If you have length of paracord equal or greater than your rope then why not just pull the bow line knot from the bottom why should it have to come untied above you? Just pull and pull until the bowline is in your hands untie it and then pull the p cord behind it. Way safer. Right? Am I missing something? That's how I make retrievable slackline anchors in the park way high up without climbing...
This is to limit the wear and tear on whatever is used as the anchor, as well as whatever the rope is running against. If just a single person went down a canyon and pulled the whole rope it wouldn't be a big deal, but when hundreds of people start going down the same canyon, the sandstone will start to have rope groves worn into them, and if you do that around a tree it will eventually die. This is a way to eliminate that. Also, the more significant the rope groves that are made, the more likely your rope is going to get stuck while trying to pull it down.
There are easier and safer ways to build a retrievable rappel. I feel like this puts a lot of unnecessary risk on the last person since a bowline is no longer safe without a backup knot. Not to mention the friction of trying to pull the knot undone and all the extra hardware that can now get stuck above while pulling down the ropes. Maybe there’s a use case for this but I don’t really see the benefits over other methods.
Well if you already have a tag line then you’d be better off in most cases just using a blocked rappel. That’s the best/safest answer. There’s also the macrame knot for low angle stuff or boxed solutions like the Beal escaper. This method just adds unnecessary risk in my opinion. You’d never catch me rappelling on an unfinished bowline.
@@GregoryPagano What about using an alpine butterfly. One end of the rope to climb down and have the other end to pull the knot down when on the bottom?
You are right about gear potentially getting stuck somewhere below the anchor when releasing and retrieving the pull chord. Some experience and good judgement needs to be used. Even then there is still a chance that something could get stuck. The same is true with other types of retrievable anchors, rope blocks, etc. there is an element of risk in just about everything.
De verdad piensas que se deben de poner los parabolts,puntos fijos tan cerca uno de otro? Tu crees que te los vas ha encontrar tan cerca uno de otro? En pared artificial si,por otro lado,hay que utilizar siempre mosquetones y cuerdas homologadas.
I can't think of anything way. I would think your grappling hook would be for climbing up, then you have to build an anchor without the grappling hook to descend
What happens when the last climber is rappelling and the tag line gets caught around their leg and they pull the bowline apart? All of these retrievable systems with the tag line that dismantles the anchor knot are scary. Even if they get down safe there is going to be gear falling down. Why wouldn't you tie a running bowline around the rappel strand with a tag line instead?
The method you are suggesting still requires the rope to run the full length of the rock. The idea here is to leave no trace and to create a system where the rope just falls unweighted and does not create grooves in the rock.
There are better ways. Using a bowline without a backup knot is SUPER sketchy. If you're going to do this, at least tie a long tail, but still, just use a better method.
Hell no- I'm absolutely not rapping on an open bowline.
my exact thoughts
Nice setup . I've just run through the anchors and performed double line rappel .
But once the abseil is longer than half your rope you'll need a different technique...
Thank you, I have been looking at how to do this for ages, great video :)
If you have length of paracord equal or greater than your rope then why not just pull the bow line knot from the bottom why should it have to come untied above you? Just pull and pull until the bowline is in your hands untie it and then pull the p cord behind it. Way safer. Right? Am I missing something? That's how I make retrievable slackline anchors in the park way high up without climbing...
Sandstone is very prone to damage from ropes being pulled. So, when canyoneering it is good to look for options to reduce e rope drag.
This is to limit the wear and tear on whatever is used as the anchor, as well as whatever the rope is running against. If just a single person went down a canyon and pulled the whole rope it wouldn't be a big deal, but when hundreds of people start going down the same canyon, the sandstone will start to have rope groves worn into them, and if you do that around a tree it will eventually die. This is a way to eliminate that. Also, the more significant the rope groves that are made, the more likely your rope is going to get stuck while trying to pull it down.
A MARVELOUS solution! Thank you! Elegant!
well explained, but the last person rappeling takes the most risk and has really to check his bowline before descending...
Yes, there is more risk, he must keeps the load on the rope
Cool but sketchy without a backup , they have a tendency of untying themselves.
There are easier and safer ways to build a retrievable rappel.
I feel like this puts a lot of unnecessary risk on the last person since a bowline is no longer safe without a backup knot. Not to mention the friction of trying to pull the knot undone and all the extra hardware that can now get stuck above while pulling down the ropes.
Maybe there’s a use case for this but I don’t really see the benefits over other methods.
Can you explain/name other methods?
Yes, could you please name/explain the other possibly more interesting methods?
Well if you already have a tag line then you’d be better off in most cases just using a blocked rappel. That’s the best/safest answer. There’s also the macrame knot for low angle stuff or boxed solutions like the Beal escaper.
This method just adds unnecessary risk in my opinion. You’d never catch me rappelling on an unfinished bowline.
@@GregoryPagano What about using an alpine butterfly. One end of the rope to climb down and have the other end to pull the knot down when on the bottom?
You are right about gear potentially getting stuck somewhere below the anchor when releasing and retrieving the pull chord. Some experience and good judgement needs to be used. Even then there is still a chance that something could get stuck. The same is true with other types of retrievable anchors, rope blocks, etc. there is an element of risk in just about everything.
De verdad piensas que se deben de poner los parabolts,puntos fijos tan cerca uno de otro? Tu crees que te los vas ha encontrar tan cerca uno de otro? En pared artificial si,por otro lado,hay que utilizar siempre mosquetones y cuerdas homologadas.
How would one go about retrieving a grappling hook after descending? Especially if it's quite high up?
I can't think of anything way. I would think your grappling hook would be for climbing up, then you have to build an anchor without the grappling hook to descend
@@LiveRogue What about a 2nd rope to one of the grappling hooks that way it can be pulled off?
А вы это пробовали сделать, после рывка или нагрузки? несработает🧐
What happens when the last climber is rappelling and the tag line gets caught around their leg and they pull the bowline apart? All of these retrievable systems with the tag line that dismantles the anchor knot are scary. Even if they get down safe there is going to be gear falling down. Why wouldn't you tie a running bowline around the rappel strand with a tag line instead?
Bad things could happen forsure
The method you are suggesting still requires the rope to run the full length of the rock. The idea here is to leave no trace and to create a system where the rope just falls unweighted and does not create grooves in the rock.
What method for singe stand retrievable rapp do you suggest for mussy hooks?
Great video!
Nice video. Helpful. Need to practice it and work out any kinks. So many ways to ghost
Yep. Many ways to ghost. Even more ways to BECOME a ghost. Stay safe!
If that cord gets caught and undos the bowline…goodbye. Much better and safer ways.
Love it
Sweet, thank you!
Very neat 😀
There are better ways. Using a bowline without a backup knot is SUPER sketchy. If you're going to do this, at least tie a long tail, but still, just use a better method.
There's no question that there are better ways. Absolutely have to assess the risk for your own party.
That didn’t look like a bowline knot..
It sure is.
Truly a terrible technique that should never be used. Just use a simple tag line tied to the rappel rope.
Uh ?
I don't even climb and i know this could end in disaster
It has its place. And if you can't figure out what that place is, then to be sure, its not a trick worth knowing