Why the recent groundswell support for a one-state solution to the conflict? | Finkelstein (2015)
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2024
- This is an excerpt from Norman Finkelstein’s address to the UCD Philosophy Society, University College Dublin, on the current state of the occupied territories.
In his address, Dr Finklestein discusses the recent conflicts in the occupied territories which followed the kidnapping and killing of three Israeli youths and a Palestinian teen; Israel's anti-missile defence system, the Iron Dome; Isreal’s Operation Protective Edge; and possible ways to resolve the conflict.
Finkelstein, a political scientist, has written extensively on the political, social and historical state of Israel and the occupied territories. He famously and successfully dismantled and deconstructed 'From Time Immemorial' by Joan Peters which, at the time, was considered a foundational and invaluable text on the Palestine - Israel Conflict.
Finkelstein received his doctorate in 1988 from the Department of Politics at Princeton University. He currently teaches at Sakarya University’s Center for Middle Eastern Studies in Turkey. He is the author of ten books that have been translated into 50 foreign editions. The title of his latest book is Method and Madness: The hidden story of Israel’s assaults on Gaza.
“Mr Finkelstein's research is certainly thorough. His characterisations, too, can be brilliant, and he spares nobody...” The Economist (2012).
I cannot believe there were so few people at this gig. NF is the man
because he is wrong
@@richardbrooks4114 you wrong
@@sanijeman6941 there can never be a compromise as long as Arabs want to murder jews, and jews dont want to be murdered....
Finkelstein, you are the best.
A great great man with eloquent speech and great wisdom.
Yes Omar, if Jews and Muslims fallow there Religion, word by word, it leads into religios fashism. Israel must find an end of Occupation and a one state solution, with equal RIGHTS. Avram himself he stood in peace with he's best friend, Malki Zadik, the canaanite King of Jerusalem. On He's grave tomb Machpela, Hebron, we should remind on this fact, Jews and Arabs, Ishaq and Ismail. The condition of Ghaza must find an end soon. It has become a concetration camp of Suffernis. Here in Germany we've a new movement where Jews, Christians and Muslims pray together, the house of One. Salam alaikum, Allah Hu abha.... God is Beauty 🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️🪔❤️🌄🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️
Except that he now completely contradicts everything he says in this speech.
He is insanely honest ❤️
Norman, in Israel you also need a Bodyguard. To struggle as a Jew for peace in Israel, is a dangerous job. Also abrought. Here in Germany we have a new movement for that, The house of One. It is a 🪔for Peace. Be blessed. Shalom akshav.
Nonsense, almost nobody has a bodyguard
ISRAEL
- Arab Supreme Court judge
- Countless Arab judges
- Arab police chiefs
- Arab MPs
- 1/3 of all Israeli doctors are Arabs (same with university professors)
- Freedom of speech & religion
- Arab government ministers
Arafat died as one of the world's richest dictators
IMF still searching for MISSING 70 BILLION $ FOR PALESTINE
ALL US, EU, Arab countries & UN aid funds stolen
Only recipient - Suha Arafat his dear & beloved wife ($40,000,000)
Escaped France (embezzlement)
Stripped of Tunisian citizenship-corruption
HAMAS COVENANT (Aug 18, ’88)
ISRAE DESTRUCTION through Jihad "Israel will exist “UNTIL JIHAD OBLITERATES IT” Article 13: “ No solution for Palestinian question except Jihad." [P. 7] Article 11: “Palestine - an Islamic land for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day.
Finkelstein is absolutely right here.
yep. he and others are paid to perpetuate violence. willing to throw Arabs and Jews under the bus to make some money, knowing full well it only causes pain on both sides.
Norman is correct and sane. It never ceases to amaze me how far out some leftists are. The fact this is even a debate is delusional
Except that Norman NOW contradicts everything he says here, acknowledges that two state is dead and one state is the way forward. He also says that he is the most optimistic he's been in years, so he apparently thinks one state, the only game in town if two states is dead, has a good chance of success. Not the most consistent guy.
@@phasespace4700 Except he doesn't say that. He never says the two state is more dead than one and that the one state is the way forward. In his words, if half a loaf of bread is unrealistic then why is getting the whole loaf more feasible? This is very elementary fundamental logic that having to debate it is astonishing. If getting Gaza and the West Bank is undoable for a Palestinian state, then how in the hell is getting the entire country of Israel and overthrowing the entire state of Israel more doable in the immediate future? It's completely out to lunch, bat shit insane and Norman as well as Chomsky have the honesty to say so. Good for them.
@@rypoelk997 Wrong! You're looking at OLD footage. He now says, in many videos you can google, "two states is DEAD"
For example, Google *Norman Finkelstein speaks to MEE about Israel’s latest offensive* which is from a week ago. many other videos where he says two states is dead. It's a fact.
Further, to ask what ISRAEL will accept is a dumb way to approach the issue. Israeli sentiment is irrelevant to the whole equation, because ANY solution to the conflict will have to be imposed on Israel against their will. That is a certainty.
@@phasespace4700 He says that two state isn't as feasible as it once was and we should prioritize ending the blockade and illegal settlements in the immediate term. That is not an advocation of a one state over a two state or saying that a two state is completely dead. That is a completely incorrect reading of what he said/says. Good for Chomsky also staying honest on this.
@@rypoelk997 Chomsky and Finkelstein are bright people. They are NOT infallible and nearly everyone TOTALLY disagrees with them on one state and on BDS. That's Jeff Halper, Ilan Pappe, Gideon Levy, Amira Hass, Tony Judt, Virginia Tilley, John Mearsheimer, Rashid Khalidi, Ali Abunimah and on and on and on.
Avi Shlaim, once a two-state proponent is completely behind one state and acknowledges that he now understands two state was always a charade and method of Israeli land confiscation. He had this to say about BDS:
_BDS is a global grass-roots movement which has been gathering support at a very impressive pace and it has had a large number of successes with major companies divesting from Israel. It has also had considerable impact on public opinion throughout the world, delegitimising the Israeli occupation. The Israelis take it very seriously. They have formed a unit with a budget of GBP 40 million in order to fight BDS by launching personal attacks on individuals and delegitimising them rather than engaging with the arguments of BDS. The only hope that the Palestinians have is through BDS.__
That's the consensus view. Finkelstein's condemnation of BDS has been a sickening disgrace. There's nothing else you can call it.
Mr. Finkelstein ( sorry if i mistake the spelling ) how are you doing? I watching your lecture almost every day. You are awesome. Keep going. May God gives you strength.
One secular democratic state with a strong constitution. no Jewish state. no Islamic State. no religious bullshit.
Who will make that? Nither the Israelis nore the Palestinians want that.
Would likely result on sectarian violence there's no reason why Israel/Palestine would not be like lebanon, no one wants civil war.
@@theendlesslights Palestinans want that but Zionists and rothschild dont want that they want state only for jews great Israel from Nile to Furate
I believe it to be the best option too, in a perfect utopian world, but unfortunately in our world this is pure fantasy
Think Norman is on the point her, probably a loot of people even Palestinians invested in this freeze of the conflict.
Why the recent groundswell of support for a one state solution? Simple. The support comes from those that want to destroy the Jewish state and have found a way to do it without resorting to force (and losing as usual). But we have no intention of committing suicide. So there will be no one state solution. Thank you Professor Finkelstein for your honesty.
@@lobotobot154 If it makes you feel good to actually believe in that little wishful dream of yours then be my guest. But I can promise you that Israel (and Jews) will be around long after you are nothing more than dust and completely forgotten. Count on it.
The conflict won’t end as long as there are ignorant people thinking that god gave them a land lol.
@@user-db7dg9vc9z The conflict won't end as long as there are greedy ignorant people who are unwilling to share the land. But don't worry. We are here to stay whether you like it or not. And there is nothing you can do about it either. LOL.
@@davestonehill6177
Actually, I’m not a Palestinian, and no human on this planet is supposed to share his land, go back to where you came from.
@@davestonehill6177this comment aged poorly
NF is able offer some thoughts on the problem of a solution after the UCD chancer trying to impress with a question about a "one state solution" that has ZERO chance. As NF says- how could a one state option be anywhere near reality, that isnt anywhere near close to whats currently possible or even suggested in the news? His audience should have pushed him instead to reconcile MAO'S mass murders of chinese with his philosophy of "liberation".
An unsold soul ✨️ ❤️
IF the only thing in the way of a two state solution are too many illegal settlers then...... REMOVE THE ILLEGAL SETTLERS. The one state solution is nonsense.
Norman is an honorable man!
The March of Dimes is still around
There is indeed a one state solution to the conflict, and it is the most likely "solution" given the current reality of the settlements. The problem is that it is not the classic left-wing idea, but a right-wing one, or the "Glickian" model. Israel annexes the West Bank--not Gaza--and, assuming the demographic calculations are correct, it will be able to maintain its status as a Jewish state while, at least nominally, the Palestinians are granted equal rights.
That will probably be met with high condemnation. This isn't 1981 where Israel can just annex territories of such a size without facing blowback.
But the only thing is to wait and see. I think that 'model' is just something you talk about when you are in Israel at the coffee shop.
If there are 1 million Palestinians in the WB and Israel annexex it. Adding onto the already 1.7 Israeli Arabs. The Arab population of Israel will become 33-35%
If we are to believe the population of the WB is at 2 million (which is what is said) then Israels Arab population after annexation will become 46% and eventually outnumber the Jewish population.
Jewish will never be a majority in the former land of British Palestine. And Palestinians on the region will always fight for equality, even if Israel manages to stablish a state where they are the majority by separating Palestinians lands
Is that not a two-state solution? Israel and Gaza.
Gaza is a de facto state of sorts already.
I like the one country solution with several states, Jerusalem as the capital. A capital for all citizens in this unified country. Am I crazy? Call this country Jerusalem, with the capital of the same name, like Mexico and Mexico City. ODS sounds good to me. It makes me sad that it looks like a fantasy...
There is a reason why no one supports 1 state solution.
we are talking about 2 people with VERY BIG sense of nationality. 1 state solution will lead to a civil war that makes syria civil war look like a child play.
@@dorazati4905 :( but what's the alternative?? I know this issue is complicated and i don't expect you to give me a solution through a youtube conversation. I'm just sighing out loud
@@saraafonso4646 The solution is something that no one is talking about. everyone is talking about how to fight israel but no one is talking about how to help the palestinian.
fighting israel WONT help the palestinians.
1) help PLO to get stronger in the west bank, they are losing the west bank to hamas.
2) help the PLO get control of gaza and kick hamas.
3)send every money, aid, etc ONLY to the PLO so that if hamas want anything they will need to beg the PLO. put international sanction on anyone that sends anything to anyone that is not the PLO.
the palestinians are stuck in deep chaos, just ending the occuption wont help if the palestinians cant do anything with it.
people are so focused in fighting israel that they forgot that the palestinians need help first.
there is alot more to do but thats the first step in the right direction.
A significant number of Palestinians do support one-state solution, especially in the face of the Trump annexation plan. It's Israel who opposes the one-state solution at all costs, because that would mean that Israel-Palestine would no longer be a Jewish state. (And that would have been a good thing - I don't want a Jewish state any more than I want a White state, as in the apartheid South Africa.)
@@MikeRosoftJH lol you have no idea about the conflict
You want arabs to kill all the jews
Hell, we'll just make the whole world one state while we're at it. Gene Roddenberry said we can do it.
Fink can't let go of the two state fantasy. The answer is simple. Pull the plug on Israel. They totally depend on foreign $$ to survive. Shut the spigot.
I always believe in One state for all the people living in that land. One new name(Lets say "Holyland" ) for example one new flag & Anthem. Then the Majority can live in peace. However you will in reality have die hards on both how believe in their old Palestine or Israel. No settlement would have to be knocked. Just change of name & flag for Jews, Muslims & Christians. This proposal it's for the people to decide .
I can speak for Israel in that most Jews, myself included, will reject it.
@Ronie Lavon True but I know what most Jews and Israelis would say because I know public sentiment here
@Ronie Lavon Israel
@Ronie Lavon Israel hasn't rejected the two state solution. It offered reasonable compromises but the Palestinians launched the Second Intifada and after Israel withdrew from Gaza they launched rocket attacks. So Israel going right wing is a reasonable response. Israel rejects the "democratic" one state solution because it's not democratic to merge foreign nations and the end result would be a civil war, one state would just be torn apart and violently partitioned into two states. Anyway Israel isn't "slaughtering" people in Gaza, Gaza is de facto an independent state already since Israel withdrew but Israel has to respond to all the rocket attacks.
BTW the status quo has changed a lot. 53 years ago Israel had total rule over both the West Bank and Gaza, today it's gone from Gaza and significant chunks of the West Bank are under the Palestinian Authority.
@Ronie Lavon Very few people venerate Yigal Amir. You also forgot that Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert offered two states but were rebuffed. Ariel Sharon unilaterally pulled out of Gaza.
i knew you had it in ypu. heya1 regret painful what's happening, guyt.
One thing he didn't mention is a strong, organised, support from the Israeli citizenship. that could've had an effect, while the ability of Netanyahu to scare voters to the polls with stories of mass Arab voter turnout is it's basic flaw.
Emm... No. One-state solution as a 'secular, non-Jewish, non-Islamic, add adjective' is NOT supported in Israel. Why? Because it's Yugoslavia, and it most probably will break up on national republics, plus Israelis want a Jewish state as it is NOW. Seriously, one of emails in Brennan emails about BDS talks about it, and the author respects one staters, pinkly swear.
What Israelis really think is this. Okay, let's just hammer on with annexation, those who live in West Bank and still want to in ISRAEL (underlined) will get passports, those who don't- will get paid by Israel to leave to the country of their(Palestinuan) choice. For example , under area C annexation plan( which I still view as a bad move for Israel and especially the concept of a Palestinian state) Israel will give passports to arabs who live there.
funni that the one state solution was inposed on south africa and rodecia but israel is the exeption
Finkelstein is probably right, but one state is also the CORRECT position! It was Jon Kerry who said Israel cannot be both Jewish and democratic. Well then duh...Israel needs to be democratic! Obviously. The reason this is even a debate is because US support and the powerful Israeli lobby having a stranglehold in any discussion of a non-Jewish Israel. Do people realize a "Jewish State" is a theocracy...worse than that as Judaism is defined as an ethnicity. Very few countries today still claim ethnic purity. Many countries, from democracies to one party states, try to govern multiple ethnicities within their borders. Israel however is unique in that it doesnt even want to try.
God trapped Israelis, if you don't like two states, then you can have one state. If you don't like both then chosen rock in the hard place. God is asking Israel to remove that ROCK.
"When a conflict has gone on this long, people become invested in its perpetuation"
Do you think maybe that's describing you, Norman?
He literally said that in the video that he wouldn't know what to do if the conflict ended
RIP Qaddafi, Sarkozy the f. war criminal
parole, parole, parole...
Salk had the polio vaccine!
Gaza should go back to Egypt and all in the west bank should be able to apply for citizenship if they wish.
Let's give all who are already there the best chance at happiness and prosperity and freedom ❤😇❤
Sabin invented the oral Polio vaccine which was easier to administer, more effective, and longer lasting. Sabin chose not to patent his version of the vaccine in order to keep the price low and remove profit motive from the pharmaceutical companies. He never made a penny off the vaccine. Side note: Both Salk and Sabin were Jewish.
supporter of one state solution - However, it is impossible to achieve if the palestinians refuse to adopt it. Once they accept it as the only possibility (i.e 2 state solution is dead, which it is, based on the settler expansionism) - then the one state becomes a rallying call amongst the all palestinians, then all arabs, then all arab nations, then most non-arab nations - that kind of support will force the kind of change necessary to change the conflict. The two state solution is dead.
the one-state solution is an inevitability. because israel will eventually encompass all of the West Bank.
so the question is not a one-state vs two-state solution. the question is whether palestinian arabs should be granted citizenships and equal rights in Israel. Problem for the zionists is that then it will no longer be a jewish state, and perhaps not even a liberal democracy. frankly, i dont know if arabs were going to maintain democracy if they become the majority in Israel.
@@stenergut9661 I do not think that we will live to see a resolution of this conflict within our lifetimes. As it stands, the the conflict has evolved drastically in the last 20 years - and it will continue to evolve in the coming generations. I foresee that the Palestinians will largely come to accept that there is no possibility for Palestinian state as they become more and more dependent on the Israel for their their needs (they already are almost entirely dependent for most basic needs) - the coming generations will most likley begin to demand equal rights and equal representation within the Israeli government. They will fight for Gaza and the Arab parts of the West Bank to be recognized as a independant provinces within Israel. Before long, the international community will likley ralley behind the idea is settlers continue their expansion within the west bank and the world realizes that there really is no two state solution. We will, at that point, see a the confilct morph into an south african apartheid like conflict in the next 50-100 years - Maybe then, we will come to see some form of peace - however it is guaranteed to be an encridibally difficult road ahead with no one actually making any concessions, but wrather having to face the consequences of the reality before them.
RandomChannel We already see what's happening in Lebanon
What makes you think the same thing won't apply in a binational state? Forget about annexation the socioeconomic disparity between arabs and jews in Israel today are huge the funds are in jewish towns , schools , hospitals , recreation parks etc. Israeli jews earn twice more than their arab counterparts inside israel this would fuel more resentment and basically an invitation for more radicals like Daesh (Isis) , Al Qaeda etc.
ISRAEL
- Arab Supreme Court judge
- Countless Arab judges
- Arab police chiefs
- Arab MPs
- 1/3 of all Israeli doctors are Arabs (same with university professors)
- Freedom of speech & religion
- Arab government ministers
Arafat died as one of the world's richest dictators
IMF still searching for MISSING 70 BILLION $ FOR PALESTINE
ALL US, EU, Arab countries & UN aid funds stolen
Only recipient - Suha Arafat his dear & beloved wife ($40,000,000)
Escaped France (embezzlement)
Stripped of Tunisian citizenship-corruption
HAMAS COVENANT (Aug 18, ’88)
ISRAE DESTRUCTION through Jihad "Israel will exist “UNTIL JIHAD OBLITERATES IT” Article 13: “ No solution for Palestinian question except Jihad." [P. 7] Article 11: “Palestine - an Islamic land for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day.
00:00 I thought the question was should Judea be part of Israel as one state instead of an independant Fatah state. Norman seems to have interpreted the question to mean should Fatah be the government for all of Israel and that may actually be what the questioner means. That is just totally evil though. It is obvious to me that Israel would do a much better job of protecting rights in Judea than Fatah and Judea should not be an independent Arab state run by Fatah. If Judea was made part of Israel fully then things would greatly improve.
I haven't heard any1 crying 4 a one-state solution; that would mean that Israel annexed Jordan. The Palestinian Mandate was divided between Muslims & Jews (like India & Pakistan). Big part went to Palestinian Muslims = Jordan. Israel got small part. Why wud any1 demand that the Palestinians now got half of Israel, making 2 Palestinian states? Any1 think Pakistan shud give half to India now?
You threw the Palestinians to the desert (Jordan), and you gave Palestine to the Zionists, you have to know that Palestine before the establishment of the State of Israel were 500,000 people in this land.
This land our ancestors fought to reclaim, we are the original inhabitants of this land.
Finally, Britain and France are not the ones who determine our fate, and they have nothing to do with giving our holiest land to Europeans who claimed to be Jews and the chosen people of God.
Lol how is Jordan is the big part? 90% of Jordan is literally an unsurvivable desert, only a small strip of land by the Jordan river is liveable
if god want Israel it will happen. He rise people up with wisdom to solve the social issue that causing Israel to not be one. however muslims will never accept it and there hated will spend to christians. christian and jew can lived together and israel is just one great awaken away for being one state where Palestinians and jews live in peace.
You know Palestinians are Muslims and Christians also Israel denies access to Palestinian Christians too
Not only that there’s a higher percentage of Christians Palestinians(2.5%)the Christian Israelis(2%)
ALSO Muslims Christians and Jews lived together with ottoman rule. Arabs don’t hate Jews or Christians they hate Israel
Full of Nonsense!
Snake.
Why because he speaks the truth?
@@warpedcomedy Because Finkelstein supports the two state solution even tho there shouldn't be a zionist state at all..
ShukranTV Ofc he does read the reason why Israel was established
A safety net for persecuted jews.
"The return of Palestinian refugees and displaced persons wherever they are located if that is their so wish. It is not admissible that Jews, who were not originally inhabitants of Palestine, and whose ancestors were not originally inhabitants of the country, can be brought in from abroad, while Palestinians, who fled Palestine as refugees and displaced persons only a short time ago, following the 1948 war, are not accorded the same right. The Jews maintain that they did not expel the Palestinians. They say that the Palestinians believed the propaganda claims and fled their homes. It is sufficient to note that one of the most famous zealots, Samuel Katz, a member of the first Knesset, and leader of the Herut movement and the Etzel National Military Organization, cited the words of Glubb Pasha: “The Arab citizens were seized with terror and fled their villages without being exposed to any threat during the war”.
THE FUNDAMENTAL HISTORICAL SOLUTION “Isratine”: A Single State for Jews and Palestinians-Muammar Gadhafi
(The White Book) algaddafi.org
I never believe those zioni bla bla bla! War in 1948??? Not war but genocides! EU need those type of zioni back to EU
there will be one state because it would be suicide for Israel to leave the WB but Israel won't do it until enough Arabs have left the WB and enough Jews have populated it.
Move to US, EU or Poland! The Arabs world doesn’t need them! Pack and go!
@@sanijeman6941 FYI, half the Israeli population are descended from refugees from Arab lands, should they go back there? Arab mostly ignore them, they have enough trouble dealing ith their own governments. It is Iran [who should stop employing 1000s of thugs to beat up women who don't wear their scarves in an approved style] that cannot abide 10m Jews minding their own business 400 km away.
One Jewish state will happen soon.
Hel