This is a very insightful analysis, elucidated brilliantly and no way a ramble, great work James & thank you for taking the time. Oh and you were dead right about the GT3 market.
Just purchased an 1985 944. Chose it as i liked them growing up, simple to work on and a great drive. I agree with everything you said, the decision was not based on how much I'd make, but how much i wont lose. Sort of driving a portion of your savings account that if you have a rainy day can be sold for about what you paid.
Buy what you can afford to run, buy what you are passionate about and buy something you like to drive. That way when you open your garage door your breath catches when you see your dream car and your face is split by a grin every time you drive it. If it makes you money when it comes to sell that's just a bonus.
2018 X5. Purchased last year for £58k. It’s worth today at trade in £38k. £20k loss in 7 months. Big German cars lose money faster than the Bank of England in 2007.
The problem with the older cars, everyone is setting them up as classics, everywhere i look, ebay, car and classic everyone is trying to flog something as a future classic. Often they aren't and will never be a classic so they always want more money for them. One car I wished i bought and was seriously looking at buying around 8 years ago was a Lancia Delta Integrale, then a good one was 20k now they go for 60k upwards and are stunning cars!
I agree 100%. Cars are terrible financial investments. But they are fun and enjoyable investments. What I like to do is purchase semi rare sports cars once they are about 5-6 years old. Often times they are close to max deprecation. Then drive for about 5 years or more. I had a 2003 BMW M3 Vert that I bought used and drove for 5 years. I purchased for $22K US with only 32K miles. I sold with 70K miles for exactly what I originally paid for it. Did I make money? No!!! I had years of paying insurance, oil changes etc... but no real maintenance issues. But I drove one of my favorite M3's for 5 years. If I purchased a NEW BMW for $70K and drove for 5 years - I would have lost close to $35K to $40K in deprecation + Tax + Oil Changes + Insurance etc....Now I have 2013 BMW M3 E93 that I plan on driving for many years. I think I bought this close to the bottom of depreciation too. purchased in 2018 for $31K with only 39K miles. But Im not looking at this as an investment. Im viewing this as a fun way to spend my money and if I need to sell - I could regain most of my initial investment. But who knows maybe it will go up....But I doubt it!
Agree 100% on the advice at the start - don't buy a car purely to make money, buy a car you love and if it retains or increases in value then great, if not then hey, you still have a car you love. Part of me loves the idea of buying a small industrial unit and scooping up a few cheap cars that I love (Renault Clio 182, Ford Puma 1.7, Integra Type-R DC2) and a lift and tools to work and maintain them with, and if they go up in money great, if not then I have some of my favourite cars there and ready to drive, tinker with, etc. Wife less keen on that idea though...
Nope, standard Puma. As you say, buy a car you love and don't care if it goes up in value. I like the standard Puma, I almost bought one on a number of occasions. If I could find one with solid bodywork and reasonable mileage I'd bite the sellers hand off. It was well regarded, they are pretty cheap, and I like it. Could make a bit or at least not lose money as the rest rot away... If I bought a Racing Puma I'd be paying a big premium for a car that to DRIVE is largely worse in the hope that it'll appreciate, when personally I think they are already overpriced.
Good advice - don't bank on these things, especially as a long term investment. I do not expect old vehicles will be a very good investment at all. The mass adoption of EV's is coming, this will increase the pressure on the viability of running fossil fuel vehicles. It's just when and how soon. I suspect the tipping point, when it comes, will be pretty quick and you might be stuck with an expensive lump sitting in storage that you can't drive easily (not many fuel stations are going to stay open for hobbyists to fill up on sunny summer Sundays) and urban environments are going to have to ban fossil fuel use fairly soon anyway.
Unless battery technology experiences a paradigm shift in terms of energy density, EV's simply won't come close to the handling and feel of a modern sports car. Yes, they may become faster in a straight line - but if that's not even accompanied by an engine note to stir the soul, or sporty handling, who actually cares? They're emotionless, fast appliances. Similarly, without enormous financial incentives & subsidies to encourage switching to electric, there will simply be just too many fossil fuel driven cars in the hands of middle & working class folk, and littered throughout developing nations - and let's not kid ourselves - auto manufacturers are in it for the money far more than they care about mankind and the planet. There is no tipping point followed by a cascade... at best, EV's will phase in gradually where existing fossil fuel driven cars in the hands of Joe Everyman are simply no longer practical to keep running, and it becomes financially viable for them to get into EV's. It's doubtful we'll see the day where EV's outnumber fossil fuel cars any time in the next 30 years - never mind an altogether displacement. Mass adoption of EV's would be all the more reason for fossil fuel vehicles to become a hobby for the well-heeled, who don't need to worry about popping down to their local fuel station for fuel... and for services like fuel deliveries and specialty part manufacturing to take off. Where there's a will, there's a way. Imagine the surge in demand for internal combustion engine Porsches, the day that Porsche announces a switch to EV-only production? If vinyl records can make a comeback and become sought after in a digital age, so can internal combustion engines hold widespread appeal in an electric age. And a supercar will always remain a supercar - no teenage boy has a Tesla poster on his bedroom wall.
@@Gr0t0tter If IC cars become hobby for well heeled and not something that everyone aspires, the demand for IC cars will plummet and supply being the same, prices will drop too Vinyl records have made comeback but what is vinyl's marketshare and how large is the economy related to vinly compared to days when vinyl was the main format?
I think if manufacturers keep on pushing electric cars more and more people are just going to keep their existing cars longer. Could strengthen old car values................
I watched another channel the other day and in the comments section , some chap mentioned his second hand car business has been decimated by the rise of the PCP contract , nobody wants reasonably priced used cars anymore , instead everyone wants shiny new vehicles on their driveway to impress their neighbours , meanwhile the manufacturers keep their customers on a conveyor belt of perpetual debt, constantly upgrading vehicles for new ones at the end of every contract , so used or even classic cars become irrelevant to all but a minority of petrolheads like us. Maybe that will affect car values in the future, aspirational millennials not interested in classic cars at all.
Purchased Mk1 Focus RS in 2008. Added 20k miles in 11 years to it (5k in a single month). Made a few thousand selling this year. I sold as I wasn’t enjoy it, wasn’t driving it and it was just a garage ornament costing me mot, tax, insurance, service and maintenance. Over all a crap investment but compared to other cars of the time pretty good. I’ve got a 911 Turbo now as I love cars, love driving and it was my poster car of the day (well the 993/996 turbo were). It’s already broke after only 6 months and had its engine fully removed but I didn’t buy to make money. I bought to enjoy it... and as your recent video details... it’s bloody brilliant 👍🏻
You just gave the best advice ever to a Car lover. My dream car has always been the De Lorean, I could afford one around 20k and now it is 40k to get one in bad condition. I lost my chance, but I bought myself a nice GT86 in order to have a nice daily instead.
Completely agree. I look at it more from the angle of which car would I lose the least money on and yet still gives me loads of fun. I bought a 996 C2 manual and couldn’t be happier.
Great video James! I fully agree with you... The "boom period" is over now, there is no doubt about that. During the last 7 years or so I personally made quite a bit of money by riding the crest of the classic car wave, flipping lots of classics that were rapidly appreciating. I bought and sold mainly 928's interestingly, but lots of other cars, air cooled 911, 924 turbos, 944's of all sorts, the odd Lotus, the odd classic Mercedes or BMW (manual 635CSI was a particular favourite). Hot hatches, oddities (CX GTI Turbo II as an example). Basically anything that seemed too cheap and was easy to add value to. I'd buy, improve and then sell and make a very healthy margin. It was great fun but sadly those days are over now. I think it's very very difficult to make money out of specialist cars (classic, performance, modern classic etc) and it's not worth the risk any more. I now have a Lotus Esprit Turbo which I probably have too much money in but I really love owning the car, fixing it, driving it, looking at it etc. I didn't buy as an investment, instead I bought it as something to enjoy long term. I caught a bad dose of Lotus Fever so if I lose, break even or even make a few quid on it I'm still a winner. And I think that's the way to look at classic car ownership in 2019. I really think everything is at bursting point value wise now and the only way is down (or stable) for the majority of these cars... Which I'm actually glad about because the inflation we've seen over the last say 5-6 years is ridiculous!
My dad always tells the story of the 56 corvette he almost bought for about $1,00 dollars, but he realized he couldn’t fit his luggage and had to drive to college to he bought some boring thing. I never looked at him the same again.
Good video. One of the things people often forget are servicing and storage costs. Cars as an investment yield returns much lower than you think, and often it is hard to overcome the servicing, storage, insurance, and other costs related to that car as you try to wait it out for 5 years for the price to double or whatever.
Bought one of my dream cars a 1991 Audi 20 valve coupe quattro with low milage a fraction of what others are selling for which feels great but I never intend of selling it
Great comments James. In my opinion cars are not investments unless they are ultra rare with minimal mileage. Some cars may go up in value a little as they become rarer and as poor examples get crushed. However they usually will not appreciate as much as what you spend on them. What is important is to get the car you want and enjoy it. I have bought 'dream' cars thinking they will appreciate such as an F355 that is now flat-lining but has cost me £10k in 2 years and a BMW M635CSi that cost me £6k in 6 months and was sold for what I paid at a £6k loss, same for an E39 M5. Some of these 'dream' cars can have very big bills. I also had a 996 for 7 years that cost me £1k pa I consider that good value. Trouble is, as you say, speculators are now coming out of cars so the prices are falling. You can still run a car for very little at the lower ends and in the past few years I have run a B7 RS4, Accord Type R, Elise S1 & Imprezza GC8 all at a slight profit. These were my daily cars (apart from the S1) and I researched carefully what would be interesting to buy and could appreciate enough to cover their running costs. They are all what I would call 'fan boy cars' with a following where the 'fans' will always pay more for a good clean example, however you make money when you buy not when you sell so you have to bag a bargain to start with. Funnily enough next on my list was a Celica GT4 along with an Integra DC2. In terms of percentage the most money I have made has been on my NA MX5 for which I paid £1,700 for a 2 owner, 50k mile car with FSH. I have had that 4 years and I expect it has tripled in price. I think the lower end of the market is where the fun will be with the highest percentage gains. If you ask me what will be valuable in 20+ years time I would say go out and buy a McLaren 12C coupe, one of the first 100 cars built in the MTC on the SLR line by McLaren engineers. Even still it will cost you £8k pa to maintain and warrant over 20 years which means it needs to appreciate to over £300k and TBH who can be bothered waiting that long! Buy what you like and enjoy it, budget for it costing you money but if it appreciates and pays for itself then that's a bonus.
All of my toys are investments. I should have bought a 993 turbo back in 2000 when they were going for 50 grand. I looked at one, drove it, didn't like that you had to stand on the brakes to make it stop, and bought an M3. Ah well, at least I got in on Les Pauls and Lionel trains.
Even though I don't think that buying a car solely for investment purposes is a good idea, my whole channel is dedicated to the depreciation and appreciation of cars. I always take a data-driven approach to analyze the different cars and this sometimes yields surprising insights. Likewise to some of your conclusion in the video, I found that the prices of the 996 4S for example, already inflated so much that making money out of them will be tricky. Alternatively, prices of the 996 Carrera 2 still have some room to move up.
My guess is that air-cooled 911 (especially 993) and the embodiment of a brand (MK I Golf GTI, Audi S1, BMW E92 M3...) or like he said the last generation of something which is most often the best generation, like of air-cooled, naturally aspirated or even sporty cars without electric-power-steering will appreciate because the younger generations will not be able to buy these from any car-manufacturer anymore. Thus, if you want to experience those relicts you habe no other choice than ask a friend who ones one if you can drive it or buy one yourself. This adds to the coolness (imagine being the shit for owning a car that everybody loves) which, in my opinion, is a crucial point when it comes to appreciation. Great video. You deserve more views and subscribers! Now guess my age. I am nineteen
After 30 years of buying and selling cars every 2-3 years and always losing money (doing the usual and buying nearly new, or new cars) I recently bought a 1985 R107 Mercedes SL and a 1996 W124 Mercedes E320 Estate. I may, or may not, make any money on either of those cars but I won’t lose much either. Yes I can expect some additional servicing costs but insurance is cheaper, road tax is cheaper (and soon to be free on the SL), parts are relatively cheap (certainly compared to new OEM parts on my old Audi) and I enjoy driving them. Moreover, I almost always get someone come up to me, even driving the estate, asking about the car, wanting to know more about it, or just saying how much they like it. That never happened to me when I was driving my much more expensive and more modern cars. I don’t see them as an investment although it has to be said that I bought the SL largely because interest rates on bank accounts are so low. But I do think that, overall, I will be much better off driving these older cars than I would be otherwise.
I have my dream car vw corrado vr6 in ice grey violet my dream car I love driving it but I now that it's a car that will decrease in price but good thing I'll never sell it
Totally agree. Find something that has hit the bottom of the depreciation curve, something that was coveted when new, that changed the market, or was revolutionary and was made in low numbers. One that fits most of that was the first Audi TT, Clean 225 bhp? But future classic like a MGB, it’s not gonna make lots of money. So drive them, don’t speculate in them!
I've lost minimal amounts on most of mine as i've bought at time of bottomed out depreciation. BUT, one tripled in value. A 1992 Corrado G60, i shipped it to Australia and enjoyed it there for 4 or 5 years, then sold it for 3 times what i paid 6 years beforehand :D Hoping my 997.2 doesn't come down too much but really i bought it because i wanted it!
"If you are thinking about buying a car just for investment, then just stop right now." Wise words indeed. Completely agree with you Jay, buy a car you love. If it happens to make money, then call that a bonus!
Nice insight... I agree that in reality the best you can hope for is to draw even, especially if you're actually using the car. With running costs and servicing, a vehicle would have to appreciate a few thousand ever year just to draw even. Buy cheap and high miles and enjoy the thing... there's nothing worse than stressing about money every time you get the car out of the garage!
You nailed it, James. I drive cars that I really enjoy, but I never pay more than I can afford to lose. If I have to just write the damn thing off for some reason, I'll be fine.
Doubled my money on an integrale Evo over my 14 years of ownership but that was just how the market had gone - I bought it cos it was my dream car (within my budget) not to potentially make money - now I have an Elise - same thing, bought it cos I love it - shouldn't lose money on it but not really bothered about making money either - bought both 'dream cars' or 'modern classics' cos I was passionate about the cars - simple; buy what you love
I love it when Cletus stands, legs akimbo, lecturing us in his best headmaster's voice. It is, without doubt, one of the greatest experiences to be had on UA-cam. That being said, in my far from humble opinion, speculating on cars is akin to digging a hole in your back yard, and shovelling £20 notes into it. However, I too have had my fingers burned with car purchasing, in that my 14 years old Micra steadfastly refuses to increase in value. I obviously read the runes wrong, to my considerable cost. By the way, Cletus, what has happened to that Mercedes Benz you purchased recently; have you mothballed it⁉️🤑💸🤬🤬🤬
Great video and really good advice. In my case I have done well by buying cars I really like/wanted, using them pretty much as second cars, servicing them myself and then selling a few years later when I got bored. I have owned 3 air cooled 911s (1971, and 1984's) and sold all at a profit, one 1977 308 at a profit and one 1971 Dodge Challenger at a profit. I am in the US and all the cars were bought locally and enjoyed by us for years before selling and not bought to make money. Of that list I think all are now over valued other than a Challenger. Another benefit of older cars is of course low insurance and in many places no road tax. I now have a 635i which I think is a current bargain. Would also think an early S8 and maybe a 6 cylinder XJR and XJS worth a look,. 360 coupe may be too as they are pretty cheap right now and I think have bottomed and will age well. Early Evora and Maserati Grandsport maybe too. I also think a newer Dodge Challenger (2009-11 high performance models) will hold its money and appreciate and they are one of the few modern classics that are actually practical for a family and super reliable. Obviously physically big in the UK but a friend has one in Spain and loves it as a non depreciating daily.
Good advice as usual. I love a bit of waffle. I was browsing on ebay on another screen and half listening but I heard pretty much all of it. I bought my E34 M5 for £4,695, spent about £1,000 a year for 9 years bringing it up to completely original spec and sold it last spring for £10,000. At the time some were being offered for around £15,000 to £20,000 but those prices were speculative. Now they probably only go for £11,000 to £12,000 for a similar one. So I had nine years of almost free motoring in an iconic car but I never really had an investment on my hands.
Ramble away mate, everything you said is true!long story short..... 9 years back I lusted and nearly bought a speed yellow aero kitted 996C2 which just happened to have been previously owned by a pal. It was £19k and I couldn’t just afford it . My e30 m3 and e36 328is needed to go and then add some! Sold the e30 and bought a e46m3 for £14k with 64k miles. Roll on 9 years... the m3!is still here now with 91k miles with a speed yellow c4 aero kitted 996 sitting next to it! Paid £18500 for it. If they both stay the same in terms of value then I’ve won! But really, it’s my dream garage and if both cars hold their respective current values then I’m more than happy 😉 cheap motoring. But honestly, All the track days and ring trips in the M are worth more to me than values. Increasing/ maintaining a value is just a bonus of owning a really great car! I hope the newly purchased 996 offers me a similar owners experience ..... great vlog by the way 👌🏻
If you enjoy driving classic cars forget about investment. But what you can do is buy certain cars and enjoy them for a year or two. Then sell them and get all of your money back. Then carefully choose your next car you have always wanted to enjoy.
Actually the Ford Capri is a great example if you own the car for a few years and use it you may not make a fortune with it but if you take a very popular car like say the celica and own it for say 5 years then you will probably double your money minus general maintenance, however looking to make more money in a short period is highly unlikely, having said that I doubled my money in 2 years buying a Toyota MR2 Turbo because the prices doubled in that time but that was mainly luck.
V12 vantage s manual is my bet for future residuals. V12, no turbos, no Mercedes involvement, not many made and of course I’m biased because I own one.
Cars at the minute are horrendous. They just arent selling and people are asking way too much money. I had my corrado for sale for about a year. Priced alongside others but just no takers, reduced and reduced until i ended up getting genuine offers. I had about 6k in the car and didnt recoup half of it. Spent 2300 on it when i bought it, resprayed and mechanical work to get it mint. Enjoyed it for 2 years and lost so much on it. Buy a car to enjoy it not to make money
Hi what colour was your rado , was it a VR6, leather interior which colour ? Sometimes an unpopular colour combo can decrease the value and the Vr6 is the one that people will want. A good Vr6 with right combo , and say full suspension change , paint job , all sensors changed, good discs pads, stainless steel catback, and interior fully working should be worth 7 k in my opinion as its a pretty rare car and the first V6 R model VW released. Think the prices of these actually will increase in the next few years as most out there now have been severley modded or rotting on a driveway. The Rados age is now nearly 30 years old so most people that wanted one of these as a youngster have now got a bit of money to spend.
@@mikeyBIA I like that colour but cream leather has aged bad and not as diserable as black, and green is not most peoples cup of tea compared to , white, black, red, grey which is a safe bet. Also timing chain change will get you the top money.
@@keyo525 its the cars best colour. Look up the green storm. Thats what it was. Cream interior i understand but it was in good nick. Classic car market it just shite atm. Ive observed it with the B5 rs4s which ive just got. Theyve plummeted in value recently
@@mikeyBIA I like mine Magic Black Pearl, its actually rarer in a Vr6 then then a storm it was a runout option colour with black leather, I also have a Shrick VGI. Yeah B5 are a bargain at the moment hell of alot of car for the money .
Some good points JayEmm. Good video. I think you're a bit out on the Z4M coupe comment though, they have increased steadily over the past 4 years. They haven't exploded in value like CSL etc, but there is steady growth there for the good ones.
Steady, but slow. Mine required an O2 Sensor, which cost about the same to fix as a year's worth of appreciation. Servicing them is not cheap and you have to take them to the right place if you want them to keep their value.
Just a quick shout out. I am a Brand Ambassador for Porsche in Chicago … You do an amazing job with your videos. All your hard work is much appreciated. Dj Porsche N.A.
2 cars I'd be looking into for the poor guy wanting to earn a few quid. Standard mint Golf Mk5 GTI, Lotus Elise. I don't think these cars will depreciate and are affordable. Edit- just made to the end, I have both a Mk5 GTI and Lotus Elise S2 1zz. I moved from the UK and the Lotus since 2011 has not depreciated at all but not made any money, with the Elise line ending I think this will only appreciate, it's a daily and does not cost a lot of money to run, the Golf mk5 GTI is factory spec not messed with, I think it may drop a little but increase as even being a 2006 car in immaculate condition pretty much keeps up with or faster than everything on the road. I have another two cars which have made some money. I've owned Delta's since 1990 and kept my Evo2 bought in 2007 for 11k ukp. This was bought for passion not profit. The other car is a Golf mk2 Syncro Country 1990. I picked this up in a garage back yard for 2k euros, its had a mild restoration and full respray but worth around 12k euros. Lotus- 16k ukp purchase- 10 years daily driving, similar resale expected rise. (no huge bills) Golf Mk5 GTI- 5K eu , daily driver, similar resale expect to rise (1k euros spent on service and preservation). Lancia integrale Evo2. 11k purchase 2007. Daily driver until 2011 but undergone full restoration body and interior/engine, value 50-60k ukp. (8k euros spent) Golf mk2 Country Syncro. Purchase 2k euros, (3k euros spent) worth approx 14k Total outlay over 14 years using the cars 46k Value now- around 95k You can have fun and make a few quid if you are careful and buy at the right time.
Same advice I have been giving out for last two years to my customers Due EV’s coming on strong soon it will kill the demand for these older cars Then there will be some bargains I hope
Probably the best investment I have made was the first vehicle I bought in highschool. Which actually led to another car investment that paid off for me... kinda.
Generally I would buy a car that I want to have and like. I also would like to drive it. - Investment works everywhere the same. Stockmarket, Stamps or whatever - There is a time to buy and a time to sell. If you miss the right point in time you loose. I think even on the high level there are ups and downs - Nobody I know wants to own desperate a pre WWII Car or even one from the 50th.
Mr Boggy, I highly disagree. Not all cars are an investment, that’s a given. But it’s like saying houses are to be lived in an not an investment... very untrue, although not everyone will make money on the property they buy. Same can be said of artworks, jewellery, and any other item which can serve a purpose/enjoyment for the owner (unlike bonds) and whose resale value is at the mercy of the market
Personally if I were to sell my Integra and made no money on it. Perhaps even lost a grand, I wouldn't be too bothered. The market has been pretty stable the last few years and yes, it could appreciate but it's too difficult to say. But to buy a fun car, add a few miles to and get some fun out of while spending money on maintaining or lightly modifying like you would any other regular car, I would take as a win. Expecting to make money is where you can start going wrong.
Some good points and some obvious errors. Eg 911 R prices, £500k at one point yes, but I never saw one at £1m.+ there are always silly examples of those with more money than sense over bidding remember the 993 RS that sold for £1.8m ? Car flippers have had an impact there were over 40 GT3 991.2’s for sale at one point last year, most not even run in. You might have covered that in your last video. The issue is dealers pets buying only because they believe they will make a buck and no intention or desire to drive. The enthusiasts left high and dry by Porsche
Our 2000 Jeep Cherokee (XJ, not ZJ) 4.0 Orvis seems to be one that will actually keep going up valuewise, because if not here, it'll be elsewhere in Europe or the USA. Only 800 of them were built for the whole world, despite only ever being sold in the UK in right hand drive, and though few people may realise this, it's the highest and nicest trim level anyone could ever get of the car. One of the main reasons I'd imagine it would keep afloat is the rarity. They may have built 800 of them, and they may be the nicest model, but that doesn't mean people didn't treat them like Discoveries or Land Cruisers, because after all, this is the UK, where people usually buy relatively cheap off-roaders to thrash around the green lane. If you look on howmanyleft.co.uk, you'll see that the number of these still on the road is a pretty steep diagonal line, and we're losing around 10 of them each quarter; there are 272 4.0s around as of Q3 of last year. I calculated that within 7 years, there will be virtually none of these left. Though that being said, some will obviously be preserved, and mine will be kept, especially seeing as it's an even rarer one, having the 'Big Ton Group' towing package that gives it extra goodies, namely really good factory underseal that means the floors won't rot (which is the biggest killer of these cars), having virtually no rust at all. None of this is to say that they actually will keep going up in value, but I've kept an eye on what they're selling for. When we bought ours in April 2017 it cost £3000, but it did subsequently need another ~£3000 in work to get the drivetrain refurbished (after we'd found that it has been sat in the owner's garage for 10 years or so of its life). Since then, they've gone to £5000, then £6000 with some now selling for £10k in relatively the same condition as ours, (around 100k miles, all factory bits etc). In the early 2010s, they were worth just over what a regular old Cherokee would go for, around £1000 or less. I think that on a smaller scale, being below £15k in value, keeping a rare but desirable car as a weekend drive or a second car is a bit better of a decision. Because even if it does slump in value, you're not losing much, because it wasn't worth much in the first place. And seeing as the market for these cars in America (with much worse-spec'd versions) has sky-rocketed recently, it still has hope yet. Though that being said, we don't really keep it for the money at all - we do keep it for the enjoyment, as you say. Knowing its rarity also makes us want to hold onto it and preserve it too 😁 A great video though as always Jay, and on a good subject too. Keep up the good work!
I suspect the big driver of this is QE. Post 2008, all the cash being injected into western economies through bond buying programmes had to go somewhere; equities first, then property, art, wine, classic cars, you name it. Anything that might hold its value. Now that we're into the Quantiative Tightening phase, prices are starting to come back to earth.
@@Chrissy-H As said in the video, 5 - 10 thousand on a 180,000 car will affect it in not a jot of a way. Very happy with my toy and happy to use it as much as possible.
My 924 cost £286 3 years ago.........all of the 'experts' said I'd 'gone mad.......van engine' blah blah blah. The price has just started to go daft and the van engine turns out to have originally been a Daimler Benz block!
This was a very interesting video and no way were you wafflying on however what if your an average person like myself who wants to buy a either a sports car/classic car to enjoy over the summer months what would be the best car to do that
Keep waffling, Mister. You talk a lot of very articulate sense. A lot of cars became classics and therefore appreciated for all kinds of reasons. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The Austin-Healey 3000 mark 3 was a fairly mundane car (slightly cheaper than the A120) but it’s value now outstrips all kinds of exotica. The classic car market does not favour complicated cars (hence why most Mk 2 Jags were scrapped). Just drive and enjoy your car then or now.
Car is very rarely an investment since it does not generate stream of income. Rather it is speculation, a bet that it will hopefully increase it's value in future.
Can you make money on cars. Yes. Cars have no capital gains tax. Cars are literally the ONLY tax exempt commodity because of this people use them to move investments out of volitile investment markets, You can move cars around the world without capital gains tax, this is why some classic cars increase so dramatically in value. Even a cheap classic will end up being positive equity. I drive 2 Saab 900s. Both are now worth more than when I bought them, including any costs attributed to maintaining them. I also have a kawasaki I paid £1,600 for which is now worth somewhere around £6,000, That increase happened in 3 years. (mainly due to kawasaki releasing a new z900 which to a lot of people wasn't what they wanted, making the big retro kawasakis prices shoot up as they offered what customers actually wanted). The hard part is predicting what till go up in value. Old Porsches are probably a safe bet. Anything with "cult" status.
Maybe not a good investment but a slow depreciation that caps at some point,maybe. I see cars that have not dropped in the past 5 years. So I got my dream car and if I take care of it then it will still have solid value in 5 to 10 years. Any other new sports car does nothing but drop every year.
I've been lucky over the last 10 years or so. Like you say you have to buy something you really want and if you loose so be it. However I always try and find a car that I think is at the bottom of its depreciation curve. I've had two 4th gen camaros, first one I lost £700 on over 5 years. Second one I made £3k on! (manual low miles etc). Currently looking at ISF's I think they are going to start going up soon for clean examples. Oh and I bought a LS400 as my daily last year and its at least doubled in value, but again is low mileage good condition and I saw they where on the rise price wise and I've wanted one for a while. Also I love it when people ask me how I afford to run the cars I choose and watch there faces when I say how do you afford X depreciation on whatever bore box they've bought.
Chris Rea had classic cars right. (This story was told to me by my dad so could well be bollocks). Was advised to buy a classic Ferrari Daytona as an investment. Shortly after this the value of Ferrari Daytona’s fell significantly. What did he do? Put a roll cage in it and took it racing. Of course now Daytona’s are worth a fortune again.
Yes, buy any 911. Don't waste your time with 928s before 1990. The GT/GTS are the only 928 cars that skyrocketed in the "collectible" market. Bought my 911SC turbo look in 2015 for $16K, right now Hagerty value is $40K.
I wrote off a 968 eight years ago that I paid £6k for, what a douchbag. However I have paid £17k for a 986 and really enjoyed owning the car selling @ £15k so if I were to buy again I’d save £10k 👍
@@JayEmmOnCars Same here you might have to think about getting one sooner or later as I actually do think these will be out of reach one day for the money that you would hapily purchase one for and deservingly so.
Interesting video, thanks. I had not heard about the crook driving his Veyron into a salt lake in the USA, and that video "Bugatti Veyron Lake Crash" has been watched almost 9 million times, and the video isn't monetised.
I don't have the money for a Ferrari.. But if I had I would drive it until it dined. People how dare to drive their cars... they can't afford the car. :D
That's just blown my perception of Boxsters being small and 928s being huge right out of the water.
This is a very insightful analysis, elucidated brilliantly and no way a ramble, great work James & thank you for taking the time. Oh and you were dead right about the GT3 market.
Just purchased an 1985 944. Chose it as i liked them growing up, simple to work on and a great drive.
I agree with everything you said, the decision was not based on how much I'd make, but how much i wont lose. Sort of driving a portion of your savings account that if you have a rainy day can be sold for about what you paid.
Buy what you can afford to run, buy what you are passionate about and buy something you like to drive. That way when you open your garage door your breath catches when you see your dream car and your face is split by a grin every time you drive it. If it makes you money when it comes to sell that's just a bonus.
2018 X5. Purchased last year for £58k. It’s worth today at trade in £38k. £20k loss in 7 months. Big German cars lose money faster than the Bank of England in 2007.
The problem with the older cars, everyone is setting them up as classics, everywhere i look, ebay, car and classic everyone is trying to flog something as a future classic. Often they aren't and will never be a classic so they always want more money for them.
One car I wished i bought and was seriously looking at buying around 8 years ago was a Lancia Delta Integrale, then a good one was 20k now they go for 60k upwards and are stunning cars!
I agree 100%. Cars are terrible financial investments. But they are fun and enjoyable investments. What I like to do is purchase semi rare sports cars once they are about 5-6 years old. Often times they are close to max deprecation. Then drive for about 5 years or more. I had a 2003 BMW M3 Vert that I bought used and drove for 5 years. I purchased for $22K US with only 32K miles. I sold with 70K miles for exactly what I originally paid for it. Did I make money? No!!! I had years of paying insurance, oil changes etc... but no real maintenance issues. But I drove one of my favorite M3's for 5 years. If I purchased a NEW BMW for $70K and drove for 5 years - I would have lost close to $35K to $40K in deprecation + Tax + Oil Changes + Insurance etc....Now I have 2013 BMW M3 E93 that I plan on driving for many years. I think I bought this close to the bottom of depreciation too. purchased in 2018 for $31K with only 39K miles. But Im not looking at this as an investment. Im viewing this as a fun way to spend my money and if I need to sell - I could regain most of my initial investment. But who knows maybe it will go up....But I doubt it!
I could see long term investment being profitable when all cars are electric
Agree 100% on the advice at the start - don't buy a car purely to make money, buy a car you love and if it retains or increases in value then great, if not then hey, you still have a car you love.
Part of me loves the idea of buying a small industrial unit and scooping up a few cheap cars that I love (Renault Clio 182, Ford Puma 1.7, Integra Type-R DC2) and a lift and tools to work and maintain them with, and if they go up in money great, if not then I have some of my favourite cars there and ready to drive, tinker with, etc.
Wife less keen on that idea though...
James Thorburn Clio 182 ...yes , Type R dc2....yes Ford Puma ??? Great idea buying a unit ,It would make a truly fantastic man cave to escape to.
Racing Puma Maybe?
Nope, standard Puma. As you say, buy a car you love and don't care if it goes up in value.
I like the standard Puma, I almost bought one on a number of occasions. If I could find one with solid bodywork and reasonable mileage I'd bite the sellers hand off.
It was well regarded, they are pretty cheap, and I like it. Could make a bit or at least not lose money as the rest rot away...
If I bought a Racing Puma I'd be paying a big premium for a car that to DRIVE is largely worse in the hope that it'll appreciate, when personally I think they are already overpriced.
Good advice - don't bank on these things, especially as a long term investment. I do not expect old vehicles will be a very good investment at all. The mass adoption of EV's is coming, this will increase the pressure on the viability of running fossil fuel vehicles. It's just when and how soon.
I suspect the tipping point, when it comes, will be pretty quick and you might be stuck with an expensive lump sitting in storage that you can't drive easily (not many fuel stations are going to stay open for hobbyists to fill up on sunny summer Sundays) and urban environments are going to have to ban fossil fuel use fairly soon anyway.
WINK WINK How many 911's do you have? WINK WINK SAY NO MORE
@@pappyodanial How many does He need to have?
Unless battery technology experiences a paradigm shift in terms of energy density, EV's simply won't come close to the handling and feel of a modern sports car. Yes, they may become faster in a straight line - but if that's not even accompanied by an engine note to stir the soul, or sporty handling, who actually cares? They're emotionless, fast appliances.
Similarly, without enormous financial incentives & subsidies to encourage switching to electric, there will simply be just too many fossil fuel driven cars in the hands of middle & working class folk, and littered throughout developing nations - and let's not kid ourselves - auto manufacturers are in it for the money far more than they care about mankind and the planet.
There is no tipping point followed by a cascade... at best, EV's will phase in gradually where existing fossil fuel driven cars in the hands of Joe Everyman are simply no longer practical to keep running, and it becomes financially viable for them to get into EV's. It's doubtful we'll see the day where EV's outnumber fossil fuel cars any time in the next 30 years - never mind an altogether displacement.
Mass adoption of EV's would be all the more reason for fossil fuel vehicles to become a hobby for the well-heeled, who don't need to worry about popping down to their local fuel station for fuel... and for services like fuel deliveries and specialty part manufacturing to take off. Where there's a will, there's a way.
Imagine the surge in demand for internal combustion engine Porsches, the day that Porsche announces a switch to EV-only production?
If vinyl records can make a comeback and become sought after in a digital age, so can internal combustion engines hold widespread appeal in an electric age.
And a supercar will always remain a supercar - no teenage boy has a Tesla poster on his bedroom wall.
@@Gr0t0tter If IC cars become hobby for well heeled and not something that everyone aspires, the demand for IC cars will plummet and supply being the same, prices will drop too
Vinyl records have made comeback but what is vinyl's marketshare and how large is the economy related to vinly compared to days when vinyl was the main format?
I think if manufacturers keep on pushing electric cars more and more people are just going to keep their existing cars longer. Could strengthen old car values................
I watched another channel the other day and in the comments section , some chap mentioned his second hand car business has been decimated by the rise of the PCP contract , nobody wants reasonably priced used cars anymore , instead everyone wants shiny new vehicles on their driveway to impress their neighbours , meanwhile the manufacturers keep their customers on a conveyor belt of perpetual debt, constantly upgrading vehicles for new ones at the end of every contract , so used or even classic cars become irrelevant to all but a minority of petrolheads like us. Maybe that will affect car values in the future, aspirational millennials not interested in classic cars at all.
Purchased Mk1 Focus RS in 2008. Added 20k miles in 11 years to it (5k in a single month). Made a few thousand selling this year. I sold as I wasn’t enjoy it, wasn’t driving it and it was just a garage ornament costing me mot, tax, insurance, service and maintenance. Over all a crap investment but compared to other cars of the time pretty good. I’ve got a 911 Turbo now as I love cars, love driving and it was my poster car of the day (well the 993/996 turbo were). It’s already broke after only 6 months and had its engine fully removed but I didn’t buy to make money. I bought to enjoy it... and as your recent video details... it’s bloody brilliant 👍🏻
You just gave the best advice ever to a Car lover. My dream car has always been the De Lorean, I could afford one around 20k and now it is 40k to get one in bad condition. I lost my chance, but I bought myself a nice GT86 in order to have a nice daily instead.
Completely agree. I look at it more from the angle of which car would I lose the least money on and yet still gives me loads of fun. I bought a 996 C2 manual and couldn’t be happier.
Great video James! I fully agree with you... The "boom period" is over now, there is no doubt about that. During the last 7 years or so I personally made quite a bit of money by riding the crest of the classic car wave, flipping lots of classics that were rapidly appreciating. I bought and sold mainly 928's interestingly, but lots of other cars, air cooled 911, 924 turbos, 944's of all sorts, the odd Lotus, the odd classic Mercedes or BMW (manual 635CSI was a particular favourite). Hot hatches, oddities (CX GTI Turbo II as an example). Basically anything that seemed too cheap and was easy to add value to. I'd buy, improve and then sell and make a very healthy margin.
It was great fun but sadly those days are over now. I think it's very very difficult to make money out of specialist cars (classic, performance, modern classic etc) and it's not worth the risk any more. I now have a Lotus Esprit Turbo which I probably have too much money in but I really love owning the car, fixing it, driving it, looking at it etc. I didn't buy as an investment, instead I bought it as something to enjoy long term. I caught a bad dose of Lotus Fever so if I lose, break even or even make a few quid on it I'm still a winner. And I think that's the way to look at classic car ownership in 2019.
I really think everything is at bursting point value wise now and the only way is down (or stable) for the majority of these cars... Which I'm actually glad about because the inflation we've seen over the last say 5-6 years is ridiculous!
interesting story and well put tfs
My dad always tells the story of the 56 corvette he almost bought for about $1,00 dollars, but he realized he couldn’t fit his luggage and had to drive to college to he bought some boring thing.
I never looked at him the same again.
Good video. One of the things people often forget are servicing and storage costs. Cars as an investment yield returns much lower than you think, and often it is hard to overcome the servicing, storage, insurance, and other costs related to that car as you try to wait it out for 5 years for the price to double or whatever.
Bought one of my dream cars a 1991 Audi 20 valve coupe quattro with low milage a fraction of what others are selling for which feels great but I never intend of selling it
Great comments James. In my opinion cars are not investments unless they are ultra rare with minimal mileage. Some cars may go up in value a little as they become rarer and as poor examples get crushed. However they usually will not appreciate as much as what you spend on them. What is important is to get the car you want and enjoy it. I have bought 'dream' cars thinking they will appreciate such as an F355 that is now flat-lining but has cost me £10k in 2 years and a BMW M635CSi that cost me £6k in 6 months and was sold for what I paid at a £6k loss, same for an E39 M5. Some of these 'dream' cars can have very big bills. I also had a 996 for 7 years that cost me £1k pa I consider that good value. Trouble is, as you say, speculators are now coming out of cars so the prices are falling. You can still run a car for very little at the lower ends and in the past few years I have run a B7 RS4, Accord Type R, Elise S1 & Imprezza GC8 all at a slight profit. These were my daily cars (apart from the S1) and I researched carefully what would be interesting to buy and could appreciate enough to cover their running costs. They are all what I would call 'fan boy cars' with a following where the 'fans' will always pay more for a good clean example, however you make money when you buy not when you sell so you have to bag a bargain to start with. Funnily enough next on my list was a Celica GT4 along with an Integra DC2. In terms of percentage the most money I have made has been on my NA MX5 for which I paid £1,700 for a 2 owner, 50k mile car with FSH. I have had that 4 years and I expect it has tripled in price. I think the lower end of the market is where the fun will be with the highest percentage gains. If you ask me what will be valuable in 20+ years time I would say go out and buy a McLaren 12C coupe, one of the first 100 cars built in the MTC on the SLR line by McLaren engineers. Even still it will cost you £8k pa to maintain and warrant over 20 years which means it needs to appreciate to over £300k and TBH who can be bothered waiting that long! Buy what you like and enjoy it, budget for it costing you money but if it appreciates and pays for itself then that's a bonus.
Keep rambling James, some of us tune in for it! Kind regards.
Great video. Im very happy I bought my 928 5 years ago
All of my toys are investments. I should have bought a 993 turbo back in 2000 when they were going for 50 grand. I looked at one, drove it, didn't like that you had to stand on the brakes to make it stop, and bought an M3. Ah well, at least I got in on Les Pauls and Lionel trains.
Even though I don't think that buying a car solely for investment purposes is a good idea, my whole channel is dedicated to the depreciation and appreciation of cars. I always take a data-driven approach to analyze the different cars and this sometimes yields surprising insights. Likewise to some of your conclusion in the video, I found that the prices of the 996 4S for example, already inflated so much that making money out of them will be tricky. Alternatively, prices of the 996 Carrera 2 still have some room to move up.
My guess is that air-cooled 911 (especially 993) and the embodiment of a brand (MK I Golf GTI, Audi S1, BMW E92 M3...) or like he said the last generation of something which is most often the best generation, like of air-cooled, naturally aspirated or even sporty cars without electric-power-steering will appreciate because the younger generations will not be able to buy these from any car-manufacturer anymore. Thus, if you want to experience those relicts you habe no other choice than ask a friend who ones one if you can drive it or buy one yourself. This adds to the coolness (imagine being the shit for owning a car that everybody loves) which, in my opinion, is a crucial point when it comes to appreciation.
Great video. You deserve more views and subscribers!
Now guess my age.
I am nineteen
After 30 years of buying and selling cars every 2-3 years and always losing money (doing the usual and buying nearly new, or new cars) I recently bought a 1985 R107 Mercedes SL and a 1996 W124 Mercedes E320 Estate. I may, or may not, make any money on either of those cars but I won’t lose much either. Yes I can expect some additional servicing costs but insurance is cheaper, road tax is cheaper (and soon to be free on the SL), parts are relatively cheap (certainly compared to new OEM parts on my old Audi) and I enjoy driving them. Moreover, I almost always get someone come up to me, even driving the estate, asking about the car, wanting to know more about it, or just saying how much they like it. That never happened to me when I was driving my much more expensive and more modern cars. I don’t see them as an investment although it has to be said that I bought the SL largely because interest rates on bank accounts are so low. But I do think that, overall, I will be much better off driving these older cars than I would be otherwise.
Wonderful audio quality. A real pleasure to listen to.
I have my dream car vw corrado vr6 in ice grey violet my dream car I love driving it but I now that it's a car that will decrease in price but good thing I'll never sell it
Totally agree. Find something that has hit the bottom of the depreciation curve, something that was coveted when new, that changed the market, or was revolutionary and was made in low numbers. One that fits most of that was the first Audi TT, Clean 225 bhp? But future classic like a MGB, it’s not gonna make lots of money. So drive them, don’t speculate in them!
I've lost minimal amounts on most of mine as i've bought at time of bottomed out depreciation. BUT, one tripled in value. A 1992 Corrado G60, i shipped it to Australia and enjoyed it there for 4 or 5 years, then sold it for 3 times what i paid 6 years beforehand :D Hoping my 997.2 doesn't come down too much but really i bought it because i wanted it!
best car related video I have watched in along time.
Thanks Philip
"If you are thinking about buying a car just for investment, then just stop right now." Wise words indeed. Completely agree with you Jay, buy a car you love. If it happens to make money, then call that a bonus!
Nice insight... I agree that in reality the best you can hope for is to draw even, especially if you're actually using the car. With running costs and servicing, a vehicle would have to appreciate a few thousand ever year just to draw even. Buy cheap and high miles and enjoy the thing... there's nothing worse than stressing about money every time you get the car out of the garage!
You nailed it, James. I drive cars that I really enjoy, but I never pay more than I can afford to lose. If I have to just write the damn thing off for some reason, I'll be fine.
Doubled my money on an integrale Evo over my 14 years of ownership but that was just how the market had gone - I bought it cos it was my dream car (within my budget) not to potentially make money - now I have an Elise - same thing, bought it cos I love it - shouldn't lose money on it but not really bothered about making money either - bought both 'dream cars' or 'modern classics' cos I was passionate about the cars - simple; buy what you love
I love it when Cletus stands, legs akimbo, lecturing us in his best headmaster's voice. It is, without doubt, one of the greatest experiences to be had on UA-cam. That being said, in my far from humble opinion, speculating on cars is akin to digging a hole in your back yard, and shovelling £20 notes into it.
However, I too have had my fingers burned with car purchasing, in that my 14 years old Micra steadfastly refuses to increase in value. I obviously read the runes wrong, to my considerable cost.
By the way, Cletus, what has happened to that Mercedes Benz you purchased recently; have you mothballed it⁉️🤑💸🤬🤬🤬
@simon jones He discourages us because he wants to corner the market in clapped-out old bangers. He also collects knackered cars‼️‼️
Great video and really good advice. In my case I have done well by buying cars I really like/wanted, using them pretty much as second cars, servicing them myself and then selling a few years later when I got bored. I have owned 3 air cooled 911s (1971, and 1984's) and sold all at a profit, one 1977 308 at a profit and one 1971 Dodge Challenger at a profit. I am in the US and all the cars were bought locally and enjoyed by us for years before selling and not bought to make money. Of that list I think all are now over valued other than a Challenger. Another benefit of older cars is of course low insurance and in many places no road tax.
I now have a 635i which I think is a current bargain. Would also think an early S8 and maybe a 6 cylinder XJR and XJS worth a look,. 360 coupe may be too as they are pretty cheap right now and I think have bottomed and will age well. Early Evora and Maserati Grandsport maybe too. I also think a newer Dodge Challenger (2009-11 high performance models) will hold its money and appreciate and they are one of the few modern classics that are actually practical for a family and super reliable. Obviously physically big in the UK but a friend has one in Spain and loves it as a non depreciating daily.
Buy a car to enjoy it :)
Good advice as usual. I love a bit of waffle. I was browsing on ebay on another screen and half listening but I heard pretty much all of it. I bought my E34 M5 for £4,695, spent about £1,000 a year for 9 years bringing it up to completely original spec and sold it last spring for £10,000. At the time some were being offered for around £15,000 to £20,000 but those prices were speculative. Now they probably only go for £11,000 to £12,000 for a similar one. So I had nine years of almost free motoring in an iconic car but I never really had an investment on my hands.
Ramble away mate, everything you said is true!long story short..... 9 years back I lusted and nearly bought a speed yellow aero kitted 996C2 which just happened to have been previously owned by a pal. It was £19k and I couldn’t just afford it . My e30 m3 and e36 328is needed to go and then add some! Sold the e30 and bought a e46m3 for £14k with 64k miles. Roll on 9 years... the m3!is still here now with 91k miles with a speed yellow c4 aero kitted 996 sitting next to it! Paid £18500 for it. If they both stay the same in terms of value then I’ve won! But really, it’s my dream garage and if both cars hold their respective current values then I’m more than happy 😉 cheap motoring. But honestly, All the track days and ring trips in the M are worth more to me than values. Increasing/ maintaining a value is just a bonus of owning a really great car! I hope the newly purchased 996 offers me a similar owners experience ..... great vlog by the way 👌🏻
Doesn't have a yellow recaros, seat belts and dials your C4 does it?
JayEmm on Cars it does! Please don’t tell me it been previously smashed to bits 😳
Is the reg T375 SBJ or something a bit like that?
JayEmm on Cars just looked through some history here and there are documents with that reg plate ! 😳 now I’m worried.....
Haha, drop me a line on talk@jayemm.com, fear not
I've always found the best way to spend ones money is by investing it in fast women and strong drink‼️👍🏼🍻💃🏼 And, of course, steamrollers‼️
If you enjoy driving classic cars forget about investment. But what you can do is buy certain cars and enjoy them for a year or two. Then sell them and get all of your money back. Then carefully choose your next car you have always wanted to enjoy.
I subbed this channel coz I like your style and you rambles. Don't stop please. Cheers and good luck.
Does it earn an income, rent or dividends if not it is a speculation even assets that earn rent etc at certain prices are speculations.
Actually the Ford Capri is a great example if you own the car for a few years and use it you may not make a fortune with it but if you take a very popular car like say the celica and own it for say 5 years then you will probably double your money minus general maintenance, however looking to make more money in a short period is highly unlikely, having said that I doubled my money in 2 years buying a Toyota MR2 Turbo because the prices doubled in that time but that was mainly luck.
V12 vantage s manual is my bet for future residuals. V12, no turbos, no Mercedes involvement, not many made and of course I’m biased because I own one.
Epic cars. Never driven one, still want one.
JayEmm on Cars welcome to take mine for a spin, it’s a rather special and unique example. I’m in Portsmouth.
Drop me a line on talk@jayemm.com
I think you are on the right track. If I had the money its the car I would buy at that price point.
With the whole world going turbocharged..
I'd be willing to bet that the Premier Edition Civic Type R EP3's will start to go up in value soon....
Bought a 2005 E55 Amg Wagon will only drive it on sunday and keep it forever , If I have this thing in about 20 years it's gonna be huge I think ;)
Cars at the minute are horrendous. They just arent selling and people are asking way too much money. I had my corrado for sale for about a year. Priced alongside others but just no takers, reduced and reduced until i ended up getting genuine offers. I had about 6k in the car and didnt recoup half of it. Spent 2300 on it when i bought it, resprayed and mechanical work to get it mint. Enjoyed it for 2 years and lost so much on it. Buy a car to enjoy it not to make money
Hi what colour was your rado , was it a VR6, leather interior which colour ? Sometimes an unpopular colour combo can decrease the value and the Vr6 is the one that people will want. A good Vr6 with right combo , and say full suspension change , paint job , all sensors changed, good discs pads, stainless steel catback, and interior fully working should be worth 7 k in my opinion as its a pretty rare car and the first V6 R model VW released. Think the prices of these actually will increase in the next few years as most out there now have been severley modded or rotting on a driveway. The Rados age is now nearly 30 years old so most people that wanted one of these as a youngster have now got a bit of money to spend.
@@keyo525 dragon pearl green with cream leather interior. Rare with aircon
@@mikeyBIA I like that colour but cream leather has aged bad and not as diserable as black, and green is not most peoples cup of tea compared to , white, black, red, grey which is a safe bet. Also timing chain change will get you the top money.
@@keyo525 its the cars best colour. Look up the green storm. Thats what it was. Cream interior i understand but it was in good nick. Classic car market it just shite atm. Ive observed it with the B5 rs4s which ive just got. Theyve plummeted in value recently
@@mikeyBIA I like mine Magic Black Pearl, its actually rarer in a Vr6 then then a storm it was a runout option colour with black leather, I also have a Shrick VGI. Yeah B5 are a bargain at the moment hell of alot of car for the money .
Some good points JayEmm. Good video.
I think you're a bit out on the Z4M coupe comment though, they have increased steadily over the past 4 years. They haven't exploded in value like CSL etc, but there is steady growth there for the good ones.
Steady, but slow. Mine required an O2 Sensor, which cost about the same to fix as a year's worth of appreciation. Servicing them is not cheap and you have to take them to the right place if you want them to keep their value.
Just a quick shout out. I am a Brand Ambassador for Porsche in Chicago … You do an amazing job with your videos.
All your hard work is much appreciated.
Dj
Porsche N.A.
My absolute pleasure
Buy:
- 458 Speciale
- 997 RS 4.0 or 3.8
- E46 M3
- F40
- GT3 Touring
- Golf GTI MK II 16V
That's it. You are set.
2 cars I'd be looking into for the poor guy wanting to earn a few quid. Standard mint Golf Mk5 GTI, Lotus Elise. I don't think these cars will depreciate and are affordable.
Edit- just made to the end, I have both a Mk5 GTI and Lotus Elise S2 1zz. I moved from the UK and the Lotus since 2011 has not depreciated at all but not made any money, with the Elise line ending I think this will only appreciate, it's a daily and does not cost a lot of money to run, the Golf mk5 GTI is factory spec not messed with, I think it may drop a little but increase as even being a 2006 car in immaculate condition pretty much keeps up with or faster than everything on the road. I have another two cars which have made some money. I've owned Delta's since 1990 and kept my Evo2 bought in 2007 for 11k ukp. This was bought for passion not profit. The other car is a Golf mk2 Syncro Country 1990. I picked this up in a garage back yard for 2k euros, its had a mild restoration and full respray but worth around 12k euros.
Lotus- 16k ukp purchase- 10 years daily driving, similar resale expected rise. (no huge bills)
Golf Mk5 GTI- 5K eu , daily driver, similar resale expect to rise (1k euros spent on service and preservation).
Lancia integrale Evo2. 11k purchase 2007. Daily driver until 2011 but undergone full restoration body and interior/engine, value 50-60k ukp. (8k euros spent)
Golf mk2 Country Syncro. Purchase 2k euros, (3k euros spent) worth approx 14k
Total outlay over 14 years using the cars 46k
Value now- around 95k
You can have fun and make a few quid if you are careful and buy at the right time.
Same advice I have been giving out for last two years to my customers
Due EV’s coming on strong soon it will kill the demand for these older cars
Then there will be some bargains I hope
Probably the best investment I have made was the first vehicle I bought in highschool. Which actually led to another car investment that paid off for me... kinda.
Generally I would buy a car that I want to have and like. I also would like to drive it. - Investment works everywhere the same. Stockmarket, Stamps or whatever - There is a time to buy and a time to sell. If you miss the right point in time you loose. I think even on the high level there are ups and downs - Nobody I know wants to own desperate a pre WWII Car or even one from the 50th.
The best content on car investment on UA-cam!
Thankyou
Cars are cars!!!!!
They aren’t investments they are passion, fun, amazement, travel companions, transport
But most of all I love them 😍
To some. But a lot of them are also investments.
charlesmcguffy
Nope
Mr Boggy, I highly disagree. Not all cars are an investment, that’s a given. But it’s like saying houses are to be lived in an not an investment... very untrue, although not everyone will make money on the property they buy. Same can be said of artworks, jewellery, and any other item which can serve a purpose/enjoyment for the owner (unlike bonds) and whose resale value is at the mercy of the market
Absolutely true, and we’ll put across
So my 90,000 miles '89 928S4 isn't likely to bring any money?
the 981 looks guards red. In a previous review I pointed out the car you were reviewing was carmine rather than guards. Am I right in this case?
Both cars (the 718 featured previously and this) were Carmine
Personally if I were to sell my Integra and made no money on it. Perhaps even lost a grand, I wouldn't be too bothered. The market has been pretty stable the last few years and yes, it could appreciate but it's too difficult to say. But to buy a fun car, add a few miles to and get some fun out of while spending money on maintaining or lightly modifying like you would any other regular car, I would take as a win. Expecting to make money is where you can start going wrong.
Some good points and some obvious errors. Eg 911 R prices, £500k at one point yes, but I never saw one at £1m.+ there are always silly examples of those with more money than sense over bidding remember the 993 RS that sold for £1.8m ?
Car flippers have had an impact there were over 40 GT3 991.2’s for sale at one point last year, most not even run in. You might have covered that in your last video. The issue is dealers pets buying only because they believe they will make a buck and no intention or desire to drive. The enthusiasts left high and dry by Porsche
Yes it was covered in the GT3 video. At one point there were over 50 for sale! More than 991 C2
what model is the right porsche?
i like your waffling about...
Our 2000 Jeep Cherokee (XJ, not ZJ) 4.0 Orvis seems to be one that will actually keep going up valuewise, because if not here, it'll be elsewhere in Europe or the USA. Only 800 of them were built for the whole world, despite only ever being sold in the UK in right hand drive, and though few people may realise this, it's the highest and nicest trim level anyone could ever get of the car.
One of the main reasons I'd imagine it would keep afloat is the rarity. They may have built 800 of them, and they may be the nicest model, but that doesn't mean people didn't treat them like Discoveries or Land Cruisers, because after all, this is the UK, where people usually buy relatively cheap off-roaders to thrash around the green lane. If you look on howmanyleft.co.uk, you'll see that the number of these still on the road is a pretty steep diagonal line, and we're losing around 10 of them each quarter; there are 272 4.0s around as of Q3 of last year.
I calculated that within 7 years, there will be virtually none of these left. Though that being said, some will obviously be preserved, and mine will be kept, especially seeing as it's an even rarer one, having the 'Big Ton Group' towing package that gives it extra goodies, namely really good factory underseal that means the floors won't rot (which is the biggest killer of these cars), having virtually no rust at all.
None of this is to say that they actually will keep going up in value, but I've kept an eye on what they're selling for. When we bought ours in April 2017 it cost £3000, but it did subsequently need another ~£3000 in work to get the drivetrain refurbished (after we'd found that it has been sat in the owner's garage for 10 years or so of its life). Since then, they've gone to £5000, then £6000 with some now selling for £10k in relatively the same condition as ours, (around 100k miles, all factory bits etc). In the early 2010s, they were worth just over what a regular old Cherokee would go for, around £1000 or less.
I think that on a smaller scale, being below £15k in value, keeping a rare but desirable car as a weekend drive or a second car is a bit better of a decision. Because even if it does slump in value, you're not losing much, because it wasn't worth much in the first place. And seeing as the market for these cars in America (with much worse-spec'd versions) has sky-rocketed recently, it still has hope yet. Though that being said, we don't really keep it for the money at all - we do keep it for the enjoyment, as you say. Knowing its rarity also makes us want to hold onto it and preserve it too 😁
A great video though as always Jay, and on a good subject too. Keep up the good work!
I'm curious to see what the 25-yr import law does to the prices of the US-spec Japans cars from the 90s over the next few years.
Great video James.
I think an Alfa Romeo 4c will end up being worth more than they currently are. Also the Ferrari 360 will appreciate
"You know it's time to sell when shoeshine boys give you investment tips."
I suspect the big driver of this is QE. Post 2008, all the cash being injected into western economies through bond buying programmes had to go somewhere; equities first, then property, art, wine, classic cars, you name it. Anything that might hold its value. Now that we're into the Quantiative Tightening phase, prices are starting to come back to earth.
I do still wonder if manual M2's might hold their value well and be a bit of a future classic. Then again, a lot of them are being made, so I dunno.
I think a manual could be a good bet but it depends if the next one is manual too
@@JayEmmOnCars I agree. I can't see them being phased out just yet.
Buy CHEAP and then don't worry! My "92" S2 cost me a whole £5000. If I sell it for that after a few years, I don't care
Ty Corcoran and high mileage! That's the way to lose the least money
@@Chrissy-H As said in the video, 5 - 10 thousand on a 180,000 car will affect it in not a jot of a way. Very happy with my toy and happy to use it as much as possible.
Ty Corcoran will you sell me your S2 for £5000? 😉
@@AaronFleming Bring £8000 and it is yours I can then buy a pub :)
@@tycorcoran6965 Only if I get free drinks in said pub
My 924 cost £286 3 years ago.........all of the 'experts' said I'd 'gone mad.......van engine' blah blah blah. The price has just started to go daft and the van engine turns out to have originally been a Daimler Benz block!
This was a very interesting video and no way were you wafflying on however what if your an average person like myself who wants to buy a either a sports car/classic car to enjoy over the summer months what would be the best car to do that
Something like an MX5 does well for that
Keep waffling, Mister. You talk a lot of very articulate sense. A lot of cars became classics and therefore appreciated for all kinds of reasons. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The Austin-Healey 3000 mark 3 was a fairly mundane car (slightly cheaper than the A120) but it’s value now outstrips all kinds of exotica. The classic car market does not favour complicated cars (hence why most Mk 2 Jags were scrapped). Just drive and enjoy your car then or now.
Car is very rarely an investment since it does not generate stream of income. Rather it is speculation, a bet that it will hopefully increase it's value in future.
Can you make money on cars. Yes. Cars have no capital gains tax. Cars are literally the ONLY tax exempt commodity because of this people use them to move investments out of volitile investment markets, You can move cars around the world without capital gains tax, this is why some classic cars increase so dramatically in value.
Even a cheap classic will end up being positive equity. I drive 2 Saab 900s. Both are now worth more than when I bought them, including any costs attributed to maintaining them. I also have a kawasaki I paid £1,600 for which is now worth somewhere around £6,000, That increase happened in 3 years. (mainly due to kawasaki releasing a new z900 which to a lot of people wasn't what they wanted, making the big retro kawasakis prices shoot up as they offered what customers actually wanted).
The hard part is predicting what till go up in value. Old Porsches are probably a safe bet. Anything with "cult" status.
I used to think the 928 was a big car. But alongside the Boxster it looks small.
Maybe not a good investment but a slow depreciation that caps at some point,maybe. I see cars that have not dropped in the past 5 years. So I got my dream car and if I take care of it then it will still have solid value in 5 to 10 years. Any other new sports car does nothing but drop every year.
Yes there are a few cars which seem to have hit their limit of depreciation - Aston V8 Vantage (early ones), S1 Lotus Evoras, early Nissan GTRs etc
I've been lucky over the last 10 years or so. Like you say you have to buy something you really want and if you loose so be it. However I always try and find a car that I think is at the bottom of its depreciation curve. I've had two 4th gen camaros, first one I lost £700 on over 5 years. Second one I made £3k on! (manual low miles etc). Currently looking at ISF's I think they are going to start going up soon for clean examples. Oh and I bought a LS400 as my daily last year and its at least doubled in value, but again is low mileage good condition and I saw they where on the rise price wise and I've wanted one for a while.
Also I love it when people ask me how I afford to run the cars I choose and watch there faces when I say how do you afford X depreciation on whatever bore box they've bought.
Pretty simple folks, don’t buy depreciating assets in hope they’ll appreciate
I agree you waffle a bit, I subscribe because I love talking about cars so waffle isn't so bad but it does limit your audience somewhat.
Although it's a talent to talk that long without in one go without mincing your words. I couldn't.
I bought a Micra as an investment!
I bought my pristine 929Gt in 2008 ago and sold it in 2018, for almost double the price I paid back then. Go figure
I agree entirely
The buried Dino is my favorite car story, tell that one
Chris Rea had classic cars right. (This story was told to me by my dad so could well be bollocks).
Was advised to buy a classic Ferrari Daytona as an investment. Shortly after this the value of Ferrari Daytona’s fell significantly. What did he do? Put a roll cage in it and took it racing.
Of course now Daytona’s are worth a fortune again.
Yes, buy any 911. Don't waste your time with 928s before 1990. The GT/GTS are the only 928 cars that skyrocketed in the "collectible" market. Bought my 911SC turbo look in 2015 for $16K, right now Hagerty value is $40K.
If you have to watch a video to figure out if you can make money selling cars then the answer for you is "no"
I wrote off a 968 eight years ago that I paid £6k for, what a douchbag. However I have paid £17k for a 986 and really enjoyed owning the car selling @ £15k so if I were to buy again I’d save £10k 👍
E36 M3 will do it
Then again it will probably brake more times then the amount of times people will actually offer you a deal😂
How come Jay doesnt own a classic Espirit such a stunning looking car.
Always wanted one, nearly bought one a couple of times
@@JayEmmOnCars Would you go for the V8 or Turbo 4 Cylinder ?
@@keyo525 the 4. My favourite is the Giugiaro shape Turbo
@@JayEmmOnCars Same here you might have to think about getting one sooner or later as I actually do think these will be out of reach one day for the money that you would hapily purchase one for and deservingly so.
I wish I'd kept my Datsun 240 z...sold it in 91 for 7k nzd now worth 40 k nzd ...bugger LOL 😀
Cars are still a better investment and a reliable investment than a wife. In case someone is considering. Don't do it!
Anyone selling a 928, cheap?
Interesting video, thanks.
I had not heard about the crook driving his Veyron into a salt lake in the USA, and that video "Bugatti Veyron Lake Crash" has been watched almost 9 million times, and the video isn't monetised.
Number plates are a better investment
Good lad!
Look for the last of’s....like the z4 m 😂
I don't have the money for a Ferrari.. But if I had I would drive it until it dined. People how dare to drive their cars... they can't afford the car. :D
As a rule of thumb
Unless it's a McLaren F1 be weary and do your homework.
just buy an mercedes W201 W123 W124 diesel they are designed to run 1000000 km ,that is just a good investment