Ford Fiesta ST vs Toyota GT86 | evo TRACK BATTLE
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- Опубліковано 24 чер 2013
- Toyota GT86 2012 review: bit.ly/toyota-gt86
Ford Fiesta ST 2013 review: bit.ly/fiesta-st
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evo pitches the new 2013 Ford Fiesta ST against Toyota's rear-wheel-drive GT86 on the Bedford circuit. Both offer similar levels of performance, but which is the most fun on track? Richard Meaden finds out... - Авто та транспорт
With a few years on the clock now, both cars are very attractive on the used market. In my experience (as a Fiesta owner) modifications that you might find on a used example can transform both cars. On the GT86, the OEM tires were not performance-oriented. Low grip means fun slides but lower lap times. Adding performance rubber and upgraded shocks means that the lower, RWD car will crush the Fiesta in the corners, you can't overcome the fact that the FiST is a taller hatch. On the other side of the coin, the Fiesta responds well to engine upgrades. A simple tune with an intake can add up to another 100ft/lb of torque and push HP well over 200hp to the wheels. The FiST will walk away from the GT86 down the straights. At extreme modification levels, one is a 2-door, low-slung RWD performance coupe and the other is a FWD economy car hatchback, so with an unlimited budget the GT86 will ultimately outperform. Interestingly, both will carry a set of 4 tires to the track, so you can't go wrong in either.
This video was one of the reasons that i bought the ST... A friend of mine has the GT86 but i love both!
You made the right choice
You chose straight line speed over going sideways. :(
I've got a BRZ and you made the right choice and I've never driven an ST lol. It's a dull sports car with crap engine. I now see Evo were right in their first assessment of the car..
@@patrickbateman7122 I would love to have the brz. It is a brilliant car love the rwd. Perfect to drift. Nice interior everything perfect. Sadly you can not find a lot of cars here in our area
@@rulfryder17290 why do you like it so much? Just to drift? I'd rather get an old Nissan if that was the case..
I own one of these, test drove both, and would be a proud owner of either one. Phenomenal cars.
which one did you go with
@Kurt-LoMein I think he intended not to say. He doesn't want to influence you. You should drive both and decide which one you like more. That's the best one for you. Cheers
Not strictly relevant, but am I the only person who thinks he looks like David Cameron crossed with Mike Brewer?
Tom Marrison omg me too.
These are easily two of the best performance values on the market--you can't really go wrong with either car, and maybe having both would be the perfect Jalop garage. Cheap to own, cheap to drive, and loads of easy fun. Both have heritage and pedigree--the Fiesta from Ford's storied efforts in rallying, all the way back to the days of the Sierra and Escort, and now its Fiesta WRC--and the GT86 obviously to the Trueno/Levin AE86 and Sports GT. I chose the Fiesta ST, but mostly because the GT86 is impractical as your only car, especially in a snowy climate--and it has no room for stuff. Do see myself owning one in the future though.
One reason to choose the 86, if you were planning on customizing a lot. You can pick your own turbo out, and it us rear wheel driven, which is a bonus
The Fiesta ST in total perfection!!! Want to take mine to the track ASAP!!!
Oh and my 370kw F6 Typhoon (also track driven) proves that you can have 500+hp but when the car weighs 1900kgs with driver, you really do appreciate "lightness!" But when on an Aussie country road about to overtake a road train, give me the 370kw back! Unfortunately, no car does it all. Buy one, drive it for a year, then sell it and by another one. That's the way to keep the lead in your pencil!
Most level-headed comment from a Falcon owner I've ever read
Had a GT86. Now gonna get a Fiesta ST. Life really is too short.
polopowered....mate I've got an st3 with the mountune kit and I haven't had as much fun since the hot hatches I owned in the late 80's early 90's....
stuart watson Hi Stuart had hot hatches myself in the early 90s do you think people in their early 40s would look okay driving this car?
how can i do what you did. is there a site for those mods?
im new to tuning
I have a St, love her, but I also want a brz. Oh the struggle
Had a Fiesta ST, sold it for a toyota 86. Yeah life is too short :) and I loved both, I just prefer the 86!
Toyota 86, best car to drive! Now have both 86 and ST and I would still choose to drive the 86. The ST is definitely a hot hatch and it is nice driving a turbocharged car but not as fun as 86.
+Moheshini Rajaruthnam No way a 86 is more fun than a ST. No one I have ever met would agree with that statement. Its down on hp, gearing is not worked out, and it's quite a bit heavier.
+Tom Brooks Have you ever driven the 86?
@@moheshininair8943 I've driven both and they're both fun. Although a lot of people complain about BRZs lack of Torque, Fiesta ST doesn't have that issue thanks to the little turbo. They get their power differently, BRZ will be more fun once you rev it up and keep it in the high RPM range, where Fiesta ST is fun in the mid rev range like all the time, but power dies off at higher RPMs. For track and autocross, BRZ might be more fun because with RWD you can drift / over-steer easy. For Daily Driving I'd say Fiesta is generally more fun.
GT86 is made for drifting and fun, not for lap times.
If you want a good lap time just put some performance tires instead of these "Prius" tires and it will be at least 2 seconds faster per lap
Really all these presenters need to do is slap on good tires and then compare the GT86 with it's competitiors. One can argue that this isn't a stock car going against another stock car but really if you are comparing lap times, the GT86's full potential can't be recognized with those low grip prius tires
I did check the Autocar's list the best lap times and guess what?
Nissan 370Z (1:30.3) only 0,1s better!
Fiesta ST (1:30.4)
Ford Focus RS (Mk2) (1:30.8)
Toyota GT86 (1:31.6)
Renaultsport Clio 200 Cup (1:31.9)
VW Golf GTI (Mk6) (1:32.4)
...I am very impressed If this car has only 182hp (200 with overboost function)
Yes this is a good list, other than it doesn't look like this guy is a great driver..
skylinedrag That Ford Focus RS (Mk2) time... wtf? Surely not :/ Having a difficult time believing that...
Jordan Russell search for clio vs focus rs, if theres enough corners the smaller cars can keep up
Tire selection probably has a lot to do with the results, Fiesta ST comes with really grippy summer tires stock.
@@BensCoffeeRants there are semi slicks on the RS available
this is the first guy who's said the fiesta st doesn't grip well enough. lol
To be fair, look at the kind of cars EVO usually reviews lol, they have very high standards.
Dylan Knight I have a set of Mitchell’s Pilot Sport 3+ and it’s Glued to the road, it’s such a fun Car to drive.
I have a standard 1.6L Fiesta and I can tell that the Hankook all season tires do limit grip. The car handles great fully stock, can't wait to get some summer tires on it... Been eyeing the Ford Racing suspension kit too.
I know lol idk how he was even getting the rear tire off the ground tbh the body roll is so limited he must of been absolutely crushing it 😂.
@@halohunter5217 the turbo and manual are the fun part though mate
man if i felt any of my wheels come off the floor id shit bricks
Well, it's not that bad.
I owe a FiST Mk 8.5 (so the last one probably ever build), which also tends to drive on 3 wheels through corners.
Had a road safety training and I noticed at slalom, that my wheel should be a bit in the air, while I knew that feeling from before and wondered if that is how it feels. Instructor then said like 20 cm which I couldn't believe.
I love my 86 to bits! it ain't fast. actually it ain't anywhere near fast. But it is the most fun car to drive I have ever driven. You can get the tail out in 1st at 40 kph and hold it! And that is why I have a GT86 and not a Fiesta ST!
+Elruco Du Plessis rwd fan boys just love a waggly tail (nothing wrong with that) but I'd take the Fiesta any day (and am buying it soon)
+lalala kieran lol I sure am a rwd fan boy! But the ST will kill me on a track. One of my buddy's drives the ST and he absolutely loves it! Enjoy it bro!
Elruco Du Plessis hey thanks man! i can't wait to get it, really at the end of the day all that matters is that you love driving the car you own. And hey, both are really awesome cars in their own ways and both have a totally different drive :} I would happily own the Toyota to be honest :} maybe RWD will be my next car I've never driven RWD before
lalala kieran It's sad how you dissed fans of rwd without experiencing it yourself :(
The german Car Magazine "SportAuto" had testing the GT86 with the two different factory tires: 1. The Micheilin primacy HP and 2. the Bridgestone Potenza (both 215/45 R17). With Potenza's he was 2,1 sec. faster. (1.19,4) @ small Hockenheim.
And after 10.000 Km the car has more power.
The BRZ has stiffer rear Springs.
- The reason they don't use the same tires is because they're comparing the cars in stock form. I don't think many people want to buy a new car and then spend $1,000 on new tires.
- Not bad for his first time driving the Fiesta. He'd probably get quicker with more seat time.
- If oversteering == fun, looks like both cars are pretty fun.
- I also tend to find winning == fun.
I think on maybe better tyres. The ST could have been even quicker. There's no other "classic formula" hot hatch aside from the RS or Clip Cup (FWD/Turbo) that handles as well as the MK7 ST. It'll appreciate in value. Most also won't use these on a track, so do slight track handling lapses really matter?
While the GT86 looks very fun also. The ST also has more room to put luggage or carry things if you want to use it as a normal fiesta.
ST also cheaper.
But the GT86 still a fantastic car. Very beautiful design. I would buy one if they were cheaper.
The crazy part is that you can just drop an OTS tune for the Fiesta and get it up to 220whp and 310 torque and then it becomes and absolute missile for track and autocross
The GT86 certainly lives up to Keiichi's Tsuchiya's saying "I drift not because it is a quicker way around a corner but the most exciting way."
3:39, the put the interior of the GT86 on the Focus ST review.
Steven Foo I knew the gear stick looked weird!
Seems like both cars need a better set of OEM tires.
Thanks for the reply. While many people would disagree with me, I think that many car-comparo tests are not important because of the depth-of-differences between them.
Nope, just the GT86, here in the UK the Fiesta ST comes as standard with Bridgestone Potenza rubber. Don't know many tyres that are a lot better than those? Maybe Pirelli P1 but they cost a fortune?
+marksapollo Tons of better tires. They're actually a generation old in terms of tire technology. I put Dunlop Diezza Z2 Star Specs on mine, night and day difference.
ST needs a diff
Just the sound of the boxer engine of the Toyota is enough to make it the nicer car. Its sounds sweet and is massive fun to drive.
Michiel M BRZ/GT86's have equal length exhoust pipes which unfortunately devoid the car of the "boxer rumble" :/ Sound like regular 4cyl
FrankDrebinJunior you can totally hear its a boxer engine that's working under the hood of the GT86. A regular 4 cylinder inline tends to 'scream' at high revs. This sweet boxer growls like the non-turbo Impreza 2.0 I drove before.
FrankDrebinJunior Easy fix bro get a good quality aftermarket exhaust.
FrankDrebinJunior Easy fix bro get a good quality aftermarket exhaust.
Love ST!
With just a intake, intercooler and tune you have a 13 second car with a ST. All bolt-on's and cheap. You can get a .8 second faster quarter mile time with just a tune.
umm... same thing with the brz/gt86... the parts are really inexpensive and you can have way more fun in a tuned gt86 than in a fiesta... at least in my opinion, as the low center of gravity and seating position gibe you that awesome feel...
Julien Xu
um NO. The brz already costs more and doesn't do anywhere NEAR the performance increase per dollar in the after market because it is n/a. Nice try though. I gained 30ft/lb's with stage 1 lol. The brz has what 150 to start with??? Fiesta has 210ft/lb's or so. I agree, it's a great car and it was one of the cars I test drove along with the GTI. Please don't pretend it gains as much as the Fiesta with basic mods though.
+riothero313 there are bolt ons frs floating around here running 13s tuned. Not many of them but they're some.
put decent tyres on gt86 and then time it's lap.
Put the same tires on both cars. It's the only valid way to compare different chassis.
Gt86 is shite though
@@ayrtonowen2703 you'd know better than everyone who has driven it of course. I've had a Fiesta ST. Great little car but limited. A GT86 is a better drivers carwith much more potential.
@@MD-uu5nt I've got an st200, test drove a gt86, the chassis is shite can barely hold its own power, grip is shite, wayyy slower than the st, not as nice to drive and frankly just a cop-out of a sports car
@Scott Shipley 😂😂 no they arent look at track attacks ffs, sts beat them lolol
have owned a GT86 and now have a Fiesta ST, have to totally agree in the fun vs pace equation... saying that I am probably having more fun now in the ST than when I had the GT86 as I am less worried about getting an ASBO on my daily commute! :D
Thank you EVO !! I was curious thinking about the Fiesta ST vs BRZ or GT86. Because they weight about the same. But the Fiesta ST has more Torque and it's a great drivers car. I am shocked by the results of this comparo. I would have never thought that the ST would be in the same universe with the GT-86 or BRZ. They are great purpose built lightweight RWD cars and the ST is a modified FWD Fiesta. I cannot believe the ST was faster despite all of it's disadvantages.
Thank You
EVO !
I can easily beat the time of 1:31 of the GT86 with the same car, it can do much better than this and we all know that...!
probably tire do most of job hear ,but anyway this 2 car are very close in corner and on straight line
Yeah, definitely...but I think the GT86 can go much much faster than this...
it proves again that this Dickie guy is total rubbish
A car comparison in the UK without it raining! Amazing!
Thinking about the GT86 as my next car, replacing a 2006 MR2. Speed and acceleration is not very important as I have a motorbike for that.
So EVO,
It has been a while since this epic duo battled it out, and now both of them has a new generation, and both seems to have significantly improved.
So, when are we able to see the comparison of the latest Ford Fiesta ST vs Toyota GR86?
I am sure a lot of people like myself are interested in learning about which one of the two is the better entry level sportcar. In fact, O am trying to decide on which one I should spend my money one.
I know you guys always have be best review, and exciting comparison. So when are we able to see the latest version of evo TRACK BATTLE/comparison ?
Did anyone else notice the sweet if the gt86 interior when they started to introduce the fist?
It's really easy to do in the 86 though! If you have big, wide feet, I would recommend wearing tapered shoes like the ones you wear with a suit. It makes a huge difference! I'm 6'3 and I weigh 125kgs and my feet are size 14 but the 86 still accommodates me sufficiently, even with helmet! Well done Toyota/Subaru!
Really like these 2 cars! Probably my favourites at the moment. Fun, decent MPG, nice looking, etc.
If i could pay the extra cash, live with 2 real seats, a sports car experience -> GT86
If money is tight, the extra seats are needed or a good plus (for friends, etc) and still want a car that can make me smile -> Fiesta ST
2017 Fiesta ST, original owner w now 147k. No problems at all
I drove both cars by myself and I must say that the Ford is even much better. Its very well balanced in corners, accelerates better and is more dynamic. The Interior has a tougher look. The GT86 though has the perfect seat position. It really feels like youre in a little race car when you get in. But when it's about driving pleasure, you must go for the Ford. Also, the Ford surprises on the street - the GT86 is a bit of a laugh. When it comes to a showdown with a GTI, and it will, you will loose. The Fiesta can keep up until the mark of 200 km/h is reached. At that point the engine feels like bubble gum stretched to the max. But the GT86 wont bite your tail. It also misses power at that point. For less than 20 000 Euros the Fiesta ST is the best car money can buy!
***** Der Reportiseur The GT86 has more steering feel than the Fiesta, so I don't see how it's not fun even in the city.
*****
If you think you can't have fun in the gt86 anywhere without having your license taken its pretty clear to me you have not driven one long enough. To each his own but a light rwd sports car is fun all day. Also its not like you just slide around everywhere you go.. the ford is more practical but if you ask me just not that attractive at all and I'd gladly take the rwd over fwd anyday.
The Ford is hands down more practical and has the torque, but I would have to go with the GT86. This is basically FWD Turbo vs RWD N/A. Turbos are a load of fun, but RWD > FWD any day. A turbo is easy to add to the 86, but the Fiesta will never be RWD. I just see the 86 as a more viable and classic platform, and it will probably be more relevant and sought after in 10 years.
CodeTurbo Then make it AWD ;D
Der Reportiseur Your experience breaks the laws of physics. Your Fiesta is a nose heavy fwd open diff economy hatch with stiff suspension and a turbo.
The BRZ is 53/47 weight distribution vs the Feista's 64/36 weight distribution. It's center of gravity sits 460mm of the ground which is lower than mid engine Caymans. The Feista's is that of a regular econo box.
This guy in this video doesn't know how to drive. He misses all the apexes and is probably driving one to high of a gear in a motor that you have to keep the revs high.
There are track times with the same PRO driver laping these vehicles on I believe Willow Springs and the BRZ beats it WITH the low ressistence economy tires meant to break loose because the car is so balanced and fun to play with beyond its grip limit. So it beat the ST around the track IN it's drift happy mode. MOST people when buying this vehicle swap out the tires for performance summers. At that point it wouldn't be even a match, the BRZ would murder it around a track IF you know how to drive rwd cars that need to be revved out( a lot of heal and toe).
anyone else notice the error? In the photo montage of the Fiesta ST, the shot of the gearbox is actually of the GT86 and not the fiesta....
Wow
"I can mod my 86 to turn heads and smoke this ST" You can mod ANY car to be as fast or as head turning as you want to be. Hecks sake I could install a twin-turbo in an ST and be right up with +1000hp GT-R's, or draw party's with a BOSE 7-speaker set up in the back of the hatch.If you got the 💰, then you can make any car you want it to be.
Michael Edowski no you couldn't for alot of reasons.. Put MPS3s on the 86 and you'll go down a second.. Add a turbo and the 86 will dust the ST. Cant do much more to the ST, being a 1.6l with a turbo smaller than my fist, unless you are willing to spend the price difference between the two lol
Fuel injectors are the limiting factor for modding the Fiesta ST, you can get a bigger turbo and a lot more power, but you sacrifice the low end fast torque and fun the Stock Fiesta ST delivers when driving around normally. A lot of people in USA use methanol or 30-40% ethanol for extra power as well. I think maximum reliable HP /TQ for modded Fiesta STs right now is about 420HP and probably around 450TQ. Which is probably more than you'd want anyway with a FWD vehicle, also without modifying the body, you can't fit super fat tires, I think 215 might be the widest, maybe 225.
I haven't heard of anyone adding a twin turbo to the Fiesta ST.
Those Prius tires on the GT86 are pretty bad around a track... Also the FIesta has less weight at 1088kg vs the 1200kg of the GT86..
Yes there is not much torque in the GT86 as it is a square (86/86) NA 2.0 liter engine and it has a critical torque dip centered at 4000 rpm.. The new mazda mx5 with its lower weight and longer stroke inline 4 though down on HP feels more powerfull than the GT86 due to a much more linear torque band with max torque at 4600 rpm where th h GT86 makes most of its torque at 6000 rpm.
I love drifting it. I learned to drift in a 1963 Rambler Classic back in the early 70's. It took gravel...
Just put right tires on a86, not the original tires made for drift and you will let the st far behind
Xavier Dumont Then the ST should get other tires too. ;)
To be honest, I'm not surprised the Fiesta won. Blyton Park is a tight track, we've raced there. FWD isn't slower than RWD, it's just some prefer it and are better with it. Personally, I prefer FWD.
Sam Jones FWD up to 200-250hp... after that you'd be asking way too much from the front tyres to accelerate, brake and change direction. After that, FWD either give up the ghost or need some seriously tricked up front diff to deal with the work load.
I'm sure you knew that , but I just thought I'd say so. Personally, I think on tight and twisty runs, you can't have more fun with anything over 250hp, regardless of which wheels are being driven. So long as the car is well balanced and pokey, you're going to enjoy yourself.
+Sam Jones st has a turbo in it... the 86 doesnt
The review reminds me of the Playboy magazine comparison of the Vega to the Pinto back in the day. They tested a base model Pinto with those skinny tires to a Vega GT with those "wide oval" tires with tread that had been ground down specifically for the track. Guess which one won. :-D
It would be fun to do this same test and only mod the Toyota with actual "performance" tires, even on the same rims.
It is wonderful that you get to drive the car to its limits. We can only do that here on the track or closed off road events. It is sweet that there is no speed limiter on the GT86.
with those tires made for a prius (thereby sacrifising grip for less rolling resistance), harder than you think, probably impossible
Correct. I switched immediately to Bridgestone RE050A - a difference like day and night.
GT86 isn't a car for performances. Not for drag-race, not for races, not for going fast in straight.. it's a care FOR PLEASURE, and for that,n that's probably the best car you can drive. You can watch any GT86/BRZ/FRS review and you'll ALWAYS see a smile on the driver's face !
I own one since 2013 and I'm happy each and every time I drive it, whatever the reason to drive is.
No way that gt86 rwd is more fun. And not bad time for first time in a fist.
+Tom Brooks People who like rwd will always prefer rwd to something like a fwd st.
+Tom Brooks Driven both and liked the FiST so much more I ended up buying it over the 86.
Happy_Killmore With the new Focus RS coming out now, I've decided I like my FIST so much I'm unwilling to part with it, so I will be holding off on the RORS until I get my FIST paid off. That's how much I love this car.
+Tom Brooks wait for this gt86 2017... love japanese car... japan spirit... japan energy... japenese power... like nissan gorilla gtr hehe... peace yoo
Ronald Smith I hope they put out something nice and quick. With the AWD Focus RS pushing now 350hp 330 lbs of torque is going to be tough for anything to catch it. Hopefully the market will get pushed any more manufactures will open up the turbo 4 bangers.
Cause its made for fun. For drift and touge.
Best 200 hp car.
That Fiesta has gotta be great fun. All that torque in such a little car.
yes, the car met every expectation. the fuel efficiency is awesome but the cabin noise at highway speeds is a little unbearable
As a GT86 owner, I have to say that the Fiesta certainly offered itself up as a tempting proposition. However, I could not get over its cheap looking interior, and mainly the econobox fish mouth looks. At the end of the day, if I can't look back at my car and think that it looks good, that means something. I still wonder if it's not the better car of the two, though.
Can't really go wrong with either of those.
I initially went to buy a gt86, but after the poor Toyota dealer experience and after driving the ST I made my mind up very quickly. Pound for pound the ST is the better car. You get a lot more for your money. They are also a LOT easier and cheaper to tune than the gt86. Sink a few k in to an ST and it will be an absolute rocket. Some tuners have got 400hp out of it on the stock gearbox and clutch which is insane. The GT86 is more of a collectable future classic though. So it's worth holding on to.
The gt86 definitely has a better quality interior in general, but the Recaro seats in the ST are extremely good. Some of the best I've ever had in a car.
i'm so torn which one to get. they're both amazing in different ways. I love your point it's so spot on
lol "cheap looking interior" coming from the 86 owner
gt86 interior looks like garbage too lmao. its too small for me
the Fiesta ST2 fully specked up comes in at £19k ish, where as the GT86 with all the trimmings is close on £29k.... hardly the same price bracket! I got my GT secondhand after trying both, it is a far more fun and involving drivers car than the Fiasco, it is more expensive even 2nd hand compared to a new Fiesta but the feeling you get driving it is worth the extra cost imo. On track it needs wider and more sticky tyres to go fast, but as it is I prefer fun over fast! :-)
They set the car up, that if you do care about track times, all you gotta do is throw on some sticky rubber, with a trunk just large enough to hold 4 wheels and a jack. The people hating on its time should realize that. There have been videos that prove this, with awesome track times
people complaing about gt 86 tires just think if you put bigger tires with better grip it wont get drift and you will felt like car loose some power because bigger part of tires have contact with tarmac so you have more fiction and it will change car harakteristic so you must have more power and change suspension parts etc. and in europe fiesta is with brigestone potenza they are one of best tires and fiesta had more grip so its not fair to complain both car are stock and fiesta is faster that fact and for normal driver fiesta is easier to drive and in snow gt is ussles that fact for second car gt 86 maby is better but fiesta is easier to drive cheaper and more practical and dont have problem with reliabiltti as people says sorry for my english but im from Poland and dont have opportuniti to use english
Not a bad stab at English mate.
If I tried Polish, I wouldn't even know where to start.
Two completely different cars. The Fiesta is faster than the GT86--so is a Range Rover. If you buy an 86, you either live with merely 'adequate' power, or you modify to create the power and you want. Both are incredibly fun to drive and go about it, again, differently. They also have vastly different ceilings in terms of modification and driving spirit and aesthetics and so on. We have an odd fascination with comparing cars as better or worse, winner and loser. Drive both, buy the one you like.
the gt86 is a nice looking car but its expensive i went for a st and got the mountune package fitted from new 215 bhp and 236 ft/ pounds of torque and its just the better car for me its one little rocket a match for any mk7 golf gti the gt 86 performance just isnt good enough for price just my humble opinion though
Came back to this video after having owned a focus st and then bought a fiesta st after test driving it and a brz. The fiesta st is now gone and I’m considering a brz. Modified they will be close as far as straight line speed with the st probably just edging it out with torque, however the brz can fit a lot more tire underneath and can make up for that. Going to be picking up one come summer time I think.
You're welcome. My yardstick for this car isn't "miles per gallon", it's "smiles per minute". ;-)
I understand Doc. The BRz is not as tail happy as the GT-86. The tail will not come out till you reach the limit of traction or if you 2nd gear punch it in a turn. With sticky rubber ether car will stay planted. The twins are not for the faint of hart. The GTI would be a much better car for secure handling up to and beyond the limit. I grew up in a time with no abs or stability control. If you went to fast in a turn the Integra would just go into a controlled 4 wheel drift.
GT86 has fucking Prius tires. Give both the cars the same tyres and the Ford will never stand a chance.
Drive the Boss before you comment. It is sick. Excellent gear box. One of the best engines on the planet. From 1000 rpm to 7500 rpm the power keeps coming. The 444 hp v8 is worth 40k. It is not about the numbers it is just a fun car in a completely different way than the BRZ. Like the BRZ it is not for everyone.
Currently shopping for both of these cars or a honda fit, so glad they're fairly affordable now!
Had a drive of the US Fiesta ST last weekend. Urgent is a perfect word for it. It was so much fun. I'm a RWD guy, but I want one of those BAD
I would like to see these cars lap on identical tires. That way it is a non-factor.
Can someone explain to me why they give it the sweet exhaust in Europe and why we got those little ones on our first generation?
As they say, on the track it's the performance that matters... but at the end of the day... it's the looks that matters :) fiesta owner here, I would admire the looks of 86.. it reminds me of AE86 reincarnation.
perfect video for me. I just came back from a Gt86 test drive and later this week I go for a drive in a Fiesta ST. Can't decide which one to buy
Surprised looking back at how most jurnos were unaware of the ST 25bhp 12 second power boost in 3rd, to 6th.
I drove the all new Boxter and the BRZ back to back. The Boxter is better in every way possible as far as performance, feel and entertainment value. The occasional back seat and 30% better gas mileage and the fact that the BRZ was exactly half price for the car and insurance. Maintenance oil change BRZ $55, Boxter $140. I drive 20 to 30k a year I just could not do that to the Boxter. The Boxter was only about 10% better. Nothing else that I have driven under 55k is better than the BRZ.
But in racing what you want is a good front end on the car. When you turn the wheel, you want the front end to follow and go where you want it to rather than understeer off wide. Then the back end will usually follow...
One turbo car vs. one naturally aspirated car in the era of understeer. Results were predictable, though I was a bit surprised the GT86 stayed within two seconds. The real problem for the GT86 is that it costs as much as a fully-loaded Focus ST. The Focus would probably have manhandled the GT86.
Long story short, without sharp handling and low long-term maintenance costs (compared to a turbo), the GT86 is sort of a novelty.
Fiesta ST - £16,995
GT86 - £25,110
How does that work? Either the Toyota is massively overpriced or the Fiesta is the bargain of the century.
First of all, Fiesta ST is just a suped-up Fiesta and GT86 is a model for itself. ST doesn't really have any more tuning potetntial. You could go to about 230hp and then understeer would make it undriveable. But with the GT86 you can do miracles, from basic tuning to turbo and engine swaps.
Any tuning to the GT86, especially forced induction will give you one very expensive Toyota with no warranty. For £599 you can get a MP215 upgrade for the ST while keeping the warranty.
True. I think Fensport do a tune up for the 86. Gives 260bhp which is nice...but about £4000. So if you got a 2nd hand with no warranty..might be worth it for fun. Cash depending haha
tn21beer FWD vs RWD? are you fucking idiot mate? i rather choose RWD rather than FWD, although ironically i owned FWD Honda civic type R track racing spec LOL
CarCrazy If they were the same price I would absolutely agree with you, but 10k more? Doesn't sit right with me,
How do you like them? Did your gas mileage go down at all? I ran them on my Celica and they were wonderful.
Yea the Subaru/Toyota uses a Flat-4 cylinder that they typically marketed as an H-4 or horizontally opposed 4 cylinder that maintains a similar layout to previous iterations of the Subaru EJ engines.
Wouldn't complain with either
I know, I did not even finish watching this review. We are not alone.
you dont understand GTI conception fiesta is modern gti car it have to be good in every conditions not only on dry race track like rwd toyota gt 86 its base for drifting car and fiesta its gti its diferent clas but in my opinion fiesta its more universal car ana its better in most conndition like snow and rain
Well in the states, with our Toyobaru, there's a 4-6 grand difference between our FR-S and BRZ, respectively, and the Fiesta ST. Price wise, the boxer twins see the Focus ST eye to eye, of which there's a nice, big ole power difference. And then there's the Stang. Ford has a nice upper hand.
Not driven either of these,but there was only really one car screeching it’s tyres in every bend even the slight bends !
One more thing. Turn off all driver aids in the 86. They really upset the balance and from the outside, people get the impression that your driving sucks. But, learn how to "heel toe" or you will spin off the end of every corner that requires heavy braking!
Tyres aren't going to negate the gains the Fiesta will get from a remap. It's pointless comparing both cars as they're massively different and appeal to different audiences. However people have to take note that a fwd small hatch which costs £17k is living up to the proclaimed new 'drivers car' in terms of performance round a track.
I'm a ford fan so would go for the st although the styling is far too understated for my taste, would rather a more RS muscular look.
So...which one would be the better daily driver?
If they had the same tires, I believe the 86 would have a slight lead.
the gt86 is running on tires that are found on a prius and fitting those on a rwd, short wheel base and light car leads to pretty much little or no grip which means fun around corners
Try comparing the brz/frs to a focus st... with which it is more closely priced and see what the difference is. The brz/frs falls even more flat on its face.
Toyota does look more fun but on a normal road, I wouldn't want to drift to have fun. On the road i think the fiesta is the winner, and for the grip issue; just put michelin pilot super sports on it
Surely though when you stick the same tyres on to the Fiesta ST the gap will remain the same?
I wish we had the two door in the states!
Dicky Meaden is a great driver, no question about that - we also started shooting car reviews with a driver with true racing pedigree.
Karl Benz (Yes as in Mercedes Benz) invented the Flat/Boxer/H(Horizontal)-block engine in the late 1890s. It was called a Boxer engine because the motion of the pistons look like a boxer punching left, right, left, right. The term itself has NO bearing on how many pistons it has. A 911's flat-6 is often referred to as a Boxer-6. The term "boxer" is NOT a Japanese invention nor denotes some so far unexplained "difference" that specifically makes the engine a "boxer" and not a "flat" or H-block.
Put the same tyres on both cars and the GT86 is quicker. Stock tyres are designed not to have grip, making this comparison pointless.
First part is correct, second part not so much. Where I live, the Fiesta costs, with leather, 9000€ less than the GT86 in its basic setup. Of course there are several resons why the 86 is much more expensive but in the end putting a wider tire would have ended in an even bigger price gap between the two cars.
ezz il this is a stock vs stock comparison. the brz is also 5k more.
ezz il in this category of power to weight ratio, having better grip does not make a car go much faster, it makes it safer. Unless the tires are really rubbish. Put both of them on Pilot super sports and the Fiesta will still be faster. Also depends on the course were you are driving.
elwulfo666 a wider tire does not always make it faster, it increases the contact surface of the car, giving more grip, but also more room for friction, which can slow you down. Unless the contact surface of the stock tires is not enough to cope with the power of the car. it is indeed better to use wider tires or look for the same size in a better quality.
Neo VeNoM
sure but on the GT it makes it faster.
The 12 yr olds are out in force today. The Toyobaru twins were never meant to be fast on a track. The Prius tires have a purpose and they serve it well. These cars were meant to go sideways. We should all be so lucky that excellent cars such as these can be had with a proper manual transmission. Far too many cars these days have one too few peddles.
Nice buy! I'm looking forward to my first winter with my BRZ :) I bought some steel rims with Blizzak tires but I also have a set of rims/tires from my old sit with some (not exactly legal) snow/ice tires, just in case we have another snowmeggedon!
Yes they will... The Fiesta already has to be careful on the throttle and wait for the steering to straighten to put the power down. The Toyota is so held back traction wise it can gain seconds a lap from a set of stickier tires. It's significantly handicapped in braking and entry speed and exit because of oversteer. 20-30 hp ain't gonna shave off that kind of time. The straights aren't even that long
The GT86 is already more expensive than the Fiesta ST. If there were ever a track prepped version of the Toyota, it would be too expensive to warrant a comparison between it and the Fiesta. Give both cars good tires and equally skiled drivers, and it will still be very, very close, I imagine.
excellent review
Even then, the GT40 was mostly british except for its engine. And the british were the kings of sports cars back in the day and during the development of the GT40.
Does anyone know what the track playing at 4:00 is? Sounds like an all night 6am Berghain job
Drove the GT86 with 240 km/h (display, not accurate) - no stability problem. Jumps a bit over these little tarmac edges - could be a bit more responsive/less stiff in the 1st quarter of the spring/damper travel and a bit stiffer for the rest of the travel.