How I Learned the Ankle Motion Double Bass Technique
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- Опубліковано 3 кві 2020
- I really wanted to share this with you guys. This approach has helped me tremendously during the past two years and I've been seeing a lot of progress in my playing. Hope this helps you and please leave a comment bout your own experiences.
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Am in this exact process myself and have been for ages. To anyone wondering, yes it feels very tense in the beginning and difficult to control. That's because the ankle technique isn't meant to played slowly. Naturally we start out slow, so it's difficult because it's not meant to be played slow lol from what I've noticed, if you feel your shin muscle being used instead of your calf muscle, try lifting your ankle up a little higher and/or make sure you're sitting up straight. You'll know you've relaxed your shin muscle because suddenly you can practice this exercise longer without it feeling quite as exhausting
Man I know that feeling of not wanting to play drums when my progression is not happening, drives me crazy.
99,9% of us know the feeling. ;)
Especially when you’re putting in over 3 hours a day for years
I cry a lot
@@Mari000 This! And throwing sticks through the room & wanting to break stuff! :S
@@prod_adrian yep!!!
This is exactly what I am trying to do now. I wish somebody told me this 20 years ago.
Ive watched this video like 500 times and now I understand that I was always right when I was doing just by natural twitch like 8 notes at 215 bpm. i thought it was too much for a beginner and that I was doing it wrong... jesus... Your video changed my life
Good vid brother! I've been undergoing my own ankle journey in the past 6 months, with a big breakthrough recently- for me it was discovering the feeling of/learning to 1) relax the muscle at the front of my ankle (where shin connects to foot) while focusing on 2) using my heel movement (done by calf/kaahf contractions) and 3) maintaining the relaxed weight of my upper leg on pedal to aid power - as opposed to before when i would keep my hip flexors contracted in order to kind of elevate my feet to float above pedals- i dropped that. Once I realized this sequence it lead me to staying in contact w the pedal at all times w ball of my foot (crucial), and now im dancing on the pedals with a fraction of the effort before and higher, consistent tempos.
*I've learned alot from studying many pros like Marthyn, but there's always that personal translation to my body thats missing- there's no way to understand by watching someone how the motions and tension/relaxations etc FEEL TO ME in relation to/combination with each other, that comes from trial and error and troubleshooting- you will get there! When I first started to "get it" I looked down and had the distinct sensation that I was not looking at my own two feet- they were working so well & easily WITH the pedals that I actually felt like I was watching someone else's feet at work. Once you get it you're amazed how easy it is to "do too much" before you learned. Pardon comment length; had to share!
*Important PS:* For me, learning to feel/manage the proper downward drop of my heel was as crucial as learning to raise it. Theres a point when it clicked and i began truly working with the pedal, and i realized that the calf contract/heel lift to depress the pedal is only half the motion, where the drop down/reset is equally as crucial. Its easy to overly think of drum strokes as just the strike motion, but if you must strike repeatedly quickly and evenly, then the repositioning /relaxation of your foot (goes for hands/stick strokes too) is just as important to the sequence. Its like the kick pedal version of stick bounce, which you will internalize and feel how to always be in sync w the pedals.
YES! My bass drum playing is so weak and I definitely tense up my hip flexors way too much!
Same here, tensing up my upper leg muscles the same way. Starting to retrain my ankle technique from scratch now. Just today I played a tempo I was struggling to do, a little cleaner and longer than usual, and it felt so alien lol. Felt cool, but I was like woah, I’m doing it! Then it fell apart because my motion isn’t at all fully trained yet. Hope I get there soon
@@jamiasbury6949 I've found that the using hip flexors habit usually comes down to balance...with that true contact btwn foot and pedal from the right distance etc, your body will let you realize you don't need to add any lift from the hips. It's hard to unlearn the habitual mentality of "I need to hit hard to be heard!" that we naturally pick up learning drums and playing slower stuff with full hip lifts the way we all tend to start out doing...That's hard to shake; it doesn't easily compute that to crush 16th notes at higher tempos it requires less and smaller actions, less muscles etc ... Triggers of course helped me accept that not crushing the bass drum concept to hear notes evenly, but the more I think of it, that perfect position of throne height and distance may for me be most crucial starting point- knees lower than hips (height) and ankles out in front of knees (distance). If my throne is off a bit, or if I'm slouching or leaning, the ankle balance is easily compromised. The motion works beautifully when you're set up in with the right mechanics. Eventually it looks like the pedals are playing your feet. I may have alot of thoughts to share on the topic but I have a lifetime of progress ahead of me still, it's just I've eventually learned to truly grasp and envision the concepts and I like to write lots of words too. ✊🏻
Do you have any advice for the problem I'm having? When I try to do the ankle motion, my feet are hitting together instead of alternating. I've been trying for months to separate them but I feel like I am making absolutely zero progress and it's fustrating.
Hello Augustinas 🙂 6 Days ago, I watch your Video. And TODAY I can play the ankle motion at 220 bpm. 😍 I was struggling with this since 2 Years. YOUR excellent Explanation and the Video from Marthyn (Ex-BELPHEGOR), leads me to success. It was difficult, but in the End it's like learning Bycicle. Once You got it, You never forget. Playing both Feet together works better and better,but this is Practice and Patience. FOR ALL OTHER DRUMMERS WHICH ARE STRUGGLING: Start slowly and think about what you're have to do: HEEL UP is the Motion and NOT to push your Toes into the Pedal like is often shown in many UA-cam Videos here. AUGUSTINAS: ONCE AGAIN A BIG, BIG THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME❗ Believe me: When I learned the movement, a few tears of joy ran down my face❗❗❗I wish I could show You my progress👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻Best wishes from Germany. Blast on, Dude❗❗❗
Congrats, Mario! Keep on blasting!
I've seen a lot of videos addressing how to control the twitch by just saying "Keep practicing!" without actually giving any advice on how. Thanks for actually talking through something to work on.
This is the best kick lesson I have had the honour to learn from. Brilliant! The idea of isolation of the weaker limb and working forward in a 5-minute time slot along with the metronome appears understated but is a very efficient method of learning without overstressing a muscle
or muscle groups. Consider me subscribed my brother!
Happy to help ;)
Very well and simple explained. Thx!
Nice thanks you for sharing this with us!
Hey man, this is really cool. I've also started working on this technique ever since I saw Marthyn's videos.
Keep it up.
Cheers
Sam
Excellent, excellent video, thank you very much!!
Excellent breakdown of the ankle technique...
Man gonna try this . I feel like I have hit a hurdle this could be my fix.... Thx bro!!!
Thanks for sharing, I checked out Marthyn's video and after 10 years of problems I can understand the mechanics and am seeing new progress.
Thank you. It's helpful for me.
This was very helpful thanks!
Hey man! This is exactly what I figured out after many years of not being able to play (fast - or even medium fast) double bass. First, the lower leg muscles have to "learn" this kind of contraction/spasm movement and then I was able to control the motion / tempo after some practicing (but actually not a lot). I find it incredible how fast the tempo goes up compared to the full leg muscle movement... nice video, keep it up!
Thanks!
Thanks for this vídeo, sometimes we do need do somebody that had the same problems to guide us a little
What a great video!! I felt that way for years almost selling everything.Thank you so much and Cheers from Texas
Cheers Texas bro. N. Texas here.
Thank you so much for this video! I think this video combined with the recent Marthyn tutorial might have saved my career in drumming! Thank you very very much and wish you all the best!
You're most welcome. That's how I feel after learning this as well.
thank you for explaining this in the way you did. i keep practicing ankle technique but at like 130 to 140 bpm. been feeling stuck at that speed.I was mostly ignoring my natural twitch bpm because it was so hard to control. i havent researched too much, but i havent seen where anyone explained to practice from that natural twitch bpm. heard some mentions of it i think but didnt understand what they meant. the way you explained it was perfect. im going to practice this now, thank you!
the tip on setting the metronome to whatever tempo you feel comfortable with is super good, pretty crazy that hasn't came to my mind yet, thanks a lot!
You're welcome.
Thank you much !
Very helpful!
i'm actually learning this thanks to Marthyn Last videos.. i really love the sensation of precision!.. this quarintine helps a lot!.. very good video sir! I love the natural sound of your drum kit lml lml
You're welcome!
Thanks for sharing mate 👌 Cheers from Lisbon 🤟🤟
You're welcome!
Excellent video. Thank you
You are most welcome!
This is eye opening. I've been at that point of little or no progress lately and this was a very helpful video. I feel like my hands have been outpacing my feet. I want to grow and just get a little faster with my feet. I'm going to try to stick to this and see if I progress. Thank you for sharing your insight. Keep playing man!
You're welcome, Joseph. And thank you!
Thanks, man - I really struggle to get the motion on the paddle. But it's good to hear that this seems to be a common problem at the beginning. Gonna keep up trying - thanks for the vid!
Thanks! Keep it up!
Thanks man nice video
THANK YOU SO MUCH for your Video ❗I've lost my mind since 2 Years by hopeless learning the Ankle Motion. Most Videos here explained, that You have to push your toes into the Pedal. 💩 You and the Video from Marthyn opened my eyes. It's difficult to learn the motion, but slowly I see and feel Progress. TO ALL OTHERS: IF YOU FEEL YOUR MUSCLE TWITCH, YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT WAY🙂. It will take a lot of Time, but it will work! Again: THANX A LOT, DUDE ❗
Adjust threshold for false triggering. Thanks for the video lesson, you've got a very nice setup.
thanx for this clear video. my main problem is to combine the feet.
I’ve realized recently that I’ve not been progressing with my speed, because of just trying to play random stuff all the time, without using a focused group of muscles, or the right muscles for the tempo I’m at. I thought, “well I’ve played drums long enough, those muscles should know what to do already!” But, now I try to put just those calf muscles to use, consciously keeping the upper leg muscles out of the movement, and it’s like I’m starting from the beginning all over again. I have scoured youtube trying to find the right explanations to fix it. After seeing your video it seems like I’m at the same point you were. Good explanation. I hope I can at least get up to 200 BPM ankle motion soon. I want to make a youtube channel but my drumming isn’t up to par yet.
Good luck on your drumming journey!
I've been working on this method, because I discovered that twitch! I thought it was a joke until I've started to control it now, so really cool this vid reassured that for me! Just time to keep rehearsing! Thanks a ton! Rock on everyone!
Congrats on your progress!
Hey man, just wanted to give you a shout out and say thank you. I completed the bass drum mastery course twice and still wasn’t happy with where I was at. There were just a few pieces missing. One was my balance. I fixed that by playing through stick control with my hands and feet at the same time. The second was learning to use my ankle motion. I fixed that by doing long runs at a slow tempo with my heels down. The last one was learning how to contract the upper leg and apply pressure while keeping my calves relaxed. Your technique demonstrated in this video helped me and has become my finishing exercise with every single practice. I do about two minutes with one foot, two minutes with the other foot, and then two minutes together. Kind of works as an endurance run. But I switch between a slow and comfortable tempo and a faster tempo that requires downward pressure. This one exercise was the key to helping me break past 200. Thank you so much for making this video!
Thank you for the feedback! I'm still on the way to breaking the 200 barrier myself, but I know I'm on the right track. Cheers!
I spent years clueless about this whole ankle motion deal. Then I watched marthyn's videos and now I'm trying to internalize this technique. I wish I had learned all of this when I was a teenager learning to play.
I feel you dude. It's not the only way to go, but it seems to be the only one that worked for me.
@@AugustinasBeksta right now I'm having this weird issue where I can do the ankle technique really well with my left leg, I can just keep it going forever no tiredness, but with the right leg it's as if the upper leg muscles activate involuntarily and it's driving me nuts.
Good pointers! I've noticed the faster speeds, the full leg movement is sometimes a challenge!
It is. ;)
"Twitch and then control it" is awesome to hear. All ankle motion videos explain it with words, but then just shows the drumming doing it flawlessly. What does it look like at the start? How do you make sure it's just calf.
I was doing twitch and control and making progress the other day but realized I was using my shin, not calf. Frustrating
Thx man, I try to learn the ankle technique as well right now. What I don’t understand is: does the heel have to move up and down/is it stomping to make it work? or do I just lift it up at the start and keep it a bit above in the air? It doesn’t stay on the pedal like the ball of the foot right?
Great video! Helped me out a lot! Now I've been playing this technique for a while and can get up to decent tempos but my problem is that it usually takes at least 30min to 1 hour before I can actually play with it. Before it's mostly only my right foot that plays strong hits and the left barely being able to move. Anyone else struggling with this? Been playing with this technique for about a year with a break during the summer and some of the fall.
Personally I do need a warmup, but definetly not that long of a warmup. Generally I find that my hits are stronger when I start and they decrease in power in the end of my practice (muscles get fatigued). This is definetly an odd issue you're having.
@@AugustinasBeksta Yes indeed, it's like it's more of a twitching motion for the left foot(Which is not good) at the beginning and after playing for a while it's like I crack the code and start using my ankles with good hits
@@KarlstadDrums Hey Nils, did you make any progress and have some advice? I think I have the same problem you describe with my weak foot. My right foot can do the motion at different tempos well but I can't copy it with my left...
@@mkblackwood Hey! For about the last year I mainly play more rock oriented music and not as much focus on double bass(Altough I do play it from time to time but rarely above 150bpm). So sadly I don't have that many good tips. My situation was that I was able to play fast tempos with both of my feet without being tense however the next day at the beginning of the session it was like my left foot had forgotten the technique. I guess it comes with time but back then I did practice at least 2 hours of just kick technique a day for a few months and still had the problem, which was pretty un-motivating.
Krzysztof Klingbein teaches the ankle technique using shin muscles and he is going 280bpm. I used to follow Marthyn teachings using the calve but i have good and bad days with this and its not very reliable for me. Im switching to shin swivel and it already feels more natural to me.
This was great! Thanks for sharing the moments of doubt, they really are depressing. But this is clearly the way to go (I mean the Marthyn way)
Marthyn is the way :)
I keep seeing these videos on using the calf muscle more and I cant seem to do it? I must be doing something wrong! That is some crazy fast bassing at the end!
It's different for everybody, but for me the key was to completely isolate my upper leg and use only calves (same way as you'd raise and drop your heel with your foot on the ground).
I was practicing in this way for about 2 weeks. Original my max tempo was at 140, by using this technique I could boost to 195 for a few seconds. But the problem is I could not control the feet and feel very hard to get alternate exactly in the downbeat when the metronome start. So I decided to go back to the slow tempo range. (Because everyone says practice slowly) Your video shows me that maybe I should give it more time to practice in the high tempo. Anyway, thank you for the sharing.
Practicing slow is great, but this technique is not really possible at tempos lower than 140. What I did is practice full leg motion up to 150 and the ankle - slowing down from 175 (my natural ankle tempo) to 150. That way I avoid the 'in between gap' where my legs don't know what to do. ;)
Raising your beaters may give you more control too, if that is what you are looking for.
Great explanation dude. This is exactly how I did it but strangely, my feet always started contracting at around 240 so I had to work backwards and learn to do it slower!
Wow, dude. That's fast. How'd you slow it down?
@@AugustinasBeksta Same way as you! Started with a click and gradually forced myself to go down over many years.
Thats exactly what I noticed was the twitch, it started just going on its own at a fast clip, and w both feet at first You can feel yourself trying to sync the pedals opposite instead of playing flams. Eventually once the control kicks in you can just hit it right away. It feels wrong at 1st and totally uncontrollable But eventually you realize you start gaining small amounts of control with with more practice.
That's the stage I'm at, I have the motin down but my feet still don't want to sync up. The best way I can describe it is that it FEELS like it's getting there but it has not clicked quite yet. Then again I only started learning ankle motion like maybe a week ago.
Thanks for your video! Its a relief to see that everyone goes through the same problems with higher tempos. I'm practicing this for a while now but I have the problem that I can't do this slower than 175bpm and that I can't control this motion very well. 190bpm for 10 minutes with each foot is not a problem but when I try to combine the feet to play straight 16th its hard get it started because my feet start twitching and the first few hits are simultaneously and feel pretty weird. Any advice at how to practice and get this motion controlled and how to get from the leg motion into the ankle motion?
I wish you all the best for your future!
Yeah, it's weird in the beginning. A good tip is while practicing, be sure to have your other heel up as well (don't use your other leg as leverage). That way you teach your body to balance properly with both heels up. When trying to slow down, try to conciously move your heel up and down more that's how you slow down. That's what makes this technique hard at mid tempos.
@@AugustinasBeksta Thank you very much for the help and tips! I guess it takes some time, practice and patience to get used to it.
@@paulwolm2903 Sure does. ;)
Thank you for the great video! I've been learning this technique off and on for a few years now. I've made good progress in terms of speed and consistency, but I still cannot overcome the problem of STARTING the motion cleanly. I always need a few "warm" up strokes which are weak and twitchy before the clean strokes come in. Since it takes a bar or two before my feet "turn on", the technique is not very musical or applicable in a real context since the bass drum will drop out momentarily while I control the twitch.
This applies to the "power" of the strokes as well as the coordination. Once my feet "turn on" I can coordinate the alternating singles. But it is a mess at first.
I'm skeptical this is the kind of thing that can be "answered" as likely I just need to practice more, but has anyone struggled with this? If anyone has any tips on overcome this I would greatly appreciate it!
Hey, Eduardo. If you have problems with starting and stopping, then you need to practice starting and stopping. But be mindful about it. Look at your feet and see what they're doing. Generally a good starting position is heel up with a little pressure on the footboard. Do 4ths, 8ths and 16ths with eatch foot seperately, then combine them. Generally any exercise that involves switching techniques (from full leg to ankle).
@@AugustinasBeksta Great suggestion, thanks Augustinas. I think you are right - the transition from full leg to angle is where I lose control, so starting and stopping from there should help... I'll begin practicing this. Thanks again!
Can you answer me about a question? When you do this technique, the sound of the bass drum it's like 20%-30% less then doing just a heel up technique? Thanks.
Thanks for the video..personally my next hurdle is fixing the 'sloppiness' for the first few notes when starting a single stroke roll..
I can relate! Practicing starting and stopping is essential.
I had a very similar experience. Started the year able to play 180 bpm. It was my top speed and it was pretty sloppy. Set a goal of holding 200 bpm fit 2 minutes. I did my research and quickly found Marthyn. I went through his course, week by week. I completed each week twice before moving onto the next one. After completing his course one time through as I described, I completed one more time but only completing each course one week instead of doing it two weeks. Although knowledge improved as did my single foot speed, I really struggled to coordinate both feet together. The wheels would usually fall off somewhere around 180. I knew that there was some underlying aspect that I was missing. I looked back at some of his troubleshooting videos he had released from the drum technique Academy. At one point he mentioned playing with heels down to isolate the calf. When I emailed him about it he told me that it would not be effective for me so I didn’t pursue it right away. Ran into a gentleman by the name of Mark Smith who is a UK-based drum instructor. Took a lesson from him and he told me that he made more progress during the quarantine than any other time in his drumming history and that all he did was complete stick control with his hands and feet. One page per day, one minute for exercise. I started completing the exercises that he prescribed me out of the book. I was having good success and started looking at some of his older videos on his UA-cam channel. One of his practice routines was playing heel down single strokes for long periods of time wow experimenting and jamming with the hands at the same time. What I started doing was 15 minute runs of single strokes with my heel down anywhere between 90 and 110 bpm. Over the top of that I would blast, work on rudiments, or work on whatever else I felt like. Afterwards I found that I was able to transition to playing with my heels up and was able to hold incredibly fast tempos. I am on the last four pages of stick control this week and I still finish off my practice session with 15 minutes of heel down practice at slow tempo’s. I have since clocked myself playing singles up to 255 bpm. I still struggle some between 180 and 200, but have come to learn that that is a difficult zone for many drummers because it combines hip flexor and ankle motion and is more about balance in control then speed. Just wanted to share this because this has been an enlightening and fresh rating here. I know it is like to not see progress and just wanted to offer any help possible. Cheers!
Thanks for that long and informative answer!
Interesting. Playing heel down means using your shin muscle, which (if we're talking abouth the 'School of Marthyn') :) is bad, since it's a really weak muscle. So in your case, what is the actual technique you're using for fast double bass? And do you experience any pain playing steady heel down for a long time? I know I'd burn and lose control after 2 minutes.
Augustinas Bėkšta - I play heels up using the ankle technique. However playing long runs with my heels down allowed me to focus on coordination of left and right feet to create a clean single stroke roll. So once I switched to heels up, it was clean and accurate. And it doesn’t burn too bad because I am only going 80-110 bpm and not like 180-200. It’s more about programming the nerves to complete the movement with the ankles only and teaching them to go on autopilot while the hands do their thing. Once you learn to relax and forget your feet while doing the heels down runs, the heels up stuff becomes effortless. Control>speed. Give it a shot and see if you notice a difference after you get through the 15 minute run. Just pick a slow tempo and have fun while your feet do their thing. I’ve even done it with doubles and paradiddle with my feet. Lol
@@RazeTheWeak Thanks. Will look into this.
Bro, same story happened to me. Mark Smith gently DMed me and made be bought stick control,and playing it heels down. It cured a tension problem I had on my right foot upper ankle . This man is a savior
great video man, i struggle with controlling smooth 16th notes when playing right and left alternated. How did you manage to get your right left alternation so tight?
Thanks. I guess I did it like everybody does it. Play with each foot seperately and then combine them both. One thing I do is sing the part in my head (it sounds like 'takatakatakataka...'). This helps my body to know what I want it to do. But other than that I just play both feet seperately and then combine them. It takes time, but you'll get there. ;)
its funny to me to realize how fast I played 30 years ago, I can still play like that but back then it was mostly effortless so to me it seemed normal, now listening to it in present time I don't know how I managed to have that speed and stamina without literally passing out.I have to re-learn what I used to do to have that effortless playing.
Add accents in there to add power and dynamics....this also acts like a meter to help you control the time factors 😉🤘
Yeh this is the technique that got me from 150bpm to 210bpm (where I currently max out, finding it very hard to break that barrier somehow). But I find it very diffifult to use the ankles at tempos like 160-180 bpm, so that's a problem area where I can't quite figure out what to do.
I did as Marthyn suggested. I practiced the flat foot (whole leg) technique increasing the tempo and the ankle motion decreasing the tempo. This elimitated the 'in between' zone, which for me was 150-170. Now I am able to play it with both techniques.
Thank you for sharing! I am trying for a month to learn this technique without success probably too old already 47 😬......
I think you could do it.
@@AugustinasBeksta
I hope so ! 🙂
I am kind of disappointed from my self
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Great video man I have been looking for one like this for ages now. I gotta ask though how long until you were able to control the twitch? I have recently started doing exactly what you explained in the video and I am wondering how long it will be until I can expect to start seeing results.
Hey, Doug. It's hard to tell, since around 1,5 years have passed since my start. But I guess I was able to control it at some tempos (170-180) after a month (doing this kind of practice 3 times a week). Once you start doing it, it actually comes quite fast. The hard part is recreating the motion again the next day... :)
@@AugustinasBeksta awesome thank you 👌
Thanks man! When I'm getting my natural "beat" a problem arises : Either I have a flan effect or the beaters hit the head simultaneously. Do u got any tip to work this out?
Keep working on it. Play each foot at a time and later combine them. It's normal not getting it perfect at first.
Hardest part for me is getting both calves to play together. I can play eighth notes with both calves (one at a time) at decent tempos 130-150 but when I go to play them together for 16th notes it all falls apart.
130 is quite slow for ankle motion. I would develop the full leg motion more, so that I would be able to play those tempos using full leg. It is easier to use the ankle motion in tempos a bit higher than 130. ;) Just my opinion.
Thanks for the video, Augustinas! I have been practicing the swivel technique for six months and have reached 155 bpm with it (16th notes). My problem with the swivel technique is that there is too much ankle movement at a fast tempos and is therefore quite tiring after a while. And twice my right knee went out a bit, though I was careful to fix my knees and not move them. It seems the swivel technique didn’t work for me, only at tempos below 140 bpm. Marthyn's videos and your video inspired me, and today I started learning this new ankle technique, and with that my problem is that it only works at tempos above 160 bpm (16th notes), but I can’t separate my two legs. My two legs want to move at the same time. I can't use this ankle technique 140-160 bpm, because my ankles twitch. It’s hard to control this twitch movement, but I’m on it. I will also use mind control, to see if it goes better.
Hey David. It's great that you're inspired. The way I see it, the swivel is not a technique to be used with tempos below 170. Furthermore, I look at it as an extention of the ankle technique. Tempos like 140 still use full leg motion and I can't Imagine the swivel this slow. I mean you can swivel, but you'll just be moving your heels left and right while still moving the whole leg.
Congrats on switching your technique to ankle. The 'dead zone' is very real for all of us. For me its the 155 (I still have issues with it). The best advice is as Marthyn said: "Go up the bpm ladder with your full leg motion (flat foot) and go down the bpm ladder with the ankle (try to slow down). After a while, your techniques will meet somewhere in between and later on you'll be able to choose which one to apply. Good luck!
@@AugustinasBeksta Thank you Augustinas! It also works with the swivel between 120 and 155 bpm, but I really need to engage the whole leg a bit and also press the pedal a bit. But the problem with that is that I'm tired. And the swivel technique kills the pedals quite a bit, because after a while the pedal starts swinging left and right. The ankle technique looks good, it also spares the pedals better and I don’t get tired. I don’t give up, I’m learning the ankle technique. Thank you very much! And congratulations on your achievement, the ankle technique is already going well for you!
It’s very annoying that my ankles aren’t moving the way my mind wants them to. I set the metronome and I can’t adjust the movement of my ankle to that pace. This is a serious game of patience. But I figured out something that makes the practice a little easier. At 155 bpm we play a bar of quarter notes and a bar of eighth notes. So right foot: TA TA TA TA TITI TITI TITI TITI TA TA TA TA TITI TITI TITI TITI ... and left foot the same way: TA TA TA TA TITI TITI TITI TITI TA TA TA TA TITI TITI TITI TITI ... Only ankles. This exercise helps me control the movement of my ankles. Playing continuous eight notes is hard to control at first because the muscle twitches and always want to move fast.
@@ea11ur7 Yes, and it's very important to be able to switch techniques. The exercise helps with that as well.
@@AugustinasBeksta Yes. I will also try the 50 grams extra weight that Marthyn recommended. Tama Iron Cobra twin pedal - rolling glide version, that I’m using right now (not the latest version, but one earlier version) and has a pretty small hammer head, so maybe the extra weight will be good. Later I’ll want to buy a direct drive twin pedal (Pearl Demon Drive is said to be very good), but for now it’s good to practice the chained Iron cobra. I see, you're also using a chain pedal. Perhaps the chain pedal is better for beginners because it feels better and doesn’t react as suddenly as a direct drive pedal.
Learning this technique at the moment! What pedals do you have and what are your settings ?
Cheers
Hey, Morgan. I use the Pearl Redline Eliminators. I have posted my settings in my Instagram @augustinasbeksta ;)
Thank you so much for this video! I have the exact same problem! I mostly played Jazz-Fusion, rock and slower metal before so i could only go around 120 bpm relaxed at most. Then i recentley auditioned for a metal band and now i've been practising a lot the last months but have now hit a stop at around 140bpm. Now I see that I use too much of my legs as well and need to use more of my ankle. So if i got this right, i need to isolate and practise only with the feet for a while? I started doing heel down to only involve the feet like Marthyn suggested in a video but do you think i should change this?
Hey, Nils. I would not use the heel down. When we play heel down, we use our shin muscles (the weakest ones in our legs). This is not ankle motion. The ankle technique is performed heel up with your calve muscles. Start bouncing the beater using only your calve muscles and you'll get there. Full leg motion is okay as well. I still play full leg to aeound 160 and after that my ankles take over.
@@AugustinasBeksta Awesome! Thank you so much! I will try this when i get to my kit later today, really hope this works as it feels like i have tried everything. Really want to be good enough for the band if we start playing
@@KarlstadDrums That is exactly how I felt. Like I've tried everything and maybe drumming is not for me alltogether. Keep pushing, bro. You'll get there. ;) The band will understand if they see you trying. Good luck!
@@AugustinasBeksta Yeah hopefully! They have had multiple drummers audition but they said they liked my playing and that i'd land the gig if i only get up to speed(They have a few songs at 175bpm). Now they are right up in recording an album(With another drummer) plus corona will probably prevent any shows so i hopefully have some time. Thanks again!:)
Great video! I personally am struggling with combining the feet. I am able to play 8th notes with a single foot at ~190bpm but i always automatically switch to unisons when playing with both feet. Did you have this problem too? What did you do to solve it? I'm practising for quite a while now...
I think this happens to a lot of people. And yes, it did happen to me at the start. If you concentrate and practice correctly, you should be able to seperate the feet quite soon. What helped me personally (this applies to flat foot and ankle) is to have the pattern in mind (like 'takatakatakataka..., you know). Somehow when you think less about the body and more about what it is you want to play, it gets easier, or in other words, your mind doesn't get in the way. If you are able to play 8ths with seperate feet, you should be able to combine them. Don't stop and don't overthink it. Nice question though. If anybody has a good tip here, please comment. ;)
@@AugustinasBeksta Thank you! I will try that!
I agree this is the only way to learn. It takes patience for a long time
Maybe not the only way. But it's definetly the only one that worked for me.
This is a really good Video, but my question is.. I Do not use Triggers.. I always have my doubts to play fast tempos with the ancle Motion without any trigger..is there enough Power envolved without using the whole leg.
I believe power comes with time. After getting the motion down, you'll be able to play with more power, but it'll come later.
Like you, I've been playing double bass with my upper legs, but when I started faster songs, it doesn't work and I look funny, like shaking left and right too much. But the problem is, when I try to incorporate the ankles and the calves only, those muscles don't even have the power to push the pedal down.
Your muscles get stronger with practice. At first it will be a weaker hit, but in time your calves will get use to it and power will come.
@@AugustinasBeksta Thanks for your reply and encouragment!
I had this same problem. Less spring tension helped me get it all under control and then I was able to slowly increase the tension on the springs to get the pedals back where I had them before. Give that a try and see if it helps!
For me, I’m still a nooby drummer of under a year, but practicing 1 foot at a time is dandy and all, but soon as I try to put both feet together for double bass, the strokes become gallopy or in unison rather than that constant machine gun sound where it’s even strokes back and forth. So when practicing each foot at a time, the ankle motion naturally wants to be fast because it’s twitchy like you said, but how does one start fast and put both feet together and have control? Cause I think it’s harder to do the ankle motion at a slower tempo than faster tempo, no? And even at slower tempos I’ll still struggle for those solid good even strokes, so how does one make the jump to this fast twitch motion with the ankle technique and get both feet to be even and controlled and not super sloppy lol.
Hi again! Got a question, i do the exercises you do to a metronome att around 175bpm and the right foot has no problem playing totally relaxed but me left stuggle. I’ll try to build it up but wouldn’t it be bad to practise straight 8th notes to metronome for the left? I mean wouldn’t that get the left foot used to playing on beat and then you’d just end up with flams when trying ti combine the feet?
Hey, Nils. It's perfectly fine to play on the beat with your left and then play it off beat when combining the feet together. The metronome is just there so you keep track and control. Your goal is the correct motion. Don't overthink it too much. ;)
@@AugustinasBeksta That's awesome man! Then i'll just try to build my left foot up now so I can play completely relaxed with both feet! Thanks again!
@@KarlstadDrums Good luck dude!
Do you have to use a high throne for this to work? Also can you speed up your twitch with enough practice to improve speed?
I don't sit high. Actually my sitting position is very standart. Knees just a bit below my hips, so that when I raise my heel they become parallel.
It is possible. Once you get the motion right, it's not twitching anymore, it's controlled motion, and yes, you can speed it up.
@@AugustinasBeksta thanks man! Super good video btw
Hey Augustinas, I want to try that too, thanks! Maybe you can answer to my two questions, that would be awesome.
1. When you say "the normal contraction" of one foot from the ankle movement, you mean the automatic, uncontrolled oscillation of the foot at the untrained beginning, right? And when you say this was 175 bpm for you, you mean 175 double beats, so actually 350 beats per minute, right?
2. The normal oscillation of the foot out of the ankle can't be controlled at all in the beginning. The foot is just running at one speed. For me, by the way, it's different speeds for both feet. So how can you merge / combine them together so that they are performing a clean, double speeded beat? Does that come with time if you keep one single foot at its default speed for a long time? Or have I misunderstood something?
Hey.
1. 8th notes at 175 bpm. 350 would be crazy :D
2. I'd work on slowing down the faster foot and speeding up the slower one. Keep practicing very consciuosly. Observe the ankle movements and you'll get it.
@@AugustinasBeksta Ok, thanks, I will try that. 175 8ths for sure :D
how long it take you to learn the twitching? ive been trying to combine both feet with it but it just sounds horrible lol, not in sync at all so hard to control. but with one foot i can go really fast with it but it seems to take me like 3 beater swings to get it really going... any tips?
I was able to control my ankles at around 175 bpm quite quick (maybe a week or so). Then I started learning how to speed it up and slow it down, which was a whole different story. It does take a long time and control doesn't happen overnight. Best of luck! Don't give up ;)
@@AugustinasBeksta I can do super fast with both feet alone but combining them is so hard haha, I will keep on practicing thanks!
Hello Augustinas! It's me again 🙂 The Ankle Motion works better and better, but I'm using with my right Feet (the weaker) a lower Spring Tension as on my left Pedal (my strong Feet). How is it with You? Is this bad and should I try to adapt the Spring tension in the Future?
Thanx for Answer ❗👌🏻
I would tune the springs identically. ;)
@@AugustinasBeksta Thanx❗🙂
I dont get it, off the pedals you practice with your toes on the ground and heel up then pressing your heal down and repeating but if your toes are already on the pedal, the beater is already touching the drum from the pressure in the toes, so when you put your heal down, nothing happens. Can someone explain what I’m doing wrong or what I misunderstood
Thank you for the video! What's your spring tension at?
You're welcome. It's exactly in the middle.
@@AugustinasBeksta thank you! 🤘
Augustinas have you passed the 200 bpm mark? You told something important that is the same I did on my gym workouts. Thinking about the muscle group you are working on. Even with your video this is still really difficult and the learning curve is very irregular. 😥 Please reply with your IG or FB so we can chat. Thank you for the video!!!
Sure thing.
I have a question, because my natural frequency of vibration of the foot is around 190, it has been the first time in many years that I have managed to do that speed, so thank you very muchfor the video, now the question, how do I go down to 170 which is a speed that I would like to reach since with the full leg I can't
Thanks for the comment. What worked for me was to make bigger movements with my heels (if that makes sense). Increasing the range of motion how much the heel drops and how much it lifts up. That's how I managed to slow down to 160. But I play flat foot up to 170. From there it changes to ankle.
I have been working for a long time to climb more than 165 with full leg motion but it is impossible for me since my legs get tired very fast
@@amadorcasado2577 For me it's a mix of full flat foot and ankle at that tempo, not all leg.
@@AugustinasBeksta I just exploded my head, I mean, you can mix the techniques?, I had never heard it I thought it had to be either one or the other
@@amadorcasado2577 Well sort of yes. There's a mix of leg motion and ankle involvement.
Im struggling to coordinate both feet, im comfortable playing 8th notes at 170-180 with each feet, but when I try to play 16th notes I just lose balance, sometimes I manage to do it but is very inconsistent, any advice?
One thing comes to mind. When I didn't know how to do it correctly, I would lift my whole legs up and then move my ankles which would throw me off balace. Now I don't have balance issues because actually I keep the weigth of my legs on the pedals (a bit of pressure). So in my case the solution was just to raise the heel instead of the whole leg. Hope this helps. ;)
Also, when practicing one foot at a time, lift the other heel (that you're not using). This will teach you some balance as you won't be relying on your other leg to keep your balance.
Please may you help me out, I've been trying to learn this technique throughout lockdown so I can advance in double base speed, however I am firstly really struggling to control my tempo, please can you tell me how to control the tempo, and secondly I am struggling to sync the two feet together, I guess that just comes with practice however is there a way to control speed easily?
What worked for me was first to control my natural tempo and after that trying to speed up/slow down. Combining the feet is a matter of practice. One thing I find useful is hearing what I want in my head (sounds like 'taga taga taga taga...' :D ). Somehow when I know what it's supposed to sound, it gets easier. "
@@AugustinasBeksta cool, I'll try that out now, thank you very much!
@@hotdoge5182 Good luck! Hope you get it!
@@AugustinasBeksta sorry, I'm also struggling with starting off straight away, it takes about two seconds to get a constant rythm, is there any reason for that or a mistake that I'm making?
@@hotdoge5182 There's a certain technique you have to get used to when starting/stopping. I start with my foot parallel to the ground and stop with raising my heel. See Marthyn's video on this ;)
It is so hard to get this down. The thing I hate the most is the time you need to recover. The days you have to rest. It’s like push ups you need the time to recover between sessions to be able to do more next time. I wanna keep going, but it starts having a negative effect. The progress is so incremental it drives me crazy.
I feel you. In a way it is a psychological endeavour as well as a physical one. But I feel that the ankle motion is not as tiring as say full leg motion. I didn't (and still don't) need more than one day off after prcticing it for say three days. The best thing above all else for me is good quality sleep.
Hi. I like you video. How long it took to reach that speed?
Hi. It's hard to tell. Once I got the motion down, speed came quite quick.
@@AugustinasBeksta thanks
What would you say if I could do a run of 200-210 BPM with both feet, but then it falls apart whenever I try adding the hands? :/
Hey. I'd say start building a beat from scratch. When you have your feet going, add a quarter note ride pattern. When you have that locked in, add the snare and so on. Start simple, so that you give your brain some time to adjust.
@@AugustinasBeksta thank you very much!!! I will try that
Can you please explain how to combine the feet together I just cannot alternate
Can you alternate at a slow tempo using your legs? If not, start slow and build up the tempo up. If you're already into double bass and it's only an issue with the ankle technique, try doing bursts. Like 3, 5, 7, 9 hits. This helped me.
@@AugustinasBeksta Ill come back to this thank you for the advice!
How high is your spring tension and how far back are you beaters
Weird I forgot to mention this in the video. Medium spring tension, beaters strike about 2 cm above the center of the head, beater angle is around 45 degrees and I use the blue cam on my Eliminators. Basically all mid settings. I have a close up posted on my Instagram.
Ok thanls
So i can do really good singles with this technique but my doubles aren't up to par. When i try to speed my doubles up my upper legs start to move again
You mean doubles like RRLLRRLL?
@@AugustinasBeksta no like RLRLRLRL.
@@jonseay8887 So that would be a single stroke roll, not doubles.
If your legs still tense up, my guess is that you still don't have the isolated ankle motion in your muscle memory.
I could give much more accurate feedback if I saw your actual movement. Feel free to contact me via email or facebook ;)
@@AugustinasBeksta i contacted you via Instagram.
Doesn’t this require triggers to even be heard during practice?
Not necessarily. It is possible to play ankle motion with power. Up to a certain tempo of course.
Before I had triggers I used to mic my kick and have it going through the PA in my practice space. That worked really well.
I use the same that you describe.. i started like 6 years before UA-cam and i could not understand how ppl played so quick. Like Nils Fjällström (Back thenthen he played in Chastisement) and i could not find foot angle cams to help me in the right direction. so not until 2011 i discoverd my techniqe by a fluke by myself. this is from 2018 when i just switched to "Trick Dominator" pedals wich made me be able to play 100-230bpm in 16ths. Tempo in the clip maybe around 190-200 no metronome. ua-cam.com/video/Io78Gedo0Ho/v-deo.html
Nice snare tone in that vid. ;)
@@AugustinasBeksta Mapex Black Panther 1.2mm Brass. Its a beast of snare :D
The SECOND I try to use both feet they sync up and I end up in unison, which is infuriating
Is it like a twitch type of thing?
Kind of. At first. It becomes controllable with time.
Do u feel like this is an un-natural movement at first? It feels like your first instinct is to push the pedal down with your toes/shins. Thoughts?
Starting to isolate the calve muscles felt quite natural, but uncontrolled. It was hard to get it to slow down or speed up.
You using triggers?
Yes.
@@AugustinasBeksta In your opinion what's the highest bpm you can play before bass drum becomes inaudible in rehearsal situation?
@@Bukoke Oh man, it really depends on technique and it's different for every player. For me it's somewhere around 210-220 when I need triggers to hear the bass drum. I know there are some players who hit real hard on these tempos, so there's no one answer.
@@AugustinasBeksta Thank you for the answer! I was under impression that hit power goes away starting at 170 or smth, so triggers are being used from that point onward. Well, thanks for info and have a blast!
You should get a lamp.
Yes I should.
@@AugustinasBeksta @Augustinas Beksta Was just sayin' 😁 Also, great video. I'm learning double bass right now and this is good advice. You helped me notice that I was relying a lot on my upper thighs as well. Using my calves more really helps.
@@GamingInGeneral Thank you! :)
Twitching is not drumming. Anybody can sit and twitch and I see lots of kids do it, but that is not the way to go. You need to play and control every kick, every stroke at any tempo.
Watch Marco Minneman play higher tempos even on twi hi hats. Do you think he uses ‘twitching’ for that? Of course not. The motion is more like bouncing a basket ball.
You sound like penguinz0
Aka. Cr1tikal
Why do people say basically? Silly
shut up