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Two of my biggest issues with why I have avoided destiny for 8 months only logging on for free bright dust, is one I feel like eveytime I make something I like in pve it gets nerfed or is not strong enough for any higher content. Two I cannot remember the last non exotic gun that felt special or had a combo I was excited to use or try (Not like they have ways for people to know what rolls a gun can roll with in game anyway) guns in destiny are so boring to me unless they are exotic that I just make ability based builds
I think this first part will bring back some memories, but please read the rest too. At 9:28 - 10:00 when you were mentioning a PvE encounter, I thought of Hasapiko from Menagerie - the Minotaur boss. Your point is that even with all these activities that are supposed to be “unique” we’ve seen it all before. I’ve known this for years now, and it’s such a shame some people still don’t. It’s also a shame that Bungie is still relying on the same 3 mechanics (Ball relics, Plates, Symbols) as crutches to carry Endgame Content. There is SO much they can do if they just thought about it! As for your guys’s comments above, I 100% agree: @desertphoenix6980 - Sparrow racing should return. It was a fun aspect of PvP that was unique for Destiny. And if it were to return, we have an event fit perfectly for its style - Guardian Games. After all, why not put a fun competition between guardians in the event all about fun competition between each other? @Revenant_Striker - Yep. I’ve started investing into actually making PvP builds for once cause there’s nothing else to do that’s enjoyable - even though I hate PvP, especially D2’s with a burning passion. @Redazzer200 - Going with your first point, unfortunately for PvE you only have 3 options: it’s either use the meta, use very specific niche stuff, or get out. It’s why I’ve found less enjoyment in that aspect of the game - the only way I sometimes manage to is when I do something immensely hard (Solo Flawless Dungeons specifically), or help people when they need it. And even then, it’s only sometimes at most. -For your second point, you’re on the money. There’s no real point to chasing a legendary weapon nowadays. Other than specific, recent perk combos, most players already have something for any given scenario. I could spend over an hour listing all the guns I have that are non-sunset with replica’s in the current day of the game. It’s the one reason Sunsetting was good, cause it made us actually look through the new gear for replacements of our old stuff. Unfortunately, the window the Sunsetting phase gave was too short. It should’ve been 2 years, not 3/4 of a year. (Hindsight - hoo boy, I know saying Sunsetting was good will cause a riot, but I stand firmly by my decision with absolute certainty)
Your not in the wrong for wanting more innovation nor for being upset at what to took for it to come out, but I would say that it is important that we try to focus on encouraging bungie towards the right path as opposed to scaring them away from it with negative comments. Not to say that errors shouldn't be pointed out. They should be, but should be done in a way that highlights what bungie is doing right right now so as to keep them on course instead of derailing. A good analogy would be to say we have given bungie the stick for their mistakes but we now need to ensure they know what gets them the carrot.
Why does it feel like playing destiny is like staying in a toxic relationship? Where the community is fully invested, or wants to be, and the developers are like "you get this much attention from me and it's take it or leave it so..."
Honestly, it does feel like that, especially with the D2 development higher ups, they arent letting the true team of D2 give the players what THEY want, plus one of the lead devs of D2 LEFT THE TEAM because of the amount of greed. Edit: They also are ending up putting EVERYTHING BEHIND A PAY WALL, which is something the die hard D2 fans (not talking about anyone specific) DON'T want.
@infernalwolf6333 yea it just sucks because I want destiny to be the best that it can be and it CAN be great... but I also can't seem to stay away for too long. I think I always take like 6 month breaks and something always pulls me back in... just like a toxic ex XD
The Sony executive mentioned something that hasn't gotten as much traction as I thought. Excessive use of business expenses. When companies get fat and happy, they get sure of themselves and get lazy. Top management starts costly vanity improvements that do not contribute to product or profit. That executive's recognition of wasting resources better towards production is something ive wondered about these last few years.
I wonder how much their investment in a massively expanded and renovated HQ building informed this assessment, especially in a world where so much of their staff probably spends a majority of time WFH. Their own careers site mentions "New-hire lunches, social clubs, employee events - however you have fun, there's something for everyone!", which I expect are the kind of thing that a corp exec would expect to see reduced during hard times. They also have a wide range of affinity groups which I assume the company funds, though those seem unlikely to be a huge cash drain (what are the chances that all together they cost as much as the salary and benefits of a single employee, for example). Bungie also does expensive merch initiatives like the Nerf Gjallarhorn, and though I don't know how well that did it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that's certain to turn a profit given how complex that process must have been. I expect we'll see a lot of belt tightening around perks and 'culture' things at Bungie in coming months, especially if Final Shape is a wet fart financially.
I got away from destiny 2 last year and it made me realize how much of a job this game felt like for all those seasons. They try and base their engagement on fomo and it's just exhausting after awhile to always feel like you're missing something
this is a you issue, if the game feels like a job it's because you don't control your emotions enough! If you can't look at some weapon or armor and say "I don't need this" or "I'm not going to do this because it's not fun" that's because you lack control over your emotions. I hate doing it, but video games have warped mind of people playing them into brainless dopamine junkies, primarily FPS games
@@scarletnoct5807 if this was a "me" issue videos like this wouldn't have to exist. if you can't accept that the game is in a bad place I don't even know what to say because you aren't seeing reality
@@scarletnoct5807 Quit gaslighting people into thinking the game is good when its not. Helldivers 2 has much better baseline gameplay than Destiny 2 will ever have, simply because of its dynamic map and not being a bunch of pre-generated linear missions. The monetization is also better, you don't feel pressured to buy stuff from the daily shop because you can also earn the premium currency in-game and in the free pass. I could keep naming things such as their emphasis on balance so that everything becomes mediocre. This is honestly just cope from people who are still buying from Bungie.
@@johndoe1274 Exactly, I got my 40 hours out of helldivers and I don't feel like I'm being forced to log in every single day for some tedious menial tasks that Bungie has been recycling since forsaken. This dude is borderline delusional to try and defend this game in its current state
This is the exact reason why I finally got burnt out of Destiny going through Beyond Light. A big chunk of it was having most of my friend groups leave the game's community through various years starting back in Taken King. I stuck with the game as long as I had both because I still had some friend groups that played it, and because I had the time to give to the game. However around the time of the first year of the Seasonal model, I had college to deal with full-time and shortly after a career to deal with too. And the more I got dragged away from Destiny, the more I realized just how much time Bungie was forcing me to invest, to keep up with content creators. To keep up with the PvE and PvP lords of the game. To keep up with the grind hell that they'd turned Destiny into, and to keep myself relevant in the game. And as soon as I realized that, I decided then and there to delete the game and not turn back. I poured my later school years and life into that game because I thought I was having fun; instead, I only found out I was never Bungie's target audience, and they only care for players that can pour a 40-hour work *day* into the game to keep themselves relevant.
I can't reiterate enough - i was taking a break from destiny during SRL and told myself I'd just catch it on a rerun. Because live service games have events that re-run, and improve and change a bit. Right?
you aren't wrong, the helldivers dev team took what, three weeks tops, to fix their server bottleneck issue and bungie which is many many times bigger still has problems that are years old or even as old as the game itself
whats even crazier is that it wasnt a server issue with helldivers 2: it was a code issue. the game was LITERALLY not built to handle the amount of players they had. they had to go into the code and rebuild entire sections of it.
Could be just me but personally everything felt like it went wrong with sunsetting. That is the clear point in time I can look to where stuff started to go wrong. We had a nice completed game, then a huge chunk was ripped out. Everything since then is trying so hard to fill in that chunk but doesn't fit right. They're trying to rectify a problem they created but in a way that's not working. I'm not a game dev so I cant speak on how to properly fix things so I wont, but I will agree the game feels wrong at the moment. I still love it and still play it daily, but the magic just doesn't feel like its there anymore.
And tbh when they rip away items and things that you spend days grinding for its like a punch to the gut. I left d2 when bl came out because the time i spent playing up till that point was worth nothing
The way Bungie puts it is that they sunset a lot of content because it took up too much space, and older generation consoles simply didn't have the space to deal with it. People have collectively agreed that Sunsetting was a bad move and shouldn't have happened (at least the stories, the planets, and the raids shouldn't have been sunset.) The opinions on what could have been done instead of Sunsetting varies wildly, with some more radical takes being to drop oldgen console support entirely in favor of sunsetting. I know a lot of weapons were sunset when The Taken King came out back in Destiny 1, but that's all that was sunset. I think if Bungie just hit the weapons and not anything else, people would be fine (even though the main reason why weapons were sunset aka pinnacle weapons wouldn't be that strong in modern Destiny 2 as they were back then.)
I think that such an lame excuse, plenty of devs learned to optimize their games. Bungie is a massive company and to take away content people payed for is bs no matter the limits on that hardware. @@lordpumpkinhead265
Additionally, it feels like they just listen to the small, louder voices, not the ones telling that small group that they're wrong and that the majority doesn't want that.
Bungie is able to respond extremely quickly to things that benefit the player, like effective event farming or a new cheese that trivialises content. They'll helicopter in and patch that shit immediately. But things that inconvenience the player take either months or years to fix, if at all.
Bro I still remember the shrieker bug in Seraph. I remember trying the legendary mission with my friends and that bug, despite being present in the early stages of that season, was still not patched by the end of the season. I didn't feel like running it solo because Bungie has a love of hyper tuning the enemies to a ridiculous degree and it takes a while for champion mods to actually work. Honestly, why didn't they just take notes from D1 with difficult content? I get the desire to innovate but stuff like champions feel more like an annoyance rather than a challenge
@SordidusFellatio pvp fps games are way, way less popular than they used to be. Cod from 10 years ago, was more popular on its own than every current fps pvp games combined
Honestly I'd love some sort of endless mode that ramps up in difficulty the longer you go, also prison of elders mixed with menagerie and give it a new boss per season/episode. There's a ton of things like SRL a patrol refresh so there's exotic events like neomuna, strike specific loot is another thing as that'd be better than this weird nightfall loot system we've got. Exotic quests, hidden stuff in patrols, a PvP mode that's just hive swords, a PvP mode where you can't use abilities and it's just guns and a basic jump, a gambit game mode that is just what team can kill the most enemies and guardian kills decrease score. We can sit here until final shape launches on what should/should've been added or left in the game, but in all honesty a game like destiny would be better if multiple developers were working on it instead of just bungie. Like a dev team that focuses on game modes and maps for crucible and gambit, one to fill out things like strikes and PvE based modes (prison of elders) and leave bungie to work on story stuff. It's not ungrateful to feel like something hasn't been done or have taken ages because it's been said to death on multiple things and bungie were probably aware from the get go, they've made bad choices and here we are. I'm kinda glad Sony is stepping in and putting in resources to help out, but if Sony decides they need a shake up it may actually end up being good rather than bad, I mean look at what 343i went through with halo (weirdly a bungie thing too lol)
If Tyson can't get this thing in a good direction over the next year, I say give it to SONY. Clearly Bungie is making stupid amounts of money that goes..... where again? While they have been releasing obviously terrible-for-the-game temporary content made to be erased.... they could have overhauled the ENTIRE game by now. Strikes, crucible and gambit.
110% The last time we had a “fuck it” moment from ghost was in witch queen when he wanted finch dead. Everyone I’ve asked, thought that was a major turning point, then he got soft again
@@RetroactiveEscapades if I remember correctly, there was a strike or a mission (I completely forget what) but ghost says how he’s tired of scanning stuff. I’m pretty sure it was beyond light but I could be wrong
I just played the mission yesterday its the sabotaging salvation quest and ghost just say "you know im really tired of scanning security terminals" or something like thit@@bacobjlack8574
I've taken a break in D2 and kind of grew apathetic to it right now, at least until TFS releases. Helldivers 2 is so much fun though, you're right! A breath of fresh air. Who would have thought that you need a genuinely good game at a fair price point to be this successful. Many things from the first game were already in HD2, but I guess it took a switch to third person to be massively popular. I'm doing my part! Despite my apathy for Destiny right now, I still hope it will get better. This game gave me so many hours of pure joy (frustration, too) that wish only the best for it too.
I'm in the same boat, my current partner who hasn't played destiny 2 saw my steam hours and said "how come you don't play this anymore you played this more than anything else" Thus began the conversation on the apathy that grew throughout the years that culmination into the breakup after light fall
Sounds like you're spitting facts. Game needs a bit of freshness. Not new skins for things. Perhaps class specific things in a pve environment? Like, needing blink to get across a chasm to activate a bridge? Or a titan slam/smash ability to get through a wall? Having to sacrifice your super in order to light a brazier? Using our abilities to effect the environment to complete a challenge... Shooting aliens is fine, but I want to look forward to something more than just seeing my body count at the end. I want more, "Oh, remember that time I..." or "Bro, that was so cool when you..." I also think increasing exotic drop chance was a mistake. I liked when you saw that guy with an exotic and it shows they had to struggle to get it.
Its taken me a long time to get out of the destiny hell... if you need to move on, try other games. One will hit with you better. Edit: another thing you need to realize, you can be successful going through other games. Find another game youre passionate about and stop feeling like you need to stay with bungie. Bungie needs to lose business. Theyre not worth anyone's time anymore.
Exactly. Once I took a break. I felt so much better enjoying other games and even playing less games entirely. Allowed me to be more productive and not in thiw constant state of annoyance with Destiny. Still one of my favorite games I ever played, but it still has to come to an end at some point. I'm just trying to have fun and I refuse to live for the grind
@@isaacgirouard5924 i would play warframe but honestly the grind is even worse than destiny man. i remember having to wait three irl days just to craft something for a fucking character
@@evidant not even that is bad if yk what to do, if u get prime parts or rare mods just sell them for plat. over time u will rack up a lot of plat and then u can just rush the production
Love how at 10:44 there was a “voice chat error” message because the service “was down”. As for my opinion, as a relatively new player, (started playing right before Stasis got its shady hands all over pvp meta) I joined when Bungie was heavily supported by the D2 community. Rightfully so, because they were pretty quick (as far as development goes) to fix shatterdive and such broken abilities. This was also around the time that Bungie pulled an Nintendo move, and sued the living hell out of the cheaters, completely demolishing them with no mercy like they were my opponents in the 7th trials match for flawless. Bungie was basically revered at the time, and I liked how connected they were with the community. I would rather have constant changes to the meta, or constant playlist updates that are unorthodox to change up the game, than just fixing problems that are a year overdue. Like the fact that the new exotic armor was nearly impossible to get through legend lost sectors until recently. But that came at the cost of legend lost sectors being more “difficult” by just raising the power level requirements. And that’s another thing. The power level system. Holy crap, it’s been a complaint for what, 5-6 years now? Half the existence of the Destiny franchise? And we’re being promised it’ll be changed in the Final Shape expansion, (which got delayed by 4 months, hope you didn’t waste $100 on the pre-order) but that’s essentially a worthless promise until then, and it’s caused many players to quit playing. Yet another thing, Bungie can CLEARLY fix issues quick, as seen by “The Craftening” weekend, but only when players are having fun. Even then, the glitch from that weekend was locked behind whether you had enough craft-able weapons, a frame rate cap, insane timing, and RNG-esus by your side, blessing your controls. Or 12-guardian raids/activities. You needed 11 friends to do it. And again, no harm no foul, because it was BEFORE raids and dungeons were farmable, only making it fun. And if they got a triumph or something, some sort of reward that was really hard to get normally, then so what? Bungie went from being a good, community-focused game studio making positive changes quick, to a bad, money-focused, greedy business that patched fun glitches even quicker.
I think those feelings are valid. The data driven approach that Bungie has mastered to tweak the sandbox probably tunnel visioned the devs, and so they started missing the forest for the trees
As someone that plays mostly pve and only in the last couple of years of playing more pvp, I feel like your feelings aren’t wrong. I completely understand wanting there to be more interesting ideas, wanting there to be new stuff that hasn’t been done before. I feel like it’s partially a matter of players are wanting new things as soon as possible without considering the situations Bungie has been facing lately. But I’m right there with you, even though I don’t play it as much as of late, I still love Destiny and am willing to see how far it’ll go until it dies.
Some attention to gambit (COZ THE POTENTIAL IS THERE, WE'VE SEEN OTHER PvEvP GAMES DO WELL RECENTLY) and some innovation past a new gun grind is very much a collective sentiment, we're with you in this
1:10 exactly. People are problem solving machines. It wasnt a problem they valued enough to solve. But that - I think you would call - a strategic decision. It is interesting that joe is gone for a minute and the new changes are announced.
Another thing about helldivers. Its mechanics are great. Basically playing DDR to call in ordinance and supplies is a phenomenal idea and is executed great. Your simple stuff (typically) has simple sequences making calling them in quick and easy for when you need to call something in quick like an eagle strafing run. The amount of times where shit got overrun and heavy ordinance was too complex to call in so I called in a strafing run on my feet towards the enemies is uncountable
you’re in the right. bungie captured many hearts with halo, then moved on to destiny and innovated on the concepts they made with halo reach. and that is where they kinda stayed since. with the 3.0 subclasses they attempted to shift the roles and innovate a bit: titans switched from a defensive role to a cqc damage dealer. warlocks went from insane attackers to a more buff/debuff role, and my beloved hunters have gone from jack of all trades to a ad clearing class. of course there are outliers but that seems to be the new norm for the classes. but aside from the 3.0 subclasses there has been next to no innovation. pvp always feels like there is someone that is better than you/hard cheating, pve is getting artificially harder (enemy’s are always +5 or more power now), and general activities are just lame or too gimmick focused (snowballs in dawning is a great example).
TFS collector's edition is a perfect example. We were supposed to have our og tower n all that by now. Even after the delayed launch, they stated it would still ship this month. Then they quietly pushed back the ship date on it. No explanation, not even an email saying it was pushed back. But they want us to keep our preorders and not cancel them
From the perspective of a newer player (stsrted at beginning of season of the deep) i personally have one main gripe about the game, and thats the fact of they try and get every cent out of you they can. You just bought a dlc? Nope, doesn’t come with the dungeon, you gotta buy the dungeon key, and it omly works for *that* dlc.
btw if you get a raid exotic you get a very intrusive popup in orbit asking you to buy the exotic ornament. it does not matter if you already have the ornament
As a day 1 player, I stopped 2 months ago. You aren't wrong in these feelings and thoughts as they aren't clear with us, the community, and they have only just been getting back on track, hopefully the changes at bungie may help take this beautiful game to another stage and level where it can grow. I will return, but I needed a long break even though I still watch all your videos. You are a godsend mesome, goog luck and good games to you.
Nah, I get it. I agree with you and do believe you're right. For a "live service game" to take this long, or for the D2 community to reach apathetic levels of frustration, to adjust/fix/correct something is wild. A lot of the times, it feels like the "fires" have burnt out and been ashes for a long time before Bungie does something. When Bungie does get around to reacting to the playerbase, we've moved on and also want different things. Somethings continue to be problems but other things get fixed quick-fast-and-in-a-hurry. The priorities feel off. I understand development is difficult and time consuming, but it feels like Bungie keeps putting the "cart before the horse" in that regard too. I feel like the last time we had any innovation was the Vow of the Disciple raid via Rhulk. Before that it was Gambit Prime (which was awesome). I feel like if Bungie focused on innovation, fun and the big problems the community brings up (and could act timely to it), we'd be have a healthier game. I feel like if Bungie took both community feedback and the initiative on creativity, things would be better.
Wow! You’re right! When you asked about the encounter where there’s a boss that’s shielded and you have to kill an underling that drops something to break the the boss’s shield to apply damage so you can damage the boss, I thought “Vex Incursion!” IT’S THE SAME STUFF OVER AND OVER AGAIN! Wow! Maybe it’s time to give Helldivers a try! Everyone in my clan is playing it sooooooo….yeah.
You are absolutely justified in saying this, it's kind of absurd how much the community has to make a big deal out of things in order to see really anything change. Given what we've learned about Bungie, I assume it's a management issue. It's frustrating when I game that has this much potential is just left to stagnate.
Pretty sure we have metals in game for modes we still haven’t got, rather than feeling like a game that has been built up over years it feels like destiny is a game constantly trying to catch up. It’s a finished game as in complete and functional yet somehow feels completely unfinished.
I think the dev team was/is fully aware of the state of the game. Unfortunately they are not in charge allocating resources for updates, changes and innovations. What we see now is the devs getting the time to adress some of the fires.
I'll be honest, I completely disagree with your take that "Bungie has nailed down the looter shooter aspect." I think the looter aspect has been left to languish and it was never that exciting to begin with. Why do we even have weapon rarities? Why is it that once I have some good armor, the incentive to get more is non-existent? Why is there only armor and weapons to chase? I have a strong solution to the weapon loot aspect if you're interested. The only aspect that still sings in this game is the shooting, the gameplay feel. Everything else is dated and lacks innovation.
So I just play pvp only and very casually - if I want a god roll I use an exotic? Or casually craft one if I care enough like say drang. But the grind for perfect rolls on armor and weapons isn’t worth the effort. In pvp, nothing beats an exotic- ace, thorn, etc are better than rose or austringer god rolls. For me as a pvp main it’s not the gun it’s your skill, and with so much ability spam, overshields and the bs movement hacks like swords or dash, the skill gap got real narrow. It’s a casual game. But the gunplay is still really pure when the networking and cross platform isn’t screwing you
I agree with everything you said in this video, especially regarding how long it takes to make adjustments. The only thing I'd add from my own perspective is that personally I don't care about innovation at all. I'm just still waiting for the game to consistently work right. They could add new modes, come up with new mechanics, add new maps, etc... But that wouldn't make any difference to me until melees register properly, teleporting and shots just going through players are minimized, etc. Probably 30-50% of my matches (on next gen console) contain significant engagements that are determined by factors outside of player control. And that ruins any sense of competition or sense of improving to me.
My take is if they want to charge more than the price of a full game for additional content, there better be more than a full game of content. Problem is there never is, then it isn't fun, or it's a minor permutation of a preexisting event, and on top of all that... timegating. Not to mention the swap to free to play after people had already invested potentially hundreds of dollars
It would be cool if we were able to alter our weapons stats by swapping attachments like scopes, barrels and stuff rather than perks. And perks could just be special effects added by some unique attachments
Its not super hard to come up with concepts, like you could literally ask anyone in any field ever "hey how should players accomplish X goal to defeat X Boss. I know nothing about programming so I won't say anything there but Bungie can't make an encounter that doesn't either have a ball, circle, or buff to damage a boss. Simple spitballing ideas. 1. Have a boss that can be damaged at all times but have to build up a meter or complete objectives/ obstacles to Ramp up damage dealt for a time and have that be the main premise, balancing objectives with dealing consistent damage. 2. Have a boss with Randomly Split teams of 3's or 2's that have to work together to bring the bosses shields down and damage the boss as the boss rotates from zone to zone as the players are divided. 3. Have a multi boss setup in different areas of a map with different objectives to complete to damage said bosses. Think Daughters of Oryx but with separate areas. Heck or more bosses with smaller health bars like another group of Six Hive Guardians that battle our raid team of Six. Of course these are just Raid examples that I made on the fly at 11ish in the middle of the night, but the thought is there. It's not hard to get ideas, but like I said earlier I have no programming knowledge and have no idea how long something like that would take to make. Doing encounters that feel fresh would be worth an entire half year/ full year wait time. I'd pay whatever price or wait however long. I just want more expansion of mechanics on a game I've been playing since release on D1.
Feels almost like death by a 1000 cuts. I used to complain to my chums years ago how I wish the destinations felt more alive. You can practically memorize what enemies will be in certain spots. I appreciated that one season where Siva pods started showing up or Vex were invading because it made it vibrant and unexpected. While watching all this "Helldivers 2" content (I don't play) it made appreciate that those players feel like they are part of a group effort. Can see the results of battles against enemies. What if Guardians actually had to protect the tower ? What if game didn't feel so scripted and robotic ? There certainly have been quality of life improvements no doubt but I scarcely care about loot any more so feels like a deletion simulator. Eververse - no longer micro but macro-transactions is ridiculous plus New Light experience is garbage. Want so much more for game but more and more think it is all crumbling.
Owned by Sony. Not managed by them. I'm no fan of Sony myself since I grew up with Nintendo and Microsoft but I'll give credit where credit is due here. Right now Sony has absolutely no say in how Bungie is actually managed, all of that is still handled in house. That said, a reckoning is coming if they continue to screw up. Sony's CEO visited the company just within the last month and pointed out that while the actual developers were more than just praiseworthy... the upper management had been consistently missing production deadlines and mishandling company finances, and that entire round of layoffs that cost the company Michael Salvatori last year was a direct attempt to make their finances look good on paper so Sony wouldn't do just that. In other words, the corporate executives threw everyone else under the bus to hold onto their jobs, to the point of refusing pay cuts when asked if that was an option to keep other developers employed at the company. There was a not so subtle warning that if they continued to screw up Bungie's board of directors would be dissolved and Sony would take direct control of the company rather than just funding the studio as a second party developer.
I'm to the point where every Tuesday I log in long enough to get my red borders from the helm and the weekly rotator exotic mission, and then I'm done for the week. I can't even get interested enough to finish the seasonal challenges.
I feel that it's really hard to understand exactly what goes on behind the curtain. There's definitely a balance between bungie lacking the tools to make big changes and lacking the willingness to invest with the capabilities they have. Whatever the truth is, it feels really bad for the entire pvp half of the game to feel so neglected. That being said, I will probably always be drawn to the incredible gunplay that this game uniquely provides, and I'm incredibly glad to see that positive changes like the ones announced can still happen.
Been Destiny 2 sober since July 26 2023. I stopped playing around the middle part of the underwater season. I have been wanting to play it again but then I see a video or a tweet and I throw the idea on the back burner and play Dying light 2 or Bejeweled 2 or 3
I personally think right when Beyond Light was announced and then released and removed all of the cool content and weapons and expansions that I and many others paid for. That was when I started to see the full picture that Bungie doesn't care.
Nah dude youre right. Taken king was around $40 when it released, we got a campaign, a raid, a destination full of things to do, what like 3 new strikes, an update to old locations to feature the new enemies, and a bunch of new maps. Now an expansion in like $40-50. One maybe two strikes, no new maps, an empty destination, it really feels like weve been getting less for our money recently
The way I've managed to keep coming back to destiny is I do the bare minimum on seasons I don't vibe with. Aka I'll do the story and maybe get some of the weapons if they seem worth my time. Otherwise I'll just go play another game for a bit and pretty much do a destiny detox. For a grindy looter game I'll play warframe and something less grindy is fallout 76. Works great for me since I feel great when I play destiny and if I stop feeling great I have other games to go play in the meantime.
Ive said it before, the dev and management teams just want a cool office to hang out in and a good paycheck, they dont want to work on games, they want to make art and find it insulting that you play with their art.
if they can walk in drop 5 lines of code and go home in 20 minutes while on a salary thats the bungie ideal. why do you think everything is so low effort.
i was thinking this a bit reading the twid myself. like "wow these changes are great, but why wasn't this done earlier?" one of the game modes i've wanted to see since D1Y1 is being put in, a mode where there are no abilities or supers. i remember hearing that mayhem was coming with the taken king and getting upset that is was the exact opposite of what i wanted from pvp. 10 years later and the mode i wanted is finally being put in, but it's at least 9 years too late. i've already moved on and accepted that i wasn't getting that mode. they've let the sentiment of pvp get so bad that players aren't super hyped about getting good updates, they are upset that it took so long. like the person who owed you $20 bucks only paying you back 5 years later. it's cool that you are getting $20, but man it would've been much nicer if it was done sooner, when it was still on your mind and you hadn't resigned to never getting the $20 back. personally, i think they are leaning too much into new game modes. like i don't mind playing control over and over, but the reason i don't play pvp anymore is the incentive and focus to play pve has been much higher. i know that pvp will always be there when i'm finished with all the time sensitive pve stuff that i need to finish now. but by the time i finish it, im either tired of playing, or there's new pve stuff to go and do. imo, it's a hole they've dug themselves.
D2's state is because of management. Same thing recently came out about old 343 devs that wanted to do all kinds of Halo story arcs and ODST type content but were shut down. The only hope is for Bungie management to get the boot due to not making enough $$$ and have Sony take over. Hopefully, Sony will then give it into the devs hands and let them over deliver like the devs want to.
Surprised d2 hasn't done an extraction mode for gambit that requires orbital ordinance like what we had in halo reach. Still hope we get vehicles in pvp again.
had 1800 hours of actual in game time JUST on destiny 2, not counting D1. mid last year i bought cheats and carried ppl in PVE activities and through raids, never used them in pvp. anyway i got banned a couple weeks later and i wasn’t even pissed after spending hundreds of dollars on that account, not pissed at all, just relieved, haven’t played since and i don’t regret it at all
I can definitely see where you are coming from. Especially with newer games dining similar things a whole lot better. Like with Deep Rock Galactic (Rock and Stone) the devs are very supportive and communicate and when the community starts to ahbe a problem they go in and fix it. I agree that it might not be a bad idea to try out some other games and if Desitny crashes and burns or finally have to jump ship, youll already have a point to jump to. And hey, you wont loose everyone. There will definitely be those that will leave, but you have some that will stay. Plus you wont be jumping into a void. There will already be a community in whatever game you pick that will start to notice and share your videos. Either way, i can see what you are getting at. We are greatful for the chage we are getting but the rate and effort it takes to get that chage doesnt bode well for the survival of the game.
I know this is off-topic, but does someone know where does the sound/melody from the beginning of the video come from? I know it's from a game, and it's on the tip of my tongue, but i can't quite place it.
I quit playing right before beyond light released in 2020 but I've been watching how the game has been progressing. Nothing seems to have really changed since I quit playing.
Fishing - imagine if you had to throw chum in the water that triggered the fish to jump out of the water and then with a strand based "harpoon" you shoot them with a tether that drags them to shore when shot out of the air as they fly (quickly) about (there's floaty fish like things in game). Far more interesting than using a rod, waiting for a prompt, click. yawn. Same with sparrow racing BUT add ability weapons to the sparrows (freeze - slow the shoit sparrow, jolt - sends it uncontrollable, strand that sticks to the sparrow in front of you which speeds you up and catapults you ahead of them etc etc) and the obvious dog fights in your ship.... D3?
There is nothing wrong with feeling like things are being dragged out, because they are. Changes take time, not just development time, but also collecting the data proving that certain changes are worth the time investment and upheaval. It's fine to feel frustration at something you want to love.
I feel as though one game that has united all of my closest gaming buddies together has been Warframe. Nothing has showcased the lack of innovation, the disregard for narrative, and the insultingly predatory monetization of D2 than Warfame. Me and all of my friends hopped into WF's Whispers In The Wall update and were stunned by the amount of QOL changes we have been begging for being added, the wonderfully insane story being told, and the amount of varied content to catch up on. It was like night and day, and looking back at Destiny 2 has made me realize... What has Bungie done of substance in the past few years that wasn't done solely because they needed to keep the players placated until they forget their poor situation again?...
In my opinion, it’s a mix of both entitlement, and also reasonable concerns. You are asking for a better game. That takes time. But more time has passed and the game is the same. You ask why isn’t the game better, the game then gets better. Are you then entitled to say that took to long. Yes. But it is bad to have a negative outlook after that. You can’t ask for a cookie and then ask what took so long when you get to cookie. I say we acknowledge that, yes it did take a long time, but we smile at the fact that we finally got our wishes. The only thing left to do is to never let it happen again. We let bungie sunset, but now we are regretting that fact. We have to treat it like sunsetting. The concept of never again.
3:54 "nailed down the looter shooter aspect". I don't agree. - Where is strike specific loot? - Where can I loot the armor and weapons of my enemies? - Where is the progression system? - Where are unique master rewards for each dungeon besides the boring artifice armor with not even good stats and nothing else to it? (not talking about cosmetics) - Where are the customizable sights on weapons? - Where are any challenges for cosmetics besides a handful of them in 7 years? Where are special flawless ornament and armor for trials like in d1? Can we get something other than a fucking emblem for flawless dungeons? I hope you read this because I'd like to know what you think about this. Maybe my definition of a looter shooter is wrong but idk. I just don't see it. For context, I've been playing the game since Destiny 1 Taken King and have done pretty much everything in both games from PVE to PVP.
I agree with you here, it's a lot like Bungie's pattern they've been called out for with other additions like synthstrand, where they take ages to add something there's been lots of fan demand for, only to add a needlessly grindy and complicated/ expensive version of it, then a season or two later they trim the fat off that system and streamline it. It launches in a highly disagreeable state, so when Bungie adjusts it to not be quite so outrageous it gives the impression that "they're listening to the community!" even though the end result is still one of the worst transmog systems I've seen. Arguably how Stasis and Strand both launched broken to be tuned down later is another example. Crafting used to have a short list of dedicated materials that served no other purpose. Even if the changes we get are all you've ever wanted, it's not ungrateful to be dissatisfied about the fact it took multiple years of mass fan outcry to see it happen. Especially when so much of it seemed to be spent screaming into an uncaring void with no signs of anything coming of it. "too little too late" is a saying for a reason and at times Destiny really feels like it's trying to get away with walking a path right up against the edge of that threshold. "Glad we got it, not pleased it took years" is a valid sentiment.
You nailed it. Every time they line up with what needs to be done, the things the community has been stressed over forever...they are so late getting to that point the community is already burnt out and it makes the improvements feel like a consolation prize rather than the developer working towards the community concerns.
Yeah it's like this interaction Players: "Alright that's good now fix this other shit your ignoring." Bungie:"Excuse me aren't you grateful I fixed this clearly glaring issue?" P: "no because this has been a glaring issue for so long we stopped giving a shit when more glaring problems, that were worse appeared." B: "wow I can't believe you have the nerve to get angry at us, we can do whatever we want because this is our game not yours."
The reason it takes so long to make changes to problems is that they don't feel a reason to act on something old when they can work on new, like why work on an old dungeon when you can start the development of a old dungeon. They address it now to help with the final shapes ease into the community so people don't have to complain about it, so people can focus on the good.
I’m grateful for Bungie adding a solo feature for ALL PvP… I like less space magic but I like the movement as well as the gun play. Variables can’t be balanced when the multiplayer network issues are suboptimal mostly, which is why they don’t talk about it. I dunno, I still play and I’ll play Marathon too
PVE: *we get something new-ish but semi recycled every season* PVP: *we only get something new every few years* Gambit: *wait, you guys get new stuff?* welcome PVP players, your in our world now
You know Mesome, Bungie ALREADY abandoned Destiny, just not in the traditional way. They've sacrificed innovation and, at this point, years of man-hours just to sell another 20 dollar set of cosmetics. Bungie has mismanaged and underdeveloped Destiny for years. Everyone who comments that they stopped playing Destiny always seem to say that the game had them wrapped up in FOMO to the point of it feeling like Stockholm syndrome in retrospect. To you, it's only one raid. Only a few games of PvP or Gambit, hell, maybe there's something you want from the dungeon. Worst of all, let's say you're grinding lost sectors for exotics. (How many years did it take for them to implememt exotic focusing?) To them, to anyone not wrapped up in destiny, it is months on end of the same stuff. It does not take you 5 seconds, 5 minutes, but potentially an hour to even get to a stage where you have a chance at the gun you want. Over and over, yet the terribly tried "kill ads, kill guy, get thing, shoot thing, boss damage" should make people realize what an exhaustive grind it is, and how there has not been much for innovation anywhere. On top of all this, weapon reskins, lazy story writing, powercreep, it might all have been solved with major gameplay changes on LAUNCH, much less having dedicated and passionate teams introducing new and exciting things that weren't just a shiny new exotic year after year. PvP maps and the entirety of Gambit have had their time thrown away over the years to prioritize paid story content (emphasis on paid, as Bungie doesn't care much for anyone playing "free-to-play"), and don't even get me started with the time wasted surrounding "sunsetting." As for PvP, this point should drive even further home, as all the players have received nothing for their efforts until a collective speak up and say "Hey, maybe we could have just one map after years of running on fumes that would have left other games dead years ago." Y'all are tenacious, I'll give you that, but it doesn't feel like destiny's playerbase even has the mental capacity to quit. I understand this functions as your way to make money, but let's focus on this massive playerbase for how much time they've collectively spent without realizing other games make content faster, with higher quality, and with more integrity. I've played Borderlands 2 for years. Replayable story, mods being developed and released to this day, offline play, and a true co-op experience where you can farm dedicated loot from specific areas quickly and efficiently. Basically a ton of plus points, from a direct side-by-side comparison. Destiny 2 trumps my Borderlands hours by 3 times. 1800 > 600 hours. I couldn't ever realize the time I was spending in Destiny because it functions like Interstellar time dilation. Warframe has been approaching 1200 hours for me, and the game is fully free to play. Expansions are slow but they're for a game that already has years of content. Just like destiny, it takes about 30 or 60 or even 100 hours to get good, but Warframe at least gets GOOD. Genshin fucking Impact. I would call it a 100% better experience than Destiny 2 at this point. All their previous content is fully accessible, no sunsetting. The game is entirely free to play, no paywalls for campaigns, or dungeons, etcetra. The monetization is ARGUABLY LESS PREDATORY, because all you're gambling on is some funny pixels on the screen to attack with. You're not gambling for guns (funny pixels), for a better storyline, or for any new maps to be added in. You are forced to gamble your TIME if you play either game, but Genshin Impact WILL deliver new story, new characters, all of it being free to play. I don't think it's ungrateful to want more out of the game. What I want you to realize is that you can get more out of other games. I've clicked off your build videos focusing on Strand because I cannot justify giving Bungie money. Let me say, however, I'll be much more supportive of literally any other game you cover at this point of Destiny's life.
I 100% agree. Destiny feels like it can be so much more but we just get half baked teases. Like imagine every season the big bad guy armour invades a planet and Gardians have to defend it Helldiver2 style? And we can carry out special Striker team style missions while figthing off the bad guy of the season army. As a comunity we have regain certain lost sectors before we can start even farming for the season exotics. And they make special loot similar to tears of sorrow. Also I know they gave us alot of info on PVP, but why dont we have more regular game modes for casual play like simple TEAM Death matches. And on that note why don't bungie suppost and count atual assist players? we have so much things that can contribute to assist ( over shield, heals, radiant buffs) and exotics that do things to help with assist crest of alpha lupai, luminous and so on.
You’re not wrong; the Destiny pain points can spread and infect your whole outlook on life. The first week that I put down Destiny by choice, successively, (after previously averaging 14-hour GM and Raid Grinding Days seven days a week), the very first week I dropped it I got a girlfriend and my parents were commenting on how much happier I seemed; I was steadier and happier at my few shifts at work. Just get out of this hell we’re all in friends. Good luck, seriously.
At this point, I've stopped playing Destiny as much as I used to because of how repetitive things are (even with the encounter game, I thought of several encounters BUT the one you thought of), and I feel like it's stagnated. This TWID hasn't given me any drive to return either - especially with most of my playstyles being hit by it. I love the game, but I would prefer for some risks to be made.
You're not wrong for asking why, as the games promised 10 years of bungie quality and during that time it was unsuccessful. "See that mountain, you can go there " being the first of bungies broken promises back in destiny 1 trailers. It's nigh impossible after Halo to follow up with a successor especially with how base d1 launched. It's been a rough time being a bungie fan, as I only gotten back into destiny's world at the Season of the lost, before witch queen and I thought it was maybe perhaps possible that bungie could pull this 10 year adventure off in such a grand fashion. I may be rambling at this point so I'll just say this. You're not wrong for feeling as you have, coming from a person wanting more innovation from older franchises. (looking at you pokemon) At the end of the day you can't count on the companies to make the things that give you value, but for you to put value in yourself and the time you spend. Whether Destiny lives or dies isn't as important as what matters to you as a creator. I love your videos and content produced so even if you have to give up on Destiny in the future for your own betterment I'll still be there watching your stuff when I can.
I'll keep banging this drum, there is no way Bungie invested in this PvP overhaul if they planned on little or no content after TFS and the first 3 Episodes. Now if they get the numbers to continue is a different story
i gave up playing destiny in April last year, and looks like there's still the same sentiment. Bungie refusing to make the most basic of fixes or addition of much needed things, until a big creator makes a fuss or everyone makes a fuss about it, and still takes months even years to implement. obviously i'm not a game dev, its probably hard to change stuff, especially with people online bashing everything you do, but i wish they would just go and actually make changes and tweak it if turns out a garbage change, instead of taking months to announce that it'll be fixed next season. Swing and a miss. Maybe next time slugger.
I think all the changes are coming now because they no longer have any seasonal content to crutch. So all the resources that would normally be going to seasonal content, is going into fixing all of the existing content and fixing final shape. They've essentially course corrected. Frankly, the seasonal content isn't sustainable and never was
I totally agree with you. It took forever to get pvp updates. I honestly think that Sony is pissed about the delay and moved in to let them know if Final Shape doesn't do well, they are taking the reigns. I think that deep down, bungie knows the best thing about the game is gun play. And the oldest bungie fans play their games for the great gun play. So they figure, let's make our original fans, who are heavy on pvp, happy and come back to purchase final shape. I think this is the reason and the strategy. Sony lit a match under them.
I believe the words Sony's leadership recently posted echo your sentiment. They posted criticism of Bungie leadership with regard to getting things done in a timely manner and properly managing their funds.
I want the last city. I want to feel like my guardian has a reason to protect the city and the eliksni. We could have had tons of unique vendors and people like a marketplace in the last city, feeling like it was a city filled with culture and skilled tradespeople. Instead we have....Tess Everis
❤ Please read: Mesome, I watch your content for you and what you bring to my screen. I dont think D2 has anything worthy to give until Final Shape. Try new games. I recommend starting with Deep Rock Galactic to decode the grind habits. Maybe Helldivers idk. For single player, try Tunic. I feel it is right up your alley. For PvP, try Halo Infinite, Splitgate, even Fortnite possibly. These are things i think both you and an audience would really enjoy seeing. Even if you just make a change for the sake of novelty, it will still be you, and that is who I have faith in. ❤
They established what destiny was back in D1 and continued that identity all the way up until SK where they completely switched everything up with it being free, seasons and I think that was good for the time but it became too repetitive and brought in people from the mmo space, the rpg space and the Gaas space which are similar yet conflicting and I think bungies trying to filter the rights from the wrongs.
I think the point is that Destiny is a pve game, and they actually needed to create a pvp strike team, as they did, and this is working out now. Production takes time and testing
This game simply feels like it has zero direction and is simultaneously trying to appease every type of player with shallow activities. Every piece of armor, gun, sparrow, ship - whatever feels like bland or reskinned. Core activities are so dated and BEYOND over played because of previous quest requirements. The story consists of 15 minutes of gameplay for 2 minutes of talking, once a week for 8 weeks, then radio silence. Raids and dungeons always introduce the same "plate or glowy spot" mechanic, just with a slight twist to match the theme. boring mechanics with a long lead up to a short damage phase is the worst and not challenging. A large portion of the coolest looking items are locked behind a paywall, or require more grinding of the same exact activities everyone is tired of, just to save bright dust for when the item you want finally comes around. Cheaters are running rampant. Hunters, Titans and Warlocks don't really have well defined roles anymore, and I'd even say Warlocks feel lost and their gameplay loop doesnt match their identity anymore. This game just feels like a shell of the vision it once had... and I'm over it. I'll play The Final Shape just to finish the series out, then I'm done.
Your right, bungie has played it safe, mildly pleasing everyone in the short term but, long term? I think the journey is supposed to be the fun, but, if it’s a slog to get through to get a shiny new gun, then people will do something else for fun.
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No, you're not wrong. I've been yelling at Bungie since D2 launched to give us Sparrow Racing back. And I will not get off my pedestal till then.
Destiny 2 as just gotten very stale recently. its to the point i only play it for the pvp because thats all thats semi fun anymore.
Two of my biggest issues with why I have avoided destiny for 8 months only logging on for free bright dust, is one I feel like eveytime I make something I like in pve it gets nerfed or is not strong enough for any higher content. Two I cannot remember the last non exotic gun that felt special or had a combo I was excited to use or try (Not like they have ways for people to know what rolls a gun can roll with in game anyway) guns in destiny are so boring to me unless they are exotic that I just make ability based builds
I think this first part will bring back some memories, but please read the rest too.
At 9:28 - 10:00 when you were mentioning a PvE encounter, I thought of Hasapiko from Menagerie - the Minotaur boss.
Your point is that even with all these activities that are supposed to be “unique” we’ve seen it all before. I’ve known this for years now, and it’s such a shame some people still don’t. It’s also a shame that Bungie is still relying on the same 3 mechanics (Ball relics, Plates, Symbols) as crutches to carry Endgame Content. There is SO much they can do if they just thought about it!
As for your guys’s comments above, I 100% agree:
@desertphoenix6980 - Sparrow racing should return. It was a fun aspect of PvP that was unique for Destiny. And if it were to return, we have an event fit perfectly for its style - Guardian Games. After all, why not put a fun competition between guardians in the event all about fun competition between each other?
@Revenant_Striker - Yep. I’ve started investing into actually making PvP builds for once cause there’s nothing else to do that’s enjoyable - even though I hate PvP, especially D2’s with a burning passion.
@Redazzer200 - Going with your first point, unfortunately for PvE you only have 3 options: it’s either use the meta, use very specific niche stuff, or get out. It’s why I’ve found less enjoyment in that aspect of the game - the only way I sometimes manage to is when I do something immensely hard (Solo Flawless Dungeons specifically), or help people when they need it. And even then, it’s only sometimes at most.
-For your second point, you’re on the money. There’s no real point to chasing a legendary weapon nowadays. Other than specific, recent perk combos, most players already have something for any given scenario. I could spend over an hour listing all the guns I have that are non-sunset with replica’s in the current day of the game.
It’s the one reason Sunsetting was good, cause it made us actually look through the new gear for replacements of our old stuff. Unfortunately, the window the Sunsetting phase gave was too short. It should’ve been 2 years, not 3/4 of a year. (Hindsight - hoo boy, I know saying Sunsetting was good will cause a riot, but I stand firmly by my decision with absolute certainty)
Your not in the wrong for wanting more innovation nor for being upset at what to took for it to come out, but I would say that it is important that we try to focus on encouraging bungie towards the right path as opposed to scaring them away from it with negative comments. Not to say that errors shouldn't be pointed out. They should be, but should be done in a way that highlights what bungie is doing right right now so as to keep them on course instead of derailing. A good analogy would be to say we have given bungie the stick for their mistakes but we now need to ensure they know what gets them the carrot.
Why does it feel like playing destiny is like staying in a toxic relationship? Where the community is fully invested, or wants to be, and the developers are like "you get this much attention from me and it's take it or leave it so..."
I mean I'm fine with it myself. Lol
Honestly, it does feel like that, especially with the D2 development higher ups, they arent letting the true team of D2 give the players what THEY want, plus one of the lead devs of D2 LEFT THE TEAM because of the amount of greed.
Edit: They also are ending up putting EVERYTHING BEHIND A PAY WALL, which is something the die hard D2 fans (not talking about anyone specific) DON'T want.
@infernalwolf6333 yea it just sucks because I want destiny to be the best that it can be and it CAN be great... but I also can't seem to stay away for too long. I think I always take like 6 month breaks and something always pulls me back in... just like a toxic ex XD
its because destiny is a PVE game and PVPers are the only ones that complain really XD its a PVE focused game, cope and seethe kid.
@malcolm355 it's not just PvP players, some PvE players are also complaining to Bungie about this as well
The Sony executive mentioned something that hasn't gotten as much traction as I thought. Excessive use of business expenses. When companies get fat and happy, they get sure of themselves and get lazy. Top management starts costly vanity improvements that do not contribute to product or profit. That executive's recognition of wasting resources better towards production is something ive wondered about these last few years.
Oh the community felt an heard what he said now we just wait to see if they'll deliver or pray that we didnt hear what sony said.
Bro that message was longer than the one one on the lucky pants
I wonder how much their investment in a massively expanded and renovated HQ building informed this assessment, especially in a world where so much of their staff probably spends a majority of time WFH.
Their own careers site mentions "New-hire lunches, social clubs, employee events - however you have fun, there's something for everyone!", which I expect are the kind of thing that a corp exec would expect to see reduced during hard times. They also have a wide range of affinity groups which I assume the company funds, though those seem unlikely to be a huge cash drain (what are the chances that all together they cost as much as the salary and benefits of a single employee, for example). Bungie also does expensive merch initiatives like the Nerf Gjallarhorn, and though I don't know how well that did it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that's certain to turn a profit given how complex that process must have been.
I expect we'll see a lot of belt tightening around perks and 'culture' things at Bungie in coming months, especially if Final Shape is a wet fart financially.
With Destiny all complaints feel like: "We're doing this because we love you" and it makes me sad despite knowing that it's true
Ah the mechanic of standing on glowy spot one of 3 destiny mechanics for all encounters.
and banking motes, that one is my personal favourite
Stand in glowy spot, shoot glowy spot, bank glowy thing.
Basically the only 3 noteworthy mechanics
Edit: typo
mfw when I have to throw another reskinned version of a fucking ball
I got away from destiny 2 last year and it made me realize how much of a job this game felt like for all those seasons. They try and base their engagement on fomo and it's just exhausting after awhile to always feel like you're missing something
this is a you issue, if the game feels like a job it's because you don't control your emotions enough! If you can't look at some weapon or armor and say "I don't need this" or "I'm not going to do this because it's not fun" that's because you lack control over your emotions. I hate doing it, but video games have warped mind of people playing them into brainless dopamine junkies, primarily FPS games
@@scarletnoct5807 if this was a "me" issue videos like this wouldn't have to exist. if you can't accept that the game is in a bad place I don't even know what to say because you aren't seeing reality
@@scarletnoct5807 Quit gaslighting people into thinking the game is good when its not. Helldivers 2 has much better baseline gameplay than Destiny 2 will ever have, simply because of its dynamic map and not being a bunch of pre-generated linear missions. The monetization is also better, you don't feel pressured to buy stuff from the daily shop because you can also earn the premium currency in-game and in the free pass. I could keep naming things such as their emphasis on balance so that everything becomes mediocre. This is honestly just cope from people who are still buying from Bungie.
@@johndoe1274 Exactly, I got my 40 hours out of helldivers and I don't feel like I'm being forced to log in every single day for some tedious menial tasks that Bungie has been recycling since forsaken. This dude is borderline delusional to try and defend this game in its current state
This is the exact reason why I finally got burnt out of Destiny going through Beyond Light. A big chunk of it was having most of my friend groups leave the game's community through various years starting back in Taken King. I stuck with the game as long as I had both because I still had some friend groups that played it, and because I had the time to give to the game. However around the time of the first year of the Seasonal model, I had college to deal with full-time and shortly after a career to deal with too. And the more I got dragged away from Destiny, the more I realized just how much time Bungie was forcing me to invest, to keep up with content creators. To keep up with the PvE and PvP lords of the game. To keep up with the grind hell that they'd turned Destiny into, and to keep myself relevant in the game. And as soon as I realized that, I decided then and there to delete the game and not turn back. I poured my later school years and life into that game because I thought I was having fun; instead, I only found out I was never Bungie's target audience, and they only care for players that can pour a 40-hour work *day* into the game to keep themselves relevant.
After experiencing how devoted and open the Helldivers devs are, Bungie has a lot of room for improvement.
Sparrow Racing League was my favorite addition to the game and they didn't even give it a solid go
I can't reiterate enough - i was taking a break from destiny during SRL and told myself I'd just catch it on a rerun. Because live service games have events that re-run, and improve and change a bit. Right?
They really should have added it to d2
you aren't wrong, the helldivers dev team took what, three weeks tops, to fix their server bottleneck issue and bungie which is many many times bigger still has problems that are years old or even as old as the game itself
whats even crazier is that it wasnt a server issue with helldivers 2: it was a code issue. the game was LITERALLY not built to handle the amount of players they had. they had to go into the code and rebuild entire sections of it.
Could be just me but personally everything felt like it went wrong with sunsetting. That is the clear point in time I can look to where stuff started to go wrong. We had a nice completed game, then a huge chunk was ripped out. Everything since then is trying so hard to fill in that chunk but doesn't fit right. They're trying to rectify a problem they created but in a way that's not working. I'm not a game dev so I cant speak on how to properly fix things so I wont, but I will agree the game feels wrong at the moment. I still love it and still play it daily, but the magic just doesn't feel like its there anymore.
And tbh when they rip away items and things that you spend days grinding for its like a punch to the gut. I left d2 when bl came out because the time i spent playing up till that point was worth nothing
The way Bungie puts it is that they sunset a lot of content because it took up too much space, and older generation consoles simply didn't have the space to deal with it. People have collectively agreed that Sunsetting was a bad move and shouldn't have happened (at least the stories, the planets, and the raids shouldn't have been sunset.) The opinions on what could have been done instead of Sunsetting varies wildly, with some more radical takes being to drop oldgen console support entirely in favor of sunsetting. I know a lot of weapons were sunset when The Taken King came out back in Destiny 1, but that's all that was sunset. I think if Bungie just hit the weapons and not anything else, people would be fine (even though the main reason why weapons were sunset aka pinnacle weapons wouldn't be that strong in modern Destiny 2 as they were back then.)
@lordpumpkinhead265 I definitely think they will drop Xbox one and ps4 after Final Shape.
I think that such an lame excuse, plenty of devs learned to optimize their games. Bungie is a massive company and to take away content people payed for is bs no matter the limits on that hardware. @@lordpumpkinhead265
Additionally, it feels like they just listen to the small, louder voices, not the ones telling that small group that they're wrong and that the majority doesn't want that.
I understand the frustration in the same vein I find it absurd it took 8 years for an in game LFG or vault from orbit
8:11 you are not wrong! When it takes an entire group of people to make so change, then something is majorly screwed up
Bungie is able to respond extremely quickly to things that benefit the player, like effective event farming or a new cheese that trivialises content. They'll helicopter in and patch that shit immediately. But things that inconvenience the player take either months or years to fix, if at all.
Bro I still remember the shrieker bug in Seraph. I remember trying the legendary mission with my friends and that bug, despite being present in the early stages of that season, was still not patched by the end of the season. I didn't feel like running it solo because Bungie has a love of hyper tuning the enemies to a ridiculous degree and it takes a while for champion mods to actually work.
Honestly, why didn't they just take notes from D1 with difficult content? I get the desire to innovate but stuff like champions feel more like an annoyance rather than a challenge
Man, Gambit is my favorite game mode, it hurts that it has no innovation.
It was innovative for like one and a half seasons, then it got neglected harder than OEM overusage. I want it to be great again.
@SordidusFellatio pvp fps games are way, way less popular than they used to be.
Cod from 10 years ago, was more popular on its own than every current fps pvp games combined
Honestly I'd love some sort of endless mode that ramps up in difficulty the longer you go, also prison of elders mixed with menagerie and give it a new boss per season/episode.
There's a ton of things like SRL a patrol refresh so there's exotic events like neomuna, strike specific loot is another thing as that'd be better than this weird nightfall loot system we've got.
Exotic quests, hidden stuff in patrols, a PvP mode that's just hive swords, a PvP mode where you can't use abilities and it's just guns and a basic jump, a gambit game mode that is just what team can kill the most enemies and guardian kills decrease score.
We can sit here until final shape launches on what should/should've been added or left in the game, but in all honesty a game like destiny would be better if multiple developers were working on it instead of just bungie. Like a dev team that focuses on game modes and maps for crucible and gambit, one to fill out things like strikes and PvE based modes (prison of elders) and leave bungie to work on story stuff.
It's not ungrateful to feel like something hasn't been done or have taken ages because it's been said to death on multiple things and bungie were probably aware from the get go, they've made bad choices and here we are. I'm kinda glad Sony is stepping in and putting in resources to help out, but if Sony decides they need a shake up it may actually end up being good rather than bad, I mean look at what 343i went through with halo (weirdly a bungie thing too lol)
If Tyson can't get this thing in a good direction over the next year, I say give it to SONY. Clearly Bungie is making stupid amounts of money that goes..... where again? While they have been releasing obviously terrible-for-the-game temporary content made to be erased.... they could have overhauled the ENTIRE game by now. Strikes, crucible and gambit.
Yk what would be cool in final shape or next like activity, if we have to have ghost scan something, ghost just says “fuck it blow it up”
110%
The last time we had a “fuck it” moment from ghost was in witch queen when he wanted finch dead. Everyone I’ve asked, thought that was a major turning point, then he got soft again
@@RetroactiveEscapades if I remember correctly, there was a strike or a mission (I completely forget what) but ghost says how he’s tired of scanning stuff. I’m pretty sure it was beyond light but I could be wrong
I just played the mission yesterday its the sabotaging salvation quest and ghost just say "you know im really tired of scanning security terminals" or something like thit@@bacobjlack8574
I've taken a break in D2 and kind of grew apathetic to it right now, at least until TFS releases. Helldivers 2 is so much fun though, you're right! A breath of fresh air. Who would have thought that you need a genuinely good game at a fair price point to be this successful.
Many things from the first game were already in HD2, but I guess it took a switch to third person to be massively popular. I'm doing my part!
Despite my apathy for Destiny right now, I still hope it will get better. This game gave me so many hours of pure joy (frustration, too) that wish only the best for it too.
I'm in the same boat, my current partner who hasn't played destiny 2 saw my steam hours and said "how come you don't play this anymore you played this more than anything else"
Thus began the conversation on the apathy that grew throughout the years that culmination into the breakup after light fall
Sounds like you're spitting facts. Game needs a bit of freshness. Not new skins for things. Perhaps class specific things in a pve environment? Like, needing blink to get across a chasm to activate a bridge? Or a titan slam/smash ability to get through a wall? Having to sacrifice your super in order to light a brazier? Using our abilities to effect the environment to complete a challenge...
Shooting aliens is fine, but I want to look forward to something more than just seeing my body count at the end. I want more, "Oh, remember that time I..." or "Bro, that was so cool when you..."
I also think increasing exotic drop chance was a mistake. I liked when you saw that guy with an exotic and it shows they had to struggle to get it.
That’s a great idea. Would love to see abilities and supers interact with the environment! Also agreed with the exotic thing, it’s not special now.
Yes... take inspiration from games like Prey as well when making abilities, and do an ability overhaul to go with the environmental changes
I’m upset because this conversation will never happen again after we know our six senses
Its taken me a long time to get out of the destiny hell... if you need to move on, try other games. One will hit with you better.
Edit: another thing you need to realize, you can be successful going through other games. Find another game youre passionate about and stop feeling like you need to stay with bungie. Bungie needs to lose business. Theyre not worth anyone's time anymore.
Exactly. Once I took a break. I felt so much better enjoying other games and even playing less games entirely. Allowed me to be more productive and not in thiw constant state of annoyance with Destiny. Still one of my favorite games I ever played, but it still has to come to an end at some point. I'm just trying to have fun and I refuse to live for the grind
I just do what most addicts do, i replaced it with a similar addiction. I'm playing a lot of Warframe now
@@isaacgirouard5924 nice! Warframe used to be my jam. Glad you enjoy it :)
@@isaacgirouard5924 i would play warframe but honestly the grind is even worse than destiny man. i remember having to wait three irl days just to craft something for a fucking character
@@evidant not even that is bad if yk what to do, if u get prime parts or rare mods just sell them for plat. over time u will rack up a lot of plat and then u can just rush the production
Love how at 10:44 there was a “voice chat error” message because the service “was down”. As for my opinion, as a relatively new player, (started playing right before Stasis got its shady hands all over pvp meta) I joined when Bungie was heavily supported by the D2 community. Rightfully so, because they were pretty quick (as far as development goes) to fix shatterdive and such broken abilities. This was also around the time that Bungie pulled an Nintendo move, and sued the living hell out of the cheaters, completely demolishing them with no mercy like they were my opponents in the 7th trials match for flawless. Bungie was basically revered at the time, and I liked how connected they were with the community. I would rather have constant changes to the meta, or constant playlist updates that are unorthodox to change up the game, than just fixing problems that are a year overdue. Like the fact that the new exotic armor was nearly impossible to get through legend lost sectors until recently. But that came at the cost of legend lost sectors being more “difficult” by just raising the power level requirements. And that’s another thing. The power level system. Holy crap, it’s been a complaint for what, 5-6 years now? Half the existence of the Destiny franchise? And we’re being promised it’ll be changed in the Final Shape expansion, (which got delayed by 4 months, hope you didn’t waste $100 on the pre-order) but that’s essentially a worthless promise until then, and it’s caused many players to quit playing. Yet another thing, Bungie can CLEARLY fix issues quick, as seen by “The Craftening” weekend, but only when players are having fun. Even then, the glitch from that weekend was locked behind whether you had enough craft-able weapons, a frame rate cap, insane timing, and RNG-esus by your side, blessing your controls. Or 12-guardian raids/activities. You needed 11 friends to do it. And again, no harm no foul, because it was BEFORE raids and dungeons were farmable, only making it fun. And if they got a triumph or something, some sort of reward that was really hard to get normally, then so what? Bungie went from being a good, community-focused game studio making positive changes quick, to a bad, money-focused, greedy business that patched fun glitches even quicker.
I think those feelings are valid. The data driven approach that Bungie has mastered to tweak the sandbox probably tunnel visioned the devs, and so they started missing the forest for the trees
At 37sec you got Glizzy Gobblered!
Bro's Glizzy got Gobbled 💀
As someone that plays mostly pve and only in the last couple of years of playing more pvp, I feel like your feelings aren’t wrong. I completely understand wanting there to be more interesting ideas, wanting there to be new stuff that hasn’t been done before. I feel like it’s partially a matter of players are wanting new things as soon as possible without considering the situations Bungie has been facing lately. But I’m right there with you, even though I don’t play it as much as of late, I still love Destiny and am willing to see how far it’ll go until it dies.
Some attention to gambit (COZ THE POTENTIAL IS THERE, WE'VE SEEN OTHER PvEvP GAMES DO WELL RECENTLY) and some innovation past a new gun grind is very much a collective sentiment, we're with you in this
Gambit Prime was peak. It should come back, maybe with new maps to spice things up.
1:10 exactly. People are problem solving machines. It wasnt a problem they valued enough to solve. But that - I think you would call - a strategic decision. It is interesting that joe is gone for a minute and the new changes are announced.
they don't want to innovate because that would mean they need to "overdeliver"
Another thing about helldivers. Its mechanics are great. Basically playing DDR to call in ordinance and supplies is a phenomenal idea and is executed great. Your simple stuff (typically) has simple sequences making calling them in quick and easy for when you need to call something in quick like an eagle strafing run. The amount of times where shit got overrun and heavy ordinance was too complex to call in so I called in a strafing run on my feet towards the enemies is uncountable
you’re in the right. bungie captured many hearts with halo, then moved on to destiny and innovated on the concepts they made with halo reach. and that is where they kinda stayed since.
with the 3.0 subclasses they attempted to shift the roles and innovate a bit: titans switched from a defensive role to a cqc damage dealer. warlocks went from insane attackers to a more buff/debuff role, and my beloved hunters have gone from jack of all trades to a ad clearing class. of course there are outliers but that seems to be the new norm for the classes.
but aside from the 3.0 subclasses there has been next to no innovation. pvp always feels like there is someone that is better than you/hard cheating, pve is getting artificially harder (enemy’s are always +5 or more power now), and general activities are just lame or too gimmick focused (snowballs in dawning is a great example).
TFS collector's edition is a perfect example. We were supposed to have our og tower n all that by now. Even after the delayed launch, they stated it would still ship this month. Then they quietly pushed back the ship date on it. No explanation, not even an email saying it was pushed back. But they want us to keep our preorders and not cancel them
From the perspective of a newer player (stsrted at beginning of season of the deep) i personally have one main gripe about the game, and thats the fact of they try and get every cent out of you they can. You just bought a dlc? Nope, doesn’t come with the dungeon, you gotta buy the dungeon key, and it omly works for *that* dlc.
btw if you get a raid exotic you get a very intrusive popup in orbit asking you to buy the exotic ornament. it does not matter if you already have the ornament
@munin9530 when I first saw that, I thought I got a new ornament. Imagine my d disappointment when I didn't find the Damn thing anywhere
@@trance9872 yippie!!! you found it in the eververse store!!! time to find twenty dollars!!!!
As a day 1 player, I stopped 2 months ago. You aren't wrong in these feelings and thoughts as they aren't clear with us, the community, and they have only just been getting back on track, hopefully the changes at bungie may help take this beautiful game to another stage and level where it can grow. I will return, but I needed a long break even though I still watch all your videos. You are a godsend mesome, goog luck and good games to you.
Nah, I get it. I agree with you and do believe you're right. For a "live service game" to take this long, or for the D2 community to reach apathetic levels of frustration, to adjust/fix/correct something is wild. A lot of the times, it feels like the "fires" have burnt out and been ashes for a long time before Bungie does something. When Bungie does get around to reacting to the playerbase, we've moved on and also want different things. Somethings continue to be problems but other things get fixed quick-fast-and-in-a-hurry. The priorities feel off. I understand development is difficult and time consuming, but it feels like Bungie keeps putting the "cart before the horse" in that regard too. I feel like the last time we had any innovation was the Vow of the Disciple raid via Rhulk. Before that it was Gambit Prime (which was awesome). I feel like if Bungie focused on innovation, fun and the big problems the community brings up (and could act timely to it), we'd be have a healthier game. I feel like if Bungie took both community feedback and the initiative on creativity, things would be better.
Wow! You’re right! When you asked about the encounter where there’s a boss that’s shielded and you have to kill an underling that drops something to break the the boss’s shield to apply damage so you can damage the boss, I thought “Vex Incursion!” IT’S THE SAME STUFF OVER AND OVER AGAIN! Wow! Maybe it’s time to give Helldivers a try! Everyone in my clan is playing it sooooooo….yeah.
You are absolutely justified in saying this, it's kind of absurd how much the community has to make a big deal out of things in order to see really anything change. Given what we've learned about Bungie, I assume it's a management issue. It's frustrating when I game that has this much potential is just left to stagnate.
it’s not ungrateful when the time frame of your patience is months/years
Pretty sure we have metals in game for modes we still haven’t got, rather than feeling like a game that has been built up over years it feels like destiny is a game constantly trying to catch up. It’s a finished game as in complete and functional yet somehow feels completely unfinished.
Or they're modes that got taken out.
I think the dev team was/is fully aware of the state of the game.
Unfortunately they are not in charge allocating resources for updates, changes and innovations.
What we see now is the devs getting the time to adress some of the fires.
I'll be honest, I completely disagree with your take that "Bungie has nailed down the looter shooter aspect." I think the looter aspect has been left to languish and it was never that exciting to begin with. Why do we even have weapon rarities? Why is it that once I have some good armor, the incentive to get more is non-existent? Why is there only armor and weapons to chase? I have a strong solution to the weapon loot aspect if you're interested. The only aspect that still sings in this game is the shooting, the gameplay feel. Everything else is dated and lacks innovation.
So I just play pvp only and very casually - if I want a god roll I use an exotic? Or casually craft one if I care enough like say drang. But the grind for perfect rolls on armor and weapons isn’t worth the effort. In pvp, nothing beats an exotic- ace, thorn, etc are better than rose or austringer god rolls. For me as a pvp main it’s not the gun it’s your skill, and with so much ability spam, overshields and the bs movement hacks like swords or dash, the skill gap got real narrow. It’s a casual game. But the gunplay is still really pure when the networking and cross platform isn’t screwing you
The looter shooter aspect hasn't been nailed down by any other game other than Borderlands
I agree with everything you said in this video, especially regarding how long it takes to make adjustments. The only thing I'd add from my own perspective is that personally I don't care about innovation at all. I'm just still waiting for the game to consistently work right. They could add new modes, come up with new mechanics, add new maps, etc... But that wouldn't make any difference to me until melees register properly, teleporting and shots just going through players are minimized, etc. Probably 30-50% of my matches (on next gen console) contain significant engagements that are determined by factors outside of player control. And that ruins any sense of competition or sense of improving to me.
My take is if they want to charge more than the price of a full game for additional content, there better be more than a full game of content. Problem is there never is, then it isn't fun, or it's a minor permutation of a preexisting event, and on top of all that... timegating. Not to mention the swap to free to play after people had already invested potentially hundreds of dollars
It would be cool if we were able to alter our weapons stats by swapping attachments like scopes, barrels and stuff rather than perks. And perks could just be special effects added by some unique attachments
Its not super hard to come up with concepts, like you could literally ask anyone in any field ever "hey how should players accomplish X goal to defeat X Boss.
I know nothing about programming so I won't say anything there but Bungie can't make an encounter that doesn't either have a ball, circle, or buff to damage a boss.
Simple spitballing ideas.
1. Have a boss that can be damaged at all times but have to build up a meter or complete objectives/ obstacles to Ramp up damage dealt for a time and have that be the main premise, balancing objectives with dealing consistent damage.
2. Have a boss with Randomly Split teams of 3's or 2's that have to work together to bring the bosses shields down and damage the boss as the boss rotates from zone to zone as the players are divided.
3. Have a multi boss setup in different areas of a map with different objectives to complete to damage said bosses. Think Daughters of Oryx but with separate areas. Heck or more bosses with smaller health bars like another group of Six Hive Guardians that battle our raid team of Six.
Of course these are just Raid examples that I made on the fly at 11ish in the middle of the night, but the thought is there.
It's not hard to get ideas, but like I said earlier I have no programming knowledge and have no idea how long something like that would take to make.
Doing encounters that feel fresh would be worth an entire half year/ full year wait time. I'd pay whatever price or wait however long. I just want more expansion of mechanics on a game I've been playing since release on D1.
Feels almost like death by a 1000 cuts. I used to complain to my chums years ago how I wish the destinations felt more alive. You can practically memorize what enemies will be in certain spots. I appreciated that one season where Siva pods started showing up or Vex were invading because it made it vibrant and unexpected. While watching all this "Helldivers 2" content (I don't play) it made appreciate that those players feel like they are part of a group effort. Can see the results of battles against enemies. What if Guardians actually had to protect the tower ? What if game didn't feel so scripted and robotic ? There certainly have been quality of life improvements no doubt but I scarcely care about loot any more so feels like a deletion simulator. Eververse - no longer micro but macro-transactions is ridiculous plus New Light experience is garbage. Want so much more for game but more and more think it is all crumbling.
How are void overshields / barricades not addressed yet either
Thanks!
Holy crap dude thank you!
Bungie is owned by Sony. There’s no such thing as asking for too much from a company as big as that.
Owned by Sony. Not managed by them. I'm no fan of Sony myself since I grew up with Nintendo and Microsoft but I'll give credit where credit is due here. Right now Sony has absolutely no say in how Bungie is actually managed, all of that is still handled in house. That said, a reckoning is coming if they continue to screw up. Sony's CEO visited the company just within the last month and pointed out that while the actual developers were more than just praiseworthy... the upper management had been consistently missing production deadlines and mishandling company finances, and that entire round of layoffs that cost the company Michael Salvatori last year was a direct attempt to make their finances look good on paper so Sony wouldn't do just that. In other words, the corporate executives threw everyone else under the bus to hold onto their jobs, to the point of refusing pay cuts when asked if that was an option to keep other developers employed at the company. There was a not so subtle warning that if they continued to screw up Bungie's board of directors would be dissolved and Sony would take direct control of the company rather than just funding the studio as a second party developer.
I'm to the point where every Tuesday I log in long enough to get my red borders from the helm and the weekly rotator exotic mission, and then I'm done for the week. I can't even get interested enough to finish the seasonal challenges.
I feel that it's really hard to understand exactly what goes on behind the curtain. There's definitely a balance between bungie lacking the tools to make big changes and lacking the willingness to invest with the capabilities they have. Whatever the truth is, it feels really bad for the entire pvp half of the game to feel so neglected.
That being said, I will probably always be drawn to the incredible gunplay that this game uniquely provides, and I'm incredibly glad to see that positive changes like the ones announced can still happen.
Been Destiny 2 sober since July 26 2023. I stopped playing around the middle part of the underwater season.
I have been wanting to play it again but then I see a video or a tweet and I throw the idea on the back burner and play Dying light 2 or Bejeweled 2 or 3
I personally think right when Beyond Light was announced and then released and removed all of the cool content and weapons and expansions that I and many others paid for. That was when I started to see the full picture that Bungie doesn't care.
Nah dude youre right. Taken king was around $40 when it released, we got a campaign, a raid, a destination full of things to do, what like 3 new strikes, an update to old locations to feature the new enemies, and a bunch of new maps.
Now an expansion in like $40-50. One maybe two strikes, no new maps, an empty destination, it really feels like weve been getting less for our money recently
The way I look at it, they are actually doing things now. Conveniently after a mass layoff. Maybe some people didnt deserve their job there.
The way I've managed to keep coming back to destiny is I do the bare minimum on seasons I don't vibe with. Aka I'll do the story and maybe get some of the weapons if they seem worth my time. Otherwise I'll just go play another game for a bit and pretty much do a destiny detox. For a grindy looter game I'll play warframe and something less grindy is fallout 76. Works great for me since I feel great when I play destiny and if I stop feeling great I have other games to go play in the meantime.
Ive said it before, the dev and management teams just want a cool office to hang out in and a good paycheck, they dont want to work on games, they want to make art and find it insulting that you play with their art.
if they can walk in drop 5 lines of code and go home in 20 minutes while on a salary thats the bungie ideal. why do you think everything is so low effort.
What are you on about this generalizing at its finest
i was thinking this a bit reading the twid myself. like "wow these changes are great, but why wasn't this done earlier?" one of the game modes i've wanted to see since D1Y1 is being put in, a mode where there are no abilities or supers. i remember hearing that mayhem was coming with the taken king and getting upset that is was the exact opposite of what i wanted from pvp. 10 years later and the mode i wanted is finally being put in, but it's at least 9 years too late. i've already moved on and accepted that i wasn't getting that mode.
they've let the sentiment of pvp get so bad that players aren't super hyped about getting good updates, they are upset that it took so long. like the person who owed you $20 bucks only paying you back 5 years later. it's cool that you are getting $20, but man it would've been much nicer if it was done sooner, when it was still on your mind and you hadn't resigned to never getting the $20 back.
personally, i think they are leaning too much into new game modes. like i don't mind playing control over and over, but the reason i don't play pvp anymore is the incentive and focus to play pve has been much higher. i know that pvp will always be there when i'm finished with all the time sensitive pve stuff that i need to finish now. but by the time i finish it, im either tired of playing, or there's new pve stuff to go and do. imo, it's a hole they've dug themselves.
D2's state is because of management. Same thing recently came out about old 343 devs that wanted to do all kinds of Halo story arcs and ODST type content but were shut down. The only hope is for Bungie management to get the boot due to not making enough $$$ and have Sony take over. Hopefully, Sony will then give it into the devs hands and let them over deliver like the devs want to.
Surprised d2 hasn't done an extraction mode for gambit that requires orbital ordinance like what we had in halo reach. Still hope we get vehicles in pvp again.
had 1800 hours of actual in game time JUST on destiny 2, not counting D1. mid last year i bought cheats and carried ppl in PVE activities and through raids, never used them in pvp. anyway i got banned a couple weeks later and i wasn’t even pissed after spending hundreds of dollars on that account, not pissed at all, just relieved, haven’t played since and i don’t regret it at all
I can definitely see where you are coming from. Especially with newer games dining similar things a whole lot better. Like with Deep Rock Galactic (Rock and Stone) the devs are very supportive and communicate and when the community starts to ahbe a problem they go in and fix it.
I agree that it might not be a bad idea to try out some other games and if Desitny crashes and burns or finally have to jump ship, youll already have a point to jump to. And hey, you wont loose everyone. There will definitely be those that will leave, but you have some that will stay. Plus you wont be jumping into a void. There will already be a community in whatever game you pick that will start to notice and share your videos.
Either way, i can see what you are getting at. We are greatful for the chage we are getting but the rate and effort it takes to get that chage doesnt bode well for the survival of the game.
9:07 I respect this duel with the titan, I personally maybe couldn't hit this shot, gg
I know this is off-topic, but does someone know where does the sound/melody from the beginning of the video come from? I know it's from a game, and it's on the tip of my tongue, but i can't quite place it.
It’s the Original D1 Intro.
@@thunderchief7256 there it is Lol
Thanks!
@@voltus20its also a ps4 home menu screen and it has the music and everything
I feel it
Destiny-2 needs some daring moves to some big changes
9:47 every boss they have brought up , strikes, raids, dungeons included
I quit playing right before beyond light released in 2020 but I've been watching how the game has been progressing. Nothing seems to have really changed since I quit playing.
Fishing - imagine if you had to throw chum in the water that triggered the fish to jump out of the water and then with a strand based "harpoon" you shoot them with a tether that drags them to shore when shot out of the air as they fly (quickly) about (there's floaty fish like things in game). Far more interesting than using a rod, waiting for a prompt, click. yawn.
Same with sparrow racing BUT add ability weapons to the sparrows (freeze - slow the shoit sparrow, jolt - sends it uncontrollable, strand that sticks to the sparrow in front of you which speeds you up and catapults you ahead of them etc etc) and the obvious dog fights in your ship.... D3?
There is nothing wrong with feeling like things are being dragged out, because they are. Changes take time, not just development time, but also collecting the data proving that certain changes are worth the time investment and upheaval. It's fine to feel frustration at something you want to love.
I feel as though one game that has united all of my closest gaming buddies together has been Warframe. Nothing has showcased the lack of innovation, the disregard for narrative, and the insultingly predatory monetization of D2 than Warfame. Me and all of my friends hopped into WF's Whispers In The Wall update and were stunned by the amount of QOL changes we have been begging for being added, the wonderfully insane story being told, and the amount of varied content to catch up on. It was like night and day, and looking back at Destiny 2 has made me realize... What has Bungie done of substance in the past few years that wasn't done solely because they needed to keep the players placated until they forget their poor situation again?...
In my opinion, it’s a mix of both entitlement, and also reasonable concerns.
You are asking for a better game. That takes time. But more time has passed and the game is the same. You ask why isn’t the game better, the game then gets better. Are you then entitled to say that took to long. Yes. But it is bad to have a negative outlook after that. You can’t ask for a cookie and then ask what took so long when you get to cookie. I say we acknowledge that, yes it did take a long time, but we smile at the fact that we finally got our wishes. The only thing left to do is to never let it happen again. We let bungie sunset, but now we are regretting that fact. We have to treat it like sunsetting. The concept of never again.
I think it's a bit early to call the fate of Hell Divers 2. New games explode with popularity and then die off sharply.
3:54 "nailed down the looter shooter aspect".
I don't agree.
- Where is strike specific loot?
- Where can I loot the armor and weapons of my enemies?
- Where is the progression system?
- Where are unique master rewards for each dungeon besides the boring artifice armor with not even good stats and nothing else to it? (not talking about cosmetics)
- Where are the customizable sights on weapons?
- Where are any challenges for cosmetics besides a handful of them in 7 years?
Where are special flawless ornament and armor for trials like in d1?
Can we get something other than a fucking emblem for flawless dungeons?
I hope you read this because I'd like to know what you think about this. Maybe my definition of a looter shooter is wrong but idk. I just don't see it.
For context, I've been playing the game since Destiny 1 Taken King and have done pretty much everything in both games from PVE to PVP.
I agree with you here, it's a lot like Bungie's pattern they've been called out for with other additions like synthstrand, where they take ages to add something there's been lots of fan demand for, only to add a needlessly grindy and complicated/ expensive version of it, then a season or two later they trim the fat off that system and streamline it. It launches in a highly disagreeable state, so when Bungie adjusts it to not be quite so outrageous it gives the impression that "they're listening to the community!" even though the end result is still one of the worst transmog systems I've seen. Arguably how Stasis and Strand both launched broken to be tuned down later is another example. Crafting used to have a short list of dedicated materials that served no other purpose.
Even if the changes we get are all you've ever wanted, it's not ungrateful to be dissatisfied about the fact it took multiple years of mass fan outcry to see it happen. Especially when so much of it seemed to be spent screaming into an uncaring void with no signs of anything coming of it. "too little too late" is a saying for a reason and at times Destiny really feels like it's trying to get away with walking a path right up against the edge of that threshold. "Glad we got it, not pleased it took years" is a valid sentiment.
Was a Warframe guy before destiny. Now I feel like I've been hugged by light coming back to waframe
You nailed it. Every time they line up with what needs to be done, the things the community has been stressed over forever...they are so late getting to that point the community is already burnt out and it makes the improvements feel like a consolation prize rather than the developer working towards the community concerns.
Yeah it's like this interaction
Players: "Alright that's good now fix this other shit your ignoring."
Bungie:"Excuse me aren't you grateful I fixed this clearly glaring issue?"
P: "no because this has been a glaring issue for so long we stopped giving a shit when more glaring problems, that were worse appeared."
B: "wow I can't believe you have the nerve to get angry at us, we can do whatever we want because this is our game not yours."
The reason it takes so long to make changes to problems is that they don't feel a reason to act on something old when they can work on new, like why work on an old dungeon when you can start the development of a old dungeon. They address it now to help with the final shapes ease into the community so people don't have to complain about it, so people can focus on the good.
I’m grateful for Bungie adding a solo feature for ALL PvP… I like less space magic but I like the movement as well as the gun play. Variables can’t be balanced when the multiplayer network issues are suboptimal mostly, which is why they don’t talk about it. I dunno, I still play and I’ll play Marathon too
PVE: *we get something new-ish but semi recycled every season*
PVP: *we only get something new every few years*
Gambit: *wait, you guys get new stuff?*
welcome PVP players, your in our world now
You know Mesome, Bungie ALREADY abandoned Destiny, just not in the traditional way. They've sacrificed innovation and, at this point, years of man-hours just to sell another 20 dollar set of cosmetics.
Bungie has mismanaged and underdeveloped Destiny for years. Everyone who comments that they stopped playing Destiny always seem to say that the game had them wrapped up in FOMO to the point of it feeling like Stockholm syndrome in retrospect.
To you, it's only one raid. Only a few games of PvP or Gambit, hell, maybe there's something you want from the dungeon. Worst of all, let's say you're grinding lost sectors for exotics. (How many years did it take for them to implememt exotic focusing?)
To them, to anyone not wrapped up in destiny, it is months on end of the same stuff. It does not take you 5 seconds, 5 minutes, but potentially an hour to even get to a stage where you have a chance at the gun you want. Over and over, yet the terribly tried "kill ads, kill guy, get thing, shoot thing, boss damage" should make people realize what an exhaustive grind it is, and how there has not been much for innovation anywhere.
On top of all this, weapon reskins, lazy story writing, powercreep, it might all have been solved with major gameplay changes on LAUNCH, much less having dedicated and passionate teams introducing new and exciting things that weren't just a shiny new exotic year after year. PvP maps and the entirety of Gambit have had their time thrown away over the years to prioritize paid story content (emphasis on paid, as Bungie doesn't care much for anyone playing "free-to-play"), and don't even get me started with the time wasted surrounding "sunsetting." As for PvP, this point should drive even further home, as all the players have received nothing for their efforts until a collective speak up and say "Hey, maybe we could have just one map after years of running on fumes that would have left other games dead years ago."
Y'all are tenacious, I'll give you that, but it doesn't feel like destiny's playerbase even has the mental capacity to quit. I understand this functions as your way to make money, but let's focus on this massive playerbase for how much time they've collectively spent without realizing other games make content faster, with higher quality, and with more integrity.
I've played Borderlands 2 for years. Replayable story, mods being developed and released to this day, offline play, and a true co-op experience where you can farm dedicated loot from specific areas quickly and efficiently.
Basically a ton of plus points, from a direct side-by-side comparison.
Destiny 2 trumps my Borderlands hours by 3 times. 1800 > 600 hours. I couldn't ever realize the time I was spending in Destiny because it functions like Interstellar time dilation.
Warframe has been approaching 1200 hours for me, and the game is fully free to play. Expansions are slow but they're for a game that already has years of content. Just like destiny, it takes about 30 or 60 or even 100 hours to get good, but Warframe at least gets GOOD.
Genshin fucking Impact. I would call it a 100% better experience than Destiny 2 at this point. All their previous content is fully accessible, no sunsetting. The game is entirely free to play, no paywalls for campaigns, or dungeons, etcetra. The monetization is ARGUABLY LESS PREDATORY, because all you're gambling on is some funny pixels on the screen to attack with. You're not gambling for guns (funny pixels), for a better storyline, or for any new maps to be added in. You are forced to gamble your TIME if you play either game, but Genshin Impact WILL deliver new story, new characters, all of it being free to play.
I don't think it's ungrateful to want more out of the game. What I want you to realize is that you can get more out of other games. I've clicked off your build videos focusing on Strand because I cannot justify giving Bungie money. Let me say, however, I'll be much more supportive of literally any other game you cover at this point of Destiny's life.
I 100% agree. Destiny feels like it can be so much more but we just get half baked teases. Like imagine every season the big bad guy armour invades a planet and Gardians have to defend it Helldiver2 style? And we can carry out special Striker team style missions while figthing off the bad guy of the season army. As a comunity we have regain certain lost sectors before we can start even farming for the season exotics. And they make special loot similar to tears of sorrow.
Also I know they gave us alot of info on PVP, but why dont we have more regular game modes for casual play like simple TEAM Death matches. And on that note why don't bungie suppost and count atual assist players? we have so much things that can contribute to assist ( over shield, heals, radiant buffs) and exotics that do things to help with assist crest of alpha lupai, luminous and so on.
i straight enlisted in the Army and haven’t been on since
You’re not wrong; the Destiny pain points can spread and infect your whole outlook on life. The first week that I put down Destiny by choice, successively, (after previously averaging 14-hour GM and Raid Grinding Days seven days a week), the very first week I dropped it I got a girlfriend and my parents were commenting on how much happier I seemed; I was steadier and happier at my few shifts at work. Just get out of this hell we’re all in friends. Good luck, seriously.
At this point, I've stopped playing Destiny as much as I used to because of how repetitive things are (even with the encounter game, I thought of several encounters BUT the one you thought of), and I feel like it's stagnated. This TWID hasn't given me any drive to return either - especially with most of my playstyles being hit by it. I love the game, but I would prefer for some risks to be made.
You're not wrong, we all feel the same way even those that continue to stick around.
You're not wrong for asking why, as the games promised 10 years of bungie quality and during that time it was unsuccessful. "See that mountain, you can go there " being the first of bungies broken promises back in destiny 1 trailers. It's nigh impossible after Halo to follow up with a successor especially with how base d1 launched. It's been a rough time being a bungie fan, as I only gotten back into destiny's world at the Season of the lost, before witch queen and I thought it was maybe perhaps possible that bungie could pull this 10 year adventure off in such a grand fashion.
I may be rambling at this point so I'll just say this. You're not wrong for feeling as you have, coming from a person wanting more innovation from older franchises. (looking at you pokemon) At the end of the day you can't count on the companies to make the things that give you value, but for you to put value in yourself and the time you spend. Whether Destiny lives or dies isn't as important as what matters to you as a creator. I love your videos and content produced so even if you have to give up on Destiny in the future for your own betterment I'll still be there watching your stuff when I can.
I'll keep banging this drum, there is no way Bungie invested in this PvP overhaul if they planned on little or no content after TFS and the first 3 Episodes. Now if they get the numbers to continue is a different story
i gave up playing destiny in April last year, and looks like there's still the same sentiment. Bungie refusing to make the most basic of fixes or addition of much needed things, until a big creator makes a fuss or everyone makes a fuss about it, and still takes months even years to implement. obviously i'm not a game dev, its probably hard to change stuff, especially with people online bashing everything you do, but i wish they would just go and actually make changes and tweak it if turns out a garbage change, instead of taking months to announce that it'll be fixed next season. Swing and a miss. Maybe next time slugger.
I think all the changes are coming now because they no longer have any seasonal content to crutch. So all the resources that would normally be going to seasonal content, is going into fixing all of the existing content and fixing final shape. They've essentially course corrected. Frankly, the seasonal content isn't sustainable and never was
I totally agree with you. It took forever to get pvp updates. I honestly think that Sony is pissed about the delay and moved in to let them know if Final Shape doesn't do well, they are taking the reigns.
I think that deep down, bungie knows the best thing about the game is gun play. And the oldest bungie fans play their games for the great gun play. So they figure, let's make our original fans, who are heavy on pvp, happy and come back to purchase final shape. I think this is the reason and the strategy. Sony lit a match under them.
3:28 to skip the raid ad
there's this serious discussion about the state of the game and then:
"Defeated *Glizzy Gobbler*"
Anyone else catch the Hollow Knight Greenpath music towards the end? Loved it.
I believe the words Sony's leadership recently posted echo your sentiment. They posted criticism of Bungie leadership with regard to getting things done in a timely manner and properly managing their funds.
You are definitely not in The wrong. they need to patch the wound before it gets infected
I want the last city. I want to feel like my guardian has a reason to protect the city and the eliksni. We could have had tons of unique vendors and people like a marketplace in the last city, feeling like it was a city filled with culture and skilled tradespeople. Instead we have....Tess Everis
❤ Please read:
Mesome, I watch your content for you and what you bring to my screen.
I dont think D2 has anything worthy to give until Final Shape.
Try new games. I recommend starting with Deep Rock Galactic to decode the grind habits. Maybe Helldivers idk.
For single player, try Tunic. I feel it is right up your alley.
For PvP, try Halo Infinite, Splitgate, even Fortnite possibly. These are things i think both you and an audience would really enjoy seeing.
Even if you just make a change for the sake of novelty, it will still be you, and that is who I have faith in. ❤
They established what destiny was back in D1 and continued that identity all the way up until SK where they completely switched everything up with it being free, seasons and I think that was good for the time but it became too repetitive and brought in people from the mmo space, the rpg space and the Gaas space which are similar yet conflicting and I think bungies trying to filter the rights from the wrongs.
I think the point is that Destiny is a pve game, and they actually needed to create a pvp strike team, as they did, and this is working out now. Production takes time and testing
The problem with bungie a is their lack of innovation in honestly skeptical that marathon will even be much different that how destiny is right now
This game simply feels like it has zero direction and is simultaneously trying to appease every type of player with shallow activities. Every piece of armor, gun, sparrow, ship - whatever feels like bland or reskinned. Core activities are so dated and BEYOND over played because of previous quest requirements. The story consists of 15 minutes of gameplay for 2 minutes of talking, once a week for 8 weeks, then radio silence. Raids and dungeons always introduce the same "plate or glowy spot" mechanic, just with a slight twist to match the theme. boring mechanics with a long lead up to a short damage phase is the worst and not challenging. A large portion of the coolest looking items are locked behind a paywall, or require more grinding of the same exact activities everyone is tired of, just to save bright dust for when the item you want finally comes around. Cheaters are running rampant. Hunters, Titans and Warlocks don't really have well defined roles anymore, and I'd even say Warlocks feel lost and their gameplay loop doesnt match their identity anymore. This game just feels like a shell of the vision it once had... and I'm over it. I'll play The Final Shape just to finish the series out, then I'm done.
Your right, bungie has played it safe, mildly pleasing everyone in the short term but, long term? I think the journey is supposed to be the fun, but, if it’s a slog to get through to get a shiny new gun, then people will do something else for fun.