I appreciate the info! FWIW, the truck Coyote since 2021, uses a different firing order. 351 and 302 HO order vs the OG flathead V8 order for the Mustang. It also uses cast iron exhaust manifolds required for truck durability. The 351 firing order is also for durability as 3 follows 1 instead of 5 following 1 on the same rod journal, theoretically easier on the front main bearing. Also sleeved 5.2 Predator blocks have exceeded 2900 hp using the stock crank.
Yeah, I was really surprised to learn that the Hemis were still using iron blocks. I would have thought, at least the cars: Challenger, Charger and 300C, would have aluminum blocks for fuel economy and road-handling purposes.
@@AutoGuild, same. I've been a GM guy all my life, but I recently bought a 2022 Dodge Challenger R/T (5.7L) because it's the only car with a V8 and manual transmission that I fit in comfortably (I'm 6' 5"). So far, I love it!
the hemi has been around much longer and in WAY more cars so naturally its going to have a much more expansive aftermarket. the coyote is barely half the age and only in the mustang and f-150
@zacharymorris9917 really don't matter when it was started the aftermarket isn't bigger than the coyote. The coyote is endless. At best its equal to if that.
Coyote achievements Brett Lasala quickest proven street legal car on 275s 6.33 @ 225mph sleeved oe block, ported GT350 heads, oem coyote crank. 2500rwhp @ 47 psi Factory sealed coyotes have gone 7s Quickest pass ever with a Coyote billet block but ported oem head 5.67 @ 265mph The highest brake mean effective pressure of any regular mass produced V8. Zero Stellantis engines have matched these milestones. Not even close
@kenphilpot1903 a Viper V10 still hasn't clocked a 5.... John Mihovetz has gone 5.88 at 256mph with an almost entirely oe parts 4.6 4V. 281 in³. Dodge/Hemi = Hype and nothing more
@@chadkent1241 I mean still the fastest / quickest production car . Viper held the Nurburg record for rear wheel drive …/ stock block / head viper ran 6.68 @ 220 . Idk what class but a gen 3 ran a 3.944 at 184.72 this year . Just saying that displacement always wins
The Coyote overhead cam engine can be pushed well beyond its factory redline. In my opinion, the limiting factor, which cannot be easily changed by Ford in how ECUs are designed and calibrated, is the amount of computer processing power (which includes both computation and pulse processing) available in the ECU (the core design). The 7500 RPM redline is considerably low for the Coyote engine configuration, it should be closer to 8500 RPM, and we should ask ourselves to make more power Ford looks to a compressor (Supercharger at lower RPMs) rather than pushing the redline higher to give the same HP increase (which could easily support the fuel flow when using both port and direct injection). In its basic form without variable cam timing and increasing the spring rates and type, you could easily hit 9000 RPM, with a rev limit at 9200 RPM. So why does Ford not embrace high revving design. I think, simply put, it does not fit into Ford's available ECU family corporate strategy. With ECU design, when you get close to 10,000 RPM, with sequential fuel and spark for a 4 stroke engine, the electronic design and control strategies change considerably from what would be considered a mainstream V8 family controller, designed to operate at a much lower RPM and have a low cost.
There are two main reasons they don't rev that high. One is a good reason, the other is just sad. The good reason is piston speed. When you push this up too high, reliability and service life goes down rapidly. The 5.0 has a pretty long stroke for it's size; right in between the Hellcat and 392. Going to Honda S2000 revs with that stroke length would really be pushing it. The GT350 really is getting on towards the limit for OE reliability standards. You can put 2618 forged pistons in and go faster, but you won't run that engine for 200k miles, and you absolutely won't meet OE cold-start emissions. Speaking of cold-start emissions, that's the bummer. Turning high revs NA really demands a good tuned-length long-tube header. But, it's basically impossible to meet current cold-start emissions requirements without a pre-cat very close to the exhaust port for a quick light-off. High revs also demand a long-duration cam, and unless you're using a VTEC-like system with dueal cam profiles (the Coyote doesn't), that fat nasty cam is going to blow hydrocarbon emissions badly. This is why everyone all got rid of their affordable super high-winding NA monsters at the same time. It's not that Honda decided that revs were silly and they needed to make 6,500 rpm turbos instead. It's quite simply illegal to make something rev like an S2000 today unless you can throw GT3/Z06 money at the car. Also, higher revs really reduce the amount of time that direct injectors have to do their thing, which means anything revving over 7k or so probably needs dual injection, which adds cost.
@@LordGwynn I'm talking about the emissions standards at the OE level. Their cars all get tested by the EPA, even if they're getting sold in Montana. They make decisions based on that. We can modify to get around that, but it involves a lot of expense. It's not that hard to turn a Coyote to 9000 with rocking forged pistons and a Haltech. But both of those things would be illegal for Ford to do, and one of them is going to slice 200,000 miles off of the engine's service life.
I drove a Mustang with the 5.0 and then a Charger with the 392. The 392 makes the 5.0 feel weak AF! I bought the Charger and have been loving it for 4 years now.
I always find that funny. The coyote cubic inch is smaller but has so much crap on it that it still takes up more space. When it comes to engines simplicity saves you money.
For stock Coyote blocks and horsepower, Gen2 is where it's at. Gen2 blocks handle much more abuse than Gen3/4 because of the spray cylinder liners used in these versions.
Really? Do you have proof of this, or are you just saying this to prop up what it is you own? An OEM GEN3 Coyote is good for about 800 WHP before its strength needs to be brought into the equation. At that point you have to beef up the rotating assembly quite a good bit before the block becomes the weak link. It's been 17-18 years, but my member berries are making me think that Ford developed the plasma lining back in the early/mid 2,000's, and Nissan had to pay Ford to be able to use it in the R35 GTR.?.? Do R35 blocks have strength issues? This was before Ford introduced it in the 13/14 GT500. Are the 5.8L Modular guys struggling with supporting high HP #'s due to the spray in linears, and are they comverting to 5.4L blocks, or aftermarket resleeving? How many people are supporting well into 4 figure #'s with factory 18+ blocks? Why would high HP just destroy the factory lining? GEN3/GEN4 Coyotes use big/longer/stronger head bolts than GEN1/GEN2 Coyotes (went to longer 12MM bolts from the older 11MM bolts just like GEN5 LT did compared to LS) so why isn't this ever factored into block strength when comparing factory GEN2 to GEN3 blocks?
@@JROC734The biggest factor I believe in making a stock GEN2 better for high hp boosted applications is the 11:1 compression vs the 12:1 in the Gen3. 11:1 is right in the sweet spot where as 12:1 is right at the limit where you wanna be on a boosted application running pump fuel. This means you can run more aggressive timing on the GEN2 before detonation becomes an issue.
@@Thechildishmandingo so a Terminators 4.6L is a better engine due to its more boost friendly CR? How about a Hellcat engine? 11:1 is a very high CR for boosting in the traditional sense. For example look at how little boost people used to feed B18C5's and F20C's. The ITR engine had less compression than a GEN1/GEN2 Coyote, where the 2L S2000 engine had the same 11:1 CR. But they were considered too high a compression engines to excel at big boost, but at small boost they would match what many other engines of similar displacement made with noticeably more boost being pushed through them. How many people have pushed stock longblock GEN3 Coyotes into the 4 figure HP range? Probably more than GEN1/GEN2 Coyote have been push there on a stock engine. On top of that GEN3/GEN4 Coyotes can support more boost, and/or compression than GEN2 Coyote without having to pull a ton of timing, whether talking N/A, or boosted due to the fact that it uses dual port injection which is a big advantage to the old port injection setup. Then on top of that it has heads that flow a decent amount better, and it doesn't take as much boost with GEN3 Coyote to = the same power as it does with GEN1/GEN2.
@@luisontiveros6377 It doesn't matter how badass your heads are, if you're using 2 valves, you're wasting surface area, and flowing less air. You can make the valves as big as you want, but because you're cutting 2 circles out of another circle, that is very geometrically inefficient.
@@bubbleman2002 I'll let the past 3.5 generations of two valve wedge head SBC know they're doing something that's literally impossible according to you. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Not exactly my guy. It's a comparison game no matter what. You start with something/anything then. You do start with airflow. But then you need a piston and compression that'll USE that airflow. The bore shows you how much airflow you can add. You can have 11:1 compression with a 2 litre piston, and it'll never get 3 litres without boost so an intake that'll deliver 3 litres perfectly will deliver 2 litres like shit. An engine IS NOT AN AIRPUMP. It has more in common with you grandma's vacuum cleaner. It's creates a vacuum that it lives off of, it's the reverse of a pump, the only reason exhaust happens is because of the chemical reaction of combustion. In a perfect world you wouldn't have exhaust, just a device sucking in air and fuel and producing nothing but power
Yeah and the BGE has forged crank and forged pistons. Which makes adding a turbo or supercharger less of a danger for the bottom end of the engine. Iron block has more strength for that upgrade as well.
Nice job! While that high-RPM rip of the DOHC engine is intoxicating, the BSFC apparently ain't so great (how much fuel per horsepower). Imagine the fuel economy you could get with that hemi or a Chevy smallblock in that (comparatively) light Mustang. Would be nice if you included BSFC data in your future comparison videos, although you could probably only infer it from EPA mileage numbers.
Brake-specific fuel consumption would be interesting to look at. But using EPA numbers may be kinda sketchy as I think they are self reported so who knows how much wiggle room the automakers are using in the numbers? BTW, nice airplane! ;-)
The GEN3 Coyote in my 18 F150 XLT 302A, FX4, crewcab/5.5" bed, optional 3.73 reargear truck only averages about 1 less MPG than the LT1 in my 19 1SS 1LE. Both vehicles turn pretty much the exact same RPM on the highway at any given speed in their final overdrive gears. The F150 weights roughly 5,600 lbs with heavy, O/R focused 20" tires, and the Camaro is roughly a 3,730 lb car with fairly wide, performance oriented street tires. Basically an Alpha Camaro is a way better performance car than any Mustang built on a chassis who's origins date back to the DEW98 architecture, but a GEN3 Coyote is a superior engine to a GEN5 SBC, so the best car would be a Camaro SS 1LE with a GEN3 Coyote, and a TR6060.
Ford could do that, but I think Ford kinda being cocky . Ford been throwing engines in their cars the size of two Shaq shoe boxes at the opps big v8 engines and still walking the Chevy and Dodges down. Ford is a force to be reckon with that's for sure
@wyattgardner3552 if Ford bump that ecoboost engine up to 4.6L, that engine would walk all over Dodge big v8 engine. The Coyote engine is already too much for Dodge to handle. Now throw a 5.8L twin turbo in that Mustang and Dodge will have to put a 12.4 L engine in their Dodge Demon 170 just to keep up with the Mustang
Sorry but real street racing is using stock block stock heads stock crank and going low 6's in 1/4 mile at 2500+ hp at over 10hp per qubic inch is the most ever out of a stock block.
the coyote is an unbeatable platform if you want to dish out straight fades and even as a die hard gm rider i gotta admit that cuz them things good asl😭😭🙏🙏
Thank you I’m a ford man but I’m not bias if it runs I will drive it but from a young age I just love the ford motor company we be speaking German Ford motor company but that to rest and if ford want to beat you in a race believe me that will Big new brewery Ferrari found out
It’s obvious everyone has their favorite and that’s cool to me. I have been Jeep Dodge Ram my whole life. I like the coyote except it’s complicated just like anything Ford builds lately. A 392 hemi or even 5.7 are super simple massive power makers with basically countless options. If a hemi goes down (unless it chunks a rod from absolute abuse) it’s usually not a big deal nor much time to fix it. And the Hemi tick is mostly and easy fix and big load of crap. Once repaired the engines can go indefinitely. I have 2008 Power wagon(bought it new) it’s been ticking for 100,000+ miles now and has 327,000 on original motor never torn ito past the water pump. To me… longevity and serviceability is hands down hemi.
If I'm swapping...I'm taking the hemi. Simple proven design, block is stronger, can be bored out larger. No doubt the coyote is a brilliant design. I want low end pull and more displacement.
Can’t argue with the results a coyote produces. That said, I’m not buying a DOHC v8 with a plethora of unique fasteners and complex maintenance procedures. I’m just old. In an afternoon with a pushrod motor you can: swap cam, replace lifters, pull a head if need be (oil pump anyone? 😁) and not worry about retiming and figuring out a tensioner puzzle. I think the pushrod motors will outlive the coyote if the epa doesn’t get to them first.
Why I love the hemi, easy to fix (yes even the lifter problem can be done in your garage...), lots of power and torque for the money, parts are cheap and engines plentiful. That's a good recipe for the DIYer.
Yes MDS lifter failure was the reason I have a Comp. stage 2 now. Really woke this 392 up and no more MDS. The upgrade will check your talent without turning off traction control. Magnaflows and catch can and that's it. Tuner reset the transmission for better shift as well. . Sounds great and runs great. Been 3 years now with no issues yet. Forged internals next. $$$ issues always. Might as well stroke it up while in that deep as well. High Horse Performance did me well.
I had a 5.0L in a 2012 F150. Supercab short bed 4x4. Adequate for towing a horse trailer and 5x8 dump. I loved that truck. Zero issues until 230k miles. Needed timing redone and exhaust manifolds. Truck was rusted out. Bought a 2020 ram with the 5.7L. Longest wheel base in the 1500, crew cab 6.4ft bed. I like the more low end torque. Coworker's has 65k miles and needed new exhaust manifold studs. Mine has 50k and I'm nervous now.
I have a 2012 Ram 1500 Hemi crew cab 5'7" bed 4x4 with 190k miles on it and mine needed exhaust manifold studs at 137k miles. I did them myself and honestly, it really wasn't that bad of a job if you're a little bit handy with a wrench. Make sure to replace them with ARP hardware though, the factory ones will just crack again. Also not trying to scare you here either, but the 5.7 Hemi's have camshaft and lifter oiling issues caused by a somewhat inadequate oil pump. It's perfectly fine under load, but if you idle the truck a ton eventually you'll need the cam and lifters replaced. BUT! Having done all that myself in my home garage, once you get an upgraded melling or hellcat oil pump installed, it'll be rock solid for many years and many miles. When I had my cam and lifters out I kinda hotrodded mine by putting in a MMX cam and hellcat lifters, but hellcat lifters are a common upgrade to 5.7 Hemi's. So eventually when it needs to be done, get it done right the first time and never worry about it again. Don't have a shop install a factory spec 5.7 oil pump or manifold studs, it'll just happen again! That being said though, those are my ONLY gripes with the 5.7 Hemi, mine has been a fantastic truck for me in all the years I've had it, and it's now been problem free for 3 years and 60k miles and hopefully many many more! Again, not trying to scare you, I'm just passing along some helpful info as a long time owner who's had a few long term 5.7 Hemi powered trucks over the years.
To say the coyote has a simpler cam swap is not true at all. And I'm not sure why you would even bring up hp/cubic ratio. That figure hasn't mattered since all engines were the same cam in block design. You already stated that the coyote is a bigger engine physically so that makes cubic inch irrelevant
Not sure why the Hemi lost points for 4 main bolts compared to the Coyote? What size are the bolts? In my opinion steel threads are stronger than aluminum threads.
Forged rods and pistons. The factory goofed up not realizing what the hotrodders would want. I hope to do it someday and stroke it as well. After all , it's only $$$.
I owned a 2014 Mustang GT and I currently own a 2018 392 TA. So I have pretty good perspective on the differences here. The two cars are about equal in the 1/4 mile. That says a lot about the larger Hemi engine torque. The idea that it can do the same 1/4 mile while carrying so much more car weight is all about the extra torque. It's tempting to point to the Horse power difference but moving weight off the line is a story of torque not horsepower. What I like about one car vs the other comes back to new vs older car experience and oddly enough it's not the 4 valve per cylinder Coyote that comes off as the "newer" tech experience in the driver's seat. The absolutely coolest thing about that Mustang that I do miss is found in how it more closely resembled the diving experience in older cars. You gotta spin it up to find the power and as you hit the middle of the RPM range it really starts to HUSSLE and GO all the way out to it's red line. Anyone who is older like I am will quickly remember that hot car from their past with the after market cam that sacrificed a lot of low end power to make a bunch more at the top. Between it's live axle, a six speed manual and the Coyote's power band 2014 was the last car produced by Detroit that for better or worse resembled that true old hot rod experience behind the wheel. The Challenger with it's big fat and wide torque curve that starts down low in the RPM range and then carries feels far more modern. It runs hard but it's more linier and typical of most modern V8s.
It is clearly evident that the new "HEMI" is not a HEMI. The chambers have quench pads on either side. Why? Fully Hemispherical chambers are "dirty". Combustion is never complete. The quench pads induce swirl, preventing this problem. "Pent roof" chambers are superior.
Good vid, first of yours I've seen. I roll a Hemi and think it's a better engine, but I can forgive your Coyote bias. Looks like it's time for an LS vs Hemi version though.
I was thinking the Hemi went into production in 1964, but that was the Race Hemi. 1966 was the first year they put it in production cars I suppose. I wish I had that 1964 Fury my dad had or the 1965 Coronet. I also liked his 1967 Formula S Plmouth Barracuda 383/ 4 speed. Then there was that Limelight 1971 Dodge Demon it had a built solid mount 1971 440 with a built 727 torqueflite & 8-3/4 rear that car would haul ass.
Smaller engine= higher rmp, which is great for racing... now if you get a full bullet 6.4 hemi with bullet internals and add a small about of boost hell maybe add some nitrous with the turbo
I Dont know where I saw it, Maybe MotorTrend, maybe Richard Holdener, But the hemi pistons arent as weak as people say, Hemi engines have an aggressive ring gap that will break a piston at 650 hp, putting more gap can bring the engine to 800+ hp
The 485hp on the 6.4 hemi is likely more in the 505hp range considering they routinely put 440+ to the tire through a very heavy Automatic drivetrain and wheel/tire combo. Solid engine. Just wish they didn't have the DoD/VVT BS which causes the lifter failures. Gotta love technology...
14:35 Either the Torque graph is off or the HP graph is off. If the Hemi makes more torque at every RPM than the coyote the HP graph can't cross over the HEMI HP graph. It would climb higher after the HEMI hits redline.
Interesting thing is that we have a 5.0L Coyote V8 in our 2011 Ford F150 making 360 HP and 380 Ibs of torque with 159,000 miles on it and still going strong and a 392 Hemi V8 in our 2023 Dodge Charger Scat Pack Widebody making 485 HP and 475 Ibs of torque.
@kenphilpot1903 5.7 and 6.4 don't hold power under boost like a coyotes do with stock bottom end. They are iron block...and crate engine vs crate engine they cost the same or the hemi cost more with cheaper material.
@@LordJerinza I agree the head flows more and revs help a lot and just looking at the motor the 5.0 is better in a lot of things . I would like a voodoo one day but for me displacement and tq just feel better and what I prefer . Also have yet to lose to a bolt on 5.0 so 🤷🏻♂️
@kenphilpot1903 the voodoo...is awesome. But honestly they are apples to oranges... OHV is not the same as a DOHC... we really shouldn't compare them. Oh really? I'm getting my fbo mustang together now... it would be cool to have a beer run!
@@LordJerinza they are way different . I’m not a dohc hatter . I know it’s better . But on the street I rather have tq . Obviously not comparing 700 plus cars to “ street “ cars but for semi normal traffic I’m taking the hemi
You have a lot of good info in this video good job man so dont take my critique the wrong way I'm just trying to help. It looks like you left out the 6.2L. that and i believe the hemi is larger than 2ft. wide especially the 6.4 and the 6.1L they sport taller valve covers than the 5.7L. Also you contradict yourself in the video when you made the statement all Gen3 hemi's are cast iron blocked (@3:54) and they are, the contadiction comes in when you show the hemi later in the video at (@9:45) where you list the 5.7L as ALUM but the 6.1L and the 6.4L as IRON. i like your video but personally I'm biased I have to lean more towards the hemi than the flerd i mean couchyote. The main reason being that you can run significantly more boost through it than you can the yote mainly from the cast iron block is stronger than a sleeved aluminum block unless you're running an aftermarket block with the required webbing needed to support lots of boost. I know i know your whole video is looking at them both N/A but we all know a little boost goes a long way and when you're boosting and seconds count, cubes most definitely matter. so you put a pair of turbskies on a hemi it'll walk flerd owner's "my pretty pony" everyday, all day. It's a shame "stoleantis" stopped making them, the new TT straight 6 sounds like a ricer and is the laughing stock. Just my 2 cents worth.
This is everything but unbiased. The lack of understanding on everything having to do with engineering is apparent. FEX: What if the coyote was 6.4 liters? It will be a HEMI. Out of all fallacies in this video this one was mind boggling.
ik this doesn't matter but why at 4:24 does the hemi have 2 alternators cars have the left alternator trucks have it up top and wher the new belt start generators BGS are located
2nd and 3rd gen coyotes are definitely capable of making 1000whp with a stock longblock. The liners aren't that much of a problem at that HP level. The aluminator is basically just a regular block with a good set of rods and pistons and is what you get when you want to live at 1200whp or less. As for the cast iron block, no one uses that crap. It's one of Ford's biggest missteps. Idk what made them think anyone would want a block that is 100lbs heavier, but they've been shown that it is about as desirable as a FWD mustang.
Why does everyone care about HP per unit of displacement? That's volumetric efficiency which is just a bigger cam and a bigger hole. The 6.4L has higher flowing heads than a Coyote, and at 330cfm will support 660hp. We don't race HP/L and if you cam up that 6.4L and add long tubes it will make stank nasty nasty nasty power while being smaller than a Coyote that revs higher while making less power. Weight? If you put the engine in the right place in the chassis it don't matter on street cars. I'll raise you one more: aluminum conjoined bore 9.8" deck Mark IV Chevy with a roller cam, massive Pro Stock derived heads, and port injection making 900+hp on pump gas. Still smaller than goofy Coyote and weighs the same. A little longer, but it supports literally DOUBLE the displacement and fits in a smaller hole. Costs less than a Coyote too! I'm not seeing the advantage of the Coyote at all. WE DON'T RACE VE PERCENTAGES!
Yeah coyotes especially gen 2 gen 3 can can handle more than 900 bone stock. No cam, no nothing. Maybe stud the heads tor safety. Of course i would not recommend living at that power daily.
Exactly just add fuel system and boost on any Coyote and they can make some serious Horsepower all on a sealed unopened engine..cant do that with the hemis unless you upgrade the pistons and other things...even a gen 1 Coyote can handle 700+ Horsepower as a daily as i have a friend who has a 2013 Gen 1 with twin turbos making 725 to the tire and he drives it everyday!
The 5.0 is the best motor out for sbe, you can boost them with basically no supporting mods until your drivetrain can’t handle any more. The HEMI is superior for NA and the block design is better suited for high horsepower boosted builds without the use of sleeves
He's talking about a dressed out engine, and not just a crated up LB. With that said the 465 LB for a GEN5 LT1 is on the lighter side of things for a dressed out engine. GEN5 LT1's aren't LS1 light. Since GEN3 LS the SBC has gradually gained some weight. (I think a DOD delete along saves you like 35 lbs. Whatever it is deleting AFM/DFM save noticeable weight along with its other benefits) At the same time GEN3 Coyote has lost weight compared to GEN1/GEN2 Coyotes. Not only does Ford plasma cylinder lining add displacement due to the larger bore it produces (307 ci for GEN3/GEN4 Coyotes vs 302 ci for GEN1/GEN2 Coyotes) but from my understanding the sprayed in plasma lining saves about 15 lbs over a traditional sleeved block. Basically as both series of engines have evolved LS/LT has gain a little in weigh, where Coyote has lost a little in weight.
As a GM LS/LT Guy, I HATE both the Gen3 Coyote and the Latest Hemi platforms......mostly because of their great cylinder head designs....So.... Jealousy is a tough pill to swallow. There is however an engine that you should do a video on. *The Mercury Racing (Mercury Marine) SB4 7.0L* .... It's essentially a factory GM LS7 (C6 ZR1 Vette) Aluminum shortblock topped off with their own proprietary DOHC 4-valve/cylinder Heads. It uses the OEM camshaft location and bearings to mount an internal jackshaft that topped off with a central dual-row cog timing pulley setup (still driven behind the front cover by the crankshaft per normal, as the in-block cam would have been) that then sends a separate belt to each DOHC Cylinder head. Naturally Aspirated, it's 'safely' tuned to about 750 HP (barely breaking a sweat), as it's meant to be a high performance endurance Marine Engine, but is often purchased by hot rod guys for cars as well.... as it's an LS with fancy efficient heads, in the end.
The Coyote is BIGGER than the Hemi, not smaller, and gets the same fuel economy. So, saying that it is more power dense is simply wrong. Bragging about hp per liter is also dumb when you get not one single advantage of being smaller displacement. It has all the disadvantages of small bore spacing and literally zero advantages. The real king of efficiency is the last 3 generations of SBC. Smallest, lightest, most powerful in any configuration, least expensive, most plentyful, and best MPG. They're more efficient in every possible way.
I've owned both, the 392 is better in all around street muscle performance and reliability, which is why I still drive a 392. No hate on the 5.0, it does take to mods better, gains verses dollars spent.
Naturally aspirated - I will take the 392 every day all day. It has way more torque and quicker response. If you want to boost, then the Coyote is far better as most of the hemis need new rings and pistons before you can put in real boost
You touched on "theory" about head flow thru the 4 valve head and why it "should" be better in paper but failed to mention that the 6.4 hemi head still actually flows more than the theoretically better coyote head. Combine better head flow AND bigger displacement AND easier to package... who cares about theory when realty is different? Same for your theory at the end about "if the coyote was as big as the 6.4..." it just isn't, and power per liter don't win races its just power that wins and strictly comparing engine to engine the hemi will make more total power, more than enough extra to carry around an iron block that will hold far more than 1000hp, heck even the factory built more hp than that in those hemi blocks.
In all honesty from the factory the smaller displacement is always better. If you think you go to the dodge stealership and get the best tuned 6.4 money can by, well hell, you might just qualify for a special loan package
Anyways the 6.4 Hemi is the quickest,most powerful naturally aspirated V8 around. Challenger 1320 with the 485 hp 6.4 Hemi runs 11.75 second 1/4 mile time and 3.5 second 0-60...Many people have run quicker times down to 11.30's lots around the 11.50 mark.Engine is stock,but the 8 speed shifts better in the 1320!
Coyote stock running 10's stock motor all over US and Canada. Boosted stock Coyote in the 7's. You should research more! Look up Snot Rocket 1st stock went 6.95, 2nd version with sleeved cylinders, rods and camd running 6.36 at 224mph.
I really like the presentation! I am a Mopar guy,but that Coyote is best in class. GT is 800 lbs lighter and has a great suspension,ez power adds supported by the aftermarket- a real Daisy! I look for 6.4 Hemi's to build for my 2013 R/T Challenger and cannot believe the $ they want for those engines out of wrecked Scat Packs. And info on where to get those 6.4's rea$inable would be much appreciated.
Thsts the most POS motor I have EVER worked on would never buy a stinky Toyota...The Japanese made the engine with heads up each other's asses 😂😂😂...Suckiest water pump replacement there is by far
The mod motor 4V real hemi has beaten the LS and hemi ever since 1996 sorry but no one has come close to the ford mod motor John mihovez has gone over 3000hp with the 4.6 4V mod motor
I appreciate the info! FWIW, the truck Coyote since 2021, uses a different firing order. 351 and 302 HO order vs the OG flathead V8 order for the Mustang. It also uses cast iron exhaust manifolds required for truck durability. The 351 firing order is also for durability as 3 follows 1 instead of 5 following 1 on the same rod journal, theoretically easier on the front main bearing. Also sleeved 5.2 Predator blocks have exceeded 2900 hp using the stock crank.
Truck 5.0s have used the older Modular/351/302 HO firing order since 2015
Love the coyote
I had the scat pack 392 and personally I thought it was an absolute beast. All that torque is fun and it's satisfying having all that displacement.
Yeah, I was really surprised to learn that the Hemis were still using iron blocks. I would have thought, at least the cars: Challenger, Charger and 300C, would have aluminum blocks for fuel economy and road-handling purposes.
I actually did not know this and was surprised while researching this video. Ive never been a Mopar guy.
@@AutoGuild, same. I've been a GM guy all my life, but I recently bought a 2022 Dodge Challenger R/T (5.7L) because it's the only car with a V8 and manual transmission that I fit in comfortably (I'm 6' 5"). So far, I love it!
Love it! I've been daily driving only a manual trans car since I was 22. @@DoctorHemi
@@AutoGuild. I didn't learn to drive stick till I was 30 (I'm 56 now), but I've had a manual car ever since.
There's nothing wrong with iron blocks.
I was kinda surprised when he said that the aftermarket is better for the hemi. The coyote aftermarket is massive!
So is the Hemi
the hemi has been around much longer and in WAY more cars so naturally its going to have a much more expansive aftermarket. the coyote is barely half the age and only in the mustang and f-150
@@aaronkowalewski659 Hemi aftermarket started when the 2V 4.6 was the norm.
@zacharymorris9917 really don't matter when it was started the aftermarket isn't bigger than the coyote. The coyote is endless. At best its equal to if that.
@yimpyoi9808 the coyote has a huge aftermarket. There are 1000 diff ways to mod one. There is no way the hemi aftermarket is larger.
Coyote achievements
Brett Lasala quickest proven street legal car on 275s
6.33 @ 225mph sleeved oe block, ported GT350 heads, oem coyote crank. 2500rwhp @ 47 psi
Factory sealed coyotes have gone 7s
Quickest pass ever with a Coyote billet block but ported oem head
5.67 @ 265mph
The highest brake mean effective pressure of any regular mass produced V8.
Zero Stellantis engines have matched these milestones. Not even close
Viper engine ?
@@kenphilpot1903 nope
@kenphilpot1903 a Viper V10 still hasn't clocked a 5....
John Mihovetz has gone 5.88 at 256mph with an almost entirely oe parts 4.6 4V. 281 in³.
Dodge/Hemi = Hype and nothing more
@@chadkent1241 I mean still the fastest / quickest production car . Viper held the Nurburg record for rear wheel drive …/ stock block / head viper ran 6.68 @ 220 . Idk what class but a gen 3 ran a 3.944 at 184.72 this year . Just saying that displacement always wins
That’s amazing. Especially 47psi of boost!!
The Coyote overhead cam engine can be pushed well beyond its factory redline. In my opinion, the limiting factor, which cannot be easily changed by Ford in how ECUs are designed and calibrated, is the amount of computer processing power (which includes both computation and pulse processing) available in the ECU (the core design). The 7500 RPM redline is considerably low for the Coyote engine configuration, it should be closer to 8500 RPM, and we should ask ourselves to make more power Ford looks to a compressor (Supercharger at lower RPMs) rather than pushing the redline higher to give the same HP increase (which could easily support the fuel flow when using both port and direct injection).
In its basic form without variable cam timing and increasing the spring rates and type, you could easily hit 9000 RPM, with a rev limit at 9200 RPM. So why does Ford not embrace high revving design. I think, simply put, it does not fit into Ford's available ECU family corporate strategy. With ECU design, when you get close to 10,000 RPM, with sequential fuel and spark for a 4 stroke engine, the electronic design and control strategies change considerably from what would be considered a mainstream V8 family controller, designed to operate at a much lower RPM and have a low cost.
Idk man. With a redline that high, I think it's lifespan would be reduced dramatically.
There are two main reasons they don't rev that high. One is a good reason, the other is just sad.
The good reason is piston speed. When you push this up too high, reliability and service life goes down rapidly. The 5.0 has a pretty long stroke for it's size; right in between the Hellcat and 392. Going to Honda S2000 revs with that stroke length would really be pushing it. The GT350 really is getting on towards the limit for OE reliability standards. You can put 2618 forged pistons in and go faster, but you won't run that engine for 200k miles, and you absolutely won't meet OE cold-start emissions.
Speaking of cold-start emissions, that's the bummer. Turning high revs NA really demands a good tuned-length long-tube header. But, it's basically impossible to meet current cold-start emissions requirements without a pre-cat very close to the exhaust port for a quick light-off. High revs also demand a long-duration cam, and unless you're using a VTEC-like system with dueal cam profiles (the Coyote doesn't), that fat nasty cam is going to blow hydrocarbon emissions badly. This is why everyone all got rid of their affordable super high-winding NA monsters at the same time. It's not that Honda decided that revs were silly and they needed to make 6,500 rpm turbos instead. It's quite simply illegal to make something rev like an S2000 today unless you can throw GT3/Z06 money at the car.
Also, higher revs really reduce the amount of time that direct injectors have to do their thing, which means anything revving over 7k or so probably needs dual injection, which adds cost.
@@JETZcorp imagine living in a state with emissions testing yikes
@@LordGwynn I'm talking about the emissions standards at the OE level. Their cars all get tested by the EPA, even if they're getting sold in Montana. They make decisions based on that. We can modify to get around that, but it involves a lot of expense. It's not that hard to turn a Coyote to 9000 with rocking forged pistons and a Haltech. But both of those things would be illegal for Ford to do, and one of them is going to slice 200,000 miles off of the engine's service life.
I drove a Mustang with the 5.0 and then a Charger with the 392. The 392 makes the 5.0 feel weak AF! I bought the Charger and have been loving it for 4 years now.
The 392 Hemi V8 is made in Mexico while the 5.0L Coyote V8 is made in Canada.
Makes sense Mexicans always go big, Canada soft so I can see the smaller engine being made there 😂
@@DanielFlores-773ironic considering the coyote is physically bigger than the hemi
@@yes_man212why you drop that truth on him like that 🤣🤣
And Toyota is still the most American made car ......I always find that hilarious
I always find that funny. The coyote cubic inch is smaller but has so much crap on it that it still takes up more space. When it comes to engines simplicity saves you money.
Give me a gen 2 or 3 coyote
For stock Coyote blocks and horsepower, Gen2 is where it's at. Gen2 blocks handle much more abuse than Gen3/4 because of the spray cylinder liners used in these versions.
Really? Do you have proof of this, or are you just saying this to prop up what it is you own? An OEM GEN3 Coyote is good for about 800 WHP before its strength needs to be brought into the equation. At that point you have to beef up the rotating assembly quite a good bit before the block becomes the weak link.
It's been 17-18 years, but my member berries are making me think that Ford developed the plasma lining back in the early/mid 2,000's, and Nissan had to pay Ford to be able to use it in the R35 GTR.?.? Do R35 blocks have strength issues? This was before Ford introduced it in the 13/14 GT500. Are the 5.8L Modular guys struggling with supporting high HP #'s due to the spray in linears, and are they comverting to 5.4L blocks, or aftermarket resleeving?
How many people are supporting well into 4 figure #'s with factory 18+ blocks? Why would high HP just destroy the factory lining? GEN3/GEN4 Coyotes use big/longer/stronger head bolts than GEN1/GEN2 Coyotes (went to longer 12MM bolts from the older 11MM bolts just like GEN5 LT did compared to LS) so why isn't this ever factored into block strength when comparing factory GEN2 to GEN3 blocks?
Also the 6R80 is less of a risk compared to the 10 speed.
Also the lower compression is more boost friendly
@@JROC734The biggest factor I believe in making a stock GEN2 better for high hp boosted applications is the 11:1 compression vs the 12:1 in the Gen3. 11:1 is right in the sweet spot where as 12:1 is right at the limit where you wanna be on a boosted application running pump fuel. This means you can run more aggressive timing on the GEN2 before detonation becomes an issue.
@@Thechildishmandingo so a Terminators 4.6L is a better engine due to its more boost friendly CR? How about a Hellcat engine? 11:1 is a very high CR for boosting in the traditional sense. For example look at how little boost people used to feed B18C5's and F20C's. The ITR engine had less compression than a GEN1/GEN2 Coyote, where the 2L S2000 engine had the same 11:1 CR. But they were considered too high a compression engines to excel at big boost, but at small boost they would match what many other engines of similar displacement made with noticeably more boost being pushed through them. How many people have pushed stock longblock GEN3 Coyotes into the 4 figure HP range? Probably more than GEN1/GEN2 Coyote have been push there on a stock engine. On top of that GEN3/GEN4 Coyotes can support more boost, and/or compression than GEN2 Coyote without having to pull a ton of timing, whether talking N/A, or boosted due to the fact that it uses dual port injection which is a big advantage to the old port injection setup. Then on top of that it has heads that flow a decent amount better, and it doesn't take as much boost with GEN3 Coyote to = the same power as it does with GEN1/GEN2.
The Coyote heads flow better than Hemi heads. Airflow = power.
The Hemi does come with some badass heads
@@luisontiveros6377 It doesn't matter how badass your heads are, if you're using 2 valves, you're wasting surface area, and flowing less air. You can make the valves as big as you want, but because you're cutting 2 circles out of another circle, that is very geometrically inefficient.
@@bubbleman2002 I'll let the past 3.5 generations of two valve wedge head SBC know they're doing something that's literally impossible according to you. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@luisontiveros6377 should we tell him that Hemi and SBC heads flow better with only two valves???
😬
Not exactly my guy. It's a comparison game no matter what. You start with something/anything then. You do start with airflow. But then you need a piston and compression that'll USE that airflow. The bore shows you how much airflow you can add. You can have 11:1 compression with a 2 litre piston, and it'll never get 3 litres without boost so an intake that'll deliver 3 litres perfectly will deliver 2 litres like shit. An engine IS NOT AN AIRPUMP. It has more in common with you grandma's vacuum cleaner. It's creates a vacuum that it lives off of, it's the reverse of a pump, the only reason exhaust happens is because of the chemical reaction of combustion. In a perfect world you wouldn't have exhaust, just a device sucking in air and fuel and producing nothing but power
You're wrong...the coyote does have interchangeable parts with other modular v8s. Mainly the 4.6, which it's based off of.
No it doesn’t. What parts then?
@@Ornelas11Bconnecting rods
4.6L Marauder 4v engine is the coyote's basis.
@@wyattgardner3552but not the 96-98 cobra ?
Pretty moronic to even mention that
all y’all payin 30k with a scat < bought my Gen 1 coyote for 14k. 5.0>
Same goes both ways, plenty of 6.4s and 6.1 cars out there for under 20k
@@Dukelevi12 You'd have to pay me to own a 6.1
@@Dukelevi126.4 under $20k is either stolen or has a rebuilt title lol
@@bubbleman2002 No thanks.
BGE block was standard I believe in 2018 and up 6.4 passenger cars . My 21 scat came stock with the BGE
Yeah and the BGE has forged crank and forged pistons. Which makes adding a turbo or supercharger less of a danger for the bottom end of the engine. Iron block has more strength for that upgrade as well.
@@LeadStarDude not forged pistons... better valves and block.
I have a 5oh 2014 track pack, but I love the charger scat pack
all 2018+ 6.4 vehicles have BGE blocks, the ram 2500had it first.
Same with my 2022 scat
6.1s went in the SRT8 JEEP GC, SRT8 MAGNUM, SRT8 300 , and SRT8 CHARGER
Never a problem with the 5.7 6.2 or 6.4 torque is needed when starting with pulling
Very nice! What about the Toyota 5.7 vs the hemi 5.7?
Wow that would be interesting. Ill add it to the to-do list
Hemi more powerful Toyota more reliable
@@johntron1237 The Toyota 5.7 probably had more ultimate performance potential than the Hemi. Toyota never took advantage of it
Nice job! While that high-RPM rip of the DOHC engine is intoxicating, the BSFC apparently ain't so great (how much fuel per horsepower). Imagine the fuel economy you could get with that hemi or a Chevy smallblock in that (comparatively) light Mustang. Would be nice if you included BSFC data in your future comparison videos, although you could probably only infer it from EPA mileage numbers.
Brake-specific fuel consumption would be interesting to look at. But using EPA numbers may be kinda sketchy as I think they are self reported so who knows how much wiggle room the automakers are using in the numbers? BTW, nice airplane! ;-)
When comparing brake mean effective pressure, the GM or Dodge camp aren't even close.
The GEN3 Coyote in my 18 F150 XLT 302A, FX4, crewcab/5.5" bed, optional 3.73 reargear truck only averages about 1 less MPG than the LT1 in my 19 1SS 1LE. Both vehicles turn pretty much the exact same RPM on the highway at any given speed in their final overdrive gears. The F150 weights roughly 5,600 lbs with heavy, O/R focused 20" tires, and the Camaro is roughly a 3,730 lb car with fairly wide, performance oriented street tires.
Basically an Alpha Camaro is a way better performance car than any Mustang built on a chassis who's origins date back to the DEW98 architecture, but a GEN3 Coyote is a superior engine to a GEN5 SBC, so the best car would be a Camaro SS 1LE with a GEN3 Coyote, and a TR6060.
I agree, Camaro chassis with Coyote engine would be the sweet spot ! @@JROC734
I get 19.8 at 70 in my Whipple charged 3.73 geared F150. 12 mpg at 70 towing my 6k car hauler. Yea, it’s also an 11 sec truck 😂
Ford should throw that 5.0 in the expedition, bronco and base raptor.
Ford could do that, but I think Ford kinda being cocky . Ford been throwing engines in their cars the size of two Shaq shoe boxes at the opps big v8 engines and still walking the Chevy and Dodges down. Ford is a force to be reckon with that's for sure
Yes, yes, yes
They should have slapped 2 turbos on a 5.0L and gave it "ecoboss" badges.
@wyattgardner3552 if Ford bump that ecoboost engine up to 4.6L, that engine would walk all over Dodge big v8 engine. The Coyote engine is already too much for Dodge to handle. Now throw a 5.8L twin turbo in that Mustang and Dodge will have to put a 12.4 L engine in their Dodge Demon 170 just to keep up with the Mustang
@@BruceDragon-sf1tr and performance based 5 seat Crossover. I had to go Japaneese in order to find a performance based crossover with a 5.0L V8.
Sorry but real street racing is using stock block stock heads stock crank and going low 6's in 1/4 mile at 2500+ hp at over 10hp per qubic inch is the most ever out of a stock block.
Agreed. What is your motor of choice for achieving this?
@@HiAxl 302
“Stock block”
the coyote is an unbeatable platform if you want to dish out straight fades and even as a die hard gm rider i gotta admit that cuz them things good asl😭😭🙏🙏
I’m a Chevy guy but Coyote is the clear winner.
"Chevy guy but"
What are you trying to imply? That the hemi is from chevy? 😆😆
Thank you I’m a ford man but I’m not bias if it runs I will drive it but from a young age I just love the ford motor company we be speaking German Ford motor company but that to rest and if ford want to beat you in a race believe me that will Big new brewery Ferrari found out
@@11D7-n8d Maybe because Chevy also produces pushrod engines in pretty much the same config, think a bit yeah?
@ooozooo7333 thats not what the og implied, he simply said hes a chevy guy. Think a bit ya? 😆🤡
My 2019 scat pack challenger got the BGE blcok all 2018s and up got them
Amazing videos PLEASE DONT STOP MAKING THESE VIDEOS
It’s obvious everyone has their favorite and that’s cool to me.
I have been Jeep Dodge Ram my whole life.
I like the coyote except it’s complicated just like anything Ford builds lately.
A 392 hemi or even 5.7 are super simple massive power makers with basically countless options.
If a hemi goes down (unless it chunks a rod from absolute abuse) it’s usually not a big deal nor much time to fix it.
And the Hemi tick is mostly and easy fix and big load of crap. Once repaired the engines can go indefinitely.
I have 2008 Power wagon(bought it new) it’s been ticking for 100,000+ miles now and has 327,000 on original motor never torn ito past the water pump.
To me… longevity and serviceability is hands down hemi.
If I'm swapping...I'm taking the hemi. Simple proven design, block is stronger, can be bored out larger.
No doubt the coyote is a brilliant design. I want low end pull and more displacement.
Lol no. The Coyote is the proven engine. It is the king of outright power. The Hemi isn't even better than GMs tiniest truck V8.
Can’t argue with the results a coyote produces. That said, I’m not buying a DOHC v8 with a plethora of unique fasteners and complex maintenance procedures. I’m just old. In an afternoon with a pushrod motor you can: swap cam, replace lifters, pull a head if need be (oil pump anyone? 😁) and not worry about retiming and figuring out a tensioner puzzle. I think the pushrod motors will outlive the coyote if the epa doesn’t get to them first.
Why I love the hemi, easy to fix (yes even the lifter problem can be done in your garage...), lots of power and torque for the money, parts are cheap and engines plentiful. That's a good recipe for the DIYer.
Yes MDS lifter failure was the reason I have a Comp. stage 2 now. Really woke this 392 up and no more MDS. The upgrade will check your talent without turning off traction control. Magnaflows and catch can and that's it. Tuner reset the transmission for better shift as well. . Sounds great and runs great. Been 3 years now with no issues yet. Forged internals next. $$$ issues always. Might as well stroke it up while in that deep as well. High Horse Performance did me well.
I had a 5.0L in a 2012 F150. Supercab short bed 4x4. Adequate for towing a horse trailer and 5x8 dump. I loved that truck. Zero issues until 230k miles. Needed timing redone and exhaust manifolds. Truck was rusted out. Bought a 2020 ram with the 5.7L. Longest wheel base in the 1500, crew cab 6.4ft bed. I like the more low end torque. Coworker's has 65k miles and needed new exhaust manifold studs. Mine has 50k and I'm nervous now.
I have a 2012 Ram 1500 Hemi crew cab 5'7" bed 4x4 with 190k miles on it and mine needed exhaust manifold studs at 137k miles. I did them myself and honestly, it really wasn't that bad of a job if you're a little bit handy with a wrench. Make sure to replace them with ARP hardware though, the factory ones will just crack again. Also not trying to scare you here either, but the 5.7 Hemi's have camshaft and lifter oiling issues caused by a somewhat inadequate oil pump. It's perfectly fine under load, but if you idle the truck a ton eventually you'll need the cam and lifters replaced. BUT! Having done all that myself in my home garage, once you get an upgraded melling or hellcat oil pump installed, it'll be rock solid for many years and many miles. When I had my cam and lifters out I kinda hotrodded mine by putting in a MMX cam and hellcat lifters, but hellcat lifters are a common upgrade to 5.7 Hemi's. So eventually when it needs to be done, get it done right the first time and never worry about it again. Don't have a shop install a factory spec 5.7 oil pump or manifold studs, it'll just happen again! That being said though, those are my ONLY gripes with the 5.7 Hemi, mine has been a fantastic truck for me in all the years I've had it, and it's now been problem free for 3 years and 60k miles and hopefully many many more! Again, not trying to scare you, I'm just passing along some helpful info as a long time owner who's had a few long term 5.7 Hemi powered trucks over the years.
The amount of cubes needed by the Hemi to even keep up with the Coyote. Coyote is just a more sophisticated and efficient engine.
The coyote needs 4 cams and need rpm to make power😂
@@luisontiveros6377 its only 1000 more rpm. Not that big of a difference. High RPM is more fun anyways.
@@luisontiveros6377 The tetraethyllead poisoning is strong with this one.
@@kenxiong6830 the coyote at its peak can’t make what a Hemi makes at 2500rpm torque is more fun the response from the throttle
To say the coyote has a simpler cam swap is not true at all. And I'm not sure why you would even bring up hp/cubic ratio. That figure hasn't mattered since all engines were the same cam in block design. You already stated that the coyote is a bigger engine physically so that makes cubic inch irrelevant
Not sure why the Hemi lost points for 4 main bolts compared to the Coyote? What size are the bolts? In my opinion steel threads are stronger than aluminum threads.
Great vid!
Too bad you can't really boost a stock 6.4. They can only take 5 to 6 PSI of boost stock before blowing up.
That’s an issue with the stock pistons. Forged pistons should be installed for anyone looking to greatly boost the 6.4 (non-BGE).
Forged rods and pistons. The factory goofed up not realizing what the hotrodders would want. I hope to do it someday and stroke it as well. After all , it's only $$$.
I owned a 2014 Mustang GT and I currently own a 2018 392 TA. So I have pretty good perspective on the differences here. The two cars are about equal in the 1/4 mile. That says a lot about the larger Hemi engine torque. The idea that it can do the same 1/4 mile while carrying so much more car weight is all about the extra torque. It's tempting to point to the Horse power difference but moving weight off the line is a story of torque not horsepower. What I like about one car vs the other comes back to new vs older car experience and oddly enough it's not the 4 valve per cylinder Coyote that comes off as the "newer" tech experience in the driver's seat. The absolutely coolest thing about that Mustang that I do miss is found in how it more closely resembled the diving experience in older cars. You gotta spin it up to find the power and as you hit the middle of the RPM range it really starts to HUSSLE and GO all the way out to it's red line. Anyone who is older like I am will quickly remember that hot car from their past with the after market cam that sacrificed a lot of low end power to make a bunch more at the top. Between it's live axle, a six speed manual and the Coyote's power band 2014 was the last car produced by Detroit that for better or worse resembled that true old hot rod experience behind the wheel. The Challenger with it's big fat and wide torque curve that starts down low in the RPM range and then carries feels far more modern. It runs hard but it's more linier and typical of most modern V8s.
It is clearly evident that the new "HEMI" is not a HEMI. The chambers have quench pads on either side. Why? Fully Hemispherical chambers are "dirty". Combustion is never complete. The quench pads induce swirl, preventing this problem. "Pent roof" chambers are superior.
I have a 5.0 coyote in my truck and it is awesome. But I have always been a Dodge, Chrysler man. The Demon 170 that's a beast.
Good vid, first of yours I've seen. I roll a Hemi and think it's a better engine, but I can forgive your Coyote bias.
Looks like it's time for an LS vs Hemi version though.
I was thinking the Hemi went into production in 1964, but that was the Race Hemi. 1966 was the first year they put it in production cars I suppose. I wish I had that 1964 Fury my dad had or the 1965 Coronet. I also liked his 1967 Formula S Plmouth Barracuda 383/ 4 speed. Then there was that Limelight 1971 Dodge Demon it had a built solid mount 1971 440 with a built 727 torqueflite & 8-3/4 rear that car would haul ass.
Smaller engine= higher rmp, which is great for racing... now if you get a full bullet 6.4 hemi with bullet internals and add a small about of boost hell maybe add some nitrous with the turbo
I Dont know where I saw it, Maybe MotorTrend, maybe Richard Holdener, But the hemi pistons arent as weak as people say, Hemi engines have an aggressive ring gap that will break a piston at 650 hp, putting more gap can bring the engine to 800+ hp
Well done!
6.4L Hemi v8 was offered in 2014 Ram 2500 Trucks.
The 485hp on the 6.4 hemi is likely more in the 505hp range considering they routinely put 440+ to the tire through a very heavy Automatic drivetrain and wheel/tire combo. Solid engine. Just wish they didn't have the DoD/VVT BS which causes the lifter failures. Gotta love technology...
They sure dont run like a 505hp engine at least stock, must be the weight
@@e46m54nissansr20937 all of the weight, maybe more. Phat pigs they are!
I'd be surprised if it even made 485
14:35 Either the Torque graph is off or the HP graph is off. If the Hemi makes more torque at every RPM than the coyote the HP graph can't cross over the HEMI HP graph. It would climb higher after the HEMI hits redline.
Hello McFly! We were modifying Hemis back in the Fifties and Sixties.
Interesting thing is that we have a 5.0L Coyote V8 in our 2011 Ford F150 making 360 HP and 380 Ibs of torque with 159,000 miles on it and still going strong and a 392 Hemi V8 in our 2023 Dodge Charger Scat Pack Widebody making 485 HP and 475 Ibs of torque.
I would love to see a hemi do what a coyote do....sorry you just don't see it.
In what way ? They both have pros and cons .
@kenphilpot1903 5.7 and 6.4 don't hold power under boost like a coyotes do with stock bottom end. They are iron block...and crate engine vs crate engine they cost the same or the hemi cost more with cheaper material.
@@LordJerinza I agree the head flows more and revs help a lot and just looking at the motor the 5.0 is better in a lot of things . I would like a voodoo one day but for me displacement and tq just feel better and what I prefer . Also have yet to lose to a bolt on 5.0 so 🤷🏻♂️
@kenphilpot1903 the voodoo...is awesome. But honestly they are apples to oranges... OHV is not the same as a DOHC... we really shouldn't compare them. Oh really? I'm getting my fbo mustang together now... it would be cool to have a beer run!
@@LordJerinza they are way different . I’m not a dohc hatter . I know it’s better . But on the street I rather have tq . Obviously not comparing 700 plus cars to “ street “ cars but for semi normal traffic I’m taking the hemi
When it comes to feel, if you love old Fords, 385s in particular, the Hemi is the spiritual successor. Even the firing order is the same.
there is a mistake Hemi at the 5m 15s to the 9m 44s video mark. the 5.7l is a 345ci, the 6.1l is a 370ci, and the 6.4L is a 392ci
You have a lot of good info in this video good job man so dont take my critique the wrong way I'm just trying to help. It looks like you left out the 6.2L. that and i believe the hemi is larger than 2ft. wide especially the 6.4 and the 6.1L they sport taller valve covers than the 5.7L. Also you contradict yourself in the video when you made the statement all Gen3 hemi's are cast iron blocked (@3:54) and they are, the contadiction comes in when you show the hemi later in the video at (@9:45) where you list the 5.7L as ALUM but the 6.1L and the 6.4L as IRON. i like your video but personally I'm biased I have to lean more towards the hemi than the flerd i mean couchyote. The main reason being that you can run significantly more boost through it than you can the yote mainly from the cast iron block is stronger than a sleeved aluminum block unless you're running an aftermarket block with the required webbing needed to support lots of boost. I know i know your whole video is looking at them both N/A but we all know a little boost goes a long way and when you're boosting and seconds count, cubes most definitely matter. so you put a pair of turbskies on a hemi it'll walk flerd owner's "my pretty pony" everyday, all day. It's a shame "stoleantis" stopped making them, the new TT straight 6 sounds like a ricer and is the laughing stock. Just my 2 cents worth.
Awesome job.
One other thing, despite the displacements, the external dimensions of the Coyote are bigger in many areas
This is everything but unbiased. The lack of understanding on everything having to do with engineering is apparent. FEX: What if the coyote was 6.4 liters? It will be a HEMI. Out of all fallacies in this video this one was mind boggling.
I’d like to see the battle of BMW inline sixes M52, N54, N55, B58, S54, S55 take your pick
The damn coyote is a damn animal love it
LS for availability, Coyote for big power, Hemi for initial simplicity And heavy emphasis on initial.
Time stamp: 2:50 you mean Port injection along with the DI that was already there...
Gen 4 Coyote first showed up in the 2021 F150 and is rated at 400hp.
I think the Gen 4 coyote # are just a tad exaggerated 😂😂😂
460-480 is the real numbers.6 speed & 10 speed
Just saying at 9:35 none of the hemi displacements are right lol, it’s 345/370/392. Good video nonetheless
ik this doesn't matter but why at 4:24 does the hemi have 2 alternators cars have the left alternator trucks have it up top and wher the new belt start generators BGS are located
The hemi in some applications like in ambulances and some pickups has dual alternators.
This chart should show torque figures also
I think the coyote is such a cool engine. The heads are massive.
2nd and 3rd gen coyotes are definitely capable of making 1000whp with a stock longblock. The liners aren't that much of a problem at that HP level.
The aluminator is basically just a regular block with a good set of rods and pistons and is what you get when you want to live at 1200whp or less.
As for the cast iron block, no one uses that crap. It's one of Ford's biggest missteps. Idk what made them think anyone would want a block that is 100lbs heavier, but they've been shown that it is about as desirable as a FWD mustang.
Why does everyone care about HP per unit of displacement? That's volumetric efficiency which is just a bigger cam and a bigger hole. The 6.4L has higher flowing heads than a Coyote, and at 330cfm will support 660hp. We don't race HP/L and if you cam up that 6.4L and add long tubes it will make stank nasty nasty nasty power while being smaller than a Coyote that revs higher while making less power. Weight? If you put the engine in the right place in the chassis it don't matter on street cars. I'll raise you one more: aluminum conjoined bore 9.8" deck Mark IV Chevy with a roller cam, massive Pro Stock derived heads, and port injection making 900+hp on pump gas. Still smaller than goofy Coyote and weighs the same. A little longer, but it supports literally DOUBLE the displacement and fits in a smaller hole. Costs less than a Coyote too! I'm not seeing the advantage of the Coyote at all. WE DON'T RACE VE PERCENTAGES!
All that and the coyote has still been faster in the 1/4 then any stellantis engine so yea
@@randythomas9052 Poopoo Peepee, Coyotes can eat my farts!
Yeah coyotes especially gen 2 gen 3 can can handle more than 900 bone stock. No cam, no nothing. Maybe stud the heads tor safety. Of course i would not recommend living at that power daily.
Exactly just add fuel system and boost on any Coyote and they can make some serious Horsepower all on a sealed unopened engine..cant do that with the hemis unless you upgrade the pistons and other things...even a gen 1 Coyote can handle 700+ Horsepower as a daily as i have a friend who has a 2013 Gen 1 with twin turbos making 725 to the tire and he drives it everyday!
HP per liter is interesting. You may simply discount an Ecoboost V6 but the 2.7 is near 140+ HP per liter.
The 5.0 is the best motor out for sbe, you can boost them with basically no supporting mods until your drivetrain can’t handle any more. The HEMI is superior for NA and the block design is better suited for high horsepower boosted builds without the use of sleeves
The 6.2 Hemi Motor has a better SBE than the coyote
ua-cam.com/video/8yfuGbUBWRg/v-deo.html
5.9 magnum and 350 chevy pls
They are both fine motors.. The issue is the packaging they come in. Weight matters.
Coyotes are like 440 lbs btw so its even more than you stated (the weight difference)
Where have you seen that weight? Can you send me a link? I’ll pin an updated comment. Thanks.
He's talking about a dressed out engine, and not just a crated up LB. With that said the 465 LB for a GEN5 LT1 is on the lighter side of things for a dressed out engine. GEN5 LT1's aren't LS1 light. Since GEN3 LS the SBC has gradually gained some weight. (I think a DOD delete along saves you like 35 lbs. Whatever it is deleting AFM/DFM save noticeable weight along with its other benefits)
At the same time GEN3 Coyote has lost weight compared to GEN1/GEN2 Coyotes. Not only does Ford plasma cylinder lining add displacement due to the larger bore it produces (307 ci for GEN3/GEN4 Coyotes vs 302 ci for GEN1/GEN2 Coyotes) but from my understanding the sprayed in plasma lining saves about 15 lbs over a traditional sleeved block.
Basically as both series of engines have evolved LS/LT has gain a little in weigh, where Coyote has lost a little in weight.
As a GM LS/LT Guy, I HATE both the Gen3 Coyote and the Latest Hemi platforms......mostly because of their great cylinder head designs....So.... Jealousy is a tough pill to swallow. There is however an engine that you should do a video on. *The Mercury Racing (Mercury Marine) SB4 7.0L* .... It's essentially a factory GM LS7 (C6 ZR1 Vette) Aluminum shortblock topped off with their own proprietary DOHC 4-valve/cylinder Heads. It uses the OEM camshaft location and bearings to mount an internal jackshaft that topped off with a central dual-row cog timing pulley setup (still driven behind the front cover by the crankshaft per normal, as the in-block cam would have been) that then sends a separate belt to each DOHC Cylinder head. Naturally Aspirated, it's 'safely' tuned to about 750 HP (barely breaking a sweat), as it's meant to be a high performance endurance Marine Engine, but is often purchased by hot rod guys for cars as well.... as it's an LS with fancy efficient heads, in the end.
More valves equates to one burning or breaking!!
What are the head flow numbers for each engine on the flow bench?
The Coyote is BIGGER than the Hemi, not smaller, and gets the same fuel economy. So, saying that it is more power dense is simply wrong. Bragging about hp per liter is also dumb when you get not one single advantage of being smaller displacement. It has all the disadvantages of small bore spacing and literally zero advantages.
The real king of efficiency is the last 3 generations of SBC. Smallest, lightest, most powerful in any configuration, least expensive, most plentyful, and best MPG. They're more efficient in every possible way.
High tech and complexity sounds fun but usually prove temperamental. Id take simple and DIYability everyday over complex.
I've owned both, the 392 is better in all around street muscle performance and reliability, which is why I still drive a 392. No hate on the 5.0, it does take to mods better, gains verses dollars spent.
Totally ignores the big oiling issue with Hemi's. At idle there is no oiling for the cam/lifters since it uses crank splash.
Where is ford cobra vs hellephant crate ?
Naturally aspirated - I will take the 392 every day all day. It has way more torque and quicker response. If you want to boost, then the Coyote is far better as most of the hemis need new rings and pistons before you can put in real boost
You touched on "theory" about head flow thru the 4 valve head and why it "should" be better in paper but failed to mention that the 6.4 hemi head still actually flows more than the theoretically better coyote head. Combine better head flow AND bigger displacement AND easier to package... who cares about theory when realty is different? Same for your theory at the end about "if the coyote was as big as the 6.4..." it just isn't, and power per liter don't win races its just power that wins and strictly comparing engine to engine the hemi will make more total power, more than enough extra to carry around an iron block that will hold far more than 1000hp, heck even the factory built more hp than that in those hemi blocks.
In all honesty from the factory the smaller displacement is always better. If you think you go to the dodge stealership and get the best tuned 6.4 money can by, well hell, you might just qualify for a special loan package
Anyways the 6.4 Hemi is the quickest,most powerful naturally aspirated V8 around.
Challenger 1320 with the 485 hp 6.4 Hemi runs 11.75 second 1/4 mile time and 3.5 second 0-60...Many people have run quicker times down to 11.30's lots around the 11.50 mark.Engine is stock,but the 8 speed shifts better in the 1320!
Coyote stock running 10's stock motor all over US and Canada. Boosted stock Coyote in the 7's. You should research more! Look up Snot Rocket 1st stock went 6.95, 2nd version with sleeved cylinders, rods and camd running 6.36 at 224mph.
lol what. its not even the quickest in america let alone japan or europe
@@SilverRaven1959you’re bringing up modified cars congratulations man you dont get this guys point
@@joelang4709coyotes are so easy to modify no one is keeping them stock my guy
@@Lucas-gu7sj thats cool?
I'm averaging 18 mpg in city with my new 2024 mustang GT with a heavy foot.
Insane how the coyote makes the same and better horsepower than the hemi out of being such a “small” motor 5.0L vs 6.4L
Direct injection equates to excessive cabon deposits
not with port injection as well
@LordGwynn My statement says direct injection... Big difference between the technologies
SC 6.2 hemi >>> predator, voodoo, coyote
Talking about stock numbers from the factory yeah you right but boost a coyote and aint no boosted 6.2 competing any of the coyote platform engines
This video is so very thorough.. thanks👍
No replacement for displacement !
I really like the presentation!
I am a Mopar guy,but that Coyote is best in class. GT is 800 lbs lighter and has a great suspension,ez power adds supported by the aftermarket- a real Daisy! I look for 6.4 Hemi's to build for my 2013 R/T Challenger and cannot believe the $ they want for those engines out of wrecked Scat Packs. And info on where to get those 6.4's rea$inable would be much appreciated.
hemi= holds value because they are now classic motors
My 6.4 can tow 15,000 pounds in my 2500. What can the Ford motor tow?
5.0 can tow 12,900 and does that with 1.4 liters less.
You must have a 2wd base
5.0 coyote 👍💪
Well now that you can’t get hemi no more I’ll be going for 5.0 in f150 hopefully soon
Coyote all day long over the Hemi and Ls. The Godzilla 7.3 is a badass! I’ll stick with my Cleveland and Windsor platforms.
The fact that you go 1.4L larger on engine to compare to the 5.0 Coyote tells everyone...It's the Coyote
2jz smokes em both with 3.0Ls. Fastest stock block 1/4 mile is a 2jz.
Thsts the most POS motor I have EVER worked on would never buy a stinky Toyota...The Japanese made the engine with heads up each other's asses 😂😂😂...Suckiest water pump replacement there is by far
@@tretamplin7353 While I wouldn't put the 2JZ ahead of the Coyote, it is in fact a very stout motor. It's the go to block for imports.
There is a 7 second stock engine coyote sooo
The mod motor 4V real hemi has beaten the LS and hemi ever since 1996 sorry but no one has come close to the ford mod motor John mihovez has gone over 3000hp with the 4.6 4V mod motor
Pls make a video about Mercedes Benz M113 V8