Dealing With Mistakes in FFXIV
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- Many guides focus on exactly what to do to get everything right, but what do you do when things go wrong?
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Music Used:
FFXIV Endwalker - Cradle of Hope
#ffxiv #endwalker
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:06 (1) Vulnerability Build Up
02:55 (2) Being Completely Out of Position
05:39 (3) Cooldown Drifting
08:44 (4) Messed Up Openers and Rotations
11:23 (5) Dealing with Aggro you Shouldn't Have
13:58 Fun Fact - Ігри
![[FFXIV] Five Mistakes Melees Make!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uDjIB-Sf7lw/mqdefault.jpg)
![[FFXIV] Five Mistakes Melees Make!](/img/tr.png)
![[FFXIV] Five Mistakes Mages Make!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T6U_0aiGmlk/mqdefault.jpg)
![[FFXIV] Five Mistakes Healers Make!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h0vBZGWTCq0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[FFXIV] Five Mistakes Ranged DPS Make!](/img/n.gif)
Greed less? What? I don't understand these words together.
"greed less?! No greed more! Only more!" 😂
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Now *THAT* I understand!
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Greeding less means we wipe to Ancient Flare! There's no other way to beat that mechanic than greeding. No other way. Nope.
I've been telling people to ignore one of Ambujams tentacles anyways. The Dot tentacle does almost no damage compared to the vulnerability one, I believe it's designed this way on purpose.
That is an interesting point! Personally, I find as long as you don't get hit by both, it's pretty manageable, but if you can identify the weaker one, that is of course also quite effective!
Had an Ifrit Hard party in roulette that only killed 3 nails before boss jumped away for Hellfire. Thankfully ARR enrage like that aren't executes, so I used Tank LB2 to save the pull. They were still mad cause I "Wasted LB", but it is what it is
That is a weird thing to get mad over! I don't know if it was survivable without tank lb, but the mechanic was failed, so the expectation surely should have been that they were toast! 😅
Good reaction on your part!
@CaetsuChaijiCh In general ARR big attacks are strange, cause I've survived Leviathan's big attack without the aether barrier despite it killing everyone else, though it was almost enough to kill me.
In general, one of the reason I enjoy playing PLD is because I can use Cover to help with mistakes, such as in Mount Ordeals if someone gets Rooted in the wrong spot, or if there's a double buster and other tank dies. Little things that make the game more fun.
Great videos as always!
You forgot the 3rd reason for getting vulnerability stacks, trying to be cool with standing directly on the edge of an attack and misjudging it. But you are just as cool in failure.
Just make sure it looks like you meant to do that! 😂😂😂
It's pretty amazing how if a dps gets aggro running to the tank sometimes isn't their first thought. I was under the impression that was the natural response but I've had people literally try running away and pulling the mob out of provoke range before.
It's quite absurd! I'm guessing they conclude that getting away from the mob is higher priority than getting the mob somewhere you can get rid of it 😅 although often, running away from the mob is best done by running towards the tank anyway! 😅
Just yesterday I accidentaly stole aggro during a Trial because I forgot to turn stance off during my 1 minute burst. The flowchart is 1) resist the urge to type an apology immediately, 2) make sure the boss is turned north again (or whichever direction it should be), 3) finish the burst, 4) finally, Shirk and turn off the stance. In most day-to-day scenarios, who is MT doesn't actually matter, only that the boss is nice and still for the melees, so ensuring that no one is losing out on damage (including yourself!) should come _before_ transfering the aggro back.
This is also true! The priority of how important it is to "fix it" also of course depends on how critical the problem is! In a lot of situations as you said, it isn't catastrophic as long as the boss doesn't start spinning! 😁
There's also some other specific situations where recovering from mistakes requires quick thinking. One particular situation I can always think of is when all healers go down and there's a Red mage or Summoner in the party, if you're the tank, do everything in your power to keep that Rez mage alive until they can rez a healer, if that's out of the picture, 3 out of the 4 tanks do have ways to heal the party to keep them going for a lot longer when down healers, so, take advantage of that, you have no idea how many times using Heart of Corundum on a summoner or a low HP player has saved runs for me.
Very good advice indeed! I do the same in that I put extra care in protecting whoever can raise, if I feel like there might be some deaths incoming! 😁
Maintaining whoever is left if it is possible to overcome the fight with what remains is also great advice for tanks!
I couldn't stop thinking about Bard. Any slight amount of drift makes that job absolutely miserable.
I can see what you mean! Personally I feel dragoon is the closest to compare to bard in this respect, and thinking about it, they're not even close at all!
Regarding using CDs as soon as they become available, it's *usually* the right call, but, at least in cases of encounters where you are familiar with what's coming up, try to be mindful about downtime. For example, if Fight or Flight is available now, but the boss will become untargetable in a few seconds then, depending on how long the boss will remain untargetable, it may be a better choice to hold your CD until the fight resumes. Same with trash mobs in dungeons, in general it's more efficient to use CDs on trash than save them for bosses, but if the pack is about to die in a few seconds it may be a better idea to hold stuff until the next encounter. Some jobs can benefit much more from downtime optimisation than others. A Red Mage can cast Vercure even if healing isn't needed to set up Dualcast. A Dancer can prepare steps. A Black Mage can use Umbral Soul to stock up Umbral Hearts. A Sage can put out a shield to get a Toxikon charge. From my own experience and observing how others play, thinking a few steps ahead of what's currently going on is a great way to improve performance.
This is absolutely true! Using cooldowns on cooldown of course also requires that at least MOST of the cooldown is spent on something useful!
Making the most of downtime is a great tip as well!
A bad enough drift for DRG (downtime or time between fights) will force Nastrond out of alignment, and missing out on Lance Charge, Dragon Sight, and Battle Litany (in addition to the raid buffs) is quite a big deal. I'm not fond of jobs with such strict bursts that never realign well after drifting.
Absolutely agree. And there it can be necessary to take the drift to "fix that", depending on how much fight is left of course! This kind of stuff is also what makes dragoon very difficult for me personally! 😅
While I haven't played XIV since the end of ShB, I can use my WoW experience to suggest one thing;
Practice on target dummies on what to do if your rotation gets out of line. This takes some literal mental gymnastics to do, but imagine a boss fight and how that might mess you up. See how that affects things and go from there, and eventually, you'll know what to do in those situations.
It *would* help if Square actually allowed DPS meters (even an in game *personal only* one) to see how off your damage is when things go south. Unless they changed their stance on that?
I can't remember if XIV has one, but WoW had a "target of target" unit frame, which allows you to see who the enemy is targeting. If XIV has this (i think it does?), this would be very useful for tanks in full party content, especially on bosses that dont really turn when they target someone.
Indeed, practicing rotations on a dummy is a great idea 😊 if you are practicing a particular fight you could also absolutely try and practice it against a dummy in such a way as long as you know when the movement is! 😊
No the stance on third party tools has not changed, it's still a difficult subject 😅
Yes the target bar always also shows who your target is targeting 😁
I usually don't comment on the videos before I'm done. But what was said it's about 2 minutes and 45 seconds in is so important. I've been in a lot of fights where I've just had to stop doing damage just to check out how a mechanic work. Is healing twintania the first time in shb i feel bad for that duty finder bc they carried me dps wise lol
Human words?! What do I look like, a human word machine?!
😂 Alternatively you can try machine words if it fails! 😂
First of all, Hello. Been subscribed for a few months, but first time commenting. Your job guides have been extremely helpful for me as I play.
I actually just witnessed a similar situation to the last point in the video earlier this week: *As an off-Tank, be ready to step up and be Main Tank when the MT goes down.*
I was working on my ARR relic weapon for WAR earlier this week and I queued into the Navel (Hard), in order to do the last step for the base zodiac weapon.
There was another WAR in the party who said they wanted to try and main-tank the fight, but admitted that they were unfamiliar with the hard version of the trial. I don't usually volunteer to be MT for 8-man trials, because the other tank usually has their tank stance on before we even begin, but I knew I had to be ready to step up.
Unfortunately, I don't think the MT was using defensives very much (because again, they said they were unfamiliar w/ the trial) and they died to one of the raid-wide AoEs. When I saw that, I quickly turned on my tank stance and grabbed aggro before Titan started attacking any of the DPS. I think they must have been embarrassed about dying, because as soon as they got back up, they turned off their tank stance and let me MT the rest of the fight.
We got through it, but the other WAR was so apologetic for dying earlier, but I assured them it was alright, mistakes happen and we still won.
I'm sure this sort of situation happens more often in high-end content, but this goes to show that this type of mistake can happen in any kind of Duty.
Thank you for the story! 😊
I think you both handled it perfectly with what you had (minus the mitigation thing on the other tank but I'll get to that!)
Having the tank stance turned on as a sign of willingness to main tank is great. The other tank both highlighting their uncertainty, but also offering to main tank let's you know to be ready to catch them.
Titan is quite awkward to tank because he has no warning on his tankbusters, so the best you can do is guess, or just use defensive cooldowns every so often and hope 😅 a less experienced tank may simply stand and wait for the sign that never comes!
In regards to the tank switch itself, it is, in my opinion at least, good manners to let the off tank permanently take over if you die as the main tank (unless something requires the switch back). So it is possible the other tank simply let you take the reins after their mistake for that reason as well! 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Thank you for the compliments. And yeah, thinking back on it, I think the reason that the other tank wasn't using their defensives that much was because, like you said, they might have been waiting for the markers that never came. I was cycling my defensives while OT'ing out of habit, and as it was happening, I was thinking, "Wow, these attacks kind of hurt," and no doubt the MT going down made the healers a bit nervous.
There's actually a little more to this story: After whe cleared the DPS check, at one point some of the other party members got caught out of postion (Point #2 in the video) on some of the AoE's and only myself (who at this point was still MT'ing), the two healers and one of the other DPS was up, everyone else was down. I knew the healers would then have to stop attacking to get everyone back up, so it was just myself and the other DPS slowly chipping away at Titan while the healers got to work.
We didn't have RDM in the party to help rez, but once everyone was up, everything was under control. So, yeah definelty not the cleanest run of The Navel (Hard) I've done, but a clear is a clear at the end of the day, and I feel like I learned a few things about tanking that will be useful in the future.
@@MightyEagle616Only Summoner can res at level 50, as Red Mage doesn't get their res until somewhere mid Stormblood level. Something to remember ^w^
@@EnternodeCSOh yeah that's right, I keep forgetting SMN can do that. I don't have RDM unlocked yet, so I didn't know that..My bad. 😅
We didn't have a SMN in the party either, so the healers still had to work harder to get everyone back up.
When I OT something, I get to 2 on the aggro list, and then turn off my stance, so that if tank goes down, it comes to me immediately.
As a Red Mage main, I have learned to essentially be ready to jump in whenever needed in case of mistakes being made, especially if I notice that the healer(s) doesn't appear to be familiar with the content. Just like in the case of an off tank suddenly needing to jump in if the main tank goes down, you have the tools in your kit for a reason so while it's not really my "job" as a DPS, I feel like it IS part of my "job" as a Red Mage. Heck, if they're gonna penalize us for having a rez in our kit we might as well use it lol
Indeed! In most content, it is also not really a significant loss for a red mage to offer to raise, which could save the healers some stress if they already feel stretched thin! 😁
Perfect timing. I am trying to learn BLM and I just realized I am trying too hard to be perfect. I was on the edge of giving up on the job but your vid changed my mind :)
Thank you!
I'm glad to hear that! Remember, just try your best, and honestly, being willing to get fancy with it at risk of being imperfect can also help you explore what else you can do, which can make you a better BLM! 😁
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I actually already noticed my creativity to help me not to drop enochian by also not loosing too much DMG :D
BLMs are also practically required to make it up as they go during some phases and mechanics. Perfecting BLM is less about knowing the class in and out and more about knowing the fight well enough that you can anticipate when you'll have to adapt your rotation and plan ahead.
So yeah, don't try to be perfect when learning BLM, just do your best and soak it in when you do manage to do a fight perfectly ^^
Minimizing AOE overlaps is a concept many people have trouble with. I tell my friends "only get hit by 1" as vuln stack is almost nothing vs making the fight take longer due to rez sickness
Indeed! If you gotta greed, at least minimize the damage! 😅 And if things do go wrong, minimize the damage! 😁
Exactly because weakness and a raise is so costly!
Alternatively, if you're me in Eden and you get Ramuh as SCH, prepare to tank as a healer. Had a moment with me spamming Adlo, Recitation + Excog, and Emergency Tactics while waiting for Swiftcast to come back up. I was absurdly lucky and got Catalyze in time to eat the tank buster. My blood was pumping for a bit, needless to say.
Now that is creative thinking! I think most healers would just had gone "welp" in that situation and wiped 😅
Sometimes when I *know* I'm going to die (doom, wrong spot with no correction, etc) and I'm playing a resource oriented job, I'll burn all the resources I can (not CD's!) before I go down so at least some dps is not lost. DNC, for example, is easy to spam feathers and saber dance very quickly before you die.
That is a pretty good idea, since those resources would just get lost otherwise! 😁
LMAO at the Narnia quips XD "maybe you see Aslan pass by'
If you do end up dead, it helps a lot not to mindlessly accept the res and then start attacking again; rather see if it might be a safe time to accept, and once you're up again, take a moment to think whether you should restart your rotation. The buff you get when ressed that makes you invulnerable can be a good tool to use to survive an outgoing raidwide for example.
The crux is that this is easier to assess the better you know the fight, but the better you know the fight the less likely you are to die in the first place.
Very good tip as well! Do make sure to "try and dodge" while the ress invuln lasts, just don't use sprint or any other action to do so!
Reason I suggest still dodging is because sometimes the attacks ignore your invulnerability, especially true with knockbacks! Most of this can of course be avoided by choosing your spot as you said too!
re: 3 and 4, I'd argue that, depending on the kind of mistake, it can be better to deliberately recover your rotation even if you have to take a damage loss to do so. Not over the course of the pull/duty of course, but in the long term.
If it's due to an avoidable mistake (on your part), practicing what to do when it happens is less valuable than practicing what to do when it doesn't and how not to make it in the first place. And the short-term damage loss only matters in a pull where enrage is the only thing people are dying to, while muscle memory is a damage buff that carries over to future duties
Of course knowing how to improvise is valuable (and fun!), but you want to save that for cleaning up the shenanigans you think you *can't* consistently prevent, not the ones you think you *can*
That is a very good addition, and I very much agree. If you mess up your rotation due to a mistake on your part on a hard fight on pull 13 or 100 or whatever, then freestyling it may just make this pull completely worthless in terms of learning, where if you had let the DPS loss be, you could have recovered!
It's not optimal, but when my cooldowns drift, I just let them drift until they're back in line with burst windows again. However, this only applies if I'm expecting a burst window. Plenty of times where everyone's buffs have drifted or don't exist in the first place due to composition. In that case, pretty much everything is "use on cooldown". There's also always the hope that a transition phase realigns them naturally.
There's that, and one other thing that can also sometimes make it worth drifting, is that if you are very deep in muscle memory in a really hard fight, suddenly having to freestyle it can be detrimental, so the damage loss from drifting might just be worth taking in that situation too! 😅
Best advice I can give for duty finder in general: if you know you're not making mistakes, it never hurts to check to see if someone else is! A well timed Rescue, Provoke, Swiftcast Resurrection (Sum/Rdm), or other raid buff such as Shield Samba/Improvisation can save a run! And besides, you'll feel like a hero. :3
Absolutely! Once you are safe yourself, trying to cover others is a great way to secure the group as a whole! 😊
I loike that funny lion Aslan, keeps telling me things when I drop off the edge like "remember who you aaaaaaare" and "Simbaaaaaa."
Meanwhile over in the lion King, featuring an extremely confused simba 😂
3:00 Realize you are out of posistion, Lie down, Accept your fate, Prepare for the consequences of your actions, Open your eyes. Realize you somehow survived but are now out of posistion for the next thing.. lie down.. accept your fate... get ressed by your healer.
... Realize you got ressed right where the next mechanic happens, pray for the raise invuln to protect you - it doesn't, its a knockback
Errare humanum est, persevare diabolicum est! To err is human, it is persevering in your mistakes without thinking about them or taking accountability that becomes a problem
That is very accurate! I suppose something I left unmentioned is of course to learn from mistakes! 😁
I think you forgot to mention the more obvious mistake (albeit it can be considered drifting): getting K.O'd and losing resources upon being raised.
I've seen enough of players getting knocked out in raid during burst (probably concentrating on the rotations), getting up and then doing only 1-2-3, saving cooldowns for next burst/because of weakness debuff.
Also I'd add that there are specific fights that might trick you to use your cd's only for boss to transition (Thalea 3), but, luckily, they are few.
ed: oh, and triple-quad-penta-weave.
Oh those are good ones as well! The boss that leaves right as the burst comes up is particularly annoying!
For the one about being way out of position, I would also note: Don't panic. In higher level content, or even in some 4.0 and 5.0 Normal/Alliance Raids, if you are in the wrong place with a marker you can get other people killed. Mechanics don't happen instantly, so stop, assess the damage that will happen, and commit to the *least* damage possible, even if that means killing one or more party members because that prevents a wipe (keeps last healer alive, etc.).
For the one about suddenly having aggro, a corollary would be "If you suddenly have a marker you are not supposed to, resolve it in a way that minimizes the damage." If you wind up with a tank buster AOE as a DPS, it's best to just eat it away from the group so only you die. If you wind up with two stack markers and the group isn't split properly, best that only one person dies than two people.
A very good addendum! Just in general: when things go wrong, try to minimize the resulting damage! 😁 Thank you!
my thing is with monk, it's like when I play at first I get it, I got it, but then 2 minutes later I do not know what to do, it's like I understand the class, I understand what to do, but social anxiety sets in, and plus I'm a melee
I can't stand #4. I always feel so bad, and a lot of the time I apologize to my party. Grand majority of the time, they didn't even notice, or if they did, they don't care, but man... I still feel bad. Never wanna slow down a run and be a burden to my team.
Yeah I know the feeling! It might not be obvious in most content for other players, but you know everything's in ruins 😔
It might not be a bad idea to go over what a stack marker is and how to deal with it, or just what different mechanic indicators are and how to deal with them. I've literally done Seat of Sacrifice before with people who don't know what a stack marker is and what to do with it and run away from the group and die.
You'll be shocked, but I actually made a video going over exactly those kinds of things 😊
The problem in those kinds of situations is sometimes that the player doesn't know that they need to know it, so even if there's all the teaching material they could ever need out there, they won't see it! So in case of the stack marker, I think it is often either learned by guessing, or by someone else telling you! 😁 It would be surprising for someone in SoS to not know what a stack marker is given how many stack markers they'll meet before that point though, but I guess it is possible!
Here is the link to that video: ua-cam.com/video/dD0V65O83fc/v-deo.htmlsi=NF856Vel-WJb30UM
I've been venturing into tanking as of today, trying my hand at Dark Knight, the rotation is pretty simple. It's the positioning that I have issues with, my wife has been TRYING to teach me about positioning while I heal. It's a whole other experience for me 😅
EDIT: I actually started using Sage in 4 player dungeons, and started using AST in raids. Love how much more DPS I put out as Sage.
The good news is that it sounds like you aren't afraid of a challenge! 😁 The rest will come with practice!
I prefer to do new content on healer personally, as that way I don't even have a rotation to worry about!
And you're ranged! It's certainly not a bad idea! 😁
Dying is the best part of ff14,Never feel bad for dying or messing up,unless youre trolling,we all gotta learn some how
I've been playing RDM more lately and in dungeons when the tank dies and I get aggro on everything, I try to put things to sleep and pick one off at a time while I wait for the tank to get back up.
That is a pretty good idea! I assume this is also after raising the tank, of course in dungeons where you have access to that! 😁
@@CaetsuChaijiCh it was Dzaemel Darkhold, so no access, but I've kept people up enough with vercure/verraise spam until healers were steady to get us back from a wipe in a trial
I'm almost done with Coils and as a DPS I tend to get tunnel vision about mechanics and end up getting in the way and causing more problems. Mechanics where you can't stand near others is tough for me. It's hard when you try to not make mistakes, but end up causing other ones!
Oooh I know that feeling! See one thing you need to react to, over correct and you find yourself right in the middle of somewhere you absolutely shouldn't be! 😅
Totally! And also, thanks for all your guides and everything. They have helped me so much; you do god's work!@@CaetsuChaijiCh
As a tank, #5 is huge. If I lose aggro on a single mob in the middle of pulling a w2w pull, my first action is to try and Provoke the mob that I lost while still running. But I can't do that if the mob is out of Provoke's range, and they're only usually ever out of range if the DPS/healer that they're attacking is standing still to fight them off rather than running after me.
I'll admit it's my fault that I lost aggro and you've got a mob attacking you. But I want to remedy my mistake, and I'll need you to help me help you.
As long as it is resolved well, I feel that a dps or healer taking aggro for a bit is perfectly fine! (in a dungeon context usually!!) The big problem as you said, is if they start getting weird about it! 😊
Sleep is also a great way to save your party if the tank dies to trash mobs. So long as nobody does an AOE, you can single a target as the tank revives
Not repose, though. That's just a terrible spell you only need for one role quest
I mean repose can also be used to interrupt a mob or stop just one mob so depending on context maybe it's better than nothing? 😂
@@CaetsuChaijiCh True, anything is better than nothing, though it's far from the first option I'd choose.
I feel like dealing with mistakes is a bit of a learned skill in itself, and requires having to have made lots of mistakes first to get there.
Oh of course, but getting some tips on what to do in such situations, and some thoughts can help with reducing the length of that journey itself! But it is certainly a skill 😊
Just like understanding what is right to do to fix your rotation when you mess up is a lot about understanding the job itself at a deeper level usually! 😁
@@CaetsuChaijiChDefinitely, it's one of the reasons I kind of love it when things start to go sideways cause...the opportunities to learn, or atleast see if you have learned enough for it has come to your doorstep when it happens
@@bluefish239 I'm a sprout healer and I absolutely love it when people are making mistakes (in dungeons anyway) and we get a little chaos. It gives me opportunities to learn how to react in emergencies and keeps things interesting. To be fair, I'm doing the level 50 content for a while until I figure out which healer I like the most.
@@vewyscawymonsta It's definitely a good idea to try them all out and learn how they work, that way when you start having more content where you have a partner healer you'll have an idea of how to work with them.
I personally went out of my way to also pick out a class for both types of healers. My main is Scholar, but both my friends play Sage as their main healing class, so I picked up Astro to have a pure healer as well.
For point 1: As a higher level player, vuln stacks generally aren't that big of a problem as long as you can account for the incoming damage somehow. I regularly eat vuln stacks in more casual content if it means I maintain uptime and can prevent cooldown drift. That said, if I'm going to do this, I tend to save personals to mitigate the damage or otherwise help the healers keep me healthy. For example, on MNK in Lunar Subterrane, for Durante's big AoE cleave towards the end of the fight, it's often easier to just pop Riddle of Earth and eat the vulns than it is to try and roll my GCD while moving out of melee range.
On a related notes: in Ultimates, Damage Downs don't accumulate and tend to be more of a delayed death sentence that ensure you still see prog, even if you will definitely see the boss's enrage. They also tend to be minutes long, so the best way to "correct" a damage down is to kill yourself and communicate with the healers to make sure they get you up as soon as possible. This is especially true in TOP where the damage downs reduce your damage by 90% and last like 3 minutes. It's better to die and eat the 50% DD from weakness than stay up and doing only 10% of your possible damage output.
Eating mechs also came up in P9S where one of the mechs only gives a kind of nasty DoT instead of a DD, so sometimes it ended up being better to ignore the tells and focus on doing the mech that would give a DD and just eat the DoT with personals.
Very good details to add Indeed! Of course, it might be a good idea to make sure you know whether it is safe (or the "better option") before taking a mechanic to the face on the regular. This is of course done by being hit and going "hey wait a minute, I didn't even feel that!" a lot of the time! 😂
Bro....I deleted my toon to make a new just so I don't have to spawn in Gridania from data center travel😢yeah I uhhh no idea. Now I gotta do msq again...and everything else. 😒
That seems a bit excessive 😕 you could try and contact support and see if they can do anything if you changed your mind 😔
nice lil toxic tip at the end there lol
I thought it was funny because I so often see people claiming they can do this move to mess with the dps or healers, but it takes so much more from the healer or dps to even make it happen in the first place 😂
@@CaetsuChaijiCh haha if the dps is doing really really well and you wanna bring them down
You need to do a comedy I feel….
That would be excellent! If only I could be funny all the time! 😂