The Enterprise Bridge Mystery: why do they draw it at an angle?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 чер 2022
- The original starship Enterprise of Star Trek is iconic, and so is its bridge, the command centre of the ship. It is recreated here using Blender. But, why are deck plans of this bridge drawn at a curious angle online?
#culture #StarTrek #StarshipEnterprise #Blender #stage - Фільми й анімація
This video seems to be rather popular. Thank you all who have watched it! Trust me - in bad times, such things are greatly appreciated.
I think the answer to why your video is so popular is it's so well done!
Also, people want a good Star Trek series again, imho. 😁
Congratulations on winning the “UA-cam recommendation system plucks a random video from obscurity” lottery! I really enjoyed this little bit of trivia.
Excellent work
@@cm24624 how is Strange New Worlds? I've not seen it yet but the last I heard the first few episodes were going down very well with well heeled fans?
@@misterwtf7380 I'm an OG fan (watched all but the original Pike pilot) first run. IMHO, it's pretty good. The writers have tried to stay true to the heart and soul of the original while bringing the series into the 21st century. They even wrote one particularly campy episode but then, that too is OG Star Trek, is it not? 😆
They still need to iron out some bugs as although most episodes are great, like the original, a couple are "meh". All in all though I'd give it a 7.5 out of 10. Just my two cents.
Since they use a viewscreen and not actual windows, I always wondered why the bridge just wasn't buried in the middle of the ship where it would be protected.
Would seem best by engineering, since they often need to go there to work out a problem.
Because all Starfleet ships are designed after the US navy ships, where the bridge is always top-front.
Why not just put it on a completely different ship, or on a space station?
Almost every sci-fi space ship has this issue as Antonis pointed out. Most designers use so called wet-navy ship designs as a template for space ship construction, and this even carries over into the language used in the setting- ships are organized into fleets, high ranking sci-fi naval officers are admirals, etc... All based on modern naval terms and organizations. Very few scifi shows deviate from this design idea as it's what most people are used to seeing. Off the top of my the only series that I can think of that avoid this are The Expanse and the anime Legend of the Galactic Heroes.
I ahve to agree with the similar reply above; it is because all Starfleet ships are designed after the US navy ships, where the bridge is always top-front.
I certainly understand how it’s aesthetically pleasing to have the bridge at the very top of the starship, but it always struck me as odd, because this central control area is so exposed and therefore extremely vulnerable to attack. Of course, they have an auxiliary control area somewhere in the belly of the ship. Nevertheless if an attacker took out the bridge, which of course they would due to its physical prominence, the ship would be in serious trouble. I love Star Trek, so this comment is for chit chat alone. I grew up in the 60s loving this show from the very start.
The weapons in star trek are so powerful, that it really does not matter where any given system is located. If the ship gets hit by a phaser or photon torpedo with shields fully down, the ship should be vaporized instantly.
It is also of note, that the bridge and captain's quarters are usually a detachable lifeboat. It makes sense to have it on the outside of the ship.
@@KohuGaly no it's not just to do with enemy fire. Any problem with shields and you've got space debris, asteroids, meteors- even atmospheric issues if the ship starts to fall into the gravitational field of a large body. You just want the command center of the ship to be the safest place unless there's a good reason like eschewing scanners for observation windows
They are supposed to be more armored around that area. They demonstrated how bad of an idea this was in star trek enterprise in the episode twilight. In and alternate timeline when the Xindi are trying to wipe out the remainder of humanity the bridge was targeted and destroyed resulting in the occupants being sucked out into space
That's true, although the Enterprise is meant to be a ship of exploration rather than a warship. Yet that bridge is an awfully tempting target. Looks good, though.
Think of Star Trek shields like a bullet proof vest. If the shields are down/no bullet proof vest, then it doesn't matter where you get shot, the bullet is going in, it's just a matter of it hitting a major organ or not.
Wasting firepower trying to hit the bridge won't do much as the ships systems are powered (and can be controlled by/in) engineering. Trying to take out a ship's warp core or antimatter pods is the way to neutralise it if you want it to explode.
However, before Starships had shields, or when the shields were down, taking out the bridge on was an effective way of disabling a ship temporarily while the remaining crew continued to operate it from engineering. It's a waste of firepower if your intention is to destroy the ship. Also, if the ship's shields are down, then an enemy can just beam a bomb or torpedo into the ship whoever they like so it matters not where the bridge is.
ua-cam.com/video/z7LnJPlRrBA/v-deo.html
Additionally, the entire bridge modules are removable and replicable at major starbases and shipyards. That would be impossible if it were buried somewhere within the ship.
Half a century on since she entered our imaginations, and we'll still happily debate even the most trivial aspects. That has to be what it means to leave a legacy.
It's such a beautiful and unusual design. I still feel it's the best one
How do you think Shakespeare and Dickens feel
It's kinda trivial indeed which direction the captain's chair has as they look at a screen anyway instead out of a window and with the Enterprise's insane acceleration speed they need pretty good dampers for the crew to not become squishy goo at any moment in the show, regardless if they turn or speed up 🙂
The bridge does actually face forward (not at an angle), as evidenced not only by the opening shot in 'The Cage', but also whenever the ship cast reacted to the ship being struck on the bow - they all fell towards the viewscreen, not to front right.
Franz Joseph wanted to find a way to explain the mysterious protusion aft of the bridge dome, so used it for the turbolift in the now non-canon Starfleet Technical Manual. In subsequent technical views of the ship, the deck heights have been reduced slightly, so the turboshaft now fits in the raised section, and the bridge correctly faces forwards. The protusion is now seen as an external power connection point for whenever the ship is in drydock and internal power is shut down.
We’ll said
Yes, it does face forward, but many who draw the bridge plans turn the bridge to one side. This video explains why.
Finally! Someone who understands that. But it's an urban-legend now that the bridge is wonky and like "flat-earth" people believe it
Actually, in the original opening shot of The Cage, while granted, the turbo elevator door does not align with the exterior turboshaft housing, NEITHER does the bridge align with the centerline of the ship. Personally, I always interpreted this scene as a matter of artistic license anyway to show the location of the bridge, given that in all other scenes the upper sensor dome is illuminated.
In any case, with the “first pilot” version of the Enterprise, which admittedly MIGHT be able to accommodate an offset turbolift due to the taller bridge dome. This is admittedly still doubtful, however, because of the curvature of the dome, even if it is a less drastic arc than the production version of the Enterprise.
However, if we’re talking about the production version with the lower bridge dome, that’s an entirely different matter. If you’re looking at the Enterprise as a “real-world” object, there is only ONE WAY the bridge will potentially fit in the dome of a 947 ft. Enterprise (of the production version, at least), and that’s by offsetting it. This is a better alternative, in my opinion, than pretending the turbolift is a TARDIS and can fit somewhere that in reality, it physically cannot. There’s absolutely no reason (other than so-called “weirdness”) why the bridge CAN’T be offset. On the other hand, it’s IMPOSSIBLE for it to fit within the bridge dome facing forward. Hence the reason we see schematics of an offset bridge in many instances. 🖖🏻
@@Gerry1of1 It's not fair to call it an "urban legend" when officially produced works literally describe it and diagram is as such. It's in original sketches, the Technical Manual, and even Gene Roddenberry's "Making of Star Trek". Technically, I've not even seen an actual retcon that stated otherwise.
This discrepancy was noticed by Gene Roddenbery, when someone pointed out that a single turbolift to the bridge would be a disaster for the bridge crew, if anything were to happen to it. So in the animated series, there's a second turbolift stage right, which would correct the angle in line with the exterior nodule. Ever since, in the films and subsequent spin off series, there is a pair of turbolifts that line up either side of the command chair.
If I remember correctly, the Franz Joseph plans showed a "gangway" accessed through a door in the angled wall to the right of the turbolift with a set of narrow steps leading to Deck 2 and beyond. I think there may have even been a restroom, but of course that was never shown.
You're incorrect, there's only one turbolift on the animated bridge.
@@B-and-O-Operator-FairmontI have the first edition, and it shows an access to a circlular service-way around the backs of the duty stations, which none of us, really paid attention to, because short-circuits, always showered sparks downward.
@@boradisthere are two turbolifts on the animated bridge. In the panning shot from behind, immediately to the left of the viewscreen is the extra turbolift door. This wide angle shot it used many times in the series. The second door is seen in the exact place the live action series has it. A second panning shot, show the original door, and the edge of the alcove for the second door. Its odd, but its there.😊
They can remove floor plates and either jump or climb down a ladder.
I'm reminded of that line from the Simpsons - "whenever you notice something like that, a wizard did it!" Even with Trekkies being as obsessed with the exact layout of every last class of ship as we are, it's still healthy to remember that these discrepancies ultimately exist because these are TV shows being filmed on a relatively small budget (doubly so for TOS). Personally I'm willing to just slightly tweak proportions or add a little extra bump on the hull and say the reason you never noticed it is because the quality of 1960s TV equipment wasn't that great.
_But what about-_
_"Wizard!"_
_Oh for crying out glaven.._
"GNDN"
@@Sgt_GloryOh God, sarge! Now I'm distracted by your abbreviation of a term, but it Reminds me of Grundoon , in the comic 'Pogo' where he had his OWN 'Groundhog chile' language, like Bnxipt, & Gnertle. Lol.
Beaming was also mainly introduced, because fade-effects are cheaper than a shuttle-prop.
Repeat to yourself “It’s just a show, I should really just relax.”
Simple reason, the sets were built before the final filming model was completed. Both had different layouts that were never reconciled
BINGO!
Not true
In Ticonderoga in upstate New York, USA, a fan has re-created all of the major Enterprise sets from the original Star Trek series. It is well worth the trip. If you are in the Lake Champlain, Lake George, or Lake Placid area, visit the museum. It is about $40 for a 1 hour guided tour (there is a lot of upkeep for it) but the detail and reproductions are amazing. You visit the Bridge last... photo opportunities all along the way. I loved it. There were no bathroom sets in the series, so he didn't make a bathroom set for the museum. Main Hallway, Transporter Room, Infirmary, Sick Bay, Medical Lab, The Access (Jefferies) Tubes, The Ladder, Engineering, Spock's and Kirk's Cabins, Conference Room, and The Bridge. The history and the backstorys are great.
Is that where they filmed that one UA-cam fan series?
@@rikk319 I am not sure.
@@rikk319 Star Trek: Phase II (originally called Star Trek: New Voyages) was filmed there.
There is (or was) , supposed to be a "Star Trek Experience" in Vegas, at one time, I don't know, if it still exists, but it's PROBABLY, more expensive to visit !
They're called Jeffries tubes. lol.
It actually does make sense - The bridge is designed to be replaced during refits, and we see a significantly different bridge in Pike's time, so the odds are good that the original bridge was removed and a new one put in its place, and for whatever reason (possibly security, as there is a blind-spot where the captain can't see who exits the turbolift when it is directly aft), it was necessary to place the turbolift to the left of The Captain, and instead of completely redesigning the turbolifts of the ship, the logical course of action was just to rotate the bridge slightly. It's not like it matters which way they are facing anyway, since you would never know the difference if you were actually on the bridge.
Yeah I can imagine since you're using a viewer and not a window, and you have inertial dampeners, there's no absolute necessity to be facing directly forwards. Efficiency of layout is more important.
The blind spot theory makes some sense.
Scotty would feel the difference. It would introduce problems with the navigation console and the (Navigator). Further they would know intellectually they are traveling not forward but at an angle
I personally hate having doors right behind me and always be anxious about someone possibly startling me. Since there's inertial dampeners and view screens, it doesn't matter what's facing where. Those dampeners might even have some gyroscopic precession going on so that when they're being overloaded by external forces, the vessel reacts at an angle. On the simplest gyros (a spinning top) that angle is 90 degrees but surely starfleet has something better and just one out of 3 (= double redundant like most thing in aerospace today) dampener gets overloaded which would explain 33° off axis.
In the first movie she ship gets overhauled and refitted and the bridge gets a second turbolift, but the general layout of the room stays the same. If that bulb behind it would be the lift, where does the second one sit? there is no second protrusion.
This is incorrect. The bump behind the bridge on the exterior model is indeed the top of the turboshaft, but that's not where the bridge doors are located.
Ever wondered why the bridge crew can just walk into a turbo lift, but elsewhere on the ship they sometimes have to press a button and wait for a lift to arrive? This is intentional.
Turbolifts don't just travel up and down, they also travel side to side. The doors on the bridge aren't at the top of the turboshaft, they reach the top and then move horizontally to where the doors are. This ensures there's always a lift ready for the bridge crew when they want to exit the bridge. When someone comes from elsewhere in the ship the spare turbo moves horizontally out of the way for the incoming turbo. Once the crew leave the turbo on the bridge it goes back down into the ship's turbo network and the spare turbo moves back to the bridge doors. That bump on the exterior model at the back of the bridge is indeed the top of the turbo shaft, but the lift then moves horizontally to the doors.
The TNG tech manual had the same for the Enterprise D bridge. They have one spare turbo on the forward turboshaft, one spare on the rear turboshaft, and they have a 3rd dedicated turbo which goes from the bridge directly to the "battle" bridge in the secondary hull. That turbo is bigger than the rest so as to fit the entire bridge crew in. So the Enterprise D has three turbo lift doors on the bridge with a capacity of 5 lifts spread between those three sets of doors.
It also mentions that when a ship is docked at a starbase, the docking connection umbilical allows for turbolifts to leave the ship entirely and enter the starbase's turbo network and vice versa, which is pretty cool if you don't want to do it on foot through the docking ports.
Exactly, there's even been a few cases (mainly TNG if I'm remembering right off the top of my head) where we see displays in the turblolifts of the car moving along the tracks going both vertically and horizontally.
Sounds about right, I remember a scene from a episode ( first season?) where some people left the bridge and Kirk had to wait a few seconds for the lift to open.
First, the lift was placed off to the right as we look at Kirk's chair because the production crew did not want guest stars entering the bridge behind Kirk. They wanted Shanter and the guest stars in the same spot. Second, I built the bridge in scale with Playmates action figures and found that the turbo lift could actually move around the rear of the bridge and then into the slot behind the bridge.
That is literally just what the guy said in stage speak.
It's simpler than that, the shot that they used followed the rule of thirds for framing a shot it puts all the rear stations intersecting the upper third horizontal, Helm and Ops the Lower third Horizontal, Kirk at the intersection of the upper third horizontal and the left vertical thrid it also tees up the turbolift in the upper horizontal third... before the days where people could pride them selves on steady cam work, before elaborate moving shots could be done with one guy and a rig, (Remember this was back in the days when it would take more than one person to operate a camera, whether you needed a person to opporate a boom the camera was on pull focus I know focus pulling was a little out dated at that point). TV series had to make things compelling this bridge orientation, is what a DP in the 60's would come up with as a compelling framing for the format of television of the day.
Chris: exactly! It was put there simply for filming angles & stuff!
It's more or less assumed that the bridge faces directly foward! "The Making of Star Trek" has illustrations of the interior sets, including the bridge. That's when it was revealed that the life door was to the left when facing aft. So when those 1976 Blueprints were published, they showed the bridge facing 33° to Port!
I still want an in scale bridge for my Mego ST figures.
@@kgaden Pulling focus isn’t outdated to my understanding. Whether manually or by remote, I believe the 1st or 2nd camera does it.
It's tough to reconcile our massive desire to consider Star Trek real, with little things like this created for drama and filming. So much fun!
Thank you for presenting this curiosity while simultaneously considering lore as well as the practicalities of film production.
Very level-headed.
It’s worth noting that the Star Trek Motion picture fixed this issue by adding a second turbo lift as a mirror image of the first about the bridge centerline.
Does the exterior model have two "pods" at the back of the bridge exterior protrusion to reflect this?
@@misterwtf7380 Kind of. Instead of pods on the exterior like the TOS Enterprise, the Refit Movie Enterprise has a larger protrusion that the two turbolifts fit in instead of individual pods.
@@VegetaLF7 just goes to confirm that that REALLY is the turbo lift at the back, huh?
The Phase II Enterprise refit, designed by Jefferies, had two "pods"; it was further refined for TMP version.
There is no question that the feature behind the dome on the miniature was *intended* to correspond to the turbo lift. It's not clear whether the arrangement of the stations was intended to be such that the lift be directly behind the captain's chair or, if so, when that was changed. In the series bridge, all stations were movable (to accommodate camera positioning). But in the original Cage version, only some stations were. So it seems the set was probably never built with the lift directly behind the captain's chair. (Presentation will win out over technical accuracy in any drama.)
The bridge isn't oriented crooked, it's the doors to the turbolift that are off-center. Probably because the turboshaft has to accommodate other decks beneath deck 1, and since corridors run the circumference of the saucer, the turboshaft would have to be placed so that it links up with corridors below. Having the turbolift directly at the rear of the bridge would probably mean the shaft would share the same vertical space as the corridor.
The head canon that ive held to for yrs to explain the issues with ToS, technical, acting, and continuity-wise...is that these original episodes are actually stage plays produced in universe meant to recreate the original crews' adventures in space for citizens back on Earth.
This takes care of the cheesy effects and sets, as well as the stage top look and nature of the show.
Taken this way, things like the turbolift placement become inconsequential
That's a- really- eccentric ret con... and isn't it contradicted by the time travelling episode of Deep Space 9 when the main cast of that show end up "rosencrantz and guildenstein"-ing it throughout the classic "trouble with tribbles" episode?
@@misterwtf7380 depending on how you want to approach an explanation for that, not necessarily. Even so, iMO it solves more continuity issues than it creates. shrug
@@razorfett147 it's quite extreme. But I get where you're coming from. There is no truly satisfactory way to marry the aesthetic of the orginal series with "later" iterations of the show (even when, ironically, they are set BEFORE the orginal series!)
Whatever makes you happy, man. I PERSONALLY think that the orginal series is BASE ONE and everything else should fit around THAT, but I understand the arguments against that. It's visibly dated and in some crucial areas doesn't tally with things we think are locked- like the uniform FEDERATION BADGE is NOT such in the orginal series- every ship and base have their own badge. Extraordinary that they didn't forecast how iconic that design would become and think that it being universal made more sense.
@@misterwtf7380 yea, theres definitely no satisfactory fix for it, nor was i promoting my own head canon as the perfect solution. Its just my own internalized way of reconciling the issue 🤷🏻♂️
(Chuckling) I can't argue with that!!! 😅😅
In the eyes of the producers of TOS, the bridge faced directly forward. How the turbolift operated behind the walls wasn't their concern, they're trying to tell a story here, not make a NASA documentary.
As for the feature on the outside in the hull, it should be noted that no contemporaneous source identifies it as the turboshaft housing; that association doesn't happen until 1975 and Franz Joseph. Additionally, the only time we're given any real distinct indicator of where the bridge is located in the opening moments of "The Cage", when the model sported a much larger dome. My thoughts are that they lowered the dome inside the superstructure, for safety reasons, meaning the bridge still faces forward at the bottom of the dome, it's just that the bottom of that dome is lower than generally assumed.
Exactly! Star Trek is about telling stories, not about looking for trivial discrepancies in the engineering of a totally fictional starship.
In other words, IT'S JUST A TV SHOW!
No one is saying that they're trying to make a NASA documentary. This, and other arguments like "It's just a TV show" aren't saying anything. Everyone is already aware it's a show and not some documentary. That isn't the point and has nothing to do with the point.
@@mechanomics2649 Of course it does. People take this WAY too seriously and I have at time also. But, in the end, it really is a show created to entertain.
The USS Masada from the Star Trek 25th Anniversary DOS game had a rear centered turbo lift door. Actually looks pretty good. That's NCC-293391 if any nerds are looking for sauce
Having the captain’s chair at an angle is more dynamic than having the view straight on. This perspective allowed a dynamic few of the captain when in the chair as well as a view of the entrance.
After all, we are looking at a television set.
Excellent! As a kid I remember viewing the original Enterprise blueprints and seeing the 36 deg offset of the bridge which I thought was really cool! Although I didn't know "why", I had thought it was for some important sci-fi engineering reason... It never dawned on me it just made for better filming! Incidentally, I later learned the "in-universe" reasons for the offset were 1) In the event of an emergency evacuation of the bridge, there was better 'balance' between the # of personnel headed for each turbolift door... the regular door we see on camera and the emergency turbolift off screen. 2) By placing the turbolift doors so they were not directly behind the Captain's chair, the captain can more easily see who's entering the bridge and not be 'surprised' by an attacker who's managed to enter the bridge and 3) It places the communication station directly opposite the main view screen so the comm officer can more easily monitor visual communications. Yes, my wife thinks I'm a total nerd! LOL
There are several good in-universe design reasons for having the door where it is.
If the captain is interested in the person coming through the door, he can easily turn to interact with them, but if he isn't interested (there are many routine comings and goings that don't require his attention), then he won't be distracted.
Keeping the lift to the rear also means that whoever is getting off the lift (say, a senior officer or VIP called to the bridge in an emergency) can see the main screen and all the crew right away, and it also means that anyone can easily get from the lift to any station without walking in front of the screen.
All good points!
I always felt it was a weird design choice in TNG to put the lifts behind the command pit - too many times Picard and crew were caught by surprise by someone quietly entering the bridge behind them during a tense situation. I mean, I get that it looked better on camera, but it would have made more sense to put the ready room next to the main conference room with a connecting door so the captain doesn't have to cross the bridge every time and then make the fore starboard door the turbolift. Or ... the frikkin' bathroom!
@@Dargonhuman I believe there are two additional turbo lifts on either side of the main viewer in front. I only recall seeing them used in a couple episodes, though (Encounter at Farpoint, Yesterday's Enterprise).
@@Raja1938 The forward portside door goes to the ready room, the forward starboard door is the emergency lift to the battle bridge.
@@Dargonhuman Probably right about the forward starboard door. However, the forward portside door I'm referring to is next to the ready room door. In Yesterday's Enterprise, Yar & Data enter it immediately after the ready room meeting where Picard informs the senior staff of his plan to return Enterprise-C to the past.
One interesting thing about the 11-foot long model used for the ship: The port side was never seen on camera... only the starboard side due to all the wiring used to light the ship needed to be hidden on the port side. Adam Savage got to see the original model at the Smithsonian, so I recommend watching that video... very fascinating details about the original model.
I heard they put it like that in the show so Kirk can be in the shot and see who's coming off the elevator they didn't want people coming in behind the captain 🤔
Agreed. It is for camera placement.
that is what he just said
@@Redridge07 I do believe he is speaking of it in dramatic terms. I am speaking of it in technical terms. Example: What is behind camera would be a series of "wild walls", meaning, only about 50% of the set is assembled. The other walls behind camera would only be put in if camera needs to turn in that direction, or pan.
3:37 Looking at this reminds me of the fact that for a 1960's show, the bridge set actually looked pretty good. Nice CGI image of the bridge, did you do the graphics yourself? I think it looks great!
It's a remarkable design. I was disapointed that both the first run of movies and especially the Abram's reboot didn't honour this orginal iconic outlay as well. It's not like they ever improved on it, though somehow ST:tmp (criminally underrated imo) at least FELT classy with its two lifts and slightly larger bridge lending it a more "executive" feel. The orginal bridge is one of the most memorable pieces of TV set design of all time, from its use of color to the placement of personel for dramatic utility, to its awareness of how space would work effectively as a "TV Stage". But it IS quite cramped for such a HUGE ship. The first movie gently and quite gracefully addressed this. But nothing will ever beat the peerless set design "for camera" of that orginal set. Every version that tries to augment it fails to improve on it. It's so perfect.
@@misterwtf7380 Agreed on all points.
Thank you. Yes, I did recreate it myself.
@@WeTravelbyNight Well, I think it's fantastic.
Looked like a photograph of the 1/350 scale Polar Lights model kit.
These things got retconned in the 70s, mostly with the after series "Technical Manual" and AMT rereleases.
That's where you also got "Constitution Class" which was not the case in the show. It was "Starship Class". Says it in on screen in almost every episode and they said it several times in scripts.
Easy to explain. The bridge sits facing forward, as it should. The turboshaft is off center but it’s STILL within the domed bridge walls - you cannot see it externally. The shaft that appears behind the bridge is a “service trunk” with cables, harness, supples etc and an emergency escape ladder to lower decks. There, fixed it.
At the time, producers didn't realize that they were making a cult classic and took certain license for dramatic effect. The same is true for Irwin Allen's Jupiter 2 and Seaview
Excellent point. Sound tapes were thrown in a Dumpster. Props were trashed. They were just doing their latest in a long line of temporary jobs, the nature of TV.
In the TOS show, everytime weapons fired (phasers & torpedoes), they are depicted firing from the ventral (underside) side, not dorsal (top). So the angling the ship to enable the best field of fire would usually have the whole saucer as a literal round shield to incoming return fire. Thus the bridge & engineering would be better protected in engagements where surprise isn't much of an issue. In almost all depictions of the ship approaching a potential threat, the ship approaches from above.
The whole design is wrong. The ships are massive targets when viewed from above or below. _Star Wars_ makes the same mistake. They forget that space has three dimensions, not two, and that ships can approach each other from any angle, not all somehow lined up in one plane.
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 Seems the designers made the same mistake that Kahn made.
How can a 1960's fictional vessel be designed wrong?! ... Trek keyboard warriors be like ... 🤦🏻♂️
FYI: 'Upstage' is when you are close to the camera and/or in theater, when you are close to the audience. 'Downstage' is in the back. Hence the term, 'I got upstaged by Shatner ...'
I'm a director. I've been in the business of show for 50 years now. I think I should know what is what by now.
Live long and don't get in the Hero's Key Light.
D.A.
Follow up to my earlier comment. Mr Trek is building a 1:25 scale model of the NCC 1701. When complete it will be 40' long! The mock-ups of the interiors are extremely illuminating. Many of the issues you've pointed out he seems to have resolved. Something I didn't realize was that there is a whole access ring/corridor around the outside of the bridge that we see in TOS. This makes a lot sense and pretty much addresses all the points regarding orientation, and even gives a toilet and secondary exit from the bridge that would be essential, but politely omitted from the show.
Yes, I've heard about this giant model. It will be great when it's complete. As for the ring corridor, its presence would solve the turbolift issue.
The main viewscreen in TOS isn't a window, it's just the biggest monitor screen there. You could even have it facing the stern, but it could still provide a forward view and wouldn't prevent Sulu and Chekov from flying the ship straight. Having the bridge at a 36y-degree angle could be disorienting at first, but Kirk and the rest probably quickly get used to it after awhile.
Nobody said it was a window
@@Zulgurub Exactly. Which means its placement to the ship's centerline is really irrelevant. The ship will still fly whatever course is entered into the helm.
I t wouldn't even be disorienting, since as mentioned there are no windows, combined with artificial gravity and inertial dampeners, you dont feel movement of the ship.
Agreed, this is a non-problem. There isn't even a really good reason why all the decks need to have the same notion of "up," much less worry about whether the bridge officers are truly facing forward. By the way, I have to give credit to Roddenberry and crew for, at least on a few epidoses, actually showing that front starboard part of the bridge film set that was usually not there (the part to Spock's left). They could have gone the whole three year series just implying it, but there are a few times that they actually let you see the whole circle as though it was always there.
Now...a few nagging problems:
The weapons control station, which is the console immediately to Spock's left, is never used as one. In practice, whenever phaser or photon torpedo controls are wanted, this is controlled by Chekov from the navigator's console at the center, or even by Sulu from the helm console. On the rare occasion that we do see Chekov get up and go to the actual weapons console to Spock's left, he's using the scanner hood at that console as a sort of science-officer's-console-for-people-other-than-Spock in Spock's absence, to get sensor readings and generally do Spock stuff when Spock isn't around, almost as though it would be sacrilege for Chekov to touch Mr. Spock's actual console even when he's away. I don't think there's ever a time in the whole series that we ever see weapons fired from this "weapons console," by Chekov or anyone else.
The environmental engineer's station (on the port side of the bridge) is associated with the mercurial Lt. Cmdr. Kyle, ostensibly the ship's environmental engineer. Essentially, he's in charge of life support systems, and while this isn't a plot-central job in the show, he curiously is both in and out of the senior officers club so to speak depending on what day it is apparently. On the one hand, he's running a department that's seldom talked about and seldom seen. (And when we do go into Life Support, he's never around.) On the other hand, he's a lieutenant commander, the same rank as Mr. Scott (though certainly junior to him in position), and in at least one episode, he even gets the conn! Later, on USS Reliant in Star Trek II, we see the mercurial Mr. Kyle has -- right alone with Chekov -- ended up as a Reliant bridge officer, taking an officer from the original show that most hardly noticed and giving him continuity into the movies and putting him on a different starship! Who were you Mr. Kyle? We never knew ya...
And finally, the engineer's station on the bridge, sometimes (but not often) manned by Scotty himself, but usually manned by some grunt from the engine room that Scotty has sent up to keep the seat warm and not talk to anybody. What is the purpose of this station? Ostensibly, having it on the bridge allows the captain a better interactivity with Engineering -- but he never utilizes it. Whenever Kirk wants anything from Engineering, he intercoms directly to Engineering and speaks to Scotty himself, immediately. Whoever the underling at the bridge engineering console is, whatever he's doing, he can just keep on doing it, because the captain wants to talk to somebody important, and that's clearly not whomever the warm body sitting at that console happens to be. Frankly, I'm surpised Scotty keeps sending anybody up there. I mean basically, duty at the bridge engineering console amounts to front desk duty at a hotel that nobody ever stays at. You might as well just play games on your phone for your whole shift.
This begs the 2000lb gorilla question....then why have the C&C in a bubble on top of the ship, most exposed to radiation, collision and firepower.
If Khan had just been a few meters lower as Reliant crossed Enterprise....the bridge would gave been peeled off or crushed...no phaser needed.
It is there because Matt Jeffrey drew it there for the filming model in The Cage.
Elevator doors are at a skew from the back of the captain's chair so the camera angles are right, and so Shatner wouldn't look awkward craning his neck and lifting his buttock every time someone came up.
The bridge design is an elaboration on Rocky Jones, where it was a viewscreen, astrogator panel, two B17 style chairs, and an elevator that Vina often used....all in a straight line.
If you had a captain's throne inserted into that....it would be unfilmable with the elevator doors dead back.
I've been a Trek fan since the early 90s, and I never knew about the bridge orientation till I recently bought the 1/350th scale model. The model gives you the option of having the bridge one way or the other. Still debating how I want to build it. It seems so strange building it with the view screen to the port side.
I know, it would be strange. The refit Enterprise solved the issue by extending the structure aft so it covered not just one turbolift, not just two turbolifts, but two turbolifts and an airlock!
On my 1/350 Enterprise model I put mine straight ahead I tried it cocked to the side &it looked stupid🙂
@@scifiguy26 I'm probably going to set mine up the same way, especially since it's so visible on this model. I just can't have the view screen pointing anywhere but forward.
@@tedcharter4804 agreed 👍
I suggest reconfiguring the stations so that the viewscreen *and* the turbolift are along the centerline. That's probably what I'll do if I ever get around to assembling any of my 1:350s.
I always figured it was for filming purposes only that we weren't given full access to the bridge layout. In filming there is almost always a "4th wall" and the round shape of the bridge didn't really provide for that.
I'm glad someone is addressing this. This really aggravated me when I saw the Starfleet Technical Manual from the 70s. The physics of this would imply anytime the ship moved, turned, or shook you'd find out who had motion sickness really fast.
But they have self-contained gravity fields and inertia screens, or something. So they never notice any outside acceleration. Except when they do.
That's why they had inertial dampeners. When they are thrown around, it's because of the sudden change in the conditions that temporarily overwhelm the dampeners. (Taking fire, collisions, etc)
@@johnmullholand2044 Yeah, but think of a roller coaster doing a sudden dip around a bend. During an impact or acceleration force, the bridge crew is off the x/y axes to the rest of the ship. When that force is exerted, the crew isn't just feeling the normal effect of the impact along the x/y/z axes, they're also doing it at a skew to everyone else. Just like the gyros in cruise ships to limit sway, inertial dampeners are just that: dampeners. They're not inertial neutralizers. They're not being launched just forward or side to side. There's a diagonal component that I would think would cause a flood of emails to Starfleet Health and Safety.
I would have thought that node would have been like another room or the uppermost computer core access rather than the top of the turbolift shaft. I mean, wouldn't that make the exterior hull to the bridge comically thin (outside of the lunacy of having your control center at the uppermost point of the ship to act as a "shoot here" beacon to any gunslinger with a beef against the Feds)?
In "Requiem for Methuselah", the forward viewscreen is shown as a window, by Kirk looking in at the frozen bridge crew when the ship was shrunken down. It does appear from the angle he was approaching and withdrawing from the ship that it was on the angle discussed in this video.
thats fascinating im gonna watch that now
In the remastered version?
@@orionred2489 Pretty sure it's in the original take. It occurs on Flint's planet, when Flint was showing off his power. He pulls the Enterprise out of orbit, and shrinks it down to where it fits on his desk - looks exactly like the model kit of the Enterprise I built as a 10-year old - and Kirk looks in from the forward port side, and can see the bridge crew frozen in place. There's a cut to the inside, and we can see Kirk's face looking in.
A bit past half-way, I think. Don't hold me to that, though.
@@OGSontar Season 3, Episode 19, at 39:35.
How about a turbolift carriage that not only rises vertically, but also moves laterally over to the location of the set doors?
I had never really thought about it. But it certainly makes sense. Thanks for sharing.
Am I a nerd because YT recommended this video for me or because I watched and thoroughly enjoyed it? Don't answer.... just rhetoric
Thanks for this. Very good work. I always wondered about the location of the bridge and wondered if it was beneath or above the main dish- but kind of thought it would really need to be in the centre to bury is as deep as possible so it was less vulnerable? The only reason NOT to would be if the "screen" was more of a "'window" (which it seems to be in the KELVIN TIMELINE version) but as you point out, that really is not the case here and the TV show is consistent with this also in reference and it's application. So with that being the case, there is NO REASON for the control room to be situated at such a vulnerable location, and yet everything- most particularly the evident "turbo lift" shaped presence at the back of the dome at the top- would indicate as much
When star ship weapons, on Star Trek, can blast clean through an unshielded ship's saucer, burying the bridge deep inside would be pointless.
@@CZ350tuner you're seriously saying that locating the control hub of the entire ship deeper in the infrastructure would be "pointless"? Man come ON. It's not just enemy weaponry, it's space debris, meteors, missiles- things that could get through if the shields were down or malfunctioning. Not very impressed you got "highlighted reply". I guess I'm just talking to dogmatist's.
@@misterwtf7380 I think there is an in universe explanation at least for TOS ship classes. Constitution Class ships definitely were expensive to produce and they took a long time in spacedock to refit, so they were made modular and generic. Another reason why corridor b2 on deck 5 looks identical to corridor b5 on deck 9, so that you could remove a piece swap in another in short time for a specific mission, turning a shuttle bay into a factory or turning a recreation bay into colonist sleeping quarters. The bridge also could be swapped out for one with specialized stations or consoles. it would be easier to swap out a bridge module if it were located at the top of the ship and sensor packages if they were at the bottom of the saucer.
Considering we have already developed the first 3D displays, here in the early 21st century, you’d think by that time you could have screens in every room that would be indistinguishable from windows.
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 I tell myself that conditions in space make that technology unreliable LOL
But yeah. I mean. ALIEN have cathode ray tube monitor's vs. Tech in Prometheus (admittedly a "top of the line" ship). So I hazard that the mining vessel has to go through magnetic or radiation fields which older analogue tech is more robust in
I believe this is an example of confused scale. I believe there are at least 3 torpedo rooms. 2 side by side feeding the 2 launchers. The torpedo module in the dorsal, above the stardrive is quite wide. That the torpedo room was blown up in WOK, yet the Enterprise can still fire a torpedo, and the torpedo room is untouched for Spock's funeral supports this. I think that many illustrations, not created by architects or engineers and assumptions by fans believe a few things about the Enterprise that aren't true, almost all related to scale. This is one of them. A previous video by this channel assumes that the intermix chamber goes from the stardrive all the way up into the saucer. This would leave very little space for this torpedo room, if it is a center room. The fact that there is a single track and single door, yet 2 launch openings suggests that there are 2 torpedo rooms. Another challenge of scale is the turbolift. Most people think the bump on the back of the bridge deck is an elevator shaft. I believe it is a a sensor hub. I think the turbolift is enclosed in the bubble that makes up the bridge deck. One of the challenges of misinterpreting scale is that many people assume the bridge takes up the entire bubble. It doesn't, there is an entire corridor around the bridge inside that same space. This is clear, if a wacky scale, in even the earliest blueprints. It houses a security station, bathrooms, and an additional turbolift. Here is a link to the blueprint: imgur.com/gallery/PiPxL0s
Mr Trek, who is in the process of building a 1/25 scale tos Enterprise model inside and out, has resolved this once and for all, imo.
When scaled properly, the bridge diameter allows a walking maintenance corridor and stairs to the trardrop area.
The aft part of the bridge sphere where the assumed turbolift shaft is, actually contains several turbolift cars, ready for emergencies.
One is always ready at the doors, and more called up and moved over to drop down the shaft as needed.
The captain and viewscreen face forward.
The recently released Tomy Tos 1701 confirms this and has the bridge scaled correctly and oriented forward.
On point
Agreed re Mr Treks outstanding work.
Also great point re the Tomy 1701
Did they ever say just how big the Connie Enterprise is on screen? I mean, I saw in an earlier comment left here that quoted a book as saying Enterprise was 940-ish feet in length. If we need more room under the dome to fit a forward facing bridge and offset lift then why can't we just say that Enterprise is 1500 feet long? Or 2000 feet, it's all head canon anyways. Increasing the max length would serve to make everything else proportionally bigger as a result and that'll give you the extra space needed to make the design work. That protrusion on the back of the bridge? That's for something else. What that is, I don't know.
Excellent video, by the way. The algorithm recommended me this channel last night and I'm glad it did.
Franz Joseph just made that up. That is not the turboshaft seen from the outside - it's the access port to refill deuterium tanks when in spacedock. The 'bubble' the bridge is located in is plenty big to have the lift there without being visible from the outside. But once the error was made by Joseph it's been carried on like the most urban legends - never correct and never to die out.
I think so too.
It was not an error, it was the unmistakable consequence of matching the interior set to the exterior miniature. I doubt Franz Joseph actually liked it that way; but he followed the evidence.
And, no, the dome is most definitely not "plenty big" unless you scale the ship up quite a bit from its traditionally accepted 947' length.
@@lossatt If JF had truly "followed the evidence", he'd have noted that in "The Cage"/"The Menagerie", the bridge is shown facing forward during the iconic "flyover into the bridge" money shot scene.
Even he acknowledged that there's plenty of space between the bridge outer hull shell and the consoles to put a 2 meter wide corridor with a head (restroom) and an emergency gangway. He could easily have made it so that there's a pull over to the doors for the turbolift.
If you want to take the crude special effect at the beginning of the Cage as definitive, you have to have the bridge not level with the rest of the ship and its rotation and angle changing dynamically (it "moves" relative to the ship during the shot), and it extending into space. (Not just a rotated bridge, a *rotating* bridge!) The shot is effective at establishing the general location only.
As for there being plenty of room in the dome for that surrounding corridor (and head etc.), FJ was fudging the scale for practicality sake.
Just because there is a circular dome behind the bride module doesn't mean it has to be a shaft for the turbolift. If you scale the bridge down a little. It could be an escape pod for the bridge crew, a sensor module or a launch buoy for the ships log. It's a better answer and doesn't mess the size problem like jj enterprise does.
If it was an escape pod, there doesn't seem to be a way to enter it from the bridge layout. Functionally, it makes the most sense that it was the turbo shaft itself. Even the set of the bridge of the Enterprise D in TNG has a turbo lift in the same location relative to the captain's chair.
@@christopherdaffron8115 like I said if it was scaled down or it could be used to launch a probe. Actually if it were scaled down you could access through the turbolift. It's Sci-fi the possibilities are endless.
Two reasons, the turbolift is slightly to the left and they use a viewscreen, they don't necessarily need to be facing the right way.
Also, artificial gravity and inertial dampers means that acceleration forces don't matter.
@@Ostsol In the original series the bast are frequently thrown in various directions by the ship's acceleration. If the bridge were at an angle, those directions would be different.
The viewscreen is its own issue which could stand explanation. The normal bridge viewscreen view from "standard orbit" shows the planet at the bottom of the viewscreen as if the ship were oriented parallel to the planet surface. The exterior shots, however, show the ship moving either across the face of the planet or in a high-latitude orbit. Either way, the ship is oriented perpendicular to the surface of the planet. In such a case, one would expect the viewscreen to show the planet on the left side, rather than the bottom.
You think television producers and directors think of that? They're trying to crank out a show every 5 days.
With DT even one that was so little successful, you has other issues than lore problems in 2022.
Another reason for the offset of turbolift would Kirk or anyone sitting in the center seat having swivel 180° to interact with whoever comes out. I seem to remember somewhere that the bridge was originally to have two turbo lift doors similar to the refit. There have been many head canon attempts to explain the offset, even some using the acting out of impacts and the direction the crew goes to explain it. There has also been explainations using The Cage opening that the doors and the bump in the back do not line up anyway so that cannot be for the turbolift.
It always baffled me that one of the most important parts of the ship was the most exposed. Its an overhang from the nautical theme but no sane designer would put the bridge of a spaceship is such a vulnerable place… although we are talking about designers who failed to design the warp engines so the core could be easily ejected when necessary.
I think the Turbo Lift was supposed to be (by design in the series' "world") directly behind the Captain's Char and both in line with the center line of the ship. But since filming was setup to be oblique and not right in front (which would be cluttered, flat, and not look like a objective [non participant] view of the bridge), keeping the Turbo Lift behind the Captain's chair would end up being to the left of upstage center from our view. This would put the Science Station to our far left and mostly out of view for most shots. So, the Captain's Chair does face forward and is on center line of the ship, but the "outer" ring stations of the bridge were simply rotated (in the set) to bring the Science Station into view with the Turbo Lift ending up stage center. On the right side of the screen is the Engineering Station which would have been directly behind the Captain's Chair and clutter up the shot as well from the major oblique shot angle. So rotating the outer ring stations clock wise, the Science, Communications, and Enginnering Stations are all visible and not cluttered with the Captain's Chair at center stage. The Turbo Lift ends up directly behind the Captain's Chair and becomes a nice backdrop, and only transient activity is there. Many times, the camera is moved to the right to put the Turbo Lift slightly to the right of the Captain's Chair so it doesn't block the Turbo Lift when it is important for main character entrances and exits. In all this, the station to the right of the Engineering Station (I think it was the Environmental Station) was moved far to the right of the screen and is thus mostly out of view. Since there was no major character at that station, it was a good compromise. I forget what is the station to the right of the Environmental Station, but it is totally off screen, as is the Weapons Station which is off screen to the left. There may have been (in the design) for 4 stations on either side of the Turbo Lift, but they were usually removed to make room for the cameras, only in the shots when filmed from the Captain's point of view could they be seen, but the Viewer was zoomed enough in those shots so they didn't have to be put in for those shots (saving setup time). I think there was one or two very rare shots when those stations were seen.
So even though the Turbo Lift looks to be over the back left shoulder of the Captain, we are supposed to interpret it as directly behind the Captain.
If you are ever in Ticonderoga, New York, USA (up near Lake Champlain), visit the Star Trek mockup studio tour. A fan created all the sets from the original series to perfect detail. It is amazing, it brought Willian Shatner to tears when he first saw it. The final set you visit is the Bridge. I have photo of me leaning to one side in the Captain's Chair, my wife tilted the camera the other way... it looks like the Enterprise was hit. I think the tour is $40 for a guided 1 hour tour... it was worth it.
If
All those growing carbuncles over why the bridge is up top, exposed, vulnerable... there's two things going on. First comes from Gene.
Gene saw Star Fleet ships first and foremost as of vessels of exploration, diplomacy and assistance, not warships. He wanted the bridge up top, bold, proud. The ship had advanced defensive shields, immensely destructive weapons, and powerful engines helm and navigation systems, that came into play in regards to protecting the bridge. There's a lot of exposure up there, but there's also a lot of ship and defensive systems in place to protect it - it's fair to assume standard evasive maneuvers include keeping the bridge covered.
As Gene saw it, putting the bridge up top was Star Fleet's way of saying, "In the Federation, there are not fatigued soldiers with machine guns on every corner keeping order. We are not clandestine. We do not exist in fear. We do not spread fear. We seek peace, knowledge, and mutually beneficial co-existence. We come with arms out reached, when you see a Federation ship, you will know it, because our heads are held high, eyes bright and unafraid.
The second thing is, let's do this as a question. What's the most powerful, feared/respected peacekeeping ship in any Navy? The aircraft carrier. Guess where the bridge is not... hidden somewhere deep inside the ship. Nope. It's up top, commanding, bold, proud... unafraid, confident.
So, let's just stop with this bashing of the choice for the bridge to be on top of or otherwise vulnerable. Gene knew exactly what he was doing with that choice. We don't always agree with Gene's vision, but in this case, he nailed it.
Gene also had many episodes where phasers or torpedoes were launched. Not exactly National Geographic.
gene also served in the pacific theater and would have been at least exposed to a fair amount of naval tradition while being shipped around, as well as the ships of the day which still primarily used a primary and battle bridge up top. CICs were a new development that someone who only spent time on ships in transit probably wouldn't have been familiar with, nor would most ships have one anyways
I just justify it as the bridge bein the most durable part of the ship, and maybe where the shields are strongest, essentially if something could blow a hole in the bridge then if it hit elsewhere on the ship the damage would often be much worse.
should also be noted that without shields, federation ships have no armor to speak of so it doesn't matter where the bridge is. Khan once got a through and through shot with a torpedo, in on the ventral ventral and out through the dorsal hull. So at that point doesn't mater, no shields, every place is just as vulnerable as any other. Also saying targeting the bridge is key to taking out the shot is old thinking. The underside is the real weak point, where the highly volatile fuel is stored.
@@AsbestosMuffins Gene Roddenberry was a bomber pilot in the Army Air Forces (later the U.S. Air Force) during World War II. He wasn't in the Navy.
This was an excellent video. Expert graphics and a terrific narrator!
This is one of those videos I couldn´t ever imagine people would even think about for a second.
Who says the whole Bridge doesn't rotate so the elevator matches the doors? God knows why, I'm clutching at straws. Another great video.🙂
Gene Roddenberry famously said "and DON'T let people start thinking the bridge rotates. I don't want that."
Ok, he didn't.
@@misterwtf7380 Right, this is not BATTLESTAR GALACTICA.
@@misterwtf7380 Right, this is not BATTLESTAR GALACTICA.
Basically it was a lack of communication between the model makers & the set builders. Arrrh 1960's TV production values or rather lack of! 😕lol
A bit like J.J. Abrams and his model builders. There's a moment in the 2009 film when Kirk runs from a turbolift to the bridge, but that corridor and turbolift should not exist.
@@AppallingGrandeur Hadn't noticed that. Not really that keen on the JJ stuff. But yeah you'd think they'd pay greater to these things given the vast budgets involved & how the finished product will look. Not only ST but all tv/film production.
Thank you for breaking the fourth wall and making it clear that some fictional dimensions are simply a matter of production conveniences or necessities.
Simple the bridge is a movie set. The three quarter POV is always a strong angle. It makes the set more dynamic and accessible for camera, crew, interesting angles and above all speed for setups. In TV speed is everything.
Just wanted to point out that in early models of the Enterprise, specifically the one from The Cage, one of the many original features that didn’t last past that episode was that the bridge viewscreen WAS in fact a WINDOW.
Don’t believe me?
Go check it out yourself.
And then they brought that back.
Go check it out *where *?!
If you mean check out the rectangular feature shown at the front of the dome on the exterior model seen in the cage, there isn't anything to demonstrate that it's a window.
(However, in Requiem for Methuselah, Kirk appears to look into the bridge from the outside of the shrunken enterprise, implying a window.)
What if just the center of the bridge where the captain and navigation stations are and that part can rotate to look at all other departments? The Captain can increase attention to each department as he sees fit.
The Captain’s Chair already spins; why spin the whole center section?
@@seannemo8076 So the Captain can always move independently, it is not like they have a ready room. Regardless of design, the Captain or leaders chair regardless of setting is going to be distinct somehow, whether it be a bridge or a boardroom, a desk (when directly supervising blue collar especially).
@@johnnealis6826 They already can. The Captain's Chair in ToS spins 360 degrees, and the captain _can_ get up and move if necessary. My point is that there is no point in spinning Con and Ops, too. Those stations are better off remaining stationary, given that they have a decided need to be able to see the main screen.
You have a very subtle, and hilarious sense of humor.
I read that the bubble at the back of the bridge is just where the car comes up, it then slides to the side so we see it in the familiar position on the interior shots.
This is a really well done video, but there are a few things I think to emphasize:
1) The Franz Joseph blueprints, a copy of which I own and love, are not canon. So, take them with a grain of salt.
2) The opening shot of The Cage/The Menagerie is ambiguous on this point, as the inserted footage of the crew and the bridge into the model work is less than fixed (there is a bit of a wobble/slide in the compositing). You can watch that scene and interpret it a few ways, but some think it DOES show the bridge at an angle and other think it looks straight on. The scene can be found here at the 49 second mark ua-cam.com/video/RgoBvEUdgOg/v-deo.html
3) The crew reacts to impacts/violence/phasers/etc. as if the bridge faces forward.
4) I agree fully that the Main Viewer is not a window, but in Requiem for Methuselah they sure seem to act like it is a window!
I suspect the set was built by different people than built the models, and they had to reconcile this years later but at the time they neither knew nor cared about this issue at all.
Looking at that video, it seems clear that the turbo lift bump location does not match up with the location of the turbo lift when the zoom in.
The 1996 TOS remaster CGI of the scene leaves the bridge clearly facing forward.
Thank you for an actual explanation instead of in-universe nitpicking.
I really don’t know why people find this design so perplexing. I was three years old when Star Trek premiered and I think I was, possibly, five when my father bought me the old AMT plastic model kit of the Enterprise starship. Even at that age, I realized, from comparing the model to the depictions in the show, that the bridge was slightly cocked counter-clockwise. It seemed a bit strange to me at the time, I guess, but since then, I’ve realized that design oddities always occur for a reason.
One can argue that the reason in this case was inspired by either cinematography or drama concerns, and it probably was, but in my explorations of this particular series and its designers, who by the way, were exceptionally talented, nothing was intentionally included in the show that couldn’t be explained in the lexicon of the show.
I’m not sure that I ever came across any “official Star Trek-canon” explanation for this particular design oddity, but to me, the layout of the bridge makes good design sense, from the point of view of the captain’s need for information, and frankly, I see no reason why it would have ever needed to have been aligned perfectly, front-to-back, with the rest of the ship.
I never even knew that, since I've never bothered looking up the plans. But that makes total sense.
I like that it's at an angle.
It shows that the TV production was thought out and staged by brilliant people. It is the perfect theater stage for the type of show it is.
I just watched Star Trek The Naked Time S-1. I never noticed the door at the angle like that before. So while watching the show it appears to me that the viewer screen and capt chair still could be facing forward and only the turbo doors are at the angle and still line up with the saucer's neck for going to lower levels. Therefore where the rest of ship is so big compared to the bridge and turbo lift, meaning, I think it is still possible that the turbo lift can still be at a 36* angle and still line up with the saucers neck, so I conclude the viewer screen and capt chair are still facing forward......
But to really find out for sure, I propose that the USS Enterprise be built to full scale........
the simplest solution, beyond just not tying the lift to the protrusion, would have been a protrusion that was more or less three times as wide wrapping around the back of the "bridge bubble" in which it might be speculated the lift was at the far right side of this wider protrusion
I understand that but in many shots the camera is directly in front of the helm console and the turbo lift is seen over Kirk's left shoulder, not upstage centre.
Something else to consider: in _TOS: “The Cage”_ and to a lesser extent _TOS: “Where No Man Has Gone Before”_ the turbolift was directly behind the Captain’s Chair thus more properly conforming to the external structure of the filming model. The fact that a dramatic shift in layout for the regular episodes was out of the control of the model builders and the producers probably weren’t concerned nor prescient enough to foresee nerds like us staring at every inch of the ultimate _franchise._
And then there’s the fact that at least on _The Animated Series_ an episode implied a second turbolift was on the bridge.
I tried to link in some images, but youtube seems to block URLs. :-(. Oddly, while I found pictures that clearly show the turbolift port of centerline and the captain's chair platform connecting by the communication station, there is a shot looking over Gary Mitchel's shoulder that sure makes it look like the lift is directly behind him. (Maybe the navigation/helm console was out of position for that shot.)
Something I just realized while playing Star Trek Online, through the TOS era tutorial, there is a mission that is an insert into the "Journey to Bable" episode.
Part of that mission send the player to the Enterprise bridge.
And when you look on the map, the turbolift is centered "south" where the viewscreen is facing North-north-west.
Just a small neat detail, that I would have missed if this particular video hadn't made me aware of it.
I think there's one other factor. The large, lighted model of the ship was only filmable from one side. In scenes where the ship is seen going the other way, the film is reversed, and backwards lettering was used on the nacelles. And so the ship had to be symmetrical.
Excellent makes perfect sense for a change.
That was so satisfying.
Thank you.
Thanks for the break down, it seems only obvious after you’ve explained it!
I came across this by accident while I was building the Enterprise in Minecraft for my channel. I was looking at the turbolift shaft and was thinking how is it on an angle?? Nice video.
I love the narrator's voice. Very soothing.
"Repeat to yourself, 'it's just a show, I should really just relax'..." :D
Cool. Thanks for sharing.
I already knew about the off center to Port Bow setting of The bridge. But this is still very interesting video. Especially when you explain the practical dramatic or cinematic reason for it's staging.
This is probably why on the Enterprise D, it's Turbolift was in the same place, and it has always been off to one of the quarters on a starship, and I guess off to the port side on ds9.
got to love speech to text/autocorrect. ah yes, the "Bridge Herbalife"
@@sariarosegold I hate when I forgot to proof read my text... Ty
@@chuckwieser7622 np, i got a laugh out of it once i parsed what you actually were saying, so i thought I'd share my amusement is all
@@sariarosegold I did too kind of when I read "Bridge Herbalife" 😉😂
I thought I read or heard somewhere that they didn’t realize the filming orientation they needed until after the model was built. Any of the bridge stations could be removed for filming and in fact there are a few episodes of season 1 that that show the bridge consoles to the left of Spock. It also occurs to me that it would have taken all of about 20 or 30 minutes to reposition the captain’s chair and nav/helm console. If a lost pre-production photo of them aligned with the turbo lift ever shows up, I won’t be surprised.
Then there's that excellent episode, "The Doomsday Machine " where the director had the camera pan with a character when he's walking in front of the main screen. He must have uniquely used rear projection for that.
@@cmillerg6306 I have a picture in my head of Kirk circling the bridge, but I don’t remember which episode. There’s also a shot in a very early episode looking into the bridge from the turbo lift. Again, I can’t remember which. I think it might be Corbomite Maneuver.
The Revell model I've had in the 1990s had a protrusion offset to the port side to align with the turbolift shaft from the interior set. I don't remember exactly whether this was in addition to a larger protrusion straight aft or instead of it. But I never even noticed that the ship didn't look like that on the show.
I seriously never noticed this! In my minds eye, I always saw the turbo lift door as being directly behind the captains chair. Now I can’t unsee it! I’m going to notice this any time I watch Star Trek now. Thinking about it now, I did always notice the turbo lift in TNG was very much off to the right, but I never noticed the subtle shift in the original series.
It's worth noting that having the angle does make some sense in terms of not requiring the captain to turn all the way around if he wants to see somebody coming onto the bridge. If you've got a viewing screen, you can orient the bridge however you like. Having it at an offset angle would make as much sense as not. Plus in case of a mutiny, it gives the captain slightly better odds of seeing it coming.
That being said, it probably is just a matter of there being a discrepancy between the model and the set.
It's always funny how incredibly silly it all gets. The establishing shot in The Cage already shows the turbolift doors don't align with that cylinder in back. All anyone had to do when drawing up blueprints later was assume the Enterprise was actually bigger than someone jotted down in production notes, create a ring around the bridge, and then let the turbolift either line up with the doors or, if that cylinder indeed was the shaft, come up and jog over. Problem solved and none of that ridiculous off-by-36-degrees stuff.
BTW, we already know there must be another way to enter and exit the bridge because somehow Kirk and Deela can enter/exit the bridge despite the turbolift being far, far too slow in their accelerated time in "Wink of an Eye." It doesn't appear to simply be a ladder somewhere, so there must be enough space behind the bridge wall for people to get out. And since it's circular, that would be some kind of wrapping corridor.
It makes perfect sense why they put the turbolift where they did, and it makes sense why plans of the ship show the bridge at an angle. What doesn't make sense is why, when designing the original show, nobody noticed this and said "Hey, let's move that little bump on the model to where the turbolift actually is." They included a structure to represent the turbolift, you can't tell me that nobody noticed the difference in placement between the model and the set that they were designing.
Wow, all those over-long fades to black are just doing my head in!
Mind you, they are not looking out a window on the bridge.
They are looking at a view screen.
So, the bridge does not have to face the front of the ship.
But hey, it's Star Trek.
Anything is possible.
There is one more simple TV reason for the turbolift door being not at the back of the bridge but slightly to the side. Tubolift door at the back of the bridge would mean that anybody who would enter the bridge, would be right behind the captain. He would need to fully turn to see who is coming and/or interact with him. Basicaly he would need to turn away from the camera, almost turning his back to the camera. It is not good thing for TV to have main character constantly turning his back to the viewers.
With turbolift door moved to the side, captain can just slightly turn and look over his shoulder to see and comunicate, so we can still see his facial expression to whatever is happening at the door. And that is good thing for TV.
Thank You! Finally somebody realized this.
There is also a lot of interaction between the Captain and people that just arrived with the turbolift.
Had the turbolift been behind the Captain's chair, first of all, the viewers would have not seen who's into it the moment the doors opened, then the Captain he should have turned completely to face them. With the turbolift at an angle instead, the viewers immediately see who's into it, and the Captain only has to turn his head a little to interact.
A lot of people appear to be behaving like pedantic nerds in the comments. Ignore them, the video is fun and explains stage concepts, ship concepts, and also has a little fun with the onscreen models rarely if ever perfectly representing the ships supposed inside them. Remember folks, Ex Astris Scientia was created to cover over the patchwork of holes in the Star Trek Cannon, the fact is sometimes stuff just gets screwed up or not considered perfectly.
Shit at least these turbolifts aren't in some pocket subspace dimension.
James Tiberius Kirk was a habitual drifter... 36° offset to simulate straight travel... He always kicked it out to the left.👽
The original concept of the Turbolift was that it moved both vertically and horizontally within the ship. so it would have to line up with the bridge/engineering sections central connection. In latter series it's notes that the lift also travels concentrically around the saucer section and rotates in 90 degree intervals in other parts of the ships.
I think the turbo lift is like the great glass elevator, it can go any direction or even blast out of the top of the ship. That’s the button Kirk tells everyone not to press.
Because they designed the bridge set and the ship model separately. It was later they discovered the location of the turbolift door on the bridge set and the turbolift bump on the model didn't match, so they decided to say that the bridge was cockeyed because it was easier than trying to fix it.
You could argue that having the doors slightly to the side it'd be more frequently in the captain's peripheral vision than if it was directly behind him
You got my sub, pilgrim. Godspeed🛸
There is another consideration. If the turbolift is shot at an angle, the camera can't see the back of the turbolift. Meaning the set doesn't need to have a back which makes it much easier for the cast to get in and out of position.
Its the same reason that the Millenium Falcon has curved hallways.
I always thought the bridge was in a stupid position. The bridge should have been in the middle of the saucer section, so you would have more armor and decks between the outside. This would protect the most important crew of the whole ship. Hey look a bullseye to target in the middle of that big round part.
I have the technical manual and I still learned something new!