I love this video because it’s like “hot take: maybe serial killers murder women, because they hate women and we live in a very misogynistic world” and all these profilers are like “naaaaaahh, no way”. Anyways, amazing video and I adore your necklace!
@king David the great prick well, there are more hate crimes against women generally than men and children. I don’t know maybe some people do just hate children that much.
I agree with this and there’s a book broadly about the Manosphere called men who hate women by Laura bates which talks about this a lot. She discusses that misogyny is very easy for people to ignore because it’s the backdrop against which we live so it’s overlooked as a motivation. I’d recommend the book. To the person who left a comment about “if they kill men they hate men then” and intimated that you were wrong, do remember that many incel killers have killed men too but we know their crimes are explicitly misogynistic it’s not that simple
Also.. sorry just on this point.. we always talk about how rape and domestic violence (broadly misogynistic crimes) are really bad but they are still so common as to be practically normal and so under prosecuted as to be practically legal. My mate just joined the police and is actually a very nice guy but I was speaking to him recently and he was like “loads of stuff we have to do is just a waste of time though” and I asked what and he said “like low level domestic stuff.. like when someone is like ‘he sent a text saying he was going to kill me’ I mean that’s not a crime we can’t really do anything about that”.. I mean we are so used to domestic violence that’s how the police who are supposed to keep us safe talk about it. And I’m serious he is a nice guy but I’m guessing that’s everyone else’s attitude in the police too.. they get a call that a guy is threatening or hitting a woman and roll their eyes like “guess we’d better show up”. Sorry this is just adding to my point that we overlook misogyny as a motive for crime because it’s so commonplace, so normal that there must be more to it
@@kingdavidthegreatprick5410 What's so wild about that? It's probably the case. Ever heard of (internalized) homophobia? And a lot of people hate children lol.
I'm reminded of a twitter post that I can't find the link to at the moment. It was something like: "The abyss actually thinks you're pretty great. Why do you think the abyss gazes back into you? It's because you're fine as hell."
I watched the big documentary about Ted Bundy a little while ago (I think it was released to coincide with the Zac Efron film about him), and something someone said once really struck me as I did: the cops (or the 'authorities') relish the *frequent* media depiction of serial killers as brilliant, charismatic geniuses. This almost excuses the fact that these murderers manipulate their way into positions where they have the power to facilitate their murders as being something no *normal* person would be able to understand or predict. I think one of the reasons that Ted Bundy got away with his original spree of murders for so long was because he knew neighbouring police departments didn't talk to each other, so was careful about picking where he attacked his victims. He knew this because *he worked with crime prevention and the emergency services in missing persons cases*. You only have to watch him in court to appreciate he wasn't someone silver tongued, wickedly intelligent devil; he was someone who knew how missing persons cases were researched because of his position of authority and, let's say it, police inability to put the pieces together. I found it sickening watching the archive footage of the judge saying he liked Bundy personally but had to find him guilty; it was this exact priviledge and confidence afforded him as he worked with the authorities that trained him how to get away with it. Love the video, thank you for all your content, and can't wait to watch the next one!
Think I met a serial killer in college. He was ex-military and when someone asked him how his service was, he started talking about how great and fun it was, how he enjoyed killing brown people, and he wished he didn't have to leave. And yeah, he was training to become a cop. I was just sitting there like: 👁👄👁
I had a teacher in middle school who was I. The 1st Gulf War and he at one point was bragging how he made a lot of Iraqis "meet their maker". This teacher also would have bizzare and almost violent outbursts and would belittle a lot of his students. Eventually he was "let go" because he was caught taking photos of girls on campus, which isn't surprising because he would say some really blatantly perverted stuff about the girls on campus. It's no surprise that the military attracts people who lack basic empathy. Half of the people in the military are almost basically lizard like. Some people join for the benefits, but a lot join in order to kill. Period. And it happens amongst servicemen and women too, just look up the stories of sexual assaults and murders that happen on US military bases.
my roommate had a boyfriend she was dating exactly like this. he flew over with his military air miles on his birthday and they went to the bar, when they came back he was bragging about all these new guns they had and how he couldn't wait to "shoot some fuckers". he left and said he'd come back to see her the next day before he left and then just never saw her again
"If I play you a snuff film I bet you'll be emotionally distraught and change your mind about state execution" fucking nailed that airtight argument John E. Mindhunter
Great, great video. We had a series of killings in Germany where people of turkish descent were murdered. The police made a point to focus on fellow turkish people as perps. They ignored anything else. One policeman famously said that "such murders were culturally alien to Germans", meaning: A german couldn't have been the killer. Of course, the killers were neonazis, and neonazi media was praising them for years. The police hadn't even looked seriously at Nazis being possible killers. Regular media called these killings "Döner Murders", which is like calling a series of murders of Italians "Pasta murders". The same media also curiously refused to consider that Nazis might be the killers, because the police said so, and the police is clearly always right. Serial killers seem to often be people that take societal hatred literally. Against women, against foreigners. And the police often does their best to ignore it, to the point of actively allowing the killers to continue killing because the police refuses to even LOOK at racism or misogyny being a possible factor. And these super smart guys doing all these smart crime things just...seem to be completely oblivious of this. It's a blind spot so obvious you almost wonder if it's intentional - intentional to justify their incompetence. If it was so obvious, yet they didn't notice, surely it couldn't have been the reason. No, the single mother must be at fault!
Not to mention how after they were caught, the files the Verfassungsschutz had on them were curiously "shredded by mistake"... I've always wondered what it said in them
There was a similar case in Hungary in 2008-9, where during a string of shootings and arson attacks, specifically targeting Romani people, with six deaths (including two children) and at least 20 injuries, the police (and the public at large) was INCREDIBLY eager to make these attacks seem ANYTHING but what they were, racially motivated murders committed by white Hungarians. It got to the point where for two of the victims who were shot and their house set on fire with a Molotov-cocktail, the cause of death was ruled as "suffocation due to smoke, which was the result of an accidental electrical fire", despite the fact that both bodies had clearly identifiable bullet holes in them. ACAB
Not to mention: Polizei sind auf dem rechten Auge blind (police are blind in the right eye). My mom and I have talked a bit about those murders, and both of us are simultaneously baffled and unsurprised that neonazis are not thought as the most likely suspects. And honestly, to me, being able to say that it couldn't possibly have been a "true" German, it must have been a Turkish German, paints them a sympathizer at least.
@@delly2088 Yeah, I agree with this so much. I used to be off-put by less conventional make up, but it is growing on me slowly over time. I find it comforting that I can still grow to accept things my gut reaction doesn't like, especially after watching a video focusing so heavily on society's mysogyni.
I had never heard Son of Sam was in the military, and like damn. That actually explains a lot, and like you're right. There's more people out there who are doing that and being state sanctioned, and so no one is putting the patterns in behavior together
It’s currently a rather large news story in Australia, that Australian Special Forces (the SAS) committed many war crimes while in Afghanistan- not a surprise to anyone paying attention, and certainly not a surprise to Afghanis. What’s sick is that so, so many people are letting those soldiers off the hook. “I don’t care what they do as long as they come home”, “being a soldier is hard, give them a break!” Like, being a retail worker is hard too- don’t see anyone okaying the letting off of steam by those workers if they were to go torture and murder people. And there is definitely not anywhere near enough discussion about the fact that maybe these serial killer soldiers (that’s what they are) were attracted to those jobs precisely because it would allow them to go and kill poor brown people. The fact that so many Australians seem okay with that is truly horrific. It also puts paid to the idea that the psychological screening of people prior to entering the army, and again prior to entering special forces, works well enough to prevent serial killers from joining. It’s also worth noting that SAS soldiers get paid LESS than regular army soldiers here. So what is prompting them to join up to this much more difficult and dangerous job? Partly the challenge and glory, I’m sure- but maybe partly also something else? Also, “the glory” is pretty sus, if you ask me.
Dahmer was too, and the other story in the comment where the cops delivered a scared drugged teenager to him, despite two black women pointing that out, : ( , but he also was military The military alo has messed up experiments and trainings.
@@blitzkriegdragon013 I don’t disagree- much like with policing, the very nature of the job will attract exactly those types. Which doesn’t mean all of them are like that- I’m sure your dad probably isn’t. Many soldiers get in because they’re desperate and naive. But some are looking for a way to do the shitty things they’ve always wanted to do- like kill brown people, for instance.
@@katherinemorelle7115 The sad thing about the US military is that it prays on peoples vulnerabilities. Whether they’re poor, bored, brainwashed by super patriotism. Though I do think it’s a minority that’s sociopathic, there’s unfortunately enough there that it makes a problem. Not to mention how the system promotes it. Additionally, those may be deemed too crazy for the military, often end up in the police.
"It is our sacred duty to protect society from the animals who would kill without remorse" "Hey, this guy is stalking me and making up fake reasons for me to go to court and broke into my house just to see me be scared of him, I think he might be planning something?" "Fuck off"
33:58 if I may build off Sophie's point a little here, this pattern of blaming a serial killer's mom for how they turned out reminds me of how, for a very long time, the mothers of autistic children were blamed for their children having autism, which the common belief at the time being that autism was the result of mother's not giving enough affection to their children as infants. Thus it was "their fault" their child was that way and giving them social support would be a waste of time. And many mothers of autistic children started developing unhealthy mindsets that somehow having an autistic child was their fault and is a mindset that exists today and is often the source of a lot of trauma for autistic people with their families trying to "fix" this problem.
Oh yeah. And one of the stupidest things is that it was probably based on a real observation: mothers of autistic babies often do cuddle less, play less, chatter less, and so on. It’s not because we’re cold and unresponsive. It’s because we’re responsive. If your baby squirms whenever you pick them up and is bored by conversations, you take the point and stop doing it. For years before my son’s diagnosis, I thought I was the worst mother I knew, because I wasn’t doing everything you’re ‘supposed’ to. Except that was because my son didn’t want it. What he wanted to do was sit in a nice stimmy bouncy chair with me in sight but not holding him, and decide for himself when he wanted to interact and when he didn’t. You could have looked at that and seen neglect ... but it was giving my son what he told me he needed, and today he’s an exuberantly happy child who doesn’t feel rejected at all. Ask if the mothers might be responding to unusual needs, people!
@@kitwhitfield7169 that’s how I deal with cats, lol Although in my case I did demand to be held all the time and mine did stop giving that to me after a while bc it was a PITA for her , but I don’t believe that Made Me Autistic holy shit
This was cracking. Reminded me of when I watched the Unabomber series (the dramatised one not the documentary, can’t remember what it was called now...) on Netflix which came across as weirdly pro-Unabomber.
@@Whosaskin depends on who is writing him, I guess. Maybe not a serial *killer* most of the time, but certainly a serial something. It’s a bit trite these days to point out that Bruce Wayne could prevent a lot more crime by simply giving up his billions, and putting them to good use (and maybe making Wayne Enterprises, and therefore Gotham, much more democratic and fair). And that he benefits from a society that produces criminals, that he is partly responsible for their crime to begin with, and then he also gets his jollies by beating up those poor criminals. So why would he change the system? He benefits in so many ways. So it’s trite these days... but it’s also true.
@@katherinemorelle7115 Oh definitley a serial something, I mean...yeah... Killer? doubtful...though the more I thinbk about it he does share a lot of traits with them.
@@Whosaskin "Batman doesn't kill" is mostly a pretense in modern Batman media. Sure, he doesn't straight-up shoot them, but he does inflict violence that would, in the real world, result in most of them dying. All the henchmen he knocks out would wake up with brain damage or broken spines, if they wake up at all, and the "villains" are dragged again and again to Arkham Asylum, a place Batman knows they'll escape soon, killing guards and unsuspecting Gotham citizens and gathering new henchmen for Batman to maim or kill.
Psychological profiles on serial killers show that most are attracted to police or to law and forensics as a subject. Dennis Radar had a degree in administration of justice for another example. Ed Kemper was fascinated by detective work and befriended many police officers as well. I suppose it’s one of the reasons why they don’t get caught after their first murder. They anticipate the investigation and try to leave behind as little viable evidence and leads as possible.
I'm surprised you didnt mention that in like the first episode of mindhunter Ford makes a joke about the black panthers and it's like bro...wasnt the fbi responsible for breaking them up???
For corrupting them, too. Before thst they just focused in improving black people's lifes, they became violent after the FBI infiltrated them and stirred shit up.
Honestly, I've been a fan of true crime for a while and I always found it kind of awful how misogyny was never explored. It's always the mother's fault, or the girlfriend/wife's fault, but never the way we raise our children with deeply sexist ideas. I think Ted Bundy's and Son of Sam's case bothered me the most because of how ridiculous their logic is. They found out they are adopted, and they take out their anger on women? John Wane Gacy, who was always abused for being "feminine" took out his anger and disgust on young men, because of course he was a pedophile as well. There are many factors contributing to a serial killer's drive to kill, and yet people always say "they were abused by their mother/father and suffered a head injury = serial killer".
Yeah, an awful lot of violent crimes can be explained by the problems with masculinities, but acknowledging that would mean to recognise that an important systemic and cultural change needs to happen, and seeing some people's reactions, we are not there yet. But anyway, there's a cool true crime series on Netflix called "The Ripper" that actually addresses the problem of misogyny :)
douglas's comparison of BTK to the colonialist founder of wichita is also interesting because the obvious connection between colonial violence as a foundational tenet of american cishet white male identity is clearly exemplified by that but then that isn't the conclusion douglas draws because why would he because why would colonialism and white supremacy have anything to do with this jdhsdkjhs
It's been two days and I'm still thinking about how insightful and original the thesis of this video is. Have academic journals started publishing peer reviewed youtube scripts yet because I feel like they should
Me: *using this video as a way to procrastinate writing my book analysis essay on "The End of Policing"* Curio: *cites "The End of Policing" in video* ... It's a sign ...
I think opening your videos with paintings should be your new thing. I really like how the points you raise about Goya come back later when you bring up the stuff about how the Individual Psychology approach ignores larger societal factors in how serial killers are created and how we craft monsters. I also really enjoyed how you pointed out how stuff like Twin Peaks, X-Files, and BPRD are displacement fiction. I hadn't noticed that before but it makes so much sense. I'm really looking forward to the rest of this series.
Note on Red Dragon: it is ableist. The serial killer used to have a cleft palate, got surgery, but is still insecure about his speech. This is at the root of its chain of motivations for killing. Basically, he is the ultimate embodiment of the disabled villan, as his physical disability is what caused him to become a villan in the first place.
Fascinating! But "seems strange that something like Mindhunter wasn't made sooner?" Like Criminal Minds, starting in 2005 with 15 seasons about FBI behavioral profilers hunting serial killers? I would love to hear your take on Criminal Minds and how it shaped and is shaped by serial killer tropes in media. It's just weird to me to look at Mindhunter as the first non-fantastical depiction rather than in dialogue with previous depictions specifically of profilers. The creators of Criminal Minds have even said that two of the show's characters are based on aspects of John E Douglas. It even has a deeply offensive episode about a trans killer!
I think serial killers are just the logical endpoint of selfishness. Jeffrey Dahmer is an exceptionally good example of this because he said so in almost as many words. Rather than struggling to understand serial killers, we should just accept them for what they are: people who don't care about others (see objectivism, politicians, mercenaries, etc.) Thanks for the stuff about the Son of Sam btw. I never realized that Uncle Sam was the father before.
Not surprising that John Douglas missed the point of mysogyny in society. Reading his book "Mindhunter", he flippantly remarks about his relationship with his girlfriend Pam and wanting to marry her, but never occurring to him to ask that she might not feel the same way. When he arranged to propose to her and present the ring in her champagne, he referred it as an "interrogation scene" and "having staged the scene so carefully, surrounding us with her siblings and her mother, who adored me, I hadn't left Pam many options. She said yes. We would be married the following June." Clearly manipulating a usually emotional and important moment and looking at it coldly and like a narcissist. Pam seemed more like a thing to him and not a human woman. I couldn't finish the book. The guy sounded like a horrible human being.
That's more of love alot of people can't exept the thought of rejection and manipulation in relationships is fairly common women openly talk about how they manipulate there husbands and boyfriend's to do things do that's not uncommon and didn't really make you a narcissist is this more towards insecurity and low self worth for himself hence why he would think to manipulate her into saying yes I think you went into reading that just to see something like so that you could not necessarily get offended at but get emotional twords it
When the video went through the history of the FBI's portrayal on TV, I was brought to mind of a series that was on when I was a kid in the 1970s, titled simply, " _The F.B.I._ " Honestly the only thing I remember about it is the way the title was read over the opening theme music, which has also escaped my memory: In a deep booming voice, a man announces, "The Eff. Bee. Eye. A Quinn Martin Production." I'm sure it was just plain boring, hence my lack of memory, but it was also part of the same copaganda block as _Dragnet_ and _Adam 12_ and _S.W.A.T._ and a whole slew of other shows in that era - the era when the movements for social change such as Reconstruction II and the various civil rights movements that sprung out of that, and the anti-war movement and the "cultural revolution" and the whole thing that gets rolled up into "the '60s" were finally and conclusively brought to an end and Order restored. In which The FBI under J Edgar Hoover himself played a crucial role. (The "kill yourself" letters to MLK were not the end of the Bureau's use of "trolling" - they rather famously used the same method to stoke the conflict between the Black Panther Party and Black Nationalists such as Ron Karenga's "US" organization, and between various Panthers as well.) And of course they were directly involved with the Chicago PD in the murder of Fred Hampton. I wonder if _The F.B.I._ might be worth a look-see in that context?
"Actors playing F.B.I. agents, and other participants, were given background checks to guarantee that no "criminals, subversives, or Communists" were associated with the show" That says enough I think
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Finally, someone brings up how serial killers are driven by misogyny and wanting power. It's so strange to see all these people fawning over what it must be like in the mind of a madman, which is still kind of interesting, without seeing how their actions were helped along by a bigoted society and also how a lot of these "genius serial killers" weren't really all that smart and it was usually just cops that were really bad at there job (or if the victims happened to be on the fringes of society, ie prostitutes or LGBT+, then the cops didn't even really try). It almost feels like we look at serial killers the same way Jordan Peterson looks at how to help ourselves by using social apathy. The idea that all our faults lie in ourselves while completely ignoring the social and societal actions that are possibly harming us is the same way we see the madness lies within the serial killer instead of the evil already being pillars in our world and taking a more obvious form in some people. Great video!
I've always thought that Buffalo Bill was primarily based on Ed Gein, not Jerry Brudos. Fun fact, Gein was also the main inspiration behind Norman Bates in Psycho and Leatherface in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Rather than using the gendered praises of “King” or “Queen”, what honorific should I bring to you? In the meantime, I think you’re killing it, Comrade.
@@SophiefromMars like a mix of king and Queen? Nice. Good to know. I’ll educate myself on that. I still love the gender-neutral identifiers. Champion and Exemplar, for our secular saints. Worker, for a fellow member of the aforementioned group of folks.
My favorite case of serial killer catching incompetence is story of Arthur Leigh Allen, a man who could not have more obviously been the Zodiac Killer. Seriously Hollywood loves to play up the “uncatchable Zodiac killer” thing but he was straight up profiled and they just decided “nah.”
This might be your best video yet. I've watched it three times now, and I'm just really impressed. Super dense and... Confrontational? Is that the word? But captivating, too. Entertaining.
as a writer i would like to add that the privatization of mental illness (as fisher put it) and the constant oedipalization of the framing to investigate mental illness (as d&g extensively wrote about it) are all things which mindhunter engages in and doesn't critique at all, which is sad; fincher is a talented director, but that's about it...
There’s an interesting (albeit imperfect) series this video made me think of : The Fall (I think it’s BBC?). It follows a high ranking English detective tracking down a serial killer in Northern Ireland. It really focuses on the female victims of the killer, the female cop searching for the killer names his crimes as banal misogyny and calls him all too human. The serial killer is “normal” most of the time, a loving husband and father when he’s not planning and committing his crimes. It’s far from perfect, the cop is depicted as (flawed yet) superhuman in her chic intelligence, and the show adheres to a strict and harmful gender binary, not to mention the politics of English interference in Ireland which I am not at all qualified to comment on, yet it’s an interesting response to the kind of media that reveres serial killers and depicts them as fantastically evil.
I ended up saving this for the weekend. I started a new job at a call center and didn't want to watch this when I couldn't think clearly. It's hitting really different because someone in orientation with me is a trans man and he has been fighting with his doctors for a year and a half to get on HRT.
This video was absolutely brilliant and your point about Berkowitz's "there are other sons" and the possibility of other killers flying under the radar because of the structure of the military etc. It was a lot to take in and really sort of blew my mind
All the stuff Chelsea Manning leaked really speaks to the theory too. Not to mention various famous controversies from Vietnam. The military is famously full of guys like this.
The idea that psychopath, in the modern day, is still equated with monsters and serial killers just makes me queasy. Knowing that aspd is a real condition that real people experience without being terrible people. Or even doing anything wrong. It's a conflation of mental illness with moral ineptitude that really hurts whenever anyone does say that kind if thing. Even in passing
As a kid I loved watching Forensic Files and learning about all these different murders and the processes used to find and catch killers. It fed my fascination of death and the macabre while teaching me about science and the law in a fun and engaging way. Unfortunately, according to these kinds of shows, I'm apparently just one step away from killing someone to feed my curiosity or something. These shows always push a narrative that having an interest in death is a sign of mental illness or derangement when it really isn't. I love these shows, but dammit if they didn't make me paranoid.
Likewise, especially when I see how often they mention behaviours or visual cues which are commonly associated with people who have 'abnormal psychology' but are very (99%) likely to be completely harmless. Like mania behaviours associated with Bipolar, fixations as seen in OCD, or the 'Flat Affect' which is common to Autistic folks like myself. (notably under duress such as in a situation where the cops might be involved. I am not normally flat but I dissociate and might get very 'flat' when something intense and emotionally overwhelming is happening in my life)
Worth saying that I absolutely think the police should largely be replaced with medics and mediators, but imo that's definitely not enough on it's own. We have a perception of 'guilt' that goes beyond just police. It really makes me wonder how often someone gets ostracized in a community because of these perceptions. There are many millions of people with mental health disorders which might make them 'suspicious' where a crime could get pinned on them because of proximity rather than real guilt. Things like The Innocence Project can help shine a light on how often it might happen in the judicial system (probably often), but like it makes me feel even more than we need to make a concerted effort to change how we even view 'suspect behaviours' in our society because it's just the common view that these behaviours make a person seem 'guilty'. This is of course very personal to me because if something extremely terrible were to happen near me in my life, I might be almost unable to communicate with without seeming suspicious. Lack of eye-contact is another classic 'guilt' behaviour but ignores that for some of us eye-contact is painful. False assumptions like what behaviours = guilt, have real costs. Like if the police got tunnel vision and wasted time not actually looking for an alternative suspect. A nightmare of mine now that I'm becoming a parent, is that something happens but no one will help. Such as if my kid went missing and the community opted not to help me search because they thought it was a lost cause, which meant the worst outcome was ensured when it might otherwise be avoidable. Any instance where my brain just responding to duress in the way that my brain is prone to do could make matters worse (dissociation alternating with hyper-reaction, because I have BIG emotions until they're too overwhelming my brain shuts half of my sense of 'me' right down) But the truth is, no one has control over how their brain responds. Trying to make judgments about what is a 'normal' response out of brains flailing is fear and grief is less helpful the assumptions about behaviour present. That these ideas spread through the public just make that worse.
@@mitchells.5862 same! I've found myself watching them as an escape from the insanity of 2020 and I think maybe it's the reassurance of being able to learn and plan for something certain.
really good video. god, it's fucking wild the amount of serial killer media that never says one word about misogyny. and the point you made about blaming their moms, god. so satisfying to hear someone else talk about this. thank you
The quote about closure really hits home. I talked to someone recently about trauma/abusers and the scars they leave behind. The thing is you never really get or want closure and they instill a deep distrust in people.
Here from JackSaint's Dahmer video -- this was so well made. Got a subscription out of me. Your approach and style of analysis is wonderful. Looking forward to checking out the rest of the series as well as your other content, well done!
Thank you for the brief mention of people like us, the stigma around DID in media is an absolute shithole and it's nice to see it acknowledged, even briefly, by someone who's content I respect and enjoy
idk if you know about this but in the past few weeks an investigation has been going down about australian soldiers commiting war crimes in Afghanistan so a video about institutionalised violence feels very apt rn
Lol I had somehow heard of Ed Kemper before Mindhunter but watching it cemented him in my brain. I was at a dinner party and one of the elderly academics who had taught in Monterey started talking about a serial killer who was murdering female students near Santa Cruz in the early 1970s. I chimed in, "Oh yeah, Ed Kemper, right?" This was followed by an awkward silence at the table in which I realized most people can't recall the names of most serial killers, only the media-given nicknames.
Ahhhh I'm so excited to hear you talk about hannibal in the upcoming months. There's so much interesting things going on there, especially with the tv show. Like how season one repeatedly makes the serial killers feel more human then other main characters who represent the state. Or how crawford is repeatedly compared to hannibal as a consumer of people when it comes to will Graham and using his ability while simultaneously othering him (framing his empathy as an illness) Or how hannibal himself repeatedly exploits that same mental framework the fbi uses in order to hide himself and frame other innocent people. And then there's the whole thing with Abigail and how the people crawford frames as being corrupted by hannibal are often survivors of institutional misconduct or the result of institutional failures to properly empathize with victims of trauma. Like so much horrible shit could have been avoided in season one if crawford didn't separate out murderers from regular people so much in the boundaries of his own mind and in how he treats them. And of course there's the hannibal communism in how he feeds rich people human beings because in an ultra capitalist society, the super rich is most disconnected from where food comes from and what they're eating while simultaneously believing they're the most civilized. So there's something gleeful for me to watch them shown literally being unmasked in a sort, eating people through barbarism. Hannibal lecter being the platonic ideal of a serial killer, but also the platonic ideal of a capitalist consumer who sees all people as products to be used and devoured. He happens to be a little more honest about it, which is probably why he's such a seductive little scamp of a character
In the X-Files Fox Mulder was a FBI agent from the BSU before joining the X-Unit. It come backs to haunt him when a serial killer he caught escapes from prison and seeks revenge on Mulder
Oh my god I am so excited for this you have no idea. Just gonna get my pre-emptive screeching out of the way now: CURIO + HANNIBAL?????? YESSSSSSSSSS AAAAAAHHHHHHYYY, HJAHBZAJ😭😭😭😭🙏🙏🙏💖💖💖💖💖💖 Also "Hannibal Lecter? More like Hannibal COMMUNISM-" I just let out the LOUDEST cackle hahaha thank you for that. Okay, sorry, back to the video. (Also, you look gorgeous!!) 💞💞💞
Watching this again even though I already watched it on your patreon! I'm super excited about this series because this is a very specific interest of mine and the fact that you're the one making it makes it even better! Hope you have a great day!
@@spellman007 Yeah, Ed Kemper wanted to become a cop but couldn't because he was too tall to be one, the departments have a height standard. He specifically wanted to become a highway patrol cop, if I remember correctly. Which would've been perfect for a serial killer, especially in the vast deserts of California.
Another great show about criminal psychology is the alienist. The book often touches on the idea that the public uses 'crazy' in order to lull themselves into a sense of safety. Murderers are just crazy. There's no way any 'normal' person could do such a thing. Etc etc. Great book.
I think that your point about misogyny not being addressed when profiling popular serial killers or other criminals is an interesting one. As someone who has long since been studying for a career of this kind of stuff, I think you’re somewhat on the mark but missing some other stuff. While I do think that misogyny is very much a factor in many a killer, mass or serial, many analysts or profilers would find it unproductive or reductive to classify misogynistic or sexist motivations for the crimes as simply “they were really sexist and in this society that’s accepted”. Behind said misogyny, there’s often a lot of other behavioral issues/traits that influence how those prejudices are acted upon, and those traits are what might be focused on instead. Just my two cents, great video, I’m def subbing
this makes me think about when i researched into the amityville murders, how it was somehow more believable a literal spooky ghost took over a man instead of the actual financial problems he faced with his father...
I'm SO sorry--this is DEFINITELY not the first thing I should notice about this video (and the content is fantastic, as usual)... ...but I LOVE that outfit in the Intro. It works in ways my brain can't even comprehend.
My mind just goes blank when I see people talk about NBC Hannibal (never read the books so I didn't know about the gross author). I just love that series so so so so much. Otherwise, great video as always. I always end up rewatching your content.
Yeah, disability rights activists have already drawn a direct comparison between prison and institutionalization, and prison abolition with community-based support for people who would previously have lived in institutions and nursing homes.
Haven't finished the video and already I'm not sure I agree with most of it, but I'm gonna keep watching and regardless, I appreciate the work you put into this video and how well you articulate your points!
Great video, Sophia! An amazing analyses, and one I needed in my life. Thank you! If you feel like it, you should look into a book called "Dead Girls" by Alice Bolin about the societal implications of America's media obsession with the killing of girls, and how the focus is always on how their absence affects male characters.
I think it's interesting that you used mindhunter as part of this media, because watching Mindhunter actually made me consider the idea that serial killers are just people with a broken wire. I'm curious if anyone else had that experience, maybe I just took too many sociology classes so I noticed that? Idk
Great vid as always! I hope you're going to cover Deleuze and Guattari in one of these videos. I feel like there's some potential for a future episode that dives into "capitalism and schizophrenia" coz it has some relevant stuff to say about our ability/inability to interpret mentally ill people using that same individualist framework.
this video is so good. i can't wait to see the one you make about silence of the lambs- i'm trans too and i find myself coming back to it again and again in ways i can't explain
The next episode (in January or February) is about Hannibal, so I'll cover it there, but I gotta be honest, watching it again for this video made me feel like total shit. It really makes my stomach churn
I think that this one and your video about Control are my two favourite works so far, from the ones I have seen. Although I only got halfway through your video on Control before I stopped and bought the game myself because I realised I wanted to play it first. So thanks for that! I really appreciate you and your work.
Awesome video, though I'd add that Fincher's Mindhunter is making many of the same points in that it is actually a subtle critique of the FBI in general and the BSU specifically. The whole point of the little scenes with Dennis Rader is to show how flawed the BSU is in that they missed him for decades because they were operating based on false premises, pseudoscience, hubris, and narcissism.
Great video! I do really love a good analysis of the bureau, and the pseudo-psychology that went into it. I guess from a graduate student studying clinical psychology (well- sexuality in the scope of clinical psychology)- it's interesting to see how these pieces of media result in student perspectives. Lots of my students come to psychology specifically because of these shows- they want to be some kind of profiler/work with serial killers. It's a stark reality that...most psychologists don't do anything like that, because there's just not very much evidence to show that this work is effective. If you want to be a psychologist- prepare to sit at a desk, and do a lot of statistics :) You're also very rarely going to apply this "individual psychology approach" - even in client centered work (which forensic work is rarely) - you're not so much focused on "explaining the issues", but more on helping the client reduce distress/unwanted behaviors. Don't even get me started on how Hannibal does therapy...oooffffff.....
![Understanding Resident Evil | Resimania [CW flashing lights, check description]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zTpHxJOE1DU/mqdefault.jpg)
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See videos like this (including the rest of this series as it comes) early over on patreon.com/curiovids for just $2
I’m seeing this so late because I just found you. Fabulous videos! And if you do see this, where did you get that necklace? 😍 love it
I love this video because it’s like “hot take: maybe serial killers murder women, because they hate women and we live in a very misogynistic world” and all these profilers are like “naaaaaahh, no way”. Anyways, amazing video and I adore your necklace!
So if they kill man they hate man and if they kill children they hate children .
@king David the great prick well, there are more hate crimes against women generally than men and children. I don’t know maybe some people do just hate children that much.
I agree with this and there’s a book broadly about the Manosphere called men who hate women by Laura bates which talks about this a lot. She discusses that misogyny is very easy for people to ignore because it’s the backdrop against which we live so it’s overlooked as a motivation. I’d recommend the book. To the person who left a comment about “if they kill men they hate men then” and intimated that you were wrong, do remember that many incel killers have killed men too but we know their crimes are explicitly misogynistic it’s not that simple
Also.. sorry just on this point.. we always talk about how rape and domestic violence (broadly misogynistic crimes) are really bad but they are still so common as to be practically normal and so under prosecuted as to be practically legal. My mate just joined the police and is actually a very nice guy but I was speaking to him recently and he was like “loads of stuff we have to do is just a waste of time though” and I asked what and he said “like low level domestic stuff.. like when someone is like ‘he sent a text saying he was going to kill me’ I mean that’s not a crime we can’t really do anything about that”.. I mean we are so used to domestic violence that’s how the police who are supposed to keep us safe talk about it. And I’m serious he is a nice guy but I’m guessing that’s everyone else’s attitude in the police too.. they get a call that a guy is threatening or hitting a woman and roll their eyes like “guess we’d better show up”. Sorry this is just adding to my point that we overlook misogyny as a motive for crime because it’s so commonplace, so normal that there must be more to it
@@kingdavidthegreatprick5410 What's so wild about that? It's probably the case. Ever heard of (internalized) homophobia? And a lot of people hate children lol.
I'm reminded of a twitter post that I can't find the link to at the moment. It was something like: "The abyss actually thinks you're pretty great. Why do you think the abyss gazes back into you? It's because you're fine as hell."
Now I just have this funny image of this quote being turned into a rom-com. Someone needs to make this happen.
@@moonlight4665 "I gazed into the abyss and it told me it loved me"
I watched the big documentary about Ted Bundy a little while ago (I think it was released to coincide with the Zac Efron film about him), and something someone said once really struck me as I did: the cops (or the 'authorities') relish the *frequent* media depiction of serial killers as brilliant, charismatic geniuses.
This almost excuses the fact that these murderers manipulate their way into positions where they have the power to facilitate their murders as being something no *normal* person would be able to understand or predict.
I think one of the reasons that Ted Bundy got away with his original spree of murders for so long was because he knew neighbouring police departments didn't talk to each other, so was careful about picking where he attacked his victims. He knew this because *he worked with crime prevention and the emergency services in missing persons cases*.
You only have to watch him in court to appreciate he wasn't someone silver tongued, wickedly intelligent devil; he was someone who knew how missing persons cases were researched because of his position of authority and, let's say it, police inability to put the pieces together. I found it sickening watching the archive footage of the judge saying he liked Bundy personally but had to find him guilty; it was this exact priviledge and confidence afforded him as he worked with the authorities that trained him how to get away with it.
Love the video, thank you for all your content, and can't wait to watch the next one!
Think I met a serial killer in college. He was ex-military and when someone asked him how his service was, he started talking about how great and fun it was, how he enjoyed killing brown people, and he wished he didn't have to leave. And yeah, he was training to become a cop.
I was just sitting there like: 👁👄👁
I had a teacher in middle school who was I. The 1st Gulf War and he at one point was bragging how he made a lot of Iraqis "meet their maker". This teacher also would have bizzare and almost violent outbursts and would belittle a lot of his students. Eventually he was "let go" because he was caught taking photos of girls on campus, which isn't surprising because he would say some really blatantly perverted stuff about the girls on campus. It's no surprise that the military attracts people who lack basic empathy. Half of the people in the military are almost basically lizard like. Some people join for the benefits, but a lot join in order to kill. Period. And it happens amongst servicemen and women too, just look up the stories of sexual assaults and murders that happen on US military bases.
Should have physically confronted him
my roommate had a boyfriend she was dating exactly like this. he flew over with his military air miles on his birthday and they went to the bar, when they came back he was bragging about all these new guns they had and how he couldn't wait to "shoot some fuckers". he left and said he'd come back to see her the next day before he left and then just never saw her again
"If I play you a snuff film I bet you'll be emotionally distraught and change your mind about state execution" fucking nailed that airtight argument John E. Mindhunter
Great, great video. We had a series of killings in Germany where people of turkish descent were murdered.
The police made a point to focus on fellow turkish people as perps. They ignored anything else. One policeman famously said that "such murders were culturally alien to Germans", meaning: A german couldn't have been the killer.
Of course, the killers were neonazis, and neonazi media was praising them for years. The police hadn't even looked seriously at Nazis being possible killers. Regular media called these killings "Döner Murders", which is like calling a series of murders of Italians "Pasta murders". The same media also curiously refused to consider that Nazis might be the killers, because the police said so, and the police is clearly always right.
Serial killers seem to often be people that take societal hatred literally. Against women, against foreigners. And the police often does their best to ignore it, to the point of actively allowing the killers to continue killing because the police refuses to even LOOK at racism or misogyny being a possible factor. And these super smart guys doing all these smart crime things just...seem to be completely oblivious of this. It's a blind spot so obvious you almost wonder if it's intentional - intentional to justify their incompetence. If it was so obvious, yet they didn't notice, surely it couldn't have been the reason. No, the single mother must be at fault!
Not to mention how after they were caught, the files the Verfassungsschutz had on them were curiously "shredded by mistake"... I've always wondered what it said in them
@@arkadymishin5303 verfassungsschutz is such a BRD-typical miserable misnomer
Having race-inherent ideas like “Germans don’t do that” itself is troubling AF even if the killer didn’t end up being German anyway :|
There was a similar case in Hungary in 2008-9, where during a string of shootings and arson attacks, specifically targeting Romani people, with six deaths (including two children) and at least 20 injuries, the police (and the public at large) was INCREDIBLY eager to make these attacks seem ANYTHING but what they were, racially motivated murders committed by white Hungarians. It got to the point where for two of the victims who were shot and their house set on fire with a Molotov-cocktail, the cause of death was ruled as "suffocation due to smoke, which was the result of an accidental electrical fire", despite the fact that both bodies had clearly identifiable bullet holes in them.
ACAB
Not to mention: Polizei sind auf dem rechten Auge blind (police are blind in the right eye). My mom and I have talked a bit about those murders, and both of us are simultaneously baffled and unsurprised that neonazis are not thought as the most likely suspects. And honestly, to me, being able to say that it couldn't possibly have been a "true" German, it must have been a Turkish German, paints them a sympathizer at least.
mx sophia this is the weirdest comment ive ever written but ur pink/purple eyebrows make me happy i think they rock
was going to post the same thing
At 1st, I found them weird but the more I look at them, the more beautiful they become
@@delly2088 Yeah, I agree with this so much. I used to be off-put by less conventional make up, but it is growing on me slowly over time. I find it comforting that I can still grow to accept things my gut reaction doesn't like, especially after watching a video focusing so heavily on society's mysogyni.
I had never heard Son of Sam was in the military, and like damn. That actually explains a lot, and like you're right. There's more people out there who are doing that and being state sanctioned, and so no one is putting the patterns in behavior together
It’s currently a rather large news story in Australia, that Australian Special Forces (the SAS) committed many war crimes while in Afghanistan- not a surprise to anyone paying attention, and certainly not a surprise to Afghanis.
What’s sick is that so, so many people are letting those soldiers off the hook. “I don’t care what they do as long as they come home”, “being a soldier is hard, give them a break!”
Like, being a retail worker is hard too- don’t see anyone okaying the letting off of steam by those workers if they were to go torture and murder people. And there is definitely not anywhere near enough discussion about the fact that maybe these serial killer soldiers (that’s what they are) were attracted to those jobs precisely because it would allow them to go and kill poor brown people.
The fact that so many Australians seem okay with that is truly horrific. It also puts paid to the idea that the psychological screening of people prior to entering the army, and again prior to entering special forces, works well enough to prevent serial killers from joining. It’s also worth noting that SAS soldiers get paid LESS than regular army soldiers here. So what is prompting them to join up to this much more difficult and dangerous job? Partly the challenge and glory, I’m sure- but maybe partly also something else? Also, “the glory” is pretty sus, if you ask me.
Dahmer was too, and the other story in the comment where the cops delivered a scared drugged teenager to him, despite two black women pointing that out, : ( , but he also was military
The military alo has messed up experiments and trainings.
@@katherinemorelle7115 My dad was in the military 4 years and could tell you how many sociopaths are there.
@@blitzkriegdragon013 I don’t disagree- much like with policing, the very nature of the job will attract exactly those types. Which doesn’t mean all of them are like that- I’m sure your dad probably isn’t. Many soldiers get in because they’re desperate and naive. But some are looking for a way to do the shitty things they’ve always wanted to do- like kill brown people, for instance.
@@katherinemorelle7115 The sad thing about the US military is that it prays on peoples vulnerabilities. Whether they’re poor, bored, brainwashed by super patriotism. Though I do think it’s a minority that’s sociopathic, there’s unfortunately enough there that it makes a problem. Not to mention how the system promotes it. Additionally, those may be deemed too crazy for the military, often end up in the police.
Holy shit, "This idea of closure isn't for the victim's it's for us"
That's pretty brilliant
"It is our sacred duty to protect society from the animals who would kill without remorse"
"Hey, this guy is stalking me and making up fake reasons for me to go to court and broke into my house just to see me be scared of him, I think he might be planning something?"
"Fuck off"
I'm still reading another of his books now and he just blamed a young girl's parents for her abduction for letting her go out alone
Curio: Taking about fantastical interpretations of the FBI in media
Me: OHHHH THEY'RE GONNA MENTION CONTROL JUST WAIT FOR IT
Double fun for me, I was replaying control (ultimate edition and the whole no transfering the save...) when I found this video.
33:58 if I may build off Sophie's point a little here, this pattern of blaming a serial killer's mom for how they turned out reminds me of how, for a very long time, the mothers of autistic children were blamed for their children having autism, which the common belief at the time being that autism was the result of mother's not giving enough affection to their children as infants. Thus it was "their fault" their child was that way and giving them social support would be a waste of time. And many mothers of autistic children started developing unhealthy mindsets that somehow having an autistic child was their fault and is a mindset that exists today and is often the source of a lot of trauma for autistic people with their families trying to "fix" this problem.
Oh yeah. And one of the stupidest things is that it was probably based on a real observation: mothers of autistic babies often do cuddle less, play less, chatter less, and so on. It’s not because we’re cold and unresponsive. It’s because we’re responsive. If your baby squirms whenever you pick them up and is bored by conversations, you take the point and stop doing it.
For years before my son’s diagnosis, I thought I was the worst mother I knew, because I wasn’t doing everything you’re ‘supposed’ to. Except that was because my son didn’t want it. What he wanted to do was sit in a nice stimmy bouncy chair with me in sight but not holding him, and decide for himself when he wanted to interact and when he didn’t. You could have looked at that and seen neglect ... but it was giving my son what he told me he needed, and today he’s an exuberantly happy child who doesn’t feel rejected at all.
Ask if the mothers might be responding to unusual needs, people!
Yeah, it's funny how they blame mothers for how children are raised and never mention fathers.
@@moonlight4665 Sounds suspiciously like misogyny to me!
@@kitwhitfield7169 that’s how I deal with cats, lol
Although in my case I did demand to be held all the time and mine did stop giving that to me after a while bc it was a PITA for her , but I don’t believe that Made Me Autistic holy shit
This also reminds me of how mothers use to be blamed for making their children gay. And I think they blamed it on the mother being TOO affectionate 🙄
This was cracking. Reminded me of when I watched the Unabomber series (the dramatised one not the documentary, can’t remember what it was called now...) on Netflix which came across as weirdly pro-Unabomber.
@fyn Batman?
@@Whosaskin depends on who is writing him, I guess.
Maybe not a serial *killer* most of the time, but certainly a serial something. It’s a bit trite these days to point out that Bruce Wayne could prevent a lot more crime by simply giving up his billions, and putting them to good use (and maybe making Wayne Enterprises, and therefore Gotham, much more democratic and fair). And that he benefits from a society that produces criminals, that he is partly responsible for their crime to begin with, and then he also gets his jollies by beating up those poor criminals. So why would he change the system? He benefits in so many ways. So it’s trite these days... but it’s also true.
@@katherinemorelle7115 Oh definitley a serial something, I mean...yeah... Killer? doubtful...though the more I thinbk about it he does share a lot of traits with them.
@@Whosaskin "Batman doesn't kill" is mostly a pretense in modern Batman media. Sure, he doesn't straight-up shoot them, but he does inflict violence that would, in the real world, result in most of them dying. All the henchmen he knocks out would wake up with brain damage or broken spines, if they wake up at all, and the "villains" are dragged again and again to Arkham Asylum, a place Batman knows they'll escape soon, killing guards and unsuspecting Gotham citizens and gathering new henchmen for Batman to maim or kill.
@@EmissaryofWind ooph
Thinking about how the golden state killer was a cop
Psychological profiles on serial killers show that most are attracted to police or to law and forensics as a subject. Dennis Radar had a degree in administration of justice for another example. Ed Kemper was fascinated by detective work and befriended many police officers as well. I suppose it’s one of the reasons why they don’t get caught after their first murder. They anticipate the investigation and try to leave behind as little viable evidence and leads as possible.
British serial killer Dennis Nilsen was a cop for a few years too.
@@Glassandcandy I'd say it's less that they're smart enough to know the police investigation tactics and more that the police don't look at their own.
It's like, everytime I see Eric Sophia, they look even better than last time.
I'm surprised you didnt mention that in like the first episode of mindhunter Ford makes a joke about the black panthers and it's like bro...wasnt the fbi responsible for breaking them up???
For corrupting them, too. Before thst they just focused in improving black people's lifes, they became violent after the FBI infiltrated them and stirred shit up.
Honestly, I've been a fan of true crime for a while and I always found it kind of awful how misogyny was never explored. It's always the mother's fault, or the girlfriend/wife's fault, but never the way we raise our children with deeply sexist ideas.
I think Ted Bundy's and Son of Sam's case bothered me the most because of how ridiculous their logic is. They found out they are adopted, and they take out their anger on women?
John Wane Gacy, who was always abused for being "feminine" took out his anger and disgust on young men, because of course he was a pedophile as well. There are many factors contributing to a serial killer's drive to kill, and yet people always say "they were abused by their mother/father and suffered a head injury = serial killer".
Show me the evidence .
You just say things as if they are true , what evidence do you have .
Yeah, an awful lot of violent crimes can be explained by the problems with masculinities, but acknowledging that would mean to recognise that an important systemic and cultural change needs to happen, and seeing some people's reactions, we are not there yet.
But anyway, there's a cool true crime series on Netflix called "The Ripper" that actually addresses the problem of misogyny :)
yeah, plenty of people are abused by their parents or other figures in a position of authority, yet we never become serial killers.
Jack Saint is the voice of Eric Sophia's inner monologue AND the BTK Killer? I'M WATCHING YOU, ERIC SOPHIA'S INNER MONOLOGUE!!!
douglas's comparison of BTK to the colonialist founder of wichita is also interesting because the obvious connection between colonial violence as a foundational tenet of american cishet white male identity is clearly exemplified by that but then that isn't the conclusion douglas draws because why would he because why would colonialism and white supremacy have anything to do with this jdhsdkjhs
It's been two days and I'm still thinking about how insightful and original the thesis of this video is. Have academic journals started publishing peer reviewed youtube scripts yet because I feel like they should
Fox Mulder's backstory is also that he's a psychologist who worked with the BSU before taking on the X-Files
"which people like to quote a lot, so it must be very smart and meaningfull" is such a great diss for people who think of them self as "intellectual"
Me: *using this video as a way to procrastinate writing my book analysis essay on "The End of Policing"*
Curio: *cites "The End of Policing" in video*
... It's a sign ...
I think opening your videos with paintings should be your new thing. I really like how the points you raise about Goya come back later when you bring up the stuff about how the Individual Psychology approach ignores larger societal factors in how serial killers are created and how we craft monsters. I also really enjoyed how you pointed out how stuff like Twin Peaks, X-Files, and BPRD are displacement fiction. I hadn't noticed that before but it makes so much sense. I'm really looking forward to the rest of this series.
hhhhhh being slapped in the face with so many great voice cameos is a beautiful experience
Surely there is no one left unsubscribed after “maybe a spooky ghost turned him evil with magic?” !
Note on Red Dragon: it is ableist. The serial killer used to have a cleft palate, got surgery, but is still insecure about his speech. This is at the root of its chain of motivations for killing. Basically, he is the ultimate embodiment of the disabled villan, as his physical disability is what caused him to become a villan in the first place.
Fascinating! But "seems strange that something like Mindhunter wasn't made sooner?" Like Criminal Minds, starting in 2005 with 15 seasons about FBI behavioral profilers hunting serial killers? I would love to hear your take on Criminal Minds and how it shaped and is shaped by serial killer tropes in media. It's just weird to me to look at Mindhunter as the first non-fantastical depiction rather than in dialogue with previous depictions specifically of profilers. The creators of Criminal Minds have even said that two of the show's characters are based on aspects of John E Douglas. It even has a deeply offensive episode about a trans killer!
Criminal Minds though is a) not historical fiction and b) more of a "monster of the week" type format, similar to shows like CSI or Law & Order
I watched AN episode of Criminal Minds, and it was the most ridiculous dreck I’ve ever seen in my entire life.
Calling Criminal Minds "non-fantastical" is one bold fucking take
you keep serving these looks and knowledge. We have no choice but to stan
I think serial killers are just the logical endpoint of selfishness. Jeffrey Dahmer is an exceptionally good example of this because he said so in almost as many words.
Rather than struggling to understand serial killers, we should just accept them for what they are: people who don't care about others (see objectivism, politicians, mercenaries, etc.)
Thanks for the stuff about the Son of Sam btw. I never realized that Uncle Sam was the father before.
given the ending conclusions, it may be more appropriate to say "as you gaze into the abyss, forget not that the abyss was built by your own hands"
Curio: deep lore analysis beautifully executed.
Me: BUT THE GENGAR EARRINGS THO!
Not surprising that John Douglas missed the point of mysogyny in society. Reading his book "Mindhunter", he flippantly remarks about his relationship with his girlfriend Pam and wanting to marry her, but never occurring to him to ask that she might not feel the same way. When he arranged to propose to her and present the ring in her champagne, he referred it as an "interrogation scene" and "having staged the scene so carefully, surrounding us with her siblings and her mother, who adored me, I hadn't left Pam many options. She said yes. We would be married the following June." Clearly manipulating a usually emotional and important moment and looking at it coldly and like a narcissist. Pam seemed more like a thing to him and not a human woman. I couldn't finish the book. The guy sounded like a horrible human being.
That's more of love alot of people can't exept the thought of rejection and manipulation in relationships is fairly common women openly talk about how they manipulate there husbands and boyfriend's to do things do that's not uncommon and didn't really make you a narcissist is this more towards insecurity and low self worth for himself hence why he would think to manipulate her into saying yes I think you went into reading that just to see something like so that you could not necessarily get offended at but get emotional twords it
When the video went through the history of the FBI's portrayal on TV, I was brought to mind of a series that was on when I was a kid in the 1970s, titled simply, " _The F.B.I._ " Honestly the only thing I remember about it is the way the title was read over the opening theme music, which has also escaped my memory: In a deep booming voice, a man announces, "The Eff. Bee. Eye. A Quinn Martin Production." I'm sure it was just plain boring, hence my lack of memory, but it was also part of the same copaganda block as _Dragnet_ and _Adam 12_ and _S.W.A.T._ and a whole slew of other shows in that era - the era when the movements for social change such as Reconstruction II and the various civil rights movements that sprung out of that, and the anti-war movement and the "cultural revolution" and the whole thing that gets rolled up into "the '60s" were finally and conclusively brought to an end and Order restored. In which The FBI under J Edgar Hoover himself played a crucial role. (The "kill yourself" letters to MLK were not the end of the Bureau's use of "trolling" - they rather famously used the same method to stoke the conflict between the Black Panther Party and Black Nationalists such as Ron Karenga's "US" organization, and between various Panthers as well.) And of course they were directly involved with the Chicago PD in the murder of Fred Hampton.
I wonder if _The F.B.I._ might be worth a look-see in that context?
"Actors playing F.B.I. agents, and other participants, were given background checks to guarantee that no "criminals, subversives, or Communists" were associated with the show"
That says enough I think
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Finally, someone brings up how serial killers are driven by misogyny and wanting power. It's so strange to see all these people fawning over what it must be like in the mind of a madman, which is still kind of interesting, without seeing how their actions were helped along by a bigoted society and also how a lot of these "genius serial killers" weren't really all that smart and it was usually just cops that were really bad at there job (or if the victims happened to be on the fringes of society, ie prostitutes or LGBT+, then the cops didn't even really try).
It almost feels like we look at serial killers the same way Jordan Peterson looks at how to help ourselves by using social apathy. The idea that all our faults lie in ourselves while completely ignoring the social and societal actions that are possibly harming us is the same way we see the madness lies within the serial killer instead of the evil already being pillars in our world and taking a more obvious form in some people. Great video!
I've always thought that Buffalo Bill was primarily based on Ed Gein, not Jerry Brudos. Fun fact, Gein was also the main inspiration behind Norman Bates in Psycho and Leatherface in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
‘...tax force- tax force???’ was so cute
Rather than using the gendered praises of “King” or “Queen”, what honorific should I bring to you?
In the meantime, I think you’re killing it, Comrade.
Queen is fine by me, but I'm also a big fan of the emerging term "Quing"
@@SophiefromMars like a mix of king and Queen? Nice. Good to know. I’ll educate myself on that.
I still love the gender-neutral identifiers. Champion and Exemplar, for our secular saints. Worker, for a fellow member of the aforementioned group of folks.
My Liege, your Highness the Monarch
Jester
@Just Another Bot maybe a ‘keen’ then? 🤔 or pronounce ‘quing’ as ‘kwing’ or something.
My favorite case of serial killer catching incompetence is story of Arthur Leigh Allen, a man who could not have more obviously been the Zodiac Killer. Seriously Hollywood loves to play up the “uncatchable Zodiac killer” thing but he was straight up profiled and they just decided “nah.”
Wait, what? I thought Ted Cruz was the Zodiac Killer.
This might be your best video yet. I've watched it three times now, and I'm just really impressed. Super dense and... Confrontational? Is that the word? But captivating, too. Entertaining.
The "Son of Sam" thing has me absolutely shook. Like, you can't write this shit. This was real. How did they miss it?
as a writer i would like to add that the privatization of mental illness (as fisher put it) and the constant oedipalization of the framing to investigate mental illness (as d&g extensively wrote about it) are all things which mindhunter engages in and doesn't critique at all, which is sad; fincher is a talented director, but that's about it...
There’s an interesting (albeit imperfect) series this video made me think of : The Fall (I think it’s BBC?). It follows a high ranking English detective tracking down a serial killer in Northern Ireland. It really focuses on the female victims of the killer, the female cop searching for the killer names his crimes as banal misogyny and calls him all too human. The serial killer is “normal” most of the time, a loving husband and father when he’s not planning and committing his crimes. It’s far from perfect, the cop is depicted as (flawed yet) superhuman in her chic intelligence, and the show adheres to a strict and harmful gender binary, not to mention the politics of English interference in Ireland which I am not at all qualified to comment on, yet it’s an interesting response to the kind of media that reveres serial killers and depicts them as fantastically evil.
The narrative buildup is so good that I genuinely hollered at 11:10 for real 😂😂
Literally my favorite bit in the entire video
I ended up saving this for the weekend. I started a new job at a call center and didn't want to watch this when I couldn't think clearly. It's hitting really different because someone in orientation with me is a trans man and he has been fighting with his doctors for a year and a half to get on HRT.
This video was absolutely brilliant and your point about Berkowitz's "there are other sons" and the possibility of other killers flying under the radar because of the structure of the military etc. It was a lot to take in and really sort of blew my mind
All the stuff Chelsea Manning leaked really speaks to the theory too. Not to mention various famous controversies from Vietnam. The military is famously full of guys like this.
You're a delight soph
your voice is so soothing
The idea that psychopath, in the modern day, is still equated with monsters and serial killers just makes me queasy. Knowing that aspd is a real condition that real people experience without being terrible people. Or even doing anything wrong.
It's a conflation of mental illness with moral ineptitude that really hurts whenever anyone does say that kind if thing. Even in passing
As a kid I loved watching Forensic Files and learning about all these different murders and the processes used to find and catch killers. It fed my fascination of death and the macabre while teaching me about science and the law in a fun and engaging way. Unfortunately, according to these kinds of shows, I'm apparently just one step away from killing someone to feed my curiosity or something. These shows always push a narrative that having an interest in death is a sign of mental illness or derangement when it really isn't. I love these shows, but dammit if they didn't make me paranoid.
Caitlin Doughty fan?
@@bonniea8189 Yes! I love her videos.
Likewise, especially when I see how often they mention behaviours or visual cues which are commonly associated with people who have 'abnormal psychology' but are very (99%) likely to be completely harmless. Like mania behaviours associated with Bipolar, fixations as seen in OCD, or the 'Flat Affect' which is common to Autistic folks like myself. (notably under duress such as in a situation where the cops might be involved. I am not normally flat but I dissociate and might get very 'flat' when something intense and emotionally overwhelming is happening in my life)
Worth saying that I absolutely think the police should largely be replaced with medics and mediators, but imo that's definitely not enough on it's own.
We have a perception of 'guilt' that goes beyond just police. It really makes me wonder how often someone gets ostracized in a community because of these perceptions. There are many millions of people with mental health disorders which might make them 'suspicious' where a crime could get pinned on them because of proximity rather than real guilt.
Things like The Innocence Project can help shine a light on how often it might happen in the judicial system (probably often), but like it makes me feel even more than we need to make a concerted effort to change how we even view 'suspect behaviours' in our society because it's just the common view that these behaviours make a person seem 'guilty'.
This is of course very personal to me because if something extremely terrible were to happen near me in my life, I might be almost unable to communicate with without seeming suspicious.
Lack of eye-contact is another classic 'guilt' behaviour but ignores that for some of us eye-contact is painful.
False assumptions like what behaviours = guilt, have real costs. Like if the police got tunnel vision and wasted time not actually looking for an alternative suspect.
A nightmare of mine now that I'm becoming a parent, is that something happens but no one will help. Such as if my kid went missing and the community opted not to help me search because they thought it was a lost cause, which meant the worst outcome was ensured when it might otherwise be avoidable.
Any instance where my brain just responding to duress in the way that my brain is prone to do could make matters worse (dissociation alternating with hyper-reaction, because I have BIG emotions until they're too overwhelming my brain shuts half of my sense of 'me' right down)
But the truth is, no one has control over how their brain responds.
Trying to make judgments about what is a 'normal' response out of brains flailing is fear and grief is less helpful the assumptions about behaviour present. That these ideas spread through the public just make that worse.
@@mitchells.5862 same! I've found myself watching them as an escape from the insanity of 2020 and I think maybe it's the reassurance of being able to learn and plan for something certain.
Love how it feels like we're having an adult sleepover in a blanket fort where we discuss media theory and I'm here for it Sophia it's a good time
really good video. god, it's fucking wild the amount of serial killer media that never says one word about misogyny. and the point you made about blaming their moms, god. so satisfying to hear someone else talk about this. thank you
The quote about closure really hits home. I talked to someone recently about trauma/abusers and the scars they leave behind. The thing is you never really get or want closure and they instill a deep distrust in people.
Here from JackSaint's Dahmer video -- this was so well made. Got a subscription out of me. Your approach and style of analysis is wonderful. Looking forward to checking out the rest of the series as well as your other content, well done!
I hope you continue this series. It was really inspiring and it led me to create my first lecture performance on monster theory!
I'll be back in 20 hours.
Are you back??
@@Hxnsson Of course.
Welcome back
Thank you for the brief mention of people like us, the stigma around DID in media is an absolute shithole and it's nice to see it acknowledged, even briefly, by someone who's content I respect and enjoy
idk if you know about this but in the past few weeks an investigation has been going down about australian soldiers commiting war crimes in Afghanistan so a video about institutionalised violence feels very apt rn
Yes I was definitely morbidly fascinated with Ed Kemper after watching mindhunter
Lol I had somehow heard of Ed Kemper before Mindhunter but watching it cemented him in my brain. I was at a dinner party and one of the elderly academics who had taught in Monterey started talking about a serial killer who was murdering female students near Santa Cruz in the early 1970s. I chimed in, "Oh yeah, Ed Kemper, right?" This was followed by an awkward silence at the table in which I realized most people can't recall the names of most serial killers, only the media-given nicknames.
Really looking forward to the rest of this series. This was a fantastic start :)
I love that you appear to be recording this in a blanket fort. Its very cozy and feeds into that whole monster story them.
This was really good! Btw ADORE the gengar earings, they look great on you.
Ahhhh I'm so excited to hear you talk about hannibal in the upcoming months.
There's so much interesting things going on there, especially with the tv show. Like how season one repeatedly makes the serial killers feel more human then other main characters who represent the state.
Or how crawford is repeatedly compared to hannibal as a consumer of people when it comes to will Graham and using his ability while simultaneously othering him (framing his empathy as an illness)
Or how hannibal himself repeatedly exploits that same mental framework the fbi uses in order to hide himself and frame other innocent people.
And then there's the whole thing with Abigail and how the people crawford frames as being corrupted by hannibal are often survivors of institutional misconduct or the result of institutional failures to properly empathize with victims of trauma.
Like so much horrible shit could have been avoided in season one if crawford didn't separate out murderers from regular people so much in the boundaries of his own mind and in how he treats them.
And of course there's the hannibal communism in how he feeds rich people human beings because in an ultra capitalist society, the super rich is most disconnected from where food comes from and what they're eating while simultaneously believing they're the most civilized. So there's something gleeful for me to watch them shown literally being unmasked in a sort, eating people through barbarism. Hannibal lecter being the platonic ideal of a serial killer, but also the platonic ideal of a capitalist consumer who sees all people as products to be used and devoured. He happens to be a little more honest about it, which is probably why he's such a seductive little scamp of a character
Yet another wonderful and thought-provoking vid. Can't wait to see more!
In the X-Files Fox Mulder was a FBI agent from the BSU before joining the X-Unit.
It come backs to haunt him when a serial killer he caught escapes from prison and seeks revenge on Mulder
Oh my god I am so excited for this you have no idea. Just gonna get my pre-emptive screeching out of the way now: CURIO + HANNIBAL?????? YESSSSSSSSSS AAAAAAHHHHHHYYY, HJAHBZAJ😭😭😭😭🙏🙏🙏💖💖💖💖💖💖
Also "Hannibal Lecter? More like Hannibal COMMUNISM-" I just let out the LOUDEST cackle hahaha thank you for that. Okay, sorry, back to the video. (Also, you look gorgeous!!) 💞💞💞
I know right!? Ahhhhhhh I'm so excited
Watching this again even though I already watched it on your patreon! I'm super excited about this series because this is a very specific interest of mine and the fact that you're the one making it makes it even better! Hope you have a great day!
Ed Kemper was a cop fanboy, if I remember correctly. Hung out at cop bars and stuff.
@@spellman007 Yeah, Ed Kemper wanted to become a cop but couldn't because he was too tall to be one, the departments have a height standard. He specifically wanted to become a highway patrol cop, if I remember correctly. Which would've been perfect for a serial killer, especially in the vast deserts of California.
Hold up, there are cop bars? That's even worse than sports bars.
pls let this talk about hannibal, i havent seen enough reviews about it
Yeees
Another great show about criminal psychology is the alienist. The book often touches on the idea that the public uses 'crazy' in order to lull themselves into a sense of safety. Murderers are just crazy. There's no way any 'normal' person could do such a thing. Etc etc. Great book.
the VO cast in this made my little lefty heart happy
This was so interesting and well put together, I enjoyed it more than Mind Hunter itself.
Your channel is becoming one of my all-time favorites!
Wow, thanks!
I think that your point about misogyny not being addressed when profiling popular serial killers or other criminals is an interesting one. As someone who has long since been studying for a career of this kind of stuff, I think you’re somewhat on the mark but missing some other stuff. While I do think that misogyny is very much a factor in many a killer, mass or serial, many analysts or profilers would find it unproductive or reductive to classify misogynistic or sexist motivations for the crimes as simply “they were really sexist and in this society that’s accepted”. Behind said misogyny, there’s often a lot of other behavioral issues/traits that influence how those prejudices are acted upon, and those traits are what might be focused on instead.
Just my two cents, great video, I’m def subbing
this makes me think about when i researched into the amityville murders, how it was somehow more believable a literal spooky ghost took over a man instead of the actual financial problems he faced with his father...
'she's in the show but they left all this bullshit out' jesus, yeah, really good call on that one, bryan fuller
If "The Bureau" by Gerard Way isn't in this video I'm gonna riot
I'm SO sorry--this is DEFINITELY not the first thing I should notice about this video (and the content is fantastic, as usual)...
...but I LOVE that outfit in the Intro.
It works in ways my brain can't even comprehend.
Wow, thank you!
My mind just goes blank when I see people talk about NBC Hannibal (never read the books so I didn't know about the gross author). I just love that series so so so so much.
Otherwise, great video as always. I always end up rewatching your content.
I adore the speaky-bits in the soft blanket fort. Helps keep it spooky but also feel safe and comforting!
Love, Mx.Amoeba
Playing House of the Rising Sun, oh my god
Great video! Your content has brought me a lot happiness. Thank you!
I love watching the entirety of Left-leaning UA-cam slowly become more and more Aesthetic™️.
Thank god for Jack Saints for shouting this video out in 2022, cause I missed it the day it came out!
Yeah, disability rights activists have already drawn a direct comparison between prison and institutionalization, and prison abolition with community-based support for people who would previously have lived in institutions and nursing homes.
Haven't finished the video and already I'm not sure I agree with most of it, but I'm gonna keep watching and regardless, I appreciate the work you put into this video and how well you articulate your points!
WOAH! that intro was so dope, i had to pause and leave a comment. and now back to the program
Great video, Sophia! An amazing analyses, and one I needed in my life. Thank you! If you feel like it, you should look into a book called "Dead Girls" by Alice Bolin about the societal implications of America's media obsession with the killing of girls, and how the focus is always on how their absence affects male characters.
I think it's interesting that you used mindhunter as part of this media, because watching Mindhunter actually made me consider the idea that serial killers are just people with a broken wire. I'm curious if anyone else had that experience, maybe I just took too many sociology classes so I noticed that? Idk
Great vid as always! I hope you're going to cover Deleuze and Guattari in one of these videos. I feel like there's some potential for a future episode that dives into "capitalism and schizophrenia" coz it has some relevant stuff to say about our ability/inability to interpret mentally ill people using that same individualist framework.
this video is so good. i can't wait to see the one you make about silence of the lambs- i'm trans too and i find myself coming back to it again and again in ways i can't explain
The next episode (in January or February) is about Hannibal, so I'll cover it there, but I gotta be honest, watching it again for this video made me feel like total shit. It really makes my stomach churn
@@SophiefromMars i understand, the book was the first time i encountered transness and it messed me up a little. take care of yourself!
so glad you mentioned hannibal and even more glad when you said youd make a video on him
This past month I discovered your channel. Your work rocks and it's a big inspo. Thanks for all the great work 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜
I see you reading that Twin Peaks book.
I think that this one and your video about Control are my two favourite works so far, from the ones I have seen. Although I only got halfway through your video on Control before I stopped and bought the game myself because I realised I wanted to play it first. So thanks for that! I really appreciate you and your work.
Dang, you are glowing lately! It makes me so happy!
Joel, jack and was that contra?? You’re blowing up bless
Awesome video, though I'd add that Fincher's Mindhunter is making many of the same points in that it is actually a subtle critique of the FBI in general and the BSU specifically. The whole point of the little scenes with Dennis Rader is to show how flawed the BSU is in that they missed him for decades because they were operating based on false premises, pseudoscience, hubris, and narcissism.
this was a great video thank you!! also im so excited for the hannibal episode i really want to see your takes!!
Great video! I do really love a good analysis of the bureau, and the pseudo-psychology that went into it. I guess from a graduate student studying clinical psychology (well- sexuality in the scope of clinical psychology)- it's interesting to see how these pieces of media result in student perspectives. Lots of my students come to psychology specifically because of these shows- they want to be some kind of profiler/work with serial killers. It's a stark reality that...most psychologists don't do anything like that, because there's just not very much evidence to show that this work is effective. If you want to be a psychologist- prepare to sit at a desk, and do a lot of statistics :)
You're also very rarely going to apply this "individual psychology approach" - even in client centered work (which forensic work is rarely) - you're not so much focused on "explaining the issues", but more on helping the client reduce distress/unwanted behaviors. Don't even get me started on how Hannibal does therapy...oooffffff.....