Challenges Facing Game Artists

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  • Опубліковано 16 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 87

  • @TripleFudgePacker
    @TripleFudgePacker Рік тому +58

    The worst parts are the non-artist stuff, since you're not just an artist but rather a *game* artist:
    -Learning a new art program's tools and workflow
    -Figuring out file types
    -Exporting files to the right spot
    -Properly pushing or undoing commits without breaking anything
    -Resizing/Rotating the assets
    -Needing to assemble the game's UI inside the game engine
    -Putting assets in the game yourself and dealing with someone else's UI
    -Figuring out how to create proper guidelines for placing assets (rulers, snapping things to grids, etc) and not accidentally breaking them
    -Adjusting (or completely redoing) the timing of your animation just to fit the game's engine
    -Dealing with people (devs or game testers) getting attached to placeholder art (same with placeholder music)
    Most of problems are solvable in a short amount of time, but an artist is already exhausted from art and doesn't want to read cryptic documentation to learn the nuance. Sometimes the people that can help just aren't available and then you have to deal with it on your own.

    • @Spalthersaar
      @Spalthersaar 8 місяців тому

      "there is No Fudge Here!"

    • @gruntaxeman3740
      @gruntaxeman3740 Місяць тому

      You got one wrong.
      Artists are constructing information like everyone in team. They are delivering something and it is very much their responsibility to deliver art in correct file format and naming files properly using convention.
      That also applies to any other specification there is, like texel density, geometry density and amount of texture area like fitting stuff in atlas. Stuff like that is done in modelling program instead of other tools.

  • @SoFishtry
    @SoFishtry Рік тому +48

    I'm sure the mouse cursor was very cool, tim.

    • @CainOnGames
      @CainOnGames  Рік тому +58

      Narrator: the mouse cursor was not cool.

    • @coffeebreakhero3743
      @coffeebreakhero3743 Рік тому +9

      @@CainOnGames hahahahaha I actually heard this in my head

  • @renaigh
    @renaigh Рік тому +37

    sometimes dissonance can be a deliberate artistic choice and sometimes accidents turn into inspiration.

  • @samb495
    @samb495 Рік тому +20

    Dang, wish i could work for Tim Cain. Seems like a great guy, understanding, professional, and knows how to work with artists

  • @zoltankoves
    @zoltankoves Рік тому +3

    In my opinion a real compliment an artist can get is:
    "Wow, how did you do that?" -it means your art is good enough people want to imitate you.

  • @VyseCalamity
    @VyseCalamity Рік тому +4

    I don't know why but I appreciate that you say "Hi everyone" at the start of your videos its nice.

  • @Vault5Dweller
    @Vault5Dweller Рік тому +11

    A fine overview of some of the limitations faced by artists and developers, respectively. I've noticed that so many of these poignant discussions are also applicable to film, to creative projects in general, and to business/management. Thanks!

  • @baddragonite
    @baddragonite Рік тому +14

    Your videos inspire me and I really appreciate your stories.
    I've loved doing 2D video game sprite art and music ever since I was a kid playing on MS Paint. I also really love learning about Game Design and have studied it for ages (informally because college wasn't really an option for me for several reasons). Now I'm trying to learn programming. It seems to be the hardest part for me. I've only ever really made half of a Pokemon Romhack before and the beginnings of a fighting game that was lost to a damaged hard drive. Maybe one day I'll be able to make a full game myself.
    Wish me luck and have a great day!

  • @ZiddersRooFurry
    @ZiddersRooFurry Рік тому +5

    I do my best to keep critique to myself unless it's a compliment and even then I do my best to not compare people to other artists as that can be really demotivating, too. I know that when it comes to a commercial product the artists who worked on it have to expect at least SOME critique but there's a difference between critique and shitty opinion. People need to remember there's someone behind the pen/tablet. Thanks for offering your insight, Tim. I'm really grateful to have supported so many of your games. You've provided me with a ton of entertainment over the years and due to our shared love of your titles you have caused me to make some amazing friends. It's so very, very much appreciated.

    • @cmdr.jabozerstorer3968
      @cmdr.jabozerstorer3968 Рік тому

      This.
      People are currently dunking on the Avowed art style but it's all entirely preference and subjective. I know they feel aggrieved that the first trailer was darker aesthtically but to call the new trailer "cartoony" is just silly. The art style of Avowed is not cartoony. People just don't like it because it uses a brighter tone of palette and actually matches the art style of Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 much better than the original traile did..

    • @FluffySylveonBoi
      @FluffySylveonBoi Рік тому

      Cute pfp by the way o.o

  • @DapperProf
    @DapperProf Рік тому +5

    The advantage artists usually have is we've been through art school, and art school critiques can be far more brutal than clients. 😅

  • @stevensavage9491
    @stevensavage9491 Рік тому +2

    Heya Tim. Thank you very much for making these videos. It's great to get a view through your eyes on all the awesome games we loved growing up. If I ever decide to show myself where I stream... I'm wearing different shirts every video.

  • @ValdVincent
    @ValdVincent Рік тому +6

    Sounds all about right, really is just three groups of people in gaming industry these days, those that got in simply because they were already in it and or have connections that just want to make money, people that can work well in a group, deal with all kinds of pressure and poor working conditions, and the oddly growing yet still very small group of people that can do everything themselves and can and often are just one man teams. A shocking number of people these days are one man teams, often doing very advanced or interesting games.

  • @davidmiles329
    @davidmiles329 Рік тому +3

    Dear Tim, thank you as always!
    Could you do video about challenges audio people would face? Composers and sound designers i mean

  • @Spalthersaar
    @Spalthersaar 8 місяців тому

    It is late at night here in Germany. I cant sleep.... Again.
    And watching Timothy Cain, talkin interesting Stuff
    Thank you Tim.

  • @theshoeburglar901
    @theshoeburglar901 Рік тому +1

    Unnecessary feedback happens quite often usually from an overlay picky lead that wants to appear as though they're doing their job if they can't find major faults they'll pick out little things like "Specular value is at 39,39,39 should be 38,38,38" or if there's just not enough resolution on your ID maps you can sometimes have 1 or 2 pixels of colour bleed into the different masks which isn't an issue because the player will never see that in game because its only 2 pixels but a picky lead will kick back the asset and tell you to fix it.
    In the end the final result post feedback looks identical to the pre feedback result because the problems pointed out were so small it's just a waste of time to fix. Worse, this can sometimes be brought up on performance reviews because a producer just sees you had feedback on an asset, they don't see it was useless feedback or an asset took more time than expected because you had to deal with useless feedback.
    However worst I've had to deal with is I've been been a weapon artist for almost 7 years now so I have my own preferred workflow for modelling and my own preferred software but sometimes you'll be critiqued for not doing some other type of workflow despite both being able to achieve the same end result. Being forced into a workflow I'm unfamiliar with is annoying because I know the art wont be done to the best of my abilities or be done as quickly then you have producers nagging at you about deadlines.

  • @beautifulbearinatutu4455
    @beautifulbearinatutu4455 Рік тому +1

    Surprised we didn't get a video about writing, because I feel like they share the problem with designers where *everybody* thinks they can do a better job. Thanks for the videos anyway!

  • @atompunk5575
    @atompunk5575 Рік тому +6

    Will you talk about writing in games? Narratives, characters, lore, etc. I'd love to work as a writer in the gaming industry

    • @atompunk5575
      @atompunk5575 Рік тому

      @@lrinfi oh, gawd 😱

    • @allluckyseven
      @allluckyseven Рік тому

      @@lrinfi Having not read that article yet and wanting to comment (sorry in advance) I think it's still the job of a writer (or group) to oversee all that. And the general fear, from what I've been seeing around, is that AI will replace writers. But no, I don't think that that's gonna happen. People will always have to look for the output, like, try and review what the bots generate as best they can (some may be a blackbox still, but companies will want to avoid not knowing if a bot will generate something offensive, for instance)... Which can definitely be a challenge, but it sounds cool to me too. Not really reviewing AI work, but trying to direct bots to do what you want.

    • @allluckyseven
      @allluckyseven Рік тому

      @@lrinfi Aw, now I'm curious about that video. xD
      But hey, thanks for the reply.
      The thing with BioWare, though, may be related to when they were acquired by EA. Aggravated by when the two doctors left (if that happened after the acquisition, can't remember). Looks like Casey Hudson (the other BW founder) isn't there anymore either... So... yeah, that's probably an entirely different company at this point.

  • @SharkyKrunk
    @SharkyKrunk Рік тому

    This triad of videos was great - it's the kind of thing people working in software should keep a playlist of to remind themselves of what they need to be aware of when working in a team. I do my best to encourage an environment where developers aren't interrupted all the time and get get to queries in their own time, but there's always more that could be done to ensure that. Have you considered doing a Challenges Facing Game QA video as well? I'd be interested to hear how you approach testing too, for example are Unit Tests a thing in game development these days? How do you feel about QA involvement at the design stage?

  • @BatiJuampe
    @BatiJuampe Рік тому

    One of the worst feedbacks I got in my career as an Artist/Art Director, in the poorest managed project that I worked on, was: "We are not going with that shadow because we don't know if people are going to like it". At that point I remember thinking "Then I don't know what to do".
    There was such a luck of trust in what we were doing because of fear of failure, that me and my (proven successful) team didn't know how to work anymore.
    Eventually the project got cancelled.

  • @mcashed
    @mcashed Рік тому +2

    Artist here....yep! Although, I would only add that we can have 12 ice cream flavours, but that's out of the thousands of possible tastes. Art being good in terms of its quality is much more objective than people think. Difference between two mega masters like Frazetta and Leffel might be a matter of ones taste, but a difference between someone like Justin Sweet and myself is pretty objectively skewed against me:)

  • @sharpedog666
    @sharpedog666 Рік тому +5

    I have always loved Pixel Art especially those with a VGA 256 color palette, for example the textures used in Duke Nukem 3D (Build Engine). A few of my friends would say it's outdated and bad graphics and they would compare it with Call of Duty which always bugged me. If only they saw the "outdated graphics" with a better resolution at 1080p, i think old graphics that have an increased resolution makes it look nicer and less taxing for the eyes. I also think vector graphics are smooth as hell with CRT Monitors like the game Elite and Asteroids, shame it's not used in modern gaming.

    • @DanielFerreira-ez8qd
      @DanielFerreira-ez8qd Рік тому +1

      Pixel art doesn't get enough respect. People think just because it's 'easier' to make a game with it means it's 'easy' to make overall.

    • @sharpedog666
      @sharpedog666 Рік тому

      @@DanielFerreira-ez8qd I agree, Pixel Art takes time and isn't an easy process... especially choosing the right palette

  • @theJellyjoker
    @theJellyjoker 9 місяців тому

    When someone gives me feedback like "I don't like it." I respond with "Anything specific? what about X or Y?" I usually approach feedback with the thought "tell me what you hate about this."

  • @michaelmurphy2786
    @michaelmurphy2786 Рік тому

    Having been watching these lately, they've been good for understanding the other side of things when it comes to gaming, but it has made me wonder, what makes a demo good?
    I remember there being tons of them growing up through the 90s as they'd be included in my monthly computer magazines as a kid, and the Scraptown demo for Fallout sold me so well on that era of the franchise that as soon as I could, dad was bullied into buying me the doublepack for christmas 98. I've also played both 1 & 2 every year since that christmas even when I know every path, story and playstyle variable, all because Scraptown was such a good demo. I miss the days of demos.

  • @shiggydiggy6847
    @shiggydiggy6847 Рік тому

    As an amateur artist who has done a few commissions and frequently talk to more active artists, a lot of these things apply to artist work in general. Clients just don't know how to word out what they want or dislike in something, so a lot of the interaction with them is trying to talk, sketch and suggest about what exactly should be changed. I think a lot of it boils down to art classes in basic education just not teaching any fundamental concepts. People are generally clueless about things like value, saturation, composition, perspective and line weight and are unable to pinpoint and communicate what bothers them in something they see. It's a similar case in music, if I had to work with a composer I'd struggle to give any worthwhile feedback because of how clueless I'm at the subject.

  • @Mordrevious
    @Mordrevious Рік тому +2

    Hey Tim, these last three videos have been great.
    I was wondering if you have any 'kill your darlings' instances where you had to remove an element from a game that you really liked but ultimately didn't work for what the project outside of just budget or time constraints?

  • @corpula
    @corpula Рік тому

    Hi Tim! You often talk about note-taking in your videos -- would you mind sharing some tips/your methods? I'm about to start grad school, and would like to hear what works for you. Thanks! Great video, as always.

  • @MrEdders123
    @MrEdders123 Рік тому +6

    I wish I had that shirt.

  • @stevena488
    @stevena488 Рік тому

    I will say this much, you do rock that hat in your picture.

  • @allluckyseven
    @allluckyseven Рік тому

    One challenge I personally had to face, not with games, but with, let's say, software, was working with a programmer which did some "art" of his own (so going over something that it wasn't his job), thinking that that was great, when it was pretty terrible and unjustified (and unjustifiable).
    But yeah, that aside, I think that people in general think that your field (be it design, art, programming) is easy. And fixing whatever it is that you did IS easy. Whatever "fixing" would mean in that specific context.

  • @sandwich2473
    @sandwich2473 Рік тому

    I'll never understand the people who can't find at least one thing to appreciate in art :o
    And at the same time, it's weird that they react so weirdly to a lack of art in the early version of a game
    Maybe there should be mandatory critique courses or maybe an evaluation to be taken before someone can make a comment on such things

  • @abdoulaloui584
    @abdoulaloui584 Рік тому +1

    Hi Tim, one question, are you working on Clockwork Revolution with Jason Anderson and Chad Moore?

    • @awgv
      @awgv Рік тому +2

      In case he won’t see the question, no, he’s working on Outer Worlds 2 with Boyarsky as a design contractor, but not full-time. He talked about this in his “Frequently Asked Questions” video-my understanding is that his role is somewhat minor this time.

    • @abdoulaloui584
      @abdoulaloui584 Рік тому +1

      @@awgv thanks for the reply. He mentioned in that very same video (I think!) that he's working not only on TOW2 but another project (maybe two). He couldn't name it at the time because it wasn't yet announced. Hence my question. I am aware he's a contractor on Outer Worlds 2.

  • @mercai
    @mercai Рік тому +2

    The biggest challenge for game artists is our own selves xD
    Whether it's Ego (Project Goals > Ego) or the Imposter Syndrome, or casually jumping between these two extremes.
    Unconstructive critique is an overall issue for all game dev types, probably comes with the territory. We just learn to sift through it, as well as give specific and constructive feedback to art peers.
    And another huge challenge is seeing a game stumble/fail, despite the art being done very well by all production standards.
    It' a universal challenge, of course. But you can imagine how often we run into it nowadays. When the art quality and its scope has advances in unimaginable ways, every little detail is being put under scrutiny for perfection.
    While the game design etc are often stuck in what we've had a decade ago, or, worse, are leaning toward predatory practices that harm the company/product reputation.
    But we have no input on any these matters in larger companies, because "we are not game designers or producers".
    It's no wonder that many artists grew detached from the product after a while.
    Luckily, technology has advanced to the point where artists are now empowered to make their own games, too.
    Now we can fail or succeed ourselves xD

  • @alexfrank5331
    @alexfrank5331 Рік тому

    In my experience the problem isn't that the director/design isn't able to communicate the idea in their head.
    The problem is often that they just have a vague FEELING, not even a fully formed idea.
    Then it's up the artist/developer to come up with the actual concept that invoke the feeling they're looking for. /facepalm

  • @deecsaunders
    @deecsaunders 7 місяців тому

    I need to see the mouse cursor

  • @MoonSun-sv5fp
    @MoonSun-sv5fp Рік тому +4

    Hello Tim. I'd like to ask why Enclave soldiers kill vault people in Fallout 2 intro? They supposed to be non-mutants and have "pure" dna. Or it was someone's else idea?

    • @Kaiserhawk
      @Kaiserhawk Рік тому +3

      I think Chris Avellone's addressed this previously in the Fallout bible. Basically, they'd been waiting around for days and were bored / annoyed for having to wait that long and took it out on the Vault Dwellers.

    • @TrueNeutralEvGenius
      @TrueNeutralEvGenius Рік тому

      There is an answer to this question on any Fallout site or wiki. Also Fallout 2 itself answers it. So I can only wonder... Wtf.

  • @abrahamdrinkin2534
    @abrahamdrinkin2534 Рік тому

    I’ve noticed there’s no ads on your videos. Is that intentional?

  • @yesfredfredburger8008
    @yesfredfredburger8008 9 місяців тому +1

    “I wish art could be as easy for me as it is for you”. - rough summary of how most people wave away the painstaking work involved with any commercial art project

  • @odrithingamajig
    @odrithingamajig Рік тому

    People thinking their opinion is fact is one of the most consistently frustrating things to me. I listen to a wide variety of music and in every single sphere there are people who just say it's horrible and don't ever give any good reason (read: they just don't like it). And it's so frustrating since you are allowed to just not like something and say 'it's not for me', but many people seem to feel the need to attribute this to some problem with the song itself. Can't imagine what dealing with this in the professional world would be like.

  • @FluffySylveonBoi
    @FluffySylveonBoi Рік тому

    Adding languages to games is great, but I think keeping everything in English is great too in its own way. That's how people are inclined to learn English sometimes.
    I learned most of English as a kid, because of Fallout (1 and 2) because I first played it in my native Czech language and then switched to original. And then in my English classes, I knew the new words and sentences already and about 80% of my English knowledge that time was from Fallout.
    I even used the word "bullshit" once when I was 12 and my teacher wondered where I got it from xD

  • @ikeduno7973
    @ikeduno7973 Рік тому +1

    I went to college for game art design, got to road trip to e3 three years in a row. So much fun. But then I went to go get a job w my academic portfolio and it was super clear I didn't have, like, a life perspective to fill my portfolio with. That was the call to act. A confidence-plumping journey that continues today!

  • @manchesterisblue1023
    @manchesterisblue1023 Рік тому

    thanks for these, fallout is legendary

  • @eyeamnecyrb4567
    @eyeamnecyrb4567 Рік тому

    I named one of my vault dwellers after you in Fallout shelter

  • @fredrik3880
    @fredrik3880 Рік тому

    Sup
    Edit: the style of Fallout and Arcanum is the stuff of legends

  • @wadewade3790
    @wadewade3790 Рік тому +2

    Hi Tim.

  • @turdfurgeson8769
    @turdfurgeson8769 Рік тому

    I wish you were my boss, man.

  • @maxmorgan1218
    @maxmorgan1218 Рік тому

    I'd argue that you are an artist Tim, with code at least!

  • @leroyjenkinson4866
    @leroyjenkinson4866 Рік тому +2

    Show the cursor!

  • @DemienC.
    @DemienC. Рік тому

    You know who DOESN'T give not constructive critique a la "I hate it"?
    Other artists :)

  • @jeremyh6686
    @jeremyh6686 Рік тому

    Day I 4 of asking how fallout4s power armor compares to the original idea and vision of power armor from fallout also day 4 of saying please keep these videos coming they're great

  • @alexfrank5331
    @alexfrank5331 Рік тому

    Wait! You haven't covered all of development.
    You forgot our brothers/sisters in QA!!!!!! lmao

  • @warhawk7128
    @warhawk7128 Рік тому

    Tim, honestly a lot of these just sound like people being assholes. With few exceptions, all of these could be avoided by just having competent, thoughtful and upright people. The times where it can't be avoided due to misunderstandings wouldn't even need to be so severe by comparison.

  • @BespokeOnTrent
    @BespokeOnTrent Рік тому +2

    I make Archvis renders and product designs. We call it pixel fucking.
    My personal highlight was an email just saying, "This is wrong".

    • @mina86
      @mina86 Рік тому +2

      Well, have you tried making a render which wasn’t wrong?

    • @BespokeOnTrent
      @BespokeOnTrent Рік тому

      ​@@mina86There are people out there that would say I haven't 😂

    • @MotorbreathChannel
      @MotorbreathChannel Рік тому +1

      Well I will let you know that I personally think that pixel fucking is in fact wrong!
      For multiple reasons!

  • @coffeebreakhero3743
    @coffeebreakhero3743 Рік тому

    On the other side I would say that producing constructive criticism takes effort, which I usually only bother putting when I think that:
    1. my opinion has value (usually it doesn't)
    2. it will be considered
    As a player I often just say "I don't like this" because I don't expect anybody to read my youtube comment essay and make something of it, you know?
    why am I writing this comment then?

  • @kuba_wasikowski
    @kuba_wasikowski Рік тому +2

    Hi Tim, can You give Your opinion how AI wil affect gaming for code and images, models etc generation? Thank You

  • @ognjenfilipovic2851
    @ognjenfilipovic2851 Рік тому

    I only have "problem" with cartoon art style . I simply dont like it in any game.

  • @Spalthersaar
    @Spalthersaar 8 місяців тому

    I am no Fan of new games.
    I llllove oldfashioned, good and fun games, withbnit the best graphics.
    But therefore tons of Love in the Detail and Story and litte gimmics that make me, think, laugh, cry, whatsoever.

  • @32768hertz
    @32768hertz Рік тому +2

    You sometimes talk about your color blindness, many games have one or many settings for color blind mode (I assume is different kind of color blindness). I want to know one thing... that crap is working for you? or is just some legal box check that publishers must have, in order to sell the games in EU?
    If those mode work, they really restore colors completely in your eyes? 🎨

    • @krellend20
      @krellend20 Рік тому +4

      The point of colour-blind modes isn't to "restore colours" for colour blind people. It's to convey the same information the colours convey to folks with full colour sight.

    • @thebigvlad
      @thebigvlad Рік тому +2

      You... actually think that 'color blind' mode is just a checkbox that actually has no function, but is just there for some kind of legal reason? You... actually believe this? As stated already, the point isn't to "restore colors".

    • @kaptenteo
      @kaptenteo Рік тому +1

      This has to be a joke...

    • @32768hertz
      @32768hertz Рік тому +2

      @@krellend20 I understand, thanks

    • @32768hertz
      @32768hertz Рік тому +1

      @@thebigvlad st.fu

  • @mylesaustinleetaylor2000
    @mylesaustinleetaylor2000 8 місяців тому

    Damn, this really hit home for me. Especially 4:35 - 5:10. I do art commissions, logos, etc for clients, and it's always an uphill battle to get what they want. I always make a point to my clients to make it as clear as possible from the get-go as to what they want, but that seems to fail as well.

  • @jcarno64
    @jcarno64 Рік тому +1

    Hi Tim.