FOR 1200 rx 480 performance its not worth it.I just bought a 1080 ti for half that at $650 . I can beat this with other cards for alot less its just more like purchashing a 1050 to a 1060 with higher price tag.
Great video I really like these boxes. I was wondering if you considered using better thermal paste or even liquid metal? Maybe get a bit more out of thermals
Great review. I'm using the NUC8i7HVK mounted on the back of the monitor, and playing games with FreeSync enabled. Coudn't be happier with this kind of performance in such a tiny form factor.
It is a new technology and the vega chip is running with discrete HBM memory. This alone will cause the price to be quiete higher than if the integrated video chip shared the onboard memory. However, the cost to performance would have been significant. I can see this combo be introduced in new laptops at around a $800 price point. Atm though you are paying premium for an Intel product and early adoption!
Since the silicon is "exposed" to the "bare" heatsink wouldn't it do very little? It's a limitation of thermal mass not conductivity I think is the gist Steve gives.
Its a joke anyway. If any liquid metal leaks out it will be electrically conductive on your board. The size of the heatsink is the limiting factor in the cooling just by sheer surface area. But yes you would see a difference because its not the IHS on the normal cpu’s holding you back. The liquid metal transfers the heat far faster than thermal paste. But temps would equalize later
I'd take an LS over a Coyote any day, however LS vs Voodoo is a more difficult fight. Probably LS still because parts are everywhere and pushrod engines give a nice punch of torque nearly immediately
i prefer my 1080 ti for half that price at 650 . This is just worse performance compared to gpu prices . You can get a 1080 ti or vega 64 now . I got my 1080 ti for 650 or I can probably beat those rx 480 scores easily with my 780 ti or my 1080 ti . Ive already tested . I upgraded to 1080 ti now and Im very happy.
I am getting really impatient for the i7 8705G Vega M GL benchmarks that will be in the Dell XPS 15 2 in 1 and HP spectre X360 15. I can see that the GL will be at least 30% less powerful than the GH but I would like to see this in benchmarks and see the GL vs a 1050 and 1050ti. I loved the benchmarks comparing this chip to low end graphics, I really hope it surprised you and made you check the test settings. If these chips hit the mass market and stop Nvidea selling dodgy MX150s that are not truely MX150s and also hit the sales of 1050/1050ti laptops then it is great for us as consumers. The success of Ryzen has made Intel up their game and give us 6 core cpus sooner than they were planning and lets hope this keep Nvidea honest in the GFX market. Competition is great for the consumer and I like it.
Just buy the best product available on the day. I really would not rule out any of the tech giants for any reason , they all play games and try to confuse the majority of their customers. Let GN and other reviewers give us the knowledge we need and make the best choice we can. I have had awful products from NV like the FX 5200 ( yes that was a long time ago ) and also some great ones like a 8800 128mb (also a long time ago) and my current 1080 is fantastic and i bought it for just £410 before the gpu price explosion. Had a bad Intel P4 but great Q6600 and i5 750. AMD Athlon 64 was awesome for its time and my current Ryzen 5 1600 is also great but not without its faults. I will pick and choose what I buy from any of the PC players. The reason I love the PC ecosystem is because we have these choices and we are not forced into buying the massively overpriced Orchard merchandise.
Mine hangs out under my TV and does the following: - Boots in to Big Picture Mode on Steam, multiple games installed including emulators, Plex and UA-cam shortcuts etc - Omada Controller installed to manage my tp-link APs - Speaking of Plex: Is my Plex server - Hosting Hyper-V VMs of Pi-Hole and pfSense for my network, one NIC is dedicated to WAN one to LAN going to my 8-port switch Got the Hades Canyon around its launch and still going strong. Did some VR on it too just fine when I had my old Oculus. Just today decided to upgrade it from 16 GB of RAM to 32 GB. And the twist? I bought the cheaper one. Still handles all of this like a champ
Nice ad integration. It's nice Thermaltake allowed you to word it the honest way you did. You did a good job selling the case while remaining true to your conclusions.
i wish AMD got around to making a 2900XG APU that's basically this, but with 8C/16T on the TR4 socket. would it be stupidly expensive? for sure. overall silly and unnecessary? probably. but it *would* be kinda cool, especially on an mITX board
The multiple die technology was developed by Intel not AMD. Anyway, this product is a bit neither here nor there, an Asrock DeskMini Micro STX system with a MXM full fat 6GB 1060 is around the same price and much better performance and upgradability.
Dakota Lambert i thought there actually was an mITX board for X399, guess i was wrong. there is one for X299 which socket i think is smaller, though. but would TR4 really not fit on mITX? looking at AsRock's mATX board it looks like it might barely fit. if you sacrifice VRM performance and some slots and headers... i'd take mATX as well, though. there's not enough appreciation for mATX
Would I have been AMD I would have abandoned Radeon and partnered with Nvidia. AMD does great CPUs, Nvidia does crap. AMD does good GPUs but Nvidia has much more leverage. That partnership would makes much more sense than an Intel/AMD one...
From someone who merely aspires to be so competent with pcs, I must say that even if I don't always pick up what you're putting down, your videos are fascinating, incredibly in depth, and I may never understand why you have so many multimeters in the background. Thank you!
I am planning on buying one of these. I think it is fantastic. The price is totally justified. I wonder what it can do at different graphic resolutions. Please test this StarterUpSteve!
you should try just overclocking the gpu/hbm and leaving the cpu stock...also a aio cooler, thinking tr4 from enermax, would be a sweet vid...as always awesome video
Biggest difference is Vega M GH has 64 rops which is the same as Vega 64/56. Comparing the uplift between GH & GL would be interesting since gcn is thought to be rop bottlenecked. Vega M GH competes nicely with the RX 470, despite the RX 470 being a discrete card having 63 % more shaders, higher TDP, and better cooling (but with half the rops of Vega M GH). Wonder how much Polaris would benefit from added rops.
AMD knows how to do custom chips very well so I'm not impressed that they managed to do it. But they did it very well. As usual really in-depth review like no one on youtube really.
AMD didn't make the custom chip they only provide VEGA M (and HBM ?), Intel make this with their EMIB. Shame it is SO expensive. Intel MUST tackle their pricing.
As far as I know the development was done in conjuction. Also the GPU used has 24CU which is nowhere to be found in products other than this one. So, even if they "only" made a different GPU core, they had to do it.
I do find it strange that AMD were prepared to make a GPU which is unique without wanting to be able to use it. No doubt they will use this for research towards the design in later Polaris replacements.
Exactly, APU's are by nature constrained to sharing the onboard system memory. Although, wouldn't it be interesting for AMD to release CPU's with Vega's integrated graphic cores while sharing like 8GB HBM memory between the cpu and gpu, where 1/8 of the memory is dedicated as high speed cache for the cpu and have it use ddr4 as swap?
I just realized that the logo on the box exactly represents what's inside. The blue brain is from Intel, but the things you'll see on the display are from Amd with the red eyes
It just so happens that a 2560x1600 10.1 inch screen fits almost flush with the motherboard. You could wire a screen up to this, stuff a decent small battery inside, under volt and down clock everything slightly, and put some joycons on the sides to end up with the worlds most powerful handheld game console. Leave the tb3 ports open and you can make a dock with a powerful gpu and instantly overclock the unit for awesome 4k playback on the big screen. It’s basically like the pc version of a switch. $1000 for the nuc, $1000 for max ram and a 4tb nvme drive for extra storage and small space, $150 for the ips panel, $150 for a battery, and another $250 for a custom enclosure. Seems like the perfect project for a youtuber who has companies throw money at them to send them products.
Im so happy for the honesty here, had discussions about this one, and you nailed the use cases and the price to performance to size, can't say it's unbeatable for sure, but it probably is when considering what it offers, im really tempted to buy one, and even more interesting part is i'm not supporting nvidia and still having the best product proposition.
I just bought the lower end HNK model, to replace an antique HTPC, and couldn't be happier. Virtually silent at idle and media playback, and have still not heard the fan while gaming (full disclosure...my gaming go-to's are titles like Dirt2, HalfLife2 and Portal2). These prior generation games all played at more than acceptable frame rates with enuff rendering features turned on to make 'em pretty...easily beating out the system this replaced. WAY more than I planned to spend (close to $2000 up here in Canada w/ 500GB 660p SSD/16GB Ram and Win 10 Pro) but price/performance/formfactor value is unmatched. Hell, snap it to the back of a monitor, at it could rival or best a comparably priced iMAc!
I hope this concept takes off and gets adopted to replace cruddy SOC prebuilts. I would love to see Lenovo boxes that have this kind of processing power. If the hardware components are souldered to the board, at least one is free to play with the clock speeds.
It'll be interesting to see the driver support for this product down the road. If it gets good support I'll get the next generation NUC. Although this unit is impressive, and I have no complaint about the price, it's too much of a risk making the jump if driver support isn't good.
Sooo, I know that this sort of eliminated the convenience and form factor benefits, but I feel that a 120mm aio could work wonders. The mounting holes seem to be in a square shape, so there has to be some bracket that would fit this socket
Good review despite clickbait title. This unit poses no serious threat to Nvidia, who doesn't focus on this low end. How much actual market share does this involve anyway? Not much, and you can get pre-built PCS in this price range that perform better.
I really wish more of these types of devices existed. Just, build something similar to a gaming laptop in terms of power, and take away the screen, keyboard, keypad. Then, add more I/O.
WOW! Impressive performance, for such a small package! (And I'm sure you've all heard that before!) It looks like you could use a modified ThreadRipper water block to cool it. (Tell me I'm wrong, or right) This product definitely seems like something to consider, given that it appears to blow away the 2200G and 2400G, and keeps up with lower end discrete graphics. Great review, as always. Tech Jesus , you are the best! And it's good to see the competitors working together.
Remember that to test AMD APU's it's better to lock the clocks since there's a known issue on many mobos where the gpu clocks goes down to 300-450Mhz, hence the low "mins" (in the 0.1%) vs the GT1030 while avrg and 1% are more or less neck and neck.
Steve this was an excellent video. I know you're concerned with ROI, but I'd be curious if you'd consider underclocking/undervolting the CPU. I don't think tue system's gaming capability would suffer from the lowered CPU multiplier, but it might help with noise/thermals. Just curious!
Interesting. I'd love to see this move forward as a socketed/upgradable formfactor at a lower price. Maybe some economy-of-scale and popularity could make that a reality.
If multi chip modules would come out as more than just Intel cpu and AMD gpu, this could change the laptop industry a lot, especially if you add more variety from brands instead of mid-range processors. Instead of two dies with two coolers or one cooler with a lot of piping, the mcm die package could cut down on space taken up by cooling, or make cooling better. That pcb is also fairly small, which leaves room for more battery, or thinner systems; I haven't messed around with laptops for awhile, but aren't the pcbs usually around 80% or so of the chassis size?
Imagine, if this was half the price, it would be a total PC and console killer .i would definitely snag one . Even imagine it wielding a full vega 56, the possibilities will be limitless .
The performance is better than I expected. I wonder how well laptop versions of this will perform. You could use one of these for a basic steam machine, game stream or TV PC it wont blow you away but for something small you could hide behind/mount to a TV or put in that dvd/vcr slot on your TV stand. And in the long run thunderbolt 3 and possible gpu expansion. I did wonder however how well would it work as a secondary machine for a streaming rig linked up to a capture card etc? Not price effective I know but something that size means you wouldn't need the space for two big box PCs if you wanted to render streams on a separate device.
What I really want to see is this thing in an ultrabook form factor. There are a couple laptops on the market now using it (though really only a couple) but they're still fairly large machines...
I really wonder if a more traditional cooling solution as found on gpus with a bigger heatsink and one fan would not be better than this solution with two fans and one long and narrow heat sink solution.
For this price point I don't see why they couldn't make the finstack copper, or even increase the fin density. Copper alone would make a huge difference because it can hold way more heat than aluminum.
I always wondered what was the next form factor would be. Something like how atx won over btx. I don’t know about cpu and gpu combos. This removes modularity that everyone enjoys with a regular atx/ITX layout. Maybe a cpu with fully saturated HBM ram? That would be cool.
If you still have the NUC, could you also test power consumption and update the vid/article? This chip is going into a lot of laptops, which makes power consumption quite important.
But did you lower the voltage as much as possible in your OC attempt? CPU undervolting is pretty much mandatory for laptops these days, especially for someone that knows how to overclock. Vega also benefits from undervolting.
Now take that thing and mod / overclock the heck out it. Like add watercooling, hook up to an actual powersupply somehow(doubt that is possible). It would be fun to see how fast that custom gpu can be.
Raja left AMD (offically) ~November 8, 2017 (or that's when it was announced I guess). He had taken a leave of absence from AMD since the Vega launch(?). Does GN have any industry insight into the timeline of the i7/Vega M development? Is 5 months enough time to engineer & produce something like this? Interesting technology for sure
I'm confused. Does this unit not use power? I did check the written review besides watching this, but could not find data on how much power it draws. Besides that: Good review as always :) ..and it's an interesting little thing. FAR FAR to expensive for me to want it, but i wouldn't mind if it could help push Nvidia around a little ;)
This Vega system works pretty well in mobile and APU settings. Very impressive. This little box is putting out some very respectable performance for what it is.. I wasn't expecting this. Gotta give credit to Intel for putting this thing together too, it was really their doing. P.S. ..I just realized I've said something nice about Intel for the first time in a while lol.
I have a few questions for this, maybe a short follow up. Possible to turn off the vega gpu for a higher clock on cpu? (Using a case and thunderbolt to external gpu). How easy is it to install hardware, please show :) And how in this kind of setup with external gpu does it compare to desktop counterparts? Really curious about those details :)
Holy crap that is a ton of power in such a small form factor, and it's not even expensive I mean my comp with an FX8350 and 290 cost more than that, and you could probably fit a family of 4 in my computer case (and power draw would be like 5x the amount this draws).
Awesome device... Just wondering why amd doesn't build this themselves with Vega and their ryzen lineup. What exactly are they gaining with using the Intel cpu over their own? I'm all for the partnership with an awesome product but it feels like they are helping a competitor when they finally have a capable cpu of their own.
With the low end Hades Canyon NUC pushing 65W TDP it is a candidate for a custom fanless case, shouldn't be that hard to do and would makes it a very powerful HTPC. Higher end NUC pushing 100W TDP would I think be a little too hard for completely fanless but I suspect someone will prove me wrong
Article: www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3282-hades-canyon-review-intel-amd-pressure-nvidia-nuc8i7hvk
FOR 1200 rx 480 performance its not worth it.I just bought a 1080 ti for half that at $650 . I can beat this with other cards for alot less its just more like purchashing a 1050 to a 1060 with higher price tag.
Did you try liquid metal? Just wondering :)
Now tell us what the cooler mounting dimensions are please... could be very usefull info when testing the full potential of the cpu/gpu pairing....
I'm thinking of course, the Noctua NHl9i with liquid metal. Maybe a custom mounting bracket
Great video I really like these boxes. I was wondering if you considered using better thermal paste or even liquid metal? Maybe get a bit more out of thermals
performance > never being able to hear again
Loved that, made me laugh.
Great vid tho
Please do some sort of cooling mod , then go crazy with the overclock.
waiting for the shunt mods+liquid metal
omg pls STOP with that shunt mod BS!
Do it properly if you do it, get a fucking soldering iron, and a pack of resistors
Great review. I'm using the NUC8i7HVK mounted on the back of the monitor, and playing games with FreeSync enabled. Coudn't be happier with this kind of performance in such a tiny form factor.
interested in more content based on this hardware, look forward to it. you guys always deliver the best information. love it
pros: Performance
cons: Price
Andrius Kamarauskas
God your pfp fits so well.
It is a new technology and the vega chip is running with discrete HBM memory. This alone will cause the price to be quiete higher than if the integrated video chip shared the onboard memory. However, the cost to performance would have been significant. I can see this combo be introduced in new laptops at around a $800 price point. Atm though you are paying premium for an Intel product and early adoption!
D B Consoles don't make money on hardware.
+D B, consoles run at 30 fps, this doesn't.
D B Yeah, a quad-core i7 + Vega dGPU is definitely comparable to a PlayStation 4. Totally.
But did you capture the out of the box thermals?! #ootbt
Gotta catch 'em all
I think we need In the box thermals this time.
Half_Finis Looks like you're not in on the joke :(
Lame
I think Steve should produce a shirt with "OUT OF BOX THERMALS" on it. I would definitely be in for at least two of them.
Could you be cringier? #cybc
Finally, felt like the Skull Canyon successor would never arrive. Boy did it.. amazing product.
Nvidia's Mobile GPU's are priced like crazy, a bit more competition will be good
but max Q is realy good
Liquid metal that sucker for us
Since the silicon is "exposed" to the "bare" heatsink wouldn't it do very little? It's a limitation of thermal mass not conductivity I think is the gist Steve gives.
Kryonaut would be next best.
Its a joke anyway. If any liquid metal leaks out it will be electrically conductive on your board. The size of the heatsink is the limiting factor in the cooling just by sheer surface area. But yes you would see a difference because its not the IHS on the normal cpu’s holding you back. The liquid metal transfers the heat far faster than thermal paste. But temps would equalize later
*fistbump*
Hook up a waterblock between the coldplate and the fishtank. That will look great in the livingroom.
I changed my mind; I like the background shelving, well done,
Aptly named: "HADES CANYON" for real! Hell has Frozen OVER! A Chevrolet Corvette with a Ford Mustang Engine! WOW!
OctoMan PC's I'd say it's more like when Chrysler decided the Neons would use BMW's designed tritec 4 cylinder engine made in Brazil.
OctoMan PC's I’d prefer a Mustang with a Corvette engine, personally.
I'd take an LS over a Coyote any day, however LS vs Voodoo is a more difficult fight. Probably LS still because parts are everywhere and pushrod engines give a nice punch of torque nearly immediately
a mustang taken to Lingenfelter!
i prefer my 1080 ti for half that price at 650 . This is just worse performance compared to gpu prices . You can get a 1080 ti or vega 64 now . I got my 1080 ti for 650 or I can probably beat those rx 480 scores easily with my 780 ti or my 1080 ti . Ive already tested . I upgraded to 1080 ti now and Im very happy.
dun ding du ding. AMtel inside!
I am getting really impatient for the i7 8705G Vega M GL benchmarks that will be in the Dell XPS 15 2 in 1 and HP spectre X360 15. I can see that the GL will be at least 30% less powerful than the GH but I would like to see this in benchmarks and see the GL vs a 1050 and 1050ti.
I loved the benchmarks comparing this chip to low end graphics, I really hope it surprised you and made you check the test settings.
If these chips hit the mass market and stop Nvidea selling dodgy MX150s that are not truely MX150s and also hit the sales of 1050/1050ti laptops then it is great for us as consumers. The success of Ryzen has made Intel up their game and give us 6 core cpus sooner than they were planning and lets hope this keep Nvidea honest in the GFX market. Competition is great for the consumer and I like it.
Just buy the best product available on the day. I really would not rule out any of the tech giants for any reason , they all play games and try to confuse the majority of their customers. Let GN and other reviewers give us the knowledge we need and make the best choice we can.
I have had awful products from NV like the FX 5200 ( yes that was a long time ago ) and also some great ones like a 8800 128mb (also a long time ago) and my current 1080 is fantastic and i bought it for just £410 before the gpu price explosion. Had a bad Intel P4 but great Q6600 and i5 750. AMD Athlon 64 was awesome for its time and my current Ryzen 5 1600 is also great but not without its faults. I will pick and choose what I buy from any of the PC players.
The reason I love the PC ecosystem is because we have these choices and we are not forced into buying the massively overpriced Orchard merchandise.
Lee Greenway I won't buy nvidia till they learn to not try and be anticompetitive. If they do I will replace my current nvidia card.
Whoever did that opening shot with the Intel NUC did a great job
I really hope this sticks it to Nvidia. I want to see them taken down a few pegs. Their practices of late are atrocious.
Mine hangs out under my TV and does the following:
- Boots in to Big Picture Mode on Steam, multiple games installed including emulators, Plex and UA-cam shortcuts etc
- Omada Controller installed to manage my tp-link APs
- Speaking of Plex: Is my Plex server
- Hosting Hyper-V VMs of Pi-Hole and pfSense for my network, one NIC is dedicated to WAN one to LAN going to my 8-port switch
Got the Hades Canyon around its launch and still going strong. Did some VR on it too just fine when I had my old Oculus. Just today decided to upgrade it from 16 GB of RAM to 32 GB. And the twist? I bought the cheaper one. Still handles all of this like a champ
Nice ad integration. It's nice Thermaltake allowed you to word it the honest way you did. You did a good job selling the case while remaining true to your conclusions.
This thing is dope. Second post on it. We needs it.
i wish AMD got around to making a 2900XG APU that's basically this, but with 8C/16T on the TR4 socket. would it be stupidly expensive? for sure. overall silly and unnecessary? probably.
but it *would* be kinda cool, especially on an mITX board
The multiple die technology was developed by Intel not AMD. Anyway, this product is a bit neither here nor there, an Asrock DeskMini Micro STX system with a MXM full fat 6GB 1060 is around the same price and much better performance and upgradability.
Valfaun yeah totally Vega and Zen in one package👌
Valfaun TR4 wouldn’t fit in mITX.
Would make a lot more sense on AM4 than on TR4.
Dakota Lambert i thought there actually was an mITX board for X399, guess i was wrong. there is one for X299 which socket i think is smaller, though. but would TR4 really not fit on mITX? looking at AsRock's mATX board it looks like it might barely fit. if you sacrifice VRM performance and some slots and headers... i'd take mATX as well, though. there's not enough appreciation for mATX
Intel, AMD, this is some nice proof that you boys could do such wonderful, horrible things if you could only get along better.
Would I have been AMD I would have abandoned Radeon and partnered with Nvidia. AMD does great CPUs, Nvidia does crap. AMD does good GPUs but Nvidia has much more leverage.
That partnership would makes much more sense than an Intel/AMD one...
From someone who merely aspires to be so competent with pcs, I must say that even if I don't always pick up what you're putting down, your videos are fascinating, incredibly in depth, and I may never understand why you have so many multimeters in the background.
Thank you!
*PCB* Analasys *NOW* !
good for doing outstation work and gaming on the go.hmmm.will consider this. good job steve on the detailed reviews.
At 11:30, G4560 is typed to G456. Good review!
I am planning on buying one of these. I think it is fantastic. The price is totally justified. I wonder what it can do at different graphic resolutions. Please test this StarterUpSteve!
you should try just overclocking the gpu/hbm and leaving the cpu stock...also a aio cooler, thinking tr4 from enermax, would be a sweet vid...as always awesome video
How long before Steve tries to bolt on the Enermax sTR4 cooler on it?
Enjoyed the watch! Looks like an interesting device I'd love to play with but have very little need for.
Biggest difference is Vega M GH has 64 rops which is the same as Vega 64/56. Comparing the uplift between GH & GL would be interesting since gcn is thought to be rop bottlenecked. Vega M GH competes nicely with the RX 470, despite the RX 470 being a discrete card having 63 % more shaders, higher TDP, and better cooling (but with half the rops of Vega M GH). Wonder how much Polaris would benefit from added rops.
AMD knows how to do custom chips very well so I'm not impressed that they managed to do it. But they did it very well. As usual really in-depth review like no one on youtube really.
AMD didn't make the custom chip they only provide VEGA M (and HBM ?), Intel make this with their EMIB. Shame it is SO expensive. Intel MUST tackle their pricing.
clansome. I'm sure amd helped on the development. Because it is a custom Vega chip for Intel.
clansome While it was a custom solution, AMD stated that they worked together on that project
As far as I know the development was done in conjuction. Also the GPU used has 24CU which is nowhere to be found in products other than this one. So, even if they "only" made a different GPU core, they had to do it.
I do find it strange that AMD were prepared to make a GPU which is unique without wanting to be able to use it. No doubt they will use this for research towards the design in later Polaris replacements.
Wait what. this weird cpu gpu combo is better than 1050 ti oc ?
Nepo can't believe it too
Yup :3
I would hope that Vega would best a measly 1050ti
Berenger Christy yup 🙄
This whole NUC is basically the size of a 1050ti.
wtf! This is awesome, why doesn't AMD make a APU with a Vega GPU like this?
Fals3Agent Memory bandwidth limitation.
Because this isn't an APU, it has a dedicated Vega GPU with 4GB of HBM2.
Exactly, APU's are by nature constrained to sharing the onboard system memory. Although, wouldn't it be interesting for AMD to release CPU's with Vega's integrated graphic cores while sharing like 8GB HBM memory between the cpu and gpu, where 1/8 of the memory is dedicated as high speed cache for the cpu and have it use ddr4 as swap?
Fals3Agent They did
On the
Ryzen 3 2200G
Ryzen 5 2400G
They already do???
I just realized that the logo on the box exactly represents what's inside.
The blue brain is from Intel, but the things you'll see on the display are from Amd with the red eyes
in awe of the size of this lad. absolute unit
Damn that is some nice performance for a such a small form factor, thank you for the review!
It just so happens that a 2560x1600 10.1 inch screen fits almost flush with the motherboard. You could wire a screen up to this, stuff a decent small battery inside, under volt and down clock everything slightly, and put some joycons on the sides to end up with the worlds most powerful handheld game console. Leave the tb3 ports open and you can make a dock with a powerful gpu and instantly overclock the unit for awesome 4k playback on the big screen. It’s basically like the pc version of a switch.
$1000 for the nuc, $1000 for max ram and a 4tb nvme drive for extra storage and small space, $150 for the ips panel, $150 for a battery, and another $250 for a custom enclosure. Seems like the perfect project for a youtuber who has companies throw money at them to send them products.
Im so happy for the honesty here, had discussions about this one, and you nailed the use cases and the price to performance to size, can't say it's unbeatable for sure, but it probably is when considering what it offers, im really tempted to buy one, and even more interesting part is i'm not supporting nvidia and still having the best product proposition.
I just bought the lower end HNK model, to replace an antique HTPC, and couldn't be happier. Virtually silent at idle and media playback, and have still not heard the fan while gaming (full disclosure...my gaming go-to's are titles like Dirt2, HalfLife2 and Portal2). These prior generation games all played at more than acceptable frame rates with enuff rendering features turned on to make 'em pretty...easily beating out the system this replaced.
WAY more than I planned to spend (close to $2000 up here in Canada w/ 500GB 660p SSD/16GB Ram and Win 10 Pro) but price/performance/formfactor value is unmatched. Hell, snap it to the back of a monitor, at it could rival or best a comparably priced iMAc!
I did not expect this to perform this well. A nice surprise.
I hope this concept takes off and gets adopted to replace cruddy SOC prebuilts. I would love to see Lenovo boxes that have this kind of processing power. If the hardware components are souldered to the board, at least one is free to play with the clock speeds.
It'll be interesting to see the driver support for this product down the road. If it gets good support I'll get the next generation NUC. Although this unit is impressive, and I have no complaint about the price, it's too much of a risk making the jump if driver support isn't good.
Time for a hybrid world record. #RIPLTT
I would love to see starcraft 2 performance in some of these benchmarks.
Sooo, I know that this sort of eliminated the convenience and form factor benefits, but I feel that a 120mm aio could work wonders. The mounting holes seem to be in a square shape, so there has to be some bracket that would fit this socket
Really good job on both companies for making a worthy product. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Good review despite clickbait title. This unit poses no serious threat to Nvidia, who doesn't focus on this low end. How much actual market share does this involve anyway? Not much, and you can get pre-built PCS in this price range that perform better.
I really wish more of these types of devices existed. Just, build something similar to a gaming laptop in terms of power, and take away the screen, keyboard, keypad. Then, add more I/O.
WOW! Impressive performance, for such a small package! (And I'm sure you've all heard that before!) It looks like you could use a modified ThreadRipper water block to cool it. (Tell me I'm wrong, or right) This product definitely seems like something to consider, given that it appears to blow away the 2200G and 2400G, and keeps up with lower end discrete graphics. Great review, as always.
Tech Jesus , you are the best! And it's good to see the competitors working together.
Remember that to test AMD APU's it's better to lock the clocks since there's a known issue on many mobos where the gpu clocks goes down to 300-450Mhz, hence the low "mins" (in the 0.1%) vs the GT1030 while avrg and 1% are more or less neck and neck.
liquid metal that bitch. ALso its not unpresidented, just pretend its still ATI :P. I remeber when AMD was team green as they had a green logo etc.
Steve this was an excellent video. I know you're concerned with ROI, but I'd be curious if you'd consider underclocking/undervolting the CPU. I don't think tue system's gaming capability would suffer from the lowered CPU multiplier, but it might help with noise/thermals.
Just curious!
it would be SUPER interesting to see a watercooling solution to this
Interesting. I'd love to see this move forward as a socketed/upgradable formfactor at a lower price. Maybe some economy-of-scale and popularity could make that a reality.
Seems pretty decent. Not sure how to feel about Intel and AMD. It's cool though!
This thing is awesome, I want one!
Really want to do a Hackintosh build with it.
This thing is a monster. Plays games like a mid-range discrete GPU. Priced competitively.
Your idea for using it as an on the road editing pc sounds like a good use case for it
WayStedYou why couldn't they just get a laptop?
D B aren't some 1060 or 480 laptops at the 1200$ price mark?
If multi chip modules would come out as more than just Intel cpu and AMD gpu, this could change the laptop industry a lot, especially if you add more variety from brands instead of mid-range processors. Instead of two dies with two coolers or one cooler with a lot of piping, the mcm die package could cut down on space taken up by cooling, or make cooling better. That pcb is also fairly small, which leaves room for more battery, or thinner systems; I haven't messed around with laptops for awhile, but aren't the pcbs usually around 80% or so of the chassis size?
Great review - thanks
Holy crap, that's one impressive little machine!
Imagine, if this was half the price, it would be a total PC and console killer .i would definitely snag one . Even imagine it wielding a full vega 56, the possibilities will be limitless .
The performance is better than I expected. I wonder how well laptop versions of this will perform. You could use one of these for a basic steam machine, game stream or TV PC it wont blow you away but for something small you could hide behind/mount to a TV or put in that dvd/vcr slot on your TV stand. And in the long run thunderbolt 3 and possible gpu expansion. I did wonder however how well would it work as a secondary machine for a streaming rig linked up to a capture card etc? Not price effective I know but something that size means you wouldn't need the space for two big box PCs if you wanted to render streams on a separate device.
I want that 7770 in the background!
What I really want to see is this thing in an ultrabook form factor. There are a couple laptops on the market now using it (though really only a couple) but they're still fairly large machines...
I really wonder if a more traditional cooling solution as found on gpus with a bigger heatsink and one fan would not be better than this solution with two fans and one long and narrow heat sink solution.
looking forward to your modding creativity
For this price point I don't see why they couldn't make the finstack copper, or even increase the fin density. Copper alone would make a huge difference because it can hold way more heat than aluminum.
It's $ 850 right now on Amazon.
I love for you to do some water cooling testing on this, as well as liquid metal? Might help with the fan speed maybe.
Sweet little 📦 nice to see Intel and AMD running well.
I always wondered what was the next form factor would be.
Something like how atx won over btx.
I don’t know about cpu and gpu combos.
This removes modularity that everyone enjoys with a regular atx/ITX layout.
Maybe a cpu with fully saturated HBM ram?
That would be cool.
I predict aftermarket case lids and cooling solutions for these NUC's
Cool, I am interested in seeing integrated graphics (for laptops mainly)
If you still have the NUC, could you also test power consumption and update the vid/article? This chip is going into a lot of laptops, which makes power consumption quite important.
I think Out of Pandora's Box Thermals would be appropriate here, in line with the mythological origins of the name of this product.
This is the high end for NUC, I'm still waiting for AMD to do a AM4 based small form factor barebones built around APUs.
But did you lower the voltage as much as possible in your OC attempt? CPU undervolting is pretty much mandatory for laptops these days, especially for someone that knows how to overclock. Vega also benefits from undervolting.
Now take that thing and mod / overclock the heck out it. Like add watercooling, hook up to an actual powersupply somehow(doubt that is possible). It would be fun to see how fast that custom gpu can be.
Raja left AMD (offically) ~November 8, 2017 (or that's when it was announced I guess). He had taken a leave of absence from AMD since the Vega launch(?). Does GN have any industry insight into the timeline of the i7/Vega M development? Is 5 months enough time to engineer & produce something like this? Interesting technology for sure
I'm confused. Does this unit not use power? I did check the written review besides watching this, but could not find data on how much power it draws.
Besides that: Good review as always :) ..and it's an interesting little thing. FAR FAR to expensive for me to want it, but i wouldn't mind if it could help push Nvidia around a little ;)
That case for $99 is unreal!
I think we need these 2 company's to work together to bring nvidia back to earth. Its awesome to see these 2 working together
Imagine what can be achieved when 2 power houses really bury the hatchet and make good things together. First glimpse is this!
seems like a solid product. if they could get the price down and focus on high volume this could be a great prodcut but i dont see that happening
its very exciting times for the mini pc industry
This Vega system works pretty well in mobile and APU settings. Very impressive. This little box is putting out some very respectable performance for what it is.. I wasn't expecting this. Gotta give credit to Intel for putting this thing together too, it was really their doing. P.S. ..I just realized I've said something nice about Intel for the first time in a while lol.
This thing would make a killer LAN rig. Intel/AMD are on to something.
If only Intel and AMD started working together...5yrs ago..
We'd have this in every NUC and granny's home..
So did intel use actual thermal paste this time or did the use toothpaste again?
A Brackers One can only hope
This is actually pretty damn impressive
It looks like Red Team and Blue Team finally work together to beat Green Team
I have a few questions for this, maybe a short follow up.
Possible to turn off the vega gpu for a higher clock on cpu? (Using a case and thunderbolt to external gpu).
How easy is it to install hardware, please show :)
And how in this kind of setup with external gpu does it compare to desktop counterparts?
Really curious about those details :)
Thinking about getting one for Lan-Partys :)
Once you unleash.... Unlimited Power!!!
As for mods, I would be curious to see this with a TR4 type cooler (Maybe with Noctua or Enermax)
Holy crap that is a ton of power in such a small form factor, and it's not even expensive
I mean my comp with an FX8350 and 290 cost more than that, and you could probably fit a family of 4 in my computer case (and power draw would be like 5x the amount this draws).
Please mod with liquid metal, remove some plastic for better air flow and upgrade to a larger power brick then see how far you can push the thing.
Awesome device... Just wondering why amd doesn't build this themselves with Vega and their ryzen lineup. What exactly are they gaining with using the Intel cpu over their own? I'm all for the partnership with an awesome product but it feels like they are helping a competitor when they finally have a capable cpu of their own.
it need a noctua air cooler, then it might need no fan.
With the low end Hades Canyon NUC pushing 65W TDP it is a candidate for a custom fanless case, shouldn't be that hard to do and would makes it a very powerful HTPC. Higher end NUC pushing 100W TDP would I think be a little too hard for completely fanless but I suspect someone will prove me wrong