Is he respectful? My older brother feels very protective of my disabled self (We are both middle aged.), and I am here to tell you that someone who feels protective may be protecting their objectifying concept of a person at the expense of disrespecting that person.
@@Meds1000MDyes but posting doesn't mean much. That's not to say he doesn't care whatsoever, that's something only he and his brother would know, but just like certain christians will say "love the sinner, not the sin 🤍" as if they aren't making gayness into a sin comparable to murder and grape, posting doesn't exactly mean caring. Let's go with the disabled perspective, since the comment you're responding to used their own life experience as an example. His brother may just be a convenient display of "not hating gay people", much like how there's unfortunately a lot of news stories about children only sitting with disabled children so they can look good to other children. Someone who only defends "aggressively" because that perceived anger will make them more respectable to people, whether or not they actually feel the heat. More examples include certain straight women that parade around their "gay bff" because they're incapable of making friends with men in general and want to not look homophobic despite telling every queer woman she meets to not ogle her. Or vice versa, when certain gay men use femininity for their own benefit, then violently disrespect the (black) women/femmes they use as an identity.
That can be true but it's clear as he'll he is trying to benefit from Queen baiting E,g... His I'm coming out post and then After a few hours saying he is coming out with merch Which got people dragging him NLE Choppa has said he is straight Harry Styles straddled the line better
i think there is some truth to this making money off of queer folk that have skin in the game and not a bigger name however when it come to coming out especially in gang culture and seperatley black culture its hard to keep a certain image not to say it cant be done like you said we dont know. but for me i did joke alot about gay stuff alot before coming out so i mean i do see some signs @@foreignfridaysim pan / non binary
@foreignfridays Billie after coming out is a Studfisher. She came out and now she full on culturally appropriates black fashion and because she's now out as queer she feels as if she can dress like Soulja Boy in 06'. She's a yt girl from the suburbs trying to dress like a STUD.💀
This also reminds me of the whole "Gaylor" conspiracy where fans try to insist she's secretly a lesbian and claim to support her for that reason but then refuse to acknowledge actually out sapphic singers instead of some straight woman equating homophobia to people not liking her. I'm not saying you have to like any given sapphic artist or you can't pretend that Taylor's song is about a girl because that's more relatable or appealing to you, but you gotta stop treating her like she's the sapphics' savior instead of just a musician you like.
this is so obviously a fictional person you are talking about because actual real life gaylors i know and talk to are literally cairo, girl in red, fletcher, chappell roan fans and have been for YEARSSS now. you don't have to lie about people to critique them. like fletcher literally posted a gaylor lavendergate tiktok what are you on about
@@ChocolatexCherries3 Apparently we run in different circles, because I've seen Gaylors complain about there being no out sapphics in music multiple times.
I’m in multiple Gaylor and Gaylor-adjacent friend groups and we’re all queer people who listen to queer artists. Some of those friends are queer artists themselves. I curate an ‘if you like this Taylor song, try this song by an out queer artist’ playlist and get recommendations for artists to sample from these friends all the time. Is it possible the people you’re seeing are children? People are less likely to be aware of a broad range of musicians when very young.
But like not only are they ignoring sapphic artists, they actively dislike them. For some reason the venn diagram of "Gaylor" weirdos and Chappell Roan haters is just a circle.
As a queer woman my view is, the queer community is usually estimated to be about 10% of a population, it is a very small population that needs its norms represented by allies and the straight community. The more any aspect is accepted in any capacity, the less likely it is for that aspect to get someone killed. So regardless of whether they are secretly queer, doesn't matter. Normalizing queer culture saves lives and shouldn't be fought against by queer people, until it deals more damage than it prevents.
As long as they are doing it bc they actually care and are serious like truly genuine abt it then there is no real issue. But there’s no need to do it just to do it, or for very personal (selfish) reasons. Another thing is, it would be nice to see actual, honest, straight allies instead of maybe secretly queer (and then finally coming out) so more negative connotations don’t come up against the queer community.
@@atrution I agree! We have to fight to get it normalized because people are actively trying to bring us back to being outcasts and that’s not something anyone of us should want.
As an African gay man (who is really fem 💀 oop) I really appreciate the space you create for us! It’s kinda problematic to feel this way but because of my experiences, I always assigned black cis straight men to unsafeness and prejudice. So your content is highly refreshing!!! 🌟🌟🌟
this is a good point. that being said though, the people dragging yung thug were probably also a part of the population who dragged harry styles for his vogue cover; i think itd be more accurate to point out that the people who gassed up and defended harry styles from those people arent affording people like yung thug that same protection and support
@@turtle4llama We cherry pick who society allows to express themselves in a feminine manner. Lil Nas X is part of the community however he is Dark skinned and presents as tem with long hair and feminine wardrobe. NLE Choppa benefits from both being masculine presenting CisHet and also light skinned. He is at a cross section of privelesge and was able to maneuver differently in our community because of it
@@zaddyfaye6880the people who defended harry styles are people who either listen to him or know of him. Those people dont listen to young thug or theyve never heard of him. This is a disingenious argument no matter how you spin it. Young Thug is nowhere near as famous as harry styles. Also, have yall forgotten about Prince? He was the first black mega star to be androgyneous and people went to bat for him way back in the 80's. If Young Thug was as mainstream as Harry Styles, he would have gotten the same support. I also remember when Frank Ocean came out as bi 12 years ago and he got overwhelming public support from Jay Z and other big names. Blaming white people for black artists being afraid to come out or play with gender norms is some wild mental gymnastics. What these black artists fear its the reaction from our community. Thats the sad truth
I haven’t gotten thru much of the video, but u mentioning how can we even decide who is queer or not is a big question because even I’ve asked it myself when it comes to me and others. I am bi myself, but I’m still very uncomfortable with more intimate aspects on male and male stuff and at times makes me question my own sexuality. Tho, when it comes to determining others queerness, it’s hard because as an example, I’ve had a guy locally hit me up 2 separate times within a couple of years. He is known for using a trans person for his own pleasure. It’s hard for ppl to just come out and call him fake, but it’s almost needed. All this to say, it’s hard for us queer ppl to do this as yes it’s becoming more acceptable. But with that attention it seems more companies (not surprising) and ppl taking advantage of it for branding or personal reasons.
Everyone is queer. There are no rules to begin with, so we all are what our current system considers queer. I try not to think too much about labels, but I do know the need to use them in our current contexts and power imbalances in Western hegemony
@@OttoOctavius77!! I feel like even with sexuality ppl are always going to go with something more comfy and preferred if that makes sense😅 like yes I’m still bi (pan, whatever) but I just like this gender more and that doesn’t null me being bi (pan, etc) in anyway.
my opinion is if you wanna profit off queerness you better either claim queerness yourself or be such an unambiguous ally that you'd be condemned with us when tides turn. I don't like when people say it's "outing" to demand a celeb claim queerness to make money off it. like jameela jamil who's said sus stuff about trans people then cried she was outed when people questioned why she should be a judge on a queer show. why should you make money off a culture you're too scared or ignorant of to claim? cuz that's another thing, it's one thing to be lgbt+ and another to be queer. not all people of an oppressed group are with those people, especially white queers, they crave assimilation. like Pete buttigieg is lgbt+ and Laverne cox is queer.
can you explain some more what your difference between queer and lgbtq+ is. i looked up the persons you mentioned (didn't know them before this comment) and i still didn't get it.
@@blueobsession6544I’m gonna be honest idk who Peter is and maybe I should’ve looked it up like you but here’s my guess: Laverne is not just queer sexuality wise bc she’s trans and if I believe right likes men (I would say only, but I’m not too sure 😅). Peter might just be “queer” or lgbt+ sexuality wise and nothing else. Not like a certain type of identification and lived life like someone like Laverne Cox. Ig in a way seeing someone like Laverne queer through and through bc identity wise as well as sexuality (esp if they still date same gender even after transitioning) where as it’s just sexuality or preference with the other. Does that make enough sense?😅
Maybe I’m taking that sentence wrong but I don’t think an ally of any group should really be condemned with them. I mean ofc they are but, yea. When that happens tho, what’s more important is the reaction-how did they react? How fussy did they get and why? Does that make you rethink them as an ally? As a person? Things like that. There doesn’t need to be just queer allies, or allies claiming queer just bc esp when it all comes down to it bc..in ways that’s kinda how we got here. If you stand with and for something, genuinely stand with and for something-and when problems arise they’ll get figured out and solved hopefully. It’s important to note too, that learn what you gotta learn (don’t get tired either) unlearn what you have to unlearn, do what needs to be done to really have that actual respectful solid level of solidarity.
@@Boohurghhoothere is a queer culture. queer culture and current social norms (which are cisnormative and heteronormative) are inherently at odds. pete is not considered part of queer culture because he has assimilated with our current social norms, aside from being gay (hence lgbt but not queer). he can do so because he is a wealthy white politician. laverne is lgbt AND queer because her ideals and how she lives her life aligns with queer culture at large. even if she could assimilate she does not because it goes against who she is as a person. that is the difference. queerness is a way of life, a culture, and a lifestyle. lgbt is just a label on its own.
It's not even that because real gay4pay guys in films actually perform 100% penetrative acts with men. It's gaybaiting onlyfan models who lie and advertise themselves as such, but once you look them up they have no male-male content. He is like those.
gay4pay/straight4pay doesn't just apply to adult films tho, it also applies to strip clubs & webcamming, because historically strip clubs were gender segregated. In fact, older cinematography had genres based on casting strippers to do teases & such. I also want to mention those labels actually derive from how strip clubs catered to either heterosexual men or heterosexual women & it's why porn categories labeling as straight or gay assume a male audience. TLDR: your last (correction: clause) doesn't matter because there are forms of sex work that don't involve sexual contact & the labels still mattered because of gender segregation.
Justice for Lil Nas. Gays actually discarded him after embracing more effeminate fashions. Slipping out of the grasps of their sexual fantansies...ty for mentioning Cakes, Le1f and other artist...❤😂
What are you talking about? "Slipping out of the grasps of their sexual fantasies?" That's a lousy way to refer to gays. You don't need to have sexual fantasies to enjoy music. And nobody in my (gay) world ever expressed that about Lil Nas, nor have I any reason to think anyone in that community would care how he dresses - the more fabulous the better. What you are describing sounds more like some in straight circles as the clothes definitely bother some of them, though not because of sexual fantasies - that part makes no sense in either case.
@@Queen.Coborah Since this is an open discussion, there's no need for rudeness. I just don't find your claim credible and it sounds like a cheap shot at gays. I don't understand how you could possibly know the "why" even if the "act" were true. Do you have some evidence of any of that?
I think it’s more so he hasn’t released an album in 3 years 😅 lil nas kinda transitioned to an influencer who does features. The gays still think he’s hot lmaowtf
I honestly think and have thought he was bi for years, but I also believe in letting people live their lives how they wish. We just gotta stop making these things news worthy and we won’t have these issues.
Thanks for my first super thanks! And yeah that's kinda my conundrum cause even in hindsight, am I doing a "who's queerer?" Estimation to decide who gets what.
@@foreignfridays I don’t think it comes down to “who’s queerer” but who’s now desireable. Regardless of the acceptability of queerness there’s always a push to make it more desireable and less feminine/ more ambiguous. And Him being a light skin, masculine, hypersexual dude is something gay folks get off on so we are gonna think with our ducks and not with the culture.
I've really been enjoying these moments of you wrestling with complex ideas and have been inspired to ask myself better questions, without being attached to a specific outcome. This is good work
Conversations like this also reminds me somewhat of the backlash Becky Albertalli and writing Love Simon. In retrospect people say it was wrong to question her ability to write a story about Queer teens bc she was a “straight women” but when she later came out as Bi we realize how wrong that was. But I gotta ask. Q: Would that same backlash have still been warranted if she never came out? I think a major issue when it comes to these topics is bc “support” is capital now so members of marginalized communities feel uneasiness with the idea of recklessly giving support to people that may/can/will move out of or remove themselves from the marginalized communities they get support/social capital from.
If she never came out is one thing and that’s still tricky. But if there was never anything to come out abt bc she was straight-that’s another thing. Bc it plays into that very icky area of what starts and causes the uneasiness, esp to keep it thriving. What if she switches up? When will she switch up? It’s only a matter of time, right? How will she switch up..? Things like that are bound to arise with that. Nobody wants or respects someone playing in their face, esp if it was done in such a manner and for too long of a time.
I have have to say as a gay black man it is refreshing and heart warming to know that a straight black man has truly see us!! The fact that u said stateless froze me to the core because that’s how I have always felt. Also in most black spaces up till about 5 years ago. I know because I have a heteronormative demeanor that comes with a slight privilege but doesn’t change the fact that we can definitely feel “stateless”!!! Amazing insight brother am I thank u!!!💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾
It doesn't help that pride itself and queerness itself has become such a capitalist commodity. I respect solidarity more when it has a social price instead of a social reward...in which case it's nothing more than "thanks" and move on.
You hit the head on the Nail. You can still be homophobic or make homophobic ideals comfortable for those who are homophobic inspite of having good intentions. NLE is still very young and he may have good intentions but what turned me off about him is how he was fully dressed at Black Pride like even the thought of a man looking at him made him feel uncomfortable. I wish the LGBTQ Community would uplift our own instead of continuing to allow others to have a platform
"what turned me off about him is how he was fully dressed at Black Pride" As opposed to what? This is the most insane sentiment I've seen in a long while.
@@whoisexaberriwdym as opposed to what? Ntm nle usually is half naked either alr walking out or by a few songs in. No, he doesn’t necessarily have to show skin at pride but if he was truly *fully* dressed esp *the whole time* (and he’s usually not) all while basically playing ally/cool-it’s kinda odd. Why not just do your regular stuff, If you really went on positive vibes, no bs, no weird shit? They didn’t mention making homophobes or their homophobic ideals still nice and comfy for no reason..
@@Boohurghhoo If he doesn't want to be sexualized on stage by a gay audience that's fine. A lot of straight men don't want to be sexualized by gay men, that doesn't make them homophobic. I know plenty of gay men who also feel that way about women and no one calls them straightphobic. People shouldn't have to prost*tute themselves just to please their gay audience. If he was performing at a non-LGBTQ event no one would be complaining that he was wearing too much clothes. LGBTQ shouldn't be all about sex and sexual objectification. It's funny because had he been scantily clad you would then be saying he's queerbaiting. If gay people don't want to listen to his music because he didn't perform half naked then no one is forcing them to, it's as simple as that. The gay community are not owed and entitled to straight men's bodies or for straight men to do things they are uncomfortable with just because they buy their music.
@@Boohurghhoobro he can dress how he wants to dress stop acting weird. Not wanting gay men to stare at your body isn’t homophobic at all, same way some women don’t like showing skin at specific places because they don’t want men staring at their bodies
Honestly as a bi dude I just don’t care at that point. Rainbow capitalism has always been a thing and there’s no difference here. I agree a lot with the blackness allegory tho because there’s that idea of the thing itself not being perceived as desirable but appealing on someone who’s completely external to it so it gives them a bit of "coolness/exoticism" and you definitely see it with queerness or even just any marginalized group
I didn’t know who NLE Choppa was and I still loved this video, so great job to Foreign. Some thoughts I had: I find the concept of allyship annoying, and I think this video finally helped me articulate why. I think the concept of an “ally” focuses on a privileged group that benefits, and a marginalized group that is harmed. While I think this is conceptually accurate and a useful way to think of it, I think it’s an incomplete picture and sends the wrong message for how straight people should help queer people. White supremacist capitalist patriarchy (to steal a term from bell hooks) is a system that is psychologically harmful to everybody and materially harmful to most. Adhering to patriarchy (including homophobia, biphobia, and transphobia) alienates people from others and from themselves, cutting them off from ways they could make their personal lives, their environments, and their communities better for everybody, because they don’t consider doing things outside of the realm of what’s considered acceptable by patriarchy. So instead of there being completely cishet people who entirely benefit from patriarchy and need to become “allies,” I think we need everybody, cishet and queer, to realize how patriarchy has affected them, and to liberate themselves, and to work towards everyone’s liberation. The way that I know Foreign is actively doing this and NLE Choppa apparently is not is that Foreign is actively acknowledging and owning the harm he has done. He’s not putting on a good face and saying “look at me I’m a good person I love queer people so much,” he’s owning the harm he’s done, educating people that those things ARE harm, and in doing so is atoning for them. He talks about the personal benefits he gets from doing that, and that’s how it SHOULD feel, because it’s what the process of liberation looks like. Foreign also educates me, a White queer person living in a liberal U.S. suburb, about angles of White supremacist capitalism patriarchy that I don’t recognize in my daily life, and that helps me challenge those aspects of it more effectively. To me, there aren’t “allies” and “non-allies.” There are “people who are willing to recognize and acknowledge (a specific aspect of) White supremacist capitalist patriarchy and act with integrity based on that recognition,” and “people who deny that aspect and/or act without integrity.” We all fall into the latter category sometimes, but the people we should be platforming, and whose voices we should be uplifting, are people who show us how to recognize patriarchy and challenge it with integrity. Around the issue of “what about cishet people having the loudest voices and the biggest platforms around queer issues?,” to me one of the biggest ways patriarchy harms cishet people is by denying them the beautiful knowledge, art, and perspectives that you get by really listening to and embracing what queer people have to say. So a cishet person who is really active in liberating themself will recognize that, and will want that for other people, and will work to uplift queer voices. They’ll want OTHER cishet people to have that experience of really listening to queer experience. They won’t want to be the loudest voice in the room on the issue, because they know that being that makes them fall back into those patriarchal thought patterns. All of this is true even if you ARE queer; people with straight-passing privilege (of which I am one) miss out on so much connection and so many beautiful stories of and by people who have never had that privilege. So to me, I see genuine support for queer people (or any marginalized group) as being about authentic solidarity, which includes accountability, uplifting others’ voices, and helping to educate and liberate others where you can. I like the phrase “allyship is a verb” (even though I dislike the term “ally”), because it clarifies that there aren’t “allies” or “non-allies.” We all fail to challenge White supremacist capitalist patriarchy in times where we could. I think we all challenge it at least SOME times, even if only in small ways to ourselves (and yes, this includes people who don’t believe White supremacy or patriarchy are a thing). All we can do is do our best and try to structure the environments we’re in to try to make it easier for others to challenge it as well.
Yes, I am reading all of that. And I'm glad I did, because you've added a perspective on allyship that I don't think I've understood before. But also, I'm of the same boat where I want to live in a world where, even as a really surface level example that doesn't delve quite as deep as your comment, a lesbian can range from looking like a lumberjack to a princess in a fairytale to your average woman in pants. I really hate this "reverse homophobia" where some gay people get so irrationally angry at straight/cishet people for not dressing the way expected of their gender and sexuality in tandem. And not in the sense of, "wow the fact this straight guy can paint his nails and get endlessly complimented for it meanwhile I will literally be annihilated by my family if I so much as look at a 'feminine' color", which is an actual problem and incredibly upsetting, but in the sense of "this man dressing as freely as I and many others have said people should makes me upset, and freedom of gender expression should only be limited to queer people". Hopefully this makes sense and I'm not just shoving my own thought where it doesn't belong. I like the idea of both queer and straight people just having fun, doing drag or idk racing cars or something together. There really isn't much to be gained by limiting that personal freedom just to queer people, because how are straight, cis, and allo people meant to be good allies if we dont give them the chance to see how beautiful it is to be queer? Again, not when it comes to people appropriating and straight up stealing from gay culture only to water it down and make it into a dead horse of a joke, but for those that actually care. I want cishet people to care. I want them to be free to gender expression. Give them a new perspective, and let them see how they too, even if less so through material (and somewhat equally mentally) means, are subjugated to white supremacist capitalistic patriarchy. It really does suck the life out of all of us.
There are a lot of queer rapper/hip-hop artists who aren't pandering like this. I can even name some. Megan Thee Stallion Cardi B Flyana Boss Frank Ocean Steve Lacey Lil Nas X Logic Queen Latifah Tyler The Creator Purple Haze Janelle Monae Ashnikko Big Fredia
You do something that is rare these days -- you challenge me to think, particularly down avenues I've never traveled before. If I don't grasp something the first time around, it's probably going to be very interesting when I do get it. You spend time on the discussion and you really seem to care about getting the points across. Add to that you are very easy on the eyes and you are the complete package, lol. Seriously, I'm subbing, and look forward to learning more. This channel will grow.
Touched on a lot of key differences between the black v. queer approach to appropriation, gatekeeping, allyship, etc. that aren't discussed enough. Because I think there's a lot both could learn from eachother, but other ways in which the approaches have to be different because of the ways our identities manifest. Like beyond the fact that anyone could be closeted, we're also born to mostly cishet families around mostly cishet people, naturally decentralized. We're embedded everywhere and always will be, which makes isolationism much less of an option. That said, I would love for queer people to take many pages from the black community on cultural ownership - the fact that most "gay icons" in music are not gay for example has always seemed beyond the pale. Imagine most "black icons" in music not being black, just silly.
Can you please do a video on Morrissey. His racism, unwillingness to come out, his love of fascism. I, too love the Smiths and Morrissey music while hating Morrissey for being a horrible person. I personally believe that Morrissey's success at a young age and being loved for his art has caused him to never really being held accountable for his racism which was apparent in 1986, where he said only Black artists could get radio play and White artist were excluded from the radio. He also said he saw no merit in Black music citing Stevie Wonder and Diana Ross as examples. Examine Morrissey and drag him for filth, please.
counter argument - he is charismatic and hot, so it's alright. Like, that's why the hype started in queer spaces. He is, and i'm saying this very respectfully, like that straight stripper in the gay cub that's playful and fun. This is not a new archetype, and he isn't taking queer spots because he is not selling queerness.
I feel somewhat less upset that this guy (or anyone) is trying to make money on presenting as queer--whether he is or not--than that we live in a system that makes it possible: the capitalism, the celebrity-worship, and the fact that someone doing the bare minimum of being a decent person in standing up for marginalized people should be extoled and celebrated.
You can be upset at both-or in this case all and everything involved. If he’s not queer he shouldn’t feel the need and have enough brain to not present as queer. And, id he truly supports and is cool he can still do that without the extra theatrics. But also, tft he can even do this tbw and get praised for the bare minimum -paid even.
The issue is straight black men are being used to promote this and it's not seen with other races. TV shows and movies are almost completely removing straight black men. More so black people do not hold a high share of TV productions and so the narrative is being written by non black people.
From Diane Ross, to Beyonce to NLE what do they have in common, gay fans. Straight artist have learned to reach out to the LGBT community because when the gays love an artist, you can do no wrong, say something bad about Beyonce and watch a whole swarm of beehive people coming for the kill.
Nicki Minaj. The most prominent example I can think of. It doesn't matter if you're talking about her or her creep ass husband (ex?) or anything awful she's said and done, as long as she's an "icon" to white gays she's immune. Same goes for Taylor Swift, though with her it feels more centered around capitalism and her high-key environmentally destructive behavior. With Nicki it's more about the people she chooses to be around. And honestly, even for artists that seem relatively peaceful like Hozier, it really intimidates me. And it shouldn't! It should be more than fine to acknowledge and welcome your queer audience, to show them you acknowledge them as your fans and dance on stage with a rainbow flag as the easiest way to be an 'ally' (not that we accept performative activism here), but unfortunately the gay fanbase has just turned into capital. We/they are just another means of making more money, and even outside of capitalism, it just makes stan culture even worse!! Whether or not the artist is a poc, someone who's messed up a human amount of times, or someone who's actually a really good person, that stan culture is honestly dangerous and harmful. For the singer, the fans, the people outside of those circles, everybody. Stan culture may be funny through memes, but it's very clearly a problem.
The difference is Diana Ross and Beyoncé didn’t reach across the aisle. They were naturally integrated and welcomed into the lgbt community. Their music was already enjoyed and praised by the gay community. It would make sense that they would intentionally create music aimed at a community that is already accepting and cheering for them loudly.
In my opinion, it doesn't matter if he's gay or not. Because being gay doesn't give him a pass. What matters more is what he does. Using his platform to promote intersectionality is important, of course. But if that profit is going towards furthering a business that does harm, then it's just an example of a venture capitalist co-opting the aesthetic of queerness. That's the danger of treating respectability/assimilation as an end goal: real liberation is pushed to the wayside. Like the HRC. They had protesters against them earlier this year for their partnership with Northrop-Grumman, a weapons manufacturer affiliated with Israel. The HRC is an example of how gays will co-opt "queerness" to defend violence and oppression.
As a as a member of the community that you're trying to understand as an ally. I am honored to have someone who is willing to go on that journey and is willing to admit to pass mistakes and willing to do better going forward. Bottom line: I'm honored, flattered, to offer friendship and education, and I think you raise some valid points in your video essay!
9:15 It would seem that the modern formula for stardom as a queer artist is to not outwardly present until you're established. Like once they've gotten there its like "okay you've slipped through my gaydar, you can stay".
🗣️Hell I never heard of ‘Cakes Da Killer’ I just purchased a few of his tracks on iTunes!! I’m a homosexual black male and I never seen you post anything negative about the LGBTQ+ community. I feel bad I subscribed to your channel, it might have been a part of your change journey HOPEFULLY.🤔
He has told the internet that he's straight... he made a video b4 the event where he emphatically expressed his views and his standing as an Ally to the gay community. Gay people have partied to straight male artists throughout our history.
My opinion on some of this (white queer here): While we shouldn’t gatekeep queerness, I also think there’s a difference between being queer and being queer representation. There are so many varied ways to be queer, including not being out. But I believe queer representation in media requires some aspect of visible queerness. If someone isn’t out, they aren’t queer representation in media. That doesn’t mean they’re not queer though. But I also don’t think the issue is straight folk who start to push on gender norms. That’s great and I love it! But our media begins to treat that as the representation. As you noted NLE Choppa gets more attention that actual queer artists. Harry Styles is another good example. He gets credit for queering gender norms when queer folk have been doing the same for generations and have been kicked to the curb. But he’s not the actual problem (unless he’s actually doing it just for money but how would we know). One complicated aspect is history. There was a time when it was very unsafe to be an out public figure. So allies had to be the queer figures. It’s still not always safe, but safer than it was. I also believe that the queerness that capitalism likes is adjacent to the norm. Do we like men painting their nails? Yes! If they are fit enough or muscular. Or if they are straight. Or if they provide enough masculinity otherwise. (Insider secret also: a majority of gay men worship masculinity. There’s an aspect of internalized homophobia there.) And you may be aware of a lot of this in your research. (I tend to not talk about rainbow capitalism because I believe capitalism is going to capitalism. If it thinks you will make money, it will use you. I think a mid-level of queerness is still not profitable. We don’t want an artist to insult folks with AIDS, but we’re still not willing to pay attention to an artist who actually has AIDS in the mainstream.) Sorry. Just lots of rambling thoughts.
Didnt we already say coming out is a hard thing where we shouldnt push anyone into it? Especially because some people are uncomfortable with labels, sexuality isnt like being a certain race and stuff, its such a personal thing and it makes sense if he wants to keep it private and wants to have that benefit of the doubt, like tyler the creator, before he came out he was dropping hints and the homophobes were in denial bc he didnt say it straight up, so he wasnt getting harrassed by homophobes.
Isaiah Rashad STILL gets comments on ig about people deleting all his music off their phones after he was forced out of the closet. I saw one girl say she was “a gay ally” but that she isn’t a fan anymore?? Lol
@desboogey I mean it's true though. I just don't really listen to rap music that much. I don't really care for it. I like some of it, mostly older stuff, but overall I tend to listen to rock and metal and bluegrass the most.
Thanks - 58yo, learning and leaning towards ENBY - presenting femme, not part of the community as live a"normal" white, working class life. Living this life is hard, but my Trans-femme colleague, she got itproperhard. You help me understand, thank you x
I don’t think we can or should gatekeep queerness. And I don’t think the issue is whether he is genuine or possibly queer. I just get disappointed when queer people are faster to champion the same actions from straight (or seemingly straight) people than they will their own (especially if they’re men). Sure, his actions are great. But I’m always gonna cheer louder and support harder for queer people.
I very much agree that you can't be too harsh with people for dipping their toes in queer aesthetics because you don't know who is LGBT by looking at them. We are harsh with homophobes regardless of whether they're closeted because it doesn't matter, they're homophobic. We aren't harsh with Harry Styles wearing a dress because that challenges heteronormativity regardless of his sexuality. As long as you aren't queerbaiting, we're open for pretty much anyone. You don't have to be queer to liberate yourself from heteronormativity, you can be straight and still pick up things we popularize. The thing where you're wrong is the cookout: allies are invited to Pride, especially in places where there's too few of us and we need your help for safety in numbers. You should not feel bad about not being part of the group, it's okay to be cis, straight and romantically monogamous. There's a history of biphobia that still makes some gay and lesbian people exclusionary in all spaces, but most of us understand that this is bad practice that mainly hurts other queer people. As such, the only spaces you shouldn't feel welcome are the ones we use for dating and hookups. If you go there, you should know what you want and that you find it there. Everywhere else, being exclusionary is a red flag. If you're quick to justify why someone doesn't belong, you will always hurt queer people.
9:50 the fact i knew exactly who they were talkin about 😂 (castro is a popular bi p*rn star ) since were hyping up queer artist my favorite is adrianxpression their a youtuber who makes commentary vids and has a wide discography one of my favorite songs of theirs is butch queens, strict top, nightmare , walk witta switch, drag ban . Their producer is ocean kelly they have a couple songs together their chemistry on the track is amazing another queer artist with amazing music they both make a mix of house ,hiphop and vouge you have to listen to them
Being involved in french/swiss far left politics, i didn’t know FLE. But with the rise of homonationalism and more and more gay/lesbian people being racist,i think we should embrace solidarity with other communities and their main causes instead of being gatekeepers.
I say it a lot but if people stop trying to assume things, they'd be wrong less often. There are a lot of things that are just not our business and not important in regards to how you treat people with respect and dignity.
I wanna “correct” you over those last lines. It *shouldnt* be as important but with the way of the world, over time, we see each day *EXACTLY* how important ppl make it out to be bc of categories, sub categories, etc.
@@Boohurghhoo Notably, they said "in regards to how you treat people with respect and dignity." It's not a statement about what is or isn't important period, but a statement about how it should be detached from the baseline level of decency one shows to another.
Found that what works for me is assuming "neutrality" So I assume everyone is bi, until told otherwise Assume everyone is nb, until told otherwise Assume everyone is a decent human being with faults .... I do this not only cos some of it is true, but also to "fight" the bit of me that makes the "white, cishet, western man" assumption based on all the media I grew up on
really great convo, as someone who's only been (somewhat) openly queer for a short period of time it's super helpful to get to listen to this sort of stuff. you and this channel's community are so good :)
I feel like it's become super difficult to judge people's intentions based on their past actions because yes, they did all this so maybe their new image is a lie, but also maybe they just changed and grew as a person. Are we denying people the ability to grow and change? Or are we just calling out BS and people's inconsistencies? Most people under 35 grew up with all of the traces of their dumb youth and stuggles with identity logged online for the rest of their existance, are we expecting teens to already have shit figured out enough to not get dragged about dumb takes they had 15 years later? Or are we just calling out horrific people for their horrific actions? I find it very difficult to tell honestly and I struggle with navigating that, not just in terms of queer allyship but really with any type of allyship.
Hes not gay, however I think this alliance with the gay community is when he was attacked online for whearing nail polish and other questionable things that straight men dont wear I think that was the catalyst for him to embrace the gay community. It just so happened he cashed out in the process of being defiant against the people talking about his sexuality. The gay community knows hes not gay some even is online praising his support of the community. As for him overshadowing other gay artists that's not his fault it's the media fault for suppressing them simply because they are gay artist NLE is mainstream so ofcourse hes a household name and everyone knows him even if they don't listen to his music.
So I don't believe that IRL people can queerbait. That being said, I've never met someone who defends a Harry Styles "maybe, maybe not" type who has ever defended my OUT out queer friends, my wife, me, etc. from the IRL harrassment we've experienced. They also don't keep that same energy for Dua Saleh, Lauren Auder, Towa Bird, and the like. Having to talk with folks defending Eddy Redmane who couldn't even name two trans actors. So my sticking point for this whole dialogue is, when push comes to shove will they be there? When they get called out for perpetuating harmful stereotypes and talking points will they dig in and do the work to learn? Instead of the question of "Are they really queer?" The bigger question is "Will they put themselves at risk (finanical, physical, mental, spiritual, hell even forgoing minor enjoyment) to support queer folks?" Cause someone saying they'll be there for you and ditching sucks more than someone saying they'll never be there for you and following through on that.
Lol I'm seeing how they all turned their backs on Lil Nas X who's very gay but embrace NLE with open arms...he could be curious fr..but he could very well be pandering to us and has the industry and label machine pushing it onto us...but we ourselves 🌈are hypocritical too
If he’s coming out Fr, we would love to have him…but I feel like if he was he wouldn’t be so “shady” about it. Like why so much buildup? Definitely seems like some target rainbow socks shit 😂 Or he’s coming out slowly to test the waters with his largely masculine fanbase because his creative autonomy is somewhat limited in that regard
I wish navigating allyship was easier. It seems like all of the lessons you discover while becoming an ally sort of have to be kept hidden so that we can keep focus on the marginalized groups we're trying to ally with instead of it being about us. As much as that makes sense and it's not supposed to be easy in the slightest, it makes it feel a bit like a lonely journey without much certainty of where you're at and what ways you're able to engage.
The thing is, be gay If you present in queer or gender-norm breaking way, it normalizes it and thus can change people's opinion on the matter it's extremely important to broaden the acceptance of people's acceptance towards even cis straight people just doing queer things so that queer folk doing that is also just normal Like I believe nobody is at either end of a spectrum like neither all fem all masc it's a net of incredibly complex relations between society, you, queer folk and the engraved norms of the aforementioned society
It shouldn’t be hard. Just do u and be a good person and support marginalized groups. “Ally” discourse is frankly exhausting and nitpicky it just feels like a lot of online ppl who like drama, infighting, purity, etc. Remember that most people irl don’t even care about these issues or are outright hostile to them. If u care and ur learning then that’s a very good thing. Be open to critique but recognize that some of this nuance is so niche and has no relevance to real material political action.
as a queer person, theres no such thing as a real human being queerbaiting. nle choppa is just living his damn life and if he wants to express himself like that thats him. where it becomes a problem is if he acts like prince and makes all his money off our aesthetics and then disrespects queer people and our autonomy. but there is no such thing as a queerbaiting individual. nle choppa is not queerbaiting. harry styles is not queerbaiting. billie eilish did not queerbait.
Because men lie about their sexuality and fake entire relationships with women and sometimes kill them when they get exposed. Shame can cause extreme violence. Just because you're on your gay journey, that doesn't excuse the deceptions, lies and harm that is often associated with it.
I don't have a stake in this particular topic, but I must confess, I checked your subscriber count twice, thinking I missed a zero. In other words, the quality of your arguments far exceeds 26k and deserves at least 260k. This troubles me as well: while observing the world go through a digital revolution, I’ve noticed, regretfully, that real thinking is becoming optional, often limited to the proverbial 256 characters- which isn't thinking at all. You, on the other hand, make people think deeper. Great job, keep it up and continue to grow preferably exponentially...
My journey was homophobic stuff, to hardcore ally, to I'm bi and i kinda knew the whole time. The past is real, but so is the present. Your end my be different, but we can and will change as people.
This reminds me of the time that the Backstreet Boys served as grand marshals at SF Pride. My friends were working the parade route as escorts that year. They said AJ was cool and supportive, but otherwise the band mostly seemed a bit uncomfortable and bewildered as to why they were there. I can understand them being in a show at the end of the parade route since they have plenty of gay fans, but SF is not lacking for activists who are a part of the QUILTBAG+ community who might have been more appropriate grand marshals. It made me wonder: who lost a chance at being a GM so a bunch of straight guys could be front and center at this high-profile gay event?
In all honesty, i think it's kinda both. It definitely feels like, at least to me who has no social media (not a brag, I'm just terminally lazy) and barely knows anything about the man, that he could be gay or bi, and engaging in rainbow capitalism at the same time. Like he realized his identity was something he could profit from, and decided to do so. What I can't say, however, is whether he has good intentions and bad execution, or bad intentions and somehow a good enough execution. Or if it's bad all around. I really love your videos man, they help me to think...which in all honesty doesn't say a lot since any video can leave me pausing at any time thinking for half an hour before realizing I've gone off into several tangents barely related to whatever it was I was actually thinking about. But in a more in depth way, about things I was lowkey afraid to ponder, since I tend to hyperfocus on clear and concise results instead of things i have to slowly process and develop. It's a worthy mental exercise, and more than an exercise, it's a good line of questioning. So many viewpoints I'm seeing in the comments, and i love that.
I'm not as critical of NLE Choppa because we still have rappers like Young Joc who refuse to perform to a gay audience due to homophobia despite him desperately needing the oppurtunity.
I feel like people are minimising the public’s role in this whole saga LOL none of this would be happening if ppl didn’t try and make him gay on social media and play detective about his sexuality. Now he’s using it as a marketing tool and I honestly can’t even be mad at that as a queer person myself. Everyone involved in this should just give themselves a round of applause 🤣
Sexuality is fluid & on a spectrum, we as society have convinced and chained ourselves to this rigid thinking that you're either this or that, and nothing in between. Once you break free from those chains, you'll be able to fully experience life freely and embrace exploring yourself, your femininity, your masculinity, and your sexuality.
I understand the inclination to focus on his intentions. I don't think it's possible to know for sure with anyone. I try to focus more on outcomes in situations like this. If him speaking out points some shitty middle schooler out there in the non-homophobic direction or encourages other rappers to speak out against violence towards queer people, I think that's worth the risk. I'm interested to see if he platforms queer artists going forward. And if he continues advocating when he's not getting views for it. I'm just one queer, so teensiest salt grain, etc etc. There's always time to change my mind if it turns out he's causing more harm than good. For now though, it warms my heart. Popular rappers were not speaking like that when I was growing up.
Whether he is queer or not doesn't really matter. If he is going to be engaging within the queer community he should be able to speak up and defend queer rights, go to protests, and uplift queer artists with his large platform
2:51 he isn't the first and won't be the last. Gay for pay is real. This is a demographic that spends money and money is money. The majority of the gay will permit a straight, masculine, good-looking guy to enter the culture to perform, etc. for the community.
part of the hard thing here that I think trips folks up about this is that most folks kinda want to treat queerness almost like it's an ethnicity that you are born into and like, whilst there are specifically gay people and trans people and lesbians and aesexuals and bisexuals etc etc people with specific identities that hold a lot of history and culture within themselves, queerness itself really isn't that at all. Like, at a fundamental level it's not just about lgbtqia people but is also about everyone having the freedom to step away from the norm and away from the expectations that have been put on them and that ONLY works if we leave that door open to everyone, including cis straight people that we do NOT like. like, personal example, there are other trans people out there who I really wish I didn't have to share my identity with cause of some of the shit they have done, said or perpetrated, and sometimes some little dark part of me will want to say 'they can't be trans' but i don't listen to it cause at the end of the day, if leaving the door open for them means also leaving it open for the millions of kids and adults out there who might never be able to find their way through it otherwise, I'm gonna grit my effing teeth and bare it like...the fact that we all have to find our queerness and aren't just born knowing it just alters the situation with gatekeeping completely so like, whilst I am board with seeing white folks like myself kept right the heck out of spaces, we just cannot do that with queerness, cause trying to curate queerness just straight up undermines it yeah that does leave us open to infiltration and I hate that, but I prefer it to the alternative. that's just one of the unique problems we have to deal with here
The rebranding issue also exists in music, both secular and Christian. For example, Kanye West rebranded and got access to millions of Christian $$$, overshadowing talented musicians who are actually living the Christian lifestyle.
😀What a great discussion! You are 💯 correct about the black LGBT community! It's as far away from belonging to any earthly community! Which is why I barge💪🏾 my way into the reluctant black community as I am aware of who my real enemy is, those who hate the very quality I cherish and will die for.... My BLACKNESS! 💯 I wish more of our people thought like you, you have the mentality and manifest the reality of the once fabeled ally! we are more powerful when we have ALL our parts💯🖤
Just because someone isn’t prejudice against lgbt people doesn’t make them one of them. People don’t have to hate people or avoid people just people make you feel you should.
His little brother is gay 🌈 and hes very protective of his little brother
Is he respectful? My older brother feels very protective of my disabled self (We are both middle aged.), and I am here to tell you that someone who feels protective may be protecting their objectifying concept of a person at the expense of disrespecting that person.
@Robstafarian ummm personal issues he post his brother often
Exactly!!! I just commented this!
@@Meds1000MDyes but posting doesn't mean much. That's not to say he doesn't care whatsoever, that's something only he and his brother would know, but just like certain christians will say "love the sinner, not the sin 🤍" as if they aren't making gayness into a sin comparable to murder and grape, posting doesn't exactly mean caring.
Let's go with the disabled perspective, since the comment you're responding to used their own life experience as an example. His brother may just be a convenient display of "not hating gay people", much like how there's unfortunately a lot of news stories about children only sitting with disabled children so they can look good to other children. Someone who only defends "aggressively" because that perceived anger will make them more respectable to people, whether or not they actually feel the heat. More examples include certain straight women that parade around their "gay bff" because they're incapable of making friends with men in general and want to not look homophobic despite telling every queer woman she meets to not ogle her. Or vice versa, when certain gay men use femininity for their own benefit, then violently disrespect the (black) women/femmes they use as an identity.
That can be true but it's clear as he'll he is trying to benefit from Queen baiting
E,g...
His I'm coming out post and then
After a few hours saying he is coming out with merch
Which got people dragging him
NLE Choppa has said he is straight
Harry Styles straddled the line better
NLE Choppa is not simply queerbaiting, he's queerteasing
Yeah at least Billie truly came out soon thereafter her queer tease
i think there is some truth to this making money off of queer folk that have skin in the game and not a bigger name
however when it come to coming out especially in gang culture and seperatley black culture its hard to keep a certain image not to say it cant be done like you said we dont know.
but for me i did joke alot about gay stuff alot before coming out so i mean i do see some signs @@foreignfridaysim pan / non binary
@foreignfridays Billie after coming out is a Studfisher. She came out and now she full on culturally appropriates black fashion and because she's now out as queer she feels as if she can dress like Soulja Boy in 06'. She's a yt girl from the suburbs trying to dress like a STUD.💀
@@foreignfridaysdoesn't help that she uses a blaccent...😭
@@NayTotalKnockout and the whole wi..er aesthetic is odd on her right now
This also reminds me of the whole "Gaylor" conspiracy where fans try to insist she's secretly a lesbian and claim to support her for that reason but then refuse to acknowledge actually out sapphic singers instead of some straight woman equating homophobia to people not liking her. I'm not saying you have to like any given sapphic artist or you can't pretend that Taylor's song is about a girl because that's more relatable or appealing to you, but you gotta stop treating her like she's the sapphics' savior instead of just a musician you like.
this is so obviously a fictional person you are talking about because actual real life gaylors i know and talk to are literally cairo, girl in red, fletcher, chappell roan fans and have been for YEARSSS now. you don't have to lie about people to critique them. like fletcher literally posted a gaylor lavendergate tiktok what are you on about
@@ChocolatexCherries3 Apparently we run in different circles, because I've seen Gaylors complain about there being no out sapphics in music multiple times.
@@ChocolatexCherries3Gaylors I know certainly weren’t like this at all. They were like OP said they were lol
I’m in multiple Gaylor and Gaylor-adjacent friend groups and we’re all queer people who listen to queer artists. Some of those friends are queer artists themselves. I curate an ‘if you like this Taylor song, try this song by an out queer artist’ playlist and get recommendations for artists to sample from these friends all the time.
Is it possible the people you’re seeing are children? People are less likely to be aware of a broad range of musicians when very young.
But like not only are they ignoring sapphic artists, they actively dislike them. For some reason the venn diagram of "Gaylor" weirdos and Chappell Roan haters is just a circle.
As a queer woman my view is, the queer community is usually estimated to be about 10% of a population, it is a very small population that needs its norms represented by allies and the straight community. The more any aspect is accepted in any capacity, the less likely it is for that aspect to get someone killed.
So regardless of whether they are secretly queer, doesn't matter. Normalizing queer culture saves lives and shouldn't be fought against by queer people, until it deals more damage than it prevents.
As a gay, black man, I agree.
As long as they are doing it bc they actually care and are serious like truly genuine abt it then there is no real issue. But there’s no need to do it just to do it, or for very personal (selfish) reasons. Another thing is, it would be nice to see actual, honest, straight allies instead of maybe secretly queer (and then finally coming out) so more negative connotations don’t come up against the queer community.
Especially in rap which is still very hostile to LGBTQ people.
Definitely not 10
@@atrution I agree! We have to fight to get it normalized because people are actively trying to bring us back to being outcasts and that’s not something anyone of us should want.
As an African gay man (who is really fem 💀 oop) I really appreciate the space you create for us! It’s kinda problematic to feel this way but because of my experiences, I always assigned black cis straight men to unsafeness and prejudice. So your content is highly refreshing!!! 🌟🌟🌟
i'm trying to chill with saying "No Homo" myself.. i had to think to myself do gay people say "No Hetero"
Whenever someone says “pause” I counter with “nah we fast forwarding around here”.
Sometimes I say "no romo" to make sure dudes don't think showing interest in them means I'm tryin to get with em
actually yes lol
@@Deemo202lmao I do that with my brother I say nah keep going 😂
@@cherrieslvt i always thought that would be hilarious.. lol
To be fair, the people flaming Yung Thug aren't the same people bigging up Harry Styles.
this is a good point. that being said though, the people dragging yung thug were probably also a part of the population who dragged harry styles for his vogue cover; i think itd be more accurate to point out that the people who gassed up and defended harry styles from those people arent affording people like yung thug that same protection and support
@@turtle4llama We cherry pick who society allows to express themselves in a feminine manner. Lil Nas X is part of the community however he is Dark skinned and presents as tem with long hair and feminine wardrobe. NLE Choppa benefits from both being masculine presenting CisHet and also light skinned. He is at a cross section of privelesge and was able to maneuver differently in our community because of it
@@zaddyfaye6880the people who defended harry styles are people who either listen to him or know of him. Those people dont listen to young thug or theyve never heard of him. This is a disingenious argument no matter how you spin it. Young Thug is nowhere near as famous as harry styles. Also, have yall forgotten about Prince? He was the first black mega star to be androgyneous and people went to bat for him way back in the 80's. If Young Thug was as mainstream as Harry Styles, he would have gotten the same support. I also remember when Frank Ocean came out as bi 12 years ago and he got overwhelming public support from Jay Z and other big names. Blaming white people for black artists being afraid to come out or play with gender norms is some wild mental gymnastics. What these black artists fear its the reaction from our community. Thats the sad truth
Because hip hop unfortunately is homophobic. Pop isn’t.
I haven’t gotten thru much of the video, but u mentioning how can we even decide who is queer or not is a big question because even I’ve asked it myself when it comes to me and others. I am bi myself, but I’m still very uncomfortable with more intimate aspects on male and male stuff and at times makes me question my own sexuality. Tho, when it comes to determining others queerness, it’s hard because as an example, I’ve had a guy locally hit me up 2 separate times within a couple of years. He is known for using a trans person for his own pleasure. It’s hard for ppl to just come out and call him fake, but it’s almost needed. All this to say, it’s hard for us queer ppl to do this as yes it’s becoming more acceptable. But with that attention it seems more companies (not surprising) and ppl taking advantage of it for branding or personal reasons.
I guess that's why I see sexuality as a grander spectrum. Like it's too complicated to limit myself to some specific labels.
Everyone is queer. There are no rules to begin with, so we all are what our current system considers queer.
I try not to think too much about labels, but I do know the need to use them in our current contexts and power imbalances in Western hegemony
I am bi but I have a preference for women. It's mostly because I just don't really have a good experience with other guys tbh.
@@OttoOctavius77!! I feel like even with sexuality ppl are always going to go with something more comfy and preferred if that makes sense😅 like yes I’m still bi (pan, whatever) but I just like this gender more and that doesn’t null me being bi (pan, etc) in anyway.
@Boohurghhoo yeah that's definitely true
my opinion is if you wanna profit off queerness you better either claim queerness yourself or be such an unambiguous ally that you'd be condemned with us when tides turn. I don't like when people say it's "outing" to demand a celeb claim queerness to make money off it. like jameela jamil who's said sus stuff about trans people then cried she was outed when people questioned why she should be a judge on a queer show. why should you make money off a culture you're too scared or ignorant of to claim? cuz that's another thing, it's one thing to be lgbt+ and another to be queer. not all people of an oppressed group are with those people, especially white queers, they crave assimilation. like Pete buttigieg is lgbt+ and Laverne cox is queer.
can you explain some more what your difference between queer and lgbtq+ is. i looked up the persons you mentioned (didn't know them before this comment) and i still didn't get it.
@@blueobsession6544I’m gonna be honest idk who Peter is and maybe I should’ve looked it up like you but here’s my guess: Laverne is not just queer sexuality wise bc she’s trans and if I believe right likes men (I would say only, but I’m not too sure 😅). Peter might just be “queer” or lgbt+ sexuality wise and nothing else. Not like a certain type of identification and lived life like someone like Laverne Cox. Ig in a way seeing someone like Laverne queer through and through bc identity wise as well as sexuality (esp if they still date same gender even after transitioning) where as it’s just sexuality or preference with the other. Does that make enough sense?😅
Maybe I’m taking that sentence wrong but I don’t think an ally of any group should really be condemned with them. I mean ofc they are but, yea. When that happens tho, what’s more important is the reaction-how did they react? How fussy did they get and why? Does that make you rethink them as an ally? As a person? Things like that. There doesn’t need to be just queer allies, or allies claiming queer just bc esp when it all comes down to it bc..in ways that’s kinda how we got here. If you stand with and for something, genuinely stand with and for something-and when problems arise they’ll get figured out and solved hopefully. It’s important to note too, that learn what you gotta learn (don’t get tired either) unlearn what you have to unlearn, do what needs to be done to really have that actual respectful solid level of solidarity.
@@Boohurghhoothere is a queer culture. queer culture and current social norms (which are cisnormative and heteronormative) are inherently at odds. pete is not considered part of queer culture because he has assimilated with our current social norms, aside from being gay (hence lgbt but not queer). he can do so because he is a wealthy white politician. laverne is lgbt AND queer because her ideals and how she lives her life aligns with queer culture at large. even if she could assimilate she does not because it goes against who she is as a person. that is the difference. queerness is a way of life, a culture, and a lifestyle. lgbt is just a label on its own.
you're using queer as a slur still
As a gay hip hop fan of course we wanna uplift queer artists, but I would also like to manifest Gucci at Pride 😂
Anybody but gucci 😂😂
🤡
I compare what he's doing to being "Gay4Pay" like those straight guys do in adult films, except he hasn't actually been with a man just yet.
It's not even that because real gay4pay guys in films actually perform 100% penetrative acts with men.
It's gaybaiting onlyfan models who lie and advertise themselves as such, but once you look them up they have no male-male content. He is like those.
I doubt that 😂
gay4pay/straight4pay doesn't just apply to adult films tho, it also applies to strip clubs & webcamming, because historically strip clubs were gender segregated. In fact, older cinematography had genres based on casting strippers to do teases & such. I also want to mention those labels actually derive from how strip clubs catered to either heterosexual men or heterosexual women & it's why porn categories labeling as straight or gay assume a male audience. TLDR: your last (correction: clause) doesn't matter because there are forms of sex work that don't involve sexual contact & the labels still mattered because of gender segregation.
Being bi is a blessing fr
Or maybe his brother is gay
Justice for Lil Nas. Gays actually discarded him after embracing more effeminate fashions. Slipping out of the grasps of their sexual fantansies...ty for mentioning Cakes, Le1f and other artist...❤😂
What are you talking about? "Slipping out of the grasps of their sexual fantasies?" That's a lousy way to refer to gays. You don't need to have sexual fantasies to enjoy music. And nobody in my (gay) world ever expressed that about Lil Nas, nor have I any reason to think anyone in that community would care how he dresses - the more fabulous the better. What you are describing sounds more like some in straight circles as the clothes definitely bother some of them, though not because of sexual fantasies - that part makes no sense in either case.
@davidrahrer sir, unfortunately this a reality. Mind your frigging business Dilbert
@@Queen.Coborah Since this is an open discussion, there's no need for rudeness. I just don't find your claim credible and it sounds like a cheap shot at gays. I don't understand how you could possibly know the "why" even if the "act" were true. Do you have some evidence of any of that?
I think it’s more so he hasn’t released an album in 3 years 😅 lil nas kinda transitioned to an influencer who does features. The gays still think he’s hot lmaowtf
@@davidrahrer I'm going to guess you haven't perused any of his twitter pics?
I honestly think and have thought he was bi for years, but I also believe in letting people live their lives how they wish. We just gotta stop making these things news worthy and we won’t have these issues.
This will not stop being news until oppression stops being the cultural default. Not paying attention to it isn't going to change that.
It's also interesting that he got to perform over Actual openly Queer artist like Lil Nas X and Saucy Santana that's messed up 😴😴😴
Thanks for my first super thanks! And yeah that's kinda my conundrum cause even in hindsight, am I doing a "who's queerer?" Estimation to decide who gets what.
@@foreignfridays I don’t think it comes down to “who’s queerer” but who’s now desireable. Regardless of the acceptability of queerness there’s always a push to make it more desireable and less feminine/ more ambiguous. And Him being a light skin, masculine, hypersexual dude is something gay folks get off on so we are gonna think with our ducks and not with the culture.
I've really been enjoying these moments of you wrestling with complex ideas and have been inspired to ask myself better questions, without being attached to a specific outcome. This is good work
This comment perfectly encapsulates why I love Foreign's videos so much!
Yours is a much more concise version of my comment 😁
"Terminally Cis & Fatally Het"
Daaaaaaamn Foreign, that's gotta be put on a t-shirt!! (My enby ass approves this 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🤩)
I would get that for my brother for if he wants to come with me and his girlfriend to pride
It’s a neeed!! 😂🩶
💛🤍💜🖤
@@FOJO27 sounds like straight bashing.. sad
I don’t think he is really gay… he is def trying to get that bag 💰
Conversations like this also reminds me somewhat of the backlash Becky Albertalli and writing Love Simon. In retrospect people say it was wrong to question her ability to write a story about Queer teens bc she was a “straight women” but when she later came out as Bi we realize how wrong that was.
But I gotta ask. Q: Would that same backlash have still been warranted if she never came out?
I think a major issue when it comes to these topics is bc “support” is capital now so members of marginalized communities feel uneasiness with the idea of recklessly giving support to people that may/can/will move out of or remove themselves from the marginalized communities they get support/social capital from.
If she never came out is one thing and that’s still tricky. But if there was never anything to come out abt bc she was straight-that’s another thing. Bc it plays into that very icky area of what starts and causes the uneasiness, esp to keep it thriving. What if she switches up? When will she switch up? It’s only a matter of time, right? How will she switch up..? Things like that are bound to arise with that. Nobody wants or respects someone playing in their face, esp if it was done in such a manner and for too long of a time.
I thought Bussy was a dude, Badussy was a woman?
As a 94% straight guy, I feel seen by this video.
94? I'm sorry I'm confused lol
Lmao bussy is boy pvssy identity 100%know how that translates to badussy being women but I've heard it used before for women
@@virginiawatts4Bhehehehe I also wanna know what that 6% do 😂
Badussy= “booty, dick and pussy” Bernie Mac quote.
@eboni1346 just means he likes his ass ate on occasion 😂 by women though
I have have to say as a gay black man it is refreshing and heart warming to know that a straight black man has truly see us!! The fact that u said stateless froze me to the core because that’s how I have always felt. Also in most black spaces up till about 5 years ago. I know because I have a heteronormative demeanor that comes with a slight privilege but doesn’t change the fact that we can definitely feel “stateless”!!! Amazing insight brother am I thank u!!!💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾
It doesn't help that pride itself and queerness itself has become such a capitalist commodity.
I respect solidarity more when it has a social price instead of a social reward...in which case it's nothing more than "thanks" and move on.
You hit the head on the Nail. You can still be homophobic or make homophobic ideals comfortable for those who are homophobic inspite of having good intentions. NLE is still very young and he may have good intentions but what turned me off about him is how he was fully dressed at Black Pride like even the thought of a man looking at him made him feel uncomfortable. I wish the LGBTQ Community would uplift our own instead of continuing to allow others to have a platform
"what turned me off about him is how he was fully dressed at Black Pride" As opposed to what? This is the most insane sentiment I've seen in a long while.
@@whoisexaberriwdym as opposed to what? Ntm nle usually is half naked either alr walking out or by a few songs in. No, he doesn’t necessarily have to show skin at pride but if he was truly *fully* dressed esp *the whole time* (and he’s usually not) all while basically playing ally/cool-it’s kinda odd. Why not just do your regular stuff, If you really went on positive vibes, no bs, no weird shit? They didn’t mention making homophobes or their homophobic ideals still nice and comfy for no reason..
@@Boohurghhoo If he doesn't want to be sexualized on stage by a gay audience that's fine. A lot of straight men don't want to be sexualized by gay men, that doesn't make them homophobic. I know plenty of gay men who also feel that way about women and no one calls them straightphobic. People shouldn't have to prost*tute themselves just to please their gay audience. If he was performing at a non-LGBTQ event no one would be complaining that he was wearing too much clothes. LGBTQ shouldn't be all about sex and sexual objectification. It's funny because had he been scantily clad you would then be saying he's queerbaiting. If gay people don't want to listen to his music because he didn't perform half naked then no one is forcing them to, it's as simple as that. The gay community are not owed and entitled to straight men's bodies or for straight men to do things they are uncomfortable with just because they buy their music.
@@Boohurghhoobro he can dress how he wants to dress stop acting weird. Not wanting gay men to stare at your body isn’t homophobic at all, same way some women don’t like showing skin at specific places because they don’t want men staring at their bodies
@@Boohurghhoo right? consistency
Honestly as a bi dude I just don’t care at that point. Rainbow capitalism has always been a thing and there’s no difference here. I agree a lot with the blackness allegory tho because there’s that idea of the thing itself not being perceived as desirable but appealing on someone who’s completely external to it so it gives them a bit of "coolness/exoticism" and you definitely see it with queerness or even just any marginalized group
The amount of times my Trinidadian ass bawl out WHO IS WE every time you say we 😂😂 His music is sooooo fun if you like to wine eh!
🇹🇹🇹🇹🇹🇹🇹🇹🇹🇹
🇹🇹
I didn’t know who NLE Choppa was and I still loved this video, so great job to Foreign. Some thoughts I had:
I find the concept of allyship annoying, and I think this video finally helped me articulate why. I think the concept of an “ally” focuses on a privileged group that benefits, and a marginalized group that is harmed. While I think this is conceptually accurate and a useful way to think of it, I think it’s an incomplete picture and sends the wrong message for how straight people should help queer people. White supremacist capitalist patriarchy (to steal a term from bell hooks) is a system that is psychologically harmful to everybody and materially harmful to most. Adhering to patriarchy (including homophobia, biphobia, and transphobia) alienates people from others and from themselves, cutting them off from ways they could make their personal lives, their environments, and their communities better for everybody, because they don’t consider doing things outside of the realm of what’s considered acceptable by patriarchy. So instead of there being completely cishet people who entirely benefit from patriarchy and need to become “allies,” I think we need everybody, cishet and queer, to realize how patriarchy has affected them, and to liberate themselves, and to work towards everyone’s liberation.
The way that I know Foreign is actively doing this and NLE Choppa apparently is not is that Foreign is actively acknowledging and owning the harm he has done. He’s not putting on a good face and saying “look at me I’m a good person I love queer people so much,” he’s owning the harm he’s done, educating people that those things ARE harm, and in doing so is atoning for them. He talks about the personal benefits he gets from doing that, and that’s how it SHOULD feel, because it’s what the process of liberation looks like. Foreign also educates me, a White queer person living in a liberal U.S. suburb, about angles of White supremacist capitalism patriarchy that I don’t recognize in my daily life, and that helps me challenge those aspects of it more effectively.
To me, there aren’t “allies” and “non-allies.” There are “people who are willing to recognize and acknowledge (a specific aspect of) White supremacist capitalist patriarchy and act with integrity based on that recognition,” and “people who deny that aspect and/or act without integrity.” We all fall into the latter category sometimes, but the people we should be platforming, and whose voices we should be uplifting, are people who show us how to recognize patriarchy and challenge it with integrity.
Around the issue of “what about cishet people having the loudest voices and the biggest platforms around queer issues?,” to me one of the biggest ways patriarchy harms cishet people is by denying them the beautiful knowledge, art, and perspectives that you get by really listening to and embracing what queer people have to say. So a cishet person who is really active in liberating themself will recognize that, and will want that for other people, and will work to uplift queer voices. They’ll want OTHER cishet people to have that experience of really listening to queer experience. They won’t want to be the loudest voice in the room on the issue, because they know that being that makes them fall back into those patriarchal thought patterns. All of this is true even if you ARE queer; people with straight-passing privilege (of which I am one) miss out on so much connection and so many beautiful stories of and by people who have never had that privilege. So to me, I see genuine support for queer people (or any marginalized group) as being about authentic solidarity, which includes accountability, uplifting others’ voices, and helping to educate and liberate others where you can.
I like the phrase “allyship is a verb” (even though I dislike the term “ally”), because it clarifies that there aren’t “allies” or “non-allies.” We all fail to challenge White supremacist capitalist patriarchy in times where we could. I think we all challenge it at least SOME times, even if only in small ways to ourselves (and yes, this includes people who don’t believe White supremacy or patriarchy are a thing). All we can do is do our best and try to structure the environments we’re in to try to make it easier for others to challenge it as well.
I’ve had a very long day and I’m very tired but I wanted you to know I really appreciate you articulating these thoughts
@@janettewong9900 my pleasure! I hope you’re able to get some rest ❤️
Yes, I am reading all of that. And I'm glad I did, because you've added a perspective on allyship that I don't think I've understood before. But also, I'm of the same boat where I want to live in a world where, even as a really surface level example that doesn't delve quite as deep as your comment, a lesbian can range from looking like a lumberjack to a princess in a fairytale to your average woman in pants. I really hate this "reverse homophobia" where some gay people get so irrationally angry at straight/cishet people for not dressing the way expected of their gender and sexuality in tandem. And not in the sense of, "wow the fact this straight guy can paint his nails and get endlessly complimented for it meanwhile I will literally be annihilated by my family if I so much as look at a 'feminine' color", which is an actual problem and incredibly upsetting, but in the sense of "this man dressing as freely as I and many others have said people should makes me upset, and freedom of gender expression should only be limited to queer people".
Hopefully this makes sense and I'm not just shoving my own thought where it doesn't belong. I like the idea of both queer and straight people just having fun, doing drag or idk racing cars or something together. There really isn't much to be gained by limiting that personal freedom just to queer people, because how are straight, cis, and allo people meant to be good allies if we dont give them the chance to see how beautiful it is to be queer? Again, not when it comes to people appropriating and straight up stealing from gay culture only to water it down and make it into a dead horse of a joke, but for those that actually care. I want cishet people to care. I want them to be free to gender expression. Give them a new perspective, and let them see how they too, even if less so through material (and somewhat equally mentally) means, are subjugated to white supremacist capitalistic patriarchy. It really does suck the life out of all of us.
There are a lot of queer rapper/hip-hop artists who aren't pandering like this. I can even name some.
Megan Thee Stallion
Cardi B
Flyana Boss
Frank Ocean
Steve Lacey
Lil Nas X
Logic
Queen Latifah
Tyler The Creator
Purple Haze
Janelle Monae
Ashnikko
Big Fredia
Logic?!??
@@jennyjune9667He has long said that he's bi.
@@Urmumlel7025 damn I never knew tbh I’m kinda surprised I’ve never heard it
@@Urmumlel7025 where ? i never heard that
doechii
I love that everytime I listen to you speak my mind expands a little bit more.
You do something that is rare these days -- you challenge me to think, particularly down avenues I've never traveled before. If I don't grasp something the first time around, it's probably going to be very interesting when I do get it. You spend time on the discussion and you really seem to care about getting the points across. Add to that you are very easy on the eyes and you are the complete package, lol. Seriously, I'm subbing, and look forward to learning more. This channel will grow.
havent watched yet, commenting for algo in case it doesnt go down.
Whats happening today, foreign? Im babysitting my nephew.
You're awesome for doing that. I'm on daddy duty as we type lol
Touched on a lot of key differences between the black v. queer approach to appropriation, gatekeeping, allyship, etc. that aren't discussed enough.
Because I think there's a lot both could learn from eachother, but other ways in which the approaches have to be different because of the ways our identities manifest. Like beyond the fact that anyone could be closeted, we're also born to mostly cishet families around mostly cishet people, naturally decentralized. We're embedded everywhere and always will be, which makes isolationism much less of an option. That said, I would love for queer people to take many pages from the black community on cultural ownership - the fact that most "gay icons" in music are not gay for example has always seemed beyond the pale. Imagine most "black icons" in music not being black, just silly.
Can you please do a video on Morrissey. His racism, unwillingness to come out, his love of fascism. I, too love the Smiths and Morrissey music while hating Morrissey for being a horrible person. I personally believe that Morrissey's success at a young age and being loved for his art has caused him to never really being held accountable for his racism which was apparent in 1986, where he said only Black artists could get radio play and White artist were excluded from the radio. He also said he saw no merit in Black music citing Stevie Wonder and Diana Ross as examples. Examine Morrissey and drag him for filth, please.
I probably will at some point but it's gonna hurt. I still love him
counter argument - he is charismatic and hot, so it's alright. Like, that's why the hype started in queer spaces. He is, and i'm saying this very respectfully, like that straight stripper in the gay cub that's playful and fun. This is not a new archetype, and he isn't taking queer spots because he is not selling queerness.
This
I feel somewhat less upset that this guy (or anyone) is trying to make money on presenting as queer--whether he is or not--than that we live in a system that makes it possible: the capitalism, the celebrity-worship, and the fact that someone doing the bare minimum of being a decent person in standing up for marginalized people should be extoled and celebrated.
You can be upset at both-or in this case all and everything involved. If he’s not queer he shouldn’t feel the need and have enough brain to not present as queer. And, id he truly supports and is cool he can still do that without the extra theatrics. But also, tft he can even do this tbw and get praised for the bare minimum -paid even.
The issue is straight black men are being used to promote this and it's not seen with other races. TV shows and movies are almost completely removing straight black men. More so black people do not hold a high share of TV productions and so the narrative is being written by non black people.
From Diane Ross, to Beyonce to NLE what do they have in common, gay fans. Straight artist have learned to reach out to the LGBT community because when the gays love an artist, you can do no wrong, say something bad about Beyonce and watch a whole swarm of beehive people coming for the kill.
Uh...the gays are not the ones to fear when it comes to Bey.
@@sorryman105 actually they are. You clearly are unfamiliar with the community
Nicki Minaj. The most prominent example I can think of. It doesn't matter if you're talking about her or her creep ass husband (ex?) or anything awful she's said and done, as long as she's an "icon" to white gays she's immune. Same goes for Taylor Swift, though with her it feels more centered around capitalism and her high-key environmentally destructive behavior. With Nicki it's more about the people she chooses to be around.
And honestly, even for artists that seem relatively peaceful like Hozier, it really intimidates me. And it shouldn't! It should be more than fine to acknowledge and welcome your queer audience, to show them you acknowledge them as your fans and dance on stage with a rainbow flag as the easiest way to be an 'ally' (not that we accept performative activism here), but unfortunately the gay fanbase has just turned into capital. We/they are just another means of making more money, and even outside of capitalism, it just makes stan culture even worse!! Whether or not the artist is a poc, someone who's messed up a human amount of times, or someone who's actually a really good person, that stan culture is honestly dangerous and harmful. For the singer, the fans, the people outside of those circles, everybody. Stan culture may be funny through memes, but it's very clearly a problem.
The difference is Diana Ross and Beyoncé didn’t reach across the aisle. They were naturally integrated and welcomed into the lgbt community. Their music was already enjoyed and praised by the gay community. It would make sense that they would intentionally create music aimed at a community that is already accepting and cheering for them loudly.
Heard our Bahamian accent immediately with the very first word out of your mouth 😂 Keep it up!! 👏🏾🇧🇸
How it go cuz ❤🇧🇸
Need more intelligent heterosexual males like yourself. Love watching you commentary 💪🏽
You have a new follower 😊. Thank you for your growth and maturity towards gays
In my opinion, it doesn't matter if he's gay or not. Because being gay doesn't give him a pass. What matters more is what he does. Using his platform to promote intersectionality is important, of course. But if that profit is going towards furthering a business that does harm, then it's just an example of a venture capitalist co-opting the aesthetic of queerness. That's the danger of treating respectability/assimilation as an end goal: real liberation is pushed to the wayside.
Like the HRC. They had protesters against them earlier this year for their partnership with Northrop-Grumman, a weapons manufacturer affiliated with Israel. The HRC is an example of how gays will co-opt "queerness" to defend violence and oppression.
“Even tho the Smiths is my favorite band” can we get a Foreign Friday on that please 🙏🏾
My mind was blown ❤😂
As a as a member of the community that you're trying to understand as an ally. I am honored to have someone who is willing to go on that journey and is willing to admit to pass mistakes and willing to do better going forward. Bottom line: I'm honored, flattered, to offer friendship and education, and I think you raise some valid points in your video essay!
9:15 It would seem that the modern formula for stardom as a queer artist is to not outwardly present until you're established. Like once they've gotten there its like "okay you've slipped through my gaydar, you can stay".
🗣️Hell I never heard of ‘Cakes Da Killer’ I just purchased a few of his tracks on iTunes!! I’m a homosexual black male and I never seen you post anything negative about the LGBTQ+ community. I feel bad I subscribed to your channel, it might have been a part of your change journey HOPEFULLY.🤔
He has told the internet that he's straight... he made a video b4 the event where he emphatically expressed his views and his standing as an Ally to the gay community. Gay people have partied to straight male artists throughout our history.
Badussy is the name of Erykah Badu incense line
Is it really?😂 wonder why she took that route…I would expect that from Janelle Monae tho- idk I just would.
@@Boohurghhooidk, the most chill smoke seshes I've ever participated in have had Badu on the bg playlists- I see the vision with incense
Bro you always offer the most interesting analysis.
Just wanted to say thanks!! I've learned a lot from watching you :)
My opinion on some of this (white queer here):
While we shouldn’t gatekeep queerness, I also think there’s a difference between being queer and being queer representation. There are so many varied ways to be queer, including not being out. But I believe queer representation in media requires some aspect of visible queerness. If someone isn’t out, they aren’t queer representation in media. That doesn’t mean they’re not queer though.
But I also don’t think the issue is straight folk who start to push on gender norms. That’s great and I love it! But our media begins to treat that as the representation. As you noted NLE Choppa gets more attention that actual queer artists. Harry Styles is another good example. He gets credit for queering gender norms when queer folk have been doing the same for generations and have been kicked to the curb. But he’s not the actual problem (unless he’s actually doing it just for money but how would we know).
One complicated aspect is history. There was a time when it was very unsafe to be an out public figure. So allies had to be the queer figures. It’s still not always safe, but safer than it was.
I also believe that the queerness that capitalism likes is adjacent to the norm. Do we like men painting their nails? Yes! If they are fit enough or muscular. Or if they are straight. Or if they provide enough masculinity otherwise.
(Insider secret also: a majority of gay men worship masculinity. There’s an aspect of internalized homophobia there.)
And you may be aware of a lot of this in your research.
(I tend to not talk about rainbow capitalism because I believe capitalism is going to capitalism. If it thinks you will make money, it will use you. I think a mid-level of queerness is still not profitable. We don’t want an artist to insult folks with AIDS, but we’re still not willing to pay attention to an artist who actually has AIDS in the mainstream.)
Sorry. Just lots of rambling thoughts.
Big body Foreign is one of the few straights that actually are okay❤
Didnt we already say coming out is a hard thing where we shouldnt push anyone into it? Especially because some people are uncomfortable with labels, sexuality isnt like being a certain race and stuff, its such a personal thing and it makes sense if he wants to keep it private and wants to have that benefit of the doubt, like tyler the creator, before he came out he was dropping hints and the homophobes were in denial bc he didnt say it straight up, so he wasnt getting harrassed by homophobes.
Isaiah Rashad STILL gets comments on ig about people deleting all his music off their phones after he was forced out of the closet. I saw one girl say she was “a gay ally” but that she isn’t a fan anymore?? Lol
I honestly forgot nle choppa existed. Then again I'm not really in any spaces with interest in hip hop, it's mostly rock music or jazz or blues.
When ppl say stuff like this I start ctfu😂
@@desboogey😭😭
@desboogey I mean it's true though. I just don't really listen to rap music that much. I don't really care for it. I like some of it, mostly older stuff, but overall I tend to listen to rock and metal and bluegrass the most.
Thanks - 58yo, learning and leaning towards ENBY - presenting femme, not part of the community as live a"normal" white, working class life. Living this life is hard, but my Trans-femme colleague, she got itproperhard. You help me understand, thank you x
YOU BROUGHT UP BACKXWASH LET THE PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT BACKXWASH 💜😭💜😭
Thoughtful & appreciated commentary all the way through to the end :) cheers
hopefully my phone can last 36 more minutes at 6% 🙄
Well did it? 😅
My guy PLEASE charge ur phone
I don’t think we can or should gatekeep queerness. And I don’t think the issue is whether he is genuine or possibly queer. I just get disappointed when queer people are faster to champion the same actions from straight (or seemingly straight) people than they will their own (especially if they’re men). Sure, his actions are great. But I’m always gonna cheer louder and support harder for queer people.
I very much agree that you can't be too harsh with people for dipping their toes in queer aesthetics because you don't know who is LGBT by looking at them. We are harsh with homophobes regardless of whether they're closeted because it doesn't matter, they're homophobic. We aren't harsh with Harry Styles wearing a dress because that challenges heteronormativity regardless of his sexuality. As long as you aren't queerbaiting, we're open for pretty much anyone. You don't have to be queer to liberate yourself from heteronormativity, you can be straight and still pick up things we popularize.
The thing where you're wrong is the cookout: allies are invited to Pride, especially in places where there's too few of us and we need your help for safety in numbers. You should not feel bad about not being part of the group, it's okay to be cis, straight and romantically monogamous. There's a history of biphobia that still makes some gay and lesbian people exclusionary in all spaces, but most of us understand that this is bad practice that mainly hurts other queer people. As such, the only spaces you shouldn't feel welcome are the ones we use for dating and hookups. If you go there, you should know what you want and that you find it there. Everywhere else, being exclusionary is a red flag. If you're quick to justify why someone doesn't belong, you will always hurt queer people.
I don’t have the capacity for this vid rn I just wanted to say I appreciate you and I’m glad you’re here
9:50 the fact i knew exactly who they were talkin about 😂 (castro is a popular bi p*rn star ) since were hyping up queer artist my favorite is adrianxpression their a youtuber who makes commentary vids and has a wide discography one of my favorite songs of theirs is butch queens, strict top, nightmare , walk witta switch, drag ban . Their producer is ocean kelly they have a couple songs together their chemistry on the track is amazing another queer artist with amazing music they both make a mix of house ,hiphop and vouge you have to listen to them
Castro is gay4pay not bi
PERIOD FOR THE CAKES DA KILLA SHOUT OUT. CAKES IS A REAL BUTCH QUEEN 👑💋 and he's still making music! I've been listening since The Eulogy
Boost boost, especially liked this video and the realities of being an ally
Being involved in french/swiss far left politics, i didn’t know FLE. But with the rise of homonationalism and more and more gay/lesbian people being racist,i think we should embrace solidarity with other communities and their main causes instead of being gatekeepers.
I say it a lot but if people stop trying to assume things, they'd be wrong less often. There are a lot of things that are just not our business and not important in regards to how you treat people with respect and dignity.
And not just assuming: deifying. They spin the tease into Word of God and fall to their knees over a theory.
I wanna “correct” you over those last lines. It *shouldnt* be as important but with the way of the world, over time, we see each day *EXACTLY* how important ppl make it out to be bc of categories, sub categories, etc.
@@Boohurghhoo Notably, they said "in regards to how you treat people with respect and dignity." It's not a statement about what is or isn't important period, but a statement about how it should be detached from the baseline level of decency one shows to another.
Found that what works for me is assuming "neutrality"
So I assume everyone is bi, until told otherwise
Assume everyone is nb, until told otherwise
Assume everyone is a decent human being with faults
....
I do this not only cos some of it is true, but also to "fight" the bit of me that makes the "white, cishet, western man" assumption based on all the media I grew up on
really great convo, as someone who's only been (somewhat) openly queer for a short period of time it's super helpful to get to listen to this sort of stuff. you and this channel's community are so good :)
I feel like it's become super difficult to judge people's intentions based on their past actions because yes, they did all this so maybe their new image is a lie, but also maybe they just changed and grew as a person. Are we denying people the ability to grow and change? Or are we just calling out BS and people's inconsistencies? Most people under 35 grew up with all of the traces of their dumb youth and stuggles with identity logged online for the rest of their existance, are we expecting teens to already have shit figured out enough to not get dragged about dumb takes they had 15 years later? Or are we just calling out horrific people for their horrific actions? I find it very difficult to tell honestly and I struggle with navigating that, not just in terms of queer allyship but really with any type of allyship.
Rather have 😊NLE than the hate filled rappers that endanger the lives of the queer cmty with their words.
Hes not gay, however I think this alliance with the gay community is when he was attacked online for whearing nail polish and other questionable things that straight men dont wear I think that was the catalyst for him to embrace the gay community. It just so happened he cashed out in the process of being defiant against the people talking about his sexuality. The gay community knows hes not gay some even is online praising his support of the community. As for him overshadowing other gay artists that's not his fault it's the media fault for suppressing them simply because they are gay artist NLE is mainstream so ofcourse hes a household name and everyone knows him even if they don't listen to his music.
Smh as an ally myself, I don’t get why people need to know the sexual habits of strangers. It’s only relevant to potential partners in my opinion.
So I don't believe that IRL people can queerbait. That being said, I've never met someone who defends a Harry Styles "maybe, maybe not" type who has ever defended my OUT out queer friends, my wife, me, etc. from the IRL harrassment we've experienced. They also don't keep that same energy for Dua Saleh, Lauren Auder, Towa Bird, and the like. Having to talk with folks defending Eddy Redmane who couldn't even name two trans actors.
So my sticking point for this whole dialogue is, when push comes to shove will they be there? When they get called out for perpetuating harmful stereotypes and talking points will they dig in and do the work to learn? Instead of the question of "Are they really queer?" The bigger question is "Will they put themselves at risk (finanical, physical, mental, spiritual, hell even forgoing minor enjoyment) to support queer folks?" Cause someone saying they'll be there for you and ditching sucks more than someone saying they'll never be there for you and following through on that.
Lol I'm seeing how they all turned their backs on Lil Nas X who's very gay but embrace NLE with open arms...he could be curious fr..but he could very well be pandering to us and has the industry and label machine pushing it onto us...but we ourselves 🌈are hypocritical too
If he’s coming out Fr, we would love to have him…but I feel like if he was he wouldn’t be so “shady” about it. Like why so much buildup? Definitely seems like some target rainbow socks shit 😂 Or he’s coming out slowly to test the waters with his largely masculine fanbase because his creative autonomy is somewhat limited in that regard
NLE is queen teasing and making money from it 🤦🏿♂️ Glad I found you. You're 😍
I wish navigating allyship was easier. It seems like all of the lessons you discover while becoming an ally sort of have to be kept hidden so that we can keep focus on the marginalized groups we're trying to ally with instead of it being about us. As much as that makes sense and it's not supposed to be easy in the slightest, it makes it feel a bit like a lonely journey without much certainty of where you're at and what ways you're able to engage.
The thing is, be gay
If you present in queer or gender-norm breaking way, it normalizes it and thus can change people's opinion on the matter
it's extremely important to broaden the acceptance of people's acceptance towards even cis straight people just doing queer things so that queer folk doing that is also just normal
Like I believe nobody is at either end of a spectrum like neither all fem all masc
it's a net of incredibly complex relations between society, you, queer folk and the engraved norms of the aforementioned society
It shouldn’t be hard. Just do u and be a good person and support marginalized groups. “Ally” discourse is frankly exhausting and nitpicky it just feels like a lot of online ppl who like drama, infighting, purity, etc. Remember that most people irl don’t even care about these issues or are outright hostile to them. If u care and ur learning then that’s a very good thing. Be open to critique but recognize that some of this nuance is so niche and has no relevance to real material political action.
as a queer person, theres no such thing as a real human being queerbaiting. nle choppa is just living his damn life and if he wants to express himself like that thats him. where it becomes a problem is if he acts like prince and makes all his money off our aesthetics and then disrespects queer people and our autonomy. but there is no such thing as a queerbaiting individual. nle choppa is not queerbaiting. harry styles is not queerbaiting. billie eilish did not queerbait.
corny ahh bigotry
Why do people feel like they have a right to know your sexuality? My sexuality is none of your business and it does not affect you.
Because men lie about their sexuality and fake entire relationships with women and sometimes kill them when they get exposed. Shame can cause extreme violence. Just because you're on your gay journey, that doesn't excuse the deceptions, lies and harm that is often associated with it.
Reminds me of that other quote that goes" Your opinion of me is none of my business"
I don't have a stake in this particular topic, but I must confess, I checked your subscriber count twice, thinking I missed a zero. In other words, the quality of your arguments far exceeds 26k and deserves at least 260k. This troubles me as well: while observing the world go through a digital revolution, I’ve noticed, regretfully, that real thinking is becoming optional, often limited to the proverbial 256 characters- which isn't thinking at all. You, on the other hand, make people think deeper. Great job, keep it up and continue to grow preferably exponentially...
Foreign it’s Saturday! WTH
Khalifa/Le1f mention made my entire week, endless shouts out for the goat
Thanks for expanding my vocab with “canonically and appetence” 😊
all my degrees are worth is my weight in words
My journey was homophobic stuff, to hardcore ally, to I'm bi and i kinda knew the whole time. The past is real, but so is the present. Your end my be different, but we can and will change as people.
This reminds me of the time that the Backstreet Boys served as grand marshals at SF Pride. My friends were working the parade route as escorts that year. They said AJ was cool and supportive, but otherwise the band mostly seemed a bit uncomfortable and bewildered as to why they were there. I can understand them being in a show at the end of the parade route since they have plenty of gay fans, but SF is not lacking for activists who are a part of the QUILTBAG+ community who might have been more appropriate grand marshals. It made me wonder: who lost a chance at being a GM so a bunch of straight guys could be front and center at this high-profile gay event?
In all honesty, i think it's kinda both. It definitely feels like, at least to me who has no social media (not a brag, I'm just terminally lazy) and barely knows anything about the man, that he could be gay or bi, and engaging in rainbow capitalism at the same time. Like he realized his identity was something he could profit from, and decided to do so. What I can't say, however, is whether he has good intentions and bad execution, or bad intentions and somehow a good enough execution. Or if it's bad all around.
I really love your videos man, they help me to think...which in all honesty doesn't say a lot since any video can leave me pausing at any time thinking for half an hour before realizing I've gone off into several tangents barely related to whatever it was I was actually thinking about. But in a more in depth way, about things I was lowkey afraid to ponder, since I tend to hyperfocus on clear and concise results instead of things i have to slowly process and develop. It's a worthy mental exercise, and more than an exercise, it's a good line of questioning. So many viewpoints I'm seeing in the comments, and i love that.
I'm not as critical of NLE Choppa because we still have rappers like Young Joc who refuse to perform to a gay audience due to homophobia despite him desperately needing the oppurtunity.
I feel like people are minimising the public’s role in this whole saga LOL none of this would be happening if ppl didn’t try and make him gay on social media and play detective about his sexuality. Now he’s using it as a marketing tool and I honestly can’t even be mad at that as a queer person myself. Everyone involved in this should just give themselves a round of applause 🤣
NLE Choppa was besties with freakin' King Von!
Sexuality is fluid & on a spectrum, we as society have convinced and chained ourselves to this rigid thinking that you're either this or that, and nothing in between. Once you break free from those chains, you'll be able to fully experience life freely and embrace exploring yourself, your femininity, your masculinity, and your sexuality.
Generally more likely you were just hypnotised 😵💫 by your Unconscious into thinking you had a sexuality different to your real one.
If NLE choppa wasn’t an attractive man, he’d probably be cancelled right now
lil Nas x is not attractive and he was never cancelled
@@KimWest-hv4tvwhat is blud yapping about⁉️
For doing what
@@KimWest-hv4tv he is attractive and he definitely got cancelled, many time. His music career is tanking
@@anuhassan5596 queer baiting. Doubt this man has any attraction to other men no shade
UA-cam Suggested your channel so far, so good.
And yes, I'm trinny from maracas, been in the USA since i was 12yold.❤
People get mad at artist for queerbaiting but never mad at the ppl taking the bait.
“Blame the lgbt community”
Wow wonder what your position is
"They learn that there's a new pronoun and they're just like 'Oh my god I can't take it anymore I'm just gonna be a bigot'" made me laugh so hard
I understand the inclination to focus on his intentions. I don't think it's possible to know for sure with anyone. I try to focus more on outcomes in situations like this. If him speaking out points some shitty middle schooler out there in the non-homophobic direction or encourages other rappers to speak out against violence towards queer people, I think that's worth the risk. I'm interested to see if he platforms queer artists going forward. And if he continues advocating when he's not getting views for it. I'm just one queer, so teensiest salt grain, etc etc. There's always time to change my mind if it turns out he's causing more harm than good. For now though, it warms my heart. Popular rappers were not speaking like that when I was growing up.
This was a great video on many levels from various perspectives. Intelligent and well presented...
Whether he is queer or not doesn't really matter. If he is going to be engaging within the queer community he should be able to speak up and defend queer rights, go to protests, and uplift queer artists with his large platform
2:51 he isn't the first and won't be the last. Gay for pay is real. This is a demographic that spends money and money is money. The majority of the gay will permit a straight, masculine, good-looking guy to enter the culture to perform, etc. for the community.
part of the hard thing here that I think trips folks up about this is that most folks kinda want to treat queerness almost like it's an ethnicity that you are born into and like, whilst there are specifically gay people and trans people and lesbians and aesexuals and bisexuals etc etc people with specific identities that hold a lot of history and culture within themselves, queerness itself really isn't that at all.
Like, at a fundamental level it's not just about lgbtqia people but is also about everyone having the freedom to step away from the norm and away from the expectations that have been put on them and that ONLY works if we leave that door open to everyone, including cis straight people that we do NOT like.
like, personal example, there are other trans people out there who I really wish I didn't have to share my identity with cause of some of the shit they have done, said or perpetrated, and sometimes some little dark part of me will want to say 'they can't be trans' but i don't listen to it cause at the end of the day, if leaving the door open for them means also leaving it open for the millions of kids and adults out there who might never be able to find their way through it otherwise, I'm gonna grit my effing teeth and bare it
like...the fact that we all have to find our queerness and aren't just born knowing it just alters the situation with gatekeeping completely
so like, whilst I am board with seeing white folks like myself kept right the heck out of spaces, we just cannot do that with queerness, cause trying to curate queerness just straight up undermines it
yeah that does leave us open to infiltration and I hate that, but I prefer it to the alternative.
that's just one of the unique problems we have to deal with here
The rebranding issue also exists in music, both secular and Christian. For example, Kanye West rebranded and got access to millions of Christian $$$, overshadowing talented musicians who are actually living the Christian lifestyle.
😀What a great discussion! You are 💯 correct about the black LGBT community! It's as far away from belonging to any earthly community! Which is why I barge💪🏾 my way into the reluctant black community as I am aware of who my real enemy is, those who hate the very quality I cherish and will die for.... My BLACKNESS! 💯
I wish more of our people thought like you, you have the mentality and manifest the reality of the once fabeled ally!
we are more powerful when we have ALL our parts💯🖤
We need to lose the labels…that’s really the only fix. Let people be who they are without putting them in a box.
As a nonbinary person who presents feminine I really appreciate this conversation. Thank you 🙏
Just because someone isn’t prejudice against lgbt people doesn’t make them one of them. People don’t have to hate people or avoid people just people make you feel you should.
Your hearts obvi in the right place FF, you're an amazing ally who has educated themselves.