I think you need to remember that wedding photography is as much about people and people management as it is about photography. I never touched it because I know I would be awful at that! You also need to be prepared to give up your weekends....! I have also noticed that there is a standard series of shots that are expected so it has become a tad formulaic. That said, getting ANY work as a photographer that pays enough to live on is increasingly hard to be honest, regardless of genre. I spent thousands on a US based marketing agency, produced expensive print portfolio and marketing materials. It was all pretty much a waste of time because as you say, it comes down to who you know. I placed myself at an even greater disadvantage by not only moving areas but moving countries! Talent is not enough, sadly. It may once have been but it certainly is not now. There are, as you mention, many very busy and well known photographers who are not especially talented photographers but who are talented at self-promotion, websites, social media use and so on.
This is why I have a day job that can support my photography habit! I got a few friends that said, "all right, I'll quit my job as a developer/advisor/etc and start a photography business". They wanted to make their hobby their livelyhood. After a few years, they usually quit because it ruined photography for them. Taxes, chasing people who don't pay, dealing with weird customers, and endless evening/nights editing is not what they thought it would be. So that is why, for me, this stays as a hobby :)
Yeah I'm at the same crossroads. I haven't been successful at all finding jobs and sure when I do I'll try but a lot of people just don't want to pay what I can do it is what it is. It is a real passion hobby of mine and in general it is so very much therapeutic for me. I don't mind trying out weddings if I ever get a true opportunity. Though weddings, funerals, hospitals I don't care for attending. My own wedding was just ten minutes in Las Vegas and that was enough for me lol 😆
Weddings are the most stressful things I've ever done as a photographer, and they were just for family weddings. I'm so glad I didn't have to rely on them for my living, especially back in the pre-digital era when one didn't know how the shots were turning out until a few days later.
@@DarcyOlManExtra I can't stand weddings, ever so boring. Then you got everyone saying can you take our picture? Then they complain about not being good enough, or this person is missing or that person is missing, exposure ain't right blah blah. The phone takes better pictures, they say. Taking these pictures is not enjoyable at all, it's the same thing over and over. Its about the same as making prison or hospital food, utter crap. You don't really make any individual personal achievement. I know that I've taken some of the best pictures on a 24 shot roll going out randomly in the street back in the 80s. Talking about weddings , it comes with gossip and small talk.
Its all about who you know! I have changed states and careers my entire life. Not much to build on, but i also have become an introvert in my older age.
Interesting talk, never formally done a wedding but taken a few at family weddings, got some good photos!! I don't think wedding photography would suit me it's to stressful... Now a days I do photography for me!! Nice leather book in front of you, care to share make etc... Thanks for the great video
Wedding photography is definitely not my thing! The book was from India via Etsy www.etsy.com/uk/shop/UniqueleathergoodsIN?load_webview=1&bid=ARkg-UU9sH1nHX6ORaKY8T2uXMDW
Non-photographers generally don't look at photos the way we photographers do - this isn't confined to brides. I have taken some photos that I know to be technically and artistically bog ordinary that people think are amazing, and vice versa. C'est la vie.
Yes that’s certainly true. Same with videography. I often hear people saying how wonderful a video is on another channel, but technically it’s poor, but the average person can’t see that
I did shoot a wedding for a very good friend, as a favour. I wont ever do that again! I have also shot quite a few conferences (which I also arranged as being the Director of the company giving the conference ) - they are also pretty stressful! - lucky I don't have to do any of that anymore as I now live on a farm and photograph animals and landscapes instead. Thanks for the insight.
Slow process getting started but once you shoot a few weddings the bookings come in. Quality of work does not matter, the main thing which matters is if you show up with a business mind
I was hoping to get into wedding photography, did photograph 2, then Covid hit, and everything stopped - including me! I realised that I am an introvert (even more so than I thought), and that this kind of work does not suit me anyway. What I mean is: I find people annoying! LOL
I did a wedding many year's ago for a work colleague. My payment (in advance) was that they bought me a flash gun. Hard times. Olympus OM10 and a wobbly velbon tripod 😂. Never again. I have attended weddings as a guest and taken my camera for candids which were well received - but the high pressure and anxiety of actual wedding photography really stunted my creativity. I'm sure if I'd have continued and persevered this might have changed but I was exceptionally uncomfortable and didn't continue. Of course, in the days of film cameras a big difference was that you'd no idea what you were getting until the pics were processed. There's a luxury today (with digital) in the instant recall and ability to pixel peep which has undoubtedly made a huge difference. But for me - it's still no. Love this channel James. Keep up the great work 👍. I also love my Classic 350 but that's for another channel 😉
I’ve been shooting weddings for 5 years now, and I can tell you nothing is more frustrating than seeing the 20 year old girl with a canon + only a 35mm prime and subpar portfolio whom knows everybody get weddings left and right while you have to beg and jump through hoops with your high end gear and solid portfolio to get clients because you aren’t a local celebrity. If anyone has tips please send them my way. Advertising only works slightly
Word of mouth is priceless, but a good website will also bring in work. Race to the bottom websites like Bark etc are useless. You also find your next client while at a wedding. Make an impression; be charismatic. Most weddings have guests who will also be planning weddings. The fact you say you don’t like weddings and are quite disparaging about brides - I’ve shot loads who know exactly what they want and do understand good photography and book me for my style of photography, and my personality - possibly explains the lack of success (even as a good photographer). But essentially if you don’t really want to be a wedding photographer - wedding photography is hard work - then you’re not likely to be successful at it and shouldn’t do it. If you actually enjoy it then you should do it and should put the effort into unstinting the business and how to market yourself well, so you don’t need to be the local lad who just shoots everyone in the village!
Shot a fair number of weddings back in film days using medium format (6x6). Worked my butt off and hated every minute of it. Most of the pros that I have worked around over the years have quit the photo business. Just doesn't pay the bills.
Wedding photography is awful, because people have a crazy mad preconceptions of whats possible possible in the venue they book . They book the local cricket club for the after party meal etc etc, and want Hollywood stars photos and hello magazine style shots. And then don't want to pay you
One reason many of us older gray haired guys don’t get wedding jobs is because of our age. Many young couples simply don’t want to hire an older guy like me at age 70, even though my work is better than many others and my fees are lower, we are simply overlooked. I’ve never been a full time wedding g photographer, it’s just an occasional thing of maybe 12 a year. I’m pretty much finished looking to shoot weddings, I’ll focus on portraits, families, school sports portraits and ……….
People think they know about photography when they dont understand anything, most clients just follow trends. Weddings nowadays are a tough place to do photography, people are rude with their smartphones and dont care about our job.
Thanks for that, a very interesting discussion of the photography "business" in general. You suggest that you can spot a "good" wedding photograph when you see one. I'd be afraid to suggest that. How would you define a "good" wedding photograph? You're like Ayn Rand's character Howard Roark discussing good and bad architecture. :-)
I think you need to remember that wedding photography is as much about people and people management as it is about photography.
I never touched it because I know I would be awful at that!
You also need to be prepared to give up your weekends....!
I have also noticed that there is a standard series of shots that are expected so it has become a tad formulaic.
That said, getting ANY work as a photographer that pays enough to live on is increasingly hard to be honest, regardless of genre. I spent thousands on a US based marketing agency, produced expensive print portfolio and marketing materials. It was all pretty much a waste of time because as you say, it comes down to who you know. I placed myself at an even greater disadvantage by not only moving areas but moving countries!
Talent is not enough, sadly. It may once have been but it certainly is not now. There are, as you mention, many very busy and well known photographers who are not especially talented photographers but who are talented at self-promotion, websites, social media use and so on.
This is why I have a day job that can support my photography habit! I got a few friends that said, "all right, I'll quit my job as a developer/advisor/etc and start a photography business". They wanted to make their hobby their livelyhood. After a few years, they usually quit because it ruined photography for them. Taxes, chasing people who don't pay, dealing with weird customers, and endless evening/nights editing is not what they thought it would be.
So that is why, for me, this stays as a hobby :)
Yeah I'm at the same crossroads. I haven't been successful at all finding jobs and sure when I do I'll try but a lot of people just don't want to pay what I can do it is what it is. It is a real passion hobby of mine and in general it is so very much therapeutic for me. I don't mind trying out weddings if I ever get a true opportunity. Though weddings, funerals, hospitals I don't care for attending. My own wedding was just ten minutes in Las Vegas and that was enough for me lol 😆
Weddings are the most stressful things I've ever done as a photographer, and they were just for family weddings. I'm so glad I didn't have to rely on them for my living, especially back in the pre-digital era when one didn't know how the shots were turning out until a few days later.
Yes not enjoyable imo. I don’t even enjoy weddings as a guest!
@@DarcyOlManExtra
I can't stand weddings, ever so boring. Then you got everyone saying can you take our picture? Then they complain about not being good enough, or this person is missing or that person is missing, exposure ain't right blah blah. The phone takes better pictures, they say. Taking these pictures is not enjoyable at all, it's the same thing over and over. Its about the same as making prison or hospital food, utter crap. You don't really make any individual personal achievement. I know that I've taken some of the best pictures on a 24 shot roll going out randomly in the street back in the 80s. Talking about weddings , it comes with gossip and small talk.
Its all about who you know! I have changed states and careers my entire life. Not much to build on, but i also have become an introvert in my older age.
Love this second channel 👌Lovely characterful bags as well!
Thanks Angus 👍🏼👍🏼
Weddings are very tough to photograph. You'll get complaints no matter what. Just plan what to photograph and not miss out anyone.
Interesting talk, never formally done a wedding but taken a few at family weddings, got some good photos!! I don't think wedding photography would suit me it's to stressful... Now a days I do photography for me!!
Nice leather book in front of you, care to share make etc... Thanks for the great video
Wedding photography is definitely not my thing!
The book was from India via Etsy www.etsy.com/uk/shop/UniqueleathergoodsIN?load_webview=1&bid=ARkg-UU9sH1nHX6ORaKY8T2uXMDW
Non-photographers generally don't look at photos the way we photographers do - this isn't confined to brides. I have taken some photos that I know to be technically and artistically bog ordinary that people think are amazing, and vice versa. C'est la vie.
Yes that’s certainly true. Same with videography. I often hear people saying how wonderful a video is on another channel, but technically it’s poor, but the average person can’t see that
I did shoot a wedding for a very good friend, as a favour. I wont ever do that again! I have also shot quite a few conferences (which I also arranged as being the Director of the company giving the conference ) - they are also pretty stressful! - lucky I don't have to do any of that anymore as I now live on a farm and photograph animals and landscapes instead. Thanks for the insight.
Slow process getting started but once you shoot a few weddings the bookings come in. Quality of work does not matter, the main thing which matters is if you show up with a business mind
I was hoping to get into wedding photography, did photograph 2, then Covid hit, and everything stopped - including me! I realised that I am an introvert (even more so than I thought), and that this kind of work does not suit me anyway. What I mean is: I find people annoying! LOL
I did a wedding many year's ago for a work colleague. My payment (in advance) was that they bought me a flash gun. Hard times. Olympus OM10 and a wobbly velbon tripod 😂. Never again. I have attended weddings as a guest and taken my camera for candids which were well received - but the high pressure and anxiety of actual wedding photography really stunted my creativity. I'm sure if I'd have continued and persevered this might have changed but I was exceptionally uncomfortable and didn't continue. Of course, in the days of film cameras a big difference was that you'd no idea what you were getting until the pics were processed. There's a luxury today (with digital) in the instant recall and ability to pixel peep which has undoubtedly made a huge difference. But for me - it's still no.
Love this channel James. Keep up the great work 👍. I also love my Classic 350 but that's for another channel 😉
I’ve been shooting weddings for 5 years now, and I can tell you nothing is more frustrating than seeing the 20 year old girl with a canon + only a 35mm prime and subpar portfolio whom knows everybody get weddings left and right while you have to beg and jump through hoops with your high end gear and solid portfolio to get clients because you aren’t a local celebrity. If anyone has tips please send them my way. Advertising only works slightly
Word of mouth is priceless, but a good website will also bring in work. Race to the bottom websites like Bark etc are useless. You also find your next client while at a wedding. Make an impression; be charismatic. Most weddings have guests who will also be planning weddings.
The fact you say you don’t like weddings and are quite disparaging about brides - I’ve shot loads who know exactly what they want and do understand good photography and book me for my style of photography, and my personality - possibly explains the lack of success (even as a good photographer). But essentially if you don’t really want to be a wedding photographer - wedding photography is hard work - then you’re not likely to be successful at it and shouldn’t do it. If you actually enjoy it then you should do it and should put the effort into unstinting the business and how to market yourself well, so you don’t need to be the local lad who just shoots everyone in the village!
Love your channel cheers from Switzerland
Shot a fair number of weddings back in film days using medium format (6x6). Worked my butt off and hated every minute of it. Most of the pros that I have worked around over the years have quit the photo business. Just doesn't pay the bills.
It’s not easy. With the constant bombardment of photographs on social media, the average person doesn’t value a good photo like they used to.
Nice informations, very useful
I am interested in how you do make money in photography if not weddings?
Wedding photography is awful, because people have a crazy mad preconceptions of whats possible possible in the venue they book . They book the local cricket club for the after party meal etc etc, and want Hollywood stars photos and hello magazine style shots.
And then don't want to pay you
Thanks for the insight.
No problem 👍🏼
One reason many of us older gray haired guys don’t get wedding jobs is because of our age. Many young couples simply don’t want to hire an older guy like me at age 70, even though my work is better than many others and my fees are lower, we are simply overlooked. I’ve never been a full time wedding g photographer, it’s just an occasional thing of maybe 12 a year. I’m pretty much finished looking to shoot weddings, I’ll focus on portraits, families, school sports portraits and ……….
That’s a good point, however, in my case, nobody would have known what age I was by my marketing.
Good luck with your future direction 👍🏼👍🏼
@@DarcyOlManExtra oh. My website has my profile picture.
People think they know about photography when they dont understand anything, most clients just follow trends. Weddings nowadays are a tough place to do photography, people are rude with their smartphones and dont care about our job.
True
Thanks for that, a very interesting discussion of the photography "business" in general. You suggest that you can spot a "good" wedding photograph when you see one. I'd be afraid to suggest that. How would you define a "good" wedding photograph? You're like Ayn Rand's character Howard Roark discussing good and bad architecture. :-)
I had to look that up. I’ve been described as maverick middle class; I certainly follow my own path 👍🏼
My friend says all the advertising websites in general are bollocks. They dont work
Where can I see your portfolio? I guess to find you and your work must be a good start to hire you as a photographer?
I've retired so it's no longer online.
I think marriage is a very bad contract for men so I dont want to make money on the celebration of such bad deal for the male part.
you have my respect brother