Well lets see, Lizzie lied about where she was when it happened, she lied about being in the barn, she lied about reading a magazine in the kitchen, she lied about her stepmother getting a note and going out, she tried to get Bridget to leave the house, she burned a dress right after the murder, she tried to buy poison a week before the murders, and she hated her stepmother. How could anyone think she didnt do it?
The one thing that sticks in my mind is when Lizzie was asked"did you kill your parents" she did not say No!! She said "I am innocent" and when asked "did you kill your mother" she just said "she is not my mother"
Yes.... that is an odd statement to make at the time. I believe it speaks to the mindset and interpretation one has of the words used. People can and have, made a distinction between 'murder' and 'kill' , so one wonders if this is how they justify to themselves the actions they committed. I know of certain religious people who would argue that their interpretation of it comes from the bible (!)...thou shalt not kill --- not thou shalt not murder'.... makes you think doesn't it?
If my stepmother was murdered and someone asked me if I killed my mother (who died naturally), I would say no. They would have to ask me if I killed my stepmother. My stepmother is not my mother. She is my stepmother. That is an important thing to me and I do not regard my stepmother as my mother, as she did not raise me.
With all respect this is not evidence at all, you can't in hindsight look at how someone phrased something and then say that proves a theory. People say all kinds of things all kinds of ways and none of it really means much, evidence means much.
Based on the injuries, it was a crime of rage. Whoever killed them, extremely hated them, especially the father. It takes rage to butcher specifically a face area.
@@earsmusic2229 No, not at all. Crimes of passion lack planning, and occur at the spur of the moment. This one, seems to be well planned and seems to be motivated mostly by long lasting hate (multiple cut injuries to face area).
I think Lizzie Borden hated her father and Andrew Borden was so cheap and he had the money to live and she hated him for that and she hated her stepmother Abby and she figured that maybe that Abby wanted Andrew's money. I went to the Lizzie Borden home and it is 100% haunted. Lizzie killed her stepmother Abby and then Andrew and screamed for Bridget to come downstairs and she said "Bridget, come quick someone's killed Father and she was good by acting in a panic and she was a shoplifter. Lizzie was a church goer and she taught Sunday school children and became a murderer. She burnt the dress that she killed Abby and her father she burnt it. Lizzie had this planned all out. Bridget Sullivan left Fall River and she moved to Montana and Emma Borden left Fall River after Lizzie Borden got a house on the hill and she got what she wanted and Lizzie Borden lived her life and she died. I think Lizzie Borden killed her father and her stepmother. I don't know what took her so long to kill her father and stepmother but she planned it all out.
Its always bothered me how it could have been possible for lizzie to have changed clothing,( women wore a lot of layers then and her shoes, stockins, petticoats would have blood stain) washed the blood splatters from her hair and skin,( without running water in the house) restyled her hair (wouldnt it have been wet?) And hid the hatchet...in such a short period of time while the maid napped...also, if she killed them an hour or more apart, she'd have to have cleaned herself up between murders. Sent Bridget to take a nap, greet her father, kill him, and clean up again...not realistic.
She wore the bloodsoaked coat found folded up under Andrews head. It's in crime scene photo. It was described ad very warm day, too hot for a coat. And a famously frugal man using an expensive item like a coat as a cushion?
@@sarahholland2600 my uncle was extremely frugal, and he would never have taken one of his coats, or jackets to use as a pillow for a nap. He would not want to ruin the material.
I’ve been watching a lot of UA-cam’s lately on Lizzie. Your’s is by far the most thoroughly researched and informational. I just learned so many new interesting facts. Thank you for this video
I got into this Case after the ripper business - there is suff here were it's handed down proof like Lizzie being a Shop Lifter a Risk Taker - Andrew Bordon being so tight as to be Eating the same meal 4 days running - They did have a an ice box - ìts a very strange case - but ýeah she Probably did it so justice was served at the time .
@@jamescorlett5272 he left out Lizzie being drugged multiple times on the scene, and who knows how many times during the investigation. She the most likely suspect, but there are so many buts in this case and I like that he brought a lot of them up.
@America Jones it's hard to see beyond Lizzie as the murderer or letting Someboðy else in to do the business erm uncle John what the fu*k very strange - I can't help but Feel he could well have provided the hit man - it's hard to picture Lizzie giving those whacks but not impossible - yeah it's odd Lizzie was given what is more or less heroin - that to me is suspicious and could and was used to cover some things she later said - I don't believe we really know the relationship between the Doctor and Lizzie ? - he's supposed to have burnt a note - Why Did she make up ? the story of the mother having to go out ? - for me if that's not true which it seems not to be poor Lizzie was Guilty and got very Lucky .
@@jamescorlett5272 that whole ladder and curtains thing , could have been the perfect device . An in/out route if you will, as well a perfectly convenient way to get washed up in a bucket and haul out all evidence. Emma, uncle and Lizzie all could of colluded for multiple known and unknown reasons. I’ve always felt, that if Bridgette was complicit, it wasn’t by choice. What choice would a poor Irish maid have had ? Who would’ve believed her vs local prominent figures.
@America Jones have you seen I think it's named Lizzie Bordon the new evidence it's in about 8 parts and with out wanting to spoil it for ya America Jones it suggests that the murderer was the first man on the scene - plausible . yeah a ladder in the right place the door key just sitting there - Question is Who's climbing that ladder ? If that's the way things went down ( or rather up ) .
In Lizzie's defense: The reason for her seemingly conflicting answers at the inquest might be that they had her heavily sedated for some time after the murders.
Also, what difference did it make if she remembered exactly what she was doing at that moment? It was not a notable time. Ask me what I was doing at some unimportant time in my day, I won’t be sure, either.
I totally agree... Just imagine being on that many drugs, the doses she was receiving was ALOT also. The Dr said he would double her doses, so yes no way she could have been able to handle all that and function normally....
Some interesting new facts that I didn't know before. I don't think she used a hatchet because the wounds on Abby's head don't look like hatchet wounds at all. According to a show I saw on you tube called Lizzie Borden"s weapon the wounds on Abby's head match up nicely with a flat iron like the one she supposedly used to iron handkerchiefs that morning. She would have had plenty of time to clean herself off afterwards. As for her father,you will note his body was found with his top coat partially under his head. Now I don't think he would have wanted to soil his everyday coat using it for a pillow when a small cushion or the armrest would do just as well. No, he hung up his coat as usual and laid down to rest. A little later Lizzie put on his large coat over her dress and killed him with the iron,took off his coat and shoved it under his head. Next all she had to do was wash off her hand and the iron and replace it on the stove. Now the murder weapon is hidden in plain sight.
In those days, without t.v., internet, social media, movie theatres, or really any kind of recreation besides books and doing chore work or sewing, Lizzie would have had plenty of time on her hands to come up with a very careful and well thought out murder plan. She didn't do it with intent to ever got caught.
It appears from the house diagram that there is no hallway connecting the rooms. You would have to go through one bedroom to get to another. No privacy it seems.
It was customary back then for the dead to remain in the home until prepared for burial... usually a volunteer and friend of family sat with the corpse.
Back then they didn't outsource death like we do now. When people were sick, they would usually die at home. Old people also died at home. No retirement homes back then. People were more familiar and more comfortable dealing with death and the dead back then. It freaks us out but not people back then. And everyone was born in the home too back then.
My mother-in-law died of a stroke several weeks after her shot. She didn't die right away, but was paralyzed and it was her wish to die at home surrounded by all of us. The hospital never would have allowed us to be with her.
In the movie 1975 with Elizabeth Montgomery Emma said," I don't like it when you are like this, I am going to visit some friends in Fair Haven." Lizzie replied, yes you go to Fair Haven. Emma had to know it was Lizzie from the get go. I believe the Step Mother was trying to convince Mr. Borden to change his will.
Re: The Borden girls calling the maid Maggie, rather than her true name, Bridget. As far back as Great Britain, this was considered the privilege of rank. I understand it was fairly common for a master or mistress to refer to their servant by a name which they liked or which was easy for them to remember.
@@TheBerkeleyBeauty Well, in its day it wasn't a big deal. Taking things out of chronological context can make them seem worse than they were then. People will refer to a maintenance worker as a "handyman" today, without asking about their name but most would not take offense as none is intended.
It's a sign of ownership. In the Bible, when a person was chosen for a special purpose they were renamed. They were the property of their God. When a family gets a pet the children fight over the right to name the animal. They sense that naming the pet makes it belong more to the child who chose the name.
At 28:08 mention is made of Andrew wearing his congress boots, though Lizzie had claimed to have helped him put on slippers. In a contemporary news article it was reported that people present had put the boots onto Andrew's feet before the picture was taken. It was felt that showing him in stocking feet--as was reported in this article--would have been undignified! Just because a newspaper article says something, does not make it true. Maybe it is and maybe it is not. It is another sliver of information that might support Lizzie's account of her last interaction with her father.
@@stephanielekas583 There was no will and no indication that a will had ever been made. Because it was determined that Mrs. Borden died first, everything went to Emma, the oldest offspring. She voluntarily split the estate with her sister. Lizzie would not have directly benefited from the death of her father. Of course conspiracy theories can be floated about the sisters working together or whatever. I personally do not believe money was the motive. That said, some sources claim that Mr. Borden was going to transfer a farm to his wife and that could have been a source of strife.
Mention is made of Andrew wearing his Congress boots, thought Lizzie had claimed to have helped him put on slippers. In a contemporary news article it was reported that people present had put the boots onto Andrews feet before the picture was taken. It felt that showing him in stocking feet as was reported in this article would have been undignified! Just because a newpar
Very interesting , my simple view is there must have been some collusion going on, for only one person to commit the crimes would surely have been almost impossible and risky with Lizzie and the maid in the house
My best friend and her hubby spent the night in the murder room..She said she kept waking up, and getting scared because there was a mannequin standing in the corner of the room..It had a costume on it that Elizabeth Montgomery wore in a movie about Lizzie Borden..She also said that they had the same type of breakfast that the Borden's had on their last day ..I know she was expecting to hear chains,and walking but she said nothing happened that could not be explained,and she highly recommended that I check it out..
Just because Lizzy looks to be the most obvious suspect in the matter; no one has proven that she did in fact do it. There could be any number of suspects. Including her Uncle. Lot of players. What if when we reach the other side we find she did not do it but her odd behavior simply made it look that way?
@@michellegussow As a serious researcher, I have thought the most defensible answer I can offer is that I do not believe Lizzie killed anyone. Then we are left with, did she know?, etc. A while back a person on the internet claimed to have seen legal papers pertaining to the case which will not be made public. I was impressed with his responses to some of my questions and ideas. He said Lizzie was innocent and to defend that position. Anything can be said by anyone online. I am not totally ignorant but it was a very interesting conversation. Arguments in part for Lizzie's guilt have to do with the small, narrow construction of the house. How could an intruder enter and commit murder and Lizzie be unaware? For one thing, she spent part of the morning in the "cellar", or what we now call a basement, dealing with her laundry, etc. According to testimony, the side screen door was unlatched in case Bridget the maid needed to get inside for water or implements for the window washing. As far as being aware of people moving around in the house, there were multiple persons in the household so I would think it normal to tune out the sounds of normal movements. Those are interesting points to ponder.
@@annalisette5897 even more interesting...I lived in a two family in New Bedford, MA (15 minutes away) in a house that was about the same age as the Borden home. There was a family that lived downstairs with 2 young children. I never heard anything from downstairs. I recall one day apologizing for running the vacuum at 11pm...they claimed they heard nothing.
There was no blood or a blood trail to where she would have to clean up. With an old fashion water pump. No blood trail. , No one asked if the maid had to open the licked door to go across the street or for help. That would answer a bug question
We will never know who truly did it . All we know is that Lizzie was beautiful from her pictures . I really admire her for leaving her fortune to animal welfare .
Beauty has nothing to do with innocence or the love of animals. In the later part of her life, all she had was her love of animals; it's not surprising that she had an affinity with animals considering they love unconditionally.
12:58 it is disrespectful especially to modern sensibilities, but calling a servant by another name wasn't something the sisters invented, it was a tradition in some upper class homes, I was aware of that tradition in England but it seems from this it was also done in America. It was most certainly disrespectful, but disrespect towards servants was not at all unusual. Probably can't single the sisters out just for that.
Oddly enough I read the trace of the Viscilla AXE murderer’s , believed to being disguised as a traveling minister, led a path that placed him in the area of the Borden’s town at the time of their deaths. Has this possibility been investigated?
Interesting. I know about both cases but never considered they could be connected. They’re far apart in distance (Massachusetts and Iowa) and twenty years apart in time (1892 and 1912). And I think the Borden murders were PERSONAL, not committed by a crazy stranger.
No, he was actually invited to come back for lunch. That's why I don't think what he did by going out back and eating pears is considered "odd behavior." I don't think I'd eat mutton with broth going on 5 days even IF I had an icebox. He was probably being sneaky eating them so hiss belly would already be full.
He never financially benefitted from the killings, however. Neither Lizzie nor Emma gave him any money. Plus, he already had money of his own. One thing not brought up here was that there was a rumor going around that Andrew Borden had molested Lizzie as a child, which might be why she didn't like men. Maybe the uncle found out about it from Lizzie and did at the very least, helped to plot the murders to get his nieces away from their abuser. ???
@@susanmccormick6022 I only heard Lizzie...and he apparently always made it clear that she was his favorite. Molesters tend to do that sometimes...molest one child and leave the rest alone. Not always of course, but I've heard the 'experts' claim she might have been molested. They never mentioned Emma.
Reminds me of the Jonbenet Ramsay murder case, given the questionable claims by *witnesses* of strangers and outsiders being near or in the house who could have committed the crime.
Nothing here I haven’t heard before, but that’s precisely why I appreciate it: the presenter gives “just the facts” and doesn’t posit some nutty theory.
If da hatchet don't fit; you must aquit! A made for tv was made in 1975 that starred Elizabeth Montgomery as Lizzie Borden and Fritz Weaver as her father. The sister was played by Katherine Helmond. I remember watching it as a boy. The plot includes a vague hint that Lizzie was sexually abused by her father. Her real mother had died when Lizzie was very young.
I remember seeing a ballet based on Lizzie Borden, “Fall River Legend” written by Agnes De Mille, niece of Cecil B. De Mille (director whose films earned the moniker “a cast of thousand” due to his use of thousands of extras.).
Great presentation, Mr. Daley. I have read one theory that the Maid was aware Lizzie did it and kept quiet, for whatever reason. It would have been difficult for her to have been that close in proximity and been unaware what had transpired-or certainly she had to have very strong suspicions.
I heard the maid who had been pretty penniless prior to everything, after court disappeared and when she next popped up she owned her own house and land. So she could have been paid off to keep quiet
@@PattyMarshall-l8v Bridgett was washing windows outside when Abbie was killed, it's pretty hard to believe she didn't hear something. The massive bludgeoning death had to create a fair amount of noise. Bridgett laid down upstairs for awhile when Andrew Borden was killed, but she was only up there for a short while and I doubt she fell into such a deep sleep she couldn't hear something.
Oh I believe she did it. She got lucky when her interrogation couldn't be used because of no attorney present. I think she likely stripped down to minimum clothing before committing the murders to prevent blood stained clothes. It was much easier to commit murder back then with forensics being so unevolved.
Agree. Also she had a motive, her father was frugal and she wanted the high life. A stranger or even another family member coming in and doing is so far fetched to me. It was her. They just back then couldn't believe a woman was capable of this. They are.
Very well presented. Thank you. Ive heard the Lizzy Borden story ay least a 100 times. Lol. But this was very interesting and gave fresh ideas to an old case.
It was long rumored that Lizzie was lesbian, in fact notes made in Bridgets diary at the time indicate a relationship between Lizzie and Bridget. Police noted several looks between Lizzie and Bridget when police arrived. Bridget also received a mysterious inheritance a few years later which allowed her to return to Ireland. Bridget was Lizzies accomplice during the murders.
There probably wasn't even a known term for lesbian in 1892. That rumor started in the 1990's. Emma left no diary. Bridget returned to Ireland when her father died, stood for a couple of months and returned to the USA. She married a man whose last name also happened to be Sullivan. She lived and died in Montana.
I do know of the rumor of being a lesbian. She had a very close relationship with an actress - which if I remember correctly, was a reason for the sisters having broken off communication with each other the last years of their lives. Emma did not approve of Lizzie's association with these 'artistic' friends.
Thankyou Mr. Daley, I loved your presentation of the case of Lizzie Borden . Lots of detailed information then & now. The homes being bread & breakfast Inn Tours too. I also watched the 1975 movie with Elizabeth Montgomery again as I did as a teen. I'm 62 and this movie still haunts me.😊❤🙏✌
I saw the movie back in 1975 too. I also visited the area several years ago. My grandparents lived in the same neighborhood when they first came to the US, but that was some time after the murders. That house is creepy.
Back then, dresses were far more expensive than they are now, and standard practice was to re-fashion them when they got torn, damaged etc. and even the wealthy did that. Or they passed them on to staff or the poor. So it is highly unlikely that someone would burn a brand new dress just because it "brushed against some wet paint". (Unless the entire dress got covered with the whole can, that is- which is also highly unlikely). I'm surprised the prosecution didn't raise that issue for the jury to consider. But maybe an all-male legal team and jury wouldn't have thought much about it.
True but she did want a new dress once in a year or two( which her dad could afford- and did afford for said step mom- plus having “ monthly period” blood is embarrassing- especially for the rich Borden’s-.to be obvious on her dress).
In current time, why don’t the owners of the house restore the backyard and remove the asphalt, during the restoration a X-ray scan of the yard could be preformed, to see what’s buried, if anything. Why isn’t there an investigation of the whole house?
The house is a bed and breakfast. There would be no point or justification for the expense of digging up the yard, the pipes, etc. They found an axe, and the measurements of it did fit the cut marks in the skulls.
@@lilyg5304 thanks for the info. I still think the backyard should be restored to the way it was back in the day of when the murders took place. A paved backyard is tacky.
@@jf9488 Totally agree. I’m horrified by that paved parking lot where the beautiful backyard once was. Ghastly. The gift shop currently operating in the house also looks to be tacky as hell.
I participated in a mock trial play once. There were about 30 of us in the audience and we were the trial's jury. We were allowed to ask questions. We found her guilty.
@@susanmccormick6022 What? Trial was pure entertainment. It was a group of actors that perform plays of re-enactments of famous trials. The nature of which was obviously limiting the timeframe, ~2 hrs. What grounds etc? Approx 30 people with a variety of backgrounds participated, the audience was the jury. As I remember it was only a few people 2 or 3 that thought she was innocent. The rest of us sent her off to jail. It was nothing but pure entertainment. I am.located within 50 miles of the original crime. Here we are over 100 years after the fact and she was then guilt, in the eyes of the audience.
@@judalu9557 My mother used to be a sort-of amateur historian on the Borden case. She loved every aspect of it. For December, 2017, my gift to them was an overnight stay at the Lizzie Borden House & Museum (before it closed and was sold) which included an evening seance, full tour and lovely breakfast the next day. They loved it.
@@dougtaylor2803 The law firm that represented Miss Borden, to this day, has files which they refuse to have opened (atty.-client privilege?) Imagine if the files contained a clandestine confession, a possible aim for a plea-deal. That is speculation, of course, yet can you imagine? May I recommend the very fine "The Trial of LIzzie Borden" by Cara Robertson? Available as an audiobook, too.
That's actually wrong.. He bought back a tenement house from them after they had decided to purchase one and the venture did not go as the girls expected. But that they owned one, is true.
She got acquitted because she could afford expensive defence who managed to suppress such evidence as the Prussic acid. The inquest had no problem thinking she did it. Nor the grand jury. If you're rich (and the Bordens had $8m in today's terms) it helps a great deal in the legal system.
@@robertbailey1175 Yes! I always think of that scene from the Elizabeth Montgomery made for tv version........."Lizzie" murders each parent while nude and then simply rinsed off over a small bath/bucket and put a dress back on after. That seemed so plausible!
@@scarlettbutler2873 yes, it's not like they had real forensics back then and yes, it would have been as easy as the Lizzie Montgomery movie lol... Ironic.
@@robertbailey1175 Not really. Forensics established that Abby was murdered around 10 am while her father was killed around 11 am. Lizzie called the maid a few minutes after 11 am, telling her about her father's murder. At this point people started coming inside the house. The police arrived around 11:10 and could verify that Andrew had just being killed since blood was still pouring from his wounds. As for her stepmother, it was known she was killed about one hour before because the blood coming out of her wounds was already coagulated. In any case, there would be no time for Lizzie to kill her father at 11 am, call the maid at 11:03-05 after cleaning lots of blood that would definitely have splashed all over her, if she was the killer. There is no way she could have cleaned all that blood and changed to a clean dress in only 3 minutes!... [In answer to "@Carpe Diem there was an hour and a half between murders and another hour+ before they were found, she had plenty of time to clean up." END OF QUOTE]
I did stay in the spare bedroom where Abby Borden was killed. In fact, I actually slept on that side of the bed where Abby’s body was, because my friend was too creeped out to take that side of the bed!
After just a few minutes in, the frugality of Mr. Borden hit a home-run. I was raised by my grandparents. They lived through the depression; and the effect that it had upon them for the rest of their whole lives - was exactly the same. They didn't need to watch every dime, but they did. They just 'had' to I guess. My Great grandparents, who I also knew. Grandma had one of those 4 to 5 story real-old wood-framed houses in old Los Angeles. I never did explore that whole thing. Kinda scary. Anyway, I remember him saying at the beginning that he was going to discuss some of his own theories about the case. He never did.
Good gods. Lizzie murdered her father and stepmother to have the MONEY and FREEDOM. It's pretty flipping simple. At that time in history, women lived in their father's home until they married or their father died. As a spinster, Lizzie would be required by law (and society) to live with her parents until she or they died. Daddy dearest dies, Lizzie and her sister inherit as the only surviving members of the household. The jury didn't convict her because they were MEN who could not believe a woman of Lizzie's social status (and women in general) could ever do anything like that. All you have to do understand the era and social expectations of the time.
Lizzie did it. She got off because of inept investigation and the unwillingness of many to believe that a young woman could do it, especially a young woman of the towns illustrious family, even the cadet branch. She really hated her step mother and was terribly angry at her father. She had mental issues.
She got off because so much of the incriminating evidence was not allowed by the judge. Her inquest testimony was not allowed. The pharmacist who encountered her trying to buy prussic acid was not allowed to testify. And they really did not have forensic evidence linking her to the crime. I don't think anyone could have convicted her beyond a reasonable doubt.
So you don’t think that someone else may have done it & she covered for them? Lizzie wasn’t a big beefy farm girl. She was a city girl. The bones were shattered in places they were hit so hard with an axe. Have you ever split firewood by hand? I have. It’s not easy.
Andrew wasn't all that bad.. lizzie went to Europe, they also had there own dress makers. Both ladies were given homes , i thought they lived pretty good
1212matt they were only given homes after their dad passed-( yea- if they hired a dress maker{ most did in those days}- but a dress or two in a year was “ sorry”-( when stepmom got several more).
You must be a very argumentative person the women looked well-fed and well-nourished in my opinion they were grown adults they can eat whatever they want they lived really good
she is not my mother she is my step mother-not really a red flag unless she said it like a b. She could just be letting them know the fact, could be in shock. If I was an officer I would like to know that fact. Because that means Lizzie might not be familiar with her step mothers “enemies” if she hasn’t known her her entire life.
I have strong doubts about Lizzie’s culpability in this case. For one thing, there was another axe murder in Fall River, a few months before the Borden’s murders. It also occurred at a fairly large house, during the day. There was one victim. There was no one else home at the time. They arrested a man on suspicion in that murder a few days prior to the Borden murders. Interestingly, he was not known to the area, was a very recent immigrant to America, Jose Correiro had only arrived in America a short time before the first murder was committed, immigrating from the Portuguese Azores islands. He was working on the property which was on a farm. According to the local paper, he could not have committed the Borden murders, as reported Correira "came to America from the Western Islands about two months ago..." (New Bedford Evening Standard, June 1, 1893). This would place him arriving in the states in about April. Much too early to be present on August, 4th 1892, the day the Borden murders were committed. That’s not to say they had the right man. In that day and age, there would have been a high prejudice against immigrants, (as commented on, here in reference to Brigette Sullivan, an Irish immigrant with a very Irish name, being called Maggie - the name of the former maid for the household). In fact, the murders happened so closely in time that the jury was sequestered before they would have even been aware that an arrest had been made in the first case. This murder happened on May 30, 1893. The papers reported this other hatchet murder the following day prior to the Borden Trial jury being sequestered. He was arrested on June 3rd of the same year, 1893. I think it was very convenient for them to wrap it up by arresting the immigrant who was the newest affiliated person with the first milieu of people in that murder. He would have had no one to vouch for him or his character, no family and no means of securing his own defense. He was just 19 years old at the time of his arrest. The “confession” was that the police believed he knew the location of a watch that had allegedly been taken from the house where Bertha was murdered. So much of the information about it is contradictory. I haven’t had a chance to track it all down and create a solid timeline. Bertha Manchester was the victim, 22 years old, she worked on the farm and was alone in the house when attacked. She suffered 22 strikes to the head and face, with an axe or similar sharp heavy weapon. Just like the Borden’s. Abby was struck 20 times. Andrew was struck ten times. The same doctor conducted all the autopsies of both cases. It’s likely that the energy was spent on Abby, and imo Abby was the primary target. Both crimes occurred within Fall River’s city limits, wounds were similar in location and number, the assassin appeared to linger at the scene after the murders, the victims were slaughtered in their homes in the morning hours, and valuable items were reportedly left undisturbed... except for the watch that was later cited to be from the house where Bertha Manchester was killed. It’s just too many similarities in a short time span for my mind to easily dismiss as coincidental...
if you've ever been to a campground, you know how bad an outhouse stinks, most farmhouses had the outhouse far from the house, imagine how badly it stunk in winter with the house closed up against the cold and in summer, even with the windows open, the heat would make the stink even worse... that alone, over the years, knowing he had the money to change things, might be enough to drive one mad...
I think I heard that it wasn't that bad that they could flush. My Great Granddad had an outhouse and this was in the 1970's when I was a kid of 11. I remember I would try not to pee till I got home but sometimes I just had to go in there and I would hold my breath as long as I could but I couldn't hold it long enough so I just inhaled that stench and it took all day to get it out of my nostrils:)
@@MissWitchiepoo they had no indoor plumbing = no flush ... they had a pump handle in the kitchen ... I believe in frugality, but that was ridiculous for that time & their wealth ... Yikes
Great talk, he tells LB story very frankly, feel very much like a well known trustworthy friend I’d relating this over coffee. What a compelling and smooth story teller this guy is. I have read a few books on these murders, this version is best, he presents the facts but does not try to invent a narrative to explain who or why. Great talk
I have always had a interest in the Lizzy Borden case .This has been a different story then I have heard before . But one night I was watching a show on TV . Called Dead Files .And was a crazy story .
There is no hard evidence that Lizzie committed this crime. There is more evidence that she didn’t. The jury was completely right to find her not guilty. Whatever my opinion of her guilt, there was absolutely reasonable doubt.
@@lilyg5304 I actually think she probably did it, but only because of things that occurred years later. I can’t see any real evidence pointing toward her guilt, though. There is certainly plenty of reasonable doubt in this case.
It's a time when people where allowed to enter and leave the crime scene - eve Uncle John got to go from body to body to look. The main suspect stayed in the house overnight with the bodies. The clothes were given to strangers to bury (and perhaps take items from them). You don't know what evidence was or wasn't there. We'll never know because of the stupid cops. Three things we know - Lizzie lied about a note calling Abby away. She finds her father still bleeding from his wounds but isn't scared to stay in the house alone as Bridget went for help. And Emma claimed at the trial that she told Lizzie to burn the dress but in front of the cop and the best friend at that moment she was just as shocked as the friend that she'd done it. And all that "evidence" that proved her innocent you think there would have been...those same cops missed a dress shoved under a counter in the kitchen?
I'm from FR. Listening to old timers indoor plumbing was considered "unhygienic". Gas lighting was unsafe. Many homes burned down due to explosions. Electric was still new technology. My theory is Mr. Borden was holding back until electricity was proven safe. There's also "if it ain't broke" and "this is how it is".
It was custom to have a maid. He was by no means ostentatious - he did not care to live with what others thought were necessities, much less show off his money. Plus the girls were expected to do housework and chores and they did so. It was Lizzie that wanted to live more in line with 'society'.
@@johndoe-wv3nu I agree with you to a degree. He was puritanical by nature and if it didn't bother him to be without the comforts of life, he didn't expect it to be an issue with anybody else in the house.
@@lilyg5304 the Borden's you know where slanderous accounts written by people trying to sell newspapers in 1892. In all reality, the Borden's lived a luxurious lifestyle. They ate well and the house on Second Street was well appointed for the time. When you hear about the wealthy people that lived on the hill, that was out of Andrew Borden's reach and Lizzie would have known that. The house she bought was a cottage in comparison to wealthy homes in FR.
I don't know where he got that information.. she never avoided her uncle. And the information about Emma is completely false.. Emma visited extensively.. both in Fairhaven, Swansea and even in other towns bordering Fall River. She was not a homebody.
As has so often been pointed out: Marriage was the only acceptable profession for gently bred women of that time. By the standards of the day, Lizzie and her sister were lucky to be receiving any support from their father. It was not uncommon for a woman’s single state to be lamented and resented.
Enjoyed this very much. Well done. The photo of maplecroft with car out front., NOTICE THE HOUSE WITH PORCH TO LEFT. THAT WAS LAWYERS HOUSE WHO TOOK ALICE. STATEMENT ABOUT THE DRESS... TKS FOR VIDEO...ALWAYS WANTED TO SEE EMMAS HOUSE. EMMA STAYED 12 YEARS WITH LIZZIE. LONG TIME BEFORE SHE MOVED OUT. LOL
As a Lizbeth Borden aficionado, (and having toured the house SEVERAL times), I’d like to point out several errors and omissions he made. 1. The murders occurred August NOT October 2. Abbey was FIRST victim, NOT SECOND. 3. The building he gave Lizbeth & Emma he already owned. He didn’t buy it for them. 4. He had to buy it back because it was decrepit, and they didn’t want it, because it would cost them too much to repair. 5. Neglected to mention that John Morris showed up unexpectedly, without prior notice AND without luggage! 6. Lizbeth was ALSO supposed to go to the Brownell’s, but a school meeting delayed her going. 7. Lizbeth & Emma RARELY ate breakfast with Abbey & Andrew. 8. Dr. Bowen couldn’t have been “on the scene within just a few minutes”, as he was on a house call some distance away. 9. The first strike to Abbey she was facing her assailant. The first blow spun her around and she went down. 10. Preliminary autopsies were done in the dining room, NOT the sitting room. 11. The box with the broken hatchet was a box of old tools. 12. Lizbeth also left money to others besides those he mentioned. She paid.to send people to school, she also paid for a monument for someone’s grave. She was rather generous in her later life. 13. He neglected to mention that Andrew was about to transfer the Swansea Farm to Abbey, and John Morris was “supposedly” involved with/had knowledge of it. 14. Also never mentioned a bucket of bloody rags found in the basement which were reported to be Lizbeth’s menstrual rags. Bridget said during testimony that “those weren’t there, or I’d have washed them.” 15. No mention that several valuables went “missing” from Andrew & Abbey’s rooms. 16. The side door was habitually kept locked. Andrew wouldn’t have tried for that door…he always used the front door. I suggest you read “The History and Haunting of Lizzie Borden” by Rebecca Pittman. She actually reviewed the court transcripts for the book, and goes into a lot of the evidence and testimony.
Agree. But thought the only valuables missing were Abby's jewellery the year before, which resulted in Andrew installing locks on all the internal doors: Lizzie as the only suspect at the time.
Again , her flat demeanor is expected in someone that has experienced trauma , she has . So things like this are how we learned people act in a certain manner after trauma . You’re biased by what they say in portraying her as being flippant rather than in shock . I get why , and you’re information is the best I’ve ever seen and I’ve always been a Lizzie fan .
I've studied this case for 50 yrs,you didn't mention the fact that 2 different farms 50 miles away had murders similar to this 2 months earlier. No one was ever caught for those murders and I'll go to my grave defending lizzie. Animal lovers don't murder people.
I have no idea if she did it or not- but there are many people that love animals and have murdered people. Charles Manson was one. His followers and people that knew him well, say he loved animals. Adolf Hitler was another. He love adored his German Shepherd, Blondie and was also a vegetarian. Like I said, I have no idea about Lizzie- I just wanted to point out that that one part of your argument for her innocence simply doesn’t hold up, as it’s factually incorrect.
@@absolutelydisgusted3319 if you notice both hitler and manson had other people do thier killing, read up on murder's statistics show all killers start with animals, not cultist like hitler murderer's
Apparently, there was more murders in the other nearby towns with similar Modus Operandi (M.O.). Some people suggested that the murderer used the trains nearby to travel between the towns to commit the murders.
I still believe that Lizzie Borden was guilty as hell . There no way somebody could come into her house undetected brutally kills 2 people without seeing and hearing all the noises and commotions going while the murders taken place especially with the step mother who was a very big woman who had falling hard to the floor as she was being attacked that would had cause a lot noise just by her falling i'am pretty sure she was screaming at the top of lungs as she was being attacked. But nobody didn't hear nothing iam not buying that . Lizzie definitely killed both of them and I believe Bridget the maid heard all the commotions and noises goin and maybe knew what had taken place there but kept her mouth shut to protect Lizzie. Lizzie probably paid her some hush money to keep her mouth shut for the rest of her life. I don't think Bridget participate in the killings but there's no doubt she had to heard some kind noises thru out the house if not seen the actual killing taken place I do believe she knews a lot more than what she is saying Because it doesn't make any sense how could they both be at home or outside near the house and not hearing any kind of noises and not seeing anybody plus killing the step mother first then hide undetected in the house for almost 1 hr half waiting until her father comes home then kills him then escape undetected with blood all over them without anybody noticing and seeing that person in broad daylight .I don't believe that for one second I believe somebody would had came forward that they saw a stranger walking down the street with bloody clothes on. Lizzie Borden was a killer she is the only person in that house on the day of murders that had a real motive to kills her father who was a very stingy tight man who she felt was neglecting her and showing favoritism towards her step mother who she had hated and despise. And maybe she had done it because she thought or suspected that her old man who was getting up there in age was probably going to leave everything in his will to the step mother when he dies. Or maybe she didn't want to share nothing with the step mother in her father's estate instead it would be divided equally between her sister Emma. I also find it a little suspicious about Emma on day of the murders she who stays to herself mostly time doesn't goes out much anywhere and doing much visiting anybody but on the day of the murders she does. I think that's very strange I am wondering if she and Lizzie got together with these plans for murders and Emma went along with it but told Lizzie wait until I leave town because I don't want to be around it when it happens. I don't know I could be wrong about Emma I just find it very strange for a person doesn't get out much stay to themselves doesn't visit or socialize with many people why all of sudden on the day of murders she decided to do that she didn't do much before the murders.
What says alot to me is later on years later the sisters had a big falling out. I truly believe Lizzy told her sister she killed them and if freaked her out and she moved out. Could be wrong but they were so close till then. That's the only thing I would think would make them have a falling out.
No, actually they did not have hot water. Mr. Borden did not have indoor plumbing. Nor did he have electricity, or a carriage. If he had an ice box... that would the extent of his home comforts, pretty much.
In case anybody didn't know believe it or not Elizabeth Montgomery was actually a distance cousin of Lizzie Borden I don't know if Elizabeth knew that herself when she was alive but anybody look it up on Elizabeth Montgomery it will tell you they were distance cousins I believe it I do see some family resemblances between Elizabeth Montgomery and Lizzie Borden they do look very similar a lot.
So many innacuracies in this Abby wasn't in her early thirties when she married Andrew she was in her late 30s early ,,40s that's why she never had kids with andrew
Did the inept police even check to see if Lizzie owned a seal skin coat to need the poison to clean? There's also a report by one of the police left to guard the house the first night (it's on Internet Archive) that he saw Lizzie go down into the basement alone in the middle of the night and was doing something unrelated to the latrine. And two seats over what was basically a cesspool at the base of the house in the August heat rising into the house. Imagine what THAT smelled like!!! Could have been why they were sick if flies got to the food after the basement.
Saw the Elizabeth Montgomery film, it made a strong case for Lizzie's guilt; the evidence we can see here, maybe not so much. I really can't quite decide!
Yep. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence, but you really shouldn't hang a person based on that. She probably did it, but proving it was an entirely different thing.
I remember when my great grandmother's sister died. She lived way out in the country so she was laid out in my Nana's foyer. AND they draped a lightweight Scranton lace tablecloth over the open casket to keep any flies from getting near.....and family "sat" at the foot of the casket day And night......I was 5....it was all very strange to me. I'm 75 now......😂(Glory to God !)
Lizzie's laughter I heard described as coming from somewhere unseen? That Mrs. Sullivan said she heard the ``laughter'' but wasn't positive it was Lizzie's. Be that as it may, they weren't going to convict a Borden in that town. As to the murder weapon, there is no mention of whether they checked the privy. Nowadays, they would have pumped that out and disgorged the contents over a field where they could see everything it had contained. I doubt they did that, ever.
The laughter came from Lizzie as she stood on the stairs, watching Bridget struggling with the front door. It was locked, but it also tended to stick in humid weather. Anyone standing on those steps could look into the room that Abby was found in. It would bring one eye-level with the floor, giving one the ability to look under the bed and see the body. It's always struck me that if she did not kill her stepmother, then why did she not mention the body, the moment she saw it? Why did she direct people to the upstairs rooms once the father was killed and people were inquiring about Abby?? She simply said "I think I heard her come in".
@@lilyg5304 yuck it sounds like a miserable house. So, you come in front door, climb stairs, and immediately can see into upstairs rooms? Cheapskate old man, making them live like that, when they supposed to be high-class. He'll, trailer-park kids have more privacy than that.
@@quickchris10 lol... It wasn't the best layout for a house, and the landing definitely gave you a view of the floor of the guest room when the door was open. When you have a puritanical parent who views creature comforts as an indulgence, you make do with what you've got, I'm guessing.
03/29/2021 When he mentioned the bodies being laid on the dining room table reminds me of the Places In The Heart (with Sally Field & Danny Glover) scene, where the dead body of Sally's husband was laid on the dining room table.😮
Thanks Christopher great presentation! However I do wonder what your theories are on who committed the murders? You said at the beginning you have your own theories but the video cuts off any Q&A from the audience or anything else.
Well lets see, Lizzie lied about where she was when it happened, she lied about being in the barn, she lied about reading a magazine in the kitchen, she lied about her stepmother getting a note and going out, she tried to get Bridget to leave the house, she burned a dress right after the murder, she tried to buy poison a week before the murders, and she hated her stepmother. How could anyone think she didnt do it?
This is why woman weren't allowed to sit on juries.
@@uptoolate2793
😂😂
Lizzie tried to purchase Prussic Acid the day before the murders to "clean a sealskin cape". She was refused the purchase.
She also said she was ironing handkerchiefs in the kitchen
You pointed out why she wouldn't take the stand in her defense, too many holes in her story.
Fun fact: Elizabeth Montgomery who played Lizzie Borden in the 1975 film was actually related to her. They were cousins.
Yes, I understand Dick Sargent wouldn't turn his back on her.
Yep, they say he "left" the show ... (Murdered !!!)
Fun fact. All living people are related
@@galesal1109 as opposed to dead people lmao. You are right though if you believe in the bible we are all related to Adam and Eve
I heard that in the 70s.
Supposedly, Elizabeth Montgomery found out after the movie in 1975.
The one thing that sticks in my mind is when Lizzie was asked"did you kill your parents" she did not say No!! She said "I am innocent" and when asked "did you kill your mother" she just said "she is not my mother"
Yes.... that is an odd statement to make at the time. I believe it speaks to the mindset and interpretation one has of the words used. People can and have, made a distinction between 'murder' and 'kill' , so one wonders if this is how they justify to themselves the actions they committed. I know of certain religious people who would argue that their interpretation of it comes from the bible (!)...thou shalt not kill --- not thou shalt not murder'.... makes you think doesn't it?
Not an odd statement if you've had to live with a stepmother you don't like
If my stepmother was murdered and someone asked me if I killed my mother (who died naturally), I would say no. They would have to ask me if I killed my stepmother. My stepmother is not my mother. She is my stepmother. That is an important thing to me and I do not regard my stepmother as my mother, as she did not raise me.
She was the victim !!
With all respect this is not evidence at all, you can't in hindsight look at how someone phrased something and then say that proves a theory. People say all kinds of things all kinds of ways and none of it really means much, evidence means much.
Based on the injuries, it was a crime of rage. Whoever killed them, extremely hated them, especially the father. It takes rage to butcher specifically a face area.
Dear ForestZ, With Lizzie, I agree! It was rage. It was hate. It was rage! It was Lizzie!
Wouldn’t the step-mother have been hated more? She received almost twice the number of whacks Andrew did.
Just Like O.J's? Crime of Passion!?¿?
@@earsmusic2229 No, not at all. Crimes of passion lack planning, and occur at the spur of the moment. This one, seems to be well planned and seems to be motivated mostly by long lasting hate (multiple cut injuries to face area).
I think Lizzie Borden hated her father and Andrew Borden was so cheap and he had the money to live and she hated him for that and she hated her stepmother Abby and she figured that maybe that Abby wanted Andrew's money.
I went to the Lizzie Borden home and it is 100% haunted. Lizzie killed her stepmother Abby and then Andrew and
screamed for Bridget to come downstairs and she said "Bridget, come quick someone's killed Father and she was good by acting in a panic and she was a shoplifter. Lizzie was a church goer and she taught Sunday school children and became a murderer. She burnt the dress that she killed Abby and her father she burnt it. Lizzie had this planned all out. Bridget Sullivan left Fall River and she moved to Montana and Emma Borden left Fall River after Lizzie Borden
got a house on the hill and she got what she wanted and Lizzie Borden lived her life and she died. I think Lizzie Borden killed her father and her stepmother. I don't know what took her so long to kill her father and stepmother but she planned it all out.
Its always bothered me how it could have been possible for lizzie to have changed clothing,( women wore a lot of layers then and her shoes, stockins, petticoats would have blood stain) washed the blood splatters from her hair and skin,( without running water in the house) restyled her hair (wouldnt it have been wet?) And hid the hatchet...in such a short period of time while the maid napped...also, if she killed them an hour or more apart, she'd have to have cleaned herself up between murders. Sent Bridget to take a nap, greet her father, kill him, and clean up again...not realistic.
Im afraid if I were on the jury I'd have been required to admit i couldnt convict without reasonable doubt.
Maybe she was naked?
She wore the bloodsoaked coat found folded up under Andrews head. It's in crime scene photo. It was described ad very warm day, too hot for a coat. And a famously frugal man using an expensive item like a coat as a cushion?
@@sarahholland2600 my uncle was extremely frugal, and he would never have taken one of his coats, or jackets to use as a pillow for a nap. He would not want to ruin the material.
She covered her hair
I’ve been watching a lot of UA-cam’s lately on Lizzie. Your’s is by far the most thoroughly researched and informational. I just learned so many new interesting facts. Thank you for this video
I got into this Case after the ripper business - there is suff here were it's handed down proof like Lizzie being a Shop Lifter a Risk Taker - Andrew Bordon being so tight as to be Eating the same meal 4 days running - They did have a an ice box - ìts a very strange case - but ýeah she Probably did it so justice was served at the time .
@@jamescorlett5272 he left out Lizzie being drugged multiple times on the scene, and who knows how many times during the investigation. She the most likely suspect, but there are so many buts in this case and I like that he brought a lot of them up.
@America Jones it's hard to see beyond Lizzie as the murderer or letting
Someboðy else in to do the business erm uncle John what the fu*k very strange - I can't help but Feel he could well have provided the hit man - it's hard to picture Lizzie giving those whacks but not impossible - yeah it's odd Lizzie was given what is more or less heroin - that to me is suspicious and could and was used to cover some things she later said - I don't believe we really know the relationship between the Doctor and Lizzie ? - he's supposed to have burnt a note - Why Did she make up ? the story of the mother having to go out ? - for me if that's not true which it seems not to be poor Lizzie was Guilty and got very Lucky .
@@jamescorlett5272 that whole ladder and curtains thing , could have been the perfect device . An in/out route if you will, as well a perfectly convenient way to get washed up in a bucket and haul out all evidence. Emma, uncle and Lizzie all could of colluded for multiple known and unknown reasons. I’ve always felt, that if Bridgette was complicit, it wasn’t by choice. What choice would a poor Irish maid have had ? Who would’ve believed her vs local prominent figures.
@America Jones have you seen I think it's named Lizzie Bordon the new evidence it's in about 8 parts and with out wanting to spoil it for ya America Jones it suggests that the murderer was the first man on the scene - plausible . yeah a ladder in the right place the door key just sitting there - Question is Who's climbing that ladder ? If that's the way things went down ( or rather up ) .
In Lizzie's defense: The reason for her seemingly conflicting answers at the inquest might be that they had her heavily sedated for some time after the murders.
Also, what difference did it make if she remembered exactly what she was doing at that moment? It was not a notable time. Ask me what I was doing at some unimportant time in my day, I won’t be sure, either.
Yes. It was documented
I totally agree... Just imagine being on that many drugs, the doses she was receiving was ALOT also. The Dr said he would double her doses, so yes no way she could have been able to handle all that and function normally....
on morphine
@@karenmatthews1751 morphine sucks...makes me loopy then when it's wearing off I have a 2 day hangover from it...yuck...
Some interesting new facts that I didn't know before. I don't think she used a hatchet because the wounds on Abby's head don't look like hatchet wounds at all. According to a show I saw on you tube called Lizzie Borden"s weapon the wounds on Abby's head match up nicely with a flat iron like the one she supposedly used to iron handkerchiefs that morning. She would have had plenty of time to clean herself off afterwards. As for her father,you will note his body was found with his top coat partially under his head. Now I don't think he would have wanted to soil his everyday coat using it for a pillow when a small cushion or the armrest would do just as well. No, he hung up his coat as usual and laid down to rest. A little later Lizzie put on his large coat over her dress and killed him with the iron,took off his coat and shoved it under his head. Next all she had to do was wash off her hand and the iron and replace it on the stove. Now the murder weapon is hidden in plain sight.
Thought this myself!!. Too hot a day for coat. And iron could have done it. Maybe hatchet for Abby.
Good insight. That all makes sense.
🤔
In those days, without t.v., internet, social media, movie theatres, or really any kind of recreation besides books and doing chore work or sewing, Lizzie would have had plenty of time on her hands to come up with a very careful and well thought out murder plan. She didn't do it with intent to ever got caught.
Interesting hypothesis. I hadn't considered one of those old fashioned clothes irons as the weapon.
It appears from the house diagram that there is no hallway connecting the rooms. You would have to go through one bedroom to get to another. No privacy it seems.
It was customary back then for the dead to remain in the home until prepared for burial... usually a volunteer and friend of family sat with the corpse.
My parents, both born and raised in Fall River during the depression, used to talk about funerals in people's homes.
Back then they didn't outsource death like we do now. When people were sick, they would usually die at home. Old people also died at home. No retirement homes back then. People were more familiar and more comfortable dealing with death and the dead back then. It freaks us out but not people back then. And everyone was born in the home too back then.
My mother-in-law died of a stroke several weeks after her shot. She didn't die right away, but was paralyzed and it was her wish to die at home surrounded by all of us. The hospital never would have allowed us to be with her.
@@stumarston6812 I recall my father saying he had an op on the kitchen table as a child.
My mother was born at home even in 1940. Small town.
I've always been fascinated by this story..and this was brilliant,it shed some new light light on the case..well done!
In the movie 1975 with Elizabeth Montgomery Emma said," I don't like it when you are like this, I am going to visit some friends in Fair Haven." Lizzie replied, yes you go to Fair Haven. Emma had to know it was Lizzie from the get go. I believe the Step Mother was trying to convince Mr. Borden to change his will.
This was fantastic!! I've read so much about this and yet I learned so much more! I need to watch this again. Thank you!
I read somewhere that many years after the murders the murder hatchet was found in a hidden nook in one of the walls. Is this true?
Great presentation I really enjoyed this
Re: The Borden girls calling the maid Maggie, rather than her true name, Bridget. As far back as Great Britain, this was considered the privilege of rank. I understand it was fairly common for a master or mistress to refer to their servant by a name which they liked or which was easy for them to remember.
duvessa2003 true
So damned disrespectful.
@@TheBerkeleyBeauty I know! freaking horrible.
@@TheBerkeleyBeauty Well, in its day it wasn't a big deal. Taking things out of chronological context can make them seem worse than they were then. People will refer to a maintenance worker as a "handyman" today, without asking about their name but most would not take offense as none is intended.
It's a sign of ownership. In the Bible, when a person was chosen for a special purpose they were renamed. They were the property of their God. When a family gets a pet the children fight over the right to name the animal. They sense that naming the pet makes it belong more to the child who chose the name.
At 28:08 mention is made of Andrew wearing his congress boots, though Lizzie had claimed to have helped him put on slippers. In a contemporary news article it was reported that people present had put the boots onto Andrew's feet before the picture was taken. It was felt that showing him in stocking feet--as was reported in this article--would have been undignified!
Just because a newspaper article says something, does not make it true. Maybe it is and maybe it is not. It is another sliver of information that might support Lizzie's account of her last interaction with her father.
Read:-) the will .who was beneficiary.one who lost is the killer
Seems like everyone wanted them dead lol
@@stephanielekas583 There was no will and no indication that a will had ever been made. Because it was determined that Mrs. Borden died first, everything went to Emma, the oldest offspring. She voluntarily split the estate with her sister.
Lizzie would not have directly benefited from the death of her father. Of course conspiracy theories can be floated about the sisters working together or whatever. I personally do not believe money was the motive.
That said, some sources claim that Mr. Borden was going to transfer a farm to his wife and that could have been a source of strife.
@@annalisette5897 Hey I didn't respond.you got the message
Mention is made of Andrew wearing his Congress boots, thought Lizzie had claimed to have helped him put on slippers. In a contemporary news article it was reported that people present had put the boots onto Andrews feet before the picture was taken. It felt that showing him in stocking feet as was reported in this article would have been undignified! Just because a newpar
Very interesting , my simple view is there must have been some collusion going on, for only one person to commit the crimes would surely have been almost impossible and risky with Lizzie and the maid in the house
Very very interesting. Seen many shows on this topic, but none had this much detail. Excellent production.
My best friend and her hubby spent the night in the murder room..She said she kept waking up, and getting scared because there was a mannequin standing in the corner of the room..It had a costume on it that Elizabeth Montgomery wore in a movie about Lizzie Borden..She also said that they had the same type of breakfast that the Borden's had on their last day ..I know she was expecting to hear chains,and walking but she said nothing happened that could not be explained,and she highly recommended that I check it out..
Yikes!! 😳
I would love to see the house
@@1212matt I live near here, it’s just a small house.
@@oliverwhisper thank you
@@1212matt welcome.
Just because Lizzy looks to be the most obvious suspect in the matter; no one has proven that she did in fact do it. There could be any number of suspects. Including her Uncle. Lot of players. What if when we reach the other side we find she did not do it but her odd behavior simply made it look that way?
Absolutely agree!
I agree. Once someone decided it was Lizzie they stopped looking anywhere else. Who knows what would have be discovered had they done so
@@michellegussow As a serious researcher, I have thought the most defensible answer I can offer is that I do not believe Lizzie killed anyone. Then we are left with, did she know?, etc. A while back a person on the internet claimed to have seen legal papers pertaining to the case which will not be made public. I was impressed with his responses to some of my questions and ideas. He said Lizzie was innocent and to defend that position. Anything can be said by anyone online. I am not totally ignorant but it was a very interesting conversation.
Arguments in part for Lizzie's guilt have to do with the small, narrow construction of the house. How could an intruder enter and commit murder and Lizzie be unaware? For one thing, she spent part of the morning in the "cellar", or what we now call a basement, dealing with her laundry, etc. According to testimony, the side screen door was unlatched in case Bridget the maid needed to get inside for water or implements for the window washing. As far as being aware of people moving around in the house, there were multiple persons in the household so I would think it normal to tune out the sounds of normal movements. Those are interesting points to ponder.
@@annalisette5897 even more interesting...I lived in a two family in New Bedford, MA (15 minutes away) in a house that was about the same age as the Borden home. There was a family that lived downstairs with 2 young children. I never heard anything from downstairs. I recall one day apologizing for running the vacuum at 11pm...they claimed they heard nothing.
There was no blood or a blood trail to where she would have to clean up. With an old fashion water pump. No blood trail. , No one asked if the maid had to open the licked door to go across the street or for help. That would answer a bug question
Very well told ! Thank you for sharing this video,
We will never know who truly did it . All we know is that Lizzie was beautiful from her pictures . I really admire her for leaving her fortune to animal welfare .
@AUA-cam User For her love of animals, not her crimes. Chill out.
@AUA-cam User Do you belong to Qanon?
@AUA-cam User श
अअऔ
Beauty has nothing to do with innocence or the love of animals. In the later part of her life, all she had was her love of animals; it's not surprising that she had an affinity with animals considering they love unconditionally.
you admire a murderer lolol
12:58 it is disrespectful especially to modern sensibilities, but calling a servant by another name wasn't something the sisters invented, it was a tradition in some upper class homes, I was aware of that tradition in England but it seems from this it was also done in America. It was most certainly disrespectful, but disrespect towards servants was not at all unusual. Probably can't single the sisters out just for that.
Oddly enough I read the trace of the Viscilla AXE murderer’s , believed to being disguised as a traveling minister, led a path that placed him in the area of the Borden’s town at the time of their deaths. Has this possibility been investigated?
Interesting. I know about both cases but never considered they could be connected. They’re far apart in distance (Massachusetts and Iowa) and twenty years apart in time (1892 and 1912). And I think the Borden murders were PERSONAL, not committed by a crazy stranger.
He traveled
Mr. Daley, I really enjoyed this presentation! TY!!!
Morris “ suddenly “shows up right before the crime? He wants money.( that’s why he moved/ came to visit the last minute).
No, he was actually invited to come back for lunch. That's why I don't think what he did by going out back and eating pears is considered "odd behavior."
I don't think I'd eat mutton with broth going on 5 days even IF I had an icebox. He was probably being sneaky eating them so hiss belly would already be full.
@@kimberlyplayer actually he didn’t eat the pears until later- he was a “ mootch””- he planned to be a live in/ move in Mootcher”.
He never financially benefitted from the killings, however. Neither Lizzie nor Emma gave him any money. Plus, he already had money of his own. One thing not brought up here was that there was a rumor going around that Andrew Borden had molested Lizzie as a child, which might be why she didn't like men. Maybe the uncle found out about it from Lizzie and did at the very least, helped to plot the murders to get his nieces away from their abuser. ???
@@loriminnesota1870 Just Lizzie or Emma too?Didn't they fall out at a later date?
@@susanmccormick6022 I only heard Lizzie...and he apparently always made it clear that she was his favorite. Molesters tend to do that sometimes...molest one child and leave the rest alone. Not always of course, but I've heard the 'experts' claim she might have been molested. They never mentioned Emma.
Reminds me of the Jonbenet Ramsay murder case, given the questionable claims by *witnesses* of strangers and outsiders being near or in the house who could have committed the crime.
Only one thing is that he said october 4 instead of August.
Ah! Thank you! I was wondering how on earth it could be that hot in Massachusetts in October.... I live here and that made no sense.
@@absolutelydisgusted3319 Yep. He says October, but the graphics show the correct date - August 4, 1892.
Nothing here I haven’t heard before, but that’s precisely why I appreciate it: the presenter gives “just the facts” and doesn’t posit some nutty theory.
If da hatchet don't fit; you must aquit!
A made for tv was made in 1975 that starred Elizabeth Montgomery as Lizzie Borden and Fritz Weaver as her father. The sister was played by Katherine Helmond. I remember watching it as a boy. The plot includes a vague hint that Lizzie was sexually abused by her father. Her real mother had died when Lizzie was very young.
I believe she was abused. You don’t get that must rage from nowhere
I remember seeing a ballet based on Lizzie Borden, “Fall River Legend” written by Agnes De Mille, niece of Cecil B. De Mille (director whose films earned the moniker “a cast of thousand” due to his use of thousands of extras.).
Great presentation, Mr. Daley. I have read one theory that the Maid was aware Lizzie did it and kept quiet, for whatever reason. It would have been difficult for her to have been that close in proximity and been unaware what had transpired-or certainly she had to have very strong suspicions.
I heard the maid who had been pretty penniless prior to everything, after court disappeared and when she next popped up she owned her own house and land. So she could have been paid off to keep quiet
But Bridgett was ill and lying down. She could have been asleep.
@@PattyMarshall-l8v Bridgett was washing windows outside when Abbie was killed, it's pretty hard to believe she didn't hear something. The massive bludgeoning death had to create a fair amount of noise. Bridgett laid down upstairs for awhile when Andrew Borden was killed, but she was only up there for a short while and I doubt she fell into such a deep sleep she couldn't hear something.
Oh I believe she did it. She got lucky when her interrogation couldn't be used because of no attorney present. I think she likely stripped down to minimum clothing before committing the murders to prevent blood stained clothes. It was much easier to commit murder back then with forensics being so unevolved.
Agree. Also she had a motive, her father was frugal and she wanted the high life. A stranger or even another family member coming in and doing is so far fetched to me. It was her. They just back then couldn't believe a woman was capable of this. They are.
In my opinion the murders were overkill. Lizzie did it
She did it. The maid knew, but was paid off. Read a book called “A Private Disgrace”.
Very well presented. Thank you. Ive heard the Lizzy Borden story ay least a 100 times. Lol. But this was very interesting and gave fresh ideas to an old case.
It was long rumored that Lizzie was lesbian, in fact notes made in Bridgets diary at the time indicate a relationship between Lizzie and Bridget. Police noted several looks between Lizzie and Bridget when police arrived. Bridget also received a mysterious inheritance a few years later which allowed her to return to Ireland. Bridget was Lizzies accomplice during the murders.
There probably wasn't even a known term for lesbian in 1892. That rumor started in the 1990's. Emma left no diary. Bridget returned to Ireland when her father died, stood for a couple of months and returned to the USA. She married a man whose last name also happened to be Sullivan. She lived and died in Montana.
I do know of the rumor of being a lesbian. She had a very close relationship with an actress - which if I remember correctly, was a reason for the sisters having broken off communication with each other the last years of their lives. Emma did not approve of Lizzie's association with these 'artistic' friends.
I suspect something queer was going on.
How do we know about Bridget’s diary?
Thankyou Mr. Daley, I loved your presentation of the case of Lizzie Borden . Lots of detailed information then & now. The homes being bread & breakfast Inn Tours too. I also watched the 1975 movie with Elizabeth Montgomery again as I did as a teen. I'm 62 and this movie still haunts me.😊❤🙏✌
So true..me too ❤
I saw the movie back in 1975 too.
I also visited the area several years ago. My grandparents lived in the same neighborhood when they first came to the US, but that was some time after the murders. That house is creepy.
Back then, dresses were far more expensive than they are now, and standard practice was to re-fashion them when they got torn, damaged etc. and even the wealthy did that. Or they passed them on to staff or the poor. So it is highly unlikely that someone would burn a brand new dress just because it "brushed against some wet paint". (Unless the entire dress got covered with the whole can, that is- which is also highly unlikely). I'm surprised the prosecution didn't raise that issue for the jury to consider. But maybe an all-male legal team and jury wouldn't have thought much about it.
sydney .phoebo that’s fascinating. I never thought of that.
Excellent reasoning skills sydney.👏👍
True but she did want a new dress once in a year or two( which her dad could afford- and did afford for said step mom- plus having “ monthly period” blood is embarrassing- especially for the rich Borden’s-.to be obvious on her dress).
In current time, why don’t the owners of the house restore the backyard and remove the asphalt, during the restoration a X-ray scan of the yard could be preformed, to see what’s buried, if anything. Why isn’t there an investigation of the whole house?
The house is a bed and breakfast. There would be no point or justification for the expense of digging up the yard, the pipes, etc. They found an axe, and the measurements of it did fit the cut marks in the skulls.
@@lilyg5304 thanks for the info. I still think the backyard should be restored to the way it was back in the day of when the murders took place. A paved backyard is tacky.
@@jf9488 Nothing tacky about murder though.🤔
@@jf9488 Totally agree. I’m horrified by that paved parking lot where the beautiful backyard once was. Ghastly. The gift shop currently operating in the house also looks to be tacky as hell.
Very interesting--but I had hoped we would see a question-answer session with the audience.
I participated in a mock trial play once. There were about 30 of us in the audience and we were the trial's jury. We were allowed to ask questions. We found her guilty.
It wasn't October 4th 1892 it was August 4th 1892
@@Bruuski Interesting.On what grounds?There was a mock trial of Richard III somewhere too.
@@susanmccormick6022 What? Trial was pure entertainment. It was a group of actors that perform plays of re-enactments of famous trials. The nature of which was obviously limiting the timeframe, ~2 hrs. What grounds etc? Approx 30 people with a variety of backgrounds participated, the audience was the jury. As I remember it was only a few people 2 or 3 that thought she was innocent. The rest of us sent her off to jail. It was nothing but pure entertainment. I am.located within 50 miles of the original crime. Here we are over 100 years after the fact and she was then guilt, in the eyes of the audience.
To clarify: Abby Borden was the FIRST victim, not the second.
The poem says “when she saw what she had done she gave her father 41”. They just misquoted it.
Hmmmm...and how do YOU know??? Can you account for your whereabouts on August 4, 1892?
@@judalu9557 My mother used to be a sort-of amateur historian on the Borden case. She loved every aspect of it. For December, 2017, my gift to them was an overnight stay at the Lizzie Borden House & Museum (before it closed and was sold) which included an evening seance, full tour and lovely breakfast the next day. They loved it.
@@dougtaylor2803 The law firm that represented Miss Borden, to this day, has files which they refuse to have opened (atty.-client privilege?) Imagine if the files contained a clandestine confession, a possible aim for a plea-deal. That is speculation, of course, yet can you imagine? May I recommend the very fine "The Trial of LIzzie Borden" by Cara Robertson? Available as an audiobook, too.
Abbey
Andrew didn't buy a tenement building for Lizzie and Emma. It was his own home on Ferry Street.
He may have tried to teach them to be landladies so they'd earn their own income.
@@Tsiri09 No. Women of The Borden's social status DID NOT work. Ever.
That's actually wrong.. He bought back a tenement house from them after they had decided to purchase one and the venture did not go as the girls expected. But that they owned one, is true.
Lizzy did it, she got acquitted because at the time no one believed that a woman was capable of doing something so vicious.
She got acquitted because she could afford expensive defence who managed to suppress such evidence as the Prussic acid. The inquest had no problem thinking she did it. Nor the grand jury. If you're rich (and the Bordens had $8m in today's terms) it helps a great deal in the legal system.
@IS RA there was an hour and a half between murders and another hour+ before they were found, she had plenty of time to clean up.
@@robertbailey1175 Yes! I always think of that scene from the Elizabeth Montgomery made for tv version........."Lizzie" murders each parent while nude and then simply rinsed off over a small bath/bucket and put a dress back on after. That seemed so plausible!
@@scarlettbutler2873 yes, it's not like they had real forensics back then and yes, it would have been as easy as the Lizzie Montgomery movie lol... Ironic.
@@robertbailey1175 Not really. Forensics established that Abby was murdered around 10 am while her father was killed around 11 am. Lizzie called the maid a few minutes after 11 am, telling her about her father's murder. At this point people started coming inside the house. The police arrived around 11:10 and could verify that Andrew had just being killed since blood was still pouring from his wounds. As for her stepmother, it was known she was killed about one hour before because the blood coming out of her wounds was already coagulated. In any case, there would be no time for Lizzie to kill her father at 11 am, call the maid at 11:03-05 after cleaning lots of blood that would definitely have splashed all over her, if she was the killer. There is no way she could have cleaned all that blood and changed to a clean dress in only 3 minutes!... [In answer to "@Carpe Diem there was an hour and a half between murders and another hour+ before they were found, she had plenty of time to clean up." END OF QUOTE]
I did stay in the spare bedroom where Abby Borden was killed. In fact, I actually slept on that side of the bed where Abby’s body was, because my friend was too creeped out to take that side of the bed!
After just a few minutes in, the frugality of Mr. Borden hit a home-run.
I was raised by my grandparents. They lived through the depression; and the effect that it had upon them for the rest of their whole lives - was exactly the same. They didn't need to watch every dime, but they did.
They just 'had' to I guess.
My Great grandparents, who I also knew. Grandma had one of those 4 to 5 story real-old wood-framed houses in old Los Angeles. I never did explore that whole thing. Kinda scary.
Anyway, I remember him saying at the beginning that he was going to discuss some of his own theories about the case. He never did.
This presentation is superb. Bravo.
Lizzie came to the door dazed from the murders of her parents -so when her neighbor came to that door-she was sickened stunned.
Good gods. Lizzie murdered her father and stepmother to have the MONEY and FREEDOM. It's pretty flipping simple. At that time in history, women lived in their father's home until they married or their father died. As a spinster, Lizzie would be required by law (and society) to live with her parents until she or they died. Daddy dearest dies, Lizzie and her sister inherit as the only surviving members of the household. The jury didn't convict her because they were MEN who could not believe a woman of Lizzie's social status (and women in general) could ever do anything like that. All you have to do understand the era and social expectations of the time.
Lizzie did it. She got off because of inept investigation and the unwillingness of many to believe that a young woman could do it, especially a young woman of the towns illustrious family, even the cadet branch. She really hated her step mother and was terribly angry at her father. She had mental issues.
She got off because so much of the incriminating evidence was not allowed by the judge. Her inquest testimony was not allowed. The pharmacist who encountered her trying to buy prussic acid was not allowed to testify. And they really did not have forensic evidence linking her to the crime. I don't think anyone could have convicted her beyond a reasonable doubt.
She was hardly a young woman. She was 32 and already considered a spinster.
So you don’t think that someone else may have done it & she covered for them? Lizzie wasn’t a big beefy farm girl. She was a city girl. The bones were shattered in places they were hit so hard with an axe. Have you ever split firewood by hand? I have. It’s not easy.
@@jewelsmickey1265 she's the only credible suspect. She had motive and opportunity.
Right, but let's not forget about how much the town's population hated Andrew Borden, and wanted revenge via a not guilty verdict.
So interesting and captivating. Great speaker...great detail. Thank you. I am listening to this in my car, on my way to work.
Andrew wasn't all that bad.. lizzie went to Europe, they also had there own dress makers. Both ladies were given homes , i thought they lived pretty good
1212matt they were only given homes after their dad passed-( yea- if they hired a dress maker{ most did in those days}- but a dress or two in a year was “ sorry”-( when stepmom got several more).
You just replied with the word given yes given favour given homes which they sold back to their father
You must be a very argumentative person the women looked well-fed and well-nourished in my opinion they were grown adults they can eat whatever they want they lived really good
Jhi
J
she is not my mother she is my step mother-not really a red flag unless she said it like a b. She could just be letting them know the fact, could be in shock. If I was an officer I would like to know that fact. Because that means Lizzie might not be familiar with her step mothers “enemies” if she hasn’t known her her entire life.
I have strong doubts about Lizzie’s culpability in this case. For one thing, there was another axe murder in Fall River, a few months before the Borden’s murders. It also occurred at a fairly large house, during the day. There was one victim. There was no one else home at the time.
They arrested a man on suspicion in that murder a few days prior to the Borden murders. Interestingly, he was not known to the area, was a very recent immigrant to America, Jose Correiro had only arrived in America a short time before the first murder was committed, immigrating from the Portuguese Azores islands. He was working on the property which was on a farm. According to the local paper, he could not have committed the Borden murders, as reported Correira "came to America from the Western Islands about two months ago..." (New Bedford Evening Standard, June 1, 1893). This would place him arriving in the states in about April. Much too early to be present on August, 4th 1892, the day the Borden murders were committed.
That’s not to say they had the right man. In that day and age, there would have been a high prejudice against immigrants, (as commented on, here in reference to Brigette Sullivan, an Irish immigrant with a very Irish name, being called Maggie - the name of the former maid for the household).
In fact, the murders happened so closely in time that the jury was sequestered before they would have even been aware that an arrest had been made in the first case. This murder happened on May 30, 1893. The papers reported this other hatchet murder the following day prior to the Borden Trial jury being sequestered. He was arrested on June 3rd of the same year, 1893.
I think it was very convenient for them to wrap it up by arresting the immigrant who was the newest affiliated person with the first milieu of people in that murder. He would have had no one to vouch for him or his character, no family and no means of securing his own defense. He was just 19 years old at the time of his arrest.
The “confession” was that the police believed he knew the location of a watch that had allegedly been taken from the house where Bertha was murdered. So much of the information about it is contradictory. I haven’t had a chance to track it all down and create a solid timeline.
Bertha Manchester was the victim, 22 years old, she worked on the farm and was alone in the house when attacked. She suffered 22 strikes to the head and face, with an axe or similar sharp heavy weapon. Just like the Borden’s. Abby was struck 20 times. Andrew was struck ten times. The same doctor conducted all the autopsies of both cases.
It’s likely that the energy was spent on Abby, and imo Abby was the primary target. Both crimes occurred within Fall River’s city limits, wounds were similar in location and number, the assassin appeared to linger at the scene after the murders, the victims were slaughtered in their homes in the morning hours, and valuable items were reportedly left undisturbed... except for the watch that was later cited to be from the house where Bertha Manchester was killed. It’s just too many similarities in a short time span for my mind to easily dismiss as coincidental...
Mr. Borden came home early because of a splitting headache and ask Lizzie to get something for him
if you've ever been to a campground, you know how bad an outhouse stinks, most farmhouses had the outhouse far from the house, imagine how badly it stunk in winter with the house closed up against the cold and in summer, even with the windows open, the heat would make the stink even worse... that alone, over the years, knowing he had the money to change things, might be enough to drive one mad...
I think I heard that it wasn't that bad that they could flush. My Great Granddad had an outhouse and this was in the 1970's when I was a kid of 11. I remember I would try not to pee till I got home but sometimes I just had to go in there and I would hold my breath as long as I could but I couldn't hold it long enough so I just inhaled that stench and it took all day to get it out of my nostrils:)
@@MissWitchiepoo they had no indoor plumbing = no flush ...
they had a pump handle in the kitchen ... I believe in frugality, but that was ridiculous for that time & their wealth ... Yikes
@@lisalarson8763 Andrew was a control freak
Well explained and very easy to follow..thank you for all the details in this breakdown!
SO interesting, SO well done! Thank you!
Great talk, he tells LB story very frankly, feel very much like a well known trustworthy friend I’d relating this over coffee. What a compelling and smooth story teller this guy is. I have read a few books on these murders, this version is best, he presents the facts but does not try to invent a narrative to explain who or why. Great talk
Very well done presentation. Thank you for sharing.
I wonder if the police managed to ascertain how many windows were actually washed ?
I have always had a interest in the Lizzy Borden case .This has been a different story then I have heard before . But one night I was watching a show on TV . Called Dead Files .And was a crazy story .
I saw that!
Hard to believe what Amy Allan said she saw that happened between the two sisters.....can't wrap my head around that one..
@@suzannemaria5594 Oooo!! Tell us the story! I missed that episode! Darn, I want to hear it.
What did he say the maid said
at 21:20?! Didn't get it...
This was very interesting. Thank you 😊
Very interesting presentation. I enjoyed your running commentary about one of my favorite real life murderers. Thank you.
There is no hard evidence that Lizzie committed this crime. There is more evidence that she didn’t. The jury was completely right to find her not guilty. Whatever my opinion of her guilt, there was absolutely reasonable doubt.
No hard physical evidence, but it is clear, based on how things went down that day and the way the house is, it was her.
That is incorrect. There was not more evidence of innocence than guilt.
@@lilyg5304 I actually think she probably did it, but only because of things that occurred years later. I can’t see any real evidence pointing toward her guilt, though. There is certainly plenty of reasonable doubt in this case.
It's a time when people where allowed to enter and leave the crime scene - eve Uncle John got to go from body to body to look. The main suspect stayed in the house overnight with the bodies. The clothes were given to strangers to bury (and perhaps take items from them).
You don't know what evidence was or wasn't there. We'll never know because of the stupid cops.
Three things we know - Lizzie lied about a note calling Abby away. She finds her father still bleeding from his wounds but isn't scared to stay in the house alone as Bridget went for help. And Emma claimed at the trial that she told Lizzie to burn the dress but in front of the cop and the best friend at that moment she was just as shocked as the friend that she'd done it.
And all that "evidence" that proved her innocent you think there would have been...those same cops missed a dress shoved under a counter in the kitchen?
August 4th buddy not October. I live in Fall River and know the story very well
Visited in June. Great town!!
Odd that the man pinched pennies on modern comforts and yet spent money on a maid when there were three women in the house to keep up the womens work.
I'm from FR. Listening to old timers indoor plumbing was considered "unhygienic". Gas lighting was unsafe. Many homes burned down due to explosions. Electric was still new technology. My theory is Mr. Borden was holding back until electricity was proven safe. There's also "if it ain't broke" and "this is how it is".
@@johndoe-wv3nu hi
It was custom to have a maid. He was by no means ostentatious - he did not care to live with what others thought were necessities, much less show off his money. Plus the girls were expected to do housework and chores and they did so. It was Lizzie that wanted to live more in line with 'society'.
@@johndoe-wv3nu I agree with you to a degree. He was puritanical by nature and if it didn't bother him to be without the comforts of life, he didn't expect it to be an issue with anybody else in the house.
@@lilyg5304 the Borden's you know where slanderous accounts written by people trying to sell newspapers in 1892. In all reality, the Borden's lived a luxurious lifestyle. They ate well and the house on Second Street was well appointed for the time.
When you hear about the wealthy people that lived on the hill, that was out of Andrew Borden's reach and Lizzie would have known that. The house she bought was a cottage in comparison to wealthy homes in FR.
Wonderful speaker; he fleshed out the story of Lizzie Borden. So much information that I had never heard before. I really enjoyed this.
Excellent and informative video!
It was August 4. Correct?
Yes
If Lizzie had killed her parents, why would she burn the dress in front of two people?
And why did Alice Russell let her do it? Why didn’t she stop her?!
This is quite an entertaining presentation. I really enjoyed it.
Not only is there a thrill from stealing, but she also didn't have consequences for her actions. Why would she stop?
Yes! Just like bye-done and his minions!
@@hollygolightly8048 What did the President steal?
No proof she ever stole anything
She completely avoided her uncle.....hmm 🤔
And Emma suddenly decides to visit at that exact time, when she is known to rarely visit anyone
They disliked that uncle because he came just to use and “ mootch” off of the family..
He planned it ..
I don't know where he got that information.. she never avoided her uncle. And the information about Emma is completely false.. Emma visited extensively.. both in Fairhaven, Swansea and even in other towns bordering Fall River. She was not a homebody.
As has so often been pointed out: Marriage was the only acceptable profession for gently bred women of that time. By the standards of the day, Lizzie and her sister were lucky to be receiving any support from their father. It was not uncommon for a woman’s single state to be lamented and resented.
duvessa2003 true
Enjoyed this very much. Well done. The photo of maplecroft with car out front., NOTICE THE HOUSE WITH PORCH TO LEFT. THAT WAS LAWYERS HOUSE WHO TOOK ALICE. STATEMENT ABOUT THE DRESS... TKS FOR VIDEO...ALWAYS WANTED TO SEE EMMAS HOUSE. EMMA STAYED 12 YEARS WITH LIZZIE. LONG TIME BEFORE SHE MOVED OUT. LOL
As a Lizbeth Borden aficionado, (and having toured the house SEVERAL times), I’d like to point out several errors and omissions he made.
1. The murders occurred August NOT October
2. Abbey was FIRST victim, NOT SECOND.
3. The building he gave Lizbeth & Emma he already owned. He didn’t buy it for them.
4. He had to buy it back because it was decrepit, and they didn’t want it, because it would cost them too much to repair.
5. Neglected to mention that John Morris showed up unexpectedly, without prior notice AND without luggage!
6. Lizbeth was ALSO supposed to go to the Brownell’s, but a school meeting delayed her going.
7. Lizbeth & Emma RARELY ate breakfast with Abbey & Andrew.
8. Dr. Bowen couldn’t have been “on the scene within just a few minutes”, as he was on a house call some distance away.
9. The first strike to Abbey she was facing her assailant. The first blow spun her around and she went down.
10. Preliminary autopsies were done in the dining room, NOT the sitting room.
11. The box with the broken hatchet was a box of old tools.
12. Lizbeth also left money to others besides those he mentioned. She paid.to send people to school, she also paid for a monument for someone’s grave. She was rather generous in her later life.
13. He neglected to mention that Andrew was about to transfer the Swansea Farm to Abbey, and John Morris was “supposedly” involved with/had knowledge of it.
14. Also never mentioned a bucket of bloody rags found in the basement which were reported to be Lizbeth’s menstrual rags. Bridget said during testimony that “those weren’t there, or I’d have washed them.”
15. No mention that several valuables went “missing” from Andrew & Abbey’s rooms.
16. The side door was habitually kept locked. Andrew wouldn’t have tried for that door…he always used the front door.
I suggest you read “The History and Haunting of Lizzie Borden” by Rebecca Pittman. She actually reviewed the court transcripts for the book, and goes into a lot of the evidence and testimony.
Agree. But thought the only valuables missing were Abby's jewellery the year before, which resulted in Andrew installing locks on all the internal doors: Lizzie as the only suspect at the time.
Where did you get Lizbeth?
RO Lopez Lizzie changed her name to Lizbeth in the later years of her life.
*Morse
Abby, not Abbey, and John Vinnicum Morse, not Morris.
Again , her flat demeanor is expected in someone that has experienced trauma , she has . So things like this are how we learned people act in a certain manner after trauma . You’re biased by what they say in portraying her as being flippant rather than in shock .
I get why , and you’re information is the best I’ve ever seen and I’ve always been a Lizzie fan .
I've studied this case for 50 yrs,you didn't mention the fact that 2 different farms 50 miles away had murders similar to this 2 months earlier. No one was ever caught for those murders and I'll go to my grave defending lizzie. Animal lovers don't murder people.
I have no idea if she did it or not- but there are many people that love animals and have murdered people. Charles Manson was one. His followers and people that knew him well, say he loved animals. Adolf Hitler was another. He love adored his German Shepherd, Blondie and was also a vegetarian. Like I said, I have no idea about Lizzie- I just wanted to point out that that one part of your argument for her innocence simply doesn’t hold up, as it’s factually incorrect.
@@absolutelydisgusted3319 if you notice both hitler and manson had other people do thier killing, read up on murder's statistics show all killers start with animals, not cultist like hitler murderer's
I think you can be an animal lover and kill someone, I think everyone is capable of committing murder depending on circumstances.
Apparently, there was more murders in the other nearby towns with similar Modus Operandi (M.O.). Some people suggested that the murderer used the trains nearby to travel between the towns to commit the murders.
Actuacontrol. A documentary stated that serial killers have been known to enjoy animals, because they can master the animal, and are in full control.
I still believe that Lizzie Borden was guilty as hell . There no way somebody could come into her house undetected brutally kills 2 people without seeing and hearing all the noises and commotions going while the murders taken place especially with the step mother who was a very big woman who had falling hard to the floor as she was being attacked that would had cause a lot noise just by her falling i'am pretty sure she was screaming at the top of lungs as she was being attacked. But nobody didn't hear nothing iam not buying that . Lizzie definitely killed both of them and I believe Bridget the maid heard all the commotions and noises goin and maybe knew what had taken place there but kept her mouth shut to protect Lizzie. Lizzie probably paid her some hush money to keep her mouth shut for the rest of her life. I don't think Bridget participate in the killings but there's no doubt she had to heard some kind noises thru out the house if not seen the actual killing taken place I do believe she knews a lot more than what she is saying Because it doesn't make any sense how could they both be at home or outside near the house and not hearing any kind of noises and not seeing anybody plus killing the step mother first then hide undetected in the house for almost 1 hr half waiting until her father comes home then kills him then escape undetected with blood all over them without anybody noticing and seeing that person in broad daylight .I don't believe that for one second I believe somebody would had came forward that they saw a stranger walking down the street with bloody clothes on. Lizzie Borden was a killer she is the only person in that house on the day of murders that had a real motive to kills her father who was a very stingy tight man who she felt was neglecting her and showing favoritism towards her step mother who she had hated and despise. And maybe she had done it because she thought or suspected that her old man who was getting up there in age was probably going to leave everything in his will to the step mother when he dies. Or maybe she didn't want to share nothing with the step mother in her father's estate instead it would be divided equally between her sister Emma. I also find it a little suspicious about Emma on day of the murders she who stays to herself mostly time doesn't goes out much anywhere and doing much visiting anybody but on the day of the murders she does. I think that's very strange I am wondering if she and Lizzie got together with these plans for murders and Emma went along with it but told Lizzie wait until I leave town because I don't want to be around it when it happens. I don't know I could be wrong about Emma I just find it very strange for a person doesn't get out much stay to themselves doesn't visit or socialize with many people why all of sudden on the day of murders she decided to do that she didn't do much before the murders.
What says alot to me is later on years later the sisters had a big falling out. I truly believe Lizzy told her sister she killed them and if freaked her out and she moved out. Could be wrong but they were so close till then. That's the only thing I would think would make them have a falling out.
They may not of had electricity, but they were one of the first homes with plumbing and Hot water.... 🛁🚽🚿
I think they were spoiled brats ...
No, actually they did not have hot water. Mr. Borden did not have indoor plumbing. Nor did he have electricity, or a carriage. If he had an ice box... that would the extent of his home comforts, pretty much.
Fascinating lecture.
In case anybody didn't know believe it or not Elizabeth Montgomery was actually a distance cousin of Lizzie Borden I don't know if Elizabeth knew that herself when she was alive but anybody look it up on Elizabeth Montgomery it will tell you they were distance cousins I believe it I do see some family resemblances between Elizabeth Montgomery and Lizzie Borden they do look very similar a lot.
Who is Simeon Borden Jr (Asst Clerk, bottom of indictment @ 44:50)? Any relative?
The city was full of Bordens.. all related to some degree.
Could lizzie or her uncle have known that the police would be at their annual picnic?
The people would have known this, a better odds to kill someone on that day wouldn't you say?
This was excellent! Thanks!
So many innacuracies in this Abby wasn't in her early thirties when she married Andrew she was in her late 30s early ,,40s that's why she never had kids with andrew
Did the inept police even check to see if Lizzie owned a seal skin coat to need the poison to clean?
There's also a report by one of the police left to guard the house the first night (it's on Internet Archive) that he saw Lizzie go down into the basement alone in the middle of the night and was doing something unrelated to the latrine.
And two seats over what was basically a cesspool at the base of the house in the August heat rising into the house. Imagine what THAT smelled like!!! Could have been why they were sick if flies got to the food after the basement.
I think someone accompanied her down to the basement that night, I believe it was Alice Russell.
Saw the Elizabeth Montgomery film, it made a strong case for Lizzie's guilt; the evidence we can see here, maybe not so much. I really can't quite decide!
Nope, i agree, this is a tough one
Yep. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence, but you really shouldn't hang a person based on that.
She probably did it, but proving it was an entirely different thing.
Do you know what's also part of the lore? That Lizzie was a shoplifter, the Maggie name thing, and that the father was a penny pincher.
I remember when my great grandmother's sister died.
She lived way out in the country so she was laid out in my Nana's foyer. AND they draped a lightweight Scranton lace tablecloth over the open casket to keep any flies from getting near.....and family "sat" at the foot of the casket day
And night......I was 5....it was all very strange to me.
I'm 75 now......😂(Glory to God !)
Very change and scary experience for a 5 year old child.
Mr.Daley, why won't you stay overnight at the Borden home if I may ask? Thank you!!!
Lizzie's laughter I heard described as coming from somewhere unseen? That Mrs. Sullivan said she heard the ``laughter'' but wasn't positive it was Lizzie's. Be that as it may, they weren't going to convict a Borden in that town. As to the murder weapon, there is no mention of whether they checked the privy. Nowadays, they would have pumped that out and disgorged the contents over a field where they could see everything it had contained. I doubt they did that, ever.
The laughter came from Lizzie as she stood on the stairs, watching Bridget struggling with the front door. It was locked, but it also tended to stick in humid weather. Anyone standing on those steps could look into the room that Abby was found in. It would bring one eye-level with the floor, giving one the ability to look under the bed and see the body. It's always struck me that if she did not kill her stepmother, then why did she not mention the body, the moment she saw it? Why did she direct people to the upstairs rooms once the father was killed and people were inquiring about Abby?? She simply said "I think I heard her come in".
@@lilyg5304 yuck it sounds like a miserable house. So, you come in front door, climb stairs, and immediately can see into upstairs rooms? Cheapskate old man, making them live like that, when they supposed to be high-class. He'll, trailer-park kids have more privacy than that.
@@quickchris10 lol... It wasn't the best layout for a house, and the landing definitely gave you a view of the floor of the guest room when the door was open. When you have a puritanical parent who views creature comforts as an indulgence, you make do with what you've got, I'm guessing.
@@lilyg5304 we R talking Massachusetts?
@@quickchris10 Yes, Massachusetts in the 1800s.
Fall River society was conservative.
You're way off on the date of the murder. It was August 4th 1892 not October 4th
03/29/2021
When he mentioned the bodies being laid on the dining room table reminds me of the Places In The Heart (with Sally Field & Danny Glover) scene, where the dead body of Sally's husband was laid on the dining room table.😮
That was customary back then.
Thanks Christopher great presentation! However I do wonder what your theories are on who committed the murders? You said at the beginning you have your own theories but the video cuts off any Q&A from the audience or anything else.
I so a TV presentation decades ago that suggested Emma was the killer.
Brilliantly done.
"11:13AM in the morning"? As opposed to 11:13 AM at night?