I Upgraded a Linn LP12 Like It's My Job! Majik+Cirkus
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
- Having some fun with my Linn Sondek LP12 Turntable...
MOD $3 Patreon link: / myowndevices
Previous Videos Mentioned:
Am I Now a Certified Linn Turntable Service Technician?? • Am I Now a Certified L...
Do I Have Too Many Turntables? • Too Many Turntables? T...
Not Listening to Vinyl Records? Then You’re Missing Out! • Not Listening to Vinyl...
Vinyl Passion LP12 replacement £27 belt: vinylpassion.ecwid.com/VP-Tur...
VP Dust Buster Stylus Cleaner: vinylpassion.ecwid.com/VP-Dus... - Наука та технологія
great video thanks, when i replaced the springs on my Thorens TD150 mk 1 , i used 3 1cm circular spirit bubble levels , the reasoning for this was they are light and did not affect the platter with undue weight , thus avoiding putting a large weight on one side of platter and compromising the levelling . and i have to say i got great results. i also have an LP12 with valhalla ps board and an SME 3009 mk2 tonearm, my dream turntable from way back in the 70's when i first got into proper hifi .
English boutique manufacturing does things so very well. I also think audiophile products that flourish in that home market , that are not niche' only, but are world class competitors , are usually worth a second look. Matter of fact I am also enjoying a belt drive suspended turntable from an English boutique manufacturer as the last turntable I will ever need.
I thank my lucky stars that my springs are simply adjusted from the top. I use a laser line across the top to find level, to avoid the weight of a level distorting my final results.
Great job Dave. One thing I would recommend is get rid of the valhalla power supply. I've had my LP12 now for over 20 years and after the circus bearing upgrade I went to with the Lingo power supply. Subtle diifference in sound and stage floor was quieter but still not what I desired. I then came across the Origin Live website in 2010 and their own Linn LP12 upgrades. I shelled out $800 for their DC motor control box. Easy modification to perform and you will now have an external power supply that I believe easily blew the doors off the Lingo. Simple to adjust for speed and a knob on the front to control 33, 45 rpm and off. Bass was fuller, high end was smooth and noise between tracks measurably lessened. The result was a much more enjoyable musical experience. I took my Linn to be serviced and a tonearm cable and Benz Micro Ruby II cartridge installed at the local Linn dealer at the time here in Virginia Beach. After installation and set up the comment he made that I will never forget was - "you have a fine turntable. I played it beside a $20,000 Linn CD setup and I have to say I like the sound of your setup better." Maybe the Benz Micro Ruby II along with the Lukaschek pre-amp had a lot to do with it. I'm not sure but I am now thinking of upgrading to the Magik sub-chassis and Carousel bearing. Now that we no longer have a Linn dealer here your video sure reinforced the notion that a lot of these upgrades are definitely user friendly. Thanks and cheers!
Watch my videos about the Zeus speed controller! Thanks
Great job! It is impressive that a company so many years ago committed to continue to improve their product & have stayed on that course & that consumers can do the upgrades themselves!
Hey Dave, congratulations on the upgrade. We seem to be on parallel paths. I used a combination of genuine parts and selected aftermarket ones for my upgrades. Same result though. A much improved sound which digs so much detail out of the record it’s scary and easily exceeds my high quality CD player.
Cheers, Mark.
As a veteran of several hundred LP12 setups, I'd say you did a great job!
Glad to see that you eventually figured out that you need to bring the subchassis in through the armboard opening.
Most of us take the arm out of the arm collar before removing the collar from the armboard. Much less chance of cartridge accidents!
A good quality 8mm hollow shaft nut driver, and a couple of pozidriv screwdrivers are your friends.
Thank you very much for your nice and helpful comments.
Long time Linn LP12 tech here (now on my spare time). I'm from Puerto Rico and have traveled to Florida several times to set up LP12s.
Nice work 👍.
When i first heard the LP12 in the mid 80s i remember it having a little too much "character" for me, luckily i couldnt afford it so i bought a Townshend Rock instead which i much preffered the sound of anyway. From what you say they are still trying to reduce that "character". Still got my Rock 😀
I, too, preferred The Rock. Then in 1990 I moved up to The Rock Reference. Awesome. Had to sell it to buy an AppleMac, which was a downer.
You are so nice to share the tricks you knew about it.
Well done Dave. All the best from Scotland 🏴
Agreed buddy.
Jim🏴🙂
Hi Dave,your channel just appeared on my feed..bloody brilliant mate,fascinating to watch. I've subbed 😊
Nice to see your back. I basically did a total-refurb on a Thornes 125 back in 2018 and have been using it (now) almost on a daily basis.
I would NEVER subscribe to streaming since I have a pretty decent LP and CD collection.
Good job,man!!
Awesome, that’s a cracking combination you have there with the EKOS tone arm and AT OC9-XML. If you want “more of that”, look out for a Lingo power supply.
I have an LP12 with Kore sub chassis, Karousel Bearing, Roksan Nima arm, Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge and Lingo 2 power supply. It gives my Linn Klimax Renew DS2 some major competition… and all of the Klimax streamers are extremely good streamers. My poor Linn Ikemi CD player (a very well regarded player) is basically a pretty ornament.
See my Zeus speed controller video. Thx
@@MODAC ah cool, the LP12 definitely benefits from a decent PSU… especially since it gives speed change at the push of a button… the 45rpm pulley adapter is a poor solution.
Linn do a Factory Tour once a month so if your even in Scotland its worth checking out.
I can't believe the Linn drive circuit uses 5 IC's for simple motor control.
The Thornes 125-MK2 (improved circuit) uses just two legacy 741 (8 pin) op-amp chips and four drive transistors. Easy to maintain and upgrade.
Dave's Linn uses a very old drive circuit called the Valhalla which was introduced over 40 years ago. The current Lingo 4 and Radikal power supplies are vastly more sophisticated.
You are absolutely right about streaming it will probably OK in around 20 years time!
Awesome video,thank you.
Great work
This was a great job done here and you probably encouraged other linn owners to probably try this as well. I had the opportunity to buy a used LP12 a long time ago when I bought my used Nakamichi Dragon, but I passed on it and it was a decision that I often regret.
I have had many tables, but it is just something about that Linn sound, I guess I got scared of the spring replacement process. I currently own a VPI Classic 1 Anniversary edition with a ADS and I have to change out my bearing soon due to the impression on it, probably this weekend.
I now have a 2000 C Sondek LP 12 with a custom plinth, separate Lingo power supply, Ekos tone arm and Sumiko Starling cartridge…I bought it from the guys at SkyFi Audio.. I’m now a Linn head and I too bought the hat..keep up the great videos.
Nice! I believe I saw that one. Pretty pricey! Thanks
Dressing the PU arm cable is very important it should not move the sub chassis in any direction when plugged in.
Motor vibration can feed in to the PU cable degrading the sound a small piece of rubber around the cable where it is gripped by the p clip is a good mod to isolate it.
yes...thanks for the tip.
As a previous Linn dealer I happen to have an official Linn jig. Glad you've mastered the tuning. I was trained by the original US Linn Distributor and it was an incredible experience. In order to setup an L12 correctly, you literally have to take the turntable apart, suspension and all, reinstall, and snug each screw and nut to perfection.
Anyway, I too am based in Florida. Where about might you reside? I am in Weston. Perhaps we could hang out one day.
Cheers,
Oswaldo Martinez
President
Let There Be Sound, L.L.C.
I believe their US distributor was in Jacksonville. Very close to where I live in St. Augustine. Are you interested in parting with your jig?
I still have my Linn setup jig. I worked for a store called Audio Gallery in Pittsburgh, PA.
@@andershammer9307 want to sell it?
Good work👍, I use loc tight for the spring nuts.
I would not use loc tight, it will be too difficult to remove, I would use nail polish, it will hold and can be easily removed, a trick from a famous Linn dealer.
Years ago I went to Audiophile Systems and was trained to do Linn LP12 turntables. You have to work for a Linn dealer to get parts and work on Linn products. I've been out of it for years though.
The fact that you replaced both the bearing and sub-chassis at the same time had a cumulative effect than say just doing the bearing update on the original sub-chassis. The biggest complaint about the Cirkus was it took away that certain something; a sort of fat mid-bass the Linn did and I myself preferred it. Martin Colloms who wrote an article back in I think Feb 84 issue of HiFi News looked into this(fat mid-bass) and realized it was a rocking motion in the bearing well from the mass of the platter and came up with a fix which I did to my LP12 way back then and it helped extend the bass and smooth out the wrinkles in its frequency response without taking away anything from the Linn. I still have that copy of HF News. Now that you're an expert, you can put the old sub back and you'll hear how much each part affects sonics. Now that new belt; is it machine ground belt like Linns? One side is /was typically smoother than the other side and that is the side to use. $112.00 for a belt seems excessive. I seem to recall the belt with the fine machined 45rpm adapter being less than that. It's been so long. Oh, and typically techs remove the arm board first on those older Linns. You're the first person I have seen do that. And what was that platform that looked like a jigsaw puzzle you had your table on?
I found the Trampolin baseboard has a naturalness of timing I've not heard from any other upgrade, and is pretty cheap.
The Cirkus was a huge upgrade a people tend to talk about the new clean and old warm LP12 sound because of it. Of course now there is the Karousel bearing.
I suggest you look at a Lingo 1 or 2 next, the biggest upgrades I've done to my LP12 have invariably been psu upgrades.
Glad you've read the Cymbosis guide.
I have a proper steel British Target turntable stand now, and I have read that the Trampolin was designed for owners who have a heavier stand. I would like a baseboard with the three holes to allow easier spring adjustment.
@@MODAC Yes that's what several of us had read/belireved (including a friend who also has a Traget table) until a dealer lent them a Trampolin. I was so struck by the difference the first part of my LP12 I bought was a Trampolin.
Also, once you've set the springs you shouldn't need to adjust them.
That’s quite an ambitious project! I’ve done that by disassembling one of my turntables, and it sat in pieces for about a month before I just couldn’t take it anymore and Dug in to get it fixed! Where are you located? He look like you’re near Tampa or something? I’m in Winter Haven.
St. Augustine.
Hi dave, I liked the video👌 i was just wondering about your oc9 cartridge alignment.. i have the same tone arm ittok with oc9 mk1. Now, looking at your cartridge option seems set, quite far back🤔 When i set mine up with the ortofon alignment tool, mine ended up around the middle part of the headshell...
Im sure it's set up properly?
I adjusted it after I made the video. Thanks.
Okay, no worries
Nice!
Great that they are upgradeable!
My self ate rocking a Thorens TD316 from the 80-ties.
I don't know if they have the same upgradeable path like the Linn but I don't think so.
Anyway I have improved and upgraded it by myself with silver tonearm cables and internal cabling for the signal path (keep control of the capacitance) plus great power supply for the motor.
Also when all adjustments were available including SRA. But not SRA on the fly so that is also added.
The thickness of the TT belt is influencing the speed. But it is probably not a major thing even if is not equally thick/thinn. (But there is technicall tests that can detect that.)
Good luck with your Linn.😅
Man I just dont get the something newer must be better thing but good for you if it makes you happy. im jsut so glad it dont float my boat. I seriously think that hifi has been on a downwards spiral (but upwards for retailers) since around 1975 maybe earlier but i wasnt around to listen then. Think about how now the best thing is wifi ear buds and a smart phone!
Same cartridge as mine.. This is a good or better than my ortofon cadenza but 450gbp...Cadenza 2 grand
I agree with you mostly about streaming & have returned to vinyl very much like you have. The one thing I like about streaming is I have discovered so many new artists from alternative to jazz to classical by exploring streaming. I have a question. A while back you bought a Dynaco ST-70 kit & had it built. Do you still have it, have you used it much & what are your impressions? I have one that is restored & has been my main amplifier for a while. It does tend to run on the very warm side compared to another 6V6GT amp I have. I would be interested if you made a video about your Dynaco & maybe some of the other components you have owned, which you have kept, which passed on, impressions, etc. Thanks again for an interesting channel!
I don't see many modern turntables with spring suspensions. What do you think sounds better? Modern or vintage with springs?
I believe the reason is that suspended turntables are more challenging to design and build. It’s a different method of preventing unwanted vibrations from reaching the stylus. The same reason you don’t see many direct drive models. They require much more engineering than the much simpler rubber belt and motor.
@@MODAC I have a feeling that vintage turntables with great suspensions could be an avenue to take a serious look at. If I can ever afford it though, my next turntable may be be from a company called Origin Live. A lesser known company out of the U.K. A lot of great turntables,(many lesser known) came out of there. The Logic dm101 was one sweet turntable, and one of the first Linn beaters back then. Everyone was saying the Sota Sapphire was better than the Linn. It wasn't. The Oracle was better in the highs, but not sure about it overall. There was a U.K. Heybrook turntable that I should have bought because it had an Audioquest MC cartridge that I loved mounted on it and it was a very good turntable. Moving coil cartridges nearlh always have better clarity, transparency, transient response, openness. and depth imaging than moving magnet. Except out of economy, I can't imagine anyone preferring a moving magnet; unless it is a really incredibly special one.
Linn is an example of careful marketing mystique. It was good, but never the best. What it is, is a hobbyist dream. Where upgrades and tweaks are readily available. So you can fiddle with it to your hearts content!
I grabbed a Systemdek iix, it is nearly identical an can be had at half or less cash.
@@DrSinisster Ah yes, the Systemdek. Enjoy
Never the best?
Never. There were a number of better turntables. Ivor Tiefenbrun was a great salesman!
The LP12 is the turntable equivalent of Porsche's 911, a characterful but antiquated design - massaged and continually updated & refined far beyond all reason and still a joy for its particular traits
Have you noticed anything different sound wise between the new belt and old belt? Do you know what the belt material is made from is it the same as the original?
You never thought about dumping the original chassis with bitumen pads people use that should work well or could try a pieces of Pine tight fitting inside the sub chassis glue it on with builders adhesive or No More Nails.
Old belt was causing the platter to spin slower. New belt has things back to normal. Have not looked into what type of rubber it is. Works fine and is priced more reasonably.
Damping?
No money for Linn in that.😂😂😂
@@fredgien yeah dampening,I mean that's what the replacement chassis is doing anyway
So how does this new version of the Linn compare to your hot rodded RP3 ?
I like it better.
hey there my friend congradulations on your success in performing these mods and upgrades on your linn.
so, a while back i asked you to finish your rega series because because you didnt make it to the the main discussion about mods: current model p3 (or p6 i guess). as you know, everybodys buyin P3 and modding it. sometimes p6. your answer was youve moved past it. well, the hifi world has moved past lynn, but u still went back to that, and i bet no ones asking.
so lets see a video comparing current model p3 modded vs unmodded. thats what everyones doing. linn is done to death and the hifi world is over it, but there still isnt a good side by side comparison and deep dive on p3 and the updates.
I gather you got a Rega? lol A cheap mod for you would be getting those bitumen pads and sticking them underneath the plinth roll them on with a roller or press down with a piece of wood. Another issue we get help with some cartridges especially moving coil is they get interference from I'm not sure if it's the motor or the circuit board I think it's just the circuit board, so get some copper tape and stick it above the circuit board on the plinth same for the motor, around the motor on the plinth, and solder a very thin wire to the copper and connect it to a ground point cover the circuit board copper with some insulation tape just in case it touches anything.
Another thing is you can get a couple of thick washers ideally wide as possible an inch glue the two washes together and attach the pulley to the washers so the washers are underneath the pulley nearly touching the motor need to check for balance on this and make sure it's scented. And glue the washes together with superglue and stick the pulley to the washers with double-sided tape. check for balance get two pencils that are Sharp and break of the tips , attach tgem two containers put the pulley against the two pencils just touching free movement market at the bottom and let it spin again if the mark is at the bottom or close to it you need to take material off at that point repeat process till you spin it and it never stops at the same spot
@@jedi-mic interesting. i never come across those mods. im talking about MOD's unfinished video series on rega mods.
its one of the tables i have, but it has nothing to do with my writing him to finish his rega series. he did 2 in a series that got me real interested, and then theres the reasons i spelled out already. MOD needs to finish the series and make a video comparing stock rega to one with all the mods he had in his series.
@@ceylonmooney try and have a look at it and I'll give you my opinion! just try those things I suggested and they should help
Unfortunately, I don’t own a stock P3. Just the one.
@@MODAC too many adverts and long ones gave up! Why can't you turn them off?
A good mod that works well on any turntable but easier on the Rega I call it a sand energy distribution box, for your main bearing and motor you're interested?
Dave, Where can I get a Linn hat like yours? I've been a Linnie since 1982 buying into "Linn For Life".
EBay
Thanks much!
How did you decide what size to buy? S/M or L/XL? They do not make it easy as all 50+ hats I own are adjustable. These appear not to be adjustable. Thanks again!
112$ for a belt??! 😂😂😂
Hi Dave. Great job and very useful video. I update and adjust my Sondek for years. One thing I want to share with you. Instead of using original nuts under the springs and a ratchet wrench I use wing nuts. It makes adjustment way easier and faster - I can use both hands during adjusment. I never noticed any changes in sound. I wonder if you had any problems with the adjusting tonarm hight so it be parallel to the record surface?
Great video! Thank you Dave. I have a 1987 Linn Axis. Recently serviced and new Hana EL cartridge installed. It’s currenty running a half step fast. My dealer told me to put a piece of scotch tape around the center bearing. I’m not digging that idea. Do u have a solve? Thank you for any advice.
How much faster?
34.9. Rpm. Enough to hear pitch and tempo difference.
Buy a Thorens!
Just for the plate what you replaced they want $6300 Aussie dollars $4200 US
That doesn't make sense. You must be talking about the Keel subchassis. That's made from a single block of aluminum.
A lot of dosh for something that has a sloppy bearing. Bitumen or cork on what you already have is cheaper mate!
@@kinasc1575 sloppy bearing? Nonsense.
Have you come across any H.K. turntables?...I have 2!0
I find Linn LP12's make incredible door stops they're fabulous however they're not great at playing vinyl better leaving that to a proper turntable 🙂
Stupidest comment of the month 🏆. Congrats!
A door stop? Okay, what do you think is a proper turntable?
The Linn is really about mystique and hype. The latest 50th Anniversary version, totally takes the piss. All of their turntables are way overpriced for what you get.
I heard a demo of an LP12-50 a couple of months ago. Fantastic in a full TOTL Linn set up.
Never going to happen - Linn
Linn need better designers -- the unreliability of the Axis PSU - the poor component choice, substrate and design of the Valhalla etc. compared to Thorens and Ariston - Linn products are weak. I have to fix their amplifiers as well and they are so cheap inside the box, my advice is - don't believe the hype.
You mention products that came out 35 to 40 years ago. Hard to relate that to what they make today.
@@gotham61 Absolutely -- Time hasnt improved things much - I used them as prime examples of the difference between hype and reality - modern products are no better, from a designers perspective - when one opens the box to see cheap and cheerful staring back at you. Especially the receivers.. There are way better products available for a lot less £ or $ ...but if people want to buy the badge on the box - fine go right ahead.
@@1sostatic Linn has never made a receiver.
@@gotham61 A receiver is the amplifier with Tuner built in like the Classik ... Well considering I just repaired one with the faulty tuner section -- that is great!
@@1sostatic Ah yes, you are correct, forgot about that one. But I’m pretty sure that’s the only thing that might be called a receiver, and it came out over a quarter century ago
My Garrard 401 (sme arm) pisses on my brother's sondek
At 11:09 SLOPPY engineering tolerances, the way that sub platter spindle just dropped into that bearing, my Thorens TD 166 mk6 can take well over a minute under its own weight to settle in, yes i know its lighter but if forced down resistance is felt as it cushions back due to trapped air because of the high tolerances which, as can be seen here, the Linn clearly lacks. So Linn sells an upgrade that their marketing people say will make the deck sound better, but it quite obviously will add Rumble lmao. £60 for a belt? noooo.
Got to love that Linn bs marketing audiofoolery.
Very bold statement, and totally incorrect: The Cirkus and later bearings are "vented" (have 3 pin holes along the edge of the liners) so the platter settles quickly. The earlier ones are non vented and take longer to settle. Because the new ones settle quickly does not mean the bearing is loose. In fact, the later ones are a bit better and easier to work with due to the venting.
I don't believe the sub platter is lighter on the Thorens only if you're talking about plastic one
@@MODAC ah vented, I stand corrected Dave.👍
@@jedi-mic yes, TD 166mk6 has plastic sub platter.
@@MODAC The vented bearings started a few years before the Cirkus around 1987 when they switched to the black PEEK liner.
way Overrated
It took a few days, but an “overrated” comment finally arrived. Why did you make us wait so long?
I agree
Why you have to "upgrade" something that has superb reproduction of LPS? This is snobism. If you are ONLY listener of LP reproduction this turntable is superb for everyones ears!
It is 35 years old and Linn has updated most of the parts over the past three decades. Staying up to date when possible.
@@MODAC So I am right, if Linn updated it why do you have to update it? ITs a desease you know, we in Serbia have this also. I have some friends here that always updated something and those friends DO NOT HAVE at least 10 LPs.