@@Aranoura So I've heard, but I haven't watched RTTE to that point yet. Also, the movies weren't made with people having to watch the Netflix series in mind and are standalone, so I'm judging based on that standard. Regardless, I'd take watered-down Viggo Grimborn over Drago any day. The latter is just too atrocious.
@@clutchthecinnamonsergal8493 Yes, I know. But since the movies are standalone (they didn't put Heather, Dagur or any other characters in), that's beside the point, isn't it? Even if you consider the development in the series, it's still a flaw since all of them would seem to have regressed to their starting point anyway with how they are portrayed in the second and third movies. How would you explain Fishlegs obsessing over honest-to-gods *Ruffnut* when he had a much more mature and less creepy relationship with Heather?
@@jeidafei1165 please watch rtte. It's the best thing DreamWorks has made since httyd1. And yes the animation could be better, but the story and the characters are great. And what do u mean with Drago (what a original name....) is atrocious? Because there are a lot of different ways to interpret that.
@@AranouraI've started watching RTTE, but I kinda stopped after a while. I think I took Trader Johann's betrayal hard XD. I might go back to it some time soon. I mean atrocious quality as a villain. I think Drago is a cliched and unintelligent villain. A guy who got his arm bitten off by a dragon so he's got a vendetta for all dragons? It's just been done hundreds of times before. And his goal? World domination. Of course. With dragons. Doesn't that contradict his hatred for dragons? Also, how the heck did he manage to tame the Bewilderbeast in the first place? (I think Nostalgia Critic said it best in his spoof video XD) The movie never shows us a believable story behind that. The climactic battle is also pretty lame. I was hoping for something smart, something unexpected but foreshadowed (like in the first movie). Instead it's just two dinosaurs bashing heads together, then Toothless shooting plasma bombs on Dark Bewilderbeest until he drops. It's a war of attrition. The hero is only as good as the villain, after all. I just wished they put more thought into making Drago a formidable villain.
The biggest problem is they started the movie with the quote "there were dragons when i was a boy" they started the movie with an endgame ans shoehorned the plot in as to why the dragons had to leave. It goes against the themes of the first two films of humans and dragons working together to overcome that kind of challenges. I think they could have ended it better. And kept to the themes of the first two films even if they wanted to end it bu giving a good epilogue. There were also issues with Hiccup and the other dragon Riders seeming to not regressed and become less mature than they were in the second film. Again forcing the plot to reach a specific endgame, the Dragons leaving.
I know I'm late by two years but I had to put my two-cents in. I think that the biggest downfall of this movie is the story. If the big bad guy hadn't existed or had existed in any other form, toothless and hiccup would have no need to isolate to the hidden world. The entire point of this franchise was learning to communicate and coexist with nature and people you may not necessarily get along with. It's a very profound message for a childrens' franchise to tackle but it flaked out in the final movie. I think a far better plot would have been the discovery of the very isolated Hidden World and the subsequent attempts of Hiccup and Toothless to coax the dragons there out of hiding, showing them that the world is mostly safe now. A side conflict could be Astrid and the rest of the gang dealing with the issues of a growing population of people and dragons, drawing attention from less than friendly visitors, as well as the challenges of leadership. Toothless could even have uncovered a small population of nightfuries scraping by in the Hidden World. He learns how to be a nightfury while astrid and hiccup learn to be chiefs. Also toothless's design in the first film was the best he's ever had.
The Hidden World was an okay movie. If it wasn't for the last about 10 minutes it would not have been good. It was an okay ending to a great franchise. 1 was very good, 2 was really great, & 3 was okay or not bad. It didn't fully stick the landing, but overall the franchisee itself is very good or extremely solid.
Fun fact: the producer of the movie hates series that just keep going and he wanted to end the franchise one way or the other. And this was probably the most successful way to permanently end the film franchise.
Well, until it gets rebooted fifteen years later. Or they do whatever in the world The Nine Realms tried to do. It's not really a film, just wanted to bring it up. I respect the decision to try to end it though, nothing needs to be a 900+ episode franchise with minimal progression.
@@Lunar_willoww there's nothing wrong with ending a franchise or just a series, because a lot of series and franchises overstay their welcome (especially science fiction and fantasy series have this problem). But just as the stretching of some other series or franchises becomes forced. This ending of a film series feels forced. And unresolved, because there are still so many questions that will now never be answered. The ending to both riders/defenders of berk and rtte was good, I would say perfect. It was a soft ending, but the plot of the series was solved questions regarding the series answered. It was spectacular and statisfying, especially the ending of rtte. The ending to httyd 3 is a hard ending, but many httyd3 questions aren't answered. Not all the plot solved. Which makes the ending even more disappointing.
They could have just... not even made a third movie? They could have just... made a different sequel? They could have given it more thought before getting it out there? Like they could have permanently ended this franchise a few years later with better writing...
Just to add to this. Dean DeBlois (the producer and director) was a Star Wars fan. Now he grew up with the OG 3 movies which are now 4,5 and 6. The younger generation (including myself) usually love the 3 prequels, (phantom menace, clone wars and revenge of the sith). However, (in my experience anyway), the people who grew up watching the OG 3 don’t really like the prequel 3 or the sequel 3. My guess is that he is included in this and he doesn’t like the movies other than the original 3 from the 80s and 90s. He probably sees the other 6 movies as “milking the series”, so that could be why he never intended to make many movies for Httyd.
I think it would have been better if the hidden world was full of other night furies and its revealed thats where they've been hiding the whole time. I still enjoyed this movie and liked the ending with how they took the risk to separate Toothless and Hiccup, but it definitely retcons the theme of the franchise.
I did not like the 3rd movie. Everything from the Light Fury being an obsessive gf to the fact that the only song I can remember from the movie is "Together from afar" compared to the last 2 movies where there were quite a few great songs. The 3rd movie also COMPLETELY goes against the messages of the last 2 movies. I really wouldn't have minded the ending but Toothless choosing a light fury that he had known for less than a few weeks over Hiccup whom he'd been in a friendship with for 6 years just doesn't make sense. We also didn't get an awesome flying sequence like in the first 2 movies so that was sad
I just have to agree with you. Like what? What we’re the directors thinking? Toothless and hiccup spent no time together at all. The ending make no sense, the movie made no sense. Hiccups head was filled with rocks and toothless turned into a simp overnight? Is this even a Httyd movie, was that even toothless?
My main issue is that finally, we had a movie that said that the power of friendship can be just as strong and deep as a romantic attraction. In the 3rd movie, Hiccup is essentially cock blocking toothless and that seems just so wrong. Also, light fury. It looks like a deviantart original character
Imagine if people were so worried about bird conservation that they gathered up every bird in the world and put them in a hole. That's what the ending of this movie is.
KFP 3 is considered a letdown by a few people as a lot of people don't like how the movie focuses a lot on comedy and how it interrupts a lot of the dramatic and emotional moments, it's also criticized for Po not being the same mature Po we saw in the 2nd film and the Furious Five not having a major role is a common criticism too. The villain Kai is considered a disappointment by many as a lot of people feel he's too comedic and not as menacing as Lord Shen was in the 2nd movie. Personally I love the 3rd Kung Fu Panda, I don't think it's as good as the 2nd one and I have a few problems but regardless I still think it's a very good movie.
What is said above summes it up. It is almost a parody of the first two and their portrait of Po. I swear, Po has to learn to be confident all over again... and it's a procession of dumb jokes diluting the already poor drama and emotial conflict.
@@leeobrien2004Yup I think the third movie doesn't deserve a lot of hate too, tbh I think they still portrayed Kai as a villain to test Po in a spiritual way tho my problems with his character they treated him like a joke most of the time making him unserious and clumsy when battling Po
For me, what this film (and 2) did wrong was completely drop all character development and world-building from the shows. You’d think they’d call for help from the Outcasts or Berserkers when being attacked by Drago or Grimmel, but nooooo, they cannot call for help from tribes known for their ferocity and combat strength because they didn’t exist in the movies. You’d think my boy Snotlout would be supportive of Hiccup’s leadership after learning what it takes to be a leader and growing to respect Hiccup over the course of all three shows, but noooooooooooo, we need to revert his character development so we can have the “Who died and made you chief?” gag. You’d think Ruffnut would be able to tell if she was being followed, considering she was able to correctly point out that there was a traitor amidst the riders purely based on an ambush as well as hold her own against Viggo himself, but nooooooo, we need Grimmel to find the hooligans, so we turn Ruffnut into a goddamn moron. See what my problem is? They completely forget what made these characters awesome in the shows.
This entire movie was essentially a elongated copy paste of the Pokémon episode "Bye-bye Butterfree" where Ashs Butterfree finds love and he has to let it go, but somehow worse. The homecoming/homegoing scenes are even the same: Ashs Butterfree and the other Butterfree migrate to there homeland, but gives one look back before he flies off Toothless and the rest of there dragons migrate to there homeland, but he gives one look back before he flies off The httyd series was never all that original (not saying its bad because of this tho) but come on. The younger me keeps the current me from hating this film, but they could've did so, so much better.
I'm a UA-camr who does a lot of HTTYD themed content, and I just recently did an interview with one of the story coordinators of the franchise, and he informed me that it was in fact the director's original intention to have Dragon Bludvist return as the villain of the third movie, where we would expand on his story more. But DreamWorks gave them notes saying that it would be too dramatic and bring up too many sad memories of Stoick's death, so they were forced to create Grimmel instead. This was really disheartening for the team, as they were setting up a lot of really cool and emotional stuff with Drago and Hiccup's dynamic, but in the end it was just about money for DreamWorks.
Grimmel is easily the worst part of the third movie for me, and I believe including Drago would've made the story more impactful by a landslide.
Didn’t help that they already did the “enemy that uses smarts over fighting like Hiccup “ with Viggo, so Grimmel just looks like an even worse villain in comparison
Personally I think Drago is a very lackluster villain in the 2nd movie but perhaps the dynamic he was gonna have with Hiccup in the original script of 3 could've been done in the 2nd film to make Drago a more compelling villain, but with Grimmel I would've definitely included a flashback of how he killed the Night Furies to flesh out his character a little more.
Then again I guess Drago and Grimmel just aren't as good as Lord Shen. Atleast Drago was mentioned by name by Grimmel in HTTYD 3 unlike Shen who got no mention in KFP 3.
OMG Hi Audrie! 👋 Love your videos!
Yea as I thought...Dreamworks just wanted to "recompensate" for 2'nd movie beeing too mature and emotional ...ehhh why can't comapnys just accept that they don't only have kid audience and they can atcualy allow theyre movies to be more deep :/
Same happend to Owl house they shortend the 3'rd season just cuz it had more teenager audiences :/
That certainly explains why the villain was such a painful retread of the second movie villain without adding anything substantial and arguably being worse in his role.
The biggest problem with the third film’s ending is that it shoehorns the ending of the original books into a story that has a completely different setup from the books. The main difference is that in the books, Hiccup is *not* the first person to train a dragon.
Berk and the other humans are already taming and domesticating them from the start, and have been doing so for centuries, so Hiccup and Toothless' friendship isn't a trailblazing idea that changes everything like it is in the movie. And unlike the films and the show, where each human bonds to their dragon as an equal, the dragons in the books are treated as pets and slaves (the only instruction Hiccup gets for training a dragon is literally yelling at it), so Berk is not and never becomes the technologically advanced dragon utopia that the movie version of Hiccup turns it into.
The film series has always shown Berk’s relationship with dragons to be not only a mutually beneficial relationship, but a genuinely loving one, and the natural endgoal is for Hiccup to spread his influence to other islands (like he did in the show) and convince the rest of the world to accept and coexist with dragons the same way Berk did. Whereas the books take a similar approach to Dreamworks’ _Spirit_ where the dragons are wild animals who have endured centuries of oppression and cruelty at the hands of man, and while Hiccup himself comes to respect and care for them, there’s a much stronger sense that the other Berkians (and humans in general) will never truly change their ways. In the last few books the dragons even start an uprising and try to kill all the humans, and Hiccup realising that the two species can never learn to coexist peacefully is the natural lesson from everything he’s been through.
The book's version of Hiccup changed the world by finally letting the dragons be free, whereas the film’s version of Hiccup changed the world by bringing dragons and humans together in the first place.
I have heard this argument countless times and have never seen this point explained better or more clearly than right here, so kudos!
In the books Toothless was also with Hiccup until he died and then he left. It felt more natural and plausible for the characters even with the same point of "bad people want to use the dragons"
This. Worded way better than I ever could and I absolutely agree with this.
The book's Hiccup had no choice. The movie's hiccup had several.
Also in the book is the fact that even if Hiccup, by some miracle, managed to create a new era of peace and prosperity between humans and dragons, it could be ruined in future generations, like Hiccup did first. After all, history tends to repeat itself.
Thankyou for your words. It took more than a few moments to write them but this is information I value
One of the biggest fails in this movie is that the message of the first 2 movies (and the series) stated that toothless and Hiccup can take on any harm as long as they fight to stay together but the 3rd movie forsed them to separate in a way that seemed like they just gave up on all of their progress.
Imo it's a really mature conclusion to the franchise. Yes Hiccup and Toothless built a strong bond over the course of the first two films, but every time it put dragons and humans in danger, and endangered their ways of life. It's been building up all this time, and this movie gives this franchise such an artistic and mature conclusion.
@@seematahir5970 I agree but considering how heavy that message was written in the other films, I personally find that this new message wasn't written well in the movie. It was really rushed because of the amount of things the writers tried to focus on.
@@seematahir5970 So not true. In both movies we were shown how humans and dragons working together benefits both of them. The red death as the oppressor of dragons is only defeated because humans and dragons stand up to her together. If it wasn’t for the friendship of Hiccup and Toothless, Drago would’ve eventually come to Berk and force everyone to submit to him and the dragons would’ve been all forced to fight in his army, even if Berk wasn’t on good terms with dragons. The message that both movies hammered into our heads is that because of their friendship Hiccup and Toothless can go beyond their limits and it benefits both dragons and humans. Bad things don’t happen because of their friendship but they get resolved because of it. This whole “segregation is better for both of them” stuff was only brought up in in THW and it completely goes against the message of the previous movies. The reason they have to separate: bad humans will always exist. Wow. How mature. It completely disregards that Toothless is forcing every dragon to go to thw even though it’s likely that not all of them want to go there. It’s throwing everything they’ve worked for for 6 years completely overboard and only because of the general statement that bad humans will always exist? After defeating the easiest villain they’ve ever faced? No one even died in that battle. No one even got injured. But I’m supposed to believe that this was the straw that broke the camel’s back? Hiccup didn’t give up after loosing his leg. He didn’t give up after a bad human forced his best friend to kill his own father. But some weird Russian guy that captured their dragons and then they freed them and then they defeated him was supposed to make Hiccup give up on all of o his ideals? Sorry but I’m not convinced.
@@Luna-ny9fq Well said!
@@Luna-ny9fq".. Weird russian guy.." 😂🤣
One very minor thing I didn't like was toothless,in the first 2 films he was cute,fierce and badass and different times,not too cute and not too badass,perfectly balanced as all things should be,but in the 3rd movie he was rarely badass,sometimes cute but mostly goofy,he was acting a bit too much like an excited dog,he lacked ferocity which I just love seeing
Same, but his modell was also too shiny. I think the one in the second movie was the best, but the first one was quite good too
Toothless' ability to flip on a dime from "The Unholy offspring of lightning and death itself" to "cute puppy" was part of what made his design so fantastically appealing and lovable in the first place
Completely agree, and he doesn't have a good model either in the third movie
He also goes from being hiccups best friend to a more like hiccups pet that runs away 😂
@@coffeecaim2527 yeah
In my opinion, they shouldn't have gone with the ending of the book series for this movie. The last two films have set up how the bond between humans and dragons is not only born from trust, but is mutually beneficial. The humans get the protection and service or the dragons, while the dragons get food and shelter... And that's not even considering the genuine connection they feel for one another.
So to end it with them separating? It felt wrong, and not very satisfying in my eyes.
I felt like the 3rd movie got rid of the theme of co existence in exchange for true love. It felt like hiccups friendship with toothless was purposefully ruined so there could never be another movie
Exactly, spot on
They messed up the moral!
I see a lot of hate on the Light fury's design. Most people wanted it to end with Toothless finding another Night fury, or even a couple of Night fury, not a glittery flying beluga. But the ending just contradicts the whole message of the first two stories, overcome and continue on. There was so much progress in the first two movies about Dragons living side by side with people, and they threw that out the window in the third film because Toothless' new partner made him chose, her or his best friend.
"A Night Fury, not a glittery flying beluga"
YES, THANK YOU.
I swear the hidden world should have been where all the remaining night furies would have been, I mean it feels like it would make more sense that this h i d d e n world held something much greater than basically another dragon nest
I'd hate liked her design more if they explained why it was like that/the evolutionary purpose
I already knew that this movie was broken the moment Toothless/Light Fury was presented. Why? Because it's obsessive lust being portrayed as true love. Ditching your family and friends for a girl you barely know is lust, not love.
I would like her more if one she wasn't or didn't felt like toothless only motivation to ditch hiccup and two her babies with toothless wasn't so hideous
I think the third HTTYD film is really thematically inconsistent with the previous installments. I'm not opposed to movies about a friendship ending with bittersweet separation - Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron is an excellent example of that done really well - but in that story, it made sense. Meanwhile in HTTYD 3, the separation is basically completely antithetical to the themes of the first movie, which is why it feels so wrong to me.
Exactly. Spirit worked because during the movie was constantly saw Spirit being unhappy when he was with humans, even when he had happier moments, at the end of the day he was still miserable and wanted to live in the wild again. Toothless on the other hand never showed any of those concerns - instead dude literally destroyed the mechnical fin that Hiccup made for him in the Nightfury special back then because he never wanted to fly without Hiccup - Third movie just comes along to destroy all of that
@@anfani6839 i don't think it destroy that much the theme of the others movies i mean toothless doing the best for his clan was actually always there the point that ruined it was the light fury arc if they wanted so badly to give toothless a main love interest at least made toothless found her on the hidden world or she be willing to live with toothless and toothless refusing for the sake of not wanting her to live without freedom
Very well said, this is exactly how i feel too
The problem is not the contradiction of previous themes, that can be done. What's wrong is that it isn't believable, or, the material structure of the script does not make us believe that those characters would chose immediate and long lasting (if not perpetual) separation on that time and circumstances.
@@joaomarcos2089 If you're going to reexamine or contradict previously established themes, that needs to be done with careful consideration and conscious intent. Otherwise, you get contradictory messaging that lacks cohesion, which is exactly what happened. And you're correct in that it also simply does not make sense from an in-universe perspective either, logistically, nor was it properly justified from the perspective of character motivations.
I genuinely cannot wrap my head around how people think this is a good sendoff to HTTYD's legacy, when the first movie was all about understanding each other and working together to build a better world, while this one was about separating BACK into your original in-groups, giving up, and just passively waiting for the world to fix itself because actively making the world a better place is, like, super hard.
Man I feel the exact same, I simply cannot understand why anyone would think this is an accurate and good movie/ending.
If the send off was anyway accurate then shouldn’t we send away our dogs and cats?
In the movie they sent them away because of “there will always be bad people”. Of course there will be like what? That dosent mean give up.
If we lived like that then we would have to send dogs and cats away because people abuse them to.
@@GoodMan-rf8mz that is actually a good point, maybe we don't deserve animals
I think one big issue with the ending (not mentioning the contradictory nature of it not following the themes of the other movies and series) is that the writers just wouldn't commit to it. They wanted to give us a heartbreaking ending, but then right after, we see the main characters temporarily reunite in the epilogue.
So then, what's the point of the overdramatic ending if they can just visit eachother from time to time? Why bother making a holiday special if they're supposed to be gone? Sure, the dragons are still hiding, even on New Berk, but there's no necessary reason for this special to exist at all. With the large focus being on Nightlights, I'm convinced it was mostly for marketing.
They sabotaged their own ending for the sake of selling merchandise.
Yup, definite toy-sales scene there! I hate how Toothless didn't recognised Hiccup straight away, too, so they could drag it out.
The problem about the ending was that the director had that ending envisioned from the books (which are entirely different from the movies) and then the crew probably had to work their way backwards and somehow make sense of it, but since the entire ending doesnt make sense in any world of those movies, it feels like its just unfitting to no end.
The holiday special was garbo, btw. I cant believe they'd just write Hiccups&Astrids Kids like they hate dragons again and want to hunt them down... Did Astrid and Hiccup not teach them well??? Smh
I know it's 4 months after the comment was posted but still. There is something like pre-screening testing with a chosen audience demographic; it's really likely the reunion was not even in the pre-release version of the movie and without it people disliked the movie; so Dreamworks had to attach a post-credit scene where the family unites. When you take in consideration the director's comment after this meeting Toothless "kinda forgot" about Hiccup entirely, I'm pretty sure that was the case why the reunion scene exists and winter special
And then Dean tried to hide it with “Oh but that was the last time Toothless saw them OH and Toothless forgot about Hiccup” 😂 bs!
@@lotsofspots It was, like, a decade later at least. Toothless was a now long-wild animal in wary, protecting-his-family-from-potential-hunters mode. It would realistically take a minute to recognize an old friend after so long, face covered with hair and traveling by boat alongside strangers, especially when you're initially more concerned about whether they're here to kill you.
You wanna rag on them dragging it out, rag on the holiday special. Homecoming was a far worse cash grab that doesn't make sense in timeline or character, even more so than 3 by a long shot, to the point where I don't get how it could be canon.
To this day, Hidden World is the only movie I’ve ever watched that managed to make me cry while simultaneously making me unreasonably angry.
It made me cry, then I started researching it because I was utterly dissatisfied with the ending of not only the movie but also supposedly the franchise.
Ending felt unearned. hiccup just decided for everyone that everyones dragons should leave and that was that, this was right after defeating the threat, an ending like this makes more sense when the threat cant be defeated its not like we had any major deaths or moments that made this particular dragon hunting issue less manageable than past ones.
The lightfury and toothless is also just done so very badly and the way toothless just goes iff immediately with a dragon he just met leaving hiccup also feels very out of character
(The light furys poor design as a “femme” themed dragon aside)
I think a movie set up where they are constantly fighting off threats from the get go and have to hunt down the hidden world as a safe place to stay only to find its not a safe place for humans so they have to leave the dragons would work better
Having toothless meet another nightfury there wud feel more impactful too and having toothless unwilling to leave hiccup would help show their bond is still strong
Also Them going to see the dragons at the end just feels..unfair, like oh hiccups family gets to sneak off to meet his dragons but everyone else obviously their bond with their dragon was unimportant
Theres just a lot that isnt fleshed out or feels earned in this one i heard another studio had a helping hand on it and tbh it really shows
Spot on.
If you don’t make them leave after Drago you don’t make them leave after grimmel
I think you're very spot on as a huge fan of the series i wanted to like this movie but I really couldn't yes the animation was great but there were some big problems with all of this like the light fury being a possessive girlfriend and I didn't mind her feminine look that much but it would have been better if they showed more light furies even maybe a male one that would have make it less awkward plus having her and exactly her the reason toothless decided to leave it's spitting on the friendship theme of the movie like friendship overcome mind control but not lust also the writing was kind of bad plus there's other places with dragons you're gonna tell me that all of them went to the hidden world or you left yourself completely unprotected if someone with dragons attack and potential other dragons stay slave cause you think you free them all or cannot free them without dragons
Yeah! Hiccup successfully pushed through Toothless accidentally killing Stoick and _this_ is what pushes him over the edge?
The first how to train your dragon movie has been a comfort and favorite movie for me pretty much ever since it came out. But I found the 3rd movie to be really disappointing and I really just dislike the 3rd movie.
One of my biggest issues with the movie is Grimmel’s entire concept. imo, it doesn’t make any sense that he is the Night Fury killer, or that anyone for that matter could eradicate the entire Night Fury species except for Toothless. For one, in the first movie, for the past 7 generations before Hiccup, no one had ever killed a Night Fury, much less SEEN a Night Fury. And it makes sense why they never had. Night Furies are incredibly intelligent, fast, and stealthy, and you the only time you could ever sort of see one was when it’s silhouette blocked out the stars in the sky. So how did this ONE guy kill all of them? And you’re gonna try to tell me that he somehow killed every Night Fury in the entire world? He also spewed a bunch of bullshit acting all smart and knowing everything about Night Furies, but really, a lot of it didn’t add up with all the other information that we’ve been given before the third movie. For example when he said that Night Furies can’t survive in the cold. One of the very first lines we ever heard in the first movie was “it snows 9 months of the year and hails the other 3”. Also, in gift of the Night Fury, we could see Toothless being just fine in the cold. Grimmel just felt like a half-assed excuse of a villain to explain why there weren’t any more Night Furies.
It would have made more sense to me to make the Light Fury the near extinct one. In the night time, she would stick out like a sore thumb and be EASILY able to be seen and shot down. Even in the day she would stick out. They’re glittery, and bright white. Ever seen the sun hit a white cat/dog/car? Brightest most blinding thing you ever seen in your life. Yeah they can disappear through the plasma blasts, but only for a couple seconds at a time. It just doesn’t make sense to me.
The whole trilogy we were hyped up and teased by Dreamworks about finding another *Night fury*. Instead we got one of the most disappointing dragon designs in the franchise (imo).
Last point I want to make even though I could go on forever, is that the Light Fury has such a terrible personality, and Toothless was so blinded by love that multiple times he almost let the Light Fury kill Hiccup and not even really try to stop her. Before in ANY of the 2 movies before, Toothless would’ve immediately shut that down and given a pretty nasty bite to show for it. None of that in the third movie. In fact, I couldn’t see ‘Unholy offspring of lightning and death itself’ in this movie at all. Just a slobbery, h*rny, mess of a giant puppy dog with principles as strong as a paper straw. Overall very disappointing movie and felt like a halfassed way to quickly end the franchise.
1# Toothless doesn’t find other Night Furies. This is something I was hoping to see eventually in the series. Toothless would reunite with others of his kind and learn from them how to be a true Night Fury. But, nah, Toothless has to be the last of his kind cause Grimmel slayed em’ all. Sure, whatever😓
2# Humans & dragons separate forever. This really bugged me cause the whole franchise was about how the two co-exist together. Why didn’t the humans move to the hidden world with the dragons where they could’ve remained safe forever? Or the why didn’t the dragons just stay on New Berk & continue fighting against people who think their way of life is wrong cause no matter what there would always be people who wouldn’t like them?
3# The Light Fury. I got nothing against the species, but rather the character. I found her boring. She’s possessive of Toothless & rebukes him whenever he mentions humans - basically telling him it’s me or Hiccup. Other than that, she had no divining characteristics.😪
4# Toothless. He’s too placid. The Light Fury attacks Hiccup several times & he does nothing to punish her for it whereas in the other movies or series he’s ready to rip apart anyone who so much as looks at his rider the wrong way. Plus, he’s ready to leave all he & Hiccup have worked for cause some random female comes along. Nope😒
So, yeah, this is why I believed the ending was a let down. What’cha think?
At least, with the second point, you can say that it happend in real life, so you won't feel so bad
@@lajoshorvath49 that'd dumb tho because it's just a movie in the end; dragons are just mythical creatures in fantasy and stories
Actually you made good points but i feel like the light fury existence would be much more justify if we saw another one of her species maybe even a male one that could be toothless's rival instead it's just show that she was specially made to be toothless's love interest instead of someone of even his own species
you summed it up perfectly, I was so conflicted on what was bugging me throughout the film but you just managed to express all my concerns in a simple youtube comment. Well done you ❤
What pussi does to a mofo
I think there are also mixed feelings about Light Fury. They presented her as really possessive girlfriend. The type that will take you away from your friends because ,,she has to be the only one in her bf life" literally. She pretty much showed up and ruined whole coexistance between humans and dragons. All dragons were fine living like that beside her. Yeah nobody wanted to force her to move from Hidden World but at the same time she forced Toothless to choose living with her in Hidden World or just don't be with her at all, no compromise about making visits or something. They talked about that people attacks won't stop with dragons. Not true. People will be attacking no matter if there are dragons or not. Berk just left themselves more exposed and that's all. While having dragons and story about Hiccup beating both Grimmel and Drago, word would spread and nobody would mess with Berk for long time. Movie wanted to send message ,,If you love them, let them go" but at the same time sent message ,,Friendships ends after marriage because your wife said so and you can't complain"
Exactly that's was my main issue the friendship strong enough to resist mind control was destroyed by love if they wanted to give toothless a girlfriend he could have found her inside the hidden world that way the reason to move there could be something less stupid like toothless starting to feel lonely or basically anything
@@billykaplan9915 Or she could have agree like other dragons that vikings from Berk are cool and she doesn't need to separate Toothless from Hiccup to be with him. She should have accept that from time to time Toothless would want to spend time with Hiccup too because they are best friends. Also Toothless has damaged tail and I believe Hiccup made new tail to last few years but then what? Hiccup probably also moved to visit Toothless to also check on his tail or switch it to new model for another few years. If she would be stubborn to keep Toothless away, one day Toothless would lose ability to fly again. Hiccup is only person who can fix his tail so full separation is out of the question. One day if Toothless would broke his fake part of tail she would either fly back to Hiccup anyway or in cruel way keep Toothless grounded till Hiccup would decide to visit.
@@MegiMoon exactly anyway the point still that they could have made it differently so it doesn't spit on the other 2 movies
My main annoyance with the Light Fury storyline is that Toothless has been established as more intelligent than most of the Vikings, and yet he's immediately reduced to a NatGeo comical bird-mating-dance the instant a vaguely compatible female shows up? Show us getting to know her, show us _why_ Toothless would fall in love with her. Otherwise he's just some dumb animal driven by pheromones and instinct.
@@lotsofspots omg someone understand true love
The real problem was that they gave us Grimmel AFTER giving us Vigo.
Exactly!
Everything the movie did, the show did better. Hiccup had amazing chemistry with vigo and the world building is much better.
Also, it always bothered me that in race to the edge they fly for days and in the movies everything is just a couple of hours away.
@@rodrigovillegas2263 because that was hiccups dreams it wasn’t real and dreams are crazy so yeah
@@rodrigovillegas2263 the really big difference is that one is the show and the other a movie. Do I think they could have made Grimmel more menacing? Yes. Viggo is my fave villain but he had so many episodes to be focused on while the movie is only 90mins. Not to mention that the movies focus more on the characters and their development and the shows give us much more plot to work with
@zoorockf1 I agree with your comment about his character as a whole, but if you compare the destruction made by Drago and by Grimmel ON SCREEN (because talking about it can be reduced to rumors, which have less of an impact on the viewers), Drago was more powerful of a villain than Grimmel was (again, on screen).
Agreed, Grimmel really seemed like a cheap ripoff of Viggo.
I've been saying this for year's! I was a fan since I was 4 year's old and seeing people praising the third for toothless getting a girlfriend got so much under my skin. I'm glad people are realizing what was really wrong with it. I know a lot of fans including my friends where disappointed but a lot of people praised it and i never saw why. I'm glad they're finally opening their eyes
Me too, i hate this movie
Httyd1/2 and serial
httyd3
@@rzaban couldn’t have said it any better!
I was very mad when this came out just cause it really ruins the franchise
I think my biggest complaint was the dragons-specifically Toothless and the Light Fury. I don’t even remember if they gave her name or what it is-that’s not generally a good sign. She had like no character to her. I couldn’t tell you a single thing about her. Toothless suffers from this to an extent as well. He just felt more like a character in the Other films, while in this one he felt less like an intelligent being and more like:.. a dog. And sure, he behaved like a dog sometimes in the other films, but that was never JUST what he was.
To me personally. How to train your dragon 3 is definitely the weakest in terms of the story and characters. Even though I did understand the ending. It didn't feel natural to me. When Hiccup told Toothless to lead the dragons to the hidden world. It basically destroyed the core messages and everything the franchise was building up to at that point. And Grimmel was definitely a very generic villain. I definitely would have been happy with them bringing back Drago from the second film which is what they originally planning to do.
After watching THW for the first time I was like "meh" The story went exactly the way I predicted it from the trailer so I wasn't surprised or shocked or anything. The movie had some good scenes but that's it. After 2 years after watching it for the first time I realized that I couldn't remember the plot, only: we started out here, then scenes happened but I can't put them together to form a coherent plot and then the dragons left. So I rewatched it. Turns out the reason I couldn't remember the movie's coherent plot is because it had none. Things happened and characters did things but after watching it again I didn't find anything worth remembering about the plot. And then I started deconstructing the whole thing and that's when I realized that I really don't like that movie. The characters are very out of character. Everything they try to convey is done in a bold "hits you right in the head with it" kind of way and it completely lacks subtlety. The movie relies heavily on telling instead of showing. The villain is boring and incompetent and completely relies and Hiccup's superior incompetence to win. The light fury is bland and toxic. The reason humans and dragons had to be segregated wasn't convincing to me. Just the whole movie started falling apart as soon as the cognitive dissonance started wearing off.
"Movie look pretty and well animate" as a fill-in for an actual good story is too common. It's infuriating. That's ALL I heard about this movie from people that gush about how "good" it was - it looked cool. That's it.
@@drawingdragon Ikr - I hated the third movie ever since I saw it in the theaters back in 2019 and most people online loved the movie back then and praised it to no ends and I was seriously asking myself if there was something wrong with me, like wtf - And tbh they made Toothless look like a plastic toy in the third installment. He didnt look like a dragon anymore like in Movie 1
Not to mention the CHARACTER ASSASSINATION oh my god. Valka, the badass dragon taking woman? Basically nothing, almost no lines THW. Eret, who had such huge potential to be developed significantly? Almost nothing. I wanted him to become part of the main group. Astrid? The smart badass partner of hiccup and his voice of reason? All she is is the stupid wife character. Also I missed the cute dragon shenanigans. Like the “Stormfly, drop. Stormfly, fetch!” All the dragons apart from toothless had zero character at all
@@0800sofa And not even Toothless had any character. He was reduced to a slobbery, horny animal that cares about one thing and one thing only: getting laid. He doesn't care about his duties as alpha but he wants every dragon to follow his command regardless, he doesn't get a flight scene with Hiccup and he likes the light fury simply because ✨️she girl✨️, no other reason. The light fury had to do nothing to prove herself to him, all she had to do was exist for Toothless to willingly and readily abandon his best friend of 6 years just to be together with her after knowing her for no longer than a week.
Yea that "characters beeing out of character" really bugged me too :/
...and horrible joke about Snotlout simping for Hiccups mom.....just no.
+ it annoyed me that Valka didn't do anything herself she just comes up to Astrid and tells her what SHE should say to Hiccup 0-0 ur his mother just do it yourself...or the other way around (Astrid) ur his girlfriend for God knows how long ! you shouldn't just wait and stand around untill somone Tells you how to comfort your other half
Absolutely _loved_ the first movie, liked the second, and... well, I haven't bothered rewatching the third. Felt too busy, to much focus on the side characters and cookie-cutter villain, instead of the core relationship of Hiccup and Toothless which was the heart of the previous ones.
I think the reason HTTYD THW feels so out of place compared to the other movies is because they tried to make it too similar to, well, HTTYD. As in the books.
For those that don't know, the original HTTYD books were very different from the adaptation! So much so, that the animated HTTYD franchise is more loosely based on it than intended to be accurate. The stories had similarities, but ultimately had two very different worlds set up.
From what I've read, Luna was the second-in-command to a dragon named Furious. She was so bright, she radiated heat (Luna is also probably the reason so many people nickname the Light Fury Luna, as they do share notable similarities!). Luna was part of a rebellion, and believed that Vikings should not control dragons. Keep in mind that in the books, dragons were often servants, not partners. Hiccup agreed with her, and she eventually led the dragons into hiding. (edited because I made a mistake right here)
The books start off with Hiccup stating there were dragons when he was a boy, so the audience already understands they're going to be separated eventually. The HTTYD animated franchise up until THW had the tone of "This is how many of our greatest foes became our best friends!" when the books never really did that, from my understanding. The sudden similarity and tone shift to match the books doesn't line up with everything else, because all the animated media did up until that point was reinforce the idea Hiccup and Toothless were inseparable, so seeing them separated just feels... wrong.
@@clutchthecinnamonsergal8493 Ah, my bad. I haven't read them personally, I've only read bits and pieces about them online.
Luna shares zero similarities with the Light Fury, other than being white-colored and not liking humans, and none of the dragons in the dragon rebellion like humans, that’s why there’s a rebellion. You don’t have to keep justifying the movie, you can just consider it non-canon.
@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 Or just consider it canon
@@Jdudec367 I don't understand these people. k random troll your baseless, disconnected from the argument mockery of what I said convinced me, of... something 👍 ignoring ur billion replies now
@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 I`m not a random troll though. I`m not baseless or disconnected from the argument. I didn`t ignore them though.
It felt rushed, Grimmel felt unoriginal and not a real villain (Viggo from the show was a better villain regardless of his conclusion)
Also I would have been fine with the movie if the message was "I accept the fact that you have a separate life from me and I don't have to be around you 24/7" but the movie doesn't do that
The idea that dragons have to be separated from humans because two villains used them for evil purposes is a flimsy reason. According to the logic, we should send all domestic cats and dogs into the wild because of the few humans that use and abuse them. Doing that doesn't really solve anything
Also as someone else pointed out, the Light Fury (sometimes I call her Luna) acted like a possessive girlfriend and I think it would have been interesting to show that not all humans are bad but again the movie doesn't really flesh out her personality or have her learn anything
Exactly.
I have said this before and I'll say it again: the "hidden world" should have been the lost pack of nightfuries. Imagine toothless funding out that there are still furies around. He wouldn't have been the last of his kind and would have gotten back his family.
The light fury should have been a female night fury. If they really wanted that theme of "getting a family and settling" toothless should have gotten his family back.
Not to mention every character is so ooc, especially toothless, ruffnut and snotlout. They butchered thier characterisation to fit the ending of the httyd books,,, which are an entirely different tale. The books ending of the dragons going away into hiding happened on their(the dragons) terms unlike the movie where they were basically forced by toothless.
It's been 3 years and this movie still makes me mad. All the potential lost...
Yep, personally I didn’t mind that toothless was the last Night Fury, that was one of the things that made toothless special and unique, and it made hiccup special too. However I do agree, lost potential and bad movie, but my problem was that they left and that made no sense also toothless and hiccup weren’t the same person and were completely different, the villain was crap and the plot made no sense. And of course, the light fury.
When I first saw this film, I felt the same exact way, like, "That was it?" I wasn't satisfied with how the trilogy ended nor with how the story was handled and *the entire movie is overloaded with plots: Toothless finding a mate, the main baddie, Berk moving to a new place, AND the Hidden World of dragons.* The first two movies had simple plots to follow: Hiccup discovers Toothless and rids prejudice from Berk; Hiccup discovers his mom was a dragon rider and helps her defeat Drago. That's it.
If I were one of the writers, I would've completely cut the last two plots and just have the story be about Toothless finding a girl and Hiccup coming across Grimmel. From what I remember, Grimmel was basically supposed to be what Hiccup would've been if he had killed Toothless back then which, to me, was a GREAT IDEA!
Grimmel: a master Night Fury hunter who uses a female Fury and threatens to kill Toothless, raises the stakes compared to the previous movie, therefore dedicating more movie time to flesh out Grimmel and have Hiccup facing - essentially - his alternate self, which is more interesting than rehashing the 2nd movie's plot of finding a new dragon nest. If Hidden World had just gone the simpler route and stuck to what they had here already, I think it would've been better.
And yes, about the ending respecting the books' ending .... as another commenter said on here, the movies are very loosely based on the books, and BARELY follow the same plot and elements. Having the exact same ending was not an obligation and I would've cut that too.
I honestly have a lot to say about this film now that I have sat down and thought about and listened to others' takes and came to my own conclusion. I promise I will try to keep it brief.
First of all, out of the trilogy, this film is the weakest when it comes to the story. As other people have pointed out, the resolution of "now we have to separate the humans and dragons" makes zero sense concerning how the previous 2 films firmly established that humans and dragons can coexist. So for them to pull a 180 and randomly decide now is the time to bring in the book ending (when the films had very little to do with the books in the first place) makes no sense either. The push to separate hiccup and toothless feels like all that they fought for and proved in the last 2 films AND the TV series, feels extremely forced and unnatural. I remember watching the ending, and while yes I felt sad, I left the theater feeling "eh?"
I know I am beating a dead horse when I say this but Grimmel is a generic villain. Grimmel was hyped up to be this end all be all villian, the final boss of the raid. But honestly? He is a discount Viggo Grimborn. I know a lot of people rank Grimmel as one of the best Dreamworks villain but that just shows me that those people haven't seen Race To The Edge. Viggo actually had Hiccup against a wall so many times and outsmarted him in ways that were well, actually smart. Grimmel just doesn't hit the same beats as Viggo, plus Viggo was just a business man, he didn't want control like Grimmel (which btw they already fucking did that in the 2nd film but whatever)which makes Viggo a more original and interesting villain. Grimmel just feels like a shoehorned wedge that was there for the sake of driving Toothless and Hiccup away from each other and proving that "humans and dragons can't live together because humans are too evil," which again is horse shit. Plus the whole "he single-handedly killed all the Nigh Furies" is just really hard to believe.
Speaking of a wedge. . . I do not like the light fury as a "character" in this film. A director (I think) at dreamworks stated that the light fury would be a "Call of the Wild to Toothless." If that doesn't scream plot device then I don't know what does. Don't get me wrong, I love her design and I think she is very cute but that is as far as she goes for me. I get it, she is a skittish dragon from the wild and hasn't had a good experience with humans but holy fuck she is irritating in the film (she is even worse in Homecoming). I absolute DESPISE the trop where "years of establish friendship is ruined because a girlfriend is introduced and therefore the friendship is ended," that is basically exactly what happens here. She is literally just there for the purpose of driving a wedge between Hiccup and Toothless, if she wasn't there, hiccup and toothless would have still been together after defeating Grimmel. I get the argument that people make saying "well what about what Toothless wants?" Well I'll elaborate a little later on why the way the film went about that makes no sense either. The light fury is a possessive girlfriend that can't change herself for toothless, no toothless has to change his life for her, it is a one sided relationship. Even when at the end the light fury trusts hiccup, she still basically doesn't care that toothless is leaving a deep relationship with hiccup and just takes him away to the hidden world. It's just hollow and infuriating, again, it doesn't feel natural.
This is a point that I don't see brought up a lot but I need to highlight this: Toothless is out of character in this film. Remember how toothless was hiccup's equal in the last two films (and TV series) and was always there for him and would fight tooth and nail to protect hiccup even over little things? Yeah well now he's horny. I get the fact that he's an animal but he has been shown time and time to be far more intelligent than most dragons. The scene that infuriates me the most to this day is the first meeting with the light fury. I understand that she was frightened and was defending herself, I am not mad at that, I am upset with how Toothless acted in that scene. She literally tried to kill hiccup and astrid TWICE within the span of 5 seconds, and what does toothless do? "Oh no don't hurt them pwease!" Like what the fuck? I get it she's pretty but she literally tried to murder his bestfriend of almost a decade and he just sits there fucking passive? Again, we have seen Toothless act protective of hiccup for LESS. But she doesn't just try to kill hiccup in one scene, she does it AGAIN in another when the Berkians were flying to a new island and she follows them and comes out of nowhere and grabs hiccup off of Toothless and fucking throws his ass flying in the air so he can fall to his death. What does toothless do? He just smiles passively and dives after him to catch him. She tried to kill his BESTFRIEND that he has love and protected for YEARS 3 TIMES and Toothless does nothing because she is a girl and she is pretty. What bullshit. Not to mention Toothless leaves with her to go to the hidden world with NO HINT of ever returning. I know hiccup gave him the ok to go on his first day but Toothless seemed content with staying with the light fury in the hidden world and didn't seem broken up about leaving hiccup. It wasn't until hiccup and astrid had to come AFTER HIM did he come back with hiccup, like hiccup was understandably worried about Toothless with Grimmel on the loose, but Toothless was ready to drop his entire life to be with her. In my opinion, Toothless was my least favorite part of this film, his character was changed just to get the plot at a certain place, it's so dumb.
Im gonna speed run this point because this comment is getting long, but the side characters were a waste. All that growth from RTTE was for nothing and Snotlout hitting on Valka wasn't funny at all, it was really Cringy and hard to watch. Ruffnut has been in hostage situations before and has been smarter about it. The fact that she was so dumb to not check if Grimmel was following her was stupid. I know the twins are suppose to be dumb, but this feels really dumb.
But overall, I don't like this film as much as the others. I get that people say that the message of "learning to grow up and let things go" is amazing, and yes I do agree. However, that message was done way better in Toy Story 3.
This!!! I hated how out of character everything was and how all character development was scratched, it felt like everyone Hiccup, Astrid, Valka and Eret were just comedic relief.
They could've written the light fury in any way other than 'possessive girlfriend.' I truly hated that. And how Toothless suddenly doesn't care about his family because of a rude dragon he has just met.
The theme of the entire franchise was Hiccup and Toothless through thick and thin, dragons and people can co-exist and there will always be evil but we can overcome it together.
Tldr; it felt like we were watching different characters and the plot was possessive gf doormat bf
I think that much of the issue with the third movie are a direct result of fans watching one very specific part of the franchise: Race to the Edge. Viggo Grimborn is everything Grimmel should’ve been and more, he just doesn’t hold the title of nightfury killer. Grimmel is a great foil in concept for Hiccup. He’s very smart and doesn’t fit into the burly Viking stereotype just like Hiccup doesn’t. His key difference is that, according to him, instead of befriending a night fury, he killed it where it slept. And that was what was supposed to make him an intimidating villain that was an active threat. But we don’t see much of his actual hunting of Toothless. We just see that he’s almost able to outsmart Hiccup. The issue is that we’ve already seen that in RTTE with Viggo. RTTE isn’t canon, but Dreamworks should’ve acted as though it was. Because Grimmel looks like a rehash of Viggo but done worse. Heck, Viggo _DOES_ worse. He enslaved dragons, he unleashed a plague only curable through a thought extinct dragon, on a boat of people simply to create a demand for dragon hunting, he blocked off a safe, popular trade route to Berk to force Hiccup to relent, otherwise make his tribe face starvation, and so much more, all for a dragon hunting business. And yet Grimmel is what convinces Hiccup that dragons and Vikings shouldn’t live in the same world together, for the sake of the dragons? All Grimmel did was burn down the village. Dragons did that every other night for centuries, and that wasn’t ever enough to convince them to leave before, Hiccup included.
Wow great points seriously I agree with them all, nothing to add to that maybe except that Grimmel design and voice was not intimidating at all like how will he measure up to Viggo's voice actor who played Doc Ock...
They made a story a conflict a divergence of path with Grimmel yet they didn't give it much time due to movie format which just did not have much of an impact in the whole OW! look at what HIccup could have become type of deal
I like all 3 movies but I definitely am not satisfied with the last one... still it is one of the best trilogies out there.
Viggo was such a good villain with so much character growth it's almost unreal honestly...
It‘s not just that Grimmel is inferior to Viggo, he is just very incompetent as a whole. First he uses a light fury as bait for Toothless, even though furies mate for life and this one light fury might already have a mate, rendering her completely useless as bait. Then he just drops her off at Berk without even restraining her. The poison could‘ve easily worn off before Toothless finds her and she could‘ve just flown off. Then he goes to Berk where Hiccup already knew he was coming(otherwise he wouldn’t have made Fishlegs pretend he is Toothless to protect him) and Grimmel is only able to do that because Hiccup didn’t even bother to increase defenses or build a trap to capture him or anything like that so if Hiccup didn’t just sit by like a dumb little boy then Grimmel would’ve gotten captured and it would be game over for him. Then he “predicts“ where Hiccup and Berk would go by saying that furies can’t survive in the cold when the real reason that Hiccup went that way was to search for the hidden world, meaning if Grimmel wasn’t as lucky and the general direction of thw was elsewhere he wouldn’t have found them and his plan would’ve failed. Then he shoots down the light fury and then Toothless but he’s only able to do that because T steps out of the grass where he had cover while powering up a very slow but powerful blast like a dumbass, allowing Grimmel to shoot him down before he can fire. If T wasn’t as stupid, if he had just fired a quick blast to disarm him before going for the kill, Grimmel would be dead already. Every ounce of his “competence” derives from him being very lucky or Hiccup and Toothless being incredibly stupid, nothing he does shows that he’s actually smart.
Viggo on the other hand - he’s brilliant. His plans are well thought through and although we see that Hiccup isn’t dumb and he manages to keep up with Viggo he still loses to him sometimes -not because Hiccup is incompetent but because Viggo is even smarter than Hiccup.
@@Luna-ny9fq exactly. And Viggo felt legitimately intimidating at times, even to me as I watched. He thought things out so well and so far ahead, that it catches even the audience off guard at times. And yeah, the show had the advantage of being 6 seasons long, so they had more time to flesh out Viggo’s character, but that was also while doing so with 4 other main villains, that being Dagur to a point, Ryker, Krogan, and Trader(Traitor) Johann. And that was ON TOP of building up the characters and arcs of Hiccup and the gang, Heather, Stoick, Mala and Throk, and the Wing Maidens, and even GOTHI of all people in the episode all about her and the Snow Wraith. And the creators did an honestly fantastic job of building up the characters and having every little detail and plot twist thought out. But then Grimmel comes along and his character is not only lacking, but in context of the entire trilogy and shows, it feels like a ginormous plot hole tbh. If Grimmel is supposedly so well known for hunting night furies and stuff, how the heck has nobody in the entirety of the archipelago heard of him. You could argue that he’s a stranger from a strange land like Drago, but that’s completely ignoring all the traders, and eventually Hiccup and the gang, who wander outside of the archipelago and meet people who are not friends with dragons, or they still fight dragons. And nobody at any point thinks, “let’s get that one guy who’s supposed to be the night fury hunter”? Not even the dragon hunters/Viggo? Not even Valka, who’s been further out than anyone on Berk? And going off of that, if you have a guy who’s a night fury killer and has seen them and lived to tell the tale, why is Berk in the dark, not knowing a single thing about the species, not even what it looks like? Maybe that’s thinking too deeply about it bc obviously there is some retconning with certain aspects of the trilogy, but still.
@@sealink129 At the very latest you’d think that Eret would’ve mentioned to Hiccup that there’s a night fury killer out there after he became good. But of course he didn’t do that until it was too late (and convenient for the plot)
@@charko4191 idk. I think his voice and design had potential to be menacing and is ok, but they made him too…. Idk. Too humorous maybe? I think it’s in his personality. He’s so like, arrogant and confident in his abilities, but at no point really shows us that he can be a legitimate threat, especially when we constantly see him mocking Hiccup and underestimating him, even though we only really see him get the best of Hiccup like,
two or three times. And almost every time is simply out of ambush rather than cunningness and outsmarting Hiccup. Drago, though yes, had brute strength and a bulky, towering build, was also menacing in personality. He yelled a lot, he was obviously very brutal and slightly psychotic, he was able to build his army and command a dragon hundreds of times his size, through nothing but intimidation and his terrifying presence. I think with Grimmel, they gave him too many of like, Hiccup’s qualities, while also trying to make him different and I’m not sure it worked in their favor. Hiccup’s smart, he’s funny and sarcastic, he’s a walking stick but can fight really well, with dragons and without, etc. but then we get to Grimmel, and he’s obviously meant to be a foil of Hiccup, but of substantially lesser competence than Hiccup. And I think it hurts the story more than it helps the character. There’s right ways of doing foils between protagonists and antagonists, and Grimmel ain’t it.
the movie tried to rush into the ending the books did, and it didn't work at all. for those who don't know, yes the movies are based on a series of 12 books by the same name. i'll try not to lean too hard into spoilers here because i really do recommend reading them.
a huge difference between the books and the movies is that in the books, dragons are (for the most part) sentient beings with their own language, that have been enslaved for hundreds of years. a war is sparked in the last few books of the series by a dragon leading a rebellion against humans. when hiccup is finally able to get through the the leader, the narrative acknowledges that dragons and humans CAN live together in peace, but society takes a long time to change, and for every good person, there is someone who will want to harm dragons. so hiccup tells the dragons if they decide that by the end of hiccup's lifetime humanity hasn't improved sufficiently, they can go hide and hibernate and wait it out.
this is a gradual process, a process that is entirely optional on the dragons' part. it takes hundreds of years for dragons to fully go into hiding, and (and this is important) toothless STAYS. he, like many many other dragons, love their humans too much to leave. he never goes into hiding. he never leaves hiccup behind.
the movies (ironically, because they've never cared about staying true to the books before) try to rush into this ending, and they get it so, so wrong. instead of a gradual retreat, all the dragons immediately go hide in a singular cave. all at once. unlike in the books, they were not in the middle of a long and bloody war. dragons and humans were co-habituating just fine for the most part. every single dragon, including toothless, abandons their humans on a whim. despite the movies building up to how humans and dragons could live together in peace, this was abruptly given to us as the only right solution. sorry, i call bullshit.
As a fellow books reader, this is well said! The movie ending should not correlated to book ending at all. Unless if things went worse like in the books, it wouldn't make sense for "the world doesn't deserve dragons yet" narrative. They should have make their own ending
I read somewhere that Toothless DID leave, but not permanently like in the movies. He would frequently visit Hiccup, but as the years went by, those visits would become less and less frequent to the point where Hiccup felt that Toothless' next visit would probably be his last (due to Hiccup's old age and inevitable demise). Correct me if I'm wrong though.
@@rebekahsegun8319 he didn't "leave" persay, but hiccup acknowledged him as his own person who was allowed to do what he liked. when toothless felt like flying around on his own for a while, he was allowed to do that, but he always ALWAYS came back. and yes, the book ends with hiccup as an elderly man waiting for toothless to fly in through the window one last time, knowing and trusting in their bond that his best friend would always come back to him.
The final battle would’ve been much cooler if the villain found the hidden world and they had to protect it from him, but that’s just my opinion
My biggest qualm with the 3rd & final installment of the HTTYD film series is the Light Fury, but not for the reasons you may initially think.
I've had this discussion with some friends of mine (who are also hardcore HTTYD nerds) and I brought this controversial take up to them (spoilers ahead)...
*It ultimately wouldn't have mattered if Grimmel had killed the Light Fury.*
I know, I know. Hold your pitchforks and let me explain why I say this. For starters, there are two reasons as to why I believe this.
*1) The Light Fury is Expendable*
Light Furies, unlike their Night Fury counterparts, are not on the brink of extinction. If Grimmel had killed Toothless's girl, Toothless could easily find another female Light Fury to get with. The only reason the audience cared about the main Light Fury in the movie is because we see her relationship with Toothless & how she makes him happy. We're made to care about her. However, the point still stands - she's expendable. Sure, you could argue that if she had been a female Night Fury, that plot point would have been super predictable, but at *LEAST* the stakes would be a LOT higher in the Hidden World's final fight scene where Grimmel is threatening the life of Toothless's mate: Grimmel would be threatening the permanent extinction of the Night Fury species as a whole, which brings me to my second point...
*2) The Villain Won in The End*
While it is true that Hidden World ended on a bittersweet note that left us all teary-eyed yet happy, I can't help but to be a little disappointed by the villain winning. How? Well, Grimmel's whole schpeel was "to eliminate Night Furies once and for all." Which is effectively what happened. The Night Fury dragon species (assuming that Grimmel was telling the truth about him effectively eliminating 99% of the Night Fury species and he was indeed *NOT* exaggerating out of his own arrogance) is no more. There are Light Furies and yes, there is also the brand new Night-Light Furies....but Grimmel ultimately had his wish fulfilled. Night Furies are no more. After Toothless dies from old age, illness, etc. that is.
You know, before this movie came out, when I was in high school, I was expecting the main villain to be something like the Fire Nation from TLA, where there was this large cult nation of dragon haters that heard about Toothless's existence as the alpha and try to hunt him down. I even drew a poster for this idea when I was in high school. I wasn't disappointed that that wasn't the case, but I kinda wish it was.
... I'm disappointed.... lol. That sounds awesome.
If anyone read the official art book, all the quotes from the directors and producers about the Light Fury’s design made it abundantly clear that she’s not designed that way to look aquatic or be accurate to living underground or any kind of scientific reasons the fans try to use to excuse it. Nope. It’s all because they wanted her to look girly- attractive, “not fall too much into the reptilian category,” “smooth,” “feminine,” and with no spikes or scars or even markings that could look like scars because she needs to look as attractive as possible. Even though she’s a fucking dragon. All they could do was go on and on about making her attractive and feminine and graceful and feminine, nothing scientific whatsoever. Her tiny feet, heart shaped tail, round wings, lack of ear flaps, tiny nose, glittery scales, faint pink highlights, (yes she had faint heart-shaped pink highlights in the movie) etc. had no reason but that. Those directors just don’t deserve the fans and their efforts to make it sound better.
Honestly, the friendship between Toothless and Hiccup was so much stronger than this. It's so disappointing to see Toothless immediately run off with the light fury; a character that should've just stayed a fan-made thing. At the end of the first film, the side by side comparison we get of Toothless and Hiccup walking through the door held the sweetest message in the entire franchise. The scene focuses on both Toothless's missing tail wing and Hiccup's prosthetic leg as they walk together, Toothless allowing Hiccup to lean on him for balance. They needed each other! They were always stronger together!!! Seeing the way the third movie ended just never sat right with me.
Not only that, but I noticed differences in Toothless's design and attitude that felt wrong. His giant brow bones? A beefy chest and more exposure of his gums? He looked and acted way more cat-like, mysterious, sleek and intelligent in the first movie than any of the sequels. We fell in love with that version of Toothless for a reason. Seeing him become a dumbed down dog-like dragon slobbering up a storm, panting and showing his gums so often just to score extra cuteness points from the audience felt weird. Toothless turning into a badass fighter jet of a dragon in the end of the first movie was brilliant as well and I just wish we could've seen more of that Toothless.
They just dismissed the theme of the franchise in this movie. All the characters except a few (not including Toothless sadly, he seemed like a completely different 1D character in this) were so watered down and just felt like comedic relief, scrapping all the development and depth they had.
The light fury's entire personality is just a rude possessive girlfriend and Toothless abandoned everyone for her, he barely knew her and was already okay with her trying to KILL Astrid and Hiccup, in past movies and shows he would not have let that slide. When Hiccup sends him off to find her, he just leaves and doesn't look back? Horrible and out of character, he would've left his whole family of a decade for a dragon he barely knows that has tried to kill them (his family) multiple times already, for what?! Because she's pretty!?! Absolutely idiotic.
"He's a wild animal what do you expect" *wild gestures at the 2nd movie plot* He has also been shown to have higher intelligence than most dragons and a higher emotional intelligence too. Plus the httyd dragons are shown to be extremely smart for animals.
Toothless might as well just be Hiccup's brother from another mother, he really isn't much dumber than a human, if at all.
And like, she's not even technically his own species, he never seemed to try mating with other species before even when he disappeared off during that Christmas special a few years back - only to bring back Hiccup's helmet instead of a girlfriend - so, it just feels jarrings that now suddenly he'd go for anything vaguely resembling a nightfury even though they're not the exact same species. Really, they could have done this those few years back, introducing the light fury then, either just as someone who Toothless just missed in the search for the helmet and make her seem less shoehorned in because of it, with her having cameos every now and again to remind us that she exists, or he could have even actually met her then, but returned like all the other dragons did after mating season was over because, well, why wouldn't he return to the island where was far better off for most of the year, having food, companionship and protection? It just feels like they never really thought this through and wanted something marketable. Because if they did, this all would have been in their drafts during the time the series was first being released if not sooner.
It's weird because, yes. He was a wild animal.. keyword, WAS, but Hiccup trained and bonded with him throughout the years of growing up together. He's more domesticated than wild.
That wasn’t toothless, someone took toothless from us and put place an imposter in Httyd 3
@@T_E_G and the years he was “domesticated”/with hiccup, were the happiest of his life.
Yet some people somehow think it’s a good ending that he left with the night fury
You made a good point i feel like toothless would have been justify if it was his own species that way he running off for her would make sense
Finally, someone talks about this. This movie has bugged me from the day I first saw it, and my dislike of it only grew since.
Seeing the comments, glad to know I’m not the only one upset about this bundle of wasted potential.
Same bro
I found Grimmel to be more than a generic villain. He doesn't want to control the dragons and take over the world. He thought he had the honor of killing off all the night furies and just wants to finish the job. He's a hunter first and foremost, but no warlord. He's essentially what Hiccup could have become had he killed Toothless in the first movie.
Yet he won in the end, with no more dragons...not to mention how all of his facts on Night Furies incorrect, eluding to the possibility I'm 100% sure he's nothing but a fraud and a liar.
True, honestly I think they could have left out the war lords because we don’t ever get any real background except for conquering the world and getting a dragon army. Grimmer felt like a good villain. Not some crazy warlord no just an exceptional Hunter with his pride.
@@Dinologan1015 Exactly! He says night furies can't survive in the cold when this is clearly false as we've seen toothless survive just fine on berk and on berk during the winter. Berk is also described as freezing cold in the first movie so we know grimmel is talking out of his ass
@@coffeecaim2527 Tbh it would be interesting if in the end he lied about killing all night furies or any at all ( like idk he just found one dead alredy and claimed to the villege he killed it and become addicted to fame so he became dragon hunter). However slowwly the guilt of the lie started to eat away at his sanity cuz even though he became excelent dragon hunter ,he never trully killed a night fury. All his life of lies he tried to find the night fury and finally kill it, he build his reputation around that lie so when he found a living Night Fury he decided that thats it he can finally fullfill his obbsesion by killing Toothless, his life would be complete.
I agree. Besides, he wasn't the focus of the movie. Hiccup's friendship with Toothless was. And that was done very well.
My own rendition of the movie >:)
Something that would’ve made the movie more interesting would be the Light fury being controlled by the deathgrippers’ venom. (A similar situation to when we first got introduced to Heather in RoB/DoB)
She would be cunning and try to separate Hiccup and Toothless, her true personality showing through occasionally. Then eventually she finds a way (like in HTTYD 2 when Toothless shoots Stoick) to make Hiccup angry at Toothless, separating them both emotionally and physically. She would then lure Toothless to Grimmel to be captured, but as they get there the venom wears off and they have to try and escape. The Light fury’s true personality would shine through. (Not the same personality as in the movie- that was kind of a pick me :/) being more of a wild resilient dragon with an independent feel to her.
While at the hidden world her family would rush up to her, both curious and scared at what had happened to her. She would try to think but all she would remember is a flashback of her out hunting, then everything turned black, and then she was flying home with this handsome Night fury, she didn’t know him but somehow knew his name and personality (she can’t remember anything from the venom) she would struggle to think until she would get sudden shots of pain in her skull. Flashbacks of the hideous Deathgrippers and Grimmel’s fort, Grimmel signalling for his partly-blind dragon to inject her. And then giving her commands. (Dark i know 😳)
Additionally at the end where Hiccup must let go of the Light fury in order to save Toothless, while he is falling he would narrowly dodge a silver spine which would break off his prosthetic leg.. making Grimmel fall. He would look up in surprise and see 3 scorpion-like tails grab him. Heather and Dagger on Windsheer and Sluether would catch him. Dagger would look down and simply say something like: “Brother! Long time no see!” When they get back on the sea cliff the Light fury would roar and all the dragons would slowly lose the mind control/venom, picking up their riders and returning.
This movie was the only time I've ever actually been pissed off at a movie. I remember walking out of the theater completely crushed, because this third installment completely undermines everything the franchise was supposed to be about, and ends in a way that makes it unfixable.
Basically they tried to force a square peg into a round hole.
I agree with almost everything you said, especially the thing about the score loosing a nomination. It's a crime against humanity. All of the movies featured a legendary score.
Personally, and my ADHD brain won't stop thinking about this, I thought that the 3rd movie should of ended with Toothless being with his own kind. Maybe finding his parents. And a reason why Hiccup lets him go is because he can see his dad somewhat in Toothless's dad and realizes Toothless never got to be with his own kind or spend time with his family so lets him go and because he's alpha, all the other dragons go with him so theres a proper drive for them all to leave. And at the end of the film they can show he found a mate and have lil babies.
Another outcome would be he finds an albino nightfury, since the reason she was a lightfury in the first place was so it wouldnt confuse the audience so just make her albino XD, and the plot focuses mostly on these two, gives her more screen time and then around the end theres promise of more nightfuries out there somehow so Hiccup lets him go to go find them with the other dragons going with him or something along those lines.
Leaving 'more nightfuries' Out of the equation when it was said so much in the second movie, "He might very well be the last of his kind", "Who knows, one day we might just find another nightfury. Wouldn't that be something?", it just felt like it was building up to be there at the end which is a main reason why I left the cinemas feeling...empty? Felt like I was promised something that never truely came and it was more of a bootleg adaptation XD The lightfury's design is great but honestly, they could of taken that design, made her the same shade as Toothless and called her a female version of a nightfury in my opinion.
I could ramble all day about this movie, I stg XD
I think it's fucking dumb that they decide the best solution to this is inconveniencing the dragons because of a handful of dragon hunters that to be honest never seem to quite live up to the threat level they are made out to be. None of the dragons die on screen except the villain of the first movie... why should I even believe Toothless is the last of his kind given this. The light fury, this downgrade from Vigo and this decision to "hide" the dragons in an environment they are not adapted for is just a mixture of ideas that probably seem wholesome on the surface, before you realise it's this whole Peta encouraged trend of "release your pets back into the wild, because that'll totally work out for every one of them including those not adapted to the vastly different outside world".
Don't get me wrong, the art and animation for the last movie is gorgeous but like, if they wanted "realistic", instead of breaking toothless and Hiccup apart they could have always had Hiccup and Astrid drift apart because teen couples rarely last well into adulthood and remain as forever couples. They could have had Toothless or Hiccup die or some other dragon die to show us there are stakes in this - although I would have hated that just as much, but still - or done any number of heart-wrenching but "realistic" moments.
Also this idea of both parties getting a girlfriend for life as if that truly happens in every scenario for all best buds... is just kind of unlikely? What are the chances that both friends will find a forever soulmate? From what I can tell with the people I've met and all the relationships I've known... not that many have such ideal relationships.
Also, only Toothless and Hiccup meet again. And Astrid apparently... but not the others? Like... I just don't believe that no one else had a bond with their dragons that would lead them back to each other because like, over the course of this franchise - when you include the series - and acknowledge Valka exists a lot of dragon riders bond with their dragons closely... moreover, this doesn't explain what happened to all those other non-Berkian people who also cared for, defended, trained, etc. dragons.
I will say "not as sophisticated" is such a bullshit view to have on animated movies. Like live-action is 90% CGI anyway these days, and it mostly boils down to being edgy and having unrealstic action sequences that never really feel exciting when you rewatch them. Things like Avengers, Ironman and Thor 2 have rewatchable qualities - the first two have humour and the first has a great villain and the second one I love for the family stuff and the occasional humour... even if the villain is dumb as heck and even I'll admit it's on the whole not a great movie - but I honestly don't think I'd rewatch the third Thor movie, or more than the intro sequence to the Black Widow movie (that one was amazing, but the rest of the movie... not that great)... However, just because live-action can be great doesn't mean it can't be bad, or that it's more sophisticated than animation that often goes above and beyond to deliver some of the best comedic and emotional moments in film in general...
If you wanted to make me agree that they should have just shut off their dragons from the world into some kind of glorified naturally made cage, you would have to build up one hell of an anti-dragon army that spands the entire globe that would be cornering these animals from every side to justify such a ludicrous idea. But there isn't one. In fact, over the course of the series we learn that Berk and Hiccup are not the only major dragon defending forces.
And after spending so much time not following the books all that loyally they suddenly go for a book loyal ending... bull shit.
YOu say This Becuase your a HTTYD Purist Or Something?
I never thought of the "Hiccup and Astrid wouldn't get married and stay together forever because teen couples rarely do" as a response to "BuT DiTcHing yOuR fRiEnDs FoR a FeMaLE aNd sEgReGaTinG humAnS fRoM aNimAlS iS tHe ReALiStIc aNd GriTTy eNdIng" but I'm laughing so hard, that's so true!
I'm so sick of the "bUt tHatS jUsT rEaL lIfe" excuse for a film to end in a horribly unsatisfying way.
@@drawingdragon that's just like your opinion
I just wanted another nightfury😭
I think its mostly the ending. It is still a great ending, but was unexpected and feels at least a little contradictory.
I still love the movie, but I do agree that one of the reasons said for the dragon’s release isn’t fully thought-out: yes people will use dragons as weapons & abuse them, but that’s the same for literally every animal & invention made and that will ever be made.
However, the other reason is reasonable: dragons were starting to over-populate Berk & they needed to live somewhere with bigger space that humans could give them.
But even then-
The dragons who had not been bonded to anyone, just rescued and healed could've gone to the hidden world, and the dragons which WERE very bonded to their FRIENDS, (because that's what they were: Friends, they were not pets, they were not any "posession" for the vikings, they were their friends) could have stayed on berk to protect the vikings and well, to not be torn away from the friends that they made.
>they needed to live somewhere with bigger space than people could give them
except that... the Hidden World, as huge as it is, is a finite underground space? when the majority of dragons have clearly evolved to be rulers of the skies, the hidden world may be a good sanctuary but I highly doubt it would have the space or resources to accommodate all of dragonkind (remember there are cannibalistic dragons such as the deathgrippers, as well as dragons that are extremely evolved to be in flight, like timberjacks) Hiccup, in sending the dragons away to the Hidden World, likely sentenced many species to extinction by the time of the nine realms.
For me, it's just a matter of the first two movies showing Hiccup and Toothless fighting for the sake of dragons' freedom and safety.... And then the third movie basically goes "Actually this is too hard and bad people exist, nvm go away forever Toothless"
Like... W H A T?
@@jadecoolness101 Yeah I hate that with a burning passion. They should have either made all the movies like this- giving up which y'know.. wouldn't be a smart idea
Or not ruin the last film with giving up the message of the franchise
I think the first reason was fair. Dragons were continuously massacred and used for attempted world-domination. And when you combine that with the fact that this would make Berk a constant target non-stop, it's a good reason.
Ok, you seem to completely skim.the reason WHY people.hated this film so much was BECAUSE previously the series had the theme that humans and dragons could co exist and even benefit.from it but this film did a whole 180 and was.like nope. Dragon's and humans can't coexist so dragons need to run and hide until humans can accept them, and that final scene showed the flaws of that idea. U no how the film shd have ended? Not only defeat all the bigots, show that dragons were here to stay but cut to the modern day and show how dragons have become an integral part of life!
That would’ve made the ending better, but the movie overall?
Takes a lot more than that unfortunately.
The only thing I think the movie sucks at is how they treated the side characters they felt like one joke wonders
After watching the series, seeing fantastic characters like Ruff and Tuff and Snotlout get basically thrown outrigh ignored as actual humans in the full-length films is infuriating
The character development from the previous installments is none existent. The characters also become dumbed down- the worst being toothless who just isn't the same as he was before
They were treated like that in the previous films. And even though the shows are canon, it's not like the people making them had some sway over the movies.
"Forgettable"... You're right. I watched HTTYD3 years ago and I barely remembered what happened mostly in the movie aside from Toothless and the Light Fury... not by much. I had to rewatch it again with the DVD I bought as soon as it was out (apparently I never opened until this year XD) and watching it again... yeah, it wasn't that good. I think I liked it initially when I first saw it, but after watching Race to the Edge... this movie butchered the characters in a lot of ways.
And how they handled why the Dragons left. I know the books had the dragons leaving in the end, but the book had a different narrative with the way it took the story with the dragons by kept as pets but not treated fairly which caused them to be angry with the humans and rebel against them leading to a war. Which went one for a few books I hear where it eventually had the Dragons leave back to the sea (the hidden world) with only a few Dragons visiting humans that treated them fairly and they're best friend.
Like Hiccup and Toothless and Toothless visited Hiccup a lot, but over the years the visits became more distant.
The movie universe? Had a different narrative going on. With the first movie having the Vikings and Dragons being enemies at first and then Hiccup forming a forbidden friendship with Toothless. The narrative is "going against Nature" in a sense as another UA-camr pointed out which even the second movie did too. Third one... no. There's no theme. No tone. I don't understand what the story here is about and they try to conclude the series with the same ending as the book in a way... but doesn't work.
I believe the Author of the books praised the first movie and said it had the spirit of the books and she loved it.
The movie should've gone a different route with how to end the series and I hear that there was Corporation meddling with the production too, which is why it had some issues.
I thought 3 was good enough, but I wish the Hidden World had Night Furies hidden there as it makes no sense for a single person to wipe out an entire species of dragons on his own. He ain't Frieza!
I love the first two movies and the TV series. I really think the 3rd one should be rewritten. Such a sad wasted potential of story telling there.
I feel Hidden World just felt like...just another episode of the series. The lack of an antagonistic kaiju dragon probably also contributed to the less "epic" feel of the climax. Since TJ Miller got kicked from production anyway, they could have killed off Tuffnut just to at least make the villain more dangerous, the consequences more serious, and the stakes more dire.
The issue I had with this movie is that it just feels like it's everywhere and nothing is allowed to breathe. The Berkians are forced to flee their home! Where were they set-- oh they found a place already. Here's the Light Fury! How will Toothless court-- oh he did a goofy dance for way too long and she's already attracted to him. Let's go to the Hidden World and-- now we're leaving, never coming back, okay. Oooh, did Grimmel actually control the Light Fury and is using her to lure Toothless into a no he just kinda captured her and now there's a fight. Who's Grimmel anyway? Hasn't gotten a lot of screen time and we're close to the end and oh he's dead okay guess that's that. And now without any further buildup the dragons are all leaving to the Hidden World, sure.
It's frustrating, too, because moment to moment it's an enjoyable film (mostly-- I found the mating dance scene excruciating) but holistically it just feels like a sequence of 'and then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened'. Hard to really care about any of what's going on when it feels like even the movie doesn't.
I think... That it's sad that the HTTYD series ended with the Race to the Edge series and there never was a third movie or any series after of any kind.
And anyone who says otherwise is just in denial.
Truly it was annoying, wish we got a 3rd movie.
But hey atleast it didn’t end with a terrible series or movie or a really bad ending right…
Oh yes, so true. Oh well, looks like we’ll forever just have to speculate about things like other nightfuries forever because that’s definitely what they would’ve done if the third movie had ever been made. Tragic that so many people are in denial. There is no third HTTYD movie in Ba Sing Se
I always viewed the trilogy as Hiccup sacrificing for his believes. The first film was about changing the villages' mind about dragons, he almost gets kicked out of the village and he loses a limb. In the second film, he wants to end the conflict peacefully by trying to reason with the villain, for that, his best friend kills his father just as he was reunited with this mother. In the third films he finally loses what he's been fighting for the whole time, the dragons.
That's a good thought. Hiccup always had to lose something, but he gained something in return. That's part of why I loved The Hidden World.
When I think of what's wrong with THW, this one scene with Astrid can basically sum up a lot of stuff. The one in which she tells HICCUP of all people "look at you! Embracing change!" As if the first two movies aren't all about Hiccup changing things and as if Hiccup's changes in the third film aren't met with constant backlash. Like what do you meeeaaaan he's finally embracing change??? He's trying to change several things in just this movie alone! Her statement makes no sense!
Astrid in general was a moron in this movie
Like that one other scene where she says "What did you expect? You gave him his freedom!", refering to Toothless to Hiccup after she CLEARLY stood next to him as he made the new tailfin for him - like, if she KNEW he wouldnt come back, WHY on earth didnt she tell Hiccup right then and there???
@@anfani6839 And also (can't remember if this was shown in the video or not) when Astrid invites Hiccup on a trip to the Hidden World to find Toothless and when the trip goes wrong blames HIM for DECIDING to go to the Hidden World like she wasn't the one to jump up on Stormly and suggest it.
Okay since we're on the subject why the h*@$ did Toothless just totally dump hiccup for the light fury and Hiccup was totally okay with it?
I mean I know he wasn't and I know he was doing it out of love for his friend and maybe he knew that this day would one day come or whatever but this just seems like it was a trend.
Like look at Frozen 2 and Elsa and Anna part ways. Look at Wreck-It Ralph to the previous year and vanellope and Ralph part ways.
Even did that head touching thing that was popular in 2018 and 2019.
Like they do that in Abominable, they do it in Moana and they did it in how to train your dragon 3.
I don't believe that they really had the best intentions with the third movie I think they were just trying to get it done even though the voice actors and people animating it tried their very best with such a slip shot story.
You can almost say that toothless loves the light furymore than hiccup!!!!
Just infatuated?
Toothless wants to go visit hiccup at some point during their separation and the light fury just rolls her eyes at his desires AND TOOTHLESS JUST AGREES LIKE A DOORMAT.
She put him under a spell of some kind and apparently Hiccup and toothless's relationship wasn't strong enough to survive it.
I'm sorry but what a stupid plot the real toothless would never just dump hiccup for some pretty face and if he did it's just proves that his friendship was shallow.
Okay rant over. 😃
The way Elsa and Anna, Ralf and Vanelope, and other characters part ways is different. For starters because it's less permanent. Elsa keeps visiting Anna, same kinda goes for Ralf and Vanelope. And it feels natural, they grew apart during the movie.
Toothless just left in a "OK bye imma go be with ma girlfriend, screw my best friend" kinda way. Toothless and hiccup didn't grow apart, hiccup decided that the dragons would be safer in the hidden world and Toothless was just horny. That's not growing apart. Anna discovered that she doesn't need Elsa to be strong and happy. Elsa discovered that she didn't fit in the kingdom. Toothless just kinda met someone and left everything for her in a timespan of 1 or 2 days. And hiccup was kinda miserable without his best friend. Anna learns that her power doesn't come from Elsa. Hiccup never really learns that his power does not come form toothless.
That was my rant haha.
I freaking HATE this trend of sequels saying "Remember that family/friend group we made in previous movie? They gotta seperate now because reasons, now be sad." I'm so glad someone else recognized the pattern. I get that in real life people grow apart or move on - but two things: One, I'm here to ESCAPE real life and watch people ride dragons and shoot fire at stuff, and Two, NONE of these sequels actually show a natural, mutual "growing apart" that makes sense and is beneficial to both parties' growth, or is even necessary at all. They're shoved-in obligatory "sad" plots that retcon canon, ruin character arcs, and basically throw out the entire previous films (Ralph Wrecks the Internet being the worst offender imo; but that's another story for another time).
I get people grow apart and sometimes life is hard. "Scawy hoomans exist so dragons have to segregate and hide in a cave forever" is NOT that.
They didn't want to milk the series but now we have Dragons: The Nine Realms
How to fix How to train your dragon 3 bitch:
1 get rid of all human enemies.
2 toothless girlfriend should have been a female night fury.
3 the enemy of the film should have been the separation of hiccup and toothless, where hiccup had to accept that Toothless would be better off with the female night fury instead of him.
4 add all the deleted scenes back in!
At 6:18 did anyone notice how Toothless was flying on his own?
This is easily my favorite of the trilogy, and my favorite Dreamworks film. I love the first two, but this took it to another level. Many of the problems people have I just don't understand. This movie was not forgettable. And the villain was a little different and also better too. While Drago wanted to control dragons, Grimmel wanted to kill all of them. He viewed them as beasts that aren't worthy of life. And him being "The Nightfury Killer" added some extra menace.
A big issue i see is, when the dragons kinda leave the world, the hunters stay. And they are gonna try find them, and New Berk is first on the list. It make no sense. Even if the dragon hunters dont find the hidden world. But knowing humans and vikings, one person in New berk could just spill it, and thats it, the hidden world is discovered by hunters, kinda makes them more undefended in a big hole then in the above. just my opinion but THW ending makes no sense.
I just realized that the reason hiccup visited toothless was to probably make sure toothless wasn't somehow grounded again because of a malfunction. As his own excuse to visit him, of course.
Yeh but it’s inevitable to happen, I mean unless Hiccup found some heavenly moon juice to make it out of.
My thought was that he wanted to show his kids that dragons exist and at they're not scary- given how they were afraid of them in Homecoming. But the idea of him wanting to check up on Toothless' tail is also good!
To be honest I think that no one actually did like httyd 3 and during it release time maybe it was just the hype that kept the good scores amd ratings going for it
Ye, that would definitely explain loads, I can’t understand people who think this is a good movie.
@@GoodMan-rf8mz I like it in some sorts of way I mean definitely without it’s flaws but yeah without the hype I do believe this movie would not get such a high score same goes for Toy Story 4 that movie was - Bull Shit
I remember seeing the "big goodbye scene" not feeling anything, which is so sad when you think about it, given by how great the first movie handeled their relationship. But this one was so unsatifisfying and frustrating to watch that it simply made me go "Does that mean the movie is over now? Finally. I want to leave"
Another frustrating HTTYD 1 Purist, How original...
@@primevalyautja1305 it honestly doesn't require a lot to have that opinion, just logical thinking buddy
honestly the main problem with it is the characters, the entire main cast is ooc the new characters are either annoying af or reboots of precious characters. they didn't keep the messaging of. thefirst films and ended up making a kids film which this franchise was never meant to be. i could go into more detail but that's the general problem with it. the plot is also a remake of a short that was made a. short. no wonder it feels wrong they have already solved this problem but decided to reuse it.
I didn't realise the third film had a nixed response
It does
Dragons 2 was robbed. "That was HIS mistake!". Also, I think I can safely say that the whole letting go of dragons plot point was needlessly dumb. It doesn't match with the books seeing as those are a lot more bleak with freeing the dragons as a last resort. Here, they created this beautiful unity better dragons and vikings and when someone makes a few points about how they must move on because "mating", it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It kinda feels like the whole "go back to where you came from" sentiment xenophobic ass holes be making in the 30's and repeated in certain stories where when the character from a certain plcae goes back to their roots and becomes better. There is no compromise or "bittersweet goodbye". It's them accepting the status quo that they could've never done anything impactful. Imagine if Ginger from Chicken Run simply accepted that she will one day be someone's dinner. Or, Po accepting that he isn't The Dragon Warrior. Or, Shrek accepting thay he is nothing more than a mean ogre meant to be feared, hated, and alone. This is the most non DreamWorks thing DreamWorks have ever done. You let things go if it is causing more harm than good. It would've been amazing to let the books have that message and let the films have the message of how unity is worth fighting for no matter what people say or do. At this point, I am fine with there jus being a first a second film like Rio.
Was a good movie but you hit the nail on the head calling the villain generic.
As a fan of the series, he was just a pale imitation of Vigo & Hiccup has had enough experience with him to know how to deal with the deceptive type. I also don't like forced reactions to a threat.
Expecting me to believe that the stubborn ass berkians would just up and leave their ancestral home over a house fire is pretty fucking stupid.
It felt like toy Story 4:
An unnecessary continuation that assasinates characters having main protagonists separate when the entire moral of the previous is sticking together, neither being atrocious, plenty of things to love, but I can definitely understand the hate.
In my opinion toy Story 4 did it better and deserved to beat the hidden world.
Hmm good point
Am I the only one who likes the second one the best out of all of them?
The 2nd one is not bad. But it had too much plotlines, something the 3rd movie also had. And because there was so much plot, there isn't a lot of character development.
The second one is my favourite too.
I feel the second one is a good sequel tho my main issue with it is that there are some new wasted characters like the villain or Hiccup's mother, the pacing also any mentioned from the shows but I still loved the first movie more
It seems oddly common to end a franchise with a splitting of the characters (both toy story 3 and 4 did this, each pretending it was the end), probably in an attempt to make the audience feel sad but fulfilled in saying goodbye to the characters they've been watching. The problem is, that doesn't always work.
I hated this movie. With a passion. It is beautiful to look at, but I never cared about a single thing I saw on screen. And I think that came from my sensing the oncoming ending. They took a story where Hiccup became great by doing the thing only a madman would do and becoming friends with his enemy-- an enemy he could have destroyed. He chose peace. He chose to give up everything he wanted so he could humanize the creatures his entire life had been focussed around killing. And in the second movie, he continues to do just that-- fight for the dragons who should have been his enemy. Even with Drago holding a knife to his throat (that knife being Toothless himself) Hiccup refused to dehumanize the dragons again, or let anyone else do so. He was powerful, legendary even, because he stood tall in front of the entire world and said: You're all wrong. Watch me prove it."
But then, the world is just too scary now. Sure, the dragons and humans fought for years on Berk and we could fix that, and suuuure we ALREADY fought a dragon hunting warlord who perceives the dragons as a thing to be conquered and used, and we could fix that, and SUUUUUUURE Toothless has already proven himself the coolest and most powerful dragon ever.... but this time, there's a GIRL. And Toothless is horny, I guess, so that's the end of it.
I would have liked a movie about rescuing the toothpaste fury from abusive evil human-- that could have been cool. If villain (I literally do not remember his name and couldn't remember while watching the movie either) had been using the white fury to try and lure Toothless to him, her being trained but abused in a sort of toxic version of Toothless and Hiccup's relationship, I would have been invested and interested. But no. She's just there, for some reason, and I guess she's hot, so all the bonds we've forged in the last two movies are moot! And if Hiccup's bond with Toothless doesn't matter anymore, I guess there's no reason to keep standing tall. Instead, he takes the coward's way out, deciding that defending the dragons like he's been doing for years is just Too Hard, and sends them all away until "humans are ready for them".
Newsflash: There will always be villains in the world. There is no hope in waiting "until we're ready". There is only an eternal condemnation of waiting. Wondering if I'm good enough, can I earn the magic back into the world? And being answered that no, Hitler exists, so I can't have nice things.
I know this is a long rant-- and late, since the video came out months ago... but I can't not say it. This movie was a disaster from its conception as far as I'm concerned. But I'm glad some people had a nice day at the theater when they watched it:)
And yet people are not wrong for defending HTTYD 3
Ok, I disagree with the 3rd. Toy story 3 made sense. It still follows the original theme "A toy's job is to make a kid happy", and that exactly what they did. Andy isn't a child anymore and he isn't interested in playing with toys, so he gave them to another child instead, who will play with them. I absolutely agree with the 4th tho. Woody left his best friends and his duty for... A girlfriend. Doesn't make sense at all.
@@VivianaSilverback I don't mean to say that the 3rd Toy Story was bad, simply that it fits into the trope of "this is the end of the franchise so let's have a character separation/goodbye scene at the end". It's not a favored trope for me, but it can be done well. Toy Story 4 and HTTYD 3 both use it very very poorly.
The first one is one of my all time favorite movies ever. Tried watching the third one on a flight and just couldnt bare it. Call me a nasty lil queer, but it felt like i was spoon-fed heteronormativity the entire time. It bothered me so much and the plot was so boring that i ended up quitting the movie a little after the halfway mark. I literally had nothing better to do and i decided to stop watching anyway. I thought this film was about the friendship between toothless and hiccup, yet the third movie was mostly spent around their girlfriends. When i later read about the ending, can't say i was too surprised.
Alternate title: How to train your dragon three, the heteronormative world
Personally I loved this movie, and most of my praise goes to the story and pacing. From the moment Toothless and Light Fury met, we only visibly see a week pass. The reason I find this as a strong pacing is because it felt so sudden. And it was, and so is reality. So much can happen in a week, hell, so much can happen in a day. I mean if Toothless had been able to fly after the Light Fury after their first meeting, it would have been much shorter of a movie. Dean has said this third movie was mostly about Toothless' story, and of course wrapping up Hiccup accepting he can be a good chief without Toothless, allowing them both to part ways and live their best lives at peace with the departure. So yeah, I think it's a little more realistic thus less fantastical, and of course no one wanted to see the dragons leave even though Dean wanted the movie to end with the book's theme of "there were dragons when I was a boy", and he does just that at the end. So do I understand why people were let down? Sure, no giant dragon to fight. Grimmel is kinda basic but at the same time he's more of a representation of the dark humans, trophy hunters for example, not so much an actual person, which I thought was really interesting. I really need to get to making my review for this movie and it's characters, good grief. lol Far too much to say in a comment.
I do appreciate others who accept the good and bad, though. Loved hearing your non-hostile opinions, that's rare. lol
Aye HTTYD 3 Is my Personal Favorite
@@primevalyautja1305 really?
@@GoodMan-rf8mz Got a problem with that, HTTYD 2 Purist?
Ironically, what this third film has the same main issue in common with Toy Story 4. Building up a theme of togetherness and sticking with your people no matter what, then the last movie comes in and says "Naw, it's better to go your separate ways" with no warning and completely undermining the message hammered home so well in the previous films. There's challenging and looking at your theme from a different angle and then there's throwing it to the wayside for absolutely no reason when no one was complaining about it and actually liked the theme.
So you’re saying you enjoyed Toy Story 4 but not httyd 3 because to be honest those Two movie are very similar
@@reyveneditsqueen119 No, I'm saying that they have the exact same issue and I don't really like either for that reason
@@morisatsuki3659 That was a common issue for a few movies around that time. Wreck-it Ralph 2 ends with Ralph and Vanellope going their separate ways; Frozen 2, Elsa is by herself living up north. I'm sure there was another one, can't think of it now though.
finally, somebody's talking about this
one little mistake im pretty sure you made, Grimmel was not trying to control the dragons and use their power, he was trying to kill all of them, he wanted to actively rid the world of all Dragons
In a way he literally won because of the humans and dragons separating
So like...what was the point in defeating him to begin with
@@LuckythecatZ- yeeah, the third movie has alot of logic and plot holes-
Ever think about how in this universe, dragons have been fighting humans for as long as they have existed, then Hiccup befriends one and the humans learn to co exist and love the dragons, and then send all of them away in the span of like 6 years?
I have read most of these comments and most people seem to be agreeing or roughly agree with what’s wrong with this movie. However everyone definitely seems to have A problem with this movie.
You never know, if it keeps shifting towards people not liking/hating/having a problem with this movie, Dreamworks might recognise there is money to be made, and make a 4th to remake the 3rd.
I honestly hated the 3rd one wasn't dark and gorey as I expected the 3rd one being darker than the 2nd one. Not gonna lie if I was a director of the movie, a half or a third of main cast would die. And Light Fury? That thing shouldn't be there, plus it literally copied fanfiction
The problem is not the contradiction of previous themes, that can be done. What's wrong is that it isn't believable, or, the material structure of the script does not make us believe that those characters would choose immediate and long lasting (if not perpetual) separation on that time and circumstances.
Unlike movie 1 and 2, the villain/antagonist- Grimmel is just kinda there. To me he feels like
a)reason to introduce light fury
b)minor inconvenience, because movie has to have antagonist
The movie is beautiful in it's own way. In more mature way. But if that doesn't make it the best one for you, nothing else will. There is no big boss fight, or at least it doesn't feel as big and as important it did in movies 1 and 2. There aren't any very cool, epic, mindblowing scenes, like let's say see you tomorrow, test drive, romantic flight for 1, and flying with mother and toothless found for 2. In this regard, it's a "boring" movie. You understand where it's good, and it really is, but if that fully doesn't do it for you, it just doesn't feel as good as others
I don't like the character assassination in this movie. Seriously what happened to the characters from the previous installments? They're like completely different people. I don't view anything from the third movie or that nine realms disaster as canon
That's your opinion though
@@dragozillasaur813 yes, it is, well done 🤣🤣
@@dragozillasaur813 Oh so ur a nine realms lover too huh?
@@mr.ghiblidude i don't but i Liked Rescue RIders and besides it's you HTTYD 1 purists or HTTYD 2 Fan boys that divided this Fandom, which is why I Left the fandom altogether 'cause you people claiming that people are wrong for Defending HTTYD 3
To solve the "That's it?"Problem
They should've made something like Race to the Edge but as a prequel to HTTYD3
OR
Since they already made Riders and Defenders of Berk as sequels to the first movie and prequels to RTTE
They could've made sequels to HTTYD2 and then a Prequel to HTTYD3
I didn't like the separation, I feel like it would have been better if they all went to the hidden world or something like that. I love the franchise but the separation is just not it a least for me.
Like if u agree
When I watched this in the theatre for the first time I bawled my eyes out so hard I got the stinkeye from the old lady beside me XD. I love Grimmel, though. He's a cunning, chilling villain compared to that raving, ranting, big baby Drago Bludvist, but I agree with your point; perhaps if he had been the 2nd movie's villain, I would've loved both movies more.
I also think this movie suffers a lot from stupid sideplot overload. What's the point with Snoulout hitting on Hiccup's mom? And don't even get me started on Ruffnut; she's so unbelievably, inhumanly stupid for a woman of that age and experience, it annoys me to no end. These pointless sideplots eat up precious time for no reason and drags out the runtime. One thing I've always hated about this series (the movies) is it never develops the characters of Fishlegs, Snotlout and the Twins, and use them as fuel for cheap laughs (but I'm annoyed by them). I wouldn't mind as much if they'd just remain static supporting characters that are actually funny, like Gobber, with no sideplot at all, like in the first movie.
But isn't Grimmel a watered down version of Vigo?
@@Aranoura So I've heard, but I haven't watched RTTE to that point yet. Also, the movies weren't made with people having to watch the Netflix series in mind and are standalone, so I'm judging based on that standard. Regardless, I'd take watered-down Viggo Grimborn over Drago any day. The latter is just too atrocious.
@@clutchthecinnamonsergal8493 Yes, I know. But since the movies are standalone (they didn't put Heather, Dagur or any other characters in), that's beside the point, isn't it? Even if you consider the development in the series, it's still a flaw since all of them would seem to have regressed to their starting point anyway with how they are portrayed in the second and third movies. How would you explain Fishlegs obsessing over honest-to-gods *Ruffnut* when he had a much more mature and less creepy relationship with Heather?
@@jeidafei1165 please watch rtte. It's the best thing DreamWorks has made since httyd1. And yes the animation could be better, but the story and the characters are great.
And what do u mean with Drago (what a original name....) is atrocious? Because there are a lot of different ways to interpret that.
@@AranouraI've started watching RTTE, but I kinda stopped after a while. I think I took Trader Johann's betrayal hard XD. I might go back to it some time soon.
I mean atrocious quality as a villain. I think Drago is a cliched and unintelligent villain. A guy who got his arm bitten off by a dragon so he's got a vendetta for all dragons? It's just been done hundreds of times before. And his goal? World domination. Of course. With dragons. Doesn't that contradict his hatred for dragons?
Also, how the heck did he manage to tame the Bewilderbeast in the first place? (I think Nostalgia Critic said it best in his spoof video XD) The movie never shows us a believable story behind that.
The climactic battle is also pretty lame. I was hoping for something smart, something unexpected but foreshadowed (like in the first movie). Instead it's just two dinosaurs bashing heads together, then Toothless shooting plasma bombs on Dark Bewilderbeest until he drops. It's a war of attrition. The hero is only as good as the villain, after all. I just wished they put more thought into making Drago a formidable villain.
The biggest problem is they started the movie with the quote "there were dragons when i was a boy" they started the movie with an endgame ans shoehorned the plot in as to why the dragons had to leave. It goes against the themes of the first two films of humans and dragons working together to overcome that kind of challenges. I think they could have ended it better. And kept to the themes of the first two films even if they wanted to end it bu giving a good epilogue. There were also issues with Hiccup and the other dragon Riders seeming to not regressed and become less mature than they were in the second film. Again forcing the plot to reach a specific endgame, the Dragons leaving.
I know I'm late by two years but I had to put my two-cents in.
I think that the biggest downfall of this movie is the story. If the big bad guy hadn't existed or had existed in any other form, toothless and hiccup would have no need to isolate to the hidden world. The entire point of this franchise was learning to communicate and coexist with nature and people you may not necessarily get along with. It's a very profound message for a childrens' franchise to tackle but it flaked out in the final movie. I think a far better plot would have been the discovery of the very isolated Hidden World and the subsequent attempts of Hiccup and Toothless to coax the dragons there out of hiding, showing them that the world is mostly safe now. A side conflict could be Astrid and the rest of the gang dealing with the issues of a growing population of people and dragons, drawing attention from less than friendly visitors, as well as the challenges of leadership. Toothless could even have uncovered a small population of nightfuries scraping by in the Hidden World. He learns how to be a nightfury while astrid and hiccup learn to be chiefs. Also toothless's design in the first film was the best he's ever had.
Totally my thoughts exactly, hit the mark!
The Hidden World was an okay movie. If it wasn't for the last about 10 minutes it would not have been good. It was an okay ending to a great franchise. 1 was very good, 2 was really great, & 3 was okay or not bad. It didn't fully stick the landing, but overall the franchisee itself is very good or extremely solid.
Fun fact: the producer of the movie hates series that just keep going and he wanted to end the franchise one way or the other. And this was probably the most successful way to permanently end the film franchise.
Well, until it gets rebooted fifteen years later.
Or they do whatever in the world The Nine Realms tried to do. It's not really a film, just wanted to bring it up.
I respect the decision to try to end it though, nothing needs to be a 900+ episode franchise with minimal progression.
@@Lunar_willoww there's nothing wrong with ending a franchise or just a series, because a lot of series and franchises overstay their welcome (especially science fiction and fantasy series have this problem). But just as the stretching of some other series or franchises becomes forced. This ending of a film series feels forced. And unresolved, because there are still so many questions that will now never be answered.
The ending to both riders/defenders of berk and rtte was good, I would say perfect. It was a soft ending, but the plot of the series was solved questions regarding the series answered. It was spectacular and statisfying, especially the ending of rtte.
The ending to httyd 3 is a hard ending, but many httyd3 questions aren't answered. Not all the plot solved. Which makes the ending even more disappointing.
They could have just... not even made a third movie? They could have just... made a different sequel? They could have given it more thought before getting it out there? Like they could have permanently ended this franchise a few years later with better writing...
They could have ended it differently... Or just not made a third movie. I'd have preferred if the third movie never existed but that's just my opinion
Just to add to this.
Dean DeBlois (the producer and director) was a Star Wars fan. Now he grew up with the OG 3 movies which are now 4,5 and 6. The younger generation (including myself) usually love the 3 prequels, (phantom menace, clone wars and revenge of the sith). However, (in my experience anyway), the people who grew up watching the OG 3 don’t really like the prequel 3 or the sequel 3.
My guess is that he is included in this and he doesn’t like the movies other than the original 3 from the 80s and 90s.
He probably sees the other 6 movies as “milking the series”, so that could be why he never intended to make many movies for Httyd.
Despite the division around the film the "who died and made you chief" joke the was funniest joke of the trilogy
I think it would have been better if the hidden world was full of other night furies and its revealed thats where they've been hiding the whole time. I still enjoyed this movie and liked the ending with how they took the risk to separate Toothless and Hiccup, but it definitely retcons the theme of the franchise.
I did not like the 3rd movie. Everything from the Light Fury being an obsessive gf to the fact that the only song I can remember from the movie is "Together from afar" compared to the last 2 movies where there were quite a few great songs.
The 3rd movie also COMPLETELY goes against the messages of the last 2 movies. I really wouldn't have minded the ending but Toothless choosing a light fury that he had known for less than a few weeks over Hiccup whom he'd been in a friendship with for 6 years just doesn't make sense.
We also didn't get an awesome flying sequence like in the first 2 movies so that was sad
I just have to agree with you. Like what?
What we’re the directors thinking?
Toothless and hiccup spent no time together at all. The ending make no sense, the movie made no sense.
Hiccups head was filled with rocks and toothless turned into a simp overnight?
Is this even a Httyd movie, was that even toothless?
My main issue is that finally, we had a movie that said that the power of friendship can be just as strong and deep as a romantic attraction. In the 3rd movie, Hiccup is essentially cock blocking toothless and that seems just so wrong.
Also, light fury. It looks like a deviantart original character
Wdym hiccup is cockblocking toothless?
Imagine if people were so worried about bird conservation that they gathered up every bird in the world and put them in a hole. That's what the ending of this movie is.
That actually made me chuckle ngl
Still remember when I came out of the cinema and thought “well damn, I hated this.”
I just pretend Hidden World never happened
It’s genius
'cause you're a HTTYD 2 Fan boy
@@dragozillasaur813 how? Many people just didn’t like this movie and weren’t satisfied with how this franchise ended.
@@GoodMan-rf8mz Not Everyone is, but alot of people think the opposite of that
@@dragozillasaur813 that is true, but since the movie came out the group of people that have problems/don’t like the movie, has grown.
do the same thing with kung fu panda 3 i also don't get why people think it's bad
KFP 3 is considered a letdown by a few people as a lot of people don't like how the movie focuses a lot on comedy and how it interrupts a lot of the dramatic and emotional moments, it's also criticized for Po not being the same mature Po we saw in the 2nd film and the Furious Five not having a major role is a common criticism too. The villain Kai is considered a disappointment by many as a lot of people feel he's too comedic and not as menacing as Lord Shen was in the 2nd movie.
Personally I love the 3rd Kung Fu Panda, I don't think it's as good as the 2nd one and I have a few problems but regardless I still think it's a very good movie.
What is said above summes it up. It is almost a parody of the first two and their portrait of Po. I swear, Po has to learn to be confident all over again... and it's a procession of dumb jokes diluting the already poor drama and emotial conflict.
@@leeobrien2004Yup I think the third movie doesn't deserve a lot of hate too, tbh I think they still portrayed Kai as a villain to test Po in a spiritual way tho my problems with his character they treated him like a joke most of the time making him unserious and clumsy when battling Po
Maybe instead of 'a hidden world' maybe 'a new world.' because that's what it seems like the story is all about at least to me
I remember watching this film and being all: Eh...guess that happened....oh well.
For me, what this film (and 2) did wrong was completely drop all character development and world-building from the shows. You’d think they’d call for help from the Outcasts or Berserkers when being attacked by Drago or Grimmel, but nooooo, they cannot call for help from tribes known for their ferocity and combat strength because they didn’t exist in the movies. You’d think my boy Snotlout would be supportive of Hiccup’s leadership after learning what it takes to be a leader and growing to respect Hiccup over the course of all three shows, but noooooooooooo, we need to revert his character development so we can have the “Who died and made you chief?” gag. You’d think Ruffnut would be able to tell if she was being followed, considering she was able to correctly point out that there was a traitor amidst the riders purely based on an ambush as well as hold her own against Viggo himself, but nooooooo, we need Grimmel to find the hooligans, so we turn Ruffnut into a goddamn moron. See what my problem is? They completely forget what made these characters awesome in the shows.
This entire movie was essentially a elongated copy paste of the Pokémon episode "Bye-bye Butterfree" where Ashs Butterfree finds love and he has to let it go, but somehow worse. The homecoming/homegoing scenes are even the same:
Ashs Butterfree and the other Butterfree migrate to there homeland, but gives one look back before he flies off
Toothless and the rest of there dragons migrate to there homeland, but he gives one look back before he flies off
The httyd series was never all that original (not saying its bad because of this tho) but come on.
The younger me keeps the current me from hating this film, but they could've did so, so much better.
*I really HOPE this movie ages poorly*
Yes please
I hope someone could make this even better