The best video in about 6 months from all golf channels; truly a test that we can trust. This level of detail will set you apart from the others, if this can be replicated into more clubs you could really create some transparency into the club makers. Good work.
Id love it if you compared clubs like this that are in different catergories, so one club is forgiving, one is mid handicapper, one is players, i think that would be interesting
Odd that they wanted the MP-5 in there instead of the MP-25, which would have been more comparable to the PXG and AP2. Anyhow, for the next test I'd love to see the Srixon Z545 or 565 vs Callaway Apex CF16 vs PXG 0311 (non-tour).
The interesting thing is that you are calling the PXG as a winner of this test, however the PXG is the least consistent. In this category of clubs I would argue that consistency is the most sort after attribute in a golf club. Because you don't usually need the extra yardage in length. So I would argue that the Mizuno should be called the winner of this test, just because it is more consistent thru out the test. I should ad that this is a lovely and fun video to watch, keep 'em coming!
My exact thoughts. If you're looking for consistent yardage, Mizuno wins. He basically skipped those numbers because he didn't appear to understand them.
I have been playing 714 AP2 and love them, but recently ordered a set of PXG gen 2’s. I believe I will benefit from bounce and a bigger sweet spot. For the extra cash I’m certainly hope that helps. I did see roughly 10 yards more distance and an average of 5mph increase in ball speed. That’s most likely from non center strikes.
From looking at the strike location dots you showed it looked like you tended to hit the Mizuno higher on the club face which would translate to the less desired numbers of higher launch angle, lower spin, lower distance, and lower smash factor/ball speed. The PXG and TItleist dots were almost dead on top of each other which is why their numbers were so much closer than the Mizuno and the PXG. I'm not sure why the PXG club head speed ended up being faster though, that's an interesting thing to see. Very interesting test. I enjoyed watching it.
I could imagine the PXG club head having better aerodynamics/less air drag. Plus, you can see that the PXG was on average striked more towards the toe. With a driver center vs toe strikes have a club head speed difference of about 1 MPH - but granted, the strike difference here was at most 1/4th of an inch.
Could it not be due to head weight? The swingweights were all the same but we don't know how they were achieved (head or grip weight) so perhaps that's a factor. I can't imagine getting 1mph from aerodynamics on a 7 iron since that's about all that seems to be gained from all the latest aero mods on drivers.
I totally agree. There's no difference with the aerodynamics, and probably not with the way he was swinging (he didn't mention a preference on looks) so it probably comes down to weight distribution
Shaft and grips were all the same and weight distribution within the club heads won't have such a noticeable effect in my opinion. I stick to the more toe sided strike pattern of the PXG then. But maybe there were one or two more worse swings on the other irons.
Not weight distribution within the clubhead, weight distribution within the club. If you have a lighter clubhead and want to retain the swing weight, you have to weight up the rest of the club. A rotating object with more weight at its centre will have more inertia than an object with more weight at its perimeter. That's likely where the faster swing speed came from (and therefore the bigger numbers and more deviation)
I'm not sure you can say anything "wins". It's a reasonably detailed test, fair enough, but the biggest difference in any of the numbers is the clubhead speed YOU produce. Your fastest and slowest swing with each club is different enough to produce about 10 yards difference in carry. So the PXG was lucky that YOU swung it slightly faster and/or hit it out of the middle more. No one else should base their buying decision on that.
Great stuff! I would like to see 100 balls off each club, then compare the 10 most toey, 10 most heely, 10 thinest, 10 highest on the face and the 10 struck most off the center from each club. Then same procedure with game improvement irons. :-) That would be interesting!
Fantastic video Rick, love the in depth analysis, so many times clubs don't get a fair shake when they're "off the rack". Good to see that the differences between the 3 were pretty minimal which reaffirms Lee Trevino's old quote that "it's not the arrow, it's the Indian" a good swing will produce good results no matter the club and vice versa of course. Keep up the good work & thanks!
Great test! Loved it! Is there any chance you could do a mizuno MP club test? I want to see the how the legend of the MP 32's hold up to today's clubs.
Sine the link above did not take me directly to a poll and I could not find it on the GolfWRX site, I'd like to cast a vote for your next test to include the new Wishon 565 irons. Since Wishon's irons are now distributed out of the UK by Diamond Golf International and you're having your clubs all custom-made, why not? They are forged, with a cavity-back and look sweet.
Rick, Greetings from Augusta! I love this new comparison method that you have created. It is very fascinating. My only argument would be that the Mizuno MP-25 would be the better fit to put up against the likes of the PXG 0311T and the AP2. I currently play these and I tested them against the AP2s and they were leaps and bounds better, IMHO. I understand that this was a poll from the WRX readers. Maybe you could swap out the MP5 for the MP25 for another similar test in the future. Great content man, keep it up!
Think the MP-25 would have fit in better with this group. But just goes to show that there is only so much you can do with a forged peace of iron. You were super consistent Rick, but strike is still king and any of these are going to give you what you put in. The "improvement" irons may show more of the tech helping. Please keep the same lofts as these. will be interesting to see if they will go further, if all else are equal to these. great video.
I feel like the PXG increase may also be a little of what you said in a video with Dobby... something along the lines of "If you love the look of the club you're generally going to perform better". And we can certainly say from previous vids that you really like the PXG's. Another awesome video!
Nice test, I would venture that if your next set of 3 test irons are built to these same exact specs the results will be similar to these three. I'd still like to see the differences (or maybe lack of them) between hitting a driver of different lofts.. or at least setting your M1 to 8.5 vs 9.5 vs 10.5 .. I'd like to know the differences in carry distances with those.
Rick - as a novice golfer, I'm vaguely aware of track man. Is that the product you're using to message these swings? What software are you using? I've never seen the swing path information before and I'd love to find a way to measure that for myself. Thanks!
Rick! you are a gentlemen and a scholar! absolutely brilliant!. I am a certified club fitter, and these detailed videos are exactly what I love to see!
Love your videos Rick! Just golfer to golfer I noticed your impact zone seems a little high on the face. I'd recommend bringing it down a groove or so and that smash factor should shoot up to the 1.37-1.4 range!
Rick I know this is an older video but if you choose to do this type comparison in the might I recommend you throw out the lowest and fastest club head spread for each club. The mizuno specifically had one very low club head speed in one of your swings.
It would be good to see more of the numbers on dispersion, so how tight is the grouping with each club long/short of average and Left/Right of average. Also what's the total between left and right, give us an idea of how big a circle the balls are landing in and how that is centred around the intended target. They're all much the same in terms of how far and fast they go but what's more important is how much dispersion there is around the target. I'd be interested to see more around how they land, how much they run after landing , ideally a 7 iron should stop quickly after landing
Hey Rick, I love the reviews and the consistency you were able to achieve with the specs of the clubs. It seems that with the technology today, every club when hit out of the middle, performs almost the same. What would be cool to see, would be how they perform when trying to shape shots. Does a game improvement club not shape a shot like a bladed club does? Does the expensive PXG offer more control when trying to hit a low cut from beneath a tree? I would really like to see a head to head review where you hit a high draw, low draw, high fade and a low fade to see how each club performs under those circumstances. Just my two cents. Keep up the great content Rick!! Regards from California
I would say 10 shots with each club is too few to actually make any statistically supported conclusions. Even if you take away the occasional thin or toe-ish shots and save only good strikes, some will catch a bit of wind, some will be struck a tad bit better. The natural standard deviation of golf shots performed by a human being is too big to pick only ten shots per club. Perhaps three strikes with each club times 20, which would be 60 shots per club, would show more significant results. However, I really like the intentions of this video and strongly wish for more like it in the future. It's bold and important to try to show true differences (and perhaps lack there of) between club models and brands, beyond the marketing and people's more or less biased opinions and reviews. Keep up the good work Rick
Great performance Rick! That is what I was waiting for since... ...quite a while... ;-) I didn´t thought that a naked blade would perform that close in comparison to technical optimised club heads... ...especially if I look at the dispersion, where it was the best of the bunch!
I'm not a golf expert, but it seems to me that consistency is more important that out and out distance. The measure of consistency is standard deviation, and interestingly for line, PXG come out most consistent, then Mizuno, then Titleist, whereas for distance it's Mizuno followed by PXG and Titleist tied. So 50% of your Mizuno shots will end up within 2 yards of pin high, whereas for the other two they'll spread over 3 yards. And for the PXG 50% will be within 6.9 yards of your intended line, 50% of the Mizuno's in 7 yrds, 50% of the Titleist's will be within 7.5 yards. Hope this helps :)
Rick, I'd argue the mizuno had the best stats. Look at the std devs. Mizuno was almost always the smallest, which means your shots varied the least, making it the most predictable.
Good video as usual. I might recommend, especially as you hit more and more shots, to emphasize the standard deviation, especially with irons and their distances. The average tells you one thing, but the standard deviation is going to tell you how far, on average, the individual irons differed from the average distance, and when you want your irons to consistently go the same the distance, that is a more important statistic than average distance.
This data is so incredibly close, that Rick could run the same test and have them come out in a completely different order. Human factor more than accounts for any differences in data. As a matter of fact, I am astounded that they are so close! To hell with the clubs! I want Rick's machine-like consistency!
Since they were so close, the deciding factor would come down to feel for me. And I didn't hear you say anything besides they feel "different". Can you touch on the feel?
Really interesting test there Rick, good methodology too, good job in reducing variables. It really does look like PXG did what they set out to do in terms of performance. However that being said they do also appear to be the least consistent with them having the largest standard deviations in a lot of instances, too small to make a difference to me but I wonder how it might affect pros at the top of their games. Would have to have a lot more samples to be able to draw any meaningful conclusions on that front though as to whether it's the clubs, yourself or just the data collected that's producing those deviations.
This should serve to show that it is all about the shaft you have when it comes to picking clubs... well besides how aesthetically pleasing you find each head
The most important thing to consider for the posters below that isn't mentioned here is which club can YOU hit the most consistently. Rick is a great golfer and very constant and it shows up on how many times he centers the strike. Rick can't hit offset clubs because he hooks them, most on here would probably benefit from that. This video shows that if you center these they perform pretty close to each other. You need to hit each of these yourself and see which model you center the most. If you're a tour quality player then it really doesn't matter much. i have also learned there is no fanboi like a Mizuno fanboys evidently. I just turned in my Mizunos for some Callaway Apex and love them.
Hi Rick, these irons are built to do the same things in terms of ball speed, launch and spin. So the results are no surprise. It would be very interesting if yo test a super game improvement, a game improvement and a players club, maybe M2, G, and MP-5 with the same specs. Nevertheless, nice work!
I’d like to see you compare the oldest AP2’s to the newest ones and i bet theyd be the exact same with the same specs. Metal forging hasnt changed really in centuries. Also 10 shots isnt enough of a test, just based on chance one clubs average will be slightly higher than another with distance and smash factor and club head speed etc
Tie. I was surprised that MP5 spin was a bit lower. Seems custom fitting / adjustment would make the biggest difference. I wonder if PXG or AP2 is more forgiving - especially at 5-7 iron. Mishits performance tests would be interesting.
How do you get such club head speed with irons? 90 mph with a 7i? Pretty good. My driver is around 100 at best. Like to know more about getting some clubhead speed. Obviously strike is king, but I would like to put a little more in to get more out. Thanks
technique, technique, technique :-) When you stand at the range behind a row of pros at a tour event you think they're not doing anything - it's that effortless...
Benny Frank the 3rd oh yeah for sure. I've been to the Masters (2012) and the Tour Championship (07). I've seen the pros up close. Just wondering how to get more clubhead speed. I'll never get to 120 mph or anything. Just like to get over 100 and stay there consistently.
Nathan Cates You might get from 100 to 120. I mean Rick is not a physical freak or anything. It's all about technique. Fast twitch muscle training will get you a few gains but before that you should have an efficient swing technique imho. How to do that? Getting help from a *good* pro is the fastest way :-)
Nathan Cates I think his ball speed is too low for a 7i, I get 130-132 ball speed with my 7i which is 33 deg of loft ( apex pro). Tour pro usually get over 1.40 (SM) I saw a track man of Stenson with a 6i: 1.43 smash factor lol. He also managed to create 147 ball speed with a 6i...... that makes feel like I'm shit at golf lol
CMBelite-FR Actually Rick is right there with the tour pros. According to the averages that Trackman has published on their website: 7i = 90mph = 1.33 smash = 120 mph = 172y carry = 7097 rpm So just his spin is a little down compared to the tour avg. PS: Stenson is obviously not your average tour pro. LOL When he strikes it it's another level.
I loved this. As close a test as you can get. PXG barely warrants the price comparatively. Mishit performance would have to be massive to excuse such a high price.
Great video RS, fascinating looking at the data, given the identical exactness of the whole 3 clubs spec, so the only difference is the construction, materials & design of the head. I know the figures reveal they are all extremely close, and that's really what you'd expect. Any difference between similar design OEM's is pretty minute. So pick what you like the look of best, and get fitted! But interesting that the club head design construction & shape of the PXG gave an extra mph of club head speed, sure in the grand scheme of things that means little, but fascinating nonetheless. Top marks to you and TourX!
I think the more interesting data point in a players iron would be dispersion (seemed pretty similar still) and standard deviation. Based on that, your SD with the PXG was slightly higher in carry distance, but in absolute terms your SD was really low across the stats. Not sure what it would have been before you made the swing changes but the changes have clearly produced a really consistent strike these days (without the mega hook!) :)
Great review and comparison. It is clear that these three clubs are similar in performance when one has consistent center strikes. But since PXG has the largest sweet spot, they may be the best club for a slightly higher handicap player who may have some off center hits now and then making them the best performing club for that particular mid-handicap player, thus making the game more enjoyable for him. I think that is what Bob Parsons set out to do, make the best clubs for an average player, and he did accomplish that. However, they are prohibitively expensive for the average golfer. So while Parsons is sincere in both his love for golf and his passion for making the best clubs ever, he contradicts himself by making them too expensive for the average person rendering them primarily a status symbol or expensive bling. Rolex watches are quality status symbol items, but an inexpensive timex watch shows the time equally well. Great clubs for one who can afford them, bling for the rest of us.
When the data is this close it would seem almost insignificant as to which club is best. So feel and consistency would be the main factors in choosing one and in my mind the Mizuno actually has the tightest grouping and all 3 feel superb.......
There is absolutely reasons that the club head speed was higher with the PXG other than " you swung the club harder. (other than you made a mistake with the shafts). This would explain the longer distance, and MUST be taken into account. I don't care which one is better in the minds of consumers, but I do stats and BI for a living and just wanted to point this out. FYI, as you swing harder, the ball will spin more AND carry more. If you do the math, and factor in the increase in club head speed, almost all of the numbers start to approach almost the exact same number. Also, factoring in the SD (listed at the bottom of each category in you data) the differences that you see are absolutely insignificant. Really awesome human test by the way. I wonder if the knowledge of "hollow club", "tungsten insert", "true blade" had a lot to do with the slight differences that you saw?
It looks like you were striking them all fairly well but PXG was slightly more out of the toe where Mizuno was averaging more high up on the heal. Very small difference but when you are talking 1 mile per hour and 2 yards those kind of things can make the difference.
I hate to just discount anything about which was better, but the miniscule changes in delivery, coupled with the miniscule difference in strike location could explain away any differences. I see these as all performing the same.
I think this test demonstrates a few things very clearly: First, given the nature of physics and the specification of the ball it is inevitable that the shots lead to very similar results. If you hit a movable object of a fixed weight with a given force in a precise direction, there is only one possible outcome! Second, Rick is just as prone to psychological effects as the next man and, I suspect, subconciously felt the PXG was best. It's a bit like any person when they get the very latest 'beast' and feel very confident. They often play better for a short while, until the 'gloss' wears off! Finally, Rick has a very good, consistent swing. Certainly there were some 'anomalies' but I would have been curious to see how much variation there'd be if the balls were hit mechanically. It wouldn't surprise me to find that the balls introduce a significant margin. After all, why should we assume that a mould of rubber type compounds will be perfect?
Great test we should have more of this, more often. i would like the test to be also 9 - 7 - 4 iron. Long irons in some brands i find easier ti hit that others, same thing happens on the short irons. any ways great job Rick !!!!
Can you make a video of you collecting the pro v1 off the range??
sparko2012 why?
I guess you don't have a sense of humor. You must be a transtesticle. Which bathroom do you go to...Mens, Womens, or other???!?
sparko2012 you have you have issues
An
The best video in about 6 months from all golf channels; truly a test that we can trust. This level of detail will set you apart from the others, if this can be replicated into more clubs you could really create some transparency into the club makers. Good work.
Id love it if you compared clubs like this that are in different catergories, so one club is forgiving, one is mid handicapper, one is players, i think that would be interesting
I'd love a wedge review with this level of statistical information. RTX v Vokey v TP EF. Would be very interesting
rebel4669 and new mizuno t7
Odd that they wanted the MP-5 in there instead of the MP-25, which would have been more comparable to the PXG and AP2.
Anyhow, for the next test I'd love to see the Srixon Z545 or 565 vs Callaway Apex CF16 vs PXG 0311 (non-tour).
That was my thought...exactly. MP25 is closer to AP2. MP5 is more like titleist CB or MB.
Because the 25's would be longer and straighter.
I really like that you spec'd them all out the exact same. There's never been a true "apples-to-apples" comparison like this. Awesome!
Love the deeper analysis Rick. Great insights and based on this I'll be getting the AP2s into the bag! Really enjoy the channel!
Differences so small, makes me wonder how innovative the golf manufacturers are these days in making their clubs different than others.
Catorce when the specs are the same not much
some innovate with technology ... some do it with "specology" ....
Catorce quite the opposite really. PXG is a new company with big claims. Seems the claims are not so far off from the truth, ey..
Clear winner is AP2. Identical performance. 40% of the cost of PXG
Pxg is ugly, Mizuno is the best looking but Ap2 is the one you probably should buy
The interesting thing is that you are calling the PXG as a winner of this test, however the PXG is the least consistent. In this category of clubs I would argue that consistency is the most sort after attribute in a golf club. Because you don't usually need the extra yardage in length. So I would argue that the Mizuno should be called the winner of this test, just because it is more consistent thru out the test.
I should ad that this is a lovely and fun video to watch, keep 'em coming!
My exact thoughts. If you're looking for consistent yardage, Mizuno wins. He basically skipped those numbers because he didn't appear to understand them.
I noticed that as well. Plus, he didn't seem to get the mizuno on the "screws".
The bearded Rick just feels more knowledgeable lol
Fantastic video Rick. Glad to see you hitting 10 shots per club. THAT is much better data than only 3 or 5 shots.
I have been playing 714 AP2 and love them, but recently ordered a set of PXG gen 2’s. I believe I will benefit from bounce and a bigger sweet spot. For the extra cash I’m certainly hope that helps. I did see roughly 10 yards more distance and an average of 5mph increase in ball speed. That’s most likely from non center strikes.
From looking at the strike location dots you showed it looked like you tended to hit the Mizuno higher on the club face which would translate to the less desired numbers of higher launch angle, lower spin, lower distance, and lower smash factor/ball speed. The PXG and TItleist dots were almost dead on top of each other which is why their numbers were so much closer than the Mizuno and the PXG. I'm not sure why the PXG club head speed ended up being faster though, that's an interesting thing to see. Very interesting test. I enjoyed watching it.
I could imagine the PXG club head having better aerodynamics/less air drag. Plus, you can see that the PXG was on average striked more towards the toe. With a driver center vs toe strikes have a club head speed difference of about 1 MPH - but granted, the strike difference here was at most 1/4th of an inch.
Could it not be due to head weight? The swingweights were all the same but we don't know how they were achieved (head or grip weight) so perhaps that's a factor. I can't imagine getting 1mph from aerodynamics on a 7 iron since that's about all that seems to be gained from all the latest aero mods on drivers.
I totally agree. There's no difference with the aerodynamics, and probably not with the way he was swinging (he didn't mention a preference on looks) so it probably comes down to weight distribution
Shaft and grips were all the same and weight distribution within the club heads won't have such a noticeable effect in my opinion. I stick to the more toe sided strike pattern of the PXG then. But maybe there were one or two more worse swings on the other irons.
Not weight distribution within the clubhead, weight distribution within the club. If you have a lighter clubhead and want to retain the swing weight, you have to weight up the rest of the club. A rotating object with more weight at its centre will have more inertia than an object with more weight at its perimeter. That's likely where the faster swing speed came from (and therefore the bigger numbers and more deviation)
I'm not sure you can say anything "wins". It's a reasonably detailed test, fair enough, but the biggest difference in any of the numbers is the clubhead speed YOU produce. Your fastest and slowest swing with each club is different enough to produce about 10 yards difference in carry. So the PXG was lucky that YOU swung it slightly faster and/or hit it out of the middle more. No one else should base their buying decision on that.
I think I'd have to make the AP2's the winner for what to buy just on how absurd the pxg cost.
Man, admit once for all you're a scientist and publish a scientific article on that comparison! Brilliantly done!
Great stuff!
I would like to see 100 balls off each club, then compare the 10 most toey, 10 most heely, 10 thinest, 10 highest on the face and the 10 struck most off the center from each club.
Then same procedure with game improvement irons. :-)
That would be interesting!
Fantastic video Rick, love the in depth analysis, so many times clubs don't get a fair shake when they're "off the rack". Good to see that the differences between the 3 were pretty minimal which reaffirms Lee Trevino's old quote that "it's not the arrow, it's the Indian" a good swing will produce good results no matter the club and vice versa of course. Keep up the good work & thanks!
Have you made test between Mizuno JPX 900 tour and Titleist AP 2 yet? That would be very interesting match up.
Only been watching your channel for a few months but definitely seeing a change in your swing! Looks great! Keep it up Shiels! 👌
Which one felt the best and what is the cost difference in each set of clubs?
Great test! Loved it! Is there any chance you could do a mizuno MP club test? I want to see the how the legend of the MP 32's hold up to today's clubs.
What was the best/softest feeling club of the three? Thanks
Sine the link above did not take me directly to a poll and I could not find it on the GolfWRX site, I'd like to cast a vote for your next test to include the new Wishon 565 irons. Since Wishon's irons are now distributed out of the UK by Diamond Golf International and you're having your clubs all custom-made, why not? They are forged, with a cavity-back and look sweet.
Rick, Greetings from Augusta! I love this new comparison method that you have created. It is very fascinating. My only argument would be that the Mizuno MP-25 would be the better fit to put up against the likes of the PXG 0311T and the AP2. I currently play these and I tested them against the AP2s and they were leaps and bounds better, IMHO. I understand that this was a poll from the WRX readers. Maybe you could swap out the MP5 for the MP25 for another similar test in the future. Great content man, keep it up!
I'd like a ball review with Titleist. Chrome soft. Tour preferred and project a. And Srixon z star please. With driver. Long iron mid iron and wedges.
Tell you what Rick, this time around, your swings looked effortless!!! It was great, and look at the accuracy.
Think the MP-25 would have fit in better with this group. But just goes to show that there is only so much you can do with a forged peace of iron. You were super consistent Rick, but strike is still king and any of these are going to give you what you put in. The "improvement" irons may show more of the tech helping. Please keep the same lofts as these. will be interesting to see if they will go further, if all else are equal to these. great video.
Cheers, nicely done! but which one felt like "buttah" at impact?
great video rick, really enjoyed this! those mizuno's are gorgeous
Very very little between these clubs, it comes down to looks and feel if you ask me. I'd gladly play any of them, all are beautiful top end products.
If it goes down to looks, I would pick Mizuno all day long...
Exactly what I have in my bag!
Can you do one with the MP-5H, MP-5 and the 25's please?
I feel like the PXG increase may also be a little of what you said in a video with Dobby... something along the lines of "If you love the look of the club you're generally going to perform better". And we can certainly say from previous vids that you really like the PXG's.
Another awesome video!
Hi Rick, great comparison. Please test the Mizuno JPX 900 forged vs. Cobra Forged Tec vs. Callaway Apex CF. Thanks!
Nice test, I would venture that if your next set of 3 test irons are built to these same exact specs the results will be similar to these three. I'd still like to see the differences (or maybe lack of them) between hitting a driver of different lofts.. or at least setting your M1 to 8.5 vs 9.5 vs 10.5 .. I'd like to know the differences in carry distances with those.
Amazingly detailed! Great job Rick! Always great videos!
Also curious if you think bending the MP5 2-strong would have any playability affects?
Rick - as a novice golfer, I'm vaguely aware of track man. Is that the product you're using to message these swings? What software are you using? I've never seen the swing path information before and I'd love to find a way to measure that for myself. Thanks!
Was there a drill down done on the shaft specs beyond the fact that they were x stiff
ie frequency etc..
Thanks
Rick! you are a gentlemen and a scholar! absolutely brilliant!. I am a certified club fitter, and these detailed videos are exactly what I love to see!
How do you have inside out swing and closed club face and miss right? Seems the club face data is off.
This also shows how consistent your swing is Rick. You sir, are apparently a machine! ;) great test
Were all head weights the same or was the PXG slightly lighter? This would explain the additional head speed
Is there a difference in when you hit each club? Example, hitting pxg first could mean you're fresher and get more tired when you get to the 3rd club
Cool video, can you make more of those? Game improvement Irons?
PXG totally not worth the money, just get the AP2 of MP-5! More value for money, PXG just too darn expensive. Great review Rick, nice in-depth.
Love your videos Rick! Just golfer to golfer I noticed your impact zone seems a little high on the face. I'd recommend bringing it down a groove or so and that smash factor should shoot up to the 1.37-1.4 range!
Rick I know this is an older video but if you choose to do this type comparison in the might I recommend you throw out the lowest and fastest club head spread for each club. The mizuno specifically had one very low club head speed in one of your swings.
It would be good to see more of the numbers on dispersion, so how tight is the grouping with each club long/short of average and Left/Right of average. Also what's the total between left and right, give us an idea of how big a circle the balls are landing in and how that is centred around the intended target. They're all much the same in terms of how far and fast they go but what's more important is how much dispersion there is around the target. I'd be interested to see more around how they land, how much they run after landing , ideally a 7 iron should stop quickly after landing
rick could you also make a video comparison of the mizuno mp 25's, mp 5's and the jpx 900 tour? That'd be awesome!
Hey Rick,
I love the reviews and the consistency you were able to achieve with the specs of the clubs. It seems that with the technology today, every club when hit out of the middle, performs almost the same.
What would be cool to see, would be how they perform when trying to shape shots. Does a game improvement club not shape a shot like a bladed club does? Does the expensive PXG offer more control when trying to hit a low cut from beneath a tree?
I would really like to see a head to head review where you hit a high draw, low draw, high fade and a low fade to see how each club performs under those circumstances.
Just my two cents. Keep up the great content Rick!!
Regards from California
I would say 10 shots with each club is too few to actually make any statistically supported conclusions. Even if you take away the occasional thin or toe-ish shots and save only good strikes, some will catch a bit of wind, some will be struck a tad bit better. The natural standard deviation of golf shots performed by a human being is too big to pick only ten shots per club. Perhaps three strikes with each club times 20, which would be 60 shots per club, would show more significant results.
However, I really like the intentions of this video and strongly wish for more like it in the future. It's bold and important to try to show true differences (and perhaps lack there of) between club models and brands, beyond the marketing and people's more or less biased opinions and reviews.
Keep up the good work Rick
Great performance Rick! That is what I was waiting for since... ...quite a while... ;-)
I didn´t thought that a naked blade would perform that close in comparison to technical optimised club heads...
...especially if I look at the dispersion, where it was the best of the bunch!
Awesome video Mr. Shiels!!! You should try to test Mirua irons?
which would you pick of the three though? theyre all so similar id go mizuno just for its looks
you should do this for wedges!! maybe the vokeys, rtx and md3s? just a suggestion!!
This is what I call a Quality review!
I'm not a golf expert, but it seems to me that consistency is more important that out and out distance. The measure of consistency is standard deviation, and interestingly for line, PXG come out most consistent, then Mizuno, then Titleist, whereas for distance it's Mizuno followed by PXG and Titleist tied. So 50% of your Mizuno shots will end up within 2 yards of pin high, whereas for the other two they'll spread over 3 yards. And for the PXG 50% will be within 6.9 yards of your intended line, 50% of the Mizuno's in 7 yrds, 50% of the Titleist's will be within 7.5 yards.
Hope this helps :)
Rick, I'd argue the mizuno had the best stats. Look at the std devs. Mizuno was almost always the smallest, which means your shots varied the least, making it the most predictable.
That makes way to much sense
One of the many reasons why I’ve played mine for 17 years
Indeed. It's a bit embarrassing that the most important metric for a player's iron wasn't taken into account.
Good video as usual. I might recommend, especially as you hit more and more shots, to emphasize the standard deviation, especially with irons and their distances. The average tells you one thing, but the standard deviation is going to tell you how far, on average, the individual irons differed from the average distance, and when you want your irons to consistently go the same the distance, that is a more important statistic than average distance.
This data is so incredibly close, that Rick could run the same test and have them come out in a completely different order. Human factor more than accounts for any differences in data. As a matter of fact, I am astounded that they are so close! To hell with the clubs! I want Rick's machine-like consistency!
Since they were so close, the deciding factor would come down to feel for me. And I didn't hear you say anything besides they feel "different". Can you touch on the feel?
great test! can you do one with some golf ball testing?
Really interesting test there Rick, good methodology too, good job in reducing variables. It really does look like PXG did what they set out to do in terms of performance. However that being said they do also appear to be the least consistent with them having the largest standard deviations in a lot of instances, too small to make a difference to me but I wonder how it might affect pros at the top of their games. Would have to have a lot more samples to be able to draw any meaningful conclusions on that front though as to whether it's the clubs, yourself or just the data collected that's producing those deviations.
Daley They did what they set out to do? Rick (inadvertently) manipulated loft down and club head speed up, and that is a win for PXG?
Yep
Loved this. Love getting geeky like this. Can't wait for the next round.
I feel like the new Sprint phone commercials should be used for golf equipment...."why pay twice as much for 1% difference?"
Not even that, 0.64% difference in carry distance. Lol when I saw PXG makes a $650 wedge I cackled
Great test Rick keep it up. Wedges at some point please. Also loved the used club challenge if you could do something like that again.
This should serve to show that it is all about the shaft you have when it comes to picking clubs... well besides how aesthetically pleasing you find each head
For one extra yard one is expected to 3 times more?
This was a good idea! Was any club head in its natural state or had they all been modified?
which one felt the best Rick?
The most important thing to consider for the posters below that isn't mentioned here is which club can YOU hit the most consistently. Rick is a great golfer and very constant and it shows up on how many times he centers the strike. Rick can't hit offset clubs because he hooks them, most on here would probably benefit from that.
This video shows that if you center these they perform pretty close to each other. You need to hit each of these yourself and see which model you center the most. If you're a tour quality player then it really doesn't matter much. i have also learned there is no fanboi like a Mizuno fanboys evidently. I just turned in my Mizunos for some Callaway Apex and love them.
"Is there a flag with red white and blue, I don't know" Rick you crack me up.
Give him credit...there aren't many national flags that go blue>white>red ;~)
Well the french for one and I am sure a few other EU countries
Hi Rick,
these irons are built to do the same things in terms of ball speed, launch and spin. So the results are no surprise. It would be very interesting if yo test a super game improvement, a game improvement and a players club, maybe M2, G, and MP-5 with the same specs.
Nevertheless, nice work!
best test EVER! Love it buddy
Interesting stuff Rick,30 shots I'd just be teeing off on the fourth.....⛳️
Does this not show that if you have the same loft and same shaft you end up with very similar shots within the margin of error?
Shafts?
I’d like to see you compare the oldest AP2’s to the newest ones and i bet theyd be the exact same with the same specs. Metal forging hasnt changed really in centuries.
Also 10 shots isnt enough of a test, just based on chance one clubs average will be slightly higher than another with distance and smash factor and club head speed etc
I reckon if you did the test a second time you'd get completely different results!
Ross Fleming based on? He did do it a second time, and a third, and even through in a 10th.
strike?
Ross Fleming I totally agree. These are statistically insignificant differences.
Yeah based on strike even on Iron Byron 10 shot would be seen as a significantly insufficient sample let alone for human testing
Tie. I was surprised that MP5 spin was a bit lower. Seems custom fitting / adjustment would make the biggest difference. I wonder if PXG or AP2 is more forgiving - especially at 5-7 iron. Mishits performance tests would be interesting.
If anything, I think this video talked me out of getting the PXGs. Still undecided but thanks Rick for possibly saving me a few thousand bucks!
How do you get such club head speed with irons? 90 mph with a 7i? Pretty good. My driver is around 100 at best. Like to know more about getting some clubhead speed. Obviously strike is king, but I would like to put a little more in to get more out. Thanks
technique, technique, technique :-)
When you stand at the range behind a row of pros at a tour event you think they're not doing anything - it's that effortless...
Benny Frank the 3rd oh yeah for sure. I've been to the Masters (2012) and the Tour Championship (07). I've seen the pros up close. Just wondering how to get more clubhead speed. I'll never get to 120 mph or anything. Just like to get over 100 and stay there consistently.
Nathan Cates You might get from 100 to 120. I mean Rick is not a physical freak or anything. It's all about technique.
Fast twitch muscle training will get you a few gains but before that you should have an efficient swing technique imho. How to do that? Getting help from a *good* pro is the fastest way :-)
Nathan Cates I think his ball speed is too low for a 7i, I get 130-132 ball speed with my 7i which is 33 deg of loft ( apex pro). Tour pro usually get over 1.40 (SM) I saw a track man of Stenson with a 6i: 1.43 smash factor lol. He also managed to create 147 ball speed with a 6i...... that makes feel like I'm shit at golf lol
CMBelite-FR Actually Rick is right there with the tour pros. According to the averages that Trackman has published on their website:
7i = 90mph = 1.33 smash = 120 mph = 172y carry = 7097 rpm
So just his spin is a little down compared to the tour avg.
PS: Stenson is obviously not your average tour pro. LOL When he strikes it it's another level.
How about closest to the pin challenge with the simulator. Would be interesting?
I loved this. As close a test as you can get. PXG barely warrants the price comparatively. Mishit performance would have to be massive to excuse such a high price.
Great video RS, fascinating looking at the data, given the identical exactness of the whole 3 clubs spec, so the only difference is the construction, materials & design of the head.
I know the figures reveal they are all extremely close, and that's really what you'd expect. Any difference between similar design OEM's is pretty minute.
So pick what you like the look of best, and get fitted!
But interesting that the club head design construction & shape of the PXG gave an extra mph of club head speed, sure in the grand scheme of things that means little, but fascinating nonetheless.
Top marks to you and TourX!
I think the more interesting data point in a players iron would be dispersion (seemed pretty similar still) and standard deviation. Based on that, your SD with the PXG was slightly higher in carry distance, but in absolute terms your SD was really low across the stats. Not sure what it would have been before you made the swing changes but the changes have clearly produced a really consistent strike these days (without the mega hook!) :)
Could you do this with hits off toe and heal.
Great review and comparison. It is clear that these three clubs are similar in performance when one has consistent center strikes. But since PXG has the largest sweet spot, they may be the best club for a slightly higher handicap player who may have some off center hits now and then making them the best performing club for that particular mid-handicap player, thus making the game more enjoyable for him. I think that is what Bob Parsons set out to do, make the best clubs for an average player, and he did accomplish that. However, they are prohibitively expensive for the average golfer. So while Parsons is sincere in both his love for golf and his passion for making the best clubs ever, he contradicts himself by making them too expensive for the average person rendering them primarily a status symbol or expensive bling. Rolex watches are quality status symbol items, but an inexpensive timex watch shows the time equally well. Great clubs for one who can afford them, bling for the rest of us.
When the data is this close it would seem almost insignificant as to which club is best. So feel and consistency would be the main factors in choosing one and in my mind the Mizuno actually has the tightest grouping and all 3 feel superb.......
There is absolutely reasons that the club head speed was higher with the PXG other than " you swung the club harder. (other than you made a mistake with the shafts). This would explain the longer distance, and MUST be taken into account. I don't care which one is better in the minds of consumers, but I do stats and BI for a living and just wanted to point this out. FYI, as you swing harder, the ball will spin more AND carry more. If you do the math, and factor in the increase in club head speed, almost all of the numbers start to approach almost the exact same number. Also, factoring in the SD (listed at the bottom of each category in you data) the differences that you see are absolutely insignificant.
Really awesome human test by the way. I wonder if the knowledge of "hollow club", "tungsten insert", "true blade" had a lot to do with the slight differences that you saw?
So lofts on theses were 32°?
It looks like you were striking them all fairly well but PXG was slightly more out of the toe where Mizuno was averaging more high up on the heal. Very small difference but when you are talking 1 mile per hour and 2 yards those kind of things can make the difference.
Great test Rick! Swing is looking awesome.
I hate to just discount anything about which was better, but the miniscule changes in delivery, coupled with the miniscule difference in strike location could explain away any differences. I see these as all performing the same.
Please do oversize heads. Like a taylormade psi, ap3, apex type range. That would be amazing.
I think this test demonstrates a few things very clearly:
First, given the nature of physics and the specification of the ball it is inevitable that the shots lead to very similar results. If you hit a movable object of a fixed weight with a given force in a precise direction, there is only one possible outcome!
Second, Rick is just as prone to psychological effects as the next man and, I suspect, subconciously felt the PXG was best. It's a bit like any person when they get the very latest 'beast' and feel very confident. They often play better for a short while, until the 'gloss' wears off!
Finally, Rick has a very good, consistent swing. Certainly there were some 'anomalies' but I would have been curious to see how much variation there'd be if the balls were hit mechanically. It wouldn't surprise me to find that the balls introduce a significant margin. After all, why should we assume that a mould of rubber type compounds will be perfect?
Great video rick can you do more videos like this⛳️️
Great test we should have more of this, more often. i would like the test to be also 9 - 7 - 4 iron. Long irons in some brands i find easier ti hit that others, same thing happens on the short irons. any ways great job Rick !!!!
This is really cool! more like a science experiment than a club test.