Honestly if I were to shoot out my factory M77 22" stainless barrel I would purchase a 24" stainless fluted barrel in a 1:8.5 twist and never look back. 130gr to 175gr projectiles would make the 270 Win a much more versatile if not the quintessential long range medium to large game hammer considering the performance potential and magazine capacity.
I did a similar thing, shot out my 270, built a 1:9 270 AI, largest bullet I can use is 165 ABLR, I usually use a 140 gr hammer hunter. Great all around lower 48 rifle.
I base my purchasing decisions largely on availability and cost of ammo, ideally the sort of stuff you can buy at any retailer down to the mini mart in small towns. In Virginia that’s .308, .30-06, .270, .223, 9mm, .45 auto, maybe .40 Cal and .30-30, possibly a few others. No one needs a magnum around here. What would it be up there?
I knew a couple of guys that worked at Ultra Light Arms when they were still in WV. After a certain amount of time they were given a rifle as a gift. Sounded like a great company to work for and I know their rifles were incredible.
The Nosler Partition is the perfect bullet for all situations other than shooting past 500-600 yards. Its among the best penetrating bullets out there but it also expands violently.
I have used the 338 partition in 210 and 225 gr. For everything from Alaska brown bear and moose to antelope. Performance was ALWAYS PERFECT !! Groups ran one inch or less. 👍👍
@@rogerramjet7567, I like the 200 gr Partition in the 300 Win Mag and the 130 gr Partition in the 270. I don’t get into all the high BC hoopla these days.
270 Winchester: Its taken 11 months, but my 1:8 twist .277 barrel is 'in the mail' and its getting used to upgrade my old 270 Winchester, not for some super-duper-wonder Mag. Nosler 165 ABLR and 170 Sierra's on the shelf waiting for the rifle. In reference to the .25s, check out the 25 Sherman Short and the Sierra 133gr (I think) .257 bullets. The train has left the station Ron, you and I just need to catch up.
@@allen4758 I have. My next to last mule deer buck and a Wyoming antelope were taken with a 6.5 130gr and 25 cal 115gr VLD-H's respectively. Both were in open country, but for elk I prefer a bullet that has the possibility of having an exit so they might leak out both sides. I have friends that have used Bergers on elk and I've seen their videos with bulls dropping in their tracks, but personally I prefer controlled expansion on the big stuff. The old Nosler Partitions have served me well on Alaska moose and Brown bears, so I'm confident with them. Because I can, I tailor the gun/load/bullet to the specific hunt, which lets me try lots of different bullets. Thanks.
@@johnoltrogge6333 I have 2 boxes of 7mm partitions to load up iv been saving for a special occasion,, maybe one day I'll make it out to the big country and use em ,, all we have here are deer and black bear
@@allen4758 You won't be disappointed with their performance. Sometime we have to push ourselves to make things happen, but time flies, so you'll thank yourself for the memories when you are older. Good luck!!
fair point on the neck meat and cwd definitely wanna be careful and cook thoroughly. But also, side note on neck meat my main point that I came here to type was about grocery store bought pork neck bones. Which I have discovered as a fantastic low-prices alternative during the recent hyper inflationary times of the past two years. I mean fantastic! Yes and I use it in stews. I am curious if I harvested a wild hog and had it processed if it would be as good. Have always heard wild hog is fantastic and better than farm raised pork but it has been so long since I had wild hog pork that I can’t remember.
A year late but titanium barrels have been tried, but suffer from a galling issue. When a bullet travels down the barrel under pressure, it does cause the barrel to expand slightly, but only momentarily. The problem with titanium is its tendency to remain expanded.
The cool thing about surplus Swedish Mausers is that 1) they VERY well made and 2) from that start they were barrelled with a 1:87 twist so they can stabilize just about anything the 6.5 CR can handle. The issue with factory ammo is that it is fairly low pressure but it can be handloaed to some truly spectacular results
Hey Ron , I built a 6 x 284 about 25 years ago. It shot well but the throat only lasted about 800 rounds. As you say there is a price to pay for very high velocity !
hi i am totally uneducated on these type of things but love watching these type of videos to learn stuff. So… what are the factors that would increase the barrel life of a super high velocity caliber like the one you built to say… theoretically, like increase it to the barrel life of a military issue m4? Ceterus paribus, that is, holding all other factors of the gun you built equal?
@@nozrep If you are primarily concerned with barrel life just shoot 2 or 3 shot groups and let the barrel completely cool before shooting another group . Not much fun but it will maximize barrel life . In a hunting rifle doing that can make it last a lifetime . I was using the 6 x 284 for prairie dog shooting and over heated the barrel several times and burned the throat out early .
Titamium barrels are awesome, strong, light, etc. Check Johann Fanzoj both Mauser 98 and Kipplauf single shot ALL TITAMIUM BARREL AND ACTION. Expensive but probably finest firearms made. Spectacular!
picked up a Rem 700 in 270 Winnie last year. According to the serial number it was made in 1980. It had a 12X Fixed Leupold scope on it. I replaced the bases, found something that lacquered up over the years underneath them, used my fingernail to scratch it off. Replaced the mounts with a Warne Picatinny Rail, Leupold rings, and a VX3HD 3.5-10x. After sight in I let the rifle cool for an hour, then shot a five shot group that could be covered with a nickel. As my cousin would say the Rem 700 has over the Win 70 “has a nice trigger and the safety makes sense”
Ron- once again great episode. I really appreciate how you deal with humility even when addressing topics that you have a great deal of knowledge about. On the topic of 25 caliber cartridges I would like to add the 25 x 55AI wildcat I have developed (yes I know I am mixing metric and standard there.). It is essentially the 257 Roberts with much better brass availability. I also think the topic of a fast twist 270 Winchester is very fascinating. I chambered a standard 270 Winchester with a longer throat and an eight twist barrel last year and was able to successfully take my elk with it. I like the fact that I am able to shoot the efficient high ballistic coefficient projectiles with minimal recoil. I was shooting the 170 Berger projectile at 2840 fps. As an up-and-coming gun writer and content creator I would be deeply grateful for the opportunity to meet face-to-face at SHOT show if you’re planning on attending this year.
.270 was a no brainer for multiple generations. You could be absolutely in the dark on rifles and ballistics and choose a .270 Winchester based on barber shop and coffee shop talk and not be sorry. A lot of people did.
14:50 A couple of minutes on Google told me that titanium barrels have been experimented with, but they need either needed a ceramic lining or for a shotgun, which doesn't surprise me at all. Titanium is world famous for being both lighter and stronger than steel, but many forget it's also noticably softer than steel. Considering the barrel wear that happens every time a gun is fired, the barrel life of a titanium barrel without a steel core or ceramic lining would be a fraction that of a steel barrel (this is also why we don't see titanium knives, as they're too soft to stay as sharp compared to steel). Factor in carbon fibre barrel advancements in recent years and I find it highly unlikely we'll ever see any of the major barrel makers and gun manufacturers experimenting with titanium.
I would really like to see an episode where you talk about the appropriate bullets as they relate to shooting White-tail deer behind or through the shoulder. I prefer behind the shoulder, and have had great success with the 150 grain Remington core-lokt for behind the shoulder. I hate to ruin the shoulder meat. Thank you for your wise advice!
Ron, the problem with twisting a smaller bullet "to fast" is not stability but the possibility of bullets coming apart due to rpm. Thin walled varmint bullets for example might experience this issue.
OMG! You just took me Waaay back Ron, with that comment about the customized pedals shaped like a barefoot footprint! I can remember getting a set for the Schwinn Stingray w/ the Banana Seat and drag-racing slick on the back as a kid!!! HaHA!
My first Remington 700 is a mid-seventies vintage Remington 700 BDL in 7mm Rem Mag. That rifle demonstrated vertical stringing associated with the barrel’s warming up after the first three shots. Glass bedding the action and first inch of the barrel cured the problem. Hornady’s 162 grain bullets are basis of the best recipe in that Model 700 7mm Rem Mag. Newer 700s (a VLS in .243 Win, a BDL in .30-’06, and a CDL in .35 Whelen) seem not to have that issue, but it might only be that the newer rifles have never been tested in humid tropical conditions. If the first three shots are all that are ever expected to be shot with real intent, there may be no reason to fix something that isn’t broken.
Thanks for a great video, Ron. I have always had tremendous life with my 270 rifles. They have all been sub moa out to 300 yd and they have put a lot of me in my freezer. I'm older now, so I carry an ultralight sporter and it shoots like a house of fire! Be well and God bless
Thanks Jeff. Great to hear of your lifelong success and enjoyment of your 270s. A hunter could run the table around the world with that one. If only they'd fund the adventure for us.
15:30; random side note Fishing Tackle Unlimited in my city sells an all titanium pair of fishinf pliers. Mind blown when I discovered them! Hahah because titanium does not rust even in salt water coastal applications. But durnit that was 200 dollar set of fishing pliers! Don’t lose them in the water!😅
the problem with the 22/284 is the extreme stress put on the bullets and long barrel but what a ride . my heart thump finally stopped on a fast twist 220 swift .
There was a company that tryed making all titaim revolver in .357 mag and it never worked well your right about Gailing barrel . Was around late 80's if memory suits
I’d like to build a custom barrel around a 6.8 western for precision shooting. I was building a 270 win fast twist a long time ago trying to shoot heavies. I’m a huge 270win fan. I sold all my guns and reloading stuff like a moron years back. I might get back into it but this time a 6.8 western custom build for benchrest/ long range. Although shooting that much powder benchrest is kind of annoying after a while. Shaking the mountains.
From what I could find titanium will galvanize from copper, and doesn't have the greatest work hardening(becomes brittle). Might react to powders if too hot. I got all this from Google, so I'm basically an expert on the subject.
Titanium Barrels: Titanium doea not resist errosion or flame cutting as well as steel. You see this even at revolver pressures, where steel barrel liners and anti-flame shields above the cylinder gap are the norm.
I was wondering about the UA-cam plaque behind you Ron. I was wondering if it was a three shot group or just a single hole. Thank you for explaining it. For your 300k subscribers, go with a classic like yourself, use a 300 H&H. Thank you for the knowledge you bring to these discussions.
The only bad things about a new cartridge is that you could pay more for ammo and have availabllity issues. But the worst thing is some of them become obsolete if they they’re not popular enough.
Titanium has been used for barrels, however, it does not machine well and requires a steel liner (or bore). Ordnance Grade steel alloys are special made giving them the proper qualities needed for firearms use; this stuff was carefully thought out a long time ago and I don't see anything new coming down the pipe anytime soon.
Believe it or not, the 25s are getting more common in the PRS circuit. There are several competitors that run a 25 cm, 25 Dasher or 25 GT. Obviously all wildcats but they do make dies for them.
Neck meat is great in the crock pot, you can fillet it off in one big slab then soak it in some seasoning for a few days. Roll up some pork, garlic, onion and herbs and tie that with some string, stick it in the crock pot overnight. I also use that powdered onion soup mix, I sprinkle that on both the pork and venison before wrapping it all up. Food of the Gods.
Fast twist rifles offer very little to the hunter in my opinion. How far do we need to shoot at game animals? I was a sucker for long range magnum cartridges back in the 60s and 70s . Started with a 270 then went to the 7mm Rem mag . Hunted wit it for years. I always have been a hand loader that loaded to the max. Seen the pit falls of short case life and expenses if you shoot often and develop hand loads . Long story short , I worked my way down to the boring 30-06. The benchmark of all high power cartridges. It is Goldie Locks for me and makes life simple. I own many other firearms for fun but the old trusty rusty 06 gets the job done for me. It is actually more gun than needed for deer. If I lived and hunted in western elk country, I might would have a different opinion. To each his own. The danged old 06 is just easy to deal with. 300 to 400 yards is as far as I possibly would ever want to shoot a critter.
.25 is one of my favorite calibers. I want to neck a 6.5 prc down to .25 and put it in a 1-8” twist and shoot 130 - 140gr. That would be high bc and have some serious zip
The 6.5-284 is one of my favorite Target rounds it is overboard but I wouldn't say much more overboard than my 270 Ackley improved I would think 1500 shots on a barrel would be reasonable
Re: CWD here in SW Sask. it is in deer, elk and moose. According to Vets, you can minimize your chances even more by selecting younger animals since CWD develops in older animals and by avoiding spinal fluid.
CWD acts like an infection, passed between animals by contact with contaminated body fluids. Older animals have just more chances to get contaminated by the disease. Once you have the prions, there is no cure and no recovery.
If you have ever tested high and low velocity impacts of #1 Terminal Assent, #2 Swift Sirroco, #3 Trophy Bonded also from Federal you might be impressed with their ability to expand reliably down below 2000 fps.
@Uncle Ron One reason why we see new cartridges is 'perceived obsolescence', as you say it is about sales. The 6.8 Western probably is better than a .270, but the deer can't tell. If the 6.8 was about 70 years ago nobody would invent the .270 would they? Just the difference doesn't matter if you already have an accurate gun 🤷 if I had a rifle that really shot well, from 6.5 to 7.62 and I liked the way it fit and felt, I'd stick with it because new rifle won't make you better or find you more game. 🤷
Its been a while since I read it but "Coyotes : Biology, Behavior and Management" by Marc Bekoff, and it clearly states coyotes do in fact breed once a year. It also says that the record litter size of a coyote pair was 18 if I remember right, which is a hell of a litter. It is a very interesting book if anyone out there wants to really learn about coyote taxonomy, behavior, and management techniques of the early 1900's as well as some of the shenanigans of the WY fish and game department back in the day. It is kind of a dry read tho and probably only for people who geek out on the types of things you would learn in a full fledged college class.
Commenting on the possibility of Titanium barrels, I can't be certain that a full Titanium or Titanium alloy barrel is not possible but I would think it is more likely the barrels would remain traditional stainless or CMV steels and might be coated with a Titanium composite similar to the Titanium Nitride applied to bolts and other gun parts. TiNi is applied to some pistol barrels but I do not know if it can also be applied to rifle barrels.
In reference to titanium barrels, I don't know of any rifles that have done it and I suspect you're right that it doesn't lend itself well to the application. Longthorne Shotguns in the UK did, however, experiment with titanium barrels on one of their over/under shotguns. They have a good video about the whole process on youtube
Great job Ron! The more options the better. If a person goes to another country that's not a democratic republic with capitalism, anyone will see how many choices there will be. Very few...
I have often wondered if a carbide insert in the chamber and throat area then machine the chamber with precision EDM would help give additional life to a barrel burning caliber ... any thoughts on this idea ...? I know that this would have been not possible until electro discharge machining made precision machining of tungsten carbide a thing but has the technology been used in firearms ... ?
tungsten carbide insert- heat resistant and hardness for wear. Make it easily replaceable and with rifiling. All that would be required is head spacing, a go no-go gauge. Like a tikka barrel.
15:30; oh man yah how cool would a titanium barrel be?!?! And wooooo weeee expensive expensive! Considering the lesser availability yet superior hardness and corrosion resistance of titanium. Am by no means any sort of metallurgist nor expert but I personally opine that it would be totally cool if someone with the “money to spend” made a titanium barrel or discovered which titanium alloy would be able to add enough flexibility to the titantium to make it doable. Have heard that titanium although superior in many ways will also become brittle if stressed beyond its strength too too much. Its strength which is stronger than steel if memory serves.
284 win or 6.5-284 seem to be the best balance between efficiency, barrel life, accuracy, and energy to me. That being said, I have an Ackley and a Creedmoor.
While I do agree with you I think the difference is going to be quite small. Probably quite a bit less than difference in cartridge velocity variations in a box of ammo. Being the main reason for the faster twist rate is to shoot longer higher BC bullets, the shooter is already figuring to lose a little velocity from the heavier bullets. I've got a couple AR 15s in 5.56 with different twist rate barrels of which I've never really noticed a different velocities so again while I agree with you I believe the difference is very minimal.
I have watched a lot of your videos, and you provide a lot of information and insight. I have learned a lot and just want to say thank you, and please keep them coming. I do have a couple of questions, how does the 17 Hornet compares with the 204 Ruger. I am very interested in getting into predator hunting and have heard many good things about both calibers, I have seen a few of your videos on the 204, but I haven't seen any on the 17. Have I just missed the videos on the 17 or haven't done any on this caliber yet? Also, I was wondering how I can get a copy of your book on predator hunting. Again, thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us, and I look forward to watching more of your videos and podcasts.
Todd, I have just one copy of the predator book left! Go to my website ronspomeroutdoors.com and in the comment section send me your contact info. I'll save the book until I hear from you. As for the 17 Hornet, I consider it appreciably less effective then the 204 Ruger on coyotes . Were I wanting to take predators with a 17, I'd run the 17 Fireball or, more likely, 17 Remington.
Hey, Ron! I have been wanting to get in to long range target shooting with my 22wmr! And I'm looking for tips and the best bullets with a high BC and high velocity for long range shots!
had hendershot ammo load up some 225 grain wood leigh bulets for a 338rum for bear protection on my property, was this a good load and bullet design for this application?
Doesn't titanium friction weld? I believe this is a consideration for titanium parts in cars. When you have two titanium surfaces rubbing against eachother, you run the risk of them welding together. I don't know if this has the same effect with titanium on other metals, but if it does that definitely would be a problem. Addition: I'd just spoken to a friend of mine who knows a thing or two about metallurgy and is a gunsmith; he tells me that flame cutting would be a serious concern, so goodbye barrel life.
Couldn’t agree more on the straight-walls. Need something in .40/10mm, either based on the 6.8spc/lengthened 10mm or the 6.5 grendel family of cases. More than a 350 legend, less than a 450 bushmaster
I would love to see more straight walled cartridges as well. Now for the 350 legend; it compares similarly to the 30-30 for performance and that is an old standby for deer hunting. I think many have underestimated the 350 legend. But I would love even more options as you had said.
Ron I was under impression COAL would be too long with the longer high BC bullets in the old 270 so that's why they went with a new chamber, cartridge etc. For the 6.8 western?
Also , a company called Drake, they make a titanium Barrel for an AR I believe and I think it's chambered in 308 but I won't swear to that. Also there's another company that made a titanium Barrel that was line with the ceramic of some sort. But there's some people out there trying to apply titanium to Barrel design so there's some out there and as far as how successful they've been I can't really say but like anything given enough time it might very well become the next hot thing for everyone to run out and buy LOL
What's the difference between a .338 Lapua? and a .338 Winchester? Are the interchangeable? I was looking into a .338 Lapua chambered, long range targets competition-hunting rifle. Ruger's RPC is available in .338 Lapua. I've heard good & bad about that bolt action Ruger Precession Rifle. I heard a few years ago its production at Ruger was moved from the Precession shop at Ruger over to the standard production area which means there's less QC and less hand tweaking of the key features of the rifle. If this Ruger has become a cheaply made rifle here in 2022, what rifle in thec1500$ to 2000$ dollar range? Thanks... love your Channel. Please answer these things on your next q&a
Nope. Spinning it faster does not make it less stablised otherwise there would be no point in having twist at all. The problem is if you spin a less robust constructed bullet too fast (velocity x twist to get rpm) the centripetal force if the spin will de-laminate the bullet causing deformation and even disintegration. I have no idea where this old wives tale of "overstablisation" came from but has nothing to do with science or even logic.
I'd bet money that Shaw barrels and rifles would twist ya one up in 270win. or any caliber. My 280 rem blew everyone away with a deadeye bullseye one shot winner takes all at 300 yards. The range was angry that day my friend with 20 stations doubled or tripled up. For a brief moment I was a sniper.
Titanium is expensive and hard to work with. I'm sure it's possible but your base material would cost several times more and it would be more expensive to machine. It also responds different to heat and heat treatment would be different and R&D would be needed to make it perform to it's best capability.
My question 270 related is, why did winchester/Browning design a new cartridge in the 6.8 western, then not make enough rifles to keep up with demand? Particularly winchester. I don't care to try out a cartridge by buying a rifle upwards of 1k to find I don't care for it. The xpr line has 3 really nice looking rifles that are seriously hard to find online let alone in stores. Highly frustrating.
IMO, most of the "fear" of the new is that the old is being replaced, rather than supplanted. Those that rely on factory ammunition can point to the dearth of "classic" ammo (270 Win, 243 Win, 7mm-08, 25-06Rem) when the 6.5 CM, and the WSMs appeared...every rifle and every box of ammo seemed to only for the "new" cartridges, making them feel they would be forced to make their old reliable tool a piece of wall art and HAVE to get a new rifle. The subsequent dearth of ALL ammo should have alleviated some of that trepidation, but ushered in new. Do we "need" the PRCs and Creedmoors? On the whole, probably not, but need and want do not belong in the same box. We WANT to shoot, and drive, and eat, and drink, and live where we WANT. What we NEED is fewer people telling us what we need and more letting us do what we want(within reason). Some folks want a new car every year, some like their 20+ year old car, and some folks have warehouses/garages full of cars. As long as they can flow with the traffic, nobody should say a word.
The benefits of titanium is weight. Titanium is 45% lighter than steel, while being just as strong. Titanium is also naturally corrosion resistant. You can really abuse titanium and it won't rust or corrode. So it's not a strength or durability component, but rather weight and corrosion resistance. Titanium is technically stronger in some ways, but it also has worse tensile strength than steel. It evens out to being basically the same strength as steel. A for instance being, if the barreled action of a typical bolt action weighs, let's say, 5lbs made of steel, that barreled action would weigh just 2.75lbs if made of titanium.
I know with titanium suppressors you experience erosion with just hot gasses passing through them at much higher rates then stainless steel suppressors. So if you was to make a titanium barrel where you get the hottest of hot gasses burning all the way down it and spinning up a bullet by its rifling at really high speeds you'd burn the barrel out in no time flat. They might not be able to handle the pressures either... That would be my guess as to why you don't see them...
Titanium has a very low thermal conductivity and is twice as friction resistant as steel. Which is why it’s used for brake rotors on race cars and for plating on high speed aircrafts. I’m guessing the main reason why you don’t see it used in rifle barrel is the sheer cost of milling equipment needed to get started doing it. And the cost of the titanium itself. Be hard to sell when you buy a carbon fiber barrel where the cost isn’t totally outrageous
Honestly if I were to shoot out my factory M77 22" stainless barrel I would purchase a 24" stainless fluted barrel in a 1:8.5 twist and never look back. 130gr to 175gr projectiles would make the 270 Win a much more versatile if not the quintessential long range medium to large game hammer considering the performance potential and magazine capacity.
I like the way you think!
Same. Try the hammer bullets in it. But atleast a 1 in 9 would be nice.
I've got a 270 and a 6.8 and love them both. Gotta say though, I think the 6.8 is my favorite of the two
I did a similar thing, shot out my 270, built a 1:9 270 AI, largest bullet I can use is 165 ABLR, I usually use a 140 gr hammer hunter. Great all around lower 48 rifle.
I love my .270 M77 Sporter. The 136 Terminal Ascent is dead on. Shot 3 rounds at 200 yards and only saw two holes, didn’t miss, just stacked them!
I use my 270 for absolutely everything here in Northern alberta canada 🇨🇦
I hunted Colorado elk with a couple guys from Ontario , both had 270’s.
I base my purchasing decisions largely on availability and cost of ammo, ideally the sort of stuff you can buy at any retailer down to the mini mart in small towns.
In Virginia that’s .308, .30-06, .270, .223, 9mm, .45 auto, maybe .40 Cal and .30-30, possibly a few others. No one needs a magnum around here.
What would it be up there?
What? No 338 Win Mag???
Just kidding.
You all still allowed to have a rifle geesh getting bad huh?
me too. moose, deer, antelope with my 270. Calgary home base
I knew a couple of guys that worked at Ultra Light Arms when they were still in WV. After a certain amount of time they were given a rifle as a gift. Sounded like a great company to work for and I know their rifles were incredible.
The Nosler Partition is the perfect bullet for all situations other than shooting past 500-600 yards. Its among the best penetrating bullets out there but it also expands violently.
I have used the 338 partition in 210 and 225 gr. For everything from Alaska brown bear and moose to antelope. Performance was ALWAYS PERFECT !! Groups ran one inch or less. 👍👍
@@rogerramjet7567, I like the 200 gr Partition in the 300 Win Mag and the 130 gr Partition in the 270. I don’t get into all the high BC hoopla these days.
270 Winchester: Its taken 11 months, but my 1:8 twist .277 barrel is 'in the mail' and its getting used to upgrade my old 270 Winchester, not for some super-duper-wonder Mag. Nosler 165 ABLR and 170 Sierra's on the shelf waiting for the rifle. In reference to the .25s, check out the 25 Sherman Short and the Sierra 133gr (I think) .257 bullets. The train has left the station Ron, you and I just need to catch up.
You ever try the Berger bullets?
@@allen4758 I have. My next to last mule deer buck and a Wyoming antelope were taken with a 6.5 130gr and 25 cal 115gr VLD-H's respectively. Both were in open country, but for elk I prefer a bullet that has the possibility of having an exit so they might leak out both sides. I have friends that have used Bergers on elk and I've seen their videos with bulls dropping in their tracks, but personally I prefer controlled expansion on the big stuff. The old Nosler Partitions have served me well on Alaska moose and Brown bears, so I'm confident with them. Because I can, I tailor the gun/load/bullet to the specific hunt, which lets me try lots of different bullets. Thanks.
@@johnoltrogge6333 I have 2 boxes of 7mm partitions to load up iv been saving for a special occasion,, maybe one day I'll make it out to the big country and use em ,, all we have here are deer and black bear
@@allen4758 You won't be disappointed with their performance. Sometime we have to push ourselves to make things happen, but time flies, so you'll thank yourself for the memories when you are older. Good luck!!
Hi Ron, my choice of 30 caliber would be the 30-30. Thanks for the great podcasts.
Ron, I have to say good job catching that fly!
now try with chopstix
fair point on the neck meat and cwd definitely wanna be careful and cook thoroughly. But also, side note on neck meat my main point that I came here to type was about grocery store bought pork neck bones. Which I have discovered as a fantastic low-prices alternative during the recent hyper inflationary times of the past two years. I mean fantastic! Yes and I use it in stews. I am curious if I harvested a wild hog and had it processed if it would be as good. Have always heard wild hog is fantastic and better than farm raised pork but it has been so long since I had wild hog pork that I can’t remember.
25 Creedmoor is growing in popularity, and 25/284 is seeing a resurgence. Preferred Barrels has 1-7.5 and 1-8 twists
Thanks for that info, tubbs. I wonder which new 25-cal. will go commercial first?
A year late but titanium barrels have been tried, but suffer from a galling issue. When a bullet travels down the barrel under pressure, it does cause the barrel to expand slightly, but only momentarily. The problem with titanium is its tendency to remain expanded.
The cool thing about surplus Swedish Mausers is that 1) they VERY well made and 2) from that start they were barrelled with a 1:87 twist so they can stabilize just about anything the 6.5 CR can handle. The issue with factory ammo is that it is fairly low pressure but it can be handloaed to some truly spectacular results
Hey Ron , I built a 6 x 284 about 25 years ago. It shot well but the throat only lasted about 800 rounds. As you say there is a price to pay for very high velocity !
hi i am totally uneducated on these type of things but love watching these type of videos to learn stuff. So… what are the factors that would increase the barrel life of a super high velocity caliber like the one you built to say… theoretically, like increase it to the barrel life of a military issue m4? Ceterus paribus, that is, holding all other factors of the gun you built equal?
@@nozrep If you are primarily concerned with barrel life just shoot 2 or 3 shot groups and let the barrel completely cool before shooting another group . Not much fun but it will maximize barrel life . In a hunting rifle doing that can make it last a lifetime . I was using the 6 x 284 for prairie dog shooting and over heated the barrel several times and burned the throat out early .
Titamium barrels are awesome, strong, light, etc. Check Johann Fanzoj both Mauser 98 and Kipplauf single shot ALL TITAMIUM BARREL AND ACTION. Expensive but probably finest firearms made. Spectacular!
My Papaw taught me about the first cleaning/second (true) break-in thing when I was just a boy, glad to see someone putting that out there for others.
picked up a Rem 700 in 270 Winnie last year. According to the serial number it was made in 1980. It had a 12X Fixed Leupold scope on it. I replaced the bases, found something that lacquered up over the years underneath them, used my fingernail to scratch it off. Replaced the mounts with a Warne Picatinny Rail, Leupold rings, and a VX3HD 3.5-10x. After sight in I let the rifle cool for an hour, then shot a five shot group that could be covered with a nickel. As my cousin would say the Rem 700 has over the Win 70 “has a nice trigger and the safety makes sense”
There are already quite a few people playing with the 25 creedmoor. Blackjack is making high bc bullets and Berger has one as well.
Yep 25 creedmoor will make power factor for NRL hunter also using 131 blackjacks, 135 bergers hybrid and 133 elite hunter.
Ron- once again great episode. I really appreciate how you deal with humility even when addressing topics that you have a great deal of knowledge about. On the topic of 25 caliber cartridges I would like to add the 25 x 55AI wildcat I have developed (yes I know I am mixing metric and standard there.). It is essentially the 257 Roberts with much better brass availability. I also think the topic of a fast twist 270 Winchester is very fascinating. I chambered a standard 270 Winchester with a longer throat and an eight twist barrel last year and was able to successfully take my elk with it. I like the fact that I am able to shoot the efficient high ballistic coefficient projectiles with minimal recoil. I was shooting the 170 Berger projectile at 2840 fps. As an up-and-coming gun writer and content creator I would be deeply grateful for the opportunity to meet face-to-face at SHOT show if you’re planning on attending this year.
Flag me down if you see me at SHOT, Marcus.
.270 was a no brainer for multiple generations. You could be absolutely in the dark on rifles and ballistics and choose a .270 Winchester based on barber shop and coffee shop talk and not be sorry. A lot of people did.
14:50 A couple of minutes on Google told me that titanium barrels have been experimented with, but they need either needed a ceramic lining or for a shotgun, which doesn't surprise me at all.
Titanium is world famous for being both lighter and stronger than steel, but many forget it's also noticably softer than steel. Considering the barrel wear that happens every time a gun is fired, the barrel life of a titanium barrel without a steel core or ceramic lining would be a fraction that of a steel barrel (this is also why we don't see titanium knives, as they're too soft to stay as sharp compared to steel).
Factor in carbon fibre barrel advancements in recent years and I find it highly unlikely we'll ever see any of the major barrel makers and gun manufacturers experimenting with titanium.
I would really like to see an episode where you talk about the appropriate bullets as they relate to shooting White-tail deer behind or through the shoulder. I prefer behind the shoulder, and have had great success with the 150 grain Remington core-lokt for behind the shoulder. I hate to ruin the shoulder meat. Thank you for your wise advice!
Ron, the problem with twisting a smaller bullet "to fast" is not stability but the possibility of bullets coming apart due to rpm. Thin walled varmint bullets for example might experience this issue.
The old 220 Swift was notorius for roasting the throats out of a barrel pretty fast
OMG! You just took me Waaay back Ron, with that comment about the customized pedals shaped like a barefoot footprint! I can remember getting a set for the Schwinn Stingray w/ the Banana Seat and drag-racing slick on the back as a kid!!! HaHA!
We were too cool back then, were we not?
My first Remington 700 is a mid-seventies vintage Remington 700 BDL in 7mm Rem Mag. That rifle demonstrated vertical stringing associated with the barrel’s warming up after the first three shots. Glass bedding the action and first inch of the barrel cured the problem. Hornady’s 162 grain bullets are basis of the best recipe in that Model 700 7mm Rem Mag. Newer 700s (a VLS in .243 Win, a BDL in .30-’06, and a CDL in .35 Whelen) seem not to have that issue, but it might only be that the newer rifles have never been tested in humid tropical conditions. If the first three shots are all that are ever expected to be shot with real intent, there may be no reason to fix something that isn’t broken.
Thanks for a great video, Ron. I have always had tremendous life with my 270 rifles. They have all been sub moa out to 300 yd and they have put a lot of me in my freezer. I'm older now, so I carry an ultralight sporter and it shoots like a house of fire! Be well and God bless
Thanks Jeff. Great to hear of your lifelong success and enjoyment of your 270s. A hunter could run the table around the world with that one. If only they'd fund the adventure for us.
Thanks😁. I'll second that!
15:30; random side note Fishing Tackle Unlimited in my city sells an all titanium pair of fishinf pliers. Mind blown when I discovered them! Hahah because titanium does not rust even in salt water coastal applications. But durnit that was 200 dollar set of fishing pliers! Don’t lose them in the water!😅
Hey Ron, my choice for shooting the plaque would be what else 30-06
@29:00 “Didn’t need a magnum for that one”
😂😂😂
the problem with the 22/284 is the extreme stress put on the bullets and long barrel but what a ride . my heart thump finally stopped on a fast twist 220 swift .
There was a company that tryed making all titaim revolver in .357 mag and it never worked well your right about Gailing barrel . Was around late 80's if memory suits
I’d like to build a custom barrel around a 6.8 western for precision shooting. I was building a 270 win fast twist a long time ago trying to shoot heavies. I’m a huge 270win fan. I sold all my guns and reloading stuff like a moron years back. I might get back into it but this time a 6.8 western custom build for benchrest/ long range. Although shooting that much powder benchrest is kind of annoying after a while. Shaking the mountains.
I love the idea 💡
Shoot it with a .300 H&H Ron, that will fit along with that Sporting Classic's cover. 😉
From what I could find titanium will galvanize from copper, and doesn't have the greatest work hardening(becomes brittle). Might react to powders if too hot. I got all this from Google, so I'm basically an expert on the subject.
Just listening to you makes me an expert
Titanium Barrels:
Titanium doea not resist errosion or flame cutting as well as steel. You see this even at revolver pressures, where steel barrel liners and anti-flame shields above the cylinder gap are the norm.
I was wondering about the UA-cam plaque behind you Ron. I was wondering if it was a three shot group or just a single hole. Thank you for explaining it. For your 300k subscribers, go with a classic like yourself, use a 300 H&H. Thank you for the knowledge you bring to these discussions.
300 win mag is my 30 cal choice
The only bad things about a new cartridge is that you could pay more for ammo and have availabllity issues. But the worst thing is some of them become obsolete if they they’re not popular enough.
I'm gonna subscribe to Sporting Classic. Seems like a good subscription. Thanks for sharing it.
Titanium has been used for barrels, however, it does not machine well and requires a steel liner (or bore). Ordnance Grade steel alloys are special made giving them the proper qualities needed for firearms use; this stuff was carefully thought out a long time ago and I don't see anything new coming down the pipe anytime soon.
Believe it or not, the 25s are getting more common in the PRS circuit. There are several competitors that run a 25 cm, 25 Dasher or 25 GT. Obviously all wildcats but they do make dies for them.
Neck meat is great in the crock pot, you can fillet it off in one big slab then soak it in some seasoning for a few days. Roll up some pork, garlic, onion and herbs and tie that with some string, stick it in the crock pot overnight. I also use that powdered onion soup mix, I sprinkle that on both the pork and venison before wrapping it all up. Food of the Gods.
Fast twist rifles offer very little to the hunter in my opinion. How far do we need to shoot at game animals? I was a sucker for long range magnum cartridges back in the 60s and 70s . Started with a 270 then went to the 7mm Rem mag . Hunted wit it for years. I always have been a hand loader that loaded to the max. Seen the pit falls of short case life and expenses if you shoot often and develop hand loads . Long story short , I worked my way down to the boring 30-06. The benchmark of all high power cartridges. It is Goldie Locks for me and makes life simple. I own many other firearms for fun but the old trusty rusty 06 gets the job done for me. It is actually more gun than needed for deer. If I lived and hunted in western elk country, I might would have a different opinion. To each his own. The danged old 06 is just easy to deal with. 300 to 400 yards is as far as I possibly would ever want to shoot a critter.
Fast twist makes a .270 a better elk gun while still being a great deer gun.
Sounds like the old around the camp fire talk Most often someone gets up and goes to bed and its over and on to something new
.25 is one of my favorite calibers. I want to neck a 6.5 prc down to .25 and put it in a 1-8” twist and shoot 130 - 140gr. That would be high bc and have some serious zip
The 6.5-284 is one of my favorite Target rounds it is overboard but I wouldn't say much more overboard than my 270 Ackley improved I would think 1500 shots on a barrel would be reasonable
6.5 284 is a wonderful hunting cartridge have 3 love the 284 also
Re: CWD here in SW Sask. it is in deer, elk and moose. According to Vets, you can minimize your chances even more by selecting younger animals since CWD develops in older animals and by avoiding spinal fluid.
CWD acts like an infection, passed between animals by contact with contaminated body fluids. Older animals have just more chances to get contaminated by the disease.
Once you have the prions, there is no cure and no recovery.
In shotguns, with the eye being the rear sight, consistent cheek weld is very important, more so than rifles.
If you have ever tested high and low velocity impacts of #1 Terminal Assent, #2 Swift Sirroco, #3 Trophy Bonded also from Federal you might be impressed with their ability to expand reliably down below 2000 fps.
@Uncle Ron
One reason why we see new cartridges is 'perceived obsolescence', as you say it is about sales.
The 6.8 Western probably is better than a .270, but the deer can't tell. If the 6.8 was about 70 years ago nobody would invent the .270 would they?
Just the difference doesn't matter if you already have an accurate gun 🤷 if I had a rifle that really shot well, from 6.5 to 7.62 and I liked the way it fit and felt, I'd stick with it because new rifle won't make you better or find you more game. 🤷
All the new ones are jut fun to talk about.
I shoot a 25 Creedmoor. 24” Brux 1-7, 115gr Berger Hunters @ 3172 fps on top of H-4350. SD-2.2/ES- 4. Incredibly accurate. Slays mule deer.
Its been a while since I read it but "Coyotes : Biology, Behavior and Management" by Marc Bekoff, and it clearly states coyotes do in fact breed once a year. It also says that the record litter size of a coyote pair was 18 if I remember right, which is a hell of a litter. It is a very interesting book if anyone out there wants to really learn about coyote taxonomy, behavior, and management techniques of the early 1900's as well as some of the shenanigans of the WY fish and game department back in the day. It is kind of a dry read tho and probably only for people who geek out on the types of things you would learn in a full fledged college class.
Commenting on the possibility of Titanium barrels, I can't be certain that a full Titanium or Titanium alloy barrel is not possible but I would think it is more likely the barrels would remain traditional stainless or CMV steels and might be coated with a Titanium composite similar to the Titanium Nitride applied to bolts and other gun parts. TiNi is applied to some pistol barrels but I do not know if it can also be applied to rifle barrels.
Right on
I like the 30.06 because the wide reload charts.
No I don't reload.
I don’t know why, but i love this comment.
300 win-mag!
I personally think When You Reach 300,000 subscribers there's nothing more appropriate than a 300 Win Mag just my opinion
In reference to titanium barrels, I don't know of any rifles that have done it and I suspect you're right that it doesn't lend itself well to the application. Longthorne Shotguns in the UK did, however, experiment with titanium barrels on one of their over/under shotguns. They have a good video about the whole process on youtube
Great video Gabe!
Longthorne made a once off shotgun out of titanium. Interesting video on TGS Outdoors.
Don't think it is one-off. You want one they will make you one.
Great job Ron! The more options the better. If a person goes to another country that's not a democratic republic with capitalism, anyone will see how many choices there will be. Very few...
I have often wondered if a carbide insert in the chamber and throat area then machine the chamber with precision EDM would help give additional life to a barrel burning caliber ... any thoughts on this idea ...? I know that this would have been not possible until electro discharge machining made precision machining of tungsten carbide a thing but has the technology been used in firearms ... ?
tungsten carbide insert- heat resistant and hardness for wear. Make it easily replaceable and with rifiling. All that would be required is head spacing, a go no-go gauge. Like a tikka barrel.
15:30; oh man yah how cool would a titanium barrel be?!?! And wooooo weeee expensive expensive! Considering the lesser availability yet superior hardness and corrosion resistance of titanium. Am by no means any sort of metallurgist nor expert but I personally opine that it would be totally cool if someone with the “money to spend” made a titanium barrel or discovered which titanium alloy would be able to add enough flexibility to the titantium to make it doable. Have heard that titanium although superior in many ways will also become brittle if stressed beyond its strength too too much. Its strength which is stronger than steel if memory serves.
284 win or 6.5-284 seem to be the best balance between efficiency, barrel life, accuracy, and energy to me. That being said, I have an Ackley and a Creedmoor.
I just purchased a 1961 model 88 in 308, can't wait to shoot it, mounting a new scope on it before I do.
My uncle has 2 243's and 308 in winchester 88. Neat guns.
All else being equal, a faster-twist barrel restricts the movement of a bullet down the bore, therefore reducing velocity.
While I do agree with you I think the difference is going to be quite small. Probably quite a bit less than difference in cartridge velocity variations in a box of ammo. Being the main reason for the faster twist rate is to shoot longer higher BC bullets, the shooter is already figuring to lose a little velocity from the heavier bullets. I've got a couple AR 15s in 5.56 with different twist rate barrels of which I've never really noticed a different velocities so again while I agree with you I believe the difference is very minimal.
Perhaps the next great caliber will be the NATO 6.8 mm /277 Fury?
Definitely something high pressure.
I have watched a lot of your videos, and you provide a lot of information and insight. I have learned a lot and just want to say thank you, and please keep them coming. I do have a couple of questions, how does the 17 Hornet compares with the 204 Ruger. I am very interested in getting into predator hunting and have heard many good things about both calibers, I have seen a few of your videos on the 204, but I haven't seen any on the 17. Have I just missed the videos on the 17 or haven't done any on this caliber yet? Also, I was wondering how I can get a copy of your book on predator hunting. Again, thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us, and I look forward to watching more of your videos and podcasts.
Todd, I have just one copy of the predator book left! Go to my website ronspomeroutdoors.com and in the comment section send me your contact info. I'll save the book until I hear from you. As for the 17 Hornet, I consider it appreciably less effective then the 204 Ruger on coyotes . Were I wanting to take predators with a 17, I'd run the 17 Fireball or, more likely, 17 Remington.
Hey, Ron! I have been wanting to get in to long range target shooting with my 22wmr! And I'm looking for tips and the best bullets with a high BC and high velocity for long range shots!
had hendershot ammo load up some 225 grain wood leigh bulets for a 338rum for bear protection on my property, was this a good load and bullet design for this application?
If that doesn’t take care of a bear, I am going to say, it was just your time.
I get more excited about advancements in bullet construction and design rather than new chamberings.
I'm weird. I know.
Not weird. Smart.
200,000 is your reward!
Doesn't titanium friction weld? I believe this is a consideration for titanium parts in cars. When you have two titanium surfaces rubbing against eachother, you run the risk of them welding together. I don't know if this has the same effect with titanium on other metals, but if it does that definitely would be a problem.
Addition: I'd just spoken to a friend of mine who knows a thing or two about metallurgy and is a gunsmith; he tells me that flame cutting would be a serious concern, so goodbye barrel life.
Couldn’t agree more on the straight-walls. Need something in .40/10mm, either based on the 6.8spc/lengthened 10mm or the 6.5 grendel family of cases. More than a 350 legend, less than a 450 bushmaster
I would love to see more straight walled cartridges as well. Now for the 350 legend; it compares similarly to the 30-30 for performance and that is an old standby for deer hunting. I think many have underestimated the 350 legend. But I would love even more options as you had said.
My vote for 30 cal why not 30/30 win appropriate.
I wish I could find a faster twist 270. Still a build I want to do. 1 in 8.5 or atleast 1 in 9
I hear Browning is now offering 270 Win. with 1:8 twist barrels! Remington is supposed to soon.
@Ron Spomer Outdoors thank you. Also thanks for turning your viewers on to hammer bullets. They work great.
Brain burp? Cerebral flatulence! That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!
Twist her right pushes the round spinning close wise and that tends to pull the round to right .
22/284 doesn't offer any more than a 22/06 or a 224 Weatherby Magnum, which is basically a belted 30/06 case.
300 AAC Blackout!
Ron I was under impression COAL would be too long with the longer high BC bullets in the old 270 so that's why they went with a new chamber, cartridge etc. For the 6.8 western?
In addition to twist rate.
Also , a company called Drake, they make a titanium Barrel for an AR I believe and I think it's chambered in 308 but I won't swear to that. Also there's another company that made a titanium Barrel that was line with the ceramic of some sort. But there's some people out there trying to apply titanium to Barrel design so there's some out there and as far as how successful they've been I can't really say but like anything given enough time it might very well become the next hot thing for everyone to run out and buy LOL
What's the difference between a .338 Lapua? and a .338 Winchester? Are the interchangeable?
I was looking into a .338 Lapua chambered, long range targets competition-hunting rifle.
Ruger's RPC is available in .338 Lapua. I've heard good & bad about that bolt action Ruger Precession Rifle. I heard a few years ago its production at Ruger was moved from the Precession shop at Ruger over to the standard production area which means there's less QC and less hand tweaking of the key features of the rifle.
If this Ruger has become a cheaply made rifle here in 2022, what rifle in thec1500$ to 2000$ dollar range?
Thanks... love your Channel. Please answer these things on your next q&a
With a 1 in 8.5 twist barrel and a 164-173 grain bullets wouldn’t both rifle and ammo manufacturers have a new product to sell in 270 Winchester?
6.8 getting no support from other companies for loading or rifles either.
If you increase twist rate you increase the possibility to destabilizing the bullet if its not perfectly concentric in a shorter bullet
Nope. Spinning it faster does not make it less stablised otherwise there would be no point in having twist at all. The problem is if you spin a less robust constructed bullet too fast (velocity x twist to get rpm) the centripetal force if the spin will de-laminate the bullet causing deformation and even disintegration.
I have no idea where this old wives tale of "overstablisation" came from but has nothing to do with science or even logic.
I'd bet money that Shaw barrels and rifles would twist ya one up in 270win. or any caliber. My 280 rem blew everyone away with a deadeye bullseye one shot winner takes all at 300 yards. The range was angry that day my friend with 20 stations doubled or tripled up. For a brief moment I was a sniper.
I actually remember that issue.
great vid. its gotta be the legend! 06!
Titanium shotgun barrels are a thing. Longngthorn out of England makes some beautiful guns.
Titanium is expensive and hard to work with. I'm sure it's possible but your base material would cost several times more and it would be more expensive to machine. It also responds different to heat and heat treatment would be different and R&D would be needed to make it perform to it's best capability.
My question 270 related is, why did winchester/Browning design a new cartridge in the 6.8 western, then not make enough rifles to keep up with demand? Particularly winchester. I don't care to try out a cartridge by buying a rifle upwards of 1k to find I don't care for it. The xpr line has 3 really nice looking rifles that are seriously hard to find online let alone in stores. Highly frustrating.
IMO, most of the "fear" of the new is that the old is being replaced, rather than supplanted. Those that rely on factory ammunition can point to the dearth of "classic" ammo (270 Win, 243 Win, 7mm-08, 25-06Rem) when the 6.5 CM, and the WSMs appeared...every rifle and every box of ammo seemed to only for the "new" cartridges, making them feel they would be forced to make their old reliable tool a piece of wall art and HAVE to get a new rifle. The subsequent dearth of ALL ammo should have alleviated some of that trepidation, but ushered in new.
Do we "need" the PRCs and Creedmoors? On the whole, probably not, but need and want do not belong in the same box. We WANT to shoot, and drive, and eat, and drink, and live where we WANT. What we NEED is fewer people telling us what we need and more letting us do what we want(within reason). Some folks want a new car every year, some like their 20+ year old car, and some folks have warehouses/garages full of cars. As long as they can flow with the traffic, nobody should say a word.
The benefits of titanium is weight. Titanium is 45% lighter than steel, while being just as strong. Titanium is also naturally corrosion resistant. You can really abuse titanium and it won't rust or corrode. So it's not a strength or durability component, but rather weight and corrosion resistance. Titanium is technically stronger in some ways, but it also has worse tensile strength than steel. It evens out to being basically the same strength as steel.
A for instance being, if the barreled action of a typical bolt action weighs, let's say, 5lbs made of steel, that barreled action would weigh just 2.75lbs if made of titanium.
I'v switched to Barns for my 06/270 .What's your experience ?
30.06 please.
It’s a classic as you are too😅 06
Use the 30-30, a true classic
There is 25creedmore in wildcat
At 300,000 you need to shoot the plauqe with your Winchester 94 30-30. In honor of your first deer rifle you bought.
Good idea, Caleb! Thanks. We'll see what others suggest, but right now I like this idea!
I know with titanium suppressors you experience erosion with just hot gasses passing through them at much higher rates then stainless steel suppressors. So if you was to make a titanium barrel where you get the hottest of hot gasses burning all the way down it and spinning up a bullet by its rifling at really high speeds you'd burn the barrel out in no time flat. They might not be able to handle the pressures either... That would be my guess as to why you don't see them...
Titanium has a very low thermal conductivity and is twice as friction resistant as steel. Which is why it’s used for brake rotors on race cars and for plating on high speed aircrafts. I’m guessing the main reason why you don’t see it used in rifle barrel is the sheer cost of milling equipment needed to get started doing it. And the cost of the titanium itself. Be hard to sell when you buy a carbon fiber barrel where the cost isn’t totally outrageous