The problem with Smash Bros' MOST EXPECTED newcomer
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- Опубліковано 7 тра 2024
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Everyone is expecting Octolings from Splatoon to join the Super Smash Bros roster in the next game, but would they really work?
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0:00 - Intro
3:08 - History of Octolings
4:26 - Why they're expected for Smash
5:15 - The problem
7:48 - Potential solutions
10:03 - Conclusion
10:46 - Outro, consider subscribing! :)
#supersmashbros #smashbros #splatoon3
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Music used:
All songs used come from the original Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
1 - "Player Make" (Splatoon)
2 - "Inkopolis Tutorial" (Splatoon)
3 - Music provided by sponsor
4 - "Octo Valley (Area 1-5)" (Splatoon)
5 - "Octo Eight-Step" (Splatoon 2)
6 - "Shooting Starfish" (Splatoon 2)
7 - "Whirlpool Tune" (Splatoon 3)
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Footage:
(If it's not linked, it's captured by me)
1 -Splatoon 1 playable Octarian via hacks
• Splatoon: Playable Oct... (a)
2 - Playing as Dark Pit in Kid: Icarus Uprising
• Kid Icarus: Uprising -... (MaskedMetaKnight4)
3 - Live Splatoon concert in Japan
• Splatoon 2 - Live Conc... (Nintendo)
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Sources:
1 - "Where's Enderman" images from Masahiro Sakurai
x.com/PushDustIn/status/14605...
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Special Thanks:
Lewkiss (For drawing the Octoling art on the thumbnail)
Twitter ⯈ / lewkiss40
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personally what I'd do is make ink color based on player slot. kinda like how joker's win animation has different colors for that. my only concern is if the inklings already present r distinct enough to be able to be identified regardless of color
Also the renders would have to change to match the color you're playing as. 8 alts times 8 colors equals 64 renders to create for Inkling. Now double that for Octoling.
Player 1 is displayed as red. No red for inklings
@@chrislawlor6264 probably could just stick with a base render to go off of for reference and only actually change the color in a match. i mean, it's not like you instantly know you're on the blue team the moment you queue up in splatoon, you gotta actually get into the match to know
@@virginiephuoc i didn't say it has to b the player colors specifically. was just using joker's use of it as an example
That wouldn’t work mostly cause of player expression, most matches only have 2 3 or 4 people in them so you’d basically only see orange, blue, green or yellow which means the other colours would almost never be seen at all and for a series based around fashion and expression it’d be frankly a terrible idea to lock away all half the colours like that, additionally that’d make the cpu colour gray, which would just look wrong. And the team colours overwrite the colour of the player so it’d result in having 2 orange inklings which is exactly what we’re trying to avoid. But hey who am I to criticise, ain’t like I got any better ideas for it lol
Super easy to solve:
Give the Octoling the same 8 colors, just darker and if someone picks yellow Inkling, dark yellow Octoling is not available for that match or you pick dark pink Octoling first and pink Inkling is blocked
To keep it short, the same color can't be picked by Inkling and Octoling
Yeah this would work. You don't even have to disable the color AND this would work for color blind people too due to being darker shades
How would that work with online play where you pick your alt and get matched up randomly with an inkling of the same color?
This is the way. It's like the Pauli Exclusion Principle but for Inklings.
Same way as it works when you get matched against someone using the same character and pallette as you do. They simply change the displayed pallette on your end.
@@spacewarp5850 That's why i gave Octoling a darker version
Green VS Dark Green or Orange VS Dark Orange should not be too hard to see
Ok yeah, but also we live in a world where there are 7 Sephiroth colors and I can't tell the difference for a majority of them.
Hilt of blade tehee
color for sephiroth doesn't matter but for inklings the color ink does. If I, an inkling shot yellow ink on the floor and an octoling shot slightly darker yellow ink on the floor, it would cause confusion about why i'm suddenly not running at full speed stopping my from comboing.
@@chair_2.0 There are so many scenarios where being able to tell sephiroths (or other characters with similar color palettes is important) apart are important. Here's five off the top of my head.
1. Knowing the immediate percentage of which Sephiroth you are targeting so you know what target
2. Knowing which Sephiroth is ahead so you know the priority target.
3. Knowing which Sephiroth picked up the Dragoon/ultimate weapon piece.
4. Knowing which Sephiroth is close to a final Smash
5. Knowing which Sephiroth is on your team.
I get that alot of these can be fixed by turning on outlines. It still adds more complexity which is just another thing to think about. Besides currently the only way there's ink on the ground is by using Roller. Surely its easy just to remember if you used roller recently. If they do change it so that Ink is left on the ground from all weapons, the similar ink colors will be the least of our worries.
@@chair_2.0 You can play in an arena with 4 inklings all being the same color no problem. The game doesn't prevent that.
Hell, it happens in random match making on elite smash all the time where two inklings match up vs each other with the same alt.
And its just not a problem. You already know which ink is yours and which isnt if you're paying attention. Its like two snake players fighting and remembering which C4 is yours. And thats all that matters. Your ink vs not your ink. Even if you are in an arena with 4 inklings all the same color, the other 3 are all identical to you, it doesnt matter who's ink is who's to you. It only matters which ink is yours, which you should just remember.
Again, just like how in a battle of 4 snakes, the snakes just remember which C4 is theirs. Its really no different.
And if you arent playing inkling at all, then it really doesnt matter in the slightest, since all the ink is mechanically the same to you regardless of who it came from.
To comment about the red ink you mentioned, in splatoon 3 they did actually include it in normal turf wars, it’s just a lighter shade to help deviate from the connotation with blood. Other than that I think the best solution for the octolings is to use the colors from Side Order, Splatoon 3’s dlc
plus there's often white ink in s3 splatfests
@@masterboa6321 why is white not used in normal game play can you explain
@@zachpro5475youll know once you get to middle school
@@NorthSudan I am in middle school so can you please tell me
@@zachpro5475just wait
It's laughably easy to work around this "problem." I don't think the smash team would be dumb enough to not include them for that reason alone
who are these imaginary casual players who choose eight player smash with all the same character and then are unhappy that the gameplay is chaotic and confusing isn't that the whole point? having a couple overlapping ink colors is fine as long as a two or four player game prevents you from choosing them at once, like with what team battle does with alt colors
That would be too hard
11:29 missed opportunity to say "Have an INKredible day"
Same with 3:50 when he said 'Incredible DLC'
1. Reddish pink (Agent 8)
2. Blurple (Splatoon 3 default/Shiver)
3. Light pink (Pearl/Side Order)
4. Light turquoise green (Marina/Side Order)
5. Metallic gold (Chaos)
6. Metallic silver (Order)
7. Multicolored? (Dedfish)
8. Brown (Milk Chocolate)
9. Dark green (many Splatfests)
10. Red (many Splatfests)
11. Muted salmon (Side Order)
12. Tan (White Chocolate)
13. Black/dark gray (Splatoween)
14. Dark orange (Salmon Run)
15. Dark teal (it exists)
16. Periwinkle/very light blue (it exists)
I could go on but Smash only needs eight. I think we're fine. If you're worried about Inkling getting all the iconic colors and Octoling getting all the rare ones (which actually fits in my opinion), then you can just give swap out a couple of Inkling's current alts for these.
I think just pure white and pure black could work as side order alts, tho that might make visability problems. Still, more than enough colors to make an octoling.
@@chickengaming4344Pure white is generally avoided for *connotations*, and pure black runs into the same visibility issue as Enderman when on opponents, but tinting them to become very light colours and greys would be perfectly fine.
@@dysr Yeah I feel like you can avoid the problems of color variety, visibility, and provocative imagery by just adjusting the colors a little bit. They may no longer be entirely accurate to the main thing they're referencing but they would probably still match one of the many Splatfest colors.
I think having Sanitized and Fuzzy alts could work as well!
@@pls_stap_ That would be super cool! I wish I'd thought of that
2 suggestions on how to make octolings work.
1. Octolings can use splatfest varient colors that are often used (with some exceptions due to reasons) this allows certain new colors being allowed and also gives some cool references.
2. Instead of being a normal echo fighter, it serves as an AMAZING opportunity to reference splatoon 2 and 3 while keeping inkling with the splatoon 1 moveset. That way we have representatives for all the splatoon games and it could lead to some interesting differences
Yeah, instead of using the splattershot as their main weapon, they could use something like the brella or splatana
Using brella, dualies, stringers, and splatanas would be so cool. They could also use the octoshot and octobrush as a heavy version to replace splattershot and inkbrush.
nautilus 47 as a neutral instead of splattershot with hitstun and the ability to hold it as a punish for players who try to hit you while in ink form? YES.
Some splatfest colors even have stuff like glitter in them, like in the splatoon 2 chaos vs order fest, so they could include that too.
@@ringlemur9666 Exactly, or they can use the Side Order ink pattern to set them apart.
Bro
They made a character that literally builds walls.
They are NOT letting a few slightly similar colors stopping them from adding one of the most requested newcomers from one of the best selling Nintendo franchises.
It's also funny how you make fun of Waluigi fans but want GENO in Smash.
Octolings are a skin swap with literally no meaningful difference in their own game.
Why should they be any different in Smash?
LMAO
@@BaldorfBreakdowns Because the Inklings are hard-limited to Splatoon 1, meaning that there are a ton of weapon types that they don't use. Hell, the Inklings don't even have access to every weapon type in Splatoon 1. For all intents & purposes, the Inklings in Smash are a representation of exclusively Splatoon 1 rather than the series as a whole. Octoling could represent the later games, including new weapons & mechanics introduced since Splatoon 1.
@@Neoxon619 So give the next iteration of Inklings a moveset that has Splat 1-3 stuff, then make Octoling alt skins.
None of this changes the fact there is no meaningful gameplay change between Inkling and Octoling in their own game and thus there should be no meaningful change between Inkling and Octoling in Smash.
@@BaldorfBreakdowns Given that Inkling was added in Ultimate, it's unlikely that they'll rework them so soon after their debut. Plus I doubt Nintendo would be ok with just one Splatoon rep, especially given how big the series is in Japan.
I feel like an easy solution is to either make Octolings have a darker tint to their ink or only when an Inkling is present. While the colors wouldn't be 100% accurate I am pretty sure that most people would overlook it if it meant that Octolings would be playable without any major issues or giving the player less of a choice with the color they choose.
I think smash bros melee did something similar for colored team battles if i remember correctly.
@@brodynintendo61 I think Smash Bros still does this with stuff like online if two players are using the same character and color, but for Octoling it would just be for the ink.
@@brodynintendo61 Oh yea, I forgot they did this already with characters. They've done that since the first game, making same-team-color/same-character picks either slightly brighter or darker.
Saying that removing the ink mechanic from the octoling is the same as removing the damage multiplier applied depending on where the sword hits is wild to me.
It's more like removing the sword entirely, not just more damage on the tip/base of the sword.
I have no idea how you're the only person I've found who brought this up; they didn't just remove a mechanic, they altered it, Lucina and Chrom have the same damage throughout their whole sword. They lose out on the bonus damage, but they don't have any negative repercussions for other parts of the sword. Completely different from removing ink from a SPLATOON character.
yeah this guy is being ridiculous.
Exactly! Like ink is the whole gimmick of the game, it wouldn’t make sense if they just couldn’t use ink
Why not link the color (not the gear) to the player slot. For example player 1 would be orange 2 blue and so on making it that no 2 players can ever have the same color
I can't get over the fact that there should be a problem with this but I don't know what it is. Surely such a simple solution has a glaring flaw we aren't noticing?
@@ConJakPre color blindness could cause some players to request their opponents use a specific controller port - in doubles, some players ask that the match be played as certain pairings (like asking for red vs. green if they have trouble differentiating blue vs. green, for example)
It even works good for team matches cuz making multiple teammate Inklings share a color makes it more accurate to source material
Just gotta alter how Ink works so that it doesn't deal damage to teammates regardless of friendly fire on or off
To add on to this you should be able to choose what color regardless of player slot with the restriction of only one of each color per match. So you could be blue as player 1 and orange as player 2 instead of orange only one 1 and blue only on 2
@@ConJakPre There is no big flaw, but an inconsistency that would be annoying to refine, and knowing how Nintendo fans are, they would take notice.
Technically, it is possible to just play like that. But it would look ugly to see yourself pick an Inkling with a blue ink color render, just for it to switch to something like orange due to player slots.
To fix that, it would require a quality of life change of making 128 TOTAL RENDERS, for you to know your color during selection. 8 inklings with 8 colors and 8 octolings with those same colors.
...
Or they could just leave the inconsistency like that. I wouldn't complain, reminds of melee player slot thingies
Did anyone else not understood the problem with the octolings? Like I still see no hindrance surf this color problem
as a long time splatoon fan, I think the octolings can work as an echo fighter. maybe they can have the same colours of the inklings, but if two people choose the same ink colour, the second players ink colour will change but still being able to play as that costume. for example, player 1 chooses the normal orange inkling but player two wants to play as an orange octoling, player 2’s octoling’s ink colour will be changed to blue, but will have the same outfit. I have been thinking about this too so I’m glad someone talked about it lol
I guess but that would be a lot of time and effort (and memory space) just to add an echo of a fighter already in the game. I mean you "could" do that but that would affect the rest of the game. The only way I see that working if their a pre order bonus like best lad Piranha Plant
@@robomuffin1386 dude we're theorizing an entire new game. i doubt that slightly changing the player color is this impossible task when building a game from the ground up
I’d give the Octolings more bright/neon colors, and have the inklings keep their more subdued/classical colors.
Maybe just make the color lighter / darker, like how it happens with two of the same alt?
Since side order invented a new kinda ink effect, maybe the octolings could have the same colors as inklings but have a lighter, more sparkly ink instead?
Also hi scribbler!
Literally use glowy ink with stickers like splatfests do and Boom
While I didn't take the lack of available distinct colors into consideration, I highly doubt this is going to stop them from really implementing Octolings into Smash. They've made Wii Fit Trainer, ROB, Mr Game & Watch, and Duck Hunt into fully realized playable characters. You KNOW they will find a way to get around the color issue for the Octolings.
Even so, I don't think they would really care that much anyway. The colors are just a thing you temporarily see on opponents or the ground when using ink, or see it on their hair/tentacles. Meanwhile there are several characters with costumes/alternate skins that are really, REALLY similar to each other and are also hard to tell apart on bigger stages. I highly, HIGHLY doubt they will care that much about ink color that will only be on screen for specific periods of time anyway, and they can still for the most part pick more distinct colors anyway.
Not to mention item stuff from other characters. Who's King K Rool crown is that? Who does that specific Luma belong to? Who's C4 is that? Never mind, where even IS that C4 again? You know, stuff like that.
Octolings are still a shoe in. This video didn't change my mind in the slightest. The colors just do not matter nearly as much as you make it sound like.
Yeah, Octolings already look very different from Inklings anyway so similar colors wouldn't be confusing. Like if Ike & Marth both had a brown skinned alt & both were in use at the same time, it would still be easy to tell who's who because they don't look similar in any other regard.
Because in the game if you have the same color you are on the same team
@@Kloyster2010 That's no longer the case in Ultimate where you're free to pick your outfit regardless of Team color.
For the first problem litterally just add more colors. You could use pastel and dark colors. You don't need to use cannon colors. Add black, white, and red even.
Smash breaks cannon all the time, and I am sure they could solve all of these with some creative solutions as well.
Hell, they gave one of the fire emblem characters a CHAINSAW SWORD.
@@TopOfAllWorlds The chainsaw sword is canon, and they don't want to do white or red ink because of blood and semen, which wouldn't be any different for Smash because same company
@thatonespooder1513 mayo vs ketchup was a splatfest.
@@FlareBlitzGamez Oh my god, that never occurred to me but you're right!
@@TopOfAllWorlds now idk my Fire Emblem lore, but I'd say giving Kirby access to essentially any power in fiction would be a better example of Smash taking creative liberties against the source material's canon
Octolings could be a very different character from inklings since you can take inspiration from side order mechanics and visuals. Like the ink patterns and colors.
Couple of ideas:
1. In Splatoon 2's base campain, ink has a unique glitter effect, this exagerated could make the difference.
2. Textured ink Similar idea, but more extreme, enemies in Splatoon generally have unique ink, like in Octo Expansion the ink is a mix of light blue and green. If their other colours were edited in a similar way that could work.
3. Thanks to Octo Expansion and Side Order, there are plenty of Octoling-specific colours, like cream, tan, black, light purple, the classic redish pink, magenta. Especially if there are the splatfest specific colours like red or dark green
“we couldn’t come up with enough distinct alternate costumes for the fighter" is probably the last and the worst reason on why a fighter can get into smash
I would very much argue against their not being enough colors, there is quite literally billions of colors in existence and we have had about a dozen colors specifically tied to octolings and there is so many special colors from like splatfest that don't get represented in normal gameplay that very much could
ok i just want to say that every time i see agent 3 my brain is like ' YO THATS ME FROM LIKE 9 YEARS AGO OH MY GOD' idk is that just me
neo 3 or captain /lh /silly
a rlly simple and obvious solution is to just make ink color based on player number, like regardless of alt, player 2 will always have blue ink. only "issue" is what color to make player 1 but Id think it'll be whatever the warmer color of splatoon 4s main color palette (as in the colors on the boxart)
he said that in the video
@@acer1kylesf943 No he didn't, he said to just make alt costumes. OP is saying to have a completely separate character, but always have Player 1 have blue ink, Player 2 have yellow ink, etc.
@@davidmaximus6709 "OP" what is this, reddit?
As many comments already explain, this could be fixed by tying the ink color to the player number.
But there's also the possibility that 8-Player Smash isn't in the next game. If that's the case, they may not need 8 colors per character.
As many other comments are saying, making the octolings an echo fighter and just not allowing the same colour alt to be picked between the two solves everything
For the ink color problem, they could reference some Splatfest colors, and even making it luminous/sparkly if they wanted to. They’re many different Fests to pull from if vanilla color similarities are an issue
A whole video dedicated to Inkling/Octoling, enough to make a dusty old day 1 Inkling main like me cry 😭 Thank you for the representation, Mr Jiggles
Splatfest ink colours, Story Mode/Octo Expansion/Side Order Colours, giving the ink texture or a glow like the previously mentioned things do.
It absolutely can work. Would need to be tested throughly, but I still think it can be done and done well.
Exactly! Like octolings are entirety possible, they could definitely add them using the colors from the octoling exclusive ink from side order and octo expansion
Seems like a simple problem to solve: Give different ink colors (including Splatfest colors), but also change the brightness of the color if they have some overlap with Inkling. Either that or make it Agent Eight specifically, who has a unique ink pattern in Side Order. Either way, Splatoon *WILL* get a 2nd character. The series is too big (especially in Japan) for Nintendo to be ok with only one Splatoon rep. And there are enough weapons that the Inklings don't use for the Octolings to be a distinct fighter.
I’ve see people are saying that simple option is to tie it to the player slot which is possible, but it would be incredibly boring. One of the best things about Inkling’s implementation was the use of different colours. So I think the best option is to split the Inkling/Octoling colours between them and then fill the other 4 slots with the special splatfest colours.
Or you could give the octolings splatfest colors and leave the inklings as is
Delzethin (a youtuber) made a great concept on how Octoling could be implemented in Smash, and even with different original moveset as a standalone character.
Tbh I'm not sure I agree with the core premise of the video. In 8 player Great Cave Offensive type matches no one's gonna be paying attention to the colour of ink on the ground anyways. In 1v1s, on the offchance both players are using the same colour to begin with, it won't be that hard to keep track of. The only situation in which I could see it being an issue is _maybe_ doubles, but then it'd be easy enough to just gentleman to using different skins, rock-paper-scissors for the one you want maybe. Seems like a total non-issue to me
I feel like you could give them a few of their Splatfest and Promo Art colors.
Inkings: Orange, Blue, Yellow, Pink, Lime, Bright Blue, Purple, Dark Blue.
Octolings: Coral/Dark Fuchsia, Indigo, Ice Blue, Teal, Forest Green, Rust Red, Lavender, and Gold.
While overlapping colors would be inevitable if Octoling got in, I don't think the different ink colors actually set each Inkling apart, so it probably wouldn't be a problem at all. They just take more damage in general from anything regardless of their ink color (so Mario attacking, orange Inkling, and Blue Inkling will all have the same multiplier against full orange ink). Keep in mind this isn't Octoling propaganda or anything; I know nothing about Splatoon and didn't even know Octoling was expected.
Additionally, here's something I found from Smashwiki about how different inks interact: "The color of ink is entirely cosmetic, aside from potentially making the coverage amount harder to estimate. Only one color of ink will be shown at a time, with the color changing once the new color's amount of ink surpasses the old one's. The effects of different colored inks do not stack"
I know this would *never* happen, but I’d love to see Deep Cut added to the roster. It would be a tag team situation, kind of like Pokemon Trainer. Instead of attacking with ink, Frye would use eels, Shiver would use her shark, and big man would use, well, himself.
Hear Me Out:
What if Inkling & Octoling BOTH got boosts from the same color ink? It'd be doofy and silly, but that could be a really fun AND funny solution to lean into it if handled correctly (think Ghost-type being weak to itself in Pokemon), plus it could be a fun distinct spin on the "we're not so different/more alike than we thought" sort of trope
Or just make it so any inkling or octoling gets boost from any color of ink
My idea is for the dev team to just make up new ink colours for the Octoling. There are bound to be eight more colours distinct enough to differentiate them from the Inklings.
🦐💬
He kinda already made that point. You’d start to overlap on colors of similar shades. Splatoon has a lot of similar colors but those similar shades never go up against each other which might not be the case for octolings.
@@spacewarp5850
They mean colours not used in Splatoon
@@spacewarp5850 There’s still one thing he blatantly ignores, the Splatfest colors. Not to mention reddish orange, which would fill the red niche without going full blood red.
@@QuokkaWaka yeah
I think the main reason is the ink color. My idea is to let us choose our ink color for *any* alt
"what other options are there" mr grizz i would love him in smash
Little mac had 16 skins back in smash 4, 8 regular and 8 wire frame skins, so the inkling/octoling being alt costumes could work. Adding the restriction that no two "lings" of the same colour can exist, and I think it'd work pretty well.
One solution: octoling is a separate character, and players are prevented from picking the same/similar ink colors across the 2 characters. Similar to how you can't pick the same costume, but spread across 2 different characters in this way
Makes sense to me. I also just don't think it's much of a problem in the first place though because octolings don't look very similar to inkllings. As for the ink itself, other people have mentioned that they could just make the ink be different shades of the same color, which worked great with the portals in coop in Portal 2. So regardless, I don't think there's a much of a problem to work around.
Red is actually an ink colour in Splatoon 3, so now it's not "off the table"...as much.
It was Also in 2
would be funny if they would use the same colors and on a color-mirrormatch both dont get more damage and they dont slow down on ink
Nice video, but I don't think this is as big of an issue as you're saying. Inkling in smash is entirely and exclusively based on the original Splatoon, as its main weapons, gear, voices, stage, special weapon, hairstyles (or lack thereof), and ink colours are all from the first game, with the only exception being some music tracks being either from or remixes of Splatoon 2 songs. As Octolings first became playable in Splatoon 2's Octo Expansion, I think they could just give Octoling the ink colours from Splatoon 2, which are different enough. I think this would also work nicely in having them represent Splatoon 2 in everything else, such as having its weapons, gear, stage, hairstyles, and special weapon.
Personally the way I see it, removing the ink isn't comparable to the tipper, it'd be more like taking away Marth's sword
Personally, I am against the idea of Octolings being an echo fighter. There is a lot of potential for showcasing different aspects of Splatoon that Inkling doesn’t represent. Copying and pasting Inkling’s moveset and portrayed personality onto the Octoling should not happen. Making them an echo fighter is the worst kind of low-hanging fruit you can go for here. Besides pulling from different weapons in the series that’d fit the character’s personality better (Splat Charger (most likely the E-Liter variant), Octo Brush, Dualies and Brellas to have them be a Splatoon 2 representative specifically, there is a lot you could do here). Since Inkling goes for a hit and run playstyle that showcases a sort of fun and rambunctious personality, I’d want Octoling to assume a slow, more methodical playstyle that could focus on setting up traps (Inkmines do exist) with more slower attacks that pack a bigger punch. This would make Octoling the antithesis to Inkling’s playstyle.
I feel like I have to say this because lots of people misunderstand Splatoon’s story, Inklings and Octolings are inherently different. I don’t know where you got your “Inklings and Octolings aren’t different are the whole point” interpretation of the story. It’s clearly shown that Inkling society is a lot less serious and that Inklings prefer light-hearted fun whereas Octolings are more smart and practical. The point of the story is that differences aren’t supposed to fuel a petty divide. Splatoon 2 Octo Expansion is probably one of Nintendo’s best works when it comes to themes and building on lore, mainly because OE was the start of the series’ potential being realized since up until that point the Hero Mode plots have been pretty bare bones. It looked like the team really wanted to expand on the pre-established themes of the world in a unique and interesting way. I am baffled that the dev team decided to follow up that masterclass with the incredibly mid stories that were Return of the Mammalians and Side Order. Both of these stories ruin most of the character progression most of the main cast went through in past games and did nothing to expand on them meaningfully. With Splatoon 3 RotM being the supposed end of the “Squidbeak Splatoon story”, the way they decided to end it is super underwhelming.
Despite me being one of the biggest fans of the Splatoon franchise, a part of me doesn’t want to see Octolings in a theoretical Smash 6, not because I don’t like the idea but because I don’t trust that Octolings will be done justice. I highly doubt there will ever be a wholly new Smash game anyways. The best they could do is make an enhanced version of Ultimate to be ported to a next gen console with some new DLC. Sakurai should get a break, and the Smash franchise should not stretch for longer than it needs to. Nintendo squeezing Kirby games out of Sakurai was the entire reason why he left to start his own company. Capitalism is a joke and Japanese work culture is a crime.
That’s all from me. I feel like somebody has to say this, even though I know all of this may come across as a hot take. I’ll be straight to the point, I don’t think there are any genuine intelligent discussions happening in the Splatoon or Smash community. I’ve stuck with these two fandoms for too long before I realized there were better things I could do with my life.
Except the Octolings you play as are the ones that left Octarian society to join Inkling society, and if their differences aren't enough to make them play differently in Splatoon, why would they be in Smash? Different personality never stopped a character from being an echo anyway (eg Dark Samus) if anything it's one of the reasons they make echo fighters instead of just alt costumes so they can change stuff that shows personality like taunts
@@Hewer86 But here's the thing, the Inklings as they are in Smash are exclusively representing Splatoon 1. If you add Octoling as an echo, you'd be stuck with that Splatoon 1 limitation in terms of weapons & mechanics. You'd be leaving 2 whole Splatoon games on the table, both of which were *MUCH* more successful than Splatoon 1.
To me, the best route (& probably the most likely one) is Octoling as a semi-clone of Inkling. They'd share stats, but the weapons & mechanics would pull from later Splatoon games to the point where they'd still be a distinct fighter. Think of it like the Isabelle to Inkling's Villager (I know, Splatoon & Animal Crossing are made by the same EPD division, but still).
@@Neoxon619 I get the desire to represent more Splatoon games than 1 but I feel like using Octoling to do that would be kind of a misrepresentation of how Octolings are supposed to be functionally identical to Inklings
However I do think they could make a few changes while still keeping Octoling as an Echo Fighter, similar to how Dark Pit gets Electroshock Arm instead of Upperdash Arm, they could give Octolings an Octobrush instead of Inkbrush, Luna Blaster instead of Blaster etc. with slight statistical differences, that feels like a good enough compromise
Or they could just overhaul Inkling's moveset to represent the newer games who knows (however I will note that Splatoon 1 was still very successful especially for a new IP on a failing system)
Videl in DBFZ was handled similarly to your model swap idea. By default her design is based on her short hair from the tournament which is her more prevalent design, but Arcsys knew that her pigtails design from the early Boo arc was _incredibly_ popular, so by holding down a trigger and selecting her on the CSS you can play as an alternate model with long hair. For Smash you could just press Y like you do with Pokémon Trainer to switch to an Octoling, which I think would work really well. Knowing Nintendo though, I'm not sure they'd commit to eight extra models when Ultimate was so intent on everyone sharing the same amount of costumes.
I think the main issue regarding Inkling/Octoling sharing alts boils down to the ink applied to other fighters and the ink left behind with Side Special - The cosmetic ink fired by other attacks is a non-issue compared to these, but I've come up with solutions for those two big problems should Octoling be entirely seperate from Inkling:
- For the ink left by Side Special, just have a squid/octo icon appear over the ink with the corresponding color, making it clear whose ink is whose.
- As for the ink residue left on opponents via Ink/Octoling's attacks, this would require a teeny bit of reworking. Inked opponents now have a squid/octo icon (just like Side B) above them representing which Ink/Octoling has inked them the most and deals extra damage to them. Of course, you can override one Ink/Octoling's "capture" of another fighter by inking them yourself, which could result in a mini Turf War, which i think is very fitting.
There might be some more nuance to this, but I think this is the optimal way to let Inkling and Octoling be seperate fighters. That said, I do like the idea of Octoling being a seperate library of alts for Inkling where two players can't have the same ink color. Inkless Octoling would kinda suck, though.
There’s multiple events in the games where there is a sparkle pattern in the ink so they can just add that element for octolings
Making the Octolings' moveset themed to Octo Expansion and Side Order would be a pretty cool idea. They could take advantage of a colour chip gimmick, where you collect Colour Chips to become stronger, kind of like in Side Order's final boss, and they could use different types of various weapons (so not the regular Splattershot, but the Splattershot Pro for instance) for their basic attacks, like how Octo Expansion gave you a choice of weapon at the Turnstyle before each Station. We even have an easy Final Smash: The Princess Cannon or Colour Wail. I know they're technically both used by Pearl, but the Octoling could summon them themselves. ^^
I don’t see why they can’t just lock the colors out once one is selected for either. Like, if someone’s blue Inkling, just make the Blue Octoling skin non-selectable as if someone had selected blue Octoling. It’d be seamless and relatively intuitive
Exactly. Just like how it won't let you choose 2 of the same skin of the same character.
I wouldn't really call it "seamless and intuitive" to lock out an entire Octoling outfit just because of an Inkling that wears a completely different outfit but just happens to have the same color
7:21 I'm not the only one who could not see Enderman in literally any of those screenshots, right?
Edit: I found Brinstar and Lylat Enderman. I give up on Dracula's Castle
I'm still looking it up, do you mind sharing the answer ?
I don't get how he can even be in the Dracula's Castle one...
Brinstar one, if you look at the lowest cyst thingy on the right side of the brain, he's a bit below that.
Lylat one is just underneath the bottom right section, at the bottom left point of the square face.
Hope that makes sense.
For Dracula’s Castle, I think Enderman is right next to Steve. The area next to him have a blocky looking shadow that it could be Enderman.
I think he might be to the left of the clock on the right side of the screen.
Even zoomed in and raising brightness I can't fully tell, though.
I genuinely don't get why you made a whole video about this. Like you said with enderman, they came up with a work around ti make him work, so don't you think the Smash team would do the same for Agent 8?
So if I'm understanding correctly, the problem is splat roller's ink trail becoming confusing if theres 16 different characters with it. So why not give Octoling a different Side Special? No other move in inkling's kit puts down/uses ink on the floor, so you could just give octolings a different weapon with a different effect, like the Splatana Stamper, and still let them use the mechanic for coating opponents in ink.
You could make the octolings use splatfest colours from the latest 8 splatfests
Nice vid! Just wanna add:
The inklings and octolings are NOT human or human hybrids at all! They are rapidly evolved squids/octopi over 10,000 years due to humanity's extinction, and other lore reasons! (There are also some inkling/octoling adults like the idols [Callie, Marie, Pearl, Marina, etc.])
As for the MAIN problem here, I think the ink colors for Octolings could be solved!
Here's the colors:
1: Pink w/ glitter [perhaps replace the pink inkling w/ a parallel canon that shoots black ink (from Side Order)]
2: Off-white ink w/ circuit like patterns [Side Order]
3: Sanitized ink [Octo Expansion]
4: Fuzzy Ink [Rise of the Mammalians]
Other possible colors:
-Pastel colors
-Glittery Ink [like in Splatfests]
-Ink w/ decals/ Stickers on them [like in Deep Cut's boss fights]
the issue with the no-ink idea is that Inkling is the gimmick is VERY noticable. Lucina and Marth are not noticably different from each other, especially not to casuals, and having a clear indicator where their sweet spot is, is not nearly as important as the Ink. ANYONE would notice their Ink gimmick gone; they literally got an input only they have (and I think Steve) to work around it. On top of that, their gameplay is built around the ink idea; taking it away might mean needing to change moves entirely cause they're balanced around ink, and just buffing damage values could make them super plain or broken or underpowered. It be a huge risk
Three options I thought of
1. Just give them a different gimmick and build them from the ground-up. If you're going to suggest making them an echo without the ink gimmick, then they can just make the Octoling have a separate moveset with or without a gimmick. (Also any other character can just be given a unique moveset too despite being inkling/octoling; theres no reason Shiver or Frye would need to play identical to an inkling)
2. Theres some other visual effect put onto the ink to differentiate them. Bubbles, smoke, haze, or even something like stripes or spots. It wouldnt reflect the game obviously but a good effect could be plenty to differentiate similar looking colours.
3. Lock the ink's colour to player colour rather than the character colour. This would cause the issue of the hair colour not matching the ink, but it would let you have the Octoling and Inkling together with no issue whatsoever
If they do add them It'd be cool if they used the side order weapons and outfit. Most of the weapons inkling uses got a side order skin, and blaster and ink brush can easily be swapped with the Luna and octobrush.
And also for the default octoling could just be the octo expansion and use the octoshot and octobrush.
tbh I think there is a solution here, namely if the Smash team decides to make Octoling more unique. In the Side Order DLC for 3, the main collectables for Agent 8 are the pallets, different colour chips. So, what if they basically give Octoling Monado Arts but with the pallets, and make the colour selection only colours that haven't been used on Inkling yet. Probably not a perfect solution but I think it could be neat
Finally, a new pjiggles video 🛐
My solution would be the ink boiling (or some other visual effect that is easy to see) if it's shot by the Octoling. The ink doesn't do that in the Splatoon series but I would take some creative liberties for functionality. Also they could add a black, white and brown alt but it's not necessary.
My solution was to use the Chaos and Order colors as alternate skins for the Inklings to save more colors for the Octolings. And you wouldn’t need too many colors anyway, thanks to Tartar’s monstrosity. Sanitized Octolings are a PERFECT alternate skin, and you could even make two if you’re willing to break canon a bit and make this slimier ink different colors. The female skin would have greener ink, and the male skin would have bluer ink, so there won’t even be any confusion there.
big man being kind of the kuma of smash bros, where almost all of his moves are silly or not even trying to hit the opponent, would be awesome
Couldn't they just give octoling the same color options as the inkling, then just make it so no two players could select the same color?
Kinda like 8:24, but if you try to select a color already used by an inkling player, it just skips over to the next available color (and vice versa).
Just give the octolings patterned ink.
Even if I'm not 100% sure how he'd work, I always kinda preferred the idea of DJ Octavio joining as a second Splatoon rep over the Octolings.
Octolings can work as echo fighters and I firmly believe that. Just make ink colors randomized like they are in splatoon, alt outfits for inklings and octolings just being the outfit itself and not the ink color. so if you have any combination of 8 inklings/octolings on the stage, they'll all still be different colors.
Something they could do is make them separate with unique costumes and stuff, and tie the ink colors to the player position, so P1 is always orange, P2 is blue, P3 is yellow, etc
You could also just simply pull from outside the main battle colors, like Silver and Copper from the Chaos vs Order splatfest, the turquoise from sanitized octos, cream from Side Order, etc
They could just use ink colors that are not in the Splatoon games tbh, like 2 shades of red, black, white, grey, maybe some darker green, brown and beige. But my real question is, why do people want Octolings in Smash? If they play the exact same way, what's the hype about? (I only played Splatoon once and it was just the multiplayer.)
It's no different from how some people prefer to play as Octolings instead of Inklings in Splatoon
One option is to do something similar to what was done in the recent Side Order dlc and add ink patterns on top of the Octolings ink colors if you can't easily distinguish with color alone. Solving both the not enough colors problem, and making an easy way to tell the difference between a large number of ink types.
if they can let octoling use moves and specials from splatoon 3, then it opens up so many opportunities to use things like zipcaster for recovery
Ok, but here’s an idea: make it an olimar and alph situation, where they’re in the same character slots as the inklings. Four inkling alts, and four octoling alts. Two female inklings, two female octolings, two male inklings, two male octolings.
Edit: of course this was brought up in the video. Whoops.
Splatoon's too big for just a single character with alts to be sufficient for Nintendo. They're gonna want a 2nd distinct Splatoon character.
I was thinking instead of just cloning give them entirely different weapons
Fck shooters, give it dualies
Fck inkbrush, give it a splatana
Fck killer wail, give it Tenta missiles
Fck splat bomb, give it a fizzy bomb
One solution I'm suprised nobody has mentioned is just. Have it be Agent 8 from Side Order specifically, and have them use variations of that really pale ink. Have Octo Expansion and the Story mode evil Octoling fits as alternate costumes if you want, yeah they don't use that pale ink but who would realistically give a shit about that?
Honestly you could argue Agent 8 would work better with their own moveset, like a Pearl Drone recovery or Pearl's killer wail as a final smash. That's probably best case scenario IMO
I don't get your issue with ink, just give Octolings different colors and if they are a slightly different shade then it's not much of a a problem. You do realize Inkling mirror matches happen right?
Honestly, I think it would be kinna neat if the new fighters in the next Smash Bros were mostly Nintendo characters.
There are so many Nintendo OGs that would be a great fit but never got in.
Personally, I really like the Team Rocket concept from a few years back, even if they aren't _technically_ from any of the Pokemon games.
I know it doesn't have precedent, but they could just lock certain alts between both characters and not allow same colour Inklings and Octolings into the same match . Like keep them as entirely separate characters, but the moment one colour alt is chosen on either, that parallel colour alt on the other character disappears when another player hovers over them
I love how the premise of the video is so nothing, he fuckin contradicts him self
Counter point the 3 pyra/mythra alts that all look the same (except 1 is revered)
And pacman
Honestly, you made a good point. Unless the Octolings just share the same colors or make them Alt Outfits, what else can they do?
You know what? I am going to go through every ink color in Splatoon 1-3 available in turf war and ranked battles, because I genuinely want to see if there are enough as even ignoring salmon run and all story mode colors that leaves me with a total 126 colors, so I’ll put my money where my mouth is and find out if you can’t pull 16 distinct colors from that pool.
i think an option that could work is to give the octolings colours based on splatfests from the series history, as some have had exclusive colours that aren't seen outside of those events, it gives the octolings more options for distinct colours while also being a nice subtle reference to a core part of the Splatoon experience
People saying that the Ink color should be linked to the Player Slot should realize that will very likely not happen.
They would have to lock the skin to the Player Slot which is just unrealistic to ask of players to ask their opponents "Can I be Player X? I know that you're already Player X but I really like using that Inkling costume." whether in tournament or at a casual hangout. If there's not an option to select Player Slot on a button next to your Controls Set Name then it would be cumbersome for everyone from Louisiana's #18 Inkling to Little Timmy wanting to play Smashy Bros. at his cousin's house.
And if they didn't link Player Slot with Costume then the Ink Color wouldn't match the Inkling Color. Or, you're basically asking for all 8 of Inkling's(AND Octoling's) Costumes to have 8 different Colors which is unfair to every other character unless the developers want to create 64 colors for each character.
Solution: If there is both an inkling and an octoling in the same game, there will be an inkling/octoling icon over the ink splatted by them
I think they could have a squid/octopus shaped icon above players hit by ink to provide some better clarification to how much the opponent is inked. Not that I have an issue with how it works rn but think some icons/ui would help with certain character mechanics such as robs fuel gauge, olimars pikmin, special moves for the miis, luma’s health’s etc
i think using some of the side order dlc mechanics could be used for identifying octolings. their ink is patterned and sort of glittery, along with some cases of them being amplified, adding yellow boundary boxes around the ink shots, etc. using the uniform would also work imo, considering it's very bright and would stand out from the more casual and darker outfits from the inkling sets
meanwhile pikmin fans who have been waiting for a second playable since smash 4
I really don’t think many people would care if they make Octo’s an alt. They are literally just an alternative skin/voice with slightly different animations. So why would people care if they did the same thing in Smash? This isn’t really a big deal, Jiggles.
You have no idea
@@EWOODJ of what?
Because there's so much of Splatoon that has yet to be represented in Smash because of Inkling's Splatoon 1 limitation. Plus the Splatoon series in general is too big for it not to get a 2nd distinct fighter, & Smash is known to have a bias towards successful new EPD franchises.
@@Neoxon619 ok but you’ve gotta remember that for franchisees that have gotten more then one fighter, their subsequent games have had drastically different styles and/or gameplay that they can use to pull new movesets. Think Fire Emblem or Mario. Or they used a completely different (yet equally as iconic) character form said franchise. Think FF7.
Splatoon doesn’t have that luxury. Despite how wonderfully diverse it is (and having 3 games now), it has only one main gameplay formula because of the nature the game is built on. So it would be kinda redundant to make more than one fighter. And despite Octoling’s “technically” being a different and equally as iconic character, they are (again) just a pallet swap (outside of the lore).
No views in 1 minute. Bro fell off.
Like farmer.
I swear to God this is all you people do. Silence.
So skibidi sigma
845 views in 7 min? Bro did not.
I never got this trend its not even funny
on the topic of splatoon / smash…
callie and marie as a tag team like ice climbers or something like pokemon trainer where you switch between them would be a good future splatoon rep, as idols are important to splatoon. only problem with them is they have no attack moves.
idols who do have attack moves though, are shiver, frye, and big man. they would also be like pokemon trainer where you can switch, and they use attacks similar to the ones in their boss fights, but it feels wrong skipping over the other idols
Good video, one small issue, it is possible to fight the same colored inkling in Ultimate. Normally its impossible, but with Amiibo or by facing someone online, you can have the same colored inkling.
With that in mind, and with the fact that Splatfests colors can be used as an alternative, or with a different texture or pattern, octolings can work even with the idea of the colors may be limiting
Also Indigo is similar to purple so different shades of the same color can work.
Some people even suggest Callie and Marie (they’re already Assist Trophies), or Mr. Grizz, but like you said with how popular Splatoon is and its sales figures, it more than deserves a second rep in smash. Heck I’m shocked Chrom got in before Octolings.
Ultimate's base roster was locked in before Splatoon 2 dropped, so I can understand why Octoling was snubbed last time. But now, they kinda have to be a semi-clone rather than a simple echo.
Here's a possible solution: make the Octolings Agent 8' with 4 alts being Octo Expansion 8 w/ red ink and different shades of existing colors (there are plenty shades to choose from in the game that you wouldn't get confused with the already existing shaded). And then have the other alts be Side order 8 w/ the uniquely patterned ink seen in the DLC. problem solved.
My simple solution its lock Octolings to the special colors not usually used. Main is the pinkish color used during the octo expansion, with alts including stuff like the gray, hazel, and maroon used in some splatfests, the black used in side order, and the weirder stuff used by certain enemies in the story mode. If its something you'd have trouble seeing just make it hella shiny.
Also personally I would recommend beyond just a generic Octoling using instead Agent 8. They're the recurring player character in both side order and octo expansion and could use different weapons from the standard Inkling like the dualies, stringers, splatanas, or splatlings
You forgot Splatfest Colors which do include Red Ink and White Ink IN THE SAME SPLATFEST KETCHUP VS. MAYO
The good thing is that Splatoon already gave us the answer with Side Order. Give Octolings the special patterned ink that we saw on Side Order. A cool reference to Side Order since it is an Octoling exlusive gameplay mode.
I will say that Octolings as an Echo player is in itself a bad option, the best option woukd be to give them the new weapons that have been added to Splatoon Dualings, Splatbrella, Splatana and Stringer representing how Splatoon has evolved.
honestly if you look at a lot of the special colors they used in splatfests, its definitely possible to add 8 colors:
brown, gold, silver, white, black, main octoling red, and possibly even mix colors like in splatoon 3 DLC? where theres like a white-ish blue, etc etc
theres more options out there than just the main 8 colors used, and i think that even if its that much of an issue i know they could do it
on top of that, pearl and marina also being skins or at least using their colors to some degree could make them more unique :>
I still think having octolings just take half the costume slots makes more sense.
Also, I do think that bandana waddle dee is more likely that waluigi to come into smash, and I'm suprized he wasn't mentioned more. The poor guy has been working hard in his series, enough to be considered as a part of the main group, and yet he hasn't been added, and I think he is likely to. He is part of the main 4 from KRTD, and I feel like most people would agree that if they want to make the kirby representation complete, all they need is bandana dee.
I don't see this problem being near enough to matter honestly.
Readability of two different roller trails is such a minor situation in gameplay that I really don't see how it would be a barrier to entry.