My new studio is very nearly ready! My website is now as fully stocked as it is going to be this year for 1-2-1 and portfolios reviews www.tinhouse-studio.com
I also think that it is important to understand your own individual circumstances. This video is a good base to start from but we live in a world that is so diverse that shooting big commercial projects is not the only way to make money as a photographer. Not everyone has 2 million for an ad campaign, there are so many genres of photography to make money from and today more than ever, content is king and there are so many ways to do it. What you really need to have is a good understanding or where you fit in the grand scheme of things and if that enables you you pay both your professional and personal bills.
I seriously thought a few years ago about if to turn my hobby of many years into a job, and decided that not only was I not realistically good enough and also that it wasn’t where I wanted my photography to go. ‘I am a photographer’ because emotionally that’s who I am, but for me there’s a big difference between that and making a living
Scott - that video on the sources you look to and recognise as inspiration would be a welcome one. The info in this video is valuable and not talked about enough. But the positive side is needed, too.
Dude. BRUTAL in what you said about FStoppers et al… But SO TRUE. I follow those channels to know what's going on in software and maybe get some fresh ideas on processing techniques and so on… But seriously. The actual photography is NOT the type of work that's marketable. That's the biggest hurdle you mentioned in my opinion… People just don't push themselves to REALLY consume content someone is actually paying money for.
When I asked one of my friends what fashion photographrrs he admired, he mentioned matt granger and jason lanier. I wasn't sure what to tell him. I coildn't believe he was serious. It is definitely a different world between hobby photography and commercial work.
Hard hitting but on point! Thanks for this Scott. I’ve been doing food photography for 8 months now and it’s surely been a learning curve. Although projects are sleek and I’ve setup a small studio at home, it’ll be great to know how you distinguish commercial work from Pretty pictures. Much regard to you on breaking the bubble 💪
Very harsh but also very true. I can be super insecure sometimes and was waiting for the hammer to drop on me, but actually you made me realise something that I need to work on. Thanks for an great video, and thanks for all the hard work, can't wait to see your next video
Thanks for saying things others just pretend are not relevant! I understand perfectly each and every single word of this video: married with kids and mortgage to repay, I can't just ask them a leap of faith on my dream to be a professional photographer, but I've been an enthusiast photographer for almost 18 years, I will only stop when the shutter does! And happy of my 2tb of projects! Since I got a drone, I can't help to notice all the drone shots in every film or documentary I see, and every time I'm out I see things "in frame" and my wife is mad because I stop the car to take that foggy moody shot that only seems to present in the most unpredictable time!
This was a great, honest but real talk about what it really means to be a photographer full-time. It wasn't for me either many, many years ago. Point 3 made the decision for me. I don't regret my decision. It was a great learning experience. Photography just became more of a hobby but I could provide for a real life and persue other things too.
Great advice for anyone thinking of being self employed in anything. I play at photography now but my profession was serious, ignore the business plan and accounting at your peril.
So two things. My 6 year old son came in while I was watching and asked if you're an elf. Your guess is as good as mine. Secondly I couldn't agree more. I've seen so many people over the last 15 years who love taking photos so think this is the career for them. They have no interest in the business side and, ultimately, that's always their downfall. I also remember seeing a post on a FB group from someone who'd given up their career to follow their dream of being a photographer and, five years in, were still struggling to make minimum wage. They were pretty angry about it, fed up of people not returning their calls, quotes not being followed up. But the thing that struck me the most was when they said they'd worked really hard for five years and it was their right to make a career of their passion. And honestly I've met quite a few people who feel the same way. They love taking photos, they feel they've put some hours in and now they expect the reward. And it's really heartbreaking when you hear they're struggling to pay bills and the stress it's causing at home. They should all watch this.
Thank you for another great video sir! Very few professionals think or say these things but they are invaluable in finding your way in this career. Hope you are fairing lockdown well, it has my head done in :) lol
Probably the most important thing I learnt as a cruise ship photographer is that it doesn't matter how much time you had taking photos previously and it doesn't matter how creative you are, at the end of the day you have to be able to produce as many sellable images as possible to make a living. You have to take photos that people are willing to buy. On the other hand, if you're not willing to learn how to do that or you try to create your "own unique style" that you think is great but nobody is paying for, then maybe photography is just a hobby for you. A very quick and cheap way to understand if you can become a professional would be to buy yourself a film camera and use it for a while. If you can't get the hang of it or can't produce an image that is close to sellable after 10 rolls of film, just quit right there. You will have saved yourself a whole lot of trouble, time and money this way.
I'm willing to put in the time but my problem is that I'm afraid I won't be able to get enough customer to stay afloat. I can't quit my full time job unless I'm sure I can make enough money to stay afloat. I feel that I could make it if I started out working for a commercial photography company. I could grow professionally and get the connections I'd need to do it on my own. Getting that job is the hard part. I might start freelancing on fiverr in the meantime to get a better portfolio and experience with customers.
I was intrigued by your reponse and curious to know if you followed up on your ‘going parttime freelance’ plan. What you describe is what’s holding back a lot of enthusiasts in photography and for good reason. The problem of creative professions is that you can never be sure you make enough money to stay afloat while at the same time it requires full-time dedication and hard work. So, the key question is whether you have enough confidence to take the risk. I’m in fashion photography for 35 years now and like Scott I’m not a genius. For the first 5 years I was in a constant financial crisis and it was a monthly survival course to pay the rent and by the 4th year all my savings were gone. The next 15 years I jumped on every assignment I could get to gain some financial stability and take care of the family. The last 15 years I can be picky and also take some time to do the stuff that I want to do. In the meanwhile, many other photographers around me, gave up and went for a steady job, like working in a (camera) store or so. Don’t be fooled: most commercial photography companies like you mention, don’t just pay a monthly salary for you to find out if you’re good enough. These photographers are self-employed freelancers too and associate themselves to a team and split costs and risks, rather than being paid by the company. My point is (like Scott’s message) that you have to have the guts to go all-in, then work really hard and in the end try to stay afloat, before you become successful. There are no shortcuts, unless you’re really talented and lucky. When you’re in doubt remember it’s like overtaking on a narrow road: when in doubt, don’t.
I've been considering transitioning away from it even though it pays for my expenses. Mind you, I specialize in real estate, interior design, product photography and some events to mix things up. I worked very hard to get where I am. 70+ hours a week shooting and editing. I've been doing this for a little over a decade now. I question where this career will take me. Although I create work of commercial value (as others value the quality of my work and are willing to compensate more for it) I can't claim that I I've created any groundbreaking work. There was a time when there was a gap in my skill level and I was driven to acquire and develop them. During that time I wasn't overwhelmed with the business of doing the photography and delivering a product. I could pursue other things and other elements of photography which would keep things interesting. I find that I've lost much of the zest for the activity. I guess the question is, once one has lost the passion for an activity does one simply walk away? I'm older now, and I'm not sure if I have the ability to transition to another career. I wonder if others are in a similar predicament.
When I was 22, I had an enormous passion for photography, and considered many times to become a professional photographer, but I hardly had any money to buy the gear I needed. Today, at 58, I have all the gear I need, but have lost much of the passion for photography. My job in engineering makes me too tired at the end of my work day to do anything else. I guess that I am not the only one who is just going to keep photography as a hobby. The interest is still there for me, but much of the passion that I had in my younger years is gone.
I agree with you all the way, and I am not even a professional! :))) But true! Stick to your gender, be good at it while having your personal taste and style.
What happens when you can't really tell the difference (more like why they are different) because you are still new and have to learn A LOT? I can't say that I'm a photographer, but I would like to be one...
Its an odd relationship. The work that has no place in the commercial world, is the very work that the commercial world steals from. Commercial work is by nature very repetitive. You either go timeless, or nouveau. Flick through the pages of Vogue. The style doesn't change much, just the fashion within the existing photographic style. Playboy, Time..it doesn't matter, it changes very little. When it does change, it has come from someone who has has done something that has stood apart from the commercial world...and that becomes the next norm that is considered commercial. As for the client, if they were doing shots and hiring one on one coaches and mentors, and after 10 years they had little to show for it..I can appreciate some people struggle to think dynamically, but I also appreciate there is more bad teachers than there is bad students.
I was watching web pages of other photographers and I saw that most of them have a very little "niche" and are not trying to be different. Many of them are following the same model at first they will show wedding photographs, food photographs, and after that their architecture photos. They are not specializing in something they are not trying to find something which can do better than others. Sure it is a hard business to succeed but doing everything and be average is a bad way to go in my opinion.
Unfortunately until you get to a point where you are able to understand the market and your niche you have to try different genres. You can't find out what you are best at without trying different things. Also, being able to do shoot more than one category will help you pay the bills by taking on different smaller scale jobs.
You can't make photography your main source of income that's just not viable, photography is something you do as a second job. Only like 0.01% of photographers make a living doing only photography and the quality of their photography suffers from it because the volume they have to churn out to be able to live from it. With hundreds of shoots a year.
My new studio is very nearly ready! My website is now as fully stocked as it is going to be this year for 1-2-1 and portfolios reviews www.tinhouse-studio.com
Darn was hoping you had a reason for me to quit 🤣 you’re one of the few photographer on here that understand real life photography
I also think that it is important to understand your own individual circumstances. This video is a good base to start from but we live in a world that is so diverse that shooting big commercial projects is not the only way to make money as a photographer. Not everyone has 2 million for an ad campaign, there are so many genres of photography to make money from and today more than ever, content is king and there are so many ways to do it. What you really need to have is a good understanding or where you fit in the grand scheme of things and if that enables you you pay both your professional and personal bills.
Yes. There are tons of ways to earn these days in photography
I seriously thought a few years ago about if to turn my hobby of many years into a job, and decided that not only was I not realistically good enough and also that it wasn’t where I wanted my photography to go. ‘I am a photographer’ because emotionally that’s who I am, but for me there’s a big difference between that and making a living
Scott - that video on the sources you look to and recognise as inspiration would be a welcome one. The info in this video is valuable and not talked about enough. But the positive side is needed, too.
this video is on point. Thanks for saying what you did.
Dude. BRUTAL in what you said about FStoppers et al… But SO TRUE. I follow those channels to know what's going on in software and maybe get some fresh ideas on processing techniques and so on… But seriously. The actual photography is NOT the type of work that's marketable. That's the biggest hurdle you mentioned in my opinion… People just don't push themselves to REALLY consume content someone is actually paying money for.
When I asked one of my friends what fashion photographrrs he admired, he mentioned matt granger and jason lanier. I wasn't sure what to tell him. I coildn't believe he was serious. It is definitely a different world between hobby photography and commercial work.
I thought you were lying on grass for the first few seconds😂 Super vid🙌
Hard hitting but on point! Thanks for this Scott. I’ve been doing food photography for 8 months now and it’s surely been a learning curve. Although projects are sleek and I’ve setup a small studio at home, it’ll be great to know how you distinguish commercial work from Pretty pictures. Much regard to you on breaking the bubble 💪
Very harsh but also very true. I can be super insecure sometimes and was waiting for the hammer to drop on me, but actually you made me realise something that I need to work on. Thanks for an great video, and thanks for all the hard work, can't wait to see your next video
Thanks for saying things others just pretend are not relevant! I understand perfectly each and every single word of this video: married with kids and mortgage to repay, I can't just ask them a leap of faith on my dream to be a professional photographer, but I've been an enthusiast photographer for almost 18 years, I will only stop when the shutter does! And happy of my 2tb of projects! Since I got a drone, I can't help to notice all the drone shots in every film or documentary I see, and every time I'm out I see things "in frame" and my wife is mad because I stop the car to take that foggy moody shot that only seems to present in the most unpredictable time!
Congrats on 20k subscribers 😁 and definitely hoping to put some time in your 1-2-1 options soon
Thanks, I look forward to hearing from you!
Great video as always! Really looking forward to your video about where to look for the "right" type of inspiration!
Awesome! Thank you! The video is up now
@@TinHouseStudioUK Awesome, thanks! That was quicker than expected :)
This was a great, honest but real talk about what it really means to be a photographer full-time. It wasn't for me either many, many years ago. Point 3 made the decision for me. I don't regret my decision. It was a great learning experience. Photography just became more of a hobby but I could provide for a real life and persue other things too.
Great advice for anyone thinking of being self employed in anything. I play at photography now but my profession was serious, ignore the business plan and accounting at your peril.
I always appreciate your sincerity in these videos. Thank you Sir
My pleasure
My studio is so cold I have to wear the ski coat in the photo with ski pants. Should get into Gelato photography.
So two things. My 6 year old son came in while I was watching and asked if you're an elf. Your guess is as good as mine.
Secondly I couldn't agree more. I've seen so many people over the last 15 years who love taking photos so think this is the career for them. They have no interest in the business side and, ultimately, that's always their downfall. I also remember seeing a post on a FB group from someone who'd given up their career to follow their dream of being a photographer and, five years in, were still struggling to make minimum wage. They were pretty angry about it, fed up of people not returning their calls, quotes not being followed up. But the thing that struck me the most was when they said they'd worked really hard for five years and it was their right to make a career of their passion. And honestly I've met quite a few people who feel the same way. They love taking photos, they feel they've put some hours in and now they expect the reward. And it's really heartbreaking when you hear they're struggling to pay bills and the stress it's causing at home. They should all watch this.
Stellar advice. Just perfect.
Thank you for another great video sir! Very few professionals think or say these things but they are invaluable in finding your way in this career. Hope you are fairing lockdown well, it has my head done in :) lol
My pleasure! Hope you start feeling better with the lockdown jazz soon
Good point if you want to be a serious photographer or anything else you need to be serious about it.
Probably the most important thing I learnt as a cruise ship photographer is that it doesn't matter how much time you had taking photos previously and it doesn't matter how creative you are, at the end of the day you have to be able to produce as many sellable images as possible to make a living. You have to take photos that people are willing to buy. On the other hand, if you're not willing to learn how to do that or you try to create your "own unique style" that you think is great but nobody is paying for, then maybe photography is just a hobby for you.
A very quick and cheap way to understand if you can become a professional would be to buy yourself a film camera and use it for a while. If you can't get the hang of it or can't produce an image that is close to sellable after 10 rolls of film, just quit right there. You will have saved yourself a whole lot of trouble, time and money this way.
Cool haha keep warm man.
I'm willing to put in the time but my problem is that I'm afraid I won't be able to get enough customer to stay afloat. I can't quit my full time job unless I'm sure I can make enough money to stay afloat. I feel that I could make it if I started out working for a commercial photography company. I could grow professionally and get the connections I'd need to do it on my own. Getting that job is the hard part. I might start freelancing on fiverr in the meantime to get a better portfolio and experience with customers.
I was intrigued by your reponse and curious to know if you followed up on your ‘going parttime freelance’ plan. What you describe is what’s holding back a lot of enthusiasts in photography and for good reason. The problem of creative professions is that you can never be sure you make enough money to stay afloat while at the same time it requires full-time dedication and hard work. So, the key question is whether you have enough confidence to take the risk.
I’m in fashion photography for 35 years now and like Scott I’m not a genius. For the first 5 years I was in a constant financial crisis and it was a monthly survival course to pay the rent and by the 4th year all my savings were gone. The next 15 years I jumped on every assignment I could get to gain some financial stability and take care of the family. The last 15 years I can be picky and also take some time to do the stuff that I want to do. In the meanwhile, many other photographers around me, gave up and went for a steady job, like working in a (camera) store or so.
Don’t be fooled: most commercial photography companies like you mention, don’t just pay a monthly salary for you to find out if you’re good enough. These photographers are self-employed freelancers too and associate themselves to a team and split costs and risks, rather than being paid by the company.
My point is (like Scott’s message) that you have to have the guts to go all-in, then work really hard and in the end try to stay afloat, before you become successful. There are no shortcuts, unless you’re really talented and lucky. When you’re in doubt remember it’s like overtaking on a narrow road: when in doubt, don’t.
what are purple portaits?
I've been considering transitioning away from it even though it pays for my expenses. Mind you, I specialize in real estate, interior design, product photography and some events to mix things up. I worked very hard to get where I am. 70+ hours a week shooting and editing. I've been doing this for a little over a decade now. I question where this career will take me. Although I create work of commercial value (as others value the quality of my work and are willing to compensate more for it) I can't claim that I I've created any groundbreaking work.
There was a time when there was a gap in my skill level and I was driven to acquire and develop them. During that time I wasn't overwhelmed with the business of doing the photography and delivering a product. I could pursue other things and other elements of photography which would keep things interesting. I find that I've lost much of the zest for the activity.
I guess the question is, once one has lost the passion for an activity does one simply walk away? I'm older now, and I'm not sure if I have the ability to transition to another career.
I wonder if others are in a similar predicament.
When I was 22, I had an enormous passion for photography, and considered many times to become a professional photographer, but I hardly had any money to buy the gear I needed. Today, at 58, I have all the gear I need, but have lost much of the passion for photography. My job in engineering makes me too tired at the end of my work day to do anything else. I guess that I am not the only one who is just going to keep photography as a hobby. The interest is still there for me, but much of the passion that I had in my younger years is gone.
That is the saddest story I heard in a while.
Thanks I needed this video. And don't knock beans on toast, it's one fine meal in my book!
Glad it was helpful!
When you should quit photography? Never, do whatever you like the way you want it. In a respectable way.
Thanks for the info! :)
I agree with you all the way, and I am not even a professional! :))) But true! Stick to your gender, be good at it while having your personal taste and style.
What happens when you can't really tell the difference (more like why they are different) because you are still new and have to learn A LOT? I can't say that I'm a photographer, but I would like to be one...
Its an odd relationship. The work that has no place in the commercial world, is the very work that the commercial world steals from. Commercial work is by nature very repetitive. You either go timeless, or nouveau. Flick through the pages of Vogue. The style doesn't change much, just the fashion within the existing photographic style. Playboy, Time..it doesn't matter, it changes very little. When it does change, it has come from someone who has has done something that has stood apart from the commercial world...and that becomes the next norm that is considered commercial.
As for the client, if they were doing shots and hiring one on one coaches and mentors, and after 10 years they had little to show for it..I can appreciate some people struggle to think dynamically, but I also appreciate there is more bad teachers than there is bad students.
I was watching web pages of other photographers and I saw that most of them have a very little "niche" and are not trying to be different. Many of them are following the same model at first they will show wedding photographs, food photographs, and after that their architecture photos. They are not specializing in something they are not trying to find something which can do better than others. Sure it is a hard business to succeed but doing everything and be average is a bad way to go in my opinion.
Unfortunately until you get to a point where you are able to understand the market and your niche you have to try different genres. You can't find out what you are best at without trying different things. Also, being able to do shoot more than one category will help you pay the bills by taking on different smaller scale jobs.
Actual examples of the genres of photography you say have no place in the commercial world would be helpful. As it is, I can only guess.
Imho when you decide to become a pro you quit. You then lost the passion for money.
Is it just me or that table in the right corner is a bit distracting :P . On point words though :)
haha yeah I didn't notice it until I had recorded like 6 videos.
You can't make photography your main source of income that's just not viable, photography is something you do as a second job. Only like 0.01% of photographers make a living doing only photography and the quality of their photography suffers from it because the volume they have to churn out to be able to live from it. With hundreds of shoots a year.
I like British English
Thanks
It technically is real English, no offence American and Australia.
@@noneofyourbeeswax371 you are stating facts, no offence there mate.