Is Games Workshop Good or Bad for the Wargaming Hobby?
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- Опубліковано 16 тра 2024
- Games Workshop, the giant of the wargaming industry, has long been a topic of heated debate among hobbyists. On one hand, the company's iconic Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 universes have captured the imaginations of millions of players worldwide, fostering a vibrant and passionate community. On the other hand, Games Workshop's business practices, pricing policies, and exclusive focus on its own intellectual properties have drawn criticism from some quarters. So, is Games Workshop ultimately a force for good or bad in the wargaming hobby?
#gamesworkshop #wargaming #hobby #minatures #warhammer #ChatGPT
I think I agree with ChatGPT... wow I never thought I would ever say that... it's a mixed bag... that being said I do enjoy 40K. I got into war gaming via Battletech here across the pond but eventually played the first edition of space hulk... and I was hooked... I do really appreciate the models... I do appreciate their paint range.. i appreciate their novels... I do not appreciate the retcons... I personally wish they would put more thought into things and have a longer range plan so as to not get into themselves into contradictive spots that then necessitate a retcon. I feel like retcons are just the result of poor planning... likewise I do not appreciate the cost to entry it is pricing some players out of the game and that is unfortunate... I also do not appreciate the fact that they often do not credit their creatives who do such amazing work... but again I am grateful for the memories...
I understand the point of "they popularized the hobby" but that can only really get you so far. Their prices genuinely seem ridiculous, I am only talking about 40k and AoS, Kill Team seems to be on par with other skirmish games from what I've seen. I won't talk about their annoying politics or retcons or any of that since I don't think it is really relevant to what you mentioned (though, I should say that it doesn't seem to help GW either.)
Anyway, I really want to get into 40k and while there are a lot of armies that appeal to me, I love the Sisters of Battle. Apparently, to have a "proper" army you need around 2000 points (though I imagine that friendly gamers can agree on lower points,) alright, cool. When I was checking to see what I would need to get to build an army of 2k points with the Sisters I was baffled, the cheapest I could figure is about $650. When you look at the cheapest army to build, the Custodes, I saw that around $320 could get you to that 2k points. Btw, please keep in mind that none of this is optimal, I was just looking for the cheapest possible way to get 2k points is while buying new boxes. Though I should say I am sure that you can get a few used squads or something from eBay, but calculating with new boxes from third party sellers is just simpler and more consistent for people (not everyone will get that squad they want at 1/2 price.) Anyway, it just seems odd that $50-60 can vary wildly depending on what army you are interested in building and I imagine that quite a significant number of people are put off by that.
I know I might sound salty, which I sort of am I guess, but still, why can't all armies sit around the price point as Custodes? If an army just needs to be a horde army, I would just suggest that a cheaper monopose box be made. Less options for posing = less plastic = should be cheaper. If they really want to keep kits at the $50-60 range, go with the monopose idea and just double up on the models you get. I know I would be really happy with a trade-off like that. 20 monopose sisters for $50-60 (which would equal 200 points) sounds much more reasonable to me. Have the current option for people interested in specific loadouts/strategies in mind, and monopose boxes for more casual players that just want to have their army.
Also, having Space Marines vs -insert other force- as every starter box seems like a downer to me. They could definitely make some bank by making a few different factions fight each other in these boxes. I was listening to the Ciaphas Cain book recently and I thought that Astra Militarum vs T'au could be a cool box to have and they are kind of missing opportunities to rake in some good money. They could just make a "book club" and every X months release a vs box that has the forces in the book fighting each other. I doubt they even need to make new models, just the new artwork for the box and perhaps some narrative missions for the box, besides that they can just add in some pre-existing sprues (though imagine they would monopose them to make it easier to produce) and voila. If they are worried that they would over produce they could do stuff like polls to try to find out people's favorite factions or just make polls on a few different Vs box ideas they have and see which one is more popular.
I keep hearing that GW is a business, therefore X or Y. But it really seems quite silly when they price people out, are apparently going to do another price increase this year, and consistently (from what I keep reading on forums) disappoint fans with their new releases. At this point I think that they really are just banking on their big name and FOMO. I would love to give them money, but when the starter boxes (the combat patrols) have apparently gotten worse as time goes on for pretty much every army, but the price stays the same/increases, it really just seems like greed. I get it, a company can do whatever it wants, etc etc. But smaller companies seem to give more reasonable (and consistent) pricing for their armies. I mean, I know I am just one potentially lost customer, but I am sure I am not the only one that sees the cost for their theoretical army and just sees how much cheddar that is.
As a hobby, comparatively to other hobbies, this one is not expensive. For the value of time spent building, painting, playing with and displaying a $60 box of 5 models, it comes down to cents on the hour. Which, IMO, is cheap entertainment.
@@AzimuthWing I definitely agree, especially when it comes to skirmish games. $50-60 gets you a squad, and perhaps another $50-60 gets you different units to sub in for variety and different playstyles.
I will say that I will stand by my complaint when it comes to 40k. The entry price of a $130~ combat patrol isn't that easy to convince a friend with. Especially when that would only be the beginning (sort of like only buying 1 structure deck in Yugioh.) I will say that I do love the sculpts and attention to detail that GW puts on their models. It's just that I can't really convince any of my friends to gamble on a hobby with the entry price of $130. Especially when I saw that with Star Wars Legion the cheapest way to build any army is still cheaper than anything in 40k (calculating only for maximum points for the least amount of $ for both games.)
I need to be fair though, perhaps 40k/AoS (or any other wargame) isn't the best way to introduce anyone to miniatures, and instead I should have lead with Kill Team or Malifaux (which I convinced them to join me in.) The $50 entry point, the aesthetics, and the crew building was really enticing (especially the cowboy aesthetic.) So, I understand what you mean, but living in a small island, the only way I can get any consistent amount of wargaming in is if my homies join me (which possibly skewed my judgement on 40k's price.) Anyway, thanks for the video and for the reply.
There wouldn't be a wargaming industry without GW. Lets be honest, before warhammer there was what? Napoleonics that almost no one gave a shit about.
As to it's business practices, people can bitch and whine about them all they want, simple fact is EVERY ONE of those people bitching and whining about GW business practices would do the exact same things if they were in the shoes of the GW owners. Every. Single. One.
Like I said at the end of the video, without GW we probably wouldn't have a lot of the other games companies we now have. Most of those that have sprung up in the last 20-30 years were started by former GW staff.
@@KhobaiName one "other" wargame company that's in the same shoes as GW? There is none. There is no other wargame on the market as successful as any single GW game currently in production (including bloodbowl, yeah, I went there). Meaning none of those other wargame companies owners are in the same position as GW's owners. If they were, they would do all the same exact things GW's owners do in regards to pricing, production, and IP protection.
And GW has increased prices nonstop since the early 90's when I first started playing their games. Every 2-3 year almost every product gets a price jump. And as to IP protection, you can pretend it has something to do with going public, but the simple fact is it's not something that has been necessary until recently due to the ridiculous ease of making fanfic and such do solely to technological advancements, and, of course, 3d printing. These issues barely existed 10 years ago, and didn't exist at all 20 years ago.
So you feel free to blame "going public" and those of us with critical thinking skills will just not be silly conspiracy theorists.
Right now.. I´m on the edge honestly.. The bads outweight the goods I think..
I think people forget that GW is a business, and as hobbyists we're not going to like all of the decisions they make. Still they must be doing something right as they've been going since the late 70's and produce the biggest wargame in the hobby. Love or hate them people can't ignore the fact that without the Beomoth we probably wouldn't have the amount of companies producing games and. products for the hobby.
@@irregularmagazine That´s a poor excuse as they should take into consideration, some kind of long livety. Which they don´t. it is more how to get as much money out in the shortest time, even if it means less in the future.
They don´t have enough competition and people are too loyal. Simple as that. Don´t be so sure that will always be a thing though.
@@ja37d-34 It seems that with the big name they can afford to make some bad decisions. I mean, I really want to get into 40k, the world just seems so cool. But if they keep hiking up the prices and retconning stuff (with an added pinch of gaslighting) I would just rather go back to card games or something. Even the combat patrols are quite expensive for the points you get (at least with the armies I am interested in, but especially Sisters of Battle.) So, as interested as I am to get into the hobby the idea of getting a proper army seems like a pie in the sky idea.
@@birddispenser I picked up. a copy of 1st Edition 40K and have started building a 40k in 15mm using those rules. I get the infantry from Vanguard Miniatures and vehicles from a variety of manufacturers.
vanguardminiatures.co.uk/
@@irregularmagazine Thanks for the tip, I have a buddy that has a 3d printer, so I might be able to make that work. If nothing else I could get some neat stuff to paint.