yeah they just randomly neutered the tomb kings starting armies for some reason. Took the snakes away from khalida and all the single entities from everyone else.
"they came out (years) ago and they haven't changed since" Isn't that... lore accurate? 🤔 I read a bit about Tomb Kings lore, and they were pretty static as a culture, especially after the TK achieved longer, but not immortal, lives
@@thecursed01 Tomb kings are absolute the strongest faction in campaign. #1 Do not do these ridiculous game rules on yourself such as- construct only army. This is not limit by the game but the player. Fail. #2 Create constructs and most importantly buy moratory cult items like 1: blade that gives your lords and units hunger(so all heroes and lords could have that). Have armor of eternity created or any other armor. Next- add Oroboros- that gives you regeneration. Have constructs and artilery always. See gods roaming the map and taking on everything with ease. Also- just skip skeletons- they are trash and prioritize settlement upgrade so you can get to constructs faster.
@amorlanjenkins1531 last time i fought against him in the ME campaign, he was spamming 3 armies every 2 turns and had morathi, rakath and himself leading those armies. At turn 100 with their full abilities it became very boring after a while
at turn 100 you should be able to roll his ass over with doomstacks or multiple shitstacks with any faction i think just focus only on attacking malekith and only defend at other fronts until you beat him
Because she normally has a very weak army, and because of the Tomb Kings' army cap her power rank is really low. A lot of the reasons about "anti player bias" is due to the fact that the player usually doesn't build armies until he runs out of income, but prefers to have income to upgrade his settlements, at the cost of being weaker to the AI, and therefore being declared war more often.
Anti player bias kills any form of actually playing lesser lords in game from my experience. I legit cannot play out the Dragon Lord in most cases very long because he, like Khalida, is surrounded by enemies that hate them.
@@TheDarkkilla12 Imrik has one of the worst starts in the game, it's surreal, I'm shocked Merkovich was able to complete a dragon-only challenge run using him.
@@Supercohboy he is. On WH2 it was HELLA WORSE with rats next door. He’s still a bad start, but compared to the number of runs on WH2 to then to 3 feels a lot easier, but only by what he has to put up with no rats unless you get REALLY unlucky.
I think with tomb kings you have to prioritize getting that second army even if it means fielding 2 smaller armies due to the unit caps put on the tomb kings
There's no "smaller armies" with Tomb Kings. They can fill the rest of the army with skeletons, Zerk shot himself in the foot by ONLY recruiting constructs.
@@richardsolheim374 true but the point of the kings is they need every unit to play properly until they're large enough to go into themed armies. I knew the moment i saw construct only this wasn't gonna go well. Although to be fair, i actually like unit caps. I feel like every faction should have capped units.
@@skeith1543I disagree somewhat, I would prefer a medieval 2 style system where you can only build certain kinds of buildings in certain towns and instead of recruiting armies Willy Nilly youve got a cool down.
Considering how the Tomb King neighbour is always a reliable ally when playing Sisters of Twilight it is nice to see them help out unlike the Dwarf being a jerk.
I think this is doable with Khatep, but you just have to sit in your starting province for a long time until you can fill out a second army of constructs. Also abuse the techs for recruiting all the heroes first, they are really strong.
Old world unfortunately didn’t add too many new units for tomb kings. We got the arch necrotect lord, tomb guard chariots, necroserpents with no riders, and an elite ushabti unit, which can only have the melee weapon. Pretty neat stuff for the morturary cult and the nekeharan royal host, but yeah, just some kit bash swaps or paint options. At least we got the necro dragon!
the tomb kings are a hard army to play, however they are not 'weak'. more so then any other army you really need combined arms to hold with them. they are not a faction that plays well with themed armies early in the campaign you just don't have the resources to do it. The Necrotects are absolutely vital to pumping up construct numbers too. That said, Khalida's start is really terrible lol. I think Settra's got the best start of the kings. I remember so many multiplayer campaigns where i had to go bail out my buddy cause he got overwhelmed so quickly. Turns out the Out Post system made up for a lot of issues by giving the kings more variety early on.
The meta for tomb kings is to just spam tomb guard buildings everywhere. +3 capacity for each settlement to tomb guard means that you can get a full 18 or 19 stack of them with 6 or 7 settlements owned. They also get a ton of buffs from technology and some nearby settlement bonuses while being easily replaceable in 1 turn globally by around turn 35-40. Scorpions being nerfed in game 3 means that the sphynx are the only constructs worth caring about now lol.
This The constructs really aren't built to tank (ironically, given how they're made of goddamn stone) but to deal damage. They're the hammer to your skeletons'/tomb guards' anvil
My biggest thing about Tomb Kings: I just wish their archers weren't capped. Like...The basic archers. I am not asking for cavalry, chariots, beasts, constructs, anything. I just find it hard to believe that the most basic archer is so hard to have that I need a dedicated building to it. That alone likely would let me enjoy them to their fullest. Don't really need much other than that and you can easily handle a lot of early game stuff.
I don’t think lore of Nehek is bad at all, maybe I’m just a TK fanboy but the spells are cheap and stack up that restless dead passive (aoe heal on casts). Really strong in tight formations, especially with the realm of souls healing added
That's the issue though, you have to be in tight formation. Considering how deadly vortex magic is in 3 compared to 2 you clump too much and you can lose half your army to one good vortex
It's strong, but it's buff/debuff focused (the vortex was ass, last I tried) which makes it difficult to calculate the gold value impact it has on a battle But Pha's Protection to spam passive + the big ol Dessication debuff are massive assets
I think the big issue here is that as far as I remember constructs don't benefit from that healing correct? I think the healing only works for undead units but I could be wrong.
Try playing Grombie. You get Malekith, Khatep and Valkia all coming at you with super-aggro. That's what you get for being the only order guy around in miles.
Technically by lore there's not much of a difference between the tomb kings soldiers and the constructs The constructs are either statues animated by bound souls (the same way the soldiers are skeletons animated by bound souls) or they're just giant, elaborate sarcophagi
Not sure if I agree on the TKs. Their ability to crapstack is what makes them so good. If you remove the crapstack from the TK strategy that's like when you forbid the knife-ears to shoot pointy sticks.
Tomb Kangz are still my favourite faction even though their start is woefully slow, once you get up to the 3 armies point you can just snowball the living (in a wholesome way, that sounded kinda dirty)
Nice to see another video where one of these goofy campaign ideas just doesn't work as oppossed to the usual steamrolling. Its amazing seeing how different Ushapti are on vanilla vs SFO, where they are absolutely no pushovers
I wonder how this would do in SFO I guess I’ll give it a go. Update: It is doable with an asterisk. My settings are very hard, very hard, max ai stat buff. If you use grand hierophant khatep you get the four choices for a buff and debuff upon starting. One of which increases unit cap for all units which is essential early game. Now the reason it’s doable with an asterisk. I didn’t restrict myself purely to necrotects. It didn’t seem possible, and it’s seemingly arbitrary that necrotects are all right just because they’re related to constructs. So i heavily relied on heroes early on with hard cap of three heroes per army. It is VERY difficult early on. I had to trade one of my provinces to the sisters of twilight to stop the nearby skaven clan from taking my territory while struggling to take rothkar spire. It’s turn 105 four full armies, strength rank 4, 10 provinces, still allies with the sisters, expanding northward because chaos op.
There were two changes to tomb kings. One in Whii update that slowed their growth, but another in 3 that greatly reduced their building costs and increased recruitment speed. Really don't think they need a rework, just some LLs.
Don't forget some new units, i Don't really know what other units aren't there. Maybe some elite armored infantry? Cavalry, definitely constructs, and without a doubt a new generic lord and hero!
The low army amount makes domination insanely hard to do especially if the enemy has like 20 armies and u got 5, but i think if they add some more types and buff what's there to at least a good stat not this pis poor stats they be good once again
Some of their units could use a buff sure (Ushabti & all their cavalry are trash), but mechanically I love how TK plays and I dont think they really need an overhaul. WoC confederation system would work perfectly for Settra at least and building pyramids should increase army capacity in Nehekharan tomb cities. Keeping players expansion limited to research or mortuary cult removes incentive to use canopic jars for anything other than army capacity (beastmen have similar problem with dread, where its more optimal to have tons of lords with ungol crap stack than increase elite unit capacity with their cost increasing so much). Otherwise, although TKs are not the strongest, they're still one of the most fun races to play in WH3 imo...
Always like your videos but for your last point, I think I’d rather have a faction like Tomb King that asks the player to pair necrotects with ushabti to make them strong rather than the Beastmen leaving you almost unable to lose no matter the difficulty setting. I hope we’ll get a TK rework but I don’t want it to be like with the Beastmen where the faction doesn’t need any form of strategy to be successful with.
It's okay Zerk, I get it, cheating by having skeletons to defend is okay in my book, I tried construct only too, ended up making the decision to keep Khalida's starting army as is just to defend until I had at least a few extra constructs available, because surviving just didn't seem possible without them
thutep of the third dynasty is still a powerful lord for the ushabti despite his entire branch doing nothing for them. He also allows more recruitment of constructs.
Exiles of Nehek is super strong as far as factions go. You just start stacking those jars with his superior hero count and you can get a second army up by turn 12 and a third by turn 15. And then you just roll around like a thug
Tomb Kings constructs only should start with going for scorpians and get a building in every settlement of scorpians. You can get 2 early with khatep. First one with lvl 3 city and second one when you get your free hero necrotect then use the rite to get a settlement to lvl 3 and build your second scorpian. Then of course continue ushabti for the bows, but the regular ushabti are just as good as skellies for holding the line. Yell me what you think.
Tomb kings dont feel weak for me at all regardless of how far back they came out. I dominate with them quite well on higher difficulties. Only constructs with tomb kings doesnt work out because they are very infantry centric. A solid line of about ten infantry units is important for every tomb king army. Tomb king infantry multiply the power of everything else because they also fill up the realm of souls meter which would heal all constructs. That simple fact is a major key to unlock the power of tomb kings on the battlefield.
I like the tomb kings. Yes they are harder to play than some of the others, but that makes them more fun. A lot of people will complain about how the game isn’t challenging enough but then also complain that certain factions are too weak. I think their faction mechanics are good and unique. They don’t face roll by turn 30 and that makes them more interesting in mid to late game. Only mechanic I would add for them is a way to confederate the other factions
Tomb kings were always weak trash armies that compensated by being completely free of upkeep. Though to be fair, they have been buffed since WH2. Realm of souls now loop once. Making it twice as strong in theory. (Not in practice!) Most troops have better morale now. The Bone Giant is no longer terrible. Some troop generating buildings can be built earlier now.
I think also that the lore of Nehekara is not quite as bad as it was. Mainly because so many other schools have gotten nerfed along the way and I think the skull storm is stronger.
My campaign usually ends before I get to buy anything from the mortuary cult, because I spend those jars on armies, and I wouldn't buy anything anyway since those items are worse or on par with items you can find in the world(talisman of preservation, armor of destiny). The mortuary cult mechanic is a gimmick. Necrotects are useless in battle and only serve to increase caps. They got nerfs but no buffs, so they just feel neglected. I spend most turns waiting for research, because if I do anything with my army, someone will just take my settlements when I'm not there - Just look at Scarbrand taking one settlement after another, while Settra fights the vampires or humans. You are basically playing wack-a-mole as tk, and you are poor at the start, so losing any settlement halts your progress a lot.
Man, the start of this video really shows some of the crazy mechanics they currently have in the game to make it "more interesting" Admittedly, the ork army attacks were on turn 9, 14 and 20 which isn't too crazy considering they left the first fight with 10 units alive but half health, but it's not like it's an army of goblins attacking each time. They had mostly boys, a couple of trolls and even an artillery piece. How is any player brand new to the game supposed to deal with that without cheese? Just feels like you *have* to keep pushing and expanding against your enemies to play the game how it's "intended."
I imagine that, at the very least, we will see a TK and Brettonia dlc after the current chaos focused ones. If for no other reason Warhammer the Old World.
That's my biggest complaint about these types of games. It doesn't feel like the computer is bound by the same rules as the player. Every round they some how have a new full stack.
When I played greenskins I've tried to be more peaceful, respected borders of those who didn't outright attack me. I've ended up having a fragile peace with dwarfs throughout the entire play through. Lizardmen, rats and elves weren't talkative at all, so they had to be disposed of. It's hard to be peaceful when everyone seems to hate you for no apparent reason. Still shout out to dwarwes, they were the last from whom I could expect peace in this nazi world of total war and mutual hatred. Want to point it out again that I haven't started a single war, all of them were started by neighbours. From my standpoint they appeared like a pack of stray rabid dogs barking and trying to bite from all sides. The fun thing is that this greenskins play through felt like authentic russian experience.
I really wish they would give the Tomb Kings back their constructs. The thing that made Settra's campaign so fun was the warsphinx he started with, which made you want to get more as well. Now his campaign is very mid until you get them.
You know that TK are underpowered when Zerk even accepts help of elves. :) I think partially why this challenge is hard is because it goes against TK faction design.
I thought this video was a a bit of an overreaction. I've just rage quit an Arkhan campaign on turn 52 after 6 Skryer doomstacks just razed half of Araby and left me with no way to rebuild my auto-implode armies. My main army was good, it was just... not enough. And until TK snowball everything feels like that... too much for your skelly boys...
the amount of tomb king mods i have make them a serious threat, my favorite new big boy unit is the khemric titan, it is what it says it is. but base game oh yeah they need some serious help
Didnt setra use to start with a kemrian war sphinx and arent those constructs aswell? Do i misremember? Did they take the sphinx away like the did the hirotitan?
on the topic of units taken away that really shouldn't have been I'm still mad they dropped eltharion in the middle of the badlands with khorne, wurrzag, beastmen, ogres, skaven AND they took his arcane phoenix away. He needs that pheonix he's so outgunned on every side. At least give him a flamespyre phoenix??
1:51 I'm assuming you know this but the fact that you are so weak is probably why Thorek declared war on you, not because you are a threat. From what I know, that plays into the AI's calculations of whether to declare war or not.
While they're less annoying to build up, the Vamp Coast is even worse-off as far as campaign mechanics and unit variety goes. It's not a contest though, CA really needs to bring all the races up to parity with WH3's standards and then supplement roster gaps with DLC/FLC. idk if we're going to get that though, especially if CA plans to add any other factions to the game. There's only so many work hours in a year for them to make content with, after all., and we can only expect to get 1-3 more years of content/support for the game. Fingers crossed that the vampiric factions all get a refresh or even a rework, depending on the faction.
Literally , skele spam and light magic is the only way I managed to beat kateps campaign on legendary very hard, and it took me about two weeks of trying . Tomb kings are in need of some serious reworking.
To be fair your not really supposed to do only constructs as the melee ushabti still want an infantry unit stop them from being surrounded. Then add in unit cap army and you're trying to use only units that rely on unit caps. Plus on Very Hard campaign you can't just derp around doing nothing for the first 10 turns.
Play the same thing with Setra but use other units as well and when you have enough land and buildings do constructs. That's what I have done and army of only ushabti or bone giants or scorpions is nice, as I'm sure you know.
I feel like dwarves also havnt aged very well, dont get me wrong i love gyro copters and irondrakes but other then that there army is so generic especially considering the chaos dwarves now, but it also makes sense since the dwarves hate new thing
Tomb Kings are just hamstringed by the fact the current set up is forcing you to mainly spam tons of basic skeleton soldiers to serve as a wall of bones to hold enemies in place while having just a couple of the unit-capped units do rear charges or whatever to do the real damage. Also yes the basic archers being unit capped is absolutely stupid...they aren't that good so being able to spam those outs would not be busted.
Removing that hierotitan from DJ was a really bad move, made his champaign bearable, but fun! Im sure people played with him like mr just to enjoy the animations of it, as lets be clear no body recruit them late game
The fact that Khalida no longer starts with snakes in her army despite it beeing her main theme is still baffling to me.
yeah they just randomly neutered the tomb kings starting armies for some reason. Took the snakes away from khalida and all the single entities from everyone else.
"they came out (years) ago and they haven't changed since"
Isn't that... lore accurate? 🤔
I read a bit about Tomb Kings lore, and they were pretty static as a culture, especially after the TK achieved longer, but not immortal, lives
Analysis: True!
lol
Tabletop accurate too
That's what happens when the main source of income is pay to win, and ppl buy it..literally
@@thecursed01 Tomb kings are absolute the strongest faction in campaign. #1 Do not do these ridiculous game rules on yourself such as- construct only army. This is not limit by the game but the player. Fail. #2 Create constructs and most importantly buy moratory cult items like 1: blade that gives your lords and units hunger(so all heroes and lords could have that). Have armor of eternity created or any other armor. Next- add Oroboros- that gives you regeneration. Have constructs and artilery always. See gods roaming the map and taking on everything with ease. Also- just skip skeletons- they are trash and prioritize settlement upgrade so you can get to constructs faster.
Its not just the tomb kings, fighting malakith in naggarond feels like an endless ordeal with any faction
I'd say if you rush him down at the beginning with dwarfs its easy life. But it has to be done quickly
@amorlanjenkins1531 last time i fought against him in the ME campaign, he was spamming 3 armies every 2 turns and had morathi, rakath and himself leading those armies. At turn 100 with their full abilities it became very boring after a while
at turn 100 you should be able to roll his ass over with doomstacks or multiple shitstacks with any faction i think just focus only on attacking malekith and only defend at other fronts until you beat him
Not if you are torox
That fker took 60 turns to get chesed down my Beastmen hordes. 60 f k turns of running in circles retaking beaststones
I never understand why thorek declares war on khalida so often. He always does it while on neutral relations.
Because she normally has a very weak army, and because of the Tomb Kings' army cap her power rank is really low. A lot of the reasons about "anti player bias" is due to the fact that the player usually doesn't build armies until he runs out of income, but prefers to have income to upgrade his settlements, at the cost of being weaker to the AI, and therefore being declared war more often.
The other reason, of course, is because he's a prick.
Anti player bias kills any form of actually playing lesser lords in game from my experience.
I legit cannot play out the Dragon Lord in most cases very long because he, like Khalida, is surrounded by enemies that hate them.
@@TheDarkkilla12 Imrik has one of the worst starts in the game, it's surreal, I'm shocked Merkovich was able to complete a dragon-only challenge run using him.
@@Supercohboy he is. On WH2 it was HELLA WORSE with rats next door. He’s still a bad start, but compared to the number of runs on WH2 to then to 3 feels a lot easier, but only by what he has to put up with no rats unless you get REALLY unlucky.
If creative assembly doesnt revive the tomb kings, At least games Workshop gives them a revival with "warhammer the old World"
What are you on about? GW can't be trusted to do amything right, they literally just sold out of TK old world in minutes!
GW is dog 💩!
You know things are dire when Games Workshop is the "good guy" in a situation...
Or SFO :)
They put skaven as a “legacy race” (they won’t be getting any updates) for the warhammer of the old world. Screw games workshop.
@@BrenttFease they aren't though soooo... 🤷
I think with tomb kings you have to prioritize getting that second army even if it means fielding 2 smaller armies due to the unit caps put on the tomb kings
There's no "smaller armies" with Tomb Kings.
They can fill the rest of the army with skeletons, Zerk shot himself in the foot by ONLY recruiting constructs.
@@acheron16 The challenge was "Attempting a CONSTRUCT ONLY campaign...", so would kinda defeat the whole purpose
@@richardsolheim374 true but the point of the kings is they need every unit to play properly until they're large enough to go into themed armies.
I knew the moment i saw construct only this wasn't gonna go well.
Although to be fair, i actually like unit caps. I feel like every faction should have capped units.
@@skeith1543I disagree somewhat, I would prefer a medieval 2 style system where you can only build certain kinds of buildings in certain towns and instead of recruiting armies Willy Nilly youve got a cool down.
or as i do just fuck ton of basic units because shure they shit but i rather have max stacks always in a blob.
Considering how the Tomb King neighbour is always a reliable ally when playing Sisters of Twilight it is nice to see them help out unlike the Dwarf being a jerk.
Actually if you think about it screaming skull catapults are constructs as well because they are completely made of bone and magic.
I think this is doable with Khatep, but you just have to sit in your starting province for a long time until you can fill out a second army of constructs. Also abuse the techs for recruiting all the heroes first, they are really strong.
Old world unfortunately didn’t add too many new units for tomb kings.
We got the arch necrotect lord, tomb guard chariots, necroserpents with no riders, and an elite ushabti unit, which can only have the melee weapon.
Pretty neat stuff for the morturary cult and the nekeharan royal host, but yeah, just some kit bash swaps or paint options.
At least we got the necro dragon!
the tomb kings are a hard army to play, however they are not 'weak'. more so then any other army you really need combined arms to hold with them. they are not a faction that plays well with themed armies early in the campaign you just don't have the resources to do it.
The Necrotects are absolutely vital to pumping up construct numbers too.
That said, Khalida's start is really terrible lol. I think Settra's got the best start of the kings.
I remember so many multiplayer campaigns where i had to go bail out my buddy cause he got overwhelmed so quickly.
Turns out the Out Post system made up for a lot of issues by giving the kings more variety early on.
The meta for tomb kings is to just spam tomb guard buildings everywhere. +3 capacity for each settlement to tomb guard means that you can get a full 18 or 19 stack of them with 6 or 7 settlements owned. They also get a ton of buffs from technology and some nearby settlement bonuses while being easily replaceable in 1 turn globally by around turn 35-40. Scorpions being nerfed in game 3 means that the sphynx are the only constructs worth caring about now lol.
@@cHaMp630 who gives two fucks about 'the meta'? We're here to have fun.
@@skeith1543 Typical reddit andy thinking.
@@cHaMp630 Typical WAAC player.
This
The constructs really aren't built to tank (ironically, given how they're made of goddamn stone) but to deal damage. They're the hammer to your skeletons'/tomb guards' anvil
My biggest thing about Tomb Kings: I just wish their archers weren't capped.
Like...The basic archers. I am not asking for cavalry, chariots, beasts, constructs, anything. I just find it hard to believe that the most basic archer is so hard to have that I need a dedicated building to it. That alone likely would let me enjoy them to their fullest. Don't really need much other than that and you can easily handle a lot of early game stuff.
I don’t think lore of Nehek is bad at all, maybe I’m just a TK fanboy but the spells are cheap and stack up that restless dead passive (aoe heal on casts). Really strong in tight formations, especially with the realm of souls healing added
It is one of the stronger lores.
That's the issue though, you have to be in tight formation. Considering how deadly vortex magic is in 3 compared to 2 you clump too much and you can lose half your army to one good vortex
@@sasothedog That's the trick. If you use a spell to only destroy six skelyboi units, Tomb Kings are winning the value battle.
It's strong, but it's buff/debuff focused (the vortex was ass, last I tried) which makes it difficult to calculate the gold value impact it has on a battle
But Pha's Protection to spam passive + the big ol Dessication debuff are massive assets
I think the big issue here is that as far as I remember constructs don't benefit from that healing correct? I think the healing only works for undead units but I could be wrong.
the ushaptis being a level 2 building is a buff(was level 3-4), making the bows buildable from minor settlements. dunno how long ago that was though
Zerkovich is sounding exceptionally Khornate in this one.
Try playing Grombie. You get Malekith, Khatep and Valkia all coming at you with super-aggro. That's what you get for being the only order guy around in miles.
Could see the Tomb Kings get a DLC in the relativly near future. Trying to cache in on the TK hype from old world.
Awesome commentary, i can tell how much goddamn fun you had with this!
Hope this vid pays for a stressball and maybe a nice pillow ^^
TKs aren't supposed to play tall Zerk.
They are a definition of wide faction because they need more buildings to get better armies.
Technically by lore there's not much of a difference between the tomb kings soldiers and the constructs
The constructs are either statues animated by bound souls (the same way the soldiers are skeletons animated by bound souls) or they're just giant, elaborate sarcophagi
Not sure if I agree on the TKs. Their ability to crapstack is what makes them so good. If you remove the crapstack from the TK strategy that's like when you forbid the knife-ears to shoot pointy sticks.
Although not a winning style it is fun to see how long it last. However I do think doing some manual might be better then auto
you should do videos where you show the units on those OVN factions man, Araby one is sick
Tomb Kangz are still my favourite faction even though their start is woefully slow, once you get up to the 3 armies point you can just snowball the living (in a wholesome way, that sounded kinda dirty)
Nice to see another video where one of these goofy campaign ideas just doesn't work as oppossed to the usual steamrolling. Its amazing seeing how different Ushapti are on vanilla vs SFO, where they are absolutely no pushovers
Playing Tomb King's contruct - only army feels like playing Beastmen's giant buddy - only lol
Thorek showing up on your doorstep like you owed him money was so unreasonably funny, in a cruel, tragic way
I wonder how this would do in SFO I guess I’ll give it a go.
Update: It is doable with an asterisk. My settings are very hard, very hard, max ai stat buff. If you use grand hierophant khatep you get the four choices for a buff and debuff upon starting. One of which increases unit cap for all units which is essential early game. Now the reason it’s doable with an asterisk. I didn’t restrict myself purely to necrotects. It didn’t seem possible, and it’s seemingly arbitrary that necrotects are all right just because they’re related to constructs. So i heavily relied on heroes early on with hard cap of three heroes per army. It is VERY difficult early on. I had to trade one of my provinces to the sisters of twilight to stop the nearby skaven clan from taking my territory while struggling to take rothkar spire.
It’s turn 105 four full armies, strength rank 4, 10 provinces, still allies with the sisters, expanding northward because chaos op.
Bonus ducks for doing it on the old world map
Chaos dwarfes with only war machines, both tanks and artillery, could be interesting, tho the start would be pretty difficult
There were two changes to tomb kings. One in Whii update that slowed their growth, but another in 3 that greatly reduced their building costs and increased recruitment speed. Really don't think they need a rework, just some LLs.
Don't forget some new units, i Don't really know what other units aren't there. Maybe some elite armored infantry? Cavalry, definitely constructs, and without a doubt a new generic lord and hero!
@@OrkBoss theyre missing the khemric titan, a big scarab beetle construct thats incredinly badass
The low army amount makes domination insanely hard to do especially if the enemy has like 20 armies and u got 5, but i think if they add some more types and buff what's there to at least a good stat not this pis poor stats they be good once again
I'd recommend Agemouk's Tomb Kings Extended mod to give them a much needed update.
The truth has spoken!
And this is why we need Ushabti with great weapons...and Sehenesmet.
Some of their units could use a buff sure (Ushabti & all their cavalry are trash), but mechanically I love how TK plays and I dont think they really need an overhaul. WoC confederation system would work perfectly for Settra at least and building pyramids should increase army capacity in Nehekharan tomb cities. Keeping players expansion limited to research or mortuary cult removes incentive to use canopic jars for anything other than army capacity (beastmen have similar problem with dread, where its more optimal to have tons of lords with ungol crap stack than increase elite unit capacity with their cost increasing so much). Otherwise, although TKs are not the strongest, they're still one of the most fun races to play in WH3 imo...
Always like your videos but for your last point, I think I’d rather have a faction like Tomb King that asks the player to pair necrotects with ushabti to make them strong rather than the Beastmen leaving you almost unable to lose no matter the difficulty setting. I hope we’ll get a TK rework but I don’t want it to be like with the Beastmen where the faction doesn’t need any form of strategy to be successful with.
It's okay Zerk, I get it, cheating by having skeletons to defend is okay in my book, I tried construct only too, ended up making the decision to keep Khalida's starting army as is just to defend until I had at least a few extra constructs available, because surviving just didn't seem possible without them
really don't understand why they decided to remove the titan from khatep and the scorpion from arkham...
Tomb scorpion spam is epic their animations are so effective
Khatep has a really brutal starting location in general, ngl.
Another great one mate, keen for more content like this one
Tomb king are still my favourite faction with Chaos dwarfs, i love playing a lot of constructs
thutep of the third dynasty is still a powerful lord for the ushabti despite his entire branch doing nothing for them.
He also allows more recruitment of constructs.
Play Tomb Kings Extended mod. It's all the update and overhaul on Tomb Kings you need.
Tomb kings being my favorite faction makes me long for a new dlc or something to spice it up a little bit
Exiles of Nehek is super strong as far as factions go. You just start stacking those jars with his superior hero count and you can get a second army up by turn 12 and a third by turn 15. And then you just roll around like a thug
ngl the title made me go "wow that sounds like hell" and it seems like it was, in fact, hell
Tomb Kings constructs only should start with going for scorpians and get a building in every settlement of scorpians. You can get 2 early with khatep. First one with lvl 3 city and second one when you get your free hero necrotect then use the rite to get a settlement to lvl 3 and build your second scorpian. Then of course continue ushabti for the bows, but the regular ushabti are just as good as skellies for holding the line. Yell me what you think.
Tomb kings dont feel weak for me at all regardless of how far back they came out. I dominate with them quite well on higher difficulties.
Only constructs with tomb kings doesnt work out because they are very infantry centric. A solid line of about ten infantry units is important for every tomb king army. Tomb king infantry multiply the power of everything else because they also fill up the realm of souls meter which would heal all constructs.
That simple fact is a major key to unlock the power of tomb kings on the battlefield.
I like the tomb kings. Yes they are harder to play than some of the others, but that makes them more fun. A lot of people will complain about how the game isn’t challenging enough but then also complain that certain factions are too weak. I think their faction mechanics are good and unique. They don’t face roll by turn 30 and that makes them more interesting in mid to late game. Only mechanic I would add for them is a way to confederate the other factions
Tomb kings were always weak trash armies that compensated by being completely free of upkeep. Though to be fair, they have been buffed since WH2.
Realm of souls now loop once. Making it twice as strong in theory. (Not in practice!)
Most troops have better morale now.
The Bone Giant is no longer terrible.
Some troop generating buildings can be built earlier now.
I think also that the lore of Nehekara is not quite as bad as it was. Mainly because so many other schools have gotten nerfed along the way and I think the skull storm is stronger.
My campaign usually ends before I get to buy anything from the mortuary cult, because I spend those jars on armies, and I wouldn't buy anything anyway since those items are worse or on par with items you can find in the world(talisman of preservation, armor of destiny). The mortuary cult mechanic is a gimmick. Necrotects are useless in battle and only serve to increase caps. They got nerfs but no buffs, so they just feel neglected. I spend most turns waiting for research, because if I do anything with my army, someone will just take my settlements when I'm not there - Just look at Scarbrand taking one settlement after another, while Settra fights the vampires or humans. You are basically playing wack-a-mole as tk, and you are poor at the start, so losing any settlement halts your progress a lot.
You know this is making me want to play as Khalida just to see whether I can win
Thank u for actually having a good upload schedule
@2:00 don't rush that settlement and instead build a full 20 stack for free? Within 50 turns on VH/L you should be unbeatable.
Why don't you try this challenge in a lower difficulty again?
Love the idea of it
Wait did you make thid video because we recently got our first look at warhammer the old world😁
Back in the day, the tomb kings were so strong and fun to play ...
Fun fact WH2 tomb kings had a T5 construct for each LL excluding archon the black who had a T3
Also try this in SFO
Khalida also didn't have a T5 construct
She used to start with Necropolis Knights and Sepulchral Stalkers in WH2
@@robinschonfeldt2992 she had necropolis knights with lances, which were t5 iirc
@@robinschonfeldt2992 could've swore she had the anti large monster construct
I wonder how much easier this would be if you use one of the Tomb Kings overhaul mods, like Agemouks or TK: Expanded
Honestly it is about the same, the mod doesn't add alot of variety early, mostly focused on tier 5 units, with a lot locked behind special buildings
Would Casket of Souls passed as a artillary construct? Favorite unit.
I just wanted to appreciate the thumbnail
Man, the start of this video really shows some of the crazy mechanics they currently have in the game to make it "more interesting"
Admittedly, the ork army attacks were on turn 9, 14 and 20 which isn't too crazy considering they left the first fight with 10 units alive but half health, but it's not like it's an army of goblins attacking each time. They had mostly boys, a couple of trolls and even an artillery piece. How is any player brand new to the game supposed to deal with that without cheese?
Just feels like you *have* to keep pushing and expanding against your enemies to play the game how it's "intended."
I imagine that, at the very least, we will see a TK and Brettonia dlc after the current chaos focused ones. If for no other reason Warhammer the Old World.
That's my biggest complaint about these types of games. It doesn't feel like the computer is bound by the same rules as the player. Every round they some how have a new full stack.
Tombkings and Vampires will get an update with the Nagash DLC :D
BRO PLEASE MAKE A TUTORIAL ON HOW TO GET THE PAINT BRUSSH I WANT IT SO BAD
When I played greenskins I've tried to be more peaceful, respected borders of those who didn't outright attack me. I've ended up having a fragile peace with dwarfs throughout the entire play through. Lizardmen, rats and elves weren't talkative at all, so they had to be disposed of. It's hard to be peaceful when everyone seems to hate you for no apparent reason. Still shout out to dwarwes, they were the last from whom I could expect peace in this nazi world of total war and mutual hatred. Want to point it out again that I haven't started a single war, all of them were started by neighbours. From my standpoint they appeared like a pack of stray rabid dogs barking and trying to bite from all sides. The fun thing is that this greenskins play through felt like authentic russian experience.
I really wish they would give the Tomb Kings back their constructs. The thing that made Settra's campaign so fun was the warsphinx he started with, which made you want to get more as well. Now his campaign is very mid until you get them.
You know that TK are underpowered when Zerk even accepts help of elves. :) I think partially why this challenge is hard is because it goes against TK faction design.
scorpion stacks are actually kinda good
This is why SFO, keeps the "forgotten" races relevant.
That's basically drone warfare campaign😅
I thought this video was a a bit of an overreaction. I've just rage quit an Arkhan campaign on turn 52 after 6 Skryer doomstacks just razed half of Araby and left me with no way to rebuild my auto-implode armies. My main army was good, it was just... not enough. And until TK snowball everything feels like that... too much for your skelly boys...
If you would win by dungeons and dragons standards or most other role playing game metrics the undead are technically constructs all of them
Well, that was a brave attempt!
the amount of tomb king mods i have make them a serious threat, my favorite new big boy unit is the khemric titan, it is what it says it is. but base game oh yeah they need some serious help
Didnt setra use to start with a kemrian war sphinx and arent those constructs aswell? Do i misremember? Did they take the sphinx away like the did the hirotitan?
Yes
on the topic of units taken away that really shouldn't have been I'm still mad they dropped eltharion in the middle of the badlands with khorne, wurrzag, beastmen, ogres, skaven AND they took his arcane phoenix away. He needs that pheonix he's so outgunned on every side. At least give him a flamespyre phoenix??
1:51 I'm assuming you know this but the fact that you are so weak is probably why Thorek declared war on you, not because you are a threat. From what I know, that plays into the AI's calculations of whether to declare war or not.
I wanted too play them but after seeing this I think I’m gonna stick to my skarbrand xD
How are you drawing those lines on the battle map?
huh for me malakith always kinda stays hold up in his capital as mostly valkia runs all over nagaroth
While they're less annoying to build up, the Vamp Coast is even worse-off as far as campaign mechanics and unit variety goes. It's not a contest though, CA really needs to bring all the races up to parity with WH3's standards and then supplement roster gaps with DLC/FLC.
idk if we're going to get that though, especially if CA plans to add any other factions to the game. There's only so many work hours in a year for them to make content with, after all., and we can only expect to get 1-3 more years of content/support for the game. Fingers crossed that the vampiric factions all get a refresh or even a rework, depending on the faction.
Oo oo oo. Next do a lizardman with just dinos rex trike kinda stuff
I really enjoy your videos!
Literally , skele spam and light magic is the only way I managed to beat kateps campaign on legendary very hard, and it took me about two weeks of trying . Tomb kings are in need of some serious reworking.
To be fair your not really supposed to do only constructs as the melee ushabti still want an infantry unit stop them from being surrounded. Then add in unit cap army and you're trying to use only units that rely on unit caps. Plus on Very Hard campaign you can't just derp around doing nothing for the first 10 turns.
Tomb Kings in Warhammer 2 are still good right?
i hope nagash dlc changes things
That's a big if, there's a good chance that never comes.
@@henrybatten3315 I mean you're right as much as I hate to say it but there are some great mods
Play the same thing with Setra but use other units as well and when you have enough land and buildings do constructs. That's what I have done and army of only ushabti or bone giants or scorpions is nice, as I'm sure you know.
Does khemri not have the warsphinx anymore?
Thorek said a big "nope,you dont do this challenge here,fk you. 😂
*Settra wants to know your location*
I feel like dwarves also havnt aged very well, dont get me wrong i love gyro copters and irondrakes but other then that there army is so generic especially considering the chaos dwarves now, but it also makes sense since the dwarves hate new thing
Tomb Kings are just hamstringed by the fact the current set up is forcing you to mainly spam tons of basic skeleton soldiers to serve as a wall of bones to hold enemies in place while having just a couple of the unit-capped units do rear charges or whatever to do the real damage. Also yes the basic archers being unit capped is absolutely stupid...they aren't that good so being able to spam those outs would not be busted.
Hey, probably not the video to ask, but is Tomb Kings fun in Warhammer 3 as just a faction to play solo? They look so cool.
theyre still very good. but you will not expand past the desert but their theming is still top tier, tied with vamp coast
Yeah they need a big glow up and new units
Removing that hierotitan from DJ was a really bad move, made his champaign bearable, but fun! Im sure people played with him like mr just to enjoy the animations of it, as lets be clear no body recruit them late game
How is Malakith a problem for you? In my play throughs, he almost always gets wiped out by Grombrindaal and Valkia lol
Yeah Tomb Kings need their spam.