I’m sure its also marketing. The upward firing speakers would become the new best seller unless they bricked it to only work with the surround set up. I’m sure they can make one quite easily. Lol
I'm sure they are still working on/tinkering with dolby atmos. They don't have the license for that long, yet. (I think) Maybe they can find a better way than upwards firing speakers. Maybe they will start selling compact ceiling speakers instead. or they are currently focused on different things (financial issues, chip shortages, the lawsuits with Google etc.)
@@alihilly1 It wouldn't be hard to make them basically a One SL unless paired with a Dolby atmost device like the Arc and then allow it to be Atmost surrounds. It wouldn't replace the One SL, only people with the Atmos Sound bars would be buying them. I'd buy 6 instantly for all 3 sound bars.
You seem to invest more time and effort in creating these videos and for me this is more precious than the expensive gadgets you have around you.. please keep up.. we learn a lot from you. Again all your efforts are greatly appreciated !
Thank you very much! The videos do take up my entire weekend... I have a day job so this is about as much as I can put up... :) The gadgets are just really my hobby... I love to talk about them in detail too like MaxTech or LTT or MKBHD but I just don't have the bandwidth.
I wasn't aware of the update and wondered what happened to my system. Now I have come to know the culprit. Thanks for the video and I hope they rollback this shit.
Peter! Thanks so much for the video! Certainly appreciate all the time you put in! Nice studio upgrade by the way! That would be a project for sure. Even with the changes it still appears my sub is just not as present as the previous update🤷🏻♂️ But your video helps salvage the overall sound for sure. Hopefully sonos will fix some of these issues in the future.
Yet another great video and an embarrassment to Sonos. True play on/off/retuned, levels, EQ etc still will not sort this 14.12 sound signature out. It's definitely the back end of that dip you hear the boost in vocals which now sounds over the top. Needs flattening out, we just need 14.10 signature back and put whatever dialogue improvements into the EXISTING DIALOGUE FUNCTION!
Hi Peter, longtime follower here always grateful for your excellent content. My setup’s the arc + gen3 sub + 2 one sl rears. Unfortunately the update completely destroyed sub performance. There is literally ZERO rumble, no sub bass. I have increased sub level to +5, and bass to +2 and am only getting an annoying increase in mid bass volume. Retuning trueplay or toggling it on/off yields no difference either.
I have the exact same issue and I have checked a lot of posts from people having the same issues as us. Apparently there is a bug in the 14.12 version. I don't know why Peter is experiencing no changes in the Sub output (lucky him I guess!!!)... On the Sonos forum a lot of people are complaining about the Sub issues after 14.12. Sonos have made an official announcement that there is a bug for some people that have the Arc + Sub (+ surrounds) configuration with Trueplay. Turning off Trueplay makes the Sub come back somewhat in the lower bass frequencies according to the charts (however not 100% the same as before the update). In the official announcement from Sonos on the forum, the recommendation is to turn off Trueplay until the next update when they said they would fix the bug. Please contact Sonos and send them a diagnostics report so that they have more material to work with!!! Also, some people said that removing all of the components from the configuration on the Sonos app and then adding them back one by one, then doing a new Trueplay, made an improvement for some people. Could you try that and tell us what you experienced?
Actually I am secretly wishing that I get the same bug... Seems that it doesn't affect everyone... If I got the bug, I can at least play around with the bug!
@@TheGichnni pissed at having to reconfigure my entire setup but if there’s a (albeit small) chance it may fix the issue, I’ll try it tonight and update you guys on what happens.
same. i noticed it instantly. i used to have my subs on -8 and itd still shake (duplex problem) and now it has to be much higher. luckily sonos stated they have noticed theres an issue. i tried what others said and disconnected rears and sub and readded. not sure i hear a big difference and also disabled truplay for the time being.
Hey Peter thanks for the video and I like the look of the new studio. Can I make a suggestion? Adding some lenses to your LED strips would smooth out the background lighting and prevent the LEDs from shinning into the camera. Not a big deal and more so one of personal preference but I wanted to throw it out there. Thanks again for all your work! I know the entire Sonos community really appreciates it!
Hey! I was thinking just about the LED lights! I wanted to find a way to diffuse them. Still thinking about the best option. In fact, I bought the Hue outdoor light strip because the light is so evenly diffused... But there was no way I could mount it as it wouldn't stick to the wall.
Thanks again Peter. I’m one of the lucky ones who still has great bass output after 14.12. I’m looking forward to what Sonos do with the next update as I was already happy with 14.10.
Maybe they should give us an extra nugget of bonus as compensation! Like say, Ability to pair another pair of ones or fives as Left and Right speakers?!
I have been saying for years that SONOS needs a center channel slider. Dialogue the only thing I haven’t been happy with in most of my SONOS products. I’ve owned the Playbar. And currently own the ARC, Bean gen 1 and Beam gen 2 and all of them could benefit from a center channel adjustment though the Beam gen 2 is the best at dialogue of all of them.
Your thorough analysis of frequency response never ceases to amaze me..it's obvious that this is your passion and I'd like to thank you for sharing this valuable content with us. Hopefully, SONOS watches your videos and acts on your recommendations.
I have a feeling it is a bug that affects certain people; I have no issues with mine, but reading on reddit/Sonos forums, the dramatic issue where people need to pump up the bass way up seems odd. Since I had the issue of the surrounds/sub disappearing back in 14.6 while many didn't, and the fact that Sonos had acknowledged some bug and future fix, I'm guessing this is the case with 14.12.
I can't wait for the next update that they make... I really need to have a stable build for the sound profile so that I can do up a best settings video.
Hi Peter, in the video you give recommendations to retain the 14.10 sound profile. Is this the same as the optimal 14.12 sound profile? Or is there a new best setting that gives a flatter response curve?
Makes you wonder if they're planning to bring out a new product next year like an Arc 2. Many companies seem to mess with their sound or picture etc just before releasing a new product making the new one look/sound better than it actually is. But and a big BUT it would be very strange for them to realise an Arc 2 before rear surrounds with upward firing speakers. Unless that's in the plans too to make their minimum 2 products a year. Definitely if up firing rears out preform the Arc 1.
I don't think the Arc Gen 2 will be due anytime soon. Maybe if they want to, next year. But that's low on the priority list now. If they don't release one of those products that I keep talking about, then they are really going to lose out.
I had terrible bass right after the update. My setup contains an arc, two subs and a pair of fives. After unplugging the fives and the arc for a couple sec. i found that bass returned to it's previous setting. What I think happens is that is does not turn of the bass portion of a true play run when you turn true play of, until you do a soft reset of the system in some way.
Hi Peter recently subscribed and love your insight and detailed analysis. I have one question. I know dialogue is the main purpose of the new update, but, If some of us have NOT done the update, do you recommend staying at 14.10, or taking a chance on 14.12? I feel like it's 50/50 with people reeling about the sub issue. Thanks and keep up the great work! Hopefully Sonos listens to you/us and gives us that ability to play with mid range and gives us dedicated dialogue adjustment.
Great video Peter! I just want to clarify if the bug affects ALL arc+sub users or only some of us with that combination? My setup is arc+sub+2 one SLs, but I dont seem to have the bass issue everyone is talking about. I can still get boomy bass at +4 with/without true play. Bass variation is also easily noticeable when playing with the slider say from -4 to +4. I wonder if the bug is affecting certain hardware versions.
That is my suspicion too. It could be just some users. Based on the comments and feedback on this channel, it doesn't seem that EVERYONE got the same bug.
Copy and paste!!! Hi Peter, thanks for this measurements on new update. Also I have to say that Sonos not only change the soundsignature but also the soundstage. I have two setups with Arc, Sub and Ones. One of them is connected to PC to use as gaming setup. With the latest update I feel that the Arc uses more the side speakers and create a narrow soundstage, using this firesides for more work now than before with rear sounds that uses to with Ones speakers. So the "feel" is that I am on a triangle shape of soundstage than a circular, as previos version. For gaming last update not work very well...I think that this update has more to do with Arc alone than with full setup...as you demostrated on the latest measurements!!!
Thanks Jose! I am loving it too! As in the display. I like the 14.12 sound profile. It worked for me... But I understand it doesn't work for everyone and if Trueplay is broken, they need to fix it.
I love your channel and it is very informative toward SOnos and is software apps too. With regarding to this adjustment for Ver 14.12 volume up and adjustment may seem OK for now but somebody like me sometime will switch between TV audio and Sonos speaker will have to be caution due to volume difference.. Anyway to resolve it will be good.
Peter, I have the Arc & Sub. Around time stamp 9:50 you explain the drop between 300hz - 400hz. Would not the Speech Enhancement feature compensate for that? I always have Speech Enhancement ON.
I just found your channel. I like that you provide a upfront summary, but I also realized that listening to your "blabbering" makes it feel like talking to a colleguage, specialist, ... a real person. Not the presentation fine-tuned to the UA-cam algorythm, like in the early days here. I comment you for this. Good Luck. (I did all a can, watched, liked, commented)
Thank you so much! It’s really appreciated. Sometimes I think about doing things the UA-cam way but I think I’d rather go for quality of viewership than quantity of subs.
Love your videos. I am about ready to buy into the Sonos systems. trying to decide between arc and beam. This bad update has me wondering if i should even consider the arc now. What's your thoughts? Did the update effect the Beam too?
It affects the Beam too if you have Trueplay on. But on the Beam, you can increase the sub output to compensate. Can't do that for the Arc. But again, this is temporary and should be fixed really soon!
@@PeterPee thanks. i am going to wait until it's fixed for sure before buying because i am still not sure if i want the Beam or Arc. I like the Beam but would like to have atmos up firing speakers.
Just to sum things up. It doesn't matter how you like your EQ settings. After the update you can 't use Trueplay that was the main selling point for Sonos. It was also the reason why most people bought this system. Now I can experiment with the settings but it is NOT what I've paid for. I paid for top of the line system and got an avarage equipment with high price. Sad but True.
I was just at the point to return my Sonos Arc because I noticed in the last month or so a change in the volume. I tried to do everything I changed my account i unpaired my surrounds and the sub,i reset the bar multiple times, I deleted my account, I did a retune with 3iPhones nothing made the volume higher as it was before. Before i was comfortable at volume 15-20 now I gotta switch it to 40. Thank you so much for clarifying that it was an update. Sonos me what the hell are you doing??? I was this close to switch brands from Sonos to Bose I still find it unacceptable what they are doing
Oct, you brought up a very good point. In fact, I think if they told everyone in the release notes that the volume will be reduced, it would have saved a lot of guesswork and wonder.
So many people complained that Sonos speakers are too loud at night. Even with 1% volume set. Maybe 14.12 is the answer for them? It would be interesting to investigate what is going on when you listen to the music with the lowest volume level set?
Excellent informative video, I have a question, I have a sonos beam and 2 sonos 5, the sonos 5 are connected also to a turn table, what is the best way to keep the surround effect from the beam and also listen music from the turn table without unable the souround effect??
Hey Peter, did you maybe had a chance to test the TruePlay on Arc (without Sub). In my case it doesn’t work at all after 14.12 update. No difference in sound output while toggling the TruePlay. I was i contact with Sonos support and thay said that’s because of 14.12 😳
Really? They are now coming out and saying it's 14.12? On the one hand I hope so, but on the other hand, I hope they are not just blaming it because everyone is blaming it for anything wrong now.
@@PeterPee yes, I spent 2 hours on support call. Sent them diagnostic reports with/without TruePlay enabled. Prior to the call, I I did a factory reset of Arc and Sub and removed Sub completely from the system. On 14.10 I could hear significant change in the sound output with the TruePlay enabled. No, literally nothing! That’s quite disappointing and on top of everything, they didn’t mention that in their statements. Without TruePlay, the Arc is not what it was. :(
@@cyclesix I did a quick test just now after reading this. I can hear the difference when toggling true play on and off. I'd probably say not as pronounced as pre 14.12. For a novice like me I'd bring the simple approach of asking does that mean the "out of the box" 14.12 setting gets the sonos set up to a very accurate place across all listening environments? You hear no difference, I hear some difference not as much, what's your listening space compared to mine? I'm in a 4m x 4m room with arc, sub and 2 x 1's.... I'm still on the fence about the overall change but it's looking like I'm on the side of liking it.... it's also now made me seriously consider a second sub which I've been thinking about for a little while now, not for the extra bass but for balancing the atmosphere.... HA! is that their ulterior motive for the change? Sell more hardware?
Hi Peter Hopefully once Sonos fix the issues, I look forward watching what you think after testing and perhaps you will do another "best settings" once everything is as it should be. I think you planned to do one but have held off for now?
@@PeterPee Yeah for sure, hopefully next update is good and they don’t tweak it anymore. I dislike when they tweak sound profile too much, you settle on something and then they change it.
I noticed the sub-bass on my Sub dropped quite a lot, but there seems to be quite a big bump in the midbass range, or the TruePlay isn’t effecting the sub bass much (if at all), but the midbass is getting all the adjustments/ boosts instead
I said this before but I don't think they should implement a parametric EQ. They are VERY complex to use. A simple 6-10 fixed band EQ would be better for more people. Even six bands, low/high bass/mid/high would be sufficient IMO and I think Sonos would be much more likely to go for it because it is easy for more people to understand. In a perfect world of course, they'd implement pro-mode that gives us the option to choose between, 6-band; 10-band and Parametric. Then everybody would be happy!
Ok that I understand what you are saying. True it's not going to be easy... and there's a perfect opportunity for someone unfamiliar to mess up the sound completely if they don't know what they are doing.
The Arc will cater to newer connections through the HDMI ARC or eARC port... But in terms of sound quality, I guess if you are more into Music, the Playbar might actually be better. Warmer sound.
I was all keen on getting the Arc and Sub for our new house, but I don't like the fact that a single update can radically change the audio experience. Does this happen frequently because I will need to look elsewhere if it does?
Hi Peter... Do you have any recommend eq settings for Arc x2 gen 3 subs and x2 sonos 5's. I followed you old settings but they not optimal anymore after the update
@@jb7753 I had the one sub for a while first, let me just say its a night and day difference. Depends on placement but it can make a huge improvement. I have mine diagonal front and back
@@jackofalltrades4091 good to hear also on the placement if ( when I do get another one) I'd place one front right and rear left. Cheers mate. Take care 👍
The placement will really depend on the room. And also, if your room isn't any bigger than say 15' by 20', maybe resist the temptation a little. One is more than good enough.
I’d like to be able to control the mid and dialogue more. My issue is watching a movie I have to turn it up to hear the dialogue and then when there is music or something loud that happens it is wayyy to loud overall and I have to reduce overall volume.
For the Fives, you really don't need the Sub. It does little. Some improvements but really not worth the value. The Fives' bass is really good already.
I am so frustrated with the update. I have a smallish media room running arc, two gen 3 subs and ones for rears. The sound stage was very impressive. Bass level in my EQ settings at -2 and sub level at 0. After the update, to get any decent bass I have had to change to bass +4 and sub level to +14. These settings are closer to what I use to enjoy but the sound and the punch from the base is no where near what it was. I am an avid movie watcher and I am at the point where I do not enjoy watching anything now. If Sonos do not fix the issue soon, I will have no other option but to sell my two Arc's, three gen 3's and four one sl's and find something that suits my needs.
You will have to increase the volume. And since you are on the Arc with Subs, you'd have to turn off Trueplay for now too. Else the Subs are being rendered useless.
I think their big mistake was not releasing the submini first instead of the Ray. Now the economy sucks, Google filing a lawsuit, the CFO is resigning, stocks are down and from what I read the submini has been delayed It's not looking good for Sonos
I suspect that the Sonos Sub Mini might have been dependent on their Mayht acquisition so it didn't make it in time... But they ought to know everyone is waiting on that.+
Thanks Peter, I checked my software and the automatic update took me to 14.12. The strange thing is That had a message that said I had a software update pending. I did the update but was still at 14.12. Not sure what is going on Also got a message to rerun TruePlay.
In a full traditional setup, there is an EQ for EACH of the channels... I suppose we aren't asking for too much for a system wide (all channels) EQ right? :D
I didn't get the problem with my Arc, so I moved it over to the beam (both Gen 1 and Gen 2) and I didn't get the problem either. I believe it doesn't affect everyone.
It is not only Truplay that is broken. Even without Truplay the Arc and sub combination is faulty. Seems to me that the bug is connected to the Arc and Truplay since the Ray and Beam are not affected.
Thank you again very much for this helpful video 🙏 Let's hope there will be a fix soon. I already found out, switching Trueplay off, like recommended by Sonos, the Sub was more punchy. I ended up with the settings exactly like you suggested with the bass at -2 and sub-level at -3. When listening to music, what I noticed, was that the voices where a bit narrow. When turning Trueplay on, they become more spatial, but at the cost of the rest from the frequency range. What I did to compensate, was setting the rears (One SL's) from 'acoustic' to 'full' and lowered the volume 4 notches. Now I have compensated that narrow effect with true play turned off and the rears are not overpowering.
@@PeterPee Sounds like the trueplay is Trying to compensate the high output in the frequenties during calibration. I’m considering buying a microphone myself to measure this in my environment. Can you advice which microphone and software you are using? I think if you measure this with trueplay on, the lower frequencies are way behind the rest, which explains so many people are complaining about the low output from the sub.
I hate being the baba jaga but when it comes to bass you don't want high bass you want deep bass and that's right of people saying that the bass has been reduced and diminished That's all right, because if you go up and not down, it's already a very strong reduction in sound as far as bass is concerned and 5DB or 3DB are very much in audio, as far as volume is concerned, it's also 1dDP is a lot 0.5 0.3DP is little and OK to work for fine-tuning, anything above that is a lot in terms of changes. And I really don't know what to do with the new sound system. I think, if Sonos doesn't come with an update I'm going to buy the Bose 900 system and sell Sonos which would be a shame for Sonos and the company. They would lose so many customers, just the trust would be gone. And the Costumers would not buy new sound system from them any more because it's a scam.
I believe the patch should come anytime now... They have been religiously following a monthly release pattern of update this year (2022). And we are already mid way through the month....
I have my sub set at +10 after the update. I tried -2 bass and -3 sub but those settings sound the same as the arc alone. So i slowly increased the sub until I heard a big difference. Anyone else run the sub that high or am I going to blow out the subs that high?
Yes the bass from the sub has been muted somewhat. Not as impactful as before. The crossover between the Arc and sub could have been affected during the update.
What was the point of that update? It degraded the product. Are they going to release another update to fix this problem. I was wondering what changed the sound. When you setup the Sonos Arc the first thing they force you to do is update the software.
@@mcguireoutdoors5187 that is exactly why I'm considering a second sub to balance it out. That said though, my listening space is only 4m x 4m. I've been considering a second sub for a while now but worried I'd b adding too much bass. But with this update (which I'm thinking I'm liking) I think it will fit in nicely to balance the room out. Where do you have your second sub placed?
@@jb7753 as Peter said I have each of mine in the corner of the room. For me running the opening of the sub parallel with the wall. About 4 inches away from touching walls. If that makes sense
I want surrounds with upward firing speakers. That's what I want sonos to make.
Yes we need these badly!!!
That number of LIKE on this comment... Anyone working at Sono here?
I’m sure its also marketing. The upward firing speakers would become the new best seller unless they bricked it to only work with the surround set up. I’m sure they can make one quite easily. Lol
I'm sure they are still working on/tinkering with dolby atmos. They don't have the license for that long, yet. (I think)
Maybe they can find a better way than upwards firing speakers. Maybe they will start selling compact ceiling speakers instead.
or they are currently focused on different things (financial issues, chip shortages, the lawsuits with Google etc.)
@@alihilly1 It wouldn't be hard to make them basically a One SL unless paired with a Dolby atmost device like the Arc and then allow it to be Atmost surrounds. It wouldn't replace the One SL, only people with the Atmos Sound bars would be buying them. I'd buy 6 instantly for all 3 sound bars.
You seem to invest more time and effort in creating these videos and for me this is more precious than the expensive gadgets you have around you.. please keep up.. we learn a lot from you. Again all your efforts are greatly appreciated !
Thank you very much! The videos do take up my entire weekend... I have a day job so this is about as much as I can put up... :) The gadgets are just really my hobby... I love to talk about them in detail too like MaxTech or LTT or MKBHD but I just don't have the bandwidth.
I wasn't aware of the update and wondered what happened to my system. Now I have come to know the culprit. Thanks for the video and I hope they rollback this shit.
They are working on a solution... so that should be fixed soon! I hope.
Thanks again for the deep investigation, I second your wishes for updates 🙏🏽
Faster faster! :) Thanks for showing appreciation!
Sonos should just re release 14.10 update until they can fix what ever went wrong with the 14.12 update!!!
Ha, if they can call that an update. :) Update to 14.12 is.... 14.10! :)
Yes
Peter! Thanks so much for the video! Certainly appreciate all the time you put in! Nice studio upgrade by the way! That would be a project for sure. Even with the changes it still appears my sub is just not as present as the previous update🤷🏻♂️ But your video helps salvage the overall sound for sure. Hopefully sonos will fix some of these issues in the future.
Thanks for the feedback! The fixes are temporary. Will see what they come up with next.
Yet another great video and an embarrassment to Sonos. True play on/off/retuned, levels, EQ etc still will not sort this 14.12 sound signature out. It's definitely the back end of that dip you hear the boost in vocals which now sounds over the top. Needs flattening out, we just need 14.10 signature back and put whatever dialogue improvements into the EXISTING DIALOGUE FUNCTION!
I think 14.10 with just an additional function of center channel adjustment would have made the perfect 14.12 update.
Hi Peter, longtime follower here always grateful for your excellent content. My setup’s the arc + gen3 sub + 2 one sl rears. Unfortunately the update completely destroyed sub performance. There is literally ZERO rumble, no sub bass. I have increased sub level to +5, and bass to +2 and am only getting an annoying increase in mid bass volume. Retuning trueplay or toggling it on/off yields no difference either.
I have the exact same issue and I have checked a lot of posts from people having the same issues as us. Apparently there is a bug in the 14.12 version. I don't know why Peter is experiencing no changes in the Sub output (lucky him I guess!!!)... On the Sonos forum a lot of people are complaining about the Sub issues after 14.12. Sonos have made an official announcement that there is a bug for some people that have the Arc + Sub (+ surrounds) configuration with Trueplay. Turning off Trueplay makes the Sub come back somewhat in the lower bass frequencies according to the charts (however not 100% the same as before the update). In the official announcement from Sonos on the forum, the recommendation is to turn off Trueplay until the next update when they said they would fix the bug. Please contact Sonos and send them a diagnostics report so that they have more material to work with!!! Also, some people said that removing all of the components from the configuration on the Sonos app and then adding them back one by one, then doing a new Trueplay, made an improvement for some people. Could you try that and tell us what you experienced?
Actually I am secretly wishing that I get the same bug... Seems that it doesn't affect everyone... If I got the bug, I can at least play around with the bug!
@@PeterPee lol
@@TheGichnni pissed at having to reconfigure my entire setup but if there’s a (albeit small) chance it may fix the issue, I’ll try it tonight and update you guys on what happens.
same. i noticed it instantly. i used to have my subs on -8 and itd still shake (duplex problem) and now it has to be much higher. luckily sonos stated they have noticed theres an issue. i tried what others said and disconnected rears and sub and readded. not sure i hear a big difference and also disabled truplay for the time being.
Hey Peter thanks for the video and I like the look of the new studio. Can I make a suggestion? Adding some lenses to your LED strips would smooth out the background lighting and prevent the LEDs from shinning into the camera. Not a big deal and more so one of personal preference but I wanted to throw it out there. Thanks again for all your work! I know the entire Sonos community really appreciates it!
Hey! I was thinking just about the LED lights! I wanted to find a way to diffuse them. Still thinking about the best option. In fact, I bought the Hue outdoor light strip because the light is so evenly diffused... But there was no way I could mount it as it wouldn't stick to the wall.
OMG, I am so with you on the 2 suggestions to Sonos.
High Five!
Thanks again Peter. I’m one of the lucky ones who still has great bass output after 14.12. I’m looking forward to what Sonos do with the next update as I was already happy with 14.10.
Maybe they should give us an extra nugget of bonus as compensation! Like say, Ability to pair another pair of ones or fives as Left and Right speakers?!
@@PeterPee yes please!
Fives at seating height and the arc above ....with one's for rears and 2 subs...that would be insane
I have been saying for years that SONOS needs a center channel slider. Dialogue the only thing I haven’t been happy with in most of my SONOS products. I’ve owned the Playbar. And currently own the ARC, Bean gen 1 and Beam gen 2 and all of them could benefit from a center channel adjustment though the Beam gen 2 is the best at dialogue of all of them.
And you wonder what's taking them....
Your thorough analysis of frequency response never ceases to amaze me..it's obvious that this is your passion and I'd like to thank you for sharing this valuable content with us. Hopefully, SONOS watches your videos and acts on your recommendations.
Wow, thank you! And yes indeed I love doing this. :)
Your videos are always so helpful. Thank You!
Thanks for showing love Eric!
I have a feeling it is a bug that affects certain people; I have no issues with mine, but reading on reddit/Sonos forums, the dramatic issue where people need to pump up the bass way up seems odd. Since I had the issue of the surrounds/sub disappearing back in 14.6 while many didn't, and the fact that Sonos had acknowledged some bug and future fix, I'm guessing this is the case with 14.12.
I can't wait for the next update that they make... I really need to have a stable build for the sound profile so that I can do up a best settings video.
Peter your videos are always outstanding. Thank you for explaining this so well.
Glad you like them!
Hi Peter, in the video you give recommendations to retain the 14.10 sound profile. Is this the same as the optimal 14.12 sound profile? Or is there a new best setting that gives a flatter response curve?
No, it's not the same. It's just me trying to normalise the sound of 14.12 back to 14.10. No reference to the best settings as of yet.
The best settings are what your ears tell you. Use Peter's recommended starting point and go crazy by tweaking to your satisfaction.
Thanks Peter, all taken in. Oh! Like the room set up…
Yeah, I am loving it too! Thanks Andy!
Makes you wonder if they're planning to bring out a new product next year like an Arc 2. Many companies seem to mess with their sound or picture etc just before releasing a new product making the new one look/sound better than it actually is.
But and a big BUT it would be very strange for them to realise an Arc 2 before rear surrounds with upward firing speakers. Unless that's in the plans too to make their minimum 2 products a year. Definitely if up firing rears out preform the Arc 1.
I don't think the Arc Gen 2 will be due anytime soon. Maybe if they want to, next year. But that's low on the priority list now. If they don't release one of those products that I keep talking about, then they are really going to lose out.
I hope Sonos is listening to you!!!
Center Channel Adjustments Sonos!
Thanks so much Peter. Sounds great again!
Glad that helped! It will be temporary measure of course. Hope they make up their mind with the next update!
I had terrible bass right after the update. My setup contains an arc, two subs and a pair of fives. After unplugging the fives and the arc for a couple sec. i found that bass returned to it's previous setting. What I think happens is that is does not turn of the bass portion of a true play run when you turn true play of, until you do a soft reset of the system in some way.
That could be a quick and dirty temporary solution. Thanks for sharing! Guys, can try this out!
Hi Peter recently subscribed and love your insight and detailed analysis. I have one question. I know dialogue is the main purpose of the new update, but, If some of us have NOT done the update, do you recommend staying at 14.10, or taking a chance on 14.12? I feel like it's 50/50 with people reeling about the sub issue. Thanks and keep up the great work! Hopefully Sonos listens to you/us and gives us that ability to play with mid range and gives us dedicated dialogue adjustment.
Keep at 14.10 at the moment if you don't have big issues with it. They should be releasing the next patch soon so stay tuned. You can update then.
Hey Peter, great work and great content..all of your points are valid and well explained
Hey, thanks for sharing your appreciation!
My problem is the voice assistant volume doesn’t match the TV or music volume. It’s an issue with my Beam and Arc.
Oh! Yes, the levels perception... Sometimes I get a shock when the voice assistant responds!
Great video Peter! I just want to clarify if the bug affects ALL arc+sub users or only some of us with that combination? My setup is arc+sub+2 one SLs, but I dont seem to have the bass issue everyone is talking about. I can still get boomy bass at +4 with/without true play. Bass variation is also easily noticeable when playing with the slider say from -4 to +4. I wonder if the bug is affecting certain hardware versions.
That is my suspicion too. It could be just some users. Based on the comments and feedback on this channel, it doesn't seem that EVERYONE got the same bug.
Copy and paste!!!
Hi Peter, thanks for this measurements on new update. Also I have to say that Sonos not only change the soundsignature but also the soundstage. I have two setups with Arc, Sub and Ones. One of them is connected to PC to use as gaming setup. With the latest update I feel that the Arc uses more the side speakers and create a narrow soundstage, using this firesides for more work now than before with rear sounds that uses to with Ones speakers. So the "feel" is that I am on a triangle shape of soundstage than a circular, as previos version. For gaming last update not work very well...I think that this update has more to do with Arc alone than with full setup...as you demostrated on the latest measurements!!!
You are welcome! I am happy to share my findings, as always.
I don't know about all you guys, but I'm lovin' the 14.12 update. Great post, Peter! And congrats on the new set up. The Studio Display is amazing.
I agree, I'm liking it also. I'm not having to toggle the volume as much and there's more consistency across all sound platforms.
Thanks Jose! I am loving it too! As in the display. I like the 14.12 sound profile. It worked for me... But I understand it doesn't work for everyone and if Trueplay is broken, they need to fix it.
I love your channel and it is very informative toward SOnos and is software apps too. With regarding to this adjustment for Ver 14.12 volume up and adjustment may seem OK for now but somebody like me sometime will switch between TV audio and Sonos speaker will have to be caution due to volume difference.. Anyway to resolve it will be good.
That's a good point. But the TV audio differences will be the same even if they don't update this no?
Peter, I have the Arc & Sub. Around time stamp 9:50 you explain the drop between 300hz - 400hz. Would not the Speech Enhancement feature compensate for that? I always have Speech Enhancement ON.
That was exactly my thought. But in my testing, I don't enable speech enhancement. Speech enhancement should work somewhere around that region.
I just found your channel. I like that you provide a upfront summary, but I also realized that listening to your "blabbering" makes it feel like talking to a colleguage, specialist, ... a real person. Not the presentation fine-tuned to the UA-cam algorythm, like in the early days here.
I comment you for this. Good Luck.
(I did all a can, watched, liked, commented)
Thank you so much! It’s really appreciated. Sometimes I think about doing things the UA-cam way but I think I’d rather go for quality of viewership than quantity of subs.
Thanks again for the new video! Are these measurements done before or after Trueplay is calibrated?
Before. I don't use Trueplay for testing.
Love your videos. I am about ready to buy into the Sonos systems. trying to decide between arc and beam. This bad update has me wondering if i should even consider the arc now. What's your thoughts? Did the update effect the Beam too?
It affects the Beam too if you have Trueplay on. But on the Beam, you can increase the sub output to compensate. Can't do that for the Arc. But again, this is temporary and should be fixed really soon!
@@PeterPee thanks. i am going to wait until it's fixed for sure before buying because i am still not sure if i want the Beam or Arc. I like the Beam but would like to have atmos up firing speakers.
Just to sum things up. It doesn't matter how you like your EQ settings. After the update you can 't use Trueplay that was the main selling point for Sonos. It was also the reason why most people bought this system. Now I can experiment with the settings but it is NOT what I've paid for. I paid for top of the line system and got an avarage equipment with high price. Sad but True.
Very frustrating
Hold on tight... I believe they will be fixing this soon. If they don't, I will have to set up a petition amongst all you viewers!
I was just at the point to return my Sonos Arc because I noticed in the last month or so a change in the volume. I tried to do everything I changed my account i unpaired my surrounds and the sub,i reset the bar multiple times, I deleted my account, I did a retune with 3iPhones nothing made the volume higher as it was before.
Before i was comfortable at volume 15-20 now I gotta switch it to 40.
Thank you so much for clarifying that it was an update.
Sonos me what the hell are you doing???
I was this close to switch brands from Sonos to Bose I still find it unacceptable what they are doing
Oct, you brought up a very good point. In fact, I think if they told everyone in the release notes that the volume will be reduced, it would have saved a lot of guesswork and wonder.
I sold my Arc before this change. I'm starting to worry every time there's an update now. Sometimes you have no choice but to update.
Don't worry la. If it is a bug they should fix it. If they leave it broken it will hurt them.
So many people complained that Sonos speakers are too loud at night. Even with 1% volume set. Maybe 14.12 is the answer for them? It would be interesting to investigate what is going on when you listen to the music with the lowest volume level set?
1% volume is too loud? I think I might need to get my hearing checked. Cos I can't hear anything at 1%. :D
@@PeterPee I believe some small bedroom without backgound noises at deep night could be a real anechoic chamber. :D
Excellent informative video,
I have a question, I have a sonos beam and 2 sonos 5, the sonos 5 are connected also to a turn table, what is the best way to keep the surround effect from the beam and also listen music from the turn table without unable the souround effect??
That's the problem it currently has now. There is actually no way to do it. When paired together as surrounds, the 3.5mm input gets disabled.
@@PeterPee thanks for your reply
Peter, I see that 14.14 was just released. Does it fix things?
Hey Peter, did you maybe had a chance to test the TruePlay on Arc (without Sub).
In my case it doesn’t work at all after 14.12 update. No difference in sound output while toggling the TruePlay. I was i contact with Sonos support and thay said that’s because of 14.12 😳
Really? They are now coming out and saying it's 14.12? On the one hand I hope so, but on the other hand, I hope they are not just blaming it because everyone is blaming it for anything wrong now.
I haven't had the chance to test the Trueplay yet. Time's been tight for past 2 weeks. I hope to get round to it soon!
@@PeterPee yes, I spent 2 hours on support call. Sent them diagnostic reports with/without TruePlay enabled. Prior to the call, I I did a factory reset of Arc and Sub and removed Sub completely from the system.
On 14.10 I could hear significant change in the sound output with the TruePlay enabled.
No, literally nothing! That’s quite disappointing and on top of everything, they didn’t mention that in their statements.
Without TruePlay, the Arc is not what it was. :(
@@cyclesix I did a quick test just now after reading this. I can hear the difference when toggling true play on and off. I'd probably say not as pronounced as pre 14.12.
For a novice like me I'd bring the simple approach of asking does that mean the "out of the box" 14.12 setting gets the sonos set up to a very accurate place across all listening environments? You hear no difference, I hear some difference not as much, what's your listening space compared to mine? I'm in a 4m x 4m room with arc, sub and 2 x 1's....
I'm still on the fence about the overall change but it's looking like I'm on the side of liking it.... it's also now made me seriously consider a second sub which I've been thinking about for a little while now, not for the extra bass but for balancing the atmosphere.... HA! is that their ulterior motive for the change? Sell more hardware?
Hi Peter
Hopefully once Sonos fix the issues, I look forward watching what you think after testing and perhaps you will do another "best settings" once everything is as it should be. I think you planned to do one but have held off for now?
I have held off that's correct. I don't have the confidence that they are going to stick to this sound profile.
@@PeterPee Yeah for sure, hopefully next update is good and they don’t tweak it anymore. I dislike when they tweak sound profile too much, you settle on something and then they change it.
I noticed the sub-bass on my Sub dropped quite a lot, but there seems to be quite a big bump in the midbass range, or the TruePlay isn’t effecting the sub bass much (if at all), but the midbass is getting all the adjustments/ boosts instead
Mid bass bump tends to be there to help out with dialogue, especially male voices.
I said this before but I don't think they should implement a parametric EQ. They are VERY complex to use. A simple 6-10 fixed band EQ would be better for more people. Even six bands, low/high bass/mid/high would be sufficient IMO and I think Sonos would be much more likely to go for it because it is easy for more people to understand.
In a perfect world of course, they'd implement pro-mode that gives us the option to choose between, 6-band; 10-band and Parametric. Then everybody would be happy!
Ok that I understand what you are saying. True it's not going to be easy... and there's a perfect opportunity for someone unfamiliar to mess up the sound completely if they don't know what they are doing.
Bought the Arc and put it back in the box and it's in my closet. The Playbar is superior in my book, that with the sub and 2 ones...is perfect.
The Arc will cater to newer connections through the HDMI ARC or eARC port... But in terms of sound quality, I guess if you are more into Music, the Playbar might actually be better. Warmer sound.
This guy is the GOAT.
Thanks Steve!
I was all keen on getting the Arc and Sub for our new house, but I don't like the fact that a single update can radically change the audio experience. Does this happen frequently because I will need to look elsewhere if it does?
To be fair, this is probably the first time it has happened. Previously the Arc launched with a bass issue, but they fixed it, rather than broke it.
Hi Peter... Do you have any recommend eq settings for Arc x2 gen 3 subs and x2 sonos 5's. I followed you old settings but they not optimal anymore after the update
How do you find 2 subs? I'm contemplating a second.
@@jb7753 I had the one sub for a while first, let me just say its a night and day difference. Depends on placement but it can make a huge improvement. I have mine diagonal front and back
@@jackofalltrades4091 good to hear also on the placement if ( when I do get another one) I'd place one front right and rear left. Cheers mate. Take care 👍
The placement will really depend on the room. And also, if your room isn't any bigger than say 15' by 20', maybe resist the temptation a little. One is more than good enough.
At 21:20, when you mentioned that you’re invested in Sonos, did you mean in their stocks or products? :)
Both. :) I am scared by the recent drop. Thankfully I don't have much invested. But when they pick up and they should, I'd be lamenting I didn't.
@@PeterPee Same with me. I only own 200 shares as of now. But may buy more if it drops even lower.
I’d like to be able to control the mid and dialogue more. My issue is watching a movie I have to turn it up to hear the dialogue and then when there is music or something loud that happens it is wayyy to loud overall and I have to reduce overall volume.
That's actually a common problem with a lot of sound bars, and even traditional systems.
how about the fives for music bro? is it also impacted by sonos 14.12 update? should i add the sub also to the fives ? thanks bro
For the Fives, you really don't need the Sub. It does little. Some improvements but really not worth the value. The Fives' bass is really good already.
It would be amazing if the sonos amp could be assigned to additional speakers for better atmos…. Height or in ceiling channels
Oh I have been waiting for that EXACT feature! I wanted the amp powering my ceiling speakers to be added as real ATMOS heights channels!
@@PeterPee maybe a mini amp would be the best application for this ?!
Hi Peter. Does your recommended sub changes assume tune has been run?
My testing done without trueplay. I can't do the test with Trueplay cos not everyone has access to it.
Should we have loudness on or off since this latest update? I have arc, sub and 2 one's. I am one of the unlucky ones whose sub is now terrible
Better to just turn off trueplay. Keep loudness as is.
I am so frustrated with the update. I have a smallish media room running arc, two gen 3 subs and ones for rears. The sound stage was very impressive. Bass level in my EQ settings at -2 and sub level at 0. After the update, to get any decent bass I have had to change to bass +4 and sub level to +14. These settings are closer to what I use to enjoy but the sound and the punch from the base is no where near what it was. I am an avid movie watcher and I am at the point where I do not enjoy watching anything now. If Sonos do not fix the issue soon, I will have no other option but to sell my two Arc's, three gen 3's and four one sl's and find something that suits my needs.
You will have to increase the volume. And since you are on the Arc with Subs, you'd have to turn off Trueplay for now too. Else the Subs are being rendered useless.
I think their big mistake was not releasing the submini first instead of the Ray. Now the economy sucks, Google filing a lawsuit, the CFO is resigning, stocks are down and from what I read the submini has been delayed It's not looking good for Sonos
I suspect that the Sonos Sub Mini might have been dependent on their Mayht acquisition so it didn't make it in time... But they ought to know everyone is waiting on that.+
Thanks Peter,
I checked my software and the automatic update took me to 14.12. The strange thing is That had a message that said I had a software update pending. I did the update but was still at 14.12.
Not sure what is going on
Also got a message to rerun TruePlay.
Huh... My update was clean as in it went through without a hitch... But whether the update was good or not, debatable la.
I've always liked having a 7-band EQ at least, to tweak my way
In a full traditional setup, there is an EQ for EACH of the channels... I suppose we aren't asking for too much for a system wide (all channels) EQ right? :D
Its not only the ARC, its also the BEAM, i got Beam + Sub Gen 3 + Symfonisks and SUB got nefred big time, i dont hear the low lows.
I didn't get the problem with my Arc, so I moved it over to the beam (both Gen 1 and Gen 2) and I didn't get the problem either. I believe it doesn't affect everyone.
Audífonos Sonos? Ufff espero hagas una comparación con los SONY XM4
I even bought the XM5 just to be ready to compare it with the Sonos headphones! Assuming they launch it...
I've finally found the time to reset the sub after the recent update. Bass volume is not much better. No Truplay done yet.
When you do trueplay, it will remove the sub's output drastically.
It is not only Truplay that is broken. Even without Truplay the Arc and sub combination is faulty. Seems to me that the bug is connected to the Arc and Truplay since the Ray and Beam are not affected.
You deserve 500k subs at least.
Your kindness is immeasurable. This made my day. I will work hard to earn that.
Thank you again very much for this helpful video 🙏
Let's hope there will be a fix soon. I already found out, switching Trueplay off, like recommended by Sonos, the Sub was more punchy. I ended up with the settings exactly like you suggested with the bass at -2 and sub-level at -3. When listening to music, what I noticed, was that the voices where a bit narrow. When turning Trueplay on, they become more spatial, but at the cost of the rest from the frequency range. What I did to compensate, was setting the rears (One SL's) from 'acoustic' to 'full' and lowered the volume 4 notches. Now I have compensated that narrow effect with true play turned off and the rears are not overpowering.
That almost confirms my suspicion that they did not update trueplay to deal with the updated sound profile.
@@PeterPee Sounds like the trueplay is Trying to compensate the high output in the frequenties during calibration. I’m considering buying a microphone myself to measure this in my environment. Can you advice which microphone and software you are using? I think if you measure this with trueplay on, the lower frequencies are way behind the rest, which explains so many people are complaining about the low output from the sub.
I hate being the baba jaga but when it comes to bass you don't want high bass you want deep bass and that's right of people saying that the bass has been reduced and diminished That's all right, because if you go up and not down, it's already a very strong reduction in sound as far as bass is concerned and 5DB or 3DB are very much in audio, as far as volume is concerned, it's also 1dDP is a lot 0.5 0.3DP is little and OK to work for fine-tuning, anything above that is a lot in terms of changes. And I really don't know what to do with the new sound system. I think, if Sonos doesn't come with an update I'm going to buy the Bose 900 system and sell Sonos which would be a shame for Sonos and the company. They would lose so many customers, just the trust would be gone. And the Costumers would not buy new sound system from them any more because it's a scam.
I believe the patch should come anytime now... They have been religiously following a monthly release pattern of update this year (2022). And we are already mid way through the month....
@@PeterPee Good to know thanks :>
Funny. Without any measurements I played the Dolby Atmos fragment en lowered the bass and sub settings as well just by listening to it.
That's cool! You've got a good ear.
Whats new in version 14.14?
Hello i have have the arc and the sub.
Now i have 20% make it louder in volume.
Yeah, you do have to increase the volume setting to get the same perceived volume as before the update.
In my opinion it was better before the update.
No issues with the Beam gen 2 , + Sub,
Yes, the Beam Gen 2 is unaffected.
They’re probably trying to make the bass sound worse to they can offload stock of their subs to free up warehouse space for the sun minis
I am thinking... maybe every big sub they sell, they can stock in 4 sub minis?
I have my sub set at +10 after the update. I tried -2 bass and -3 sub but those settings sound the same as the arc alone. So i slowly increased the sub until I heard a big difference. Anyone else run the sub that high or am I going to blow out the subs that high?
Yes the bass from the sub has been muted somewhat. Not as impactful as before. The crossover between the Arc and sub could have been affected during the update.
I run dual gen 3's and I am now at +14 to get any, what I call, decent bass. I've had to increase the bass in the EQ settings from -2 to +4.
Yeah this bug is crazy. Not a good year for Sonos users.
You won't blow out the sub. But the sliders aren't doing anything at all right now if you have Trueplay on.
What was the point of that update? It degraded the product. Are they going to release another update to fix this problem. I was wondering what changed the sound. When you setup the Sonos Arc the first thing they force you to do is update the software.
Yeah, that happens for new setups too. They always check for latest firmware updates.
Not like the new 14.12 update.
It was better before.
Let's hope they rush this out fast!
I hate it I don't even watch movies no more until they fix this mess. If its not fix its the last time I buy Sonos products.
I am confident they will do something about it. Just not sure if it is going to be something you and I can accept. :)
Ever since the update my sound will fluctuate on it’s own. Not happy with this update at all.
Fluctuate within the same source material? On its own?
@@PeterPee While listening to music it will start at normal and then get very loud with no warning. It never did this before the update.
👍🇸🇪
Hej!
I have to say this 14.12 update really didn’t impact me. Running arc, 2x gen 3 subs, and 2x SLs. I’ve noticed minor volume drops but nothing bad
What if you remove one bass from the configuration? Will you notice a big drop in Sub output?
@@TheGichnni
Because of my room set up being large, it makes the bass level feel uneven. Or slightly lacking
@@mcguireoutdoors5187 that is exactly why I'm considering a second sub to balance it out. That said though, my listening space is only 4m x 4m. I've been considering a second sub for a while now but worried I'd b adding too much bass. But with this update (which I'm thinking I'm liking) I think it will fit in nicely to balance the room out. Where do you have your second sub placed?
You might want to consider repositioning the sub into a corner for some bass reinforcement before you commit to another sub!
@@jb7753 as Peter said I have each of mine in the corner of the room. For me running the opening of the sub parallel with the wall. About 4 inches away from touching walls. If that makes sense
My Sonos sounds must better whit your setting , your Voice Sound not so mutty anymore
That's great to hear! Glad I was able to help a little!
Sonos is such an unethical company. First they bricked their first models and now this?
To be fair, they did reverse the bricking...