How to set up a retrievable abseil / rappel and some pro abseiling / rappelling tips!
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- Опубліковано 18 кві 2020
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In this one we look at setting up retrievable abseils and how to use them, along with some simple pro tips.
Please do fire away with any questions...
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What a soothing and chill presentation....can you make another channel where you just read us bedtime stories?
Haha, I couldn't inflict that on people!
lmao that is exactly what i thought as well
Great video, well presented, learnt loads
I needed to refresh my abseil technique and this was perfect. I climbed vector then abseiled down. Thanks for reminding me of the good memories ❤
Glad you liked it! Love Vector, great route 😊
I'm putting this into practice today on my own sling mountain, as i am a novice checking off the bucket list.
I really appreciate your approach with safety in mind.
Nice one, hope it went well!
I'm new to this sport and don't know any of the lingo. Your video was a very easy to understand tutorial and I really appreciate it. Everything I've seen so far, they skimmed over the introductory stuff at the beginning and I couldn't understand the rest of their videos. Your video was a godsend. Love from Australia 🇦🇺
Hi Yuri, glad you liked it!
JB this is one of your best videos. I’ve watched so many of these rap videos and the micro tips here (clip the line you are going to pull, prussik before ATC) are spot on, logical, clear. Really great.
Glad you liked it!
excellent tutorial with very good examples! Thnx =)
You're welcome!
this is such a great video! as you were explaining, I was thinking why you did the first set up and not some of the more common ones, and it's like you read my mind and answered them towards the end. Loved how you explained the rational of the different methods possible and I learnt a lot. Thank you for the video!
Really clear Jez. The pros and cons of the different methods was spot on. You clearly showed the impact of the f. prussic hitting the plate or a something that stops it working. This seems to be overlooked on the other films I have seen - it is mentioned, but not clearly demonstrated. 👍🏻👍🏻
Cheers! I like to be thorough but it does leave to long videos!
re 7:17 Worth emphasizing the 1-2m tail is to make conversion to ascending easier.
Just found your channel and I'm loving it. I've always wanted to know how this is done. I've done some rappelling into caves and the thing I've seen happen the most is getting hair or shirts caught in the rack or other rappelling equipment. It's very important to develop a plan to be able to take the weight off of the rack to do self rescue. an ascender with a foot loop and attached to the harness is a way to deal with it. Luckily, all the times I've seen it happen, there were other people able to reach them and help them.
Joining ropes : I'm a simple Offset Overhand bend sort of guy and because it is simple and that can be worth a lot if the shit hots the fan like weather ( maybe in an alpine situation) cold, dark ,gloves etc. Should I decide for extra peace of mind I either do a ½ Gibbs as Andy K calls it though its not actually the real name for it, or tie a stopper knot with double strands - slightly harder when things are agin you. I have always found snugging up a second knot is a lot more faff than the other alternatives.
Best intro yet😁 another great video Jez. Really liked the discussion at the end about the advantages of different abseiling set ups and the pros/cons of them. Thanks for the help🙂
I might work on my intro game!
Hey Jez, brilliant videos, thanks. I always do a buddy check, checking the knot & anchor and calling out which rope we're pulling at the bottom
Nice one, glad you've enjoyed them!
Great refresher
I had no internet and just kinda winged it. It was great fun but I had no pressic or back up. I’m learning now hahah. Thanks I have watched 5 videos on this yours is the best ! Thanks
I use to look many rappelling video, I often disagree with some technic but in your case I can say this is the best video I saw. great job !!! By the way doing a set up on the ground to test technic and set up gear is a thing I wish any climber do and constantly do again after many months without climbing.
Brilliantly done. You kept it to the point and didn't bore me! I'm just starting out and need someone to learn from. Thanks for your contribution.
Glad it was helpful!
Terrific video! Lots of useful info to think about and a great delivery (I second the bedtime stories comment). Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Just discovered your videos... Great job! Cool to watch and some new things to learn, thanks!
Glad you like them!
Single length beal dynaloop as my PAS and a quickdraw with locking biners has been my multipitch rappel technique of choice lately. No worries of a sling getting caught up in the prussik.
I use another trick to remember which rope to pull. i put 2 (double) overhands in 1 end and just one in the other. I then always do it so that i have to pull on the rope with the 2 knots in. Off course remember to undo the 1 knot in the rope you're sending back up
Like it!
Really liked the prussic Lakes footed into the two attachment points. Not something I've done before but I'll definitely try it
Worth a go to see if you like it!
Very good video. Great tips. Thanks.
Nice video!
Thanks!
Rope bomb effect 🎉
Super helpful, very clear 🙌
Glad it was helpful!
Have you ever tried a rope bomb? Bonus pro tip, they look great in photos mid throw!
Yes I did. I was doing a mutlipitch route in Arco. The route with a gradual incline so the rope bomb was a perfect solution as it just roll down easily :) oh, btw, what is the prusik you are using. I don't think I have seen it before :)
@@ulastopka it's a Simond Sewn Prusik, 60cm :)
How about some #slingmountain merch? I'd rock a tee for sure! Great video as always
It exists 👊 teespring.com/en-GB/stores/jbmountainskills
Great video Jez👍
Thanks 👍
thanks for the knowledge
My pleasure
Hi Jez. Loving the videos, please keep them coming! Last year I saw someone soloing a climb at Tryfan Bach and then back out. Luckily they had a mate ascending alongside them. The climber didn't have a harness, so their partner did something with a sling or a set of slings to improvise a harness. Could you do a video of improvising those sorts of things if kit breaks on you mid climb/about to abseil off a pitch? Not sure if that would be appropriate to advertise to the climbing world, but thought it could provide some interesting discussion.
Glad you're enjoying them! That's an ace idea! I'll deffo do that one.
Want to buy me a coffee or the boy a dog treat?! www.buymeacoffee.com/jbmountain
Love the channel!
Thanks!
I'm a big fan of Petzl's Connect Adjust system as my PAS. My rappel carabiner can be clove hitched to the center of the lanyard to create the extended rappel just like you did with the 120cm sling, but it is adjustable at the anchor.
I do like the Petzl Connect, and do use it sometimes, I just find it unnecessary on most trad, they're a good option though :)
Hey Jez, Spot on vid's mate! Take a look at Rich Carlson's vid on the different types of overhand knot. He makes a strong case for the double overhand (as opposed to two stacked overhands) for joining the ab' ropes. Virtually no chance of it rolling and it's even smaller (and rounder) than two stacked ones so even less chance of it getting snagged. Looks beautiful when properly dressed too. I'll pop in a link if your happy to have external links in you're comments.
I'll check it out, cheers!
@@JBMountainSkills Whack this into your search bar mate: Flat Overhand Knot - the European Knot of Death.
Hi awesome video. One big question is what can I do if the rope gets stuck with something for example a tree branch after I finished rappelling when I’m pulling the rope . Or if I forgot to take the knot out.
What are my options there ?
Thanks for the video very informative
Good question! Short version is, maybe you have enough rope down to lead back up on, maybe you have to cut the rope, maybe you set up a kind of haul system to really crank it down and if you're a person of faith, pray hard that it'll pull!
It is potentially a nightmare scenario!
Videos still looking ace man
cheers!
JB what about using a petzl connect adjust style lanyard and clove hitching a belay plate into it while using the main top attachment to clip your next anchor in a multi abseil situation? is this safe? if so you have your atc and safety on one line, you can still create slack in-between to test your system before unclipping too.
Perfectly good way of doing it and I have done so. I wouldn't normally climb with a lanyard of any sort though. It always feels like a sling will do multiple jobs.
Thanks for the video :)
While you were talking about using the carabiner that you use to attach yourself to the anchor as a marker for which side to pull, I thought of another method to mark that: You could use the backup knots that you tie anyway to stop yourself from abseiling off the ends anyway. For example, you could tie an overhand in the side you pull and a barrel knot in the side that gets pulled through the anchor. That way, you untie the easy to untie one first, thread it through your next anchor, untie the harder one to untie, then pull away.
What do you think of this method? At this point, I am still an arm chair theorist since I haven't climbed any routes long enough to necessitate multiple rappels, but I'm planning on picking up a season pass to yosemite come spring, so I'll certainly have lots of skin in the game by then.
Sounds like it would work, I'm just not sure there's any advantage to it?
Cheers Mate.
When you're doing the leg wrap, it's usually safer to go around your waist than just the leg to protect you from tipping over. Other than that loved the presentation :)
I'm not convinced there's any need for that in reality, you've still got a prusik on in addition to the leg wraps as well. I've seen that done, but I'm sticking with leg wraps.
Glad you liked it :)
Hi, thanks for the awesome video. I’m a relative novice in trad climbing have been watching these for fun. My question is, why do you tie to the two ropes together in the beginning? Is it just to increase the length of rope you can abseil down?
Pleasure 💪 Yeah in that instance it’s just to get a longer abseil 😊
On abseil anchors, do you have a preferred diameter of tat rope, or what is your usual choice of tat/sling/whatever to attach into your anchor? Do you ever use in situ tat, or do you clean and replace? Also do you carry abseil rings/maillons for this purpose, or rely on stuff left in situ? Cheers! Great video, can’t get enough of sling mountain
awesome instructional video- thank you. Could this technique could also be used with a single rope rather than tie the 2 ropes together at the top just loop the single rope around the top ?
Glad you liked it! Yep just double the single 😊
Flemish Bend FTW
What about if there’s no mailon? Is it ok to run the rope through a sling or bit of tat directly?
Also, if on single rope ok to take rope around solid tree or large boulder etc so it’s doubled that way and then rappell?
Cheers
Short answer yes it would normally be ok to run it through the tat / sling directly. Even one rope being pulled through could damage the tat though. So the general gist is: emergency ab fine, but on in situ stuff not fine.
Pt2. Yes also fine, check the rope pulls first though, easy to get one stuck. A big down side is pulling a rope down from a tree will damage the bark and if that’s done regularly may kill it. I would like to protect the tree by using tat, I like trees!
Thanks JB great advice as per usual…… not just a great instructor but conscious of the environment as well 👍🏻 top bloke
Another great video, as always very thorough. One minor point, at 07:00 you advocated single overhand knots as end stopper knots. I'm not really used to seeing that advocated. Sitting on the couch it wasn't too hard to convince my 8.4 half with an overhand knot through my belay tube, couldn't accomplish the same with a barrel knot/"half double fishermans knot" or eight on a bight which I'm used to seeing advocated by manufacturers/trainers. It's all a bit academic if you've got a friction hitch below the device, but would have thought it would be the more generalisable solution ?
First person down is always going to have a back up, so I'm happy recommending overhands tied properly, with decent tails :)
Why do you prefer a sling to a lanyard? Is it just because it's easier to tie the knot? I was thinking adding a knot/clove hitch to the middle of my Petzl connect (leaving the arm free to clip to an anchor) to connect to the belay loop carabiner would be a nice setup for abseils.
I find the Petzl Connect doesn't have much left over length for staying safe and testing the anchor before committing. It works, but just not quite as convenient as a sling. My Rock Empire PIP is a bit better than the connect as the cord is thinner so the knot eats less cord.
@@JBMountainSkills Thank you, thank makes sense!
Since when have you been joining the two ropes with a fig. 8 instead of a overhand knot ?
Oops sorry l miss watched it ,you did use an overhand🤭
does that knot in the sling not become really difficult to undo after being weighted?
thanks for all the great educational content, ive been binge watching all your videos!
Not really from abseiling, thicker slings might make it easier to undo though, depending on weight :)
Really like your videos! Keep doing this great work! It will be much much easier to follow if I could understand you better. Maybe you can improve your audio or slow down your speech a bit. Great content though!! Keep up👍👍
Glad you like 'em. Think this was an older video, they're slowly getting better!
Hi Jez, would you set up a figure 8 the same as an atc? i.e. would you use a sling to extend it and have you prussik on the belay loop? I figure so, but just to make sure... got one to play around with recently, and trying to optimise safety etc...
I only use a fig of 8 for group stuff and then the setup is different, but if I was using it in the context of this video, it'd be the same setup.
@@JBMountainSkills yeah i assumed as much, nice one.
You say you prefer to put sling lanyard through harness top and bottom loops rather than belay loop. Would you also do this with a sewn end lanyard such as Petzl Connect Adjust?
Good question! I'm 99% sure the Petal Connect instructions show larks footing through the belay loop so it would be hard to advise anything else.
Petzl only show it being attached to the belay loop.
HI Jez, if you didn't have a prussik could you use a sling as one? Great video by the way!! Thanks!
Steve
Yes, but then you shouldn't use it as a sling after that. The heat/wear you get when you use a sling as a Prussik is enough to retire it.
Yeah you can. Be careful if it get's heated up though (it probably won't in a normal ab situation)
Thank you for the video, what mm is the Prussic please
Pleasure! 5.5mm that one :)
@@JBMountainSkills Thank you
VT prusik is specifically for the third method you showed, they are thicker than your usual 5 or 6mm cordlette and longer also tied slightly differently (can also be released under load). I would not want to do what you showed because if you're motoring on down then let go for whatever reason you shock load the prusik which this type is not strong enough for IMO, considering it spends it's life being rubbed in the same spots by a bigger rope, only rated 4kN new for 5mm. As you say, the belay device is doing nothing and 100% load goes onto the prusik. I've also heard of a sling being tied as a prusik for passing knots. 🤔
The second method can fail if your foot gets stuck in a bit of rock and lifts your leg, in an unconscious situation that would be bad. It will also have to be clipped to the side your brake hand is or it'll just keep jamming up.
I'd always extend the belay device off myself. 👍 Excellent description of the pros and cons of each method, great video, thanks JB.
Good knowledge!
I was reading about VT prusiks the other day as it goes, interesting.
The Prusik I use is a proper sewn one so is rated to 22kn, feels worth it to me.
@@JBMountainSkills Thanks, I like to get an idea of the mechanics of stuff that's saving my life before, but so far I've only done via ferrata and indoor so pointless going out and buying tons of gear. I'd 100% trust 5mm on the brake strands, 6mm would be better still. That sewn one looks the biz, and looping it to the belay loop is a nice tip! 👍 I'd be a bit paranoid about the stitched section getting rubbed by the rope so I'd have to keep that close to the belay loop. Hopefully I'll be able to get out later this year, North Wales is nearest to me.
Please don't take this as a case of me trying to teach you to suck eggs, you're far more knowledgeable than I am and I appreciate your time and trouble making these videos. 👍
What happens with prusik carabinered to the guild on the belay plate?
I bring the rope under my butt and wrap it on the opposite leg. i use that for long stops. Better support.
What brand are those half ropes?
Also another great video, keep it up!
Cheers! They're Fixe but not sure on the model I'm afraid... They were a bargain though, about £140 for the pair! Don't forget to check out our EpicTV link in the description for a discount code.
Thankyou, and I’m going to be making the most of that! Had such a blast last year on a trad development course of yours, these videos are the perfect follow up to help refresh skills in these times!
Hope you've managed to get out a bit since then pre lock down!
JB Mountain Skills we managed to get out loads afterwards, can’t recommend your courses enough!
Hi Jez, what prussiks are you using and are they 50 or 60cm?
60cm Simond Sewn Prusiks :)
you were born to teach
Very kind!
If the prusik fails for any reason, is there a possibility of shock loading the sling? This question comes from an inexperienced climber, but as the saying goes there are no stupid questions!!
No. The sling between the harness and the plate is just passing force from you to the ab rope via the plate. The sling will be loaded when the prusik is taking the weight if the autoblock is below the plate as the autoblock just takes the place of the hand. If the autoblock is being used above the plate then the ropes will provide the dynamic stretch but you shouldn’t be extending the plate in that set up as that could put the autoblock out of reach.
Ps. Autoblock is another term for a knot in the French prusik group but describes what it does not what it is reminding you that you could replace it with for instance a mechanical device like a jumar clamp if you want to, as you might in caving or big wall climbing where you are expecting to ascend ropes.
don't you find the knot you put in your long sling hard to get out? have you tried it with the beener tied into the same knot? make the knot but before tightening clip in on the double side.
What kind of prusik is that and how long is it?
60cm Simond one, similar to Beal Jammy
@@JBMountainSkills thank you
Great video! I hadn't seen the prussic directly girth hitched to the harness attachment point before that's a cool trick to mitigate the risk of dropping it. Do you need to be concerned about the reduction of it's strength from doing that or any other downsides?
Cheers!
A knot definitely reduces the strength, but not to a point that is really relevant in this application :)
Great tips thanks. Instead of tying knots in both rope ends, I tie another overhand joining bottom of rope, creating a loop of abseil rope. Avoids issues if you pull rope without untying bottom knot. I guess the negative is rope could get twisted more easily?
Shit I've just let go so many times to clean gear. Yikes.
I'd suggest not to make a double knot at the rappel point. This not really adds safety but can easily get stuck at obstacles when pulling down the rope...
everyone knows a knot reduces the sling by 50 to 60 % but it does work just not bomber to me