That's why HEMA practitioners SHOULD go to war with one another using lethal weapons in a fight to the death like back then! Those who survive will become stronger and those who don't, die.
@@j.enzinas With that mindset no wonder HEMA is the way it is That's why by doing this then you'll live life to the fullest and train earnestly instead of half-baked. Your skills will improve if you did lol
For real, now usually the guy who complain about competition is the dead of HEMA is the guy who don't even train it. Like i have seen alot of people complaining about using Fleche in Longsword is "unrealistic" and "don't work in real historical fights", or rapierist doing jumping attacks similar to Olympic fencing. Dig a bit deeper and it turns out they have never held a sword before
I have honestly never seen anyone say a fleche doesn't belong in longsword, only people saying there are people claiming so. A fleche is just a normal thrust with a passing step, that's literally one of the basic ways of thrusting with a longsword.
absolutely! jank tricks and minmaxing are a time honored tradition in all competition across all human history: warfare and personal fights are no exception
@@penttikoivuniemi2146 you would be surprised when looking at comments about Antoni Olbrychski fencing to where he used alot of fleche. "Too one dimensional, no historical technique, too much Olympic fencing influences....." and so on
You can use fleche and shit, but it's not secure I'd say (especially since should I get stuck during the process without instantly killing him, I'll be pretty exposed). Like, "all-in" does work in high-stakes poker, but I wouldn't abuse it if my life was at stake. Therefore, while being a good technique, I wouldn't use it more than once if I was fencing without the protectors and a sharp sword. Make a chart in game theory and you'll get that betting 300x high-risk-high-reward is dangerous af (sharp sword), but no-risk-high-reward is genuinly great (tournament). I think, it's quite realistic and I bet fencers across the historical period abused it... in tournaments. Most of classical HEMA content, however, is usually centered around the context of self-defence (literally the word "fencing" comes from defence, at least according to wiki). So the question starts with what do you consider HEMA and ends with "if you design tournaments like people do, no wonder it works rather well". Imagine a tournament with "one hit - exit tournament" and you'll find those people probably reliably winning through coin flip (as 50% death chance is shit). But then again, would such tournament measure the skill of it's players sufficiently? Would it make fun to make a 300km drive just to end up being killed in your first or second round to a dumbfuck double-hit-noob, who tanked your first hit in the head and then touched you slightly on the shoulders? How do you discriminate lethal and non-lethal hits? How do you measure them? Even with video slow-mo-replay from three different angles, it's hard to be fair. Then you start wondering, how realistic it is to use protective equipment, since psychologically you fear the enemies weapon more if you face it with real consequences (metal panel in the face it hurts af in comparison to having nice gambeson and helmet). So what? Are we going to do HEMA-tournaments in the hospital yard now? This can get out of hand pretty fast. Somebody please write a paper about game theory and HEMA-Tournaments-Design, for I am too lazy rn to do it. As for my experience, I've done a super-cinematic kill in a tournament by sliding under the enemies blade once. It looked super cool and I was secure - and I'm 300% sure it happened at least once historically due to slippery grass after the rain. As for "all-in-thrust"? Yes, and it works rather well (if you do it right) - and you can be sure it has been used in "real fights" as well (Sturzhauw is a real thing as well and it's not really the most secure thing either). I just think it wasn't being abused as it is in the tournaments rn, since it's not exactly realiable if you gamble your life. All in all, I think we should design tournaments healthier to make people value their lifes higher and thus have a better quality control loop for ourselves (and a more interesting Meta), but I absolutely agree that bitching around "HiStoRicAl aCcUrAcY" is one of the most toxic things you'll encounter around HEMA. You guessed it, mostly it's people who either don't do HEMA or keep getting destroyed in tournaments - coping hard with their failures. You wanna be better than that? Get gud and learn parrying/indes it. It's not like there are is any magical superaction out there, that has no counteraction.
I agree, I think the majority have finally adopted the idea of mixed martial arts into their personal techniques. I hate to say it, but the biggest problem I have had in the last several years has been organizing training during the "illness" and lack of physical fitness in new & returning students. Why on earth so many cannot understand the necessity of fitness just boggles my mind.
I find the problem with Hema is no varied weapon sparring. Long sword vs Long sword, sword & buckler vs Sword & buckler, Poleaxe vs Poleaxe et cetera with not say a quarterstaff vs longsword as one example. Like most modern recreation of historical combat they end up ridged lacking any basic common sense or initiative. Safety is one thing but rules for rules sake being up your Aris is notable problem in any & all competition combat sports.
The people who complains for getting away using "non historical", "not in the treatises" techniques, I wonder if they ever asked themselves what would the masters in ye olde days say if they see their pupils coming out victorious from a duel using something they weren't tought. Hey, it's success what matters, guys!!!
Anyone who said xyz does not happened in historical combat are either 1. trying to make themselves look smart or 2. Someone who don't know what they're talking about. The stuffs written in the manuscripts are just one guy's opinion about how fights would happen in his favor, and sometime one guy even conflicted with another guy's opinion about which is the best way to fight. There's this quote I really like but forgot who said it. "There's nothing new under the sun", especially when it comes to martial arts. Techniques that we thought we invented, stuffs that we think that people would not do in a real fight, probably happened in some random by some random guy hundred of years ago
@@jaketheasianguy3307 If we can be sure about one thing, it's people argued about who's the coolest-smartest-best not only since cain and able. So I guarantee we had the same discussions 850 years ago - just about "tHiS iS mOrE eFFeCtiVe", "I Am mAsTeR" and "BuT i CaN HiT YoU oN ThE otHeR sidE, yoU MoRoN". The answer was however rather easy to obtain: double-hit-kill right in front of the tavern due to drunk self-assurance. Unfortunatelly, we don't have the method of natural selection in the repertoire anymore.
@@daxasd3270 yes, every master was trying to sell their teachings, and this is something we don't seem to remember, teaching swordsmanship to nobles and knights was obviously profitable, and if you gained the favour of a V.I.P. from back in the day you were suddenly an influential character. For example, Angelo Viggiani from Bologna wrote his fencing manuscript for emperor Charles V from the HRE.
Since my first years doing my best to learn HEMA on my own to this day, your videos have been a source of inspiration and learning. Your academy does such an incredible job, and I hope it continues to be great success it is.
So happy for you guys - and I hope I can come visit someday. You have been a major inspiration for me becoming a fulltime HEMA instructor and I am incredibly grateful for your trailblazing. Keep up the good work!!!
Glad to hear it and best of luck with the new ventures, new classes and new members. Take all the time you need and hope to catch a class or two of yours one day in the future.
I know you just picked the title to f**k with the algorithm, but if there is a problem with HEMA, it's one of appearance, or popular perception. Poking one's head above the parapet into HEMAbook and there's plenty of people who 'train to fight like a knight' and like to whitter on about warrior culture and martial effectiveness- probably in between complaining about the colour of the Gnomes in the TV adaptation of the Worm Ouroboros or whatever. It's not a great look. What's needed is more clean, open training spaces, with a variety of teaching styles to suit a variety of learners, and acknowledgement that different people have different motivations as well, whether historical research, competition, or just fitness and fun. Thankfully your recent photos highlight this- yes, there's the typical 'dad bods with questionable facial hair' and 'amazonian goddesses' but there's also all sorts between those two extremes, and if anyone's carrying any idealizations about the past and the merits of violence, then those are left at the door.
As a guy with (charitably) a dad bod and questionable facial hair, who is looking into starting HEMA... am I really that much of a predictable stereotype?
@@Smeelio a bit yes. If you srsly try getting gud, you'll surely make the dad bod more adonis-like, while your facial hair will not be as pleasant under the fencing mask in the long run. So go for it anyway :)
Wow... It's so AMAZING to hear that you guys have grown up... As you say... I found all these UA-cam hema type channels maybe 2 years ago now.. and I remember all the bickerings of what is Hema . GATEKEEPING... blah blah... Everyone just arguing... And I have been watching things progress.. It's amazing to see and hear, that it all worked itself out in the end... I'd say the Entire Hema community have learned a lot. And have Grown Exponentially. Also... I totally get it.. if I was really into Hema and the life. Yeah... I would also probably be someone who would have been called a gatekeeper... In some way at least. So I totally understand the want. The desire. And how it would feel. But. I'm glad... INTUITION... Has been worked into the definition of Hema as well. Good on everyone.
It’s a shame my country(Brazil) doesn’t have a lot of HEMA it’s very localized in a couple of citys here and the training with European weapons is not a common thing, unarmed martial arts are far more common and I practice many of them myself together with a strength training program and while I do have a lot of saber fencing training passed down to me from my grandfather and even with the historical archery I practice I do think my weapons skill is fairly lacking compared to my unarmed skills with BJJ, boxing,karate and Muay Thai(currently training these) and the past systems I’ve trained like Judo,taekwondo and kali were also great, I just wish more fencing and longsword schools would open I love polearm and their schools but I find it very much hard for one of those to open in the near future. Man I wish we had more HEMA here. I WANNA TRAIN MORE
London sword academy you people are an insperation to any martial arts school, keep ut up and the highest respect to all martial artists out there in the world 🤺
I just unfollowed a HEMA channel on UA-cam a few months ago for saying exactly what you claim people don't say anymore, so I think you may be too optimistic about this 😂 but at least this video proves I kept following the right channel
Competition is extremely important to get fighters to meet new opponents from all over, see fights live and pressure test what they have learned with stakes and find their own weak spots. Can you use everything you have learned in the manuscript and be competitive? Probably not and hand sniping is an annoying tendency in longsword promoting odd behavior on the mat and boring as hell to watch but on the flip-side it teaches you to watch those hands and if the loss does not teach you the pain does.
Man, wish I could see your school! Flying across the pond every night of the week is a little cost prohibitive though alas. All those classes sound amazing!
I think you missed an obvious answer: The problem with HEMA is that there are not enough hours in a day to do it all.
Or years in a lifetime.:) Yes, you are completely correct:)
Hear, hear!
That's why HEMA practitioners SHOULD go to war with one another using lethal weapons in a fight to the death like back then!
Those who survive will become stronger and those who don't, die.
@@vincentlee7359 If i'm dead, I can't learn more kinds of HEMA.
@@j.enzinas With that mindset no wonder HEMA is the way it is
That's why by doing this then you'll live life to the fullest and train earnestly instead of half-baked. Your skills will improve if you did lol
1:03 Damn, that woman looks badass. You legit need to put some promotional video with her doing drills, she looks like a fantasy warrior.
simp
For real, now usually the guy who complain about competition is the dead of HEMA is the guy who don't even train it. Like i have seen alot of people complaining about using Fleche in Longsword is "unrealistic" and "don't work in real historical fights", or rapierist doing jumping attacks similar to Olympic fencing. Dig a bit deeper and it turns out they have never held a sword before
I have honestly never seen anyone say a fleche doesn't belong in longsword, only people saying there are people claiming so. A fleche is just a normal thrust with a passing step, that's literally one of the basic ways of thrusting with a longsword.
absolutely!
jank tricks and minmaxing are a time honored tradition in all competition across all human history: warfare and personal fights are no exception
@@penttikoivuniemi2146 you would be surprised when looking at comments about Antoni Olbrychski fencing to where he used alot of fleche. "Too one dimensional, no historical technique, too much Olympic fencing influences....." and so on
You can use fleche and shit, but it's not secure I'd say (especially since should I get stuck during the process without instantly killing him, I'll be pretty exposed).
Like, "all-in" does work in high-stakes poker, but I wouldn't abuse it if my life was at stake. Therefore, while being a good technique, I wouldn't use it more than once if I was fencing without the protectors and a sharp sword. Make a chart in game theory and you'll get that betting 300x high-risk-high-reward is dangerous af (sharp sword), but no-risk-high-reward is genuinly great (tournament).
I think, it's quite realistic and I bet fencers across the historical period abused it... in tournaments. Most of classical HEMA content, however, is usually centered around the context of self-defence (literally the word "fencing" comes from defence, at least according to wiki). So the question starts with what do you consider HEMA and ends with "if you design tournaments like people do, no wonder it works rather well".
Imagine a tournament with "one hit - exit tournament" and you'll find those people probably reliably winning through coin flip (as 50% death chance is shit). But then again, would such tournament measure the skill of it's players sufficiently? Would it make fun to make a 300km drive just to end up being killed in your first or second round to a dumbfuck double-hit-noob, who tanked your first hit in the head and then touched you slightly on the shoulders? How do you discriminate lethal and non-lethal hits? How do you measure them? Even with video slow-mo-replay from three different angles, it's hard to be fair. Then you start wondering, how realistic it is to use protective equipment, since psychologically you fear the enemies weapon more if you face it with real consequences (metal panel in the face it hurts af in comparison to having nice gambeson and helmet). So what? Are we going to do HEMA-tournaments in the hospital yard now? This can get out of hand pretty fast.
Somebody please write a paper about game theory and HEMA-Tournaments-Design, for I am too lazy rn to do it.
As for my experience, I've done a super-cinematic kill in a tournament by sliding under the enemies blade once. It looked super cool and I was secure - and I'm 300% sure it happened at least once historically due to slippery grass after the rain. As for "all-in-thrust"? Yes, and it works rather well (if you do it right) - and you can be sure it has been used in "real fights" as well (Sturzhauw is a real thing as well and it's not really the most secure thing either). I just think it wasn't being abused as it is in the tournaments rn, since it's not exactly realiable if you gamble your life.
All in all, I think we should design tournaments healthier to make people value their lifes higher and thus have a better quality control loop for ourselves (and a more interesting Meta), but I absolutely agree that bitching around "HiStoRicAl aCcUrAcY" is one of the most toxic things you'll encounter around HEMA. You guessed it, mostly it's people who either don't do HEMA or keep getting destroyed in tournaments - coping hard with their failures. You wanna be better than that? Get gud and learn parrying/indes it. It's not like there are is any magical superaction out there, that has no counteraction.
@@penttikoivuniemi2146 Is there a source for it in longsword?
First 4 minutes are some advertisment for his school.
The problem with Hema is at @4:01
So Click-Bait
I agree, I think the majority have finally adopted the idea of mixed martial arts into their personal techniques. I hate to say it, but the biggest problem I have had in the last several years has been organizing training during the "illness" and lack of physical fitness in new & returning students. Why on earth so many cannot understand the necessity of fitness just boggles my mind.
Makes me wish I lived in the greater London area. Trying to figure out how to pick this up in Roanoke Virgina.
I find the problem with Hema is no varied weapon sparring.
Long sword vs Long sword, sword & buckler vs Sword & buckler, Poleaxe vs Poleaxe et cetera with not say a quarterstaff vs longsword as one example.
Like most modern recreation of historical combat they end up ridged lacking any basic common sense or initiative.
Safety is one thing but rules for rules sake being up your Aris is notable problem in any & all competition combat sports.
The people who complains for getting away using "non historical", "not in the treatises" techniques, I wonder if they ever asked themselves what would the masters in ye olde days say if they see their pupils coming out victorious from a duel using something they weren't tought. Hey, it's success what matters, guys!!!
Anyone who said xyz does not happened in historical combat are either
1. trying to make themselves look smart
or 2. Someone who don't know what they're talking about.
The stuffs written in the manuscripts are just one guy's opinion about how fights would happen in his favor, and sometime one guy even conflicted with another guy's opinion about which is the best way to fight.
There's this quote I really like but forgot who said it. "There's nothing new under the sun", especially when it comes to martial arts. Techniques that we thought we invented, stuffs that we think that people would not do in a real fight, probably happened in some random by some random guy hundred of years ago
@@jaketheasianguy3307 If we can be sure about one thing, it's people argued about who's the coolest-smartest-best not only since cain and able. So I guarantee we had the same discussions 850 years ago - just about "tHiS iS mOrE eFFeCtiVe", "I Am mAsTeR" and "BuT i CaN HiT YoU oN ThE otHeR sidE, yoU MoRoN".
The answer was however rather easy to obtain: double-hit-kill right in front of the tavern due to drunk self-assurance. Unfortunatelly, we don't have the method of natural selection in the repertoire anymore.
@@daxasd3270 yes, every master was trying to sell their teachings, and this is something we don't seem to remember, teaching swordsmanship to nobles and knights was obviously profitable, and if you gained the favour of a V.I.P. from back in the day you were suddenly an influential character. For example, Angelo Viggiani from Bologna wrote his fencing manuscript for emperor Charles V from the HRE.
Oh I wish I was able to access your classes.
Since my first years doing my best to learn HEMA on my own to this day, your videos have been a source of inspiration and learning. Your academy does such an incredible job, and I hope it continues to be great success it is.
Why not take your teachings to Broadwater Farm, Fam? Give sumfing back to De Man Dem?
So happy for you guys - and I hope I can come visit someday. You have been a major inspiration for me becoming a fulltime HEMA instructor and I am incredibly grateful for your trailblazing. Keep up the good work!!!
Glad to hear it and best of luck with the new ventures, new classes and new members.
Take all the time you need and hope to catch a class or two of yours one day in the future.
I know you just picked the title to f**k with the algorithm, but if there is a problem with HEMA, it's one of appearance, or popular perception. Poking one's head above the parapet into HEMAbook and there's plenty of people who 'train to fight like a knight' and like to whitter on about warrior culture and martial effectiveness- probably in between complaining about the colour of the Gnomes in the TV adaptation of the Worm Ouroboros or whatever. It's not a great look.
What's needed is more clean, open training spaces, with a variety of teaching styles to suit a variety of learners, and acknowledgement that different people have different motivations as well, whether historical research, competition, or just fitness and fun. Thankfully your recent photos highlight this- yes, there's the typical 'dad bods with questionable facial hair' and 'amazonian goddesses' but there's also all sorts between those two extremes, and if anyone's carrying any idealizations about the past and the merits of violence, then those are left at the door.
As a guy with (charitably) a dad bod and questionable facial hair, who is looking into starting HEMA... am I really that much of a predictable stereotype?
@@Smeelio a bit yes. If you srsly try getting gud, you'll surely make the dad bod more adonis-like, while your facial hair will not be as pleasant under the fencing mask in the long run. So go for it anyway :)
Quite a way to say "I was wrong, I've grown up and now I get it"
Really quite refreshing to hear that thought at the end.
Wow... It's so AMAZING to hear that you guys have grown up... As you say...
I found all these UA-cam hema type channels maybe 2 years ago now.. and I remember all the bickerings of what is Hema . GATEKEEPING... blah blah... Everyone just arguing... And I have been watching things progress..
It's amazing to see and hear, that it all worked itself out in the end... I'd say the Entire Hema community have learned a lot. And have Grown Exponentially.
Also... I totally get it.. if I was really into Hema and the life. Yeah... I would also probably be someone who would have been called a gatekeeper... In some way at least.
So I totally understand the want. The desire. And how it would feel.
But. I'm glad... INTUITION... Has been worked into the definition of Hema as well.
Good on everyone.
It’s a shame my country(Brazil) doesn’t have a lot of HEMA it’s very localized in a couple of citys here and the training with European weapons is not a common thing, unarmed martial arts are far more common and I practice many of them myself together with a strength training program and while I do have a lot of saber fencing training passed down to me from my grandfather and even with the historical archery I practice I do think my weapons skill is fairly lacking compared to my unarmed skills with BJJ, boxing,karate and Muay Thai(currently training these) and the past systems I’ve trained like Judo,taekwondo and kali were also great, I just wish more fencing and longsword schools would open I love polearm and their schools but I find it very much hard for one of those to open in the near future.
Man I wish we had more HEMA here. I WANNA TRAIN MORE
London sword academy you people are an insperation to any martial arts school, keep ut up and the highest respect to all martial artists out there in the world 🤺
I just unfollowed a HEMA channel on UA-cam a few months ago for saying exactly what you claim people don't say anymore, so I think you may be too optimistic about this 😂 but at least this video proves I kept following the right channel
Which channel if I may ask?
Please name the channel so other people can be aware as well
At first this was almost sounding like an advertisement, but yes, I agree in general.
Glade you guys are doing well.
Perks of living in London: 1)LLA 2)Being close to the king 3)Financial Center...
Very interesting sentiments 🤔Talking about the first minute and four seconds that is. The rest is a blurr. Not sure where my mind went.
Competition is extremely important to get fighters to meet new opponents from all over, see fights live and pressure test what they have learned with stakes and find their own weak spots. Can you use everything you have learned in the manuscript and be competitive? Probably not and hand sniping is an annoying tendency in longsword promoting odd behavior on the mat and boring as hell to watch but on the flip-side it teaches you to watch those hands and if the loss does not teach you the pain does.
Well that was a clickbait,
I've been following the channel for a while and was wondering if you have ever considered running an under 18 class?
Watch this space. At the moment it’s 16 and over, unless accompanied by a guardian.:)
@@LondonLongsword Oh! Nice! I'm 17 and have been doing HEMA since I was 14. Would I be able to show up to any of the classes?
Wow, so many different styles & classes! London Longsword Academy sounds incredible
Since it's a rather long commute from Ohio... you, REALLY, need to do more DVD's!
Obsessio is still one of my all time favourites!
Thank you:)
@Damien Alexander Come visit us at Columbus Saber Academy, we'd love to have you!
Man, wish I could see your school! Flying across the pond every night of the week is a little cost prohibitive though alas. All those classes sound amazing!
The problem with HEMA is that I don't get to visit Europe every year ☹️
At least one visit in the LLA is on my bucket list.
The problem with HEMA is that we need more people
Lady vera.. is a exceptionally naturally beautiful women... Wow..
You wear fine things well .
This is gonna spark a war 😱
scoring, gate keepers, alternatives
I wish I lived in London...
Just don't go electric for cut and thrust weapons and hema will be fine.
Busy!
*moves to London*
well said
Nice video but I was expecting some drama😚
Oh it’s bound to piss someone off😂
@@LondonLongsword btw, sound is a bit low ;)
@@dietrichv ack, damnit
Your not doing hema you are doing analysis of hema .