I'm surprised at all the comments saying "it's not even close." Yes, it is. It's very close. And in any kind of real playing situation it'll be close enough to be indistinguishable. Not to mention the inevitable component drift that makes every old Mutron different from the others and different from anything you've heard Jerry play on a decades old recording. I owned an original back in the day and don't miss it. So many great options available now you don't need a piece of unobtanium gear to capture the magic. The magic is in your head.
I should clarify that my comment is more about the general experience of playing these pedals (including the Tru-Tron and the Micro-Tron IV) than it is about the tones on this particular video. The Micro in particular comes off poorly in this video and that matches my experience owning one. Envelope filters are super finicky beasts and have to be dialed in pretty much every time you power them on. You have to form a relationship with one to really get the most out of it.
I had an old Ibanez af9 and was my favorite. For non mutton pedals it had the most subtle, mellow tone. I use a qtron now. Does the job but not as smooth.
In this video, I preferred the original Mutron. However the Q Tron might be a better pedal for more versatile stuff overall so I would probably pick the Q Tron
@@mikemcaulaywhat didn’t you like about the Micro? I’m looking for a small board friendly envelope filter and was eyeing the Micro as a potential option
@@CargoShorts7 The short answer is it just doesn't sound that great. It's not terrible but there are plenty of better options in a small form factor. I use a Micro-Tron IV now and love it. It does the thing without taking up too much board real estate.
Jerry guitar has an effects loop which he says that it changes how the envelope filter pedals will Open/close the envelope compared of using a normal output jack it won't open/close the envelope like his effects loop on his guitar. Have you notice this?
That vintage is nasally in all the right ways… The new MuTron seems brighter but a tad truer to the original than the Q Tron. I have the Micro QTron and find it tough to dial in “set it and forget in” settings because it has so much to do with volume, other effects in chain, etc. I don’t have Obel - clearly that would help but not happening anytime soon. Anyway, when it’s as close as I can get in the Q still gets me to that place and is fun to take for a ride. Your playing on all the Shakedown bits was phenomenal and showcases your creativity and versatility as a player - so good! Love these videos so much - keep ‘em coming!
Cool video-great sounds. Like almost everybody else I was amazed at how much more Jer the OG sounded. But after having both a Q-tron Micro and now a Nano (for the smaller size), I’m not really sure how much it honestly matters. They all sound good and do the job once you nail the pick and the settings. Again-really good playing to show them all off.
ive been using the micro q tron for a while and it sounds great and does what its meant to do. as great as the original is, when i'm playing a song with it i won't be switching between the two to make sure it sounds the same, so i'm with you I'm not sure how much it matters, and also great video and playing
@@ptboy1030 Typically, low pass, vol at noon, drive at 2pm, Q at 1pm. But depending on the guitar; for buckers I pretty much use both an overdrive and a boost to get it to quack nicely; with single coils I can run it by itself. Both with some compression, which helps a lot.
In this particular comparison with these settings, it was all over after Estimated Prophet. The original sounds just like Jerry, with all the others coming in flat, compressed, or a combination of both. The headspace and fullness of the original is like comparing a DAT to a CD when listening to the others.
Just curious, does your guitar have the OBEL built in? I'm wondering how the envelope filter reacts to that. It can sometimes be pretty hard to dial in a good usable tone with an EF where you get that good range and sweep of tone evenly across all six strings of the guitar in my experience (I'll go ahead and mention that I have only ever used the envelope filter that is on the Helix HX Effects, so maybe I would have a better result if I used a standalone pedal, but that is just a disclaimer). I will also say that I have been able to dial in great Jerry-like tones with an EF before and understand how nuanced and precise your right hand has to be in order to get it to sound right, so I don't think it is so much an issue of my playing as it is just trying to dial it into that sweet spot. For me, sometimes it'll be a situation where maybe the high E string has a good sweep and reaction to picking so that you have that sensitivity to get the full Jerry tone out of it, but then maybe the B and G strings don't hit that peak and reach the "quacky" sort of area of an EF like the high E string may. Then if you turn the gain up on the pedal to try and adjust in order to get a proper reaction from the previously dead-sounding strings, you may end up having the high E string then always shoot up to the very top range of the filter so that you have none of that quack and it just goes straight to the trebly bite top end of the EF for some strings while the others react how they should. I can't describe it that well, but that has just been my experience in trying to dial in an EF, if that makes any sense. In my experience they have just been super, super sensitive to the tiniest changes on the pedal or amp where one minute you'll have the ideal Garcia EF sound going, then you slightly change anything and all of a sudden the sound is gone and back to being uneven for different strings. So does the OBEL help to even things out across all strings where you can easily adjust your pick attack to get the full range of sweep out of an EF like you should be able to get as you demonstrated here? Seems on paper that the OBEL would make it much easier to dial the pedal into that sweet spot like you have here. What is your experience in that area?
I own a 2nd gen Musitronics Mutron III. The only difference between it and the first gen pedal is that it has an internal power supply. I sold my first gen unit long ago. The connection between the power supply and pedal was a very strange and arcane 3 pin male plug - easily broken..... The closest clone I have found is functionally the same as the Mutron III. It's the Ibanez AF-9 (Autofilter). I bought mine at a music shop in Harvard Square in the summer of 1982 and I still own and play it. Sometimes I use both the AF-9 and the Mutrion III on my board and to boot I hae an All Muse Macro-Dose which does not do a good emulation of the Garcia envelope thing but is great for adding vowely texture to chords.....;. YMMV
After owning the tru-tron, ibanez Af, and several others, I finally aquired the original Mutron III and a Arp era Mutron III (the arp and Haz are awful, avoid) There is just no comparison to the original. They sound "similar" but when you finally plug into the original it all finally makes sense why Jerry loved that pedal. Its just a blast. The taper is also much smoother and easier to dial in the right sweep. Whereas the others seem to have a more narrow sweep sweet spot. The original is almost like its own instrument. You have to learn how to pick attack carefully to get the jerry tones. Is it worth 800$? Fraid so. That said do you want to sound identical to Jerry? It quickly exposes the skill of the player when all the same gear doesnt get the notes or fingerpicking correct . For the affordable route I like the Qtron and Ibanez best (Bob played the ibanez on shakedown) but they both sound better with a boost pedal before them. Should add that almost all were designed by the same person Mike Beigel, so the differences must come down to unique parts sourcing, manufacturing etc.
The QTron+ would have sounded better with the response on fast, on par with the Microtron III which sounds a bit faster that the muTron. Micro QTron has alot of problems. Slow, not sharp enough on the sweep. Drive not high enough for unwound strings. Would have liked to see a Mini Q-Tron in the test. I think its better than the current Q-Tron+ and has more presence and skank on the sweep and snappier on the decay. MicroTron III just ahead of the MuTron. Mini Q-Tron over the QTron+.
@@JerryToneStore Great video. I have the Haz. In my opinion, it sounds just fine (like the vintage). I would never part with it. However, I was so glad you did this because I wanted something that was more pedal board friendly. I was happy to see that the new smaller Mu-tron sounds identical. I was very surprised that The Q-tron + actually sounded better than all of them. It sounded more like what you would here on the studio versions. Deeper and richer. Too bad it's a bit larger and 24v (not as pedal board friendly). But sound is most important. Thanks again.
I never understand how people are able to have the gain setting on their qtron+ up so high. I have to keep it almost off to not make it overload. Other than your gain settings mine is pretty much set the same though
@@JonnyG4579 in this video, while not historically accurate, I was not using OBEL, just full strength volume from the output of my guitar equipped with a Spud II buffer. Not much experience on the Q-Tron+, but can certainly say the gain was the most finnicky of the bunch. the other devices don't "overload" the same way this thing does.
@@JonnyG4579 really the trick with running higher gain is to reduce your picking velocity so it doesn't flood the filter and overload it - that would be my tip specifically!
you have the settings messed up on atleast a few of the pedals so its not an apples to apples comparison. you have the LP on the original sounding all smooth, and you have the micro q tron on band pass with the drive way up sounding sharp and ice picky. this would be a way better comparison if you had the settings set like you do on the original. if anyone listens to this and says the OG sounds way better/smoother its not surprising because you actually have it set like Jerry would have it set, set the other ones up similar for a legit comparison
The micro qtron is a 9v and the + is 24? The + sounds better between the two here. Is that your opinion? Is it worth dealing with the 24 power supply or the 9volt is fine? Your comments are appreciated!!!😊
@@JerryToneStore i had the haz labs version basically the og but a little better in my opinion..but.. buuuht what about the perfect 93 style auto wah he used it sounds so clean no way its the mutron, i dont know what it is.. maybe new mod in 93 to the mutron hmmm
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm surprised at all the comments saying "it's not even close." Yes, it is. It's very close. And in any kind of real playing situation it'll be close enough to be indistinguishable. Not to mention the inevitable component drift that makes every old Mutron different from the others and different from anything you've heard Jerry play on a decades old recording. I owned an original back in the day and don't miss it. So many great options available now you don't need a piece of unobtanium gear to capture the magic. The magic is in your head.
I should clarify that my comment is more about the general experience of playing these pedals (including the Tru-Tron and the Micro-Tron IV) than it is about the tones on this particular video. The Micro in particular comes off poorly in this video and that matches my experience owning one. Envelope filters are super finicky beasts and have to be dialed in pretty much every time you power them on. You have to form a relationship with one to really get the most out of it.
I had an old Ibanez af9 and was my favorite. For non mutton pedals it had the most subtle, mellow tone. I use a qtron now. Does the job but not as smooth.
In this video, I preferred the original Mutron. However the Q Tron might be a better pedal for more versatile stuff overall so I would probably pick the Q Tron
@@mikemcaulaywhat didn’t you like about the Micro? I’m looking for a small board friendly envelope filter and was eyeing the Micro as a potential option
@@CargoShorts7 The short answer is it just doesn't sound that great. It's not terrible but there are plenty of better options in a small form factor. I use a Micro-Tron IV now and love it. It does the thing without taking up too much board real estate.
I'd pay just hear you jam these out to completion. No band, no one else would be stellar.
Timestamps:
Estimated Prophet:
Vintage Mu-Tron: 0:19
MuTron Micro-Tron III: 0:50
EHX Micro Q-Tron: 1:19
EHX Q-Tron+: 1:47
Fire On The Mountain:
- Vintage Mu-Tron: 2:16
- MuTron Micro-Tron III: 2:45
- EHX Micro Q-Tron: 3:29
- EHX Q-Tron+: 4:04
Shakedown Street/Noodles:
- Vintage Mu-Tron: 4:40
- MuTron Micro-Tron III: 6:36
- EHX Micro Q-Tron: 8:38
- EHX Q-Tron+: 10:21 (false start - but you get the idea)
Jerry guitar has an effects loop which he says that it changes how the envelope filter pedals will Open/close the envelope compared of using a normal output jack it won't open/close the envelope like his effects loop on his guitar. Have you notice this?
That vintage is nasally in all the right ways… The new MuTron seems brighter but a tad truer to the original than the Q Tron. I have the Micro QTron and find it tough to dial in “set it and forget in” settings because it has so much to do with volume, other effects in chain, etc. I don’t have Obel - clearly that would help but not happening anytime soon. Anyway, when it’s as close as I can get in the Q still gets me to that place and is fun to take for a ride.
Your playing on all the Shakedown bits was phenomenal and showcases your creativity and versatility as a player - so good! Love these videos so much - keep ‘em coming!
Boy you killin' it with that sound!! I definitely dig the Micro for sure though. Again...KILLIN' IT!
that bassy qtron+ sounded quite cool
Cool video-great sounds. Like almost everybody else I was amazed at how much more Jer the OG sounded. But after having both a Q-tron Micro and now a Nano (for the smaller size), I’m not really sure how much it honestly matters. They all sound good and do the job once you nail the pick and the settings. Again-really good playing to show them all off.
that's how I feel as well - I've heard great players make a micro Q-Tron sound as good as it gets. All about how you use them!
thanks for the kind words!
ive been using the micro q tron for a while and it sounds great and does what its meant to do. as great as the original is, when i'm playing a song with it i won't be switching between the two to make sure it sounds the same, so i'm with you I'm not sure how much it matters, and also great video and playing
George, I just picked up a Nano, would you be kind enough to let me know your favorite settings you use on it. Thanks
@@ptboy1030 Typically, low pass, vol at noon, drive at 2pm, Q at 1pm. But depending on the guitar; for buckers I pretty much use both an overdrive and a boost to get it to quack nicely; with single coils I can run it by itself. Both with some compression, which helps a lot.
In this particular comparison with these settings, it was all over after Estimated Prophet. The original sounds just like Jerry, with all the others coming in flat, compressed, or a combination of both. The headspace and fullness of the original is like comparing a DAT to a CD when listening to the others.
Fantastic video!
Just curious, does your guitar have the OBEL built in? I'm wondering how the envelope filter reacts to that. It can sometimes be pretty hard to dial in a good usable tone with an EF where you get that good range and sweep of tone evenly across all six strings of the guitar in my experience (I'll go ahead and mention that I have only ever used the envelope filter that is on the Helix HX Effects, so maybe I would have a better result if I used a standalone pedal, but that is just a disclaimer). I will also say that I have been able to dial in great Jerry-like tones with an EF before and understand how nuanced and precise your right hand has to be in order to get it to sound right, so I don't think it is so much an issue of my playing as it is just trying to dial it into that sweet spot.
For me, sometimes it'll be a situation where maybe the high E string has a good sweep and reaction to picking so that you have that sensitivity to get the full Jerry tone out of it, but then maybe the B and G strings don't hit that peak and reach the "quacky" sort of area of an EF like the high E string may. Then if you turn the gain up on the pedal to try and adjust in order to get a proper reaction from the previously dead-sounding strings, you may end up having the high E string then always shoot up to the very top range of the filter so that you have none of that quack and it just goes straight to the trebly bite top end of the EF for some strings while the others react how they should. I can't describe it that well, but that has just been my experience in trying to dial in an EF, if that makes any sense.
In my experience they have just been super, super sensitive to the tiniest changes on the pedal or amp where one minute you'll have the ideal Garcia EF sound going, then you slightly change anything and all of a sudden the sound is gone and back to being uneven for different strings. So does the OBEL help to even things out across all strings where you can easily adjust your pick attack to get the full range of sweep out of an EF like you should be able to get as you demonstrated here? Seems on paper that the OBEL would make it much easier to dial the pedal into that sweet spot like you have here. What is your experience in that area?
great video, love the Original Mu-tron. I have the III.
Man the OG is just so good, they’re all really solid tho! You ever try the 3Leaf Proton or Emma Electronics Discombobulator?
Yeah but where can I listen to a full version of this Jack-A-Roe remix that opens the video? I could mow the entire lawn to this banger
I love my mu tron 3 Mico tron . I run it with the obel with buffer and I use a comp it helps alot
I own a 2nd gen Musitronics Mutron III. The only difference between it and the first gen pedal is that it has an internal power supply. I sold my first gen unit long ago. The connection between the power supply and pedal was a very strange and arcane 3 pin male plug - easily broken.....
The closest clone I have found is functionally the same as the Mutron III. It's the Ibanez AF-9 (Autofilter).
I bought mine at a music shop in Harvard Square in the summer of 1982 and I still own and play it. Sometimes I use both the AF-9 and the Mutrion III on my board and to boot I hae an All Muse Macro-Dose which does not do a good emulation of the Garcia envelope thing but is great for adding vowely texture to chords.....;. YMMV
Vintage for the win!
Killer playing!!! Great video
What about the Keelel neutrino?
Groovy on you for putting this together :)
After owning the tru-tron, ibanez Af, and several others, I finally aquired the original Mutron III and a Arp era Mutron III (the arp and Haz are awful, avoid) There is just no comparison to the original. They sound "similar" but when you finally plug into the original it all finally makes sense why Jerry loved that pedal. Its just a blast. The taper is also much smoother and easier to dial in the right sweep. Whereas the others seem to have a more narrow sweep sweet spot. The original is almost like its own instrument. You have to learn how to pick attack carefully to get the jerry tones. Is it worth 800$? Fraid so. That said do you want to sound identical to Jerry? It quickly exposes the skill of the player when all the same gear doesnt get the notes or fingerpicking correct . For the affordable route I like the Qtron and Ibanez best (Bob played the ibanez on shakedown) but they both sound better with a boost pedal before them.
Should add that almost all were designed by the same person Mike Beigel, so the differences must come down to unique parts sourcing, manufacturing etc.
great comment!
1) OG (juicy) 2) Microtron (hi-fi and responsive) 3)qtron + (modern and versatile) 4) qtron (very passable but not a vibe like the others)
Thanks for this excellent video..... !
do you think vintage mutron distort up in the neck?
The QTron+ would have sounded better with the response on fast, on par with the Microtron III which sounds a bit faster that the muTron. Micro QTron has alot of problems. Slow, not sharp enough on the sweep. Drive not high enough for unwound strings. Would have liked to see a Mini Q-Tron in the test. I think its better than the current Q-Tron+ and has more presence and skank on the sweep and snappier on the decay. MicroTron III just ahead of the MuTron. Mini Q-Tron over the QTron+.
How do you feel about Smokin Amp Co.’s envelope filter?
I have it
I have a mooer envelope filter that sounds better imo
I’m going to get micro q tron and see how it compares
OG Mutron III makes everything else sound horrible. I thought it would be much closer. Why can’t they just clone it exactly?
i totally agree but also, was surprised by how damn close they all are. In the scheme of things, I'd rather have one than none!
@@JerryToneStore Great video. I have the Haz. In my opinion, it sounds just fine (like the vintage). I would never part with it. However, I was so glad you did this because I wanted something that was more pedal board friendly. I was happy to see that the new smaller Mu-tron sounds identical. I was very surprised that The Q-tron + actually sounded better than all of them. It sounded more like what you would here on the studio versions. Deeper and richer. Too bad it's a bit larger and 24v (not as pedal board friendly). But sound is most important. Thanks again.
Your eyes are tricking you. The qtron is made by the same guy with the same circuitry
I have the Micro Tron IV...sooper dooper pooper scooper...
I never understand how people are able to have the gain setting on their qtron+ up so high. I have to keep it almost off to not make it overload. Other than your gain settings mine is pretty much set the same though
I’m not running an OBEL but I am running a buffer in my guitar. Maybe the OBEL makes it so you can run high gain? Any input @jerrytonestore?
@@JonnyG4579 in this video, while not historically accurate, I was not using OBEL, just full strength volume from the output of my guitar equipped with a Spud II buffer. Not much experience on the Q-Tron+, but can certainly say the gain was the most finnicky of the bunch. the other devices don't "overload" the same way this thing does.
@@JonnyG4579 really the trick with running higher gain is to reduce your picking velocity so it doesn't flood the filter and overload it - that would be my tip specifically!
you have the settings messed up on atleast a few of the pedals so its not an apples to apples comparison. you have the LP on the original sounding all smooth, and you have the micro q tron on band pass with the drive way up sounding sharp and ice picky. this would be a way better comparison if you had the settings set like you do on the original. if anyone listens to this and says the OG sounds way better/smoother its not surprising because you actually have it set like Jerry would have it set, set the other ones up similar for a legit comparison
The micro qtron is a 9v and the + is 24?
The + sounds better between the two here.
Is that your opinion?
Is it worth dealing with the 24 power supply or the 9volt is fine?
Your comments are appreciated!!!😊
Nice
Nothing's close to that original Mutron. It's nuts they can't replicate the circuitry.
Anyone tried the MXR Auto Q
vtg win but dang almost too sweet lol
i still can't make myself buy one...they're so awesome but hard to justify putting that on a board and taking it to a bar...
@@JerryToneStore i had the haz labs version basically the og but a little better in my opinion..but.. buuuht what about the perfect 93 style auto wah he used it sounds so clean no way its the mutron, i dont know what it is.. maybe new mod in 93 to the mutron hmmm
The original is the tone monster
Not even close