Bought my Sondek in 1979. Has the red push-in starter and no updates at all. And now 43 odd years later, it is still the same and works perfectly. It is fitted with a Syrinx gold arm and Asak cartridge. Just the stylus has been changed. Brilliant!!!
Hi Phil, thanks for reviewing an old friend. I got my first of three LP12's in 1984 and bought into the Life For Life" proposition. All three had the gorgeous ridged afromosia plynth. These days, I listen to 100% streamed digital and still use 3 different Linn LK (from the early 2000's) systems with various speakers to enjoy all my music. I love their compact chassis and wonderful sound for my taste. I have every intention of enjoying them the rest of my life. BTW, the LP12 was never inexpensive for most, myself included. I did a lot of savings and sacrificed to get my first Linn. Nontheless, it truly enhanced my life so it was all worth it. Cheers!
Linn has a mystique because no one thought turntables even made a difference at the time it was introduced. It was thought that turntables were completely passive devices and speakers were where the rubber met the road. Linn showed that acoustic isolation, speed stability, controlling motor noise and reducing extraneous motion between stylus and groove were important. While perhaps never being the best turntable and highly derivative of Ed Villchur's AR design, it was nevertheless a novel demonstration of the relative importance of source components.
It's true. Linn aggressively promulgated the idea that turntables affected the final sound being extracted and they were right. Then they capitalized on this by demonstrating at audio trade shows well set up LP-12s blowing away myriads of Japanese direct drives nailed to hollow bases. But it's fair to point out that earlier on, many Thorens TD-125 and Ariston RD-11 fans and were claiming that music sounded more realistic on their turntables. The idea of the better sounding turntable was originally pitched by Ariston (where Linn's Ivor T. worked at the time) and which later spawned Linn. In fact the original Ariston RD-11 and the early Linn LP-12 were almost clones of each other.
@@socksumi IMO Thorens, Linn and Ariston all owe a debt of gratitiude to Ed Villchur's AR turntable, and I wish Ivor T. had given some credit where credit is due. However, it was Linn that took the idea head on that the turntabie made no difference, and I can give them credit for that at least, resulting in a mixture of truth and hype that will probably remain unsurpassed.
@@jhuc2869 I don't even know what material the Technics SP10 is made from, but I was around at the time when Linn became the talk of the town. The prevailing belief was that the speakers were the overwhelmingly important component because all sound was generated there. Turntables were considered passive devices. The philosophy that the source component was of major importance may have predated Linn, but it was far from being the predominant belief. Linn had people taking a second look not only at turntables, but other source components like tape decks as well. It just made sense that if you didn't have an accurate signal to start with, the components down the chain would not be able to correct the deficits.
Could never Afford a Linn back in The day So i ended up buying a Ariston RD80 which had the Linn Basik LVV tonearm, Which i still have and use daily.. Although Its Now over 40 years old now it stills works, Sounds Great and the as the old saying goe's ,,if it ain't broke don't fix it.....Great Video By The Way.
Linn have made some great Hifi and I live very close to their factory here in Glasgow Scotland. I've had two LP12 Sondeks first very similar to the one on your video bought in 1988 with an Ittok tonearm and K18 Cart. Currently have a Technics 1200GR with Ortofon 2M Black and prefer it to the LP12 with rock solid build quality and precise speed - I had Valhalla and Hercules power supplies in my LP12s and found them to be weakest parts. Still have my Linn Kaber speakers from the early 90s on my main Hifi and a pair of Linn Tukan speakers on my desk - both really good. My son has his eyes on getting my Linn Majik-I amp which I replaced with a Yamaha AS-1100 so all my Linn gear still playing music well for decades now. Linn's prices for their HiFi no longer appeal to the masses more so for the yacht clubs but the second hand market is where I would be picking up their gear now.
Sometime later. I own and like my LP12 but was surprised that a Lenco with an Ittok arm did somethings better. The stability of speed - no stylus drag (?) - or something made it draw new clarity from the records.
As a fun loving bunch of hippies, bikers, music lovers and hedonists...many of us back in the 80's explored drugs, music and hifi (and many other things😂)...and so had a mix of linn/naim, thorens / armstrong, garrard / marantz, mitchell and quad gear .... but for me, my pink triangle and little myst amp were somehing special ...which I loved (....and luckily I must of had a good ones as they had zero issues for over a decade) which I eventually sold to friend to then go travelling! Which are still going strong with the usual sevicing. Now I just have a digital based system - hard drive media and stream....but still remember those good old days...but unlike many vinyl enthusiasts I never liked all phaff and ceremony of vinyl...but it sure sounded good.
Watched this a few times now and love your general hifi advice. I had been seriously considering popping over and having a listen and a chat about the Rega P8 and Nottingham turntables that you recommended on your channel but distance is an issue for me as I am housebound and I rely on my wife to drive. Unfortunately I had to find someone closer to me in South Yorkshire but did feel a bit guilty as I watch every video you put on UA-cam. I took the plunge and after nearly 50 years wanting one I have purchased a 2022 Linn LP12. It’s being delivered and set up tomorrow. Due to blowing my budget I had to go for the Sumiko Pearl cartridge to put me on but I am sure I will need to upgrade later so will be in touch sometime next year for something better. I will be happy to do this over the phone and will be also happy to have it posted to give you a sale. Once again thank you for all your videos Phil including your news and record reviews, I have bought several on your trusted recommendations. You have one of the very best channels on UA-cam
I bought an LP12 in the late eighties and only sold it two years ago. With hindsight my current Origin Live Resolution is a much better turntable, the sound is astonishing.
Purchases my Sondek in the early 80s second hand. Continued to upgrade the deck to the highest spec over years. Eventually it was partnered with the Linn Ekos Arm and Linn Troika Cartridge. Absolute superb sound output partnered with the Naim HI Cap, 32 Pre amp, 250 Power amp and Linn Saras. Happy days!! I don’t have the set up now but after 30 years the resale values were incredible. Never had any problems with Sondek in terms of reliability. My first T.T was a Dual 505-1. Great interesting review and look forward to further trips down memory lane👍
It was the engineering specs that sold me initially, but when I got it home I was completely blown away. Add some Naim amplification and some Linn speakers (Isobariks) and it was truly stunning. Not much has been said about the older Naim amps but these were pivotal bits of kit. Your mention of the Pink Triangle and other bits of kit brought memories flooding back, wonderful. Oh, and I still have it all, just wish I'd never sold the 250 to get the 135s. Glorious times the eighties, or is it just nostalgia?
Enjoyed the video. I bought my Linn Sondek in 1987 and I still use it almost daily. It’s superbly engineered and it’s the best thing I’ve ever bought. In recent years I removed the Valhalla and instead am using a Heed Orbit power supply for it which also does 45rpm. I have videos of it on my You Tube channel
I have an Isokinetik Isodrive branded Heed Audio power supply on one of my much modified Rega planers, it's not behaving properly and will be investigated soon. As can be seen on my channel. 😉
@@jimsregaturntableshifijukebox mine is the Heed Orbit 1 which is also external power supply. The Valhalla has been removed from the inside of the LP12 and replaced with the PCB supplied with the Heed Orbit 1. It’s been a worthwhile upgrade and was done about 5 years ago.
@@sam66hazmal mine is marked on the back: Designed and manufactured by Heed Audio. As can be seen on one of my case opening videos, it is marked "Series 2" on the inner case, PCB. This I am led to believe makes it a Heed Orbit 1, as it is the two speed model. It was supplied with the Heed branded turntable PCB, too.
@@jimsregaturntableshifijukebox I’ve not had any issues with it and is used daily. I noticed an improvement in the sound with a noticeable quieter background. I use my LP12 almost daily, I did a video on my channel showing a speed stability test and I have no issues with it. I opted for the Heed as it was far cheaper than most alternatives. What issues have you had with yours?
@@sam66hazmal I'm hoping after some investigation it's the Rega motor that's faulty, but Cheshire Audio's channel says this is VERY rare. Hope to start investigating in next couple of weeks, all being well. Thanks replying. 😉
My Sondek used to suffer with radio breakthrough until I had it Lingoed which cured it. At the time I thought that I was using the best deck ever. After all Chris Frankland said so and nobody seemed to disagree! The best turntable that I ever saw and heard is the Kronos unit. If I had the money for one of those it might tempt me back into vinyl!
if I recall Chris Frankland later wrote an article in one of the mags titled "Sheer STD" in which he came out in favour of the STD over the Linn. I think it was in the late 70s. That caused some controversy.
@@patientdog1651 I remember Chris Frankland from when he was editor of Popular HIFI mag. The Linn LP12 fitted with the Ittok arm and Asak cartridge was his top deck choice.
Got my one in 85….only mods are arm board and motor …..recent springs sand grommets…still love it …would never sell it …. Best hifi investment I ever made ….
i have owned a Linn LP12 / Ittok for 25 years, i am always amazed at its sound quality especially with modern recordings. I traded in an Ariston RD80/Linn basik for it because i liked the design. I have made improvements to the power supply/speed controls and replaced the hardboard base, Collaro mat, never ceased to be pleased.
The early pre Valhalla upgrade, Linn Sondeks, were coloured and lacked resolution compared to a Pink Triangle or an Oracle turntable, but were more engaging due to their superior pace, rhythm and timing. However, post the various upgrades, Sondeks are far less coloured and have become highly resolving without losing their PRaT. That said, it is possible to come close to or to even better the current range of Linn's decks sonic capabilities with tts from Rega, Pro-ject and even Technics for far less money.
Hello Sir,over the years i've heard a few Sondeks at different stages of their upgrade paths and I still think the Townshend Rock/Excalibur is the absolute best turntable i've ever heard. Played through a large active Meridian system it was astonishing,never heard bass reproduction like it.
I Could not agree more, I have a Rock as well as an LP12, as good as the Linn is the Townsend is superior, the only decks I have heard that are better than the Rock are the vintage Garrard 301 & 401 IMO
I was always a bit put off the Sondek because of the hype so I went with a Pink and then a Voyd. I agree 100% that prices for upgrades now seem very expensive. I still think its a lovely looking TT though. Thanks for the video
Some of us could never afford the Linn when it first came out and had to settle for a Sugden Connoisseur BD1 Kit with an SAU2 arm, had that all the way through Uni
I wish that I had bought one instead of the unreliable Pink Triangle. The Pink had a wider sound stage and more detail to my ears but spent months away being repaired. I will probably buy one next year but will make do with my Systemdek XII 900 in the meantime.
Hi Tony.. I ended up ditching the motor and speed controller and installed a DC motor and controller / power supply in its space om my Lpt (little pink thing gti export) now its perfect I love it... I also have a Sondek x900. Great deck also.. I found the LP 12 too twitchy.. Kindest regards, John.
My Pink Triangle (PT01) is still working after 37+ years, I have an AO RB300 modded arm, along with a Rega Elys2 cartridge, apart from the scratched lid, it is working very well. Upgraded and serviced recently by #cymbiosis. I met AK a few years ago at a show and at a dealer where he was showing off his warez. It sounded "Majikal" compared to an LP12 Majik.
I bought my LP12 in 1982 and have had it upgraded over the years with the new bearing being installed a few weeks ago. The sound improvements over the years have been huge. I agree the upgrades can be eye watering expensive and that is why I wait for Linn’s promotions eg my newly installed Karousel bearing came free when I bought a new Linn cartridge and had my Akurate DS updated. I absolutely love my LP12.
Audio is subjective so nothing can be the best ever. I have restored and owned LP12’s over the years and personally I thought they were overpriced and overrated for the performance you get. What gets my goat even more is how Linn ‘rewards’ customer loyalty; charging stupid sums of money for their upgrade paths. I also had a very late model Heybrook TT2 with the final sub chassis design, ran that with modified Rega arms and a Project Carbon 9 arm and comparing that to the Linn’s I felt it was far more open and revealing. Personally for me, Nottingham Analogue did everything I wanted at the right price point.
I bought my LP12 in 1982 and by 1985 I had upgraded the arm and had the valhalla board fitted. After doing this I bought about 8000 LP's and true to the hype I played mine everyday. I got it as part of the £1000 hi fi, which was an LP12 with basic a naim nait and a pair of Linn Kans mark one (at the time I wasn't 100 percent but it didn't take me long to realise that as a system it was the greatest bargain in hifi). I sold the Nait and Kans (a few years ago), also I am down to just 3000 lps- I don't really play records anymore, even though I've still got the Linn, but its not been touched for a long long time... I might have to go to Cheshire Audio as clearly it does need a skilled hand on it, though I wonder about cost ? . It probably isn't the best ever turntable but it's very close. I never found a record that didn't fit that spindle....
I bought my LP12 in the mid 1990's after about 3 years of Axis. Only the drive, tonearm and pickup remained the same. But I was able to relive my entire record collection. Later, in addition to the obligatory Lingo, came an Ittok and an Asaka and with them I am satisfied to this day.
Great video. I restored an LP12 a few years back. I put a Litz wired RB330 on it with the intention of upgrading it later, but never got round to it before I punted it. I think there’s a certain romanticism around LP12s that doesn’t quite live up to the real world sound you get from them. My RP6 with Ania cartridge running through the same amp and speakers sounded waaaaay better IMO.
I think the Linn is good, i have had one myself, but i think the upgrades and price of it is crazy. I also had a Linn axis which is great but the power supply goes. There is an upgrade every 5 minutes, if its good why so many upgrades and the drive belt is £50. If i was to buy one again it would be a second hand one with either a Linn ittok LVIII, or an Ekos 1, because they are very good arms and don't cost £5000, or an arm from John at AO, oh and it was John who recommended you to me. Have you heard about the systemdek 3D. What about SME turntables, they have been around i think either 20 or 30 years longer than LINN. Thank you.
It’s not all about marketing, if you listen to it , it’s got something special, it just pulls every bit of music out of the record, I have 5 different turntables but the LP12 is my favourite
A couple of my closest friends have from memory LP12s from the 80s , both of which have had various upgrades over the years. Both friends rate them as a deck for life and i kind of agree , there is plenty of competition of course but comes down to personal taste i think what floats your boat.
Totally agree with your point on the upgrades being dubious. Very clever marketing is the reason the deck is so revered rather than great engineering. However, I have heard one back in the 80s and I did quite like the sound, so they must be doing something right, but I prefer non suspended decks. This set of videos ua-cam.com/video/NShC0teKzDk/v-deo.html shows just how fiddly they can be to set up, and some of the engineering looks positively weak.
I have a Pink Triangle PT1, I had the arm upgraded, an RB300 rewired by Audio Origami, and fitted by #cymbiosis A few years ago mind you, it made the Linn Majik LP12 sound dull and uneventful in an A/B comparison. The cartridge was a Rega Elys2 at that time, I now have a Dynavector 10x5, it lifts the sound to a new level.
All the Hi Fi mags used to review the xpensive mods for the Sondek.. Every time they hyped them with phrases like massive improvement etc. 30 yrs of these year on year huge leaps in sound quality would have made the original sound crap.. Jimmy Hughes did a 30 yr Aniversary review and said he liked the original 1973 the most
the Dais is exceptional ... I have a customer locally who bought one here last year and has now fitted an Anna arm (replacing an SME) and a Kiseki Agate cartridge, I'm not sure I've heard anything better
I bought mine in the 80s and still have it. I listened to a lot of decks and for me it was the one that worked for me. I did not really have the money but just had to get one. Never regretted it and money well spent.
@@karenjobagy5822 I do not follow the hifi scene these days so no idea how they all stack up, I do know that when it is set up properly, in the day they were stunning. Linn still make good kit but they over price their kit because they want to maintain the brand as a premium label.
@@Jdsofar I bought the Linn in 1987 with an Ittok arm, Valhalla power supply and a Linn MM cartridge and it came to the grand sum of £1,289.90.Just as an eye watering cost then as today.
Grossly over hyped TT but also an important one as quite rightly, Linn drew attention to the importance of quiet running , well isolated, speed stable turntables and drew people’s attention to the importance of source components. Other makers had already got well ahead by then like the top Pioneer and Marantz decks but they were serious money back then. I remember examining one as well as listening to it back in the 90’s and thinking it wasn’t hugely better than a well set up thorens. It was good but not outstanding. Since then Linn sort of used customers as beta testers constantly revising and coming out with upgrade after upgrade increasing prices to a ludicrous level really. Anyone thinking these are better than anything else obviously hasn’t looked too much at their competition today. A mid priced Linn will buy a better Acoustic Signature and a top Linn will be bettered by a cheaper Brinkmann. There is a bewildering choice, far more than back in the day and £5k to £8K will really buy as good a TT as you’ll likely ever hear if chosen wisely and certainly one that betters a Linn at twice the price. All imho of course but yes, now a grossly over hyped TT. Gyro with a decent arm can be good but I was put off after mine wore through a bearing in 15 years despite being well looked after and a replacement bearing was silly money. I was blown away with how easily bettered it was by many mid priced decks today but at least Michell have kept prices very reasonable and affordable which Linn have not . Since then I’ve bought a well regarded German made high mass platter TT which is breath takingly good and easily bettered an LP 12 looked at which was twice the cost as in well into 5 figures. They have real competition now and don’t fair as well for the money.
I have a Thorens TD 150 improved by Loricraft to make it almost like a Linn Sondek. It has a new and bigger plinth, a broader arm board, an SME 3009 tonearm with a Shure V15IVHE (NOS) and a Van den Hull cable. I think it was modified mid to late 80s and at the time was claimed to be as good as, or even better, than the Sondek. I've never seen another Loricraft modded TD150 than my own, and I can't find any info on the net. I wonder if anyone knows how it truly compares with the Linn Sondek, or if anyone has a suggestion for another arm/MC cartridge.
Thanks for the interesting information my friend. I always wanted a sondek but me being me I'd spend shed loads of money on it and find myself in the divorce courts.🤗😹
The pink triangle I had was a joke it never worked properly the speed could not be set properly it was either to slow or to fast or unstable where it needed to be set i drove down to the factory from Yorkshire picked it up same day power supply had been taken out and a plug power supply in its place it lasted a day so I gave up with it and bought a sondek no problems after that!
FYI. Single point bearings existed prior to Linn. Connoisseur BD1 , Empire Troubadour , Ariston RD11 ,Thorens TD160. And others !! The patent hearing was bunk.
I must admit that I’ve never had a hankering for a sondek.They look a bit dated now-not that it makes any difference how they look.I’ve got friends who have owned them and told me their nothing special sonically and there are better sounding turntables out there for the same outlay.Each to their own I suppose.
In the 80's I compaired the Sondek to the Pink Triangle and the pink won (the Sondek was too safe sounding for me), but turned out to unreliable, so I went to Michell but they never quite hit the spot for me, then after saying I would never get a turntable without suspension I ended up going the Rega route, excellent value for money, cheap and easy to upgrade, just don't use Rega cartridges!
In 1984 I got a Rega Planar 3 blank turntable and had a Linn tone arm and cartridge installed. Tandberg pre and power amps and McIntosh boat anchor speakers. XR-16
I’ve got a theorems td150 which I inherited from my dad… I’ve refurbished it and am now refurbishing another…. Known as the “poor man’s” lp12 at the time.
The LP12 seemed to dominate HiFi shops in the 1980s and 90s and it was difficult to hear alternatives. Some tried to promote the Roksan Xerxes and was there a turntable called The Rock with an Excaliber arm? Other than that, I just remember it being Linn all the way. Fact is, clever auditioning meant I could hear the difference and liked what I heard. Having said that, I was a willing believer! Nowadays? 100% streaming.
Personally, I'm still stuck in the pre-Sondek era with a Thorens TD160, SME3009 and Shure V15iii (with Jico stylus) and I'm quite happy. My view on the Sondek is that it is a well made and lovely piece of kit, but it comes with the baggage of magic fairy dust and pseudo-homeopathic ingredients to justify its semi-mystical image. I also seem to recall (happy to be corrected) that when it first appeared it was priced at around £100 without arm. So yes, I'd like one because it's a good piece of kit, but I'm not interested in the hype and bluster which are part of its (as you described it) clever marketing.
Probably a wise decision. Linn gear is outrageously expensive and is as you say mostly pseudo-homeopathic. I mean, they have a line of streamers, which looks nice and all. But they're also crazy expensive and will sound exactly the same as a 50 dollar Chromecast or similar. I also, never understood how a Linn LP12 can be better (as many audiophiles believe) than say a nice Technics direct drive like a SL-1200. The Technics have better specs, lower wow and flutter higher SNR/less rumble. A turntable just need to do two things. Spinn the record at the right speed and keep vibrations and noise out. A lot of rather cheap japanese direct drives does this better than any incarnation of the LP12.
This turntable had a far better dynamic range then any other turntable I heard back in the mid 80's. The Gyrodec was no where near the LP12 and either was the Ariston, Thorens or AR's. The Rega's sound good but they were Midfi compared to the LP12. Sold then all and had them all. Run a late Model Sota Nova atm. Whats a P8 new in the UK compared to this?
Maybe try and get a second hand Cirkus bearing? For the musical performance of an LP12 it's a very important upgrade. It should also be quite easy to find (and cheap) when many owners are upgrading to the new Karousel bearing.
Well I’m still using a completely stock 1974 LP12 and it’s fine with its sexy SME 3009. Oh shit I’ve had to put new springs in....once! Doesn’t matter what’s best it’s what works.
Hi sir interesting to hear you say that it might not hold up to a P8 . I suppose I’m more than a bit old school when it comes to the Linn . It is probably just because it’s such an icon , it seems some how to exude quality and refinement . Of course it is swimming in a very large pony , and many of your better informed followers will be fuming at my defence of such a mile stone in hifi history . But I feel I must stand my ground and say if anyones system is better than what a LP 12 can deliver , then it is definitely in with the top end of the hifi market . And lest we forget if one was to install a top end cartridge on such a deck as the LP 12 then the difference would be I’m sure quite amazing .
It was and is a truly excellent three point sprung suspension turntable but also unfortunately spawned a great deal unwarranted hype as did other Linn products such as the Isobarik speakers. Good but flawed speakers that were outperformed in many ways by competing designs. But don't tell that to a hard core Linnie. Most of the hyperbole and mystical claims originated with Linn's owner Ivor T. and cheerlead by a few British audio publications that rode on the coat tales of all things Linn.
Quite interesting but a few inaccuracies. At 84 the Nirvana and Valhalla were standard. Pre Valhalla they had a red push button power switch (the rocker had been dropped long before that. 84 would have been just before corner bracing. Overall though an interesting video - thanks.
The reason they lost in court is the Fons guy and the Ariston guy worked FOR Linn when they designed the bearing. The bearings in the early fons were the same design made to a closer tolerance subcontracted to the same machine shop that made the bearings for Linn. Linn sued Fons/Ariston (they merged early in the game)( a library search of old phone books shows before the merge the shared the same office) to stop them from using the design because they paid for the design. Fons lost and was ordered not to use the bearings anymore. Personally not a fan of Linn bouncers.
Just research Hamish Robertson to learn who really designed the Linn. BTW there are several examples of single point bearings that pre date the Linn. Even the lowly Thorens TD 160 with the 10 mm spindle pre dates the Linn. The patent hearing was a sham.
You could be right, certainly the Nirvana kit... I have a feeling that the Valhalla arrived after the corner braced plinth... but I can’t alway trust my memory... I’ll ask the owner, he’s had it from new
@@cheshireaudio The Valhalla was introduced in 1982, I reckon that deck is specified as it was from new. The Valhalla was massively popular (it wasn’t an expensive upgrade), most decks would have been supplied with it after 1982 up until the Lingo was introduced.
@@cheshireaudio I did not know the Jocks manufacturerd anything, i just imagined Scotland to be hills and sheep but still, I will never buy made in Scotland as Made in the UK is much better, the Jock's should grow up and stop the hate of the UK and start putting made in the UK as without the English Tax Payer, Scotland would be a third world country if it were independent plus they will never be independent as England will never allow it 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Great vid Phil. My fave is the cherry finish. But yours looks nice too. Some love for the old fluted ones like you. Yes linn the costly upgrades these days are crazy.... I think a top line one is £20k ouch
Had a lp12 for 20+ years, liked it very much. However, today linn are really ridiculously expensive. I’ve got an rp8 now, defitinely like that better and a lot easier to set up. At linn prices you can get an eg an origin live deck which really is in another league. Linn seem to be beating an old design, no real innovation there.
The guy has a real Linn Sondek to discuss and he never removes the platter to show the spring suspension which is the heart of the technology and made it special and controversial, Wasted opportunity.
If you break the Linn down to it's components and materials, then it is vastly overpriced. It was never the best TT and is even less so today. It was certainly the best marketed.
I had 2 versions. Early design n a mid 80’s. The build quality of the base/plinth was just shocking. Hollow n minimal bracing internally n covered by a thin piece of 3mm mdf sheet at the bottom. The plater n everything else was the same in both models. Just shocking. Over hyped item. Hard to self critise when one spends a heap of money on it.
I remember the introduction, Linn then moved to a new factory , further away from the highway, just to eliminate vibrations from the traffic, which had an effect on the manufacture of the LP12 bearings ......
Allways been well engineered,but i believe overpriced now,and dated design,there are many more musical tt out there that look more attractive,just as well engineered,and lower cost.
Funny, the LP12 wasn't even the best deck at the time, let alone now......The first deck you looked at it the Retro series beats it hands down, for a start!!
I wonder what the Linn LP12 would look like, or even exist, if Thorens made washing machines instead of turntables. Its a blatant rip off of the 1965 Thorens TD150.
when offering up "expert" opinions on high grade audio equipment, might want to consider the audio quality of the post and articulation. Sorry to say but difficult to take comments seriously when audio of video is this bad. Could hardly understand a word.
if the LP 12 was a band it would be Led Zeppelin (-: no hype, no mystique, got my Linn 25 years ago and never looked back, makes Rega look and sound like a toy.
LInn electronics were far and away the most unreliable products ever made. I knew so many who had amps, preamps , cd players and even some of the decks that all developed faults. Over priced and lacking in all the promises, it was a case of the king's new clothes. They sold so much on the back of the LP12 and it was a nightmare ending. The first amp pre amp made by Linn to drive the big isobariks was a disaster, LK 1 and 2 . It lacked any power to drive 12 units , some very heavy ones too in the bass. Live and learn I guess. True, the present day prices of upgrades and the top end deck of LINN is just Disney category .
Linn Sondek was the best door stop in the world.. It was a average turntable and it's still average. You have NO CLUE about turntables.. VPI for on trounced this as did most of the others. Linn is rubbish
It's not total garbage but it is a completely overhyped, temperamental rip-off for what it is... I've listened to a few over the years and they all failed to live up to the reputation. The flat-earth brigade won't say anything about an sp-10 or an EMT as they don't know of the existence of anything outside of the Linn/Naim universe. A well fettled Garrard 301/401 with a good plinth and a 3012 with a decent cartridge blows it away and would cost a lot less.
I did not know the Jocks manufacturerd anything, i just imagined Scotland to be hills and sheep but still, I will never buy made in Scotland as Made in the UK is much better, the Jock's should grow up and stop the hate of the UK and start putting made in the UK as without the English Tax Payer, Scotland would be a third world country if it were independent plus they will never be independent as England will never allow it 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Another correction:- the black bolts(nirvana) was introduced in 1982. So if this deck is an 84 it would have come with the nirvana black bolts and Valhalla as standard and not added later as you suggest. Nice review otherwise.
Bought my Sondek in 1979. Has the red push-in starter and no updates at all. And now 43 odd years later, it is still the same and works perfectly. It is fitted with a
Syrinx gold arm and Asak cartridge. Just the stylus has been changed. Brilliant!!!
I'm getting the same one soon, but just the deck without the handle and the rest. So if you have any advice, I would appreciate
Hi Phil, thanks for reviewing an old friend. I got my first of three LP12's in 1984 and bought into the Life For Life" proposition. All three had the gorgeous ridged afromosia plynth. These days, I listen to 100% streamed digital and still use 3 different Linn LK (from the early 2000's) systems with various speakers to enjoy all my music. I love their compact chassis and wonderful sound for my taste. I have every intention of enjoying them the rest of my life.
BTW, the LP12 was never inexpensive for most, myself included. I did a lot of savings and sacrificed to get my first Linn. Nontheless, it truly enhanced my life so it was all worth it.
Cheers!
Linn has a mystique because no one thought turntables even made a difference at the time it was introduced. It was thought that turntables were completely passive devices and speakers were where the rubber met the road. Linn showed that acoustic isolation, speed stability, controlling motor noise and reducing extraneous motion between stylus and groove were important. While perhaps never being the best turntable and highly derivative of Ed Villchur's AR design, it was nevertheless a novel demonstration of the relative importance of source components.
It's true. Linn aggressively promulgated the idea that turntables affected the final sound being extracted and they were right. Then they capitalized on this by demonstrating at audio trade shows well set up LP-12s blowing away myriads of Japanese direct drives nailed to hollow bases. But it's fair to point out that earlier on, many Thorens TD-125 and Ariston RD-11 fans and were claiming that music sounded more realistic on their turntables. The idea of the better sounding turntable was originally pitched by Ariston (where Linn's Ivor T. worked at the time) and which later spawned Linn. In fact the original Ariston RD-11 and the early Linn LP-12 were almost clones of each other.
@@socksumi IMO Thorens, Linn and Ariston all owe a debt of gratitiude to Ed Villchur's AR turntable, and I wish Ivor T. had given some credit where credit is due. However, it was Linn that took the idea head on that the turntabie made no difference, and I can give them credit for that at least, resulting in a mixture of truth and hype that will probably remain unsurpassed.
God that brings back memories!
Absolute bollocks that Linn invented the notion that turntables were important, or Technics would have made the SP10 out of plasticine.
@@jhuc2869 I don't even know what material the Technics SP10 is made from, but I was around at the time when Linn became the talk of the town. The prevailing belief was that the speakers were the overwhelmingly important component because all sound was generated there. Turntables were considered passive devices. The philosophy that the source component was of major importance may have predated Linn, but it was far from being the predominant belief. Linn had people taking a second look not only at turntables, but other source components like tape decks as well. It just made sense that if you didn't have an accurate signal to start with, the components down the chain would not be able to correct the deficits.
Could never Afford a Linn back in The day So i ended up buying a Ariston RD80 which had the Linn Basik LVV tonearm, Which i still have and use daily.. Although Its Now over 40 years old now it stills works, Sounds Great and the as the old saying goe's ,,if it ain't broke don't fix it.....Great Video By The Way.
How much was a Linn in the 80s? I never got the appeal of them to me they look ancient.
Linn have made some great Hifi and I live very close to their factory here in Glasgow Scotland. I've had two LP12 Sondeks first very similar to the one on your video bought in 1988 with an Ittok tonearm and K18 Cart. Currently have a Technics 1200GR with Ortofon 2M Black and prefer it to the LP12 with rock solid build quality and precise speed - I had Valhalla and Hercules power supplies in my LP12s and found them to be weakest parts. Still have my Linn Kaber speakers from the early 90s on my main Hifi and a pair of Linn Tukan speakers on my desk - both really good. My son has his eyes on getting my Linn Majik-I amp which I replaced with a Yamaha AS-1100 so all my Linn gear still playing music well for decades now. Linn's prices for their HiFi no longer appeal to the masses more so for the yacht clubs but the second hand market is where I would be picking up their gear now.
Sometime later.
I own and like my LP12 but was surprised that a Lenco with an Ittok arm did somethings better. The stability of speed - no stylus drag (?) - or something made it draw new clarity from the records.
As a fun loving bunch of hippies, bikers, music lovers and hedonists...many of us back in the 80's explored drugs, music and hifi (and many other things😂)...and so had a mix of linn/naim, thorens / armstrong, garrard / marantz, mitchell and quad gear .... but for me, my pink triangle and little myst amp were somehing special ...which I loved (....and luckily I must of had a good ones as they had zero issues for over a decade) which I eventually sold to friend to then go travelling! Which are still going strong with the usual sevicing.
Now I just have a digital based system - hard drive media and stream....but still remember those good old days...but unlike many vinyl enthusiasts I never liked all phaff and ceremony of vinyl...but it sure sounded good.
Watched this a few times now and love your general hifi advice. I had been seriously considering popping over and having a listen and a chat about the Rega P8 and Nottingham turntables that you recommended on your channel but distance is an issue for me as I am housebound and I rely on my wife to drive.
Unfortunately I had to find someone closer to me in South Yorkshire but did feel a bit guilty as I watch every video you put on UA-cam. I took the plunge and after nearly 50 years wanting one I have purchased a 2022 Linn LP12. It’s being delivered and set up tomorrow.
Due to blowing my budget I had to go for the Sumiko Pearl cartridge to put me on but I am sure I will need to upgrade later so will be in touch sometime next year for something better. I will be happy to do this over the phone and will be also happy to have it posted to give you a sale.
Once again thank you for all your videos Phil including your news and record reviews, I have bought several on your trusted recommendations. You have one of the very best channels on UA-cam
I bought an LP12 in the late eighties and only sold it two years ago. With hindsight my current Origin Live Resolution is a much better turntable, the sound is astonishing.
Thanks for putting the sondek in context - your experience is priceless!
Purchases my Sondek in the early 80s second hand. Continued to upgrade the deck to the highest spec over years. Eventually it was partnered with the Linn Ekos Arm and Linn Troika Cartridge. Absolute superb sound output partnered with the Naim HI Cap, 32 Pre amp, 250 Power amp and Linn Saras. Happy days!! I don’t have the set up now but after 30 years the resale values were incredible. Never had any problems with Sondek in terms of reliability. My first T.T was a Dual 505-1. Great interesting review and look forward to further trips down memory lane👍
I think every serious audiophile has had a Dual 505 mk 1 as a first deck until funds allowed something more expensive
It was the engineering specs that sold me initially, but when I got it home I was completely blown away. Add some Naim amplification and some Linn speakers (Isobariks) and it was truly stunning. Not much has been said about the older Naim amps but these were pivotal bits of kit. Your mention of the Pink Triangle and other bits of kit brought memories flooding back, wonderful. Oh, and I still have it all, just wish I'd never sold the 250 to get the 135s. Glorious times the eighties, or is it just nostalgia?
Enjoyed the video. I bought my Linn Sondek in 1987 and I still use it almost daily. It’s superbly engineered and it’s the best thing I’ve ever bought. In recent years I removed the Valhalla and instead am using a Heed Orbit power supply for it which also does 45rpm. I have videos of it on my You Tube channel
I have an Isokinetik Isodrive branded Heed Audio power supply on one of my much modified Rega planers, it's not behaving properly and will be investigated soon. As can be seen on my channel. 😉
@@jimsregaturntableshifijukebox mine is the Heed Orbit 1 which is also external power supply. The Valhalla has been removed from the inside of the LP12 and replaced with the PCB supplied with the Heed Orbit 1. It’s been a worthwhile upgrade and was done about 5 years ago.
@@sam66hazmal mine is marked on the back: Designed and manufactured by Heed Audio. As can be seen on one of my case opening videos, it is marked "Series 2" on the inner case, PCB. This I am led to believe makes it a Heed Orbit 1, as it is the two speed model. It was supplied with the Heed branded turntable PCB, too.
@@jimsregaturntableshifijukebox I’ve not had any issues with it and is used daily. I noticed an improvement in the sound with a noticeable quieter background.
I use my LP12 almost daily, I did a video on my channel showing a speed stability test and I have no issues with it.
I opted for the Heed as it was far cheaper than most alternatives.
What issues have you had with yours?
@@sam66hazmal I'm hoping after some investigation it's the Rega motor that's faulty, but Cheshire Audio's channel says this is VERY rare. Hope to start investigating in next couple of weeks, all being well.
Thanks replying. 😉
Very informative Philip as usual and dispels a number of myths.
My Sondek used to suffer with radio breakthrough until I had it Lingoed which cured it. At the time I thought that I was using the best deck ever. After all Chris Frankland said so and nobody seemed to disagree! The best turntable that I ever saw and heard is the Kronos unit. If I had the money for one of those it might tempt me back into vinyl!
if I recall Chris Frankland later wrote an article in one of the mags titled "Sheer STD" in which he came out in favour of the STD over the Linn. I think it was in the late 70s. That caused some controversy.
@@patientdog1651 I remember Chris Frankland from when he was editor of Popular HIFI mag. The Linn LP12 fitted with the Ittok arm and Asak cartridge was his top deck choice.
Got my one in 85….only mods are arm board and motor …..recent springs sand grommets…still love it …would never sell it …. Best hifi investment I ever made ….
i have owned a Linn LP12 / Ittok for 25 years, i am always amazed at its sound quality especially with modern recordings. I traded in an Ariston RD80/Linn basik for it because i liked the design. I have made improvements to the power supply/speed controls and replaced the hardboard base, Collaro mat, never ceased to be pleased.
The early pre Valhalla upgrade, Linn Sondeks, were coloured and lacked resolution compared to a Pink Triangle or an Oracle turntable, but were more engaging due to their superior pace, rhythm and timing.
However, post the various upgrades, Sondeks are far less coloured and have become highly resolving without losing their PRaT. That said, it is possible to come close to or to even better the current range of Linn's decks sonic capabilities with tts from Rega, Pro-ject and even Technics for far less money.
Hello Sir,over the years i've heard a few Sondeks at different stages of their upgrade paths and I still think the Townshend Rock/Excalibur is the absolute best turntable i've ever heard.
Played through a large active Meridian system it was astonishing,never heard bass reproduction like it.
I Could not agree more, I have a Rock as well as an LP12, as good as the Linn is the Townsend is superior, the only decks I have heard that are better than the Rock are the vintage Garrard 301 & 401 IMO
I had a Townsend Rock Reference and arm. Obliterated the Linn.
I was always a bit put off the Sondek because of the hype so I went with a Pink and then a Voyd. I agree 100% that prices for upgrades now seem very expensive. I still think its a lovely looking TT though. Thanks for the video
Some of us could never afford the Linn when it first came out and had to settle for a Sugden Connoisseur BD1 Kit with an SAU2 arm, had that all the way through Uni
I wish that I had bought one instead of the unreliable Pink Triangle. The Pink had a wider sound stage and more detail to my ears but spent months away being repaired. I will probably buy one next year but will make do with my Systemdek XII 900 in the meantime.
Hi Tony.. I ended up ditching the motor and speed controller and installed a DC motor and controller / power supply in its space om my Lpt (little pink thing gti export) now its perfect I love it... I also have a Sondek x900. Great deck also.. I found the LP 12 too twitchy.. Kindest regards, John.
My Pink Triangle (PT01) is still working after 37+ years, I have an AO RB300 modded arm, along with a Rega Elys2 cartridge, apart from the scratched lid, it is working very well. Upgraded and serviced recently by #cymbiosis. I met AK a few years ago at a show and at a dealer where he was showing off his warez. It sounded "Majikal" compared to an LP12 Majik.
I bought my LP12 in 1982 and have had it upgraded over the years with the new bearing being installed a few weeks ago. The sound improvements over the years have been huge. I agree the upgrades can be eye watering expensive and that is why I wait for Linn’s promotions eg my newly installed Karousel bearing came free when I bought a new Linn cartridge and had my Akurate DS updated. I absolutely love my LP12.
I have a completely original LP12 1988 that I use weekly, Black and still looks as new.....Ittok LV Mkll and Troika.......still plays perfectly !!
Audio is subjective so nothing can be the best ever. I have restored and owned LP12’s over the years and personally I thought they were overpriced and overrated for the performance you get. What gets my goat even more is how Linn ‘rewards’ customer loyalty; charging stupid sums of money for their upgrade paths.
I also had a very late model Heybrook TT2 with the final sub chassis design, ran that with modified Rega arms and a Project Carbon 9 arm and comparing that to the Linn’s I felt it was far more open and revealing.
Personally for me, Nottingham Analogue did everything I wanted at the right price point.
I bought my LP12 in 1982 and by 1985 I had upgraded the arm and had the valhalla board fitted. After doing this I bought about 8000 LP's and true to the hype I played mine everyday. I got it as part of the £1000 hi fi, which was an LP12 with basic a naim nait and a pair of Linn Kans mark one (at the time I wasn't 100 percent but it didn't take me long to realise that as a system it was the greatest bargain in hifi). I sold the Nait and Kans (a few years ago), also I am down to just 3000 lps- I don't really play records anymore, even though I've still got the Linn, but its not been touched for a long long time... I might have to go to Cheshire Audio as clearly it does need a skilled hand on it, though I wonder about cost ? . It probably isn't the best ever turntable but it's very close. I never found a record that didn't fit that spindle....
My first Linn was purchased in 1983, the Valhalla LP12 fitted with Ittok and Asak with Naim 42/110 and Linn Kan speakers. Superb sound.
I bought my LP12 in the mid 1990's after about 3 years of Axis. Only the drive, tonearm and pickup remained the same. But I was able to relive my entire record collection. Later, in addition to the obligatory Lingo, came an Ittok and an Asaka and with them I am satisfied to this day.
I have one just like it!
Rosewood Plinth, Valhalla, Pre Circus bearing, Black Ittok, Troika.
Cheers!
Great video. I restored an LP12 a few years back. I put a Litz wired RB330 on it with the intention of upgrading it later, but never got round to it before I punted it. I think there’s a certain romanticism around LP12s that doesn’t quite live up to the real world sound you get from them. My RP6 with Ania cartridge running through the same amp and speakers sounded waaaaay better IMO.
lol
I think the Linn is good, i have had one myself, but i think the upgrades and price of it is crazy. I also had a Linn axis which is great but the power supply goes. There is an upgrade every 5 minutes, if its good why so many upgrades and the drive belt is £50. If i was to buy one again it would be a second hand one with either a Linn ittok LVIII, or an Ekos 1, because they are very good arms and don't cost £5000, or an arm from John at AO, oh and it was John who recommended you to me. Have you heard about the systemdek 3D. What about SME turntables, they have been around i think either 20 or 30 years longer than LINN. Thank you.
Great video Phil, thanks for sharing your knowledge, really enjoyable. Loving the channel.
It’s not all about marketing, if you listen to it , it’s got something special, it just pulls every bit of music out of the record, I have 5 different turntables but the LP12 is my favourite
A couple of my closest friends have from memory LP12s from the 80s , both of which have had various upgrades over the years.
Both friends rate them as a deck for life and i kind of agree , there is plenty of competition of course but comes down to personal
taste i think what floats your boat.
Totally agree with your point on the upgrades being dubious. Very clever marketing is the reason the deck is so revered rather than great engineering. However, I have heard one back in the 80s and I did quite like the sound, so they must be doing something right, but I prefer non suspended decks.
This set of videos ua-cam.com/video/NShC0teKzDk/v-deo.html shows just how fiddly they can be to set up, and some of the engineering looks positively weak.
I have a Pink Triangle PT1, I had the arm upgraded, an RB300 rewired by Audio Origami, and fitted by #cymbiosis A few years ago mind you, it made the Linn Majik LP12 sound dull and uneventful in an A/B comparison. The cartridge was a Rega Elys2 at that time, I now have a Dynavector 10x5, it lifts the sound to a new level.
All the Hi Fi mags used to review the xpensive mods for the Sondek.. Every time they hyped them with phrases like massive improvement etc. 30 yrs of these year on year huge leaps in sound quality would have made the original sound crap.. Jimmy Hughes did a 30 yr Aniversary review and said he liked the original 1973 the most
You've convinced me, I am now saving up for a Nottingham Dais!
the Dais is exceptional ... I have a customer locally who bought one here last year and has now fitted an Anna arm (replacing an SME) and a Kiseki Agate cartridge, I'm not sure I've heard anything better
As a repair tech I love them. The power supply is unreliable and I can change more than normal to fix it.
Pretty much a cult like the 1200 cult.
Good turntable I agree with you they just went silly money 👍👍
I bought mine in the 80s and still have it. I listened to a lot of decks and for me it was the one that worked for me. I did not really have the money but just had to get one. Never regretted it and money well spent.
My 1988 LP12 is put away but I put the Itok tonearm on my Orgin Live Calypso Mk1 and it is much better.The Linn table is overhyped and overpriced.
@@karenjobagy5822 I do not follow the hifi scene these days so no idea how they all stack up, I do know that when it is set up properly, in the day they were stunning. Linn still make good kit but they over price their kit because they want to maintain the brand as a premium label.
How much was it new in the 80s?
@@Jdsofar I cannot remember but pretty sure I still have the receipt. I will look it out later and let you know..
@@Jdsofar I bought the Linn in 1987 with an Ittok arm, Valhalla power supply and a Linn MM cartridge and it came to the grand sum of £1,289.90.Just as an eye watering cost then as today.
Grossly over hyped TT but also an important one as quite rightly, Linn drew attention to the importance of quiet running , well isolated, speed stable turntables and drew people’s attention to the importance of source components. Other makers had already got well ahead by then like the top Pioneer and Marantz decks but they were serious money back then.
I remember examining one as well as listening to it back in the 90’s and thinking it wasn’t hugely better than a well set up thorens. It was good but not outstanding. Since then Linn sort of used customers as beta testers constantly revising and coming out with upgrade after upgrade increasing prices to a ludicrous level really. Anyone thinking these are better than anything else obviously hasn’t looked too much at their competition today. A mid priced Linn will buy a better Acoustic Signature and a top Linn will be bettered by a cheaper Brinkmann. There is a bewildering choice, far more than back in the day and £5k to £8K will really buy as good a TT as you’ll likely ever hear if chosen wisely and certainly one that betters a Linn at twice the price. All imho of course but yes, now a grossly over hyped TT. Gyro with a decent arm can be good but I was put off after mine wore through a bearing in 15 years despite being well looked after and a replacement bearing was silly money. I was blown away with how easily bettered it was by many mid priced decks today but at least Michell have kept prices very reasonable and affordable which Linn have not . Since then I’ve bought a well regarded German made high mass platter TT which is breath takingly good and easily bettered an LP 12 looked at which was twice the cost as in well into 5 figures. They have real competition now and don’t fair as well for the money.
I have a Thorens TD 150 improved by Loricraft to make it almost like a Linn Sondek. It has a new and bigger plinth, a broader arm board, an SME 3009 tonearm with a Shure V15IVHE (NOS) and a Van den Hull cable. I think it was modified mid to late 80s and at the time was claimed to be as good as, or even better, than the Sondek. I've never seen another Loricraft modded TD150 than my own, and I can't find any info on the net. I wonder if anyone knows how it truly compares with the Linn Sondek, or if anyone has a suggestion for another arm/MC cartridge.
Thanks for the interesting information my friend. I always wanted a sondek but me being me I'd spend shed loads of money on it and find myself in the divorce courts.🤗😹
The pink triangle I had was a joke it never worked properly the speed could not be set properly it was either to slow or to fast or unstable where it needed to be set i drove down to the factory from Yorkshire picked it up same day power supply had been taken out and a plug power supply in its place it lasted a day so I gave up with it and bought a sondek no problems after that!
FYI. Single point bearings existed prior to Linn.
Connoisseur BD1 , Empire Troubadour , Ariston RD11 ,Thorens TD160. And others !!
The patent hearing was bunk.
The mod to the spring adjustment is so simple it's bonkers.
All you need is 3 x. Nyloc 5 mm nuts. Total cost about 50 p UK money
Half a buck max US
Much preferred the speed stability and low noise of the high end Technics Direct drives myself.
My personal view as a former LP12 owner - it is good, but some more modern designs are better. It is completely outclassed by my AVID Acutus.
I must admit that I’ve never had a hankering for a sondek.They look a bit dated now-not that it makes any difference how they look.I’ve got friends who have owned them and told me their nothing special sonically and there are better sounding turntables out there for the same outlay.Each to their own I suppose.
You are missing out massively! I recently had an STD deck that the BBC used but the Linn is far better sounding.
which decks are better? Pink Triangle a contender but unreliable.
In the 80's I compaired the Sondek to the Pink Triangle and the pink won (the Sondek was too safe sounding for me), but turned out to unreliable, so I went to Michell but they never quite hit the spot for me, then after saying I would never get a turntable without suspension I ended up going the Rega route, excellent value for money, cheap and easy to upgrade, just don't use Rega cartridges!
In 1984 I got a Rega Planar 3 blank turntable and had a Linn tone arm and cartridge installed. Tandberg pre and power amps and McIntosh boat anchor speakers. XR-16
I’ve got a theorems td150 which I inherited from my dad… I’ve refurbished it and am now refurbishing another…. Known as the “poor man’s” lp12 at the time.
The LP12 seemed to dominate HiFi shops in the 1980s and 90s and it was difficult to hear alternatives. Some tried to promote the Roksan Xerxes and was there a turntable called The Rock with an Excaliber arm? Other than that, I just remember it being Linn all the way. Fact is, clever auditioning meant I could hear the difference and liked what I heard. Having said that, I was a willing believer! Nowadays? 100% streaming.
That arm will never look old.
Personally, I'm still stuck in the pre-Sondek era with a Thorens TD160, SME3009 and Shure V15iii (with Jico stylus) and I'm quite happy. My view on the Sondek is that it is a well made and lovely piece of kit, but it comes with the baggage of magic fairy dust and pseudo-homeopathic ingredients to justify its semi-mystical image. I also seem to recall (happy to be corrected) that when it first appeared it was priced at around £100 without arm. So yes, I'd like one because it's a good piece of kit, but I'm not interested in the hype and bluster which are part of its (as you described it) clever marketing.
Probably a wise decision. Linn gear is outrageously expensive and is as you say mostly pseudo-homeopathic. I mean, they have a line of streamers, which looks nice and all. But they're also crazy expensive and will sound exactly the same as a 50 dollar Chromecast or similar. I also, never understood how a Linn LP12 can be better (as many audiophiles believe) than say a nice Technics direct drive like a SL-1200. The Technics have better specs, lower wow and flutter higher SNR/less rumble. A turntable just need to do two things. Spinn the record at the right speed and keep vibrations and noise out. A lot of rather cheap japanese direct drives does this better than any incarnation of the LP12.
This turntable had a far better dynamic range then any other turntable I heard back in the mid 80's. The Gyrodec was no where near the LP12 and either was the Ariston, Thorens or AR's. The Rega's sound good but they were Midfi compared to the LP12. Sold then all and had them all. Run a late Model Sota Nova atm. Whats a P8 new in the UK compared to this?
Maybe try and get a second hand Cirkus bearing? For the musical performance of an LP12 it's a very important upgrade.
It should also be quite easy to find (and cheap) when many owners are upgrading to the new Karousel bearing.
All hype.
Beautifull deck!
Well I’m still using a completely stock 1974 LP12 and it’s fine with its sexy SME 3009. Oh shit I’ve had to put new springs in....once! Doesn’t matter what’s best it’s what works.
Hi sir interesting to hear you say that it might not hold up to a P8 . I suppose I’m more than a bit old school when it comes to the Linn . It is probably just because it’s such an icon , it seems some how to exude quality and refinement . Of course it is swimming in a very large pony , and many of your better informed followers will be fuming at my defence of such a mile stone in hifi history . But I feel I must stand my ground and say if anyones system is better than what a LP 12 can deliver , then it is definitely in with the top end of the hifi market . And lest we forget if one was to install a top end cartridge on such a deck as the LP 12 then the
difference would be I’m sure quite amazing .
It was and is a truly excellent three point sprung suspension turntable but also unfortunately spawned a great deal unwarranted hype as did other Linn products such as the Isobarik speakers. Good but flawed speakers that were outperformed in many ways by competing designs. But don't tell that to a hard core Linnie. Most of the hyperbole and mystical claims originated with Linn's owner Ivor T. and cheerlead by a few British audio publications that rode on the coat tales of all things Linn.
Quite interesting but a few inaccuracies. At 84 the Nirvana and Valhalla were standard. Pre Valhalla they had a red push button power switch (the rocker had been dropped long before that. 84 would have been just before corner bracing. Overall though an interesting video - thanks.
I've had 8 turntables and my favorite is still the LP12.
The reason they lost in court is the Fons guy and the Ariston guy worked FOR Linn when they designed the bearing.
The bearings in the early fons were the same design made to a closer tolerance subcontracted to the same machine shop that made the bearings for Linn.
Linn sued Fons/Ariston (they merged early in the game)( a library search of old phone books shows before the merge the shared the same office) to stop them from using the design because they paid for the design. Fons lost and was ordered not to use the bearings anymore.
Personally not a fan of Linn bouncers.
Just research Hamish Robertson to learn who really designed the Linn.
BTW there are several examples of single point bearings that pre date the Linn. Even the lowly Thorens TD 160 with the 10 mm spindle pre dates the Linn. The patent hearing was a sham.
Linn Sondek LP12 and Technics SL1200 are the best record players ever built since 1972
Was going to get a Linn but most have been messed with also dodgy upgrades.
Ah , the KashKow.
That deck could very well be a totally original 1984 spec deck, everything on that deck was available in 1984.
You could be right, certainly the Nirvana kit... I have a feeling that the Valhalla arrived after the corner braced plinth... but I can’t alway trust my memory... I’ll ask the owner, he’s had it from new
@@cheshireaudio The Valhalla was introduced in 1982, I reckon that deck is specified as it was from new. The Valhalla was massively popular (it wasn’t an expensive upgrade), most decks would have been supplied with it after 1982 up until the Lingo was introduced.
Interesting...
@@cheshireaudio I did not know the Jocks manufacturerd anything, i just imagined Scotland to be hills and sheep but still, I will never buy made in Scotland as Made in the UK is much better, the Jock's should grow up and stop the hate of the UK and start putting made in the UK as without the English Tax Payer, Scotland would be a third world country if it were independent plus they will never be independent as England will never allow it 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
i have an 88 version,ill never part with it ,always loved sondecks the moment i heard one back in 86 ....
To honest the engineering doesn’t warrant the price commanded.
I wouldn't go for a Linn or a Thorems, I prefer a sold chassis
Great vid Phil.
My fave is the cherry finish.
But yours looks nice too.
Some love for the old fluted ones like you.
Yes linn the costly upgrades these days are crazy.... I think a top line one is £20k ouch
Had a lp12 for 20+ years, liked it very much. However, today linn are really ridiculously expensive. I’ve got an rp8 now, defitinely like that better and a lot easier to set up. At linn prices you can get an eg an origin live deck which really is in another league. Linn seem to be beating an old design, no real innovation there.
Could not agree more.
The guy has a real Linn Sondek to discuss and he never removes the platter to show the spring suspension which is the heart of the technology and made it special and controversial, Wasted opportunity.
My brother runs a sondex. Not a bad turner
If you break the Linn down to it's components and materials, then it is vastly overpriced. It was never the best TT and is even less so today. It was certainly the best marketed.
I had 2 versions. Early design n a mid 80’s.
The build quality of the base/plinth was just shocking.
Hollow n minimal bracing internally n covered by a thin piece of 3mm mdf sheet at the bottom.
The plater n everything else was the same in both models.
Just shocking. Over hyped item. Hard to self critise when one spends a heap of money on it.
I remember the introduction, Linn then moved to a new factory , further away from the highway, just to eliminate vibrations from the traffic, which had an effect on the manufacture of the LP12 bearings ......
Do you really believe that nonsense.
Allways been well engineered,but i believe overpriced now,and dated design,there are many more musical tt out there that look more attractive,just as well engineered,and lower cost.
Funny, the LP12 wasn't even the best deck at the time, let alone now......The first deck you looked at it the Retro series beats it hands down, for a start!!
I don’t disagree ...
I wonder what the Linn LP12 would look like, or even exist, if Thorens made washing machines instead of turntables. Its a blatant rip off of the 1965 Thorens TD150.
when offering up "expert" opinions on high grade audio equipment, might want to consider the audio quality of the post and articulation. Sorry to say but difficult to take comments seriously when audio of video is this bad. Could hardly understand a word.
Still a copy of Ariston RD 11. That came out 1971.
You never did say how it sounded
if the LP 12 was a band it would be Led Zeppelin (-: no hype, no mystique, got my Linn 25 years ago and never looked back, makes Rega look and sound like a toy.
Finish looks like a very aged cherry wood to me.
No way the P8 is better 😮
I think they grossly over-priced for what they are. Get a good Thorens for half the price
And.... you don`t play it... slow clap..
LInn electronics were far and away the most unreliable products ever made. I knew so many who had amps, preamps , cd players and even some of the decks that all developed faults. Over priced and lacking in all the promises, it was a case of the king's new clothes. They sold so much on the back of the LP12 and it was a nightmare ending. The first amp pre amp made by Linn to drive the big isobariks was a disaster, LK 1 and 2 . It lacked any power to drive 12 units , some very heavy ones too in the bass. Live and learn I guess. True, the present day prices of upgrades and the top end deck of LINN is just Disney category .
The design was stolen from Ariston.
Linn Sondek was the best door stop in the world.. It was a average turntable and it's still average. You have NO CLUE about turntables.. VPI for on trounced this as did most of the others. Linn is rubbish
There’s one in every crowd.
Wonder what the Linn Sondek mafia has to say about likes of the Technics SP-10 and the EMT 927?
It's not total garbage but it is a completely overhyped, temperamental rip-off for what it is... I've listened to a few over the years and they all failed to live up to the reputation. The flat-earth brigade won't say anything about an sp-10 or an EMT as they don't know of the existence of anything outside of the Linn/Naim universe. A well fettled Garrard 301/401 with a good plinth and a 3012 with a decent cartridge blows it away and would cost a lot less.
Neither.
I did not know the Jocks manufacturerd anything, i just imagined Scotland to be hills and sheep but still, I will never buy made in Scotland as Made in the UK is much better, the Jock's should grow up and stop the hate of the UK and start putting made in the UK as without the English Tax Payer, Scotland would be a third world country if it were independent plus they will never be independent as England will never allow it 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Scotland is part of the UK, and the flag you are proudly waving contains the Scottish Saltire.
1984 LP12's did have Valhalla boards fitted as standard , the valhalla was introduced in 1982 :)
Another correction:- the black bolts(nirvana) was introduced in 1982. So if this deck is an 84 it would have come with the nirvana black bolts and Valhalla as standard and not added later as you suggest.
Nice review otherwise.