Here’s the thing, Viserys kind of set Rhaenyra up to fail. He made her heir but didn’t teach her how to rule (mostly because he didn’t truly understand how to rule), then he had true-born sons. Automatically, this would cause problems, problems which Viserys willfully didn’t see or thought he was above of. He cuddled Rhaenyra and taught her that she was also above rules and norms (which of course can be broken but most of the time they have to be subtly done as compared to the more outright way of Rhaenyra) (which also on its own is not a bad quality, but considering the society can cause problems for not only Rhaenyra herself, but the people around her as well). Rhaenyra’s learned from Viserys, who was lucky enough to reign during a peaceful time, but as we see, that kind of rule ultimately leads to war by inaction. Rhaenyra’s inaction is another contributor to the war, and it had deadly consequences for herself and her people.
Vicerys married her to a gay man. Yeah, that wouldn’t cause any problems. And corlys knew his son was gay and he probably should have said something. Did he?no.
Didn’t she not get the memo the vicerys died? No. And did sh not halt actions of war to keep the peace? Yes. Did she not go to war until after her son was killed by Aemond?
@@lemonadelemon1960Rhaenyra could have told Vicerys herself but she knew she couldn't control her lustful activities and made a deal you remember the duck and goose dialogue between Rhaenyra and laenor
@@abdulwahab558 At least she was honest. Something the world nowerdays lack and wonder why it goes to hell. Or even worse, not wonder that it goes to hell. People are following blindly literally every mainstream and wonder, when other people either say "no" or won't follow the mainstream. And what do those then do? They judge. Hiding behind prophets and saints and gods. As you mention this: Viserys should have married Laena. Instead, he caused a problem and left it to his daugher to solve it. And then you mock about, that Rhaenyra only took on the task and solved the problem. Your comment only proves, that this world still prefers male over female. Females could literally know the solutions to a bunch of problems of the world; and yet, men nowerdays would still want themselves above all. Even if they don't know how to solve the problems.
I agree on this, that Viserys set her up to failure. She doubted her way when she asked him, if he believed the song of Ice and Fire. She held on to him and this path because of the promise she made to him. Rhaenys was quite about right, when she told Rhaenyra, that when her father gets remarried and has sons, she will be replaced. She was the living proof, by not being named Queen, as she should have been. Basically a pretty redicoulous system. Women give birth to children, male and female, risk their lives, only that men can destroy what women began: life.
I like Rhanerya but she was terrible at politics and wasn't nearly as smart as a monarch should be. Honestly, Jace, even as a teenager, would have made better decisions as a ruler.
Why I don't like Rhaenyra's faction boils down to one thing: they are the most extreme representation of Targaryen exceptionism. They feel entitled to do what they want and feel that they do not have to face the repercussions. We know this from the brothel scene with Daemon where he was encouraging Rhaenyra to do whatever she wants, to fuck whomever she wants. They miss the part where they live in a society held together by rules, both codified and unspoken, and if they want to change that, they can't just expect the world to lay down for them. No one wants to have a ruler that can't be held accountable for their mess and that's what Rhaenyra and her faction represents.
but a men can do it... we saw that many men had bastards. I dom't think this is a reason to hate her at least not just her, be fair and hate everyone who those this.
the problem with your premise is that the greatest ruler of the seven kingdoms invented targaryen exceptionalism to justify in*cest. the conciliator basically said, we are targaryens and we do as we please like marry our own close kin. he opposed the faith of the seven head on by creating essentially his own rules which the faith has to capitulate to. yes, the targaryens definitely expected the world to lay down for them, and westeros actually liked this king who refused to be held accountable for his and his family's marriage practice that is an abomination to the "lesser" westerosi.
@@maggyfrogyeah but that law is only to allow targ incest marriages. It does not give Targ Princesses leave to act however they please. If that's true then Jaehaerys would have no problem with Saera's actions. But he didn't, and exiled Saera from Westeros. And Rhaenyra is doing the same thing as Saera did, but 10x worse cuz she's the damn heir to the throne. And if Targs are allowed to so whatever they want with no consequence, then by default Rhaenyra would've faced no challenge. But she did. Vaemond challenged her for Driftmark and the people stormed the Dragonpit because she thought she could do whatever she wanted because she was Queen, regardless of how much the smallfolk were suffering. So no, the Targaryens can't do willy nilly, or else even Aerys II would continue to rule unchallenged despite being more deranged than Maegor.
@@hmm_1228 my point is that, so long as the targs had dragons and with the right talent in diplomatic scheming, westeros would have allowed them to get away with being exempted from a lot of rules. jaehaerys disowning his own daughter has nothing to do with pleasing the realm as far as optics. he did it because honestly he was a bad father. most other lords also deal with problematic children but they usually try to fix their issues within their house. for example, hoster tully dealt with lysa's rebellious teen years. viserys also dealt with rhaenyra the best he could. if rickard stark ever thought of the possibility that lyanna went willingly with rhaegar, he most definitely still tried to fix it without throwing lyanna under the bus and even died for her honor. doran martell deals with arianne's excursions without shaming her in front of the realm. my point is that jaehaerys never even tried to express a drop of empathy for saera. if ned stark can find it in him to indulge arya not wanting to be a lady but a fighter, jaehaerys the concilliator should have made an effort to actually care about his kids as well.
@@maggyfrog I think that's mostly the issue with having too many kids in general. But unfortunately Saera's scandal was a public one and couldn't be buried under the rug anymore so Jaehaerys had to respond publicly not only to appease his own anger but everyone else's sensibilities. As for Arianne, that's Doran's heir, he has to deal with her excursions in private to protect the prestige of House Martell. Rickard died for Lyannas honour without the knowledge though, if he and Brandon knew I think he would handle the situation differently and speak to Robert about it before going to the Mad King. Saera is not Jaehaerys' heir and sadly he could afford to lose her since he's got other kids at the time. Viserys is just a blind bat when it comes to Rhaenyra. Heirs have been disinherited for less and she did many questionable things even before the Strong children. So idk how Viserys is doing the best he could honestly. He just buries his head in the sand and hopes the problem goes away or solves itself, which is what he does a lot of the time.
@@STARK0181 Criticizing one side does not serve as a compliment to the other. That being said, Aegon does show signs of caring for the people as they are the first he's ever shown love from, he just doesn't know how to express it and in times of peace he could become a decent king (with a lot of work). Establishing this was the whole point of the guy wanting his sheep back. Aemond, too, seems a strong candidate for becoming a good king who'd lead his people well in times of peace, albeit a little unhinged. He's well studied, understand politics and could provide a solid role model. Then again, he has the marking of Daemon which could result in tyranny, but that's neither here nor there really. Sure, both of them are still selfish in their own rights, but they display better marks of competence than Rhaenyra "I'm the heir, hur dur" ever did. The dance was started by Rhaenyra. If she had even a shred of empathy for the people she wouldn't have started it since a lot of civilians died for her selfishness. Innocents dead because "I wanna sit on the throne, I deserve it!"
@@shadedusk7831 alright so a rapist man who has bastard children fighting each other in the pits cares more about the smallfolk than rhaenyra? yeah fucking right. just admit you're sexist and move on. the maesters are also biased against book rhaenyra most of the stuff she did that was bad was likely fabricated to look bad on purpose. the dance was also NOT started by rhaenyra. It was started by alicent and otto, have we been watching the same show?? her throne was literally usurped mate. how do we know it was usurped? well thats easy. the greens locked down the castle and have been scheming for months behind everyones backs, that doesnt sound like they thought they were in the right at all, they knew they were usurping and they did it anyway.
Rhaenys? House Velaryon had more dragons than house Targaryen and still never attempted to go to war with the crown. They weren’t intimidated by the thought of war (the Step Stones and Rooks rest) yet they respected their distant family members and put the state of the realm above their desire for power. Rhaenys demonstrated political understanding yet would be willing to lay her life on the line for duty. She was a powerhouse of a women. Better than most kings.
@@joshuaadams6565But this is still Westeros and the worst part is that it was before Daenerys is born. They would never accept her in the throne, even with Corly Velaryon on her side
I won't fault her for having bastards, every ruler did. I will fault her for lying about the fact that they are bastards and making everyone else part of that lie (there are 5 fingers, not four type of situation). She also sought to place one of her bastards as heir to seastone. Her final sin is Treason, by lying to her father she also lied to the king, the king who had given her leave to choose a husband, which she failed to do, only to carry on an affair with a man she had initially turned down. She abandoned the path of honesty, she could have lagitimized her Bastards and made them heirs but she didn't, she could have chosen strong at the get go but she didn't, everything was about cheap thrills and everyone else paid the price.
@@stephenjames2159King Viserys 100% knew that the boys were not velaryons in the show but he saw them as the children of his daughter and her husband. He saw no issue in their illegitimacy because they had Targaryen blood in them which was what mattered to them.
Please note also that in the show, Viserys REPEATEDLY pointed out his vivid dreams of having a son named Aegon to ascend him, wearing the conqueror’s crown. Him naming Rhaenyra as heir opposed that dream in many ways and proved his weakness even he cannot trust his so called “dragon dreams”.
Signs of the Targaryen madness. Just with all the esoteric BS about witches, Alys Rivers dished Daemon a poisoned drink, needs no magic for that at all.
@@a.m.pietroschek1972 This is a world with active functioning magic and dragons. We see people warging and greenseeing well after dragons have died and magic supposedly with them and you call it esoteric BS. There's evidence for it in the main story my guy, ASOIAF is a 'realistic' fantasy, but fantasy nonetheless.
That was Aegon the conqueror's prophecy about the long winter and that from his blood will come the one who will unite the realm to protect it from what's beyond the wall...Basically what happens in game of thrones. So it's about the future...what you are saying is exactly what Alicent thought and hence they usurped the throne lol
@@a.m.pietroschek1972 You are aware there is magic even in ASOIAF times, ye? And there are people who can use it like the warlocks in Essos, some sorcerers and priests on both continents, the Red Witch (although she claims it's the power of her god, not hers), Thoros of Myr (magic flaming sword), etc.? How about the fact that Catelyn Stark, the mighty Karen of the North is a fucking ZOMBIE, a literal undead walking around since the Red Wedding? There are also other famous cases like what happened to Aerea Targaryen and Balerion on their little holiday over in Old Valyria. And speaking of Old Valyria, it wasn't rule by just dragonriders. Those very same dragonlords were actually also blood mages (although Targaryens weren't blood mages, but neither they were a powerful house back in those times), which Viserys mentions in the show, by the way. And not to forget Others/White Walkers and all of the magic connected to that. So yeah, Westeros/ASOIAF is full of magic, we just don't directly see it that often apart from a few characters that the main characters interact with.
Now that I think about it, I realize Rhaenyra has never really done anything to SERVE the Realm throughout all the time Viserys was alive. The only thing that comes close is her sitting in Council meetings and MAYBE helping in decision making. We don’t even get any specifics of what she did or what she accomplished. More likely than not, she probably just did minor contributions (otherwise we would have heard about her great accomplishments). She gave more problems to her succession because of her scandal with Daemon and her 3 bastards. Instead of trying to solidify her claim, it’s like she purposefully just set herself up to fail because she thinks she can get away with it. She’s now facing the consequences.
My dear, Rhaenyra’s story is a tragedy because she was set up for failure…. No matter what decision she made, everyone would not be happy about it….. I blame Viserys personally…. It was a very open secret that Laenor would not be able to give her children… and as Heir, children was her responsibility and those children had to come from somewhere…. If she didn’t have kids with Hardin, they’d still say she’s shouldn’t be heir because she’s barren….. even if her children were legitimate, they’d probably say she told someone that looked like Laenor or that it’s Corlys’ child or bring up some other bullshit excuse…. Every time she tried to make moves as heir, she was undermined by Alicent, Otto when he was there and her own Father… I mean, why was she still cupbearer as heir??…. Not to mention, the tour….. Every decision Viserys made was viewed as he was going to sell her off somewhere….. Rhaenyra was basically being entangled in the mess of her family, trying to clean them up and then being blamed for everything from Daemon, to the Valeryons and to her father That’s what makes her story tragic…. Btw, for anyone saying that she would have slept with someone who looked like Laenor… who do you want her to sleep with? Corlys??…. Rhaenys would skin her alive Or Vaemond???… we all know how greedy he was Face it, She didn’t just sleep with Harwin just because…. She took someone she could trust not to be in situation where she could be blackmailed….
I find it soooo strange that everyone compares Alicent to Cersei when Rhaenerya is a very one to one match with Cersei and Alicent as actually far more akin to Catelyn. Cersei and Rhaenrya: - Both have 3 bastard children who look nothing like their alleged fathers and yet are passed off as legitimate heirs - Is known to shirk duty and responsibility in favour of sexual escapades - Has incestous relationships with 2 men in their family - Thinks they are a lot smarter than they actually are which often leads them into bad situations Catelyn and Alicent - fights to make her son King after the death of her husband - woman who often finds herself sitting at the political table to make decision's with or about her son - woman who dutifully follows the faith of the seven - Truely loves her husband (although it's platonic for Alicent and more of a show thing.) Alicent and Cersei - Married a King - Portrayed negatively by the show
Cersei, negatively portrayed in the show? Are you kidding me? In the books she is a freaking dumb lunatic. Any of the humanizing scenes of her are not present in the book. I don't know what books you read, but I can tell you never read A Feast for Crows.
I always wondered what made Viserys think that after how he gained the throne people were going to support Rhaenyra’s claim, specially because she had 3 male brothers in contrast to Rhaenys who was the only child of her father with no siblings at all. I believe Rhaenys would have made an excellent queen. Pd. I know she had support from some major houses but the war was meant to happen somehow.
The Targaryen were leech Lords, landlords of a foreign people. Refusing to interact or breed with them to keep their blood pure from the commons. Jaehaerys the conciliator was the first true ruler of a people and not some landlord with a dragon
interesting take cosidering it was Jaehaerys that invented and legalised "Targaryan exceptionalism" forcing the fate to accept that targaryans are above other people and the incest that they commit is legal and just Jaehaerys also didn't do much other than rule in a great time afther his ancestors had done most of the killing and disposed of the strongest enemies he was smart yes but so was aegon who managed far greater feats than j ever did Aegeon was also accepted and respected by most of the realm for he did conquer and did burn his enemies but he also knew when to show mercy and negotiate, to collect armies and unite people ander his banner these aren't things you can do just with a dragon he did conquer and unite 6/7 kingdoms that were always waging war against eachother and created a dynasty that lasted for many hundreds of years
I agree with everything you said. Rhaenyra was always unfit to rule. I remember feeling the same way after I read Fire and Blood, even though the Greens weren't exactly the best people in the world either. Rhaenyra just always came across as a whiny, spoilt brat to me in the book, and I could tell that her ambitions for the throne weren't based on a sense of duty (e.g. like Stannis, for example). She was always just selfish and ruthless, though the show has certainly whitewashed these aspects of her personality.
The book is also written mostly by green supporters so it’s understandable why they would want to vilify Rhaenyra more to make their side more sympathetic.
I can understand that they’d whitewash all the characters in the first season. They want to build a character arc for them. Even though they were whitewashed I still saw viewers complaining that they weren’t like the honourable “perfect” Starks from GOT. It’s like some people can’t handle immoral characters. Book Alicent left Viserys body to rot for weeks on end. Book Aegon was impregnating hand maidens and sleeping with under age children. Book Aemond wasn’t bullied or teased for not having a dragon. They whitewashed all the characters. Idk why people focus on Rhaenyra the most.
@@mackmitchell94 Nonsense. Just excuses from Rahenyra simps in denial. None of the Greens were written as better people, while the Blacks were written as better. Especially the so called "Lads"...the cringe shonen anime kids.
I'll admit my first watch of the show I was quite empty headed and didn’t question anyone's motives and actions until my second vieweing, but I do remember being confused because Rhaenyra still had the same routine as before she was named the heir, now that she is to be queen shouldn’t she be taught law and how to rule? I found that odd but just kept watching since I really like the show
I think this is more like a superstition and confirmation bias. I am pretty sure that the huge chair made of sharp metal cut everyone but the mediveal like people of Westeros would happily use this against those who they seemed unfit.
IDK if youre being sarcastic but I wholeheartedly believe this. Let the dude have his blood on the throne and he would take them out of the medieval period.
The people who blindly support Rhaenyra (team black) tend to be the most casual of fans, it’s mainly just people who watched the show first. It’s the same people who defend Dany burning an entire city down for no reason (and hate Jon) while in the same breath calling the writing bad and saying she wouldn’t do it. The greens have the more logical fan base by a country mile, and those who don’t choose a side period tend to be even more based.
The only good guy was the Sheperd. Guy pulled a storming of the Bastille but against fire breathing giant lizards. Based as fuck. All nobles are leeches.
Not really, both sides of the fandom are horrible. I’ve came across lots of TG Stan’s that like Daenerys and think she also did nothing wrong in S8 EP5. I’ve seen TG Stan’s state Dyanna was lying about being raped by Aegon, then stating that she deserved, saying she should be grateful, and wish they were a rape victim like her, etc. I don’t understand people like you like to act things are one-sided, when it’s obviously not this way.
Lol no side is logical. Both sides have done horrible questionable things and none of them are saints. But at the end of the day it's just a fictional show so yea we all take sides blindly
@@FoxxyFatima "I’ve seen TG Stan’s state Dyanna was lying about being raped by Aegon, then stating that she deserved, saying she should be grateful, and wish they were a rape victim like her, etc" lol what? ive never seen this once uttered freakin anywhere XD?! to say that those ppl are a minority would be a laughable understatement, so far most of what im saying are brainless politically obsessed blacks fans.
I agree. This shows how well King George VI prepared his oldest daughter well to be Queen Elizabeth II, his heir. Elizabeth II proven herself why she is a worthy successor compared to Rhaenyra in the House of the Dragon.
Its a lot easier when you don't actually rule (as the house of Windsor currently does not and never did during the reigns of George VI or Elizabeth II). Whereas, even under Medieval European standards, the Targaryen's rule with absolutism that would make Louis 14'th green with envy. When so much power is concentrated in one individual, even minor screw-ups can have massive consequences.
I looked this up after wondering why people are praising her and acting like she's some great leader. Whether it's the show or the books, she's just awful and completely incompetent. It's almost as if she always makes the worst possible choices. One thing we can say for Danny, at least she was decisive; if a bit too harsh and naive at times. Rhaenyra and her mismanagement of Daemon alone is horrifically bad.
Dany isn’t entitled like Rhaenyra. She won her own battles and advanced to rule mereen. She also grew her army and her fleet. Yes she had a council, but every leader does.
Dany in the books is more subtlety entitled, as in she thinks that the IT deserves to be hers, and while she definitely has a claim, Robert won it through conquest-the same way Aegon did way back when. She’s entitled in the way an indoctrinated child is, because that’s what she is, an indoctrinated child who believes her family deserves to rule because of their history with dragons.
I am not a fan of Daenerys but Rhaenyra made me appreciate her more. Rhaenyra has to be the worst main character in fiction with bias naration of the show runner.
@@kingmisogyny1852 I noticed that bias in episode 3 with how that White stag shot was filmed. Made it seem like rheanyra was the rightful heir. But then I thought - hoped really - that the writers were just being clever. That the scene was actually showing Rheanyra's thought process and not an objective view of the situation. If this is so, I can bypass all the many many questionable directions the show went in. But the show would need to successufly show near the end that all the characters (even the ones they put a positive light on) are trash. And the audience needs to be convinced. Because the amount of people who truly believe in Rheanyra is worrisome.
@@rexibhazoboa7097| Because she is the right heir, as she literally named so by her father. That’s why we were shown the White stag. Please tell me you don’t expect people support a rapist, that’s much more concerning than supporting a woman, who’s birthright was stolen from on account of her gender, for the most part. Accept it.
Couldnt agree more with ur statement. I only chose the greens because they know how to manage a kingdom unlike Rhaenyra given she gave the Greens 6 YEARS TO RULE. Rt for all her good heart says she will create a new order but does nothing to help herself, her children, her relationship and image with the people over the course of when she is named heir. 1. Has 3 obvious bastards 2, which weakens Rt claims n creates succession crisis 3. Supports a law that mutilates people( it’s TREASON TO TALK ABOUT MY TREASON) 4. Marries a man who was DENOUNCED as Heir which is the SOLE REASON y she was named heir in the first place. 5. Encourages her uncle publicly in FRONT OF HER FUTURE IN LAWS n help say that rumor was TRUE in episode 5. 6. Makes EVERYONE believe she killed her HUSBAND INCLUDING HER FOMER IN LAWS. 7 and 8 Marries a man who killed his FIRST WIFE AND IS NOT ALLOWED IN THE VALE WHICH IS ONR OF THE SIX KINGDOMS SHE WILL GOVERN N NEED SUPPORT IN THE UPCOMING WAR. 9. Didn’t visit her father for 6 years 10. Didn’t visit king landing for 6 years the place she will rule later. 11. Let greens RULE THE KINGDOM FOR 6 years 12. Didn’t build any alliances for 6 years on dragonstone. 13. trying to USURP THE DRIFTMART THRONE 14 and 15 last minute marriage proposals that were denied by Alicent and Rhaenys 16. Advocated for the torture of her brother in episode 7 17. Didn’t visit her father until she needed something from him a man who is loosing body parts by the minute. 18. Didnt know who her Allies were before she went to war. 19. Sleep with men knowing if they r caught they will be tortured n killed. (Criston +HARWIN) 20. Sent her sons REMINDER LETTERS to the LORDS SHE WILL NEED TO MAKE ALLIANCES 21. Offered NOTHING IN RETURN FOR THE ALLIANCES / EMPTY HANDS. Rt comes with to much baggage as an heir while Aegon faults are not publicly known and lets be honest Aegon will be doing what he and Rhaenyra was doing for the last 6 years lets Otto, Alicent, and the rest of the council do the work lolre of Westeros. I only chose the greens because they know how to manage a kingdom unlike Rhaenyra given she gave the Greens 6 YEARS TO RULE.
3. Alicent also wanted to take out Lucerys’ eye. So by that logic, so she also supports that. It’s even more impactful for her side, since she was the queen. 4. How does that matter? 7&8. Nobody knows Daemon killed Rhea, only her cousin. If you’re gonna apply this to him, apply it to Aegon, as well since, only a few people know about his sexual predatory history and his visitations to the child fighting pits. 10. Heirs of the Irone Throne take up residence on the island. We hear of this with Rhaegar, as he moved himself; Elia; and their children there. 13. She didn’t usurp the Driftwood throne, at all. Corlys never named Baela and Rhaena as heirs, only Luke (and Joff). Baela and Rhaena are Targaryens and are children of the second born child of the Lord of Driftmark. This makes no sense. 14&15. How was it last minute? Rhaenys literally accepted the proposal, so let’s not lie here. The hand and regent still have more power and influence than the princess and heir to the throne, wether she was present or not. We see this in S1 EP 3. TG essentially let the smallfolk of KL starve, while they made sure lamb was delivered to them. Rhaenyra also was the ruling Lady of Dragonstone, so she has experience.
@@FoxxyFatima Alicent ONLY wanted revenge after Luke was not punished for taking aemond eye and it was in that moment that she wanted Luke eye and its not treason to ask for that n that was a moment that she instantly regretted. Rhaenyra supports that law because it immediately defends her from the fact that she was committing high treason which is very bad for the CURRENT HEIR. One women wants revenge in the 1 moment on 1 person during a stressful situation and felt bad afterward…The other women however uses this law to defend her constant mistakes and accepts the mutilation of ANYONE who dares speak for the next 6 years….. Truth does not matter only perception, the perception is daemon killed his wife and because how he treated her he was kicked out of the vale. When the CURRENT heir marries a man who was DENOUNCED as heir its incredible dangerous and politically stupid on the current heir. Yes she was planning on it. If rhaenys didn’t agree with the proposal and if corlys died Rhaenyra and the king would be usurping the drift mart throne away from rhaenys and vaemond…Its usurping “How was it last minute?”……… Ur joking right rhaenyra always proposes marriage when her back is turned to regain some level of control for herself….rewatch episode 8 again n tell me how is that proposal aint a desperate last minute attempt. “TG essentially let the smallfolk of KL starve, while they made sure lamb was delivered to them.” U mean TEAM BLACK was STARVING the people in season 2 with the blockade. “Rhaenyra also was the ruling Lady of Dragonstone, so she has experience.” Experience in what? She was a stay at home mom for 6 years on an island with servants and her family with no big population. What exactly is Rhaneyra experience? I can make a list of how bad aegon is but the problem is though rhaenyra is half of aegon age and she has made more grave mistakes then him and from all ive written down its shows y she shouldn’t rule over him.
@@akiwaaaa First i aint saying the greens aint did nothing wrong but the blacks caused most of the issues that they themselves created. I think u forgot to mention that psycho did nothing wrong but claimed a dragon n then he was jumped by 4 other kids. N when he pushed back he grabbed a rock he then insulted jace then he lowered the rock n jace decides to pull a knife. go to my earlier comments n tell im wrong with what i stated.
He tried he gave her good teachers but refused to learn she is a bad student alysane targaryen another woman she didn't have any teachers because she was a 5 th child but she is a better ruler then rhaneyra
viserys made a huge mistake of not even training her the moment he decided to name her heir...it's stupidity on top of stupidity on his part. he should know what will happen after he dies, but he had no plan AT ALL to lift her up beyond just the claim that he pronounced her as his heir. it's so unforgivably stupid of him to completely forgot the training part...she had no allies by the time he died.
@@ecesuasici7321 he wasn't that bad but he's stubbornly weak minded. he is a peaceful king, which is good but he lacks the savviness to plot and scheme to ensure his daughter is well respected and well connected among the great houses. he foolishly think just his proclamation of her as his heir is sufficient.
Great analysis! While watching the vid, Alicent’s infamous line came to my mind, “Where is duty? Where is sacrifice? It’s trampled under your pretty foot again.” Her line basically coincides with what you said in 5:41, “What I see in Rhaenyra is an entitled woman who prioritizes her own interests over that of the Realm.” What has Rhaenyra ever done for the Realm as heir, really? Even as a child, she’s made the wrong choices time and again-and she just expects everyone to put it under the rug because she’s the princess. That’s definitely not what’s happening in hotd now. She’s paying the price of her mistakes more and more. Come to think of it, Alicent has done more for the Realm-ruling in Viserys’ stead when he was gravely ill and being active in politics. Sure, Alicent is facing troubles of her own in S2 (which are also partly her fault). But if we were to talk about duty between Rhaenyra and Alicent…I’d have to say that it’s Alicent who has done a lot more for the Realm throughout the years. The only time Rhaenyra did something for the Realm was (SPOILER ‼️‼️) that time in season 2 episode 6 where she gave food to King’s Landing. Again, for her own interest since she plans on winning the war. Plus, it wasn’t even her idea since it came from Mysaria.
She was the one who caused the food shortage in the first place. It's pure propaganda (a very smart one, I have to say) that you create a problem for the common people and the common people will blame their immediate ruler then you come up with a solution to the problem you had caused and become a messiah-figure.
Oh wow a child makes wrong decisions 😂 You made none when u were a kid right with your own responsibilities? There's so much to criticize Rhaenyra for but that point is 🤡
5:37 a critical difference between Rhae and Aegon. Aegon has a ton of similarities to Robert although he seems to have a better relationship with his brother than Robert.
Weird, Aegon was blamed for NOT practicing & studying (like Aemond did), but the same viewers consider the mistakes of Rhaenyra to be meaningless & harmless??? She was dumb enough to risk her future for a cheap-shot brothel visit. She demands instead of DOING anything to reach the goals. She neither trains the dragonriders (not of Pern), nor does ANYTHING royal or pro-house Targaryen. It COULD be a depiction of the madness that is subtly running in ALL the Targaryen bloodline.
In the show, Rhaenyra is portrayed very sympathetically by the script and has the benefit of being well acted by Alcock and especially D’Arcy. It’s hard to be against someone who (1) is the main protagonist, (2) takes down a boar and sees the white stag we’re told is related to kingship, (3) has children by another man only after it turns out that her husband is too gay to impregnate her, (4) does that courageous march to Alicent after giving birth, and (5) was the catalyst for the most powerful tv scene in years where Visereys taking the iron throne the last time. None of that would necessarily make Rhaenyra a good queen but show-watchers forgiving her things they don’t forgive Aegon is unavoidable.
Rhaenyra was the ruling Lady of Dragonstone, so she has much more experience with ruling than Aegon. While she did visit that whore house, Corlys still accepted the marriage proposal from Viserys.
The show doesn't even make sense sometimes. It's just fanfiction for fire and blood. Rhaenys will say dumb shit like the council should respect Rhaenyra because she wears Jaehaerys crown. She says that as if it matters, as if Jaehaerys would've supported Rhaenyra. The show is bad for deciding for the viewers who they want to believe is right. No one is right but the green side in the books were fighting for laws to be followed, they fighting so the ruling monarch and the people would have checks and balances. The show changed things to make the black side more favorable while at the same time they purposely made up things to make the greens seem like they're all villains. Daemon is a pedo in the books and a man who murdered small folks for fun. But they don't show that. Instead they make Aegon a rapist when at worst, Aegon was a drunk unfaithful to his wife because he didn't want to marry his sister.
rhaenyra is not fit to be queen. I never seen any reason to root for her. Both aegon ang rhaenyra is not fit to rule. She is the first woman to be the heir. So she should prove herself and pave the way to next future queens. But she just do whatever she like
As much as I like Viserys, he didn't do a good job raising Rhaenyra or Aegon to be good rulers. He really should have been there for them in their youth, when they were able to be molded into what a ruler should be. In fact, him declaring Rhaenyra the heir was a mistake when the possibility of remarrying and having a son was always there.
A very well thought out video. Fans of the show tries to pretend that Rhaenyra is some “woman boss” where critics and dislikers dislike her because she’s solely a woman when the show is showing that neither party had any right to sit on the throne.
It's crazy how different book and show renerya are. I've always been team green, but this just proves to me that the show is trying to push a Blacks -good, Greens-evil story. Also this seems to prove that they are making all the women, except Helena (from what i understand, Helena even in the books, was pretty much the only non-morally gray character in this story), the good guys, and all the men the bad guys in the show.
Even though in the show they tried to make the character "nicer", I never thought she was "good". On the other hand, Alicent went through rough times and she's motivated by her morals (questionable or not), so I have a TON more simpathy for her than Rhaenyra.
Viserys should have changed the succession as soon as Aegon was born. He had long wanted to have a son and the realm also wanted it. What was the point of remarrying then?
Rhaenyra as heir was a disaster right after she tried to pass Jace of as trueborn Viserys should have disowned her and after she followed that by having two other bastards sons well. Viserys was not a good king himself a blinded himself to his daughters misdeeds. And to follow that up by Leanors suspicious death too boot. She would never have made a good Queen her side had no one that k re how to run a relam her closest advisers were Deamon that had run from ever form of responsibility and Corlys that had not sat the small council in years.
in my opinion, jace is trueborn since laenor had no need to acknowledge him because HE IS HIS son, to legitimate a bastard he had to be known as one but laenor never raised his voice be it in the show or books because there's no DNA test to even begin with. jace would've made such a good king, but i guess the iron throne never let a dark haired targaryens to rule.
@@_lilactears4900so your argument is because noone can disprove otherwise then its fine, dude that's not an argument thats like saying its fine that oj got away with murder.
@@_lilactears4900your opinion is irrelevant to the fact-Jace was illegitimate, regardless of what Laenor, Corlys, or Viserys said. It's the reality of the situation. Rhaenyra had bastards. She passed these bastards off as legitimate heirs. She, Laenor, and Harwin committed treason and Viserys enabled them.
@@khfan4life365 Do Rhaenyra's children not have the blood of the dragon? That seems to be the most important point in the whole passing the throne business or they would have simply done things in the Roman way and selected a new ruler from the military generals or an adopted child or nephew. Sir Laenor made his choice and Rhaenyra made hers for the sake of stability in the kingdom that demanded heirs from the heir apparent. You people need to get over the whole bastard situation the only person who should be complaining is Laenor because his Valeryon blood did not pass on.
@@Tikka143 The Strong bastards got cradle eggs because Rhaenyra and Viserys were scared since it was obvious they were bastards. Jace, the first bastard, was born when Daeron, the last Targtower, was born. That's why Daeron was the only Targtower, sans Aegon's and Helaena's kids, who got cradle eggs, and Aegon, Helena and Aemond didn't. Viserys did the opposite of legitimizing them. He insisted they were *definitely* trueborn. The same guy who said "tongues will not change the succession; let them wag." repeatedly threatened to de-tongue anyone who "wagged" about the Strong boys because he knew it was true, but he didn’t have the backbone to punish Rhaenyra. Viserys was 90% responsible for the Dance. Laenor claiming them as his children doesn't make them legitimate. Just makes it a lot harder to argue. Had he stayed in King's Landing, the Strong boys' position would actually be better. Their claim depended on being Laenor’s trueborn children with Rhaenyra. That’s why Rhaenyra making him disappear was stupid and pretty much assured a civil war.
One of the things I liked about Fire and Blood that I don't like about HotD is that the former isn't trying to spread propaganda for one side, it gives the raw cold truth about both sides. It's adaptation however is clearly shilling for the Blacks
Really? I thought Fire and Blood was written by the greens to make the black seem worse. And even then the show does show us better sides of the greens, because Aemond was portrayed as a bit more crazy, but in the show it displays him killing Luke as a rash and stupid manslaughtering act rather than murder. And Rhanerya killing Laenor was just an act. And I think (not hundred percent sure) George said that the show is more accurate than the books and I think even showrunners said that it's a more accurate depiction of the Dance of the Dragons.
@@absab2899 No, George said show is different than book canon. It was the writers trying to say 'this is more accurate' but George shut that down, though he does enjoy some of the changes, like Viserys who was played so well by the actor.
WOW, I havent seen all of your video, but they resonate so much how I think. I also read the book and you describe her exactly as she came to be. You could see even in her youth she was careless and not fulfilling her duty, but not wanting anything to do with it, yet wanting power. Your video is so empowering for me, because thats exactly what I saw of her since season 1 and quite dislike how ppl around me judge her in favor all the time, while she was litterally being full of herself and lying and trying to shut truth... about her bastards and among other things.
@@ottersirotten4290Viserys do take action, but Rhaenyra is just too much of a brat Instead of actually listen she is trying to argue with her father all the time, she is extremely difficult If she could just be patient, Daeron, Viserys 3rd son will make the perfect King
@@dotaheaven633 Granted Rheanera is a spoiled Brat and completely unsiuted for any Role of Authority and he did made her his Cupbearer in the desperat Hope She will learn ANYTHING and occasionally tried to talk Sense into her, but thats far to little. Worse of all however was him fathering legitimate Sons and doing absolutely nothing to prevent the Succession Crises(actually 2 Succession Crisises since Rhaeneras Offspring is illegitimate with Zero plausible Deniabillity) everyone and theyre Grandmas saw coming.
i know this title of the show is house of the dragon and centered through the pov of targaryeans, so the show subconsciously makes people root for her, but she's completely incompetent. she has no allies, and had years to network and gain support but never even bother to. she stupidly have bastards who are clearly not looking like what valyerions look like...that itself shows her lack of political savviness. and lastly, she basically just throws around "i am the heir" and have no gravitas. and she is too dull to see daemon was using her as a stepping stone to rule. i dont think she's a bad person but she's just not fit to rule. it's not like the other option is great either but she has the worst claim to the throne. the only thing that she clinged on to is her father declaring her heir. sometimes going into the subreddit and reading the comments supporting her just make my eyes roll lol
While her brother Aegon would have been the opposite. Too good or too kind for his own good. Aegon wouldn't wanted anything but to please. The King Robert comparison is interesting because this characters didn't become alcoholic just to show us that they are bad people. But to look further in and realize that they are hurt and broken. For King Robert was Lenna but for Aegon is much more interesting. I believe Aegon since birth had his wings clipped like Sunfyre was after battle with the redqueen. A symbolism of Aegon's character, all for the betterment of Reynera chances at claiming the iron throne. Viserys was the reason for Aegon's alcoholism. The most beautiful dragon with his wings clipped from birth.
The only reason she failed was because she took the throne while a war was ongoing and the crown in debt thanks to Alicent and aegon spending most of it on the war and as long as both rhaenyera and aegon were alive it wouldn’t have ended and it didn’t anyway until Cregan showed up. Had she taken the throne in a peaceful time when she was suppose to it wouldn’t have happened viserys having male heirs didn’t help her situation at all.
Rhaenyra spent her forming years as a brash, abrasive girl that scoffs at responsibility and being self-centered (Refusing to even consider political marrige, ignoring the implecations for Cole cuz she's horny), spent her adault years making bastards without even considering the consequences, runs away from court and responsibility AGAIN, and spends most of the present doing nothing, being indecisive and entitled. She is a failure in every aspect of nobility and rulership, and the fact that the show tries to paint her as a heroine rather than the villain she is annoys me to no end.
This video is - as unfortunately many videos about Rhaenyra - very unfair and misogynistic. I am tired of hearing "she wouldn't be good queen cause he has three bastrds" - she does not have any bastards (none can prove her this at least, and NO 'child look' is not proof in court, that is not how patriarchal society works), and even if she had - it's stil doesn;t alter her ability as ruler. Creator himself admitted she would be 'mediocrate' queen if she ruled during peace and then he contradicted himself by claiming 'she would never be a good queen'. Make it makes sens. Rhaenyra was robbed of her rightful inheritence and when she got capital city back, she got it without her treasure in midst of ongoing war: he keeps blaming ONE woman that she couldn't overcome what happened around instead of those who caused this situation in first place.
Even if the Dance didn’t happen, Rhaenyra’s rule was bound to be disastrous mostly because of the strong bastards problem. They’d would always be contest, and let’s not forget that I doubt that Daemon wouldn’t raise against them because of his trueborn sons right. I believe that in the end a civil war would have occurred anyway
True, if only Rhaenyra is not such a headache to his father, Daeron will be the absolute best heir, Aegon and Aemond love him, everyone love him And yet Rhaenyra is so stubborn and entitled, she refuse and keep other lords annoyed
I genuinely feel like people who watch HOTD and support the main characters did not watch GOT. Like, they had us rooting for characters like Tywin and Stannis. But, it does give us a glimpse into the mindset of a privileged House (with dragons, they consider themselves way above the rest of the Westerosi). Robert B. had to win the throne, Lannisters had to use force to keep the power and Tyrells and Starks etc. The Targaryens are above all that, they are better, whereas in GOT, they were in a sense, equal Houses, but Targaryens were above the others or atleast that's how they thought. I think that's the reason they do not solve their differences among themselves, because of this egoistic privilege. The political dynamics of HOTD is a bit different than GOT.
Rhaenyra, in the books, warned her father that Laenor would be a bad match because he was known to only be interested in men but Viserys threatened to remove her as heir if she didn’t go through with the marriage. It was stupid to have illegitimate kids but, at the same time, she was forced into a marriage with a man everyone knew was gay.
Vserys didn’t respect the past custom that made him King. His cousin was older but was passed on because she was a woman and now he expected the same people who didn’t want his older female cousin would stand behind the older female child. Also, Laenor was a bad rep for Rhaenyra. Sleeping around with minors enough the people were just sick of him. He is what we would call a “Predator” if not a “groomer”. Having illegitimate kids was just an icing on the cake for Rhaenyra in comparison what her husband does. At least she should have kept it hidden or find another Targaryen bastard to mess around instead of a Strong. Corlys had an indirect cause, he knew of his Son’s lack of interest in women, but the Lord of The Tides dismissed it as “I am not fond of fish, but I eat it when it’s served”. Yeah sexual orientation is not like eating fish or liking to eat fish.
This is the best, most concise perspective of Rhaenyra I've seen so far. I care about Rhaenyra in the series, but Rhaenyra - book and series - makes way too many mistakes. Accepting that she is an ill-prepared, less than competent ruler does not mean that the opposite was true for Aegon II, of course. I'd like to think that if Good Queen Alysanne managed to persuade Jaeherys I to choose Rhaenys as his successor, the realm and the Targaryen dynasty would have been better off.
I agree with everything but you seem to forget that Fire and Blood takes place through the eyes of a maester who was bias towards the green so he might have twisted the story for her to look worse than she actually was
I really believe that ANY of the characters of this story are good for the throne all of them are just thinking in themselves using the people or the crown responsabilities like an excuse, No one have the values that are needed to be a good leader.
@@lumarrandom8144 If you said Aemond then maybe I’d agree with you. We know aegon isn’t a decent ruler. To be a good ruler people have either love you, fear you or respect you. Nobody fears or respects him and he’d never rule himself, other people would rule for him. He’s a fool and he’s eventually killed by his own men.
To Rhaenrya's claim, Viserys never did prepared her to be honest. He always wanted a male heir who will bear The Conquer's crown and name. He only see her as a princess. Only when his wife and his son had died he saw Rhaenrya has his heir.and he never prepared her also when he choose her. How a heir should be , how a heir should act like, the traits. He only spoiled her and except the realm to be loyal to him and his heir since he believes the king's words is final and hold values.
I think book and movie might have it different. In the movie, Rhaenyra is depicted as a good mother who deeply cares about her children. She is gentle and knows how to love. She is humane, whereas Alicent is more robotic, having considered herself a dutiful person who has set her own desires aside. Rhaenyra might not be the best queen, but she is stubborn, innovative (as seen when she found dragon riders), brave, and careful at the same time (as she tried to avert the war). She’s definitely not like Daenerys because she had doubts about being the heir and wasn’t paranoid or eager to set fire to everyone who disagreed with her.
She did IDIOTIC thing by making ulf dragon rider In fact this all her new dragon riders are traitors , ulf specifically think he should be King because he now rides the biggest dragon Causing thousands to die by dragon, bro Rhaenyra is absolute bich
Cannot believe I discovered this amazing channel just now. Thank you for this video! But you said "Check out the Daenarys Targaryan above" - where is it? I want more vids plz
@@absab2899 if a woman had the personality of robert, she would be worse than robert, a man can have bastards all day long and it wont matter because WE DONT GIVE BIRTH TO THE LITTLE SHITS, so we can deny that they are ours, but when they pop out of you, you cant do that, so a woman have bastards is worse than am an having bastards, is that fair? no its not fair, not even close, but life isnt fair so get over it, I will never be able to make millions on only fans, and you will never be able to be in charge because we dont want you in charge.
I know it will be a comment out of the storyline but especially in Dance of Dragons, they were all plot devices to make happen the civil war. George needed a civil war that would wipe out the dragons, and he made it happen with the wrong choices of multiple incompetent characters. In such a story, that's the only way. In ASOIAF, he firstly created characters and through them he develop the story. But in Fire and Blood, the civil war was always there, in ASOIAF some characters mentioned about it, and when it came to Fire and Blood, he had to fill the gaps. That's why they all seem incompetent, failing bunch of people.
EVERY story needs things to happen, if not there would be no story. But the thing is how the writter constructs it. And the way George built the Dance of the Dragons is HARDLY bad. He stablishes that Lords tend to be out of touch with reality, given their privileges. Add that Targaryens are SUPER entilted and have Dragons. He made sure that the two sides had a personal hatred and as we see, those are the hardest to get over. So add people super entilted, that care VERY little about the realm and hate one another? Fraticidal Civil War.
He did made her his Cupbearer wich is a Position almost always filled by Proteges for the purpos of learning and besides, nobody stoped her from picking up a Book or two
@@ktbecstasy umm did you watch the same show? in episode 9, they went to a child fighting ring and they found one of aegon’s bastards. in fact aegon had multiple bastards, it’s in the books as well. he has legitimate children with helaena but so does rhaenyra with daemon. basically both aegon and rhaenyra have bastard children and legitimate children so that’s not even an argument valid for why aegon should be king
@@ktbecstasy rhaenyra could’ve legitimatized her sons if she really wanted to. again if her sons with leanor (harwin) couldn’t have a claim, then at least her sons with daemon could have one. and they would have a great claim because they would mostly be pure valryian blood and they are the children of viserys’s daughter and brother. that’s more of a claim than half hightower children. also breaking news, women like sex just as much as men. but women get shamed for it. ageon was equally a whore as much as rhaenyra if not more but because he’s a man, you don’t care. go support a rapist if you want but nyra is literally the true heir. cope
@@ktbecstasy if nyra became queen, she literally could’ve legitimized her sons. not to mention she still has legitimate children with daemon. if people were too iffy about jace ruling, then aegon (nyras’s child not alicent’s) and viserys have good claims as well. not to mention they pretty much have pure valyrian blood except for being probably less than a quarter arryn. and their parents are literally the king’s daughter and brother. meanwhile alicent’s children are half hightower and viserys didn’t give a fuck about them. and in the end it was nyra’s bloodline that continued the targaryen dynasty. so again….cope
That is the decision of the acting King as was the rule passed down to only pass the line through male heirs. There is also the issue of Corlyis Valeryon and his navy might and wealth that was originally looked over by the King in favor of the HighTowers. Rhaenyra was the only option that had the succession been handled right, would not have ended in a full out war.
the thing that made viserys heir is the same thing that made rhaenyra heir , king jaeherys proved that a king has authority to choose heir while ignoring the andal law (when he favoured viserys instead of rhaenys) by making council . And viserys did the same thing jaeherys did before him , ignoring the andal law and choosing heir and making lords swear oaths to him /her . that made the majority of WESTROS side for rhaenyra in this conflict
In the books, the story is told from a biased perspective and should be interpreted as such. What is made "clear" is more often than not a lie, a misinterpretation, or information from an untrustworthy source. Once you realize that the truth is much harder to grasp.
I'm sick from this horrible argument. I'LL TAKE FIRE & BLOOD OVER HOTD THE BLACK PROPAGANDA ANY DAY. It's the show that is told from a biased perspective (Ryan Condal is absolutely biased black stan). Even GRRM said that his book is a VALID interpretation in which we don't know what's true or not. And F&B is written by MULTIPLE biased perspectives, unlike the show that is written by two Black-loving chumps who have a vendetta against the Greens as much as D&D hated Stannis. And GRRM talked PERSONALLY about Rhaenyra long before Fire & Blood, and he confirmed multiple times that Rhaenyra's personality wasn't pleasant. That she was arrogant and spoiled. The show pretends she's a saint.
Oh, please. Of course, people would want us to forget the stuff that makes sense in favor of the nonsense. Would you like us to shut off our brains, too? In the show, they changed addam and Alyn's age to fit a narrative. It wasn't to clear up truths. The age change comes because the modern-day writers can't fathom a gay man having natural born children.
"Every ruler had bastards!" Baelor didn't. Also, none of the other rulers tried to place their bastards on the throne after them. Rhaenyra was breaking the social contract in Westeros, and the greens had every right to deny her.
Firstly, the show version of her is not the same as the book version. And she was forced to marry a gay man, so the only likely way she could have any children would be through a paramour. Also, the 'true born' argument is all well and good but so was naming a successor - which he did. In fact, that is how HE was on the throne too. Book Rhaenyra aka the Realm's delight because of the tours she did of Westeros in her youth was married young and then had the business of producing children. But im sure you would also blame her if she hadnt had any children! Vicerys is the main problem here. He shouldnt have remarried and to her friend no less, and then had more children which put her position in jeopardy despite the succession had already been decided and reinforced several times. Her move to Dragonstone was brought aboit because Alicent was constantly berrating her and making her own children despise Rhaenyra even though she had done nothing to her brothers and sister. And Alicent, is she had indeed been a close friend, shouldnt have seduced her friends father (after he unsuccessful attempts at seducing the previous king!) but again, its her father who pushed her to do this to give himself more power. And if she had been a man, and screwed half the kingdom, no one would be calling him a whore. The double standards are infuriating! Its a shame she was forced to marry a man totally unsuitable and hadnt married Daemon as they both wished. Then there wouldnt have been as much of an issue.
Sorry to break it to you bro but societal norms are stronger than dragonfire. You can't just apply our modern libertarian views to a medieval society, it doesn't work like that.
She wasn’t a good ruler by far but by gods she’s better than Aemond and Aegon. She was willing to listen and learn and didn’t have a thirst for bloodshed
Aegon is not blood thirsty, yes he assaulted maid once, but then Rhaenyra is also sexual deviant all of them is entitled Aegon younger brother, 3rd son of Viserys should be the perfect King, Aegon btw actually cares, people call him the realm delight but of course because of war people suffers
someone enlighten me on this? couldn't Viserys just said that Rhaenyras first born male son will inherit after his death, instead of her?? would that solve anything?
She could have had her bastard sons and dealt with it openly and then legitimized them. Forcing everyone in Westeros to partake in this charade cost her legitimacy. The show also portrayed very well during her tour of the riverlands how unfit a ruler she was. Arrogant, mocking her future vassals, letting 2 lords duel for her sake and just leaving them to return home. Viserys showed her all the mercy that not even his brother could expect.
I mean even if you think Rhaenyra would be equally as bad as Aegon at ruling. Rhaenyra winning still does something very important. At least women could be in power. Chances are laws could be put in place to protect the rights of women more. Even if it's not perfectly equal, I still think Rhaenyra's side is more likely to do this than Aegon's side. Remember, the greens literally let Rhaenyra's son be the ruler over Aegon's daughter. 😂😂😂 Rhaenyra losing just spelled more excuses to deter women from getting in power for generations. And that attitude just worsened the rights of women in general after that. Danaerys symbolises the return of the feminine power and magic in the world that the society had snuffed out.
Rhaenyra fatal flaw is her lack of Soft Power. She doesn’t understand diplomacy, public image or political wit. Her son died but it never occurred to her to paint Aemond as a Kinslayer, whereas Otto instantly saw the propaganda value of Blood and Cheese. Rhaenyra and Dameon both think dragons are all they need to rule. Of the Smallfolk she believes: “Their opinions are of no consequence.”
Shes nothing without the dragons. Danaery T was popular because she liberated slaves and people loved her even without the dragons she was a well liked figure in early seaons
@@gooby214 I know how she ends. I don't really like her. I think it was not good that Aegon iii watched. It traumatized him for life. I'm neutral in this ✌️
I am team black, but I have to admit that both in the book and show, Rhanerya would be a terrible queen. She was impetuous, arrogant, and petty and refused to listen to wise advice. Despite having kids with Harwin Strong, she clearly had no real affection for him, which is obvious from how she hardly reacted to his death. If she wanted an open marriage, she could have chosen a Velaryon, Targaryen or Celtigar to satisfy her "appetite" and the kids would have had Valyrian features. Talking about the kids, she put them in danger by sending them away from Dragonstone without real protection but blamed everybody else when they were harmed. Then there is the issue of the dragonseeds. She did not realise that, depending on their parentage, some of the dragonseeds may have a stronger claim to the throne than her. Ultimately, I think she wanted to be a monarch because she felt powerless as a woman in a medieval society, and she thought she would gain true power, autonomy and control. Which just shows how naive she really was.
Interesting points. Even though those were the same thoughts that everyone had during the intro of the Civil War, here is a question: What is a bad king and vice versa to a bad and good queen? Because the books are written from a biased point of view and also take in statements from three unreliable resources. On the show, we see how things are played and how they happen. Now, to the point of her not being a good queen? I say it comes from not only her but also the period that she was born in and the individuals in that time. Viserys, Otto Hand, Alicent, and Daemon. Viserys should’ve never been king in the first place, and I’m very certain that there were people who could take one look at him and knew right away he would never make an effective ruler of the seven kingdoms, should’ve never been king in the first place, and I’m very certain that there were people that could take one look at him and knew right away he would never make an effective ruler of the seven kingdoms. He was very indecisive, he was very slow to act, and he was quick to please everyone, he was the Aenys Targaryen of his time. he was very indecisive, and he was very slow to act, and he was quick to please everyone. Otto was already opposing her from the moment he suggested that she would be named heir to keep Damon away from the throne but also he was not a very trustworthy advisor. He already made her and Daemon and Corlys very wary of him, and he turned them into enemies, he didn’t even want to teach her the importance of the governance of ruling the kingdom. Alicent made questionable decisions, here and there, and more importantly, the audacity of her to order Reynera to send her baby to her bed chambers just to take a look at him right after giving birth which is very low. In my opinion, she is a dutiful queen, but the problem was, that she was contributing to the division within House Targaryen and her actions didn’t prevent the war from happening. Daemon was a terrible influence on her. She knew all along the type of person that he was, but she was drawn to him as he was just like her they burn fire, and they burn brighter. She begged her father many times to allow her to marry him therefore, it would combine his claim with her as he is a P or Targaryen, and that’s all she ever wanted but at the same time, he would have the power over her as well. As well as the lords, but I also want to point out that she made a huge stupid mistake in disregarding the wise words from Rhaenys and for sleeping with Criston Cole.
It was customary in the Middle Ages to take the baby to be presented to the king and queen. One as the highest authority as he wished to meet his grandson and she as the highest female authority and the third most important person in the kingdom as she also wished to meet her grandson and find out if he was a bastard. That RHaenyra had taken the decision to go herself meant no more than that she wished the queen to know that she could not speak of her children's bastardy as loudly as she did before or after with the king there.
This is more true for the books, show Rhaenyra is different and definitely more understandable as a person. In the show, yes Rhaenyra would’ve made a good queen before the war . The events of the war and loss of her children will undoubtedly change her . Also her being less likeable in the books can be chalked up to the book being written predominantly by supporters of the greens who’d want their side to be more sympathetic. Even in the books, I feel Rhaenyra would’ve unquestionably made a much better ruler than Aegon .
@@LauraGS564 Yes, the books may exaggerated some aspects but still no one can defend having 3 bastards with Harwin Strong. No matter what the books say, if she was a good ruler the dragons wouldn't extinct.
What makes a person a good ruler if he inherits a kingdom. Not that complicated as people think. Either make yourself so powerful that nobody can question you or your decissions and be seen as a God. The closer you are in power to those you rule over - the more your actions will be questions and put under microscope. So Obvious power that inspires fear, coupled with being dutiful in appearing as dutiful. You dont even have to be and no ruler actually is. its an act. You delegate duty to others while keeping an eye ofc demonstrating your power when somoene obviously does something wrong and you have to "perform your duty" and punish him in front of everyone to remind everyone. What makes a person a good ruler if he doesnt have a kingdom? Conquering one ofc, which is the harder part and once achieved unquestionable power you get automatically authority from that and once again dutifully making appearances pretending to be dutiful. Remember, people didnt even know who Aegon the Conqueror even was as a person. it wasnt important. Its nevermattered. They feared him so much because of his dragons and his demonstration of power that they dont even remember whether they were paying high taxes or not during his time. Ofc this being said it goes without saying that its also about respect. You show acts of respect toward your subjects which is seen as benevolence and they repay you with love or reverence. So: 1. Unquestionable authority thet comes with unquestionable power 2. Keeping up appearances to represent the crown and so people can be assured you are fulfilling your duty (because ruling over after all its a job). If you arent talented enough in decission making, you delegate to others more talented but always be there keeping an eye so you will always take credit 3. Respecting or even appearing to respect those you rule over. This goes long way. You dont need to show love to them but respect their ways. But never to the point of you being seen as weak and too eager to satisfy or oblige. You are the king and whenever it is your way or theirs - you have to show firmness and has to be your way. They have to know that its always gonna be your way if you insist so they may never question you. Lots of rulers in Westeros are seen unrealistically through the eyes of narrators and through the eyes of the maesters. So the maesters have an agenda so not very objective. But here is an objective ruler of our times. The USA. The USA has undisputed power over its domains. No other leader in the Western world, no other country even thinks to usurp their place. So Rhaenyra's place was question not because she was a woman but because her grip on power wasnt firm and she had challengers who tradition favored and who had the biggest dragon.
Apologies, everyone. The Daenerys video has been taken down due to copyright issues.
I am waiting for it again.
Here’s the thing, Viserys kind of set Rhaenyra up to fail. He made her heir but didn’t teach her how to rule (mostly because he didn’t truly understand how to rule), then he had true-born sons. Automatically, this would cause problems, problems which Viserys willfully didn’t see or thought he was above of. He cuddled Rhaenyra and taught her that she was also above rules and norms (which of course can be broken but most of the time they have to be subtly done as compared to the more outright way of Rhaenyra) (which also on its own is not a bad quality, but considering the society can cause problems for not only Rhaenyra herself, but the people around her as well). Rhaenyra’s learned from Viserys, who was lucky enough to reign during a peaceful time, but as we see, that kind of rule ultimately leads to war by inaction. Rhaenyra’s inaction is another contributor to the war, and it had deadly consequences for herself and her people.
Vicerys married her to a gay man. Yeah, that wouldn’t cause any problems. And corlys knew his son was gay and he probably should have said something. Did he?no.
Didn’t she not get the memo the vicerys died? No. And did sh not halt actions of war to keep the peace? Yes. Did she not go to war until after her son was killed by Aemond?
@@lemonadelemon1960Rhaenyra could have told Vicerys herself but she knew she couldn't control her lustful activities and made a deal you remember the duck and goose dialogue between Rhaenyra and laenor
@@abdulwahab558 At least she was honest. Something the world nowerdays lack and wonder why it goes to hell. Or even worse, not wonder that it goes to hell. People are following blindly literally every mainstream and wonder, when other people either say "no" or won't follow the mainstream. And what do those then do? They judge. Hiding behind prophets and saints and gods. As you mention this: Viserys should have married Laena. Instead, he caused a problem and left it to his daugher to solve it. And then you mock about, that Rhaenyra only took on the task and solved the problem. Your comment only proves, that this world still prefers male over female. Females could literally know the solutions to a bunch of problems of the world; and yet, men nowerdays would still want themselves above all. Even if they don't know how to solve the problems.
I agree on this, that Viserys set her up to failure. She doubted her way when she asked him, if he believed the song of Ice and Fire. She held on to him and this path because of the promise she made to him. Rhaenys was quite about right, when she told Rhaenyra, that when her father gets remarried and has sons, she will be replaced. She was the living proof, by not being named Queen, as she should have been. Basically a pretty redicoulous system. Women give birth to children, male and female, risk their lives, only that men can destroy what women began: life.
I like Rhanerya but she was terrible at politics and wasn't nearly as smart as a monarch should be. Honestly, Jace, even as a teenager, would have made better decisions as a ruler.
Why I don't like Rhaenyra's faction boils down to one thing: they are the most extreme representation of Targaryen exceptionism. They feel entitled to do what they want and feel that they do not have to face the repercussions. We know this from the brothel scene with Daemon where he was encouraging Rhaenyra to do whatever she wants, to fuck whomever she wants. They miss the part where they live in a society held together by rules, both codified and unspoken, and if they want to change that, they can't just expect the world to lay down for them. No one wants to have a ruler that can't be held accountable for their mess and that's what Rhaenyra and her faction represents.
but a men can do it... we saw that many men had bastards. I dom't think this is a reason to hate her at least not just her, be fair and hate everyone who those this.
the problem with your premise is that the greatest ruler of the seven kingdoms invented targaryen exceptionalism to justify in*cest. the conciliator basically said, we are targaryens and we do as we please like marry our own close kin. he opposed the faith of the seven head on by creating essentially his own rules which the faith has to capitulate to. yes, the targaryens definitely expected the world to lay down for them, and westeros actually liked this king who refused to be held accountable for his and his family's marriage practice that is an abomination to the "lesser" westerosi.
@@maggyfrogyeah but that law is only to allow targ incest marriages. It does not give Targ Princesses leave to act however they please. If that's true then Jaehaerys would have no problem with Saera's actions. But he didn't, and exiled Saera from Westeros. And Rhaenyra is doing the same thing as Saera did, but 10x worse cuz she's the damn heir to the throne.
And if Targs are allowed to so whatever they want with no consequence, then by default Rhaenyra would've faced no challenge. But she did. Vaemond challenged her for Driftmark and the people stormed the Dragonpit because she thought she could do whatever she wanted because she was Queen, regardless of how much the smallfolk were suffering. So no, the Targaryens can't do willy nilly, or else even Aerys II would continue to rule unchallenged despite being more deranged than Maegor.
@@hmm_1228
my point is that, so long as the targs had dragons and with the right talent in diplomatic scheming, westeros would have allowed them to get away with being exempted from a lot of rules.
jaehaerys disowning his own daughter has nothing to do with pleasing the realm as far as optics. he did it because honestly he was a bad father. most other lords also deal with problematic children but they usually try to fix their issues within their house. for example, hoster tully dealt with lysa's rebellious teen years. viserys also dealt with rhaenyra the best he could. if rickard stark ever thought of the possibility that lyanna went willingly with rhaegar, he most definitely still tried to fix it without throwing lyanna under the bus and even died for her honor. doran martell deals with arianne's excursions without shaming her in front of the realm.
my point is that jaehaerys never even tried to express a drop of empathy for saera. if ned stark can find it in him to indulge arya not wanting to be a lady but a fighter, jaehaerys the concilliator should have made an effort to actually care about his kids as well.
@@maggyfrog I think that's mostly the issue with having too many kids in general. But unfortunately Saera's scandal was a public one and couldn't be buried under the rug anymore so Jaehaerys had to respond publicly not only to appease his own anger but everyone else's sensibilities. As for Arianne, that's Doran's heir, he has to deal with her excursions in private to protect the prestige of House Martell. Rickard died for Lyannas honour without the knowledge though, if he and Brandon knew I think he would handle the situation differently and speak to Robert about it before going to the Mad King. Saera is not Jaehaerys' heir and sadly he could afford to lose her since he's got other kids at the time.
Viserys is just a blind bat when it comes to Rhaenyra. Heirs have been disinherited for less and she did many questionable things even before the Strong children. So idk how Viserys is doing the best he could honestly. He just buries his head in the sand and hopes the problem goes away or solves itself, which is what he does a lot of the time.
She wanted to be the ruler for the sake of being the ruler, not for the people, but for herself
You could say this about most ruleres of Westeros. Do Aegon or Aemond care anymore about the people?
@@STARK0181 Criticizing one side does not serve as a compliment to the other.
That being said, Aegon does show signs of caring for the people as they are the first he's ever shown love from, he just doesn't know how to express it and in times of peace he could become a decent king (with a lot of work). Establishing this was the whole point of the guy wanting his sheep back.
Aemond, too, seems a strong candidate for becoming a good king who'd lead his people well in times of peace, albeit a little unhinged. He's well studied, understand politics and could provide a solid role model. Then again, he has the marking of Daemon which could result in tyranny, but that's neither here nor there really.
Sure, both of them are still selfish in their own rights, but they display better marks of competence than Rhaenyra "I'm the heir, hur dur" ever did.
The dance was started by Rhaenyra. If she had even a shred of empathy for the people she wouldn't have started it since a lot of civilians died for her selfishness. Innocents dead because "I wanna sit on the throne, I deserve it!"
@@shadedusk7831 alright so a rapist man who has bastard children fighting each other in the pits cares more about the smallfolk than rhaenyra? yeah fucking right. just admit you're sexist and move on.
the maesters are also biased against book rhaenyra most of the stuff she did that was bad was likely fabricated to look bad on purpose.
the dance was also NOT started by rhaenyra. It was started by alicent and otto, have we been watching the same show?? her throne was literally usurped mate. how do we know it was usurped? well thats easy. the greens locked down the castle and have been scheming for months behind everyones backs, that doesnt sound like they thought they were in the right at all, they knew they were usurping and they did it anyway.
@@shadedusk7831 Aegon cared for his people by giving them rape babies
@@shadedusk7831your stupid comment she’d like wine, damm and you commented even when episode 6 is already out, crazy
in the dance of the dragons, there is not a single person who can be a good ruler. That's why dragons extinct...
Rhaenys? House Velaryon had more dragons than house Targaryen and still never attempted to go to war with the crown. They weren’t intimidated by the thought of war (the Step Stones and Rooks rest) yet they respected their distant family members and put the state of the realm above their desire for power.
Rhaenys demonstrated political understanding yet would be willing to lay her life on the line for duty. She was a powerhouse of a women. Better than most kings.
Rhaenys would be better!@@joshuaadams6565
Yeah, maybe Rhaenys....@@joshuaadams6565
@@joshuaadams6565But this is still Westeros and the worst part is that it was before Daenerys is born. They would never accept her in the throne, even with Corly Velaryon on her side
@@joshuaadams6565 I have always told people that. Tbf I even fail to understand what Viserys motivations were.
Everyone's forgetting Daeron, Viserys sired three legitimate sons.
I won't fault her for having bastards, every ruler did. I will fault her for lying about the fact that they are bastards and making everyone else part of that lie (there are 5 fingers, not four type of situation). She also sought to place one of her bastards as heir to seastone. Her final sin is Treason, by lying to her father she also lied to the king, the king who had given her leave to choose a husband, which she failed to do, only to carry on an affair with a man she had initially turned down. She abandoned the path of honesty, she could have lagitimized her Bastards and made them heirs but she didn't, she could have chosen strong at the get go but she didn't, everything was about cheap thrills and everyone else paid the price.
@@stephenjames2159 You mean Heir to Driftmark and Lord of the Tides. The Seastone Chair is the lord of the Iron Islands.
@@stephenjames2159 Seastone? This ain't Pyke. What is dead may never die.
@@stephenjames2159King Viserys 100% knew that the boys were not velaryons in the show but he saw them as the children of his daughter and her husband. He saw no issue in their illegitimacy because they had Targaryen blood in them which was what mattered to them.
@@ElethuMdleleni Cool story but he didn't act and it doesn't change the lie.
Please note also that in the show, Viserys REPEATEDLY pointed out his vivid dreams of having a son named Aegon to ascend him, wearing the conqueror’s crown. Him naming Rhaenyra as heir opposed that dream in many ways and proved his weakness even he cannot trust his so called “dragon dreams”.
Signs of the Targaryen madness. Just with all the esoteric BS about witches, Alys Rivers dished Daemon a poisoned drink, needs no magic for that at all.
@@a.m.pietroschek1972 This is a world with active functioning magic and dragons. We see people warging and greenseeing well after dragons have died and magic supposedly with them and you call it esoteric BS. There's evidence for it in the main story my guy, ASOIAF is a 'realistic' fantasy, but fantasy nonetheless.
That was Aegon the conqueror's prophecy about the long winter and that from his blood will come the one who will unite the realm to protect it from what's beyond the wall...Basically what happens in game of thrones. So it's about the future...what you are saying is exactly what Alicent thought and hence they usurped the throne lol
@@a.m.pietroschek1972 You are aware there is magic even in ASOIAF times, ye? And there are people who can use it like the warlocks in Essos, some sorcerers and priests on both continents, the Red Witch (although she claims it's the power of her god, not hers), Thoros of Myr (magic flaming sword), etc.? How about the fact that Catelyn Stark, the mighty Karen of the North is a fucking ZOMBIE, a literal undead walking around since the Red Wedding? There are also other famous cases like what happened to Aerea Targaryen and Balerion on their little holiday over in Old Valyria. And speaking of Old Valyria, it wasn't rule by just dragonriders. Those very same dragonlords were actually also blood mages (although Targaryens weren't blood mages, but neither they were a powerful house back in those times), which Viserys mentions in the show, by the way. And not to forget Others/White Walkers and all of the magic connected to that.
So yeah, Westeros/ASOIAF is full of magic, we just don't directly see it that often apart from a few characters that the main characters interact with.
It wasn't about Aegon though. Uts just called Aegon the conquerors dream
Now that I think about it, I realize Rhaenyra has never really done anything to SERVE the Realm throughout all the time Viserys was alive. The only thing that comes close is her sitting in Council meetings and MAYBE helping in decision making. We don’t even get any specifics of what she did or what she accomplished. More likely than not, she probably just did minor contributions (otherwise we would have heard about her great accomplishments).
She gave more problems to her succession because of her scandal with Daemon and her 3 bastards. Instead of trying to solidify her claim, it’s like she purposefully just set herself up to fail because she thinks she can get away with it. She’s now facing the consequences.
she didn't really have a choice with the children thing. laenor is gay and cannot provide children. otto prolly knew abt this.
My dear, Rhaenyra’s story is a tragedy because she was set up for failure…. No matter what decision she made, everyone would not be happy about it…..
I blame Viserys personally…. It was a very open secret that Laenor would not be able to give her children… and as Heir, children was her responsibility and those children had to come from somewhere…. If she didn’t have kids with Hardin, they’d still say she’s shouldn’t be heir because she’s barren….. even if her children were legitimate, they’d probably say she told someone that looked like Laenor or that it’s Corlys’ child or bring up some other bullshit excuse….
Every time she tried to make moves as heir, she was undermined by Alicent, Otto when he was there and her own Father… I mean, why was she still cupbearer as heir??…. Not to mention, the tour…..
Every decision Viserys made was viewed as he was going to sell her off somewhere…..
Rhaenyra was basically being entangled in the mess of her family, trying to clean them up and then being blamed for everything from Daemon, to the Valeryons and to her father
That’s what makes her story tragic….
Btw, for anyone saying that she would have slept with someone who looked like Laenor… who do you want her to sleep with?
Corlys??…. Rhaenys would skin her alive
Or Vaemond???… we all know how greedy he was
Face it, She didn’t just sleep with Harwin just because…. She took someone she could trust not to be in situation where she could be blackmailed….
I find it soooo strange that everyone compares Alicent to Cersei when Rhaenerya is a very one to one match with Cersei and Alicent as actually far more akin to Catelyn.
Cersei and Rhaenrya:
- Both have 3 bastard children who look nothing like their alleged fathers and yet are passed off as legitimate heirs
- Is known to shirk duty and responsibility in favour of sexual escapades
- Has incestous relationships with 2 men in their family
- Thinks they are a lot smarter than they actually are which often leads them into bad situations
Catelyn and Alicent
- fights to make her son King after the death of her husband
- woman who often finds herself sitting at the political table to make decision's with or about her son
- woman who dutifully follows the faith of the seven
- Truely loves her husband (although it's platonic for Alicent and more of a show thing.)
Alicent and Cersei
- Married a King
- Portrayed negatively by the show
Lmao u haven't seen Season 2 where Alicent basically starts a war cause of envy and doesn't follow the faith and wears her faith regalia less.
cersei and rhaenyra both have a son called joffrey :D
Cersei, negatively portrayed in the show? Are you kidding me? In the books she is a freaking dumb lunatic. Any of the humanizing scenes of her are not present in the book. I don't know what books you read, but I can tell you never read A Feast for Crows.
I always wondered what made Viserys think that after how he gained the throne people were going to support Rhaenyra’s claim, specially because she had 3 male brothers in contrast to Rhaenys who was the only child of her father with no siblings at all. I believe Rhaenys would have made an excellent queen.
Pd. I know she had support from some major houses but the war was meant to happen somehow.
yeah, the inheritance system hadn't even been, the heir is whoever the king says it is but had always been male preference primogenitor.
The Targaryen were leech Lords, landlords of a foreign people. Refusing to interact or breed with them to keep their blood pure from the commons. Jaehaerys the conciliator was the first true ruler of a people and not some landlord with a dragon
Except for his doctrine of exceptionalism. I don't like that one bit.
interesting take cosidering it was Jaehaerys that invented and legalised "Targaryan exceptionalism" forcing the fate to accept that targaryans are above other people and the incest that they commit is legal and just
Jaehaerys also didn't do much other than rule in a great time afther his ancestors had done most of the killing and disposed of the strongest enemies
he was smart yes but so was aegon who managed far greater feats than j ever did
Aegeon was also accepted and respected by most of the realm for he did conquer and did burn his enemies but he also knew when to show mercy and negotiate, to collect armies and unite people ander his banner
these aren't things you can do just with a dragon
he did conquer and unite 6/7 kingdoms that were always waging war against eachother and created a dynasty that lasted for many hundreds of years
I agree with everything you said. Rhaenyra was always unfit to rule. I remember feeling the same way after I read Fire and Blood, even though the Greens weren't exactly the best people in the world either. Rhaenyra just always came across as a whiny, spoilt brat to me in the book, and I could tell that her ambitions for the throne weren't based on a sense of duty (e.g. like Stannis, for example). She was always just selfish and ruthless, though the show has certainly whitewashed these aspects of her personality.
The book is also written mostly by green supporters so it’s understandable why they would want to vilify Rhaenyra more to make their side more sympathetic.
I can understand that they’d whitewash all the characters in the first season. They want to build a character arc for them. Even though they were whitewashed I still saw viewers complaining that they weren’t like the honourable “perfect” Starks from GOT. It’s like some people can’t handle immoral characters.
Book Alicent left Viserys body to rot for weeks on end.
Book Aegon was impregnating hand maidens and sleeping with under age children.
Book Aemond wasn’t bullied or teased for not having a dragon.
They whitewashed all the characters. Idk why people focus on Rhaenyra the most.
So? She still had done that mistakes...@@mackmitchell94
@@mackmitchell94 Nonsense. Just excuses from Rahenyra simps in denial. None of the Greens were written as better people, while the Blacks were written as better. Especially the so called "Lads"...the cringe shonen anime kids.
@@gooby214 lmao who the fuck are you ?
I'll admit my first watch of the show I was quite empty headed and didn’t question anyone's motives and actions until my second vieweing, but I do remember being confused because Rhaenyra still had the same routine as before she was named the heir, now that she is to be queen shouldn’t she be taught law and how to rule? I found that odd but just kept watching since I really like the show
Viserys had 3 trueborn sons.
Even the Iron Throne rejects her in the books. Every ruler who gets cut by the throne is unworthy.
I think this is more like a superstition and confirmation bias. I am pretty sure that the huge chair made of sharp metal cut everyone but the mediveal like people of Westeros would happily use this against those who they seemed unfit.
Aegon the Conqueror got cut
@@1234billionspl3ndjdpotatoes this means that he is unworthy of the kingdom that he himself created. oh well :(
its a myth rather than something.then again, you can theorize that a man who cannot get cut by sitting on a throne of swords is very careful...
@@1234billionspl3ndjdpotatoeshe did not lol 😂😂
Anyone who can't see that Otto is the best option for the realm, doesn't understand the game of thrones
IDK if youre being sarcastic but I wholeheartedly believe this. Let the dude have his blood on the throne and he would take them out of the medieval period.
@@rexibhazoboa7097 Not sarcasm
I thought I was the only one that liked Otto.
@@blasianpersuasion85 I do too
He is not. He preys on retards & losers, the real option would mean he earns leadership of the kings from seven kingdoms by outmatching them.
The people who blindly support Rhaenyra (team black) tend to be the most casual of fans, it’s mainly just people who watched the show first. It’s the same people who defend Dany burning an entire city down for no reason (and hate Jon) while in the same breath calling the writing bad and saying she wouldn’t do it.
The greens have the more logical fan base by a country mile, and those who don’t choose a side period tend to be even more based.
Brother, we are all Damon ❤❤❤❤❤
The only good guy was the Sheperd. Guy pulled a storming of the Bastille but against fire breathing giant lizards. Based as fuck. All nobles are leeches.
Not really, both sides of the fandom are horrible. I’ve came across lots of TG Stan’s that like Daenerys and think she also did nothing wrong in S8 EP5. I’ve seen TG Stan’s state Dyanna was lying about being raped by Aegon, then stating that she deserved, saying she should be grateful, and wish they were a rape victim like her, etc. I don’t understand people like you like to act things are one-sided, when it’s obviously not this way.
Lol no side is logical. Both sides have done horrible questionable things and none of them are saints. But at the end of the day it's just a fictional show so yea we all take sides blindly
@@FoxxyFatima "I’ve seen TG Stan’s state Dyanna was lying about being raped by Aegon, then stating that she deserved, saying she should be grateful, and wish they were a rape victim like her, etc" lol what? ive never seen this once uttered freakin anywhere XD?! to say that those ppl are a minority would be a laughable understatement, so far most of what im saying are brainless politically obsessed blacks fans.
I agree. This shows how well King George VI prepared his oldest daughter well to be Queen Elizabeth II, his heir. Elizabeth II proven herself why she is a worthy successor compared to Rhaenyra in the House of the Dragon.
Good comparison.
Elizabeth was also very complicit in colonial warcrimes like her family if that's what you mean
@@atlantistalamantes9262 Yes but off topic.
@@atlantistalamantes9262 Youre a literal witch..
Its a lot easier when you don't actually rule (as the house of Windsor currently does not and never did during the reigns of George VI or Elizabeth II). Whereas, even under Medieval European standards, the Targaryen's rule with absolutism that would make Louis 14'th green with envy. When so much power is concentrated in one individual, even minor screw-ups can have massive consequences.
I looked this up after wondering why people are praising her and acting like she's some great leader. Whether it's the show or the books, she's just awful and completely incompetent. It's almost as if she always makes the worst possible choices. One thing we can say for Danny, at least she was decisive; if a bit too harsh and naive at times. Rhaenyra and her mismanagement of Daemon alone is horrifically bad.
Aegon wasn't any better though
@@emmanueloluwatobi138 Aegon would just be Robert before Robert. The realm will survive.
@@liamjm9278 Aegon was nothing like Robert lol, it's even insulting to think Aegon would be like Robert
@@liamjm9278 Robert wasn't a great king, though. At best, he was a less disruptive version of Aegon IV.
@@kimdreyer4970 Peace is peace.
Dany isn’t entitled like Rhaenyra. She won her own battles and advanced to rule mereen. She also grew her army and her fleet. Yes she had a council, but every leader does.
Dany in the books is more subtlety entitled, as in she thinks that the IT deserves to be hers, and while she definitely has a claim, Robert won it through conquest-the same way Aegon did way back when. She’s entitled in the way an indoctrinated child is, because that’s what she is, an indoctrinated child who believes her family deserves to rule because of their history with dragons.
I am not a fan of Daenerys but Rhaenyra made me appreciate her more. Rhaenyra has to be the worst main character in fiction with bias naration of the show runner.
@@kingmisogyny1852 I noticed that bias in episode 3 with how that White stag shot was filmed. Made it seem like rheanyra was the rightful heir. But then I thought - hoped really - that the writers were just being clever. That the scene was actually showing Rheanyra's thought process and not an objective view of the situation. If this is so, I can bypass all the many many questionable directions the show went in. But the show would need to successufly show near the end that all the characters (even the ones they put a positive light on) are trash. And the audience needs to be convinced. Because the amount of people who truly believe in Rheanyra is worrisome.
@@rexibhazoboa7097| Because she is the right heir, as she literally named so by her father. That’s why we were shown the White stag. Please tell me you don’t expect people support a rapist, that’s much more concerning than supporting a woman, who’s birthright was stolen from on account of her gender, for the most part. Accept it.
@@FoxxyFatima if thats how you see it...
Couldnt agree more with ur statement. I only chose the greens because they know how to manage a kingdom unlike Rhaenyra given she gave the Greens 6 YEARS TO RULE.
Rt for all her good heart says she will create a new order but does nothing to help herself, her children, her relationship and image with the people over the course of when she is named heir.
1. Has 3 obvious bastards
2, which weakens Rt claims n creates succession crisis
3. Supports a law that mutilates people( it’s TREASON TO TALK ABOUT MY TREASON)
4. Marries a man who was DENOUNCED as Heir which is the SOLE REASON y she was named heir in the first place.
5. Encourages her uncle publicly in FRONT OF HER FUTURE IN LAWS n help say that rumor was TRUE in episode 5.
6. Makes EVERYONE believe she killed her HUSBAND INCLUDING HER FOMER IN LAWS.
7 and 8 Marries a man who killed his FIRST WIFE AND IS NOT ALLOWED IN THE VALE WHICH IS ONR OF THE SIX KINGDOMS SHE WILL GOVERN N NEED SUPPORT IN THE UPCOMING WAR.
9. Didn’t visit her father for 6 years
10. Didn’t visit king landing for 6 years the place she will rule later.
11. Let greens RULE THE KINGDOM FOR 6 years
12. Didn’t build any alliances for 6 years on dragonstone.
13. trying to USURP THE DRIFTMART THRONE
14 and 15 last minute marriage proposals that were denied by Alicent and Rhaenys
16. Advocated for the torture of her brother in episode 7
17. Didn’t visit her father until she needed something from him a man who is loosing body parts by the minute.
18. Didnt know who her Allies were before she went to war.
19. Sleep with men knowing if they r caught they will be tortured n killed. (Criston +HARWIN)
20. Sent her sons REMINDER LETTERS to the LORDS SHE WILL NEED TO MAKE ALLIANCES
21. Offered NOTHING IN RETURN FOR THE ALLIANCES / EMPTY HANDS.
Rt comes with to much baggage as an heir while Aegon faults are not publicly known and lets be honest Aegon will be doing what he and Rhaenyra was doing for the last 6 years lets Otto, Alicent, and the rest of the council do the work lolre of Westeros. I only chose the greens because they know how to manage a kingdom unlike Rhaenyra given she gave the Greens 6 YEARS TO RULE.
3. Alicent also wanted to take out Lucerys’ eye. So by that logic, so she also supports that. It’s even more impactful for her side, since she was the queen.
4. How does that matter?
7&8. Nobody knows Daemon killed Rhea, only her cousin. If you’re gonna apply this to him, apply it to Aegon, as well since, only a few people know about his sexual predatory history and his visitations to the child fighting pits.
10. Heirs of the Irone Throne take up residence on the island. We hear of this with Rhaegar, as he moved himself; Elia; and their children there.
13. She didn’t usurp the Driftwood throne, at all. Corlys never named Baela and Rhaena as heirs, only Luke (and Joff). Baela and Rhaena are Targaryens and are children of the second born child of the Lord of Driftmark. This makes no sense.
14&15. How was it last minute? Rhaenys literally accepted the proposal, so let’s not lie here.
The hand and regent still have more power and influence than the princess and heir to the throne, wether she was present or not. We see this in S1 EP 3.
TG essentially let the smallfolk of KL starve, while they made sure lamb was delivered to them.
Rhaenyra also was the ruling Lady of Dragonstone, so she has experience.
@@FoxxyFatima Alicent ONLY wanted revenge after Luke was not punished for taking aemond eye and it was in that moment that she wanted Luke eye and its not treason to ask for that n that was a moment that she instantly regretted.
Rhaenyra supports that law because it immediately defends her from the fact that she was committing high treason which is very bad for the CURRENT HEIR. One women wants revenge in the 1 moment on 1 person during a stressful situation and felt bad afterward…The other women however uses this law to defend her constant mistakes and accepts the mutilation of ANYONE who dares speak for the next 6 years…..
Truth does not matter only perception, the perception is daemon killed his wife and because how he treated her he was kicked out of the vale. When the CURRENT heir marries a man who was DENOUNCED as heir its incredible dangerous and politically stupid on the current heir.
Yes she was planning on it. If rhaenys didn’t agree with the proposal and if corlys died Rhaenyra and the king would be usurping the drift mart throne away from rhaenys and vaemond…Its usurping
“How was it last minute?”……… Ur joking right rhaenyra always proposes marriage when her back is turned to regain some level of control for herself….rewatch episode 8 again n tell me how is that proposal aint a desperate last minute attempt.
“TG essentially let the smallfolk of KL starve, while they made sure lamb was delivered to them.” U mean TEAM BLACK was STARVING the people in season 2 with the blockade.
“Rhaenyra also was the ruling Lady of Dragonstone, so she has experience.” Experience in what? She was a stay at home mom for 6 years on an island with servants and her family with no big population. What exactly is Rhaneyra experience?
I can make a list of how bad aegon is but the problem is though rhaenyra is half of aegon age and she has made more grave mistakes then him and from all ive written down its shows y she shouldn’t rule over him.
@@FoxxyFatima ur comment got repeated twice btw
@@jjosifovic The fact that you did not mention psycho aemond ready to kill jace lol
@@akiwaaaa First i aint saying the greens aint did nothing wrong but the blacks caused most of the issues that they themselves created.
I think u forgot to mention that psycho did nothing wrong but claimed a dragon n then he was jumped by 4 other kids. N when he pushed back he grabbed a rock he then insulted jace then he lowered the rock n jace decides to pull a knife.
go to my earlier comments n tell im wrong with what i stated.
If Viserys truly prepared her, she would be. But right now, it seems impossible.
He tried he gave her good teachers but refused to learn she is a bad student alysane targaryen another woman she didn't have any teachers because she was a 5 th child but she is a better ruler then rhaneyra
Another excuse always blame everyone but not herself. 😊
It shows that viserys was not a good ruler either
viserys made a huge mistake of not even training her the moment he decided to name her heir...it's stupidity on top of stupidity on his part. he should know what will happen after he dies, but he had no plan AT ALL to lift her up beyond just the claim that he pronounced her as his heir. it's so unforgivably stupid of him to completely forgot the training part...she had no allies by the time he died.
@@ecesuasici7321 he wasn't that bad but he's stubbornly weak minded. he is a peaceful king, which is good but he lacks the savviness to plot and scheme to ensure his daughter is well respected and well connected among the great houses. he foolishly think just his proclamation of her as his heir is sufficient.
Great analysis! While watching the vid, Alicent’s infamous line came to my mind, “Where is duty? Where is sacrifice? It’s trampled under your pretty foot again.”
Her line basically coincides with what you said in 5:41, “What I see in Rhaenyra is an entitled woman who prioritizes her own interests over that of the Realm.”
What has Rhaenyra ever done for the Realm as heir, really? Even as a child, she’s made the wrong choices time and again-and she just expects everyone to put it under the rug because she’s the princess. That’s definitely not what’s happening in hotd now. She’s paying the price of her mistakes more and more.
Come to think of it, Alicent has done more for the Realm-ruling in Viserys’ stead when he was gravely ill and being active in politics. Sure, Alicent is facing troubles of her own in S2 (which are also partly her fault). But if we were to talk about duty between Rhaenyra and Alicent…I’d have to say that it’s Alicent who has done a lot more for the Realm throughout the years.
The only time Rhaenyra did something for the Realm was (SPOILER ‼️‼️) that time in season 2 episode 6 where she gave food to King’s Landing. Again, for her own interest since she plans on winning the war. Plus, it wasn’t even her idea since it came from Mysaria.
She was the one who caused the food shortage in the first place. It's pure propaganda (a very smart one, I have to say) that you create a problem for the common people and the common people will blame their immediate ruler then you come up with a solution to the problem you had caused and become a messiah-figure.
@@halloween42 So true.
Oh wow a child makes wrong decisions 😂 You made none when u were a kid right with your own responsibilities? There's so much to criticize Rhaenyra for but that point is 🤡
5:37 a critical difference between Rhae and Aegon. Aegon has a ton of similarities to Robert although he seems to have a better relationship with his brother than Robert.
Did Robert go around assaulting his maids 🤔
This didn't age well
@@BrunaSilva-nz2if yep. Aegon has a worse relationship with his brother but he was the MVP OF S2
Weird, Aegon was blamed for NOT practicing & studying (like Aemond did), but the same viewers consider the mistakes of Rhaenyra to be meaningless & harmless??? She was dumb enough to risk her future for a cheap-shot brothel visit. She demands instead of DOING anything to reach the goals. She neither trains the dragonriders (not of Pern), nor does ANYTHING royal or pro-house Targaryen. It COULD be a depiction of the madness that is subtly running in ALL the Targaryen bloodline.
In the show, Rhaenyra is portrayed very sympathetically by the script and has the benefit of being well acted by Alcock and especially D’Arcy. It’s hard to be against someone who (1) is the main protagonist, (2) takes down a boar and sees the white stag we’re told is related to kingship, (3) has children by another man only after it turns out that her husband is too gay to impregnate her, (4) does that courageous march to Alicent after giving birth, and (5) was the catalyst for the most powerful tv scene in years where Visereys taking the iron throne the last time. None of that would necessarily make Rhaenyra a good queen but show-watchers forgiving her things they don’t forgive Aegon is unavoidable.
@@HankMB| Why would people feel any announce of sympathy for a rapist?
Rhaenyra was the ruling Lady of Dragonstone, so she has much more experience with ruling than Aegon. While she did visit that whore house, Corlys still accepted the marriage proposal from Viserys.
@@FoxxyFatima I mean, yeah, making Aegon a POS does a lot of it too. But that’s just part of the show, not in Fire and Blood.
The show doesn't even make sense sometimes. It's just fanfiction for fire and blood. Rhaenys will say dumb shit like the council should respect Rhaenyra because she wears Jaehaerys crown. She says that as if it matters, as if Jaehaerys would've supported Rhaenyra. The show is bad for deciding for the viewers who they want to believe is right. No one is right but the green side in the books were fighting for laws to be followed, they fighting so the ruling monarch and the people would have checks and balances. The show changed things to make the black side more favorable while at the same time they purposely made up things to make the greens seem like they're all villains. Daemon is a pedo in the books and a man who murdered small folks for fun. But they don't show that. Instead they make Aegon a rapist when at worst, Aegon was a drunk unfaithful to his wife because he didn't want to marry his sister.
rhaenyra is not fit to be queen. I never seen any reason to root for her. Both aegon ang rhaenyra is not fit to rule. She is the first woman to be the heir. So she should prove herself and pave the way to next future queens. But she just do whatever she like
As much as I like Viserys, he didn't do a good job raising Rhaenyra or Aegon to be good rulers. He really should have been there for them in their youth, when they were able to be molded into what a ruler should be. In fact, him declaring Rhaenyra the heir was a mistake when the possibility of remarrying and having a son was always there.
A very well thought out video. Fans of the show tries to pretend that Rhaenyra is some “woman boss” where critics and dislikers dislike her because she’s solely a woman when the show is showing that neither party had any right to sit on the throne.
It's crazy how different book and show renerya are. I've always been team green, but this just proves to me that the show is trying to push a
Blacks -good, Greens-evil story. Also this seems to prove that they are making all the women, except Helena (from what i understand, Helena even in the books, was pretty much the only non-morally gray character in this story), the good guys, and all the men the bad guys in the show.
Rhaenys, The Queen who never be was the Right one
The grandma who got MELEYS killed!!! 😭
Nah she killed hundreds of peasants in the dragon pit, which the show glosses over for some reason. Preaching about peace but then does that.
@@Em35nycDid it happen in the book?
@@falconeshield no! Show invention.
She never had a claim to the throne. The dispute was for her son. That's why she got the nickname.
It's good to find someone else on the internet with some common sense
*TEAM*
*GREEN*
*FOREVER*
Aemond is my king!
@@maedre1759 My man!
Aegon the second is the first male heir of viserys and the rightful king. But yeah..TEAM GREEN ALL THE WAY.
Even though in the show they tried to make the character "nicer", I never thought she was "good". On the other hand, Alicent went through rough times and she's motivated by her morals (questionable or not), so I have a TON more simpathy for her than Rhaenyra.
aemond could have been the next jahaerys.
Viserys should have changed the succession as soon as Aegon was born. He had long wanted to have a son and the realm also wanted it. What was the point of remarrying then?
True. Aegon would be incompetent but enough to maintain peace.
Rhaenyra as heir was a disaster right after she tried to pass Jace of as trueborn Viserys should have disowned her and after she followed that by having two other bastards sons well. Viserys was not a good king himself a blinded himself to his daughters misdeeds. And to follow that up by Leanors suspicious death too boot. She would never have made a good Queen her side had no one that k re how to run a relam her closest advisers were Deamon that had run from ever form of responsibility and Corlys that had not sat the small council in years.
in my opinion, jace is trueborn since laenor had no need to acknowledge him because HE IS HIS son, to legitimate a bastard he had to be known as one but laenor never raised his voice be it in the show or books because there's no DNA test to even begin with. jace would've made such a good king, but i guess the iron throne never let a dark haired targaryens to rule.
@@_lilactears4900so your argument is because noone can disprove otherwise then its fine, dude that's not an argument thats like saying its fine that oj got away with murder.
@@_lilactears4900your opinion is irrelevant to the fact-Jace was illegitimate, regardless of what Laenor, Corlys, or Viserys said. It's the reality of the situation. Rhaenyra had bastards. She passed these bastards off as legitimate heirs. She, Laenor, and Harwin committed treason and Viserys enabled them.
@@khfan4life365 Do Rhaenyra's children not have the blood of the dragon? That seems to be the most important point in the whole passing the throne business or they would have simply done things in the Roman way and selected a new ruler from the military generals or an adopted child or nephew. Sir Laenor made his choice and Rhaenyra made hers for the sake of stability in the kingdom that demanded heirs from the heir apparent. You people need to get over the whole bastard situation the only person who should be complaining is Laenor because his Valeryon blood did not pass on.
@@Tikka143 The Strong bastards got cradle eggs because Rhaenyra and Viserys were scared since it was obvious they were bastards. Jace, the first bastard, was born when Daeron, the last Targtower, was born. That's why Daeron was the only Targtower, sans Aegon's and Helaena's kids, who got cradle eggs, and Aegon, Helena and Aemond didn't.
Viserys did the opposite of legitimizing them. He insisted they were *definitely* trueborn. The same guy who said "tongues will not change the succession; let them wag." repeatedly threatened to de-tongue anyone who "wagged" about the Strong boys because he knew it was true, but he didn’t have the backbone to punish Rhaenyra. Viserys was 90% responsible for the Dance.
Laenor claiming them as his children doesn't make them legitimate. Just makes it a lot harder to argue. Had he stayed in King's Landing, the Strong boys' position would actually be better. Their claim depended on being Laenor’s trueborn children with Rhaenyra. That’s why Rhaenyra making him disappear was stupid and pretty much assured a civil war.
One of the things I liked about Fire and Blood that I don't like about HotD is that the former isn't trying to spread propaganda for one side, it gives the raw cold truth about both sides. It's adaptation however is clearly shilling for the Blacks
Really? I thought Fire and Blood was written by the greens to make the black seem worse.
And even then the show does show us better sides of the greens, because Aemond was portrayed as a bit more crazy, but in the show it displays him killing Luke as a rash and stupid manslaughtering act rather than murder. And Rhanerya killing Laenor was just an act.
And I think (not hundred percent sure) George said that the show is more accurate than the books and I think even showrunners said that it's a more accurate depiction of the Dance of the Dragons.
@@absab2899 No, George said show is different than book canon. It was the writers trying to say 'this is more accurate' but George shut that down, though he does enjoy some of the changes, like Viserys who was played so well by the actor.
WOW, I havent seen all of your video, but they resonate so much how I think. I also read the book and you describe her exactly as she came to be. You could see even in her youth she was careless and not fulfilling her duty, but not wanting anything to do with it, yet wanting power. Your video is so empowering for me, because thats exactly what I saw of her since season 1 and quite dislike how ppl around me judge her in favor all the time, while she was litterally being full of herself and lying and trying to shut truth... about her bastards and among other things.
You are the only person who actually told the truth ❤love the video
Finally, someone is criticizing Viserys. His inaction was the cause of all this. I don't get why folks are saying he was their best character of S1
Indeed, that Guy guaranteed a civil war due to his own Actions
@@ottersirotten4290Viserys do take action, but Rhaenyra is just too much of a brat
Instead of actually listen she is trying to argue with her father all the time, she is extremely difficult
If she could just be patient, Daeron, Viserys 3rd son will make the perfect King
@@dotaheaven633 Granted Rheanera is a spoiled Brat and completely unsiuted for any Role of Authority and he did made her his Cupbearer in the desperat Hope She will learn ANYTHING and occasionally tried to talk Sense into her, but thats far to little.
Worse of all however was him fathering legitimate Sons and doing absolutely nothing to prevent the Succession Crises(actually 2 Succession Crisises since Rhaeneras Offspring is illegitimate with Zero plausible Deniabillity) everyone and theyre Grandmas saw coming.
i know this title of the show is house of the dragon and centered through the pov of targaryeans, so the show subconsciously makes people root for her, but she's completely incompetent. she has no allies, and had years to network and gain support but never even bother to. she stupidly have bastards who are clearly not looking like what valyerions look like...that itself shows her lack of political savviness. and lastly, she basically just throws around "i am the heir" and have no gravitas. and she is too dull to see daemon was using her as a stepping stone to rule.
i dont think she's a bad person but she's just not fit to rule. it's not like the other option is great either but she has the worst claim to the throne. the only thing that she clinged on to is her father declaring her heir. sometimes going into the subreddit and reading the comments supporting her just make my eyes roll lol
While her brother Aegon would have been the opposite. Too good or too kind for his own good. Aegon wouldn't wanted anything but to please. The King Robert comparison is interesting because this characters didn't become alcoholic just to show us that they are bad people. But to look further in and realize that they are hurt and broken. For King Robert was Lenna but for Aegon is much more interesting. I believe Aegon since birth had his wings clipped like Sunfyre was after battle with the redqueen. A symbolism of Aegon's character, all for the betterment of Reynera chances at claiming the iron throne.
Viserys was the reason for Aegon's alcoholism. The most beautiful dragon with his wings clipped from birth.
You said exactly how I felt about Rhaenyra!!! Thank you!!!
The only reason she failed was because she took the throne while a war was ongoing and the crown in debt thanks to Alicent and aegon spending most of it on the war and as long as both rhaenyera and aegon were alive it wouldn’t have ended and it didn’t anyway until Cregan showed up. Had she taken the throne in a peaceful time when she was suppose to it wouldn’t have happened viserys having male heirs didn’t help her situation at all.
Rhaenyra spent her forming years as a brash, abrasive girl that scoffs at responsibility and being self-centered (Refusing to even consider political marrige, ignoring the implecations for Cole cuz she's horny), spent her adault years making bastards without even considering the consequences, runs away from court and responsibility AGAIN, and spends most of the present doing nothing, being indecisive and entitled.
She is a failure in every aspect of nobility and rulership, and the fact that the show tries to paint her as a heroine rather than the villain she is annoys me to no end.
Thank you for sharing your views, it really changes how I know her as a character
This video is - as unfortunately many videos about Rhaenyra - very unfair and misogynistic. I am tired of hearing "she wouldn't be good queen cause he has three bastrds" - she does not have any bastards (none can prove her this at least, and NO 'child look' is not proof in court, that is not how patriarchal society works), and even if she had - it's stil doesn;t alter her ability as ruler. Creator himself admitted she would be 'mediocrate' queen if she ruled during peace and then he contradicted himself by claiming 'she would never be a good queen'. Make it makes sens. Rhaenyra was robbed of her rightful inheritence and when she got capital city back, she got it without her treasure in midst of ongoing war: he keeps blaming ONE woman that she couldn't overcome what happened around instead of those who caused this situation in first place.
Even if the Dance didn’t happen, Rhaenyra’s rule was bound to be disastrous mostly because of the strong bastards problem. They’d would always be contest, and let’s not forget that I doubt that Daemon wouldn’t raise against them because of his trueborn sons right.
I believe that in the end a civil war would have occurred anyway
True, if only Rhaenyra is not such a headache to his father, Daeron will be the absolute best heir, Aegon and Aemond love him, everyone love him
And yet Rhaenyra is so stubborn and entitled, she refuse and keep other lords annoyed
"the crown must always win" Rhaenyra doesn't put her duty to the crown first, she doesn't seem to acknowledge that there is a duty at all.
I genuinely feel like people who watch HOTD and support the main characters did not watch GOT. Like, they had us rooting for characters like Tywin and Stannis.
But, it does give us a glimpse into the mindset of a privileged House (with dragons, they consider themselves way above the rest of the Westerosi). Robert B. had to win the throne, Lannisters had to use force to keep the power and Tyrells and Starks etc. The Targaryens are above all that, they are better, whereas in GOT, they were in a sense, equal Houses, but Targaryens were above the others or atleast that's how they thought.
I think that's the reason they do not solve their differences among themselves, because of this egoistic privilege.
The political dynamics of HOTD is a bit different than GOT.
Rhaenyra, in the books, warned her father that Laenor would be a bad match because he was known to only be interested in men but Viserys threatened to remove her as heir if she didn’t go through with the marriage. It was stupid to have illegitimate kids but, at the same time, she was forced into a marriage with a man everyone knew was gay.
Vserys didn’t respect the past custom that made him King. His cousin was older but was passed on because she was a woman and now he expected the same people who didn’t want his older female cousin would stand behind the older female child.
Also, Laenor was a bad rep for Rhaenyra. Sleeping around with minors enough the people were just sick of him. He is what we would call a “Predator” if not a “groomer”. Having illegitimate kids was just an icing on the cake for Rhaenyra in comparison what her husband does. At least she should have kept it hidden or find another Targaryen bastard to mess around instead of a Strong. Corlys had an indirect cause, he knew of his Son’s lack of interest in women, but the Lord of The Tides dismissed it as “I am not fond of fish, but I eat it when it’s served”. Yeah sexual orientation is not like eating fish or liking to eat fish.
I think the strongest argument should be besides her perception of the throne as her birth right why does she even want it at all.
Thank you for the great video ❤
This is the best, most concise perspective of Rhaenyra I've seen so far. I care about Rhaenyra in the series, but Rhaenyra - book and series - makes way too many mistakes. Accepting that she is an ill-prepared, less than competent ruler does not mean that the opposite was true for Aegon II, of course. I'd like to think that if Good Queen Alysanne managed to persuade Jaeherys I to choose Rhaenys as his successor, the realm and the Targaryen dynasty would have been better off.
Rhaenys would have been the best choice for everyone.
+1
NO! That would've erased a series of events and political marriages leading to the existence of all my favorite characters later.
Fair enough xd @@gooby214
People still don't understand that Rhaenys was not taken as a candidate, the candidate was Laenor her youngest son, not her.
Woman as a ruler? What a joke.
I agree with everything but you seem to forget that Fire and Blood takes place through the eyes of a maester who was bias towards the green so he might have twisted the story for her to look worse than she actually was
I really believe that ANY of the characters of this story are good for the throne all of them are just thinking in themselves using the people or the crown responsabilities like an excuse, No one have the values that are needed to be a good leader.
Wow this is fax. I'm Team Green now lol.
because aegon would be a better ruler? aemond?
@@Hafsa8660 Aegon would be a better ruler. Anyone up doesn't want it would be at least a decent ruler.
@@lumarrandom8144 If you said Aemond then maybe I’d agree with you.
We know aegon isn’t a decent ruler. To be a good ruler people have either love you, fear you or respect you. Nobody fears or respects him and he’d never rule himself, other people would rule for him.
He’s a fool and he’s eventually killed by his own men.
@@Hafsa8660 Imo he is if you want to disagree that's fine
To Rhaenrya's claim, Viserys never did prepared her to be honest. He always wanted a male heir who will bear The Conquer's crown and name. He only see her as a princess.
Only when his wife and his son had died he saw Rhaenrya has his heir.and he never prepared her also when he choose her. How a heir should be , how a heir should act like, the traits. He only spoiled her and except the realm to be loyal to him and his heir since he believes the king's words is final and hold values.
I think book and movie might have it different. In the movie, Rhaenyra is depicted as a good mother who deeply cares about her children. She is gentle and knows how to love. She is humane, whereas Alicent is more robotic, having considered herself a dutiful person who has set her own desires aside. Rhaenyra might not be the best queen, but she is stubborn, innovative (as seen when she found dragon riders), brave, and careful at the same time (as she tried to avert the war). She’s definitely not like Daenerys because she had doubts about being the heir and wasn’t paranoid or eager to set fire to everyone who disagreed with her.
She did IDIOTIC thing by making ulf dragon rider
In fact this all her new dragon riders are traitors , ulf specifically think he should be King because he now rides the biggest dragon
Causing thousands to die by dragon, bro Rhaenyra is absolute bich
The link for the Daenerys video is not appearing.
Sorry, the video has been taken down due to copyright issues.
Love the video, but can you please add “warning: spoilers” somewhere in this video or description😢
Cannot believe I discovered this amazing channel just now.
Thank you for this video!
But you said "Check out the Daenarys Targaryan above" - where is it? I want more vids plz
It blocked due to copyright :(
You, Sir, are completely right.
She's basically Mary, Queen of Scots.
That's a good comparison actually
In the show she seems to be more competent
Agree.
Even with that, she still seems not to be fit for the throne.
@@geminisflTeam Black, but again, fax. She would just be another Robert Baratheon, maybe worse.
@@absab2899 if a woman had the personality of robert, she would be worse than robert, a man can have bastards all day long and it wont matter because WE DONT GIVE BIRTH TO THE LITTLE SHITS, so we can deny that they are ours, but when they pop out of you, you cant do that, so a woman have bastards is worse than am an having bastards, is that fair? no its not fair, not even close, but life isnt fair so get over it, I will never be able to make millions on only fans, and you will never be able to be in charge because we dont want you in charge.
I know it will be a comment out of the storyline but especially in Dance of Dragons, they were all plot devices to make happen the civil war. George needed a civil war that would wipe out the dragons, and he made it happen with the wrong choices of multiple incompetent characters. In such a story, that's the only way. In ASOIAF, he firstly created characters and through them he develop the story. But in Fire and Blood, the civil war was always there, in ASOIAF some characters mentioned about it, and when it came to Fire and Blood, he had to fill the gaps. That's why they all seem incompetent, failing bunch of people.
EVERY story needs things to happen, if not there would be no story.
But the thing is how the writter constructs it.
And the way George built the Dance of the Dragons is HARDLY bad. He stablishes that Lords tend to be out of touch with reality, given their privileges. Add that Targaryens are SUPER entilted and have Dragons.
He made sure that the two sides had a personal hatred and as we see, those are the hardest to get over.
So add people super entilted, that care VERY little about the realm and hate one another? Fraticidal Civil War.
Viserys had 3 legitimate sons not 2
Didn't even pronounce then name right
Her dad didnt prepare her at all honestly plus having three bastards child probably didnt help
He did made her his Cupbearer wich is a Position almost always filled by Proteges for the purpos of learning and besides, nobody stoped her from picking up a Book or two
aegon was way more “lustful” i would say
At least his kids weren't bastards
@@ktbecstasy umm did you watch the same show? in episode 9, they went to a child fighting ring and they found one of aegon’s bastards. in fact aegon had multiple bastards, it’s in the books as well. he has legitimate children with helaena but so does rhaenyra with daemon. basically both aegon and rhaenyra have bastard children and legitimate children so that’s not even an argument valid for why aegon should be king
@@elizabethl3092 yeah but his kids in marriage weren't bastards, his heirs unlike the wh*re on dragonstone
@@ktbecstasy rhaenyra could’ve legitimatized her sons if she really wanted to. again if her sons with leanor (harwin) couldn’t have a claim, then at least her sons with daemon could have one. and they would have a great claim because they would mostly be pure valryian blood and they are the children of viserys’s daughter and brother. that’s more of a claim than half hightower children. also breaking news, women like sex just as much as men. but women get shamed for it. ageon was equally a whore as much as rhaenyra if not more but because he’s a man, you don’t care. go support a rapist if you want but nyra is literally the true heir. cope
@@ktbecstasy if nyra became queen, she literally could’ve legitimized her sons. not to mention she still has legitimate children with daemon. if people were too iffy about jace ruling, then aegon (nyras’s child not alicent’s) and viserys have good claims as well. not to mention they pretty much have pure valyrian blood except for being probably less than a quarter arryn. and their parents are literally the king’s daughter and brother. meanwhile alicent’s children are half hightower and viserys didn’t give a fuck about them. and in the end it was nyra’s bloodline that continued the targaryen dynasty. so again….cope
You are absolutely right Ser..!!
It’s quite simple really, if Rhaenys cannot be queen then Aegon is the rightful heir
That is the decision of the acting King as was the rule passed down to only pass the line through male heirs. There is also the issue of Corlyis Valeryon and his navy might and wealth that was originally looked over by the King in favor of the HighTowers. Rhaenyra was the only option that had the succession been handled right, would not have ended in a full out war.
the thing that made viserys heir is the same thing that made rhaenyra heir , king jaeherys proved that a king has authority to choose heir while ignoring the andal law (when he favoured viserys instead of rhaenys) by making council .
And viserys did the same thing jaeherys did before him , ignoring the andal law and choosing heir and making lords swear oaths to him /her .
that made the majority of WESTROS side for rhaenyra in this conflict
great video 👏🏻 thx
Viserys caused this mess. Naming his lame daughter heir when it shoulda been Daemon
Honestly viserys didn’t have to choose either considering he remarried, although of course he didn’t think long term.
To be honest.... I think that Daeron the Daring would have been a good king
In the books, the story is told from a biased perspective and should be interpreted as such. What is made "clear" is more often than not a lie, a misinterpretation, or information from an untrustworthy source. Once you realize that the truth is much harder to grasp.
I'm sick from this horrible argument. I'LL TAKE FIRE & BLOOD OVER HOTD THE BLACK PROPAGANDA ANY DAY. It's the show that is told from a biased perspective (Ryan Condal is absolutely biased black stan). Even GRRM said that his book is a VALID interpretation in which we don't know what's true or not. And F&B is written by MULTIPLE biased perspectives, unlike the show that is written by two Black-loving chumps who have a vendetta against the Greens as much as D&D hated Stannis. And GRRM talked PERSONALLY about Rhaenyra long before Fire & Blood, and he confirmed multiple times that Rhaenyra's personality wasn't pleasant. That she was arrogant and spoiled. The show pretends she's a saint.
Oh, please. Of course, people would want us to forget the stuff that makes sense in favor of the nonsense. Would you like us to shut off our brains, too? In the show, they changed addam and Alyn's age to fit a narrative. It wasn't to clear up truths. The age change comes because the modern-day writers can't fathom a gay man having natural born children.
"Every ruler had bastards!"
Baelor didn't. Also, none of the other rulers tried to place their bastards on the throne after them. Rhaenyra was breaking the social contract in Westeros, and the greens had every right to deny her.
Firstly, the show version of her is not the same as the book version.
And she was forced to marry a gay man, so the only likely way she could have any children would be through a paramour.
Also, the 'true born' argument is all well and good but so was naming a successor - which he did. In fact, that is how HE was on the throne too.
Book Rhaenyra aka the Realm's delight because of the tours she did of Westeros in her youth was married young and then had the business of producing children.
But im sure you would also blame her if she hadnt had any children!
Vicerys is the main problem here.
He shouldnt have remarried and to her friend no less, and then had more children which put her position in jeopardy despite the succession had already been decided and reinforced several times.
Her move to Dragonstone was brought aboit because Alicent was constantly berrating her and making her own children despise Rhaenyra even though she had done nothing to her brothers and sister.
And Alicent, is she had indeed been a close friend, shouldnt have seduced her friends father (after he unsuccessful attempts at seducing the previous king!) but again, its her father who pushed her to do this to give himself more power.
And if she had been a man, and screwed half the kingdom, no one would be calling him a whore. The double standards are infuriating!
Its a shame she was forced to marry a man totally unsuitable and hadnt married Daemon as they both wished. Then there wouldnt have been as much of an issue.
Sorry to break it to you bro but societal norms are stronger than dragonfire. You can't just apply our modern libertarian views to a medieval society, it doesn't work like that.
“Unnecessarily brutal towards her enemies” bffr…
She wasn’t a good ruler by far but by gods she’s better than Aemond and Aegon. She was willing to listen and learn and didn’t have a thirst for bloodshed
Aegon is not blood thirsty, yes he assaulted maid once, but then Rhaenyra is also sexual deviant all of them is entitled
Aegon younger brother, 3rd son of Viserys should be the perfect King, Aegon btw actually cares, people call him the realm delight but of course because of war people suffers
someone enlighten me on this?
couldn't Viserys just said that Rhaenyras first born male son will inherit after his death, instead of her??
would that solve anything?
She could have had her bastard sons and dealt with it openly and then legitimized them. Forcing everyone in Westeros to partake in this charade cost her legitimacy.
The show also portrayed very well during her tour of the riverlands how unfit a ruler she was. Arrogant, mocking her future vassals, letting 2 lords duel for her sake and just leaving them to return home. Viserys showed her all the mercy that not even his brother could expect.
Yeaaaah nah. If she admitted they were bastards the moment, viserys dies the realm would de throne her expediously.
I mean even if you think Rhaenyra would be equally as bad as Aegon at ruling. Rhaenyra winning still does something very important. At least women could be in power. Chances are laws could be put in place to protect the rights of women more. Even if it's not perfectly equal, I still think Rhaenyra's side is more likely to do this than Aegon's side. Remember, the greens literally let Rhaenyra's son be the ruler over Aegon's daughter. 😂😂😂
Rhaenyra losing just spelled more excuses to deter women from getting in power for generations. And that attitude just worsened the rights of women in general after that.
Danaerys symbolises the return of the feminine power and magic in the world that the society had snuffed out.
TV SHOW shows her in better way I would say. Does it mean they fcked it up already?
Rhaenyra fatal flaw is her lack of Soft Power. She doesn’t understand diplomacy, public image or political wit. Her son died but it never occurred to her to paint Aemond as a Kinslayer, whereas Otto instantly saw the propaganda value of Blood and Cheese. Rhaenyra and Dameon both think dragons are all they need to rule. Of the Smallfolk she believes: “Their opinions are of no consequence.”
Shes nothing without the dragons. Danaery T was popular because she liberated slaves and people loved her even without the dragons she was a well liked figure in early seaons
Question:
What makes her complex? I don't understand it
anyone who supports rhaenyra loves her just because she is kinda hot
And I think also because they want her to be a new Daenerys, but with a better ending 😅
@@danika9411 Poor sweet summer children. I wonder if Rhaenyra becoming Sunfyre's poop will be enough of a good ending for them.
@@gooby214 I know how she ends. I don't really like her. I think it was not good that Aegon iii watched. It traumatized him for life. I'm neutral in this ✌️
Exactly her Supporter is bunch of kids. 😅
Also because she fits the ‘badass’ female character that people love.
I am team black, but I have to admit that both in the book and show, Rhanerya would be a terrible queen. She was impetuous, arrogant, and petty and refused to listen to wise advice. Despite having kids with Harwin Strong, she clearly had no real affection for him, which is obvious from how she hardly reacted to his death. If she wanted an open marriage, she could have chosen a Velaryon, Targaryen or Celtigar to satisfy her "appetite" and the kids would have had Valyrian features. Talking about the kids, she put them in danger by sending them away from Dragonstone without real protection but blamed everybody else when they were harmed. Then there is the issue of the dragonseeds. She did not realise that, depending on their parentage, some of the dragonseeds may have a stronger claim to the throne than her. Ultimately, I think she wanted to be a monarch because she felt powerless as a woman in a medieval society, and she thought she would gain true power, autonomy and control. Which just shows how naive she really was.
Interesting points. Even though those were the same thoughts that everyone had during the intro of the Civil War, here is a question: What is a bad king and vice versa to a bad and good queen? Because the books are written from a biased point of view and also take in statements from three unreliable resources.
On the show, we see how things are played and how they happen. Now, to the point of her not being a good queen? I say it comes from not only her but also the period that she was born in and the individuals in that time. Viserys, Otto Hand, Alicent, and Daemon. Viserys should’ve never been king in the first place, and I’m very certain that there were people who could take one look at him and knew right away he would never make an effective ruler of the seven kingdoms, should’ve never been king in the first place, and I’m very certain that there were people that could take one look at him and knew right away he would never make an effective ruler of the seven kingdoms. He was very indecisive, he was very slow to act, and he was quick to please everyone, he was the Aenys Targaryen of his time. he was very indecisive, and he was very slow to act, and he was quick to please everyone. Otto was already opposing her from the moment he suggested that she would be named heir to keep Damon away from the throne but also he was not a very trustworthy advisor. He already made her and Daemon and Corlys very wary of him, and he turned them into enemies, he didn’t even want to teach her the importance of the governance of ruling the kingdom. Alicent made questionable decisions, here and there, and more importantly, the audacity of her to order Reynera to send her baby to her bed chambers just to take a look at him right after giving birth which is very low. In my opinion, she is a dutiful queen, but the problem was, that she was contributing to the division within House Targaryen and her actions didn’t prevent the war from happening. Daemon was a terrible influence on her. She knew all along the type of person that he was, but she was drawn to him as he was just like her they burn fire, and they burn brighter. She begged her father many times to allow her to marry him therefore, it would combine his claim with her as he is a P or Targaryen, and that’s all she ever wanted but at the same time, he would have the power over her as well.
As well as the lords, but I also want to point out that she made a huge stupid mistake in disregarding the wise words from Rhaenys and for sleeping with Criston Cole.
I gotta admit. For now, she is much better in the show.
It was customary in the Middle Ages to take the baby to be presented to the king and queen. One as the highest authority as he wished to meet his grandson and she as the highest female authority and the third most important person in the kingdom as she also wished to meet her grandson and find out if he was a bastard.
That RHaenyra had taken the decision to go herself meant no more than that she wished the queen to know that she could not speak of her children's bastardy as loudly as she did before or after with the king there.
This is more true for the books, show Rhaenyra is different and definitely more understandable as a person. In the show, yes Rhaenyra would’ve made a good queen before the war . The events of the war and loss of her children will undoubtedly change her . Also her being less likeable in the books can be chalked up to the book being written predominantly by supporters of the greens who’d want their side to be more sympathetic. Even in the books, I feel Rhaenyra would’ve unquestionably made a much better ruler than Aegon .
Exactly it's literally written by biased maesters who hated dragons and were pro green
@@LauraGS564 Based chad maesters. Writing the truth about the vile Targshits and making Chad Bobby B proud.
@@LauraGS564 Yes, the books may exaggerated some aspects but still no one can defend having 3 bastards with Harwin Strong. No matter what the books say, if she was a good ruler the dragons wouldn't extinct.
@@AndreFlickUS Thank you, the dragons were basically killed under her rule. How does one screw up so badly.
Where is the video about Daenerys?
But believe me in real life history there's hundreds and thousands kings and queen who aren't meant to be kings and queens
I do believe this but I wish they rule together … house before everything else
Three legitimate sons don’t forget Dearon
Rhaenyra is what rhaena the black bride would have been as queen i always say that
Family legacy on the line dragon pit under duress? She ran away.
Nicely Explained 🎉
Can you make a video on - if daimon was a king
A video about Daemon is on the way ;)
What happened to the Daenerys video?
What makes a person a good ruler if he inherits a kingdom.
Not that complicated as people think.
Either make yourself so powerful that nobody can question you or your decissions and be seen as a God. The closer you are in power to those you rule over - the more your actions will be questions and put under microscope.
So Obvious power that inspires fear, coupled with being dutiful in appearing as dutiful. You dont even have to be and no ruler actually is. its an act. You delegate duty to others while keeping an eye ofc demonstrating your power when somoene obviously does something wrong and you have to "perform your duty" and punish him in front of everyone to remind everyone.
What makes a person a good ruler if he doesnt have a kingdom? Conquering one ofc, which is the harder part and once achieved unquestionable power you get automatically authority from that and once again dutifully making appearances pretending to be dutiful.
Remember, people didnt even know who Aegon the Conqueror even was as a person. it wasnt important. Its nevermattered. They feared him so much because of his dragons and his demonstration of power that they dont even remember whether they were paying high taxes or not during his time.
Ofc this being said it goes without saying that its also about respect. You show acts of respect toward your subjects which is seen as benevolence and they repay you with love or reverence.
So:
1. Unquestionable authority thet comes with unquestionable power
2. Keeping up appearances to represent the crown and so people can be assured you are fulfilling your duty (because ruling over after all its a job). If you arent talented enough in decission making, you delegate to others more talented but always be there keeping an eye so you will always take credit
3. Respecting or even appearing to respect those you rule over. This goes long way. You dont need to show love to them but respect their ways. But never to the point of you being seen as weak and too eager to satisfy or oblige. You are the king and whenever it is your way or theirs - you have to show firmness and has to be your way. They have to know that its always gonna be your way if you insist so they may never question you.
Lots of rulers in Westeros are seen unrealistically through the eyes of narrators and through the eyes of the maesters. So the maesters have an agenda so not very objective. But here is an objective ruler of our times. The USA.
The USA has undisputed power over its domains. No other leader in the Western world, no other country even thinks to usurp their place.
So Rhaenyra's place was question not because she was a woman but because her grip on power wasnt firm and she had challengers who tradition favored and who had the biggest dragon.
I would rather choose Maegor.
I'd sooner crown King Walder I Frey or King Hot Pie I than Rhaenyra.
King Bread
Somebody had to make video like this.