Dragon: "Boss I'm your best friend right?" Evil Boss: "Yes, Of course." Dragon: "And we are the baddies right?" Evil Boss: "Yes, Of course. Why are you asking?" Dragon: "Oh Good. Those heroes were monologuing that bad guys can't know the Power of Friendship." Evil Boss: "Sad that their world view is so small. That will change after we rule the world."
Villainous Power of Friendship is tragically underused in media. I'd like to plug Erratic Errata's _Practical Guide to Evil_ as a very good story where the villains have just as much Trope Power as the heroes. As well as being a Villain Protagonist story.
Azula’s spiral is also kicked off by the betrayal of HER right hand women. Mai betraying her to save Zuko, and Ty Lee betraying her to save Mai. This rocks her foundation so much that when her father leaves her behind, her mind shatters as she starts seeing treachery EVERYWHERE, because if Mai and Ty Lee- the only real friends she’s ever had- would betray her, then ANYONE could betray her.
@UCoO3hmqEp0b0wIR_oHBrDIA Azula already betrayed Zuko, and was a sociopath to begin with. She had abused Zuko his whole life, and after being scarred and sent away on a mission that at the time seemed impossible task, she became even more cruel. The betrayal they mentioned was simply her friends being moral. For instance, the uncle that she hated, she simply hated because he didn't want to commit genocide anymore. Oh, and her father just had all of his powers taken away and their Chinese Nazi empire was knocked down.
@@LegendStormcrow Actually, the Fire Nation is mainly model after Japan and not China. This starts with visual references like Zuko's hairstyle at the beginning or the armor they used but also includes things like how they sit and how honor and duty is very important to them. During the Second World War, Japan behaved a lot like the Fire Nation with very aggressiv campaigns to conquer terretories on the Asian mainland. In that sense, Avatar is suprisingly historically accurate.
@@cheyannegiles9772 Being to compassionate to sociopaths is a great way to end up abused. It's great to recognize that Azula's circumstances aren't really her fault, but in all practicality she's still an immoral monster that's implied to have killed A lot of people.. Her story is tragic, but pitying her would only lead to her making a tragedy of other people's lifes as well.
@@LegendStormcrow In which case it's important to remember that even that was kicked off by how her mother and father treated her versus Zuko. The mother was literally forced to marry Ozai, which makes them S assault babies. The mom doted on Zuko for being a more gentle soul but almost entirely shunned Azula. Even admitted that Azula scared her sometimes (most likely because of how similar she was to Ozai). Meanwhile the father and grandfather praised her fighting abilities and cruelty. She even knew about her father's plot to kill the Fire Lord and her mom's plans to escape with Zuko only. Though Zuko also went through the trauma of one parent loving you while the other hates you, Zuko was eventually able to come to terms with that when coming to terms with his father's cruelty. However Azula could not come to terms with her mother's abandonment of her for being a monster. This is further made worse when her friends abandon her for a similar reason and then her father, the only one that praised the monster she was the final straw to her sanity.
Dude, if people can ship Jack Frost and Elsa or Hiccup and Merida ((Basically DreamWorks & Disney)) over similar powers or archs *despite all the established relationships/thoughts on romance?* then fan fics can be written over trope talks stick figures. XD
My favorite version of the dragon ascending trope is when the dragon feels that the villain has lost sight of their original evil goal and usurps them.
...or the Dragon dispatches the Villain and takes over after tiring of the Villain's incompetence and/or finally deciding that he, the Dragon, can do a better job as the Villain, a decision which may or may not be spurred by the Dragon coming into some empowering new revelation, insight, ability or plot device. Case in point: Benedict (superbly played by Charles Dance, BTW) killing Tony Vivaldi and taking his place in 'The Last Action Hero'.
I know a version of the dragon ascendant where the dragon is doing most of the heavy lifting (going after the heroes, grabbing the macguffin etc.) but the boss and other cronies think he's a flop. Then the dragon gets the macguffin, gains a powerup and finds out the boss plans to knock him off to get it. So, he tells off the bosses and proceeds to waste the lot of them.
My favorite variant of this trope is “The Secretary”. While the boss is the one doing all the cool flashy big picture stuff, the Secretary is the one working behind the scenes, handling the logistics of the boss’ plans and cleaning up any messes the boss may have left behind both metaphorically and literally. These ones are great to explore because they clearly have a much higher bullshit tolerance than most and it’s interesting to find out why these people are working themselves to the bone just to ensure the boss can go forward with their plan unimpeded. It’s especially fun when it turns out these guys who we thought were purely desk workers are actually incredibly capable in a fight but only resort to that when all other options are exhausted. Also they are always a good set up for any workaholism jokes. Examples: Ms. Pauline from Team Fortress 2, Owen from Gargoyles and Smithers from The Simpsons.
I love how Starscream has become his own trope. He's treacherous and self-serving and it basically flips the idea of the groveling subservient role he pretends to be.
I was a little disappointed that she didn't go right into Soundwave as an actual Dragon (Megatron doesn't need one most of the time, but when he does, Soundwave steps into the role) but it's hard to be disappointed when Vader shows up. Later in the video, it becomes apparent she was saving Sondwave for another point.
@@boobah5643 Shockwave often also fits, though he tends to have his own agenda just as often, while Soundwave is traditionally the most loyal of Megatron's lieutenants
The "You tell me, boss" line is so frickin' perfect it's almost astonishing. There are so many layers of snark subtly woven into those four words. "You're the boss, Boss; if you say we're good, we're good." "I don't know, Boss; are we?" "I refuse to answer that question, but by all means, let me know what you think, Boss."
Hawkeye and Mustang competitively trying to sacrifice themselves for each other was so endearing. When the mcu did the same thing for a scene with a character named hawkeye, I couldn't help but chuckle
red delivering the line "it's probably a natural consequence of spending so much time and energy protecting someone. you either fall in love with them or you eventually kill them yourself" completely straight, like it's a circumstance your average person would run into all the time, made me snort laughing.
Red's discussion of the bodyguard tropes in the media adds to how intriguing they already are. Also, props to Red for being able to resist the urge to use only Fullmetal Alchemist examples cause it's harder than it seems.
for real, it might be because im totally obsessed with fullmetal alchemist OR because it just has many great examples & character dynamics either way i love it
On the topic of the "Dragon" name being weird, it's just a classic case of definition drift. TVtropes originally had the term mean a major physical threat the protags would have to go through to reach the (often less mighty in terms of raw power) big bad. So it was called that because it would and could often be just some kind of giant monster (not always, though, see Vader for instance). But then, with time and people trying to shoehorn their favorite shows into every page, the definition went from that to a less specific "the second to last boss" to "the big bad's second-in-command". So yeah, like in most languages the name makes no sense because the sense went away over time.
Oh I thought it was in the sense like fairytale? The evil witch that has the princes captured and guarded by a dragon Therefore, anyone who works directly under the villain (the witch) and is also stupid powerful enough to be the second to last battle before the heroes win could be the 'dragon' of the story
I am probably wrong on this, but Eragon also might have helped with that idea. Eragon and his dragon fit the right hand man trope, and they face down a bad guy who then makes a dragon to challenge that. Then we get an end credits scene where the true villain is shown and reveals that he too trusts in a dragon first to help him.
Another likely factor in that is the way stories change over time, so a trend in fiction from a decade ago might be almost irrelevant now, such that it's worth either changing the term to be more specific and/or understandable (see: the Boistrous Bruiser trope, formerly referred to as The Toblerone) or broadening the definition so it becomes relevant again.
As an aromantic, this trope has always been a favorite of mine, because it is one of the rare times that you will see a platonic relationship that is seen as the paramount relationship of someone's life. And when they are asymmetrically romantic (specifically righthand man to boss), the platonic righthand-man element of the relationship is often seen as more important than the crush.
I feel this as well, its one of the few tropes where the relationship dynamic is more then just "oh they looked at each other for two seconds then kiss for literally no reason" I guess this is also why I like rivalries and sibling like dynamics as well
Heroes: BBEG: "YOU HURT MY KITTEN!!" The dragon: 8' tall 20' long sentient chimera lion that the boss raised from 8 weeks of age, after finding it in the rubble of his own trauma-forming event
I suddenly had to think of Star Wars Return of the Jedi after Luke manages to kill the Rancor. Next thing you see a guy who is heartbroken and in tears when he discovers the Rancor being dead and its kind a tragic actually.
What’s cool is having a bunch of dragons with one boss.Using FMA, Mustang is loyal and caring to all of his colleagues no matter how expendable the seem. With the hommonculi, some are blindly loyal, some want to usurp, and some (Greed) want to completely revolt. Also, mark FMA off your bingo cards folks.
Kinda dubious, frankly. The Right-hand Man/Dragon is defined as, well _the_ Right-hand Man. The Boss can have many underlings, but just by the laws of probability, one is likely to be more valued than the rest. My boy Roy has a bunch of people under his direct command and relies on all of them greatly, but Riza is still the Right-hand Man, the one who basically saves his life like every other day. Homonculus/Father again has his 7 sins, but probably wouldn't put forth Gluttony, or Greed, or Sloth as his final challenge to Ed et al. It'd be Pride. There's almost always the one who's the best mix of loyal, dependable, and badass, and the Right-hand Man/Dragon.
Honestly, I was expecting Reboot to be talked about. But since I've never really watched it, I have no idea if a right-hand-man trope is there Edit: although I guess if there's a lot of action, no doubt someone will have a right-hand-man
Potential Trope Talk: The Last of their Kind. So many ways to approach this topic. From the noble hero that represents ideals long gone and a morality that is implied to be dying in the modern era, to the evil of the past coming back to an unprepared era, to even honest conversations about the evils of the past decimating entire civilizations and the preservation of culture such as protecting isolated people like the North Sentinelese. Characters that this could apply to Aang (Avatar the Last Air Bender) Optimus Prime Scar (FMA) Conan the Barbarian Red Sonja Elric of Melnibone Gamora (MCU) Thanos (MCU & comics) Geralt of Rivia Edit: Below, in the replies, you will find many more examples but here are a few more I've remembered. Megatron Daenerys Targaryen Dracula (several iterations) Ra's Al Ghul Vandal Savage Ganondorf Spear & Fang (Gendy Tartakovsky's Primal) Josey Wales The remaining Tarnished in Elden Ring The player character in either Dark Souls or Bloodborne\ Link and/or Zelda in some timelines The Predacons (Transformers Prime) and finally... Aragorn, son of Arathorn
“several love interests, a treatise on codependency, and the trope of the right-hand man” all right Red, no need to eviscerate like 75% of my favourite ships in one sentence 😅
It's maybe 60/40; in kid-friendly stuff yeah it's usually a redemption flag, but once you get up there age-wise you start getting into the classics like "mold them in my own image" or "unhealthy relationship".
I'm a simple gal, I see Roy Mustang and Riza Hawkeye on the thumbnail, I click. They're my favorite anime pair of all time. And the fact that the author didn't push the romance subplot between them too hard is part of why I love them. They never got together romantically because they got bigger fish to fry than settling down and start a family, but they're together in their own way.
I love the sophistiquote men in black "It's well documented that while individual people are pretty smart, groups of people are pretty stupid because the pressure of the group makes it artificially difficult for the members of the group their own judgement to decide what they should actually do" - "a person is smart, people are dumb, panicky animals and you know it!"
Shego's and Drakken's relationship was definitely a big reason why they were the most popular villains of Kim Possible. The snarky and hypercompetent minion always undercutting her brilliant, but idiotic boss and yet sticking with him (except for the movie) was always fun to watch. A good guy example of right-hand man I really enjoyed was Carrot for Vimes from Diskworld. Carrot helped Vimes rebuild his desire to be a proper guard and loyally followed Vimes through thick and thin. One moment I really liked was when Angua (the girl he had a crush on) started dissing Vimes and Carrot promptly shut her down refusing to allow even his crush to criticize Vimes unjustly.
Carrot fills a lot of roles on the disc some more surprising than others, even Vetinari respects Carrot and understands that Carrot has a lot more going on upstairs than he let's others see. Carrot could be a King, Emperor even, he could be a Folk or "Super" Hero, instead he very deliberately chooses to be a public servant even after he learns what his actual genealogy most likely is.
@@jlokison Really, given the way the (disc)world works, that "even after" reads more like an "ESPECIALLY after." Carrot's dedication to Protect and Serve his people fills out his literary role in a way far more appropriate to his genealogy than any of the legal titles he could claim. Heck, because narrative themes (speaking broadly and simply: Tropes) are king in Discworld, having the intelligence to subvert them (or even play them straight) to your own benefit is what makes a Pratchett protagonist.
It's turtles all the way down on this. Ag is, well, a LOT more than a crush, and basically becomes Carrot's RH. Then, she gets her own vampire RH, who fully accepts that Ag is top dog, and that Carrot belongs to her (or, the other way around).
Honestly, given the franchise's history of body horror, Leon's question actually turning out to have been correct would not have been that odd... Even if it was just him wisecracking at Salazar.
Arguably chess is has the truest right hand man: the queen (the powerhouse bodyguard) and the king (leadership). It’s also why the right hand man is the #1 origin of villains: the Jafar/Sultan, Viren in Dragon Prince, etc
Disney's Jafar was an advisor, not The Dragon (the person that could possibly fit that role would be Razoul except that his loyalty to the sultan is highly questionable at best and the Sultan doesn't actively have him do much, removing him as a candidate for the role). It's even rather ambiguous if anyone really knew about Jafar's particular strengths in magic arts, so he couldn't be The Dragon as there is no setup or evidence for that relationship.
@@JarieSuicune -- The Sultan wasn't the villian, so Jafar wasn't the Dragon. Jafar *was* a right hand man to some extent, and left that position to become the villian.
For the last time I am not a villain. I want the cheese and smoke mimosa by the pound. Those Villagers got in my way. It is also why I sold weapons to the rebellion. If the Queen is gone. I would have enough wealth for my BI harem.
Viren is an interesting one... because he is an Ascended Dragon who himself has a dragon.. one that ultimately serves to betray Viren himself, which was always their purpose. I actually really like that about Aaravos. And it's something I've put in my D&D games a lot: a BBEG who has a Dragon serving them, but who always used the BBEG for their own purposes without the BBEG knowing it.
@@sandrols7 That sounds like Aaravos is toeing the line of being a Starscream… except, y’know, he’s actually competent. Actually, wasn’t Starscream a pretty credible threat in the early Transformers series? I remember when the focus of the show was the minicons, Starscream was a pretty important character. So much so that his heel/face turn to the Autobots, then return to the Decepticons were both pretty serious shake ups. Of course, I could be misremembering. Starscream’s been a meme as a failure of a dragon for so long, I don’t know when it started.
Catra and Scorpia have one of my favourite story lines. Catra knows how much Scorpia cares about her but after the ‘betrayal’ of Adora she’s afraid to care about anyone. Even so, Scorpia leaving absolutely destroys Catra. Catra reminds me a lot of Zuko in her character
About the bodyguard - badass, I think it's missing the "leash" dynamic: when the right hand is there to keep the badass from going off the rails and probably curbstomping the opponent's side when the right hand is out of commission
A fair point but i think thats rarer in this trope and more a factor in stories with different character dynamic. Like I wouldn’t say Kagome and Inuyasha are right-hand man duos
I honestly thought you mean like, twist reveal! The right-hand man was actually stronger than the villain and with the villain gone they're completely on the loose! Kinda like the backstab Red talked about but specifically that the villain was trying to hold the right hand back
The first two I thought about when reading this was Marik and Odeon from Yu-Gi-Oh!, where Odeons' presence is enough to keep Mariks' evil-er personality at bay.
If there's anything the sith stories in SWtOR taught me, is that it's so satisfying to play the dragon only to completely obliterate your manipulative, abusive, or underappreciative boss. Especially for inquisitor, cause you could get so close to believing she actually cares, though warrior really captures the sting of the boss finding you replaceable. Don't even get me started on how you can then form villain-dragon relationships with your underlings and either perpetuate the abuse or learn from it. In truth, I would consume so many stories featuring a dragon as protagonist, if I could just find them. Villainous protagonists are just generally juicier that straight-up heroes.
Well, I know one story that has a villainous protagonist aptly named "How to live as a villain". The plot is that people are transported into another world, where the winner of the game could become a new god. And our protagonist will use every dirty trick in the book to try and survive this game where people can easily die. Of course, I'll warn you that it's not a novel but a manga(or something similar to a manga), so if you prefer reading words instead of pictures with words, it might not be for you.
One of the things I love about warrior is that you can treat your apprentice exactly how Darth Baras treats you. Its a cycle of hate and abuse that really fits into the whole Sith Lore
Not sure if this has any legitimacy, but the Dragon being a counterpart to the Lancer makes sense when you consider Dragons being defeated by lance wielding heroes. Essentially, the Dragon is the villain to the guy wielding the lance, aka the Lancer.
While I'm largely ambivalent about the show as a whole, Star Wars: The Clone Wars did an excellent job of building up this trope. Throughout the show, the relationship between Jedi and the individual Clone Troopers under their command is built up and explored. Captain Rex is 100% Anakin's right-hand man, and Ahsoka's too before she leaves the Jedi. Time and time again, the Jedi encourage the clones' individuality (most of them, anyway), and in return are granted complete loyalty....up until Order 66. And then it all goes out the window. Bodyguard betrayal on a galactic scale. With one main exception: Rex. Rex remains loyal to who Anakin *was* instead of who he *becomes* and manages to get out of following the order with Ahsoka's help.
Having just binged the entirety of the Trope Talks library & waiting for more, I am inclined to quote Sir Christopher Lee’s Count Dooku: I’ve been looking forward to this
Fun fact, Christopher Lee made ROTS infinitely better by sharing his war experiences to George Lucas. Originally Dooku was going to confess that Palpatine was Sidious and that’s when Anakin would find out, but Lee told Lucas that in his experience men don’t confess right before they know they’re going to be executed. So Lucas re-wrote the movie, which really added to Anakin’s emotional angst when his oaths to the Jedi and to protect the republic and the innocents within really started to conflict.
If you can, I would love to see a Trope Talk on "body swapping" but with a twist... I want the episode to be hosted by Blue who is, for whatever reason, acting a lot like Red.
Have "Red" show up, as well, acting a suspicious amount like Blue. Probably be funniest if they write each other's scripts, to make it feel as natural as possible.
@@elijahpadilla5083 If they're going to do that, a trick that can help is to write the other's scripts and then record a delivery for the other to imitate. You would think the flaws in their replication would be a problem, but their genuine inability to perfectly mimic the other does the job of 'somethings not quite right here' better than anything else in my experience.
@@Sonar009 i got my sister to watch owl house. she couldn't understand why i hyped hollow mind up so much. then i got a text from her going "oh. oh no." yeah. no one is ever ready for hollow mind.
One twist on this trope I really like is one that the Wolfenstein games seem to be fond of, that is, you have a villain and their dragon caring for each other, but it doesn't redeem them in the slightest. In The New Order, General Engel watches you kill her beloved boytoy, and frankly, it just makes her seem somehow less humane, since she's obviously capable of feeling but somehow actively has chosen to not only not care about a majority of humanity, but to actively hate it. Similarly, in The Old Blood, Sturmbannführer Jäger shows incredible empathy towards his dogs, but has no love for any human being, it seems. After you kill his favorite dog, Greta, he actually screams at you that she had no evil in her body and that, as an Untermensch, you are of incapable of understanding loving another living being. I like this twist on the formula, especially since the trope so often is used to make us sympathize with people who, in turn, only show sympathy in very specific circumstances. It's almost cathartic to have them called out on their bullshit like this.
That's a thought I've had for a while. I often see people saying things along the lines of "this villain wasn't totally evil, they cared about * insert person here *." And my thoughts have been much the same as yours: so why don't they care about anyone else? Villains who get outraged when anyone dares strike back at their servants are so incredibly hypocritical that it makes them easily more hateable.
example from a different game, Handsome Jack. Angel is arguably his dragon in the first game and the first portion of the 2nd, he clearly cares, and yet his caring is used to arguably make him more of a monster
@@zoro115-s6b One take on this (in combination with villain-origin-story) is from Shadow and Bone. In the scene where the wife of the (soon to be) main-villain is killed, we seem to be expected to sympathize with him, because he very clearly is upset about loosing her. But I had the feeling that he didn't get upset because the woman he loved had been killed, but because HIS wife had been taken away from HIM. He had every chance to save her, but he insisted on turning them down, because he knew, he himself would not be harmed and it didn't occure to him, that this did not apply to his wife, because he saw her more as part of himself, than another human being. He got his power-up to take revenge just after she had died - it was because of HIS pain, not because of his wish to keep her save. So these instances of "villain caring about very specific people (or things)" is more a sign of their egoism - they only care about who or what they feel attached to or even extremer - who or what they regard as THEIRS.
9:38 One REALLY interesting 'reversal' of the whole 'Bodyguard Betrayal' trope I've seen is when its the once-heroic BOSS who's spiraled into a full-blown villain-turn, but is also dragging the still-very-heroic RHM along and still expecting their unquestioning loyalty. Which of course leaves the RHM in an EXTREMELY awkward position of choosing between their loyalty and what they know is right. Either way this goes can be give some intense character drama and very spicy twists. Maybe the RHM takes the 'My Master Right or Wrong' approach and our heroes are forced to fight a former friend who they KNOW is an entirely good person for lots of tragedy points. Or the RHM does choose morals over loyalty and turns on their boss, which among other things can lead to a VERY tragic showdown between these two once-close comrades.
I like a twist even further on this that the right hand man knows their boss is spiralling further and further, and is actively trying to stop it by engaging the heroes in their stead. And if the right hand man is beaten by the heroes, you can show just why the RHM fought the heroes, and how far their once heroic boss has fallen.
@@kylajensen1957 Kinda, though the punch is taken out of it by Marik already being evil by the time he's properly introduced to the heroes/audience. The example I was thinking is one where both Boss and Bodyguard START on the side of the heroes, but the Boss ends up spiraling into a villain-turn and trying to take their loyal but still entirely heroic RHM along with them.
An interesting thread from this that could make for another trope talk is "Even Villains have loved ones". The villain can be a psychopathic piece of shit but they are seen in a different light if they have a pet or a family member they care about. Not an outright henchman but perhaps a cat they can stroke, showing that they aren't completely dead inside
Honestly I feel like the "villain petting a cat" thing comes from the place of "Of course *a villain* would like them, they are evil and creepy and horrible" rather than the villain having a soft spot. They wouldn't let a villain pet a dog, even less a puppy. Luckily many people are letting go off some of their misconseptions, but I still see commonly people say "Of course my cat hates me, they are incabable of love"
@@NukkuiskoHyvinVaiPois After my dad died, his cat would run to the door when a car pulled up and then slink away when it wasn't him. She would dig in his bedclothes looking for him. Cats are most certainly capable of love.
I’ve been watching all the old bond movies (odd activities of a disabled writer) and Blofeld’s cat has been such a weird thing to watch, because even though he’s constantly petting it, it doesn’t feel affectionate. I don’t think it ever even gets named. Also bond literally kicks it at one point and Blofeld barely reacts. How that wasn’t a “kick the dog moment” for Bond, I’ll never understand. But yeah, the values dissonance watching those movies has been a RIDE. Also hilarious *special effects failures * have given me lots of hearty laughter
@@NukkuiskoHyvinVaiPois I've been reading a webcomic which does indeed give the villain a dog (comic's called Jungle Juice and like... R-level violence etc, so forewarned/forearmed etc.) and honestly? Seeing this guy who manipulates/controls others to the point they become monsters with a *golden retriever* is EXTREME values dissonance and makes everything creepier.
"The Dragon" as trope name originates in Joseph Campbell's "The Hero Of A Thousand Faces", which compares various fantasy heroes. In folklore, the hero will often fight an *actual* dragon before confronting the intelligent but physically weaker Big Bad. Hence, dragons (or stand-ins for them) are often portrayed as a Big Bad's second-in-command.
@Axtwyt Starkiller it's called Ceto, but I guess that can work too. Although I would say that in stories about hero sent by an evil king to defeat some beast, the said beast is actually the main challenge and the main antagonist for the hero, and the defeat of an evil king is mostly glossed over
Thank you! I thought for sure this might be the case, and was wracking my brain trying to remember. Really didn't want to go find the book to page through for confirmation.
When Red covered the broader dragon trope she mentioned that in Greek the word doesn't describe any particular creature so any fearsome beast is a dragon.
Now I want to see an evil dragon villain right hand man dynamic where the villain is super paranoid that the dragon will betray them specifically because there the villain's strongest asset. But the dragon is just super in love with the villain and is just awkward and nervous and terrible at showing their feelings. I'm imagining something like, the dragon is always sneaking looks at the villain or stalking them like what Hollywood thinks is romantic but is actually still creepy. The villain notices this and thinks it's threatening but knows they can't take the dragon or afford to stop working with them so they give more and more rewards to the dragon as a "don't betray be bribe" while at the same time trying to make better plans attempting to maintain a strong image. This in turn confuses the dragon because they think the rewards are romantic gifts but they see no change in how the villain acts towards them, so the dragon stalks them some more to try and understand the villain's feelings. But at the same time the dragon is invigorated by the positive reinforcement and works harder to fulfill the villains plans, which scares the boss more because now the dragon is both stronger and stalking them more. And it just becomes a lope of them getting stronger and more awkward around each other. I don't know what the heroes will think about this, but they'll definitely see this villain dragon duo as a serious threat that grows in power just as much as the heroes.
I can't think of an example I've seen of this exact dynamic but now I very much want to see it happen in something. This is good stuff. I love a good feedback loop.
@@thesquishedelf1301 lol, weirdly familiar. I wanted to say Overlord, but Ainz doesn't seem being sus to his underlings, so not quite match up the trope
@@valhatan3907 That's what I was thinking, but but the crux of my proposal is the villain not knowing knowing the dragon's feelings. Albedo and Shalltear have made there thirst quite clear. I guess the whole Demiurge master planning for Ainz is a little closer, but still not quite the spicy relationship I'm looking for.
This vid made me realize why I love Castlevania’s Isaak: He’s a dragon that lost his master. It’s a very interesting twist, especially given that Dracula saved his life, so now Isaak has to find a new motivation. It’s also a stark contrast to basically all of Dracula’s court who betray him in some way or form, especially Carmilla (but I mean… we all knew she was gonna betray him the second she stepped into the room). Castlevania plays with this trope a lot after season 2, especially with Carmilla.
Yep he's a Dragon in every fashion. Except 1 Dracula makes Issac look harmless in Comparison. He honestly doesn't need Issac for anything other than his armies. But eh
@@Firestorm422 Honestly, I don’t think Issac was even there to make the armies. It seemed more like Dracula had him there to be a friend to talk to in his grief. Too bad Issac never figured that out.
I've always been a fan of the idea of the bad guy and dragon being in love, or other such relationship, and if one dies than it triggers a grief induced powerup for the survivor that makes them WAAAAAAAAAY more dangerous than they were previously. One of my favorite examples is an old ps2 games called shadow hearts: from the new world, where there's a villain/sidekick duo named Lady and killer (ya, not very original, I know). Lady is literally an emotionless husk of her former self, but she brought killer back from near death and so he feels obligated to defend her from they party because she saved his life. At the end of the game, he dies to the party in a way that she can't revive him (seemingly at the time) and she flies off the handle in an emotion fueled rage, the only emotion she'd showed through the entire game. It was pretty sad, and you genuinely feel sorry for her at that moment.
Yes!!!! I love the idea of a bad guy and their #2 falling in love. It's always sweet to me to imagine a villain having someone they genuinely care about, how even the coldest of hearts can have a warm spot. And I like the idea of a couple that can be evil together. It's reasons like this that I unironically ship Mr. Burns and Smithers from The Simpsons. XD
Or they only become villains in the first place because one of them died and the other one took on the help of some eldritch being to bring them back... "Sylas.. I broke the world for us!"
They don’t even have to be romantically involved. “Stop? You want me to stop? You think I have the luxury to stop? You cut my sister down like a god damn animal and you want me to stop?! No one stops! It’s to late to stop! No one STOPS!!!”
There's also an interesting sub variant of the Dragon Ascendant trope in which the main villain goes through a reception arc and abandons their evil scheme(s), only to be backstabbed and replaced by their Dragon, who it turns out was way more committed to the whole evil thing. This has the benefit of making the final villain someone that the hero(es) already have a history with, but risks disappointing the audience if they were hoping for a showdown with the original villain. It's also a pretty handy trope in games, as it can allow the player to successfully diplomance the main villain into submission without sacrificing the exciting boss fight.
That’s pretty much what would’ve happened in Arcane, if Silco hadn’t been killed by Jinx. Sevika was loyal to the cause. When Vander wasn’t pushing the cause forward, she went to Silco. Silco would’ve given up the cause to protect Jinx, so it was easy to expect Sevika to leave Silco for someone new. The only difference between what you said and Arcane is that Sevika isn’t a leader, and she knows it better than anyone. She doesn’t have the vision for it. So she wouldn’t take over herself, but support someone else.
Or sometimes the second in command is just WAY more extreme in his beliefs than the main villain. Like the villain goes "I want to conquer the Earth, not summon Satan to destroy it", then the henchman just kills him and summons Satan himself.
Here's a hot take on a Right-hand Man: Holmes and Watson! The archetypal Dynamic Duo, yes, but also: 1) Perfect fit for the Brains-and-Brawn category, while Holmes is no slouch and Watson is anything but a dullard, this just serves to up the badassery of both of them, as they exceed each other's high standards that they hold for themselves 2) Obviously deathly loyal on both ends, but also Holmes is basically Watson's employer, given the narrator setting and plot device. It's quite possible, in fact, that the tales of Holmes' exploits might be a steady and reliable source of income for the retired army doctor. So there is also an explicit boss/employee angle. 3) Holmes is shown to rely on Watson time and again, for autopsies, or marksmanship, or general application of violence, or, you know, mending wounds, which is quite essential in the line of work; Whereas Watson is decidedly more self-sufficient, because without Holmes he's just a retired gentleman with an uncannily sharp pen. So, there is emphasis on the boss being more reliant on the right-hand man than the other way round.
Watson is also a lancer A lancer fundamentally is a character who makes another character more interesting by challenging them Watson although he is on Holmes’s side he challenges Holmes by being politely confused and asking Homes to explain This makes homes more interesting because it lets us see his thoughts instead which adds depth to him as a character
I'm pretty sure they so solidly count as a dynamic duo _because_ they support eachother so much, almost every aspect of either of their characters is both shoring up some part of the other and serving to make some part of the other _more_ in some way. good lord it was hard to find a way to write that sentence without it sounding like a gay joke, no wonder they're a classic mainstay for a certain kind of fanfic. they get along like an old married couple, they display the classic attributes of a successful long-term relationship, and they straight up complete eachother.
I’m also a fan of the Former Right Hand Man, where a pair of characters were once on the same side and have now flipped partially- look at Thor and Loki in the Marvel Films. Even though initially we don’t see much of it, their relationships as brothers made Loni the thinking right hand man of Thor, who replaces him with a five man band who didn’t exactly treat him well. This set up, even though a lot of it is off screen, makes the rise of Loki as a big bad and or dragon makes complete sense- his fight is personal.
Confused and asking for clarification: when you said "a five man band who didn't exactly treat him well" do you mean Thor+Sif+The Warriors Three didn't treat Loki well or am I way off?
I like to think this is part of why Thor and Cap are such good friends, that after the events of winter soldier and the dark world that they spent a lot of time commiserating over losing their dark haired right hand man who came back evil and who they desperately tried to save.
Walter's betrayal of Hellsing was to reclaim his lost youth and return to his peak self. Alucard hates this as he envies humans for living, aging and dying - all things he cannot do. He tells Walter he was much more beautiful as an old man. It harkens back to conversation Alucard and Walter have at the beginning of the series about Walter being a "John Bull" - a classic older British gentleman.
Also Walter was working for them from the very beginning since the end of the war so in a way his attachment to Integra and Seris was him becoming the mask.
Mmm… not always. His defining feature is more that he always was just as loyal to Megatron as necessary, but always waiting for the opportunity to betray Megatron in order to get his Klingon promotion
@@DarkFlamesDarkness To my knowledge Starscream was the main leader or general of the cybertronian uhh, airborne military for lack of a better term, and he himself was an excellent fighter when engaged in air combat, which is why the decepticons even have as many flying bots as they have since the vast majority of flying bots on cybertron were in that military segment, and many of them followed Starscream because of his combat abilities, i have not seen the Prime show, but to my knowledge in it Starscream rarely ever gets to actually show off his skills as an air menace, which is a shame and is the reason why many people believe he's a weakling, sad face :(
It all ultimately depends on which version of Starscream you cover, really. G1 Starscream was second in command because he was the best shot among the Deceptacons, making him often the best pair to Megatron who transformed into a powerful gun. In the first two series of the Unicron Saga (Armada and Energon), his character is explored further and he even defects for a time as a result, even if he returns to the Deceptacons in the end. In the final part of the Unicron Saga, Transformers: Cybertron, he actually gets to explore being the primary antagonist for a time due to retrieving a major source of power and making use of it to become more threatening. It's really only the more recent series that have explored making him comparatively easy to walk over even by average rank and file where his cunning ends up being his only real strength, which is why he is treated as a second in command at times.
@@DarkFlamesDarknesswell, it depends, but it is pretty straightforward. In TF Animated, Starscream is a menace and powerhouse, easily the second strongest decepticon behind Megatron, and once he goes Solo, he’s still a menace to Autobots and Decepticons. In TF Prime, he’s by far the weakest and at his most cowardice, but he’s cunning and smart as hell. While Megatron is unavailable, he comes up with pretty good plans for the deceptions and proves to be a much better leader at overall planning than Megatron (even Soundwave somewhat respects him as a leader). And again, him Solo is a pretty good antagonist. Despite how weak he is and having basically no resources, he manages to severely affect the devepticons, and play the autobots to his advantage. To the point that Megatron decides to take him back instead of killing him despite his treachery, just for how effective he ultimately is
I mean, His Dark Materials did it too, even if I found it hella anticlimactic for how religious types got their collective panties in a twist over that scene.
Occasional variant--Ensnare God (Pokémon games where you can put ribbons on Arceus, the creator of the universe, and make it enter beauty contests come immediately to mind, but there are other examples)
What I really want to see is an "evil king" with a caring sibling, parent or child that walks in on the "hero" killing them that then becomes the new protagonist.
@@liriumcarrousel4284 legit thought abt that game as soon as I read the OP tweet lol. Also damn I need a replay soon tbh. Need to see my wife (Abby) again.
I wish we could have had this as a two-parter, one for righthand man generally and one for dragon/villain dynamics specifically. I kind of feel like the general trope got lost in all the spice of the more specific form, which is the only possible justification for Samwise Gamgee being completely absent from the video.
Samwise is no Dragon; he is not combat oriented even slightly (hitting someone with a frying pan in self-defense does not count) and his resistance to the influence of the Ring was not due to any mighty power but due to his not having a strong enough selfish attribute that Sauron could corrupt at that time (otherwise he totally would be the one to toss the Ring into destruction and that wasn't the point). Samwise is a True Best Friend and gardener. It is not complimentary to assign him a role he does not fill, just as would be to deny him one he does. He's explicitly happy with his lot in life!
@@JarieSuicune this was very well reasoned and eloquently put. I absolutely agree he isn't a dragon, but I would argue the asymmetric nature of their relationship, Sam being so essential to Frodo's completing the journey, and his protective attitude towards Frodo even in non-combat situations would still qualify him as a righthand man, albeit an unconventional one.
I spent the whole time waiting for a Sam and Frodo movie clip. Like the following: Frodo: I am Frodo Baggins, and this is Samwise Gamgee. Faramir: Your bodyguard? Sam: His gardener. I laughed at that for way too long in theaters.
Due to being a choose your own adventure game, Henry Stickmin gets to explore various outcomes for Right Hand Man of the Toppat Clan, ranging from continuing to serve the leader of the clan after they've been demoted to coming back from death as a cyborg to do battle with Henry again.
Man talking about the stickmin games are like talking about beethoven in a music lesson for pop artists. Such mastery is simply unfair to ask for from such people, they were truly one of a kind
He was the definition of a caring badass! And it's not even that he only cares for Reginald, since if you choose to side with the Toppat's he would be just as helpful and kind to Henry. Gosh I love that game.
Red doing a Trope Talk about the Right Hand Man without talking about THE Right Hand Man is clearly doing both the Henry Stickmin series and the Trope Talk a disservice. RHM is interesting as a Right Hand Man because he isn't simply loyal to Reginald Copperbottom, but instead is loyal to the Toppat Clan as a whole. He simply wants what's best for the Clan, and works with Copperbottom to do what's best for the Clan, rather than working for Copperbottom out of loyalty to him.
My favorite thing is when the villain boss will sacrifice to protect their bodyguard. I just love villains who will inconvenience their plans in order to protect their underlings
@@marsmallow7245 it doesn't have to have any romantic connotations, it could be friendship os simply not wanting to lose their litteral most valuable employee.(the right hand man is defined as enabling the boss to actually run their empire/buisness) But that has never stopped the shippers, i mean have you seen how bakugo & midoria get shipped with anything that moves including eachother.
Interestingly, this applies to the Arthur/Merlin dynamic in Merlin. Merlin is his manservant and also technically i required to taste something if they suspect it's a poison, but he's also unofficially Arthur's closest advisor, and unknown to arthur because of plot, his bodyguard. Which reverses the whole fighter/mage dynamic, plus, as magic is illegal, merlin can't use his magic all the time, so arthur is more reliable in kicking arse. Merlin is loyal to Arthur because of at first destiny, then because of personal connections that people ship them about (it's noted by multiple characters that merlin is unusually loyal). So yeah, I'm off to read more fanfiction about it
Well not sure exactly which iteration of these two are being referred to, this comes from a Mentor/Mentee setup. It is one way to balance out the hierarchy of power, when the novice is supposed to lead while the master remains more in the background to either let the novice grow/shine or to be saved as a trump card.
@@truekurayami They're talking about the BBC show Merlin. It's a divergence of the more traditional "Merlin as old wizard, Arthur as young king", where Merlin and Arthur are both about the same age with Merlin being a royal servant and trusted friend to Arthur rather than a mentor.
@@masaufuku1735 Thanks for clearing that up, Arthur and Merlin are probably the two most used characters, so I could have probably checked 100 different shows and still not have figured it out
If you take suggestions, please do the “Group of Misfits” Trope Talk. People who been cast out of society for different reasons only to meet other outcast like them to become a team or family is an excellent trope to talk about. Characters like the X-Men, Doom Patrol, Straw Hats Pirates, and Phantom Troupe are great examples of it.
All this talk about "right hand [men]" has overlap with the advisor and king trope, the "power behind the throne," if you will. This is a mutable inversion of the trope. The advisor knows the leader on the throne is very valuable, as the advisor has neither a legitimate claim, nor the willingness to impractically place a target on their back. The king is used as a mouthpiece to perform the advisor's plans. If the advisor is cartoonishly evil and ambitious, he'll scheme and act to usurp the king. Heroic advisors would be performing similar schemes, though the plot (and therefore context) drives all schemes an advisor would ever make.
Another version of the advisor I really like is when they are smarter than their boss, but believe in their vision/cause, so they follow and advise them. Usually at some point, the boss ignores some critical advice and bad stuff happens to them. Sometimes then the advisor will have foreseen the bad stuff and planned ahead and gets them out. If this duo is the bad guys, then whoever the smart good guy is might have also foreseen the foreseeing and made a counter counter plan lol
About Walter in Hellsing: The betrayal wasn't really unexplained at all! Walter mentions that he is getting old. He used to be comparable to Alucard, an unstoppable monster hunter machine, but he is still human. So when he gets old, he starts getting weaker, while Alucard gets stronger. He betrays the Hellsing because he longs to be at his peak again, and is willing to give it a one in a million shot to make it happen.
It was in my opinion a *really* bad writing choice because at no prior point is the Walter shown to be a vain Goku type OR explained how killing Alucard will make him strong. It just seemed nonsensical. I was really hoping Red would explain it on a way consistent with the character.
I think she’s getting at the fact that, in the OVAs, it’s not very CLEAR. Honestly, I think T4⭐️ did a great job with the PARODY version, Hellsing Ultimate Abridged, where Walter just being tired of Alucard’s jackass behavior comes across as completely understandable.
So Walter thought, when the combined forces of the Nazis, the Catholic Crusaders, and motherfucking Alexander Anderson all failed to bring Alucard down; *he* was going to be the one?
I mean, frankly the only villains who don't have that are the ones who have zero compassion or empathy. You can still have compelling villains and still have them show genuine concern or even affection for another person. One primary example from the Batman mythos being The Falcones(especially in the Long Halloween graphic novel).
"Have _you_ as my Right Hand? I'd sooner cut off my whole arm." Honestly surprised you didn't mention Kikimora when you brought up The Owl House, since she seems to follow the tropes even more closely than Hunter does for most of the story.
I think my fav "Villain-Dragon" dynamic from recent memory is Robotnik and Agent Stone from the sonic movies. It's not much, but it's quite refreshing because Robotnik pretends Stone is perfectly expendable and draws attention to how "weak" he is, but is blatantly dependent on him by virtue of the sheer convenience of having him around as well as the dominant social dynamic. Honestly a delightful change of pace as he seems to be getting more appreciative of Stone as time goes on, even if he'd never admit it, rather than the inevitable backstab other lackeys would get, that Knuckles got in the same movie for that matter.
It also has a couple different types of relationships especially in the sequel where Robotnik doesn't seem to have quite the same mindset. It's like in his isolation he's invented his own version of Agent Stone that the real Stone can't meet the new standard of (at least in a short time). He takes his minion's efforts quite for granted and gives even less positive feedback than he did in the first film. Stone, meanwhile, is clearly in love with his boss and is therefore fiercely loyal and willing to accept abuse and neglect as a result. The only reason I'd hesitate to apply this trope is that Stone doesn't actually do that much outside of grunt work. He's a minion that's ascended to right-hand by virtue of being Robotnik's only human associate.
@@BonaparteBardithion yeah that makes sense. What really sold it for me is the "I read the manual" moment. Not only because it genuinely surprised Robotnik, but it implies that a relative control freak robotnik shared a significant level of control and possibly a part of the original design process with his lackey.
Seeing the "mild and spicy"-image Red drew, it makes me think. What if the big bad and his dragon are twin brothers who wrestle every morning to determine, who-is-who for the day and have completely separate schemes from one another they work on their "turns"? Sounds like a very fun premise to me.^^
I think the reason that evil right hand men are called “The Dragon” might be because in older JRPGs, like Final Fantasy 4, the first major villain’s right hand guy is just literally straight up a dragon
Another villainous variation (though not always) is when the Left Hand Man is keeping the villain in check. Maybe they were their morale compass. Or they were the litteral key, while the villain had immense evil sealed inside them. ANd now, they're gone and the previously inept villain is going to destroy reality as we know it. Good Job. Or our heroes knows this before hand/learned it just before the final battle, and have to find another way to deal with the Big Bad. Maybe defeating it first. Maybe try to talk them out of whatever evil they were planning. Or just bonk them with a heavy object while we deal with the big bad, though that's less interesting.
Aroace me *continually* finding out that characters I just love for supporting each other and vibing so much actually have an unspoken romantic/sexual undertone I completely missed. Flirting is an alien language.
I think the reason it’s called the “Dragon and Villain” duo is because in a number of high fantasy fairy tails, it’s common for a villain to have a pet dragon. Idk, just a guess.
"And during the war, you served as Megatron's _what_ exactly?" "I've been his first officer, his lieutenant general, his air chief marshal... but mostly I've been his _whipping boy."_ "And how would you describe your relationship with the accused?" "I would describe it as _complicated."_
While Red's focusing on action-adventure, RHMs show up everywhere, and come in all sorts of flavors. A very common RHM function is to be the grounding force that keeps their boss on the rails. Either by direct action, or by serving as their voice of reason/moral guide post, often both. In many cases, that may actually be their primarcy role. Alfred and Jeeves are both very grounded, capable men who work for somebody who're one short step from a spectacular collapse. Also fun, it's quite common for them to also fall into at least one other classic pair trope.
Brock Samson is an example of such an effective right hand man, he winds up going off to do his own thing and leaving Rusty to find a less effective second in command in Sergeant Hatred.
A really great take on the trope is Link and Zelda's relationship in Breath of the Wild. In the gameplay of course, Link is the main character, and Zelda is the damsel in distress. But most of the story progression is in the flashbacks, and there Zelda's the one with all the agency and Link is her mute bodyguard.
An interesting take on this trope occurs in Fire Emblem: Three Houses with two of the house leaders, Dimitri and Edelgard, in which while Dedue serves the classic kind of dynamic to Dimitri after he was saved from a massacre in response to the Tragedy of Duscur, Hubert is more of the clever, scheming behind-the-scenes guy who devotes his loyalty as an advisor to Edelgard. While Edelgard is an intelligent tactician and skilled leader in her own right, she mainly does more of the outwards in the open "big guy" things like leading her troops into the battlefield, whereas Hubert is mainly a chessmaster who does more of the dirty, underhanded and clandestine stuff needed to realize Edelgard's goals. This contrast makes even more sense in gameplay, with Edelgard being an incredibly strong fighter in melee combat, while Hubert is the mage. As a result, Dimitri and Edelgard contrast each other not only in character, goals, beliefs, and ideals, but also in relation to their right-hand men.
Hubert is also doubly interesting here because he's both a heroic and villainous example based on what route you're on while still taking roughly the same actions in all four stories
@@waterwarrior1382 not only Hubert, but Edelgard as well ! She's the villain in three out of four routes, but in CF she's the hero and her characterisation doesn't change much, it's mainly a matter of circumstance and social circle, really, but even when she's the hero, she's a morally gray one since she knows she has to do bad things (start a war) to reach a good outcome (equity of chance and no religious oppression) while Hubert, despite having the same goals as her, leans a lot more into the "villain" characterisation even in this route by, according to his supports with Edelgard, doing some things behind her back, often cruel or bloody ones, so her hands stay clean. Yet at the same time, his supports with the other characters show that he's a good person at his core, kind and caring, though mischievous and teasing, but he has decided to be the most villainous of the group to protect everyone else, Edelgard first of all, and is enjoying the ride while Edelgard basically begs him to be his own person and find happiness outside of the pursuit of her own goals. It's very fun, really XD
Hubert might be one of my favorite characters in the game, at least in Black Eagles routes. It’s so fun to have a character that fits *every single* “generic evil” trope on the surface serving as one of your friends. Not to mention he’s got a surprising amount of depth.
@@wormrights883 Both of also have quite the contrast, too, as Hilda is a melee fighter and Claude specializes in ranged combat. Though Claude does have a laid-back and mischievous attitude, he has a more serious and pragmatic approach to solving problems, while Hilda is quite lazy and would rather take advantage of others to do what she wants.
I love the way our flag means death handled this dynamic with Izzy and Blackbeard. In the first few episodes, it looks like Izzy is the dragon and Blackbeard is the villain, but that gets quickly turned on it’s head when Blackbeard comes into the show and becomes Ed. Izzy, however, has such a sense of loyalty towards Blackbeard that when he no longer recognizes the man he used to serve he starts to break down. I’m not sure if his feelings toward Blackbeard could be considered love, as it is a very toxic relationship, but Izzy’s sick sense of loyalty to him goes beyond his position as second in command.
As evidenced by some Transformers continuities' _actual_ Starscream, tbh. They always want their evil promotion, yes, but they can also be decently qualified for the position they aspire to.
@@nataliaborys1554 Oh absolutely. Starscreams come in many flavors. From complete clown, to terrifyingly competent military commander to cheating Satan and getting away with it.
@@j-starchaser It always amuses me how Starscream has been handled differently over the years and mediums and stories. My personal favorite flavor is 'actually more competent than his boss, but too loyal to overthrow him.' in part for the inversion of expectations and in part because at some point said boss is going to be out of the picture for a while and the bad guys will then start winning. This ups the drama considerably in a fun manner.
Late to the party, but I love seeing the little nod to Gideon & Harrow at 3:40, even if they didn't get mentioned otherwise. The Locked Tomb books are filled to the brim with different variations of the Right-Hand Man trope. One Flesh, One End and all that.
I do wish you would cover it one of the classic right hand men. The Watson. It's so fundamental to the mystery genre to have someone to talk to, explain things to, and often to document the great detectives' exploits, that it is rare to see it subverted. For a time, Hercule Poirot got a new one every book
As Red said in her Minions trope talk, a villain's dynamic with their minions can reveal a lot about themself that their dynamic with the heroes can't. This absolutely applies to the right hand man. On a related note, I have not seen Minions: The Rise of Gru and do not plan to.
I love how the Big guy/Smart guy example art is very clearly Gideon and Harrow from the Locked Tomb series, absolutely incredible and a great example of a spicy protagonist boss/right hand relationship
Something I find delightful in the Castlevania games is that Dracula and Death have the villainous friendship variant of this going. One of the games even gives Death the description "Dracula's confidant", and while Dracula DOES use him as a power up once, it's purely because Death specifically told him to and wouldn't do lasting harm. It's just nice to see villains that genuinely like each other.
@@dreameater8548 that was easily one of the best boss fights in any of the games - better than Soma fighting chaos, better than a non-Belmont protagonist fighting a Belmont for whatever reason, better than any of the Death Boss battles… Just great
In Castlevania Judgement Death's motivation to help stop the time travel shenanigans is entirely to protect Dracula (since the one responsible is a minion of the demon Galamoth, who seeks to usurp him), whereas most of the cast is just concerned about preventing the world from being paradox'd out of existence. And his Story Mode ending is basically just the narrator going "Wow, these two horrible monsters of the night are, like, actually besties. How did that happen?"
Read and/or watch Ascendance of a Bookworm. The series is basically "oops, all right-hand mans". Every character has at least 2-3 right hand mans at minimum, even the higher right hand mans themselves. Its part of their culture, because everyone's so specialised and needs an individual person to do each and every task.
gods yes it is honestly ridiculous how many right hand men there are, but with so few jobs for nobles it also makes sense. Lord Geibe (sub-lord) Attendants Scholars Knights Knight commander Head of house. Priest [among the lowest of the jobs] thats basically it. AND within those there are only 2 jobs that don't technically report to another: Lord and Head of house.[Lord technically reports to the royals but thats another can of worms] With the class system in place the scholar/knight/attendant positions are often sub filled down the line as well. High nobles often have people reporting to/for them of low/med nobility. and med nobles can follow that with low nobles attending them. only well off low nobles can afford commoner attendants? Geibe directly report to the lord as does the knight commander attendants and scholars directly support many high ad med nobles, and those nobles often support the lords clan nobles. Knights can be assigned to either body guard or their province/the lord. aside from that the head of house technically doesn't report to the lord directly but the lord does have some sway and can command.
@@alexandersen1372 Thats not even counting the commoners system with the leherls. Benno has Mark, Mark has Lutz. Everyone has an assistant past a point.
@@dr.badguyreviews6785 exactly, i was just focusing on nobles due to the fact we see so much of them passed a certain point. (avoiding spoilers, you know the point)
@Alex Andersen Oh of course. The noble system gets so vastly fathomless past that point. It's hard keeping up with the fact that each character has up to or more than Rozemyne, and there are also at least 16 similar systems with the other duchies and we glimpse it through a narrow lens. I do get lost quite a bit, but its fantastically thorough.
@@dr.badguyreviews6785 yeah i've been trying to read ahead with google translate app on phone (got some raw scans, will buy when in english to support). it only gets better : )
Imagine how fire it would have been to have a dragon battle butler bodyguard thus being absolutely assured of having a warm (and potentially spicy) meal served to you presumably three times a day like a boss.
I was gonna type out something about how on some level, I think most people either want to be the dragon butler to a loving master or have a dragon butler to love, but your mention of spicy food just gave me the idea for a story where you have a bunch of badass dragon butlers all competing with eachother to win the affection of one master. All the battles are essentially like DBZ or Helsing, but when all is said an done, they just made a gorgeous curry or cake or something, a la Black Butler.
honestly this is so oddly specific at first I thought this wouldn't show up but then I remembered Sebas Tian from Overlord, who is a Dragonoid butler (who's powerful enough to be considered a battle butler/bodyguard)
“Explain this… oddly shaped artifact.” Lunch-maker “What?” Lunch-maker “…How?” [presents a photo demonstration] “DRAGON??… BLOWS?!…” Five minutes tops “Just… TAKE IT AWAY..” You already touched it. AFTER I WASHED IT. Master, we are cleared to depart. XD
3:45 I just wanna point out that interestingly in many chinese media the right hand man is often more a counselor or officer of some sort. A man able to coordinate or give advices. To hint at things so the main realises things or learn more. Or simply to make the power house main character reach full potential. Taking a bit of a teacher role. Else simply allowing the boss to go and be the action man while the right hand man covers the flank and holds the fort. Or in cases, solving problems before they become a problem. Its also an easy way to write off all the work needed to keep an army and letting the main character advance the plot. one of my favorite quotes is : An assasin might spend weeks of concentration, and months of preparation for the perfect assasination. But a counselor will always kill more then assasins can in their lifetimes. They can plot the deaths of 12 people in no time and ultimately choses their demise.
You know what could be interesting? If instead of the Dragon having a redemption arc, their boss joins the good guys first and leaves them behind, turning the Dragon into the new serious threat now that they're personally motivated by feelings of betrayal and no longer just a second in command. Also a fun way to implement this sub-trope is if the former Dragon showing up to terrorize the heroes causes them to realize that supporting character with a dark, mysterious past used to be one of the bad guys
That's pretty much how She-Ra and the Princesses of Power starts. Adora is a big bad to be, and Catra is her right hand. Adora realizes that she is one of the baddies and defects, leaving Catra behind. Catra is understandably upset about being betrayed by her best friend.
the VA of *Azula* also voiced *Delilah Briarwood* from "Legend of Vox Machina", who has an AMAZING dragon in her husband *Sylas Briarwood.* I don't know why, but I think that's oddly fitting, or perhaps karmic.
Wasn't Sylas the Dragon to Delilah since he was more the fighter ? If we take it more has a dynamic duo of evil and not classical underling-boss relationship.
@@somik-i3x Yes, Sylas was the dragon, since Delilah was the one who actually made the plans, and he clearly trusted her to make the best choices for them both, being as supportive as possible, in the twistedly wholesome way many good villanous partnerships are.
Generic Evil Apocalypse Cult? Boring. Someone willing to doom the world for true love and doing her damnedest (literally) to follow through on it? FAR more interesting, and it's one of the things I love about Legend of Vox Machina.
That last shot with the villain and the dragon in the middle of a fight has just given me a really *interesting* idea for a villain pair for an RPG... thank you for that!
Way off topic, but I am so happy to finally see clips from "The Owl House" in your work! When i saw the title, I had my hopes up for the Golden Guard to be featured, and ... *angelic choir*
15:30 One of my favorite conclusions to this development is when the Villain realizes that pursuing his goals would put the Dragon into too much danger (possibly fataly so), so he actually decides to give up his evil ambitions because the safety of the Dragon means more to him than that. Very heartwarming.
The Right Hand Man trope makes me think of Eve from No Straight Roads. I feel it's a worthy blueprint for Right Hand Men/Women worth discussing. Before she met Tatiana, her boss, she was a girl who clearly had... _issues._ She was desperate to find people who saw the world the way that she did. After her boyfriend left her when she illuminated his hair with bright lights (e.g. setting his hair on fire), she became afraid that there was no one that could. She began working to spread her own popularity as an artist. Tatiana took notice, and welcomed her into the No Straight Roads company. Eve and Tatiana demonstrate a 3d relationship throughout their appearances. According to Eve herself, Tatiana accepted her for who she was. But it's not a controlling relationship- she doesn't feel too uncomfortable to question Tatiana's orders when they hit personally. She even felt comfortable enough to bring her TV over to Tatiana's place to watch the news and understandably was miffed when her boss punches it after seeing the protagonists' success. It's a really weird example of a Right Hand Man. But what I think should be taken away from it is that there's a lot to be gained from the Right Hand Man or Woman being their own character with their own personality, wants, and history, especially if those contextualize why they have the relationship that they have with their boss.
That video game did a lot of things right, and I especially love the estranged dynamic between Zuke (a drummer who's surprisingly mellow and is rather subdued to fellow MC Mayday's guitar-wielding genki girl tendencies) and his brother, DK West. Spoilers for some plot stuff from the game: Whenever you confront DK West in 'No Straight Roads', it's through a series of rhythm-focused rap battles between Zuke and DK West that are sprinkled across the game, which reveals some backstory for the two siblings and how their current relationship is so bad. And while Zuke has a long fuse that takes a lot to set him off, West is the one of two people that really knows how to push his brother's buttons and gets some volume out of him. But after Zuke's berserk button is pressed, he goes after his brother's metaphorical throat during their first rap battle, and doesn't relent as Zuke unceremoniously disowns him in the final verse of the second rap battle, pointing out West's tendency to deflect blame, shirk all responsibility, and running away from his problems. The comment caught West off guard, and it's very clear that he's hurt by it, with said verse ultimately worsens their already estranged relationship. In the final Rap Battle (which is more "Rap Therapy"), it's clear the two siblings won't reach an understanding on their own, so Mayday dials it down a decibel (or 11) to become the voice of reason. Though she's not very good at rhyming, Mayday ultimately steps in to force Zuke and West to have a healthy one-on-one therapy session, rather than the two blaming each other for their faults. At the end of the song, Zuke softly borrows West's "ewah" catchphrase into the lyrics as a sign he's on the road to reconciliation with his older brother.
11:02 I am SO glad you included this scene from FMAB!! This has got to be one of my favorite scenes in the whole show and it shot Pride up to #1 in my all-time favorites. Because he’s *so close* to being the Undervalued Underling trope, except he’s desperately trying to look for reasons to still trust his Father. It’s so interesting, I could make an essay about his character.
Dragon: "Boss I'm your best friend right?"
Evil Boss: "Yes, Of course."
Dragon: "And we are the baddies right?"
Evil Boss: "Yes, Of course. Why are you asking?"
Dragon: "Oh Good. Those heroes were monologuing that bad guys can't know the Power of Friendship."
Evil Boss: "Sad that their world view is so small. That will change after we rule the world."
LOVED THIS
Brilliant, you are so smart🥳
May I take this conversation for something? It fits perfectly for a story I have in my mind.
Villainous Power of Friendship is tragically underused in media. I'd like to plug Erratic Errata's _Practical Guide to Evil_ as a very good story where the villains have just as much Trope Power as the heroes. As well as being a Villain Protagonist story.
@@grayanddevpdx Go right ahead
Azula’s spiral is also kicked off by the betrayal of HER right hand women. Mai betraying her to save Zuko, and Ty Lee betraying her to save Mai. This rocks her foundation so much that when her father leaves her behind, her mind shatters as she starts seeing treachery EVERYWHERE, because if Mai and Ty Lee- the only real friends she’s ever had- would betray her, then ANYONE could betray her.
@UCoO3hmqEp0b0wIR_oHBrDIA Azula already betrayed Zuko, and was a sociopath to begin with. She had abused Zuko his whole life, and after being scarred and sent away on a mission that at the time seemed impossible task, she became even more cruel.
The betrayal they mentioned was simply her friends being moral. For instance, the uncle that she hated, she simply hated because he didn't want to commit genocide anymore.
Oh, and her father just had all of his powers taken away and their Chinese Nazi empire was knocked down.
@@LegendStormcrow bro she was 14 and also being abused, have some compassion
@@LegendStormcrow Actually, the Fire Nation is mainly model after Japan and not China. This starts with visual references like Zuko's hairstyle at the beginning or the armor they used but also includes things like how they sit and how honor and duty is very important to them. During the Second World War, Japan behaved a lot like the Fire Nation with very aggressiv campaigns to conquer terretories on the Asian mainland. In that sense, Avatar is suprisingly historically accurate.
@@cheyannegiles9772 Being to compassionate to sociopaths is a great way to end up abused. It's great to recognize that Azula's circumstances aren't really her fault, but in all practicality she's still an immoral monster that's implied to have killed A lot of people.. Her story is tragic, but pitying her would only lead to her making a tragedy of other people's lifes as well.
@@LegendStormcrow In which case it's important to remember that even that was kicked off by how her mother and father treated her versus Zuko. The mother was literally forced to marry Ozai, which makes them S assault babies. The mom doted on Zuko for being a more gentle soul but almost entirely shunned Azula. Even admitted that Azula scared her sometimes (most likely because of how similar she was to Ozai). Meanwhile the father and grandfather praised her fighting abilities and cruelty. She even knew about her father's plot to kill the Fire Lord and her mom's plans to escape with Zuko only. Though Zuko also went through the trauma of one parent loving you while the other hates you, Zuko was eventually able to come to terms with that when coming to terms with his father's cruelty. However Azula could not come to terms with her mother's abandonment of her for being a monster. This is further made worse when her friends abandon her for a similar reason and then her father, the only one that praised the monster she was the final straw to her sanity.
"We good?"
"you tell me, boss"
I can feel the fanfiction already forming and these are stick figures
I do love my self some snarky villains
Stickmen can have some really great storytelling. Gildedguy and Umbrella are amazing examples
@@HK-07 I don't see many people make reference to any of the RHGs outside the community. This is pleasant to see
Dude, if people can ship Jack Frost and Elsa or Hiccup and Merida ((Basically DreamWorks & Disney)) over similar powers or archs *despite all the established relationships/thoughts on romance?* then fan fics can be written over trope talks stick figures. XD
someone make this fic please i need it
My favorite version of the dragon ascending trope is when the dragon feels that the villain has lost sight of their original evil goal and usurps them.
...or the Dragon dispatches the Villain and takes over after tiring of the Villain's incompetence and/or finally deciding that he, the Dragon, can do a better job as the Villain, a decision which may or may not be spurred by the Dragon coming into some empowering new revelation, insight, ability or plot device.
Case in point: Benedict (superbly played by Charles Dance, BTW) killing Tony Vivaldi and taking his place in 'The Last Action Hero'.
@@BloodyBay *cough cough* Transformers Prime Starscream *cough cough*
@@doo_lissdu_lighost6133 ...cough cough Starscream has cough cough his own trope cough cough cough cough...
I know a version of the dragon ascendant where the dragon is doing most of the heavy lifting (going after the heroes, grabbing the macguffin etc.) but the boss and other cronies think he's a flop. Then the dragon gets the macguffin, gains a powerup and finds out the boss plans to knock him off to get it. So, he tells off the bosses and proceeds to waste the lot of them.
This happens in real empires all the time lol.
My favorite variant of this trope is “The Secretary”. While the boss is the one doing all the cool flashy big picture stuff, the Secretary is the one working behind the scenes, handling the logistics of the boss’ plans and cleaning up any messes the boss may have left behind both metaphorically and literally.
These ones are great to explore because they clearly have a much higher bullshit tolerance than most and it’s interesting to find out why these people are working themselves to the bone just to ensure the boss can go forward with their plan unimpeded.
It’s especially fun when it turns out these guys who we thought were purely desk workers are actually incredibly capable in a fight but only resort to that when all other options are exhausted.
Also they are always a good set up for any workaholism jokes.
Examples: Ms. Pauline from Team Fortress 2, Owen from Gargoyles and Smithers from The Simpsons.
Avatar - Legend of Kora "Zhu Li, do the thing!"
Also Juno from Bojack Horseman.
Eudokia (Scribe) from Practical Guide to Evil fits this to near a tee.
James Wesley from Daredevil
Payday's Bain. Even though the payday gang are the protagonists, that doesn't mean they aren't actually robbing and killing
I love how Starscream has become his own trope. He's treacherous and self-serving and it basically flips the idea of the groveling subservient role he pretends to be.
As the quote goes: "I've always got Megatron's back... In my sights"
I laughed so hard when she cited him as the label for the trope. It's priceless.
I was a little disappointed that she didn't go right into Soundwave as an actual Dragon (Megatron doesn't need one most of the time, but when he does, Soundwave steps into the role) but it's hard to be disappointed when Vader shows up.
Later in the video, it becomes apparent she was saving Sondwave for another point.
@@boobah5643 Shockwave often also fits, though he tends to have his own agenda just as often, while Soundwave is traditionally the most loyal of Megatron's lieutenants
@@theshig9618 man that exact scene is the reason why he is my favorite
I’m so glad this video didn’t come out like, 5 years ago because this comment section would have been FILLED with Hamilton references
*inhales*
well, in that case, You know you gotta get ya right-hand man back.
@@eamonwelch5497 *exhales*
Bold of you to assume it won’t be filled today
Actually the song popped in my head as soon as I saw the title
Some of these slides are truly excellent. "We good?" "You tell me, boss" and CRIME *fistbump* are just plain fun
Crime fistbump would make a great mug
The eyebrows are magnificent
The "You tell me, boss" line is so frickin' perfect it's almost astonishing. There are so many layers of snark subtly woven into those four words. "You're the boss, Boss; if you say we're good, we're good." "I don't know, Boss; are we?" "I refuse to answer that question, but by all means, let me know what you think, Boss."
I need "CRIME _fistbump_ " as a t-shirt
@@fallingstar9643 I was reading it as more “Come on, boss. Are we ever good?”
Hawkeye and Mustang competitively trying to sacrifice themselves for each other was so endearing. When the mcu did the same thing for a scene with a character named hawkeye, I couldn't help but chuckle
One of the reasons I love that couple. Royai is my ultimate OTP.
red delivering the line "it's probably a natural consequence of spending so much time and energy protecting someone. you either fall in love with them or you eventually kill them yourself" completely straight, like it's a circumstance your average person would run into all the time, made me snort laughing.
Isn't that a quote from Han Solo from the first Star Wars film?
seriously lol
Parents
I think a Trope Talk: Dynamic Duos would be interesting.
(Sonic and Tails, Batman and Robin, Mario and Luigi, etc...)
They could mention the origin being the story of the red ogre and the blue ogre
But that’s literally just this video.
There is only two, no more, no less.
@@superbproductions7193 i think its more of a sub-trope to this topic, a right-hand man is slightly different from a side-kick
I would love to see something about partners in crime
Red's discussion of the bodyguard tropes in the media adds to how intriguing they already are.
Also, props to Red for being able to resist the urge to use only Fullmetal Alchemist examples cause it's harder than it seems.
for real, it might be because im totally obsessed with fullmetal alchemist OR because it just has many great examples & character dynamics
either way i love it
It's like the redemption arc challenge without mentioning Zuko. It is impossible.
Like almost every main character is in a right hand man duo.
@@spectralsupernova77 and i eat it up every time
@@baconator_x4098 Entertainingly enough, you could do a fantastic redemption arc video about Scar.
On the topic of the "Dragon" name being weird, it's just a classic case of definition drift. TVtropes originally had the term mean a major physical threat the protags would have to go through to reach the (often less mighty in terms of raw power) big bad. So it was called that because it would and could often be just some kind of giant monster (not always, though, see Vader for instance). But then, with time and people trying to shoehorn their favorite shows into every page, the definition went from that to a less specific "the second to last boss" to "the big bad's second-in-command".
So yeah, like in most languages the name makes no sense because the sense went away over time.
Oh I thought it was in the sense like fairytale? The evil witch that has the princes captured and guarded by a dragon
Therefore, anyone who works directly under the villain (the witch) and is also stupid powerful enough to be the second to last battle before the heroes win could be the 'dragon' of the story
Interesting to know
I am probably wrong on this, but Eragon also might have helped with that idea. Eragon and his dragon fit the right hand man trope, and they face down a bad guy who then makes a dragon to challenge that. Then we get an end credits scene where the true villain is shown and reveals that he too trusts in a dragon first to help him.
@@Somehowstillkicking No, you do have a point there.
Another likely factor in that is the way stories change over time, so a trend in fiction from a decade ago might be almost irrelevant now, such that it's worth either changing the term to be more specific and/or understandable (see: the Boistrous Bruiser trope, formerly referred to as The Toblerone) or broadening the definition so it becomes relevant again.
As an aromantic, this trope has always been a favorite of mine, because it is one of the rare times that you will see a platonic relationship that is seen as the paramount relationship of someone's life. And when they are asymmetrically romantic (specifically righthand man to boss), the platonic righthand-man element of the relationship is often seen as more important than the crush.
I feel this as well, its one of the few tropes where the relationship dynamic is more then just "oh they looked at each other for two seconds then kiss for literally no reason"
I guess this is also why I like rivalries and sibling like dynamics as well
Heroes:
BBEG: "YOU HURT MY KITTEN!!"
The dragon: 8' tall 20' long sentient chimera lion that the boss raised from 8 weeks of age, after finding it in the rubble of his own trauma-forming event
Better start running heroes
Red Velvet Cookie be like
Bbeg is John wick lol
"NO! My babies! My precious poopsies..."
I suddenly had to think of Star Wars Return of the Jedi after Luke manages to kill the Rancor. Next thing you see a guy who is heartbroken and in tears when he discovers the Rancor being dead and its kind a tragic actually.
What’s cool is having a bunch of dragons with one boss.Using FMA, Mustang is loyal and caring to all of his colleagues no matter how expendable the seem. With the hommonculi, some are blindly loyal, some want to usurp, and some (Greed) want to completely revolt. Also, mark FMA off your bingo cards folks.
... And AtlA, or course
Kinda dubious, frankly. The Right-hand Man/Dragon is defined as, well _the_ Right-hand Man. The Boss can have many underlings, but just by the laws of probability, one is likely to be more valued than the rest. My boy Roy has a bunch of people under his direct command and relies on all of them greatly, but Riza is still the Right-hand Man, the one who basically saves his life like every other day. Homonculus/Father again has his 7 sins, but probably wouldn't put forth Gluttony, or Greed, or Sloth as his final challenge to Ed et al. It'd be Pride. There's almost always the one who's the best mix of loyal, dependable, and badass, and the Right-hand Man/Dragon.
Honestly, I was expecting Reboot to be talked about. But since I've never really watched it, I have no idea if a right-hand-man trope is there
Edit: although I guess if there's a lot of action, no doubt someone will have a right-hand-man
Potential Trope Talk: The Last of their Kind.
So many ways to approach this topic. From the noble hero that represents ideals long gone and a morality that is implied to be dying in the modern era, to the evil of the past coming back to an unprepared era, to even honest conversations about the evils of the past decimating entire civilizations and the preservation of culture such as protecting isolated people like the North Sentinelese.
Characters that this could apply to
Aang (Avatar the Last Air Bender)
Optimus Prime
Scar (FMA)
Conan the Barbarian
Red Sonja
Elric of Melnibone
Gamora (MCU)
Thanos (MCU & comics)
Geralt of Rivia
Edit: Below, in the replies, you will find many more examples but here are a few more I've remembered.
Megatron
Daenerys Targaryen
Dracula (several iterations)
Ra's Al Ghul
Vandal Savage
Ganondorf
Spear & Fang (Gendy Tartakovsky's Primal)
Josey Wales
The remaining Tarnished in Elden Ring
The player character in either Dark Souls or Bloodborne\
Link and/or Zelda in some timelines
The Predacons (Transformers Prime)
and finally... Aragorn, son of Arathorn
And the Doctor from Doctor Who
Dragon Ball Z also fits
Superman and Martian Manhunter fit this too
kinda fits: steven universe
@@lettersviastars How?
“several love interests, a treatise on codependency, and the trope of the right-hand man” all right Red, no need to eviscerate like 75% of my favourite ships in one sentence 😅
You just got called out-
"Giving a villain a kid to take care off is one of the tradition fast tracks to redemption arcs"
Arcane: hold my beer
God of War 2018
A Certain Magical Index
@@s.p.d.magentaranger1822 "BOI"
@@s.p.d.magentaranger1822 Kratos was never a Villian though, he was morally bad but never villainous
It's maybe 60/40; in kid-friendly stuff yeah it's usually a redemption flag, but once you get up there age-wise you start getting into the classics like "mold them in my own image" or "unhealthy relationship".
I'm a simple gal, I see Roy Mustang and Riza Hawkeye on the thumbnail, I click.
They're my favorite anime pair of all time. And the fact that the author didn't push the romance subplot between them too hard is part of why I love them. They never got together romantically because they got bigger fish to fry than settling down and start a family, but they're together in their own way.
Word of god is the only reason why they are not married is military regulations
In a way, Hawkeye and Mustang’s relationship is closer and more personal than a married couple. Similar to Shinobu and Araragi.
@@connorgrynol9021 Some day i will watch monogatari. This one, however, not that day.
The thumbnail with Hawkeye and Mustang is definitely the reason I clicked on this video.
I love the sophistiquote men in black
"It's well documented that while individual people are pretty smart, groups of people are pretty stupid because the pressure of the group makes it artificially difficult for the members of the group their own judgement to decide what they should actually do" - "a person is smart, people are dumb, panicky animals and you know it!"
That is EXACTLY what was going through my head during that part of the video!
Literally what I thought of
I read this exactly as i heard it in the video lol
Shego's and Drakken's relationship was definitely a big reason why they were the most popular villains of Kim Possible. The snarky and hypercompetent minion always undercutting her brilliant, but idiotic boss and yet sticking with him (except for the movie) was always fun to watch.
A good guy example of right-hand man I really enjoyed was Carrot for Vimes from Diskworld. Carrot helped Vimes rebuild his desire to be a proper guard and loyally followed Vimes through thick and thin. One moment I really liked was when Angua (the girl he had a crush on) started dissing Vimes and Carrot promptly shut her down refusing to allow even his crush to criticize Vimes unjustly.
Carrot fills a lot of roles on the disc some more surprising than others, even Vetinari respects Carrot and understands that Carrot has a lot more going on upstairs than he let's others see. Carrot could be a King, Emperor even, he could be a Folk or "Super" Hero, instead he very deliberately chooses to be a public servant even after he learns what his actual genealogy most likely is.
@@jlokison Really, given the way the (disc)world works, that "even after" reads more like an "ESPECIALLY after." Carrot's dedication to Protect and Serve his people fills out his literary role in a way far more appropriate to his genealogy than any of the legal titles he could claim. Heck, because narrative themes (speaking broadly and simply: Tropes) are king in Discworld, having the intelligence to subvert them (or even play them straight) to your own benefit is what makes a Pratchett protagonist.
It's turtles all the way down on this. Ag is, well, a LOT more than a crush, and basically becomes Carrot's RH. Then, she gets her own vampire RH, who fully accepts that Ag is top dog, and that Carrot belongs to her (or, the other way around).
'YOU THINK YOU'RE ALL THAT KIM POSSIBLE! BUT YOU're not...'
Carrot is a fantastic character, and I wish more series had characters like him.
Salazar: I'm sending my right hand to deal with you.
Leon: Your right hand comes off?
There it is
Honestly, given the franchise's history of body horror, Leon's question actually turning out to have been correct would not have been that odd...
Even if it was just him wisecracking at Salazar.
Classic
Oh Leon 🖤
Its Resident Evil. Leon prob WAS EXPECTING his hand to come off
Arguably chess is has the truest right hand man: the queen (the powerhouse bodyguard) and the king (leadership).
It’s also why the right hand man is the #1 origin of villains: the Jafar/Sultan, Viren in Dragon Prince, etc
Disney's Jafar was an advisor, not The Dragon (the person that could possibly fit that role would be Razoul except that his loyalty to the sultan is highly questionable at best and the Sultan doesn't actively have him do much, removing him as a candidate for the role).
It's even rather ambiguous if anyone really knew about Jafar's particular strengths in magic arts, so he couldn't be The Dragon as there is no setup or evidence for that relationship.
@@JarieSuicune -- The Sultan wasn't the villian, so Jafar wasn't the Dragon. Jafar *was* a right hand man to some extent, and left that position to become the villian.
For the last time I am not a villain. I want the cheese and smoke mimosa by the pound. Those Villagers got in my way. It is also why I sold weapons to the rebellion. If the Queen is gone. I would have enough wealth for my BI harem.
Viren is an interesting one... because he is an Ascended Dragon who himself has a dragon.. one that ultimately serves to betray Viren himself, which was always their purpose.
I actually really like that about Aaravos. And it's something I've put in my D&D games a lot: a BBEG who has a Dragon serving them, but who always used the BBEG for their own purposes without the BBEG knowing it.
@@sandrols7 That sounds like Aaravos is toeing the line of being a Starscream… except, y’know, he’s actually competent. Actually, wasn’t Starscream a pretty credible threat in the early Transformers series? I remember when the focus of the show was the minicons, Starscream was a pretty important character. So much so that his heel/face turn to the Autobots, then return to the Decepticons were both pretty serious shake ups. Of course, I could be misremembering. Starscream’s been a meme as a failure of a dragon for so long, I don’t know when it started.
Catra and Scorpia have one of my favourite story lines. Catra knows how much Scorpia cares about her but after the ‘betrayal’ of Adora she’s afraid to care about anyone. Even so, Scorpia leaving absolutely destroys Catra. Catra reminds me a lot of Zuko in her character
"It's you. You drive them away, wildcat."
Ngl I hated Catra so I saw it as karmic punishment.
She’s too afraid to care, yet it’s that lack of care that pushes Scorpia away and eventually results in her leaving too.
About the bodyguard - badass, I think it's missing the "leash" dynamic: when the right hand is there to keep the badass from going off the rails and probably curbstomping the opponent's side when the right hand is out of commission
A fair point but i think thats rarer in this trope and more a factor in stories with different character dynamic. Like I wouldn’t say Kagome and Inuyasha are right-hand man duos
Strangely, GLaDOS and Wheatley from Portal 2 fit this dynamic.
I was thinking about FMA actually, in those situations where Mustang acts out of emotion and Hawkeye needs to snap him back to reason
I honestly thought you mean like, twist reveal! The right-hand man was actually stronger than the villain and with the villain gone they're completely on the loose! Kinda like the backstab Red talked about but specifically that the villain was trying to hold the right hand back
The first two I thought about when reading this was Marik and Odeon from Yu-Gi-Oh!, where Odeons' presence is enough to keep Mariks' evil-er personality at bay.
If there's anything the sith stories in SWtOR taught me, is that it's so satisfying to play the dragon only to completely obliterate your manipulative, abusive, or underappreciative boss. Especially for inquisitor, cause you could get so close to believing she actually cares, though warrior really captures the sting of the boss finding you replaceable. Don't even get me started on how you can then form villain-dragon relationships with your underlings and either perpetuate the abuse or learn from it.
In truth, I would consume so many stories featuring a dragon as protagonist, if I could just find them. Villainous protagonists are just generally juicier that straight-up heroes.
Well, I know one story that has a villainous protagonist aptly named "How to live as a villain". The plot is that people are transported into another world, where the winner of the game could become a new god. And our protagonist will use every dirty trick in the book to try and survive this game where people can easily die. Of course, I'll warn you that it's not a novel but a manga(or something similar to a manga), so if you prefer reading words instead of pictures with words, it might not be for you.
One of the things I love about warrior is that you can treat your apprentice exactly how Darth Baras treats you. Its a cycle of hate and abuse that really fits into the whole Sith Lore
Not sure if this has any legitimacy, but the Dragon being a counterpart to the Lancer makes sense when you consider Dragons being defeated by lance wielding heroes. Essentially, the Dragon is the villain to the guy wielding the lance, aka the Lancer.
So glad to see the Mustang-Hawkeye relationship here. Riza makes him, and the whole crew and the show overall so much stronger
Aye, a good few characters might've died at very points if it wasn't for Hawkeye, and Mustang wouldn't have his greatest morality anchor.
While I'm largely ambivalent about the show as a whole, Star Wars: The Clone Wars did an excellent job of building up this trope. Throughout the show, the relationship between Jedi and the individual Clone Troopers under their command is built up and explored. Captain Rex is 100% Anakin's right-hand man, and Ahsoka's too before she leaves the Jedi. Time and time again, the Jedi encourage the clones' individuality (most of them, anyway), and in return are granted complete loyalty....up until Order 66. And then it all goes out the window. Bodyguard betrayal on a galactic scale. With one main exception: Rex. Rex remains loyal to who Anakin *was* instead of who he *becomes* and manages to get out of following the order with Ahsoka's help.
Having just binged the entirety of the Trope Talks library & waiting for more, I am inclined to quote Sir Christopher Lee’s Count Dooku:
I’ve been looking forward to this
Fun fact, Christopher Lee made ROTS infinitely better by sharing his war experiences to George Lucas. Originally Dooku was going to confess that Palpatine was Sidious and that’s when Anakin would find out, but Lee told Lucas that in his experience men don’t confess right before they know they’re going to be executed. So Lucas re-wrote the movie, which really added to Anakin’s emotional angst when his oaths to the Jedi and to protect the republic and the innocents within really started to conflict.
Careful, Red's view count has doubled since you last met.
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi good. Twice the views double the ad revenue.
To quote Christopher lee's other famous and betrayed right hand man:
So you have chosen, death
If you can, I would love to see a Trope Talk on "body swapping" but with a twist...
I want the episode to be hosted by Blue who is, for whatever reason, acting a lot like Red.
Have "Red" show up, as well, acting a suspicious amount like Blue. Probably be funniest if they write each other's scripts, to make it feel as natural as possible.
@@elijahpadilla5083 If they're going to do that, a trick that can help is to write the other's scripts and then record a delivery for the other to imitate. You would think the flaws in their replication would be a problem, but their genuine inability to perfectly mimic the other does the job of 'somethings not quite right here' better than anything else in my experience.
PLEASE that would be hilarious
That's an amazing idea. Also good for april's fools
I'd be laughing so hard throughout that whole video 🤣🤣🤣
I was expecting Star Wars, ATLA, and FMA:B in this trope talk. I was NOT READY for clips from The Owl House’s Hollow Mind
That hit me like a truck. I'm still not over that episode.
No one is ever ready for Hollow Mind.
@@Sonar009 i got my sister to watch owl house. she couldn't understand why i hyped hollow mind up so much. then i got a text from her going "oh. oh no."
yeah. no one is ever ready for hollow mind.
Hollow Mind is pretty much peak Villain-Betrays-Dragon. That episode hits so hard, even when we all knew.
Right? I saw them coming, but NOT poor Hunter lmao.
One twist on this trope I really like is one that the Wolfenstein games seem to be fond of, that is, you have a villain and their dragon caring for each other, but it doesn't redeem them in the slightest. In The New Order, General Engel watches you kill her beloved boytoy, and frankly, it just makes her seem somehow less humane, since she's obviously capable of feeling but somehow actively has chosen to not only not care about a majority of humanity, but to actively hate it.
Similarly, in The Old Blood, Sturmbannführer Jäger shows incredible empathy towards his dogs, but has no love for any human being, it seems. After you kill his favorite dog, Greta, he actually screams at you that she had no evil in her body and that, as an Untermensch, you are of incapable of understanding loving another living being.
I like this twist on the formula, especially since the trope so often is used to make us sympathize with people who, in turn, only show sympathy in very specific circumstances. It's almost cathartic to have them called out on their bullshit like this.
That's a thought I've had for a while. I often see people saying things along the lines of "this villain wasn't totally evil, they cared about * insert person here *."
And my thoughts have been much the same as yours: so why don't they care about anyone else?
Villains who get outraged when anyone dares strike back at their servants are so incredibly hypocritical that it makes them easily more hateable.
It’s complete satire on the trope
I think, this should be a named trope of it's own. Blofeld and his cat come to mind or the famous "even Hitler loved his dogs."
example from a different game, Handsome Jack. Angel is arguably his dragon in the first game and the first portion of the 2nd, he clearly cares, and yet his caring is used to arguably make him more of a monster
@@zoro115-s6b One take on this (in combination with villain-origin-story) is from Shadow and Bone. In the scene where the wife of the (soon to be) main-villain is killed, we seem to be expected to sympathize with him, because he very clearly is upset about loosing her. But I had the feeling that he didn't get upset because the woman he loved had been killed, but because HIS wife had been taken away from HIM. He had every chance to save her, but he insisted on turning them down, because he knew, he himself would not be harmed and it didn't occure to him, that this did not apply to his wife, because he saw her more as part of himself, than another human being. He got his power-up to take revenge just after she had died - it was because of HIS pain, not because of his wish to keep her save. So these instances of "villain caring about very specific people (or things)" is more a sign of their egoism - they only care about who or what they feel attached to or even extremer - who or what they regard as THEIRS.
9:38 One REALLY interesting 'reversal' of the whole 'Bodyguard Betrayal' trope I've seen is when its the once-heroic BOSS who's spiraled into a full-blown villain-turn, but is also dragging the still-very-heroic RHM along and still expecting their unquestioning loyalty. Which of course leaves the RHM in an EXTREMELY awkward position of choosing between their loyalty and what they know is right. Either way this goes can be give some intense character drama and very spicy twists. Maybe the RHM takes the 'My Master Right or Wrong' approach and our heroes are forced to fight a former friend who they KNOW is an entirely good person for lots of tragedy points. Or the RHM does choose morals over loyalty and turns on their boss, which among other things can lead to a VERY tragic showdown between these two once-close comrades.
I like a twist even further on this that the right hand man knows their boss is spiralling further and further, and is actively trying to stop it by engaging the heroes in their stead.
And if the right hand man is beaten by the heroes, you can show just why the RHM fought the heroes, and how far their once heroic boss has fallen.
Isn't that literally Odion and Marik's dynamic in Yu-Gi-Oh?
@@kylajensen1957 Kinda, though the punch is taken out of it by Marik already being evil by the time he's properly introduced to the heroes/audience. The example I was thinking is one where both Boss and Bodyguard START on the side of the heroes, but the Boss ends up spiraling into a villain-turn and trying to take their loyal but still entirely heroic RHM along with them.
I agree so much
An interesting thread from this that could make for another trope talk is "Even Villains have loved ones". The villain can be a psychopathic piece of shit but they are seen in a different light if they have a pet or a family member they care about. Not an outright henchman but perhaps a cat they can stroke, showing that they aren't completely dead inside
Honestly I feel like the "villain petting a cat" thing comes from the place of "Of course *a villain* would like them, they are evil and creepy and horrible" rather than the villain having a soft spot. They wouldn't let a villain pet a dog, even less a puppy. Luckily many people are letting go off some of their misconseptions, but I still see commonly people say "Of course my cat hates me, they are incabable of love"
@@NukkuiskoHyvinVaiPois After my dad died, his cat would run to the door when a car pulled up and then slink away when it wasn't him. She would dig in his bedclothes looking for him. Cats are most certainly capable of love.
I’ve been watching all the old bond movies (odd activities of a disabled writer) and Blofeld’s cat has been such a weird thing to watch, because even though he’s constantly petting it, it doesn’t feel affectionate. I don’t think it ever even gets named. Also bond literally kicks it at one point and Blofeld barely reacts. How that wasn’t a “kick the dog moment” for Bond, I’ll never understand.
But yeah, the values dissonance watching those movies has been a RIDE. Also hilarious *special effects failures * have given me lots of hearty laughter
@@NukkuiskoHyvinVaiPois I've been reading a webcomic which does indeed give the villain a dog (comic's called Jungle Juice and like... R-level violence etc, so forewarned/forearmed etc.) and honestly? Seeing this guy who manipulates/controls others to the point they become monsters with a *golden retriever* is EXTREME values dissonance and makes everything creepier.
We don't gnaw on our kitty
"The Dragon" as trope name originates in Joseph Campbell's "The Hero Of A Thousand Faces", which compares various fantasy heroes. In folklore, the hero will often fight an *actual* dragon before confronting the intelligent but physically weaker Big Bad. Hence, dragons (or stand-ins for them) are often portrayed as a Big Bad's second-in-command.
Are there any examples of this besides Fafnir? Most mythological (and not only) dragons I know are much more like the ultimate Big Bad
@Axtwyt Starkiller it's called Ceto, but I guess that can work too. Although I would say that in stories about hero sent by an evil king to defeat some beast, the said beast is actually the main challenge and the main antagonist for the hero, and the defeat of an evil king is mostly glossed over
I think there's dragon in Beowulf too?... Tho Grendel and Grendel's mother fits the right hand man to an extent
Thank you! I thought for sure this might be the case, and was wracking my brain trying to remember. Really didn't want to go find the book to page through for confirmation.
When Red covered the broader dragon trope she mentioned that in Greek the word doesn't describe any particular creature so any fearsome beast is a dragon.
Now I want to see an evil dragon villain right hand man dynamic where the villain is super paranoid that the dragon will betray them specifically because there the villain's strongest asset. But the dragon is just super in love with the villain and is just awkward and nervous and terrible at showing their feelings.
I'm imagining something like, the dragon is always sneaking looks at the villain or stalking them like what Hollywood thinks is romantic but is actually still creepy. The villain notices this and thinks it's threatening but knows they can't take the dragon or afford to stop working with them so they give more and more rewards to the dragon as a "don't betray be bribe" while at the same time trying to make better plans attempting to maintain a strong image. This in turn confuses the dragon because they think the rewards are romantic gifts but they see no change in how the villain acts towards them, so the dragon stalks them some more to try and understand the villain's feelings. But at the same time the dragon is invigorated by the positive reinforcement and works harder to fulfill the villains plans, which scares the boss more because now the dragon is both stronger and stalking them more. And it just becomes a lope of them getting stronger and more awkward around each other.
I don't know what the heroes will think about this, but they'll definitely see this villain dragon duo as a serious threat that grows in power just as much as the heroes.
I’m certain this exists in a fantasy anime and I cannot think of it’s name :/
I can't think of an example I've seen of this exact dynamic but now I very much want to see it happen in something. This is good stuff. I love a good feedback loop.
@@thesquishedelf1301 lol, weirdly familiar.
I wanted to say Overlord, but Ainz doesn't seem being sus to his underlings, so not quite match up the trope
Kinda sounds like Voldermort and Bellatrix. A little. I think if time went on he would have turned on Bellatrix too just like Snape. And Lucious.
@@valhatan3907 That's what I was thinking, but but the crux of my proposal is the villain not knowing knowing the dragon's feelings. Albedo and Shalltear have made there thirst quite clear. I guess the whole Demiurge master planning for Ainz is a little closer, but still not quite the spicy relationship I'm looking for.
This vid made me realize why I love Castlevania’s Isaak: He’s a dragon that lost his master. It’s a very interesting twist, especially given that Dracula saved his life, so now Isaak has to find a new motivation. It’s also a stark contrast to basically all of Dracula’s court who betray him in some way or form, especially Carmilla (but I mean… we all knew she was gonna betray him the second she stepped into the room).
Castlevania plays with this trope a lot after season 2, especially with Carmilla.
Yep he's a Dragon in every fashion. Except 1
Dracula makes Issac look harmless in Comparison. He honestly doesn't need Issac for anything other than his armies.
But eh
@@Firestorm422 Honestly, I don’t think Issac was even there to make the armies. It seemed more like Dracula had him there to be a friend to talk to in his grief. Too bad Issac never figured that out.
I've always been a fan of the idea of the bad guy and dragon being in love, or other such relationship, and if one dies than it triggers a grief induced powerup for the survivor that makes them WAAAAAAAAAY more dangerous than they were previously.
One of my favorite examples is an old ps2 games called shadow hearts: from the new world, where there's a villain/sidekick duo named Lady and killer (ya, not very original, I know). Lady is literally an emotionless husk of her former self, but she brought killer back from near death and so he feels obligated to defend her from they party because she saved his life. At the end of the game, he dies to the party in a way that she can't revive him (seemingly at the time) and she flies off the handle in an emotion fueled rage, the only emotion she'd showed through the entire game. It was pretty sad, and you genuinely feel sorry for her at that moment.
Yes!!!! I love the idea of a bad guy and their #2 falling in love. It's always sweet to me to imagine a villain having someone they genuinely care about, how even the coldest of hearts can have a warm spot. And I like the idea of a couple that can be evil together.
It's reasons like this that I unironically ship Mr. Burns and Smithers from The Simpsons. XD
Or they only become villains in the first place because one of them died and the other one took on the help of some eldritch being to bring them back...
"Sylas.. I broke the world for us!"
They don’t even have to be romantically involved.
“Stop? You want me to stop? You think I have the luxury to stop? You cut my sister down like a god damn animal and you want me to stop?! No one stops! It’s to late to stop! No one STOPS!!!”
There's also an interesting sub variant of the Dragon Ascendant trope in which the main villain goes through a reception arc and abandons their evil scheme(s), only to be backstabbed and replaced by their Dragon, who it turns out was way more committed to the whole evil thing. This has the benefit of making the final villain someone that the hero(es) already have a history with, but risks disappointing the audience if they were hoping for a showdown with the original villain. It's also a pretty handy trope in games, as it can allow the player to successfully diplomance the main villain into submission without sacrificing the exciting boss fight.
Infinity Train Book 3 executes this masterfully.
That’s pretty much what would’ve happened in Arcane, if Silco hadn’t been killed by Jinx. Sevika was loyal to the cause. When Vander wasn’t pushing the cause forward, she went to Silco. Silco would’ve given up the cause to protect Jinx, so it was easy to expect Sevika to leave Silco for someone new. The only difference between what you said and Arcane is that Sevika isn’t a leader, and she knows it better than anyone. She doesn’t have the vision for it. So she wouldn’t take over herself, but support someone else.
Or sometimes the second in command is just WAY more extreme in his beliefs than the main villain. Like the villain goes "I want to conquer the Earth, not summon Satan to destroy it", then the henchman just kills him and summons Satan himself.
Here's a hot take on a Right-hand Man:
Holmes and Watson!
The archetypal Dynamic Duo, yes, but also:
1) Perfect fit for the Brains-and-Brawn category, while Holmes is no slouch and Watson is anything but a dullard, this just serves to up the badassery of both of them, as they exceed each other's high standards that they hold for themselves
2) Obviously deathly loyal on both ends, but also Holmes is basically Watson's employer, given the narrator setting and plot device. It's quite possible, in fact, that the tales of Holmes' exploits might be a steady and reliable source of income for the retired army doctor. So there is also an explicit boss/employee angle.
3) Holmes is shown to rely on Watson time and again, for autopsies, or marksmanship, or general application of violence, or, you know, mending wounds, which is quite essential in the line of work; Whereas Watson is decidedly more self-sufficient, because without Holmes he's just a retired gentleman with an uncannily sharp pen. So, there is emphasis on the boss being more reliant on the right-hand man than the other way round.
Exceptional. Please reply to this comment so I can get the notification to come back later. And read this again.
@@schmjozekhlrhumop3909 I got you boo.
Watson is also a lancer
A lancer fundamentally is a character who makes another character more interesting by challenging them
Watson although he is on Holmes’s side he challenges Holmes by being politely confused and asking Homes to explain
This makes homes more interesting because it lets us see his thoughts instead which adds depth to him as a character
The random instead isn’t meant to be there and yt won’t let me edit
I'm pretty sure they so solidly count as a dynamic duo _because_ they support eachother so much, almost every aspect of either of their characters is both shoring up some part of the other and serving to make some part of the other _more_ in some way.
good lord it was hard to find a way to write that sentence without it sounding like a gay joke, no wonder they're a classic mainstay for a certain kind of fanfic. they get along like an old married couple, they display the classic attributes of a successful long-term relationship, and they straight up complete eachother.
I’m also a fan of the Former Right Hand Man, where a pair of characters were once on the same side and have now flipped partially- look at Thor and Loki in the Marvel Films. Even though initially we don’t see much of it, their relationships as brothers made Loni the thinking right hand man of Thor, who replaces him with a five man band who didn’t exactly treat him well. This set up, even though a lot of it is off screen, makes the rise of Loki as a big bad and or dragon makes complete sense- his fight is personal.
Confused and asking for clarification: when you said "a five man band who didn't exactly treat him well" do you mean Thor+Sif+The Warriors Three didn't treat Loki well or am I way off?
I like to think this is part of why Thor and Cap are such good friends, that after the events of winter soldier and the dark world that they spent a lot of time commiserating over losing their dark haired right hand man who came back evil and who they desperately tried to save.
@@tortis6342 pretty much! It’s not a perfect one to one comparison, but the trope is there!
See also: Guts and Griffith in Berserk.
@@daveinacave okay thank you. I just wanted to make sure I was reading you clearly
Walter's betrayal of Hellsing was to reclaim his lost youth and return to his peak self. Alucard hates this as he envies humans for living, aging and dying - all things he cannot do. He tells Walter he was much more beautiful as an old man. It harkens back to conversation Alucard and Walter have at the beginning of the series about Walter being a "John Bull" - a classic older British gentleman.
Also Walter was working for them from the very beginning since the end of the war so in a way his attachment to Integra and Seris was him becoming the mask.
I understand that alcohol ans drugs isn't fun when I know it can't kill me.
Everyone forgets, Starscream was always portrayed as extremely competent at his job. It's the main reason he was worth keeping around.
Mmm… not always.
His defining feature is more that he always was just as loyal to Megatron as necessary, but always waiting for the opportunity to betray Megatron in order to get his Klingon promotion
In what way was starscream competent? Other than being able to survive.
@@DarkFlamesDarkness To my knowledge Starscream was the main leader or general of the cybertronian uhh, airborne military for lack of a better term, and he himself was an excellent fighter when engaged in air combat, which is why the decepticons even have as many flying bots as they have since the vast majority of flying bots on cybertron were in that military segment, and many of them followed Starscream because of his combat abilities, i have not seen the Prime show, but to my knowledge in it Starscream rarely ever gets to actually show off his skills as an air menace, which is a shame and is the reason why many people believe he's a weakling, sad face :(
It all ultimately depends on which version of Starscream you cover, really. G1 Starscream was second in command because he was the best shot among the Deceptacons, making him often the best pair to Megatron who transformed into a powerful gun. In the first two series of the Unicron Saga (Armada and Energon), his character is explored further and he even defects for a time as a result, even if he returns to the Deceptacons in the end. In the final part of the Unicron Saga, Transformers: Cybertron, he actually gets to explore being the primary antagonist for a time due to retrieving a major source of power and making use of it to become more threatening. It's really only the more recent series that have explored making him comparatively easy to walk over even by average rank and file where his cunning ends up being his only real strength, which is why he is treated as a second in command at times.
@@DarkFlamesDarknesswell, it depends, but it is pretty straightforward. In TF Animated, Starscream is a menace and powerhouse, easily the second strongest decepticon behind Megatron, and once he goes Solo, he’s still a menace to Autobots and Decepticons.
In TF Prime, he’s by far the weakest and at his most cowardice, but he’s cunning and smart as hell. While Megatron is unavailable, he comes up with pretty good plans for the deceptions and proves to be a much better leader at overall planning than Megatron (even Soundwave somewhat respects him as a leader). And again, him Solo is a pretty good antagonist. Despite how weak he is and having basically no resources, he manages to severely affect the devepticons, and play the autobots to his advantage. To the point that Megatron decides to take him back instead of killing him despite his treachery, just for how effective he ultimately is
The most op right hand man is Samwise Gamgee: the greatest gardener of all time.
Indeed. So powerful, the One Ring held no sway over him.
He also refused to serve unseasoned food while in the middle of the wilderness, THAT is commitment to being civilized and good.
If the line "I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you" doesn't encapsulate this entire trope in one sentence, than I don't know what does.
Meira from the Cradle series (Unsouled)
I wanna see a trope-talk on "Killing God"
This will mostly be Japanese-based in Anime and JRPGs but it's an interesting thing I see a lot
I mean, His Dark Materials did it too, even if I found it hella anticlimactic for how religious types got their collective panties in a twist over that scene.
Occasional variant--Ensnare God (Pokémon games where you can put ribbons on Arceus, the creator of the universe, and make it enter beauty contests come immediately to mind, but there are other examples)
Throw Terry Pratchett's The Last Hero in there too. It's the book where Cohen the Barbarian decides to, er, return fire to the gods.
_Persona Music Intensifies_
“Don’t get gobbled up by a D”
-Celestial Dragons to scare their kids
What I really want to see is an "evil king" with a caring sibling, parent or child that walks in on the "hero" killing them that then becomes the new protagonist.
"My name is Inigo Montoya..."
That sounds like a trope in and of itself.
The Last of Us 2: Am I a joke to you?
@@liriumcarrousel4284 Everyone: Yes.
@@liriumcarrousel4284 legit thought abt that game as soon as I read the OP tweet lol.
Also damn I need a replay soon tbh. Need to see my wife (Abby) again.
I wish we could have had this as a two-parter, one for righthand man generally and one for dragon/villain dynamics specifically. I kind of feel like the general trope got lost in all the spice of the more specific form, which is the only possible justification for Samwise Gamgee being completely absent from the video.
Samwise is no Dragon; he is not combat oriented even slightly (hitting someone with a frying pan in self-defense does not count) and his resistance to the influence of the Ring was not due to any mighty power but due to his not having a strong enough selfish attribute that Sauron could corrupt at that time (otherwise he totally would be the one to toss the Ring into destruction and that wasn't the point).
Samwise is a True Best Friend and gardener. It is not complimentary to assign him a role he does not fill, just as would be to deny him one he does. He's explicitly happy with his lot in life!
@@JarieSuicune this was very well reasoned and eloquently put.
I absolutely agree he isn't a dragon, but I would argue the asymmetric nature of their relationship, Sam being so essential to Frodo's completing the journey, and his protective attitude towards Frodo even in non-combat situations would still qualify him as a righthand man, albeit an unconventional one.
I spent the whole time waiting for a Sam and Frodo movie clip. Like the following:
Frodo: I am Frodo Baggins, and this is Samwise Gamgee.
Faramir: Your bodyguard?
Sam: His gardener.
I laughed at that for way too long in theaters.
Due to being a choose your own adventure game, Henry Stickmin gets to explore various outcomes for Right Hand Man of the Toppat Clan, ranging from continuing to serve the leader of the clan after they've been demoted to coming back from death as a cyborg to do battle with Henry again.
Man talking about the stickmin games are like talking about beethoven in a music lesson for pop artists. Such mastery is simply unfair to ask for from such people, they were truly one of a kind
Was looking for this comment! I love Reginald's and RHM's dynamic because they so obviously care about each other
He was the definition of a caring badass! And it's not even that he only cares for Reginald, since if you choose to side with the Toppat's he would be just as helpful and kind to Henry. Gosh I love that game.
Red doing a Trope Talk about the Right Hand Man without talking about THE Right Hand Man is clearly doing both the Henry Stickmin series and the Trope Talk a disservice.
RHM is interesting as a Right Hand Man because he isn't simply loyal to Reginald Copperbottom, but instead is loyal to the Toppat Clan as a whole. He simply wants what's best for the Clan, and works with Copperbottom to do what's best for the Clan, rather than working for Copperbottom out of loyalty to him.
The fact I had to scroll quite a bit to see a comment about this is just sad
My favorite thing is when the villain boss will sacrifice to protect their bodyguard. I just love villains who will inconvenience their plans in order to protect their underlings
Great shipping potential
God that moment in castelvania the series between Isaac and Dracula....
@@marsmallow7245 it doesn't have to have any romantic connotations, it could be friendship os simply not wanting to lose their litteral most valuable employee.(the right hand man is defined as enabling the boss to actually run their empire/buisness)
But that has never stopped the shippers, i mean have you seen how bakugo & midoria get shipped with anything that moves including eachother.
Interestingly, this applies to the Arthur/Merlin dynamic in Merlin. Merlin is his manservant and also technically i required to taste something if they suspect it's a poison, but he's also unofficially Arthur's closest advisor, and unknown to arthur because of plot, his bodyguard. Which reverses the whole fighter/mage dynamic, plus, as magic is illegal, merlin can't use his magic all the time, so arthur is more reliable in kicking arse. Merlin is loyal to Arthur because of at first destiny, then because of personal connections that people ship them about (it's noted by multiple characters that merlin is unusually loyal). So yeah, I'm off to read more fanfiction about it
Agreed! Those two had an absolute truckload of chemistry, no matter how anyone chooses to read that chemistry.
and third reason, Merlin is his uncle/godparent figure in light of the whole Uther thing
Well not sure exactly which iteration of these two are being referred to, this comes from a Mentor/Mentee setup. It is one way to balance out the hierarchy of power, when the novice is supposed to lead while the master remains more in the background to either let the novice grow/shine or to be saved as a trump card.
@@truekurayami They're talking about the BBC show Merlin. It's a divergence of the more traditional "Merlin as old wizard, Arthur as young king", where Merlin and Arthur are both about the same age with Merlin being a royal servant and trusted friend to Arthur rather than a mentor.
@@masaufuku1735 Thanks for clearing that up, Arthur and Merlin are probably the two most used characters, so I could have probably checked 100 different shows and still not have figured it out
We also love a “the dragon was actually the real big bad” reveal
I love how Red mentioned it hat they did everything in their power not to make the entire trope talk about the FMA characters.
If you take suggestions, please do the “Group of Misfits” Trope Talk.
People who been cast out of society for different reasons only to meet other outcast like them to become a team or family is an excellent trope to talk about.
Characters like the X-Men, Doom Patrol, Straw Hats Pirates, and Phantom Troupe are great examples of it.
Can't forget Black Clover, this trope basically defines that show
@@DanielPereira-ey9nt I haven’t seen that yet, but thank you for the reference.
Titan A.E.
The castlevania Netflix series does an amazing job with this and the added bonus that all of them can barely tolerate eachother
six of crows and the foxhole court are two books to add to this trope. sort of more complicated found-family
All this talk about "right hand [men]" has overlap with the advisor and king trope, the "power behind the throne," if you will. This is a mutable inversion of the trope. The advisor knows the leader on the throne is very valuable, as the advisor has neither a legitimate claim, nor the willingness to impractically place a target on their back. The king is used as a mouthpiece to perform the advisor's plans. If the advisor is cartoonishly evil and ambitious, he'll scheme and act to usurp the king. Heroic advisors would be performing similar schemes, though the plot (and therefore context) drives all schemes an advisor would ever make.
A bit like how Cardinal Richelieu is portrayed in The Three Musketeers.
Another version of the advisor I really like is when they are smarter than their boss, but believe in their vision/cause, so they follow and advise them. Usually at some point, the boss ignores some critical advice and bad stuff happens to them. Sometimes then the advisor will have foreseen the bad stuff and planned ahead and gets them out. If this duo is the bad guys, then whoever the smart good guy is might have also foreseen the foreseeing and made a counter counter plan lol
You must change the way that you broadcast your identity to others, or you will be late.
About Walter in Hellsing: The betrayal wasn't really unexplained at all! Walter mentions that he is getting old. He used to be comparable to Alucard, an unstoppable monster hunter machine, but he is still human. So when he gets old, he starts getting weaker, while Alucard gets stronger. He betrays the Hellsing because he longs to be at his peak again, and is willing to give it a one in a million shot to make it happen.
It was in my opinion a *really* bad writing choice because at no prior point is the Walter shown to be a vain Goku type OR explained how killing Alucard will make him strong. It just seemed nonsensical. I was really hoping Red would explain it on a way consistent with the character.
I think she’s getting at the fact that, in the OVAs, it’s not very CLEAR.
Honestly, I think T4⭐️ did a great job with the PARODY version, Hellsing Ultimate Abridged, where Walter just being tired of Alucard’s jackass behavior comes across as completely understandable.
@@phastinemoon Didn't he want to fuck Alucard?
At least the abridged version explained it better.
So Walter thought, when the combined forces of the Nazis, the Catholic Crusaders, and motherfucking Alexander Anderson all failed to bring Alucard down; *he* was going to be the one?
Sometimes, villains too can have the power of friendship
I mean, frankly the only villains who don't have that are the ones who have zero compassion or empathy.
You can still have compelling villains and still have them show genuine concern or even affection for another person.
One primary example from the Batman mythos being The Falcones(especially in the Long Halloween graphic novel).
The Fighter/Mage duo sometimes have their roles reversed, with a Heroic Fighter being backed up by a healer or support caster.
"Have _you_ as my Right Hand? I'd sooner cut off my whole arm."
Honestly surprised you didn't mention Kikimora when you brought up The Owl House, since she seems to follow the tropes even more closely than Hunter does for most of the story.
She's closer to the StarScream archetype imo, which was brought up and is not the focus of the video
I think my fav "Villain-Dragon" dynamic from recent memory is Robotnik and Agent Stone from the sonic movies. It's not much, but it's quite refreshing because Robotnik pretends Stone is perfectly expendable and draws attention to how "weak" he is, but is blatantly dependent on him by virtue of the sheer convenience of having him around as well as the dominant social dynamic. Honestly a delightful change of pace as he seems to be getting more appreciative of Stone as time goes on, even if he'd never admit it, rather than the inevitable backstab other lackeys would get, that Knuckles got in the same movie for that matter.
It also has a couple different types of relationships especially in the sequel where Robotnik doesn't seem to have quite the same mindset. It's like in his isolation he's invented his own version of Agent Stone that the real Stone can't meet the new standard of (at least in a short time). He takes his minion's efforts quite for granted and gives even less positive feedback than he did in the first film.
Stone, meanwhile, is clearly in love with his boss and is therefore fiercely loyal and willing to accept abuse and neglect as a result.
The only reason I'd hesitate to apply this trope is that Stone doesn't actually do that much outside of grunt work. He's a minion that's ascended to right-hand by virtue of being Robotnik's only human associate.
@@BonaparteBardithion yeah that makes sense. What really sold it for me is the "I read the manual" moment. Not only because it genuinely surprised Robotnik, but it implies that a relative control freak robotnik shared a significant level of control and possibly a part of the original design process with his lackey.
“I’m Mr. Sterling’s right-hand arm Man. I’m Mr. Sterling’s everything. I’m his confidant, his best friend, his silly rabbit,”
“is that what he calls you?”
@@bussyfrappe9762 no
@@simavolodina god I Love that
Seeing the "mild and spicy"-image Red drew, it makes me think. What if the big bad and his dragon are twin brothers who wrestle every morning to determine, who-is-who for the day and have completely separate schemes from one another they work on their "turns"? Sounds like a very fun premise to me.^^
This made me laugh out loud :D
You could *totally* screw with the heroes’ heads with that!😂
Closest I can think of to this is the Maulers from Invincible constantly arguing over which one the original is.
Now I need a book where, for the dragon, it’s just a job, but the villain really cares about the dragon and keeps trying to get their attention.
Riza Hawkeye is one of my favourite anime characters of all time and I adore her character
Bow down to our queen
@@debraboutom2060 No, that's still Izumi Curtis. If we're sticking within the same anime.
THE housewife.
I think the reason that evil right hand men are called “The Dragon” might be because in older JRPGs, like Final Fantasy 4, the first major villain’s right hand guy is just literally straight up a dragon
see also kuja and his dragon in ffix
Another villainous variation (though not always) is when the Left Hand Man is keeping the villain in check.
Maybe they were their morale compass. Or they were the litteral key, while the villain had immense evil sealed inside them.
ANd now, they're gone and the previously inept villain is going to destroy reality as we know it. Good Job.
Or our heroes knows this before hand/learned it just before the final battle, and have to find another way to deal with the Big Bad. Maybe defeating it first. Maybe try to talk them out of whatever evil they were planning. Or just bonk them with a heavy object while we deal with the big bad, though that's less interesting.
that reminds me of odion and marik's relationship in yugioh
Thank you for including Owl House! Hunter's tragedy as the undervalued/betrayed underling was so good!
Aroace me *continually* finding out that characters I just love for supporting each other and vibing so much actually have an unspoken romantic/sexual undertone I completely missed. Flirting is an alien language.
Same
I think the reason it’s called the “Dragon and Villain” duo is because in a number of high fantasy fairy tails, it’s common for a villain to have a pet dragon. Idk, just a guess.
"And during the war, you served as Megatron's _what_ exactly?"
"I've been his first officer, his lieutenant general, his air chief marshal... but mostly I've been his _whipping boy."_
"And how would you describe your relationship with the accused?"
"I would describe it as _complicated."_
This is from Megatron’s trial in IDW comics?
@@eskarinakatz7723 Yes.
While Red's focusing on action-adventure, RHMs show up everywhere, and come in all sorts of flavors.
A very common RHM function is to be the grounding force that keeps their boss on the rails. Either by direct action, or by serving as their voice of reason/moral guide post, often both. In many cases, that may actually be their primarcy role.
Alfred and Jeeves are both very grounded, capable men who work for somebody who're one short step from a spectacular collapse.
Also fun, it's quite common for them to also fall into at least one other classic pair trope.
Brock Samson is an example of such an effective right hand man, he winds up going off to do his own thing and leaving Rusty to find a less effective second in command in Sergeant Hatred.
A really great take on the trope is Link and Zelda's relationship in Breath of the Wild. In the gameplay of course, Link is the main character, and Zelda is the damsel in distress. But most of the story progression is in the flashbacks, and there Zelda's the one with all the agency and Link is her mute bodyguard.
An interesting take on this trope occurs in Fire Emblem: Three Houses with two of the house leaders, Dimitri and Edelgard, in which while Dedue serves the classic kind of dynamic to Dimitri after he was saved from a massacre in response to the Tragedy of Duscur, Hubert is more of the clever, scheming behind-the-scenes guy who devotes his loyalty as an advisor to Edelgard. While Edelgard is an intelligent tactician and skilled leader in her own right, she mainly does more of the outwards in the open "big guy" things like leading her troops into the battlefield, whereas Hubert is mainly a chessmaster who does more of the dirty, underhanded and clandestine stuff needed to realize Edelgard's goals. This contrast makes even more sense in gameplay, with Edelgard being an incredibly strong fighter in melee combat, while Hubert is the mage.
As a result, Dimitri and Edelgard contrast each other not only in character, goals, beliefs, and ideals, but also in relation to their right-hand men.
Hubert is also doubly interesting here because he's both a heroic and villainous example based on what route you're on while still taking roughly the same actions in all four stories
@@waterwarrior1382 not only Hubert, but Edelgard as well ! She's the villain in three out of four routes, but in CF she's the hero and her characterisation doesn't change much, it's mainly a matter of circumstance and social circle, really, but even when she's the hero, she's a morally gray one since she knows she has to do bad things (start a war) to reach a good outcome (equity of chance and no religious oppression) while Hubert, despite having the same goals as her, leans a lot more into the "villain" characterisation even in this route by, according to his supports with Edelgard, doing some things behind her back, often cruel or bloody ones, so her hands stay clean. Yet at the same time, his supports with the other characters show that he's a good person at his core, kind and caring, though mischievous and teasing, but he has decided to be the most villainous of the group to protect everyone else, Edelgard first of all, and is enjoying the ride while Edelgard basically begs him to be his own person and find happiness outside of the pursuit of her own goals. It's very fun, really XD
And then there’s Hilda and Claude. They’re just besties
Hubert might be one of my favorite characters in the game, at least in Black Eagles routes. It’s so fun to have a character that fits *every single* “generic evil” trope on the surface serving as one of your friends. Not to mention he’s got a surprising amount of depth.
@@wormrights883 Both of also have quite the contrast, too, as Hilda is a melee fighter and Claude specializes in ranged combat. Though Claude does have a laid-back and mischievous attitude, he has a more serious and pragmatic approach to solving problems, while Hilda is quite lazy and would rather take advantage of others to do what she wants.
I love the way our flag means death handled this dynamic with Izzy and Blackbeard. In the first few episodes, it looks like Izzy is the dragon and Blackbeard is the villain, but that gets quickly turned on it’s head when Blackbeard comes into the show and becomes Ed. Izzy, however, has such a sense of loyalty towards Blackbeard that when he no longer recognizes the man he used to serve he starts to break down. I’m not sure if his feelings toward Blackbeard could be considered love, as it is a very toxic relationship, but Izzy’s sick sense of loyalty to him goes beyond his position as second in command.
"The Starscream" trope has nothing to do with competence - It's all about motivation. It's basically a Dragon that wants to take the Big Bad's place.
As evidenced by some Transformers continuities' _actual_ Starscream, tbh. They always want their evil promotion, yes, but they can also be decently qualified for the position they aspire to.
@@nataliaborys1554 Oh absolutely. Starscreams come in many flavors. From complete clown, to terrifyingly competent military commander to cheating Satan and getting away with it.
@@j-starchaser It always amuses me how Starscream has been handled differently over the years and mediums and stories. My personal favorite flavor is 'actually more competent than his boss, but too loyal to overthrow him.' in part for the inversion of expectations and in part because at some point said boss is going to be out of the picture for a while and the bad guys will then start winning. This ups the drama considerably in a fun manner.
Late to the party, but I love seeing the little nod to Gideon & Harrow at 3:40, even if they didn't get mentioned otherwise. The Locked Tomb books are filled to the brim with different variations of the Right-Hand Man trope. One Flesh, One End and all that.
Glad I scrolled looking for this before I said anything! 100% Griddlehark on that slide haha
I do wish you would cover it one of the classic right hand men. The Watson. It's so fundamental to the mystery genre to have someone to talk to, explain things to, and often to document the great detectives' exploits, that it is rare to see it subverted. For a time, Hercule Poirot got a new one every book
Not entirely sure but I think Watson was covered in the Lancer episode?
As Red said in her Minions trope talk, a villain's dynamic with their minions can reveal a lot about themself that their dynamic with the heroes can't. This absolutely applies to the right hand man.
On a related note, I have not seen Minions: The Rise of Gru and do not plan to.
What are you not a…
G e n t l e m i n i o n ?
Sacrilege
It's.. honestly meh. Not _terrible_ but certainly not good
I noticed in the first movie Gru knew EVERY MINION'S NAME. I couldn't even tell them apart.
GASP
I love how the Big guy/Smart guy example art is very clearly Gideon and Harrow from the Locked Tomb series, absolutely incredible and a great example of a spicy protagonist boss/right hand relationship
Oh thank god I'm not the only one who saw that
Something I find delightful in the Castlevania games is that Dracula and Death have the villainous friendship variant of this going. One of the games even gives Death the description "Dracula's confidant", and while Dracula DOES use him as a power up once, it's purely because Death specifically told him to and wouldn't do lasting harm. It's just nice to see villains that genuinely like each other.
*Portrait of Ruin's final boss fight intensifies*
@@dreameater8548 that was easily one of the best boss fights in any of the games - better than Soma fighting chaos, better than a non-Belmont protagonist fighting a Belmont for whatever reason, better than any of the Death Boss battles…
Just great
In Castlevania Judgement Death's motivation to help stop the time travel shenanigans is entirely to protect Dracula (since the one responsible is a minion of the demon Galamoth, who seeks to usurp him), whereas most of the cast is just concerned about preventing the world from being paradox'd out of existence. And his Story Mode ending is basically just the narrator going "Wow, these two horrible monsters of the night are, like, actually besties. How did that happen?"
in aria of sorrow death straight up doesn't talk after dracula is gone
Clicked on this solely for the Roy/Riza in the thumbnail. What a delight.
Also, they're the best pairing, no questions will be answered.
GRIDDLE MADE IT INTO A TROPE TALK! This makes me so happy.
Read and/or watch Ascendance of a Bookworm. The series is basically "oops, all right-hand mans".
Every character has at least 2-3 right hand mans at minimum, even the higher right hand mans themselves. Its part of their culture, because everyone's so specialised and needs an individual person to do each and every task.
gods yes
it is honestly ridiculous how many right hand men there are, but with so few jobs for nobles it also makes sense.
Lord
Geibe (sub-lord)
Attendants
Scholars
Knights
Knight commander
Head of house.
Priest [among the lowest of the jobs]
thats basically it. AND within those there are only 2 jobs that don't technically report to another: Lord and Head of house.[Lord technically reports to the royals but thats another can of worms]
With the class system in place the scholar/knight/attendant positions are often sub filled down the line as well. High nobles often have people reporting to/for them of low/med nobility. and med nobles can follow that with low nobles attending them. only well off low nobles can afford commoner attendants?
Geibe directly report to the lord as does the knight commander
attendants and scholars directly support many high ad med nobles, and those nobles often support the lords clan nobles. Knights can be assigned to either body guard or their province/the lord.
aside from that the head of house technically doesn't report to the lord directly but the lord does have some sway and can command.
@@alexandersen1372 Thats not even counting the commoners system with the leherls. Benno has Mark, Mark has Lutz. Everyone has an assistant past a point.
@@dr.badguyreviews6785 exactly, i was just focusing on nobles due to the fact we see so much of them passed a certain point. (avoiding spoilers, you know the point)
@Alex Andersen Oh of course. The noble system gets so vastly fathomless past that point. It's hard keeping up with the fact that each character has up to or more than Rozemyne, and there are also at least 16 similar systems with the other duchies and we glimpse it through a narrow lens. I do get lost quite a bit, but its fantastically thorough.
@@dr.badguyreviews6785 yeah i've been trying to read ahead with google translate app on phone (got some raw scans, will buy when in english to support). it only gets better : )
Imagine how fire it would have been to have a dragon battle butler bodyguard thus being absolutely assured of having a warm (and potentially spicy) meal served to you presumably three times a day like a boss.
I was gonna type out something about how on some level, I think most people either want to be the dragon butler to a loving master or have a dragon butler to love, but your mention of spicy food just gave me the idea for a story where you have a bunch of badass dragon butlers all competing with eachother to win the affection of one master. All the battles are essentially like DBZ or Helsing, but when all is said an done, they just made a gorgeous curry or cake or something, a la Black Butler.
Do you mean: Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid
honestly this is so oddly specific at first I thought this wouldn't show up
but then I remembered Sebas Tian from Overlord, who is a Dragonoid butler (who's powerful enough to be considered a battle butler/bodyguard)
@@erinfinn2273 Competing for food-approval. A wholesome harum.
“Explain this… oddly shaped artifact.”
Lunch-maker
“What?”
Lunch-maker
“…How?”
[presents a photo demonstration]
“DRAGON??… BLOWS?!…”
Five minutes tops
“Just… TAKE IT AWAY..”
You already touched it. AFTER I WASHED IT. Master, we are cleared to depart.
XD
Arcane’s Sevika is one of the most recent (and great) examples of Right-Hand Man. I’m curious what will happen with her now that her boss is gone.
3:45 I just wanna point out that interestingly in many chinese media the right hand man is often more a counselor or officer of some sort. A man able to coordinate or give advices. To hint at things so the main realises things or learn more. Or simply to make the power house main character reach full potential. Taking a bit of a teacher role.
Else simply allowing the boss to go and be the action man while the right hand man covers the flank and holds the fort. Or in cases, solving problems before they become a problem. Its also an easy way to write off all the work needed to keep an army and letting the main character advance the plot.
one of my favorite quotes is : An assasin might spend weeks of concentration, and months of preparation for the perfect assasination. But a counselor will always kill more then assasins can in their lifetimes. They can plot the deaths of 12 people in no time and ultimately choses their demise.
Jinx as the dragon to Silco in Arcane is such a good example of this.
Definitely missed out on saying that the right hand man is defined by "Having a boss and being a boss"
Love this
:-P happy doggo
You know what could be interesting? If instead of the Dragon having a redemption arc, their boss joins the good guys first and leaves them behind, turning the Dragon into the new serious threat now that they're personally motivated by feelings of betrayal and no longer just a second in command.
Also a fun way to implement this sub-trope is if the former Dragon showing up to terrorize the heroes causes them to realize that supporting character with a dark, mysterious past used to be one of the bad guys
That's pretty much how She-Ra and the Princesses of Power starts. Adora is a big bad to be, and Catra is her right hand. Adora realizes that she is one of the baddies and defects, leaving Catra behind. Catra is understandably upset about being betrayed by her best friend.
the VA of *Azula* also voiced *Delilah Briarwood* from "Legend of Vox Machina", who has an AMAZING dragon in her husband *Sylas Briarwood.*
I don't know why, but I think that's oddly fitting, or perhaps karmic.
SO TRUUUUEEEEE
Wasn't Sylas the Dragon to Delilah since he was more the fighter ? If we take it more has a dynamic duo of evil and not classical underling-boss relationship.
@@somik-i3x
Yes, Sylas was the dragon, since Delilah was the one who actually made the plans, and he clearly trusted her to make the best choices for them both, being as supportive as possible, in the twistedly wholesome way many good villanous partnerships are.
Generic Evil Apocalypse Cult? Boring. Someone willing to doom the world for true love and doing her damnedest (literally) to follow through on it? FAR more interesting, and it's one of the things I love about Legend of Vox Machina.
That last shot with the villain and the dragon in the middle of a fight has just given me a really *interesting* idea for a villain pair for an RPG... thank you for that!
Way off topic, but I am so happy to finally see clips from "The Owl House" in your work! When i saw the title, I had my hopes up for the Golden Guard to be featured, and ... *angelic choir*
15:30 One of my favorite conclusions to this development is when the Villain realizes that pursuing his goals would put the Dragon into too much danger (possibly fataly so), so he actually decides to give up his evil ambitions because the safety of the Dragon means more to him than that. Very heartwarming.
The Right Hand Man trope makes me think of Eve from No Straight Roads. I feel it's a worthy blueprint for Right Hand Men/Women worth discussing.
Before she met Tatiana, her boss, she was a girl who clearly had... _issues._ She was desperate to find people who saw the world the way that she did. After her boyfriend left her when she illuminated his hair with bright lights (e.g. setting his hair on fire), she became afraid that there was no one that could. She began working to spread her own popularity as an artist. Tatiana took notice, and welcomed her into the No Straight Roads company.
Eve and Tatiana demonstrate a 3d relationship throughout their appearances. According to Eve herself, Tatiana accepted her for who she was. But it's not a controlling relationship- she doesn't feel too uncomfortable to question Tatiana's orders when they hit personally. She even felt comfortable enough to bring her TV over to Tatiana's place to watch the news and understandably was miffed when her boss punches it after seeing the protagonists' success.
It's a really weird example of a Right Hand Man. But what I think should be taken away from it is that there's a lot to be gained from the Right Hand Man or Woman being their own character with their own personality, wants, and history, especially if those contextualize why they have the relationship that they have with their boss.
That video game did a lot of things right, and I especially love the estranged dynamic between Zuke (a drummer who's surprisingly mellow and is rather subdued to fellow MC Mayday's guitar-wielding genki girl tendencies) and his brother, DK West. Spoilers for some plot stuff from the game:
Whenever you confront DK West in 'No Straight Roads', it's through a series of rhythm-focused rap battles between Zuke and DK West that are sprinkled across the game, which reveals some backstory for the two siblings and how their current relationship is so bad. And while Zuke has a long fuse that takes a lot to set him off, West is the one of two people that really knows how to push his brother's buttons and gets some volume out of him. But after Zuke's berserk button is pressed, he goes after his brother's metaphorical throat during their first rap battle, and doesn't relent as Zuke unceremoniously disowns him in the final verse of the second rap battle, pointing out West's tendency to deflect blame, shirk all responsibility, and running away from his problems. The comment caught West off guard, and it's very clear that he's hurt by it, with said verse ultimately worsens their already estranged relationship.
In the final Rap Battle (which is more "Rap Therapy"), it's clear the two siblings won't reach an understanding on their own, so Mayday dials it down a decibel (or 11) to become the voice of reason. Though she's not very good at rhyming, Mayday ultimately steps in to force Zuke and West to have a healthy one-on-one therapy session, rather than the two blaming each other for their faults. At the end of the song, Zuke softly borrows West's "ewah" catchphrase into the lyrics as a sign he's on the road to reconciliation with his older brother.
Thanks for this!
I love those clips of Starscram, he is such a wonderful wimp
Ahhh love myself some Mustang-Hawkeye dynamics. Watching them interact just flips the happy switch in my brain :)
Thanks for covering this trope Red!
11:02 I am SO glad you included this scene from FMAB!! This has got to be one of my favorite scenes in the whole show and it shot Pride up to #1 in my all-time favorites. Because he’s *so close* to being the Undervalued Underling trope, except he’s desperately trying to look for reasons to still trust his Father. It’s so interesting, I could make an essay about his character.