Even if Matt wins the legal side (which does seem unlikely but could take years to decide), he has lost the moral/ethical side. A foundation of the FOSS world is that you play fair. When that foundation is eroded it’s to the detriment of the whole movement.
@@WPTuts The damage Matt is doing is immeasurable. It goes way beyond ACF and WP Engine. His actions are taking advantage of FOSS for monopolistic purposes. Just a reminder to read what you sign devs.
@@abrotherinchrist no dev in the WordPress space signed that their plugin gets replaced, right? Man, we got some topics to chat about at work tomorrow :D
The hostile hijack of the plugin is bad enough, but did you notice they haven't even taken the ACF logo out (4:02). What Matt Mullenweg has done is a supply chain attack on the users of ACF. It's not a fork, it's theft.
@@polarxta2833 are you a lawyer? I am not so won't make statement about what is and isn't legal... dealt with the legal system enough to know that is folly. But the issue here is as a user who doesn't care about the big boys fighting, I trust WordPress and the way they are doing this way way less than ever before. This will tarnish both players, but in my perspective WPEngine isn't actively trying to hurt us to get their way (that I am aware of).
It's not theft, because that's what GPL allows. And that applies to everyone. Basically, you can buy all paid WP plugins and themes and redistribute them for free. Or you can simply resell them yourself, changing the names and documentation. So far, hardly anyone has done this on this scale, but what happens if it catches on?
@@pixelhustenthat is so wrong, just because a proprietary plugin runs on or touches an open source system, that doesn't make your plugin open source. By that logic any script run on a Linux server would become open source
This entire scenario sends a very negative message to outsiders. The implication is that if you become too successful on WordPress, the platform will essentially extort a cut of your profits. If you resist, they'll ban you and seize control of your plugins and themes. How is this justified? This is happening at a time when it's more important than ever for WordPress to protect its market share and bring in new users. Their public messaging, meanwhile, is almost juvenile.
Agreed, I really don't see how people can support Matt in this case, dude even admitted the trademark angle is weak sauce. He just seems to be on a massive ego trip.
Over 2 Million ACF installs, 1.5 million WPE sites. All are users with no stake in the game, and we end up being the kids stuck in the middle of divorce. And Matt is the super petty parent.
@@minimeiauw4 I have yet to meet one person that thought they were anything more than a hosting company, or someone that missed the revisions that was excluded. I have met numerous companies or people that use ACF regularly. And worked for agencies that nearly exclusively used WPE.
Web developer for a large tech services company, we have around 100 sites using wordpress (many others using laravel etc). We have been using ACF pro installed via composer for years and have no plans to use SCF. Were on WPEngine's side in this whole Matt induced drama.
Not good for Wordpress, not good for the WP community and certainly not good for plugin developers (new and old). After being a long time WP user I have to now ask myself should I still use WP and continue to condone Matt's abhorrent and un-professional behavior by proxy or start looking at other platforms. This is a purely ethical decision I will now have to make, but overall my feeling is it's all such a downer and a shame that it has come to this. Thanks for giving us the full picture Paul, worrying times indeed.
Totally agree. I've been building WP sites for 17 years, and for the first time, I would like to move all my sites to another platform and will caution the university where I work about investing any resources in WordPress.
Thank you for a reasonable view of the situation. You mentioned in passing something like …”that is a question for another video…” Looking forward to that other video, and perhaps a series? Wordpress is in crisis, and in crisis there is opportunity. Hopefully we Wordpress users will be fortunate enough to benefit from whatever changes happen.
My workplace's agency is heavily invested in WPE hosting and plugins to power their custom product. I've got a big meeting with a lot of people to look forward to tomorrow, thanks Matt!
Matt's message is pretty alarming. So if you make a Wordpress plugin that a lot of people enjoy using then Wordpress might just decide to add it to their core features? Why would any plugin developers want to take the time to build a plugin if they think it may just get "taken" from them?
@@vaughanprint There are many cases of developers work being pulled into a core product because it is very good. So that should not be a worry but a potential win for you and your code... unless you want it to be separate in all rights.. But the way it happened in this instance was hostile.
Depends on the intend of adding the plugin to WordPress. If Developer add it for personal gains = They will feel sad they gave it away for free If Developer add it to give something to the WordPress community = Win for the developer and the community
This is what I see happening... Similar as what happened with Radius Server. A group of open source devs will fork WordPress and release it under a new name with ACF free type custom fields, updated UI, remove Gutenberg from core, and make it a plugin. Take functionality from Elementor and bricks and build a proper core site builder. Mark my word after this last week. I'm sure many open source devs are on it. The community has had enough of Matt's childish behavior, and his sudden urge that he feels he needs to be compensated for others' hard work. If thats what he wanted, it shouldn't have released WordPress as open source and free to use as he did to begin with. Even so, he could easily closed source it. Just how Radius server did. It is clear his beef started with WPE but as you can see, it is now with all WP devs and the WP community. The only one who will lose out in the end is Matt.
Came to say same. WP Engine, Namecheap and other hosting companies with dedicated WordPress hosting and enough cash to sprinkle will definitely consider forking WP, rebuild it and sell it independent of the official version. I always knew that someday WP will go south and this sounds like the beginning of it all.
It's seems the get-around is the small print stating Wordpress has the right to 'take over' the plugin if there's a security issue. Which is what Paul is saying they manufactured. It seems like a grey area legally ie. a court argument. I don't know enough about the argument to decide whether it's more ethically black and white or not.
@@toby-green Honestly, no one would want to contribute to a project if simply taking over a repository and calling it a 'fork' were possible on GitHub. This misconception seems common and reveals a much bigger issue. There is no problem with the GPL that allows forking-that’s expected. The concern is that the WordPress plugin repository enables what feels like an arbitrary 'takeover clause,' as we saw with the ACF-to-SCF situation. If GitHub operated under similar rules and allowed repository hijacking, open source would be in total chaos.
There are two key concepts that come to mind after hearing this news: altruistic narcissism and moral licensing. It's troubling to witness this behavior, especially when it's framed as being for the greater good. Altruistic narcissism: describes someone who believes they are acting for a noble cause, but in reality, their actions are driven by self-interest and ego. They justify harmful behavior by convincing themselves they are doing it for the benefit of others. Meanwhile, moral licensing occurs when someone believes that their good deeds' give them the moral authority to act unethically elsewhere. As you rightly mentioned, his actions are setting a dangerous precedent, and it’s clear from his own statements that he feels entitled to take advantage of others. In a post that openly communicates his intent, he essentially admits to exploiting anyone he deems suitable for his purposes. This willingness to manipulate under the guise of doing something beneficial for the community is not only damaging but also undermines the very values of openness and collaboration that initiatives like open-source are meant to uphold. It's a disappointing display of self-serving behavior disguised as a higher calling.
I still thought it was very awkward to change such a long-established name. But now it's clear! Thank you! Just took me some time, but I've switched back to ACF on all my client websites.
If I understand this, you have ACF, now WP comes in and replaces ACF with SCF for you? This is Hostile Takeover. I just updated ACF as per WPTuts instructions in a previous video, so, I think, I am in safe side. Not happy, we are not supposed to be taking sides.
@@fabianmunoz7365 Totally, AI is going to make editing pages using WordPress feel like being an elevator operator (using Elon Musk's example here). Full transition is still a decade away, and we need to bridge that time and transition with something meaningful.
@@CornelisTerblanche The sad thing is that so many people have invested a significant amount of cash into their Buidstack on top of WordPress. This tower is coming down. I appeared on Bridge Builders a couple of months ago, demonstrating how the web stack is the foundation of WordPress and all the builders on top. I discussed the risk of relying on that and now it's a platform risk…
Perfectly explained. Like I said on the fb group, I still think that we cannot stop at just commentating. We need to quantify the numbers of people and then make it known to the community, WP, MM and WPE that this community is more than just a few major players. Words need to be put into actions.
This will affect the wordpress ecosystem because developer now will think twice before contributing and supporting wordpress which has already started...😔
They should have thought about it BEFORE now.. especially when the licensing of WP clearly ALREADY tells you this could happen. So after putting all of your eggs in the WP basket, now developers are shocked? If you started and then grew a successful company like ACF, then you (your lawyers) should have already been fully aware that YOU are building your WHOLE business off the code base of a GPL'd license code base... that would be YOUR negligence.
@@BGdev305 It's easy to say "I told you so," but you're not addressing the OP's point that FUTURE developers will think twice about contributing to WP, thereby stunting the entire ecosystem. Matt's petty move is ultimately harmful to the entire community, whether they are devs or not.
Good video on explaining what has gone on. From what I understand, it appears WordPress has hijacked the ACF code for itself. Moving forward, we'll probably see the ACF functionality native in WordPress because it is so popular. The way this situation has been orchestrated has been very naughty though. I can fully understand that ACF developers will be very upset about having their hard work ripped from under them and thousands of uses quietly moved to SCFs. I can see why developers of popular code will now be nervous uploading code to the repository. I am now aware of the situation but I am a user of code - not a developer. I personally think what has happened is unfair. Developers of popular code will need to be wary if they want to retain their user base heh.
ive been having quiet some fun with Directus, its a more backend-driven cms, but has many of the wordpress concepts, including plugins & theming. Plus, its like ACF builtin on steroids. You have all kinds of fields and relations out of the box, batteries included.
This action is so eggregious that it makes me wonder who might be putting pressure on Mullenweg to cause this chaos...especially right now. Like many other things, it's been developing in the last few months before the election. But aside of that, this really throws a wrench into the trust that Wordpress Developers and users have in the platform. I'm semi-retired and on my way out...... but I'm sure there are many, many others who need to look seriously at this...considering the future of their endeavors on this platform.
Very clear presentation of the background. Thank you. WP is going odd ways and as a developer I shall look to other CMSses (Automattic's huger for money, etc.).
@@dazman88 im sure he will add the pro features as well. WP Engine is a paid platform using a FREE environment. Like shopify but they use wordpress that is FREE. Do you get it? It's like you're selling branded air.
After reading all comments, I think we are missing the bigger picture. What is actually happening, is simply a re-action to a cooperate tech-giant's, Silver Lake, shady ways of abusing the open source community. Which they have done repeatedly, not just to WordPress. This has nothing to do with WordPress or Automattic, changing their philosophy on what is fair treatment of open source plugin developers. I think the message is something like, "Hey, Silver Lake! Here, have a taste of your own medicine." The ACF "takeover" just happens to be the language that Silver Lake might understand..
With this, the 18th point on the plugins guidelines, basically means "please, forget the 17 previous points. We can take possession of your plugin in any moment..."
Whether this is the end of WordPress as we know it depends on whether this is the tip of the iceberg or if there’s worse to come from Matt & Automattic.
He is not mentally healthy. Also I guarantee he is reading this. He has been going around looking at what people say about him, and responding to some of it in Muskian fashion
good summary! - Finally integrating custom fields into wp would have been really necessary and extremely welcome. But the way it apparently happened here unfortunately seems a bit dubious. - The question is, why is it happening in this strange way: what is behind it?
I'm not sure why Matt suddenly got a bee in his bonnet. Lots of Redditors speculate it's from new funding partner pressure. But he's been making / taking some very questionable public statements / actions. Demanding 8% of a company's revenue, then cutting them off from the ecosystem (breaking millions of customer websites in the process), then performing a hostile takeover of said company's app is absolutely wild. This could be the beginning of the end.
Well well well, an Eye for an Eye isn't this something , I wasn't aware of this but i am glad you have shared with us, can't wait to install it and play with it :D
I remember a time, a very long time ago, when WP was boring and programming channels took no notice, and you only found a few JS developers who bashed it in the comments section. Feels like New Years Eve, Times Square, at the moment for WP....There is no way any of this public drama can help the marketing of WP as a viable choice, I really wish this would have been done in a boring courtroom away from the reporters and the public. So many have so much invested in this CMS that hopefully it will all calm down and be the boring CMS it was a few weeks ago.....
My company is actually in the process of changing our site to no longer use WordPress because of the way the database is structured. This was all started before the issues with WP Engine and Matt but I am glad we are living it behind.
@@JKNProductions I here talk of the way the CMS is stuctures and having looked at it from time to time, the database tables that is, I have remarked how it doesn't seem normalised in the way we were taught about this on a HDip course about ten years ago.
@@vaughanprint yea it is not normalized at all. Mostly because the structure has not changed since the beginning. Some plugins are started to become more normalized.
All plugins are GPL. Getting listed on the WP repository is a different matter. "Developers who create plugins and themes for WordPress are obligated to adhere to the stipulations of the GNU General Public License (GPL). This requirement dictates that all WordPress plugins and themes-whether initially developed or modified-must be distributed under the GPL or a compatible license."
Thanks for shedding some light on this, Paul! Keen to see some videos with updates. Do we know what the original security issue was with ACF? Must be big to start all this ... Or not after seeing that screenshot!
Sir, i have advance themer ...Since ACF and ACF Pro available with Advance Themer, i hope ACF and ACF Pro can be used safely on any WordPress websites... please clear my confusion about ACF and ACF Pro usage on any WordPress websites... Warm regards, Vivek Kumar
Excellent and very informative video. Your insights are always thoughtful and professional. It got me thinking-if WordPress can fork and take ownership of Advanced Custom Fields (ACF), what would stop a company like Elementor, Bricks, or Breakdance from doing something similar? For instance, they could create a new ecosystem with elements like "Elementor Core" (a fork based on WordPress), "Elementor Editor" (the free version), and "Elementor Editor Pro" (the current Elementor Pro). If WordPress can take this approach, why can’t others follow suit?
I wholeheartedly agree. Uncertainty was introduced into a stable environment. The rules of the game were suddenly significantly changed. If Mat continues like this, parallel repositories will be created and many other consequences will be set in motion. Ultimately, this will be to the detriment of WP itself.
Wow… WOW and at a time WP (the slowest to add improvements of all mass web design platforms) has never more needed positive additions and growth forward
I don't think keeping the repository changes the fact that it's a fork, after all those previous reviews still apply since it's the same software. If a plugin developer is afraid of this then the solution is simple: Make a premium plugin (those are not GPL and therefore can't be taken). That said, I think this is the first step towards integrating SCF into core, and I wouldn't be surprised if the ACF Pro features are added separately as well. And as far as I'm concerned this is long overdue. WordPress is the only CSM that doesn't have native custom fields.
New SCF "Stolen Custom Fields" plugin ruined my 1139 client that i serve for decade, because we have specific inheritance code from origin plugin. Broken our front-end clients in night. This is disgusting. This is not Forking. They are thief.
What’s the situation for the paid pro ? If pro can’t be overtaken by Wordpress, then I assume that more and more functionality will go to the paid plugins to Avoid be hijacked by Wordpress
There are obviously huge benefits to listing free plugins in the repository and then upselling paid versions. If there are no free versions or the free versions are not offering real value a great source of potential clients is lost.
That’s an astute thought. What’s the point of putting functionality into your free plugin that can just be hijacked. This whole situation must be massively demotivating for plugin developers
How are these actions by Automattic supposed to encourage more core development and not scare everyone off WordPress because they’re afraid of getting locked out of a repo and having their code “forked” and renamed something else?
So I'm torn now I'm reasonably new to this and was considering buying ACF based on your tutorials. Now I wonder do I do the right thing, or are they going to disappear and I should have gone SCF anyway if it becomes core. This feels incredibly unethical what WP have done/are doing
ACF Pro isn't affected by this situation and I have no reason at this point in time to stop using ACF Pro. SCF on the other hand, I'm not installing that on any project as the future of that plugin is dubious to say the least.
@@WPTuts Great thanks. My instinct is I'd rather go ACF pro just to support them because I think what's happening is pretty disgusting so if you're saying from a technical point you feel that's OK I'll go with that. Thanks for the quick reply and thanks for all your hard work.
As I understand it, the issue started when Matt sent a letter saying that WP Engine pay a royalty of 8% of revenues to Wordpress. WP Engine claims to have developers contributing to core. There was a provision in the letter that the salaries of the WP Engine devs working on core could count toward that 8%. Seems fair. But since Wordpress core is GPL, what is the royalty for? It was for the use of the Wordpress logo and WP initials in WP Engine, according to Wordpress. There were other conditions that were too onerous to accept, so WP Engine refused the offer saying that using the Wordpress logo and WP initials are "fair use". From there, it should have gone to court. It's a trademark dispute. Matt still could have quietly subsumed ACF into core if he wanted. He could have held off the draconian measures of worg delisting. It was a card he didn't have to play so soon. The threat of worg delisting would have increased the chances of a settlement, and the community would not have been disrupted. Unfortunately, Matt seems to be saying, "It's not enough that I win, they have to lose", and that loss needs to be their revenue. I'm pretty sure WP Engine hosted users won't be moving to Wordpress.com but to other hosting providers. Am I missing something?
I’m a subscriber here for the practical guidance; the WP politics are not for me. Not a developer. As a user, I’ve agreed with those who stated that a good custom fields capability is overdue to be part of the core of a CMS platform, without the need for a plugin. The ACF/SCF drama shouldn’t even be a thing.
In many respects yes, CPTs, custom fileds and relationships, should have been rolled into WP over ten years ago. That's assuming that those in charge were able to see the value in these additions at the time. Unfortunately there is every indication that the top bottle washers can't envision WP beyond it's blogging/publishing capeablities which has meant a lot of hard work on the part of third party develelpers doing the all heavy lifting. It's very disingenuous to see what's going on with what in effect is poaching by the landlord.
@@vaughanprint Custom fields and CPTs has actually been part of WP core there for over 10 years. What was severely lacking is a good UI and UX to build the fields and manage them, especially the custom fields. Frankly, this should be among many features that should have received development focus in the past 5 years instead of wasting time in that same period on just Gutenberg alone.
@@teugene I think this is the core issue, excuse the pun, the facility to implent them is there, just not the UI. When a platform puports to be for everyone and then elects to hide or hide the functioinality and features then I suggest somebody is just fecking around and not to serious about the softwares potential, beyond just being a platform for blogging… sorry to be so blunt about it.
@@MeppyMan It wouldn't be that difficult. WPE has the resources. They should just take the code and release it under a new nonprofit entity. Everything would port. If all the unpaid dev contributors ceased doing free labor for Matt and jumped over to support the new product, it'd be off to the races.
I checked it out and found ClassicPress (No built-in Gutenberg). This wordpress fork is the most promising one . People started to gather there because of what Matt did. There're many problems. 1. too few themes an plugins. 2. No good pagebuilder but I can install Gutenberg plugin . it's hard to switch from wordpress because there is no major plugins compatible 🥲 . Some plugins can be installed but they are very old version . ClassicPress is fork of wordpress 4.9
After thinking this through, I've come up with a theory that this is actually a much higher-level game. My theory is that it has nothing to do with WP org and only with WP com, which is a direct competitor to WP Engine. And this game is being played by adding WP org (ACF) as a means to an end, simply a strategic move in a larger game. Open source is being used to strengthen strategic positions, but in the end it has become a commercial battle. So it's not WP Engine versus WP org, but mattic versus Silver lake. Sorry for the strange abbreviations but my message keeps getting deleted.
Thanks for clarifying. Just wondered why ACF suddenly was SCF. Totally on your side. This is not good at all. Hope this will not be the end of the wordpress as we know it.
Mullenweg is going from bad to worse. Banning WP Engine from the WordPress repository was retaliatory against what is - at its core - a trademark dispute. Adding a disclaimer to the sign-up form requiring you to renounce any ties to WP Engine was just plain childish. This latest move to take over ACF - whether "legal" or not - is at *best* a major dick move at worst the death knell for WordPress. Open-source software depends a lot on the community's goodwill, and Matt just tossed 20 years of hard-earned goodwill out the window. WordPress is not the #1 website CMS because it's a better technical solution - it's #1 because of its robust library of 3rd party plugins and themes. If you lose the devs you lose what makes WordPress the popular choice and eventually you lose the race to the next best thing.
No single person, including Mullenweg, should have as much influence on an open source project as WordPress. There should be more democratic processes involving the entire community. Mullenweg is a co-founder of WordPress, but should that give him a dominant role over all others who have also made major contributions?
Soooo, this is deeply worrying to everyone who loves WordPress and the many, many developers and plugins, themes etc that are available for WP. My concerns are many. First, should I continue to invest time and money building sites in WordPress? Secondly, what about all those who have invested in premium plugins and themes? Thirdly, why should the likes of Elegant Themes and Elementor (to name just 2) continue to support WordPress? Another thought is what about AI in all of this. The likes of Hostinger and Wix already offfer ways to build websites using AI that don't use WordPress. Isn't it short-sighted to alienate developers when WordPress is facing threats from AI site builders?
Something else interesting is that Pods Custom Post Types plugin now keeps malfunctioning for me. Fresh install, 2024 theme, Pods the only plugin. Breaks after a few days. Seems to me that wordpress took ACF to eventually implement as a new feature. Can't have a competitor like Pods hanging around. I could be wrong in suspecting wp to be who to blame for the Pods issue but once you do something slimy, you lose trust. Time to find a new CMS for me.Too bad the dev of b2evolution retired. There's ClassicPress, a pre 5.0 fork of wp and ACF works on it. Now I have to redo all my Pods in ACF.
I agree with Matt. But not with the claim for compensation. That killed his claim for me, as it defeated the crusade to keep wordpress open to EVERYONE without friction or 3rd party take overs.. which is extremely important for the web.
Before I eventually felt forced to move to WP because the ecosystem was so vast, I used a system called Mambo. There were internal wranglings there and a version called Joomla forked from Mambo. I liked Joomla but the lack of developer interest made it impossible to stick with it. I guess WP has to protect it's big developers to continue dominating with the depth and breadth of its ecosystem.
I still use Joomla and WP and agree. Joomla would do well to fix its 'types' up and be a worthy competitor to WP instead of be held back by its programmer gatekeepers. Now is a great time to do this.
It's a disgusting move, even if it's legal. ACF is one of the biggest, most well regarded plugins in use and to just 'fork it' (which they didn't do) is if not criminal, sleazy. In the end it's a hostile takeover gone wrong.
Over the last few years Wordpress has become a monetized wild west. Premium themes, plugins, forks and everything really go against the ethos that started way back when Wordpress started. But IMHO it is still *just* the best out there, that may change in the future though
I am not an expert but does that mean that anyone could fork off WP into another Platform or what will be the future should the ecosystem totally fold because of this?
Can someone explain to me the pro-Matt side? I'm trying to figure it out and most of the comments seem to disagree with him. What is his steel man argument for doing this? Is it something along the lines of "WPEngine used Wordpress without giving back now I'll use ACF without giving back?" Like there has to be a legitimate reason right?
It honestly feels like Matt should be in a mental institution and not in front of a computer right now. He's actively destroying WordPress before our very eyes without any consideration for the user base. What a complete and utter ****.
This is setting a very concerning precedent. If this leads to other successful plugin developers leaving the platform, based on concern of having their code hijacked and absorbed into WP core, then the entire community is going to suffer. Not a good situation.
It feels like the kind of power struggle that's using rhetoric of "theft" for the optics to blame one another in a way that's confusing to the user. I'm trying to parse out which fork in the road to take and I'm having to do a major deep dive on the dynamics to figure out what I actually think. Open source values don't match up to capitalism's assumptions about intellectual property so playing on low information users by talking about "stealing" and all that is not helpful and actually damaging. I don't think anyone involved is helping the cause of liberation from capitalism, because of course they long ago plugged into the profit seeking vibe and if we do that without being vigilant of our own motives, we fall prey to love of money. I hope everyone involved decides to take a step back and do some reflection. How is humanity being served by this spiral into domination, power, and control?
At the end of the day, this controversy largely revolves around money. While many are criticizing Matt Mullenweg, it's important to note that numerous developers who have plugins in the WordPress repository also offer premium versions or are developing them to generate revenue. WordPress doesn't receive a cut from these premium offerings, yet it provides a free CMS that these developers rely on. Consider how many of those complaining would be willing to sacrifice their profits by switching to another CMS that offers only a fraction of WordPress's capabilities. Even if developers were to adopt a headless approach, the question remains: how much are agencies and developers prepared to invest in resources to make such a transition? People may be overly sensitive to these developments. It's crucial to understand that while changes are likely, they don't necessarily signal the demise of WordPress. Instead, this situation may lead to a reevaluation of the relationship between the platform, its contributors, and the businesses that profit from it.
I think I would agree with you more if WP's success was due solely to its core development. But WP owes a LOT of its success, popularity, and brand recognition to the multitude of developers who have extended WP's capabilities and to all the web hosts offering one-click installation, making it the de facto software that most people use. Matt seems to think he deserves all the credit, when this is absolutely not the case. This is like when you have a manager who fires one of their best and highest performing employees, thinking they are easily replaceable and not realizing that the business was successful because of them, and then the company goes out of business within a year. His ego will be his ruination. The question is, is there a good alternative waiting in the "right time, right place" wings, like WP was when it first gained in popularity? Or are we going to see a bunch of newcomers rise over the next year or two and totally fracture the web development landscape?
Yep. It seems few people commenting in here understand GPL and OpenSource. It might be a good idea for @Paul to explain this because it changes the story considerably. Plugin creators are working under GPL, and profit is being made fro services around that code. They take the risk knowing what could happen. The fact this is the first 'hostile' takeover is actually very telling of how patient Matt has been.
Why doesn't someone fork WordPress in it's entirety and then make a brand new modern intuitive dashboard with granular control and display of controlpanel elements based on say userroles or something else?
I REALLY wish people would stop using an argument to attack WP one day e.g. using GPL "rules" and THEN use the same argument in the opposite direction.
Okay, here is my nice and polite comment. If you owned a business would you yield 8% of your revenues to an Open Source project? Would you? When WP Engine refused they were then asked for more than 8%! This is when they were attacked openly and overtly by MM. He disparaged them at WCUS robbing us of a State of the Word like nice and polite presentation. Then he overtly attacked the millions of ACF users by hijacking their ACF plugin(s). WP Engine did not attack whatsoever. This is extortion on the simplest terms; nothing complicated here my friends. Have a nice and polite day!
I think WP plugin developers now can start feeling themselves like mommy's entrepreneurs who planned to build business by developing custom GPTs. And very soon OpenAI told them: "Thank you very much for all your ideas and testing for free" :)
Thank you for the summary. This seems to happen with every platform. I remember when Facebook changed from their original more open developer system to closing the door and keeping user data. When twitter changed from free API calls to paid. It also happens in other industries. It's capitalism.
We’re actively looking at Statamic too. I’ve built one site with it. Peak stater kit is amazing, add so much. Overall really love the platform but it is a very different way of working
For me, it is like some other people that think from 2500 years ago, the earth or at least part of it, is their own land and they can do what ever they want to the people, animals, farms, etc. It's very wild and unacceptable.
I really don't see how this is too far away from the various "GPL" plugin clubs that have sprung up taking advantage of the GPL licence and developers hard work.
This is the equivalent of a "Man in the Middle" attack via plugin repository. Definitely a hostile takeover, a "fork" wouldn't have hijacked the old plugin's install base.
After over a decade in trademark service mark and add value development ..I knew this from the start.. WP prime can roll anything into core for the benefit of the community… this a benefit of 2 million users is a clear path benefit… Clearly Developers know this risk going in… and claiming ignorance…. Is not forgivable.. we know the deal in the beginning it was his stuff and in the end it’s his stuff… the best way forward well that’s a whole other decade of collaborative true open source development.. This stuff just makes me smile… look at Adobe it’s just the same beast just exposed….. I may be a bit out there but an antitrust angle is brewing….. as there was only the illusion of trust on Matt’s part…. He is the King… What a great bait and switch
Yep. Mainly people who don't really know whats going on being suprised and upset by this. And in my view it was a good move to stabilise an important part of the platform. I wonder if one can still upgrade to PRO version though.
@@polarxta2833 there is an unstated premise in your argument and a false dichotomy. There were other ways to play this out by both parties. Matt has a history of doing spiteful things from the stories I have read.
@@polarxta2833 Why should WPE give anything back? ACF is the reason WP took off. I've been with both since the beginning. WP was just a blog before Elliot introduced ACF. It was game-changing.
@@ontheruntonowhere WPE bought ACF. Elliot built it and it also went through Deliious Brains which everybody forgets. WP is still a blog frankly. ACF lets it do a lot more but its post_meta system stops it being seriously scalable, preferring ease of compatibility across plugins. WPE are the Venture Capital company that everybody here (who uses WordPress for free) seems to love, while hating on Matt. Its getting rather silly frankly.
You all are missing the point ... Matt is doing exactly whatever wp engine did with WordPress It's just for proving how wrong it is, he knows it's wrong and that is his point
This is not sounding good. It sounds like a hijack. And even worse, of two elephants fight , the grass suffer. This is happening while we are preparing to lunch our WordPress agency! So confusing
So, WordPress is becoming free to use as long as you pay for it. Matt felt just too much money was lying on the table to finally not pick some of it up. It's all beginning to smell like the end of the line and another example of open-source failure. It's okay if you say we are now a transactional business.
I don't work with WordPress anymore, I don't have a horse in this race. But since the beginning I've always felt Matt's initial arguments were weak. This just cements my feelings that he is a complete scumbag. Legit forking fair enough. Hostile takeover under the guise of a security issue when you've banned the original maintainers from fixing it. Unacceptable in my eyes.
Forking is totally legitimate, taking possession of the listing and the user base and all the hard work in the support section isn’t.
@@maxziebell4013 someone gets it! Wait, that MUST mean you’re supporting WP Engine! 😉
They are totally breaking the laws here.
Even if Matt wins the legal side (which does seem unlikely but could take years to decide), he has lost the moral/ethical side. A foundation of the FOSS world is that you play fair. When that foundation is eroded it’s to the detriment of the whole movement.
@@WPTuts The damage Matt is doing is immeasurable. It goes way beyond ACF and WP Engine. His actions are taking advantage of FOSS for monopolistic purposes. Just a reminder to read what you sign devs.
@@abrotherinchrist no dev in the WordPress space signed that their plugin gets replaced, right? Man, we got some topics to chat about at work tomorrow :D
Matt after watching this video: Welcome to our new UA-cam channel SECURETuts
😂😂
LOL
🤣🤣🤣🤣
The hostile hijack of the plugin is bad enough, but did you notice they haven't even taken the ACF logo out (4:02). What Matt Mullenweg has done is a supply chain attack on the users of ACF. It's not a fork, it's theft.
Regardless, what he did is legal. That's what people kept saying about WPE as justification for their rather dubious methods.
@@polarxta2833 are you a lawyer? I am not so won't make statement about what is and isn't legal... dealt with the legal system enough to know that is folly. But the issue here is as a user who doesn't care about the big boys fighting, I trust WordPress and the way they are doing this way way less than ever before. This will tarnish both players, but in my perspective WPEngine isn't actively trying to hurt us to get their way (that I am aware of).
It's not theft, because that's what GPL allows. And that applies to everyone. Basically, you can buy all paid WP plugins and themes and redistribute them for free. Or you can simply resell them yourself, changing the names and documentation. So far, hardly anyone has done this on this scale, but what happens if it catches on?
@@pixelhustenthat is so wrong, just because a proprietary plugin runs on or touches an open source system, that doesn't make your plugin open source. By that logic any script run on a Linux server would become open source
@@nickm1049you might want to read up on software licenses such as GPL.
This entire scenario sends a very negative message to outsiders. The implication is that if you become too successful on WordPress, the platform will essentially extort a cut of your profits. If you resist, they'll ban you and seize control of your plugins and themes. How is this justified? This is happening at a time when it's more important than ever for WordPress to protect its market share and bring in new users. Their public messaging, meanwhile, is almost juvenile.
Agreed, I really don't see how people can support Matt in this case, dude even admitted the trademark angle is weak sauce. He just seems to be on a massive ego trip.
Over 2 Million ACF installs, 1.5 million WPE sites. All are users with no stake in the game, and we end up being the kids stuck in the middle of divorce. And Matt is the super petty parent.
1.5M wpe users = 1.5M wpe users lured by effective and often miss leading marketing getting totally overpriced hosting and products.
@@minimeiauw4 I have yet to meet one person that thought they were anything more than a hosting company, or someone that missed the revisions that was excluded.
I have met numerous companies or people that use ACF regularly. And worked for agencies that nearly exclusively used WPE.
@@minimeiauw4 Totally wrong mini. I am a WPE User for many clients. They are very good and I am getting my value.
Web developer for a large tech services company, we have around 100 sites using wordpress (many others using laravel etc). We have been using ACF pro installed via composer for years and have no plans to use SCF. Were on WPEngine's side in this whole Matt induced drama.
@@wwade7226 Cause you don't know better. In the land of the blind the one eyed is the king.
Not good for Wordpress, not good for the WP community and certainly not good for plugin developers (new and old). After being a long time WP user I have to now ask myself should I still use WP and continue to condone Matt's abhorrent and un-professional behavior by proxy or start looking at other platforms. This is a purely ethical decision I will now have to make, but overall my feeling is it's all such a downer and a shame that it has come to this. Thanks for giving us the full picture Paul, worrying times indeed.
Agreed!
What else can you use?
Why did Matt this? Did I understand right, that Matt controls the WP-repository, hijacked ACF free, gave another name?
@@AllesKiten It's all because of his war with WP Engine. WP Engine owns ACF.
Totally agree. I've been building WP sites for 17 years, and for the first time, I would like to move all my sites to another platform and will caution the university where I work about investing any resources in WordPress.
Thank you for a reasonable view of the situation. You mentioned in passing something like …”that is a question for another video…” Looking forward to that other video, and perhaps a series? Wordpress is in crisis, and in crisis there is opportunity. Hopefully we Wordpress users will be fortunate enough to benefit from whatever changes happen.
Nicely done on focusing on Point 18. I agree totally with your views. WPE actively fixed the issue asap.
PS - I liked my own reply. And this reply too.
@@websquadron😂
Get my like!
are you allowed to comment on a video about anything gpl? did you talk with your lawyer first?
My workplace's agency is heavily invested in WPE hosting and plugins to power their custom product. I've got a big meeting with a lot of people to look forward to tomorrow, thanks Matt!
We are having our meeting in about 30 min, I sent this video to the rest of the agency so they are up to speed on whats going on.
Matt's message is pretty alarming. So if you make a Wordpress plugin that a lot of people enjoy using then Wordpress might just decide to add it to their core features? Why would any plugin developers want to take the time to build a plugin if they think it may just get "taken" from them?
And when they do poach it, don't hold your breath in the hope that said plugin will ever get more sophisticated updates.
@@vaughanprint Just look at the sad faith of MailPoet… it is totally stagnant… no block editor version. Hardly any progress…
Welcome to GPL and OpeSource.
@@vaughanprint There are many cases of developers work being pulled into a core product because it is very good. So that should not be a worry but a potential win for you and your code... unless you want it to be separate in all rights.. But the way it happened in this instance was hostile.
Depends on the intend of adding the plugin to WordPress.
If
Developer add it for personal gains
= They will feel sad they gave it away for free
If
Developer add it to give something to the WordPress community
= Win for the developer and the community
This situation makes me feel like I came into this at the wrong time 😢. I don't see that going well.
This is what I see happening... Similar as what happened with Radius Server. A group of open source devs will fork WordPress and release it under a new name with ACF free type custom fields, updated UI, remove Gutenberg from core, and make it a plugin. Take functionality from Elementor and bricks and build a proper core site builder. Mark my word after this last week. I'm sure many open source devs are on it. The community has had enough of Matt's childish behavior, and his sudden urge that he feels he needs to be compensated for others' hard work. If thats what he wanted, it shouldn't have released WordPress as open source and free to use as he did to begin with. Even so, he could easily closed source it. Just how Radius server did. It is clear his beef started with WPE but as you can see, it is now with all WP devs and the WP community. The only one who will lose out in the end is Matt.
Came to say same. WP Engine, Namecheap and other hosting companies with dedicated WordPress hosting and enough cash to sprinkle will definitely consider forking WP, rebuild it and sell it independent of the official version.
I always knew that someday WP will go south and this sounds like the beginning of it all.
Doesn’t ACF have a trademark on the name and logo? I mean they still have the logo in the stolen plugin?
Yup, time to sue Wordpress again.
It's seems the get-around is the small print stating Wordpress has the right to 'take over' the plugin if there's a security issue. Which is what Paul is saying they manufactured. It seems like a grey area legally ie. a court argument. I don't know enough about the argument to decide whether it's more ethically black and white or not.
@@toby-green Honestly, no one would want to contribute to a project if simply taking over a repository and calling it a 'fork' were possible on GitHub. This misconception seems common and reveals a much bigger issue. There is no problem with the GPL that allows forking-that’s expected. The concern is that the WordPress plugin repository enables what feels like an arbitrary 'takeover clause,' as we saw with the ACF-to-SCF situation. If GitHub operated under similar rules and allowed repository hijacking, open source would be in total chaos.
They do but SCF is free. As long as he doesn't have direct monetary gain it's not too hard of a lawsuit.
@@TheMarouuu They should remove the logo seen in the video, all I am saying....
Never has been a better moment for you to Review CraftCMS.... !
There are two key concepts that come to mind after hearing this news: altruistic narcissism and moral licensing. It's troubling to witness this behavior, especially when it's framed as being for the greater good.
Altruistic narcissism: describes someone who believes they are acting for a noble cause, but in reality, their actions are driven by self-interest and ego. They justify harmful behavior by convincing themselves they are doing it for the benefit of others. Meanwhile, moral licensing occurs when someone believes that their good deeds' give them the moral authority to act unethically elsewhere.
As you rightly mentioned, his actions are setting a dangerous precedent, and it’s clear from his own statements that he feels entitled to take advantage of others. In a post that openly communicates his intent, he essentially admits to exploiting anyone he deems suitable for his purposes. This willingness to manipulate under the guise of doing something beneficial for the community is not only damaging but also undermines the very values of openness and collaboration that initiatives like open-source are meant to uphold. It's a disappointing display of self-serving behavior disguised as a higher calling.
I still thought it was very awkward to change such a long-established name. But now it's clear! Thank you! Just took me some time, but I've switched back to ACF on all my client websites.
If I understand this, you have ACF, now WP comes in and replaces ACF with SCF for you? This is Hostile Takeover.
I just updated ACF as per WPTuts instructions in a previous video, so, I think, I am in safe side.
Not happy, we are not supposed to be taking sides.
So are we looking at WordPress dystopian future? It might be a good idea to start looking for alternatives.
With the arrival of reliable AI agents WordPress would be no longer needed. This includes ACF and all plugins.
@@fabianmunoz7365 Totally, AI is going to make editing pages using WordPress feel like being an elevator operator (using Elon Musk's example here). Full transition is still a decade away, and we need to bridge that time and transition with something meaningful.
Maybe it is time for a Django CMS revolution
@@CornelisTerblanche The sad thing is that so many people have invested a significant amount of cash into their Buidstack on top of WordPress. This tower is coming down. I appeared on Bridge Builders a couple of months ago, demonstrating how the web stack is the foundation of WordPress and all the builders on top. I discussed the risk of relying on that and now it's a platform risk…
Perfectly explained. Like I said on the fb group, I still think that we cannot stop at just commentating. We need to quantify the numbers of people and then make it known to the community, WP, MM and WPE that this community is more than just a few major players. Words need to be put into actions.
This will affect the wordpress ecosystem because developer now will think twice before contributing and supporting wordpress which has already started...😔
Around 40 million websites run on it. Money is still there.
@@keithframe3489 Try 835 million websites that run on it.
They should have thought about it BEFORE now.. especially when the licensing of WP clearly ALREADY tells you this could happen. So after putting all of your eggs in the WP basket, now developers are shocked? If you started and then grew a successful company like ACF, then you (your lawyers) should have already been fully aware that YOU are building your WHOLE business off the code base of a GPL'd license code base... that would be YOUR negligence.
@@BGdev305 It's easy to say "I told you so," but you're not addressing the OP's point that FUTURE developers will think twice about contributing to WP, thereby stunting the entire ecosystem. Matt's petty move is ultimately harmful to the entire community, whether they are devs or not.
Good video on explaining what has gone on. From what I understand, it appears WordPress has hijacked the ACF code for itself. Moving forward, we'll probably see the ACF functionality native in WordPress because it is so popular. The way this situation has been orchestrated has been very naughty though. I can fully understand that ACF developers will be very upset about having their hard work ripped from under them and thousands of uses quietly moved to SCFs. I can see why developers of popular code will now be nervous uploading code to the repository. I am now aware of the situation but I am a user of code - not a developer. I personally think what has happened is unfair. Developers of popular code will need to be wary if they want to retain their user base heh.
Been looking/hoping for an alternative to wp for a while. Really hope this mess encourages some more options to surface.
ive been having quiet some fun with Directus, its a more backend-driven cms, but has many of the wordpress concepts, including plugins & theming.
Plus, its like ACF builtin on steroids. You have all kinds of fields and relations out of the box, batteries included.
This action is so eggregious that it makes me wonder who might be putting pressure on Mullenweg to cause this chaos...especially right now. Like many other things, it's been developing in the last few months before the election. But aside of that, this really throws a wrench into the trust that Wordpress Developers and users have in the platform. I'm semi-retired and on my way out...... but I'm sure there are many, many others who need to look seriously at this...considering the future of their endeavors on this platform.
Very clear presentation of the background. Thank you. WP is going odd ways and as a developer I shall look to other CMSses (Automattic's huger for money, etc.).
Looking forward to a Matt free fork of wordpress. Wonder who will do it.
Classicpress exists. But really, being its all Matt up to this point how will a Matt free version ever appear and be compatible ?
why? He's really out here trying to make plugins FREE for everyone
@@BS-zp5qk it was already free
@@dazman88 im sure he will add the pro features as well. WP Engine is a paid platform using a FREE environment. Like shopify but they use wordpress that is FREE. Do you get it? It's like you're selling branded air.
After reading all comments, I think we are missing the bigger picture. What is actually happening, is simply a re-action to a cooperate tech-giant's, Silver Lake, shady ways of abusing the open source community. Which they have done repeatedly, not just to WordPress. This has nothing to do with WordPress or Automattic, changing their philosophy on what is fair treatment of open source plugin developers. I think the message is something like, "Hey, Silver Lake! Here, have a taste of your own medicine." The ACF "takeover" just happens to be the language that Silver Lake might understand..
With this, the 18th point on the plugins guidelines, basically means "please, forget the 17 previous points. We can take possession of your plugin in any moment..."
Whether this is the end of WordPress as we know it depends on whether this is the tip of the iceberg or if there’s worse to come from Matt & Automattic.
@@alexmorgan85 the last couple of weeks have taught us that anything is possible right now. 🤷🏼♂️
He is not mentally healthy.
Also I guarantee he is reading this. He has been going around looking at what people say about him, and responding to some of it in Muskian fashion
@@Line49Design Imagine if he spent as much time pushing forward development of Gutenberg as he spends finding out what people are saying about him.
@@Line49Design "Not Mentally Healthy" ? Because you don't agree with him ?
@@polarxta2833 ua-cam.com/video/CB1ZXFiEgJY/v-deo.html&lc=UgyTR8mVQVm7a-Aoz9F4AaABAg.A9HmRxT5HWeA9QCiMKL3T9
The irony that Matt’s claim with WPE is based on WP trademark violations. Then, proceed to steal a WPE plugin listing.
good summary! - Finally integrating custom fields into wp would have been really necessary and extremely welcome. But the way it apparently happened here unfortunately seems a bit dubious. - The question is, why is it happening in this strange way: what is behind it?
I'm not sure why Matt suddenly got a bee in his bonnet. Lots of Redditors speculate it's from new funding partner pressure. But he's been making / taking some very questionable public statements / actions. Demanding 8% of a company's revenue, then cutting them off from the ecosystem (breaking millions of customer websites in the process), then performing a hostile takeover of said company's app is absolutely wild. This could be the beginning of the end.
@@zanzaboondaYeah, his reasoning is that WPE makes shittons of money without contributing as much to WordPress.
Well well well, an Eye for an Eye isn't this something , I wasn't aware of this but i am glad you have shared with us, can't wait to install it and play with it :D
I remember a time, a very long time ago, when WP was boring and programming channels took no notice, and you only found a few JS developers who bashed it in the comments section. Feels like New Years Eve, Times Square, at the moment for WP....There is no way any of this public drama can help the marketing of WP as a viable choice, I really wish this would have been done in a boring courtroom away from the reporters and the public. So many have so much invested in this CMS that hopefully it will all calm down and be the boring CMS it was a few weeks ago.....
My company is actually in the process of changing our site to no longer use WordPress because of the way the database is structured. This was all started before the issues with WP Engine and Matt but I am glad we are living it behind.
The way it should have been handled. 👍
@@JKNProductions I here talk of the way the CMS is stuctures and having looked at it from time to time, the database tables that is, I have remarked how it doesn't seem normalised in the way we were taught about this on a HDip course about ten years ago.
@@vaughanprint yea it is not normalized at all. Mostly because the structure has not changed since the beginning. Some plugins are started to become more normalized.
Thank God Thomas didn’t launched Bricks under GPL license on WordPress repository.
And that he is smart enough to keep developing and not get pulled into the drama....
Yes but WordPress removed his another plugin called Happy File.
@@LuminousLorien Really? Do you know why?
All plugins are GPL. Getting listed on the WP repository is a different matter. "Developers who create plugins and themes for WordPress are obligated to adhere to the stipulations of the GNU General Public License (GPL). This requirement dictates that all WordPress plugins and themes-whether initially developed or modified-must be distributed under the GPL or a compatible license."
Thanks for shedding some light on this, Paul! Keen to see some videos with updates.
Do we know what the original security issue was with ACF? Must be big to start all this ... Or not after seeing that screenshot!
Sir, i have advance themer ...Since ACF and ACF Pro available with Advance Themer, i hope ACF and ACF Pro can be used safely on any WordPress websites... please clear my confusion about ACF and ACF Pro usage on any WordPress websites...
Warm regards,
Vivek Kumar
WOW... Our agentcy just woke up to this news. We use premium version of ACF, but, wow... Time to think
I'm hoping WPEngine wins in court. MM is acting like a dictator right now.
@@pandaosa9 maybe remove ‘tator’ 🤣
@@WPTuts it took me a moment to get it, but 'yes'!
@@WPTuts Now now Paul.
@@WPTuts He's definitely in the running for biggest assh*ole in tech for 2024.
@@WPTuts😂😂😂
Paul, which CMS would you recommend?
Excellent and very informative video. Your insights are always thoughtful and professional. It got me thinking-if WordPress can fork and take ownership of Advanced Custom Fields (ACF), what would stop a company like Elementor, Bricks, or Breakdance from doing something similar? For instance, they could create a new ecosystem with elements like "Elementor Core" (a fork based on WordPress), "Elementor Editor" (the free version), and "Elementor Editor Pro" (the current Elementor Pro). If WordPress can take this approach, why can’t others follow suit?
I wholeheartedly agree. Uncertainty was introduced into a stable environment. The rules of the game were suddenly significantly changed. If Mat continues like this, parallel repositories will be created and many other consequences will be set in motion. Ultimately, this will be to the detriment of WP itself.
Wow… WOW and at a time WP (the slowest to add improvements of all mass web design platforms) has never more needed positive additions and growth forward
I don't think keeping the repository changes the fact that it's a fork, after all those previous reviews still apply since it's the same software. If a plugin developer is afraid of this then the solution is simple: Make a premium plugin (those are not GPL and therefore can't be taken).
That said, I think this is the first step towards integrating SCF into core, and I wouldn't be surprised if the ACF Pro features are added separately as well. And as far as I'm concerned this is long overdue. WordPress is the only CSM that doesn't have native custom fields.
New SCF "Stolen Custom Fields" plugin ruined my 1139 client that i serve for decade, because we have specific inheritance code from origin plugin.
Broken our front-end clients in night. This is disgusting. This is not Forking. They are thief.
I’m a newbie to wordpress. Does this affect the site I used ACF on? Do I need to make any changes?
No, it doesn't. But you'll have to download future updates directly from the ACF website.
No, it doesn't. But you'll have to download future updates directly from the ACF website.
@@lakajaksinThank you for the clarification
What’s the situation for the paid pro ? If pro can’t be overtaken by Wordpress, then I assume that more and more functionality will go to the paid plugins to
Avoid be hijacked by Wordpress
There are obviously huge benefits to listing free plugins in the repository and then upselling paid versions. If there are no free versions or the free versions are not offering real value a great source of potential clients is lost.
That’s an astute thought. What’s the point of putting functionality into your free plugin that can just be hijacked. This whole situation must be massively demotivating for plugin developers
How are these actions by Automattic supposed to encourage more core development and not scare everyone off WordPress because they’re afraid of getting locked out of a repo and having their code “forked” and renamed something else?
So I'm torn now I'm reasonably new to this and was considering buying ACF based on your tutorials. Now I wonder do I do the right thing, or are they going to disappear and I should have gone SCF anyway if it becomes core. This feels incredibly unethical what WP have done/are doing
ACF Pro isn't affected by this situation and I have no reason at this point in time to stop using ACF Pro. SCF on the other hand, I'm not installing that on any project as the future of that plugin is dubious to say the least.
@@WPTuts Great thanks. My instinct is I'd rather go ACF pro just to support them because I think what's happening is pretty disgusting so if you're saying from a technical point you feel that's OK I'll go with that. Thanks for the quick reply and thanks for all your hard work.
As I understand it, the issue started when Matt sent a letter saying that WP Engine pay a royalty of 8% of revenues to Wordpress. WP Engine claims to have developers contributing to core. There was a provision in the letter that the salaries of the WP Engine devs working on core could count toward that 8%. Seems fair. But since Wordpress core is GPL, what is the royalty for? It was for the use of the Wordpress logo and WP initials in WP Engine, according to Wordpress. There were other conditions that were too onerous to accept, so WP Engine refused the offer saying that using the Wordpress logo and WP initials are "fair use".
From there, it should have gone to court. It's a trademark dispute. Matt still could have quietly subsumed ACF into core if he wanted. He could have held off the draconian measures of worg delisting. It was a card he didn't have to play so soon. The threat of worg delisting would have increased the chances of a settlement, and the community would not have been disrupted. Unfortunately, Matt seems to be saying, "It's not enough that I win, they have to lose", and that loss needs to be their revenue. I'm pretty sure WP Engine hosted users won't be moving to Wordpress.com but to other hosting providers.
Am I missing something?
I’m a subscriber here for the practical guidance; the WP politics are not for me. Not a developer. As a user, I’ve agreed with those who stated that a good custom fields capability is overdue to be part of the core of a CMS platform, without the need for a plugin. The ACF/SCF drama shouldn’t even be a thing.
In many respects yes, CPTs, custom fileds and relationships, should have been rolled into WP over ten years ago. That's assuming that those in charge were able to see the value in these additions at the time. Unfortunately there is every indication that the top bottle washers can't envision WP beyond it's blogging/publishing capeablities which has meant a lot of hard work on the part of third party develelpers doing the all heavy lifting. It's very disingenuous to see what's going on with what in effect is poaching by the landlord.
@@vaughanprint Custom fields and CPTs has actually been part of WP core there for over 10 years. What was severely lacking is a good UI and UX to build the fields and manage them, especially the custom fields. Frankly, this should be among many features that should have received development focus in the past 5 years instead of wasting time in that same period on just Gutenberg alone.
@@teugene I think this is the core issue, excuse the pun, the facility to implent them is there, just not the UI. When a platform puports to be for everyone and then elects to hide or hide the functioinality and features then I suggest somebody is just fecking around and not to serious about the softwares potential, beyond just being a platform for blogging… sorry to be so blunt about it.
Can we do the same to wordpress? Get the source code , Rename ,use new license GPLvX to prevent this type of behaviour.
There is a bit reddit post on this topic. It would be a huge costly endeavour... so unlikely to be possible route.
@@MeppyMan It wouldn't be that difficult. WPE has the resources. They should just take the code and release it under a new nonprofit entity. Everything would port. If all the unpaid dev contributors ceased doing free labor for Matt and jumped over to support the new product, it'd be off to the races.
I checked it out and found ClassicPress (No built-in Gutenberg). This wordpress fork is the most promising one . People started to gather there because of what Matt did. There're many problems. 1. too few themes an plugins. 2. No good pagebuilder but I can install Gutenberg plugin . it's hard to switch from wordpress because there is no major plugins compatible 🥲 . Some plugins can be installed but they are very old version . ClassicPress is fork of wordpress 4.9
After thinking this through, I've come up with a theory that this is actually a much higher-level game.
My theory is that it has nothing to do with WP org and only with WP com, which is a direct competitor to WP Engine. And this game is being played by adding WP org (ACF) as a means to an end, simply a strategic move in a larger game.
Open source is being used to strengthen strategic positions, but in the end it has become a commercial battle. So it's not WP Engine versus WP org, but mattic versus Silver lake.
Sorry for the strange abbreviations but my message keeps getting deleted.
@wpTuts should we start looking at other CMS platforms?
Not really. While this drama is playing out and things are unsettled, the average user probably won't be affected in any noticeable way.
Thanks for clarifying. Just wondered why ACF suddenly was SCF. Totally on your side. This is not good at all. Hope this will not be the end of the wordpress as we know it.
Mullenweg is going from bad to worse. Banning WP Engine from the WordPress repository was retaliatory against what is - at its core - a trademark dispute. Adding a disclaimer to the sign-up form requiring you to renounce any ties to WP Engine was just plain childish. This latest move to take over ACF - whether "legal" or not - is at *best* a major dick move at worst the death knell for WordPress. Open-source software depends a lot on the community's goodwill, and Matt just tossed 20 years of hard-earned goodwill out the window. WordPress is not the #1 website CMS because it's a better technical solution - it's #1 because of its robust library of 3rd party plugins and themes. If you lose the devs you lose what makes WordPress the popular choice and eventually you lose the race to the next best thing.
No single person, including Mullenweg, should have as much influence on an open source project as WordPress. There should be more democratic processes involving the entire community. Mullenweg is a co-founder of WordPress, but should that give him a dominant role over all others who have also made major contributions?
Agreed!
Soooo, this is deeply worrying to everyone who loves WordPress and the many, many developers and plugins, themes etc that are available for WP. My concerns are many. First, should I continue to invest time and money building sites in WordPress? Secondly, what about all those who have invested in premium plugins and themes? Thirdly, why should the likes of Elegant Themes and Elementor (to name just 2) continue to support WordPress?
Another thought is what about AI in all of this. The likes of Hostinger and Wix already offfer ways to build websites using AI that don't use WordPress. Isn't it short-sighted to alienate developers when WordPress is facing threats from AI site builders?
The company I work at has an unlimited license for ACF Pro, so what I did is actually upgrade the sites using free plugin to the pro version.
Something else interesting is that Pods Custom Post Types plugin now keeps malfunctioning for me. Fresh install, 2024 theme, Pods the only plugin. Breaks after a few days. Seems to me that wordpress took ACF to eventually implement as a new feature. Can't have a competitor like Pods hanging around. I could be wrong in suspecting wp to be who to blame for the Pods issue but once you do something slimy, you lose trust. Time to find a new CMS for me.Too bad the dev of b2evolution retired. There's ClassicPress, a pre 5.0 fork of wp and ACF works on it. Now I have to redo all my Pods in ACF.
I agree with Matt. But not with the claim for compensation. That killed his claim for me, as it defeated the crusade to keep wordpress open to EVERYONE without friction or 3rd party take overs.. which is extremely important for the web.
Hope it settles down in a positive way, it's really alarming. 😑
Only positive way is Matt resigning, but he would rather burn the whole ship
Wouldn't it be possible to create a new repository away from the main WP repository so those free versions are again available for all?
There are a ton of non-repository plugins at places like Envato though none are free currently. This could be an opportunity for them.
How many shakedowns have already occurred at other hosting providers behind closed doors. Do GoDaddy pay a percentage? Strattic? Bluehost?
"One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them."
Custom fields in general should be core. I’m not going to comment on the hostile take over.
Before I eventually felt forced to move to WP because the ecosystem was so vast, I used a system called Mambo. There were internal wranglings there and a version called Joomla forked from Mambo. I liked Joomla but the lack of developer interest made it impossible to stick with it. I guess WP has to protect it's big developers to continue dominating with the depth and breadth of its ecosystem.
I still use Joomla and WP and agree. Joomla would do well to fix its 'types' up and be a worthy competitor to WP instead of be held back by its programmer gatekeepers. Now is a great time to do this.
@@polarxta2833 re:"Now is a great time to do this." Which, unfortunately, is precisely why they wont 🤣
@@toby-green Yep. Missing the opportunities is Joomla's strength..
It's a disgusting move, even if it's legal. ACF is one of the biggest, most well regarded plugins in use and to just 'fork it' (which they didn't do) is if not criminal, sleazy. In the end it's a hostile takeover gone wrong.
Over the last few years Wordpress has become a monetized wild west. Premium themes, plugins, forks and everything really go against the ethos that started way back when Wordpress started. But IMHO it is still *just* the best out there, that may change in the future though
I am not an expert but does that mean that anyone could fork off WP into another Platform or what will be the future should the ecosystem totally fold because of this?
Yes. Its been done Classicpress.
Can someone explain to me the pro-Matt side? I'm trying to figure it out and most of the comments seem to disagree with him.
What is his steel man argument for doing this? Is it something along the lines of "WPEngine used Wordpress without giving back now I'll use ACF without giving back?" Like there has to be a legitimate reason right?
Thanks for your video!
It honestly feels like Matt should be in a mental institution and not in front of a computer right now. He's actively destroying WordPress before our very eyes without any consideration for the user base. What a complete and utter ****.
Appropriating others work and calling it your own is immortal.
there is no rules , court for this ?
thanks for sharing, i was confused.
This is setting a very concerning precedent. If this leads to other successful plugin developers leaving the platform, based on concern of having their code hijacked and absorbed into WP core, then the entire community is going to suffer. Not a good situation.
It feels like the kind of power struggle that's using rhetoric of "theft" for the optics to blame one another in a way that's confusing to the user. I'm trying to parse out which fork in the road to take and I'm having to do a major deep dive on the dynamics to figure out what I actually think. Open source values don't match up to capitalism's assumptions about intellectual property so playing on low information users by talking about "stealing" and all that is not helpful and actually damaging. I don't think anyone involved is helping the cause of liberation from capitalism, because of course they long ago plugged into the profit seeking vibe and if we do that without being vigilant of our own motives, we fall prey to love of money. I hope everyone involved decides to take a step back and do some reflection. How is humanity being served by this spiral into domination, power, and control?
At the end of the day, this controversy largely revolves around money. While many are criticizing Matt Mullenweg, it's important to note that numerous developers who have plugins in the WordPress repository also offer premium versions or are developing them to generate revenue. WordPress doesn't receive a cut from these premium offerings, yet it provides a free CMS that these developers rely on.
Consider how many of those complaining would be willing to sacrifice their profits by switching to another CMS that offers only a fraction of WordPress's capabilities. Even if developers were to adopt a headless approach, the question remains: how much are agencies and developers prepared to invest in resources to make such a transition?
People may be overly sensitive to these developments. It's crucial to understand that while changes are likely, they don't necessarily signal the demise of WordPress. Instead, this situation may lead to a reevaluation of the relationship between the platform, its contributors, and the businesses that profit from it.
I think I would agree with you more if WP's success was due solely to its core development. But WP owes a LOT of its success, popularity, and brand recognition to the multitude of developers who have extended WP's capabilities and to all the web hosts offering one-click installation, making it the de facto software that most people use.
Matt seems to think he deserves all the credit, when this is absolutely not the case. This is like when you have a manager who fires one of their best and highest performing employees, thinking they are easily replaceable and not realizing that the business was successful because of them, and then the company goes out of business within a year.
His ego will be his ruination.
The question is, is there a good alternative waiting in the "right time, right place" wings, like WP was when it first gained in popularity? Or are we going to see a bunch of newcomers rise over the next year or two and totally fracture the web development landscape?
Yep. It seems few people commenting in here understand GPL and OpenSource. It might be a good idea for @Paul to explain this because it changes the story considerably. Plugin creators are working under GPL, and profit is being made fro services around that code. They take the risk knowing what could happen. The fact this is the first 'hostile' takeover is actually very telling of how patient Matt has been.
Why doesn't someone fork WordPress in it's entirety and then make a brand new modern intuitive dashboard with granular control and display of controlpanel elements based on say userroles or something else?
I REALLY wish people would stop using an argument to attack WP one day e.g. using GPL "rules" and THEN use the same argument in the opposite direction.
Exactly.
Okay, here is my nice and polite comment. If you owned a business would you yield 8% of your revenues to an Open Source project? Would you? When WP Engine refused they were then asked for more than 8%! This is when they were attacked openly and overtly by MM. He disparaged them at WCUS robbing us of a State of the Word like nice and polite presentation. Then he overtly attacked the millions of ACF users by hijacking their ACF plugin(s). WP Engine did not attack whatsoever. This is extortion on the simplest terms; nothing complicated here my friends. Have a nice and polite day!
I'm not understanding anything about it, but I think that a version of scf on github could lead to interesting developments
A PRO version perhaps ;)
Hostile Takeover for sure!
S(tolen)CF. This is NOT a fork, it’s plagiarism plain and simple.
I think WP plugin developers now can start feeling themselves like mommy's entrepreneurs who planned to build business by developing custom GPTs. And very soon OpenAI told them: "Thank you very much for all your ideas and testing for free" :)
Yeah, I’m done with WordPress. I’m moving all my clients to NextJS and Payload CMS.
Thank you for the summary. This seems to happen with every platform. I remember when Facebook changed from their original more open developer system to closing the door and keeping user data. When twitter changed from free API calls to paid. It also happens in other industries. It's capitalism.
I have been entertaining the idea of abandoning WP once and for all. I'm researching and so far Webflow and Statamic are good candidates! 😉
Just be careful with WebFlow as the pricing can get out of hand very quickly with decent site traffic.
We’re actively looking at Statamic too. I’ve built one site with it. Peak stater kit is amazing, add so much. Overall really love the platform but it is a very different way of working
For me, it is like some other people that think from 2500 years ago, the earth or at least part of it, is their own land and they can do what ever they want to the people, animals, farms, etc. It's very wild and unacceptable.
I really don't see how this is too far away from the various "GPL" plugin clubs that have sprung up taking advantage of the GPL licence and developers hard work.
What if I have ACF??
Follow my instructions in the video I released earlier this week and you’ll be good.
@@WPTuts ohh okay thanks.. I just did that when you've released it.. I thought I need to update the plugin again 🥹🥹
This is the equivalent of a "Man in the Middle" attack via plugin repository. Definitely a hostile takeover, a "fork" wouldn't have hijacked the old plugin's install base.
After over a decade in trademark service mark and add value development ..I knew this from the start.. WP prime can roll anything into core for the benefit of the community… this a benefit of 2 million users is a clear path benefit…
Clearly Developers know this risk going in…
and claiming ignorance…. Is not forgivable.. we know the deal in the beginning it was his stuff and in the end it’s his stuff… the best way forward well that’s a whole other decade of collaborative true open source development..
This stuff just makes me smile… look at Adobe it’s just the same beast just exposed…..
I may be a bit out there but an antitrust angle is brewing….. as there was only the illusion of trust on Matt’s part….
He is the King…
What a great bait and switch
Yep. Mainly people who don't really know whats going on being suprised and upset by this. And in my view it was a good move to stabilise an important part of the platform. I wonder if one can still upgrade to PRO version though.
@@polarxta2833 ACF Pro is a separate plugin. I wouldn't be surprised if WPE retaliates by making the two incompatible. That's what I would do.
Nice update
I'm pretty sure this was the intention before they took legal action against WP Engine.
WP Engine started this by taking legal action against Matt instead of upping their 'giving back' quota.
@@polarxta2833 there is an unstated premise in your argument and a false dichotomy. There were other ways to play this out by both parties. Matt has a history of doing spiteful things from the stories I have read.
@@polarxta2833 Why should WPE give anything back? ACF is the reason WP took off. I've been with both since the beginning. WP was just a blog before Elliot introduced ACF. It was game-changing.
@@ontheruntonowhere WPE bought ACF. Elliot built it and it also went through Deliious Brains which everybody forgets.
WP is still a blog frankly. ACF lets it do a lot more but its post_meta system stops it being seriously scalable, preferring ease of compatibility across plugins.
WPE are the Venture Capital company that everybody here (who uses WordPress for free) seems to love, while hating on Matt. Its getting rather silly frankly.
Landlord: I've locked you out of your apartment. I'm also taking possession of the property you abandoned on the premises.
You all are missing the point ...
Matt is doing exactly whatever wp engine did with WordPress
It's just for proving how wrong it is, he knows it's wrong and that is his point
This is not sounding good. It sounds like a hijack. And even worse, of two elephants fight , the grass suffer. This is happening while we are preparing to lunch our WordPress agency! So confusing
So, WordPress is becoming free to use as long as you pay for it. Matt felt just too much money was lying on the table to finally not pick some of it up. It's all beginning to smell like the end of the line and another example of open-source failure. It's okay if you say we are now a transactional business.
I don't work with WordPress anymore, I don't have a horse in this race. But since the beginning I've always felt Matt's initial arguments were weak. This just cements my feelings that he is a complete scumbag. Legit forking fair enough. Hostile takeover under the guise of a security issue when you've banned the original maintainers from fixing it. Unacceptable in my eyes.
I cannot wait for the indians to do their thing and add in all the pro features in SCF let's go!