My problem with Rhaenyra is that she was trying to be her uncle Daemon instead of her great-grandmother Alysanne, Westeros's greatest queen. She was kind and gentle, and she learned to listen to people who were considered beneath her because she cared about helping them and their issues, especially women and girls who suffered so much. If Rhaenyra followed her example, she could be seen as her next coming, and many would probably follow her for that reason alone. But she doesn't. As was said in this video, she liked to believe that people would follow her without question even when Rhaenys spelled out the problem with that line of thinking.
Well none of her examples seemed to either. Viserys saw Jaeherys' rule of peace and tried to rule as peaceful as possible, he also knew little of what he was doing. But with that he set the stage for a greater conflict after his reign. Daemon was power and excitement, he represented an escape for her restrictions as a lady, which she never seemed to care for even when the fate of the realm is at stake. I can't blame her, but her and Alicent are two opposite sides of the same coin. Alicent did whatever her father wanted, whereas Rhaenyra's father ended up doing what she wanted. I don't think anyone hyped up her great-grandmother, it's also that we have the more objective view of the reader, where Alysanne was likely overshadowed in public and even family, by the Great King. Rhaenyra's father was too obsessed with his own vision, old Valyria and what people would think of him, where yes it's important that your subjects think well of you, you have the power of dragons both towards war and diplomacy. He used them for neither and thus the House of the Dragon lost its dragons.
I love the irony that she for the first season is being seen as a girlboss taking out the throne from the patriarchal monarchy, but later when she has to choose if another girl should get heritage over her younger brothers she goes for the brothers 💀
Rhaenyra fanboys and -girls seem to have fallen into, what I call, the "Lolita trapp". This in reference to the novel "Lolita" from Vladimir Nabokov in 1955 about the gruesome abuse of a 12 year old girl by a pedophile who got his hands on her by infiltrating into her family and - as heavily implied, yet denied by the unreliable narrator - murdering her mother afterwards. Nabokov however wrote everything from the perspective of the villain, leading many readers to identify with his POV and starting to see the 12yo girl, who is oftentimes hinted at as an absolutely unwilling participant in this "relationship" as some sort of complex seductress. Even Stanley Kubrick and Adrian Lyne - disgustingly enough - adopted this analysis when they turned the novel into movie adaptations. To anyone with a critical eye it was obvious that the protagonist was set up as the bad guy, but people always want to root for the main character, so they start rationalizing even the worst things he does. Same with Rhaenyra and - even more so - Daemon Targaryen. I'm not saying that Rhaenyra is "the villain" in the same way, but it can't be denied that so many people get invested in her simply because the show is setting her up as the main character: - her POV dominates the entire first season; - she and her eventual allies get to manifest the charismatic side of their personalities most of all in the build up towards the conflict (which makes them at least somewhat compelling, even if not displayed as characters which 'to root for'); - her eventual adversaries get the least build up or barely get their motivations explained, this with the exception of Alicent Higthower; - events like the deer that she spares etc. are supposed to hint at her being some sort of "chosen one", even though these things never go anywhere and just seem to be there to fuck with the minds of the audience; - her most favorable depiction (her having sudden doubts about the war) is spared for the climax, maximizing it's impact; - explicit criticism of her personality being self centered and toxic is barely explained in detail or linked to her immediate actions in that moment, making it always look rather randomn (like when Corlys says it) or even petty (like when Criston says it) instead of - at least to some extent - justified. And because she's shown as the protagonist, everybody who's 'on her side' ultimately gets the benefit of the doubt from viewers, who want a clear 'team' to root for. This way the perception of Daemon changes from "he's a menace" in the first two episodes to "he's a daddy" later on, even though his character never really becomes a better man.... Once viewers get passed those first impressions, given in by the above, their opinions on Rhaenyra oftentimes seem to get less favorable: she gets to be seen more as kinda bratty, spoiled, borderline mean, irreceptive to the interests and safety of anyone who isn't part of her own immediate nuclear family, without quarrel about killing an innocent servant or ordering her brother to be tortured right after he lost an eye.... She even doesn't really seem to care about women's rights, given the fact that she has no issue with snubbing Baela or Rhaena in favor of her own son Lucerys when it comes down to the Velaryon heritage question, even though the latter obviously has no real bloodties to House Velaryon. She's just yet another snobby Targaryen princess.... However, people like to stick to rooting for the domineering POV character, leading very few of them to get passed their first impressions. It's basically as if the series have set up the "Lolita trapp", but with the heir to the Iron Throne instead of a pedo creep.
this is probably the best exemplification of what happened in this series, the producers of this series distorted what was the message of the story into the exact thing that the story criticizes, for me Rhaenyra is clearly a subversion of that is not just because a character is a good revolution within society that the character himself is a great defender of a cause and a good person, Game of thrones exemplified this perfectly with the dialogue between Cercei and Joffrey in episode 3 of season 1, Joffrey wants to replace the system of feudal armies to create a army loyal to the crown and much more organized and well trained, is this a revolution in the wuesteros political system that would be extremely beneficial overall (does this make Joffrey a good person?) absolutely not!
And I dare to say the only reason Alicent is the exemption, because writers know that the audience eats up Rhaenicent. They even seem to have changed Alicent’s personality/character further in season 2 to have more scenes about or alluding to their bond, love and falling out, and regrets etc.
In regards to Laenor, this is a good example of Rhaenyra acting out of passion and inability to make decisive decisions. One, if she knew he preferred men she could have told her father that and suggest that she instead marry another member of House Velaryon. Two, even later on when it seems Laenor is infertile instead of cheating ,a divorce on the grounds of infertility could have happened and she again could have married another Velaryon. The Harwin affair was out of passion and ultimately short-sightedness; Rhaenyra simply wanted Harwin and didn't think about anything else. Also given Jace's and Luke's ages it seems the Harwin affair began very soon after her marriage to Laenor, well before any fertility issued could be firmly established.
Viserys should have scolded her ass and kept a watch. Even if Otto was lying about her behavior unbecoming a princess, even the very rumor is a giant threat to their line. And that she needed to be perfectly careful. But for him it was too easy to turn a blind eye to the daughter who is the very image of the wife he loved so much but selfishly sacrificed for a son. But he 180d too hard and didn't care at all about his actual son even though at the very least he should've been conscious to the fact that Aegon may challenge her or be propped up, so he would have to ensure bonds between them or at least something more concrete than "YOU'RE FAMILY DAMN IT GET ALONG" for 20 years.
Well in the book she does say that she thinks Laenor would prefer her brother (aegon) over her. But they didn't include that in the show because they're somehow trying to present Rhaenyra as some progressive.
I don't even think it was infertility. From Rhaenyra's words abt the sexual encounters with Laenor (where she said they tried but didn't specify if they actually did it)it's seems like it was mostly Impotence. And most Impotence is related to sexual attraction. So since he is gay he wasn't upto doing it with her when they tried. Maybe She would have gotten angry with rejection or frustrated and ran for the next best option. That's what she did when Daemond ran half way into their encounter and she switched to Criston immediately without a thought.
I knew Rhaenyra was a narcissist ruler from her tour around the kingdom. It displays her very toxic pride. She might've been more rounded out by the writers but the subtleties of how she treats the other nobles of the kingdom makes it obvious. She expects fealty, but never gives any due respect for those that give there word to honor her reign. She thinks the flow of power starts and ends with her, and she's wrong. And that is to say nothing on how she treats commoners as exemplified in how she treats Sir Christen Cole.
@@dielol8172 that's Fair, but it's not just "Aegon 2," there's his mother, His Grandsire, Ser Cole, the last of the Strongs, and arguably his brother who can pick up the slack. Of a drunken puppet king. He is an objectively terrible person, no argument there, but he's surrounded by very compotent people. I have no idea how he's going to fair in the future.
Why her father didn't have her by his side and ruling as his hand is minds boggling. Having her there would have given her a chance to learn to rule and helped ease her into ruling with the small folk.
Rhaenyra is the privileged feminist. She can do we she pleases, the worst things she does in her youth only earn her a slap on the wrist, metaphorically speaking. People who just defend her no matter what baffle me. Because she is no Arya, she is not even a Sansa. She is a "I wanna live my way until it actually impacts me".
In Fire & Blood at least it honest depiction. She just another player. She sympathetic because she loses her children, & sexism. But Fire & Blood there no hint that she this morally righteous person on the show. She isn’t Maegor with tears as common folk will later describe her but she isn’t no Daeron the Good. One of my biggest frustration is Alicent & Rhaenyra relationship them being childhood friends who became the most bitterest of enemies I thought wow that compelling because both are in wrong & right. Alicent did marry her dad & is tryna to actively steal the throne that her father the king named her heir. While Rhaenyra did lie to her on her mother grave & as Otto said correctly Rhaenyra or someone in her faction will murder her children to secure her hold on the throne. But show backtracked & robbing of them that agency. These women besides Viserys & Ser Criston Cole are most responsible for Dance. Yet the show robs them of responsibility.
At least one of her children would likely still be alive if she and her father had punished him over mutilating Aemond. Highly doubtful Aemond would have become what he was, or remained vindictive for years later if there had been some form of punishment over it.
It was a debt , taking aemonds eye was a debt Luke incurred Like all debts they have interest which compound with time At the time Luke died his life had become the price to repay that debt
Doing the lords work here my man. I'm not team green but this video is chef's kiss, Rhaenyra did nothing and expected everything. It's not fair she has to be this perfect angel to people want her in the throne but it's her reality
Yeah, you and us all have talked about this before, but the bit with the lords at storms end is really telling. For how her succession would go. She doesn’t inspire confidence and she comes across as capricious and petty. Granted she is a teenage girl and many of the suitors are ridiculous both to her and us (too old, too young, too poor, not being her shady uncle) But the way she goes about putting them down is again, telling. She spends the entire time dunking on these poor lords. Good example. Lord Dondarrion. Not too powerful on their own, but they are a proud and powerful force in the marches, and they take pride in their generational efforts to protect the marches. He is too old, but he traveled to storms end and got put down and publicly humiliated. Too many Dondarrions and Brackens and Crakehalls and Peakes and it doesn’t matter if you have the lords of the realm backing you. You’ve been outnumbered and they’re too busy fighting their vassals to send help. Finally the impression that this gives to the public. Borros Baratheon, is hissed and spat by crowds in bars watching this show for going back on his fathers oath, but he was probably there when she roasted half the bachelors in Westeros because she was bored and then started a deathmatch. Then all he heard was all the rumours and the news from kings landing and Dragonstone, and then she wants him to march into fire and blood to put her on the iron throne because my father promised and because she says that her children are related to him WHICH THEY OBVIOUSLY AREN’T. She was setting herself up in her youth and by the time she realised it was too late.
Yes! This part about what happened in storms end is so true. Imagine what Borros father had to deal in the aftermath of the Bracken and Blackwood fight because she didn't know how to de-escalate the situation. Impression is reality and the impression she passes is not very good.
The Baratheons were snubbed by the Iron Throne in 101, then - unlike with the Velaryons - Viserys never tried to mend the divide, largely because Otto kept presenting them as unreliable (likely to futher his own machinations). Episode 1 briefly shows this at the tournament. Both Viserys and Rhaenyra severely misjudged their relationship with Storm's End.
True she could be a pretentious and sometimes rude little princess, but it's also endearing to watch her say and do more as she wants in this deeply patriarchal society. Also not one single mention in the video of how she was the only one preventing war before Luke was killed by Aemond.
Rhaenyra was not politically savy. If she was she may have gotten the Iron Throne without the Dance of the Dragons. Her marrying Daemon was also a big political mistake since people did not want Daemon to be king.
Lol the real question she should ask herself is that if her mother actually gave birth to a son, would her father still made her heir to his throne … or if her father had remarry another taeygarean would she had been considered, even if she was the first child … she’s literally an opportunist, viserà dint name aegon his heir because he was bias and maybe because he told her about the prophecy already … that’s all I can say in defense of visereys but he’s propably the second worst king after the mad king …
I also wonder if Baelon survived and until he was of age he named Rhaenyra heir then decided not to change the sucsession. Many theories can spawn from this. Like what if he remarried and and still had children with Alicent. What would Baelons personality be like and what would be his reaction to the sucsesion battle
Someone said it finally. Even Viserys could see it. He says it repeatedly, especially when she won't decide who to marry, she's just contrarian and stubborn. If he had forbid her to marry a Lannister, she would have immediately absconded with him, eloped and married him.
She is A TEENAGER. For fuck's sake. Did you... seriously neither date teenage girls in highschool whose dads might not have liked you or who did risky shit because they felt invincible? That is, lmfao, the entire point of being a teenager. And Robb can behead sons of loyal bannermen and teenage Jon can hang little boys, but oooh no, a teeange girl didn't want to marry an arrogant prig. The hypocrisy of male so-called "fans" like you is really telling. Say you hate women louder, please. She is by no means a saint but really, her father forced her against her will to be the heir, then wed her to a gay man who would never get it up for her and expected her to punch out babies like he expected it of her mother--for which, by the way, he MURDERED her mother. What the hell was she supposed to do except "go forth and multiply"... with someone she held a tenderness for and trusted? Jesus. This fandom crucifies her not for her actual personal faults, of which there are many, but mainly for being a) a teenager girl when Arya said the same shit re: getting married and you people ate it up and b) not raping her gay husband to force his likely infertile self to give her children. I just can't.
Certainly not a Revolutionary.(at least, not in the sense of the movement described itself). If she becomes Queen, women won't suddenly "overcome the Patriarchy". Shoot, she evene offered her sons in marriage ti Rhaena and Baela, and she tells Princess Rhaenys that "their sons will rule after them". Stating that this whole "female heir" thing she's got going on is exclusive, for the most part, to her and her alone. Daddy's precious princess gets her way, and she's special. So rules don't apply to her... or so they thought.
Rheanyra wants to take the samethings she will never give , some people think she's a feminist revolution leader , she's not she was not feminist in the matter of her son succession to driftmark , she's just a selfish person
I’ve always had a distinct feeling that people only support Rhaenyra because she is a woman, and in this Woman=Good, Man=Bad narrative Hollywood/the West is pushing, she’s the side to root for because people think she’s gonna make sweeping changes to Westeros for women. There’s a lot of TB fans due to this, but they forget to judge whether Rhaenyra herself is a competent and able leader and surrounded by competent and able councillors. Unfortunately, if you delve into the latter two points, the Dance clearly shows Rhaenyra’s ineffectiveness and incapability of making active, firm decisions. She never rides Syrax into battle, and makes dumb decision after dumb decision. Her councillors are selfish and self-interested, and Daemon’s reputation and penchant for violence does her no PR credits. Rhaenys was killed off too early because Rhaenyra was stupid enough to send her alone without backup when they know the other side has VHAGAR, and Corlys’ faith in Rhaenyra dwindles rapidly after his wife’s death. Jace sets off to save his brothers ALONE, when Rhaenyra could’ve ridden Syrax-a larger and older dragon than Vermax-to battle to help save her own fucking kids and protect Jace’s back. But no, this shows again, Rhaenyra’s resemblance to Viserys’ style of ruling, which is too much passivity and lack of firm action.
I don't look at her as a revolutionary in my eyes and all my opinions, she will never be that based on her actions alone and her behavior. She's no revolutionary, but she does carry the heavy burden on her back that her father passed on to her. She does take after her father more than she takes after anyone taken after her father and being groomed by her uncle are bad combination from what we've seen, but as from what we have seen in Westeros, which is worse, the people in the Realm or the people that rule the realm. There are some of her actions that I disagree with, and I do not condone the one about Kristen. Cole is the one that I heavily agree with because her lust overtook her sense of responsibility, and she does not see that she turned a very loyal asset into a catastrophic weapon: her negligence of the people, her deceitful lies about her son, and her reckless behavior. It's all wrapped up by her father, who failed to teach her, but more so, it also comes from the fact that no one on the small council bothered to teach or coach her. They neglect and ignore her, so her rebellious nature is understandable. People always overlook the small things that can always push the big things. I support her but I'm not blind to her wrongdoings, I believe that it's her father's actions and the actions of everyone around her that make her rebel.
To think she could have appeased the Velaryon's by backing Rhaena/Baela's claims to Driftmark, cementing absolute primogeniture, honoring Laena. But nah
Although new, he is by far among the best when it comes to analyzing this show and specifically its characters. Far too many ppl fundamentally struggle because they: 1 Can't suspend their disbelief (In other words, look at the story in the context of the storyworld instead of under the lens of today's debatable standards: Ppl who say "Viserys *killed* Aemma" are a prime example) 2 Can't grasp the notion that "Heroes & Villains" rarely apply in TWOIAF. This isn't their childhood cartoons showing the story of a protagonist who is always "the good guy". 3 Morally ambiguous characters (this ties into my 2nd point). There are 2 basic things to consider when viewing a character; their actions and their reasoning behind their actions. Benevolent intentions can cause malevolent acts and malevolent intentions can cause benevolent acts. Therein lies the ambiguity of character morality. 4 One can reasonably understand/relate to a character BUT that doesn't mean the character is right or "the good guy". Far too many ppl will look at someone like Rhaenyra and attempt to "justify" her and/or her actions but that overlooks the purpose. The goal should be to "understand" the characters. The reverse is also true where ppl will hear/see the worst vile acts of someone *out of context* (context makes a massive difference), and will immediately demonize them. These same flippant ppl would be siding with "the Villain" if the story was told from their perspective (although they would swiftly deny that bursting bubble) which shows their lack of comprehension and self awareness.
I honestly don’t understand why anyone expects her to be perfect in every way in order to be liked and worthy or the throne or just to be a great respected character in general she has such high expectations in general which I think is unfair cause if you look at the like of Jaime Lannister or Tyrion Lannister in general they are some of the most liked characters regardless of their faults so why can’t rhaenyra or other be the same ?
Exactly! Also, you certainly shouldn't expect her to be perfect ruler when she was in midst of war and world was collapsing on her head! Every ruler makes controversial decisions during war.
It simply is the mentality of she does her own thing and goes against the traditions of the realm, then still expects all the benefits of it to be handed on a plate well not doing much to earn it. From there now all these mistakes are piling up and she is taking dangerous paths to ensure her mistakes are kept under wraps. My issues with her and similar characters is entitlement, as they just expect the whole world to cater for their needs, well they go break every rule from the system they want no part in and kill those who question it.
@@spartanoreo5075 Which was rule broken by her? Viserys broke tradition by naming her his heir while he had living son - that's all. And show-Rhaneyra doesn't do "nothing". In fact she is very active as Princess - she get back egg from Daemon in diplomatic way, she also is part of Royal Council, she even stays for decade in King's Landing. She also resigns of idea of remaining unmarried - she accepts that if she wants be successor, she must have an heir of her own, as thi is duty of every ruler. I am very tired of people syaing "she does nothing", when she does EVERYTHING that Crown Princess is suppose to do. She serves in council, she gave birth to heirs... what else she is suppose to do? Rhaneyra in book might have indeed act very entitled, but show-Rhaneyra is very dutiful.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518she has 3 bastard kids. Antagonizes her uncle in front of her future in laws. Putting a bastard on the iron throne. The realm believes she had her first husband killed n marries her uncle immediately after her husband death. Wasn’t in king’s landing for 6 years hasn’t build any alliances, n supports a law that STATES ITS TREASON TO TALK ABOUT MY TREASON. Rhaenyra is an imbecile.
@@jjosifovic The one who is "imbecile" is you. She has legitimate kids that are acknowledged by her husband who was UNABLE to have kids. How else she suppose to have en heir??? "Antagonizes"... WHAT???? She didn't put "a bastard" on Iron Throne. Her children are legitimate in eyes of law. The ONLY person who could denounce them is Laenor - and he didn't, so case is closed. "Realm believe" - that is BELIEF. None can prove this. Also - I don't think realm cares anyway. "Wans't in King's Landing for 6 years" - okay, let's ignore she lived her for TEN years. "States its terason to talk about my treason" - NONE can prove her any treason, so yes - it is TREASON to besmudge her name and legitimacy of her children as NONE can prove they are not legitimate. So, yeah. You are imbecile. You're welcome.
I have the to agree with all your points the hypocrisy that comes from Green side baffles me. Fans give Rhaenyra a halo effect and literally ignore her flaws. I like her as a character but her fans drag it. But I think it comes from the books, we definitely don’t see all the layers to her in the books and Aliecent is a lot older i. the books which really paints her to be that evil step mother. This show makes their friendship a foundation which I think people forget . It’s okay tho Rhae has flaws she’s definitely going to reap what she sows and I’m team chaos so I can’t wait to see the reactions 😈
Viserys, should not have gotten remarried and then didn't even make her his hand, thus helping her establish her foothold of power. And this is when he decides to ignore marrying brother to sister? This all goes back to viserys. And one dragon in all that time before
@@Simon-A.-Tan That would be when Daemon would be heir...hell, at that time the family was thriving. Plus, really it should have been Rhaenys line that inherited the throne. The family tree is really more of a shrub anyways, so its not like it would go to some distant relative. Remarrying and not doing more to establish Rhaenyra's claim was dumb. Hell, even dis inheritance after her marrying his brother would have been more of a precise choice.
Rhaenyra was the heir to The Iron Throne. This is irrefutable. However, I don't think she was fit to rule. She wanted to be the Queen' of the Sevin Kingdoms, but i dont think she thought past that. She was on Dragon Stone fucking Daemon for quite some time & only came back because the succession was being confested. Rhaenys told her about what happened at The Great Council of 101, she should have anticipated the pushback. She wasn't prepared; not even a little bit.
But you can see she DIDN'T want it, did she? She even considered ceding to Aegon before Luke was you know... murdered by a manchild with a nuke for a pony and thought chasing him around with the intent to maim and kill was fun. People like you love to point out, falsely, that she wanted the throne--whatever other mistakes she makes, and plenty of them, really: she DIDN'T WANT IT. Her father forced the issue to use her as a meatshield because he was afraid of his own little brother. What a cuck. Otto Hightower MADE him afraid of the most loyal man he had. Viserys never believed in her. She never believed in her--and otherwise, oh no, she fucked another man when she had an open marriage and her husband was fucking every squire that struck his fancy. Get over yourself. Her drunken rapist pos of a brother was ""not prepared even one bit" either. It should have been Daemon left as the heir, period. He was, idefc what you say, the most fit to rule. He made hard choices? Boo fucking hoo. The Westerosi were out to stamp out the Valyrian bloodline--and they did. :) Eventually. It'd have been a different story with Daemon at the helm.
This video is very true but I think one reason people go overboard defending rhanerya is because the audience mostly hate and have no respect for the sexist system of westeros so they see her breaking all the rules as good not realizing that she does alot of immoral and sometimes even downright evil things
I'm fed up with the term "revolutionary" being thrown around so much for things, characters or real world people who are an unrevolutionary as it comes. Case in point: Rhaenyra is the daughter of the king and his chosen heir. Even without that with her wealth, power and family connections she's heavily rooted in the establishment system. She is a product of it, and just being a woman is not revolutionary. There's a good reason why the historical conflict that inspired this show, or many other historical conflicts or leaders are never described as revolutionary: they wanted to maintain the system of power and just replace one bunch of elite with another and themselves at the top. P.S. As there is nobody truly revolutionary to root for in the show (i.e. from outside the established aristocracy with intentions to really change things, like overthrow feudalism), I am also Team Chaos. 👍
Yeah a revolution is generally a significant change or replacement to the system of government with another one by people outside of that ruling body. The same way a military overthrowing its country is usually a coup d'etat rather than a revolution, like the Greens taking control after Viserys dies is a palace coup. Rhaenyra being or becoming queen wouldn't be revolutionary, Andal inheritance doesn't forbid women from inheritance, boys just come before girls. Had the same issue with Fable 3 calling its plot a revolution when it's about replacing the current king with their younger brother/sister. The concept of a revolution is very popular in entertainment, but not really understood lol
Rhaenyra is aritocart true an true. Only wanted the attention of her father was younger. Later to petty to heal the bond within her family. Both sides have faults neither is totally right. Both have made mistakes and all boils into a pot of chaos.
This is an amazing channel, love your in deep dive videos on HOD characters. I’m personally Team Black, but you are absolutely right about Rhaenyra’s overall personality. Her disconnection with her subjects will lead to great problems in the future, where they will start to compare her to a certain very disliked King of the past.
She would put her people into power, execute Otto FOR SURE ( or Daemon would do it) and gain the legitimacy in the eyes of 7 kingdoms after the coronation. The greens did the right thing, just Aemond fucked it up
Back here after S2 aired! This video aged really well. The writers, not just the fans, are heavily biased toward Rhaenyra. They try to paint her as in the right in every situation, and even ramp up the negative traits of others to make her look good by comparison. This became even more obvious in s2. The story is a very shallow "girlboss feminism" that shows that while the writers/showrunners they want to have a feminist, progressive show they have very surface-level understandings of social justice. I have issues with the people who say you are sexist if you don't support her, or that she should be heir regardless of whether she's actually qualified for the job. Again, this plays into superficial "girlboss" feminism. I also take a similar issue with Rhaenys (Queen who never was) because she also shows a lack of leadership skill. One of the writers on the show (when asked about Rhaenys killing peasants with her dragon, many of whom were women) she said and I quote: "In GOT, civilians don't count". Shows their mindset, sadly. "Girlboss feminism" erases the nuances of class, wealth, and other factors from the equation. RHaenyra and Rhaenys did not have the privilege of gender, but they had every other privilege imaginable in contrast to the others in the Realm. It's okay to admit Rhaenyra isn't a revolutionary feminist, just a morally grey character or villain. I think people are blinded to this by how well Emma D'Arcy and Millie Alcock portrayed them. They were such good, likeable actresses that we think its her character we like, but its really just the actresses. And I feel like this push to stan RHaenyra no matter what is deeply undermining the show's quality. It was also wild how people gloss over the fact she slept with Daemon ON THE EVE OF HIS WIFE'S FUNERAL.
Suggesting Rhaenyra sleep with other Velaryons or random servants to ensure her children's race fits the male standards of Westeros completely removes the female autonomy that Rhaenyra's story conveys. I think you're the point of her story. GRRM has said he could write a novela about Rhaenyra and Harwin's romance.
Rhaen yra does not have female authority. She basks on her father (a male) words for her claim to the throne. she steals other women's inheritance, for her MALE sons.
So she is suposed to have the privileges of the systems she profits(she is an princess and wants to be queen) over but not the burdens(having to marry and have legitimate sons) ? how fair and great, truly an incredible take...
to be fair, her mother would have died anyway. the baby needs to come out, one way or the other. if it won't come out the normal way, c-section would have been the only choice. and considering medical practices weren't the best in medieval times, a c-section would have been a death sentence. but so would be having a dead baby rotting inside you. but i do get that from her perspective her father's order caused her mother's death
Aemma was never told, never asked about what was happening and if she consented to any of it. Her body was just... garbage, to those men. A possession. And you claim conservatives reopened the abortion debate, my god you're inhuman.
I think a key point of why she chose Harwin instead of someone else is because she loved him. Sure, she could have found someone else, but I'm not going to judge a woman for choosing to have sex with a man she loved instead of one that was expedient. She isn't wrong to carve out some happiness for herself. And reducing a ten-year relationship to, "well, she needed heirs and made a stupid choice in partners," isn't really fair. All that is to say nothing of trust. She might have found someone who looked like Laenor, but could she trust them? You say she has options, but not necessarily ones that she would trust with her life. As I said above, she loved Harwin; it makes sense she would trust him. But how could she know that the sperm donor she found wouldn't get caught bragging about sleeping with the princess? She may have gotten unlucky with their hair color (because there was every possibility the kids would look like her; she couldn't control genetics), but she picked someone who would never betray her. That kind of loyalty matters. Then there is her "running away," which I think clearly shows how completely you dismiss how bad King's Landing was for her during the timeskip. There is no way Alicent was willing and able to tear her newborn child from her arms as the first act of aggression. That sort of treatment seems to have been happening for years. So, if she needs to leave for her own sanity, she shouldn't be judged for it.
If she wanted happyness over government, then she should have abdicated the throne. It comes at a massive price, especially for the first female ruler. Her challenges would have always been enormous, yet she didn't even try to overcome them. People act as if she's entitled to have everything go her way.
I mostly agree but I think the fact that Rhaenyra made a genuine attempt to hold back from war should soften this judgement. At the very least she did stop to ask "is this best for the Realm?" Considering how high the stakes were for her family that's not nothing. (As for how this changes after her son's death... I'd rather wait for Season 2. A lot will depend on who ordered what etc.)
Your argument isn't really valud bcz even here she's being a hypocrite. She said she won't start a war yet at the same time she agreed with corlys and sent rhaenys to protect the blockage they put over the narrow sea. The blockage in question would've deprived kingslanding and nearing areas of FOOD, TRADE etc. That's not very “is it best for the realm” of her now is it? Lol In addition to this, the aforementioned actions would also make her an unfavourable person in the eyes of the people she wants to rule, they would have no one else to blame but the dragon queen who is starving them of food and taking away chances of trade; dooming their businesses.
@@hightower19 I get were you're coming from but blockades take effect gradually. She at least leaves things open to de-escalate before things get too bad (unlike Otto and Daemon's plans). She reminds me of Alicent who's simultaneously trying to strengthen the Green's regime while also trying to avoid killing Rhaenyra and her family. Real life peace negotiations tend to involve lots of contradictory actions because nobody knows if they'll work or not. Total war and unconditional surrender are the only ways of avoiding these sorts of contradictions.
She's terrible at the game. If she wasnt Targaryen she wouldnt make it as far as she does. But thats what makes her so intriguing to me. She manages to get by regardless.
Thank you for this analysis when I first watched house of the Dragon I was completely team Ryanair but after I knew about fire and blood I completely switched to team Aegon 3 and jaehaera 1st
I don't think current rhaenyra wants a revolution, clearly she just wants to sit the iron throne and set up her boys as heir. Though if she sat the iron throne it would actually set a precedent which would inadvertently help future female claimants. Also i mostly agree expect for the choosing part, people don't choose who they're in love with. Having bastards is an issue but expecting her to be some of genius genetic engineer who finds the someone with her exact needed genealogy and bang them is silly
IMO 'Revolutionary' in this video doesn't refer to like a radical regime change like the kind Dany wanted. I think the author of this video meant it in like a cultural revolutionary sense where women hold more power and can hold lands. And whether Rhaenyra wants that or not, her sitting on the Iron Throne would probably have that effect to some extent but that does not make her some paragon of virtue.
Good argument and video, I just have to mention something: Viserys chose Rhaenyra as his heir, her sons claims come directly from her, not from being more or less inbred targaryens. Traditionally, Targs chose their successors, her claim and her sons is inquestionable since it was approved and decreed by Viserys himself. It wouldn't ever matter who's their father for the succession to the Iron Throne, only for the succession of Driftmark, in my opinion.
Yes, their claims do come from Rhaenyra but if the knowledge came out that they were not Laenor’s sons that claim would not matter. Any child born outside of marriage by man or woman would still be a bastard. As such it doesn’t matter that Viserys named her heir, Aegon, Aemond, Daeron and even Helaena would come before them in terms of succession. Yes, Viserys has claimed them but that was always under the context of them being Velaryons ACCUSED of bastardy. Not a bastard being legitimatized. So really he’s not even claiming them, just defending them against rumors and making them seem like lies and slander. To truly, legally, and officially claim them he’d have to out them as bastards then legitimatize them as Strongs as the children of Harwin. At this point, them being bastards is just speculation as no one will admit to it and no one has true evidence to prove it as their obvious looks can be denied. If Rhaenyra was the only one that mattered then the whole issue of bastardy would never be a problem. It doesn’t matter if their pure inbred Targaryens what matters is if their conception was’s within the legal bonds of marriage( because of how negatively Westeros views children who aren’t) and that’s what makes them truly valid not just Rhaenyra being their mom.
@@TheEmpyreanSpeaks I get your point, I truly do, but I feel like you're viewing the situation from a westerosi succession point of view, while Targaryens are portrayed as valyrians who are above tradition. Only after Jahaerys does that change, so Rhaenyra, in a sense, doesnt have westerosi legitimacy mas does have all the valyrian legitimacy, if that makes sense. Of course all the Dance happens in Westeros so for all intents and purposes both Viserys and Rhaenyra have royally fucked up (pun intended)
@@TheEmpyreanSpeaksexcept they wouldn't discredit a man's children's legitimacy so fast as they did with Rhaenyra for being a woman. If Rhaenyra were a dude, no one would ever question this shit.
Wtf are you talking about , Jon Snow was thought to be a man's bastard, it's not like they treated him as a Stark or member of the family ! @@happilyevernever4289
What I love about this show is that every last character is deeply flawed and complex. I root for Damon, but in truth he's a complete asshole. I'm not sure if it's Matt Smith's performance or just because he's a bad boy. I'm obsessed with this show and can't wait for Season 2.
These videos are so awesome. I have disagreements will some parts of all the videos. (Except aegon, I agree with your pov.) I’m subscribed and like every video. Can’t wait for Daemon and also hoping you do the same time on the smaller characters. Once you are done with the main cast. Awesome! Absolutely awesome!
The show is different than the books and show Rhaenyra isn’t as bad, book rhaenyra was slandered but even if half of what they say is true she was cruel. I think rhaenyra in the show would’ve been a level headed ruler if she inherited the kingdom and didn’t lose all her children.
Considering The Targaryens have married Valaryons in the past, and the current Targaryens are related to House Valaryon it would've made more sense to make both House Targaryen and Valaryon Black. It would've kept some of the mystery from the book. Viserys and Daemon's father was half Valaryon. Because Jahaerys' mother was Alyssa Valaryon, and Jahaery's married his sister. So House Targaryen and Valaryon should be the same race.
Or... both white, and have House Celtigar be black, which would have been awesome, too. They'd actually have had some screentime. We have never seen them in nine seasons' worth of ASOIAF.
@@blissinchains It wouldn't have worked with modern hollywood restrictions. You need at minimum 3-4 main characters of afro descent. The Celtigars are not main characters. The show runners would lose funding.
Let's be honest the only reason Houses support her is because of Daemon, they all know he is the real king and will be after they win the war, and the fans support her because of Daemon. Am i the only one who finds her similar to Malfoy from Harry Potter he used to always go ''My Father, my father' whenever someone challenged him, privileged and spoiled character.
When did he ever make a move on her then? I didn't see it. Also, Rhaenyra being the sole reason why Cole got his white cloak is the root of the problem and the power imbalance. As this guy says himself. When you hire somebody, you don't try sleeping with them afterwards. Definetly when it's punishable by death for them to say either 'yes' or 'no'.
A few things…Laenor and Rhaenyra did try to conceive, like multiple times. He just couldn’t get her pregnant. Also Lucerys has actually a good amount of velayron blood in him from his Targaryen heritage. He is also betrothed to Baela Targaryen who is half Velaryon. So their children would have the Velaryon name and a good amount of Velaryon blood as well. Vaemond was just pissed that he wasn’t going to rule Driftmark.
First:I know they did, I literally made the point that since Laenor wasn’t getting her pregnant it would’ve been a smarter choice for her to bed a Velaryon or at least someone who resembled them. Second: That good amount comes from his great great great mother, and before that his great great great great grandmother. At this point that blood is diluted, even if it wasn’t, the Velaryons have more attributes in the show canon and Lucerys has none of them. He’s white as cream in comparison to them. But even if that blood was considered, it comes from women who were just married off. Their claims would mean nothing to Driftmark. Luke at best is a really distant cousin in comparison to Vaemond who’s related to the families main line. This is like arguing that it’s ok for the Velaryons to sit throne because they all technically have Targaryen blood without the inclusion of Rhaenys because the two families intermarried all the time in past before Aegon forged the throne. Once again, that blood mainly comes from women who were married off and the great council of 101 showed how they view men’s claims in comparison to that of a woman. Then there’s Targaryen incest as well. With all that inbreeding the Targaryens would once again be seen as “pure” and mainly identify with their Targaryen blood over the velaryon. Third:I won’t deny Vaemond has ambitions but, Luke is a bastard. Bastards are viewed as impure incarnations of evil and lust. So for these people to lie and say he’s the heir to house Velaryon in comparison to Vaemond who is true born, has all the Velaryon/Valyrian traits, and is the closest in relation to Corlys is an insult. Even with Rhaena, she’ll always be considered Targaryen before Velaryon. And even with her blood from Laena taken into account it’s still like their family titles are being passed to people who don’t deserve them because people will always look to the father before the mother. This is even true for Rhaenyra. Even with her kids claims to the throne coming from her it still matters that Laenor is their father, if it’s revealed he’s not they have no claim to driftmark and the knowledge of bastardy would severely reduce their claim to throne, especially in the face of Viserys’s other four children. If Luke had taken driftmark and his bastardy was revealed, then his kids would be arguably illegitimate as heirs as well because this isn’t a matrilineal marriage. It doesn’t matter what blood received from way back when or through marriage he had no right to driftmark.
@@TheEmpyreanSpeaks I appreciate the reply. My bad if I missed that you said they tried to conceive. In the video you made it sound like that laenor didn’t want to have sex with her at all so that’s why she should choose another man with velaryon traits. Also still on the fence about the Vaemond thing, I know what you’re getting at with Luc, but I still think him being heir was really only an issue for Vaemond and the Greens. Corlys was fine with it “History remember names not blood”. Also Rhaena is Corlys grandchild which makes her a direct descendant of the first born son in house Velaryon. Also you act like it’s official that luc is a bastard, he is technically one yes, but leanor has claimed him as his true born son and no one could officially call him a bastard without being killed if his mother or brother was on the iron throne. There was heavy speculation that Aenys was a bastard and not the son of Aegon, but people didn’t care because Aegon still claimed him as his son despite the rumors.
@@TheEmpyreanSpeaks I feel like the only way you can be officially labeled as a bastard in Westeros, is if the father officially denounces the child as their own. Most bastards are a combination of high born men and peasant women so it’s obvious when they are bastards. But if the mother is highborn, then the only real way to officially label that child a bastard is if the father claims that it is not his. Laenor will always say Lucerys is his true born son, so no one can really say he is a bastard without severe consequences. Especially if his mother or brother were on the iron throne while he ruled Driftmark.
Laenor is infertile. So what else was she supposed to do? She fell in love with the captain of the city watch and they had an affair. Laenor was having affairs since before their marriage and never stopped, with his squires. But one is okay and the other is not?
To the narrator nobody ever said Rainiera was perfect ! As a matter of fact she was far from perfect. Her brother took what was rightfully hers, among other things.
If we’re saying Rhaenyra’s throne is rightfully hers because it was Viserys’ wish, then by that logic, the Iron Throne truly belongs to Joffrey because that was Robert’s dying wish as well. We know the latter is a bastard, and the former has true born brothers and intends to put her bastard son Jace on the throne after her by hook, or by crook - very Cersei-like, this Rhaenyra.
Where are team black fans saying she’s perfect? I keep hearing people say this but as a member of team black I’ve never actually seen it. People assume because you’re team black you think Rhaenyra is perfect & that’s simply not true being a fan of someone doesn’t mean you think they perfect y’all gotta stop with the lies. I’m team black because she was named the heir & the lords of the realm swore fealty to her. & the only reason people don’t want her as ruler is because she’s a woman. Also I think her & Jace would’ve been better rulers than Aegon the drunken sex offender. She grew from a selfish girl to a woman capable to ruling & ruling well as we saw at the council after she had Joffrey. & not wanting to immediately go to war & considering bending the knee to save the realm she actually cares about the realm. I also like that she is a better mother than abusive self righteous Alicent but I do sympathize with team green for Heleana & the kids. Rhaenyra is nothing like Cersei cause she is the heir! She’s the royal blood Cersei never was & enjoyed torturing people & murdering them. Also bastards by men have been legitimized & they have dragon’s blood & are dragon riders. She didn’t care about the common people not thinking she should be heir cause she was young & they are sexist 🤦🏾♀️🤣 but as an adult she cared about the people & not going to war & made good suggestions at the council. I do agree she should’ve slept with someone with Laenor’s features. But she needed heirs & Laenor couldn’t perform & he claimed & loved those boys as did his father the seasnake. Vaemond was stupid because they were engaged to his nieces who do have Velaryon blood & thus keeping Driftmark in the family. Assuming Rhaenyra hates Aegon is that an assumption she never says it or acts like it as an adult. Why would she care about Aemond’s eye when he called her kids bastards & attacked them. Her kid’s lives are in danger if people know the truth & she knows they constantly taunt them. It’s been a Targaryen tradition that the heir waits at Dragonstone until it’s time to be crowned. She was an exception cause Viserys let her sit on the council. So they didn’t just leave the greens in charge. I don’t see people seeing her as a symbol or a hero or saying that.
Look at every reaction n on social media then u will see how they view this idolize her. Where is the creator of this video spreading lies? When u get a ruler like her who constantly breaks the rules don’t expect for people to follow her. N that’s a laugh that they only don’t want her because she is a women lol Cersei n Rt r so similar. 1. both have 3 bastard kids 2. both named Joffrey 3. both sleep with Kingsguards 4. sleep with family members 5. both had people killed who spoke about their children being bastards, 6.both wanted to put bastards on the iron throne 7. started a civil war.
@@jjosifovic I watch them & no one idolizes her or says she’s perfect just because they are on her side. That’s a serious stretch of the imagination 1. Cersei isn’t of royal blood & the Targs have legal right to incest by the high septon & the faith. Robert was unaware of his kids true parentage & was tricked & betrayed whereas Laenor knew he couldn’t perform & legally accepts those boys & loves them & they have his last name so no it’s different. Rhaenyra’s son had the name 1st & it was Laenor who named him. As long as they have dragons blood that’s all that matters & like Viserys said they are his trueborn grandsons & Cersei’s children had no royal blood.
@@tytybaby06 what the kings says is not law, every single king has to follow the rules and traditions of westeros, that why they have a master of laws. Obviously having dragon blood matters but they are bastards and they wouldn't inherit over aegon and aemond. Laenor gave the kids his last name but they have no right to the driftmart throne same as cersei kids have no right to the iron throne. It doesnt matter what the intention or nature of relationship between the woman's husbands.were, the end result is still the same. They both try to pass their children as legitimate and they are not, rt are more legtimate than cersei, but they are still bastards. U are giving me technicalities with the whole legal incest vs illegal incest. incest is incest, bastards are bastards. AGAIN When u get a ruler l who constantly breaks the rules don’t expect for people to follow that ruler.
She is the ruler however she isn't much better than the high towers. She just so happens to be the person Viserys said should be the next ruler. The show tried to the blacks as the good guys somewhat even though they have multiple questionable scenarios. Like when Laenor faked his death at the expense of someone else. The only person person I'd say is an actual issue on team green is Aegon due to him watching children fight to the death as a form of entertainment (don't even get me started on the servant girl). I'd speak on what Aemond also does but if you didn't read the books it would be spoilery material.
Oh you expect rhynara to abide by westerosi rules but when it comes to oaths there too old? I’m sorry but there are no time limits when it comes to sworn oaths !!
@@diogenes7663hasn’t it only been like 20 years tho, not a hundred. It’s not like these peoples great great grandpas swore the oath. It was their dads, mothers, brothers. You’d think they’d be more keen on wanting to follow the house oath of a very recent family member. Also let’s not forget Otto jailing and killing people for not swearing to Aegon. How is an oath while under duress any better? Man I love this GoT world. Sht is just nuts there.
@@HeatherHoltyeah not much time had passed but the way I consider it is if your dad swore to do something or uphold something you personally don’t agree with you are under no obligation to uphold that oath. But yeah Westeros is fucked and I’m not advocating for oath breaking but I mean oaths in a feudal society are usually under duress like could realistically anyone say no to swearing an oath to the king Westeros is really messed up by our modern interpretation and I think we as fans discount that a lot cause it’s fantasy
Rhaenyra needs to abide by the rules of the country she wishes to rule. Simple as that. She didn’t while being assumptive about their support like they’re all gonna look the other way like her father, and it lost her many allies
While I will admit Rhaenyra’s not perfect and neither is her family, she should have been Queen regnant after her father but due to the poison that was ineffectively gotten rid of(Otto Hightower) everything went completely wrong and I have issues with everyone on the greens except helaena because of the poison that infected the Targaryen family
I think you're overcorrecting. Hard. (The anger in your voice!) I agree that everyone is fucked up and at fault, and no one is concerned about the well-being of the regular people. And a lot of the audience is too invested in their teams. But this is a story about women trying to seize power within a heavily patriarchical society, and for that reason both Rhaenyra and Alicent function as revolutionaries to a degree. And as it's a feudaluatic society, neither giving much concern to lower born people, they are as careless and self-interested as classic rulers. They're meant to be complex and contradictory. It's kind of flippant to say that Rhaenyra could have better navigated the patriarchy. She was to be the first woman to inherit the throne. There were no real guides or role models. It was difficult for Alicent to do too, and she more closely followed tradition. The whole point is that navigating the patriarchy was (is) dangerous. I think all female ASOIAF characters function in this way. People see Rhaenyra as heroic because she's going against the grain without murdering everyone in sight To me Rhaenyra is the "greyest" character so far. I commented on another of your videos that she didn't have complete disregard for Criston but was selfish and naive in understanding his position. She chose him as her protector and held him in as high regard as she could. She respected her own pleasure and didn't consider the person she shared it with as nothing. Unfortunately, she had Daemon and Viserys as her teachers about sex and responsibility, and neither of them were able to show her how to balance them. Her agreements with Leanor and Harwin were a disaster, but they were honest with each other. I believe she thought the arrangement she wanted with Criston was based on the same kind of honest dishonesty, but it wasn't something he could afford. She made a lot of assumptions about what people should allow her to do. I want to give her a pass for showing genuine love for her children, but bringing them into the world for her own ambitions was a horrible decision. She could have moon tea-ed them away and made Aegon her heir, strengthening the entire family.
Ooh my god the number of excuses u have made so far for her is the reason why that society is better off with in men's hand they are not here trying to make their bastards heirs when they do wrong things they accept the consequences....but with her you blaming everyone but her for her own actions 'oh she didn't know any better, she didn't have anyone to teach her , she didn't mean it that way" she is a princess to be queen her more than anyone has all the information and help she can get in her hands but she chooses not to listen to anyone! I mean the woman literally said she wants a world with no consequences how is that going to work out? It is just weird for me that she gets away with a lot of something's that even a male heir would have a hard time doing yet here we are treating her like a 7 year old child she doesn't give a sh*t about anyone but her and her kids just like cerssy That's why in the books when she is queen the kingdom falls people kill some of the dragons she is not fit to be a queen patriarch or not what kind of a ruler thinks the world should have no consequences? Which is something we seeing in this world where in the name of destroying the "patriarch" you just think by putting a woman in power things will magically be rainbows and sunshine and get the shock that not only are these women doing the same thing as the men but some of them are worse ! It's not the private parts that makes you a good person but it's ur character and morals which ur queen doesn't have
@@just_by_luck I think Team Green people are so emotional in their support because Alicent is such a retrograde character, and there's not much that she does that's defensible. Most of them are so gung ho that they can't even decipher a balanced criticism of Rhaenyra even when it explicitly calls her selfish and unconcerned with common people. And that she waa irresponsible and should have terminated her pregnancies if she couldn't produce legitimate heirs rather than endangering everyone by trying to secure her claim with children. Apparently "they're all fucked up and at fault" is what making excuses for someone looks like through green tinted lenses.
@@just_by_luck I think, looking at men's comments in here, that the world could do with fewer of them, and more women in power. :') Men are way too emotional and explode in aggression so easily. You don't own my body, or another woman's, and fuck off with those kinds of assumptions.
I agree with the things you say ven though I'm team black, rhaenyra is a very poor decision maker, she is entitled, and gets no consequences but the reason she gets no consequences is because of her father viserys. As a team black person I also know that even if rhaenyra had no bastards the greens were going to put aegon on the throne, Otto was against rhaenyra once his grandson had his 2nd name day, and aliment turned om her because she didn't tell aliment she lost her virginity but maybe part of the reason rhaenyra lied to her was because she felt like aliment would tell it and then criston Cole would be dead. I get why vaemond was mad too but he could've at least not tried to step over his nieces as possible heirs to driftmark and he needed to get angry at coryls because he's the one who was okay with him being heir even though that's dangerous to want that because the other velaryons know he isn't laenors child. Both Coryls and rhaenyra were dumb ah for thinking lucerys should be heir, if rhaenyra wanted lucerys as heir she could've done like you said and had her bastards by laenors cousins because at least lucerys would have velaryon blood
I think it should be noted that Rhaneyra never actually had a chance to make any changes in Kingdom, even if she wanted - during Dance Rhaneyra supported male primogeniture, but she was in desperate need of allies and such radical changes like new succesision laws ought to be make carefully. Myabe if her reign was peacfull she would actually have an opportunity to "create a new order".
@@Simon-A.-Tan I have no idea what are you talking about. Rhaenyra took all challenges seriously. Maybe it is you who can't take seriously fact she was human, not almighty seer, so she couldn't know exact iutcome of her actions.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Ok, this must be the most insane comment on the internet. Just a couple examples of how she DIDN'T take things seriously: 1. She needed to win the acceptance of all the Lords in Westeros, but proceeded by insulting and demeaning those same Lords during her tour in search for a husband. Worst of all there is how she humiliated the host, Bormund Baratheon, which came to bite her in the ass at the end of the season, when she had to ask the latter's son for help. Be sure he remembered that.... Also, the Baratheons were slighted just as much as the Velaryons after the dismissal of princess Rhaenys by the Great Council in 101ac, yet Viserys never bothered putting any effort into reconciling with them. Otto definetly added to this situation, as we could see during the tournament in episode 1, when he tried to further instigate the king against a Baratheon rider who called his cousin Rhaenys "the queen who never was". You can bet that Otto was playing "divide and conquer" right there. And no matter how much you hate it, it makes him infinetly more competent in the Game then Rhaenyra.... So during her tour she had a golden opportunity to gain Bormund's loyalty and affections, yet instead she disgraced him further by running off unexpectedly, this after insulting half of his guests. And yes, she would have realized this if she had paid any attention to court politics, but apparently all of that didn't matter enough to her in order to make sacrifices and put in work and effort. 2. She had obvious illegitimate children. Almost every Lord in Westeros has bastard relatives. The idea of such visible bastards as the Strong boys one day inheriting the Iron Throne absolutely made some of them already nervous.... and it would have made even more of them come to shudder had Jace become the official heir once Viserys had passed.... because then he would have ended up more visible to the eye of his vassals and subjects in general, instead of being hidden on Dragonstone or at the Red Keep. Why were those Lords were getting nervous? Well, because Jace's ascension could inspire those bastard relatives into rebellion. It would legitimize their claims as well as his.... Even if it wouldn't automatically end up like that in most cases, then still there would definetly be some mysterious "disappearences" of bastard cousins etc. at some places in the realm, just "to be sure".... which would give a lot of bastard sons (and daughters now too?) an incentive to rise up, if just out of (preventive) self defense. To put it shortly: Jace and his brothers would unwillingly, but inevitably, launch several hundreds of small scaled civil wars, with a bit of a genocidal component to them, just by their mere existence. In order to avoid that outcome, most Lords would try to either kill the boys asap or prevent their mother from seizing the Throne. They can keep saying that the boys aren't bastards, but.... PEOPLE HAVE EYES. If Rhaenyra and Laenor couldn't conceive, then she should have fucked another Velaryon in order to create a physical resemblance for her children, so she could at least mask their identity. Or she shouldn't have had any children at all. She wouldn't have an heir, but that wouldn't have weakened her claim as much as the presence of Jace, Luke and Joffrey did. 3. She failed at making alliances. When things got to hard at the Red Keep, Rhaenyra fled to Dragonstone and isolated herself for years. Not only did she completely abandon King's Landing in favor of the Greens, she also never seemed to have bothered mending her (broken) connections with important houses like the Lannisters, the Tyrells, the Baratheons, the Tullies etc. While she was sitting on her ass on Dragonstone, Otto was forging those alliances. This doesn't require brilliance, just a basic understanding of the fact that if you are going to rule people, you have to start getting to know them at some point.... becoming visible to them.... Even the weak king Aenys understood this. The only thing she has left, is the vows of a generation of Lords who have, for the most part, already passed away. Also, words are wind.... 4. She fake-killed Laenor. This should have meant the end to her relationship with the Velaryons, but Viserys' last minute rescue in episode 8 made Rhaenys switch sides on the final moment as well. However, the Velaryons are a large family.... and you could already bet from early on that Vaemond wasn't gonna be the last one who wouldn't really take a liking to Corlys' apparent forgiveness.... let alone to his choice of heir.... 5. She married Daemon. The Vale should have been on lock for Rhaenyra, given the fact that it is currently ruled by a woman: lady Jeyne Arryn.... a bloodrelative of hers even.... However, Daemon is rightfully despised in the Vale after the murder of his wife Rhea Royce. Lady Jeyne basically told him to fuck off when he put forward a claim for Runestone afterwards, although the show didn't show that. If Rhaenyra receives less then unconditional support from the Vale, then she has her choice of husband to thank for that. Also, Daemon is a controversial figure whose presence alone would make the more cautious nobles in the realm question their allegiance to Rhaenyra. Overall, Rhaenyra is a spoiled little princess.... a daddy's girl who never put in any effort to do anything, but expected everything to work out for her nonetheless. She wanted to have her cake and eat it too. She wanted a careless life, but also wanted to get to be Westeros' undisputed dictator when she grew up. You can't have a careless and fun little life if those are your ambitions....
@@Simon-A.-Tan 1. She was girl. None has to be perfect whole time. 2. Her claim isn't at all weakened. None cares about paternity of her children and in books most kingdoms supported Rhaenyra, when Jace and Joff were heirs apparents. The only ones who care is Alicent and Vaemond. Do you seriously think that if Rhaneyra had only legitimate children, that would change anything??? O sweet summer child - Alicent and Otto would be still plotting against her. Plotting against Rhaneyra strate dlonge before she had any child. No, she couldn't have "no children" - if she wanted to ascend, she had to have a child to strenght her postition. And she couldn't simply go to other Velaryon - it had to be someone she can TRUST. 3. She couldn't predict people will betray their oath. And she didn't "isolated herself". That is nonsense and blatant lie - she went to Dragonstone which WAS a seat of heir to the throne. She wasn't first nor last heir who resided on Draginstone. 4. Again - blatant nonsens. Rheenys might speculate about who was responsible about Laenor's end, but ultimately Rhaneyra had her granddaughetrs in her care. Baela and Rhaena fully supported their step-mother. And Rhaneys had to support her daughter-in-law, if she wanted mainntain bond with her granddaughters. 5. I don't like Daemon and I don't know what she sees in him as a woman. But he is great warrior and she knows she needed someone lie that on her side. Politically marriage is excellent choice. You completely misunerstood the character and only thing you can do is being misogynist about it. Rhaneyra wasn't spoiled at all. Criston propsed they run off, but she rejected this, because she tretaed her position seriously - she wanted to stay and take care of her kingdom. she also knew she has to produce heirs andshe do what she had to. If she cared only about pleasure she would flew away as soon as Aegon was born and never came back.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 1. She does. She has the obligation. It's not even about being 'perfect', but about not being the worst. If she wants to act like a teenage girl, then abdicate the Throne. Done. You can't have your cake and eat it too. 2. Off course Otto would still have tried to get his grandson on the Throne. Plotting and scheming are politics. If you don't want to play that game, then abdicate. Same for nitwit Viserys who caused this mess in the first place. You have to make the right moves. She never paid any attention to this however. Yes, it would have made quite the difference. The bastards were always going to be the breaking point. If you want to refer the "history" of the book, then remember what ser Criston Cole said when he crowned Aegon.... what his main argument was to convince him and incite others.... Do you think that he just said that for himself and Aegon? Or that he was putting a more generally existing sense of anxiety into words? Also, she didn't have "most kingdoms". She had the North due to the loyalty of the Starks, struggled with the Vale more then she normally should have given her personal family bond with them, as wel as some houses in the Riverlands and the Reach, who came in the fold largely due to their tendency to rival their neighbours (Brackens vs Blackwoods par example) and/or the Hightowers in the Reach. That's hardly an impressive alliance for somebody who had had decades to prepare for her takeover and had enjoyed all the cooperation of the king up until then. 3. "She couldn't predict people breaking their oath...." - Yeah, she was just as smart as good ole Ned Stark there. Also, a lot of them didn't break their oaths: they never even spoke them themselves. And she DID isolate herself. Both book and show clearly imply this. Why do you think that she couldn't predict Lord Borros' attitude towards Luke? Because she hadn't seen him in forever.... Same with her confidence in the unconditional support of Lady Jeyne. She also seems to never have tried mending the broken bonds with House Lannister, the richest in the realm, even though Tylland was literally living in the Red Keep. That or she was never succesfull at it.... which shouldn't be surprising given her lack of diplomacy. Having your seat on Dragonstone doesn't mean that you should stay there all the time. DEFINETLY NOT when you know that your claim is always going to be disputed due to your gender. You have to make even MORE moves then. 4. "And Rhaneys had to support her daughter-in-law, if she wanted mainntain bond with her granddaughters." Even if so, then do you seriously think that Rhaenys has the final say in the business of House Velaryon? She isn't even a Velaryon!!!! Seriously, the Laenor-killing was the dumbest and most self-centered shit ever pulled off. Also, Rhaenys made it pretty clear in the show that she was going to go along with the Hightowers and that Rhaenyra's offer was a pretty desperate one in her opinion. Had Viserys not shown up during that session, then Rhaenys would most probably have ended up with the Greens. And Corlys would likely have been glad to follow her to that side, given his misgivings about Rhaenyra, as revealed in the show. He wouldn't have even needed to disinherit "Laenor's children" if Rhaenyra would have been kept away from the Throne. There would not have been an immediate reason for that.... In the contrary, her removal from the line of succession would have made Jace, Luke and Joff less controversial outside of the Velaryon family itself. 5. Why would she need a warrior by her side? Seriously.... For a partner, she would have been better off with somebody who has more then two braincells, rather then a hyperimpulsive failson who only knows "Smash" as a response to anything. Warriors are needed on the battlefield. Not as some sort of advisor.... Also, I've already explained why it wasn't a good political match. You claim that it was, but offer no arguments. "You're a MISOGYNIST !!!!" Aaaaaaaaaaah.... the forever response from hysterical Rhaenyra-stans.... It shows why you're being so delusional about her character: you take her for some sort of "feminist ally" of yours, even though she's only focused on her own claims and those of her children. Baela also had a claim to Driftmark, but Rhaenyra sided with Luke, who had zero Velaryon blood.... So don't act is if she's some "feminist warrior" and stop projecting your contemporary politics onto a medieval society with different norms and structures. People who can't function within those norms and structures are simply lost causes who will never wield the influence necessary to obtain and maintain power. She isn't spoiled? You're quite literally one of the 0.01% of people who seem to think that. As I've already mentioned: she NEVER puts in the effort. The only concession she ever makes is agreeing to produce children. And even that one she fucks up royally with the Strong boys because she wants to do it with somebody who doesn't look at all like her husband or her.... That she refuses to concede her position as heir???? THAT makes her NOT spoiled???? I know that you folks like to stretch your reasoning, but.... that's a whole different level.... She even literally says at the end "I thought I wanted it...." She thought she WANTED it. It wasn't some sort of selfless idealism that made her give up on her privileges.... In fact, that was my point: she NEVER gives up on those. She wants to have her cake and eat it too.... non-stop.... You are clearly the one who doesn't understand her character.... because you keep viewing her through the lens that most modern day children's films about fictional medieval times put on their viewers: sassy girlboss good protagonist, old-fashioned people bad.... This is not such a children's film however. It's supposed to be a GRRM-story. Although I do get the impression that there's a lot of whitewashing in order to appease the lowest common denominator: people like you....
Lol damn you hatin. I don’t think George ever writes characters who do “no wrong.” That’s boring. She has her issues but Alicent has as many if not more issues, seeing as how she turns into her dad who forced her into a horrible situation and then told her to be happy about it. She did the same with her son. Rhynera also does her best to not go straight into war and bloodshed which is impressive in a world where dragons mean power. I like her character, I like her conniving ability while also having empathy and understanding how things work once she’s an adult. Alicent making her bring the baby right after birth was so messed up. And it seems she only had kids with Strong, she wasn’t sleeping with everyone as far as we know, she was in a marriage with a gay guy and she did try to have kids w him so are we supposed to say she can’t have any romance with anyone ever just bc she was made to marry a man she didn’t love? Idk man… I think Rhynera has much more reasoning to go dark side than Alicent but they’re both tragic characters. Which makes them so interesting!! Also Rhynera is a much better and loving mom than Alicent, plus Rhynera can’t ever admit her kids are bastards, what would be the fallout. Scary stuff for their lives, their future. Also corlys’s brother died bc of his own actions, not Rhynera. Corlys wanted jayce to have the land, his brother didn’t get to decide and he was trying to scheme so it’s not her fault imo. And when does she ever mention she hates Aegon. You’re just assuming.
I think you are being ignorant here, just as the creator said Firstly her father chose her to rule after him which no man ever did in asoiaf and f&b to their daughters. Instead of setting an example towards herself and people around her she misused her power for wrong choices especially she is a woman so her actions are more judged than a man's. Rhaenyra may never wanted a war doesn't mean she won't face it even if greens doesn't crown themselves. As the creator said having the dragon and being a royal doesn't mean you have people's respect they can put you down or even kill you if they can like rhaegar, aerys, maegor etc. If rhaenyra had any empathy alicent and her half siblings would have followed her(in show). But no, she is just like her father being ignorant. As for alicent you are lying about making rhaenyra bring her baby with her. Go rewatch the scene alicent only asked joffrey being showed up to her not rhaenyra. Rhaenyra could have choose anyone looking like her or laenor to have babies with which again says that you haven't watched the video. Rhaenyra being at dark side is much based on her poor choices than alicent does . But ofcourse the society is misogynistic, which is why cersei says "in game of thrones you win or you die".
Rhaenyra did the same thing to her son lol. Lucerys expressed multiple times that he did not want to be heir to Driftmark and Rhaenyra “it’s your duty” him all the way to his and Vaemond’s grave. You say Rhaenyra could not admit her sons were bastards, but Viserys would not have allowed his favorite child and her children to be executed or heavily punished regardless. Her bastards were going to cause a war once they assumed their inheritance anyway because their parentage is an open secret. And comparing Rhaenyra to Alicent to make one seem “less bad” is a fool’s errand: most of it will be subjective, and they both did things that they should be stripped of their titles for
1. Both Rhaenyra and Alicent hesitate at the end. So it's kinda telling that you acknowledge this for one and not for the other. 2. Rhaenyra also tells her sons to ignore and suppress their traumas about their bastardry, causing them to not process those and lash out irrationally at several occasions when it's brought up. Kinda funny how you ignore that one too. 3. When is she ever conniving in a smart way? When is she ever empathetic? When does she figure things out? She's fumbling from episode 1 until 10.... 4. "Alicent making her bring the baby right after birth was so messed up." Actually, if the father ordered this, it wouldn't be uncommon. She never ordered Rhaenyra to come along. It was all about inspecting the baby's appearance. This is a paranoia clearly induced by Rhaenyra repeatedly having illegitimate children and everybody else seemingly ignoring it. After a decade, you might hit a breaking point.... 5. That she was faithfull to Harwin doesn't matter. By having his children, she birthed kids who would always be sentenced to death by rebellion. The Westerosi Lords would never allow an obvious bastard to inherit, if only already for preventing their own bastard relatives from feeling empowered. A person "who has figured out how things work" knows this. 6. She doesn't have to admit they are bastards. Everybody sees it. By not acknowledging it she also denies them the opportunity to be officially legitimized. But hey, she "knows how things work".... 7. "Corlys wanted Jayce to have the land...." First of all, no: it was Luke. Second of all: what Corlys wanted, does not matter. The Velaryons are a large family and most of them would and will never fully accept Luke or Joffrey. Vaemond had made all the right moves until Viserys unexpectedly showed up. After that, he was denied, and Daemon and Rhaenyra would have killed him off anyway. So he went downs screaming his cause out loud to several witnesses. Witnesses who will no doubt talk to other Velaryons. It was actually a pretty big Boss Move by him. 8. Everybody hates Aegon. Even Alicent doesn't seem to love her son, so it's a reasonable assumption. Certainly with Rhaenyra literally calling for Aemond to be tortured. Her calling baby Aegon "Alicent Hightower's son" and ignoring him in every single scene afterwards, is as much of an indicator as the show's pacing allows.
Rhaenrya admitted herself that she is not perfect in the final episode of season 1 when Lucerys told her that he wasn't perfect and she replied "Nor am I." She made many mistake chief amongst them was having children with someone who looks nothing like her first husband.
I messed something up when I uploaded my Viserys video. When I uploaded it I added it to the playlist then removed it immediately after so I could fix it. That’s why the playlist says a video is hidden.
I just made a video of Rt like 1 hour ago lol n another fair and open minded viewpoint as to who Rt is. I’m more team green than black mostly because I find the fan base of team black more or less emotional n illogical n r way to blinded by the faults of Rt n DT.
Dude you gotta chill, they released one season that put Rhaenrya in a VERY good light. Just chill tf out with the hostility, most people probably haven’t read the book buddy
I would rather have a caring and kind bastard for a future ruler(Jace, Luke, Joffrey) than a rapist (Aegon) 🤷♀️ despite her flaws Rhaenyra raised her sons better than Alicent. It’s a miracle Helaena turned out as sweet as she is
Doesn't matter. You are not representative of the realm. If you want to govern, they are whom you need to appease, not some tv viewer. Also, how would you characterize Daemon then if you dislike Aegon so much?
@@joao.fenix1473 I never said Aegon is not “legitimate” I said Jace would be a better ruler and I said legitimate in quotes because Rhaenyra was the one named heir not Aegon II
See cristin was the adult in the situation. He should have not slept with her, she was a child and could not give consent to sex, and she was under the influence. The adult should have said “rhaenyra I vowed to protect you, not sleep with you” Cole failed and seeing y’all defend the greens is INSANE
Rhaenyra is the Crown Princess, Cole is a mere knight from a common family. Could Cole even say no to the very person who raised him up to be a Kingsguard? She outranks him and in a medieval feudal society, you forget that Rhaenyra is already considered an adult by the society she lives in, ready to be wed and have heirs of her own. Viewing an archaic medieval setting under a modern 21st century lens could not be applicable because the roles and mores of society are so vastly different.
18:16 u don't know that. Lol Alicent is worse coz she pretends Rhaenyra is doing something bad for caring for her children and passing them off as legitimate when Alicent lets her son Aegon get away with things far worse. Like the rape for example. Aegon also has bastards outside of marriage. He cheats regularly. Gambles in child fighting rings where some of his kids are prolly there fighting. He isn't even present for his legitimate children even, he's just busy being a drunkard. Yet Alicent thinks that's ok and Aegon deserves the seat to the iron throne. Alicent made it about one's character, not Rhaenyra.
Alicent lets Aegon get away....? She chastises him through and through. Even says that he's no son of hers and refuses to answer that she loves him. Alicent is a horrible mother, but for the exact opposite reasons as you try to depict. She and Viserys broke that kid with their demanding and demeaning attitudes into becoming a complete failure and scumbag.... Aegon is put on the throne as the only alternative to the chaos of Rhaenyra and Daemon. Otto is clearly meant to rule in practice. It's not about "deserving the throne by being likable", it's about how to most efficiently maintain order and their own safety.
9:40 eh.. Rhaenyra did land him the position he got. Let's not forget that. 20:09 people do support her😂 20:34 power is earned, not given? Have the same energy the next time Alicent pulls this shit. 21:13 nope. Alicent changed her mind the second she saw Rhaenyra cleverly exercised her freedom as heir. She personally didn't like that Rhaenyra had more autonomy over whom she gets with. While she had to go through sacrifice after sacrifice like a good daughter and wife. She feels entitled to control Rhaenyra and when she didn't get her way, she felt slighted coz she thought she only ever wanted to do what was best for her friend. Forgetting her place and her betrayal. Not to mention, Otto had different plans to begin with.
- She got him in that position. That's the main problem. When you hire somebody, you don't try to fuck them. Definetly not when saying either "yes" or "no" could get them killed. Her failure to see that shows her lack of understanding of her subjects and how things are. Also Viserys' fault.... - No, they don't. Tv viewers do, not people in Westeros. That's the point he's making. She never tried to change that. - Actually, Alicent seems to understand this more. As does Rhaenys. Rhaenyra just wants to do what she wants to without the obligations. She wants to rule but refuses to learn the Game of Thrones. - Alicent changed her mind when she realized that she had no understanding of who Rhaenyra was. She had lied to her while swearing on her mother, she had gone against her most fundamental obligations in this system while still claiming virtue with an oscar worthy drama performance, she had willingly put Criston Cole's life on the line by starting an affair with him just for funzies.... To Alicent this means that perhaps Rhaenyra would indeed end up killing her children, just like Otto had told her just before. It's a realization that a lot of viewers appear to miss: Alicent comes to the conclusion that she had always defended Rhaenyra, but that the princess she thought to know might not even be her real self.... Als, Rhaenera didn't have those freedoms as an heir and it was absolutely not clever of her to do as she did. Otherwise she wouldn't have had to lie for it.
Watching this and the Alicent video... The videos are too biased, nothing good about Rhaenyra and nothing bad about Alicent, even excusing any of Alicent's bad actions as a poor little kid with too much pressure on her (i.e. the exact same thing that happened to Rhaenyea). Not to mention the r*apist Aegon being painted in a more positive light than Rhaenyra...
Rhaenyra is not a victim. Plain and simple. She's guilty of everything the Greens accuse her of. Aegon may be a rapist, but at least he knows he'd make a lousy king.
ROFLMFAO This dude is spitting straight facts. Had Rhaenyra played at least some of her cards right or given a shit about earning her power as well, you would probably get another video. Would viewers not be such sheep to root for her and Daemon unconditionally while they're basically shown to be very shitty people, you would have gotten another video. This kind of video puts the apologists in their place. This mindset of "anyone disliking a waman is sexist"-mentality is just as fucked up as incels are.
My problem with Rhaenyra is that she was trying to be her uncle Daemon instead of her great-grandmother Alysanne, Westeros's greatest queen. She was kind and gentle, and she learned to listen to people who were considered beneath her because she cared about helping them and their issues, especially women and girls who suffered so much. If Rhaenyra followed her example, she could be seen as her next coming, and many would probably follow her for that reason alone. But she doesn't. As was said in this video, she liked to believe that people would follow her without question even when Rhaenys spelled out the problem with that line of thinking.
Well none of her examples seemed to either. Viserys saw Jaeherys' rule of peace and tried to rule as peaceful as possible, he also knew little of what he was doing. But with that he set the stage for a greater conflict after his reign.
Daemon was power and excitement, he represented an escape for her restrictions as a lady, which she never seemed to care for even when the fate of the realm is at stake. I can't blame her, but her and Alicent are two opposite sides of the same coin. Alicent did whatever her father wanted, whereas Rhaenyra's father ended up doing what she wanted.
I don't think anyone hyped up her great-grandmother, it's also that we have the more objective view of the reader, where Alysanne was likely overshadowed in public and even family, by the Great King. Rhaenyra's father was too obsessed with his own vision, old Valyria and what people would think of him, where yes it's important that your subjects think well of you, you have the power of dragons both towards war and diplomacy. He used them for neither and thus the House of the Dragon lost its dragons.
I love the irony that she for the first season is being seen as a girlboss taking out the throne from the patriarchal monarchy, but later when she has to choose if another girl should get heritage over her younger brothers she goes for the brothers 💀
Rhaenyra fanboys and -girls seem to have fallen into, what I call, the "Lolita trapp".
This in reference to the novel "Lolita" from Vladimir Nabokov in 1955 about the gruesome abuse of a 12 year old girl by a pedophile who got his hands on her by infiltrating into her family and - as heavily implied, yet denied by the unreliable narrator - murdering her mother afterwards.
Nabokov however wrote everything from the perspective of the villain, leading many readers to identify with his POV and starting to see the 12yo girl, who is oftentimes hinted at as an absolutely unwilling participant in this "relationship" as some sort of complex seductress. Even Stanley Kubrick and Adrian Lyne - disgustingly enough - adopted this analysis when they turned the novel into movie adaptations.
To anyone with a critical eye it was obvious that the protagonist was set up as the bad guy, but people always want to root for the main character, so they start rationalizing even the worst things he does.
Same with Rhaenyra and - even more so - Daemon Targaryen.
I'm not saying that Rhaenyra is "the villain" in the same way, but it can't be denied that so many people get invested in her simply because the show is setting her up as the main character:
- her POV dominates the entire first season;
- she and her eventual allies get to manifest the charismatic side of their personalities most of all in the build up towards the conflict (which makes them at least somewhat compelling, even if not displayed as characters which 'to root for');
- her eventual adversaries get the least build up or barely get their motivations explained, this with the exception of Alicent Higthower;
- events like the deer that she spares etc. are supposed to hint at her being some sort of "chosen one", even though these things never go anywhere and just seem to be there to fuck with the minds of the audience;
- her most favorable depiction (her having sudden doubts about the war) is spared for the climax, maximizing it's impact;
- explicit criticism of her personality being self centered and toxic is barely explained in detail or linked to her immediate actions in that moment, making it always look rather randomn (like when Corlys says it) or even petty (like when Criston says it) instead of - at least to some extent - justified.
And because she's shown as the protagonist, everybody who's 'on her side' ultimately gets the benefit of the doubt from viewers, who want a clear 'team' to root for. This way the perception of Daemon changes from "he's a menace" in the first two episodes to "he's a daddy" later on, even though his character never really becomes a better man....
Once viewers get passed those first impressions, given in by the above, their opinions on Rhaenyra oftentimes seem to get less favorable: she gets to be seen more as kinda bratty, spoiled, borderline mean, irreceptive to the interests and safety of anyone who isn't part of her own immediate nuclear family, without quarrel about killing an innocent servant or ordering her brother to be tortured right after he lost an eye.... She even doesn't really seem to care about women's rights, given the fact that she has no issue with snubbing Baela or Rhaena in favor of her own son Lucerys when it comes down to the Velaryon heritage question, even though the latter obviously has no real bloodties to House Velaryon. She's just yet another snobby Targaryen princess....
However, people like to stick to rooting for the domineering POV character, leading very few of them to get passed their first impressions. It's basically as if the series have set up the "Lolita trapp", but with the heir to the Iron Throne instead of a pedo creep.
Beautifully explained I agree 100%
this is probably the best exemplification of what happened in this series, the producers of this series distorted what was the message of the story into the exact thing that the story criticizes, for me Rhaenyra is clearly a subversion of that is not just because a character is a good revolution within society that the character himself is a great defender of a cause and a good person, Game of thrones exemplified this perfectly with the dialogue between Cercei and Joffrey in episode 3 of season 1, Joffrey wants to replace the system of feudal armies to create a army loyal to the crown and much more organized and well trained, is this a revolution in the wuesteros political system that would be extremely beneficial overall (does this make Joffrey a good person?) absolutely not!
Well said!
Well said!!
And I dare to say the only reason Alicent is the exemption, because writers know that the audience eats up Rhaenicent. They even seem to have changed Alicent’s personality/character further in season 2 to have more scenes about or alluding to their bond, love and falling out, and regrets etc.
In regards to Laenor, this is a good example of Rhaenyra acting out of passion and inability to make decisive decisions. One, if she knew he preferred men she could have told her father that and suggest that she instead marry another member of House Velaryon. Two, even later on when it seems Laenor is infertile instead of cheating ,a divorce on the grounds of infertility could have happened and she again could have married another Velaryon. The Harwin affair was out of passion and ultimately short-sightedness; Rhaenyra simply wanted Harwin and didn't think about anything else. Also given Jace's and Luke's ages it seems the Harwin affair began very soon after her marriage to Laenor, well before any fertility issued could be firmly established.
Viserys should have scolded her ass and kept a watch. Even if Otto was lying about her behavior unbecoming a princess, even the very rumor is a giant threat to their line. And that she needed to be perfectly careful. But for him it was too easy to turn a blind eye to the daughter who is the very image of the wife he loved so much but selfishly sacrificed for a son. But he 180d too hard and didn't care at all about his actual son even though at the very least he should've been conscious to the fact that Aegon may challenge her or be propped up, so he would have to ensure bonds between them or at least something more concrete than "YOU'RE FAMILY DAMN IT GET ALONG" for 20 years.
Well in the book she does say that she thinks Laenor would prefer her brother (aegon) over her. But they didn't include that in the show because they're somehow trying to present Rhaenyra as some progressive.
I don't even think it was infertility. From Rhaenyra's words abt the sexual encounters with Laenor (where she said they tried but didn't specify if they actually did it)it's seems like it was mostly Impotence. And most Impotence is related to sexual attraction. So since he is gay he wasn't upto doing it with her when they tried. Maybe She would have gotten angry with rejection or frustrated and ran for the next best option. That's what she did when Daemond ran half way into their encounter and she switched to Criston immediately without a thought.
I knew Rhaenyra was a narcissist ruler from her tour around the kingdom. It displays her very toxic pride. She might've been more rounded out by the writers but the subtleties of how she treats the other nobles of the kingdom makes it obvious. She expects fealty, but never gives any due respect for those that give there word to honor her reign. She thinks the flow of power starts and ends with her, and she's wrong. And that is to say nothing on how she treats commoners as exemplified in how she treats Sir Christen Cole.
She’s not perfect and like almost every other high born she’s out of touch and spoiled but to say that she is worse than Aegon is just … a shit take
@@dielol8172 that's Fair, but it's not just "Aegon 2," there's his mother, His Grandsire, Ser Cole, the last of the Strongs, and arguably his brother who can pick up the slack. Of a drunken puppet king. He is an objectively terrible person, no argument there, but he's surrounded by very compotent people. I have no idea how he's going to fair in the future.
I always hear Alicent=Cerse=Evil Queen, but Alicent is more like Catelyn then Cersei, while Rhaenyra is more like Cersei
Why her father didn't have her by his side and ruling as his hand is minds boggling. Having her there would have given her a chance to learn to rule and helped ease her into ruling with the small folk.
True, but to be fair: learning how to rule from Viserys is like learning how to apply hairdye from Rudy Giuliani....
Rhaenyra is the privileged feminist. She can do we she pleases, the worst things she does in her youth only earn her a slap on the wrist, metaphorically speaking. People who just defend her no matter what baffle me. Because she is no Arya, she is not even a Sansa. She is a "I wanna live my way until it actually impacts me".
I wouldn't really call her a feminist. She never seems to care about the position of women in general.
Good point
In Fire & Blood at least it honest depiction. She just another player. She sympathetic because she loses her children, & sexism. But Fire & Blood there no hint that she this morally righteous person on the show. She isn’t Maegor with tears as common folk will later describe her but she isn’t no Daeron the Good.
One of my biggest frustration is Alicent & Rhaenyra relationship them being childhood friends who became the most bitterest of enemies I thought wow that compelling because both are in wrong & right. Alicent did marry her dad & is tryna to actively steal the throne that her father the king named her heir. While Rhaenyra did lie to her on her mother grave & as Otto said correctly Rhaenyra or someone in her faction will murder her children to secure her hold on the throne.
But show backtracked & robbing of them that agency. These women besides Viserys & Ser Criston Cole are most responsible for Dance. Yet the show robs them of responsibility.
At least one of her children would likely still be alive if she and her father had punished him over mutilating Aemond. Highly doubtful Aemond would have become what he was, or remained vindictive for years later if there had been some form of punishment over it.
They would all be alive. But if Viserys had some backbone then he would have them sent off to other parts of westeros for punishment
@@Thrawn23.Viserys is probably rolling in his grave, now that he realized he should have married off rhaenyra and aegon like Otto suggested.
It was a debt , taking aemonds eye was a debt Luke incurred
Like all debts they have interest which compound with time
At the time Luke died his life had become the price to repay that debt
Doing the lords work here my man. I'm not team green but this video is chef's kiss, Rhaenyra did nothing and expected everything. It's not fair she has to be this perfect angel to people want her in the throne but it's her reality
Yeah, you and us all have talked about this before, but the bit with the lords at storms end is really telling. For how her succession would go.
She doesn’t inspire confidence and she comes across as capricious and petty. Granted she is a teenage girl and many of the suitors are ridiculous both to her and us (too old, too young, too poor, not being her shady uncle)
But the way she goes about putting them down is again,
telling. She spends the entire time dunking on these poor lords. Good example. Lord Dondarrion.
Not too powerful on their own, but they are a proud and powerful force in the marches, and they take pride in their generational efforts to protect the marches. He is too old, but he traveled to storms end and got put down and publicly humiliated. Too many Dondarrions and Brackens and Crakehalls and Peakes and it doesn’t matter if you have the lords of the realm backing you. You’ve been outnumbered and they’re too busy fighting their vassals to send help.
Finally the impression that this gives to the public. Borros Baratheon, is hissed and spat by crowds in bars watching this show for going back on his fathers oath, but he was probably there when she roasted half the bachelors in Westeros because she was bored and then started a deathmatch.
Then all he heard was all the rumours and the news from kings landing and Dragonstone, and then she wants him to march into fire and blood to put her on the iron throne because my father promised and because she says that her children are related to him WHICH THEY OBVIOUSLY AREN’T.
She was setting herself up in her youth and by the time she realised it was too late.
Yes! This part about what happened in storms end is so true. Imagine what Borros father had to deal in the aftermath of the Bracken and Blackwood fight because she didn't know how to de-escalate the situation. Impression is reality and the impression she passes is not very good.
The Baratheons were snubbed by the Iron Throne in 101, then - unlike with the Velaryons - Viserys never tried to mend the divide, largely because Otto kept presenting them as unreliable (likely to futher his own machinations). Episode 1 briefly shows this at the tournament.
Both Viserys and Rhaenyra severely misjudged their relationship with Storm's End.
True she could be a pretentious and sometimes rude little princess, but it's also endearing to watch her say and do more as she wants in this deeply patriarchal society.
Also not one single mention in the video of how she was the only one preventing war before Luke was killed by Aemond.
@@cynicaltheastrocreep4504 doesn't matter what she wants she could've left and be a whore instead of a princess
@@cynicaltheastrocreep4504 in fact viserys should've pulled a jaeherys and killed em so she knows
Rhaenyra was not politically savy. If she was she may have gotten the Iron Throne without the Dance of the Dragons. Her marrying Daemon was also a big political mistake since people did not want Daemon to be king.
One of the things people don't notice is rhaenyra treats everyone like shit except for the select people she liked.
Good deep dive into Rhaenyra’s/Viserys’ non-existent relationship with Hightower side of the family. I wanted to learn more about that.
You wont see it,it was not like that in the books, just a change for us to simpatize with the Hightowers
Lol the real question she should ask herself is that if her mother actually gave birth to a son, would her father still made her heir to his throne … or if her father had remarry another taeygarean would she had been considered, even if she was the first child … she’s literally an opportunist, viserà dint name aegon his heir because he was bias and maybe because he told her about the prophecy already … that’s all I can say in defense of visereys but he’s propably the second worst king after the mad king …
I also wonder if Baelon survived and until he was of age he named Rhaenyra heir then decided not to change the sucsession. Many theories can spawn from this. Like what if he remarried and and still had children with Alicent. What would Baelons personality be like and what would be his reaction to the sucsesion battle
Someone said it finally. Even Viserys could see it. He says it repeatedly, especially when she won't decide who to marry, she's just contrarian and stubborn. If he had forbid her to marry a Lannister, she would have immediately absconded with him, eloped and married him.
She is A TEENAGER. For fuck's sake. Did you... seriously neither date teenage girls in highschool whose dads might not have liked you or who did risky shit because they felt invincible? That is, lmfao, the entire point of being a teenager. And Robb can behead sons of loyal bannermen and teenage Jon can hang little boys, but oooh no, a teeange girl didn't want to marry an arrogant prig.
The hypocrisy of male so-called "fans" like you is really telling. Say you hate women louder, please. She is by no means a saint but really, her father forced her against her will to be the heir, then wed her to a gay man who would never get it up for her and expected her to punch out babies like he expected it of her mother--for which, by the way, he MURDERED her mother. What the hell was she supposed to do except "go forth and multiply"... with someone she held a tenderness for and trusted? Jesus. This fandom crucifies her not for her actual personal faults, of which there are many, but mainly for being a) a teenager girl when Arya said the same shit re: getting married and you people ate it up and b) not raping her gay husband to force his likely infertile self to give her children. I just can't.
@@blissinchainsby our standards she's a teenager, but by the values of Westeros, she's an adult.
Certainly not a Revolutionary.(at least, not in the sense of the movement described itself).
If she becomes Queen, women won't suddenly "overcome the Patriarchy". Shoot, she evene offered her sons in marriage ti Rhaena and Baela, and she tells Princess Rhaenys that "their sons will rule after them". Stating that this whole "female heir" thing she's got going on is exclusive, for the most part, to her and her alone.
Daddy's precious princess gets her way, and she's special. So rules don't apply to her... or so they thought.
Damn, man. You have some really good HOTD character videos.
Rheanyra wants to take the samethings she will never give , some people think she's a feminist revolution leader , she's not she was not feminist in the matter of her son succession to driftmark , she's just a selfish person
She wasn't a ruler or a revolutionary, she was pretty much a tyrant.
I’ve always had a distinct feeling that people only support Rhaenyra because she is a woman, and in this Woman=Good, Man=Bad narrative Hollywood/the West is pushing, she’s the side to root for because people think she’s gonna make sweeping changes to Westeros for women. There’s a lot of TB fans due to this, but they forget to judge whether Rhaenyra herself is a competent and able leader and surrounded by competent and able councillors. Unfortunately, if you delve into the latter two points, the Dance clearly shows Rhaenyra’s ineffectiveness and incapability of making active, firm decisions. She never rides Syrax into battle, and makes dumb decision after dumb decision. Her councillors are selfish and self-interested, and Daemon’s reputation and penchant for violence does her no PR credits. Rhaenys was killed off too early because Rhaenyra was stupid enough to send her alone without backup when they know the other side has VHAGAR, and Corlys’ faith in Rhaenyra dwindles rapidly after his wife’s death. Jace sets off to save his brothers ALONE, when Rhaenyra could’ve ridden Syrax-a larger and older dragon than Vermax-to battle to help save her own fucking kids and protect Jace’s back. But no, this shows again, Rhaenyra’s resemblance to Viserys’ style of ruling, which is too much passivity and lack of firm action.
I don't look at her as a revolutionary in my eyes and all my opinions, she will never be that based on her actions alone and her behavior. She's no revolutionary, but she does carry the heavy burden on her back that her father passed on to her. She does take after her father more than she takes after anyone taken after her father and being groomed by her uncle are bad combination from what we've seen, but as from what we have seen in Westeros, which is worse, the people in the Realm or the people that rule the realm.
There are some of her actions that I disagree with, and I do not condone the one about Kristen. Cole is the one that I heavily agree with because her lust overtook her sense of responsibility, and she does not see that she turned a very loyal asset into a catastrophic weapon: her negligence of the people, her deceitful lies about her son, and her reckless behavior. It's all wrapped up by her father, who failed to teach her, but more so, it also comes from the fact that no one on the small council bothered to teach or coach her. They neglect and ignore her, so her rebellious nature is understandable. People always overlook the small things that can always push the big things.
I support her but I'm not blind to her wrongdoings, I believe that it's her father's actions and the actions of everyone around her that make her rebel.
I hate how everyone thinks shes a revolutionary...she didnt give a shit about other women only her own claims
To think she could have appeased the Velaryon's by backing Rhaena/Baela's claims to Driftmark, cementing absolute primogeniture, honoring Laena. But nah
Really love these deep dives on individual characters.
Great why to analyze the series. I haven't thought of Rhaenyra quite like this yet.
She's not nearly as sympathetic as the writers want us to think she is.
Just watched the last two videos in a row having just found you within the hour. These are so good man, keep it up!
Although new, he is by far among the best when it comes to analyzing this show and specifically its characters. Far too many ppl fundamentally struggle because they:
1 Can't suspend their disbelief (In other words, look at the story in the context of the storyworld instead of under the lens of today's debatable standards: Ppl who say "Viserys *killed* Aemma" are a prime example)
2 Can't grasp the notion that "Heroes & Villains" rarely apply in TWOIAF. This isn't their childhood cartoons showing the story of a protagonist who is always "the good guy".
3 Morally ambiguous characters (this ties into my 2nd point). There are 2 basic things to consider when viewing a character; their actions and their reasoning behind their actions. Benevolent intentions can cause malevolent acts and malevolent intentions can cause benevolent acts. Therein lies the ambiguity of character morality.
4 One can reasonably understand/relate to a character BUT that doesn't mean the character is right or "the good guy". Far too many ppl will look at someone like Rhaenyra and attempt to "justify" her and/or her actions but that overlooks the purpose. The goal should be to "understand" the characters. The reverse is also true where ppl will hear/see the worst vile acts of someone *out of context* (context makes a massive difference), and will immediately demonize them. These same flippant ppl would be siding with "the Villain" if the story was told from their perspective (although they would swiftly deny that bursting bubble) which shows their lack of comprehension and self awareness.
I honestly don’t understand why anyone expects her to be perfect in every way in order to be liked and worthy or the throne or just to be a great respected character in general she has such high expectations in general which I think is unfair cause if you look at the like of Jaime Lannister or Tyrion Lannister in general they are some of the most liked characters regardless of their faults so why can’t rhaenyra or other be the same ?
Exactly! Also, you certainly shouldn't expect her to be perfect ruler when she was in midst of war and world was collapsing on her head! Every ruler makes controversial decisions during war.
It simply is the mentality of she does her own thing and goes against the traditions of the realm, then still expects all the benefits of it to be handed on a plate well not doing much to earn it. From there now all these mistakes are piling up and she is taking dangerous paths to ensure her mistakes are kept under wraps. My issues with her and similar characters is entitlement, as they just expect the whole world to cater for their needs, well they go break every rule from the system they want no part in and kill those who question it.
@@spartanoreo5075 Which was rule broken by her? Viserys broke tradition by naming her his heir while he had living son - that's all. And show-Rhaneyra doesn't do "nothing". In fact she is very active as Princess - she get back egg from Daemon in diplomatic way, she also is part of Royal Council, she even stays for decade in King's Landing. She also resigns of idea of remaining unmarried - she accepts that if she wants be successor, she must have an heir of her own, as thi is duty of every ruler. I am very tired of people syaing "she does nothing", when she does EVERYTHING that Crown Princess is suppose to do. She serves in council, she gave birth to heirs... what else she is suppose to do? Rhaneyra in book might have indeed act very entitled, but show-Rhaneyra is very dutiful.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518she has 3 bastard kids. Antagonizes her uncle in front of her future in laws. Putting a bastard on the iron throne.
The realm believes she had her first husband killed n marries her uncle immediately after her husband death.
Wasn’t in king’s landing for 6 years hasn’t build any alliances, n supports a law that STATES ITS TREASON TO TALK ABOUT MY TREASON.
Rhaenyra is an imbecile.
@@jjosifovic The one who is "imbecile" is you. She has legitimate kids that are acknowledged by her husband who was UNABLE to have kids. How else she suppose to have en heir??? "Antagonizes"... WHAT???? She didn't put "a bastard" on Iron Throne. Her children are legitimate in eyes of law. The ONLY person who could denounce them is Laenor - and he didn't, so case is closed. "Realm believe" - that is BELIEF. None can prove this. Also - I don't think realm cares anyway. "Wans't in King's Landing for 6 years" - okay, let's ignore she lived her for TEN years. "States its terason to talk about my treason" - NONE can prove her any treason, so yes - it is TREASON to besmudge her name and legitimacy of her children as NONE can prove they are not legitimate. So, yeah. You are imbecile. You're welcome.
Daemon next! These videos have been great!
You’re doing a really good job with these videos they’re really informative and entertaining I can’t wait to see if your channel grows
I have the to agree with all your points the hypocrisy that comes from Green side baffles me. Fans give Rhaenyra a halo effect and literally ignore her flaws. I like her as a character but her fans drag it. But I think it comes from the books, we definitely don’t see all the layers to her in the books and Aliecent is a lot older i. the books which really paints her to be that evil step mother. This show makes their friendship a foundation which I think people forget . It’s okay tho Rhae has flaws she’s definitely going to reap what she sows and I’m team chaos so I can’t wait to see the reactions 😈
True, it's her fans who are annoying.
I love a flawed character, but they keep acting as if most of those flaws don't even exist.
Viserys, should not have gotten remarried and then didn't even make her his hand, thus helping her establish her foothold of power. And this is when he decides to ignore marrying brother to sister? This all goes back to viserys. And one dragon in all that time before
And what if Rhaenyra had died before her father? We're talking about a medieval society with a high death rate.
@@Simon-A.-Tan That would be when Daemon would be heir...hell, at that time the family was thriving. Plus, really it should have been Rhaenys line that inherited the throne. The family tree is really more of a shrub anyways, so its not like it would go to some distant relative. Remarrying and not doing more to establish Rhaenyra's claim was dumb. Hell, even dis inheritance after her marrying his brother would have been more of a precise choice.
Hehe ...you and Hills Alive should do a Podcast!! ;)
But yes! Love your takes aswell!
Would love a Cole Video or Otto video!!
Hills Alive has some great takes, but also some pretty horrible ones imo.
@@Simon-A.-Tan uhhh like what do u like and what do u dislike?? Just curious? 🤔
Rhaenyra was the heir to The Iron Throne. This is irrefutable. However, I don't think she was fit to rule. She wanted to be the Queen' of the Sevin Kingdoms, but i dont think she thought past that. She was on Dragon Stone fucking Daemon for quite some time & only came back because the succession was being confested. Rhaenys told her about what happened at The Great Council of 101, she should have anticipated the pushback. She wasn't prepared; not even a little bit.
But you can see she DIDN'T want it, did she? She even considered ceding to Aegon before Luke was you know... murdered by a manchild with a nuke for a pony and thought chasing him around with the intent to maim and kill was fun. People like you love to point out, falsely, that she wanted the throne--whatever other mistakes she makes, and plenty of them, really: she DIDN'T WANT IT. Her father forced the issue to use her as a meatshield because he was afraid of his own little brother. What a cuck. Otto Hightower MADE him afraid of the most loyal man he had.
Viserys never believed in her. She never believed in her--and otherwise, oh no, she fucked another man when she had an open marriage and her husband was fucking every squire that struck his fancy. Get over yourself. Her drunken rapist pos of a brother was ""not prepared even one bit" either. It should have been Daemon left as the heir, period. He was, idefc what you say, the most fit to rule. He made hard choices? Boo fucking hoo. The Westerosi were out to stamp out the Valyrian bloodline--and they did. :) Eventually. It'd have been a different story with Daemon at the helm.
finally someone said it
This video is very true but I think one reason people go overboard defending rhanerya is because the audience mostly hate and have no respect for the sexist system of westeros so they see her breaking all the rules as good not realizing that she does alot of immoral and sometimes even downright evil things
I'm fed up with the term "revolutionary" being thrown around so much for things, characters or real world people who are an unrevolutionary as it comes.
Case in point: Rhaenyra is the daughter of the king and his chosen heir. Even without that with her wealth, power and family connections she's heavily rooted in the establishment system. She is a product of it, and just being a woman is not revolutionary.
There's a good reason why the historical conflict that inspired this show, or many other historical conflicts or leaders are never described as revolutionary: they wanted to maintain the system of power and just replace one bunch of elite with another and themselves at the top.
P.S. As there is nobody truly revolutionary to root for in the show (i.e. from outside the established aristocracy with intentions to really change things, like overthrow feudalism), I am also Team Chaos. 👍
Yeah a revolution is generally a significant change or replacement to the system of government with another one by people outside of that ruling body. The same way a military overthrowing its country is usually a coup d'etat rather than a revolution, like the Greens taking control after Viserys dies is a palace coup. Rhaenyra being or becoming queen wouldn't be revolutionary, Andal inheritance doesn't forbid women from inheritance, boys just come before girls.
Had the same issue with Fable 3 calling its plot a revolution when it's about replacing the current king with their younger brother/sister. The concept of a revolution is very popular in entertainment, but not really understood lol
you have a very soothing voice
and the videos are on point too
good work.
Rhaenyra is aritocart true an true. Only wanted the attention of her father was younger. Later to petty to heal the bond within her family. Both sides have faults neither is totally right. Both have made mistakes and all boils into a pot of chaos.
This is an amazing channel, love your in deep dive videos on HOD characters. I’m personally Team Black, but you are absolutely right about Rhaenyra’s overall personality. Her disconnection with her subjects will lead to great problems in the future, where they will start to compare her to a certain very disliked King of the past.
Speaking straight facts 👌👌👌👌
Recently found your channel. Killer coverage of the show canon
If Rhaenyra wasn't guilty of just about everything the Greens accuse her of, she'd be worth rooting for.
My decision still stand that the greens shouldve let rhaenyra be queen so she could've mess up.
Literally! Then Aegon swoops in on a Gold Dragon and saves westeros from the “Mad Queen”(westerosi misogyny)
@@AssassinOfHatred and alicent to keep her mouth shut
She would put her people into power, execute Otto FOR SURE ( or Daemon would do it) and gain the legitimacy in the eyes of 7 kingdoms after the coronation.
The greens did the right thing, just Aemond fucked it up
You were spitting, people know the truth but they act blind by it
Back here after S2 aired! This video aged really well. The writers, not just the fans, are heavily biased toward Rhaenyra. They try to paint her as in the right in every situation, and even ramp up the negative traits of others to make her look good by comparison. This became even more obvious in s2. The story is a very shallow "girlboss feminism" that shows that while the writers/showrunners they want to have a feminist, progressive show they have very surface-level understandings of social justice.
I have issues with the people who say you are sexist if you don't support her, or that she should be heir regardless of whether she's actually qualified for the job. Again, this plays into superficial "girlboss" feminism.
I also take a similar issue with Rhaenys (Queen who never was) because she also shows a lack of leadership skill.
One of the writers on the show (when asked about Rhaenys killing peasants with her dragon, many of whom were women) she said and I quote: "In GOT, civilians don't count". Shows their mindset, sadly.
"Girlboss feminism" erases the nuances of class, wealth, and other factors from the equation. RHaenyra and Rhaenys did not have the privilege of gender, but they had every other privilege imaginable in contrast to the others in the Realm.
It's okay to admit Rhaenyra isn't a revolutionary feminist, just a morally grey character or villain. I think people are blinded to this by how well Emma D'Arcy and Millie Alcock portrayed them. They were such good, likeable actresses that we think its her character we like, but its really just the actresses. And I feel like this push to stan RHaenyra no matter what is deeply undermining the show's quality.
It was also wild how people gloss over the fact she slept with Daemon ON THE EVE OF HIS WIFE'S FUNERAL.
Suggesting Rhaenyra sleep with other Velaryons or random servants to ensure her children's race fits the male standards of Westeros completely removes the female autonomy that Rhaenyra's story conveys. I think you're the point of her story. GRRM has said he could write a novela about Rhaenyra and Harwin's romance.
*missing
Exactly. They are so eager to fall in line. Sheep.
Rhaen yra does not have female authority.
She basks on her father (a male) words for her claim to the throne.
she steals other women's inheritance, for her MALE sons.
But her body doesn't belong to her. It has been, and always will be the property of the state because of her royal status and position.
So she is suposed to have the privileges of the systems she profits(she is an princess and wants to be queen) over but not the burdens(having to marry and have legitimate sons) ? how fair and great, truly an incredible take...
to be fair, her mother would have died anyway. the baby needs to come out, one way or the other. if it won't come out the normal way, c-section would have been the only choice. and considering medical practices weren't the best in medieval times, a c-section would have been a death sentence. but so would be having a dead baby rotting inside you. but i do get that from her perspective her father's order caused her mother's death
Aemma was never told, never asked about what was happening and if she consented to any of it. Her body was just... garbage, to those men. A possession. And you claim conservatives reopened the abortion debate, my god you're inhuman.
Can you do daeron Targaryen the 3 son of alicent the beloved and most liked out of all viserys kids
I probably won’t do Daeron until season 2 drops and we actually get to see him and have more information to tackle
@@TheEmpyreanSpeaks ok got you 👍🏾
I think a key point of why she chose Harwin instead of someone else is because she loved him. Sure, she could have found someone else, but I'm not going to judge a woman for choosing to have sex with a man she loved instead of one that was expedient. She isn't wrong to carve out some happiness for herself. And reducing a ten-year relationship to, "well, she needed heirs and made a stupid choice in partners," isn't really fair.
All that is to say nothing of trust. She might have found someone who looked like Laenor, but could she trust them? You say she has options, but not necessarily ones that she would trust with her life. As I said above, she loved Harwin; it makes sense she would trust him. But how could she know that the sperm donor she found wouldn't get caught bragging about sleeping with the princess? She may have gotten unlucky with their hair color (because there was every possibility the kids would look like her; she couldn't control genetics), but she picked someone who would never betray her. That kind of loyalty matters.
Then there is her "running away," which I think clearly shows how completely you dismiss how bad King's Landing was for her during the timeskip. There is no way Alicent was willing and able to tear her newborn child from her arms as the first act of aggression. That sort of treatment seems to have been happening for years. So, if she needs to leave for her own sanity, she shouldn't be judged for it.
If she wanted happyness over government, then she should have abdicated the throne. It comes at a massive price, especially for the first female ruler.
Her challenges would have always been enormous, yet she didn't even try to overcome them. People act as if she's entitled to have everything go her way.
Love is the death of duty
I mostly agree but I think the fact that Rhaenyra made a genuine attempt to hold back from war should soften this judgement. At the very least she did stop to ask "is this best for the Realm?" Considering how high the stakes were for her family that's not nothing. (As for how this changes after her son's death... I'd rather wait for Season 2. A lot will depend on who ordered what etc.)
Your argument isn't really valud bcz even here she's being a hypocrite.
She said she won't start a war yet at the same time she agreed with corlys and sent rhaenys to protect the blockage they put over the narrow sea.
The blockage in question would've deprived kingslanding and nearing areas of FOOD, TRADE etc. That's not very “is it best for the realm” of her now is it? Lol
In addition to this, the aforementioned actions would also make her an unfavourable person in the eyes of the people she wants to rule, they would have no one else to blame but the dragon queen who is starving them of food and taking away chances of trade; dooming their businesses.
@@hightower19 I get were you're coming from but blockades take effect gradually. She at least leaves things open to de-escalate before things get too bad (unlike Otto and Daemon's plans). She reminds me of Alicent who's simultaneously trying to strengthen the Green's regime while also trying to avoid killing Rhaenyra and her family. Real life peace negotiations tend to involve lots of contradictory actions because nobody knows if they'll work or not. Total war and unconditional surrender are the only ways of avoiding these sorts of contradictions.
Funny how your voice keeps cracking! 😂😂😂 thank you for making me laugh today 🥰
Yeah lol. I hate that but by the time I notice I just don’t feel like re-recording so I just edit what I can 😂
10:42 THIS!!!! THIS!!!!
great effort 💯
She's terrible at the game. If she wasnt Targaryen she wouldnt make it as far as she does.
But thats what makes her so intriguing to me. She manages to get by regardless.
Thank you for this analysis when I first watched house of the Dragon I was completely team Ryanair but after I knew about fire and blood I completely switched to team Aegon 3 and jaehaera 1st
I don't think current rhaenyra wants a revolution, clearly she just wants to sit the iron throne and set up her boys as heir. Though if she sat the iron throne it would actually set a precedent which would inadvertently help future female claimants. Also i mostly agree expect for the choosing part, people don't choose who they're in love with. Having bastards is an issue but expecting her to be some of genius genetic engineer who finds the someone with her exact needed genealogy and bang them is silly
IMO 'Revolutionary' in this video doesn't refer to like a radical regime change like the kind Dany wanted. I think the author of this video meant it in like a cultural revolutionary sense where women hold more power and can hold lands. And whether Rhaenyra wants that or not, her sitting on the Iron Throne would probably have that effect to some extent but that does not make her some paragon of virtue.
And look where that love got her kids. Like it or not, she put herself and her children in grievous danger but not having a Velaryon looking child.
Good argument and video, I just have to mention something: Viserys chose Rhaenyra as his heir, her sons claims come directly from her, not from being more or less inbred targaryens. Traditionally, Targs chose their successors, her claim and her sons is inquestionable since it was approved and decreed by Viserys himself. It wouldn't ever matter who's their father for the succession to the Iron Throne, only for the succession of Driftmark, in my opinion.
Yes, their claims do come from Rhaenyra but if the knowledge came out that they were not Laenor’s sons that claim would not matter. Any child born outside of marriage by man or woman would still be a bastard. As such it doesn’t matter that Viserys named her heir, Aegon, Aemond, Daeron and even Helaena would come before them in terms of succession. Yes, Viserys has claimed them but that was always under the context of them being Velaryons ACCUSED of bastardy. Not a bastard being legitimatized. So really he’s not even claiming them, just defending them against rumors and making them seem like lies and slander. To truly, legally, and officially claim them he’d have to out them as bastards then legitimatize them as Strongs as the children of Harwin. At this point, them being bastards is just speculation as no one will admit to it and no one has true evidence to prove it as their obvious looks can be denied. If Rhaenyra was the only one that mattered then the whole issue of bastardy would never be a problem. It doesn’t matter if their pure inbred Targaryens what matters is if their conception was’s within the legal bonds of marriage( because of how negatively Westeros views children who aren’t) and that’s what makes them truly valid not just Rhaenyra being their mom.
@@TheEmpyreanSpeaks I get your point, I truly do, but I feel like you're viewing the situation from a westerosi succession point of view, while Targaryens are portrayed as valyrians who are above tradition. Only after Jahaerys does that change, so Rhaenyra, in a sense, doesnt have westerosi legitimacy mas does have all the valyrian legitimacy, if that makes sense. Of course all the Dance happens in Westeros so for all intents and purposes both Viserys and Rhaenyra have royally fucked up (pun intended)
@@TheEmpyreanSpeaksexcept they wouldn't discredit a man's children's legitimacy so fast as they did with Rhaenyra for being a woman. If Rhaenyra were a dude, no one would ever question this shit.
@@happilyevernever4289No, but if you want to win you need to play by the rules of the game until you can make your own.
Wtf are you talking about , Jon Snow was thought to be a man's bastard, it's not like they treated him as a Stark or member of the family ! @@happilyevernever4289
I love your opinions
What I love about this show is that every last character is deeply flawed and complex. I root for Damon, but in truth he's a complete asshole. I'm not sure if it's Matt Smith's performance or just because he's a bad boy. I'm obsessed with this show and can't wait for Season 2.
Couldn't agree more
These videos are so awesome. I have disagreements will some parts of all the videos.
(Except aegon, I agree with your pov.)
I’m subscribed and like every video. Can’t wait for Daemon and also hoping you do the same time on the smaller characters. Once you are done with the main cast.
Awesome! Absolutely awesome!
The show is different than the books and show Rhaenyra isn’t as bad, book rhaenyra was slandered but even if half of what they say is true she was cruel. I think rhaenyra in the show would’ve been a level headed ruler if she inherited the kingdom and didn’t lose all her children.
Considering The Targaryens have married Valaryons in the past, and the current Targaryens are related to House Valaryon it would've made more sense to make both House Targaryen and Valaryon Black. It would've kept some of the mystery from the book. Viserys and Daemon's father was half Valaryon. Because Jahaerys' mother was Alyssa Valaryon, and Jahaery's married his sister. So House Targaryen and Valaryon should be the same race.
Or... both white, and have House Celtigar be black, which would have been awesome, too. They'd actually have had some screentime. We have never seen them in nine seasons' worth of ASOIAF.
@@blissinchains It wouldn't have worked with modern hollywood restrictions. You need at minimum 3-4 main characters of afro descent. The Celtigars are not main characters. The show runners would lose funding.
Let's be honest the only reason Houses support her is because of Daemon, they all know he is the real king and will be after they win the war, and the fans support her because of Daemon. Am i the only one who finds her similar to Malfoy from Harry Potter he used to always go ''My Father, my father' whenever someone challenged him, privileged and spoiled character.
If it wasn’t for Rhynera cole wouldn’t have ever gotten his white cloak also he was the one who flirted with her first btw.
I think the cole situation is best explained by glidus i would recommend viewing that video
@@diogenes7663omg I love glidus videos. Pisstakes AND bliss takes!
@@HeatherHoltHes so effortlessly funny. Love his videos
So if a man gets a woman high-ranking position, then she's obligated to sleep with him?
When did he ever make a move on her then? I didn't see it.
Also, Rhaenyra being the sole reason why Cole got his white cloak is the root of the problem and the power imbalance. As this guy says himself.
When you hire somebody, you don't try sleeping with them afterwards. Definetly when it's punishable by death for them to say either 'yes' or 'no'.
A few things…Laenor and Rhaenyra did try to conceive, like multiple times. He just couldn’t get her pregnant. Also Lucerys has actually a good amount of velayron blood in him from his Targaryen heritage. He is also betrothed to Baela Targaryen who is half Velaryon. So their children would have the Velaryon name and a good amount of Velaryon blood as well. Vaemond was just pissed that he wasn’t going to rule Driftmark.
I meant he is betrothed to Rhaena
First:I know they did, I literally made the point that since Laenor wasn’t getting her pregnant it would’ve been a smarter choice for her to bed a Velaryon or at least someone who resembled them.
Second: That good amount comes from his great great great mother, and before that his great great great great grandmother. At this point that blood is diluted, even if it wasn’t, the Velaryons have more attributes in the show canon and Lucerys has none of them. He’s white as cream in comparison to them. But even if that blood was considered, it comes from women who were just married off. Their claims would mean nothing to Driftmark. Luke at best is a really distant cousin in comparison to Vaemond who’s related to the families main line. This is like arguing that it’s ok for the Velaryons to sit throne because they all technically have Targaryen blood without the inclusion of Rhaenys because the two families intermarried all the time in past before Aegon forged the throne. Once again, that blood mainly comes from women who were married off and the great council of 101 showed how they view men’s claims in comparison to that of a woman. Then there’s Targaryen incest as well. With all that inbreeding the Targaryens would once again be seen as “pure” and mainly identify with their Targaryen blood over the velaryon.
Third:I won’t deny Vaemond has ambitions but, Luke is a bastard. Bastards are viewed as impure incarnations of evil and lust. So for these people to lie and say he’s the heir to house Velaryon in comparison to Vaemond who is true born, has all the Velaryon/Valyrian traits, and is the closest in relation to Corlys is an insult. Even with Rhaena, she’ll always be considered Targaryen before Velaryon. And even with her blood from Laena taken into account it’s still like their family titles are being passed to people who don’t deserve them because people will always look to the father before the mother. This is even true for Rhaenyra. Even with her kids claims to the throne coming from her it still matters that Laenor is their father, if it’s revealed he’s not they have no claim to driftmark and the knowledge of bastardy would severely reduce their claim to throne, especially in the face of Viserys’s other four children. If Luke had taken driftmark and his bastardy was revealed, then his kids would be arguably illegitimate as heirs as well because this isn’t a matrilineal marriage. It doesn’t matter what blood received from way back when or through marriage he had no right to driftmark.
@@TheEmpyreanSpeaks I appreciate the reply. My bad if I missed that you said they tried to conceive. In the video you made it sound like that laenor didn’t want to have sex with her at all so that’s why she should choose another man with velaryon traits. Also still on the fence about the Vaemond thing, I know what you’re getting at with Luc, but I still think him being heir was really only an issue for Vaemond and the Greens. Corlys was fine with it “History remember names not blood”. Also Rhaena is Corlys grandchild which makes her a direct descendant of the first born son in house Velaryon. Also you act like it’s official that luc is a bastard, he is technically one yes, but leanor has claimed him as his true born son and no one could officially call him a bastard without being killed if his mother or brother was on the iron throne. There was heavy speculation that Aenys was a bastard and not the son of Aegon, but people didn’t care because Aegon still claimed him as his son despite the rumors.
@@TheEmpyreanSpeaks I feel like the only way you can be officially labeled as a bastard in Westeros, is if the father officially denounces the child as their own. Most bastards are a combination of high born men and peasant women so it’s obvious when they are bastards. But if the mother is highborn, then the only real way to officially label that child a bastard is if the father claims that it is not his. Laenor will always say Lucerys is his true born son, so no one can really say he is a bastard without severe consequences. Especially if his mother or brother were on the iron throne while he ruled Driftmark.
Laenor is infertile. So what else was she supposed to do? She fell in love with the captain of the city watch and they had an affair. Laenor was having affairs since before their marriage and never stopped, with his squires. But one is okay and the other is not?
To the narrator nobody ever said Rainiera was perfect ! As a matter of fact she was far from perfect. Her brother took what was rightfully hers, among other things.
The fact that she thought gaslighting everyone with a working pair of eyes was clever planning pretty much disqualifies her from the Iron Throne.
If we’re saying Rhaenyra’s throne is rightfully hers because it was Viserys’ wish, then by that logic, the Iron Throne truly belongs to Joffrey because that was Robert’s dying wish as well. We know the latter is a bastard, and the former has true born brothers and intends to put her bastard son Jace on the throne after her by hook, or by crook - very Cersei-like, this Rhaenyra.
Where are team black fans saying she’s perfect? I keep hearing people say this but as a member of team black I’ve never actually seen it. People assume because you’re team black you think Rhaenyra is perfect & that’s simply not true being a fan of someone doesn’t mean you think they perfect y’all gotta stop with the lies.
I’m team black because she was named the heir & the lords of the realm swore fealty to her. & the only reason people don’t want her as ruler is because she’s a woman. Also I think her & Jace would’ve been better rulers than Aegon the drunken sex offender. She grew from a selfish girl to a woman capable to ruling & ruling well as we saw at the council after she had Joffrey. & not wanting to immediately go to war & considering bending the knee to save the realm she actually cares about the realm.
I also like that she is a better mother than abusive self righteous Alicent but I do sympathize with team green for Heleana & the kids. Rhaenyra is nothing like Cersei cause she is the heir! She’s the royal blood Cersei never was & enjoyed torturing people & murdering them. Also bastards by men have been legitimized & they have dragon’s blood & are dragon riders. She didn’t care about the common people not thinking she should be heir cause she was young & they are sexist 🤦🏾♀️🤣 but as an adult she cared about the people & not going to war & made good suggestions at the council. I do agree she should’ve slept with someone with Laenor’s features. But she needed heirs & Laenor couldn’t perform & he claimed & loved those boys as did his father the seasnake. Vaemond was stupid because they were engaged to his nieces who do have Velaryon blood & thus keeping Driftmark in the family.
Assuming Rhaenyra hates Aegon is that an assumption she never says it or acts like it as an adult. Why would she care about Aemond’s eye when he called her kids bastards & attacked them. Her kid’s lives are in danger if people know the truth & she knows they constantly taunt them. It’s been a Targaryen tradition that the heir waits at Dragonstone until it’s time to be crowned. She was an exception cause Viserys let her sit on the council. So they didn’t just leave the greens in charge. I don’t see people seeing her as a symbol or a hero or saying that.
Drunken sex offender LOL so true 😂 so true
Look at every reaction n on social media then u will see how they view this idolize her. Where is the creator of this video spreading lies?
When u get a ruler like her who constantly breaks the rules don’t expect for people to follow her. N that’s a laugh that they only don’t want her because she is a women lol
Cersei n Rt r so similar.
1. both have 3 bastard kids
2. both named Joffrey
3. both sleep with Kingsguards
4. sleep with family members
5. both had people killed who spoke about their children being bastards, 6.both wanted to put bastards on the iron throne
7. started a civil war.
@@jjosifovic I watch them & no one idolizes her or says she’s perfect just because they are on her side. That’s a serious stretch of the imagination
1. Cersei isn’t of royal blood & the Targs have legal right to incest by the high septon & the faith. Robert was unaware of his kids true parentage & was tricked & betrayed whereas Laenor knew he couldn’t perform & legally accepts those boys & loves them & they have his last name so no it’s different.
Rhaenyra’s son had the name 1st & it was Laenor who named him. As long as they have dragons blood that’s all that matters & like Viserys said they are his trueborn grandsons & Cersei’s children had no royal blood.
@@tytybaby06 what the kings says is not law, every single king has to follow the rules and traditions of westeros, that why they have a master of laws. Obviously having dragon blood matters but they are bastards and they wouldn't inherit over aegon and aemond.
Laenor gave the kids his last name but they have no right to the driftmart throne same as cersei kids have no right to the iron throne. It doesnt matter what the intention or nature of relationship between the woman's husbands.were, the end result is still the same. They both try to pass their children as legitimate and they are not, rt are more legtimate than cersei, but they are still bastards.
U are giving me technicalities with the whole legal incest vs illegal incest. incest is incest, bastards are bastards. AGAIN When u get a ruler l who constantly breaks the rules don’t expect for people to follow that ruler.
@@jjosifovicI'm in groups, watch got/hotd videos etc and nah, nobody is saying she's perfect.
Love the greens🐉🐉💚
Goodness gracious, give her a break already, it's all the judgement and blame that start the whole thing, she doesn't want it in the first place.
If she doesn't want the throne, why does she gaslight everyone with a working pair of eyes about the legitimacy of her sons?
She is the ruler however she isn't much better than the high towers. She just so happens to be the person Viserys said should be the next ruler. The show tried to the blacks as the good guys somewhat even though they have multiple questionable scenarios. Like when Laenor faked his death at the expense of someone else. The only person person I'd say is an actual issue on team green is Aegon due to him watching children fight to the death as a form of entertainment (don't even get me started on the servant girl). I'd speak on what Aemond also does but if you didn't read the books it would be spoilery material.
Oh you expect rhynara to abide by westerosi rules but when it comes to oaths there too old? I’m sorry but there are no time limits when it comes to sworn oaths !!
Yeah there is a time limit for oaths the life of the one who swore it
Um Yes we expect the ruler of the kingdom to follow the rules n when a ruler like her doesn’t follow them don’t expect people to follow her
@@diogenes7663hasn’t it only been like 20 years tho, not a hundred. It’s not like these peoples great great grandpas swore the oath. It was their dads, mothers, brothers. You’d think they’d be more keen on wanting to follow the house oath of a very recent family member. Also let’s not forget Otto jailing and killing people for not swearing to Aegon. How is an oath while under duress any better?
Man I love this GoT world. Sht is just nuts there.
@@HeatherHoltyeah not much time had passed but the way I consider it is if your dad swore to do something or uphold something you personally don’t agree with you are under no obligation to uphold that oath. But yeah Westeros is fucked and I’m not advocating for oath breaking but I mean oaths in a feudal society are usually under duress like could realistically anyone say no to swearing an oath to the king Westeros is really messed up by our modern interpretation and I think we as fans discount that a lot cause it’s fantasy
Rhaenyra needs to abide by the rules of the country she wishes to rule. Simple as that. She didn’t while being assumptive about their support like they’re all gonna look the other way like her father, and it lost her many allies
While I will admit Rhaenyra’s not perfect and neither is her family, she should have been Queen regnant after her father but due to the poison that was ineffectively gotten rid of(Otto Hightower) everything went completely wrong and I have issues with everyone on the greens except helaena because of the poison that infected the Targaryen family
I think you're overcorrecting. Hard. (The anger in your voice!) I agree that everyone is fucked up and at fault, and no one is concerned about the well-being of the regular people. And a lot of the audience is too invested in their teams. But this is a story about women trying to seize power within a heavily patriarchical society, and for that reason both Rhaenyra and Alicent function as revolutionaries to a degree. And as it's a feudaluatic society, neither giving much concern to lower born people, they are as careless and self-interested as classic rulers. They're meant to be complex and contradictory.
It's kind of flippant to say that Rhaenyra could have better navigated the patriarchy. She was to be the first woman to inherit the throne. There were no real guides or role models. It was difficult for Alicent to do too, and she more closely followed tradition. The whole point is that navigating the patriarchy was (is) dangerous. I think all female ASOIAF characters function in this way. People see Rhaenyra as heroic because she's going against the grain without murdering everyone in sight
To me Rhaenyra is the "greyest" character so far. I commented on another of your videos that she didn't have complete disregard for Criston but was selfish and naive in understanding his position. She chose him as her protector and held him in as high regard as she could. She respected her own pleasure and didn't consider the person she shared it with as nothing. Unfortunately, she had Daemon and Viserys as her teachers about sex and responsibility, and neither of them were able to show her how to balance them. Her agreements with Leanor and Harwin were a disaster, but they were honest with each other. I believe she thought the arrangement she wanted with Criston was based on the same kind of honest dishonesty, but it wasn't something he could afford. She made a lot of assumptions about what people should allow her to do.
I want to give her a pass for showing genuine love for her children, but bringing them into the world for her own ambitions was a horrible decision. She could have moon tea-ed them away and made Aegon her heir, strengthening the entire family.
Ooh my god the number of excuses u have made so far for her is the reason why that society is better off with in men's hand they are not here trying to make their bastards heirs when they do wrong things they accept the consequences....but with her you blaming everyone but her for her own actions 'oh she didn't know any better, she didn't have anyone to teach her , she didn't mean it that way" she is a princess to be queen her more than anyone has all the information and help she can get in her hands but she chooses not to listen to anyone! I mean the woman literally said she wants a world with no consequences how is that going to work out?
It is just weird for me that she gets away with a lot of something's that even a male heir would have a hard time doing yet here we are treating her like a 7 year old child she doesn't give a sh*t about anyone but her and her kids just like cerssy
That's why in the books when she is queen the kingdom falls people kill some of the dragons she is not fit to be a queen patriarch or not what kind of a ruler thinks the world should have no consequences?
Which is something we seeing in this world where in the name of destroying the "patriarch" you just think by putting a woman in power things will magically be rainbows and sunshine and get the shock that not only are these women doing the same thing as the men but some of them are worse ! It's not the private parts that makes you a good person but it's ur character and morals which ur queen doesn't have
@@just_by_luck I think Team Green people are so emotional in their support because Alicent is such a retrograde character, and there's not much that she does that's defensible. Most of them are so gung ho that they can't even decipher a balanced criticism of Rhaenyra even when it explicitly calls her selfish and unconcerned with common people. And that she waa irresponsible and should have terminated her pregnancies if she couldn't produce legitimate heirs rather than endangering everyone by trying to secure her claim with children. Apparently "they're all fucked up and at fault" is what making excuses for someone looks like through green tinted lenses.
@@ajae... ratioed on your own comment, tough to do..
@@higharchbishopofteatasting6217 I don't know what this means.
@@just_by_luck I think, looking at men's comments in here, that the world could do with fewer of them, and more women in power. :') Men are way too emotional and explode in aggression so easily. You don't own my body, or another woman's, and fuck off with those kinds of assumptions.
I agree with the things you say ven though I'm team black, rhaenyra is a very poor decision maker, she is entitled, and gets no consequences but the reason she gets no consequences is because of her father viserys. As a team black person I also know that even if rhaenyra had no bastards the greens were going to put aegon on the throne, Otto was against rhaenyra once his grandson had his 2nd name day, and aliment turned om her because she didn't tell aliment she lost her virginity but maybe part of the reason rhaenyra lied to her was because she felt like aliment would tell it and then criston Cole would be dead. I get why vaemond was mad too but he could've at least not tried to step over his nieces as possible heirs to driftmark and he needed to get angry at coryls because he's the one who was okay with him being heir even though that's dangerous to want that because the other velaryons know he isn't laenors child. Both Coryls and rhaenyra were dumb ah for thinking lucerys should be heir, if rhaenyra wanted lucerys as heir she could've done like you said and had her bastards by laenors cousins because at least lucerys would have velaryon blood
I think it should be noted that Rhaneyra never actually had a chance to make any changes in Kingdom, even if she wanted - during Dance Rhaneyra supported male primogeniture, but she was in desperate need of allies and such radical changes like new succesision laws ought to be make carefully. Myabe if her reign was peacfull she would actually have an opportunity to "create a new order".
She was up against many, many challenges.... but never took them seriously. She basically fucked up royally for any women to come.
@@Simon-A.-Tan I have no idea what are you talking about. Rhaenyra took all challenges seriously. Maybe it is you who can't take seriously fact she was human, not almighty seer, so she couldn't know exact iutcome of her actions.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Ok, this must be the most insane comment on the internet.
Just a couple examples of how she DIDN'T take things seriously:
1. She needed to win the acceptance of all the Lords in Westeros, but proceeded by insulting and demeaning those same Lords during her tour in search for a husband.
Worst of all there is how she humiliated the host, Bormund Baratheon, which came to bite her in the ass at the end of the season, when she had to ask the latter's son for help. Be sure he remembered that....
Also, the Baratheons were slighted just as much as the Velaryons after the dismissal of princess Rhaenys by the Great Council in 101ac, yet Viserys never bothered putting any effort into reconciling with them. Otto definetly added to this situation, as we could see during the tournament in episode 1, when he tried to further instigate the king against a Baratheon rider who called his cousin Rhaenys "the queen who never was". You can bet that Otto was playing "divide and conquer" right there. And no matter how much you hate it, it makes him infinetly more competent in the Game then Rhaenyra....
So during her tour she had a golden opportunity to gain Bormund's loyalty and affections, yet instead she disgraced him further by running off unexpectedly, this after insulting half of his guests.
And yes, she would have realized this if she had paid any attention to court politics, but apparently all of that didn't matter enough to her in order to make sacrifices and put in work and effort.
2. She had obvious illegitimate children.
Almost every Lord in Westeros has bastard relatives. The idea of such visible bastards as the Strong boys one day inheriting the Iron Throne absolutely made some of them already nervous.... and it would have made even more of them come to shudder had Jace become the official heir once Viserys had passed.... because then he would have ended up more visible to the eye of his vassals and subjects in general, instead of being hidden on Dragonstone or at the Red Keep.
Why were those Lords were getting nervous? Well, because Jace's ascension could inspire those bastard relatives into rebellion. It would legitimize their claims as well as his....
Even if it wouldn't automatically end up like that in most cases, then still there would definetly be some mysterious "disappearences" of bastard cousins etc. at some places in the realm, just "to be sure".... which would give a lot of bastard sons (and daughters now too?) an incentive to rise up, if just out of (preventive) self defense.
To put it shortly: Jace and his brothers would unwillingly, but inevitably, launch several hundreds of small scaled civil wars, with a bit of a genocidal component to them, just by their mere existence.
In order to avoid that outcome, most Lords would try to either kill the boys asap or prevent their mother from seizing the Throne.
They can keep saying that the boys aren't bastards, but.... PEOPLE HAVE EYES.
If Rhaenyra and Laenor couldn't conceive, then she should have fucked another Velaryon in order to create a physical resemblance for her children, so she could at least mask their identity.
Or she shouldn't have had any children at all. She wouldn't have an heir, but that wouldn't have weakened her claim as much as the presence of Jace, Luke and Joffrey did.
3. She failed at making alliances.
When things got to hard at the Red Keep, Rhaenyra fled to Dragonstone and isolated herself for years. Not only did she completely abandon King's Landing in favor of the Greens, she also never seemed to have bothered mending her (broken) connections with important houses like the Lannisters, the Tyrells, the Baratheons, the Tullies etc.
While she was sitting on her ass on Dragonstone, Otto was forging those alliances. This doesn't require brilliance, just a basic understanding of the fact that if you are going to rule people, you have to start getting to know them at some point.... becoming visible to them.... Even the weak king Aenys understood this.
The only thing she has left, is the vows of a generation of Lords who have, for the most part, already passed away. Also, words are wind....
4. She fake-killed Laenor.
This should have meant the end to her relationship with the Velaryons, but Viserys' last minute rescue in episode 8 made Rhaenys switch sides on the final moment as well.
However, the Velaryons are a large family.... and you could already bet from early on that Vaemond wasn't gonna be the last one who wouldn't really take a liking to Corlys' apparent forgiveness.... let alone to his choice of heir....
5. She married Daemon.
The Vale should have been on lock for Rhaenyra, given the fact that it is currently ruled by a woman: lady Jeyne Arryn.... a bloodrelative of hers even....
However, Daemon is rightfully despised in the Vale after the murder of his wife Rhea Royce. Lady Jeyne basically told him to fuck off when he put forward a claim for Runestone afterwards, although the show didn't show that.
If Rhaenyra receives less then unconditional support from the Vale, then she has her choice of husband to thank for that.
Also, Daemon is a controversial figure whose presence alone would make the more cautious nobles in the realm question their allegiance to Rhaenyra.
Overall, Rhaenyra is a spoiled little princess.... a daddy's girl who never put in any effort to do anything, but expected everything to work out for her nonetheless.
She wanted to have her cake and eat it too. She wanted a careless life, but also wanted to get to be Westeros' undisputed dictator when she grew up. You can't have a careless and fun little life if those are your ambitions....
@@Simon-A.-Tan 1. She was girl. None has to be perfect whole time.
2. Her claim isn't at all weakened. None cares about paternity of her children and in books most kingdoms supported Rhaenyra, when Jace and Joff were heirs apparents. The only ones who care is Alicent and Vaemond. Do you seriously think that if Rhaneyra had only legitimate children, that would change anything??? O sweet summer child - Alicent and Otto would be still plotting against her. Plotting against Rhaneyra strate dlonge before she had any child. No, she couldn't have "no children" - if she wanted to ascend, she had to have a child to strenght her postition. And she couldn't simply go to other Velaryon - it had to be someone she can TRUST.
3. She couldn't predict people will betray their oath. And she didn't "isolated herself". That is nonsense and blatant lie - she went to Dragonstone which WAS a seat of heir to the throne. She wasn't first nor last heir who resided on Draginstone.
4. Again - blatant nonsens. Rheenys might speculate about who was responsible about Laenor's end, but ultimately Rhaneyra had her granddaughetrs in her care. Baela and Rhaena fully supported their step-mother. And Rhaneys had to support her daughter-in-law, if she wanted mainntain bond with her granddaughters.
5. I don't like Daemon and I don't know what she sees in him as a woman. But he is great warrior and she knows she needed someone lie that on her side. Politically marriage is excellent choice.
You completely misunerstood the character and only thing you can do is being misogynist about it. Rhaneyra wasn't spoiled at all. Criston propsed they run off, but she rejected this, because she tretaed her position seriously - she wanted to stay and take care of her kingdom. she also knew she has to produce heirs andshe do what she had to. If she cared only about pleasure she would flew away as soon as Aegon was born and never came back.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518
1. She does. She has the obligation. It's not even about being 'perfect', but about not being the worst. If she wants to act like a teenage girl, then abdicate the Throne. Done. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
2. Off course Otto would still have tried to get his grandson on the Throne. Plotting and scheming are politics. If you don't want to play that game, then abdicate. Same for nitwit Viserys who caused this mess in the first place.
You have to make the right moves. She never paid any attention to this however.
Yes, it would have made quite the difference. The bastards were always going to be the breaking point. If you want to refer the "history" of the book, then remember what ser Criston Cole said when he crowned Aegon.... what his main argument was to convince him and incite others.... Do you think that he just said that for himself and Aegon? Or that he was putting a more generally existing sense of anxiety into words?
Also, she didn't have "most kingdoms". She had the North due to the loyalty of the Starks, struggled with the Vale more then she normally should have given her personal family bond with them, as wel as some houses in the Riverlands and the Reach, who came in the fold largely due to their tendency to rival their neighbours (Brackens vs Blackwoods par example) and/or the Hightowers in the Reach. That's hardly an impressive alliance for somebody who had had decades to prepare for her takeover and had enjoyed all the cooperation of the king up until then.
3. "She couldn't predict people breaking their oath...." - Yeah, she was just as smart as good ole Ned Stark there. Also, a lot of them didn't break their oaths: they never even spoke them themselves.
And she DID isolate herself. Both book and show clearly imply this. Why do you think that she couldn't predict Lord Borros' attitude towards Luke? Because she hadn't seen him in forever.... Same with her confidence in the unconditional support of Lady Jeyne. She also seems to never have tried mending the broken bonds with House Lannister, the richest in the realm, even though Tylland was literally living in the Red Keep. That or she was never succesfull at it.... which shouldn't be surprising given her lack of diplomacy.
Having your seat on Dragonstone doesn't mean that you should stay there all the time. DEFINETLY NOT when you know that your claim is always going to be disputed due to your gender. You have to make even MORE moves then.
4. "And Rhaneys had to support her daughter-in-law, if she wanted mainntain bond with her granddaughters."
Even if so, then do you seriously think that Rhaenys has the final say in the business of House Velaryon? She isn't even a Velaryon!!!!
Seriously, the Laenor-killing was the dumbest and most self-centered shit ever pulled off.
Also, Rhaenys made it pretty clear in the show that she was going to go along with the Hightowers and that Rhaenyra's offer was a pretty desperate one in her opinion. Had Viserys not shown up during that session, then Rhaenys would most probably have ended up with the Greens. And Corlys would likely have been glad to follow her to that side, given his misgivings about Rhaenyra, as revealed in the show. He wouldn't have even needed to disinherit "Laenor's children" if Rhaenyra would have been kept away from the Throne. There would not have been an immediate reason for that.... In the contrary, her removal from the line of succession would have made Jace, Luke and Joff less controversial outside of the Velaryon family itself.
5. Why would she need a warrior by her side? Seriously.... For a partner, she would have been better off with somebody who has more then two braincells, rather then a hyperimpulsive failson who only knows "Smash" as a response to anything.
Warriors are needed on the battlefield. Not as some sort of advisor....
Also, I've already explained why it wasn't a good political match. You claim that it was, but offer no arguments.
"You're a MISOGYNIST !!!!" Aaaaaaaaaaah.... the forever response from hysterical Rhaenyra-stans.... It shows why you're being so delusional about her character: you take her for some sort of "feminist ally" of yours, even though she's only focused on her own claims and those of her children. Baela also had a claim to Driftmark, but Rhaenyra sided with Luke, who had zero Velaryon blood.... So don't act is if she's some "feminist warrior" and stop projecting your contemporary politics onto a medieval society with different norms and structures. People who can't function within those norms and structures are simply lost causes who will never wield the influence necessary to obtain and maintain power.
She isn't spoiled?
You're quite literally one of the 0.01% of people who seem to think that.
As I've already mentioned: she NEVER puts in the effort. The only concession she ever makes is agreeing to produce children. And even that one she fucks up royally with the Strong boys because she wants to do it with somebody who doesn't look at all like her husband or her....
That she refuses to concede her position as heir???? THAT makes her NOT spoiled???? I know that you folks like to stretch your reasoning, but.... that's a whole different level....
She even literally says at the end "I thought I wanted it...."
She thought she WANTED it. It wasn't some sort of selfless idealism that made her give up on her privileges.... In fact, that was my point: she NEVER gives up on those. She wants to have her cake and eat it too.... non-stop....
You are clearly the one who doesn't understand her character.... because you keep viewing her through the lens that most modern day children's films about fictional medieval times put on their viewers: sassy girlboss good protagonist, old-fashioned people bad....
This is not such a children's film however. It's supposed to be a GRRM-story. Although I do get the impression that there's a lot of whitewashing in order to appease the lowest common denominator: people like you....
Lol damn you hatin. I don’t think George ever writes characters who do “no wrong.” That’s boring. She has her issues but Alicent has as many if not more issues, seeing as how she turns into her dad who forced her into a horrible situation and then told her to be happy about it. She did the same with her son.
Rhynera also does her best to not go straight into war and bloodshed which is impressive in a world where dragons mean power. I like her character, I like her conniving ability while also having empathy and understanding how things work once she’s an adult.
Alicent making her bring the baby right after birth was so messed up. And it seems she only had kids with Strong, she wasn’t sleeping with everyone as far as we know, she was in a marriage with a gay guy and she did try to have kids w him so are we supposed to say she can’t have any romance with anyone ever just bc she was made to marry a man she didn’t love?
Idk man… I think Rhynera has much more reasoning to go dark side than Alicent but they’re both tragic characters. Which makes them so interesting!!
Also Rhynera is a much better and loving mom than Alicent, plus Rhynera can’t ever admit her kids are bastards, what would be the fallout. Scary stuff for their lives, their future.
Also corlys’s brother died bc of his own actions, not Rhynera. Corlys wanted jayce to have the land, his brother didn’t get to decide and he was trying to scheme so it’s not her fault imo.
And when does she ever mention she hates Aegon. You’re just assuming.
I think you are being ignorant here, just as the creator said Firstly her father chose her to rule after him which no man ever did in asoiaf and f&b to their daughters. Instead of setting an example towards herself and people around her she misused her power for wrong choices especially she is a woman so her actions are more judged than a man's.
Rhaenyra may never wanted a war doesn't mean she won't face it even if greens doesn't crown themselves. As the creator said having the dragon and being a royal doesn't mean you have people's respect they can put you down or even kill you if they can like rhaegar, aerys, maegor etc. If rhaenyra had any empathy alicent and her half siblings would have followed her(in show). But no, she is just like her father being ignorant.
As for alicent you are lying about making rhaenyra bring her baby with her. Go rewatch the scene alicent only asked joffrey being showed up to her not rhaenyra. Rhaenyra could have choose anyone looking like her or laenor to have babies with which again says that you haven't watched the video. Rhaenyra being at dark side is much based on her poor choices than alicent does . But ofcourse the society is misogynistic, which is why cersei says "in game of thrones you win or you die".
Rhaenyra did the same thing to her son lol. Lucerys expressed multiple times that he did not want to be heir to Driftmark and Rhaenyra “it’s your duty” him all the way to his and Vaemond’s grave. You say Rhaenyra could not admit her sons were bastards, but Viserys would not have allowed his favorite child and her children to be executed or heavily punished regardless. Her bastards were going to cause a war once they assumed their inheritance anyway because their parentage is an open secret. And comparing Rhaenyra to Alicent to make one seem “less bad” is a fool’s errand: most of it will be subjective, and they both did things that they should be stripped of their titles for
1. Both Rhaenyra and Alicent hesitate at the end. So it's kinda telling that you acknowledge this for one and not for the other.
2. Rhaenyra also tells her sons to ignore and suppress their traumas about their bastardry, causing them to not process those and lash out irrationally at several occasions when it's brought up. Kinda funny how you ignore that one too.
3. When is she ever conniving in a smart way? When is she ever empathetic? When does she figure things out? She's fumbling from episode 1 until 10....
4. "Alicent making her bring the baby right after birth was so messed up." Actually, if the father ordered this, it wouldn't be uncommon. She never ordered Rhaenyra to come along. It was all about inspecting the baby's appearance. This is a paranoia clearly induced by Rhaenyra repeatedly having illegitimate children and everybody else seemingly ignoring it.
After a decade, you might hit a breaking point....
5. That she was faithfull to Harwin doesn't matter. By having his children, she birthed kids who would always be sentenced to death by rebellion. The Westerosi Lords would never allow an obvious bastard to inherit, if only already for preventing their own bastard relatives from feeling empowered. A person "who has figured out how things work" knows this.
6. She doesn't have to admit they are bastards. Everybody sees it. By not acknowledging it she also denies them the opportunity to be officially legitimized. But hey, she "knows how things work"....
7. "Corlys wanted Jayce to have the land...." First of all, no: it was Luke. Second of all: what Corlys wanted, does not matter. The Velaryons are a large family and most of them would and will never fully accept Luke or Joffrey. Vaemond had made all the right moves until Viserys unexpectedly showed up. After that, he was denied, and Daemon and Rhaenyra would have killed him off anyway. So he went downs screaming his cause out loud to several witnesses. Witnesses who will no doubt talk to other Velaryons.
It was actually a pretty big Boss Move by him.
8. Everybody hates Aegon. Even Alicent doesn't seem to love her son, so it's a reasonable assumption. Certainly with Rhaenyra literally calling for Aemond to be tortured.
Her calling baby Aegon "Alicent Hightower's son" and ignoring him in every single scene afterwards, is as much of an indicator as the show's pacing allows.
I'm team black but this was a ln awesome analysis
What care you for dislikes, sir? UA-cam doesn't allow them to be publicly viewed.
Rhaenrya admitted herself that she is not perfect in the final episode of season 1 when Lucerys told her that he wasn't perfect and she replied "Nor am I." She made many mistake chief amongst them was having children with someone who looks nothing like her first husband.
No, her main mistake was marrying that deadbeat uncle of hers.
I’mma be honest I do NOT like Rhaenyra 🤷🏽♂️
I'm sure you prefer the rapist brother amirite. More your type.
Awesome vid bro
0:57 i’m team grey (aka Stark)
The other thing rhaenyra could've done with her bastards is unamused them as her heirs once she had kids by daemon
That would make things worse
I need Strong videos!
I wonder if the bedding ceremony was in part initiated from shit like this. 😂
I agree she made dumb decision after dumb decision she really got on my nerves
6th hidden video?
I messed something up when I uploaded my Viserys video. When I uploaded it I added it to the playlist then removed it immediately after so I could fix it. That’s why the playlist says a video is hidden.
I just made a video of Rt like 1 hour ago lol n another fair and open minded viewpoint as to who Rt is.
I’m more team green than black mostly because I find the fan base of team black more or less emotional n illogical n r way to blinded by the faults of Rt n DT.
I'm sure you'll cheer when Sunfyre eats her amirite? :) :)
Dude you gotta chill, they released one season that put Rhaenrya in a VERY good light. Just chill tf out with the hostility, most people probably haven’t read the book buddy
The misogyny radiates off this guy, regardless of book or show.
@@blissinchains the fuck?
I would rather have a caring and kind bastard for a future ruler(Jace, Luke, Joffrey) than a rapist (Aegon) 🤷♀️ despite her flaws Rhaenyra raised her sons better than Alicent. It’s a miracle Helaena turned out as sweet as she is
I LOVE the irony of Rhaenyra becoming a better mother than Alicient given their views when they were younger.
Rapist or not he is the legitimate heir not the Strong boys
Doesn't matter. You are not representative of the realm. If you want to govern, they are whom you need to appease, not some tv viewer.
Also, how would you characterize Daemon then if you dislike Aegon so much?
@@joao.fenix1473 I never said Aegon is not “legitimate” I said Jace would be a better ruler and I said legitimate in quotes because Rhaenyra was the one named heir not Aegon II
@@Simon-A.-Tan appease what realm? is not real IT IS a tv show I’m not saying they have to please me but I can give my opinion about it
See cristin was the adult in the situation. He should have not slept with her, she was a child and could not give consent to sex, and she was under the influence. The adult should have said “rhaenyra I vowed to protect you, not sleep with you” Cole failed and seeing y’all defend the greens is INSANE
She was 18 years old, and had command over him.
Rhaenyra is the Crown Princess, Cole is a mere knight from a common family. Could Cole even say no to the very person who raised him up to be a Kingsguard? She outranks him and in a medieval feudal society, you forget that Rhaenyra is already considered an adult by the society she lives in, ready to be wed and have heirs of her own. Viewing an archaic medieval setting under a modern 21st century lens could not be applicable because the roles and mores of society are so vastly different.
60 < iq comment here😂😂
18:16 u don't know that. Lol Alicent is worse coz she pretends Rhaenyra is doing something bad for caring for her children and passing them off as legitimate when Alicent lets her son Aegon get away with things far worse. Like the rape for example. Aegon also has bastards outside of marriage. He cheats regularly. Gambles in child fighting rings where some of his kids are prolly there fighting. He isn't even present for his legitimate children even, he's just busy being a drunkard. Yet Alicent thinks that's ok and Aegon deserves the seat to the iron throne. Alicent made it about one's character, not Rhaenyra.
Alicent lets Aegon get away....?
She chastises him through and through. Even says that he's no son of hers and refuses to answer that she loves him.
Alicent is a horrible mother, but for the exact opposite reasons as you try to depict. She and Viserys broke that kid with their demanding and demeaning attitudes into becoming a complete failure and scumbag....
Aegon is put on the throne as the only alternative to the chaos of Rhaenyra and Daemon. Otto is clearly meant to rule in practice. It's not about "deserving the throne by being likable", it's about how to most efficiently maintain order and their own safety.
9:40 eh.. Rhaenyra did land him the position he got. Let's not forget that.
20:09 people do support her😂
20:34 power is earned, not given? Have the same energy the next time Alicent pulls this shit.
21:13 nope. Alicent changed her mind the second she saw Rhaenyra cleverly exercised her freedom as heir. She personally didn't like that Rhaenyra had more autonomy over whom she gets with. While she had to go through sacrifice after sacrifice like a good daughter and wife. She feels entitled to control Rhaenyra and when she didn't get her way, she felt slighted coz she thought she only ever wanted to do what was best for her friend. Forgetting her place and her betrayal. Not to mention, Otto had different plans to begin with.
- She got him in that position. That's the main problem. When you hire somebody, you don't try to fuck them. Definetly not when saying either "yes" or "no" could get them killed. Her failure to see that shows her lack of understanding of her subjects and how things are. Also Viserys' fault....
- No, they don't. Tv viewers do, not people in Westeros. That's the point he's making. She never tried to change that.
- Actually, Alicent seems to understand this more. As does Rhaenys. Rhaenyra just wants to do what she wants to without the obligations. She wants to rule but refuses to learn the Game of Thrones.
- Alicent changed her mind when she realized that she had no understanding of who Rhaenyra was. She had lied to her while swearing on her mother, she had gone against her most fundamental obligations in this system while still claiming virtue with an oscar worthy drama performance, she had willingly put Criston Cole's life on the line by starting an affair with him just for funzies.... To Alicent this means that perhaps Rhaenyra would indeed end up killing her children, just like Otto had told her just before. It's a realization that a lot of viewers appear to miss: Alicent comes to the conclusion that she had always defended Rhaenyra, but that the princess she thought to know might not even be her real self....
Als, Rhaenera didn't have those freedoms as an heir and it was absolutely not clever of her to do as she did. Otherwise she wouldn't have had to lie for it.
THIS IS GREENS PROPAGANDA BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Watching this and the Alicent video... The videos are too biased, nothing good about Rhaenyra and nothing bad about Alicent, even excusing any of Alicent's bad actions as a poor little kid with too much pressure on her (i.e. the exact same thing that happened to Rhaenyea). Not to mention the r*apist Aegon being painted in a more positive light than Rhaenyra...
Rhaenyra is not a victim. Plain and simple. She's guilty of everything the Greens accuse her of. Aegon may be a rapist, but at least he knows he'd make a lousy king.
The Inc€l based opinion really leaked out of this vid.
Yeah, lots of women-hating men here who will never get laid.
ROFLMFAO This dude is spitting straight facts.
Had Rhaenyra played at least some of her cards right or given a shit about earning her power as well, you would probably get another video. Would viewers not be such sheep to root for her and Daemon unconditionally while they're basically shown to be very shitty people, you would have gotten another video.
This kind of video puts the apologists in their place. This mindset of "anyone disliking a waman is sexist"-mentality is just as fucked up as incels are.
0:37 uh oh, here we go. Who said that?!?!