I was a stairbuilder for over 20 years. I stopped when I came into the office to take over the business from the owner. Just vetting myself a little, there. 😊 For never building a stair, this was quite well done! There are a few problems, a couple of which are fairly serious, but really it’s pretty amazing that it turned out as well as it did. Stairbuilding is one of the most difficult trades to learn and excel at, so you should be proud! The changes I am suggesting are to safety and structural integrity, and’s aren’t facile nitpicking. The changes I believe are necessary are as follows: 1. Attach the closed side of the treads to the studs in the wall. This is very important since you went with an open design with no risers. You aren’t just walking up that stair, you are also storing material up there that you probably will often be carrying up the stair, adding weight and stress to the treads and single stringer. So, this is an important, necessary addition. This is done fairly easy (and could still be done easily retrofitting). This is done by using a piece of 1/4” angle iron (or channeled) metal stock with a 90 degree bend at the closed end of the tread. The stock should be 4-5 inches wide and inlaid into the tread with a dado cut (using your table saw or router, whatever) lengthwise about 3” from the nose of the tread and an additional, deeper dado for the angle portion of the metal stock. The stock should have a 90 degree bend at the closed end and be 6” in length to attach to the framing, or added blocking in the wall. You can dado the tread and hide the metal support stock by having it countersunk by a 1/4” or 1/2” and then covering it with a 1/4” or 1/2” piece of the tread material inlaid. Then, on the closed end, you can cut out the drywall and attach the 90 degree end to the stud (or blocking you attach to the framing). Most of the time we used C channeled metal stock for additional support instead of angle iron. Once you attach it to the tread and the blocking in the wall, the stair will fex very little. A little bit of flexing on a circular stair is okay, but not for a open, straight stair of your design, which is a sign of structural issues. The treads will eventually pull out from the stringer, or the single stringer will continue to torsion until the structural integrity of the stringer is compromised beyond safe usage. A jerry-rigged solution that might suffice would be to use angle iron stock on the closed side, attached to the end of the tread and then secured to a stud or blocking you add in the wall. There are several ways you could do it, even mortising the stock into the closed end of the tread and attaching it to a stud or blocking. You need to do something, though, because you can do it now and it will be fairly simple, but if you wait until it starts to fail, your options disappear quickly. 2. The second issue is the attachment to the header (joist) under the landing of the 2nd floor. You have a ton of stress concentrated on a very small area. This will eventually sag the header and landing, and tear out or destroy the header, and that will be a difficult repair. Your stair is going to flex and tear out or compromise at that header attachment point pretty quickly ( I’m betting less than 5-10 years). You can accomplish this by adding another layer of 2x material behind the header (sandwiched) and then attach 1/4” angle iron to each side of your stringer, flush with the header, and then use all-thread through the header and another joist behind it to attack the angle iron (and stringer) to the header. You thread the all-thread through holes in the header and joist behind it, adding washers and nuts as you bring it into the header and joist. Then, tighten the nuts to both sides of the header and (at least) one joist behind it, and the angle iron. I would then add another piece of 2x material to the face of the header on each side of your stringer. This hides the angle iron and adds additional support to the sides of the stringer at the attachment point to the header. These additions are important and not difficult to accomplish. If you don’t do these, I think it will fail within 5-10 years, or it will start flexing so much as to be unsafe to ascend. I know it sucks when so-called “experts” chime in and nitpick everything you do. I like your channel and especially the spirit and can-do attitude you have. I learned a lot in my trade just by doing it. I built a lot of tools and jigs that old stairbuilders told me wouldn’t work or weren’t necessary, that then later they copied them or asked me to build one for them. So, I get the frustration you have with people like that. Sometimes, though, the “experts” are right, and this is especially poignant when safety is involved. I’m not talking into my hat, here, the changes I suggest (and there are other ways to accomplish what I suggested) are important. Don’t take my word for it, ask a local stairbuilder to give it a look-see and hear what he has to say. This was a really great build for never building a stair. Stairbuilding has a vicious learning curve, one that almost broke me in my first year in the trade. So, you should be proud of what you did. There are a couple of safety issues that need to be addressed, but overall you did a really great job! Keep up the good work and thanks for showing the world that hard work and a commitment to quality can make dreams come true!
Straight up great comment from start to finish on addressing the “ elephant in the staircase”. Having done many like this with the stringer being fabricated steel…..your 100% on point.😊
27:06 yeah. I thought the same, then seeing the stairs shift a bit side to side as he wipes it down here made me think he needs it mounted to the studs. And the bouncing at the end lmaooo
I like that this is a single tree. Maybe some structural reinforcement of the header board would be good. Everything has some deflection. Id be very happy with these stairs with a little flex
I'd screw an 8 to 10mm piece of spring steel plate at full length to the back of the centre beam to give a bit more bounce in your step.. think about it. 😁
Johnny Build- I couldn’t help but notice, after you bolted the beam in place you didn’t say “that’s not going anywhere”. This is really the only safe measure to insure it doesn’t go anywhere! 😃
It's hilarious how unskilled all of you are in this thread. Every decent craftsman understands that giving your work a slap before saying "that ain't goin nowhere!" is what triggers the spell.
As a carpenter who has built dozens of staircases and done a fair amount of timber framing, you've taken on the two Everests of most residential carpenters' existence! Other than Instrument, and Furniture making, these are the things that most House Carpenters will consider the pinnacle of finish carpentry. Neither of these types of projects are easy, and mistakes are extremely expensive. You guys did an amazing job on this one, especially for first timers!!
As a joiner I second this motion, although just to be awkward for assembly I would change the screws plan, to a couple of coach bolts from the back of the stringer
@@SandroMoiron Glad you like it, a dovetail on the stringer would be even better, with a stopped socket on the bottom of the threads 😉 but now we're probably getting carried away.
@@steves835 💯 Quality takes time, this I can't deny, maybe not double though, much of it could be achieved with a router on the stringer cuts and finished with a combination of tracksaw and chisel work, then completely achievable with a router ran in a simple jig for each thread.
A few years ago I repented to God then begged for help, "I was until then an Atheist." I then had a dream of Jesus coming before God and he spoke of the Tabernacle in perfect context, "A word I didn't know existed.", and what I felt from Jesus when I held him was unlike anything I've ever felt before - A lifetime of Love every second - It brought me to sobbing and it changed my life, forever. I've had Many experiences since, "Several witnessed", one was seeing a bright orb of light pass across my face in the dark, hours before a major surgery the second I gave up in my heart. Know that God and Jesus ARE real and that they Love us deeply. Let go of your hatred and Imagine yourself holding the people who've hurt you. Tell them you Love them. Always have hope, I believe that prayer, following God's laws & Love is the answer, and through that, Truly becoming humble, merciful, welcoming, giving, gentle, respectful, compassionate, patient, kind and forgiving, To All.
I think black plugs matching the stringer would have been a nice contrast, and might also serve as a low key visual aid, kind of like how different colored baseboards help separate walls from floors in your brain.
JohnnyBuild And you made tables for a Make-a-Wish charity! That's so awesome. My wife was a wish manager (pretty much a frickin Genie) there for years. One of the best organizations that does some of the most beautiful charity work. And I can speak from first hand knowledge just some of the best humans in the world work there.
Johnny Builds. The last "think about it" was awesome! Loved the ASMR of chiseling the plugs and appreciated the close ups so we could admire their beauty! 😄 Can't wait to see what kind of handrail you add - so many possibilities!
Impressed structural engineer here. It's probably stronger than it needs to be for concentric loading (walking up/down the middle of the stairs) but you'll be glad you used that massive piece of DF for torsional stiffness whenever you step out near the edges of the treads. I usually do these out of tube steel for that reason. Think about it. I might have beefed up the top and bottom connections though so keep an eye on it in case they loosen up over time, especially the bottom. But hey, no stamp no problem. Love your work man! From a fellow Cam.
From another structural engineer, I had the same comment.....timber pieces are 'overkill', connections are suspect.......I've done one with a tube steel stringer and broke steel sheet treads.
When a client pays thousands of dollars for the design of their custom stairs they do not want them to deflect noticeably when someone walks on them. That said, a tube steel diving board sounds pretty cool.
Sister the joist and add solid bridging to the next one over. Pull the joist hanger, sister the headers both ends. Install the proper joist hangers (double or triple) depending on the headers. Next one you do, extend the solid center notched stringer at top rise (this tread notch will be larger) so pressure blocks can be installed at the header - add this pressure block thickness to the overall stringer length. Pressure blocks will eliminate twist where the top of your stringer meets the header.
Cam, awesome staircase, looks beautiful. I'll preface this with "I'm not a structural engineer" but I think you should consider beefing up the header joist thing. Your old stair singers were mounted to the edges of the header therefore the header wasn't doing much other than being a riser. Your new stairs are mounted in the middle. Meaning that single joist is now supporting the full load.
@@jonerwood2314 you could probably get around having to do that by transferring some of the load to the floor using a beam from the floor to the underneath of the 5th or 6th step, make it fancy and make feature out of it.
Watching this thing flex under his weight while he was applying the m3 nano at the end gave me the willies. Top is held in by 2 bolts and 2 wood screws, and bottom is held to the concrete with two lags with an uneven coating under it letting it just rock back and forth. Both attachments need to be beefed up a ton, and the joist needs to either be beefed up, or a column added under the top stair to take the load off of it. Also not a structural engineer, but I've built a few staircases in my time. EDIT: I just saw the last little bit of the video. That joist is clearly flexing on every step. If it doesn't get beefed up it will eventually break and drop back; but I'm still not a structural engineer so I don't know how long that'll last without a fix.
Johnny build! I just want to tell you that you are the most incredibly entertaining wood worker on UA-cam! Thank you for all the truly laugh out loud moments.
I have built quite a few staircases over the years using concrete in situ, steel, and wood in various combinations. Even the really bulky I-Strings have a bit of give and flex, particularly on hot days.The only ones that don't have any flex are the ones attached to the walls around it via a wall string That goes for overhang concrete stairs aswell. The weakest point on stairs, obviously, normally, is where the riser and tread meet. Watching the video I was wondering whether you were going to inlay any steel under the string. Since this is your own staircase; If at any point the flex and give becomes too much, just add a metal plate, cut exactly like the string shape on a side view, to the wall side out of sight. Kind of laminating steel to wood. This is the same way old oak/cedar beams are strengthened. In my unprofessional opinion, you did a fantastic job. My only real concern is whether the floor joist at the top can handle the weight of the stairs. Having run into a problem on one that I did, I added more timber between 3 joists so that the staircase does not bend the joist where the string is fixed to. I don't really know what the structure looks like there and watched this video on my small phone screen.
Exactly what I was thinking as I was watching -" inlay a steel backbone". When you are walking on it it will flex (you won't feel it at that thickness but it's doing it). The stress points are like a zipper pattern in the string focussed on the inside of each of the 90 deg cuts. Each of those points will be greater or lesser than the one next to it radiating out from the center of the string to both ends in a hour glass pattern. When your body weight gets more or less to the center as you walk it will be the time of greatest stress which will be focused on the upper and lower most 90 degree inside cuts. Which gain a little strength back depending on how you attach at each end (so the ones next ot those becime the next weakest points.). If you attach a backbone this can also be tied to the ground and upper joist(like a suspension bridge to give a little additional support)
I built stairs in Canada for 20 years. Some easy many very difficult. You brought back a lot of great memories. Love your content, and the dialogue. Your channel is great!
I cannot properly explain how much I love the combination of honest reactions, friendly banter, snarky jokes, and real life applicable skills and advice. Everything from camera man/editor interactions to guests on the channel, its incredibly wholesome and enjoyable to watch. Fucking love your guy's work.
Johnny Builds is the man! Always there to add some extra hands. Even though he won't be collecting stacks of bands (free work), the work he does is never bland. Yes Johnny was right!!!!!!! Refinish those steps, and always listen to Johnny Builds.
John Builds, as an engineer it looks OK. I think the through bolts will hold the top OK, and if the plate is well attached to the wood then that is OK. The board you used looks like the size of 2-2x12's so that would be acceptable. The good thing to know is that if it fails it should crack and makes lots of noise before it does break so you will have a warning. Great to hear that the two tables sold for so very much.
I'd be more curious about the numbers on the individual treads, if someone were to stand on the edge thats a lot of leverage on deck screws, the rabbit joint wasn't that snug to provide much support...
John builds: Curious what the rise and run came out to be. 7” tall and 11” tread is usually the standard. Plus I wonder if the stringer he attracted to is blocked to it’s a joining rafter. Adding some blocks between the two could help take the twist/bounce out of it. Just a thought, and personally nothing can be over engineered when it comes to your shop. Having tags on every screw, now that is over kill. Also I personally like the contrast of the two colors.
@@richardconing7615 Big pieces of lumber are fine in torsion, the span isn't that long, and the threads themselves are clearly solid AF. I am more concerned, as everyone else is mentioning, that the connections top and bottom could use some beefing up.
Johnny Builds was a great addition to this video. You were funnier than usual, and that is one of the things I love about your videos-snarky humor. I also love fast motion on the cutting, sawing, chiseling, tapping, and so forth-loved it! The stairs are very cool 😎 thank you for recording the build , so we can all enjoy it!
Johnny Builds The only thing I could think of at the end when Scott asked "is it supposed to bounce" was "no, no it is not" . I always find your videos informative and entertaining, and like how you explain your thought processes. Thank you for making more.
Johnny Builds; Hey Cam, love the content, love this build, and I think you made the right choice on the finish. As an engineer, the only comment I would make technically would be to consider using slots on your floor tie plate. That really is just a safeguard against the cement floor and the stringer moving at different rates seasonally or as the timber cures. It would still be constrained in 2 degrees of freedom vertically and side to side you would just have slots going forward along the axis of the stairs. I might be a little paranoid. Just think about it.
at 26:09 you can slow it down a bit and see it move as he walks, better than the end I think. how big a deal is it? It freaks me out a little, as a non-engineer
@@zoox101 Like I said, I might just be paranoid. Or a perfectionist. The stringer is so stout and if we assume the concrete is properly poured and cured... Then honestly the weak link might be the fastener... Which would probably shear off before the stringer would crack. I'm reality the worst case scenario is probably just things bend up a bit during some seasons... Like a door getting stuck a bit when it's humid outside. Probably nothing to worry about.
Johnny builds. This staircase takes me back to my childhood. My neighbor and his brother built 4 homes together. The one I remember most had a floating staircase like this, only difference being the treads were significantly thinner. Always mesmerized me in how they stayed afloat. They were slick as snot and as kids we always crashed down them with our sock feet. He didn’t have nano finish but it was probably Turtle Wax back in the 80’s!
Johnny Builds... Wow! just watching Every Step from drying the beam to the final coat was exhausting!! I prefer the finish you put on, the one JB suggested looks too much like my new Cedar fence. Sending this go my 6'-10" Civil/Mechanical Engineer son, he'll love it! So creative and forever a conversation piece 😊
Your production values just keep improving. I build solid body electric guitars but enjoy all kinds of "maker" videos. You're probably my favorite of the woodworker vlogs. Thanks for your hard work and here's to chasing excellence in what we do!
Johnny builds......love it. It's too bad the stairs aren't where more people will see them daily but I guess us woodworking fans will see them in future videos. Nice job!!
Cool project. As far as the plugs are concerned, I would've seriously considered a contrasting color. A lesson learned from a designer that I worked with, he said if you can't make it perfect, make it intentionally imperfect. There's a 'design term' for this but I don't know what it is. Love ALL of your videos. Keep them coming.
Maybe that design term is "wabi sabi"? "Wabi-sabi nurtures all that is authentic by acknowledging three simple realities: nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect." Richard Powell
Johnny build. Those plugs all look good to me. "Think about it." I love the staircase and your creativity in designing and enlisting the help you had to do the job.
I think I prefer the invisible finish for this project. I typically prefer darker finishes, but the pure coat didn't have a strong enough contrast against the black for my tastes
I think the invisible finish on the beam and then the darker finish on the stairs would've been nice, or vice versa... I guess what I'm saying is I'm not the biggest fan of the black
Of the two choices you show, the invisible finish is far, far better looking than the other (yellow/orange tint). Love, love, love your channel, MOSTLY because of your amazing attitude with everything you do. After watching, I want to meet you and become a friend. Positive people make my day, no matter how we came in contact. You are great.
The Shelter Institute and other timber framers typically use green timbers. That's why the chisel work looks so nice because the wood is much softer and less brittle being wet still. Keep up the great work.
That's true. You can improve your ability to pare dry wood with a chisel or slick if you dab a little bit of linseed oil and turpentine blend on it a few minutes before you start.
As a structural engineer with 35 years experience, I can tell you that stairs are a real danger area for us designers. The strength might be fine, but people hate any deflection in stairs. For any unusual stairs, we would analyse them to death before sending them to the shop. In the case of your stairs, I wonder what the torsional twist deflection would be if you walked towards the edge of a tread. Great video by the way, thoroughly enjoyed it and have subscribed.
Johnny Builds, you don't have to regret your choice. I like the invisible one more because of the greater contrast. Like white cars with black accents look great 👌
Johnny Builds is a great channel name. As an engineer I am a big proponent of over engineering and over sizing, especially in something like a staircase. The brackets you made seem to be a bit undersized for the job, there will be a lot of torque on them from the stringer, especially if you are carrying a heavy load while using the stairs, I would imagine that beefier brackets would eliminate the side-to-side tilting that you are getting when walking on the stairs. I really like the lighter treads versus the natural color.
Johnny Builds - an excellent collab, and I love the end results! As much as the 'Pure' color looks good in a general sense, I think the paler steps fit in with the rest of the workshop better. Generally, the Pure would be better, but context is king for any kind of decoration or design work.
Johnny Builds - It's difficult to see how you mounted it, but I think you might've created a stress concentration at the top of the staircase where it joins to the wall stud. The original staircase spread the load over two points that were connected to two more parallel structural studs. Over time, that might weaken your mount structure, but you can reinforce the other side with some truss beams or a structural stud as a precaution (at least this way you don't have to unscrew everything). You've also got torque about the middle screws when you step on the edge of the stairs whereas they were simply supported at the edges beforehand, so try to step in the middle.
Good morning 🌅, That was a great Build Johnny Build , 😂 . Excellent work BlackTail Studio, I love Douglas fur, for Doors and windows, with Oak sills, now retired living in France,
Johnny build: I did think about it, and this was big fun. I do prefer the "Invisible"--it gave the staircase a more refined look. The "pure" would look too 1980s. Great job! Fun to see a project with big wood.
I thought about it. And I agree, the "Pure" finish is MUCH too yellow, no matter what decade you're in. Plus, it blends so well with that gorgeous OG rail.
@@vincedibona4687 Now that you mention Ikea, yes, I can see the link. However, since I prefer to live outside the realm of Ikea, luckily for me, I did not have that initial thought. Besides, if the only 2 choices are those given in this video, I still like the one chosen best. The other is too orangy-yellow for my taste.
I think you used the right "invisible" finish for the steps, it's beautiful. I goes better with the black than the other color you were debating on using (it looked yellow actually).
Absolutely agree. The dark and light aesthetic really brings a modern feel to it. The only thing I would have changed is that the plugs should have been accents with a darker stain or maybe a brass inlay. It would have continued the modern feel. 😊
@@hadensnodgrass3472 i like the brass inlay idea. it would still loook good, but you know IT'S THERE FOR A REASON, unlike a wood plug just trying to blend in
I think I actually prefer the finish you picked. Maybe it's because I see wood like the second one (which is also very pretty) more often so it makes the gentler, closer to natural wood color finish feel more unique. Then again I like the look of white TVs.
I was a stairbuilder in a mill in Logan, Ohio for 11 yrs. For awhile i was the only girl there. We used a router for the stringers. But i really enjoyed watching you guys build this staircase. Brings back memories and i loved working with wood. Thanks for the video. You are a master of your craft! And i like watching Johnny Builds. I watch alot of wood turning shows. Xo
I’m a mechanical engineer and I’m impressed 😂. Was a little worried when I first saw the extent of that cracking, but you seemed to handle that well with the bow ties . Nice work guys!
The bow ties are only what, 1/2" deep. The cracks likely propagate through most of the timber. Cam better throw a few mattresses below the staircase. Just sayin
@@JustSayN2Oalthough it looks like a concern, these are not cracks but normal checking. Checking does not significantly affect the structural properties of the timber. In fact, the bow ties are unnecessary (structurally speaking) although they do look nice. If the stringer was cracked, then it’s a different story. So, the mattress can stay in the bedroom.
@@henrypeisch5289 was in the middle of typing that... the wood has been drying for 3-4 years checking is completely normal and doesn't affect integrity of the beam even though it looks like its unsafe lol
@@noahmarosok8168 Cam does flawless work from what I have seen. Almost neurotically flawless. When he screws up, he owns it with a charming and self-deprecating humility that is hard to bash afterwards. So, I can see how some who watch often probably have been just lying in wait for something to jump all over. Triggered by the checking in the Douglas fir I guess. I suppose it’s understandable. Think about it.
OH man, the high levels of satisfaction in this video lol. Popping out those triangles from the main beam and then also all those little bow ties because that cut was on point. It's truly the little things, eh? Edit: WHELP! Then there was the notches to get the stairs into the main piece of wood and getting all those little pieces out. This is lovely xD Edit 2: That black finish is SICK! That's really cool!
Johnny Builds does great work and was very kind to help you out. The lighter tread finish you chose however was spot on for contrast. It’s a clean look. Always enjoy your content, creative and professional.
Johnny Builds- thanks a ton for sharing this clip! Such a joy to see you having fun together. I think the invisible oil looks absolutely awesome! ...as does the whole staircase. Fantastic.
Johnny Builds and Blacktail are also my two favorite channels to date on UA-cam. This staircase came out bad ass. It inspires me to build some of these in my home going up to my second level. Those stairs are true fire!
Johnny Build i like the invisible much better, such a great contrast with the black - think about it ! tho i will never make any of your projects you make, i did learn quite a few useful things also, your videos are highly entertaining (following you for a year now), love your honesty about everything, infomative about the process and train of thought, and of course about the mistakes, and especially the humor, like you having fun with the "wrong" saws and the way you showed those plugs at end was hilarious - thanks!
A new handrail might be a tasty addition - but I do get those artistic vibes you might be going for having an old one that’s no longer parallel 😉 Love the content as always!
@@KyleKHarberI am 76 with pins in both ankles. I have a rail om both sides of my stair case. Think about it. Plus that staircase needs a rail that is much better.
Protip: Turn the piece of bung wood on its side and run the band saw just short of the depth of the hole drill. All the bungs will separate in one cut. Another protip: Place a layer of painters tape over the bungs before you do the verticle cut to the bungs. They stick to the tape and make a nice 'tray' to pick the bungs from and they (generally) don't drop off. Good stuff and the staircase looks awesome!
Because its one of those "pro tips" that arent really that pro. Just popping them out and flipping it over onto the table creates a pile of plugs you can easily use your hands to grab as you would anything else on your workbench.
Cool story, bro. 3 seconds on the band saw versus sending a flathead into 75 holes, 75 times and picking them all up.[eye roll] There are those who think in the first order and nothing beyond. Like having a nothing sandwich forever.@@hebie666
LOL But he didn't when it was the same principle. Generally, pros are consistent in their craft. However, I do appreciate his honesty and willingness to share that he forgot something, or made a mistake with the chisel AND LEAVES IT IN the final edit. No one else (mostly) does that on other channels.@@thechadwick22
First and foremost, excellent work, Gentleman! I always love and enjoy your humor, Cam. Also, I feel the Vesting Invisible was indeed the way to go. The lighter color against the black beam contrast very well with your shop against those lighting conditions versus the Vesting Pure where it is too dark in my honest opinion might clash. If this was in an open area with a bunch of natural lighting coming in, then the Vesting Pure would have been the best choice. Think about it 😉
Nice build!! If you haven't done so already, I'd try extending out the attachment points at the top and bottom to be as wide as the stair steps. That way it'll spread out the deflection at the ends and hopefully reduce some of the twisting shown when you walk up and down
Johnny Builds with Blacktail studio are the perfect team to create this stairway. If you were ever to make another stairway, I suggest you by a two man saw like the lumberjacks used a century ago. You more than likely could cut that thick wood pretty quick. Do you feel the stairs won't get slippery if they get wet? I would consider creating some kind of non slip backing to put down. I don't believe you would have to cover the whole stair, just the high use part of the stair. Thanks so much for sharing. I never miss an episode.
@@kevinuy399if you know the band Led Zeppelin they got that name because people said they “would go down like a Led Zeppelin”. And we now know that that sure wasn’t the case. Maybe he was saying that people doubted him at first but really is legendary
Johnny builds was an absolute legend for helping you out with this. It turned out great. One think about it opportunity that came to mind was doing a saw kerf along the whole under side of the stringer beam in the center about 3” deep, then PL premium/ bolt a piece of flat bar into the kerf which would keep it from ever failing
I’m from Oklahoma, love that you and Jonny are doing a build together. Wish I could afford you guys I need a side table but retired on social security so I love to watch both your projects on you tube. You two and four eyes are my favorites to watch👍🤩🥳
The darker stain would’ve looked good with the black, but I liked the light on first look. They are crazy amazing stairs to go from your shop to house!! Beautiful!
Johnny Builds was awesome to see in this video! Besides the great videos and things he makes, I love how supportive Cam is for Scott. Like it's just so wholesome! Great job for creating the plans and bettering yourself, we're rooting for you Scott!
Lost my husband recently and still have lots of work to do for my house, found your site and am so amazed! I am binge watching to distract myself and it’s all beautiful!
I'm sitting here thinking this is going in the house, somewhere near the dining table. Something the family will walk up & down every day, another beautiful showpiece. Imagine my laughter (at myself) when I see it's going into the shop - because WHY NOT?! :) Keep 'em coming Cam!
As a structural engineer, I can say that I have built lots of things for myself that I could never put out there professionally. Things that would never make the design codes I have to design for, but I know for my personal use that I will never approach those loads. One of the biggest issues with under designed wood is deflection and permanent creep. All wood will creep, but when something is already flimsy for its purpose, it will creep a lot. That would be my biggest concern for this thing, just from seeing how much it moves under a single man using it. That and those checks being contained with one bowtie per tread just seems too insignificant for me. As a non-repetitive, primary member, those really bugged me. I don't think it will fail, but I would definitely not have a party on it. And as someone else pointed out, keep an eye on those connections especially because of its movement. Things in wood can wiggle themselves out over time when dynamic loadings are applied.
Johnny builds!!! I am no where near as skilled as you to take on a project like this but your personality and sense of humor keeps me coming back every time you post a new video! One of my favorite UA-camrs! A beautiful staircase. How did your wife like it? I enjoy seeing her reactions/hearing her feedback on your projects lol
Perfect blend of figger it out honesty, dueling tools, product recommendations and dried for four years timber slick wit. Color me 40 mins away in pdx ... and subscribed. The pure tone gets my 'next time' vote.
Man, I enjoy your videos more and more nowadays. I think that's primarily because of the fact that you can actually feel you guys having so much fun in the process and genuinly enjoying what you're doing, and each others company. Keep up the good work, or bad work, those are usually more fun :D
Some people might like the 'Pure' finish more, I guess thats subjectiv but in composition with the black finish on the stringer the 'Invisible' one was definitely to 99% the right choice Great work!
I like the finish you went with more than the other one. It’s hard to believe you made something so awesome just for a shop-that’s an incredible staircase!
Johnny Builds and Cam with Blacktail Studios are why I have grown in woodworking. I love their content. Cam I really love the stairs. I do like the invisible coating a little more, however (it would have been time consuming) I think if you made the bow ties the same color as the stairs, that would have really set it off. It would have been a great contrast to the dark background. All and all, another amazing build.
I think both finishes (light and darker) on the stairs look great. The lighter one, not sure what to call these finishes, looks Scandinavian. The darker one has a warmer, more earthy tone, and I might have been my first choice. Both look great! I don't usually sit through these long form shop videos, but yours are always so interesting and I'm amazed how you basically taught yourself I think? Really high end work work, the tables and everything, wish I could afford lol.
Johnny Builds deserves a sub for helping out with this monumentally overbuilt, yet springy, project. Thanks again for a great video. Always excited when I see that you've posted!
the mellow colour of the steps against the hard strong black colour of the base is in perfect equilibrium. Amazing work, interesting as always and real fun to hear all you say!!!
I just watched the "big chisel" part. You mentioned how watching another wood working artist you thought how it would be. I thought about how a master of a particular craft can make what they do look so easy. You are a perfect example of how a master of his craft, all of those gorgeous tables and such, make it look like "i could also do that easy enough" Those paper thin shavings he created took years to master. Just like your creations took years to master. Thank you for bringing us along on this stair building journey, it turned out incredible. Well done sir. Edit to add: The pure works for me. Just think about.
The video he showed was a japanese chisel...know to be razor sharp..different from timber chisel..try to see japanese chisels,u can see that one in the video...thanks
Jonny Builds… awesome teamwork! I thought this was going to go into a high end cabin as the focal point from first to second floor… so much more satisfying to see you’ll use it at the beginning and end of your project days. Sweet. You were in a win-win on finishes, but I agree with Jonny.
I like the lighter finish you chose - I think it does make a better contrast to the black than the pure finish does. The pure/natural was too orange, for my liking. At most, maybe something in the middle, to dull down the orange, but look slightly more natural might be ideal. But, if it's a choice between one or the other, I think the one you chose was the way to go!
I love your channel! Your voice is soothing (this keeps the dog from barking at the TV), your work is interesting and beautiful, and you don't play music (music is often depressing for me). Don't ever change a thing! Your channel is just what I've been looking for.
Johnny build a super awesome staircase together with you! Love it! Even I think, going with natural oil as finish to make the grain pop a bit more, could be nicer, but it looks awesome the way it is !!! Greetings from Germany, watching you since years and its really nice to see your progress dude. You're getting more professional and your projects getting more complicated and more interessting every day! Cudos
Johnny Builds. This is a really nice project. I love seeing the collaborations between UA-cam woodworkers also. Still hoping one day for a Blacktail/Bourbon Moth build. The styles and senses of humor are really different and that teaming up would either be incredible or horrifying. I'm hoping for the former but we'll never know until it happens.
Johnny builds another great project!!!! I also liked the darker finish with the black beam but the amount of effort and quality in all your builds is incredible!!!! Keep up the good work and maybe it will inspire someone in todays times of cutting corners to do quality work!!!!
I built a timber staircase like this in my boat about 6 years ago. It’s been awesome. It took a couple tries and a lot of head scratching without any computer designs, but I’ve loved it! Good job!
Jonny Builds!!!! Omg this thrilled me soooo much! I've been hoping the two of you would team up on a project!!! Definitely didn't disappoint. That staircase is gorgeous! Honestly, I don't think I have a preference between the pure and invisible finish.
Its such a gift to let people have the exact same idea. Especially when they have it previous to you and when you confirm it, its just special....you go Scott.
Johnny builds As to the holes in the treads, my experience from another artform (photography), was that if you could not perfectly match something, that you should deliberately contrast it. That makes it a design element instead of a mistake. In the case of your treads, that could have meant using blackened dowels (to match the beam color). Possibly even drilling out the holes to use larger plugs. Again, turning it into a design element. And FYI, I vote for the tread color you chose over the "natural oil".
Hey Cam, Nice camera work when showing how well you did with the plugs! If the bounce gets worse you can always, put some stringers either side🥴 Or there is alot options out there. I like the look of the lighter wood👍
Johnny builds...The invisible finish is definitely the best choice. I'm an ex-missile engineer, and I'm impressed with how you and Johnny built these stairs.
I'm a retired structural engineering designer, and this project definitely impressed me. Stairs are always challenging - but are still simply triangles and offsets, which, when properly executed, result in perfectly constructed transitions between floors. Beautifully executed here. I LOVE STAIRS!
Being a joiner/carpenter myself, I obviously love being a woodworm and seeing others doing their projects. I sometimes colorize wood, but, I'm the guy who likes the original woodcolorings. Therefore I'm in the camp of those who said you should've simply used no color at all. Just a varnish for staircases and end of story. But, it's your project, and you decide what gets used. Other than that, you did a very good job. Staircases are time-consuming projects and not made on a Saturday afternoon in between a midday nap and evening dinner. Take a bow, Sir Blacktail 🤗
I have a good friend that helps me on projects and we always make things extra beefy/strong just to get the look like this is never going anywhere. I get those same vibes from your build. Love it. I am a little surprised you didn't use any filler on those checks in the main beam, especially considering the finish you applied. I think I would have applied some sawdust and glue to close those gaps.
I love your staircase and pretty much any videos you post. I think for stability sake the only change I would make would be to split your stair stringer to share the load from side to side. Even splitting the beam in half would help get rid of side to side wobble. Which I think is where the springy feeling you are noticing and not sagging of the wood beam. The thiccness, yes with two c's, of the treads and that split beam would support an elephant. Not that you frequently keep pachyderms in your upstairs or anything.
Johnny Builds - I had to build a staircase for my home and only decided how to do it after everything else in the house was already finished. I'm an amateur woodworker, so it was freaking hard to do it and I actually ended up making a 2.0 and 2.5 version afterwards because the first version was not good enough. All that being said, I was impressed by this build. You definitely mastered it and made it look awesome! Also, I noticed that other than bouncing the steps were tilting sideways a little bit as you were stepping on them or applying the finish (27:05). Did you come up with a solution or it didn't bother you at all?
Johnny Builds.....loved watching the video, and your honesty (in certain area!) I also employ the "Think about it!" logic often when building.....hopefully, well thought out projects stand up to the test of time.....Nice job, and loved the finished product....!
The invisible uv oil is better than the natural. Because it matches the black oil better. Black and a white are in the gray scale of colour. The natural oil brings out yellows and orange. The black and white pigments will allow the stairs to fit in with more variety of other design pieces in a space. If you used natural you would be introducing colours that will need to match other timber objects in the space. Or you could have clashing of too many slightly different timber colour tones. Think about it! Great work on the stairs its a really beautiful result.
I was a stairbuilder for over 20 years. I stopped when I came into the office to take over the business from the owner. Just vetting myself a little, there. 😊
For never building a stair, this was quite well done! There are a few problems, a couple of which are fairly serious, but really it’s pretty amazing that it turned out as well as it did. Stairbuilding is one of the most difficult trades to learn and excel at, so you should be proud! The changes I am suggesting are to safety and structural integrity, and’s aren’t facile nitpicking. The changes I believe are necessary are as follows:
1. Attach the closed side of the treads to the studs in the wall. This is very important since you went with an open design with no risers. You aren’t just walking up that stair, you are also storing material up there that you probably will often be carrying up the stair, adding weight and stress to the treads and single stringer. So, this is an important, necessary addition. This is done fairly easy (and could still be done easily retrofitting).
This is done by using a piece of 1/4” angle iron (or channeled) metal stock with a 90 degree bend at the closed end of the tread. The stock should be 4-5 inches wide and inlaid into the tread with a dado cut (using your table saw or router, whatever) lengthwise about 3” from the nose of the tread and an additional, deeper dado for the angle portion of the metal stock. The stock should have a 90 degree bend at the closed end and be 6” in length to attach to the framing, or added blocking in the wall. You can dado the tread and hide the metal support stock by having it countersunk by a 1/4” or 1/2” and then covering it with a 1/4” or 1/2” piece of the tread material inlaid.
Then, on the closed end, you can cut out the drywall and attach the 90 degree end to the stud (or blocking you attach to the framing). Most of the time we used C channeled metal stock for additional support instead of angle iron. Once you attach it to the tread and the blocking in the wall, the stair will fex very little. A little bit of flexing on a circular stair is okay, but not for a open, straight stair of your design, which is a sign of structural issues. The treads will eventually pull out from the stringer, or the single stringer will continue to torsion until the structural integrity of the stringer is compromised beyond safe usage.
A jerry-rigged solution that might suffice would be to use angle iron stock on the closed side, attached to the end of the tread and then secured to a stud or blocking you add in the wall. There are several ways you could do it, even mortising the stock into the closed end of the tread and attaching it to a stud or blocking. You need to do something, though, because you can do it now and it will be fairly simple, but if you wait until it starts to fail, your options disappear quickly.
2. The second issue is the attachment to the header (joist) under the landing of the 2nd floor. You have a ton of stress concentrated on a very small area. This will eventually sag the header and landing, and tear out or destroy the header, and that will be a difficult repair.
Your stair is going to flex and tear out or compromise at that header attachment point pretty quickly ( I’m betting less than 5-10 years). You can accomplish this by adding another layer of 2x material behind the header (sandwiched) and then attach 1/4” angle iron to each side of your stringer, flush with the header, and then use all-thread through the header and another joist behind it to attack the angle iron (and stringer) to the header. You thread the all-thread through holes in the header and joist behind it, adding washers and nuts as you bring it into the header and joist. Then, tighten the nuts to both sides of the header and (at least) one joist behind it, and the angle iron. I would then add another piece of 2x material to the face of the header on each side of your stringer. This hides the angle iron and adds additional support to the sides of the stringer at the attachment point to the header.
These additions are important and not difficult to accomplish. If you don’t do these, I think it will fail within 5-10 years, or it will start flexing so much as to be unsafe to ascend.
I know it sucks when so-called “experts” chime in and nitpick everything you do. I like your channel and especially the spirit and can-do attitude you have. I learned a lot in my trade just by doing it. I built a lot of tools and jigs that old stairbuilders told me wouldn’t work or weren’t necessary, that then later they copied them or asked me to build one for them. So, I get the frustration you have with people like that. Sometimes, though, the “experts” are right, and this is especially poignant when safety is involved. I’m not talking into my hat, here, the changes I suggest (and there are other ways to accomplish what I suggested) are important. Don’t take my word for it, ask a local stairbuilder to give it a look-see and hear what he has to say.
This was a really great build for never building a stair. Stairbuilding has a vicious learning curve, one that almost broke me in my first year in the trade. So, you should be proud of what you did. There are a couple of safety issues that need to be addressed, but overall you did a really great job! Keep up the good work and thanks for showing the world that hard work and a commitment to quality can make dreams come true!
Straight up great comment from start to finish on addressing the “ elephant in the staircase”. Having done many like this with the stringer being fabricated steel…..your 100% on point.😊
27:06 yeah. I thought the same, then seeing the stairs shift a bit side to side as he wipes it down here made me think he needs it mounted to the studs. And the bouncing at the end lmaooo
I like that this is a single tree. Maybe some structural reinforcement of the header board would be good. Everything has some deflection. Id be very happy with these stairs with a little flex
EXCELLENT advice. Worth reading and internalizing.
I'd screw an 8 to 10mm piece of spring steel plate at full length to the back of the centre beam to give a bit more bounce in your step.. think about it. 😁
Johnny Build- I couldn’t help but notice, after you bolted the beam in place you didn’t say “that’s not going anywhere”. This is really the only safe measure to insure it doesn’t go anywhere! 😃
Ya think?
@@queenbee3647 think about it
That's why the staircase has a bit of movement instead of being totally stiff like it should be
"That ain't goin' nowhere" will also suffice.
It's hilarious how unskilled all of you are in this thread. Every decent craftsman understands that giving your work a slap before saying "that ain't goin nowhere!" is what triggers the spell.
that was classic when you blurred everything out and then said look at how beautiful all the plugs came out.haha hehe awesome video
Think about it!
🤣😂
Jonny Builds -'Think about it' is my new favourite sentence 😂😅
As a carpenter who has built dozens of staircases and done a fair amount of timber framing, you've taken on the two Everests of most residential carpenters' existence! Other than Instrument, and Furniture making, these are the things that most House Carpenters will consider the pinnacle of finish carpentry. Neither of these types of projects are easy, and mistakes are extremely expensive. You guys did an amazing job on this one, especially for first timers!!
As a joiner I second this motion, although just to be awkward for assembly I would change the screws plan, to a couple of coach bolts from the back of the stringer
@morourke2561 what a cool idea.
@@SandroMoiron
Glad you like it, a dovetail on the stringer would be even better, with a stopped socket on the bottom of the threads 😉 but now we're probably getting carried away.
@@morourke2561dovetail stringers would have made it completely next level, buuuut it also would've doubled the timeline lol
@@steves835
💯 Quality takes time, this I can't deny, maybe not double though, much of it could be achieved with a router on the stringer cuts and finished with a combination of tracksaw and chisel work, then completely achievable with a router ran in a simple jig for each thread.
Johnny Builds and Blacktail are my two favorite woodworking channels. You're both entertaining and talented.
100% ABSOLUTELY AGREE
man! ......think'bout it!?
A few years ago I repented to God then begged for help, "I was until then an Atheist."
I then had a dream of Jesus coming before God and he spoke of the Tabernacle in perfect context, "A word I didn't know existed.", and what I felt from Jesus when I held him was unlike anything I've ever felt before - A lifetime of Love every second - It brought me to sobbing and it changed my life, forever.
I've had Many experiences since, "Several witnessed", one was seeing a bright orb of light pass across my face in the dark, hours before a major surgery the second I gave up in my heart.
Know that God and Jesus ARE real and that they Love us deeply. Let go of your hatred and Imagine yourself holding the people who've hurt you. Tell them you Love them.
Always have hope, I believe that prayer, following God's laws & Love is the answer, and through that, Truly becoming humble, merciful, welcoming, giving, gentle, respectful, compassionate, patient, kind and forgiving, To All.
@@narsakucanada154 w mans
Seems like an interesting place to post that sentiment
I think black plugs matching the stringer would have been a nice contrast, and might also serve as a low key visual aid, kind of like how different colored baseboards help separate walls from floors in your brain.
wait yeah, I like that. Almost industrial vibes
Great idea!
If there's something that might not look nice, make it a purposeful feature 👍🏾 woodworking 101
Probably too late now but I support this idea.
There is something to be said for the idea of, "If you can't hide it, don't try to; make it a feature."
JohnnyBuild And you made tables for a Make-a-Wish charity! That's so awesome. My wife was a wish manager (pretty much a frickin Genie) there for years. One of the best organizations that does some of the most beautiful charity work. And I can speak from first hand knowledge just some of the best humans in the world work there.
Johnny Builds. The last "think about it" was awesome! Loved the ASMR of chiseling the plugs and appreciated the close ups so we could admire their beauty! 😄 Can't wait to see what kind of handrail you add - so many possibilities!
He'll probably install the "inviso" hand rail. They're known as the safety standard, think about it.
bouncing staircases are not meant to have any handrails. think about it.
Impressed structural engineer here. It's probably stronger than it needs to be for concentric loading (walking up/down the middle of the stairs) but you'll be glad you used that massive piece of DF for torsional stiffness whenever you step out near the edges of the treads. I usually do these out of tube steel for that reason. Think about it.
I might have beefed up the top and bottom connections though so keep an eye on it in case they loosen up over time, especially the bottom. But hey, no stamp no problem.
Love your work man! From a fellow Cam.
From another structural engineer, I had the same comment.....timber pieces are 'overkill', connections are suspect.......I've done one with a tube steel stringer and broke steel sheet treads.
Mechanical engineer here. Only comment I had was the same… should have beefed up those connecting plates. But at the end of the day… think about it
You probably would use tube steel for a diving board. We don't want to take a chance with flexing now, do we. How about scaffold planking ? 6" WF ?
When a client pays thousands of dollars for the design of their custom stairs they do not want them to deflect noticeably when someone walks on them.
That said, a tube steel diving board sounds pretty cool.
Sister the joist and add solid bridging to the next one over. Pull the joist hanger, sister the headers both ends. Install the proper joist hangers (double or triple) depending on the headers. Next one you do, extend the solid center notched stringer at top rise (this tread notch will be larger) so pressure blocks can be installed at the header - add this pressure block thickness to the overall stringer length. Pressure blocks will eliminate twist where the top of your stringer meets the header.
Cam, awesome staircase, looks beautiful.
I'll preface this with "I'm not a structural engineer" but I think you should consider beefing up the header joist thing. Your old stair singers were mounted to the edges of the header therefore the header wasn't doing much other than being a riser. Your new stairs are mounted in the middle. Meaning that single joist is now supporting the full load.
Think about it!
Absolutely correct. That
header should be triple!
@@jonerwood2314 you could probably get around having to do that by transferring some of the load to the floor using a beam from the floor to the underneath of the 5th or 6th step, make it fancy and make feature out of it.
Watching this thing flex under his weight while he was applying the m3 nano at the end gave me the willies. Top is held in by 2 bolts and 2 wood screws, and bottom is held to the concrete with two lags with an uneven coating under it letting it just rock back and forth. Both attachments need to be beefed up a ton, and the joist needs to either be beefed up, or a column added under the top stair to take the load off of it.
Also not a structural engineer, but I've built a few staircases in my time.
EDIT: I just saw the last little bit of the video. That joist is clearly flexing on every step. If it doesn't get beefed up it will eventually break and drop back; but I'm still not a structural engineer so I don't know how long that'll last without a fix.
...the full load, plus a rotational / torque component that will put an alternating full weight load on single bolt at a time. Sorta.
Johnny build! I just want to tell you that you are the most incredibly entertaining wood worker on UA-cam! Thank you for all the truly laugh out loud moments.
I have built quite a few staircases over the years using concrete in situ, steel, and wood in various combinations. Even the really bulky I-Strings have a bit of give and flex, particularly on hot days.The only ones that don't have any flex are the ones attached to the walls around it via a wall string That goes for overhang concrete stairs aswell. The weakest point on stairs, obviously, normally, is where the riser and tread meet.
Watching the video I was wondering whether you were going to inlay any steel under the string.
Since this is your own staircase; If at any point the flex and give becomes too much, just add a metal plate, cut exactly like the string shape on a side view, to the wall side out of sight. Kind of laminating steel to wood. This is the same way old oak/cedar beams are strengthened.
In my unprofessional opinion, you did a fantastic job.
My only real concern is whether the floor joist at the top can handle the weight of the stairs. Having run into a problem on one that I did, I added more timber between 3 joists so that the staircase does not bend the joist where the string is fixed to. I don't really know what the structure looks like there and watched this video on my small phone screen.
Exactly what I was thinking as I was watching -" inlay a steel backbone". When you are walking on it it will flex (you won't feel it at that thickness but it's doing it). The stress points are like a zipper pattern in the string focussed on the inside of each of the 90 deg cuts. Each of those points will be greater or lesser than the one next to it radiating out from the center of the string to both ends in a hour glass pattern. When your body weight gets more or less to the center as you walk it will be the time of greatest stress which will be focused on the upper and lower most 90 degree inside cuts. Which gain a little strength back depending on how you attach at each end (so the ones next ot those becime the next weakest points.). If you attach a backbone this can also be tied to the ground and upper joist(like a suspension bridge to give a little additional support)
@@carpenter1138 so you mean the weakest point is at the thinnest point of the stringer and the middle of the span?
I think this is the most in-depth UA-cam comment I've ever read.... Kudos
Get an engineer to check it out
Try not to hire one whose bridges or dams have already failed 😂
Love Blacktail Studios and Johnny Builds...great to see you guys working together.
I built stairs in Canada for 20 years. Some easy many very difficult. You brought back a lot of great memories. Love your content, and the dialogue. Your channel is great!
I cannot properly explain how much I love the combination of honest reactions, friendly banter, snarky jokes, and real life applicable skills and advice. Everything from camera man/editor interactions to guests on the channel, its incredibly wholesome and enjoyable to watch. Fucking love your guy's work.
Johnny Builds is the man! Always there to add some extra hands. Even though he won't be collecting stacks of bands (free work), the work he does is never bland.
Yes Johnny was right!!!!!!!
Refinish those steps, and always listen to Johnny Builds.
John Builds, as an engineer it looks OK. I think the through bolts will hold the top OK, and if the plate is well attached to the wood then that is OK. The board you used looks like the size of 2-2x12's so that would be acceptable. The good thing to know is that if it fails it should crack and makes lots of noise before it does break so you will have a warning. Great to hear that the two tables sold for so very much.
Seconded by a another engineer.
I'd be more curious about the numbers on the individual treads, if someone were to stand on the edge thats a lot of leverage on deck screws, the rabbit joint wasn't that snug to provide much support...
John builds: Curious what the rise and run came out to be. 7” tall and 11” tread is usually the standard. Plus I wonder if the stringer he attracted to is blocked to it’s a joining rafter. Adding some blocks between the two could help take the twist/bounce out of it. Just a thought, and personally nothing can be over engineered when it comes to your shop. Having tags on every screw, now that is over kill. Also I personally like the contrast of the two colors.
@@richardconing7615 Big pieces of lumber are fine in torsion, the span isn't that long, and the threads themselves are clearly solid AF. I am more concerned, as everyone else is mentioning, that the connections top and bottom could use some beefing up.
Johnny Builds was a great addition to this video. You were funnier than usual, and that is one of the things I love about your videos-snarky humor. I also love fast motion on the cutting, sawing, chiseling, tapping, and so forth-loved it! The stairs are very cool 😎 thank you for recording the build , so we can all enjoy it!
I will second the "funnier than usual" assessment. Think about it!
Johnny Builds
The only thing I could think of at the end when Scott asked "is it supposed to bounce" was "no, no it is not" .
I always find your videos informative and entertaining, and like how you explain your thought processes. Thank you for making more.
Johnny Builds was right, pure was the move. Glad to say the staircase still came out great. Good work on the plugs and definitely over engineered!
Johnny Builds; Hey Cam, love the content, love this build, and I think you made the right choice on the finish. As an engineer, the only comment I would make technically would be to consider using slots on your floor tie plate. That really is just a safeguard against the cement floor and the stringer moving at different rates seasonally or as the timber cures. It would still be constrained in 2 degrees of freedom vertically and side to side you would just have slots going forward along the axis of the stairs. I might be a little paranoid. Just think about it.
i think another thing to note would be to use, chemset epoxy bolts. we use them alot in in aus for column baseplates etc
@@reilytong3954 Yes; something like that anchored into the floor, a Keensert or the masonry equivalent would be great.
at 26:09 you can slow it down a bit and see it move as he walks, better than the end I think. how big a deal is it? It freaks me out a little, as a non-engineer
@@zoox101 Like I said, I might just be paranoid. Or a perfectionist. The stringer is so stout and if we assume the concrete is properly poured and cured... Then honestly the weak link might be the fastener... Which would probably shear off before the stringer would crack. I'm reality the worst case scenario is probably just things bend up a bit during some seasons... Like a door getting stuck a bit when it's humid outside. Probably nothing to worry about.
Alternate Title: "Johnny Bills and Johnny Sins build a staircase"
Like that😂
69 likes right now
What are you doing, *step*bro?
I didn't know my dentist was woodworker too
🍆
Johnny builds. This staircase takes me back to my childhood. My neighbor and his brother built 4 homes together. The one I remember most had a floating staircase like this, only difference being the treads were significantly thinner. Always mesmerized me in how they stayed afloat. They were slick as snot and as kids we always crashed down them with our sock feet. He didn’t have nano finish but it was probably Turtle Wax back in the 80’s!
Johnny Builds... Wow! just watching Every Step from drying the beam to the final coat was exhausting!!
I prefer the finish you put on, the one JB suggested looks too much like my new Cedar fence.
Sending this go my 6'-10" Civil/Mechanical Engineer son, he'll love it!
So creative and forever a conversation piece 😊
Your production values just keep improving. I build solid body electric guitars but enjoy all kinds of "maker" videos. You're probably my favorite of the woodworker vlogs. Thanks for your hard work and here's to chasing excellence in what we do!
Give Shoyan Japanese Carpenter a follow 👍
Johnny builds......love it. It's too bad the stairs aren't where more people will see them daily but I guess us woodworking fans will see them in future videos. Nice job!!
Cool project. As far as the plugs are concerned, I would've seriously considered a contrasting color. A lesson learned from a designer that I worked with, he said if you can't make it perfect, make it intentionally imperfect. There's a 'design term' for this but I don't know what it is. Love ALL of your videos. Keep them coming.
Maybe that design term is "wabi sabi"? "Wabi-sabi nurtures all that is authentic by acknowledging three simple realities: nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect." Richard Powell
I believe you're talking about Wabi Sabi. Also I agree, a darker color would've looked great
Johnny build. Those plugs all look good to me. "Think about it." I love the staircase and your creativity in designing and enlisting the help you had to do the job.
I think I prefer the invisible finish for this project.
I typically prefer darker finishes, but the pure coat didn't have a strong enough contrast against the black for my tastes
That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw the side by side. The invisible is gorgeous!
"think about it"
I think the invisible finish on the beam and then the darker finish on the stairs would've been nice, or vice versa... I guess what I'm saying is I'm not the biggest fan of the black
Of the two choices you show, the invisible finish is far, far better looking than the other (yellow/orange tint). Love, love, love your channel, MOSTLY because of your amazing attitude with everything you do. After watching, I want to meet you and become a friend. Positive people make my day, no matter how we came in contact. You are great.
The Shelter Institute and other timber framers typically use green timbers. That's why the chisel work looks so nice because the wood is much softer and less brittle being wet still. Keep up the great work.
That's true. You can improve your ability to pare dry wood with a chisel or slick if you dab a little bit of linseed oil and turpentine blend on it a few minutes before you start.
@williamboquist4090 that's sounds like the tip of the day
As a structural engineer with 35 years experience, I can tell you that stairs are a real danger area for us designers. The strength might be fine, but people hate any deflection in stairs. For any unusual stairs, we would analyse them to death before sending them to the shop. In the case of your stairs, I wonder what the torsional twist deflection would be if you walked towards the edge of a tread. Great video by the way, thoroughly enjoyed it and have subscribed.
Johnny Builds, you don't have to regret your choice.
I like the invisible one more because of the greater contrast. Like white cars with black accents look great 👌
Johnny Builds is a great channel name. As an engineer I am a big proponent of over engineering and over sizing, especially in something like a staircase. The brackets you made seem to be a bit undersized for the job, there will be a lot of torque on them from the stringer, especially if you are carrying a heavy load while using the stairs, I would imagine that beefier brackets would eliminate the side-to-side tilting that you are getting when walking on the stairs. I really like the lighter treads versus the natural color.
Johnny Builds - an excellent collab, and I love the end results! As much as the 'Pure' color looks good in a general sense, I think the paler steps fit in with the rest of the workshop better. Generally, the Pure would be better, but context is king for any kind of decoration or design work.
Johnny Builds - It's difficult to see how you mounted it, but I think you might've created a stress concentration at the top of the staircase where it joins to the wall stud. The original staircase spread the load over two points that were connected to two more parallel structural studs. Over time, that might weaken your mount structure, but you can reinforce the other side with some truss beams or a structural stud as a precaution (at least this way you don't have to unscrew everything). You've also got torque about the middle screws when you step on the edge of the stairs whereas they were simply supported at the edges beforehand, so try to step in the middle.
He needed steel spines on everything. Would have been fairly easy to inlay too.
Think about it
Good morning 🌅, That was a great Build Johnny Build , 😂 . Excellent work BlackTail Studio, I love Douglas fur, for Doors and windows, with Oak sills, now retired living in France,
Johnny build: I did think about it, and this was big fun. I do prefer the "Invisible"--it gave the staircase a more refined look. The "pure" would look too 1980s. Great job! Fun to see a project with big wood.
think about it
I thought about it.
And I agree, the "Pure" finish is MUCH too yellow, no matter what decade you're in.
Plus, it blends so well with that gorgeous OG rail.
The “invisible” finish is too Ikea. Think about it.
@@vincedibona4687
Now that you mention Ikea, yes, I can see the link.
However, since I prefer to live outside the realm of Ikea, luckily for me,
I did not have that initial thought.
Besides, if the only 2 choices are those given in this video, I still like the one chosen best.
The other is too orangy-yellow for my taste.
I think you used the right "invisible" finish for the steps, it's beautiful. I goes better with the black than the other color you were debating on using (it looked yellow actually).
Absolutely agree. The dark and light aesthetic really brings a modern feel to it. The only thing I would have changed is that the plugs should have been accents with a darker stain or maybe a brass inlay. It would have continued the modern feel. 😊
Think About it 🤔
Agree. It felt fresh! And a little 1980s 😁
@@hadensnodgrass3472 i like the brass inlay idea. it would still loook good, but you know IT'S THERE FOR A REASON, unlike a wood plug just trying to blend in
I think I actually prefer the finish you picked. Maybe it's because I see wood like the second one (which is also very pretty) more often so it makes the gentler, closer to natural wood color finish feel more unique. Then again I like the look of white TVs.
White TVs? Sorry but that's a yikes. I kid, but seriously...
@@iamaduckquack I blame Sims 3 giving me the option.
Very entertaining. All three of you guys had fun with this one, and the video is just so much fun to watch. Thanks guys.
Absolutely love the invis finish. Right choice!
The light wood tone just pairs so nicely with the black.
I agree. The white on black is a nice contrast.
agree as well.. for the shop. It's less distracting visually.
Had this been in a home... depends on other furnitures around..
I was a stairbuilder in a mill in Logan, Ohio for 11 yrs. For awhile i was the only girl there. We used a router for the stringers. But i really enjoyed watching you guys build this staircase. Brings back memories and i loved working with wood. Thanks for the video. You are a master of your craft! And i like watching Johnny Builds. I watch alot of wood turning shows. Xo
Johnny Bills was a great addition to your video. Nice to see you getting some help with a project. The stairs look great!😊
I’m a mechanical engineer and I’m impressed 😂. Was a little worried when I first saw the extent of that cracking, but you seemed to handle that well with the bow ties . Nice work guys!
The bow ties are only what, 1/2" deep. The cracks likely propagate through most of the timber. Cam better throw a few mattresses below the staircase. Just sayin
@@JustSayN2Oalthough it looks like a concern, these are not cracks but normal checking. Checking does not significantly affect the structural properties of the timber. In fact, the bow ties are unnecessary (structurally speaking) although they do look nice. If the stringer was cracked, then it’s a different story. So, the mattress can stay in the bedroom.
@@henrypeisch5289 was in the middle of typing that... the wood has been drying for 3-4 years checking is completely normal and doesn't affect integrity of the beam even though it looks like its unsafe lol
@@noahmarosok8168 Cam does flawless work from what I have seen. Almost neurotically flawless. When he screws up, he owns it with a charming and self-deprecating humility that is hard to bash afterwards. So, I can see how some who watch often probably have been just lying in wait for something to jump all over. Triggered by the checking in the Douglas fir I guess. I suppose it’s understandable. Think about it.
OH man, the high levels of satisfaction in this video lol. Popping out those triangles from the main beam and then also all those little bow ties because that cut was on point. It's truly the little things, eh?
Edit:
WHELP! Then there was the notches to get the stairs into the main piece of wood and getting all those little pieces out. This is lovely xD
Edit 2:
That black finish is SICK! That's really cool!
😂 glad it worked for ya!
@@BlacktailStudio Watching UA-cam while home sick is the best. All of the unhinged comments!! Cheers, friend, thanks for sharing with us
Johnny Builds does great work and was very kind to help you out. The lighter tread finish you chose however was spot on for contrast. It’s a clean look. Always enjoy your content, creative and professional.
Johnny Builds- thanks a ton for sharing this clip! Such a joy to see you having fun together. I think the invisible oil looks absolutely awesome! ...as does the whole staircase. Fantastic.
Definitely think you picked the right finish for the treads! The staircase looks really nice!
Johnny Builds and Blacktail are also my two favorite channels to date on UA-cam. This staircase came out bad ass. It inspires me to build some of these in my home going up to my second level. Those stairs are true fire!
Johnny Build
i like the invisible much better, such a great contrast with the black - think about it !
tho i will never make any of your projects you make, i did learn quite a few useful things
also, your videos are highly entertaining (following you for a year now), love your honesty about everything, infomative about the process and train of thought, and of course about the mistakes, and especially the humor, like you having fun with the "wrong" saws and the way you showed those plugs at end was hilarious - thanks!
A new handrail might be a tasty addition - but I do get those artistic vibes you might be going for having an old one that’s no longer parallel 😉
Love the content as always!
Studies show that handrails make staircases less safe - Think about it.
You don't need a handrail if you still have feet. Think about it.
@@KyleKHarberI am 76 with pins in both ankles. I have a rail om both sides of my stair case. Think about it. Plus that staircase needs a rail that is much better.
You don't need feet if you still have a handrail. Think about it.
Protip: Turn the piece of bung wood on its side and run the band saw just short of the depth of the hole drill. All the bungs will separate in one cut. Another protip: Place a layer of painters tape over the bungs before you do the verticle cut to the bungs. They stick to the tape and make a nice 'tray' to pick the bungs from and they (generally) don't drop off. Good stuff and the staircase looks awesome!
Johnny builds would have known to do that already! That's literally how he cut out the bowties lol
He did that for the bow-ties..wonder why not the plugs..
Painter tape great idea..
Because its one of those "pro tips" that arent really that pro. Just popping them out and flipping it over onto the table creates a pile of plugs you can easily use your hands to grab as you would anything else on your workbench.
Cool story, bro. 3 seconds on the band saw versus sending a flathead into 75 holes, 75 times and picking them all up.[eye roll] There are those who think in the first order and nothing beyond. Like having a nothing sandwich forever.@@hebie666
LOL But he didn't when it was the same principle. Generally, pros are consistent in their craft. However, I do appreciate his honesty and willingness to share that he forgot something, or made a mistake with the chisel AND LEAVES IT IN the final edit. No one else (mostly) does that on other channels.@@thechadwick22
First and foremost, excellent work, Gentleman! I always love and enjoy your humor, Cam. Also, I feel the Vesting Invisible was indeed the way to go. The lighter color against the black beam contrast very well with your shop against those lighting conditions versus the Vesting Pure where it is too dark in my honest opinion might clash. If this was in an open area with a bunch of natural lighting coming in, then the Vesting Pure would have been the best choice. Think about it 😉
Nice build!! If you haven't done so already, I'd try extending out the attachment points at the top and bottom to be as wide as the stair steps. That way it'll spread out the deflection at the ends and hopefully reduce some of the twisting shown when you walk up and down
Johnny Builds with Blacktail studio are the perfect team to create this stairway. If you were ever to make another stairway, I suggest you by a two man saw like the lumberjacks used a century ago. You more than likely could cut that thick wood pretty quick. Do you feel the stairs won't get slippery if they get wet? I would consider creating some kind of non slip backing to put down. I don't believe you would have to cover the whole stair, just the high use part of the stair. Thanks so much for sharing. I never miss an episode.
You're my favourite woodworker on youtube, you're the zeppelin of woodworking
😢 I’m so happy
@@BlacktailStudio You don't think he meant like the Hindenburg?
@@kevinuy399Think about it.
@@kevinuy399if you know the band Led Zeppelin they got that name because people said they “would go down like a Led Zeppelin”. And we now know that that sure wasn’t the case. Maybe he was saying that people doubted him at first but really is legendary
You mean he steals other people’s ideas?
Johnny builds was an absolute legend for helping you out with this. It turned out great. One think about it opportunity that came to mind was doing a saw kerf along the whole under side of the stringer beam in the center about 3” deep, then PL premium/ bolt a piece of flat bar into the kerf which would keep it from ever failing
I’m from Oklahoma, love that you and Jonny are doing a build together. Wish I could afford you guys I need a side table but retired on social security so I love to watch both your projects on you tube. You two and four eyes are my favorites to watch👍🤩🥳
The darker stain would’ve looked good with the black, but I liked the light on first look. They are crazy amazing stairs to go from your shop to house!! Beautiful!
Johnny Builds was awesome to see in this video! Besides the great videos and things he makes, I love how supportive Cam is for Scott. Like it's just so wholesome! Great job for creating the plans and bettering yourself, we're rooting for you Scott!
Lost my husband recently and still have lots of work to do for my house, found your site and am so amazed! I am binge watching to distract myself and it’s all beautiful!
Johnny Bills -- the invisible oil finish is a good choice. The other stain would eventually go out of style, but raw wood is always beautiful.
I'm sitting here thinking this is going in the house, somewhere near the dining table. Something the family will walk up & down every day, another beautiful showpiece. Imagine my laughter (at myself) when I see it's going into the shop - because WHY NOT?! :) Keep 'em coming Cam!
Not an engineer yet but an engineering student, I’m impressed by every project you do Cam, not just this one
misread this as "just not this one"😭
@@arminowo3885 haha same, didn't even notice before your comment
Check back in after you graduate
lmfaoo@@arminowo3885
As a structural engineer, I can say that I have built lots of things for myself that I could never put out there professionally. Things that would never make the design codes I have to design for, but I know for my personal use that I will never approach those loads. One of the biggest issues with under designed wood is deflection and permanent creep. All wood will creep, but when something is already flimsy for its purpose, it will creep a lot. That would be my biggest concern for this thing, just from seeing how much it moves under a single man using it. That and those checks being contained with one bowtie per tread just seems too insignificant for me. As a non-repetitive, primary member, those really bugged me. I don't think it will fail, but I would definitely not have a party on it. And as someone else pointed out, keep an eye on those connections especially because of its movement. Things in wood can wiggle themselves out over time when dynamic loadings are applied.
Johnny builds!!! I am no where near as skilled as you to take on a project like this but your personality and sense of humor keeps me coming back every time you post a new video! One of my favorite UA-camrs! A beautiful staircase. How did your wife like it? I enjoy seeing her reactions/hearing her feedback on your projects lol
Perfect blend of figger it out honesty, dueling tools, product recommendations and dried for four years timber slick wit. Color me 40 mins away in pdx ... and subscribed. The pure tone gets my 'next time' vote.
The darker stain looked much better. But you are an INCREDIBLE craftsman! Love this channel. ❤
Man, I enjoy your videos more and more nowadays. I think that's primarily because of the fact that you can actually feel you guys having so much fun in the process and genuinly enjoying what you're doing, and each others company. Keep up the good work, or bad work, those are usually more fun :D
In the end this looks really great. I would be more freaked out about the wobbling than about the holes. Thanks for sharing!
A Jonny Builds et vous bravo encore un ouvrage simplement magnifique.
Some people might like the 'Pure' finish more, I guess thats subjectiv but in composition with the black finish on the stringer the 'Invisible' one was definitely to 99% the right choice
Great work!
I like the finish you went with more than the other one. It’s hard to believe you made something so awesome just for a shop-that’s an incredible staircase!
Johnny Builds and Cam with Blacktail Studios are why I have grown in woodworking. I love their content. Cam I really love the stairs. I do like the invisible coating a little more, however (it would have been time consuming) I think if you made the bow ties the same color as the stairs, that would have really set it off. It would have been a great contrast to the dark background. All and all, another amazing build.
😊😊 hyy sir
Johnny was right about the step color. This was an awesome watch tho!! Looks great!!!
I think both finishes (light and darker) on the stairs look great. The lighter one, not sure what to call these finishes, looks Scandinavian. The darker one has a warmer, more earthy tone, and I might have been my first choice. Both look great! I don't usually sit through these long form shop videos, but yours are always so interesting and I'm amazed how you basically taught yourself I think? Really high end work work, the tables and everything, wish I could afford lol.
Johnny Builds deserves a sub for helping out with this monumentally overbuilt, yet springy, project. Thanks again for a great video. Always excited when I see that you've posted!
Gotta love "monumentally overbuilt, yet springy."
It's actually not overbuilt for the material. If the stringer were steel it could be thinnner but it's not...
the mellow colour of the steps against the hard strong black colour of the base is in perfect equilibrium. Amazing work, interesting as always and real fun to hear all you say!!!
Johnny Builds. I prefer the finish you used, the oil’s good too, but think about it, time will make the oil darker. 😉
Johnny Bills is an excellent helper. I loved the finish you put on the stairs.
I just watched the "big chisel" part. You mentioned how watching another wood working artist you thought how it would be. I thought about how a master of a particular craft can make what they do look so easy.
You are a perfect example of how a master of his craft, all of those gorgeous tables and such, make it look like "i could also do that easy enough"
Those paper thin shavings he created took years to master. Just like your creations took years to master.
Thank you for bringing us along on this stair building journey, it turned out incredible. Well done sir.
Edit to add: The pure works for me.
Just think about.
The video he showed was a japanese chisel...know to be razor sharp..different from timber chisel..try to see japanese chisels,u can see that one in the video...thanks
Jonny Builds… awesome teamwork! I thought this was going to go into a high end cabin as the focal point from first to second floor… so much more satisfying to see you’ll use it at the beginning and end of your project days. Sweet. You were in a win-win on finishes, but I agree with Jonny.
I like the lighter finish you chose - I think it does make a better contrast to the black than the pure finish does. The pure/natural was too orange, for my liking. At most, maybe something in the middle, to dull down the orange, but look slightly more natural might be ideal. But, if it's a choice between one or the other, I think the one you chose was the way to go!
I love your channel! Your voice is soothing (this keeps the dog from barking at the TV), your work is interesting and beautiful, and you don't play music (music is often depressing for me). Don't ever change a thing! Your channel is just what I've been looking for.
Johnny build a super awesome staircase together with you! Love it! Even I think, going with natural oil as finish to make the grain pop a bit more, could be nicer, but it looks awesome the way it is !!! Greetings from Germany, watching you since years and its really nice to see your progress dude. You're getting more professional and your projects getting more complicated and more interessting every day! Cudos
Johnny Builds. This is a really nice project. I love seeing the collaborations between UA-cam woodworkers also. Still hoping one day for a Blacktail/Bourbon Moth build. The styles and senses of humor are really different and that teaming up would either be incredible or horrifying. I'm hoping for the former but we'll never know until it happens.
Johnny builds another great project!!!! I also liked the darker finish with the black beam but the amount of effort and quality in all your builds is incredible!!!! Keep up the good work and maybe it will inspire someone in todays times of cutting corners to do quality work!!!!
I built a timber staircase like this in my boat about 6 years ago. It’s been awesome. It took a couple tries and a lot of head scratching without any computer designs, but I’ve loved it! Good job!
Jonny Builds!!!! Omg this thrilled me soooo much! I've been hoping the two of you would team up on a project!!! Definitely didn't disappoint. That staircase is gorgeous! Honestly, I don't think I have a preference between the pure and invisible finish.
Its such a gift to let people have the exact same idea. Especially when they have it previous to you and when you confirm it, its just special....you go Scott.
Johnny builds
As to the holes in the treads, my experience from another artform (photography), was that if you could not perfectly match something, that you should deliberately contrast it. That makes it a design element instead of a mistake. In the case of your treads, that could have meant using blackened dowels (to match the beam color). Possibly even drilling out the holes to use larger plugs. Again, turning it into a design element.
And FYI, I vote for the tread color you chose over the "natural oil".
Oo, very good call on the black plugs.
Johnny Build- You continue to amaze me with your ability to create what seems the impossible!
Hey Cam, Nice camera work when showing how well you did with the plugs! If the bounce gets worse you can always, put some stringers either side🥴 Or there is alot options out there. I like the look of the lighter wood👍
Johnny builds...The invisible finish is definitely the best choice. I'm an ex-missile engineer, and I'm impressed with how you and Johnny built these stairs.
I'm a retired structural engineering designer, and this project definitely impressed me. Stairs are always challenging - but are still simply triangles and offsets, which, when properly executed, result in perfectly constructed transitions between floors. Beautifully executed here. I LOVE STAIRS!
Except it wobbled when he walked down it. Not beautifully executed.
no it didn't. @@cry_now_laugh_later
I think the best thing about this whole build is how much fun the both of you are having. 👌🏿
Being a joiner/carpenter myself, I obviously love being a woodworm and seeing others doing their projects. I sometimes colorize wood, but, I'm the guy who likes the original woodcolorings. Therefore I'm in the camp of those who said you should've simply used no color at all. Just a varnish for staircases and end of story. But, it's your project, and you decide what gets used. Other than that, you did a very good job. Staircases are time-consuming projects and not made on a Saturday afternoon in between a midday nap and evening dinner. Take a bow, Sir Blacktail 🤗
I have a good friend that helps me on projects and we always make things extra beefy/strong just to get the look like this is never going anywhere. I get those same vibes from your build. Love it. I am a little surprised you didn't use any filler on those checks in the main beam, especially considering the finish you applied. I think I would have applied some sawdust and glue to close those gaps.
I thought the same!!!
And also, the grain orientation of those little thingies
Those are for spider storage.
I love your staircase and pretty much any videos you post. I think for stability sake the only change I would make would be to split your stair stringer to share the load from side to side. Even splitting the beam in half would help get rid of side to side wobble. Which I think is where the springy feeling you are noticing and not sagging of the wood beam. The thiccness, yes with two c's, of the treads and that split beam would support an elephant. Not that you frequently keep pachyderms in your upstairs or anything.
Johnny Builds - I had to build a staircase for my home and only decided how to do it after everything else in the house was already finished. I'm an amateur woodworker, so it was freaking hard to do it and I actually ended up making a 2.0 and 2.5 version afterwards because the first version was not good enough. All that being said, I was impressed by this build. You definitely mastered it and made it look awesome!
Also, I noticed that other than bouncing the steps were tilting sideways a little bit as you were stepping on them or applying the finish (27:05). Did you come up with a solution or it didn't bother you at all?
Johnny Builds.....loved watching the video, and your honesty (in certain area!) I also employ the "Think about it!" logic often when building.....hopefully, well thought out projects stand up to the test of time.....Nice job, and loved the finished product....!
The invisible uv oil is better than the natural. Because it matches the black oil better. Black and a white are in the gray scale of colour. The natural oil brings out yellows and orange. The black and white pigments will allow the stairs to fit in with more variety of other design pieces in a space. If you used natural you would be introducing colours that will need to match other timber objects in the space. Or you could have clashing of too many slightly different timber colour tones.
Think about it!
Great work on the stairs its a really beautiful result.