it's to obfuscate the simpliness of the stat rpg combat. it makes the people playing it think they're doing more and overcoming challenges, sometimes it works, sometimes it fails. it makes it harder for them balance the combats and advancements, but they use the simple trick of not balancing to get around that and introducing things late. it's why a lot of jrpg's depend on grinding and/or finding some flaw in the system to overpower the battles though.
I agreed with you. I don't even like button smashing or complex button sequences for combos. Even something as simple as shooting pistols which required me to press for each shot is annoyed me. That's why I'm developing a game where it's simple to play and not required me to press buttons over and over again. Though I decided to use target lock system instead of precise aiming since I want to focus on the action feeling more than required player skills to play. Maybe it's a me thing here, but I think trying to be precise at something is too tiring. Sometimes I just wanted to feels powerful without much efforts.
I do agree with you. More games in general have more complicated gameplay mechanics. I generally play games either for (1) interesting story (2) fun gameplay with some challenge, but if the mechanics are so complicated it feels like a chore, I'll put a game down even if it has an interesting story. Games can be fun and challenging without being overly complicated, but some games take it too far, IMO.
I don’t mind complicated if the game is excellent, but far too often, particularly with rpgs, they hide a very average game behind overly obtuse battle mechanics that are supposed to trick us into thinking it’s better than it is
I agree. Between working, taking care of a house and family I don't have alot of time to learn and memorize button sequences to do moves to be able to play a game. I noticed with my ps5 I spend alot of time trying to memorize button sequences that I don't get to really enjoy the game or I have to put the game on easy mode but then it's too easy. Seems like the nintendo classics keep it pretty simple still so I can actually enjoy those games more.
Exactly! More games need to implement automatic equip upgrade / skill upgrade features. It's not often they're in games, but when they are it's makes games so much more enjoyable for me. I just want to delve in fun gameplay/story, not waste precious time fuddling with clunky menus and endless equipment/upgrades. Another things modern games have made to complicated is upgrading. So many games need so many different materials to upgrade/synthesize something it becomes overwhelming and a headache.
@@MysticNessly Yes I totally agree. I really think games developers do not understand the concept of bigger not inherently being better or overcomplicating simple tasks is a chore and tedious instead of fluid and fun. One of my favorite games ever is Nioh 2 and the combat is so ferocious and fun I can't get enough. But they implement so many unnecessary mechanics from Burst counter to soul cores to weapon synergy ki pulse gauge 4 skill tress etc etc. It really goes from a video game to trigonometry class and I just want to have fun, I don't want to have a notepad next to me to figure out percentages.
I appreciate your rants bro. To be honest I find myself preferring games like shmups at this point in my life. Just my little ship, lots of skill tryna get the 1 credit clears and having fun on my vertical screen. Stuff like Tales of Berseria just needlessly complicated. I'm not tryna read a book (and i love books) about the combat systems. JRPGs "unlocking" complexity as the game goes on drives me nuts too. Just drop it all in the first hour lol.
Interesting take on current games. I am trying to understand your frustration, but currently I do not. What is your core critique and the suggested solution? Removal of the systems? Most of the games mentioned do have some version of "story mode" that allows a user to neglect these additional systems. Is the issue that these games have additional systems at all?
These are my exact thoughts on Soulslikes. So many of them have aesthetics or stories that are right up my alley, but I can't stand the stamina bar. I'm not even sure why. Its something about the restriction and the fact that all it does (along with everything hitting like a truck) is masking the incredibly simple and uninteresting combat. And the oversaturation of the genre has at this point just makes me feel like I'm old and cranky for not liking them.
Games have always been complicated, just some games value player expression in their builds than others. Star Ocean 2, Valkyrie Profile, Armored Core, etc. i grew up playing Megaman and Sonic games, I just beat Drakengard 3 earlier this month, we change lol To me, I don’t want to engage with a game if the gameplay doesn’t make me feel something. I want to think, get better, BEAT the game, not just finish it. If I wanted to just finish a game, I’d flip everything to easy and ignore the mechanics, but that doesn’t get me invested. Sure, menus aren’t fun till you drop a sick nasty move on a boss because you knew how to play the game properly. I feel that instead of approaching video games as a “step above movies” or just an evolution of entertainment, but rather a fusion of narrative and interaction and using that to tell these stories that can only happen with games. NieR:Automata, Shin Megami Tensei, Metal Gear Solid, etc. I think to truly enjoy gaming is to enjoy the GAME part of the game as well as the narrative.
Very fair points, I think what I’m driving at is a game has to be actually good to make me want to invest in the learning curve. Complexity for complexity’s sake doesn’t necessarily make the game better
@@NerdCrave that’s entirely dependent on what you find good. I will admit, I’m only 29, but as someone who grew up with platformers, stopped gaming for about 6 years, then picked it back up when I was 22, my tastes have only gotten more complicated. My eyes no longer glaze over when I look at Armored Core stat screens 😂 I try to meet the game on its level than expect the game to meet me where I’m at, which is a more draining experience but I find a more rewarding one. Maybe none of what’s coming out is really interesting to you. I ain’t got nostalgia to fall back on minus some bad sonic 3d games and a lot of Megaman, but now I get to go back and play through old games and see what I missed out on but actually appreciate them as an adult. I’d actually just recommend playing retro games you never played before or just look around for something to spark your interest. Switch up genres, or stick with it. And sometimes stuff’s not made for you, I get it. I grew up religious and I loved metal music, did not coexist at all 🙃
Jrpg's perhaps do it, just to do it and not for it's potential reward of mastering a game. That being said, I have to massively disagree on the wider plane of video games. It is rare nowadays that anything excites me, developers play it safe and provide no new experiences. Formulaic non-interesting, non-challenging games that provide nothing to sink one's teeth into 😅 I guess that's why I've jumped into more complicated strategy board games like Gloomhaven.
The distinction I’m trying to make is games that are unnecessarily complicated, to the point of just being bad game design. Or not even complicated, just unusual simply for the point of being different without it making the experience better. I’m all for innovation when it improves the experience
I wholeheartedly disagree. You may find a game's story and world interesting, but that doesn't mean you'll enjoy the gameplay. There are many critically acclaimed video games that I really dislike and don't enjoy playing at all, but it's just not to my taste. Games need to be as complex as the game itself "wants" it to be, and that does mean that many genres out there will just not fit your playstyle, but most importantly is: that's fine. There will never come a time where all games are complex, or all games are simple. If it bothers you that a recently released game is getting all the spotlights but it's complexity is pushing you away...just ignore the game entirely. It's OK. Have fun with what you play.
Agreed. Sadly I’m more talking about mechanics that border on bad game design, it’s not an issue of “git gud” it’s more… is the juice worth the squeeze
We actually have alot of more simple games to play these days so i dont get why youre so frustrated. 😅 You can also play on easy mode most of the time, and easy modes dont ask the player to engage or dive into advanced systems just to get by. Youre ok man. Its alright.
It’s funny that people think I’m upset about something. I have plenty of games to play, and many of them are extremely complex. It’s not a matter of skill, it’s a matter of whether the game is good enough to warrant the investment in the learning curve. Sadly too many developers hide a pretty lacklustre game behind fancy mechanics that keep you so busy you don’t notice the game really isn’t that great. I’m just tired lol
@@NerdCrave i just kind of feel like neither of those things really have anything to do with each other. The game can be loaded with mechanics and be great (Elden ring) or the game can be bare boned and also great (Tetris) or vice versa. In your video you come off like "these games are bad 'because' they are so mechanically complex" ya know?
I think the answer to this is simply if the game is bad it is bad or if it is good it is good. Interesting you bring up Persona/SMT so much as you clearly love those systems; I do as well. However, FF16 is a fairly new game that I would argue was straight up story focused and was not super difficult to get into. It sounds like you are frustrated and rambling. That being said, it just sounds like you have an issue with action rpgs.
@@NerdCrave NO worries. I see where you are coming from and think your take isn't bad. I am assuming you aren't a Soul's type fan (I love them). However FF7 and Persona 5 Royal are my 1st and 2nd favorite video games.
Simple RPG systems are unbelievably boring, in my opinion. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has my favourite battle system of all time for RPGs and I wouldnt trade it for the world. Edit: I also find something kind of weird about this video that i find irritating about a lot of "rant" videos. A game not being for you is completely fine, but why do you want everything to have to be dumbed down for everyone? It's okay if YOU dont like a thing, but i hate when it becomes advocacy for the entire industry as if gamers all want the same things.
Yeah games are dumbed down enough as it is, and it's frustrating seeing this sh*t complaining it's too complex , like how much of a lazy simpleton do you have to be? Oh I have to figure sh*t out and use some effort waah. Literally seen a comment here of someone complaining about from soft having stamina bars and thinks it's unnecessary. They obviously do not understand the whole thing about the games being difficult and being a challenge and requiring thought and tactic instead of easy mindless action that melts whatever brain you have left. It annoys me because these are the people that effect the gaming scape. Gaming is getting overall worse and worse. Basically indie Devs or AA have to save the day which is far and few. It blows my mind that the world's IQ has gotten this low.
You are in the minority. Most JRPG gamers can both enjoy a new Dragon Quest title and complex systems like Xenoblade 3 (which alongside P5r is often considered the best JRPG of the 20's). There are a number of simple RPGs out there, such as recent FF titles that have had pretty straight forward battle systems since 13, Dragon Quest, Sea of Stars (a 4 move game, at bottom), Bravely Default 2, Octopath Traveler 2, and the Tales series. But devs like those you have mentioned are constantly experimenting to develop new ideas in JRPGs, of which some work and some don't. It is not a problem recognizing that you may have fallen out of time with a genre that you love and that you need to look for specific styles of games (I would suggest any of the aforementioned games besides Tales). But games like Chained Echoes, the Xeno series, much of SMT, Like a Dragon, and strategy RPGs like Triangle Strategy and Unicorn Overlord, etc. bring new life to genres that have existed for 30 years. Enjoy what you enjoy and lobby for the creation of what you like, but do not lobby for a reduction in that which others find great enjoyment in. You are not alone, but you may be reactionary.
Like what complex systems? Most modern games have simple PRIMITIVE combat and progression systems. I dont understand what he even talks about. Lets be real even pathfinder is not that complex as its just pnp boardgame. But compared to 99% of modern prs its like Dictionary vs 4 panel comic.
Dude most games these days are not complex, they were in the 2000s but now they've been dumbed down with RPGs. Maybe you're just a casual that needs to stick to Ubisoft or Nintendo games.
@@NerdCrave the amount of hours in gaming doesn't mean you are hardcore. Like I wouldn't call someone that plays candy crush all day a hardcore gamer , they are casual even if they spend 60+ hours every week for years. Nintendo is childish in gameplay too. The fact you say modern games are complicated says alot. RPGs should be complex, simpleness can stay with casual adventure games and shooters.
it's to obfuscate the simpliness of the stat rpg combat. it makes the people playing it think they're doing more and overcoming challenges, sometimes it works, sometimes it fails.
it makes it harder for them balance the combats and advancements, but they use the simple trick of not balancing to get around that and introducing things late. it's why a lot of jrpg's depend on grinding and/or finding some flaw in the system to overpower the battles though.
Makes sense
I agreed with you. I don't even like button smashing or complex button sequences for combos. Even something as simple as shooting pistols which required me to press for each shot is annoyed me. That's why I'm developing a game where it's simple to play and not required me to press buttons over and over again. Though I decided to use target lock system instead of precise aiming since I want to focus on the action feeling more than required player skills to play. Maybe it's a me thing here, but I think trying to be precise at something is too tiring. Sometimes I just wanted to feels powerful without much efforts.
Well said. Interested in your game!
I do agree with you. More games in general have more complicated gameplay mechanics. I generally play games either for (1) interesting story (2) fun gameplay with some challenge, but if the mechanics are so complicated it feels like a chore, I'll put a game down even if it has an interesting story. Games can be fun and challenging without being overly complicated, but some games take it too far, IMO.
I don’t mind complicated if the game is excellent, but far too often, particularly with rpgs, they hide a very average game behind overly obtuse battle mechanics that are supposed to trick us into thinking it’s better than it is
I agree. Between working, taking care of a house and family I don't have alot of time to learn and memorize button sequences to do moves to be able to play a game. I noticed with my ps5 I spend alot of time trying to memorize button sequences that I don't get to really enjoy the game or I have to put the game on easy mode but then it's too easy. Seems like the nintendo classics keep it pretty simple still so I can actually enjoy those games more.
Complexity is fine but it needs to be intuitive
I feel the same way lol when the skill tree is connected to four more skill trees i think weve taken it a bit too far.
Sad thing is when I talk about this I usually just get the “git gud” comments and no real discourse. Thanks for the comment
@@NerdCrave No problem 👍
Exactly! More games need to implement automatic equip upgrade / skill upgrade features. It's not often they're in games, but when they are it's makes games so much more enjoyable for me. I just want to delve in fun gameplay/story, not waste precious time fuddling with clunky menus and endless equipment/upgrades. Another things modern games have made to complicated is upgrading. So many games need so many different materials to upgrade/synthesize something it becomes overwhelming and a headache.
@@MysticNessly Yes I totally agree. I really think games developers do not understand the concept of bigger not inherently being better or overcomplicating simple tasks is a chore and tedious instead of fluid and fun. One of my favorite games ever is Nioh 2 and the combat is so ferocious and fun I can't get enough. But they implement so many unnecessary mechanics from Burst counter to soul cores to weapon synergy ki pulse gauge 4 skill tress etc etc. It really goes from a video game to trigonometry class and I just want to have fun, I don't want to have a notepad next to me to figure out percentages.
I appreciate your rants bro. To be honest I find myself preferring games like shmups at this point in my life. Just my little ship, lots of skill tryna get the 1 credit clears and having fun on my vertical screen.
Stuff like Tales of Berseria just needlessly complicated. I'm not tryna read a book (and i love books) about the combat systems.
JRPGs "unlocking" complexity as the game goes on drives me nuts too. Just drop it all in the first hour lol.
Brotha!
Interesting take on current games. I am trying to understand your frustration, but currently I do not. What is your core critique and the suggested solution? Removal of the systems? Most of the games mentioned do have some version of "story mode" that allows a user to neglect these additional systems. Is the issue that these games have additional systems at all?
Really don’t want to change games, I just personally avoid stuff with big learning curves unless it’s goty quality stuff
These are my exact thoughts on Soulslikes. So many of them have aesthetics or stories that are right up my alley, but I can't stand the stamina bar. I'm not even sure why. Its something about the restriction and the fact that all it does (along with everything hitting like a truck) is masking the incredibly simple and uninteresting combat. And the oversaturation of the genre has at this point just makes me feel like I'm old and cranky for not liking them.
#getoffmylawn
Games have always been complicated, just some games value player expression in their builds than others. Star Ocean 2, Valkyrie Profile, Armored Core, etc. i grew up playing Megaman and Sonic games, I just beat Drakengard 3 earlier this month, we change lol To me, I don’t want to engage with a game if the gameplay doesn’t make me feel something. I want to think, get better, BEAT the game, not just finish it. If I wanted to just finish a game, I’d flip everything to easy and ignore the mechanics, but that doesn’t get me invested. Sure, menus aren’t fun till you drop a sick nasty move on a boss because you knew how to play the game properly.
I feel that instead of approaching video games as a “step above movies” or just an evolution of entertainment, but rather a fusion of narrative and interaction and using that to tell these stories that can only happen with games. NieR:Automata, Shin Megami Tensei, Metal Gear Solid, etc. I think to truly enjoy gaming is to enjoy the GAME part of the game as well as the narrative.
Very fair points, I think what I’m driving at is a game has to be actually good to make me want to invest in the learning curve. Complexity for complexity’s sake doesn’t necessarily make the game better
@@NerdCrave that’s entirely dependent on what you find good. I will admit, I’m only 29, but as someone who grew up with platformers, stopped gaming for about 6 years, then picked it back up when I was 22, my tastes have only gotten more complicated. My eyes no longer glaze over when I look
at Armored Core stat screens 😂 I try to meet the game on its level than expect the game to meet me where I’m at, which is a more draining experience but I find a more rewarding one.
Maybe none of what’s coming out is really interesting to you. I ain’t got nostalgia to fall back on minus some bad sonic 3d games and a lot of Megaman, but now I get to go back and play through old games and see what I missed out on but actually appreciate them as an adult. I’d actually just recommend playing retro games you never played before or just look around for something to spark your interest. Switch up genres, or stick with it. And sometimes stuff’s not made for you, I get it. I grew up religious and I loved metal music, did not coexist at all 🙃
Jrpg's perhaps do it, just to do it and not for it's potential reward of mastering a game. That being said, I have to massively disagree on the wider plane of video games. It is rare nowadays that anything excites me, developers play it safe and provide no new experiences. Formulaic non-interesting, non-challenging games that provide nothing to sink one's teeth into 😅
I guess that's why I've jumped into more complicated strategy board games like Gloomhaven.
The distinction I’m trying to make is games that are unnecessarily complicated, to the point of just being bad game design. Or not even complicated, just unusual simply for the point of being different without it making the experience better. I’m all for innovation when it improves the experience
I wholeheartedly disagree. You may find a game's story and world interesting, but that doesn't mean you'll enjoy the gameplay. There are many critically acclaimed video games that I really dislike and don't enjoy playing at all, but it's just not to my taste.
Games need to be as complex as the game itself "wants" it to be, and that does mean that many genres out there will just not fit your playstyle, but most importantly is: that's fine.
There will never come a time where all games are complex, or all games are simple. If it bothers you that a recently released game is getting all the spotlights but it's complexity is pushing you away...just ignore the game entirely. It's OK. Have fun with what you play.
Agreed. Sadly I’m more talking about mechanics that border on bad game design, it’s not an issue of “git gud” it’s more… is the juice worth the squeeze
We actually have alot of more simple games to play these days so i dont get why youre so frustrated. 😅 You can also play on easy mode most of the time, and easy modes dont ask the player to engage or dive into advanced systems just to get by.
Youre ok man. Its alright.
It’s funny that people think I’m upset about something. I have plenty of games to play, and many of them are extremely complex. It’s not a matter of skill, it’s a matter of whether the game is good enough to warrant the investment in the learning curve. Sadly too many developers hide a pretty lacklustre game behind fancy mechanics that keep you so busy you don’t notice the game really isn’t that great. I’m just tired lol
@@NerdCrave i just kind of feel like neither of those things really have anything to do with each other. The game can be loaded with mechanics and be great (Elden ring) or the game can be bare boned and also great (Tetris) or vice versa. In your video you come off like "these games are bad 'because' they are so mechanically complex" ya know?
if you think modern games are complicated you wouldn't have wanted to be around during the 70's 80's 90's hell even the 2000's you wouldn't enjoy.
I was there when the deep magic was written
I think the answer to this is simply if the game is bad it is bad or if it is good it is good. Interesting you bring up Persona/SMT so much as you clearly love those systems; I do as well. However, FF16 is a fairly new game that I would argue was straight up story focused and was not super difficult to get into. It sounds like you are frustrated and rambling. That being said, it just sounds like you have an issue with action rpgs.
I have an issue with gameplay that relies heavily on quick reflexes true
@@NerdCrave NO worries. I see where you are coming from and think your take isn't bad. I am assuming you aren't a Soul's type fan (I love them). However FF7 and Persona 5 Royal are my 1st and 2nd favorite video games.
Simple RPG systems are unbelievably boring, in my opinion. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has my favourite battle system of all time for RPGs and I wouldnt trade it for the world.
Edit: I also find something kind of weird about this video that i find irritating about a lot of "rant" videos. A game not being for you is completely fine, but why do you want everything to have to be dumbed down for everyone? It's okay if YOU dont like a thing, but i hate when it becomes advocacy for the entire industry as if gamers all want the same things.
I’m sorry you got that impression, I’m not suggesting games should change, just talking about some of my preferences
Yeah games are dumbed down enough as it is, and it's frustrating seeing this sh*t complaining it's too complex , like how much of a lazy simpleton do you have to be? Oh I have to figure sh*t out and use some effort waah. Literally seen a comment here of someone complaining about from soft having stamina bars and thinks it's unnecessary. They obviously do not understand the whole thing about the games being difficult and being a challenge and requiring thought and tactic instead of easy mindless action that melts whatever brain you have left. It annoys me because these are the people that effect the gaming scape. Gaming is getting overall worse and worse. Basically indie Devs or AA have to save the day which is far and few. It blows my mind that the world's IQ has gotten this low.
You are in the minority. Most JRPG gamers can both enjoy a new Dragon Quest title and complex systems like Xenoblade 3 (which alongside P5r is often considered the best JRPG of the 20's). There are a number of simple RPGs out there, such as recent FF titles that have had pretty straight forward battle systems since 13, Dragon Quest, Sea of Stars (a 4 move game, at bottom), Bravely Default 2, Octopath Traveler 2, and the Tales series. But devs like those you have mentioned are constantly experimenting to develop new ideas in JRPGs, of which some work and some don't. It is not a problem recognizing that you may have fallen out of time with a genre that you love and that you need to look for specific styles of games (I would suggest any of the aforementioned games besides Tales). But games like Chained Echoes, the Xeno series, much of SMT, Like a Dragon, and strategy RPGs like Triangle Strategy and Unicorn Overlord, etc. bring new life to genres that have existed for 30 years. Enjoy what you enjoy and lobby for the creation of what you like, but do not lobby for a reduction in that which others find great enjoyment in. You are not alone, but you may be reactionary.
Like what complex systems? Most modern games have simple PRIMITIVE combat and progression systems. I dont understand what he even talks about. Lets be real even pathfinder is not that complex as its just pnp boardgame. But compared to 99% of modern prs its like Dictionary vs 4 panel comic.
It took me 3 tries to understand Xenoblade but now I love it, it is a series that is worth the effort
Dude most games these days are not complex, they were in the 2000s but now they've been dumbed down with RPGs. Maybe you're just a casual that needs to stick to Ubisoft or Nintendo games.
I’m far from casual, I’ve lived and breathed video games for decades. I do happen to enjoy Nintendo though
@@NerdCrave the amount of hours in gaming doesn't mean you are hardcore. Like I wouldn't call someone that plays candy crush all day a hardcore gamer , they are casual even if they spend 60+ hours every week for years. Nintendo is childish in gameplay too. The fact you say modern games are complicated says alot. RPGs should be complex, simpleness can stay with casual adventure games and shooters.