Literally 2mins in and you talking about the importance of environmental story telling and how its absent from the kore community greatly or, more needed, YES. THANKYOU.
On the note that Ranni is an Empyrean but not born of one god - the Cuckoo is a bird which lays its egg in another bird's nest. That host bird then raises the cuckoo as its own, and the cuckoo sees it as its mother. This alone could be hinting that Ranni is a bastard - born of Marika/Radagon, then left to be raised by the Carians, who were the only group Marika could not oppress or win victory against in war. There's more evidence, but it's too much to go into without visual aids, but the theming is absolutely there.
That's a fantastic idea. It would also make sense with Ranni's scheming and deceptive nature for her to be an expression of Marika's deception of the Carians
But Ranni's fate is linked to the stars, which is a Carian thing. She is also not cursed like all Marika and radagon's offspring. Maybe the cuckoo's egg is the amber egg, and Renalla's own children got kicked out of the nest as Radagon became the elden lord?
Yeah my personal lore belief is that Rennala was always infertile which is why Ranni and Radagon were both so important to her and why the amber egg was brought to her in the first place. This also explains why she’s unable to complete her silver tear children. Her womb doesn’t function and Radagon/Marika served both purposes.
I´m gonna be honest, at first i wasnt really convinced with the whole psychological thing going on, but the more i think of it the more it makes sense. Its really wild. Even the body of Godwyn (concept of Death) is hidden deep below Leyndell (Marika´s mind), and spreading as a disease. And following this thread, the whole thing of "God" and "Outer gods" makes a lot more sense, thinking on Marika as the God of HER world, and the Outer Gods maybe as other persons of the outside world influencing her psyche. I really like the idea of Elden Ring´s plot being "What happens when a God, capable of changing reality itself, is traumatized?". Really interesting aproach!
I have no clue what sparked me to search up this grand video. Thank you for expressing these insightful collations between life and the lands between. 🙏
I saw this in my feed, saved it to my 'lore to sleep to' playlist, hit play on said list, and immediately got mild anxiety from the opening. xD I was not prepared for a solo heartbeat that just stops!
I really appreciate your unique perspective based on themes of human psychology. It broadened my interpretation and understanding of the story while also encouraging me to further learn about some of the works you brought up as context. It blew my mind so to speak, and I am really grateful I was able to experience all of that because I randomly stumbled upon your channel, so thank you! I also have some criticism that resurfaces with most of your recent videos - while I believe you are getting the bigger picture mostly correct, I also think there are some issues with how you want to put your narrative into practice by selectively interpreting or dismissing various in game references and then drawing conclusions based on that. One thing I have realized is when we try narrowing this complex story through a single scope of interpretation it always starts to crumble at some point and it's only a matter of time before you need to start reaching and filling the blanks with head canon. Anyway, I am looking forward to the next chapters and hoping the choir music background isn't gone for good!
Thank you for making this video. I really do think you have shone a light on this story that makes so much sense and adds to the richness of the narrative around the game. It does feel like these was Miyazaki’s intention. Another detail is the shattering wars, which I believe is an allegory for the inner parts of Marika’s psyche (the demigods) competing with each other, but of course ultimately none were successful.
From a purely "realistic" perspective it also makes sense. (Although its more or less the "restrictions of game design" perspective): The world of Elden Ring, while big in terms of a game, is quite small when considered as a "real" world - where are all the people in the trailers supposed to come from if there are no villages or other cities around? You can walk across the entire Lands between in a few hours after all, that is tiny. So, a sort of made up dreamworld makes sense in that regard. Im currently not quite entirely on that boat, but the insights into the psychological aspects were fascinating!
Thank you for your content! I love this game and love listening to the lore, but always felt unsatisfied with many other content creators since they failed to grasp the big picture. Watching your videos really helps me make sense of the incredible game.
You have a very unique perspective. It’s really cool how you look at the bigger picture. It’s really easy to miss the forest through the trees in fromsoft games. That being said getting into granular detail is interesting too and still has its place
The first four minutes of this video are absolutely fire! The ER lore community has widely forgotten the environment, naming conventions, and other aspects of how From tells a story as if descriptions are the only things that matter. Great stuff. Excited to watch the rest!
Play by play here: almost half way through and CT, you absolutely cooked. Maybe it's because I'm going through my own personal burnout and "re-integration" process but wow does this click for me so far. We are all so busy trying to understand who this character is or what "charm" means, that we are missing what this world is trying to communicate. End: yeah that was incredible. Does it answer every question or make sense of every lore description? No. But this is the direction we need to head, thinking about themes and motifs. Like this adds so many layers to the Night of Black Knives, for example. The cold and distant rebellious child offs herself and the Perfect Golden Child in an effort to escape the pain of her fate. One aspect of Marika's fragmented self sabotages another and ends up leading to a complete breakdown and shattering of the self. Wow.
100%! My biggest gripe with the ER community is many of the big channels often look at a question with two possibilities, and pick the one that tells the worse story but is slightly more backed up by item descriptions. Miyazaki and Co. aren’t just feeding us lore, they’re telling us stories with themes and messages! The lore telling a thematically resonant and consistent story is just as important as tying together item descriptions. Case in point: people saying the Realm of Shadow was veiled much later after Marika’s apotheosis because “how else would Messmer’s army/Crucible Knight Denovia have gotten there?”. This ignores the massive thematic (and practical) problem of Marika just leaving evidence of her sordid past, and all the skeletons and trauma in her closet in clear view in the Lands Between for all to see. The answer to how those characters got there is “it’s magic, I any gotta explain shit” lol.
@@danieldirocco8282 as if the same goddess who ripped an entire landmass apart and put a chunk of it in its own shadow realm can't then also send an army there 😂.
Been with you since the first video buddy and never doubted. This video is a great effort and a satisfying drawing-together of all your research. Well done and thank you. 🙏🏻
Incredible video brother, very well constructed and immediately puts pieces together I haven't heard anyone else mention. I'm a little ashamed to admit I was one of the comments vying for Elden Beast existing prior to the Elden Ring, but I concede: there are few UA-camrs shaping the narrative of Elden Ring as well as yourself. Thank you for sharing your insights so well my friend, looking forward to the next one.
Absolutely fascinating ideas and fantastic video. One thing that I have not seen anyone else discuss is the idea that Malenia and the scarlet rot may represent Marika's puberty and first menses. I have three daughters and I can tell you, they all can be as fierce as Malenia!
It's heavily implied that Vyke was seduced by Shabriri with the same "deal" he tries to give us: take the flame, spare your maiden. So Vyke's frenzy would necessarily predate his maiden's death. Either he killed her himself in his madness, or perhaps she took her own life as a result of his madness, but her being murdered leading to his madness is by far the least likely sequence of events there imo.
im still trying to figure out what exactly happens in the DLC trailer, FatBrett just posted a video suggesting that Marika made the gates of divinity, not the Hornsent. ive been thinking about that, if she did create them, what was their purpose i considered maybe she created the gate as her own "two fingers", made from the corpses of the hornsent, as a way to communicate with the greater will
It's definitely possible. I don't think anyone "created" them as I see them more as a metaphor. Like I don't think Marika stacked bodies up to make them, but rather they symbolize her traumas and dark past - the reason she became a god in the first place.
"Yeah but how Miyazaki would know about all of this psychology stuff??" - Miyazaki has a major in social sciences and reportedly loves reading all sorts of things, including books on psychology and sociology. I think this is gg, dude. Well done!
I'm watching the video, and it is *much* lower in volume than the baseline volume for UA-cam. When the ads hit, I get *blasted* by the volume in them because I've turned up the volume so much to hear your video.
Another banger! I’m still scratching my head regarding Godwyn and the night of the black knives in the context of displaying Marikas trauma healing journey. Will you dive into this or maybe I missed it in another video? Thanks for putting this together, one of my favorite series in the ER lore universe. 🔥
This is 500% spot on. Damn. Was fighting the Putrescent Knight last night after watching this and realized that you literally drop into a uterus-shaped chasm. All to say, this made me look at the game in a whole new way. Thanks for your work!
Assuming you are already aware but i didn't see it mentioned in the vid. Promised Consort's Arena is literally encircled by a bunch of statues that are straight up the Salvator Mundi.
I noticed those the moment I entered Enir Ilim. I have a feeling that Tarnished Archaeologist is going to get into that at some point in the next few months.
Same, the psychology makes sense but it doesn't answer why Miquella needs to die, if Miquella ascending to godhood is what the Greater Will or Marika wants then why is the Tarnished sent to end him? Wouldn't it make more sense for the Tarnished to become Miquella's consort as another ending?
@@afroizethe way I see it is that Miquella’s ascension isn’t healing, he sacrifices everything, including his love. That is not the process of healing trauma, he isn’t self-actualising, he is vulnerable and perpetuating a cycle of trauma, but as a victim himself or through the naivety of childhood. The tarnished is the one that collects the greatrunes and returns them to Marika, that is the path of healing. That is just my current line of thinking, though.
😮yoooooooo 🤯 Edit: YOOOOOOOOOO!!! 😲🤯😱🙀🌀🌪️⚡☄️🌋😵😵💫💀 I've been eagerly watching enumerable amount of lore videos on the specifics and detailed aspects of the direct story in the game from dozens of channels that's still continuing to increase, since the first waves of videos started being uploaded when the base game came out and enough time had passed for people to have enjoyed and played through it. And I've always thought it's incredible how much lore has come out and how there's still so much that's unexplained it seemed. And then I get this video recommended and now I've learned all that previous stuff was just the microverse of lore. Cause here we have the exposure of the Macrolore that's been right there the whole time O.O Bravo! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Seriously, just incredible video. Mind genuinely blown. Loved it. 10/10 Will highly recommend lol Fantastic
The Empyreans having 4 aspects, 4 arms and all that, I think is because of 4 temperaments of humans from psychology, but into one being: Sanguine, Phlegmatic, Choleric and Melancholic.
You. I enjoy your content. I (personally) feel as if you’ve teased out the macro-theme. I hope the universe grants you whatever it is that you need, so you can continue making your content, for humans like me to enjoy.
Yall guys are the best lore tubers like you TA and 2 others ill edit later on. he has like 10 k subs like you and basically explained everything. i was astounded
Im not with you on the whole, everything is just in Marika's psyche thing, but, your points on all the mental stuff in being bases for the characters, Miquella is the inner child and such, that im sold on. St Trina has literally shown us that these characters can literally split them selves into multiple versions. St Trina is to Miquella, what Radagon is to Marika. St Trina is Miquella's love that he just split off somehow. Marika must have been splitting off aspects of herself as well, prime one being Radagon, but yeah maybe even more. I was thinking this divesting technique must be a trick that you get from being an empyrean. But he does get rid of it, although i think last? Ive also been thinking about the ghost forms that some people have. Miquella has his ghost form, everything divested, and hangs on radahns shoulder. Ranni has a Ghost form. She killed her own body to become that. It's more blue because she's more magic aligned. Miquella is gold because he's golden order aligned. Prolly is unalloyed Gold. And then there is one more ghost form that we see; Serosh who is hanging over Godfrey's neck just like Miquella over Radahn. I think this proves that Serosh was an empyrean at one point, as im thinking this divesting must be an empyrean trick. Serosh's color is also interesting, kinda golden but not, more neutral. Oh and one thing that annoys me, Empyreans get a shadow wolf. Where the fuck is Miquella's? And where are his two fingers?
Miquella being ancient doesn't track. Miquella isn't the only one that knows about the golden order, Rykard could be said to know more than most and we are given a clear line where he gained that knowledge, and it is after he is established as a great leader in his own right, with his own lands and own people. Miquella is clearly shown in game to not be the only one that has this knowledge of Marika's origin, we also have Ranni hinting that she knows. We are also shown in game that Goldmask gains this knowledge eventually. It's not an illogical stretch to imagine Miquella gained this knowledge and instead of shunning the Golden Order, fighting against it or ignoring it completely he chooses to discover how it came about so that he can use that power to create a new order, instead of having to be there to witness the beginning.
Yeah I agree as it relates to the lore on the surface. Miquella and Malenia probably were born later, and Messmer and Melina born sooner. Still, the thematic point can still be there even if the chronology is mixed around some.
@@TSpoon823 I think there's a clear danger that the lore community in general keeps falling into the same trap of playing with the timeline to fit the lore, despite the clear evidence to the contrary. A good example here is the saga of the Gloam Eyed queen, we're given a wealth of real in game evidence that shows that Marika lived an entire lifetime in between her first 'ascension' from Shaman to Empyrean, and her godly ascension at the divine gate. That first ascension bestows the understanding and power of runes upon her, we know this for many reasons including the fact that she used the rune of death on the Gloam Eyed queen before giving it to Malaketh, all before her godly ascension. We also know that the hornsent refer to her by many derogatory names that centre on betrayal, which clearly shows there had to be time for the hornsent to build that attitude. It's illogical to then assume that Miquella, Mesmer or anyone of the other demigods, existed at this time. They are a clear result of Marika attempting to reconcile aspects of herself, as we see mirrored in Miquellas quest. The evidence doesn't back up all these nonsense timeline assumptions, yet the lore community continues with questions that have been answered in game because it fits their personal narrative.
@@shadquirk607 agreed for sure. Though I don't know if it's explicitly stated that Marika used the Rune of Death on the GEQ but I wouldn't be surprised. Either way, there are things that we don't know and things we can know, like you're saying. And as an avid fan of GEQ theorizing, I appreciate the example lol. Like parts of the timeline. We know the Golden Order preceded the Erdtree. The First Church of Marika all but confirms this. And the Golden Order came at the defeat of the GEQ. Therefore, the GEQ and Godskin hunt was BEFORE the Erdtree. It can't be any other way. This DLC is an expansion with lore that they had written before the base game was released. Sometimes this makes us go back to the drawing board, but other times we can see it all fit together if we take a step back and remember what they already gave us for sure.
If something is between two rivers it's symbolism. For something being stuck or is governed by 2 currents. 2 different forces or flows. They flow in same direction but can have two aspects. TL:DR Multiple aspects of unity.
I always thought the map was a curled finger similar to the ones we use as tarnished, but maybe I'll have to look through your videos to find that one.
Hey CenterdTarnished, I'd like to scratch your brain a bit since you're into exactly both my kind of things at present - exploring childhood trauma and Elden Ring. I've been cogitating on your take on the world and pushing the concept as far as can go in my head. Hear me out: The Tarnished is the outer world of Marika, the external point of view, the reaction the world has to offer to her inner experiences. There's a whole spectrum of attitudes one should expect from other people if you expose them to your inner truth, but the way the Tarnished experiences the LB looks pretty much how people behave or react when confronted with someone else's baggage. It goes from fear, terror, disgust, violent rejection, and guilt, to disdain, indifference, morbid curiosity, and obsession, to careful exploration, mutual discovery, and candid curiosity. Another idea you've made me think of is that the endings also reflect the stance most people take on the kind of journey one takes when dealing with their buried pain. They're the consequence of the Tarnished's decision, not Marika's!
@@allthe1 hey! I’m glad you are enjoying the content! I like the idea of the tarnished being representative of the outside world. I think there is a little more to it from a lore perspective but from a purely psych standpoint, it makes sense. I think one of the things most people do without realizing is projection- which I believe is a major reason for why people choose the endings they do. I think you are right about the endings being consequences of our actions and not Marika’s but on an unconscious/ projection kind of way. For example, if someone was bullied and hasn’t dealt with that pain- my guess is they will be drawn to Dungeater’s ending where everyone can feel their pain. They are probably unaware of why they even chose that ending but have a deep connection to it.
@@CenteredTarnished When I first learned about the endings I hadn't finished my first playthrough, so I was anxious to see all of them. In the end the best quest by far was Ranni, and her ending seemed to me the most courageous, responsible, and lucid. But I have to say the frienzied flame was a tempting one 🫠 I agree with projection being ubiquitous. A lot of us pick favorites among the demigods, probably according to our own trauma experience and buried emotional needs, and the fantasy world we built in our lives. What was your favorite ending?
Something I hadnt thought about until the brain and eye speculation is that melina and Ranni have opposite eyes open perhaps reflecting one is dealing with the external more logical world and the other the more emotional intangible inner world related directly to Marika. I think we can guess which is which. Then theres the fact that messmer was given an eye but has only a pit with a serpent in it now maybe reflecting his blindness. We also dont see Miquellas eyes open when we see him in the game itself (not sculptures of course) or at the very least they are very closed. Interesting food for thought.
On your comment on Miquella’s location on the Lands-Between-Body at 50:15, just wanted to leave some thoughts: Firstly, the Haligtree and Miquella (the child of a God) being situated above the head as a new growth reminded me, oddly, of Athena. The Goddess of Wisdom, iirc, wasn’t born from intercourse, but from a thought of Zeus, who then birthed her from his own head. Could there be something there? Secondly, Miquella’s actual location. The Haligtree being by the head as a new growth could signify a new beginning, as you say, but Miquella, of course, isn’t actually there. Rather than at the Consecrated Snowfield, the head of the Lands-Between-Body, Miquella’s located below Caelid, in a lower part of the body. Now, one thing I’ve had issue considering is Miquella’s villainous role, with the DLC making him the final boss despite the symbolism surrounding him being positive, redeeming; the solution, instead of a problem to be solved via sword point. Could this location hint at a twist here? Maybe the affair and seduction spoken of by Miquella relates to this? The absent home and actual relation showing the difference between a high philosophy and any lust and avarice it may conceal? Also, other thing, what does Metyr and her story symbolise in the psychological framework? It could explain your misgivings with the seemingly nonsensical Greater Will, since it turns out the all powerful being was never in play, and it was in fact just Metyr making do how best she could.
I love the connection to Athena being a thought of Zeus and that’s how she was birthed. brilliant. Do you think it was Miquella’s choice to be kidnapped by Mohg?
@@CenteredTarnished On Miq and Mohg, it seems like it. Starting with what other videos and theories have observed, we know Mohg was charmed by Miquella, and we know Miquella was actually at the battle of Caelid, given he was there to heal Freyja. Since Mohg resides below Caelid, many theories go that Mohg’s “kidnapping” was an inside job, a bloody escort service, or both. Mohg could’ve brought Miq to Caelid so he could catch up with his sister and his consort and/or so he could possibly use the aftermath of the Caelid fight as fuel for his Shadow-Realm visit. Or so the theories go. Moving on, though, the whole microcosm/same-but-different/cyclical nature of Elden Ring’s story supports this through what it could infer on Marika’s story. For Marika to seduce/betray the Hornsent, she would have to have been loved by them, and possibly even love them in turn. For Mohg to rhyme with the perpetrators of Marika’s trauma, his love would have to rhyme with theirs. Thus, like Marika once seduced the Hornsent, Miquella charmed Mohg, controlling his every action then discarding him in the end. Or perhaps not as many proposed timelines have Marika and the Hornsent coexisting for a while up until Messmer’s crusade, likely continuing their deplorable practices despite the reigning God Queen’s distaste for them. Perhaps in this way, Mohg acted mostly of his own accord during the Shattering, only dedicating his work to Miquella but not following him; it would seem OOC for Miq to condone blood worship, butchery and sacrifice on the scale of the Mohgwyn Dynasty’s. And this could all culminate in the modern day, with the Hornsent NPC and Ansbach. The Hornsent, discarded and condemned by the God Queen’s order, naturally hate Marika. Ansbach, when he realised how his lord was being manipulated came to fear Miquella to the point of attempting assassination; a sentiment he would retake once Miq’s charm broke. The only difference here is the nascency of the divinity’s order and the vengeance. The Hornsent can only defy Marika long after her betrayal, whilst Ansbach can help the Tarnished nip Miquella’s new order right at the bud.
This video has genuinely blown my mind because it makes almost every single mystery within the game make sense, but I would like to give my two cents as I believe the idea that the lands between is simply the inner mind of Marika does not fully explain certain aspects of the story. It's always important to remember that stories come from the minds of other people, and because of that, intent and bias will be prevalent within the stories they tell. Would it not be more likely that the Lands Between is a literal place, not something within Marika's mind, and the reason they told the story of this game the way they did was to experiment with the idea of bringing the psychology of Marika they created into a fictional place they also created? There's so much in the game that seems to have just enough disconnect from Marika that it was beyond her control, and if that's the case what if Marika is a representation of someone dealing with trauma BUT they are the creator and God of the world they live in. I understand that it's a stretch to say Marika just existed and got bored so she decided to make the Lands Between from nothing, but is that not what we assume the Greater Will is? The Greater Will, the Elden Ring, the Erdtree and Scadutree; they all can simply be assumed to be Marika embodied in different ways. For example, Marika is kept in the Erdtree by the Greater Will for shattering the Elden Ring because she could not protect her child self she so desperately wanted safe, so much so in fact she destroyed all evidence that that child existed by removing the Land of Shadow from the Lands Between and removing Farum Azula from time itself. While this example is not something I can say I fully believe, the fact they all tie together so easily gives credence to there being more than a psychological story being told here. Instead of taking the psychological aspect of the story so literally, we should try and strike a balance between the mind and body, the spiritual and the physical. The Lands Between and Land of Shadow are real physical places, with real people within them. However, this is a world controlled by a single will, a will that has gone through extreme trauma likely from its own experimental creation. Her psychological state is being represented in the game, and in turn her psychological state is changing the world around her simply because she has the power to do so. There's just no way to extend Marika's psychological state to the relationship between Diallos and Jarburg, however we can easily tie Marika's physical being with this relationship. The Elden Ring, Erdtree, Greater WIll, etc. are all real physical things, or were at some point. It's why the Tarnished and so many others have the ability to change them, with or without Marika's Grace. However, they all seem to represent different aspects of Marika's psyche. Both of these can be true and the story still makes sense. Something else I'd like to say is how much your frustration with the lore community is appreciated. I really hated how lacking in emotion the lore hunting for this game has been. Sure, it's cool that mushrooms are a massive focal point of the lore, but what does that have to do with the fact that Miquella is trying to ascend to godhood?! You can tie these two events together from a logical standpoint but why the hell would they write a story just to flex mushroom knowledge?! Elden Ring is a very human story, exploring humanity's past, our psychology, our different beliefs, religions, and sciences. It even deals with the idea of struggling against undefeatable forces, and how without the player, every person you meet is fated to die horrible deaths, with no hope. Ranni would have likely never succeeded with the player. Millicent, despite dying in the end, would have never been able to become her own person, truly separate from Malenia and her psyche. Miquella, despite his affliction of never being able to succeed in his plans, is still able to ascend to godhood with your help. And yet there you are, Marika's new Lord ready to put an end to Miquella's dream. These people are constantly going AGAINST Marika's will, and yet they still fight. There is little to no hesitation for most of them as they already know this world is not their own. They do not believe that there should be any reason to give up and succumb to what so many within the Lands Between have. Marika is in a constant war with herself, but also her creations. They represent aspects of herself not just because it's in her mind but because she has brought her trauma into the real world, likely subconsciously. It means that every facet of life and death in the lands between is held back by her, and her constantly contradictive actions. It deals so well with the idea that the biggest thing stopping us is ourselves, while making a God that rules over an entire world go through that exact problem. That alone should bring into perspective how important the emotional and psychological aspects of the game truly are. Marika, being important in every historical setting in the game is no coincidence from a story telling perspective either. If you wanted to explore the human mind and body fully, especially through a story, human history is the best inspiration. Why not make one person represent all of it? Why not put a person into this world you've created that shows ALL of humanity's struggles by existing for all of known history? I honestly think that's far more important than the fact that the Finger Mimic item is the same thing as the Dead Man's Fingers mushroom we have in real life, and I'm more inclined to believe you would feel the same way. For that I'm genuinely thankful as I was getting tired of people getting mad at not understanding the timeline when we still don't understand the characters. I'd much rather know why the characters did what they did than when they did it.
@@gen_bay2948 100% this. I think one thing I need to work on is communicating this thought better- that Marika is a God who has control over everything in the LB and what happens when a God goes through trauma. I agree about the smaller, side stories not being representative of Marika’s inner world. Well kind of. Now that we understand Marika’s past, the story of Jarburg and Diallos is much more powerful and deeper. At any rate, I love this comment and appreciate the feedback and your thoughts!
@@CenteredTarnished Glad we agree for the most part, it's honestly had me thinking so much over the past day, especially in relation to the possibility that torrent's previous master was Marika as well, considering Melina and Ranni both know of his existence and in Melina's case outright helped in getting Torrent to you. And Marika's connection to spirits is perfect considering Torrent is a spirit. Then the fact Miquella is seen riding him in the DLC promo image, it would make sense if Miquella is an aspect of Marika that while he was in the Land of Shadow once before, he used Torrent. The connection between body and mind in this game is likely the missing piece we need to solve the mystery behind what truly happened, in relation to the Gloam Eyed Queen, Godwyn, the Night of the Black Knives. It all ties into not just Marika's past actions but her past emotional state and her connections with people on a psychological level. I can't wait to replay this game all the way through and explore it with this idea in my head, it will likely recontextualize everything for me. Thanks again for the video, very refreshing!
While this theory isn't something i 100% subscribe to, you provided enough evidence and gave enough examples that it's believable and thoroughly enjoyable. I can understand how you came to each conclusion and have just one question; in viewing the world of Elden Ring in this scope, what would the Fingers, Mother of Fingers, and The greater will represent? (If this is answered in a different video or if i just missed their significance in this video, then my bad 😅)
I find all of this incredibly fascinating. And I think its a really unique perspective on this story, with clear parallels to these concepts evident in the game. In your opinion, under these parameters, what role do we play as the Tarnished? Are we merely a witness to this broken psyche or are we an inner force of healing and change, each ending resulting in a kind of varied path to resolving the trauma?
Very impressive and convincing, as we know as well fromsoftware did build their lores on the psychological and religious philosophy especially even in demon souls
Im so grateful to pc players for helping me better understand the lore. For some reason I am obsessed with this world abd findinf the deeper meanings of it grant meaning to my life. Everytime I learn something new there is always a new question that pops up the seems to render my previous conclusions obsolete(?) It seems like in order for me to truly understand the lore of this game, I need to know who GRRM is as an author, various concepts of philosophy, and practices of ancient civilizations. A lot of things I am unable to dive into myself. I am also guilty of applying mortal restrictions to gods. Like of course Marika would give birth to fractures versions of herself in a way that mantles the Greater Wills fracture of itself; She's a GOD, duh! So I'm grateful for creators to be able to help me reconcile with certain conclusions when Im too busy experiencing ny own turmoil to be able to do them myself. I recently watched the mushroom theory from Ziostorm, and I realized how this game truly parallells reality. Right now, we are living on a planet that feeds on and is empowered by death. I call it a death planet (im going through some things right now lol). Every aspect of Earth involves consuming death in order to provide/fuel life. Almost every living being feeds off of death to provide the power of life, which in turn feeds something. When we eat food, we are eating the death of something else, and we gain nutrients, and vitamins giving us strentgth, and power, and continued life. And when we die, our death provides continued life for so many beings big and small. And in a sense, this realization has made me less afraid of death. It is merely a cycle.
Thought of that immediately! You look at the internal pain and fracturing and decide that nothing is worth saving. You become one with the suffering. Chaos takes the "world" and you burn it all down. Think about the Abyssal Woods. A place once flourishing and beautiful is now the lowest, darkest, and most hidden area in the whole game. The church there has no image of Marika at all. And in the depths we find a home and a man trapped by madness and suffering. What does he say before he literally takes his own life and embodies madness? "Enough. I have suffered enough." And then Chaos begins to burn before we stop him.
@@TSpoon823 Now that you mention the Church, those usually have statues of Marika. But overall, in the DLC, all statues of her have their head taken off. As you do when you go Frenzy.
Imo, is the truth of the trauma itself. The event made flesh, hence why its symbol is an opened burning eye. The lands between is like a cosmic coping mechanism, while the flame of frenzy is facing the reality. By facing the reality, the lands between die. However facing the trauma without the right precaution is far more dangerous than using coping mechanisms. The mind shuts down, just as the soul burns with the flame of frenzy.
Re: what I would say if asked what the GW is: I would propose (the possibility) that the Greater Will is whatever the person with the Greatest Will says it is. I've wondered whether the GW is like the concept of the Mandate of Heaven in Chinese History; the Mandate is proven by the victory. In the context of these psychological allusions and connections, I'd hazard without too much consideration that the GW refers to the process of individuation. In this context, the LOS is the Shadow of the Persona which is TLB. The existence of Omen, and later Those Who Live in Death among all of the other things that are seeming out of step with the Golden Order are the result of refusing to integrate the Shadow. Alternatively, combining the Mandate of Heaven idea with this notion of Empyreans containing multitudes, maybe the GW is again: the victory of the personality (or majority among them), or of the concepts they represent or favor (thoughts, ambitions, principles they would follow) that win out, HAVE and ARE the Greater Will. Lastly, the GW could refer to what is Established or come to pass. In other words, the fact that X happened instead of any other possible outcome in a chain of causality is representative in itself, of the Greater Will of time and/or causality. The GW is simply what NOW is, metamorphosized from what WAS. I've just reached the Lands of Shadow for the second time. Looking forward to another lore/archetype pondering journey. I will consider the GW some more.
So amidst all this psychological analysis of this fictional character, what do mushrooms and fingers mean? What's your psychological analysis of these elements. Also, it seems like this is worth saying. I accept the story that is presented to me because this is literally what is presented to me via item descriptions. I understand you don't see it that way but that interpretation is just as valid as your interpretation.
Oh I agree, I just think that the environment can tell us just as much, if not more, about the story compared to only using item descriptions. It seems like if you can't corroborate a theory with an item description, it get's thrown out as a ridiculous head canon. But we on this channel have been able to accurately predict some big things that no one else did because we take the environment as a huge piece of the lore puzzle. My only issue is when people can only use the item description to explain a concept. For example, if you can explain to me what you think the Elden Beast is without echoing an item description, that tells me you have a clear understanding of the story. It's like trying to define a word by using the word to define it.
@@CenteredTarnished without an item description, the Elden Beast looks otherworldly and cosmic. With humanoid hands and feet, an amoeba like mass, eerily aquatic tail and what seems to me, insect like wings. The shape of his weapon reminds me of the structure of DNA 🧬. It looks like a god, the game even tells me it is one upon its defeat. I'm sure it's very close to what you're describing, because your analysis of Marika and "take" on the Lands Between reminds of the seven gods who are one within ASOIAF. As far as the design of the Elden Beast, maybe it's just a weird fever dream a character designer had that Miyazaki has had input in. All that to say that without item descriptions I would have no idea what the Elden Beast is. I honestly didn't see or experience anything told visually to help me understand that confrontation except that the finger slaying blade looks similar to its weapon. And those tree trunks that are always in most games ...
@@davatho Here are my thoughts/ interpretations - Hewg is tasked with killing a god. Rodricka says that God is Marika. - The EB OST comes on when Marika ascends the gates of divinity - The EB has the same exact wound as Marika (in the belly) - Both Marika and the EB use Radagon as a kind of physical vessel. It seems that when Marika needs something done, she sends Radagon to do it. When the EB emerges it uses Radagon's body as a physical weapon. - Marika's scarseal is all about the spiritual elements, while Radagon's is all about the physical. The same way the EB fights you. IMO there are a ton of clues about what the EB is without the item description just based on the environment, the side stories, connected elements, etc.
@@CenteredTarnished you see tons of clues. My first time around those elements were not apparent to me. All the points you just mentioned, someone else could see or think of something completely different. That is what makes all of this speculative content fun and interesting to consume. Unless it's explicitly stated to be one way or another, it's literally up to interpretation based personal knowledge, experience or some particular bias.
I do love the emphasis on world building aspects, but I feel like it underrepresented smaller lore content creators to say "oh we don't look at it." That's the archeologists whole thing, and kitetails has been looking at statues for months
RE: Representations of parts of the physical body in the map/actual game world... Not to regress to Bloodborne too much, buuuuuuuuut - the Erdtree/Scadutree, wouldn't they be representations of the umbilical cord connecting "what came before - the body that gestates" to "what is coming, the new age - whatever is being gestated"? If so, I'd venture the primary traumas that need to be overcome are: 1.) Being born - going from what has to be a state of - I am - only and whole, and thus metaphorically "one great - with the only and greatest will". And 2.) the death of a/both parents - the cognitive dissonce of "how is it even possible for the one that gave life to me to die?" The answer/Eldritch truth that can either froth you into a frenzied madness or provide The insight that is crucially necessary to moving on into the future: Death is destined. And the follow-up thought that I think leads to positive healing: destined less in the sense of magical powers that let someone Divine the future in advance, or otherwise, magically cause certain events to occur - but more so - events that happen are destiny and HAD to happen because they DID. Any given person moves the furthest distance they will ever be from any given event in their lives instantly, by experiencing the very next instant as the clock and mechanisms of time no one has control over... Ticks... Even a thousand years from an event as compared to an attosecond after... no person will ever be able to go into, let alone change the past and what happened.
The Uhl ruins I believe show the timeline of events within this universe. If you look at the monoliths from bottom to top, they seem to start from the prehistoric era with the Dragons. As you will see, similar statue iconography at the bottom of the Monoliths that you see in farum azula. There is another part on it. That depicts what looks like. The jarring process for creating saints. As well as some sort of tree birthing process that must depict the erdtree And then it also shows the stone coffin ships that we see as well in the shadowlands
Mohg kidnapping and defiling Miquella just like the Hornsent kidnapped and defiled Shamans and Marika, but Miquella in his wisdom goes inside the unconscious (shadowlands) to heal his (Marika's) world and become a god in his own right accepting of all, though I dont understand what we are supposed to be, we are just forced to kill Miquella and we cant even have a new ending
also the timing when Mohg kidnaps Miquella, as hes embedding himself in the tree, sort of like that statue of perhaps also Marika in the Shaman Village, thats why Miquella's Tree is so hidden and protected by an undefeated warrior, just like the Shaman Village is hidden and protected by the sentinels too, for it is the beginning of her trauma, the kidnapping
Amazing video with lots of great discoveries! The ways in which you link everything to trauma and psychology is very compelling, and I really like this reading of the game's events. One thing that I'd like to note is how this connects to the game's themes of alchemy. Considering how central of a theme alchemy is, I refuse to believe there isn't some interplay between psychology and alchemy here. Indeed, there have been several attempts to link alchemy to psychology, ranging from spiritual to academic. In this case, I think that the original works of Carl Jung might have had a huge influence on the artistic decisions taken in the game. He makes a direct connection to alchemy, having two books titled _Psychology and Alchemy_ and _Alchemical Studies_, and even another titled _The Philosophical Tree_ (sounds familiar?). The titular deity from his book _Aion_ might very well be the main inspiration for the divine beast warriors, as he's a lion-headed man who has a snake spiralling around his body. There's likely much more to find by researching his works. I haven't read these books myself, but I've thought for a while that the process of attaining godhood must have something to do with the Magnum Opus, or Philosopher's Stone. Note how without fail, each of the ascensions of the various gods and lords are all attained through bloodshed. Marika's is surrounded by blood and gore at the Gate of Divinity, Miquella is holding onto a warlord while he's fighting the tarnished, Midra ascends after he's assailed by the tarnished, and Malenia lets the rot overtake her as a last resort in combat. This final stage aligns really well with the last stage of transmutation for the Magnum Opus. These stages are as follows: Nigredo (blackening), Albedo (whitening), Citrinas (yellowing), and Rubedo (reddening). It's clear that the stage of nigredo would represent loss or grief, and this does happen to all these ascended lords and gods. The final stage, rubedo, is bloodshed and assailment, in most of these cases against the tarnished. I don't exactly know what the other two stages might represent, perhaps obtaining some sort of stability and finding a belief system, basically attaining a coping mechanism, but it might be something different entirely.
@@zeppie_ I have read many of those alchemy books and can tell you they certainly are inspirations for ER. I would love to do a series on it but fear it will be rejected simply based on how “little” response the psychological approach gets. Maybe one day. That being said, I’ll give a very small example. Miquella clearly represents the inner god/ child in psych which correlates to mercurius in alchemy. Both are meant to unite the opposites and return to a state of unity. If there are any opposites within the game, it’s Mohg and Radahn. I don’t think Mohg was Miquella’s plan B. He needed the lowest of lows and highest of highs
I love the macro theming, I think youre right on the money and the "Leyndell/Faram Azula are brains" is genius. That being said, if the entire story is symbolism, then whats the point of having a story? Like obviously theres a lot of symbolism, but stuff actually happens. There are orders of knights and cults and little groups in the Lands Between, its not just some random hellhole made from Marika's trauma. I just cant get behind videos turning all of the real, in depth lore into "its all just symbolism"
To add just a bit. The story being heavily symbolic doesn't erase the lore or characters. It doesn't invalidate you or anyone else thinking they are (in their own right) cool or interesting. Their is obvious artistry in the writing, audio, and visual design. I think it just takes it to an entirely other level when you can take all those components and weave them together in a coherent way. I honestly do not think it's possible to make full sense of the ER lore/timeline without acceding that it is primarily symbolic in nature.
if miquella's actions represents the healing of trauma, what do you think it means that we aren't given a "miquella ending"? Ultimately his plans fail because we kill him and we aren't given any other paths in that regard.
@@joeyripcho6424 well, I think we are given a Miquella ending. It just requires us to sacrifice our own ending. I plan to make a whole video discussing the endings but I believe Miquella healing the shadow tree in the very last seconds of the DLC trailer is the “true” ending.
@@CenteredTarnished Interesting, I'm excited to see that one. Also love your videos, they provide some of the most unique and compelling theories I've seen in the lore community. Keep it up, this channel absolutely deserves 100k+ subscribers
@@CenteredTarnished That's actually genius! The story the game tells is also obviously about generational trauma looking at what Marika does to her children. Any of the endings can be interpreted as perpetuating that trauma through various means. The only way out of that cycle is to stop perpetuating it, or in this context to simply stop progressing the game
Do you think the Erdtree and Scadutree are supposed to be symbolic representations of a brainstem? Why are they called “Remembrances”? and then it goes on to say “remembrance hewn into the Erdtree”
Finally someone saying these things! And put into words well, too! Something I have seen no one but you speak of, is how Marika seems to have been around from the Beginning with a capital B. Pre-history. Marika "The Eternal". Perhaps a sort of totem or object of worship used to control the world to enact the will of some red haired man (or dragon, or giant). You brought up the fact that every rune-mender dies. Idk about you, but Marika has looked pretty hung on a cross to death since I turned Elden Ring on for the first time. I think the point about Miquella being Marika in a real sense is underexplored and interesting. People seem to try to form some sort of linear timeline when all we have are repetitions of themes over eons of time, uncounted numbers of years, with the only clear throughline in it all being Marika herself.
If Melina can channel the ancient echoes of Marika I don't see why her other children, like Miquella, wouldn't have the same ability. It isn't necessary for Miquella to have been born so early in the timeline. I think he just went on a journey of discovery much like his mother had before the Shattering. Like her, he struck me as a true believer in the Golden Order in the beginning, but later on became increasingly disillusioned. Marika built an empire and a pantheon without truly understanding either. After she "delved" into the Golden Order she made the decision to tear the whole thing down. I think the more Miquella learned about his mother and the things she'd done, he eventually came to a similar conclusion. He goes from wanting to help his sister, his brother, and the downtrodden of the Lands Between, to abandoning all of that, and manipulating his sister into nuking Caelid, because none of it matters anymore. The new world he's going to build will be perfect so no deed is too dark if it means getting there. The God of Rot can have Caelid, the Haligtree, and Melania. Once Miquella is a God he can bring them all back and purify them. Godwynn can stay undead and spread through the Lands Between like a cancer. Once Miquella is a God he can fix that. He just needs a few more corpses to reach his new kingdom and his mother's old one is too corrupt to be worth saving. Miquella resembles his mother more than any of the other demigods. An optimistic, but naive child.
Does that also explain why there are no new endings in the dlc? Because you can never actually move forward with your inner child? It’s changed, you can’t go back… fuck! This has me fucked up
The Archaeologist and the Psychologist are probably my two favourite lore channels :D Always happy to see a long form video in my feed!
With out a doubt
Literally 2mins in and you talking about the importance of environmental story telling and how its absent from the kore community greatly or, more needed, YES. THANKYOU.
yes, in particular regarding the dlc, people seem to purposely ignore certain details that they would have noticed in the first souls games
Agreed 100%
FEATURE LENGTH LETS GO!
@@JackisaMimic Jack what are you doing here bro shouldn't you be working on a video now??? 😂😂😂
@@MicEBeats Let’s call this “research”
When you realize Miyazaki and Martin low-key made the best Persona game. Seriously though, this analysis is mind-blowing O.O
Watching this at 10k subs feels like buying bitcoin in 2012
Accurate
Yes!
On the note that Ranni is an Empyrean but not born of one god - the Cuckoo is a bird which lays its egg in another bird's nest. That host bird then raises the cuckoo as its own, and the cuckoo sees it as its mother.
This alone could be hinting that Ranni is a bastard - born of Marika/Radagon, then left to be raised by the Carians, who were the only group Marika could not oppress or win victory against in war.
There's more evidence, but it's too much to go into without visual aids, but the theming is absolutely there.
That's a fantastic idea. It would also make sense with Ranni's scheming and deceptive nature for her to be an expression of Marika's deception of the Carians
This.
Yeah that's good stuff and makes a ton of sense.
But Ranni's fate is linked to the stars, which is a Carian thing. She is also not cursed like all Marika and radagon's offspring.
Maybe the cuckoo's egg is the amber egg, and Renalla's own children got kicked out of the nest as Radagon became the elden lord?
Yeah my personal lore belief is that Rennala was always infertile which is why Ranni and Radagon were both so important to her and why the amber egg was brought to her in the first place. This also explains why she’s unable to complete her silver tear children. Her womb doesn’t function and Radagon/Marika served both purposes.
I think the Frenzy Flame represents players trying to understand the lore of the Elden Ring. You will lose your mind.
hahaha 100% accurate
Me: *crumples up own theories and tosses into trash*
Bravo. Excellent explanation. Heading over over to watch 1st episode.
I´m gonna be honest, at first i wasnt really convinced with the whole psychological thing going on, but the more i think of it the more it makes sense. Its really wild. Even the body of Godwyn (concept of Death) is hidden deep below Leyndell (Marika´s mind), and spreading as a disease. And following this thread, the whole thing of "God" and "Outer gods" makes a lot more sense, thinking on Marika as the God of HER world, and the Outer Gods maybe as other persons of the outside world influencing her psyche. I really like the idea of Elden Ring´s plot being "What happens when a God, capable of changing reality itself, is traumatized?". Really interesting aproach!
Bro is making me understand my own traumas with an Elden Ring Lore video, thanks bro 👊
I have no clue what sparked me to search up this grand video.
Thank you for expressing these insightful collations between life and the lands between. 🙏
I saw this in my feed, saved it to my 'lore to sleep to' playlist, hit play on said list, and immediately got mild anxiety from the opening. xD I was not prepared for a solo heartbeat that just stops!
sorry about that! :)
@CenteredTarnished Lol no worries, I took a minute, restarted the video just after the intro bit and slept pretty well!
Elden Ring: The Fractured, but Whole
lol great video man
When in doubt, try fingers.
I really appreciate your unique perspective based on themes of human psychology. It broadened my interpretation and understanding of the story while also encouraging me to further learn about some of the works you brought up as context. It blew my mind so to speak, and I am really grateful I was able to experience all of that because I randomly stumbled upon your channel, so thank you!
I also have some criticism that resurfaces with most of your recent videos - while I believe you are getting the bigger picture mostly correct, I also think there are some issues with how you want to put your narrative into practice by selectively interpreting or dismissing various in game references and then drawing conclusions based on that.
One thing I have realized is when we try narrowing this complex story through a single scope of interpretation it always starts to crumble at some point and it's only a matter of time before you need to start reaching and filling the blanks with head canon.
Anyway, I am looking forward to the next chapters and hoping the choir music background isn't gone for good!
Thank you for making this video. I really do think you have shone a light on this story that makes so much sense and adds to the richness of the narrative around the game. It does feel like these was Miyazaki’s intention. Another detail is the shattering wars, which I believe is an allegory for the inner parts of Marika’s psyche (the demigods) competing with each other, but of course ultimately none were successful.
Oh, have you looked at all the reliefs in Elphael? Specifically the really big ones with little cherubs peeling open something to reveal a tree?
From a purely "realistic" perspective it also makes sense. (Although its more or less the "restrictions of game design" perspective):
The world of Elden Ring, while big in terms of a game, is quite small when considered as a "real" world - where are all the people in the trailers supposed to come from if there are no villages or other cities around? You can walk across the entire Lands between in a few hours after all, that is tiny.
So, a sort of made up dreamworld makes sense in that regard. Im currently not quite entirely on that boat, but the insights into the psychological aspects were fascinating!
Thank you for your content!
I love this game and love listening to the lore, but always felt unsatisfied with many other content creators since they failed to grasp the big picture. Watching your videos really helps me make sense of the incredible game.
Man, what an intro. Top notch stuff CT
You have a very unique perspective. It’s really cool how you look at the bigger picture. It’s really easy to miss the forest through the trees in fromsoft games. That being said getting into granular detail is interesting too and still has its place
I would love to hear what you think about each ending. Your videos are so different from all the Elden Ring lore videos that I watched. Thank you!
That is in the pipeline!
@@CenteredTarnished Cool!
Stand back! HE'S COOOKING!
The first four minutes of this video are absolutely fire! The ER lore community has widely forgotten the environment, naming conventions, and other aspects of how From tells a story as if descriptions are the only things that matter. Great stuff. Excited to watch the rest!
Play by play here: almost half way through and CT, you absolutely cooked. Maybe it's because I'm going through my own personal burnout and "re-integration" process but wow does this click for me so far.
We are all so busy trying to understand who this character is or what "charm" means, that we are missing what this world is trying to communicate.
End: yeah that was incredible. Does it answer every question or make sense of every lore description? No. But this is the direction we need to head, thinking about themes and motifs.
Like this adds so many layers to the Night of Black Knives, for example. The cold and distant rebellious child offs herself and the Perfect Golden Child in an effort to escape the pain of her fate. One aspect of Marika's fragmented self sabotages another and ends up leading to a complete breakdown and shattering of the self. Wow.
100%! My biggest gripe with the ER community is many of the big channels often look at a question with two possibilities, and pick the one that tells the worse story but is slightly more backed up by item descriptions. Miyazaki and Co. aren’t just feeding us lore, they’re telling us stories with themes and messages! The lore telling a thematically resonant and consistent story is just as important as tying together item descriptions.
Case in point: people saying the Realm of Shadow was veiled much later after Marika’s apotheosis because “how else would Messmer’s army/Crucible Knight Denovia have gotten there?”. This ignores the massive thematic (and practical) problem of Marika just leaving evidence of her sordid past, and all the skeletons and trauma in her closet in clear view in the Lands Between for all to see. The answer to how those characters got there is “it’s magic, I any gotta explain shit” lol.
@@danieldirocco8282 as if the same goddess who ripped an entire landmass apart and put a chunk of it in its own shadow realm can't then also send an army there 😂.
@@TSpoon823like we can teleport there through grace. I'm sure Messmer could do the same
Been with you since the first video buddy and never doubted. This video is a great effort and a satisfying drawing-together of all your research. Well done and thank you. 🙏🏻
Wow. This is one of the best and most unheard of takes on the lore of elden ring. What a great watch.
This was very enlightening. Thank you.
Incredible video brother, very well constructed and immediately puts pieces together I haven't heard anyone else mention. I'm a little ashamed to admit I was one of the comments vying for Elden Beast existing prior to the Elden Ring, but I concede: there are few UA-camrs shaping the narrative of Elden Ring as well as yourself. Thank you for sharing your insights so well my friend, looking forward to the next one.
Absolutely fascinating ideas and fantastic video. One thing that I have not seen anyone else discuss is the idea that Malenia and the scarlet rot may represent Marika's puberty and first menses. I have three daughters and I can tell you, they all can be as fierce as Malenia!
It's heavily implied that Vyke was seduced by Shabriri with the same "deal" he tries to give us: take the flame, spare your maiden. So Vyke's frenzy would necessarily predate his maiden's death. Either he killed her himself in his madness, or perhaps she took her own life as a result of his madness, but her being murdered leading to his madness is by far the least likely sequence of events there imo.
VaatiVidya needs more people on his team to compete with this.
Impressive.
Incredible take, this needs to be shared in the community
thank you!
Well done! That was an awesome watch. Keep it up!
Thanks, will do!
Those strings + lore bombs = chills
im still trying to figure out what exactly happens in the DLC trailer, FatBrett just posted a video suggesting that Marika made the gates of divinity, not the Hornsent.
ive been thinking about that, if she did create them, what was their purpose
i considered maybe she created the gate as her own "two fingers", made from the corpses of the hornsent, as a way to communicate with the greater will
It's definitely possible. I don't think anyone "created" them as I see them more as a metaphor. Like I don't think Marika stacked bodies up to make them, but rather they symbolize her traumas and dark past - the reason she became a god in the first place.
"Yeah but how Miyazaki would know about all of this psychology stuff??" - Miyazaki has a major in social sciences and reportedly loves reading all sorts of things, including books on psychology and sociology.
I think this is gg, dude. Well done!
I'm watching the video, and it is *much* lower in volume than the baseline volume for UA-cam. When the ads hit, I get *blasted* by the volume in them because I've turned up the volume so much to hear your video.
Another banger!
I’m still scratching my head regarding Godwyn and the night of the black knives in the context of displaying Marikas trauma healing journey. Will you dive into this or maybe I missed it in another video?
Thanks for putting this together, one of my favorite series in the ER lore universe. 🔥
Thank you!! I will be making a video on this, but it relates to the dark night of the soul. If you look that up, you may get an idea of what I mean :)
Halfway through and this is pure unalloyed gold! 🍯
This is 500% spot on. Damn. Was fighting the Putrescent Knight last night after watching this and realized that you literally drop into a uterus-shaped chasm.
All to say, this made me look at the game in a whole new way. Thanks for your work!
Assuming you are already aware but i didn't see it mentioned in the vid. Promised Consort's Arena is literally encircled by a bunch of statues that are straight up the Salvator Mundi.
I noticed those the moment I entered Enir Ilim. I have a feeling that Tarnished Archaeologist is going to get into that at some point in the next few months.
I don't agree with quite a few ideas, but I still agree with many, and it's a brilliant analysis.
@@BLK_MN thank you!
Same, the psychology makes sense but it doesn't answer why Miquella needs to die, if Miquella ascending to godhood is what the Greater Will or Marika wants then why is the Tarnished sent to end him? Wouldn't it make more sense for the Tarnished to become Miquella's consort as another ending?
@@afroizethe way I see it is that Miquella’s ascension isn’t healing, he sacrifices everything, including his love. That is not the process of healing trauma, he isn’t self-actualising, he is vulnerable and perpetuating a cycle of trauma, but as a victim himself or through the naivety of childhood. The tarnished is the one that collects the greatrunes and returns them to Marika, that is the path of healing. That is just my current line of thinking, though.
If youve ever seen the movie, "The Cell" its a perfct example of what you are discussing. Love it
😮yoooooooo 🤯
Edit: YOOOOOOOOOO!!! 😲🤯😱🙀🌀🌪️⚡☄️🌋😵😵💫💀
I've been eagerly watching enumerable amount of lore videos on the specifics and detailed aspects of the direct story in the game from dozens of channels that's still continuing to increase, since the first waves of videos started being uploaded when the base game came out and enough time had passed for people to have enjoyed and played through it. And I've always thought it's incredible how much lore has come out and how there's still so much that's unexplained it seemed.
And then I get this video recommended and now I've learned all that previous stuff was just the microverse of lore. Cause here we have the exposure of the Macrolore that's been right there the whole time O.O
Bravo! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Seriously, just incredible video. Mind genuinely blown. Loved it.
10/10
Will highly recommend lol
Fantastic
@@whooll thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed
Slaps a copy of Jung on the table: “this baby can explain so much lore!”
The Empyreans having 4 aspects, 4 arms and all that, I think is because of 4 temperaments of humans from psychology, but into one being: Sanguine, Phlegmatic, Choleric and Melancholic.
You. I enjoy your content. I (personally) feel as if you’ve teased out the macro-theme. I hope the universe grants you whatever it is that you need, so you can continue making your content, for humans like me to enjoy.
Ranni is a. Daughter of marika and radagon
Yall guys are the best lore tubers like you TA and 2 others ill edit later on. he has like 10 k subs like you and basically explained everything. i was astounded
Im not with you on the whole, everything is just in Marika's psyche thing, but, your points on all the mental stuff in being bases for the characters, Miquella is the inner child and such, that im sold on.
St Trina has literally shown us that these characters can literally split them selves into multiple versions. St Trina is to Miquella, what Radagon is to Marika. St Trina is Miquella's love that he just split off somehow. Marika must have been splitting off aspects of herself as well, prime one being Radagon, but yeah maybe even more. I was thinking this divesting technique must be a trick that you get from being an empyrean. But he does get rid of it, although i think last?
Ive also been thinking about the ghost forms that some people have. Miquella has his ghost form, everything divested, and hangs on radahns shoulder. Ranni has a Ghost form. She killed her own body to become that. It's more blue because she's more magic aligned. Miquella is gold because he's golden order aligned. Prolly is unalloyed Gold. And then there is one more ghost form that we see; Serosh who is hanging over Godfrey's neck just like Miquella over Radahn. I think this proves that Serosh was an empyrean at one point, as im thinking this divesting must be an empyrean trick. Serosh's color is also interesting, kinda golden but not, more neutral.
Oh and one thing that annoys me, Empyreans get a shadow wolf. Where the fuck is Miquella's? And where are his two fingers?
Miquella being ancient doesn't track. Miquella isn't the only one that knows about the golden order, Rykard could be said to know more than most and we are given a clear line where he gained that knowledge, and it is after he is established as a great leader in his own right, with his own lands and own people. Miquella is clearly shown in game to not be the only one that has this knowledge of Marika's origin, we also have Ranni hinting that she knows. We are also shown in game that Goldmask gains this knowledge eventually. It's not an illogical stretch to imagine Miquella gained this knowledge and instead of shunning the Golden Order, fighting against it or ignoring it completely he chooses to discover how it came about so that he can use that power to create a new order, instead of having to be there to witness the beginning.
Yeah I agree as it relates to the lore on the surface. Miquella and Malenia probably were born later, and Messmer and Melina born sooner. Still, the thematic point can still be there even if the chronology is mixed around some.
@@TSpoon823 I think there's a clear danger that the lore community in general keeps falling into the same trap of playing with the timeline to fit the lore, despite the clear evidence to the contrary.
A good example here is the saga of the Gloam Eyed queen, we're given a wealth of real in game evidence that shows that Marika lived an entire lifetime in between her first 'ascension' from Shaman to Empyrean, and her godly ascension at the divine gate.
That first ascension bestows the understanding and power of runes upon her, we know this for many reasons including the fact that she used the rune of death on the Gloam Eyed queen before giving it to Malaketh, all before her godly ascension. We also know that the hornsent refer to her by many derogatory names that centre on betrayal, which clearly shows there had to be time for the hornsent to build that attitude.
It's illogical to then assume that Miquella, Mesmer or anyone of the other demigods, existed at this time. They are a clear result of Marika attempting to reconcile aspects of herself, as we see mirrored in Miquellas quest.
The evidence doesn't back up all these nonsense timeline assumptions, yet the lore community continues with questions that have been answered in game because it fits their personal narrative.
@@shadquirk607 agreed for sure. Though I don't know if it's explicitly stated that Marika used the Rune of Death on the GEQ but I wouldn't be surprised. Either way, there are things that we don't know and things we can know, like you're saying. And as an avid fan of GEQ theorizing, I appreciate the example lol.
Like parts of the timeline. We know the Golden Order preceded the Erdtree. The First Church of Marika all but confirms this. And the Golden Order came at the defeat of the GEQ. Therefore, the GEQ and Godskin hunt was BEFORE the Erdtree. It can't be any other way.
This DLC is an expansion with lore that they had written before the base game was released. Sometimes this makes us go back to the drawing board, but other times we can see it all fit together if we take a step back and remember what they already gave us for sure.
Like you perspektive of Elden Ring lore. But i have a question. What are the Tarnished and especially we as becoming Elden Lord are representing?
Mind-blowing theory.
In this concept, what are the Tarnished?
This video just blew my Leyndell 🤯
If something is between two rivers it's symbolism. For something being stuck or is governed by 2 currents. 2 different forces or flows. They flow in same direction but can have two aspects. TL:DR Multiple aspects of unity.
I always thought the map was a curled finger similar to the ones we use as tarnished, but maybe I'll have to look through your videos to find that one.
Hey CenterdTarnished, I'd like to scratch your brain a bit since you're into exactly both my kind of things at present - exploring childhood trauma and Elden Ring.
I've been cogitating on your take on the world and pushing the concept as far as can go in my head. Hear me out:
The Tarnished is the outer world of Marika, the external point of view, the reaction the world has to offer to her inner experiences. There's a whole spectrum of attitudes one should expect from other people if you expose them to your inner truth, but the way the Tarnished experiences the LB looks pretty much how people behave or react when confronted with someone else's baggage.
It goes from fear, terror, disgust, violent rejection, and guilt, to disdain, indifference, morbid curiosity, and obsession, to careful exploration, mutual discovery, and candid curiosity.
Another idea you've made me think of is that the endings also reflect the stance most people take on the kind of journey one takes when dealing with their buried pain. They're the consequence of the Tarnished's decision, not Marika's!
@@allthe1 hey! I’m glad you are enjoying the content! I like the idea of the tarnished being representative of the outside world. I think there is a little more to it from a lore perspective but from a purely psych standpoint, it makes sense.
I think one of the things most people do without realizing is projection- which I believe is a major reason for why people choose the endings they do. I think you are right about the endings being consequences of our actions and not Marika’s but on an unconscious/ projection kind of way.
For example, if someone was bullied and hasn’t dealt with that pain- my guess is they will be drawn to Dungeater’s ending where everyone can feel their pain. They are probably unaware of why they even chose that ending but have a deep connection to it.
@@CenteredTarnished When I first learned about the endings I hadn't finished my first playthrough, so I was anxious to see all of them. In the end the best quest by far was Ranni, and her ending seemed to me the most courageous, responsible, and lucid. But I have to say the frienzied flame was a tempting one 🫠
I agree with projection being ubiquitous. A lot of us pick favorites among the demigods, probably according to our own trauma experience and buried emotional needs, and the fantasy world we built in our lives.
What was your favorite ending?
The house is on fire and were trying to find an out fit that matches our sneakers
Something I hadnt thought about until the brain and eye speculation is that melina and Ranni have opposite eyes open perhaps reflecting one is dealing with the external more logical world and the other the more emotional intangible inner world related directly to Marika. I think we can guess which is which. Then theres the fact that messmer was given an eye but has only a pit with a serpent in it now maybe reflecting his blindness. We also dont see Miquellas eyes open when we see him in the game itself (not sculptures of course) or at the very least they are very closed. Interesting food for thought.
Well this is genius. Well done mate.
love the ziostorm impression at 33 minutes
On your comment on Miquella’s location on the Lands-Between-Body at 50:15, just wanted to leave some thoughts:
Firstly, the Haligtree and Miquella (the child of a God) being situated above the head as a new growth reminded me, oddly, of Athena. The Goddess of Wisdom, iirc, wasn’t born from intercourse, but from a thought of Zeus, who then birthed her from his own head. Could there be something there?
Secondly, Miquella’s actual location. The Haligtree being by the head as a new growth could signify a new beginning, as you say, but Miquella, of course, isn’t actually there. Rather than at the Consecrated Snowfield, the head of the Lands-Between-Body, Miquella’s located below Caelid, in a lower part of the body.
Now, one thing I’ve had issue considering is Miquella’s villainous role, with the DLC making him the final boss despite the symbolism surrounding him being positive, redeeming; the solution, instead of a problem to be solved via sword point. Could this location hint at a twist here? Maybe the affair and seduction spoken of by Miquella relates to this? The absent home and actual relation showing the difference between a high philosophy and any lust and avarice it may conceal?
Also, other thing, what does Metyr and her story symbolise in the psychological framework? It could explain your misgivings with the seemingly nonsensical Greater Will, since it turns out the all powerful being was never in play, and it was in fact just Metyr making do how best she could.
I love the connection to Athena being a thought of Zeus and that’s how she was birthed. brilliant.
Do you think it was Miquella’s choice to be kidnapped by Mohg?
@@CenteredTarnished On Miq and Mohg, it seems like it. Starting with what other videos and theories have observed, we know Mohg was charmed by Miquella, and we know Miquella was actually at the battle of Caelid, given he was there to heal Freyja. Since Mohg resides below Caelid, many theories go that Mohg’s “kidnapping” was an inside job, a bloody escort service, or both. Mohg could’ve brought Miq to Caelid so he could catch up with his sister and his consort and/or so he could possibly use the aftermath of the Caelid fight as fuel for his Shadow-Realm visit. Or so the theories go.
Moving on, though, the whole microcosm/same-but-different/cyclical nature of Elden Ring’s story supports this through what it could infer on Marika’s story. For Marika to seduce/betray the Hornsent, she would have to have been loved by them, and possibly even love them in turn. For Mohg to rhyme with the perpetrators of Marika’s trauma, his love would have to rhyme with theirs. Thus, like Marika once seduced the Hornsent, Miquella charmed Mohg, controlling his every action then discarding him in the end. Or perhaps not as many proposed timelines have Marika and the Hornsent coexisting for a while up until Messmer’s crusade, likely continuing their deplorable practices despite the reigning God Queen’s distaste for them. Perhaps in this way, Mohg acted mostly of his own accord during the Shattering, only dedicating his work to Miquella but not following him; it would seem OOC for Miq to condone blood worship, butchery and sacrifice on the scale of the Mohgwyn Dynasty’s.
And this could all culminate in the modern day, with the Hornsent NPC and Ansbach. The Hornsent, discarded and condemned by the God Queen’s order, naturally hate Marika. Ansbach, when he realised how his lord was being manipulated came to fear Miquella to the point of attempting assassination; a sentiment he would retake once Miq’s charm broke. The only difference here is the nascency of the divinity’s order and the vengeance. The Hornsent can only defy Marika long after her betrayal, whilst Ansbach can help the Tarnished nip Miquella’s new order right at the bud.
This video has genuinely blown my mind because it makes almost every single mystery within the game make sense, but I would like to give my two cents as I believe the idea that the lands between is simply the inner mind of Marika does not fully explain certain aspects of the story. It's always important to remember that stories come from the minds of other people, and because of that, intent and bias will be prevalent within the stories they tell. Would it not be more likely that the Lands Between is a literal place, not something within Marika's mind, and the reason they told the story of this game the way they did was to experiment with the idea of bringing the psychology of Marika they created into a fictional place they also created? There's so much in the game that seems to have just enough disconnect from Marika that it was beyond her control, and if that's the case what if Marika is a representation of someone dealing with trauma BUT they are the creator and God of the world they live in. I understand that it's a stretch to say Marika just existed and got bored so she decided to make the Lands Between from nothing, but is that not what we assume the Greater Will is? The Greater Will, the Elden Ring, the Erdtree and Scadutree; they all can simply be assumed to be Marika embodied in different ways. For example, Marika is kept in the Erdtree by the Greater Will for shattering the Elden Ring because she could not protect her child self she so desperately wanted safe, so much so in fact she destroyed all evidence that that child existed by removing the Land of Shadow from the Lands Between and removing Farum Azula from time itself. While this example is not something I can say I fully believe, the fact they all tie together so easily gives credence to there being more than a psychological story being told here. Instead of taking the psychological aspect of the story so literally, we should try and strike a balance between the mind and body, the spiritual and the physical. The Lands Between and Land of Shadow are real physical places, with real people within them. However, this is a world controlled by a single will, a will that has gone through extreme trauma likely from its own experimental creation. Her psychological state is being represented in the game, and in turn her psychological state is changing the world around her simply because she has the power to do so. There's just no way to extend Marika's psychological state to the relationship between Diallos and Jarburg, however we can easily tie Marika's physical being with this relationship. The Elden Ring, Erdtree, Greater WIll, etc. are all real physical things, or were at some point. It's why the Tarnished and so many others have the ability to change them, with or without Marika's Grace. However, they all seem to represent different aspects of Marika's psyche. Both of these can be true and the story still makes sense.
Something else I'd like to say is how much your frustration with the lore community is appreciated. I really hated how lacking in emotion the lore hunting for this game has been. Sure, it's cool that mushrooms are a massive focal point of the lore, but what does that have to do with the fact that Miquella is trying to ascend to godhood?! You can tie these two events together from a logical standpoint but why the hell would they write a story just to flex mushroom knowledge?! Elden Ring is a very human story, exploring humanity's past, our psychology, our different beliefs, religions, and sciences. It even deals with the idea of struggling against undefeatable forces, and how without the player, every person you meet is fated to die horrible deaths, with no hope. Ranni would have likely never succeeded with the player. Millicent, despite dying in the end, would have never been able to become her own person, truly separate from Malenia and her psyche. Miquella, despite his affliction of never being able to succeed in his plans, is still able to ascend to godhood with your help. And yet there you are, Marika's new Lord ready to put an end to Miquella's dream. These people are constantly going AGAINST Marika's will, and yet they still fight. There is little to no hesitation for most of them as they already know this world is not their own. They do not believe that there should be any reason to give up and succumb to what so many within the Lands Between have. Marika is in a constant war with herself, but also her creations. They represent aspects of herself not just because it's in her mind but because she has brought her trauma into the real world, likely subconsciously. It means that every facet of life and death in the lands between is held back by her, and her constantly contradictive actions. It deals so well with the idea that the biggest thing stopping us is ourselves, while making a God that rules over an entire world go through that exact problem. That alone should bring into perspective how important the emotional and psychological aspects of the game truly are. Marika, being important in every historical setting in the game is no coincidence from a story telling perspective either. If you wanted to explore the human mind and body fully, especially through a story, human history is the best inspiration. Why not make one person represent all of it? Why not put a person into this world you've created that shows ALL of humanity's struggles by existing for all of known history? I honestly think that's far more important than the fact that the Finger Mimic item is the same thing as the Dead Man's Fingers mushroom we have in real life, and I'm more inclined to believe you would feel the same way. For that I'm genuinely thankful as I was getting tired of people getting mad at not understanding the timeline when we still don't understand the characters. I'd much rather know why the characters did what they did than when they did it.
@@gen_bay2948 100% this. I think one thing I need to work on is communicating this thought better- that Marika is a God who has control over everything in the LB and what happens when a God goes through trauma.
I agree about the smaller, side stories not being representative of Marika’s inner world. Well kind of. Now that we understand Marika’s past, the story of Jarburg and Diallos is much more powerful and deeper.
At any rate, I love this comment and appreciate the feedback and your thoughts!
@@CenteredTarnished Glad we agree for the most part, it's honestly had me thinking so much over the past day, especially in relation to the possibility that torrent's previous master was Marika as well, considering Melina and Ranni both know of his existence and in Melina's case outright helped in getting Torrent to you. And Marika's connection to spirits is perfect considering Torrent is a spirit. Then the fact Miquella is seen riding him in the DLC promo image, it would make sense if Miquella is an aspect of Marika that while he was in the Land of Shadow once before, he used Torrent. The connection between body and mind in this game is likely the missing piece we need to solve the mystery behind what truly happened, in relation to the Gloam Eyed Queen, Godwyn, the Night of the Black Knives. It all ties into not just Marika's past actions but her past emotional state and her connections with people on a psychological level. I can't wait to replay this game all the way through and explore it with this idea in my head, it will likely recontextualize everything for me. Thanks again for the video, very refreshing!
While this theory isn't something i 100% subscribe to, you provided enough evidence and gave enough examples that it's believable and thoroughly enjoyable. I can understand how you came to each conclusion and have just one question; in viewing the world of Elden Ring in this scope, what would the Fingers, Mother of Fingers, and The greater will represent? (If this is answered in a different video or if i just missed their significance in this video, then my bad 😅)
7:42 4 chaos emeralds, count them!
I find all of this incredibly fascinating. And I think its a really unique perspective on this story, with clear parallels to these concepts evident in the game. In your opinion, under these parameters, what role do we play as the Tarnished? Are we merely a witness to this broken psyche or are we an inner force of healing and change, each ending resulting in a kind of varied path to resolving the trauma?
I'll be making a video on this soon, so stay tuned!
@@CenteredTarnished Very much looking forward to it
Very impressive and convincing, as we know as well fromsoftware did build their lores on the psychological and religious philosophy especially even in demon souls
This seems more thematic/allegorical than pure lore.
Im so grateful to pc players for helping me better understand the lore. For some reason I am obsessed with this world abd findinf the deeper meanings of it grant meaning to my life.
Everytime I learn something new there is always a new question that pops up the seems to render my previous conclusions obsolete(?)
It seems like in order for me to truly understand the lore of this game, I need to know who GRRM is as an author, various concepts of philosophy, and practices of ancient civilizations. A lot of things I am unable to dive into myself. I am also guilty of applying mortal restrictions to gods. Like of course Marika would give birth to fractures versions of herself in a way that mantles the Greater Wills fracture of itself; She's a GOD, duh! So I'm grateful for creators to be able to help me reconcile with certain conclusions when Im too busy experiencing ny own turmoil to be able to do them myself.
I recently watched the mushroom theory from Ziostorm, and I realized how this game truly parallells reality.
Right now, we are living on a planet that feeds on and is empowered by death. I call it a death planet (im going through some things right now lol). Every aspect of Earth involves consuming death in order to provide/fuel life. Almost every living being feeds off of death to provide the power of life, which in turn feeds something. When we eat food, we are eating the death of something else, and we gain nutrients, and vitamins giving us strentgth, and power, and continued life. And when we die, our death provides continued life for so many beings big and small. And in a sense, this realization has made me less afraid of death.
It is merely a cycle.
Doesn't that make Frenzy the chaos in ones mind, the part they can't control and that can lead them to insanity and self-harm?
Yes! it’s very similar to Bloodborne’s madness. basically the mind can’t handle it anymore
Thought of that immediately! You look at the internal pain and fracturing and decide that nothing is worth saving. You become one with the suffering. Chaos takes the "world" and you burn it all down.
Think about the Abyssal Woods. A place once flourishing and beautiful is now the lowest, darkest, and most hidden area in the whole game. The church there has no image of Marika at all. And in the depths we find a home and a man trapped by madness and suffering. What does he say before he literally takes his own life and embodies madness? "Enough. I have suffered enough." And then Chaos begins to burn before we stop him.
@@TSpoon823 Now that you mention the Church, those usually have statues of Marika. But overall, in the DLC, all statues of her have their head taken off. As you do when you go Frenzy.
Imo, is the truth of the trauma itself. The event made flesh, hence why its symbol is an opened burning eye. The lands between is like a cosmic coping mechanism, while the flame of frenzy is facing the reality. By facing the reality, the lands between die. However facing the trauma without the right precaution is far more dangerous than using coping mechanisms. The mind shuts down, just as the soul burns with the flame of frenzy.
Re: what I would say if asked what the GW is:
I would propose (the possibility) that the Greater Will is whatever the person with the Greatest Will says it is. I've wondered whether the GW is like the concept of the Mandate of Heaven in Chinese History; the Mandate is proven by the victory.
In the context of these psychological allusions and connections, I'd hazard without too much consideration that the GW refers to the process of individuation. In this context, the LOS is the Shadow of the Persona which is TLB. The existence of Omen, and later Those Who Live in Death among all of the other things that are seeming out of step with the Golden Order are the result of refusing to integrate the Shadow.
Alternatively, combining the Mandate of Heaven idea with this notion of Empyreans containing multitudes, maybe the GW is again: the victory of the personality (or majority among them), or of the concepts they represent or favor (thoughts, ambitions, principles they would follow) that win out, HAVE and ARE the Greater Will.
Lastly, the GW could refer to what is Established or come to pass. In other words, the fact that X happened instead of any other possible outcome in a chain of causality is representative in itself, of the Greater Will of time and/or causality. The GW is simply what NOW is, metamorphosized from what WAS.
I've just reached the Lands of Shadow for the second time. Looking forward to another lore/archetype pondering journey. I will consider the GW some more.
This is an amazing take on Elden ring. Can you please watch and breakdown the Twin Peaks series next?
So amidst all this psychological analysis of this fictional character, what do mushrooms and fingers mean? What's your psychological analysis of these elements.
Also, it seems like this is worth saying. I accept the story that is presented to me because this is literally what is presented to me via item descriptions. I understand you don't see it that way but that interpretation is just as valid as your interpretation.
Oh I agree, I just think that the environment can tell us just as much, if not more, about the story compared to only using item descriptions. It seems like if you can't corroborate a theory with an item description, it get's thrown out as a ridiculous head canon. But we on this channel have been able to accurately predict some big things that no one else did because we take the environment as a huge piece of the lore puzzle.
My only issue is when people can only use the item description to explain a concept. For example, if you can explain to me what you think the Elden Beast is without echoing an item description, that tells me you have a clear understanding of the story. It's like trying to define a word by using the word to define it.
@@CenteredTarnished without an item description, the Elden Beast looks otherworldly and cosmic. With humanoid hands and feet, an amoeba like mass, eerily aquatic tail and what seems to me, insect like wings. The shape of his weapon reminds me of the structure of DNA 🧬. It looks like a god, the game even tells me it is one upon its defeat.
I'm sure it's very close to what you're describing, because your analysis of Marika and "take" on the Lands Between reminds of the seven gods who are one within ASOIAF. As far as the design of the Elden Beast, maybe it's just a weird fever dream a character designer had that Miyazaki has had input in.
All that to say that without item descriptions I would have no idea what the Elden Beast is. I honestly didn't see or experience anything told visually to help me understand that confrontation except that the finger slaying blade looks similar to its weapon. And those tree trunks that are always in most games ...
@@davatho Here are my thoughts/ interpretations
- Hewg is tasked with killing a god. Rodricka says that God is Marika.
- The EB OST comes on when Marika ascends the gates of divinity
- The EB has the same exact wound as Marika (in the belly)
- Both Marika and the EB use Radagon as a kind of physical vessel. It seems that when Marika needs something done, she sends Radagon to do it. When the EB emerges it uses Radagon's body as a physical weapon.
- Marika's scarseal is all about the spiritual elements, while Radagon's is all about the physical. The same way the EB fights you.
IMO there are a ton of clues about what the EB is without the item description just based on the environment, the side stories, connected elements, etc.
@@CenteredTarnished you see tons of clues. My first time around those elements were not apparent to me. All the points you just mentioned, someone else could see or think of something completely different.
That is what makes all of this speculative content fun and interesting to consume. Unless it's explicitly stated to be one way or another, it's literally up to interpretation based personal knowledge, experience or some particular bias.
I do love the emphasis on world building aspects, but I feel like it underrepresented smaller lore content creators to say "oh we don't look at it." That's the archeologists whole thing, and kitetails has been looking at statues for months
excited for this!
So all we needed to beat the game was to offer her a hug…!!!😢
Sort of puts Miquella's quest and his "charming" embrace in a different light, in my opinion. And what his "age of compassion" represents.
@@TSpoon823 that’s a neat observation…
10:20 “the only way is if he saw it before”
Or heard it firsthand from his mother?
Babe, wake up The Centered Tarnished just posted a new vid!
RE: Representations of parts of the physical body in the map/actual game world...
Not to regress to Bloodborne too much, buuuuuuuuut - the Erdtree/Scadutree, wouldn't they be representations of the umbilical cord connecting "what came before - the body that gestates" to "what is coming, the new age - whatever is being gestated"?
If so, I'd venture the primary traumas that need to be overcome are:
1.) Being born - going from what has to be a state of - I am - only and whole, and thus metaphorically "one great - with the only and greatest will".
And
2.) the death of a/both parents - the cognitive dissonce of "how is it even possible for the one that gave life to me to die?" The answer/Eldritch truth that can either froth you into a frenzied madness or provide The insight that is crucially necessary to moving on into the future:
Death is destined.
And the follow-up thought that I think leads to positive healing: destined less in the sense of magical powers that let someone Divine the future in advance, or otherwise, magically cause certain events to occur - but more so - events that happen are destiny and HAD to happen because they DID. Any given person moves the furthest distance they will ever be from any given event in their lives instantly, by experiencing the very next instant as the clock and mechanisms of time no one has control over... Ticks... Even a thousand years from an event as compared to an attosecond after... no person will ever be able to go into, let alone change the past and what happened.
The Uhl ruins I believe show the timeline of events within this universe. If you look at the monoliths from bottom to top, they seem to start from the prehistoric era with the Dragons. As you will see, similar statue iconography at the bottom of the Monoliths that you see in farum azula. There is another part on it. That depicts what looks like. The jarring process for creating saints. As well as some sort of tree birthing process that must depict the erdtree And then it also shows the stone coffin ships that we see as well in the shadowlands
Expedia was louder. They win. My hotel is booked.
Mohg kidnapping and defiling Miquella just like the Hornsent kidnapped and defiled Shamans and Marika, but Miquella in his wisdom goes inside the unconscious (shadowlands) to heal his (Marika's) world and become a god in his own right accepting of all, though I dont understand what we are supposed to be, we are just forced to kill Miquella and we cant even have a new ending
also the timing when Mohg kidnaps Miquella, as hes embedding himself in the tree, sort of like that statue of perhaps also Marika in the Shaman Village, thats why Miquella's Tree is so hidden and protected by an undefeated warrior, just like the Shaman Village is hidden and protected by the sentinels too, for it is the beginning of her trauma, the kidnapping
At 53:52 the tree with Marika in it is missing the same arm as Miquella, could Miquella be her inner child she’s trying to protect?
Empyreans aren't that different from a full god, both leave vestiges of their inner conflict scattered and scared into the very environment.
Farum Azula: Your brain on drugs.
Never liked a video before I watched it. Until now 😅 Let's go!!! 😁😁😁
Amazing video with lots of great discoveries! The ways in which you link everything to trauma and psychology is very compelling, and I really like this reading of the game's events.
One thing that I'd like to note is how this connects to the game's themes of alchemy. Considering how central of a theme alchemy is, I refuse to believe there isn't some interplay between psychology and alchemy here. Indeed, there have been several attempts to link alchemy to psychology, ranging from spiritual to academic. In this case, I think that the original works of Carl Jung might have had a huge influence on the artistic decisions taken in the game. He makes a direct connection to alchemy, having two books titled _Psychology and Alchemy_ and _Alchemical Studies_, and even another titled _The Philosophical Tree_ (sounds familiar?). The titular deity from his book _Aion_ might very well be the main inspiration for the divine beast warriors, as he's a lion-headed man who has a snake spiralling around his body. There's likely much more to find by researching his works.
I haven't read these books myself, but I've thought for a while that the process of attaining godhood must have something to do with the Magnum Opus, or Philosopher's Stone. Note how without fail, each of the ascensions of the various gods and lords are all attained through bloodshed. Marika's is surrounded by blood and gore at the Gate of Divinity, Miquella is holding onto a warlord while he's fighting the tarnished, Midra ascends after he's assailed by the tarnished, and Malenia lets the rot overtake her as a last resort in combat. This final stage aligns really well with the last stage of transmutation for the Magnum Opus. These stages are as follows: Nigredo (blackening), Albedo (whitening), Citrinas (yellowing), and Rubedo (reddening). It's clear that the stage of nigredo would represent loss or grief, and this does happen to all these ascended lords and gods. The final stage, rubedo, is bloodshed and assailment, in most of these cases against the tarnished. I don't exactly know what the other two stages might represent, perhaps obtaining some sort of stability and finding a belief system, basically attaining a coping mechanism, but it might be something different entirely.
@@zeppie_ I have read many of those alchemy books and can tell you they certainly are inspirations for ER. I would love to do a series on it but fear it will be rejected simply based on how “little” response the psychological approach gets. Maybe one day. That being said, I’ll give a very small example. Miquella clearly represents the inner god/ child in psych which correlates to mercurius in alchemy. Both are meant to unite the opposites and return to a state of unity. If there are any opposites within the game, it’s Mohg and Radahn. I don’t think Mohg was Miquella’s plan B. He needed the lowest of lows and highest of highs
I solved the timeline.
The flow of time itself is convoluted.
49:56 - capital literally means the head 😅
I love the macro theming, I think youre right on the money and the "Leyndell/Faram Azula are brains" is genius. That being said, if the entire story is symbolism, then whats the point of having a story? Like obviously theres a lot of symbolism, but stuff actually happens. There are orders of knights and cults and little groups in the Lands Between, its not just some random hellhole made from Marika's trauma. I just cant get behind videos turning all of the real, in depth lore into "its all just symbolism"
"What's the point of having a story?"
It's more fun.
To add just a bit. The story being heavily symbolic doesn't erase the lore or characters. It doesn't invalidate you or anyone else thinking they are (in their own right) cool or interesting. Their is obvious artistry in the writing, audio, and visual design. I think it just takes it to an entirely other level when you can take all those components and weave them together in a coherent way. I honestly do not think it's possible to make full sense of the ER lore/timeline without acceding that it is primarily symbolic in nature.
if miquella's actions represents the healing of trauma, what do you think it means that we aren't given a "miquella ending"? Ultimately his plans fail because we kill him and we aren't given any other paths in that regard.
@@joeyripcho6424 well, I think we are given a Miquella ending. It just requires us to sacrifice our own ending. I plan to make a whole video discussing the endings but I believe Miquella healing the shadow tree in the very last seconds of the DLC trailer is the “true” ending.
@@CenteredTarnished Interesting, I'm excited to see that one. Also love your videos, they provide some of the most unique and compelling theories I've seen in the lore community. Keep it up, this channel absolutely deserves 100k+ subscribers
@@joeyripcho6424 thank you! Maybe one day 🤞
@@CenteredTarnished That's actually genius! The story the game tells is also obviously about generational trauma looking at what Marika does to her children. Any of the endings can be interpreted as perpetuating that trauma through various means. The only way out of that cycle is to stop perpetuating it, or in this context to simply stop progressing the game
Love your work! You should export your audio at a higher level though, it's super quiet!
Do you think the Erdtree and Scadutree are supposed to be symbolic representations of a brainstem? Why are they called “Remembrances”? and then it goes on to say “remembrance hewn into the Erdtree”
@@sariathebrave5259 1,000%. It’s all an allegory to psychology.
Great content!
Why is this so quiet tho? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it is very quiet.
Finally someone saying these things! And put into words well, too! Something I have seen no one but you speak of, is how Marika seems to have been around from the Beginning with a capital B. Pre-history. Marika "The Eternal". Perhaps a sort of totem or object of worship used to control the world to enact the will of some red haired man (or dragon, or giant). You brought up the fact that every rune-mender dies. Idk about you, but Marika has looked pretty hung on a cross to death since I turned Elden Ring on for the first time. I think the point about Miquella being Marika in a real sense is underexplored and interesting. People seem to try to form some sort of linear timeline when all we have are repetitions of themes over eons of time, uncounted numbers of years, with the only clear throughline in it all being Marika herself.
If Melina can channel the ancient echoes of Marika I don't see why her other children, like Miquella, wouldn't have the same ability. It isn't necessary for Miquella to have been born so early in the timeline. I think he just went on a journey of discovery much like his mother had before the Shattering. Like her, he struck me as a true believer in the Golden Order in the beginning, but later on became increasingly disillusioned. Marika built an empire and a pantheon without truly understanding either.
After she "delved" into the Golden Order she made the decision to tear the whole thing down. I think the more Miquella learned about his mother and the things she'd done, he eventually came to a similar conclusion. He goes from wanting to help his sister, his brother, and the downtrodden of the Lands Between, to abandoning all of that, and manipulating his sister into nuking Caelid, because none of it matters anymore. The new world he's going to build will be perfect so no deed is too dark if it means getting there.
The God of Rot can have Caelid, the Haligtree, and Melania. Once Miquella is a God he can bring them all back and purify them. Godwynn can stay undead and spread through the Lands Between like a cancer. Once Miquella is a God he can fix that. He just needs a few more corpses to reach his new kingdom and his mother's old one is too corrupt to be worth saving. Miquella resembles his mother more than any of the other demigods. An optimistic, but naive child.
Just one question, what does the Tarnished represent?
I’ll be making a video on this soon as I get a lot of these questions!
Wait, does this mean Dragonlord Placidusax was once Marika's consort? Is this where the Draconians come from?
Does that also explain why there are no new endings in the dlc? Because you can never actually move forward with your inner child? It’s changed, you can’t go back… fuck! This has me fucked up
Is this the LORE of the Lands Between?