Hi Roy, the holes in the track is for bolts that join the track sections together with a splice plate. Track size differ in height and weight as per usage. I believe track is measured by pounds per foot. Also the crown is there to help in guiding the cars around the curves. 🤔🚂
The surface of used rail will probably have micro fractures. I would think that the torch cut end would have no affect, main line sections are thermite welded together
Do it Roy, try hardening, see what it will do! Myself and my brother liberated a short section of track from a pile at and old railroad workshop that been turned to a museum about 30 years ago!
🤔🤔😶🤔 being as the edge is a little softer than the center, of the modern track, work hardening from all the railcar wheels that ran over it comes to mind 🤔🤔🤔
Now I need to get Rockwell test kit. Got a piece of track about 20 yrs ago. Mostly just used as weight for welding. I'm few months away from mu first forge.
Rail is rated by the weight per yard. The holes in the rail are from the end of the rail length where the fish plates or joint bars connected the next rail section with 4 or 6 bolts. Traditional US rail from the late 19th thru the 20th century were 39 foot sections. Why you ask? Because that was the length you could carry on a gondola car. Today many railroads use continuous welded rain (CWR) called ribbon rail.
Tracks are replaced once they are below 40 Rockwell hardness for main and secondary track but shipped factory hardness of 55 or better and spurs or "125" below 20 factory hardness of 40 to 50 rockwell
The center of any track that was used extensively will naturally be harder in the center from all of the train wheels running over it and work hardening it. So, obviously, a more accurate test would be on the side, or bottom.
There is a 950 and higher made but only for a few dedicated heavy haul military tracks for 1960 missile decommissioning tracks and other specialties commonly only found on military sites
But can you harden a modern railroad track? And the track with the 2 holes in it all that is where they jointed track with another track, Most mainline track these days are thermite welded together.
All the examples I recall place crane rails on W beams. W beams are kinda like I beams only the top and bottom flange width is close to the web height. The rails are continously supported by the structural steel beams because rails are not 'structural' members. So, I would expect rails to be tough and flexible but not stiff or hard (no pun intended).
I can promis that there are some made heavier guage so they would be stronger, and where it was some will be more work hardened then others especially if it came from a main line vs a branchline.
Thats some big mining rail! but that little curve att he end is pretty indicative of the trade (it wouldnt do much to stop a full sized railcar). Most mining rail was tiny in comparison as to be easier to bend and shape to the tight tunnel passages underground. Steven White mentioned it, but railroad track has been measured by the weight per yard for most of rail history. Back in the mid-late 1800's, a common size was about 53 pounds per yard, and was pretty small stuff! nowadays, most freight lines have been updated to 136 PPY. The one piece youve got there with the holes in it is from the end of a stick where joint bars (AKA fish plates) would have joined two stick together. Once upon a time, a stick of rail was manufactured to be around 33 feet long, but modern thermite jointing allows a singlew piece of track to be as long or short as the rail needs. That being said, if they ever had to repair a section of track or replace a stick, sometimes they had to be cut to length before being installed, so I would reckon some section gang had to cut their stick 10" shorter to fit some piece somewhere on the line. Or, they had to cut a piece to length for making a switch, as those had many diffrerent lengths to achieve standard geometry for the type of switch they were building.
I am wondering with the pitting and corrosion on those smaller tracks if they could of had the same surface hardness at some point? Unfortunately with the elements the old surface hardness rusted away. Have you tried forge welding to rail track sections? I have a piece I was thinking of adding to for mass on the sides and maybe a piece of harder steel on the top. It will be my make due anvil till I can find one I can afford
From what I have been told there are 3 modern tracks a 125 with the 2 holes and yes holes are for splice plate used for spurs and loading areas 250 most track for local areas track only and 350 which is all travel track the number refers to the weight per 3 foot section. I have pieces of each 250 and 350 and from what I have heard only the top 1/2" lighter tracks to 1" on a 350 are hardened but over the expected 20 to 30 year life surface factory hardening softens and only work hardening remains
Good video very information something I've been wanting to ask you the new Forge that you going to be building out of stone is there any books on how to do it and if so where can I get them just curious if you know
@@ChristCenteredIronworks Thank you. I just subbed a couple of weeks ago and I am slowly working my way through your playlist. A few years back the company I work for bought a 20 ft piece of track to use for internal projects and I was surprised at how easily it was cut on a band saw. I had always thought it would have had some hardening done to it but like you had stated it needs to flex under the load of the rail cars. I can see how it would get case hardened after years of trains running on it. Probably why they replace the track after a certain amount of usage. Thanks again.
Roy, nothing to do with the Track pieces! Just wanted to say thank you for the air-powered Monkey tool Idea. It's working great on the guardrail stairway balustrades tenon ends, 😁😆, sure is speeding up the process with twenty-some-odd ones to create!
When it comes to modern rail you may want to look up a name... Fine man and a great blacksmith, who you may have encountered while attending The Four State Fair. Finin Liam Christie or as he likes to introduce himself Blacksmith From Ireland. Awarded by ABANA if Im not mistaken. Great man, finest traditional blacksmith and stunning teacher. Was contracted by The Irish Rail for many years, taught by their rail college before and propably largest forearms I have ever seen not belonging to a professional bodybuilder 😏
Yeah, It’s pretty hard to come by a good size piece. Best tip is to have a look out for a RR maintenance crew and see if they can be nice and cut up a piece for yah.
Hi Roy, the holes in the track is for bolts that join the track sections together with a splice plate.
Track size differ in height and weight as per usage. I believe track is measured by pounds per foot. Also the crown is there to help in guiding the cars around the curves. 🤔🚂
The surface of used rail will probably have micro fractures. I would think that the torch cut end would have no affect, main line sections are thermite welded together
Roy very nice and very informational video this week. Forge On. God bless.
Seeing as hot steel is soft, mild steel anvils should work fine if your not in a hurry. 👍👍
Even though I could barely see the scratches, being able to hear the file skating was helpful.
Glad that helped at least 🙂
Do it Roy, try hardening, see what it will do! Myself and my brother liberated a short section of track from a pile at and
old railroad workshop that been turned to a museum about 30 years ago!
I May have interesting results
That last one looks like a piece that I have in my shop. I always assumed it was a trolly track for a warehouse, mine or something like that.
Cool I wonder if it would come out the same
🤔🤔😶🤔 being as the edge is a little softer than the center, of the modern track, work hardening from all the railcar wheels that ran over it comes to mind 🤔🤔🤔
Fingers crossed you get to 1000 likes. That would be an interesting experiment. Thanks for what you do!
Thank you and thanks for watching
Pretty informative, I thought there would be differences and now I know.
Informative as always roy, great test
Now I need to get Rockwell test kit.
Got a piece of track about 20 yrs ago.
Mostly just used as weight for welding.
I'm few months away from mu first forge.
Definitely worth the investment ☺️
The question I have is not if the railroad track is already hard, but can it be hardened through quenching?
Yes of course it you could do that
Actually the audio software seemed soften the hammer strikes. I had earbuds in at normal volume and it wasn't bad
Thanks Roy, have a great weekend 👍
Noooo! But I'll hear your explanation
Rail is rated by the weight per yard. The holes in the rail are from the end of the rail length where the fish plates or joint bars connected the next rail section with 4 or 6 bolts. Traditional US rail from the late 19th thru the 20th century were 39 foot sections. Why you ask? Because that was the length you could carry on a gondola car. Today many railroads use continuous welded rain (CWR) called ribbon rail.
Thank you for this information ☺️
Tracks are replaced once they are below 40 Rockwell hardness for main and secondary track but shipped factory hardness of 55 or better and spurs or "125" below 20 factory hardness of 40 to 50 rockwell
The center of any track that was used extensively will naturally be harder in the center from all of the train wheels running over it and work hardening it. So, obviously, a more accurate test would be on the side, or bottom.
There is a 950 and higher made but only for a few dedicated heavy haul military tracks for 1960 missile decommissioning tracks and other specialties commonly only found on military sites
But can you harden a modern railroad track? And the track with the 2 holes in it all that is where they jointed track with another track, Most mainline track these days are thermite welded together.
In Weyger's book, "The Complete Modern Blacksmith", I think he makes a rail anvil and hardens it.
Holes could be a way to to load and unload rail sections for the rail crane/ tie tamper/
Could you quench one to harden it? Is there enough carbon to harden?
All the examples I recall place crane rails on W beams. W beams are kinda like I beams only the top and bottom flange width is close to the web height.
The rails are continously supported by the structural steel beams because rails are not 'structural' members. So, I would expect rails to be tough and flexible but not stiff or hard (no pun intended).
Thank you for the information 🙂
I just got a 3 foot piece of algowa rr track . Seems to be 1084 with some manganese added
I can promis that there are some made heavier guage so they would be stronger, and where it was some will be more work hardened then others especially if it came from a main line vs a branchline.
That's a great point
Thats some big mining rail! but that little curve att he end is pretty indicative of the trade (it wouldnt do much to stop a full sized railcar). Most mining rail was tiny in comparison as to be easier to bend and shape to the tight tunnel passages underground. Steven White mentioned it, but railroad track has been measured by the weight per yard for most of rail history. Back in the mid-late 1800's, a common size was about 53 pounds per yard, and was pretty small stuff! nowadays, most freight lines have been updated to 136 PPY. The one piece youve got there with the holes in it is from the end of a stick where joint bars (AKA fish plates) would have joined two stick together. Once upon a time, a stick of rail was manufactured to be around 33 feet long, but modern thermite jointing allows a singlew piece of track to be as long or short as the rail needs. That being said, if they ever had to repair a section of track or replace a stick, sometimes they had to be cut to length before being installed, so I would reckon some section gang had to cut their stick 10" shorter to fit some piece somewhere on the line. Or, they had to cut a piece to length for making a switch, as those had many diffrerent lengths to achieve standard geometry for the type of switch they were building.
Also, the wrought is interesting, but most modern rail is near 1084, although the companies do a good job not telling you what it is.
Great video I enjoyed it well done sir
Thank you brother 😊
I am wondering with the pitting and corrosion on those smaller tracks if they could of had the same surface hardness at some point? Unfortunately with the elements the old surface hardness rusted away. Have you tried forge welding to rail track sections? I have a piece I was thinking of adding to for mass on the sides and maybe a piece of harder steel on the top. It will be my make due anvil till I can find one I can afford
A very interesting test!
I actually made my own anvil from mild steel and it does suffer, a bit, especially on the edge.
Isn't there a Thomas the train?🤣 thank you for all of your work. 👏👏🤞🙏
This Thomas is rolling like a freight train comin on down the line ....sorry army cadence popped in my head
From what I have been told there are 3 modern tracks a 125 with the 2 holes and yes holes are for splice plate used for spurs and loading areas 250 most track for local areas track only and 350 which is all travel track the number refers to the weight per 3 foot section. I have pieces of each 250 and 350 and from what I have heard only the top 1/2" lighter tracks to 1" on a 350 are hardened but over the expected 20 to 30 year life surface factory hardening softens and only work hardening remains
Good video very information something I've been wanting to ask you the new Forge that you going to be building out of stone is there any books on how to do it and if so where can I get them just curious if you know
I don't know of any plans but I plan on sharing the journey with everyone here on UA-cam 🙂
When I Started 20+ yrs ago my 1st anvil was a piece of RR track
Sounds like a good start to me 🙂
FYI: track strength is measured by weight per yard. 110 lb. rail is medium to heavy use track.
That wrought iron track ought to be sliced up and repurposed into art! Certainly not suitable for an anvil.
That's the plan someday
Just out of curiosity have you ever used your hardness file kit on an anvil to see how hard it is?
Yes I've got a entire playlist on the subject here on UA-cam 🙂
@@ChristCenteredIronworks Thank you. I just subbed a couple of weeks ago and I am slowly working my way through your playlist. A few years back the company I work for bought a 20 ft piece of track to use for internal projects and I was surprised at how easily it was cut on a band saw. I had always thought it would have had some hardening done to it but like you had stated it needs to flex under the load of the rail cars. I can see how it would get case hardened after years of trains running on it. Probably why they replace the track after a certain amount of usage. Thanks again.
Roy, nothing to do with the Track pieces! Just wanted to say thank you for the air-powered Monkey tool Idea. It's working great on the guardrail stairway balustrades tenon ends, 😁😆, sure is speeding up the process with twenty-some-odd ones to create!
This according to CSX rail setting engineers and Southern Pacific rail setting engineers
How would you cut a hardy hole into the railroad track with just hand tools drills and hole saws no boring tools
When it comes to modern rail you may want to look up a name...
Fine man and a great blacksmith, who you may have encountered while attending The Four State Fair.
Finin Liam Christie or as he likes to introduce himself Blacksmith From Ireland.
Awarded by ABANA if Im not mistaken.
Great man, finest traditional blacksmith and stunning teacher.
Was contracted by The Irish Rail for many years, taught by their rail college before and propably largest forearms I have ever seen not belonging to a professional bodybuilder 😏
Only the top 1/2" to 1" has any real amount carbon to harden below that only medium to low carbon
Where would one be able to find some railroad track good video
Yeah, It’s pretty hard to come by a good size piece. Best tip is to have a look out for a RR maintenance crew and see if they can be nice and cut up a piece for yah.