Cardo Custom Subscriptions! Good or Bad?
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- Опубліковано 4 лис 2024
- Cardo, a manufacturer of motorcycle bluetooth helmet coms has now released a headset with a subscription based system. Subscriptions can either make sense and be ok or they can be terrible! Where on the scale they sit depends on how you look at it.
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I will never buy a subscription for a product that I physically own. If I have something in hand I will own it outright or not at all. I love my Cardo PackTalk. I would have never considerred switching to Sean before, but I will switch to Sena rather than replace my Pack Talk with something requiring a subscription.
I'm glad you're covering this... I'd totally buy into the idea of they weren't charging the close to the same price as previous models!! I don't use DMC very often at all (once a year maybe...) But I listen to music almost every time. I think it's outrageous that they're charging so much for the unit when they're also charging for the previously standard features.
Thanks, I have a feeling many won't talk about this as they do not want to lose the chance of working with them. As it turns out, if you are honest with reviews or are in any way critical for a product the offers just stop coming. I will burn any bridge rather than become a shill for anyone. Ads and reviews are fine as long as it is all honest.
"So what you are saying is that your product is capable of all these things right out of the box, and you are using software to cripple it in order to wring more money out of me as a customer? Yeah no thanks. Keep it."
I will stick to my fodsport fx6. Bought it 4 years ago for £70, can listen to music, take a phone call and connect to another intercom. That's all I need.
how loud are the speakers at 70mph? That was always the downside of the cheaper ones in the past.
@spicy110 the speakers are really good tbh. I have music on all the time and even at high speed I can hear just fine. Took a call at 60pmh and the other person thought I was sat at home, had no idea I was out. I actually bought a 2nd set of speakers and mic for my 2nd helmet.
Nice! Good to hear they are good now. I had the old BT intercoms at one point, over 30mph you might as well not bothered.
I'm using a fodsport for calls and navigation. Haven't had the chance to link to another rider yet. I've had mates call me and ask what I was up to that were surprised when I said I was on my bike. They thought I was sat at home
These cheapo ones work great generally, my Sena's speaker stopped working got few of the cheaper ones and they're just as good for everyday music, bluetooth.
I use the CARDO SPIRIT HD and its got all the features I need intercom to have at very low price. Cost me £110 when it was on sale. I tend not to ride in large groups or have passenger to talk to. So dont need any of this fancy mesh systems features. As long as I can listen to music and satnav and occasionally take the odd call this headset is perfect for me. Speakers are quite good and still able to connect to one other cardo or even other brand intercom if I wish.
I have an old Cardo headset which I mostly use to chat to other riders who have them too. It's always just worked over Bluetooth. I can't imagine having to pay for the service.
Waves at Cardo employees "hello you industrious little chaps"
If they want to charge me a subscription. I expect the headset to be reduced in price by a good amount... I always find Cardo under $250 USD... Like GoPro subscription, it adds a warranty, unlimited storage and a few other things. I really hate the new pay for a subscription for hardware you own.. Like BMW heated seats. It's not like they are adding hardware to the car after purchase. It is already included (physically) and I am already paying a premium for it.
yer if it was like $100 I could see the argument.
2nd Channel is for satnav as well as use of intercom at the same time 👍
Got you! Thanks for clearing that bit up!
It interesting you mentioned about not owning anything. I've got a large music collection on CD's when the music services came out people were loving Itunes etc how you didn't need CD's anymore. I was reading a new article yesterday about how many of the song selling sites have been closing down and wondering how much longer Apple will keep Itunes around in it current format. It seems now music streaming is the thing that everyone is changing to. It make me wonder what will happen to all those people with very large online collections. And if your think you will keep them, I remember when book reader tablets were all the rage and one of the larger companies shut down it service and all those that had them lost their book collections on their tablets. Meanwhile I'll keep my CD's and rip my favorite songs to a memory card for my phone car etc and carry one ;-)
Can you do a video about everyday mundane things about riding a motorbike? Aka Limitations shopping at a supermarket, when its windy, that one day you decide best take a taxi instead, putting on/off protective gear etc.
Great videos so far!
I have the cardo pack talk , it works fairly well but is not a lot better than the cheap one it replaced.
Only work if they offer continued warranty support for length of sub. Replace battery after 3-4 years of subscription
interesting point about subscription based software features being more palatable, but the whole thing is obnoxious in general. I ride a KTM at the moment and I absolutely will not buy a newer model that utilises this feature subscription sales model full stop. Similarly I'm really interested in electric bikes and was actively trying to work out how to fund a Zero FXE as a commuter vehicle, but I will not purchase form that company whilst they maintain the subscription model - especially as one of their subscription features is unlocking extra range (again no change to the hardware, just derestricting it on payment).
Very bad idea, seen a few people complaining about it. Give it or don’t, and if you are just going to give Mesh, make a unit for it like the Sena ST1 Spider. Keep the other units going that don’t need subscriptions.
But I’d also like to understand, once you add the extra features on, how will they remove them if it’s never connected to the internet/network. Or can’t they.
My guess would be that when you pay you'd get some encrypted 'licence' relating to your device's serial number (or a certificate that's on your device), the features you've paid for, and the expiry date, and then the software enables those features until the licence expires, no further connection needed.
Edit: Having said that, I was then wondering if the devices know what the date is (I haven't got one myself). I was presuming you'd need to connect it to the internet to enable the subscription, and it could get the current date then. Maybe it can get the date via your phone if connected and allowed access? However, if there's no further connection, it could maybe track the time/date internally, but what about if you let its battery go fully flat? Maybe it has a separate small watch battery to keep the clock running, like on the motherboard of a computer? 🤔
If anyone knows how it actually works, I'd be interested to know.
Monthly subscription is fine with no upfront cost and swap if damaged, otherwise no they can keep it.
Splitting hairs pretty thin with the hardware/software argument I think. In every case it's paying extra money to flick an electronic binary switch. All the equipment and software is there to do everything, it just isn't activated until you pay up. Cars and motorbikes might be on a larger scale, but not really any better or worse. I rather suspect the subscription payments will just be used as additional profit, rather than going into R&D.
I dunno, unused heated seats and air con units create pointless e waste and do not need updates to work with new phone systems. Software developments do but equally at the cost of the units they can cover that. If the base headset was like $100 it might make a little more sense.
@@spicy110 By the same token, those heated seats, air con units, etc, are going to be on that vehicle for it's entire life, all things being equal, possibly through multiple owners, the headsets might only be in use for a couple of years, depending on the owner and the latest tech (this is somewhat true of the current units too, but I think to a lesser extent).
I guess a closer comparison to this is actually mobile phones, with the cost of the phone being somewhat separate from the details of the contract/tariff.
I think you might be right about the price, a lower base cost probably would attract more people to it, even with more expensive subscriptions.
I’ve already expressed my opinions on my channel, very against this and have voiced my opinion on Cardo Socials
Have you seen my video after this?
If you are going to charge money after the fact for features a piece of hardware already has in it. The expectation should be that the hardware's price is reduced or non-existent. You either buy goods or you buy services. You don't buy the good and then pay for it more like a service. A service is when you provide something for someone not when you enable access to it.
Yeah it's b.s for the consumer, from a business perspective under the current climate, a subscription provides a degree of financial security for the company. Must of been important enough to risk alienating a relatively small userbase.
I know the exact conversation that sparked this video 😂
Bought a cardo freecom 2 last year around £200 pound mark works fine for me and wife comms and occasional rider to rider comms would I buy the more expensive cardo next time I probably would Would I buy it if I had to pay for subscription not in a million years there are plenty more good com systems out there so cardo could catch a very big financial cold and sena and the like will be jumping for joy.
People are feeling the pinch so they're making their stuff last longer. Companies have noticed this and started this subscription crap to make us pay them anyway. It's the reason why even though the people in the local KTM dealership are lovely I will never buy a bike from them, Cardo have now also joined my blacklist.
My (kind of niche) worry is that subscription services will stifle hardware R&D, and we definitely haven't reached peak Bluetooth headset! When a company sets the expectation that their existing hardware has peaked, and everything else can be achieved through software, less effort is put on making the actual device better. Not just because the company is generating revenue primarily through software, which puts increasing focus there, but also because the consumer is much less likely to be sold on the idea of upgrading their hardware. The headlines are always software features - who cares if I got a slightly bigger range in the latest model, when I can pay £30 a month and have AI message my wife that I'm going to be late, because my lean angle was 10% more than usual.
An idea I thought of. There will always be a group of people trying their best to unlock premium features for people for a small 1-time fee.... now how does cardo plan on fighting it .. or are they just gonna let it slide?
As far as I'm concerned subscription services like this should be illegal. I bought the item, I didn't rent or lease it, I own it, so why would I choose a product where I can't access everything that it does? Imagine buying an oven only to be told that you need to pay the manufacturer an extra £50 to activate the grill, or a camera that restricts what resolutions or ISOs you can use unless you cough up another wedge of cash every year.
If you buy it, you own it, and that should include every function that the product can perform. Charging a recurring cost to 'allow' you to use what you already own should be classed as extortion.
What about Microsoft and their product licences then. You can buy a product but can only use it on one device, oh and you don't own it only the rights to USE it. Also it's not a solid product and needs constant updating. Been doing for years
@@rayletaxi But in that situation you're not buying the product, you're buying the licence to use it (most EULAs, if anyone ever bothered to read them, will state that you do not own the software, just the licence to use it),
It makes some sense from a software perspective to only have to burn one CD/DVD with everything on it, and then only activate the parts that you paid for, because at no point do you OWN the software on the disc. That makes financial sense for the publisher as they only have to produce one version of the disc rather than multiple different copies with different features. Now considering that pretty much every piece of software released these days has no physical media at all, and is downloaded directly from the internet, that business model makes even more sense. I could download every version of Windows 11, or Office365 right now, legally, for free, but to actually use them I would require an appropriate licence.
However in the case of physical hardware, circuits, wires, batteries, heating elements, screens etc, you have already paid for every component, you have bought all of that hardware and it is now your property outright, and for the manufacturer to restrict what parts of your own property you can use is utterly reprehensible and an act of pure greed. I stand by my opinion that it should be an illegal practice.
I'm not disagreeing with you. Just saying it's no different to buying a dell pc with windows on it and it's not a complete system. It's bloody annoying
To be fair the Cardo voice commands work pretty flawlessly. I assume it's because they are fixed expressions not like Google where it's got to figure it out.
Yer as mentioned below I can only go off the ones I have used. I think it might also have something to do with the fact I'm talking in my helmet all the time so more likely to get problems.
Packtalk Bold user here. The voice commands just do not work. At all. "Hey Cardo...". Nothing. Until you don't want them to. When you're chatting and suddenly some synth-woman's voice chimes in asking you the name of the contact to call, and you can't cancel it because the voice commands don't work.
@@throttle_up you need to say the set commands in one go, "hey cardo volume up" it's not an intelligent one like Google or siri, you need to say exactly what it says in the manual. If you only say "hey cardo" it won't go bong like a normal voice assistant. However if it does randomly pipe up under normal use that would frustrate!
However when I say "ok Google" it pings my phone but it then it activates Bixby and she is useless!
@@matt_ken That's what the '...' was for. I didn't want to type a whole command in, because none of them work. That's not the frustrating bit though. What's frustrating, as you say, is when it activates by accident.
I'm starting to think there's something about my voice in particular it doesn't understand.
@@throttle_up My voice commands work flawlessly. Have you changed the voice to UK in the settings as that helps 👍
Don't use it enough for it to be worth a subscription. Amount of use must be a factor.
With the whole eco mode unlocking a extra 20% battery makes me think of Apple and their battery killing “update”.. I wonder how the last gen are performing now or if there’s any difference.. That’s a big jump from Apple to cardo but just a thought non the less
I believe the way they get the extra 20% for the headsets is normally to are looking to receive signals all the time and this eats the batt. The eco mode stops searching after a few mins and this is how it gets to save 20%. Check out the video after this it is rather eye opening if it is as it seems.
As someone that cant afford a cardo, I am open to buying a cheaper version but I don't think it should be a subscription, I think I should be a 1 off payment to unlock the things you need
I use voice commands all the time, it's one of the most useful features of the cardo and putting it behind the most expensive paywall is infuriating. Cardo can get in the fucking sea.
no way. out of principle, i will not buy a KTM nor any further cardo products. I have the freecom 4+ and it's brilliant. when it packs up, ill head to Sena
Well that is stupid, I would just buy a Sena.
If Cardo get away with it and people buy them I can see Sena doing the same,
I can see a subscription model being useful if you are buying second hand, so you don't have to sift through eBay or something looking for a specific model with the features you want. You could just pay extra as a subscription to unlock them. I wonder if companies like Apple will ever do that rather than having Pro models with stuff like 120hz screens or always-on display.
These subscription services on everything is cancer. I remember hearing about those electronic airbag vests selling you a subscription, forgot to pay? Good luck in your unexpected crash.
I absolutely am against this, in the Cardo and with BMW/KTM, I think it is a disgusting practice. What I would be less angry about, would be if they just charged more for a silver/gold/platinum version of the device as a one off fee even though physically, it would be no different but just have the unlocked features, but to charge a fee every year to use something you already have is robbery, especially the battery life.... and it also devalues the second hand market for the device too as the moment you sell it, the new owner is going to have to subscribe... and with this, they are also going to have to give a company GDPR data that in reality, has no business knowing it.
It kind of reminds me of the printer ink thing, where the ink cartridges say they have run out way before the ink has actually run out and stop themselves working.
Bottom line is nothing cardo is doing with this new tier offers benefits the rider. They went from a company riders loved because of what seemed to be their “by the rider for the rider” mentality. They’ve gone corporate and this will surely leave a bad taste in the mouths of riders who use their products myself included. A tier where they unlock 20% more battery life is just disgusting to me. When time comes to look for a new com I’m looking somewhere else
Hate subscription based system. reviews to buy items that are, bad enough buying a product and not owning it fully, IE IPhones where yep you have hardware but software is apple owned and you got to agree to there TOS to use it. As for voice commands, twice you said its not that good, is that Sena only you say that for as Cardo side I will say personally is great, works well, reliable and of course you got the Siri side too with an IPhone which again is so reliable I find.
I am talking about all voice command systems I have ever used but yes mostly based on the Sena in the example. Cardo might have this locked down better now, sadly I have not used one of their headsets since the G4. I will add tho any command I would use I can do with a button press. Also likely a bigger issue for me as I'm always talking in my helmet ha ha
How do you milk sheep.........?
Add extra features? withold certain software?
Add subscription to 'very' popular equipment?
Iphone and KTM??
My £50 bluetooth headset, plays music, I can here sat nav directions, 'will' make calls,
'will' connect to others, all the things I need...........why pay more?
Other than more range, and better sound quality, don't see the point.
Just my opinion.
inb4 cracked cardo platinum
Subscription is NWO, Klaus Schwab, WEF type stuff.
I have a Cardo Packtalk Edge but will never buy another Cardo product after this.
I'm OK with this as long as it's not A. Charging for features that were "built in" on previous models, and B. They're actually providing some service (like the example you gave). I find them saying this is a "software expense" very dubious. That's not a service. The SW was an expense of the product, once it's done it's done. They're not losing money every month providing that "service" to you. But it also might violate "A" because that "2nd channel" thing is a little ambiguous. I don't quite recall if music sharing existed on the cardo before, but I thought it did.
Basically, if I can buy this as-is, pay no subscription & still use the features that existed on the previous one I'm fine. Otherwise, this is a bullshit money grab, especially if they're not providing recurring services to justify it. This shift towards subscriptions for everything is getting really fuckin old tbh, but shareholders and investors want to see MRR, so here we are.
honestly, it's bollocks. If I buy an item, i want all the features of that item. It costs them the same amount of money to produce it. The difference fo me is, if they released an item an new system and with that new system came with new software 3 years down so you don't have to buy a whole new device. I can somewhat get onboard but i beleive it should be a flat fee.
If they released an item and the features are already developed, you have no ongoing R&D costs. This company is legit saying, if you don't pay for the gold package your bluetooth intercom cannot operate as a bluetooth intercom. Sorry what!? and the eco mode is ridicalous, they've done the hard work of making the product a good product and thought, nah lets give them the beta version of the software.
I don't think the heated seats is the best comparsion but maybe more like buying a games console but that games console can only play certain games because it's intentionally has poor optimisation which ofcourse would be absolutely abysmal decision from a company
This is just greed and trying to fleece their customers. It does my nut in paying for subs especially when the original product isn’t up to scratch anyway. I use Sena and their voice command function is painful and remembering the sequence of buttons for different commands is impossible especially for an old addled fart like me.However, If apple offered an AI sub for my sena that would tie in to my phone for stuff then I’d probably sign up because it would almost certainly work and be easy to use.
I won't buy a product that comes with a subscription service this way PERIOD!!!! If I buy a product and you tell me that I've paid for it BUT.... I'm renting its functionality. That's when I'm absolutely out. That's a promise!
Cardo are junk any way. All 3 of mine the button membrane has cracked an allowed water ingress.
Subscriptions are a disgusting practice!
Absolute stupid. Minius the eco mode all these features are in the the Packtalk Bold. For this idea "to work" they need to add proper new features. I'll be sticking with the Bold. Go look at the comments section in the Cardo videos its pretty much predictable.
Well I won't be buying from these now
Check the follow up video...