Great comparison video! I felt the same when I got on both, love the Endless for all around rolling and the NN for wizard. Keep up the great work! You have an amazing camera presence and need to make more UA-cam videos!
Great breakdown and review of these two frames. When I was looking into getting the Endless frames, I came across the NN frames and was really stuck between the two since I couldn’t find any information about the differences between them. I ended up getting the Endless 80’s and really like them. I plan on getting the NNs in the future though. Your video will definitely help the novice skater in deciding which frame to get. That index card idea was really good too.
Great debut on UA-cam! I was really thinking about taking one of these, because I'm a little bit tired from 3 wheels and your input is very helpful! Thanks!
same happened to me. I wanted to try something new out, thats why I now have the Trinity Endless frame :) Sadly The day I got these, I went sick so I can not really use them right now. But looking forward to the days after I cured.
Finally someone made this! Well done! Subscribed. Also, for me endless is clearly better: better all round rocker, weights less, lower ride heigh and it´s sturdier (look for Lino ´s video where he as both products). Also, IMO, it looks better
The rocker on the Endless 90 is 0.8mm (+/- 0.05mm) front and back. Measured with a filler gauge on my Endless LR 90 (Trinity mount) with only the bearings and spacers on (eliminates the wheel diameter inconsistency).
I think the one misconception is not that the Endless is not higher due to both wheel sizes it accommodates(it could probably be even lower with just the 90 option) but that the NN is actually intentionally higher to accommodate more skates. At least that is my understanding of the increased height of the NN. I also highly recommend the NN Dragon V.m's if you're looking to do wizard skating.
This is exactly the information I was looking for! Annoyed that NN doesn't seem to list the frame's weight on their website, however they do list the base length as 273mm while Endless lists theirs as 276mm, just another small difference!
Fun review. I wandered into a pair of NN90's having skated a flat frame rockered with 76,80,80,76mm wheels. I found going straight into the NN with 90mm wheels incredibly easy and have enjoyed the added stability. My sense of the machined rocker on the NN is mostly impacted by the wheel durometer. I started on 84A, then 85 and now 86A. I like how the added hardness has made the frame rocker more defined. ALso, slides are more fun.
@@fidoslavfidorov1512 Many, The machining and subsequent quality control is suspect. The Frames have weak sidewalls and are not square, with small amounts of warping. So some wheels need to be forced into the frame while others just float around in it. They also have enough flex in them that they come loose from the boot, much faster than any other 165 frame I have ever used. If the axle bolts arent self loosening, they are getting stuck in the frame. The frame is really just a comedy of errors. I liked the way they looked, for a while but didn't like the way they sounded, they are loud and thin not solid sounding.
I have the Endless 80 and 90. They are extremely versatile for different styles. You can ride in a calm rocker, extreme rocker, or tri skate. I like the 80 because you can put 84mm wheels on all axels but you can also put 84mm on the inside and put 80mm on the outside. This gives you about 2.75 mm in rocker. If you were to do this with the 90, you would need to put 84mm on the outside with 90mm on the inside and it gives you about 3.75 mm in rocker. It really is about preference and what you want to do. For me, I like the 90s for trail riding and inside speed skating. The 80s are great for slalom, freestyle, and general skating.
Honestly I don't detect any difference. It may be because I don't have the skill to distinguish but they are both more solid that than Powerslide Vision frame where I do notice a bit of flex. Both while skating and by simply squeezing the side walls together.
Hi Dawid and Zach. A good way I’ve found to subjectively test frame stiffness is not by squeezing the frame walls together, but by skating on one foot with a deep inside or outside edge (45 degrees or more). A frame that isn’t very stiff will feel like it’s slowing down as you go deeper on the edge. A stiff frame will roll smoothly without the onset of additional friction in the bearings due to loads caused by racking of the frame.
I buyed the NN dragon 5x76 does anyone know if they are very different from the original wizard frames? thanks, nice video and honest comparison preciated.
I have pr76 but only dragon 80 V-rocker, these are completely different... If you have v.m rocker it should be closer 🤔 On the Wizard you roll on 3rd and 4th wheel if weight is centered and the transition to the other wheels is just super smooth... But it's double price so if you enjoy dragons, you might want to save your hard earned money ...
With the difference in rocker, it looks like the intent with the NN was to have the third wheel be the "main" or pivot point, while the Endless intends for you to be on the two middle wheels naturally. Try balancing the NN on the third wheel and see if the second and fourth wheels end up having the same rocker as both each other and the first wheel when resting on the middle two.
Great comparison! I've been been back and forth between the endless 100 and the ronin or ninja. If I were to go with the ninja I'd get the V rocker. I'm curious how the NN V rocker compares to the endless...
Great video! i have a size 46EU freestyle skate with 243mm 4x80 frame, i find easy to trip on the front or back sometimes. Should i go for 276mm 4x90 or even a longer 4x100 with a 300mm-ish frames?
Do you have observations about the wear of the wheels on those two frames? I'm skating Endless 100 with 88A wheels (ride is kinda rough so I'm switching to 85A for next season). They wear evenly although the front 3 wheels wear into a wedge shape much more than the last, rear wheel. Also, have you noticed any difference between those two frames in stability during high speed skating?
I don’t really see any difference in wear of wheels between the two frames. Yes I too always see the fronts become wedge shape and the backs more rounded. It comes from pushing hard on the heels when sliding to a stop. As for stability, yes the Endless is more stable because of its more subtle rocker and slightly longer frame. But it turns slightly less easily than the NN.
Good job bro! Thanks for the detailed sharing! Do you intend to sell your frames by any chance? 😊 Also, how about Rockin frames? They cost around the same as NN and Endless.
I am not selling. I use one pair that I leave at work and the other for home. I would like to try the rockin frame but probably with a UFS Seba boot and that is not in the budget at the moment.
Thank you for this detail explanation, I am a beginner, I want to build my first skate with Endless Trinity 84 Frame, My question is which Liner should I select?
I think the weight difference is because the Endless has more of its material carved out between the axle holes and also at the top between the frame mount holes. It also has an extra set of holes for the alternate configurations, so less materials due to those extra holes. And the paint on the NN might also add a gram or two. I just bought the silver NN 90 and they should arrive soon. I'm very excited. This is a great comparison video. After skating them a few months, do you still prefer the Endless over the NN's?
Nice video. Thanks! I have similar doubts between V rocker in Ninja and endless 4x90 . I have never tried rocker, always flat, my foot is 38,5 (24,5 cm). What do you recommend to me?? Level: intermediate-advanced
Having a small foot, you probably would be happy with the Endless 80. But, the shorter your foot, the less a rocker will matter. You may find very little difference between the Endless 80 and a standard 243 mm flat frame. Having said that, 90 mm frames with a rocker are completely fine and you will find them very manueverable. If I were going to skate a flat frame again, I would only skate a 243 mm frame. Even a 276 mm flat frame is hard to turn, no matter how big your foot is.
I should say that it is true that you will create a rocker naturally on a flat frame. Only buy a rockered frame if you have the funds to experiment because once you have skated a flat frame for 20 miles or so, it will be rockered all on its own.
I am not sure about that. I can’t think of any reason they wouldn’t be. I heard that someone had success using the powerslide heel brake on the Endless but I would bet it would work on either.
Hi Dave, I can confirm that brakes do work with the Endless frames. We list brake compatibility for all our frames on our website. You can find that info both on the product pages and the Help page/widget.
Any would be great and you should not worry about getting the wrong one. If you are truly a beginner, the Endless frame definitely works with Powerslide heel brakes. I am not sure if the others do.
@@passiveaggressiveskater9554 Im using the Endless Trinity 4x90 frames with the medium powerslide break and had to cut a small triangle out of the break, to make it not block my last wheel, but than it fits perfectly. Im an intermediate skater, but after only one day of T-Breaking I didnt want to make my wheels suffer anymore, thats why I stick to my Heel Break. Much cheaper to Replace and it doesnt disturb me that much.
Yes, I would love to do that but I don't have access to that frame. Someone else also pointed out that they are NOT both 276 mm. The NN is actually shorter than the Endless. That too would make the rocker feel a bit more dramatic. But in the end, I am not going for fairness here. Just letting people know to the best of my ability how they feel relative to each other. Hopefully that answered a few people questions. I would love to see someone do a video of the V vs the V.m. I really was guessing which one I would like more when I bought the V.m. because I was not sure how they would skate differently.
yea, how should this be a "Fair" comparison, in wich topic? There is no competition in expressing the behaviour of these frames. One is more stable and less agile and the otherone is more agile and less stable. Every skater will choose his subjective winner out of his preferences. And as many people commented, many people are using both....
I didnt know they were out of stock because I haven't needed to buy. I had considered buying wizard frames but I got so tired of the Seba SX boot and wizard frames being out of stock.
Hi Jamie, many of our dealers presently have stock. I would act quick, however, since they don’t seem to stay in stock for long. You can find a list of our dealers on our website.
I find rockering does not matter because once you wear your wheels the built in rocker goes out the window (if you rotate with wheels in the same position) and you develop your own “personal natural rocker”. I find the rockering on the Endless more of a convenience/quality of life feature to have with new wheels.
The fact that our wheel are always changing shape makes skating an always changing experience. If you keep each wheel in its same spot on a flat frame but just rotate them, then the rocker becomes more and more pronounced over time. But the bummer is that if you rotate them from 1 to 3 and 2 to 4, then you will in the first day or so actually have an anti-rocker setup. There is a potential for something similar to happen on rockered frames too but you would have to let things go a very long time before rotating. There is no perfect solution. I know that many people keep calipers on hand and simply measure the wheel size and pick 4 that have the rocker size they want. But you have to store lots of old wheels to do that. I tend to keep the same 4 wheels and do the 1 to 3 and 2 to 4 rotation until they all need to be replaced.
@@passiveaggressiveskater9554 I find by rotating 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4 and I always end up with similar rocker patterns on my Endless 4x80, and 4x110, as well as on all my regular flat frames. That’s how most of us at Shop Task do it, Leon’s pretty keen on rotating wheels this way to develop your own rocker, fit to your personal skating style. This is how I like to do it personally so I never have to deal with calipers and the rocker always feels familiar no matter how many wheel rotations I do.
Great comparison video! I felt the same when I got on both, love the Endless for all around rolling and the NN for wizard. Keep up the great work! You have an amazing camera presence and need to make more UA-cam videos!
Great breakdown and review of these two frames. When I was looking into getting the Endless frames, I came across the NN frames and was really stuck between the two since I couldn’t find any information about the differences between them. I ended up getting the Endless 80’s and really like them. I plan on getting the NNs in the future though. Your video will definitely help the novice skater in deciding which frame to get. That index card idea was really good too.
What did you go with
I was waiting a long time for this kind of review between the two frames! Thank you for sharing! :)
Much appreciated! As I am also an intermediate skater, I am grateful for this breakdown as I look to buy my first pair of rockered frames.
Great debut on UA-cam!
I was really thinking about taking one of these, because I'm a little bit tired from 3 wheels and your input is very helpful! Thanks!
Anytime! I hope it helped.
same happened to me. I wanted to try something new out, thats why I now have the Trinity Endless frame :)
Sadly The day I got these, I went sick so I can not really use them right now. But looking forward to the days after I cured.
Your comparison methods are so freaking helpful, thank you.
You're so welcome!
Finally someone made this! Well done! Subscribed. Also, for me endless is clearly better: better all round rocker, weights less, lower ride heigh and it´s sturdier (look for Lino ´s video where he as both products). Also, IMO, it looks better
Thank you, this video helped me to decide, because I feel better with subtle rockering, to do both wizard stuff and general skating
Thank you very much for this smart comparison, it's an amazing job because you went straight to the essence of the difference. Congratulations!
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for and very well put together may I say. Thank you good sir!!
thanks much for a pretty good comparison. appreciate the amount of work that goes into your videos
The rocker on the Endless 90 is 0.8mm (+/- 0.05mm) front and back. Measured with a filler gauge on my Endless LR 90 (Trinity mount) with only the bearings and spacers on (eliminates the wheel diameter inconsistency).
This was easily the most helpful comparison video I’ve seen thus far! Thank you 🙏🏼
I think the one misconception is not that the Endless is not higher due to both wheel sizes it accommodates(it could probably be even lower with just the 90 option) but that the NN is actually intentionally higher to accommodate more skates. At least that is my understanding of the increased height of the NN. I also highly recommend the NN Dragon V.m's if you're looking to do wizard skating.
This is exactly the information I was looking for! Annoyed that NN doesn't seem to list the frame's weight on their website, however they do list the base length as 273mm while Endless lists theirs as 276mm, just another small difference!
I never thought to measure the frame length. I just assumed they had were the same.
Interesting video, I loved your rocker comparison and all other measures
Answered the question everyone has but nobody seemed to address. Awesome! Endless it is.
I am glad it helped. Thanks for the kind words.
I liked the detail in your video. Amazing job, thanks!
Thank you!
Super helpful! Thanks for this!
Love your use of Ind3x cards 5:14
Great video, its the comparison I was looking for some time!
Thanks, this is a very comprehensive analysis. Excellent and practical content👍🙏🙏
Great video! And welcome to UA-cam. 🙂
Exactly what I needed, thanks. Keep it up
congrats man! keep being honest and videos this interesting
Great review, thank you. This was very helpful.
Love this approach. Well done!
Fun review. I wandered into a pair of NN90's having skated a flat frame rockered with 76,80,80,76mm wheels. I found going straight into the NN with 90mm wheels incredibly easy and have enjoyed the added stability. My sense of the machined rocker on the NN is mostly impacted by the wheel durometer. I started on 84A, then 85 and now 86A. I like how the added hardness has made the frame rocker more defined. ALso, slides are more fun.
That makes sense since the softer wheels will compress more and ride more like a flat setup.
are you satisfied with the ninjas? im considering buying those
No, I got rid of them. Frames proved to be cheap.
@@inclinedplanes what was the issue
@@fidoslavfidorov1512 Many, The machining and subsequent quality control is suspect. The Frames have weak sidewalls and are not square, with small amounts of warping. So some wheels need to be forced into the frame while others just float around in it. They also have enough flex in them that they come loose from the boot, much faster than any other 165 frame I have ever used. If the axle bolts arent self loosening, they are getting stuck in the frame. The frame is really just a comedy of errors. I liked the way they looked, for a while but didn't like the way they sounded, they are loud and thin not solid sounding.
I have the Endless 80 and 90. They are extremely versatile for different styles. You can ride in a calm rocker, extreme rocker, or tri skate. I like the 80 because you can put 84mm wheels on all axels but you can also put 84mm on the inside and put 80mm on the outside. This gives you about 2.75 mm in rocker. If you were to do this with the 90, you would need to put 84mm on the outside with 90mm on the inside and it gives you about 3.75 mm in rocker.
It really is about preference and what you want to do. For me, I like the 90s for trail riding and inside speed skating. The 80s are great for slalom, freestyle, and general skating.
Great video , keep it up . Subscribed !
Thanks, will do!
Thank you for this comparision !!!! The only thing you can add is how stiff they are...
Honestly I don't detect any difference. It may be because I don't have the skill to distinguish but they are both more solid that than Powerslide Vision frame where I do notice a bit of flex. Both while skating and by simply squeezing the side walls together.
@@passiveaggressiveskater9554 Real useful video. Thank you for you time 🙂👍
Hi Dawid and Zach. A good way I’ve found to subjectively test frame stiffness is not by squeezing the frame walls together, but by skating on one foot with a deep inside or outside edge (45 degrees or more). A frame that isn’t very stiff will feel like it’s slowing down as you go deeper on the edge. A stiff frame will roll smoothly without the onset of additional friction in the bearings due to loads caused by racking of the frame.
Fantastic technical review.
Got both as well. But got endless 90 and nn 100 ronin. I prefer NN ronin. Love ronin for everything except aggressive
More videos please! Love the content :D
Much appreciated!
Thanks for posting this video.
Have you tried blading with 80 or 84 wheels with these 90 frames?
I buyed the NN dragon 5x76 does anyone know if they are very different from the original wizard frames? thanks, nice video and honest comparison preciated.
I have pr76 but only dragon 80 V-rocker, these are completely different... If you have v.m rocker it should be closer 🤔
On the Wizard you roll on 3rd and 4th wheel if weight is centered and the transition to the other wheels is just super smooth... But it's double price so if you enjoy dragons, you might want to save your hard earned money ...
I know this was a while ago but how did you like skating 80mm wheels on a 90mm frame?
With the difference in rocker, it looks like the intent with the NN was to have the third wheel be the "main" or pivot point, while the Endless intends for you to be on the two middle wheels naturally. Try balancing the NN on the third wheel and see if the second and fourth wheels end up having the same rocker as both each other and the first wheel when resting on the middle two.
i own both. EXCELLENT REVIEW
Great ! Really help
Nice job 👍
Loved the video endless all in for me, as 42-43 i will fell stable on 90?
🎉🎉thank you for studying so I can buy new whees!😺
TOP COMPARISON
Great comparison! I've been been back and forth between the endless 100 and the ronin or ninja. If I were to go with the ninja I'd get the V rocker. I'm curious how the NN V rocker compares to the endless...
I had a hard time deciding between the V and V.m versions as well. It would be great to skate them before buying them.
Great video! i have a size 46EU freestyle skate with 243mm 4x80 frame, i find easy to trip on the front or back sometimes. Should i go for 276mm 4x90 or even a longer 4x100 with a 300mm-ish frames?
I would go 4x100 for your foot size
Would you know between Endless Trinity 100 and NN Trinity 100 which is shorter?
Good stuff 👌🏻
Great video, just waiting for endless to restock the 90/¹¹⁰
Hi there, check out any of our dealers which have all of our stock at the moment.
@@endlessblading Could you post a link to any of your affiliates. I'm in the Caribbean having to source your frames online 👌
@@dworksmaintenance www.endlessblading.com/pages/where-to-buy
my foot length is 261mm, what Endless frame length do you recommend for me, knowing that I am a beginner?
Do you have observations about the wear of the wheels on those two frames? I'm skating Endless 100 with 88A wheels (ride is kinda rough so I'm switching to 85A for next season). They wear evenly although the front 3 wheels wear into a wedge shape much more than the last, rear wheel. Also, have you noticed any difference between those two frames in stability during high speed skating?
I don’t really see any difference in wear of wheels between the two frames. Yes I too always see the fronts become wedge shape and the backs more rounded. It comes from pushing hard on the heels when sliding to a stop. As for stability, yes the Endless is more stable because of its more subtle rocker and slightly longer frame. But it turns slightly less easily than the NN.
Good job bro! Thanks for the detailed sharing! Do you intend to sell your frames by any chance? 😊 Also, how about Rockin frames? They cost around the same as NN and Endless.
I am not selling. I use one pair that I leave at work and the other for home. I would like to try the rockin frame but probably with a UFS Seba boot and that is not in the budget at the moment.
Thank you for this detail explanation, I am a beginner, I want to build my first skate with Endless Trinity 84 Frame, My question is which Liner should I select?
I have only tried stock liners. Fr1, my fit second skin and fat boy. All were fine. I would love to try intuition liners some day.
I know this is very specific. But how thick was the index card you were using?
Thanks for the review. I'm in doubt... I have a boot EU 45... What's the best... 4x90 or 4x100?!
I have not tried the 100 so I can’t give much guidance there. I would be interested in what you think if you buy them.
I think the weight difference is because the Endless has more of its material carved out between the axle holes and also at the top between the frame mount holes. It also has an extra set of holes for the alternate configurations, so less materials due to those extra holes. And the paint on the NN might also add a gram or two. I just bought the silver NN 90 and they should arrive soon. I'm very excited. This is a great comparison video. After skating them a few months, do you still prefer the Endless over the NN's?
They are both great and you only notice the difference when switching between them.
Nice video. Thanks! I have similar doubts between V rocker in Ninja and endless 4x90 . I have never tried rocker, always flat, my foot is 38,5 (24,5 cm). What do you recommend to me?? Level: intermediate-advanced
Having a small foot, you probably would be happy with the Endless 80. But, the shorter your foot, the less a rocker will matter. You may find very little difference between the Endless 80 and a standard 243 mm flat frame. Having said that, 90 mm frames with a rocker are completely fine and you will find them very manueverable. If I were going to skate a flat frame again, I would only skate a 243 mm frame. Even a 276 mm flat frame is hard to turn, no matter how big your foot is.
I should say that it is true that you will create a rocker naturally on a flat frame. Only buy a rockered frame if you have the funds to experiment because once you have skated a flat frame for 20 miles or so, it will be rockered all on its own.
👌
How to manage the wheels Wear?
Thanks. Are either compatible with a heel brake? I only use one in steep hilly areas.
I am not sure about that. I can’t think of any reason they wouldn’t be. I heard that someone had success using the powerslide heel brake on the Endless but I would bet it would work on either.
Hi Dave, I can confirm that brakes do work with the Endless frames. We list brake compatibility for all our frames on our website. You can find that info both on the product pages and the Help page/widget.
great
So for beginner only want cruising and stopping and turning which one is good for me ? Thanks
Any would be great and you should not worry about getting the wrong one. If you are truly a beginner, the Endless frame definitely works with Powerslide heel brakes. I am not sure if the others do.
@@passiveaggressiveskater9554 Im using the Endless Trinity 4x90 frames with the medium powerslide break and had to cut a small triangle out of the break, to make it not block my last wheel, but than it fits perfectly.
Im an intermediate skater, but after only one day of T-Breaking I didnt want to make my wheels suffer anymore, thats why I stick to my Heel Break. Much cheaper to Replace and it doesnt disturb me that much.
👍✌🏽
Video is exelent, but a comparison between Endless 90 and nn ninja v would be more fair, as rockering is more similar than nn vm, afaik.
Yes, I would love to do that but I don't have access to that frame. Someone else also pointed out that they are NOT both 276 mm. The NN is actually shorter than the Endless. That too would make the rocker feel a bit more dramatic. But in the end, I am not going for fairness here. Just letting people know to the best of my ability how they feel relative to each other. Hopefully that answered a few people questions. I would love to see someone do a video of the V vs the V.m. I really was guessing which one I would like more when I bought the V.m. because I was not sure how they would skate differently.
yea, how should this be a "Fair" comparison, in wich topic?
There is no competition in expressing the behaviour of these frames.
One is more stable and less agile and the otherone is more agile and less stable.
Every skater will choose his subjective winner out of his preferences. And as many people commented, many people are using both....
Is the NN Frame you have the V Rocker or V.M.?....... NEVERMIND!
Ha! Yes, I should have put that in the beginning.
Thank you for doing this video! It's exactly what I was wondering myself! Now. When are endless frames coming back in stock?
I didnt know they were out of stock because I haven't needed to buy. I had considered buying wizard frames but I got so tired of the Seba SX boot and wizard frames being out of stock.
Hi Jamie, many of our dealers presently have stock. I would act quick, however, since they don’t seem to stay in stock for long. You can find a list of our dealers on our website.
I find rockering does not matter because once you wear your wheels the built in rocker goes out the window (if you rotate with wheels in the same position) and you develop your own “personal natural rocker”. I find the rockering on the Endless more of a convenience/quality of life feature to have with new wheels.
The fact that our wheel are always changing shape makes skating an always changing experience. If you keep each wheel in its same spot on a flat frame but just rotate them, then the rocker becomes more and more pronounced over time. But the bummer is that if you rotate them from 1 to 3 and 2 to 4, then you will in the first day or so actually have an anti-rocker setup. There is a potential for something similar to happen on rockered frames too but you would have to let things go a very long time before rotating. There is no perfect solution. I know that many people keep calipers on hand and simply measure the wheel size and pick 4 that have the rocker size they want. But you have to store lots of old wheels to do that. I tend to keep the same 4 wheels and do the 1 to 3 and 2 to 4 rotation until they all need to be replaced.
@@passiveaggressiveskater9554 I find by rotating 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4 and I always end up with similar rocker patterns on my Endless 4x80, and 4x110, as well as on all my regular flat frames. That’s how most of us at Shop Task do it, Leon’s pretty keen on rotating wheels this way to develop your own rocker, fit to your personal skating style. This is how I like to do it personally so I never have to deal with calipers and the rocker always feels familiar no matter how many wheel rotations I do.