No One Hates Miraculous More Than It’s Fans - And Here’s Why
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- Опубліковано 28 січ 2024
- My god Miraculous, and specifically the fandom can be a toxic place at times. And today, I want to talk about why that is the case. Is it because of the fans? Are they the reason the show feels like wasteland sometimes? Or is it something more? Let's discuss!
- Розваги
This show is an example of why good story and execution must be together
Character development & writing too
I love the MLB movie. I'm biased towards the first season as I had a parent in intensive care and the show helped me cope while they recovered. (They have, thankfully) And French is nice. But the TV show is bad compared to the Netflix movie.
@@ninab.4540 The movie wasn't exactly a masterpiece, but yeah it gave me way higher levels of enjoyment than the show did
I was looking at some scrapped storyboard scenes and the finale of the movie was originally going to be so much cooler but I'm glad that they made Hawk Moth so menacing in it
EXACTLY
Also to know how to include your characters and give ‘em equal amounts of screen-time and character development instead of sidelining one for the other
This is exactly it. If a show has consistently mediocre writing, most people will simply move on while the fans enjoy what they have. HOWEVER, the lore and worldbuilding of MLB has had so much potential and has had great- even emotional- moments that when the writing fails so spectacularly, it's really dissappointing because we all know it *could* be better, but the creators keep making all the wrong choices.
IKR
Yes!
Agreed!
People loved some things about the show like Chat Noir, or Marinette at first was quirky (but if you keep the same rutine over and over again it became and obsesion, and that became the big problem of the show with Marinette and Ladybug) People asked for more Chat Noir and Adrien and were called sexists, and the quirky Marinette became a stalker and every time somebody complained the working team just put it worst.
I could like sugar, but if you put too much sugar in a recipe, is unedible. Then they tried to rute off "chat noir is not so perfect"... when he was the reason so many loved the show, the same happened with Chloe (people loves a good mean character and the redemption arc wasn't perfect but had great moments). And they had almost zero development of other characters in 5 seasons and over 100 episodes.
"I ain't reading all that" - said by people with no attention span
It's actually really sad when some fans of the show have proven to actually write way better rewritten storylines for Miraculous than the actual team. Hell, the movie even adds to this since the pieces from the show are all there, and utilized them the way people wanted to see in a good storyline.
Honestly the movie felt like a breath of fresh air for me.
Since I've seen a lot of fan animatics/animations of the show, so that itself showed it has potential. But actually having the movie show that potential is just so amazing. I don't mind that it's not perfect, since they can always improve on them in later installments, but it still does the show better justice than the show.
@@lavenderrose82 Right. My point exactly.
This is why I enjoy the fan comics its so much better and the writing is on point
Literally 90% of the ffs I've read are better than the show😭
@@cbcimutebi5564 Even crossovers fics can be added to this since they handle the material well.
If anything the movie proved how much potential this show has when it has the right people working on it.
Yep Zag has great ideas
@@littlesparrow303I agree
Now waiting for the second movie
Or just with some sort of coherent focus on the story they’re trying to tell rather than just throwing a bunch of individual ideas at the fan.
still wasn't great tho. Zag might have better ideas and execution than Thomas, sure. but his writing still sucks tho.
not so fun fact: since Chloe was based of of Atruc's bully, she was never meant to get redeemed, some writer wrote her redemption while Astruc was away
Джереми Заг и Матье Шоке
Maybe he should have left Chloe alone by then and make Lila the new Chloe lol
astruc based like 4 female characters after exes and another after his childhood bully... personal investment to this extent creates some baaad writing.
Well let's be honest here, is there any show that's blatantly mock the viewers in the most disrespectful way other than MLB? Abusive parents were forgiven, abused children are punished, racism victims were the one who apologize to the racist, sexual assault was shown but never acknowledged, making fun of trauma for 4 seasons? Bad writing on the plot is one thing, but mocking victims is a huge spat on the face
GOD how can a show I've been a fan of for over eight years since I was like seven or eight years old be so triggering now? 😭As someone who was a little boy when my favorite character became Chloe before I even acknowledged how bad my childhood was, and her being my comfort character now with her ruined arc is so disappointing
I'm not saying there wasn't, I just didn't watch every episode of the newer seasons, so I don't know what episode you're talking about. Where was sexual assault shown?
The first one that pops as an immediate hold up. Was with gang of secrets.
When Felix tried to forcefully kiss ladybug.
Why do I still remember that I barely watched that episode. And there's probably more with Gabe and Tsuguri wanted Adrien and Kagami to make grandkids for them. BUT I didn't watch that episode
@dirisiri1267
No, the episode where Félix tried to forcefully kiss Ladybug was the episode Félix from Season 3. In that episode Juleka, Rose, and Alya were akumatized into the Trip of Punishers. Though I would understand how you got the wrong episode as both had Marinette’s friends akumatized together
Trio*
People are more willing to put up with a subpar plot if the narrative is consistent, because they'll assume that it was intentional. When you have a good plot and a bad plot within immediate vicinity, that's when the complaints arise.
One minute it's really good, the next minute it turns into absolute trashfire and that REALLY gets into everyones nerve. Like- what is going On???
I just want this show to be better but I'm getting really tired of this...@@purpleirken1529
for some reason i really love this comment lol
Miraculous is like a black hole. It was once a shining star but now it's become a black hole that sucked you in and won't let you out. I've been watching this since I was 12... I'm 19 now and I still can't leave it alone (not bcoz I don't want to)
That l agree with
same, honestly I feel like the writers are just milking the show and the story, I used to have 3 friends, to speak and theorize about the story and the next episodes, and each episode used to answer a question or two, now I feel like it's just like a normal cartoon even though the teams fits more the teenager, I feel like i wasted a lot of my time, i feel betrayed honestly they had so much potential
true
it's like smoking addiction. I started watching when ı was 13, I'm over 20 now I still cannot leave. Maybe it's because of that child inside me is crying for lost potential
I'm glad I'm not the only one lol
Well... good thing fan fics exist
Our technical lord and savior Ao3
@@staydetermined6717 Amen.
the only reason i stay engaged within this fandom. also amen @staydetermined6717
u know its bad when wattpad fanfics writes better stories than the original source
It's the Best possible story, told in the Worst possible way. Hence the love/hate relationship.😂
A creative and addictive concept with a cringe and lazy execution.
You described it well!
Best summary as a fan
to be honest, they should’ve just condensed everything that’s happened into three seasons so then lila can be the villain for season 4.
That’s what I was thinking too!
Ofc they wanna stretch the show out as much as possible to get their buck.
The series is like a car crash you want to look away but you can’t and the more it keeps going on the worse it gets
When Miraculous started, it was cute, hilarious and had a great potential plot plan, and it seemed to be heading in a good direction.
However, at some point, it stopped focusing on plot and character development and just became overly invested in the love square and shipping more.
It became so focused on the love square and ship that the episodes started to just be about the ships and the akuma battles are nothing more.
By the time they got back on track with the plots original plan, everything was already too far off course.
By then, there were too many plotholes, they had already passed checkpoints in the show that were probably supposed to be for significant plot reveals in the story like say maybe the Agreste family backstory was supposed to be flashback scenes at different points in different seasons like the first set of flashbacks in the episode FELIX, then the next ones in the episode GABRIEL AGRESTE, and then the story full story comes to a close in season 5 with Gabriel's confession.
However, that didn't happen and the Agreste arc ended up all over the place with no exact directional focus except the decline of Gabriel's mental and moral state.
There's also the fact of Character development being added then retracted.
Some characters would experience a moment of character development one episode and then the next episode, it's like rhe character learned nothing at all in the previous episode or the lesson was nonexistent at all.
There's also the fact that the show seems to forget that it has two main protagonists and not just one as it's called *Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Chat Noir* but it seems to have transitioned to just *Miraculous Ladybug*
The story may mostly look from Marinette's point of view but Adrien is also a main protagonist too, and the earlier seasons looked at both Marinette and Adrien's points of view in equal measure but now just focuses more on Marinette alone.
I mean they cut him out of the finale of the Agreste arc and he's a key character of that arc.
So, Miraculous has great potential but it lost focus on where it's going.
Hopefully, with Lila's arc, they'll get back on track.
That reminds me of a certain show that fumbled the ending. Oh yes, Star vs. first 2 seasons where golden then it shifted its focus on shipping and most people pretend the last ones barely exist.
Not saying shipping can ruin a show (I’m a big fan of Shoujo anime), but if they aren’t married together and can’t elevate the characters and plot then we are left with a messy story.
So true completely what I wanted to say that why I loved miraculous MOVIE so much it was all about the two characters if they went with the movie situation and ending it would be way better
For the day i'll start writing a novel, remind me to be be very careful with the story. This is medical level of analyzing
@@Andovers848yeah it is true. I do it myself too and am really careful when I analyze it and make it a plot instead (some how😅)
I hope Astruc has a good think about it!
The only time I vividly remember the show being toxic was about the Chloe redemption arc and whatnot.
I mean, there was the time after Chamelon came out where the Salt fanfiction became more prominent. I don’t know if that counts but it was something that happened
Is Lily still hated?
@@ninab.4540I don't even know now.
@@ninab.4540 She's mostly forgotten by the writers. And when they remember she exist, they act like they didn't.
It's both sad... Yet amusing.
Imagine they STILL forgetting her WHILE she's meant to be the MAIN antagonist.
Yea@@ninab.4540
I feel another part of it is that the fans are more fans of the potential of the show rather than the show itself. I've seen it with other fandoms as well.
To me the start of the miraculous decay was at the non defeat of hawkmoth in heroes day. I was insanely hype to see them win until... poof ! Artificial story extension came out of nowhere. From this point, it switch from "they're about to win !" to "how long can they really extend the story" ?
💀
For real. Like they could have had the heroes defeat Gabriel and take back the butterfly miraculous. Then Adrien would probably have Natalie as guardian and be free. But not knowing Natalie is the next villain for two seasons with the peacock miraculous.
Heck, if they kept Chloé's redemption and introduced Zoé earlier like season three. Then we could have seen someone using the butterfly miraculous for good. Like with Hesperia.
@@joeljohansson3615 yessss ! The desperate hope to see Nooroo on the good sides is one of the reasons why i didn't stop watching yet.
I was hoping for Mayura to be the next villain untin further notice
согласен
To me heroes day had final episode and end of hawk moth vibes
@@user-hc1it3yr8bsame 💀
We have a show were the creator wrote a new episode ( Derision )to prove he was right and the fanbase was wrong. That even put his hate for Chloe in the REVERSE Universe where she is the villain, the bully that doomed Marinette in the Paris' Special
the same guy that a... Chat Noir in season 4 because fans wasn't happy about the stalking obsession of Marinette.
The problem is the creator's team with Astruc blocking fans in X didn't fixed the flaws that any kid's show had, they just use the new episodes to prove that they were right and who doesn't think like them is wrong and sexist just because they dont get how big the plot armor of Ladybug is, so big that she became a Mary Shue. Basically they broke their own show.
At this point, it seems like ZAG has a better grasp of what would make the show better and more satisfying to watch than Astruc does. While I do have some issues with it, the movie really did improve on the things that I didn't like about the show. The fact that most fans I've seen prefer the movie over the series shows that their doing something right.
Well it helps that the final battle and ending tie up stuff the show hasn't even tried to do yet. Looking forward to the second movie to see where that goes.
Just putting Adrien confronting Hawkmoth was enough for me.😢
The "Game of Thrones" comparison was SPOT ON (No pun intended)😂. I only recently watched the entire Game of Thrones show and was Livid at the way things ended. Spent 5 hours complaining, I KID YOU NOT!😂
I watched MLB because I got curious to see how it ended for the Love Birds and especially for que "Luke Skywalker X Darth Vader" moment between Adrien and Gabe... I wasn't as mad as with Game of Thrones, but I was MAD! 😂😂😂. Terrible finale, and crazy wasted potential on the Movie, too. Yikes!
This is very true, I feel like people are just watching the show for the memes, at this point
Well I watch it because I like it, but it's true that many people hate this show although they watch it, but everyone has their own opinion and it's fine
Also for the ships tbh lol if u look in the edits it’s never about the plot just ships 😂
It’s like watching and learning what not to do when writing a romance story.
Definitely for the memes. Also watching it for the closure. Starting watching when I was 9 or 10. I’m 18 now🥲
i watch it IN HOPES that the show will one day actually get better lol
Over the years I've seen so many fan projects launch based on this show and eventually crumble without meeting their goals, because many people have left the fandom after season 3 and during season 4. It feels like what remains of the fandom is just a shadow of what it was before, just like the show itself. I've never witnessed this kind of thing for any other show/film/game.
You mean like fanfics ?
@@Harumi27282 No, fan projects made by a large amount of people who each contribute a part to the whole thing. There were at least two video game projects and many zines, voice acting projects together with comic artists, animations and so many more. So many things were started but never finished because the show disappointed too many people in the fandom.
@@LunaRuna212 actually, there is this Scarlet lady comic that still continues and going to finish this year, not all of them are unfinish
@@Harumi27282 never said that nothing has been finished ever. But thanks for the recommendation
@@LunaRuna212 no welcome,glad to help, if u don't mind, im curious abt your thoughts of scarlet lady comic
Miraculous has, to me, felt like someone’s first creative writing project. You can see they had ideas of scenes, plot twists and interesting points in a character’s arc; but they don’t know how to lead up to those points or how to thread all these ideas together to tell a ongoing story instead of a set of connected one-shots.
I don’t know how much prior experience the whole team of Miraculous has but it does almost come off like they are punching above their weight; trying to work with a ambitious idea they had but there’s a lack of experience working to this scale that leads to the execution falling short
They could have drafted it up first, but well idk much bout that topic
I don't know about the rest of the crew, but Thomas Astruc (the creator of the original concept of MLB) has made several other cartoons before this, like Totally Spies.
The thing is, lost potential hurts more than something with no potential to begin with being mediocre or bad. The latter is just... the expected outcome. But when the show shows improvement and then backslides into some of the worst fuck ups the series has ever included, any potential introduced by that improvement is just.... gone.
Season 1-3... everyone just accepted that these are some neat concepts the fanfic writers and youtube animatics peeps would do better jobs with than the crew. But the series' actual team have shown they have the potential to keep up, they're just... not living up to it.
A good show with lots of potential due to the concept and characters
Going down the route of “wasted potential and how a lot of it could of changed if someone called that character out
CHALLENGE IMPOSSIBLE
TOTALLY AGREED WITH YOU! MIRACULOUS will kill.... Chloe arc,Luca kicked out, because he's known to much 😒 Adian knew.... NOTING,ADIAN Clone he knows.... NOTHING!!!😤😤😤
Rip Luca I cry my favorite character
Pretty much, the high highs of the show don't outweigh the unbearably low lows the show hits, and Season 3 proved that the writers were more than ready and willing to completely *write out* progress, which makes the low lows hit even worse. Like, by the Season 2 finale, Marinette had enough confidence to kiss Adrien on the cheek and ask him to wait for her to tell him what's on her mind - her crush on him - when she's ready, but then Season 3 just ups her creepy stalker tendencies up to 11 and every other season afterwards acts like Season 2 never happened.
In Season 2, Adrien had enough initiative to investigate his own home, where he found the Miracle Tome, which eventually ended up back in Fu's possession, then to Marinette. But afterwards? Adrien never bothers looking into what his dad may be doing. Instead, that motivation goes to Felix because he wants the Graham di Vanilly rings back, which turned into wanting the Peacock Miraculous.
Then there's most obviously Chloe's arc and the concept of having a core _TEAM_ of Miraculous heroes for Paris. Rena Rouge is the only one to make a comeback because Miracle Queen makes it impossible for that core team to come back and Season 4 goes on to write Nino as a hyper-insecure baby.
The writers made it abundantly clear that they're willing to cheat their own audience out of their own investment. If you don't "get" what their going for and down just take whatever they're throwing at you without giving much thought into how it fits within their own story, then of course you'd get worn out. Why even be invested? Why care about Marinette working up the nerve to ask Adrien out when the writers can backpedal and have Marinette jump back into her stalker ways? Why care about Adrien standing up to Gabe when his acts of rebellion either aren't taken seriously or they're just attributed to someone else?
The characters and story really deserved better than a repetitive storyline and characters who are more archetypes than fleshed out people.
Im in it for the long haul at this point. I stared watching this trainwreck when i was 9 or 10. I am now nearly a senior in highschool. As terrible as its getting I just...can't look away.
That's a universal statement that has indeed echoed throughout the fandom for the last 5 years.
*Astruc deserves to be kicked off this show for good and Zag put in charge of everything from here on in/here on out due to how good the movie was. I am currently waiting for season 4 to drop on Netflix.*
This show and it’s pacing is what ruined it for me. What happened in the course of 5 seasons should’ve been 3 or 4. It felt dragged out and I was just waiting for it to end.
This is 100% true I mean I have definitely criticised the show and pointed out it’s problems but I still love it even with it’s flaws. But some fans take it way too far to the point where you have to ask do they watch it because they enjoy it or do they just watch it to criticise every single aspect of it
This show is a perfect example of what NOT to do when writing a story
Does this show even have fans at this point I don’t see anybody talking about the show positively anymore
Well, I'm here. I genuinely like this show, but yeah, I feel like there are more people hating and complaining about this show than actual fans. It's kinda sad tbh, I will never understand all this hate. To me, this show is good, i enjoy the plot, the story,the characters. I feel like everyone is too negative, but everyone has different opinions, so it's ok. Yeah, by most people's standards, this show might not be that good, but for a simple girl like me, it's exciting and comforting.
@@pinkribbons12 i’m sorry but if you still like this show after all the bad writing and what the creator said to everybody, I’m sorry you and I cannot be friends stay away from me
💀 from even a literary point of you, this show is not good. It fails at consistency, character developement and has plot holes. Thats far from a good show, and no criticism isnt "negativity" @@pinkribbons12
@neerajoshi5473 Well, we don't need to be friends 🤷♀️ everyone has their opinion, I enjoy the show. It may not be the best and far from perfect, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it. Also, I don't have to hate the show because of it's creator, I'm judging his work, not him. Again, this is just me, I like the show, but everyone's opinion is valid and their own.
@sparkyblue7016 I understand that "from even a literary point of view, this show is not good." I understand that "it fails at consistency, character development, and has plot holes." But what does that have to do with me? I only stated my opinion, that I like the show even with its defects. Everyone has their own preferences and opinions, and it's alright. It won't change the fact that I still enjoy watching this show, though. You may not like it and consider it "far from a good show," and that's completely fine.
I was eliminated during the third season, in the finale, and the interesting thing is that I have been in the fandom since 2016 (Because that's when this series was broadcast in Poland), so after the finale of the first season, I waited two years (A Christmas episode was also released, interesting fact: It was supposed to last 40 -six minutes, but it was shortened and you can see what it looks like), so yes, I waited two years, I watched the second season with curiosity, the third one was ok until the finale and what they did with Chloe, then a red light went on in my head that something was wrong here (And you can see that I left in time)
I remember when my aunt, when I watched the first season, said that this series was weak, I would argue, but then I stopped myself and in retrospect she was right 🙃
Польша!😊
True....! the wasted potential makes us rage.... also doubtful decisions about what they do for the concept... Many story arcs that conclude to nothing and just they took toooo much time to conclude with the first villain (yikes many episodes wouldn't have existed and they would have make the show more watchable - less screentime for Marinette so others characters could be fleshed out) I could truly be a hater at this point 😂 really... but I like that the fandom make more enjoyable things with the concept ❤ I'm already too invested? And I still have slight hopes to see some growth for Chat Noir... He was my favorite and it really hurt me to see him relegated to nothing 💔 And he's the second main lead... Do him justice...!
Anyways I will stick around to pick the things I enjoy... But I'm already past my fan era for this show... Because I was truly disappointed, I needed something and the end so anticlimactic for Adrien.... It fumbled to pieces.
The new start for the show could potentially make it better... That's it... I'm back to hoping something good would happen and make it better but I don't want to hope too much so I won't talk trash about a show... There's good things for sure but some decisions make it hard to make it an overall enjoyable experience because it's not even to progress the story...
I agree 💯 with all your points.
I would only add that personally, I am constantly peeved by the lack of consequences for some characters simply because (I assume is) them being “a good guy”.
For example:
Nino sharing two secret identities to who he thinks is a civilian without even telling or giving a heads up to one of those who’s identity he just gave away. *Ever.*
Or Alya with the whole Lila situation.
Just fires my game up.
This show is the perfect example of how not to write a TV show and characters
I’m not sure how much of an outsider I am, but I left the fandom and the show a few years ago, basically after they got rid of Chloe and replaced her with some made up sister. I had been with the show since it had been introduced on Netflix, and I was done, that was my breaking point. I remember thinking about how they replaced everyone and they tried to make you fall in love with this new team they had built, but they didn’t do it properly, and we didn’t feel anything towards them. Not only that, but all the Thomas stuff made me mad, many people who clearly had well intentions comments were very hurt by him and I couldn’t take that. For a while, I pirated the shows, because I didn’t want to support Thomas anymore. Then I just got so sick of the show and how terrible Marinette is, and all her excuses, and how horribly they treat Adrian as a character that I just stopped altogether. The most recent thing I watched was the movie, and it was simply because Thomas wasn’t a part of it, which gave me some hope. I really really enjoyed it and I probably will continue to watch stuff by zag, but not by Thomas. I keep hearing from people who joined the fandom later and still feel this hope that I felt for so long, and I feel like some old grandma who sees young people making the same mistake she did. I just wonder how many people are similar to me, that only really check in on UA-cam videos, and have stopped watching altogether.
season 5 was such a slap on the face to me. like, the season 4 finale, in my opinion, was absolutely bangers, I hyped that SOOOO hard and it made me come back to my fanboy phase that I had retired from for years - it made my expectations so high for season 5
but then like, man I could count on my fingers how many actually good episodes season 5 had. the rest made me so tired and by the finale I was ultimately burnt out from this show. the finale did us so wrong that I couldn't begin to explain, like, Adrien excluded from the most important moment for him was truly unforgivable. I officially quit being a fan after that, I refused to watch season 6 (but I know damn well that I'll keep on watching bc I just GOT to see the reveal) and all because it felt like shattered dreams. like, I've been a fan since 2016 and as Smarty said, at the time S1 was released it was something magnificent, it was a great introduction and it left us feeling that something amazing was waiting for us in the future. the fandom grew like crazy and there was fanfiction everywhere, each one speculating the reveal and the finale, but the thing was that we kinda unconsciously agreed on an universal rule to the finale: that they'd reveal and then defeat hawk moth. (our dreams felt more like the Netflix film actually, which was why I cried so goddamn hard when I watched it) and I'm not saying that the creators own us for our expectations, I really like to have new concepts but honestly it was so bad. like so so bad it made me mad. mad for waiting 6 years for nothing. mad for being used and stalled for so long and I finally understood that I was on a dead end, that it would be like that until season 50 if necessary, as long as zag keeps making money, so they got to keep us watching.
all of those realizations left me feeling so betrayed and heartbroken. because even though I know well that that's how it's going to be, how it has been for a while, I can't just stop loving this show and its characters. I can't stop believing on its potential that it truly has, all things considered. I'm glad that artists exist and we can make fanfiction about it bc as of now it feels like the only way to save its missed potential. bc the canon is beyond irredeemable.
No other show has gotten the "So bad that the only fans are haters" rank
Its usually the "only bad because of the fans" rank or whatever high guardian spice fans were
(Edit 2 weeks later) ok i think we are called "rabbit hole viewers", we watch the show to see every single reason what its bad. And enjoy why its so bad
wait... High Guardian Spice had FANS??
@@NikoZguri it like saying you liked the sanest cartoon on adult swim (and they show xavier)
RWBY kinda has gotten this rank too
Riverdale
HGS has fans?
I think another biggest issue here, is the fact that Marinette is a Mary Sue. I disagreed at first but after a lot of people on UA-cam pointed stuffs out, I couldn't help but notice it. They glorify Marinette to the point that CAT NOIR of all people, the second main protagonist, being pushed aside, and make it as if it's a plot relevance even though it serves NOTHING to progress his OR Ladybug's character.
She has so many issues, so I don't think she is. However, the other character's treat her like she is perfect.
I wouldn't say Astruc is a bad writer, he's a bit too proud of his work but he does have good concepts. It's just that he isn't mature enough to push his personal demons out of his involvement with the show and it's fandom.
Hubris... That's what its called
@@Kakuyawolf3456 Thanks Captain Webster
After waiting for this over 8 years... Yeah, you get my point
The show could almost be forgiven for poor quality if the creator wasn't such a legitimately terrible person. I'll never forget his response to the (RESPECTFUL!) criticisms of the Miraculous NY comic where Marinette is scared of black guys and calls them looters when they are in the midst of saving lives, and their canon names are shit like 'gang blaster'. ESPEICIALLY since it was put out at a time where the right used 'looters' as a synonym for black people... ugh. Never consumed the show legally after that again, and i had both netflix and disney+ at the time.
It's the way they constantly fail at execution😭😭😭
They have good ideas but gosh do they fail at showing them, like I get leaving Adrien/Chat Noir out of season 5 finally as this can lead to a character development conflict, in which we see another side of Adrien but on the other side... This is Miraculous and we can't have nice things, and this conflict might not even happen by how incredible forgiving and open they make him, most of the time.
For the day of the heroes is still the best finale, it feels like they wanted to end the series there just to say in the last minute screw it ...
I wish they used it for a later season (not use you Ace at the beginning), like how awsome would it have been that all of the heroes have to fight against Hawk Morph and all his villaines (3 Episode finale) and an emotional clash between Adrian and his father (were he doesn't die and pay for his crimes in prission and Adrian is visiting him).
(Allso without the Centi Adrian part, don't liked that.)
One of the most frustrating aspects of this show for me, is that the show seems to keep forgetting plot points in canon that they’ve established. You’ve talked about this in other videos. Like when cat noir, renounces Plague because he’s feeling underappreciated by ladybug, even though he already did this in the New York special, and supposedly already learned not to do that .
The most frustrating time I think this happened for me was during the episode in season five where Marinette goes on an actual date with cat noir, and neither of them seem to recall how they have spent time together in the past. Particularly that they didn’t acknowledge the events from the season four episode when Marinette was talking about trying to confess her love for some boy, and the two of them went on a “not date”. It was just so frustrating to me that neither of them recounted past interactions with each other during that season five episode.
I guess what I’m saying is that there is “shit writing” and then there is also just plain old “dumb writing“. Dumb writing in some ways is worse than shit writing.
I remember when this show came out on tv. At first I didn’t care for it at all but then I sat down and watched it and suddenly I was hooked. I watched every episode upon release whether that be on tv or using websites to get them early because I was so excited. This lasted for a very long time and my 13 to 14 year old self looked past all the bad stuff the show offered. I’m now 20 and there are definitely things about the show that frustrate me to no end and I’ve thought about dropping the show for the longest time. Yet, when I hear news of a new episode or a season starting up it’s almost like an addictive drug and there I am watching it again. I want to see what happens with this show I used to obsess over and that’s why I continue to watch it and criticize it while also fangirling over the fanservice just like I had when I was younger. This show I swear managed to hook in a large group of people that are now just sticking it out to see the end of things and finally feel like it’s hold on them has been released, because man it’s been a journey 😅
Biggest problem with Miraculous is the creator himself. Guy can't take any criticism and goes off attacking anyone who says something he doesn't like. And tbh he gives off Dan Schneider vibes
He also gives off SSSniperwolf too
Miraculous Ladybug seems like a bad fanfic, while the fanfics seem like the official show
Well, (without watching the video) i can say, yeah true. It's because we know that the show had so much potential but they wasted it... It's frustrating me.
And we still keep hoping that maybe one day, the show will fix itself. We're in an endless cycle of "hoping the show will use it's potential wisely - getting disappointed - thinking of quiting the show - seeing a new glimpse of hope in the show" and then you turn back to hoping part and it goes forever like that.
But you know what, this time i'm done.
You are right no one hates it more than there fans it makes me so mad what they did to Adrian he is my favorite character and they did him so bad
The love interest for luka
Imagine if there was a third miraculous that was essentially the defender for the ladybug and cat miraculous, this miraculous is essentially the one who is there to be extra help to ensure that those two don’t Fuse
Now imagine that miraculous in canon, along side with ladybug and chat noir,
Now the holder? Well, it’s obvious the holder would have an impact on the show, calls out Marinette early on, so her creepy behaviour stops EARLY ON (basically, she goes from lowkey yandere to wanting Adrien to be generally happy in life) also could learn early on what the past year with Chloe was like
This holder would lowkey call out on gabe in the “bubbler episode” I mean, imagine the publicity for gabe celebrating Adrien’s birthday, throw in some “exclusive merch that’s only around for Adrien’s birthday” but no? For real?
Those are some examples on how this holder or HELL WHAT COULD OF HAPPENED IF SOMEONE DID SOMETHING “HELL ALIX COULD OF DONE THIS”
Tho, what would this miraculous be anyways? Swan? Makes sense right?
Personally because this is DEFINITELY not my oc
Polar bear, yeah that’s right, but swan makes more sense tbh
It’s giving my hero academia
On how simply, a lot of BS in both shows could of been prevented by simply SOMEONE calling a certain action/someone out on it
Rage and betrayal - Never heard a more accurate description of Miraculous
Miraculous is more like a Magical girl show than a superheroes show , giving its have more similarities with Precure than Marvel or DC , except for maybe Spider-Man
I still hope that Adrien gets some justice
Please Zag fix it!!!!
Its a endless world of spiritual guides on everyday life:
Of course it's based off events we wish everyday
This video actually helped define with how I felt with the show entirely to a T
I absolutely love Miraculous but God it is so bad sometimes esp season 5. I just want a Shadybug spin off show now
❤ I love all your videos by the way ❤
The one thing I hate and probably some fans might agree with me is that the episods are released NOT in order like back in season 4, correct me if Im wrong, where Psycomedian/Gabriel Agreste was released VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY late to the point where fans are already impatient because they dont know what happened to the other eps like how did it end up like this how did it end up like this...
We are passionately angry, because we passionately care! This is why SO many of the fan base, including myself, flocked to the fanfiction section of this show!
The show has a lot of potential & writing when done right. That’s why people be reading fanfiction writings for being creative & progressive with the love square even if it’s Felix. When he was originally the love interest too. For Thomas yeah he is a huge man baby when we want to tell him how to improve the show & gives us replies that make no sense. I don’t reply to his tweets but see what he says
The movie & hopefully the Paris special does show that they can go down the right path without Thomas.
You know a show is shit when fanfictions is BETTER than the actual show itself and even if their own fans hate it as well
Yeah the fandom can be pretty toxic at times
on the bright side, the series has a cool combination of Sailor Moon (romantic aspect), spiderman (action packed superhero aspect), and kim possible (witty writing aspect, at least for the most part, I suppose), although apparently it feels contrasting thanks to the creative clashes between Thomas Astrucc and Jeremy Zag, particularly on the Arc direction of Chloe that still had potential and for now waiting for the following season, while in the Movie it has the right elements for an enjoyable adaptation that really sets things right of how the franchise can go as an improvement, especially the potrayal of Chloe thanks to Zag's direction, no to mention that also has the cool element of a musical disney animated film
I think a reason why destroy and rebuild the universe (so more or less reboot it) was on the paper a good idea : Redoing what work but that time with the experience don't do the errors.
I'd like to see the formula change, because it's gotten stale. They keep trying to bring things back to basics, but honestly there's only so much you can do with that before it gets frustrating that no one knows anything and everything stays the same.
That’s basically accurate it really is just a toxic like and dislike relationship and as a viewer I just hope that season 6 is better after all the episode where Nino’s cousin his older version appears in the teenage timeline just makes me so curious even now .
True. If a show is consistent but have a certain theme, tone or flair to it i.e. childish, cringe or dark from the get go, it sets a standard and tells me what to expect from it. I believe if a writer manages to do that and write something unexpected and break the set standards, I consider that impressive and memorable. Such kind of writing also shows writer knew what they wanted to do with their story and that is way better than inconsistencies in a show.
Inconsistencies makes me drop any show since it destroys the characters, destroys the pacing, feels like I have been cheated because they promised one thing at the start and give another towards the end and make me keep wishing for more glaringly obvious story potentials that I can see but not the writer.
Even while watching this show i notice flaws and stuff and have my fwir share of complaints but despite that i still love the show regardless and I'll still watch it and the next seasons after.
In short: it's a love hate relationship with highs and lows
I’m waiting for you to finish the season 1 reviews. I’m excited to hear what you have to say about Origins!
I and my sister began to watch this show with mild interest to down right invested, we saw potential in season one and season 2 we thought it would have more promise to come but after season 3 and the way they did chole dirty, sure i never liked her but was hoping a girl this vapid and crude could perhaps have a change not drastically but noticibly, and also Luca same direction they went with his character just really felt bad how it went and left the show, even hesitant to watch the movie when it came out, watching it again even made it more vexing that the show obviously had potential
And this Is why, this is still gonna be #1 worst, RWBY already at #3 while both Star Vs. and Steven Universe's Future's Series Finale already dethroned long time ago ever since this series topped it all!
My hero academia isn’t nowhere to be seen?
@@staydetermined6717cartoons vs anime is different. For that anime it’s not my top 10 anime’s but it’s not a bad anime. It’s just the fandom within the show & all the shipping wars being too far
Miraculous Ladybug, RWBY, Voltron, High Guardian Spice and Star vs. the Forces of Evil are examples of how not to write a story.
@@JuniorGustabo Preciously my point!
I don't know why people fight so hard for this show. It has always been ridiculous from the start.
I've never encountered a fandom where hatred and disappointment was more of a requirement to join than actually enjoying the product. Then I saw "Miraculous Ladybug".
This kinda speaks to me, a certain Mainstream Battle-Shōnen series I used to love, has recently been such a monumental disappointment to me, that it caused me serious depression.
To help myself, I simply turned my back on it for good, never interacting with it ever again.
Then I discovered, that thinking up your own stories, characters, etc. is incredibly fun, and now I'm doing a little better.
I've given this show so, so much leeway and after that disaster of a finally in season 5, I just feel like the show kicked me in the gut and spit on my face. I was ready to throw in the towel after Miracle Queen but I decided to give the show the benefit of the doubt and the season 4 finally was a great shake up to the norm! Only for them to go right back to the norm in season 5... It just makes me wish that I had trusted my gut and dropped the show after season 3...
I agree. When something has potential, but it goes beyond falling short, to the point where it basically insults you for ever putting faith in it... it hurts. Sometimes, I rewatch movies I adored when I watched them a first time and whose fandoms I'm still sort of involved in and whose characters I still kinda' love, and I find myself... angrier than I had been before... because now I'm noticing more and more how they fall short of all this potential that they had. This series leaves me with a similar experience.
My golden rule is to judge something not solely on what it is, but what it is compared to what it could be, and that's why Miraculous is so hated I think. And I love the show all in all. I hate how things are handled, I will forever be on the side of Gabriel, with how he was characterized in the first few seasons and not how he went insane, could have been reasoned with enough to simply give up as a climax. And sure that's kinda what we got, but did we really? Like, the Gabriel that tries to force Adrien to be with Kagami is not the same Gabriel who in Gorizilla had ladybug captured but told Gorizilla to let her go so she could save Adrien.
The story had so much potential, with some pretty fun lore ideas. And now that Lila is going to be the main villain, all of that is gone considering she's the least interesting villain. I would actually prefer literally any other character getting the main antagonist spotlight. Literally. Mr. Ramier, Marinettes grandfather, the mime, they'd all be better than her.
I am not really involved in this fandom other than watching the show and watching your videos, I'm not on twitter/x so I haven't really experienced the toxic fandom much. So, I agree with you that the hate really comes from them making terrible story decisions. Axing Chloe's redemption arc, sidelining Luka and Felix, and leaving Adrien out of his own family's big story arc are all infuriating things that make me "hate" the show, even though I still love it. For them to draw out everything for so long only to give us these bogus and unfulfilling answers is super frustrating.
This fandom is the epitome of "nobody's allowed to bully this person but ME!"
I am a true super fan. I care not for the poor writing or how moments that could be better wasn't improved I still get past it and enjoy the good in the show even if it is really sensitive like the love situations in a whole.
I love the movie but the show....well I never want to go back to that train wreck.
Me too
One more thing is that giving everyone a miraculous was a bad idea they should’ve stopped at five if they really wanted to give more miraculous, they should’ve stopped at Luka, Sabrina and Kagami since these three are the ones that show up more frequently, they should have stopped at ate at max, but giving everyone a miraculous was a bad idea. Now we have 19 miraculous holders running around
yeah that's basically the problem, the show sets up this stakes and plants the seeds for something great that can come up later but then they just take the laziest route and the poorest execution that just leave you feeling like you waited all this time for nothing. The chloe redemption is a good example, there had been many episodes of build up to her realizing her mistakes and trying to correct them changing for the better, yes she did stumble a few times but it was a case of one step back two step forward, and then she just does a complete 180° and becomes even worse than she was pre-start of the redemption arc and we are somehow expected to believe that was natural progression? Yes, heroes can fall and all that but not out of fucking nowhere. That's like saying it would have been made sense for batman to start killing villains after 1 random kid dies because of one of the joker's plans, not one of his kids, not one of his friend's or someone important's kids, not even a kid he was fond of for whatever reason, just 1 random kid dies because of one of his enemies and now he is all okay with killing villains and killing them using guns nonetheless
As someone who has been in this fandom ever since the first episode, When I saw season 4, I just gave up on the fandom. I didn't even bother trying to watch season 5. This show was my entire childhood and if someone asks me if they should watch it, I would tell them to just watch the first 2 seasons. 3 at most. I feel so bad that the new generation has to deal with this crap instead of what it was way back in 2015...
im obsessed with the show, but here are some of my complaints:
- (marinette is my fav character) and i get they wanted to make her crush on adrien funny, but stalking is never the way to go. but i also don’t think we should continue to hold that against her as she has clearly developed from that.
- adrien needs more. one of the reasons i like Marinette over Adrien is because he is still lacking depth. We need more episodes just focusing on him instead of the fillers we receive.
- chloe should have left the show after season 2 if they were planning to keep her the mean girl. it’s get boring plus she literally is racist but no one ever addresses that.
- this fandom is just weird and play double standards when it comes to certain characters (for example I’ve seen people hate Marinette and Adrienette because of stalking but ship Feligami even this Felix stalked and kidnapped her as well).
- the love square was dragged out too long
- THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY THAT OUT OF ALL THE ADRIENETTE CONTENT WE HAVE GOTTEN, ADRIEN REALIZED HIS FEELINGS AFTER THE WAX STATUE SCENE! I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT AS AN ADRIENETTE STAN!
(I’ll add more complaints if I can think of some)
I would’ve been fine with the stalking, if it was treated like the flaw that is was. Then only time it gets called out as creepy is when Alix whispers it to Rose, only for her to gush about how “romantic” it is. 🤮it’s great that she eventually learns that it’s not okay and stops, but that development was completely OFFSCREEN and pretty convenient that she stops as soon as she gets her man. That wax scene is just cringe. I would have liked it if it was during Marinette’s birthday party (right after she kisses him) to be the moment Adrien starts to have feelings. At least that moment was actually really sweet and put more weight on them carrying each other’s good luck charms.
@@Angi3_6 correct me if im wrong but I believe she stops stalking in season 4 after she takes guardianship of the miraculous. also i liked to believe adrien has had feelings for marinette since the umbrella scene
And tikki lost all of her personality
@@josratubangura There is a difference between realizing something is not good and stopping it and just not brining it up. Either way, that development happened offscreen. The show bends over backwards to get Marinette involved in EVERYTHING (even when the focus should be on other characters), and yet never takes the time to really flesh her out, which is bad writing imo, especially for a title character. There are ideas tossed here and there but they don’t bother connecting the lines, unfortunately. I can see where you’re coming from with the umbrella scene, but personally I think that’s a bit too soon. I liked that it seemed one sided for a while. I liked that Adrien wasn’t involved with anyone at first since he’s just starting to actually get a fuller social life and friends not hand picked by his father at that point.
@@Angi3_6 ah okay, i can see where you are coming from. you believe that we shouldve seen marinette face the consequences on screen instead of brushing it over. i agree with you there. also i just want to take the time to say thank you. it’s so nice to have a civil discussion with someone about this show that doesn’t turn into insulting and putting others down. it’s rare to see that from the miraculous fandoms these days as it feels like everyone are on opposite sides.
If there is one way to bring the characters back that have been thrown off the show e.g. Luka, Chloe etc...
they need to come back because if the writers can find a way to make Chloe back to her nice self or make her even more spoilt there could be a chance that Chole and Lila team up using the Butterfly miraculous as we know Lila some how has the Butterfly miraculous, so then Marinette unawhere of Lilas return as someone else could get a way to get the Ladybug and Black cat then maybe giving the Ladybug and Black Cat miraculous to Chloe? That would be something I would like to see as long as Astro doesn't ruin that moment making everyone hate it as we want to enjoy the entire episode and then the whole series. What do you think Smarty Pants?
the finale was such a waste and destroyed story arcs that had been built for years. I think that was one of the most horrible parts in the fanbases history/
This show ruined my life. Can’t wait for the next season
Chloé’s thrown redemption arc will always upset me. The show had so much potential :((
If the redemption arc consisted as the selfish girl get all she wants because she has a a sad life and don't even had to appologise to those she bullied for years then I'm glad it got cancelled
@@eleonorepb4565 that’s the thing about redemption arcs. The character gets better.
With Chloé, she would have gotten better at being everything her mother wasn’t and eventually she would apologize to those she bullied.
Chloe deserves to be part of a better series like Arcane, Infinity Train, The Midnight Gospel, Mob Psycho 100 or BoJack Horseman.
I hate Chloe.
@@eleonorepb4565you see that’s why I still hate her.
I completely agree with you, except about Chloe. It makes sense for her to flip flop between good and bad, since she's generally a bad person but wants to be good and looks up to Ladybug. She also had very good reasons to be Queen Bee and to continue using the bee Miraculous even after she proved she didn't deserve it. Marinette/Ladybug knows that Chloe knows good from bad and that she wants to stop Hawkmoth, also that she's honestly just good at being a super hero. That's why she's one of my favorite characters, weather she's good or bad, she always has a good reason for what she does. Also Zoe is a much worse holder of the bee miraculous in nearly every way possible.
More or less, yea. The show had heaps of potential, but the big stuff they keep teasing fans with ends up being so horribly executed! Years of investment for mediocre to absolute shit pay off.
Adrien falling for Marinette? Oh, never happened during any of their previous bonding, getting comfortable around her and her family, never taking an interest in her unless he's CN, but then doesn't seem to remember how cool she is with CN, only wanting to know if she thought his alter ego was cool. No, he fell for her bc she unknowingly violated his personal space and kissed him while he pretended to be a statue and then broke her heart on the car ride home without realizing it. 🙃
Adrien: the entirety of his family/origin drama being set up from day one only for him to NEVER have to face it bc all his baggage is forced on Marinette to handle while he stays ignorant about what he is and who his father was.
Also, just Adrien in general. Needed more of the sassy kid more willing to call out Chloe than the sad pile of oatmeal he ended up being when he wasn't trying to force his feelings on LB OR threatening/renouncing his miraculous due to a miserably timed temper tantrum.
Because the show seems intent on making him 'perfect in an imperfect world', he becomes a shallow plot device, basically no better than the role female characters were forced into up until about a couple of shows from the 90s.
Any hope we briefly had of Fu giving Adrien more mentorship and responsibilities fizzled out into nothing, and he never seeks to be proactive about any of the miraculous duties despite knowing guardianship was heaped onto LB as a last desperate attempt to save the box.
The guardians all sucked, Lila was such a non-entity for huge parts of the series, Chloe was reduced to being a caricature villain beyond the show's own logic and multiple characters were inexplicably "redeemed" without any real substance to earn it (Andre, Alec, Sabrina, GABE...) meanwhile, teenage girls are evil incarnate? When Lila has plot tumor baked into her just to make half her shitty schemes work.
The show is always gonna get bagged on as much as the writers produce content that derides the intelligence of any of their audience. You can't claim to be deep and original while deflecting with 'it's a kids show!' when the plot holes are highlighted. The reason people keep watching is likely just to see how far this train wreck is going to go. Well, that and so there's some reference for the fanworks that come out to 'fix' the canon
a reset for season six is not letting Astcuc messing with the story that would put his fictional daughter in a imperfect position
man, that guy is a creep...
I’m not sure if you do “what if’s”, but can you do a video discussing what if Chloe stayed good?
I really liked Miraculous because I saw its potential. I really liked the concepts and ideas it had at the beginning. Plus, I really like Cat Noir and could see the potential of how cool his story arc could be. The show, on paper, sounded really good. But the longer the show went on, the more it wasted its potential. Episode after episode it kept getting worse. By the time the show started getting better, it was too late. At that point I was no longer watching the show because I liked it, I was now watching the show because I wanted to see how the train wreck would escalate. The show had become a train wreck that I couldn't advert my eyes from because it miraculously kept going despite running out of wheels and tracks ages ago.
The truth is that the fans want to see the show improve, while not really acknowledging that they know damn well that it'll never improve because of Thomas Astruc's overt arrogance, and inability to tolerate constructive criticism of any kind. Plus, it's kinda just a self-insert fic if we're being honest.
IMO Cyrus is a great example of someone watching the show, just to hate on it.