Great video and great reminder that we are playing this game to have FUN. While researching wizard builds i can't tell you how frustrating it was to find a post and the comments were 80%, "oh just play sorcerer with a wizard dip instead" like people are only interested in min-maxing or power builds are the only way to have fun. Breath of fresh air, really 🙏
I feel like abjuration wizard is arguably as good with a 1 Sorc dip as any sorcerer build is with a wizard dip. White Dragon Sorc 1 just gives it everything it needs. I’m running one in honour mode as my Gale, and even with Warding Bond active on my Durge he’s never gone down or run out of wards. I wanted to try the Barbarian hybrid from this channel but I was well into act 2 when I found out about it and didn’t want to lose my learned spells.
Well thats quite self-furfilling. I mean, of course people who watches build guides will care about minmaxing and efficiency to some degree. Thats why they are here in a first place, thats why build guides have a purpose. But yep, different approach is always good. Thats why i like Ceph vids - his guides not just "OP 360 noscope immortal oneshot machine" but themed, flavored and unique - while also much effective.
@@sinner5452 I was trying to be selective about which posts I read based on the question asked and a lot of times the op would specify they want to play wizard, not sorc, and they still got sorc builds. "Oh you want to play wizard? Go 8 sorc, 1 tempest cleric, 2 fighter for action surge... oh and 1 level wizard for spell learning". 😂
There’s drawbacks to going one dip wizard builds though because I’m pretty sure spells you learn from scrolls cast off your Int modifier, which will probably be -1 since you’re a Sorcerer. But obviously learning no DC save/attack roll spells, while learning support spells, or abusing arcane equity will still make these builds good anyway but it’ll be more item dependent
Typically for me, optimal play is fun, but sometimes you just gotta throw a rotton egg at the eldritch god of death and call his mother a pansy you know.
I would say that Lore bard is not a bad choice anyway. Lors of skills, choosing a few more useful spells from other lists really helps. Making your opponents fail by dissing them is just brilliant.
Yeah I agree, I'm more in-between. It's not all I care about, but if it isn't at least somewhat optimal then I can't enjoy it. Strange how most people are either fully either way, my friends never get it when I say I do like flavour, and fun but it has to be at least decent. -Lore bare may not be the best, I do like it though because you get all the spells and tons of proficiencies, only class that does. Whereas four elements monk.. I like spells but it's just so rubbish, I can't use it because you're better off punching rather than using spells once you hit level 5, at which point you may aswell play another monk.
I played a cleric of Lathander on my first co-op playthrough, and i carried 4 rotten tomatoes through most of the game. One to throw at each chosen and one for the Netherbrain. They will know shame.
@@SecureBirch410 I am too. My thing is finding fun combinations which may or may not be particularly optimal and then optimizing them so my idea becomes viable. I do some weird things in tabletop but if it isn't able to pull its weight I am not into it.
I completely agree with you on the Lore Bard point. In my Evil Durge run I played with Lae'zel as 6 Vengeance Paladin 6 Lore Bard, and the idea of her cussing at the enemies causing them to miss attacks and fail saving throws was SOOO funny and satisfying to do. It's like having a Divination Wizard, but more fun.
@@Cephalopocalypse I played through last time as a 2 warlock 10 Lore bard and it was probably the most fun I've had in the game so far. In addition to Cutting Words being amazing and comboing very satisfyingly with the light cleric reaction ability you basically get a lot of the utility spells that you would want as an arcane caster while being supplied with all the reliable direct damage you could ever need from your pocket heavy crossbow that only cost you your soul.
Halsin is so fun as a moon druid. The amount of times he's turned the tide for me in my first run is ridiculous. Yeah, you've swarmed my party and are definitely a threat, but OWLBEAR DOESN'T CARE!
Halsin is my favorite punching bag since the AI goes hog wild on low AC characters. The key was to just stack resistances onto him rather than making him harder to hit. Was fun to boost his CON saves and give him poison resistance so he took chip damage from the cloudkill fog he’d bait all the enemies into.
The barbarian dialogue options are always hilarious. I did the thunder tiger build for my Lae’zel origin run and the barb lines always felt oddly in-character
I ran that build in tactician on karlach and it was funny and stupidly effective. That build cheesed raphael by itself, the poor man was face down the whole fight 😂
@@feircy Exactly, I love the build and you can get about everything you need for it before act 3 even starts. Iirc that’s the run where I went straight to the house of hope at level 10 and just wrecked that encounter. I wasn’t playing Honour at the time, but it’s probably about as effective.
Trickery Cleric's poor design in BG3 was my main motivator for trying out BG3 mods, and I must say that the potential is absolutely there, which pains me that it wasn't done well. With the mod I used (UA6 Invoke Duplicity), Invoke Duplicity can be moved around after being summoned, you can cast spells from its position, and you can swap places with it. That mod caused Trickery to go from one of my least favorites to my absolute favorite in the game, combining the Cleric class that I already really enjoy with a lot of positioning-based plays that promote creativity.
I really love the spell list of Trickery still, so I tend to keep Shadowheart as it many times, but yes it's a bit of a shame with the Invoke Duplicity in particular.
Can’t speak for invoke duplicity, but I know trickery/gloom or trickery/ shadow monk is super good because you can cast pass without trace on yourself and be invisible in plain sight for no damn reason.
I have to say, I'm very disappointed with this clickbait title... I was promised an OBJECTIVE tier list, and within the first 20 SECONDS of the video, I'm being told that this is actually a completely SUBJECTIVE perspective! My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. I want my money back! /s
One thing I feel should be mentioned: What special options your class grants you story-wise. For example, Barbs and Bards are HILARIOUS to play. Barbs regularly get options to just break things with their bare hands or scare people into submission. And Bards, do I need to even elaborate?
Awesome video! :) The builds I have the most fun with are: Open Hand Monk Gloomstalker Assassin Battle Master Fighter - maneuvers like push attack are hilarious Swords Bard because it can do everything, haha
Sword bard is so lame in table top, but op as hell in bg3, especially if you dual wield hand crossbows, so you attack 3 times before you even get extra attack😂
I had to redo Honour Mode a lot just because I'm a perfectionist (only about three attempts ended with me dying in combat, every other reset was because someone important died or something similar), and was playing as a Lore Bard because expertise in all of the Charisma skills is a lifesaver. No matter how many times I reset, the Bard-specific dialog options were always entertaining. My favorites being the potential reaction to interrupting the couple in the Blighted Village (IYKYK), and calling Nere a Twat-Soul.
YES! This is the tierlist that will be most helpful for me. I want to play a complex character that emphasises decision making during encounters and really makes me think every time
Karlach as berserker barbarian is lots of fun! Using enraged throw to toss Gortash around, or use him as an improvised weapon to bludgeon his own guards lol Very satisfying 👍 For me, favorite classes are oath of vengeance paladin and storm sorcerer. On current honor run I’m multiclassing these two then having a hoot😁 Not sure I should mention how angelic reprieve potion breaks the game for sorcerers in case it gets erased by next patch, but… Being able use sorcery points to create level 1&2 spell slots, use those to create sorcery points from level one and two slots, use a potion to restore level one and two spell slots…. Think you can only buy those potions from that one merchant at moonrise Tower, but I always stock up with a boatload of those when playing as sorcerer.
after 1K h+ played i could safely say that the most 'surprising' and well developed romance for me was Lae'zel. You can feel her evolving and feeling love.
@@GomuGomuJoshLae’zel, Karlach, and Astarion would be my tops three. The Githyanki do not participate in love, which means that Lae’zel is literally creating the first Gith romance ever with you. Karlach is a motherfucking teddy bear freight train, and Astarion’s redemption made me cry. They’re all S+
@@GomuGomuJosh Yeah, it surprised me, but she's great. I enjoyed Shadoheart romance, sure, but it was more... generic isn't the right word. It was good. But Lae'zel is surprisingly sweet.
The first time I played the game, there was a bug and all of lae'zel's romance cutscenes played one after another in act 1. I thought it was probably a bug, but then I was like idk maybe she's just like that?
My first playthrough was as dragonborn Monk with the way of the fist. It was pure joy to jump across the whole map and punch shit. I didn’t try a lot of different classes yet, but i’ve already wanted to play as Shadow Monk, cause i think it is the most fun you can get in the game
I usually respect Astarion into shadow monk and haven't regretted yet. With a gloomstalker also on the team and if you have them both running the shadow spell (advantage on stealth checks) then you can get somethibg like +15 bonus to stealth checks.
Reeee, reeeee, your fun is different than mine! But really fun fun tierlist. It's always nice to hear someone explaining their favorites and how they feel about class rather than: "It does big numbers - S+"
Two handed weapon. Intimidate conversations. Rage at people trying to fight you, it halves physical damage. Throw enemies at other enemies. Think in all caps!
Barbarian might be the simplest class in the game. Enrage, hit stuff, and tank damage. Even Champion Fighter is more complex with deciding when to use your action surge.
There are several unique barbarian dialogue choices that are quite funny (like one of them the dialogue when you see the bugbear and ogre having sexy time in act 1), but same with you I cannot find the fun in barbarian class in term of combat.
@@yohanes2034I really love the wild hearts, but throwing berserkers are a little too boring for me. Wolf heart is sooooo strong and allows for really synergistic melee fighters, and elk heart basically gives your whole team a second stack of longstrider. Barbarians are really simple and really strong, so it’s probably best to multi class into more interesting playstyles while keeping their busted passives.
@@yohanes2034You should try the Thunder Tiger build. It was one of the most fun play throughs I had. Once I had boots of stormy clamor, gloves of belligerent skies, and hamarhraft it was a really engaging control build as early as mid-act 1
My only issue with this video is that you point out that equipment that breaks the game can be avoided, but then act like feats that break the game are mandatory. You don't have to take tavern brawler if you think it's not fun
Berserker barb was robbed, throwing enemies is instant s tier knocking it down due to tavern brawler, an optional feat entirely separate from from the class is bs when the list is specifically supposed to ignore optimal play
Some friends want to get grouped up for a 4-man tactician run. Since I don’t have to try and be optimal, would you increase the “fun” tier of Wild Magic Barbarian if I were to make sure I am ALWAYS standing next to friends when I rage?
To keep the radiant burst armor fun, I like giving it to a Paladin. That way they are trading durability for offense and they are not having quite as many instances of radiant damage to make the effect too powerful (ie applying it with Spirit Guardians)
My first playthrough was just pure Warlock and I loved it, second was a Barbarian/Druid half orc who would shift into an owlbear if he got too angry kinda like the Hulk but he’d also be really kind to those who deserved it. I love making actual characters instead of just seeing what can do the most damage
I slightly disagree with one take, granted this isn't more on the fun aspect but more mechanics. I find the Life Domain to be a super strong super class. Those additional heals younget with single casting along with its channel divinity AOE heal is really good. In the attack on Moonrise Towers, I was able to keep all the Harpers alive during that battle by sinply casting Mass Healing Word and its channel divinity. I do sgree, every other cleric has access to the same healing buffs via magical items, but in my opinion, Life Cleric is the one that'll keep you alive and active, especially in higher difficulties. Spoiler!!!!!!! Only time I felt its weakness was in the battle against the clerics of Shar, with their anti heal Chill Touch along with the battle against Ketheric Thorm when he has his anti heal aura.
In my honor mode playthrough I had Lazael as a tavern brawler fighter thrower with the trident. Was insanely powerful but I hated the huge AOE dmging my own team and also any civilians. The other huge downside is the arc being blocked by the enviroment. I will never play another throwing class even though they are among the most powerful in the game. For me they are C class.
I recently started a barb throw build. And i agree on your take on the tb feat. It is hillarious for a while though with the amount of damage you can get already in act 1 In my current game i Also run shart as a life Cleric/paladin ancient. She Also has a dip in mage so is my magic support the extra heals have saved me quite a few Times and there are a couple of good early game items relate to healing that makes those aoe heals life cleric and ancient paladins get. Getting both blade ward and bless on your character when you heal them is a fun and nice combination. Obviously this is a multiclass so doesnt speak for the whole life cleric character
Most fun character i've ever played was a 6 archfey warlock/6 college of swords bard. High charisma, decent spell list, and when you get pact of the blade and college of swords both online, then you can be an absolute monster in melee too. I also used the gloves of dexterity and armor of agility for ridiculous AC. That plus a defensive flourish, and you're basically untouchable (except AoE's). You can duel wield hand-crossbows for the hell of it too, although you'll already have eldritch blast. It was decent early game but became an absolute powerhouse during act 2. Lore bard also looks amazing but I couldn't resist the main character energy of being a bard with amazing rapier skills.
I enjoyed this very much! I have only played so many classes and getting a good idea of how the other classes play is good content, especially since you are a very funny person. You also articulate your thoughts very well.
I’ve tried mostly every combo now. My favorite is still SH as a Monk Cleric. Her running around with Guardians on while punching the hell out of everyone is my favorite fight mechanic.
I thiught the "i like the sound of my own voice" line was a joke but goddamn i never heard someome tale that long to explain a life cleric 🤣could tellcypu were habing fun though
I don't have a problem with any build being too strong. Just like BG1 and 2, there are many ways to personalize your difficulty level. In my current run, I'm not using tadpoles or stealing. Neither makes that big of a difference, but it changes the flavor a bit. Next run maybe no using potions or scrolls.
As much as I love classes with convoluted abilities, I just can't resist the pure joy that comes from throwing a dead goblin at their friend as a barbarian gnome I think that says a lot more about me than the game.
I love the concept for this piece. I'd almost characterize it as "design-focused" vs "optimization-focused" or even "roleplay-focused". Very fresh & interesting. Looking forward to part 2!
Around the time I started playing baldurs gate, I had just joined a friend's campaign with a duergar trickery cleric. I was surprised that this was a character I could almost exactly port over to bg3! However, the two factors that really got in my way were: 1. invoke duplicity being SO BAD. nowhere near as useful as it in in dnd. 2. shadowheart also sharing the same subclass? I don't know if this is just me, but "uniqueness" is something I really value in a character. I want to play something that not many people see, and the fact that my super-unique-in-theory build had a matching companion, added on to the fact that I now pretty much had to respec said companion- it kinda ruined the fun for me.
I once thought up the clever idea of casting Sanctuary on my Invoke Duplicity clone to keep it up longer. For some reason, it insta-killed the duplicate. I wasted an action, a bonus action, a spell slot, and my channel divinity on entirely nothing.
I have never played any D&D game or even the other BG games, but I’m having so much fun playing as a bard in BG3. Do I know what I’m doing? Absolutely not but I am enjoying every minute of it and learning in the way. This video was very helpful for future saves.
I can't disagree really with any assessment here, though I might differ on rankings a bit. True that swords bard, and light domain cleric are "too good" at damn near everything, but I personally have no issue with my party being optimal - Especially when they are that fun to play, and role-play. With a one lvl dip in storm sorc, at lvl 1, the light cleric feels more like being an X-Men, than a high fantasy adventurer. Personally, that just makes me very happy. Honestly, despite having played with both, I don't think I would ever run BG3 w/o either of them. I am even considering also running a lore bard, on my next play, just because its such a fun and reactive class. Unsure if my compulsion toward efficiency will allow me to run two party-face skill-monkies, but I can't shake the feeling that would be the most fun to play.
Fighter: ill fight rhe bad dude! Wizard: detect thoughts to say the right words. Swoed Bard: some boring Charisma dialog. Berserker Barbarian: ROAR! (Smashes door with rock)
Great video, definitely going to play bard next play-through. I think that's the most important part, not the op of classes but the fun of them, otherwise why are we playing? Druid is my favourite, I used the raven to blind larger enemies (the surgeon battle was a walk in the park) and owlbear to sponge and dps battles when I didn't know what I was up against
The core issue with thrown weapon and unarmed attack is really just the feat Tavern Brawler that needs to be reworked. I really dislike when a friend in my group plays Monk just to use Tavern Brawler. And I like that you lower the fun factor for OP classes like Bard or Cleric.
My biggest issue with casters (despite loving them so dearly) is that clerics and wizards basically have too much good stuff, not because it causes choice paralysis because you usually have a very clear idea of what you should cast, but because their limited use abilities tend to fall in the "too good to waste" category. So if you run into an encounter where you know exactly what to cast (such as a big group of enemies standing packed together where you can hit all with a crowd control or damage AOE) you always weigh the option of casting that spell against saving the use and killing them normally because there might be something even worse around the corner for which you would want to cast another spell that might potentially do more damage to a more dangerous creature. For clerics it's even worse because they literally run into a situation where they have some really good heavy damage spells but also run the main status and/or elemental damage protection part of the team. So I generally always bring one cleric and one spore druid. I might actually go melee next playthrough.
Any cleric can't go below A tier at the very least for one reason - Spirit Guardians and rats/ravens. There nothing more enjoyable in the game than rat waves off themselves by running at you.
This is an interesting list. And, if you look at the core classes the base characters start with it's even more so. Only about 50% of the 12 million people who have the game have gotten out of the first act (steam statistic). MOST players just aren't experiencing a lot of the game (60% of the players haven't gotten out of act 2). I'm assuming this also means a lot of people aren't multiclassing and a lot of people aren't changing their class (only about 15% of players are using hirelings .. I just don't think people are really exploring all the content). I think this means most people stay with what the character starts as. So, the fiend warlock, the arcane rogue, trickster cleric ... and on and on. Most of those didn't rate particularly high as a single class experience.
My personal most enjoyable is warlock. I get twelve lvl 5 spells per long rest, which is simply insane (3 spell slots refilled with short rest, three free short rests per long rest (two standard plus one from brinna brightsong stationed in camp specifically for that purpose )). Eldritch blast attenuated with potent robe and agonizing blast is a fucking MONSTER. Disonant whispers is one of the most useful spells in the fucking game. Lvl 5 Armor of Agathys plus cull the weak is such a beast you intentionally provoke opportunity attacks on lower hp enemies just to watch them off themselves. And a plethora of situational spells like crown of madness, hold person etc to choose from. I finished honor mode with it and it was amazing.
ngl i really love tavern brawlers for druid exactly where it's at. Without just slapping 5 extra flat damage on top of every owlbear attack, it's not like owlbear just trivializes the game. It sits at a 85% to 90% to hit, and considering that druids already took the hit of not being able to have their moonlight recast in wildshape, its only fair
I've been playing for about a week now so I'm still a super noob, but I have 2 characters I'm playing so I'm hoping to fast track my graduation to just the basic noob fairly quickly. I can't decide which I like more the open palm monk multiclassed with the thief subclass from rogue or the Dragonblood sorcerer multiclassed with warlock (I can't remember the subclass name only that it was the middle option of the 3 available). The problem is I have too many ideas and I just want to keep creating new characters to test theories but there would be sooooo much wasted time in doing that so thank you for doing the work so that I don't have to 😅
Wildheart barb eagle is very fun. Jumping from the top rope with no downside is great. Wild magic barb unfortunately sucks, the effects are so boring. I rarely used the bonus action surges from what I recall they don't scale well at all.
Currently playing as Marika from elden ring, a dark urge light cleric. I just recently unlocked the slayer form and found out that spirit Guardians works while transformed!
It's funny cuz my first campaign on normal was with a DB monk/ 4 elements and I didn't feel like they were as weak as people kept saying forreal. Game is really not that hard so I feel min-maxing is kinda pointless.
Nah this guy is wrong as fuck about healing not being viable in bg3. A level 12 life cleric can heal a minimum of 30 hit points to every parry member per turn. The most damage ive seen an enemy do is around 80 to 100 damage, a life cleric could heal all of that in one turn
When it comes to spore druid summons I still say they are the most fun to use in a tactical manner as long as you manage to get them to where they need to be. Yes there are more powerful summons, but having these means that you can actually do the "zombie horde" tactics that so few games allow you, setting up opportunities for your ghouls to do actual damage. Also the zombie plague debuff is just funny, I have on more than one occasion found myself going out of my way to make sure specific annoying enemies die while afflicted with this just to have them raise from the dead.
I think having some borken builds you can abuse if you know what you are doing is what makes bg3 so fun to me. It would be a bit more boring if every class was perfectly balanced
Now I want to try multiclassing a moon druid with a wild magic barbarian, it might suck but it sounds like it would be fun. That's assuming you can rage and then shapeshift and maintain the rage.
I respectfully disagree about your life cleric ideas. I'm mainly use my life cleric as a standard cleric in combat and just in case I do need healing I have some pretty good healing spells on hand to get someone back up but I don't use them as a healing bot every round. And they're out of combat healing prayer spell is pretty good too
i dont really see how a class being strong makes it less fun. tavern brawler is definitely the strongest thing in the game, but even then if you misplay your party can still get one shot.
I have been searching for most FUN builds since I started playing, and getting frustrated with the min maxed focused guides. I'll definitely use this video as reference for me and my friend as we start our new playthrough ☺️
I know this is old now, but I'm fairly certain that it wasn't a "design decision" to only have 1 character work during dialogue. I'm 99% sure it's a pain in the ass to code it and they just figured it wasn't worth it. Since the game isn't completely scripted like so many older RPGs where other party members jump in mid conversation, and there are hundreds (or thousands) of ways to go through the conversations, whereas in games where multiple party members can be involved its like 1 or 2 outcomes. Edit: they could probably have taken a page from Owlcats Pathfinder games and had the party members with the highest skills be the ones "doing" the checks though. Like if you had an arcana check and your party face was -1 but you had someone with +4 in your party it used their skill instead of your party faces.
Yeah exactly! Literally all they need to do is let your party use their skills like every other party-based rpg in the last decade - this is a solved problem!
Thanks for the insight into all the subclasses! My favourite multiclass builds are some kind of Bard/Rogue, and Moon Druid/Wildheart Barbarian - they're both fun in completely different ways, with a good blend of RP and combat.
Im having the time of my life with a necromancer bard. I don’t even have to do anything myself. My 3 elementals, 4 flying Gulls, 5 normal Gulls, 1 Shadow, and 1 spider do everything themselves while I just buff them and sit back playing “the power”.
I'm currently doing a run as Shadowheart origin as a 5/7 Gloomstalker Trickster Dark Justiciar and it is super fun. I will agree the early tools are quite meh but level 5 onward is great. Fear and Banishment are super strong and having a stronger invisibility option is incredibly useful.
It's been awhile. Can't you just put your weapon to throw on the hot bar and right-click and choose to throw it that way? Never used throw much I could be remembering wrong.
Yep, but that's still 2 more clicks per attack than any other weapon, which seems pretty solvable to me just by letting you set it as your default click-to-attack action
Great video and great reminder that we are playing this game to have FUN. While researching wizard builds i can't tell you how frustrating it was to find a post and the comments were 80%, "oh just play sorcerer with a wizard dip instead" like people are only interested in min-maxing or power builds are the only way to have fun. Breath of fresh air, really 🙏
I feel like abjuration wizard is arguably as good with a 1 Sorc dip as any sorcerer build is with a wizard dip. White Dragon Sorc 1 just gives it everything it needs. I’m running one in honour mode as my Gale, and even with Warding Bond active on my Durge he’s never gone down or run out of wards.
I wanted to try the Barbarian hybrid from this channel but I was well into act 2 when I found out about it and didn’t want to lose my learned spells.
Well thats quite self-furfilling. I mean, of course people who watches build guides will care about minmaxing and efficiency to some degree. Thats why they are here in a first place, thats why build guides have a purpose.
But yep, different approach is always good. Thats why i like Ceph vids - his guides not just "OP 360 noscope immortal oneshot machine" but themed, flavored and unique - while also much effective.
@@sinner5452 I was trying to be selective about which posts I read based on the question asked and a lot of times the op would specify they want to play wizard, not sorc, and they still got sorc builds. "Oh you want to play wizard? Go 8 sorc, 1 tempest cleric, 2 fighter for action surge... oh and 1 level wizard for spell learning". 😂
There’s drawbacks to going one dip wizard builds though because I’m pretty sure spells you learn from scrolls cast off your Int modifier, which will probably be -1 since you’re a Sorcerer. But obviously learning no DC save/attack roll spells, while learning support spells, or abusing arcane equity will still make these builds good anyway but it’ll be more item dependent
@@CosmicGumbo555lol right? And they think they're so smart repeating a build they read
"That does reflect poorly on you as a person" had me actually laughing out loud in the middle or work
Typically for me, optimal play is fun, but sometimes you just gotta throw a rotton egg at the eldritch god of death and call his mother a pansy you know.
I would say that Lore bard is not a bad choice anyway. Lors of skills, choosing a few more useful spells from other lists really helps. Making your opponents fail by dissing them is just brilliant.
Yeah I agree, I'm more in-between. It's not all I care about, but if it isn't at least somewhat optimal then I can't enjoy it. Strange how most people are either fully either way, my friends never get it when I say I do like flavour, and fun but it has to be at least decent. -Lore bare may not be the best, I do like it though because you get all the spells and tons of proficiencies, only class that does. Whereas four elements monk.. I like spells but it's just so rubbish, I can't use it because you're better off punching rather than using spells once you hit level 5, at which point you may aswell play another monk.
I played a cleric of Lathander on my first co-op playthrough, and i carried 4 rotten tomatoes through most of the game. One to throw at each chosen and one for the Netherbrain.
They will know shame.
@@SecureBirch410 I am too. My thing is finding fun combinations which may or may not be particularly optimal and then optimizing them so my idea becomes viable. I do some weird things in tabletop but if it isn't able to pull its weight I am not into it.
I completely agree with you on the Lore Bard point. In my Evil Durge run I played with Lae'zel as 6 Vengeance Paladin 6 Lore Bard, and the idea of her cussing at the enemies causing them to miss attacks and fail saving throws was SOOO funny and satisfying to do. It's like having a Divination Wizard, but more fun.
The writing on those is genuinely so good!
@@Cephalopocalypse I played through last time as a 2 warlock 10 Lore bard and it was probably the most fun I've had in the game so far.
In addition to Cutting Words being amazing and comboing very satisfyingly with the light cleric reaction ability you basically get a lot of the utility spells that you would want as an arcane caster while being supplied with all the reliable direct damage you could ever need from your pocket heavy crossbow that only cost you your soul.
Halsin is so fun as a moon druid. The amount of times he's turned the tide for me in my first run is ridiculous. Yeah, you've swarmed my party and are definitely a threat, but OWLBEAR DOESN'T CARE!
seriously just summoning a bunch of stuff then wild shape for the rest of the fight he's SO GOOD
Halsin is my favorite punching bag since the AI goes hog wild on low AC characters. The key was to just stack resistances onto him rather than making him harder to hit. Was fun to boost his CON saves and give him poison resistance so he took chip damage from the cloudkill fog he’d bait all the enemies into.
The barbarian dialogue options are always hilarious. I did the thunder tiger build for my Lae’zel origin run and the barb lines always felt oddly in-character
I ran that build in tactician on karlach and it was funny and stupidly effective. That build cheesed raphael by itself, the poor man was face down the whole fight 😂
@@feircy Exactly, I love the build and you can get about everything you need for it before act 3 even starts. Iirc that’s the run where I went straight to the house of hope at level 10 and just wrecked that encounter. I wasn’t playing Honour at the time, but it’s probably about as effective.
"ROAR!"
Trickery Cleric's poor design in BG3 was my main motivator for trying out BG3 mods, and I must say that the potential is absolutely there, which pains me that it wasn't done well. With the mod I used (UA6 Invoke Duplicity), Invoke Duplicity can be moved around after being summoned, you can cast spells from its position, and you can swap places with it. That mod caused Trickery to go from one of my least favorites to my absolute favorite in the game, combining the Cleric class that I already really enjoy with a lot of positioning-based plays that promote creativity.
I'm gonna have to keep this in mind, I like trickery domain even in BG3 but I'll admit I really lament the illusion's half implementation
I really love the spell list of Trickery still, so I tend to keep Shadowheart as it many times, but yes it's a bit of a shame with the Invoke Duplicity in particular.
Can’t speak for invoke duplicity, but I know trickery/gloom or trickery/ shadow monk is super good because you can cast pass without trace on yourself and be invisible in plain sight for no damn reason.
Always like seeing a good mod recommendation in the comments
I might have to do a lore Shadowhart run with that mod, that sounds so much more fun than using Trickery only for stealth.
I have to say, I'm very disappointed with this clickbait title... I was promised an OBJECTIVE tier list, and within the first 20 SECONDS of the video, I'm being told that this is actually a completely SUBJECTIVE perspective!
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. I want my money back!
/s
One thing I feel should be mentioned: What special options your class grants you story-wise. For example, Barbs and Bards are HILARIOUS to play. Barbs regularly get options to just break things with their bare hands or scare people into submission. And Bards, do I need to even elaborate?
Awesome video! :)
The builds I have the most fun with are:
Open Hand Monk
Gloomstalker Assassin
Battle Master Fighter - maneuvers like push attack are hilarious
Swords Bard because it can do everything, haha
Sword bard is so lame in table top, but op as hell in bg3, especially if you dual wield hand crossbows, so you attack 3 times before you even get extra attack😂
literally the usual first player classes.
Goes to show how similar and well done they made this game to d&d.
I had to redo Honour Mode a lot just because I'm a perfectionist (only about three attempts ended with me dying in combat, every other reset was because someone important died or something similar), and was playing as a Lore Bard because expertise in all of the Charisma skills is a lifesaver.
No matter how many times I reset, the Bard-specific dialog options were always entertaining. My favorites being the potential reaction to interrupting the couple in the Blighted Village (IYKYK), and calling Nere a Twat-Soul.
YES! This is the tierlist that will be most helpful for me. I want to play a complex character that emphasises decision making during encounters and really makes me think every time
Karlach as berserker barbarian is lots of fun! Using enraged throw to toss Gortash around, or use him as an improvised weapon to bludgeon his own guards lol Very satisfying 👍
For me, favorite classes are oath of vengeance paladin and storm sorcerer. On current honor run I’m multiclassing these two then having a hoot😁
Not sure I should mention how angelic reprieve potion breaks the game for sorcerers in case it gets erased by next patch, but…
Being able use sorcery points to create level 1&2 spell slots, use those to create sorcery points from level one and two slots, use a potion to restore level one and two spell slots….
Think you can only buy those potions from that one merchant at moonrise Tower, but I always stock up with a boatload of those when playing as sorcerer.
Early squaaaad!
You should do a romance tier list next
after 1K h+ played i could safely say that the most 'surprising' and well developed romance for me was Lae'zel. You can feel her evolving and feeling love.
@gomugomujosh649 Her and Astarions romances are so well developed I love romancing either one almost every playthrough
@@GomuGomuJoshLae’zel, Karlach, and Astarion would be my tops three. The Githyanki do not participate in love, which means that Lae’zel is literally creating the first Gith romance ever with you. Karlach is a motherfucking teddy bear freight train, and Astarion’s redemption made me cry. They’re all S+
@@GomuGomuJosh Yeah, it surprised me, but she's great. I enjoyed Shadoheart romance, sure, but it was more... generic isn't the right word. It was good. But Lae'zel is surprisingly sweet.
The first time I played the game, there was a bug and all of lae'zel's romance cutscenes played one after another in act 1. I thought it was probably a bug, but then I was like idk maybe she's just like that?
My first playthrough was as dragonborn Monk with the way of the fist. It was pure joy to jump across the whole map and punch shit. I didn’t try a lot of different classes yet, but i’ve already wanted to play as Shadow Monk, cause i think it is the most fun you can get in the game
I really like the open hand monk too! so very satisfying to handle the bosses in one or two rounds!
Lol I was a open hand dragonborn monk as well on my first. Was playing as my pet gecko
I usually respect Astarion into shadow monk and haven't regretted yet. With a gloomstalker also on the team and if you have them both running the shadow spell (advantage on stealth checks) then you can get somethibg like +15 bonus to stealth checks.
Reeee, reeeee, your fun is different than mine!
But really fun fun tierlist. It's always nice to hear someone explaining their favorites and how they feel about class rather than: "It does big numbers - S+"
I love that you are ranking classes based on fun and balance, not power.
always happy to see the Druid class getting the recognition it deserves ☺
I kept reading it was horrible and now I'm playing as a druid and it's so much fun!
I just started playing and my chsracter is a wild magic sorcerer, and I have karlach as a wild msgic barbarian. I embrace chaos. Pretty fun.
i cannot figure out barbarian to save my life, i really like sorcerer, cleric, and monk
Two handed weapon. Intimidate conversations. Rage at people trying to fight you, it halves physical damage. Throw enemies at other enemies.
Think in all caps!
Barbarian might be the simplest class in the game. Enrage, hit stuff, and tank damage. Even Champion Fighter is more complex with deciding when to use your action surge.
There are several unique barbarian dialogue choices that are quite funny (like one of them the dialogue when you see the bugbear and ogre having sexy time in act 1), but same with you I cannot find the fun in barbarian class in term of combat.
@@yohanes2034I really love the wild hearts, but throwing berserkers are a little too boring for me. Wolf heart is sooooo strong and allows for really synergistic melee fighters, and elk heart basically gives your whole team a second stack of longstrider. Barbarians are really simple and really strong, so it’s probably best to multi class into more interesting playstyles while keeping their busted passives.
@@yohanes2034You should try the Thunder Tiger build. It was one of the most fun play throughs I had. Once I had boots of stormy clamor, gloves of belligerent skies, and hamarhraft it was a really engaging control build as early as mid-act 1
I just got a massive boost of dopamine because you dropped this vid. You're my favorite creator on UA-cam right now bar none. Keep it up brother.
Bard always give the funniest playthroughs by far
I cant stop playing as a sorlock they kick so much ass
agreed. my triple crit eldritch blast with mortal reminder is so much fun with sorc metamagic
My only issue with this video is that you point out that equipment that breaks the game can be avoided, but then act like feats that break the game are mandatory. You don't have to take tavern brawler if you think it's not fun
Berserker barb was robbed, throwing enemies is instant s tier knocking it down due to tavern brawler, an optional feat entirely separate from from the class is bs when the list is specifically supposed to ignore optimal play
Most fun I had was with 4 bard party. No minmaxing, no seriousness, just tons of fun. Having a literal traveling band was just a cherry on top.
Some friends want to get grouped up for a 4-man tactician run. Since I don’t have to try and be optimal, would you increase the “fun” tier of Wild Magic Barbarian if I were to make sure I am ALWAYS standing next to friends when I rage?
To keep the radiant burst armor fun, I like giving it to a Paladin. That way they are trading durability for offense and they are not having quite as many instances of radiant damage to make the effect too powerful (ie applying it with Spirit Guardians)
My first playthrough was just pure Warlock and I loved it, second was a Barbarian/Druid half orc who would shift into an owlbear if he got too angry kinda like the Hulk but he’d also be really kind to those who deserved it. I love making actual characters instead of just seeing what can do the most damage
I slightly disagree with one take, granted this isn't more on the fun aspect but more mechanics. I find the Life Domain to be a super strong super class. Those additional heals younget with single casting along with its channel divinity AOE heal is really good. In the attack on Moonrise Towers, I was able to keep all the Harpers alive during that battle by sinply casting Mass Healing Word and its channel divinity. I do sgree, every other cleric has access to the same healing buffs via magical items, but in my opinion, Life Cleric is the one that'll keep you alive and active, especially in higher difficulties. Spoiler!!!!!!!
Only time I felt its weakness was in the battle against the clerics of Shar, with their anti heal Chill Touch along with the battle against Ketheric Thorm when he has his anti heal aura.
In my honor mode playthrough I had Lazael as a tavern brawler fighter thrower with the trident. Was insanely powerful but I hated the huge AOE dmging my own team and also any civilians. The other huge downside is the arc being blocked by the enviroment.
I will never play another throwing class even though they are among the most powerful in the game. For me they are C class.
I recently started a barb throw build. And i agree on your take on the tb feat. It is hillarious for a while though with the amount of damage you can get already in act 1
In my current game i Also run shart as a life Cleric/paladin ancient. She Also has a dip in mage so is my magic support the extra heals have saved me quite a few Times and there are a couple of good early game items relate to healing that makes those aoe heals life cleric and ancient paladins get. Getting both blade ward and bless on your character when you heal them is a fun and nice combination. Obviously this is a multiclass so doesnt speak for the whole life cleric character
I like this theme, different than classic dpr tiers
Most fun character i've ever played was a 6 archfey warlock/6 college of swords bard.
High charisma, decent spell list, and when you get pact of the blade and college of swords both online, then you can be an absolute monster in melee too. I also used the gloves of dexterity and armor of agility for ridiculous AC. That plus a defensive flourish, and you're basically untouchable (except AoE's). You can duel wield hand-crossbows for the hell of it too, although you'll already have eldritch blast.
It was decent early game but became an absolute powerhouse during act 2. Lore bard also looks amazing but I couldn't resist the main character energy of being a bard with amazing rapier skills.
I enjoyed this very much! I have only played so many classes and getting a good idea of how the other classes play is good content, especially since you are a very funny person. You also articulate your thoughts very well.
Thanks very much!
I’ve tried mostly every combo now. My favorite is still SH as a Monk Cleric. Her running around with Guardians on while punching the hell out of everyone is my favorite fight mechanic.
I'd love the option to switch on the AI on companions in combat, so they fight on their own :-) That would make for a lot of frustration and fun :-))
I thiught the "i like the sound of my own voice" line was a joke but goddamn i never heard someome tale that long to explain a life cleric 🤣could tellcypu were habing fun though
Before I start watching I wish to say. Nature Cleric S++ tier fun
Nailed it!
Me over here taking notes on the most boring characters to play because they’re too powerful for my Honour Mode run.
I don't have a problem with any build being too strong. Just like BG1 and 2, there are many ways to personalize your difficulty level. In my current run, I'm not using tadpoles or stealing. Neither makes that big of a difference, but it changes the flavor a bit. Next run maybe no using potions or scrolls.
I think it’s a sign that the first honor mode run I did where I wasn’t a 2/10 bardadin ended up getting corrupted.
As much as I love classes with convoluted abilities, I just can't resist the pure joy that comes from throwing a dead goblin at their friend as a barbarian gnome I think that says a lot more about me than the game.
Fighter-Champion with 20 strength - Basketball Gate 3
I love the concept for this piece. I'd almost characterize it as "design-focused" vs "optimization-focused" or even "roleplay-focused". Very fresh & interesting.
Looking forward to part 2!
Foreplay focused
Around the time I started playing baldurs gate, I had just joined a friend's campaign with a duergar trickery cleric. I was surprised that this was a character I could almost exactly port over to bg3! However, the two factors that really got in my way were:
1. invoke duplicity being SO BAD. nowhere near as useful as it in in dnd.
2. shadowheart also sharing the same subclass? I don't know if this is just me, but "uniqueness" is something I really value in a character. I want to play something that not many people see, and the fact that my super-unique-in-theory build had a matching companion, added on to the fact that I now pretty much had to respec said companion- it kinda ruined the fun for me.
I once thought up the clever idea of casting Sanctuary on my Invoke Duplicity clone to keep it up longer.
For some reason, it insta-killed the duplicate. I wasted an action, a bonus action, a spell slot, and my channel divinity on entirely nothing.
I have never played any D&D game or even the other BG games, but I’m having so much fun playing as a bard in BG3. Do I know what I’m doing? Absolutely not but I am enjoying every minute of it and learning in the way. This video was very helpful for future saves.
Awesome, glad to hear it!
Eagle heart barb leaping from the top rope is probably my favourite martial character battle moment so far
I played Lore Bard with my Tav and I was very satisfied... My major frustration was cleric - my Shadowheart was missing too much for some reason
I can't disagree really with any assessment here, though I might differ on rankings a bit. True that swords bard, and light domain cleric are "too good" at damn near everything, but I personally have no issue with my party being optimal - Especially when they are that fun to play, and role-play. With a one lvl dip in storm sorc, at lvl 1, the light cleric feels more like being an X-Men, than a high fantasy adventurer. Personally, that just makes me very happy. Honestly, despite having played with both, I don't think I would ever run BG3 w/o either of them.
I am even considering also running a lore bard, on my next play, just because its such a fun and reactive class. Unsure if my compulsion toward efficiency will allow me to run two party-face skill-monkies, but I can't shake the feeling that would be the most fun to play.
Fighter: ill fight rhe bad dude!
Wizard: detect thoughts to say the right words.
Swoed Bard: some boring Charisma dialog.
Berserker Barbarian: ROAR! (Smashes door with rock)
Great video, definitely going to play bard next play-through. I think that's the most important part, not the op of classes but the fun of them, otherwise why are we playing? Druid is my favourite, I used the raven to blind larger enemies (the surgeon battle was a walk in the park) and owlbear to sponge and dps battles when I didn't know what I was up against
The core issue with thrown weapon and unarmed attack is really just the feat Tavern Brawler that needs to be reworked. I really dislike when a friend in my group plays Monk just to use Tavern Brawler. And I like that you lower the fun factor for OP classes like Bard or Cleric.
My biggest issue with casters (despite loving them so dearly) is that clerics and wizards basically have too much good stuff, not because it causes choice paralysis because you usually have a very clear idea of what you should cast, but because their limited use abilities tend to fall in the "too good to waste" category.
So if you run into an encounter where you know exactly what to cast (such as a big group of enemies standing packed together where you can hit all with a crowd control or damage AOE) you always weigh the option of casting that spell against saving the use and killing them normally because there might be something even worse around the corner for which you would want to cast another spell that might potentially do more damage to a more dangerous creature.
For clerics it's even worse because they literally run into a situation where they have some really good heavy damage spells but also run the main status and/or elemental damage protection part of the team. So I generally always bring one cleric and one spore druid.
I might actually go melee next playthrough.
Any cleric can't go below A tier at the very least for one reason - Spirit Guardians and rats/ravens. There nothing more enjoyable in the game than rat waves off themselves by running at you.
This is an interesting list. And, if you look at the core classes the base characters start with it's even more so.
Only about 50% of the 12 million people who have the game have gotten out of the first act (steam statistic). MOST players just aren't experiencing a lot of the game (60% of the players haven't gotten out of act 2). I'm assuming this also means a lot of people aren't multiclassing and a lot of people aren't changing their class (only about 15% of players are using hirelings .. I just don't think people are really exploring all the content).
I think this means most people stay with what the character starts as. So, the fiend warlock, the arcane rogue, trickster cleric ... and on and on.
Most of those didn't rate particularly high as a single class experience.
Before I watch this. Based on your DEFINITIONS youre gonna call wild magic fun and S tier and its NOT. >:(
There. Helped your metrics.
My personal most enjoyable is warlock. I get twelve lvl 5 spells per long rest, which is simply insane (3 spell slots refilled with short rest, three free short rests per long rest (two standard plus one from brinna brightsong stationed in camp specifically for that purpose )). Eldritch blast attenuated with potent robe and agonizing blast is a fucking MONSTER. Disonant whispers is one of the most useful spells in the fucking game. Lvl 5 Armor of Agathys plus cull the weak is such a beast you intentionally provoke opportunity attacks on lower hp enemies just to watch them off themselves. And a plethora of situational spells like crown of madness, hold person etc to choose from. I finished honor mode with it and it was amazing.
Totally objective…
“This video is not completely objective”
“How many other lies have I been told by the council?”
ngl i really love tavern brawlers for druid exactly where it's at. Without just slapping 5 extra flat damage on top of every owlbear attack, it's not like owlbear just trivializes the game. It sits at a 85% to 90% to hit, and considering that druids already took the hit of not being able to have their moonlight recast in wildshape, its only fair
Is that a nature cleric in top tier? I 100% Agree, lvl 3 wiping groups solo with a single spike growth is amazing lol
I've been playing for about a week now so I'm still a super noob, but I have 2 characters I'm playing so I'm hoping to fast track my graduation to just the basic noob fairly quickly. I can't decide which I like more the open palm monk multiclassed with the thief subclass from rogue or the Dragonblood sorcerer multiclassed with warlock (I can't remember the subclass name only that it was the middle option of the 3 available). The problem is I have too many ideas and I just want to keep creating new characters to test theories but there would be sooooo much wasted time in doing that so thank you for doing the work so that I don't have to 😅
Harping about light cleric I'm disapointed there's no dark cleric subclass ;-;
Wildheart barb eagle is very fun. Jumping from the top rope with no downside is great.
Wild magic barb unfortunately sucks, the effects are so boring. I rarely used the bonus action surges from what I recall they don't scale well at all.
Currently playing as Marika from elden ring, a dark urge light cleric. I just recently unlocked the slayer form and found out that spirit Guardians works while transformed!
It's funny cuz my first campaign on normal was with a DB monk/ 4 elements and I didn't feel like they were as weak as people kept saying forreal. Game is really not that hard so I feel min-maxing is kinda pointless.
Nah this guy is wrong as fuck about healing not being viable in bg3. A level 12 life cleric can heal a minimum of 30 hit points to every parry member per turn. The most damage ive seen an enemy do is around 80 to 100 damage, a life cleric could heal all of that in one turn
Idk if it's just me but every time I use warding flare the enemy still hits me and when I use reckless attack I always miss
Up until the last boss fight I had a blast playing as a college of lore bard, super fun class
When it comes to spore druid summons I still say they are the most fun to use in a tactical manner as long as you manage to get them to where they need to be. Yes there are more powerful summons, but having these means that you can actually do the "zombie horde" tactics that so few games allow you, setting up opportunities for your ghouls to do actual damage.
Also the zombie plague debuff is just funny, I have on more than one occasion found myself going out of my way to make sure specific annoying enemies die while afflicted with this just to have them raise from the dead.
This one made me really rethink the classes thank you.
I think having some borken builds you can abuse if you know what you are doing is what makes bg3 so fun to me. It would be a bit more boring if every class was perfectly balanced
Now I want to try multiclassing a moon druid with a wild magic barbarian, it might suck but it sounds like it would be fun. That's assuming you can rage and then shapeshift and maintain the rage.
I respectfully disagree about your life cleric ideas. I'm mainly use my life cleric as a standard cleric in combat and just in case I do need healing I have some pretty good healing spells on hand to get someone back up but I don't use them as a healing bot every round. And they're out of combat healing prayer spell is pretty good too
You don’t even have to multi class lore bard. Level 6 spell for your elemental summon, Otto’s dance or upcasting
i dont really see how a class being strong makes it less fun. tavern brawler is definitely the strongest thing in the game, but even then if you misplay your party can still get one shot.
The most fun class is not going to class, staying at home playing
death to mathematics
Throwing weapons? I killed a boss by having Karlach throw a pair of shoes it him (she was out of weapons to throw :D )
my favorite classes are bard, rogue, and tav brawl barbarian. i havent played many other classes, but those are my fav to build so far
I have been searching for most FUN builds since I started playing, and getting frustrated with the min maxed focused guides. I'll definitely use this video as reference for me and my friend as we start our new playthrough ☺️
swords bard with crossbows 👌🏻
6 bard
4 thief rogue
2 fighter for action surge
Tbh they need to shange the blade flourishes. They dont work like that on table top. They should not have a ranged option either.
I know this is old now, but I'm fairly certain that it wasn't a "design decision" to only have 1 character work during dialogue. I'm 99% sure it's a pain in the ass to code it and they just figured it wasn't worth it. Since the game isn't completely scripted like so many older RPGs where other party members jump in mid conversation, and there are hundreds (or thousands) of ways to go through the conversations, whereas in games where multiple party members can be involved its like 1 or 2 outcomes.
Edit: they could probably have taken a page from Owlcats Pathfinder games and had the party members with the highest skills be the ones "doing" the checks though. Like if you had an arcana check and your party face was -1 but you had someone with +4 in your party it used their skill instead of your party faces.
Yeah exactly! Literally all they need to do is let your party use their skills like every other party-based rpg in the last decade - this is a solved problem!
Hilarious! Especially the fact that you actually have to tell people you're being sarcastic.
i played a bard, to the end. a champion is so so much better. high damage reliable.
Thanks for the insight into all the subclasses! My favourite multiclass builds are some kind of Bard/Rogue, and Moon Druid/Wildheart Barbarian - they're both fun in completely different ways, with a good blend of RP and combat.
Im having the time of my life with a necromancer bard. I don’t even have to do anything myself. My 3 elementals, 4 flying Gulls, 5 normal Gulls, 1 Shadow, and 1 spider do everything themselves while I just buff them and sit back playing “the power”.
sharrans unite, trickery domain is best
I'm currently doing a run as Shadowheart origin as a 5/7 Gloomstalker Trickster Dark Justiciar and it is super fun. I will agree the early tools are quite meh but level 5 onward is great. Fear and Banishment are super strong and having a stronger invisibility option is incredibly useful.
It's been awhile. Can't you just put your weapon to throw on the hot bar and right-click and choose to throw it that way? Never used throw much I could be remembering wrong.
Yep, but that's still 2 more clicks per attack than any other weapon, which seems pretty solvable to me just by letting you set it as your default click-to-attack action
Wardin or monk is the funnest in my opinion
“That does reflect poorly on you as a person 💀 “
I love your content… thanks
My favorite play style is to yeet as many people off the map as possible
That smiting class is the most fun obviously
I wish you could put thrown weapons in a storage container in your inventory and still access them from the Hotbar.
Yeah - I also wish you could set a thrown weapon as your attack to use it in one click rather than activating throw every time
Word of the day "Satisfying"
Cleric because I love dnd religion.
I love listening to your tier lists while working, gets me excited to play baldurs gate wen i go home
rather early for this one , needed a long video to enjoy