Low Cost Arbitrary Generator - Koolertron 60 MHz vs Siglent SDG810
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2020
- This video is about a Low Cost Arbitrary Generator. It is the Koolertron 60 MHz Arb Generator. I'll compare it to a Siglent SDG 810 Arb Generator. The Koolertron is a Dual Function Signal generator with Frequency counter.
Link to the Koolertron 60 MHz Arb Generator: amzn.to/2GjKOMS
Link to Siglent SDG810: amzn.to/3kZZa4n
Link to Siglent SDG1032x: amzn.to/30gRuTr
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Very Informative. When you viewed the spectrum waveforms, I was thinking the same as you about the noise until you test the THD. I might have to review that section again. Thanks for the video.
Electron One You bet! And thanks for the feedback! I need to spend more time analyzing these waveforms as well;)
I cannot read the display of your spectrum analysis. I get the impression since the Siglent SDG810 doesn't have the over-all frequency response of the Koolertron (10Meg Hz vs 60Meg Hz), the THD would naturally be higher because you must add up the total area under each harmonic frequency part of the waveform which should account for at least six times the THD And because the range of the Koolertron is six times more than Siglent, it may have frequency areas that are beyond the Siglent that are more pronounced in distortion. Just a working theory..
Hi Eddie, Very interesting and helpful video, also the tutoring was great. Thank you so much 😊
Glad you enjoyed it! I appreciate you!
Another great video presentation.. Thank you..
Thanks for watching!
An excellent review and comparison, thanks Eddie! Wow, i thought that the way more expensive Siglent would kick the Koolertron's butt! I have the pretty-identical JDS6800 60Mhz and have been extremely happy and impressed with it.....but i always thought that it was kinda something to be ashamed of compared to the bigger/better names that i could not afford. Now i don't feel so bad. Thanks for that, and the review!
Thanks for this feedback! I'm with you, I think this is a good little generator! I did see the marking (JDS2800 marking on the board (Rev 15)) on the pcb;)
Brand names rip you off all the time, but you buy their stuff because reliability and support. That being said, cheapo fun gen 8s amazing to be able to own one knowing it 8s almost as good as the professional 1k+ brands
9:26 This Koolertron JDS2800-60M is in fact a rebranded version of the JDS6600 (Joy-IT) version in a slim design housing.
The software is exact the same on both models.
I have bought the JDS6600 a month ago, and i'm very happy with the features that this generator provides.
13:53 The sync function is between ch1 and ch2, you can choose
what features you wanna sync, Freq, Offset, Amplitude, you can set each feature on or off.
If you then return to the mainscreen and you set the frequency to lets say 20Mhz,
then this 20Mhz is available on both channels.
Between both channels there is a very very minor (few Hz) unbalance in the higher frequency range,
but in the amplitude there is a difference of 0,2a0,4V between both channels.
First i though it was a difference caused by 1 of the 2 coax cables between generator and scope,
but swapping the cables between both channels on the generator or scope gives the same result.
The only minor point that i experienced, and i think that also exist on the Koolertron,
is that the powersupply leaks a voltage (86V in my case) to the negative part of the BNC connectors.
When connecting the generator to a grounded scope, this leakage is gone, but it can give
problems when using the signalgenerator on a floating sensitive circuit.
21:17 The 3 drops in amplitude from 20V to 10V and then 5V are because these signal generators
use a step-up converter, to convert the 5V DC input to 10V and 20V, and at 20V once it reach
the 10Mhz, the current begins to collapse, then i steps down to 10V to start a new range untill the current
starts to collaps, and finally at 30Mhz it steps down to 5V.
The maximum output current is arround 200mA, and the impedance of the signalgenerator is 50Ohm.
And as a tip, to save settings on startup, just press the OK button till it beeps, if you then power down the signal generator, and even disconnect the powersupply, it still keeps it settings saved.
This is fantastic feedback and information! Thank you Bjorn! I did see the JDS2800 marking on the board (Rev 15) but the video was getting so long I left the 'under the hood' part off. I do plan to do a short follow up video;)
I see the Koolertron now comes in a nice desktop case, like the Siglent. Looks nice!
I think this does fall under different names. My board shows a JDS part number which makes me think that JDS is the original maker. I appreciate your feedback:)
Thanks for this. I'm always looking for various arb generators
Any time! Thanks for the feedback!
sinc is the name coined for sin(x)/x and is related to filtering, sampling and Fourier analysis, for which it is the pair of the square wave. A sinc filter has a rectangular frequency response.
Thanks Aaron - I really appreciate it!! Great feedback!
I bought a FeelElec FY6200 signal generator from Banggood.
Think that was even under 100USD.
Looks verry similar to that Koolertron generator.
Even came with the same cheapish cabels.
Interesting stuff.
It sounds like they come from the same design. Not surprising;) Thanks for the feedback Geir!
Is the output impedance 52 ohms or 75 ohms or what exactly?
nice :) i think this koolertron is more than enough for amateurs like me and many others
I think so too. And, when we find out it isn't for some reason - then maybe that reason is enough to rationalize buying something more. I think they are overpriced. I compare what you get to the electronics in a scope...they should be less as many are sold. That's why I wanted to do this video - to show that these low cost guys are not too bad;)
very good
Thank you! Cheers!
You should do a comparison of the function generator that are built into the budget oscilloscopes you've reviewed.
Thanks - I like that idea!
I have a question that may not be your area of expertise, but I’ll ask anyway. I’ve heard different types of frequencies may help people with different things. For example 174 Hz is said to help with pain relief. I saw a video in which each frequency can be manipulated into different sound waves ie: square, rectangular, etc . With that said, if I wanted to create and record a frequency for my personal use, how would I know what type of sound wave I would need to put the frequency in?
Wow - this is a fantastic question!! I believe in this science, but I’d have to do some research. An arb gen should be able to reproduce it I’d think. Let us know what you learn.
Can you produce a AM, FM Sweep and/or modulated .. let’s say for radio IF alignments?
Thanks for the great question. I’ll try to do another video soon.
I have a FeelTech FY6900 60MHz DDS. This Koolertron GH-CJDS38-B is same as FeelTech FY6600. All other brands have remarked FeelTech models as Koolertron, JDS, DOMINTY and others but internal are same as FeelTech SG-s and all of them have same mistake, SMPS. Because of that big mistake, instead of that BS SMPS I replace them and modify PSU with complete new DIY linear PSU. After all it work flawles. Wery nice piece of equipment for that price, unbeatable.
That’s great FileFixer! Cool mod! My board shows a JDS part number which makes me think that JDS is the original maker. What does your PCB show for the maker?
@@KissAnalog Mine have FeelTech part number on board. In particular, it is all the same product. Feeltech develop all of these cheap DDS generators and sell licence to many other brands. JDS and FeelTech obviously have agreement between them because that JDS have own factory to produce not only DDS generators but other electronics. All of that JDS product have Certificatate of Compliance named from Hangzhou Junce Instruments co. ltd company as manufacturer. Try to look what you have in System menu at the bottom where is firmware version.
At 44:54 the sinc function is *not* a sync signal. It's not used to synchronise anything. Sinc is the Fourier transform of a rectangular function. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinc_function
Thanks Rex! So happy to have this great feedback!
Seems to be quite a lot of features and acceptable performance for not too much money.Would probably have seen much more capability of the Siglent had you gone into the arbitrary waveforms and been able to compare the 16K length to the Koolertron's 2K...or not.
Thanks Tim, I’ll have to try that - maybe in a shootout:) I just picked up another nice low cost option.
Can you check something on your koolertron the channel 1 button doesn’t seem to illuminate any where near what the channel 2 button does on my unit. If I turn channel 2 off and only have channel 1 enabled it still looks like the channel 2 button illumination overwhelms channel 1. Is this only on my unit or on all units?
I'm sorry that you are having trouble with yours. My unit shows both LEDs clearly when they are active. I wonder if you have a bad solder joint on your LED?
@@KissAnalog so I decided to return it for another and guess what same thing. So please do me a favor power it up and tell me you see CH1 and CH2 LEDs lit above BNC connectors right? Now look at the CH1/CH2 buttons and tell me doesn’t it look like only CH2 is lit and when you turn it off CH2 button still looks lit. I am finding it hard to believe my second one is doing the exact same thing. With CH2 on only the led above the BNC is lit and both CH1/2 buttons are not lit at all. If you turn on CH1 only then both CH1/2 buttons are lit but CH1 looks dull almost not lit until you put your hand over them you can see they are both lit. That is not how the buttons should work at all only the LED above the BNC makes sense but the button LEDs are half arse.
Great video. I'm guessing that your 'Koolertron' is internally the same as the FY6600, FY6800 and FY6900 models that have been available at speeds of up to 60MHz at about the $100 price point (with shipping) that have been around for several years. As you point out in the video, one of the biggest problems is that you have to be very careful about what the output voltage is because it will change with frequency.
Does the voltage change with frequency if you set it at 5 volts right away?
No, the 5 V is the lowest voltage drop, so if you start there it stays solid;) Great question!
I did see the margin on the pcb 'JDS2800 marking on the board (Rev 15)'. Thanks for this feedback!
Is there a modulation function, say, for testing tube radio IF functions?
Thanks for the great question! I'd think that you could do that. Do you have a frequency and modulation in mind?
@@KissAnalog Sure, I'm looking for 1650KHz with 400Hz modulation set at 30%. Can this be done?
I probably missed it but what was your scopes input impedance set at, 1M or 50 ohms ? Most gens are rated going into 50 ohm load. Last year I purchased 60MHz version which claim output impedance of 50 ohm but haven't had time to measure what it actually. When I get some time I will measure it. TNX 4 the upload
Great question! It was set to 1 Mohm.
u should have scope set for 50 ohms. If it's doesn't have that option than put a "T" connector on it with 50 ohm terminator and u will or should see big difference especially at higher frequencies
Interesting video very informative. Generator is good value but looks really cheap.
Thanks! I'll do a follow up, and show the 'under the hood'. It actually might be better designed/built then the packaging lets on. I'm sure that some corners were probably cut to keep cost down.
Eddie, I have noticed that function generators will often quote a frequency for sine waves that increases as you go through the range (and cost). That doesn’t always translate into being able to generate a square wave at the same high frequencies. I do have a Siglent that is two channels and a higher headline sine wave max frequency. Interestingly the square wave also goes up to the same frequency. I have noticed a degradation of a square wave e.g. at 30MHz. To get a good square wave requires careful setup e.g. your 50 ohm BNC cable should be driving a 50 ohm terminator on the scope. At which point I get excellent results. In your tests, the ability of the FG to drive a load should be of interest to subscribers and even the cable used should be carefully selected. Shame on Siglent, you won’t get any cables. I had issues with a square wave until I realised my 50 ohm cable was actually 75 ohm. The clue was the marking RG-59 on the cable. It is enough, combined with a load, to greatly affect the output. In effect the cables can just behave as a filter network and so you are measuring the characteristics of a filter and not the FG? One of the uses for a FG is to introduce noise e.g. into an amplifier. The Walmart powered units can do this since their output is floating that can be missing from better ones. The number of waveforms, does it matter for real world use?
Thanks for the great feedback. Yes, you are so right. The advertised frequency is often just for the sine, and the square is harder to get straight edges, so it is often spec'd at a lower freq. I agree that good cables should be supplied. I do like the isolation of the low cost units;) I often don't have to go to high frequencies, except when I'm showing UA-cam videos;) I don't think the number of waveforms matter that much - unless you need them. I think now days that the gens are ARB, they can produce many waveforms, so that's why they do;)
SINC is sin(X) / X. Did they spell it sync?
Thanks, I think I did;) It should be sinc right? I've never noticed this feature before.
I'm still on the $10 diy kit signal generator.
How is it working for you? What waveforms and frequencies do you use? I’m curious what people actually need;) Thanks for the feedback.
@@KissAnalog I just use the tones for audio amplifier repair. I'm just getting my stuff together for basic repair work... like refrigerator boards, bass guitar amps and receivers. I'm still on my first scope too, DSO Shell.
A shame you don't make a disclosure in the beginning.
I'm pretty unsure if it's a unit you have purchased for your own coins which I reckon it is.? since you don't mention anything else.
Maybe it's my danish nature that just prefers it transparent when people sitting and promoting and recommending a given product and also with a bunch of affiliate links.
all that is fine IMO - but it goes without saying that it will make things more transparent if you inform to the viewer' if you purchase it or you were gifted it, as a lubricating "payment" to make some promotion for it' - I also recall some YT policy about this aspect, and it goes without saying that the level of shill channels on YT that is promoting China-freebies left and right and where the sole incentive is affiliate-income and putting their a'ss up in the air in the hope China will hand them even more freebies in the future' is literally unreal these years.(all that is fine and up to the person own integrity, I just prefer things transparent when its product recommendation suited with affiliate links, and at least inform the circumstances).
If you state it somewhere in this 55-minute video, my bad as it ain't in the first half and no critics of you, but more in general, as a shareholder of Alphabet (YT) I'm more or less fed up with YT-shill-channels with a sole motive on getting freebies & affiliate humping and were any sense of integrity is out with the bathwater.
A disclosure goes a long way on products with affiliate links, and if the channel holder actually purchased this product themself because it looked solid / good value' - or its solely down to some China vendor that contacted them and it was that China-vendor that then decided what they wanted to promote to the viewer.
Anyway, I also went for one of these cheap DDS arb-generator ½ years back.
It was mostly just to have a signal-tool to get familiar with my new scope
It was also a 60mhz. at around 70USD from an EU warehouse from this Goodbang in China.
It was from the brand Feeltech or FeelElec model 6900 60mhz rev. 2.02 (60mhz 64 manual custom arb waveform, 8192 points 14bits sweep, mod, counter, VCO etc). the spec on that fellow en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=show&aid=65
and same also Sine 60mhz while SQ is 25mhz and the rest is 10mhz.
Here some internal pictures at the midpart in this slide - imgur.com/a/wo4v4Mz
but still trying to find head and toe while plugged into the scope and find some common ground.. ua-cam.com/video/Iy2NvuZUYXk/v-deo.html
But do like the computer interface, makes adjustment and input way easier and it runs fine on a plain 5v USB line to PC with the native dateline, though if I start to take advantage of the DC power features I reckon I need the AC but so far it works great just with the data line to the PC and no extra power.
Thanks for the feedback Jakob! Great to hear from our Danish friends;) Yes, I purchased this ARB generator. Most of my gear I review I do purchase. I have been lucky to get a few sent for free, and I must say that the vendors from China do not ask me to do anything except for me to share a link. If I'm going to take my time to do a video, I want the option to get some credit from Amazon versus a free meter if I can't use my affiliate link. Affiliate links make very little money, but there could be more opportunity than saving the money by getting a free meter that costs very little. My time is worth more than what a free meter costs - and I actually give half of them away to my viewers. I do hope to make some money some day - but not if I have to trade my honesty. But I know what you mean, there are some channels I watch that I have to wonder...
I though it would be a good price point for people watching this channel, so I purchased it to inspect for myself. We don't always need the best, but then if it is low cost and doesn't perform well - then it is a waste of time. I found another one that cost a little more and I'll review that soon too. I guess I also like playing with new toys;)
Watch video @ 2x! You'll thank me later!
Thanks! ;)