An old Carpenter and Joiner I worked with had one. He was a supervisor at the time and had to drive some distance to a meeting. When he got there a door needed easing so he bought one from a shop close by. He then kept it and used it. I'd not turn my nose up at it, but if given the choice, and because they're so common, I'd rather go for the real deal.
Hi , good advice my friend, I have a ww11 Acorn brand plane that my late father aquired when he bought an ex rmy joiners tool kit in about 1953, quite a simple design, no adjustment to the frog, red and black paint job, and a small brass adjusting wheel, works ok, sadly when I emptied his workshop woodworm had made a meal of most of his wooden handled tools, some of which I rehandled later, and still use. Thanks for another interesting video, best wishe's to you and your's, Stuart UK.
Hi Stuart, the Acorn is okay. Am I being harsh to say it's not to the same standard as others? Glad you could make new woodwork and keep it working 👍. I also remembered Rapier? Not great but an okay.
@@faceedgewoodworking Hi ,no your not being harsh, it was of its time, cheap to make, and the army put them in the tool kits, I suspect alot of those kits got left in France, dad purchased his as army surplus, I guess there's always been cheap tools, no matter how far back we go, we're lucky we have the choice to buy better if we can afford them, my first plane I bought new in 1965, a Record no4, at the time it cost me £2.10 shillings in old money, just over half a weeks wage then, after 57yrs of use I don't think it was a bad investment,lol. Kind regards, Stuart UK.
@@stuartlockwood9645 A fine return on investment! That's a really interesting bit of information on the army supply, I had no idea about the Acorn brand and it's association.
Here in the Netherlands you have Nooitgedacht, JNY and come across a few Swedish Anchor. Which all seem like reasonable copies for the bailey I have a no5 from SIF which I think stands for Suffolk Iron Foundary
Thank you! They are very good tools. I just wanted to highlight that post WW2 planes are often just as good as the earlier variants. Thanks for your experience 👍
I really don't like the low knobs using them. That is an older feature though. The nicest ones are the high knobs with the cast base ring. That's the super deluxe feature package.
They are mostly wooden plane but in france you'd have pretty much three well known brands: goldenberg, peugeot frères and peugeot & cie (different companies, similar name) The cast iron plane have the screw lever cap thing instead of the cam thing Just like stanley, what they make nowadays isn't on par with what they used to The wooden jointers are very cheap on the second hand market and honestly easier to use since they don't weight as much When buying one you should look for the iron marking, depending on the animal or sign like a moon, sun, eye etc, it specify a different quality of steel
Thank you Uwy. Those names will give me something to research. I'm with you on the wooden jack, try and jointers. Fantastic value and in many ways better than metal planes for their respective jobs. Interesting point on steel qualities too 👌
Love those type 18s, all of my Stanley's are Type 18s. Great feel, good design, past wartime when they used any material they could find, and often in better shape since they're not as old. Great video, totally agree with your opinion. Restoring is a lot of fun, not too difficult either
@@faceedgewoodworking that could well be an American thing. Stanley had versions basically and they were the Types 1 through 20. Type 20s are the ones the have Blue paint, or whatever it is, instead of the traditional japanning
Agree with you, a good start to a good user is to begin with a proper(ly) used one, just with the provision that a really low price is worth a try. My made in India #4 made a good scrub plane and an even more obscure #4 is used on dirty scavenged wood before risking a better plane. I am talking under 20 quid though. Well under but that was a few years ago. The learning process is better spent on a cheapie than ruining a nicer one.
I have several Sargent planes that I like very well. I have a set of type 11 Stanleys from a 2-8 and a set of type 16/18s. I much prefer the newer Stanleys.
WS are decent planes as well. The Chapman era Acorns are on par with Sargent. Sedgley with rosewood tote and knob are also fine. Rapier are a cheap copy of Millers Falls but are still fine for rough work. Woden are top notch. Maybe even better than record. I have been restoring and reselling planes to fund my own collection of tools :)
@@faceedgewoodworking My pleasure. I have been waiting for quite a while for someone on UA-cam to start focusing on British made hand tools. All due respect to the US, but I think the UK produced the best woodworking tools in the western tradition, saws especially.
@@mihailmihaylov9617 Thank you. Funny you should say that. I'm just going to start restoring an Atkins back saw and I was going to contrast it's straight forward looks to a British saw of the same size.
I picked up a Stanley Bailey G12-003 Made in England No 3 size plane a while back. I think they were made in the 70s or 80s. I was curious to try a No 3, in the US a made in England plane is a novelty. Overall the plastic handles fit my hands well and are WAY better than the current Stanley plastic. My only complaint is the chip breaker / cap iron was stamped with a skew. I bought an older vintage bade and cap iron to fix that. A bit of sanding to remove any trace of the mold line, and a couple of coats Tru-Oil gun stock finish and most people do not even realize that the handles are not rosewood. Good worker for the $60 investment (with extra blade & breaker)
Nice! A good handle is a good handle. Solid plastic properly shaped is just fine, so sad they lowered their standards and went for hollow plastic. Cap irons don't worry me too much because shaping them is easy work with a file. But you got a spare, glad it all worked out and I appreciate you sharing your experience.
@@faceedgewoodworking You are right, the soft steel of a cap iron is easy to work. I do like to have a spare iron and finding a spare iron with better formed chip breaker was only a few extra dollars. I did make the skewed one to work, but it was so wonky that it never worked well. The bend to form the hump is 3 degrees off. On another note, it seems that England held onto hand tool woodworking longer than the US. I have a Stanley 13-030 Plough and 13-052 Combination planes, they have funky plastic handles but they are comfortable and both work well for less than the cost of a single Stanley 45, 50 or Record 43, 45. It would be great to hear your thoughts on other tools that help fill out your kit.
@@darinomtvedt1958 Hi Darin. Thanks for that feedback. I'd be delighted to share more. I'm starting that journey here www.faceedgewoodworking.com/ with more to follow here on the channel.
Handyman can be made into a scrub or simple jack on a budget. Woden is a decent brand as well. Millers falls, is that cap iron construction not to not having to remove the top part of the cap when removing the burr on the mirror side during sharpening? If anyone's in continental Europe, giving E.C.E. and Ulmia wooden planes a shot might be worth it. Readily available on the second hand market and can be had for ~20€. The brand new Stanley I bought around 2014 worked okay, but I'll have to get it back out and see how I like it with some years of experience with an older record now. Did the prices for no 4s in the UK drop a bit? I see them around 20-30 now, I recall you couldn't get any decent ones under 40. Cheers, David
Hi David! I'm not much Into scrub planes unless I had an old beam to texture. I might be missing something on the Millers Falls, the cap iron has to be taken off just the same for honing. Good call on WODEN, we have a No 5 at work! Should have thought of that. Thanks for sharing your experience with continental planes, I don't have any working knowledge of them. As far as I know, prices for good vintage No.4 planes have always been pretty low, there's just so many of them. Unlike the less common No.8 or shoulder planes.
@@faceedgewoodworking True, a scrub will only be useful for doing stock prep by hand, though a cambered jack might be handy for things like tapers or getting one side flatter for the power jointer. UK ebay sadly comes with ~25 on top for shipping, customs and taxes, so I rarely use it these days. If you're familiar with Richard Maguire, he uses an ECE wooden plane in some of his videos. He could probably make a handyman or Silverline sing, though :D Not sure about the MF either, only saw it in your thick plane iron video and thought if you just put the foremost 3/4" or so on the honing stone, it might work; it's still just a wild guess. You should drop by the r/woodworking discord, if that is a medium you use; bunch of nice and knowledgeable people there and some focus on hand-tools.
@@drekowski Thanks David. The scrub just doesn't feature in the British tradition. It's been Jack, Try and smooth. There's not really much mention of even working across the grain which seems the fashionable thing to do. This is illustrated well in Peter Nicholson's text and what's in Benjamin Seaton's chest. I appreciate the invite onto the discord. I must admit, I don't know what discord is 😂, I'm very old fashioned. Richard is a good chap, very straight forward approach, I like it!
Hello, as far wooden planes go, I've had luck with Pinie. While they are unusable out of the box, the construction and quality of steel are quite good. Chip breakers always need attention and are a bit fiddly when attaching to the iron, but work fine. All that for a quarter of a price of Ulmia (last time I checked). I have four so far, two smoothers, one scrub, one kind of jack/jointer (52 cm body). Wood on wood contact and low weight are terrific when using a longer plane and since I do a lot of dimensioning by hand, the jointer is one of my favourite planes. Higly reccomended for anyone who is looking for a larger plane, go for wooden rather than cast plane.
I have a silly number of planes really - nearly every bench plane from 3 to 8 (no 7 yet) mostly Stanley and Record. Almost all are 1950s or 60s vintage English made. Nothing to choose between them really quality wise. My 1928 USA no 5 1/2 works well, but there is nothing inherently better than the post war English planes. The only plane I ever bought new is a Record 04 from the early 90s - the box says Calvert Stevens on it, but inside it’s a bog standard Record with wooden handles. It works fine, but because it lives in its box I don’t tend to use it much. I like my Record 06 a lot, but a recently acquired Stanley 4 1/2 is fast becoming my favourite. All these have standard irons except the 06 and 5 1/2 which were sharpened away to virtually nothing when I got them. Not so keen on my dad’s old Rapier no 5 copy with its plastic handles and screw tightened “lever cap” (screw cap?). The lever type is much more convenient. I would avoid Faithfull due to bad experience with a 778 copy which is not properly made and essentially unusable.
Hi Richard. Great collection! Nice to hear that my observations about post WW2 British made planes are pretty accurate. I'm looking forward to moving the No.4s on. I like having a few of interest but they can multiply 😂
@@faceedgewoodworking I am sure your woodworking skills and experience are vastly greater than mine. I have no professional experience - my observations have been formed over a long time as a hobby woodworker. Nevertheless, from what I have seen on your channel we appear to have converged on similar views regarding the merits of various tools. It’s nice to have my firm conviction confirmed that I really don’t need any any £80 chisels or £300 planes to do good work. It would be interesting to hear your views on old & new back saws. I have collected several old dovetail saws and tenon saws, but their teeth are often knackered and need completely recutting. This is a major undertaking and not a skill I am much good at.
@@richardsinger01 Hi Richard. I am a professional and make my living at it. But the stuff I spout off about in my garage has a different direction, but it is at least rooted in practical experience. You're right that you don't need expensive chisels or planes. I don't begrudge the high price options, in fact I'm relieved they exist and I hope they continue to be made. On saws, I do buy old ones and it can be a gamble. My view would be for anyone new to woodworking that a new saw would be best. Dealing with a saw is quite nuanced, and even a quality new saw is pretty good value. Save on planes and chisels, spend on saws.
I have never bought from eBay, partly from frustration having spent ages looking and finding at the checkout that the seller doesn’t deliver to my address on a Scottish island. I am also a bit unlucky and probably a bit gullible so I have little confidence that I wouldn’t end up with a metal banana used mainly as a spare hammer by a blacksmith. I bought a new Record and then a new Faithful ( which at least came with a useable block plane). I tried very hard to fettle them after watching many videos on the process. Both had the same problem in that I could get them to take beautiful shavings for a few passes then they would either stop cutting completely or take a huge gouge out of the wood on the next pass. I could only sort this by taking the blade out and resettling it every few passes. Knowing I was beaten I shelled out for a Clifton plane ( I am very lucky to be able to afford to). Suddenly planing became a joy as the plane behaved exactly as I expected it to and I have never looked back.
That's your punishment for living in one of the most beautiful places on earth 😂. New Records and Faithful are a gamble. Good on you for getting a Clifton, is it the old green or the new grey with one piece cap iron?
@@faceedgewoodworking The new grey one and it’s a beautiful object as well as a great tool. I agree I am lucky to live in such a beautiful place and I am (mostly) happy to put up with the little inconveniences that come up now and again 😊
Thank you for saying that post ww2 Bailey pattern planes are GOOD tools. I have one about 1940-1960 and it’s brilliant. My record 5 1/2 is 1930s and they’re both great. No difference at all. I don’t know why people say pre ww2 are superior. I feel validated haha.
The miller falls smoothers with the more standard shape of lever cap are really pleasant to use. I’d say they stand toe to toe with the best of the stanley Bailey series, and they will rarely be priced at much more than 40 dollars in factory original condition. Most people I can imagine will rush to inform you of the Sargent brand, which in its heyday, was a major competitor of Stanley’s in the hand tool market. Of all the obscure planes that Stanley made, Sargent likely had an apples to apples comparison for about half of them. The truth of the matter is that Sargent didn’t make a fifth as many, which means the current supply is even less than that, which means most collectors are willing to pay more for those planes than somebody in search of a good user. After collecting hand planes for about 4 years, I’ve acquired about 40, encountering maybe a hundred in total, and though only 3 of my hand planes are from the Sargent brand, I bought every one that I came in contact with. Dunlap was a German tool making company from the same time period. Their hand chisels are superb, and while I wouldn’t jump to say that my #3 size Dunlap smoother is incredible or even any better than the other vintage brands, if the blade is sharp, I won’t think twice about reaching for it. Anybody still reading this may be surprised to hear that a company that is still to this day producing sheet metal, and even more-so, tires, gave toolmaking a go, although I’m not sure when or to what effect. That company is Firestone. Yes, the same Firestone that you should be driving no matter what you drive, made hand planes. I haven’t done much research about them, but from what I can tell they only made them in sizes that Stanley would describe as a #4, and a #5. Not much of a surprise here. While I’ve never used them, they’re worth looking up, as they look really badass, and the Firestone logo is embossed on the lever cap in all its original glory. Lastly, the only company that comes to mind that wasn’t mentioned in this video or above in this novel of a UA-cam comment… is Craftsman. If you find yourself in possession of one of these, you should consider whatever you spent on it a loss. Promptly disassemble these planes, maybe keeping the hardware and handle pieces, and depositing the remaining hunks of metal in the nearest trash can to be collected on your scheduled pickup day, so that no other unfortunate soul should be so cursed to think that these tools are in any way, usable or valuable to any but the most foolish of tinkerers.
😂 Brutal sign off with the Craftsman. What's the deal with that whole brand? To my knowledge we didn't have Craftsman range, they did spanners and all sorts right? Thanks more broadly for the comment which is pretty much a useful resource for anyone 👌. It's good to hear the Millers Falls is a good value option. After seeing the quality, 40 dollars seems very reasonable. Quite an education on the sergeant brand, is someone reviving that brand? I have a feeling that might be the case.
Now about other brands to look out for and avoid, starting with the positive including the ones you mention Salmen, Woden, WS, Spiers, Preston and last but not least the rarely heard of Sedgley should be reliable buys. Planes by Rapier may be decent enough too, but the details varied a lot over the production period (including a wheel-tightened cap which I know you hate haha). I now agree it's wise to avoid the likes of Silverline and Faithfull although they can sometimes be decent. I used to champion Faithfull as the owner of a good 'un, but they're far too variable to be a reliable buy for the novice. Good irons though! So definitely worth picking up _only_ for the iron if one stumbles across one for around a fiver. Unfortunately in the same category is the once-venerable Footprint; unless you know what to look for you could be getting one of their junk planes and not one of the good (or at least better) ones. Whitmore planes roughly similar story. Acorn planes can be okay (not nearly as dreadful as some suggest!) but still nothing to write home about; probably best left to the casual user, again unless you see one for a fiver and want to rob the irons.
@@faceedgewoodworking Never seen most of these in the flesh! 😊Sadly I live in a relative wasteland for secondhand planes. This is one of the reasons I champion saving rust buckets for those who don't have easy access to a better selection (or shallow pockets) as I've had to do this a few times. And so far, touch wood, I've never had one that couldn't be disassembled without recourse to a blowtorch...... which is good, because I don't own one LOL. Plus, even though badly corroded irons are frequently an entry in a 'do not buy' checklist the worst iron I've come across (an absolute pitted mess) was salvageable in a reasonable amount of time, without recourse to the Ruler Trick.
@@tungsten_carbide That's a very good point and very well meade. It's easy for me to forget that I have access to lots of excellent used tools at relatively low prices. I'm impressed with how far you've gone with restoring tools!
I upvoted, but I think you did the viewers a minor disservice about planes as rusty as your second example given how quickly and easily such a plane (far from a complete rust bucket) can be cleaned up, and that the process can be mostly hands-off if one chooses - 20-30 minutes of actual work spread over 2-X days, with vinegar/citric acid/molasses solution/rust remover doing all the heavy lifting 🙂 That isn't too much to ask of the new user/learner and the complete disassembly teaches about the anatomy of Bailey-pattern planes so there's some added value there 😎
Hi Carbide. I agree there is definitely value in that plane and we'll cover that in another video. I just wanted to strike a balance. Even buying a second hand tool can be too much of a stretch for some. Thanks for the input though, it's a very valid perspective 👍
I don't see the made in England stuff over here in the USA. So it always fascinates me. Although I do have a wooden plane with a W. Butcher iron in it. I think that iron is about 185 years old? It's in pretty good condition considering its age except for the obligatory horn chip in the tote. Still usable though. It's Sheffield England. I paid $5 for it. i.postimg.cc/9Q2qrVS8/Blutcher.jpg
I don't imagine you do, Paul. I think it made sense to make them here, import taxes and what not. I think we did supply the US in colonial times, but it wasn't long before you were self sufficient 😉. That's a decent looking try plane 👍
The Stanley I just 'fixed' was one of the purple ones. I was able to get it to work well.....
An old Carpenter and Joiner I worked with had one. He was a supervisor at the time and had to drive some distance to a meeting. When he got there a door needed easing so he bought one from a shop close by. He then kept it and used it. I'd not turn my nose up at it, but if given the choice, and because they're so common, I'd rather go for the real deal.
Hi , good advice my friend, I have a ww11 Acorn brand plane that my late father aquired when he bought an ex rmy joiners tool kit in about 1953, quite a simple design, no adjustment to the frog, red and black paint job, and a small brass adjusting wheel, works ok, sadly when I emptied his workshop woodworm had made a meal of most of his wooden handled tools, some of which I rehandled later, and still use. Thanks for another interesting video, best wishe's to you and your's, Stuart UK.
Hi Stuart, the Acorn is okay. Am I being harsh to say it's not to the same standard as others? Glad you could make new woodwork and keep it working 👍. I also remembered Rapier? Not great but an okay.
@@faceedgewoodworking Hi ,no your not being harsh, it was of its time, cheap to make, and the army put them in the tool kits, I suspect alot of those kits got left in France, dad purchased his as army surplus, I guess there's always been cheap tools, no matter how far back we go, we're lucky we have the choice to buy better if we can afford them, my first plane I bought new in 1965, a Record no4, at the time it cost me £2.10 shillings in old money, just over half a weeks wage then, after 57yrs of use I don't think it was a bad investment,lol. Kind regards, Stuart UK.
@@stuartlockwood9645 A fine return on investment! That's a really interesting bit of information on the army supply, I had no idea about the Acorn brand and it's association.
Here in the Netherlands you have Nooitgedacht, JNY and come across a few Swedish Anchor. Which all seem like reasonable copies for the bailey
I have a no5 from SIF which I think stands for Suffolk Iron Foundary
Thank you! I had no awareness of those.
Great video. I have a 1910 Stanley 5 1/2 with a small wheel and low knob. It's interesting from a collector's point of view but also does a good job.
Thank you! They are very good tools. I just wanted to highlight that post WW2 planes are often just as good as the earlier variants. Thanks for your experience 👍
I really don't like the low knobs using them. That is an older feature though. The nicest ones are the high knobs with the cast base ring. That's the super deluxe feature package.
They are mostly wooden plane but in france you'd have pretty much three well known brands: goldenberg, peugeot frères and peugeot & cie (different companies, similar name)
The cast iron plane have the screw lever cap thing instead of the cam thing
Just like stanley, what they make nowadays isn't on par with what they used to
The wooden jointers are very cheap on the second hand market and honestly easier to use since they don't weight as much
When buying one you should look for the iron marking, depending on the animal or sign like a moon, sun, eye etc, it specify a different quality of steel
Thank you Uwy. Those names will give me something to research. I'm with you on the wooden jack, try and jointers. Fantastic value and in many ways better than metal planes for their respective jobs.
Interesting point on steel qualities too 👌
Love those type 18s, all of my Stanley's are Type 18s. Great feel, good design, past wartime when they used any material they could find, and often in better shape since they're not as old.
Great video, totally agree with your opinion. Restoring is a lot of fun, not too difficult either
Thanks J, is the Type 18 an American thing? I'm not sure if ours had types, they just turned to shite...
@@faceedgewoodworking that could well be an American thing. Stanley had versions basically and they were the Types 1 through 20. Type 20s are the ones the have Blue paint, or whatever it is, instead of the traditional japanning
Agree with you, a good start to a good user is to begin with a proper(ly) used one, just with the provision that a really low price is worth a try. My made in India #4 made a good scrub plane and an even more obscure #4 is used on dirty scavenged wood before risking a better plane. I am talking under 20 quid though. Well under but that was a few years ago. The learning process is better spent on a cheapie than ruining a nicer one.
Thanks Jan-Reiner. I think we all have different experiences, yours is a sound idea. Thanks for your perspective 😊
Yeah I have a Stanley Handyman I use as a scrub plane. It sees a lot of use. There's a place for crappy planes in the workshop.
I have several Sargent planes that I like very well. I have a set of type 11 Stanleys from a 2-8 and a set of type 16/18s. I much prefer the newer Stanleys.
Thanks for the extra brand recommendation 👍. I don't see Sargent here. Nice to hear another fan of the more modern Stanley 👌
WS are decent planes as well. The Chapman era Acorns are on par with Sargent. Sedgley with rosewood tote and knob are also fine. Rapier are a cheap copy of Millers Falls but are still fine for rough work. Woden are top notch. Maybe even better than record. I have been restoring and reselling planes to fund my own collection of tools :)
Hi Mihail. That's a good list, thanks for sharing your experience.
@@faceedgewoodworking My pleasure. I have been waiting for quite a while for someone on UA-cam to start focusing on British made hand tools. All due respect to the US, but I think the UK produced the best woodworking tools in the western tradition, saws especially.
@@mihailmihaylov9617 Thank you. Funny you should say that. I'm just going to start restoring an Atkins back saw and I was going to contrast it's straight forward looks to a British saw of the same size.
@@faceedgewoodworking That should make for a great video. Can't wait to see it.
@@mihailmihaylov9617 Thanks, I genuinely appreciate the encouragement.
I picked up a Stanley Bailey G12-003 Made in England No 3 size plane a while back. I think they were made in the 70s or 80s. I was curious to try a No 3, in the US a made in England plane is a novelty. Overall the plastic handles fit my hands well and are WAY better than the current Stanley plastic. My only complaint is the chip breaker / cap iron was stamped with a skew. I bought an older vintage bade and cap iron to fix that. A bit of sanding to remove any trace of the mold line, and a couple of coats Tru-Oil gun stock finish and most people do not even realize that the handles are not rosewood. Good worker for the $60 investment (with extra blade & breaker)
Nice! A good handle is a good handle. Solid plastic properly shaped is just fine, so sad they lowered their standards and went for hollow plastic.
Cap irons don't worry me too much because shaping them is easy work with a file. But you got a spare, glad it all worked out and I appreciate you sharing your experience.
@@faceedgewoodworking You are right, the soft steel of a cap iron is easy to work. I do like to have a spare iron and finding a spare iron with better formed chip breaker was only a few extra dollars. I did make the skewed one to work, but it was so wonky that it never worked well. The bend to form the hump is 3 degrees off.
On another note, it seems that England held onto hand tool woodworking longer than the US. I have a Stanley 13-030 Plough and 13-052 Combination planes, they have funky plastic handles but they are comfortable and both work well for less than the cost of a single Stanley 45, 50 or Record 43, 45. It would be great to hear your thoughts on other tools that help fill out your kit.
@@darinomtvedt1958 Hi Darin. Thanks for that feedback. I'd be delighted to share more. I'm starting that journey here www.faceedgewoodworking.com/ with more to follow here on the channel.
Handyman can be made into a scrub or simple jack on a budget.
Woden is a decent brand as well.
Millers falls, is that cap iron construction not to not having to remove the top part of the cap when removing the burr on the mirror side during sharpening?
If anyone's in continental Europe, giving E.C.E. and Ulmia wooden planes a shot might be worth it. Readily available on the second hand market and can be had for ~20€.
The brand new Stanley I bought around 2014 worked okay, but I'll have to get it back out and see how I like it with some years of experience with an older record now.
Did the prices for no 4s in the UK drop a bit? I see them around 20-30 now, I recall you couldn't get any decent ones under 40.
Cheers, David
Hi David! I'm not much Into scrub planes unless I had an old beam to texture.
I might be missing something on the Millers Falls, the cap iron has to be taken off just the same for honing.
Good call on WODEN, we have a No 5 at work! Should have thought of that.
Thanks for sharing your experience with continental planes, I don't have any working knowledge of them.
As far as I know, prices for good vintage No.4 planes have always been pretty low, there's just so many of them. Unlike the less common No.8 or shoulder planes.
@@faceedgewoodworking True, a scrub will only be useful for doing stock prep by hand, though a cambered jack might be handy for things like tapers or getting one side flatter for the power jointer.
UK ebay sadly comes with ~25 on top for shipping, customs and taxes, so I rarely use it these days. If you're familiar with Richard Maguire, he uses an ECE wooden plane in some of his videos. He could probably make a handyman or Silverline sing, though :D
Not sure about the MF either, only saw it in your thick plane iron video and thought if you just put the foremost 3/4" or so on the honing stone, it might work; it's still just a wild guess.
You should drop by the r/woodworking discord, if that is a medium you use; bunch of nice and knowledgeable people there and some focus on hand-tools.
Oh, you had that dedicated video on that MF construction; I forgot.
@@drekowski Thanks David. The scrub just doesn't feature in the British tradition. It's been Jack, Try and smooth. There's not really much mention of even working across the grain which seems the fashionable thing to do. This is illustrated well in Peter Nicholson's text and what's in Benjamin Seaton's chest.
I appreciate the invite onto the discord. I must admit, I don't know what discord is 😂, I'm very old fashioned.
Richard is a good chap, very straight forward approach, I like it!
Hello, as far wooden planes go, I've had luck with Pinie. While they are unusable out of the box, the construction and quality of steel are quite good. Chip breakers always need attention and are a bit fiddly when attaching to the iron, but work fine. All that for a quarter of a price of Ulmia (last time I checked). I have four so far, two smoothers, one scrub, one kind of jack/jointer (52 cm body). Wood on wood contact and low weight are terrific when using a longer plane and since I do a lot of dimensioning by hand, the jointer is one of my favourite planes. Higly reccomended for anyone who is looking for a larger plane, go for wooden rather than cast plane.
Woden, Sargent, some of the older Swedish manufactured hand planes are good…
A great shout! We have a WODEN at work, decent 👌
I have a silly number of planes really - nearly every bench plane from 3 to 8 (no 7 yet) mostly Stanley and Record. Almost all are 1950s or 60s vintage English made. Nothing to choose between them really quality wise. My 1928 USA no 5 1/2 works well, but there is nothing inherently better than the post war English planes. The only plane I ever bought new is a Record 04 from the early 90s - the box says Calvert Stevens on it, but inside it’s a bog standard Record with wooden handles. It works fine, but because it lives in its box I don’t tend to use it much. I like my Record 06 a lot, but a recently acquired Stanley 4 1/2 is fast becoming my favourite. All these have standard irons except the 06 and 5 1/2 which were sharpened away to virtually nothing when I got them. Not so keen on my dad’s old Rapier no 5 copy with its plastic handles and screw tightened “lever cap” (screw cap?). The lever type is much more convenient. I would avoid Faithfull due to bad experience with a 778 copy which is not properly made and essentially unusable.
Hi Richard. Great collection! Nice to hear that my observations about post WW2 British made planes are pretty accurate. I'm looking forward to moving the No.4s on. I like having a few of interest but they can multiply 😂
@@faceedgewoodworking I am sure your woodworking skills and experience are vastly greater than mine. I have no professional experience - my observations have been formed over a long time as a hobby woodworker. Nevertheless, from what I have seen on your channel we appear to have converged on similar views regarding the merits of various tools. It’s nice to have my firm conviction confirmed that I really don’t need any any £80 chisels or £300 planes to do good work. It would be interesting to hear your views on old & new back saws. I have collected several old dovetail saws and tenon saws, but their teeth are often knackered and need completely recutting. This is a major undertaking and not a skill I am much good at.
@@richardsinger01 Hi Richard. I am a professional and make my living at it. But the stuff I spout off about in my garage has a different direction, but it is at least rooted in practical experience.
You're right that you don't need expensive chisels or planes. I don't begrudge the high price options, in fact I'm relieved they exist and I hope they continue to be made.
On saws, I do buy old ones and it can be a gamble. My view would be for anyone new to woodworking that a new saw would be best. Dealing with a saw is quite nuanced, and even a quality new saw is pretty good value. Save on planes and chisels, spend on saws.
,a cool video keep up the great content.. Thank you…..
Happy to, thanks for the encouragement 😊
@@faceedgewoodworking Thank you very mutch... have a nice day.... see you….
I have never bought from eBay, partly from frustration having spent ages looking and finding at the checkout that the seller doesn’t deliver to my address on a Scottish island. I am also a bit unlucky and probably a bit gullible so I have little confidence that I wouldn’t end up with a metal banana used mainly as a spare hammer by a blacksmith. I bought a new Record and then a new Faithful ( which at least came with a useable block plane). I tried very hard to fettle them after watching many videos on the process. Both had the same problem in that I could get them to take beautiful shavings for a few passes then they would either stop cutting completely or take a huge gouge out of the wood on the next pass. I could only sort this by taking the blade out and resettling it every few passes. Knowing I was beaten I shelled out for a Clifton plane ( I am very lucky to be able to afford to). Suddenly planing became a joy as the plane behaved exactly as I expected it to and I have never looked back.
That's your punishment for living in one of the most beautiful places on earth 😂. New Records and Faithful are a gamble. Good on you for getting a Clifton, is it the old green or the new grey with one piece cap iron?
@@faceedgewoodworking The new grey one and it’s a beautiful object as well as a great tool. I agree I am lucky to live in such a beautiful place and I am (mostly) happy to put up with the little inconveniences that come up now and again 😊
Thank you for saying that post ww2 Bailey pattern planes are GOOD tools. I have one about 1940-1960 and it’s brilliant. My record 5 1/2 is 1930s and they’re both great. No difference at all. I don’t know why people say pre ww2 are superior. I feel validated haha.
James, I'm glad I could reassure you. I wouldn't give up my post WW2 Bailey planes, I'm delighted with them.
The miller falls smoothers with the more standard shape of lever cap are really pleasant to use. I’d say they stand toe to toe with the best of the stanley Bailey series, and they will rarely be priced at much more than 40 dollars in factory original condition.
Most people I can imagine will rush to inform you of the Sargent brand, which in its heyday, was a major competitor of Stanley’s in the hand tool market. Of all the obscure planes that Stanley made, Sargent likely had an apples to apples comparison for about half of them. The truth of the matter is that Sargent didn’t make a fifth as many, which means the current supply is even less than that, which means most collectors are willing to pay more for those planes than somebody in search of a good user. After collecting hand planes for about 4 years, I’ve acquired about 40, encountering maybe a hundred in total, and though only 3 of my hand planes are from the Sargent brand, I bought every one that I came in contact with.
Dunlap was a German tool making company from the same time period. Their hand chisels are superb, and while I wouldn’t jump to say that my #3 size Dunlap smoother is incredible or even any better than the other vintage brands, if the blade is sharp, I won’t think twice about reaching for it.
Anybody still reading this may be surprised to hear that a company that is still to this day producing sheet metal, and even more-so, tires, gave toolmaking a go, although I’m not sure when or to what effect. That company is Firestone. Yes, the same Firestone that you should be driving no matter what you drive, made hand planes. I haven’t done much research about them, but from what I can tell they only made them in sizes that Stanley would describe as a #4, and a #5. Not much of a surprise here. While I’ve never used them, they’re worth looking up, as they look really badass, and the Firestone logo is embossed on the lever cap in all its original glory.
Lastly, the only company that comes to mind that wasn’t mentioned in this video or above in this novel of a UA-cam comment… is Craftsman. If you find yourself in possession of one of these, you should consider whatever you spent on it a loss. Promptly disassemble these planes, maybe keeping the hardware and handle pieces, and depositing the remaining hunks of metal in the nearest trash can to be collected on your scheduled pickup day, so that no other unfortunate soul should be so cursed to think that these tools are in any way, usable or valuable to any but the most foolish of tinkerers.
😂 Brutal sign off with the Craftsman. What's the deal with that whole brand? To my knowledge we didn't have Craftsman range, they did spanners and all sorts right?
Thanks more broadly for the comment which is pretty much a useful resource for anyone 👌. It's good to hear the Millers Falls is a good value option. After seeing the quality, 40 dollars seems very reasonable.
Quite an education on the sergeant brand, is someone reviving that brand? I have a feeling that might be the case.
To my knowledge no sort of revival has happened since the company disestablished in the 60s
I would wholeheartedly recommend early record planes to anyone. I have noticed the prices increasing on them however.
Thank you Hassan. A good choice, I do notice changes in price over time but nothing too silly. Unlike router and shoulder planes!
@@faceedgewoodworking whats you're experience with the stay-set planes? Nothing but good for myself.
@@TheMiniGT Fine, but I don't like the two piece cap iron. I think it's a gimmick 🙁
Now about other brands to look out for and avoid, starting with the positive including the ones you mention Salmen, Woden, WS, Spiers, Preston and last but not least the rarely heard of Sedgley should be reliable buys. Planes by Rapier may be decent enough too, but the details varied a lot over the production period (including a wheel-tightened cap which I know you hate haha).
I now agree it's wise to avoid the likes of Silverline and Faithfull although they can sometimes be decent. I used to champion Faithfull as the owner of a good 'un, but they're far too variable to be a reliable buy for the novice. Good irons though! So definitely worth picking up _only_ for the iron if one stumbles across one for around a fiver.
Unfortunately in the same category is the once-venerable Footprint; unless you know what to look for you could be getting one of their junk planes and not one of the good (or at least better) ones. Whitmore planes roughly similar story. Acorn planes can be okay (not nearly as dreadful as some suggest!) but still nothing to write home about; probably best left to the casual user, again unless you see one for a fiver and want to rob the irons.
That's a very fine list there, Carbide! I forgot about WS, seen them as a sketch in a book but never seen one.
@@faceedgewoodworking Never seen most of these in the flesh! 😊Sadly I live in a relative wasteland for secondhand planes.
This is one of the reasons I champion saving rust buckets for those who don't have easy access to a better selection (or shallow pockets) as I've had to do this a few times. And so far, touch wood, I've never had one that couldn't be disassembled without recourse to a blowtorch...... which is good, because I don't own one LOL. Plus, even though badly corroded irons are frequently an entry in a 'do not buy' checklist the worst iron I've come across (an absolute pitted mess) was salvageable in a reasonable amount of time, without recourse to the Ruler Trick.
@@tungsten_carbide That's a very good point and very well meade. It's easy for me to forget that I have access to lots of excellent used tools at relatively low prices. I'm impressed with how far you've gone with restoring tools!
I upvoted, but I think you did the viewers a minor disservice about planes as rusty as your second example given how quickly and easily such a plane (far from a complete rust bucket) can be cleaned up, and that the process can be mostly hands-off if one chooses - 20-30 minutes of actual work spread over 2-X days, with vinegar/citric acid/molasses solution/rust remover doing all the heavy lifting 🙂
That isn't too much to ask of the new user/learner and the complete disassembly teaches about the anatomy of Bailey-pattern planes so there's some added value there 😎
Hi Carbide. I agree there is definitely value in that plane and we'll cover that in another video. I just wanted to strike a balance. Even buying a second hand tool can be too much of a stretch for some. Thanks for the input though, it's a very valid perspective 👍
wish i could buy, but i was born in Macedonia.
Does the eBay global shipping program not cover Macedonia?
I don't see the made in England stuff over here in the USA. So it always fascinates me. Although I do have a wooden plane with a W. Butcher iron in it. I think that iron is about 185 years old? It's in pretty good condition considering its age except for the obligatory horn chip in the tote. Still usable though. It's Sheffield England. I paid $5 for it. i.postimg.cc/9Q2qrVS8/Blutcher.jpg
I don't imagine you do, Paul. I think it made sense to make them here, import taxes and what not. I think we did supply the US in colonial times, but it wasn't long before you were self sufficient 😉. That's a decent looking try plane 👍
I bought a few Made in England stanley planes locally, and I live in Southern California.
@@What_Other_Hobbies They're a long way from home!
@@faceedgewoodworking They are indeed. So is your Miller Falls one.
@@What_Other_Hobbies Touché