Most people and partners won't be leaving WordPress anytime soon. Their market share is too high and costly for partners and developers to leave. So, wordpress will be just fine. Only sharks are hoping for the death of wordpress. The open source model is popular and most people still believe in it's mission, despite this cat fight that will quickly be forgotten.
I won't be creating any new projects in wordpress. Can you imagine actually recommending this as a technology and someone pointing to this infighting? I'm not having this blow up in my face.
@@AnnieluLucy No they won't. You can be cute all you want, but don't pretend I'm not a bellwether. Can you imagine standing in front of a room full of people and suggesting they use wordpress? I won't subject myself to that embarrassment. You go right ahead though!
@@SixOThree Oh, please... Wordpress is doing just fine, no matter what YOU think. Until a very powerful and innovative competitor comes up, and a critical mass is willing to leave WordPress, then it might happen. There is already a lot of competition for webhosting yet WordPress is still people's main source, because it's not just a platform or organization - IT'S AN ENTIRE ECOSYSTEM.
Tech evolves very quickly. What are wordpress's advantages? Brand and extensions. The actual core wordpress is pretty basic. a database of posts, users, roles and comments. Nobody wants gutenberg, it's a poor attempt at a block building platform. The style editor sucks and it slows down my workflow - so I refuse to use it. Other CMS's do CMS better. They just need to do the extension part better and then we all move on. Matt, you're an idiot for trying to fork the most popular plugin.
Absolutely. WordPress is thriving because of the ecosystem. That's really it. If not for the ecosystem, I'd already have moved on to something else. When I said making a genuinely competitive alternative wouldn't be quick or easy, I was mainly referring to building a true plugin ecosystem around it. I think it will take many years for an ecosystem to challenge WordPress, but if WordPress continues down this path, we're going to see it sooner than later.
@@celestialnubian due to the timing when I got into WordPress eco system, FSE and block themes were actually getting better and also I liked the idea of not being locked in to a specific 3rd party page builder and their themes.
Nobody cares about the brand, in fact everyone is hiding it. And "do the extension part better" is a pretty mild way to put it since you're not going to find anything close in terms of choice and being free. It was in fact, a very stupid thing to say or even suggest.
It's such a mess... very sad to see this. WordPress is so core to the infrastructure of the Internet (43% of it at least), and a temperamental CEO shouldn't be able to shove a stick in the spokes so easily.
I've been a WordPress-first developer for nearly 15 years, and have built a business on the platform. But this latest drama has been a bridge too far. I totally agree with you that WordPress needs new leadership, and an end to Mullenweg's "benevolent dictatorship for life," as it's been called. While I'm not going to suddenly shift my business plan overnight, I am going to spend more time experimenting with other CMS platforms like Craft. It's time to move some eggs into other baskets. Thanks for the video, except that pineapple is NOT delicious, on pizza or otherwise. ;-)
I know many developers feel the same as you! Good on you for diversifying. And while I personally think that pineapple is delicious on pizza, I don’t require you to share that view to participate in the comments 😁
As a website designer for decades all the way back to building my first website with Hot Dog Pro I adopted WordPress when it was first announced. That being said, this petty fight makes me think WordPress needs to be take out of the domain of a dictator. Maybe one of the large, stable hosting companies, one not overseas, could buy it and start charging a reasonable fee to use it. Just a thought.
As a website owner developer it is all a bunch of noise and way to early to make a decision yet. I was thinking about taking some of the plugins I had built for my business and marketing them but that is no longer a option better to connect them via API now. So all this noise did prevent products from coming to the market and I believe if it impacted my choice it probably impacted others as well.
It’s quite obvious they’re trying to do the same thing unity did. Free for personal projects but if you use it to make money about a certain threshold then you have to purchase a license
While listening to the video I was shopping other sources for my site. Open Source is one thing, but when the person creating the platform starts lying and becomes a bad actor in the scene it's time to get out before we just log on one day and our sites are down.
If you have advice for someone who wants to specialize in building websites with 3-5 pages and landing pages, would you advise them to continue with WordPress or learn Framer or Webflow?
If you're building sites for clients and recommending the platform for them, I might invest some time learning Framer, Webflow, or Wix Studio. These builders all feel like "next generation" options compared to WordPress in my view. I think it comes down to the client's preference. If they're indifferent on it, I would just pick whichever one is easiest to get the job done. If they specifically want tight control over data ownership and hosting, WordPress is still the obvious pick. Most businesses likely wouldn't mind paying $30-50/month to have their website hosted, and when you remove the data control "issue" from the picture, I think they're a bit more intuitive and powerful than WordPress in many cases. However, I don't think WordPress is going anywhere any time soon, and since you already know it, you can still use it when clients want it.
@@CraylorThank you for your interest in replying and answering my inquiry If I want to learn a platform next to WordPress that is in demand in the market, smooth in dealing, and suitable and achieves the goal of designing landing pages or simplified websites for sectors such as real estate, travel, tourism, health and wellness, and portfolio websites, which one should I learn from? These platforms first and master them, then move on to the next: Is Webflow first or Framer first to learn?
@@mofunnel I'd try Webflow first. Framer is good if you use Photoshop/Canva regularly and want to design a website like an artboard, but Webflow is more powerful and capable.
@@Craylor Wix Studio seems like a joke compared to WordPress. It is not flexible wrt functionality. In the long run, Webflow is super more expensive, and I have no information about Framer.
I left WP a few years ago after being with them since their earliest years, and this behavior doesn’t surprise me. He’s always been kind of an entitled, elitist knucklehead.
I'm new to wordpress development. I just started this year. This makes me feel like I'm super late to the game, and that I should switch to something like webflow or framer.
I'm leaving WP as a technology option as soon as possible. I've switched to different methods (good ol JS/HTML/CSS) and am down to the last 3 domains to move.
If there will be a way to automatically and fully transfer a WordPress site into a better alternative in the future, I will consider it. With new sites, currently I'm using a WP only host and will continue to do so until absolutely necessary.
Should my client be worried? He has a Wordpress site hosted on something that isnt WPEngine or Auttomatic… I just build him a mobile app that interfaces with his site and its plugins so im not a WP person so most of this is above my head.
Honestly? No. In the long run this isn't good for wordpress. But if I were hosting at wp-engine (which I am), I would pay more attention and make sure my site exports were up to date. But I wouldn't be looking for alternatives.
Yes run Joomla. It’s easier management and you got nearly the same stuff for it. And with Nicepage you can make the template or the whole website etc. I use it and I’m not going to use Wordpress ever.
Re thinking this comment matt. Keep the hustle up, just don’t support the bad companies ie. Wp engine. Personal experience they are the worst in the industry. Advice pick any other company and you’ll be better off. If I post my favorite host it will most likely get deleted so I’m just not going to. Have a great day people.
Feel free to argue Matt's side of this. Even his close friends and biggest supporters aren't doing that. Just look at any HN thread. Everyone is telling him to stop. Really. I would love to hear some arguments supporting his actions. Please please inform me.
alternatives like webflow and wix are complete trash if you care about beating your competitors seo or you like wasting hours to make an inch of progress. Wix and webflow are where sites go to die. All this content backstory is kinda nice but its… kinda gossipy. it reminds me of clickbate/ai. i mean where’s the twitter post “we lost”. As the featured photo it should at least make it in the video? Also I’ve worked for wix and bluehost affiliate programs. Long term it’s never worth it bro to recommend them. - wordpress web dev
No one cares about this, imho, for us end users, this is just eula garbage that no one reads. And when a better free options appears, majority of users will switch to it. Joomla was pretty big in the past for same reason, then came wordpress. Something else will come soon to. Is normal.
This is my 2 cents take. All this WordPress drama, could just be a staged thing between Matt & WPEngine. The WordPress world has been pretty boring all this while and this is a way to spice things up. In the end they make tons of money and we are ultimately the consumers.
@@celestialnubian It does sound ridiculous and this 'strategy' has been used by big brand names too: McDonald’s vs. Burger King What Happened: McDonald’s sued Burger King multiple times, one notable case being in 1980 when McDonald’s accused Burger King of false advertising regarding the size of its burgers. Outcome: Most cases were settled or dismissed, but they showcased how intense marketing wars can spill into legal battles. Rivalry Impact: Both brands use these moments to their advantage, fueling the perception of a heated competition. Microsoft vs. Google (Bing vs. Google Search) The Bing It On Challenge: Microsoft’s Bing launched a campaign challenging users to compare its search results with Google’s in a blind test. The campaign portrayed Bing as a superior option, though Google’s dominance remained unshaken. Playful Jabs in Tech: Both companies have taken light-hearted shots at each other in product comparisons (e.g., Google Docs vs. Microsoft Office). Why It’s Ridiculous: Google’s dominance and Microsoft’s stable position in software mean neither company is truly at risk, but the rivalry creates entertaining content that reinforces their brands. Coca-Cola vs. PepsiCo What Happened: In 2006, Coca-Cola filed a lawsuit against PepsiCo, accusing them of poaching trade secrets via stolen confidential documents. Outcome: PepsiCo cooperated with authorities and distanced itself from the accused employees, and the case didn’t lead to prolonged legal battles. Rivalry Impact: This reinforced the intense competition between the brands while also showcasing the importance of ethical practices.
@sambosok9 You have no idea about anything. They actually do a lot but If ACF was their only contribution, it would be significant because ACF makes wp 100x better. This is why Matt attempted to hijack it. Stop repeating talking points. I'm no fan of the PE companies buying up plugins but Matt is not the hero here.
Why should they? They're doing the hard work of creating hosting for wordpress. If it wasn't for companies like this wordpress would be just like Wix. And seriously, why should they? Is there recognition like in the Drupal community? Are there requirements? Are there incentives? No. None of this exists. Create the structure and maybe they will fill space.
@@SixOThree Their big contribution is not hosting. You can get wp hosting anywhere. They are goated because of ACF. ACF is probably the most important wordpress plugin of all time.
This is why I have serious concerns about the long term viability of WordPress. Sure, it's not going anywhere in the near future, but I don't think it's exempt from losing its authority if he keeps going down this path.
Most people and partners won't be leaving WordPress anytime soon. Their market share is too high and costly for partners and developers to leave. So, wordpress will be just fine. Only sharks are hoping for the death of wordpress. The open source model is popular and most people still believe in it's mission, despite this cat fight that will quickly be forgotten.
I won't be creating any new projects in wordpress. Can you imagine actually recommending this as a technology and someone pointing to this infighting? I'm not having this blow up in my face.
@SixOThree No worries. Wordpress won't miss you. 👋
@@AnnieluLucy No they won't. You can be cute all you want, but don't pretend I'm not a bellwether.
Can you imagine standing in front of a room full of people and suggesting they use wordpress? I won't subject myself to that embarrassment. You go right ahead though!
@@SixOThree Oh, please... Wordpress is doing just fine, no matter what YOU think. Until a very powerful and innovative competitor comes up, and a critical mass is willing to leave WordPress, then it might happen. There is already a lot of competition for webhosting yet WordPress is still people's main source, because it's not just a platform or organization - IT'S AN ENTIRE ECOSYSTEM.
@@SixOThree Don't argue with her. She's just a low level fanboy/girl/troll/whatever.
Pineapple may or may not be good on pizza, but repeater fields included for free in SCF is definitely awesome.
Tech evolves very quickly. What are wordpress's advantages? Brand and extensions.
The actual core wordpress is pretty basic. a database of posts, users, roles and comments. Nobody wants gutenberg, it's a poor attempt at a block building platform. The style editor sucks and it slows down my workflow - so I refuse to use it.
Other CMS's do CMS better. They just need to do the extension part better and then we all move on.
Matt, you're an idiot for trying to fork the most popular plugin.
Absolutely. WordPress is thriving because of the ecosystem. That's really it. If not for the ecosystem, I'd already have moved on to something else. When I said making a genuinely competitive alternative wouldn't be quick or easy, I was mainly referring to building a true plugin ecosystem around it. I think it will take many years for an ecosystem to challenge WordPress, but if WordPress continues down this path, we're going to see it sooner than later.
@lucketvids Actually, Gutenberg is the right direction. Having a bunch of themes that lock your content into a non standard format is so dated.
@@celestialnubian due to the timing when I got into WordPress eco system, FSE and block themes were actually getting better and also I liked the idea of not being locked in to a specific 3rd party page builder and their themes.
Nobody cares about the brand, in fact everyone is hiding it. And "do the extension part better" is a pretty mild way to put it since you're not going to find anything close in terms of choice and being free.
It was in fact, a very stupid thing to say or even suggest.
Add Generate-blocks and it becomes absolutely brilliant.
It's such a mess... very sad to see this. WordPress is so core to the infrastructure of the Internet (43% of it at least), and a temperamental CEO shouldn't be able to shove a stick in the spokes so easily.
I've been a WordPress-first developer for nearly 15 years, and have built a business on the platform. But this latest drama has been a bridge too far. I totally agree with you that WordPress needs new leadership, and an end to Mullenweg's "benevolent dictatorship for life," as it's been called. While I'm not going to suddenly shift my business plan overnight, I am going to spend more time experimenting with other CMS platforms like Craft. It's time to move some eggs into other baskets. Thanks for the video, except that pineapple is NOT delicious, on pizza or otherwise. ;-)
I know many developers feel the same as you! Good on you for diversifying. And while I personally think that pineapple is delicious on pizza, I don’t require you to share that view to participate in the comments 😁
@@taupecatstudiosCraft can be great
@@Craylor Yeah, +1 for Pineapple 🍍🍕😋
The whole thing just screams petty, keep the WordPress users out of it.
As a website designer for decades all the way back to building my first website with Hot Dog Pro I adopted WordPress when it was first announced. That being said, this petty fight makes me think WordPress needs to be take out of the domain of a dictator. Maybe one of the large, stable hosting companies, one not overseas, could buy it and start charging a reasonable fee to use it. Just a thought.
We need to come together and ensure WordPress is run by a Trust.
WordPress will NEVER disappear.
Is there an alternative to the WordPress plugin repository?
Its not "literally a required checkbox", its just a checkbox. I logged in without checking it
According to the interwebs, it was required at one point
I'm in the process of building an alternative.
@@thefearlessgeek If you need design contributions and general UX support, do get in touch.
And so is A.I. - probably any day now.
As a website owner developer it is all a bunch of noise and way to early to make a decision yet. I was thinking about taking some of the plugins I had built for my business and marketing them but that is no longer a option better to connect them via API now. So all this noise did prevent products from coming to the market and I believe if it impacted my choice it probably impacted others as well.
Been using WordPress since 2006, it has grown so big that it cannot have a "King" running the platform. Matt doesn't come out well on this.
It’s quite obvious they’re trying to do the same thing unity did. Free for personal projects but if you use it to make money about a certain threshold then you have to purchase a license
While listening to the video I was shopping other sources for my site. Open Source is one thing, but when the person creating the platform starts lying and becomes a bad actor in the scene it's time to get out before we just log on one day and our sites are down.
If you have advice for someone who wants to specialize in building websites with 3-5 pages and landing pages, would you advise them to continue with WordPress or learn Framer or Webflow?
If you're building sites for clients and recommending the platform for them, I might invest some time learning Framer, Webflow, or Wix Studio. These builders all feel like "next generation" options compared to WordPress in my view.
I think it comes down to the client's preference. If they're indifferent on it, I would just pick whichever one is easiest to get the job done. If they specifically want tight control over data ownership and hosting, WordPress is still the obvious pick.
Most businesses likely wouldn't mind paying $30-50/month to have their website hosted, and when you remove the data control "issue" from the picture, I think they're a bit more intuitive and powerful than WordPress in many cases.
However, I don't think WordPress is going anywhere any time soon, and since you already know it, you can still use it when clients want it.
@@CraylorThank you for your interest in replying and answering my inquiry
If I want to learn a platform next to WordPress that is in demand in the market, smooth in dealing, and suitable and achieves the goal of designing landing pages or simplified websites for sectors such as real estate, travel, tourism, health and wellness, and portfolio websites,
which one should I learn from? These platforms first and master them, then move on to the next: Is Webflow first or Framer first to learn?
@@mofunnel I'd try Webflow first. Framer is good if you use Photoshop/Canva regularly and want to design a website like an artboard, but Webflow is more powerful and capable.
@@Craylor I will focus more on build landing pages and high-converting sales pages, so what is appropriate from your point of view and experience
@@Craylor Wix Studio seems like a joke compared to WordPress. It is not flexible wrt functionality. In the long run, Webflow is super more expensive, and I have no information about Framer.
Since WordPress is over 43% of the web and used by the WH, the government will jump in to save it, LOL. "Too big to fail".
I left WP a few years ago after being with them since their earliest years, and this behavior doesn’t surprise me. He’s always been kind of an entitled, elitist knucklehead.
Yes I'll continue to use WordPress. Yes WordPress needs leadership change
I'm new to wordpress development. I just started this year. This makes me feel like I'm super late to the game, and that I should switch to something like webflow or framer.
As a Wordpress designer, I have a lot of decisions to make. Thanks for this clear and concise breakdown, Christian!
I'm leaving WP as a technology option as soon as possible. I've switched to different methods (good ol JS/HTML/CSS) and am down to the last 3 domains to move.
You can not compare Wordpress to webflow.
Everything you can build on webflow you can build with Wordpress, but not the other way around.
"Not now, but ten years from now." Tom Hagen to Vito Corleone.
If there will be a way to automatically and fully transfer a WordPress site into a better alternative in the future, I will consider it. With new sites, currently I'm using a WP only host and will continue to do so until absolutely necessary.
Sounds like a money making idea. Imagine if Wix, or the like, created a "migrate away from wordpress" tool.
(Not a fan of Wix in any way whatsoever.)
Best explanation of this issue I seen so far
No dejaré WordPress y entiendo que hay empresas que no aportan a su desarrollo; solo parasitan los proyectos
Vanilla WordPress & block theme editor all I need
Alternatives to WordPress?
That may require a video itself.
Should my client be worried? He has a Wordpress site hosted on something that isnt WPEngine or Auttomatic…
I just build him a mobile app that interfaces with his site and its plugins so im not a WP person so most of this is above my head.
Honestly? No.
In the long run this isn't good for wordpress. But if I were hosting at wp-engine (which I am), I would pay more attention and make sure my site exports were up to date. But I wouldn't be looking for alternatives.
Time to find seriously an alternative
How is joomla can it be an alternative?
Yes run Joomla. It’s easier management and you got nearly the same stuff for it. And with Nicepage you can make the template or the whole website etc.
I use it and I’m not going to use Wordpress ever.
Thank you for the video and insights!
Re thinking this comment matt. Keep the hustle up, just don’t support the bad companies ie. Wp engine. Personal experience they are the worst in the industry. Advice pick any other company and you’ll be better off. If I post my favorite host it will most likely get deleted so I’m just not going to. Have a great day people.
its not requiered anymore the accept that pinneapple are good for pizza :P
I saw they made that change shortly after I filmed this. I'm glad they made that change.
Good video!
You have only argued one side.
@@colourberry there’s nothing to argue. this is the truth.
@danielschutzsmith9399 He had reasons that weren't touched here at all.
Feel free to argue Matt's side of this. Even his close friends and biggest supporters aren't doing that. Just look at any HN thread. Everyone is telling him to stop.
Really. I would love to hear some arguments supporting his actions. Please please inform me.
@@SixOThree he wants to make some money that's the argument
I mean he did mention that Matt felt like they hadn't contributed enough. The real reason is Matt is greedy af.
alternatives like webflow and wix are complete trash if you care about beating your competitors seo or you like wasting hours to make an inch of progress. Wix and webflow are where sites go to die. All this content backstory is kinda nice but its… kinda gossipy. it reminds me of clickbate/ai. i mean where’s the twitter post “we lost”. As the featured photo it should at least make it in the video? Also I’ve worked for wix and bluehost affiliate programs. Long term it’s never worth it bro to recommend them.
- wordpress web dev
That’s why these are not alternatives in my view.
Everything you can build in webflow you can build in Wordpress, but not the other way around.
To be clear, pineapple is not delicious on pizza. Some people may think it is, but it's not. I'm glad we finally got that settled. 🍕+🍍= 🤮
@tedspens Which just further highlights how much of a weirdo Matt is.
@@celestialnubian 🤣🤣✌
It takes a sophisticated palate to appreciate pineapple on pizza.
@@orangedaisies Brand new account from March 2024... Is that you Matt? 🤮
@@orangedaisies Mmm... yes 🗿
Webflow webflow webflow anytime any day!
It really depends on what you’re building.
Build me a e-commerce shop with an attached affiliate portal on webflow…
No one cares about this, imho, for us end users, this is just eula garbage that no one reads. And when a better free options appears, majority of users will switch to it. Joomla was pretty big in the past for same reason, then came wordpress. Something else will come soon to. Is normal.
This is my 2 cents take. All this WordPress drama, could just be a staged thing between Matt & WPEngine. The WordPress world has been pretty boring all this while and this is a way to spice things up. In the end they make tons of money and we are ultimately the consumers.
@mazlanhalim9141 Ridiculous take but hey, you do you.
@@celestialnubian
It does sound ridiculous and this 'strategy' has been used by big brand names too:
McDonald’s vs. Burger King
What Happened: McDonald’s sued Burger King multiple times, one notable case being in 1980 when McDonald’s accused Burger King of false advertising regarding the size of its burgers.
Outcome: Most cases were settled or dismissed, but they showcased how intense marketing wars can spill into legal battles.
Rivalry Impact: Both brands use these moments to their advantage, fueling the perception of a heated competition.
Microsoft vs. Google (Bing vs. Google Search)
The Bing It On Challenge: Microsoft’s Bing launched a campaign challenging users to compare its search results with Google’s in a blind test. The campaign portrayed Bing as a superior option, though Google’s dominance remained unshaken.
Playful Jabs in Tech: Both companies have taken light-hearted shots at each other in product comparisons (e.g., Google Docs vs. Microsoft Office).
Why It’s Ridiculous: Google’s dominance and Microsoft’s stable position in software mean neither company is truly at risk, but the rivalry creates entertaining content that reinforces their brands.
Coca-Cola vs. PepsiCo
What Happened: In 2006, Coca-Cola filed a lawsuit against PepsiCo, accusing them of poaching trade secrets via stolen confidential documents.
Outcome: PepsiCo cooperated with authorities and distanced itself from the accused employees, and the case didn’t lead to prolonged legal battles.
Rivalry Impact: This reinforced the intense competition between the brands while also showcasing the importance of ethical practices.
No. He's seemingly unstable. He posts semi-regularly in forums. Feel free to go explore those and see for yourself. Not exactly pretty.
acf pricing was a total ripoff anyway i'm glad it got forked
WordPress "picked" a fight.... No No No!!! i think wordpress made the right move
WP Engine should share more profits with WP and the community, it’s like a rip off and I’d do the same if I’m Matt!
@sambosok9 You have no idea about anything. They actually do a lot but If ACF was their only contribution, it would be significant because ACF makes wp 100x better. This is why Matt attempted to hijack it. Stop repeating talking points. I'm no fan of the PE companies buying up plugins but Matt is not the hero here.
Why should they? They're doing the hard work of creating hosting for wordpress. If it wasn't for companies like this wordpress would be just like Wix.
And seriously, why should they? Is there recognition like in the Drupal community? Are there requirements? Are there incentives? No. None of this exists.
Create the structure and maybe they will fill space.
@@SixOThree Their big contribution is not hosting. You can get wp hosting anywhere. They are goated because of ACF. ACF is probably the most important wordpress plugin of all time.
@@SixOThree hard work of hosting?
@ yep. Somebody has to make WordPress look reliable.
Hot mess. Matt needs to wake up and check his ego. Larger orgs/companies have fallen. Ask Sears. et al.
This is why I have serious concerns about the long term viability of WordPress. Sure, it's not going anywhere in the near future, but I don't think it's exempt from losing its authority if he keeps going down this path.