Diesel Heater Waste Oil Conversion - (Part 2) Initial Testing.
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- Опубліковано 6 лют 2024
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Actual Description: In this video I test my chamber modification to see if 1. It will run at all and 2. If it does run, will it burn waste oil... - Авто та транспорт
Well done sir. I think I'm going to wrap up my waste oil experiments and just send everyone your way. I'm confident you've got this.
Thank you ! What I've come up with is more or less a range extender and not a cure all. I'll take all the support I can get, over here, but I try to never oversell what I've accomplished.
My experiments tray from this design in my next video and this is where it starts to look much more promising.
Thanks for your comment. I appreciate it.
You have created a channel with a helpful purpose. Great work ,never stop no matter the naysayers.
Thanks ! Much appreciated. I like tinkering with things.
The exhaust pizza heater eater... man that was gold , cheers I think your on the right track.
Haha... I'm glad someone enjoyed that ! I heated up a piece of bacon on the exhaust, but it would also heat pizza very well.
i really do enjoy these videos and good on vevor for supporting you!
Thanks Billy ! I appreciate your support as well as Vevor's
I really appreciate the way that you tell everyone to lower their expectations for the videos that you publish, you are spot on and should be able to see your loyal fan base now,even though your videos are quite ....... Oh well,I forgot what I was going to say.
Haha... Yes, I have a surprising number of loyal followers ! It is great motivation to keep doing what I do... and I also enjoy myself !
Most metal tubing has a "mill scale" layer of stuff on it. Maybe some of what was flaking off was that mill scale. Just FYI, if you soak a piece of new tubing in vinegar for 2 or 3 days, that scale will wash right off, which is great if you want to paint it or have it really clean for other reasons.
I think mill scale is metal oxides that are pressed / formed into the surface while forming. I may be hard to see on camera, but the oxide here was 90 + percent of the material. The centre peice literally fell apart under its own weight.
I've never tried the vinegar trick, but I have heard of that... interesting. I guess a mild acid is all it takes.
Citric acid cleaning it is better and actually an approved method to clean stainless after welding and processing for medical and oil industry.
But i think you need to find a better stainless steel grade as the original china part obviously holds up much better
@@tullgutten I have used stainless 304 and 316 thinking that it would hold up really well, and it completely fell apart. I don't fully understand it, but stainless is a very reactive metal. I have heard this when people are welding stainless, you have to "back burge" it so that the inside of your tube or back side of your weld doesn't oxidize.
You will see in my video released later today, how harsh the conditions are inside of the burn chamber.
Nice one Joel. Looking forward to the the next installment!
Hey Shane ! There is another after this out now, but I hope to have an update up for Wednesday.
Great compilation, enjoyed it. 👍
Glad to hear. I see you saw the accidental pre release of the video... I scheduled it for 3am instead of 3pm, my time, haha.
I'm loving every minute of this.
Good to hear ! I enjoy it as well.
Looked fun can't wait for the next video
Haha... yes, it was fun. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so.
Could you do more content on diesel heaters using just the fancy stuff AKA: regular fuel? For us less adventurous types. 😄
Haha... Yes... I will be doing much more testing with diesel heaters actually burning diesel. I do have at least a few more waste oil heater videos coming back to back... Then I will have some testing on the Maxspeedingrods heater as well as scavenging heat from exhaust gasses.👍
Less adventurous = sensible🤣
Very interesting, thank you and continue with this progress
Thanks !
I have a few friends who have waste oil furnace, and they had lots of poor combustion issues, before they started using a centrifuge 😊
Yeah... a centrifuge is a great tool for cleaning oil. They even get a decent amount of moisture out. I thought about building one last year, but it's not something I really want to get into currently.
Keep going!
🤟 yes I will... I have some fun ideas coming up.
I could smell this at my house.
I could smell you, at my house 🍪 haha.
Diesel flavor Pizza the Best!
Haha... I'm glad someone commented on this ! haha.
Without failure, there is no learning. I think it would be better if you make the nozzle of the adapter you made a bit longer so that it goes inside the modified burn chamber when it finally releases the used oil. In other words, don't let the used oil drops chaotically repelled by the force of the burning flame towards the inner surface of the heat exchanger. You can see what I'm talking about on Karl's Off Road channel, especially these two videos ElVDjFO--7U and ZJaHFFqZwyk. Just my thought. I'm no expert.
I sure have learned a LOT through my failures, that for sure. You will be happy to see the design that I try in my next video.
Good job!!!
Thanks !
Good stuff!
Thanks ! Appreciated.
OOOOh, it almost sounded like you had ignition sequence start and were on ur way to beating Musk to Mars.
^.^
Haha🤟
Great work so far, but something worth keeping in mind for those who want to burn waste oil, in my country (Australia) the cost of a new burn chamber is equivalent to burning just 8 litres of diesel in a 2kW and 10 litres in a 5kW, beyond that you're way in front cost wise.
Yeah... the chambers aren't that expensive.
If you are burning strait waste oil, you will likely only get about maybe 8 hours of use before having to replace the chamber, so it's partly cost and partly a pain in the butt.
I'm not sure that it is going to work, but it would be nice to have a heater that will run reliably for 40 hours or so before having to be cleaned.
@@loweredexpectations4927I get quite some time with mine, but I have dual fuel where I switch from waste oil mix to diesel/shellite mix. I start on the diesel shellite until temp is stable, then switch to diesel only after the pump has slowed to a stable minimal speed. About 30 minutes before shutdown I switch back then run the temp up to maximum for about ten minutes. I notice occasional sparks coming from the exhaust when doing this (when short) indicating solids are burning off.
I only physically clean it when it stops igniting properly, but it's a long time between needing any attention. If I only ran the diesel oil mix with warm shutdown it would be much more frequent.
@@alasdair4161 What sort of waste oil are you burning ?
In the next video I how the setup that I used last year. I have done many tests starting on diesel, running all sorts of different mixes, usually 70% waste engine oil, 25% diesel and 5% gasoline.
I had heat sensors on the back of the burn chamber so that I could monitor temps and only start injecting the waste oil mix when it was at full temp. I had plenty of times where my heater would burn very clean (no smoke at all and very little or no carbon) but a yellow white ash would build up within a day of operating.
I never had this stuff analized, but it was consumed by heat or acid. I tried burning it with a torch with no effect at all, and left it sit in sulphuric acid without any effect.
I have seen sparks come out of my heater when running on diesel, this is generally due to carbon being consumed. Running on diesel, especially at a somewhat lean ratio, will consume carbon, but the ash can't be consumed in this way.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Have you considered trying two fuel pumps? I run a 16ml for oil mix and a 22ml for diesel.
(I think it's 16 but may be 18 from memory) The oil as you know burns slower and hotter, so you need less of it.
I have three different waste oil types on hand, 0W20 car oil, Hydraulic oil from an excavator and regular car engine oil mixed with ATF. So far I've been using the 0W20 as the cars it comes from are not polluting it, it's still clear after 10K.
I only get the sparks when I crank it up after a long run, but I don't watch the exhaust outlet much at other times.
@@alasdair4161 I am actually going to be running the heater off two different pumps and ECUs in an upcoming video. I was testing the basic ideas before going to deep into that, but I think I'm ready now. Yes, they make several different pump sizes. The issue is that the ECU will only run one pump (as far as I know) as it will see the added load / change in resistance as a fault, shutdown and throw an error code.
I did a bunch of mods to my heater, last year, and was able to burn the same quality of oil as I would have with diesel, but yes, it generally burns slower and takes a LOT more heat to ignite. I have heard that Hydraulic oil and ATF burns with a LOT less residue left behind and some new oils are ultra low ash, typically 0W oils.
The oil that I have access to is mostly eco oil for lawnmowers and small engine equipment, so just about the dirtiest stuff you can get, probably. I did try with some new (out of the bottle) Motul motorcycle engine oil, and that did not go well either... I can't remember exactly what happened but it was worse than used oil.
Good stuff, don't forget the fan is blowing air through the tube. Much better idea to come in from the side.
I got my new motherboard and the 28ml pump today after all.
It's one of the blue controllers, only a 5kw board but it has the admin adjustable screen. I just took the BT board off and used that heater to test it out with. Max 180C with the new one. Probably make adjustments and try with propane in the morning.
Yeah... I had hoped that the velocity of the air / gasses were low enough that it heat the oil and disperse it, but it appears it is faster than expected.
The exhaust ports are only 3/4 of an inch inside diameter. and the burn tube is twice that, so the air should be moving twice as slow.... apparently not slow enough. My original idea was to con in from the side, but figured if this worked it would be really easy for anyone to do.
You installed the new ECU and just ran it at whatever settings it came with ? I assume you will be able to get it cooking once you start playing with the settings, haha.
Tried the 28ml pump on the one in Alpine mode, got it running around the 180C mark, but the temps started to drop in a few hours. Changed back to the 22 to try and burn out the chamber, but its still low this morning. I would imagine it's pretty black inside...lol
@@kirkwalsh1932 HAHA... OH no .... Have you tried running the original on alpine mode ? That may burn up some of the carbon and bring it back to life. The low temp is just the temp of the exchanger, so the burn chamber will be just as hot. If you run it lean, the excess oxygen may clean up the carbon... I would not leave it unattended for long though as the carbon in the exhaust may ignite and make the pipe glow red.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I put the propane on this morning, left it for a few hours. Seems to be back to normal now. Temp is at the 210C mark again.
I tried the 28ml on the bigger body and the Maxpeedingrod ECU, didn't get anything more out of it, temp settled around 215-220C. Might go out later and try the other ECU.
@@kirkwalsh1932 Awesome. Carbon will burn out if you get it hot and there is any oxygen left over.
That's odd about the larger heater. Can you hear if the pump is slowing down when the heater gets hot... like the other one at 210C ... Have you checked to see if you are getting black smoke out the exhaust ?
Go spend a few dollars on a set of muffler pipe expanders. Well worth it for pipe work.
That would certainly work a whole lot better.
You can do the same thing with a spark plug ceramic top as a tool bit on the lathe and flare it out.
Hmmm. I've never tried that. My tubing started as square tube and I used a hammer and bar stock in my vice to make it into something resembling a round tube... Far from perfect.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you do next 👍my prediction on how this would go were pretty much spot on then. The clip at the end of the video was that with oil it must be as the flames shouldn't reach the end of the burn chamber running it just on diesel with plenty of air. I'm wondering if you could turn the hole in the end of the heat exchanger into a porthole that you can poke the endoscope camera into it will need to be protected from the heat maybe using ceramic tube and working like a periscope
Haha... yes, I was thinking about what you said while I was testing this. I recorded a clip talking about how I had underestimated the effect from the existing gases, but didn't use it because it turned into a long rant... I don't think I used it 🤔... It's all kind of a blur.
Yeah, the flame is pretty tame with just diesel. I have thought about a way to make a porthole for looking in... I'm not sure what clear material could withstand the temp. It would have to be removable as it gets dirty pretty quickly, when burning waste oil.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I don't know exactly how to make it work but I'm thinking something that works like a gun scope or periscope that fits into a heat resistant tube I've seen videos where people turn bread into heat proof materials so I guess it can't be to hard 🤔
@@colinhamer6506 Insulating can be done, for sure, and will take care of part of the problem. The periscope glass or camera lense will be exposed to some pretty intense heat though. Perhaps a clear borosilicate glass rod fitted into the hole. I have been able to find tubes, but not solid rods.
Hi man. , did you ever do a fuel consumption vs heat video on the new 8kw heater with the bigger heat sink body and the larger output hose ( it was tan in colour ) cheers 🍻
Hey. I haven't done the tests yet... I expect to to get that done in the next week or so.
Let’s go!
🤟
Interesting ! Since we dont know the next video I'm thinking aome sort of coil setup internally to heat and also get the oil closer to its destination ?
I would love to do that, unfortunately, as you will see in today's video, the conditions in the burn chamber are extremely unforgiving. I'm not sure what material would be able to survive in there.
Maybe inconel. I could probably coil it inside the heat exchanger, but not the burn chamber.
I just watched something on Prohibition and they were using the moonshine to run their vehicles and such. Have you tried Moonshine to run the heater?! Please do!!! As always, thank you for everything you’re doing!
They said it burned soooooo clean. Hmmmm 🤔
HAHA...... I have had a few propel suggest this. I did try pure Methanol last year. Alcohol is about 30% less power dense than diesel, so you have to burn a LOT of it to make heat (or power) but it can be done.
I think with the mods that I'm doing, just about any secondary fuel could be added as long as the primary fuel is kept running on low. We will see ! haha.
Yes, I would imagine that it would burn pretty clean. Lots of water vapour but alcohol burns very clean.
maybe a pipe within a pipe will help keep the internal fuel pipe from coking up if you extend it down. say an angled compression fitting for the larger diameter pipe with some air forced down and the compression fitting drilled through the top to have the fuel pipe slid inside? maybe worth it for proof of concept. not saying I'm going in that direction but just got some 316 tubing from ebay 😉
Haha... I think that could work for that part of it. I will say that that isn't the main challenge that I ran into, however.
I was quickly reminded of my testing from last year, where anything I put in the chamber was consumed by the high heat and oxidizing environment. I will have a video out tomorrow that shows the issues I had and the new direction I have chosen.
This is a good call. On a oil burner I made from an old cast iron pot belly stove, I used 3/4" black steel pipe as the sleeve with 3/8 copper inside as the drip feed. I then blew air down the 3/4 for the burn and that also kept the copper cool enough not to melt.
@@shanehogarth6373 Something like this could work. I have been having decent success with my recent testing, but I think I need to inject more air to help it clean up some.
I don't have any visible smoke, and the ash seems to be under control (for my 25 hours of testing) but the CO levels are higher than I would like, and it smells like an old car running.
The Chamber of Ash
Sounds like a Harry Potter movie.
Hey it's back!
Haha... you're talking about the old burn head SNA thing ? I have a pump coming from Vevor and am going to try running it without any annoying electronics.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I'm talking about waste oil burning in general. Nice I can't wait to see them.
@@lanceulbrich6249 Haha... oh, yes. That. My most recent testing is my most promising results so far, as for a diesel heater basically still being a diesel heater.
I got one of those pump you have, the diaphragm aquarium pump... Vevor had one 50W unit left in Canada and I snatched it up...
@@loweredexpectations4927 cool I can't wait to see the results
I think you should try running that heater on hydro diesel warped perception did a video on it a couple years ago
Hydro diesel eh... Never heard of it. OH... ok. I just watched the intro to his video and have had a few people suggest this in the past.
I will try it if it is something that I can make (within reason) but I'm fairly certain that it will not go well at all, in a heater. The reason this works well in diesel engines is that they produce too much heat and the water provides cooling while also adding pressure / expansion of gases.
These heaters struggle to stay hot enough, and their only job is to make heat energy. Anything that reduces heat is almost certainly going to cause issues with soot. The expanding gases from the water could also cause pressure / venting issues. Meaning, an excessive amount of gases trying to leave the exhaust causing pressure to build higher than normal.
Understandable I don't know much about that stuff either still think it'd be cool to try and run it on it see what it does
@@adamgaffer3991 For sure ! Thinking something might not work has never stopped me from trying it in the past ! haha.
Have you tried your custom burner with this modification? Would be interesting and if you could run it upside down that it blows flame downwards would maybe burn hotter.
Anyways great video as always ;b
I tested the custom insert that I made, but have not tested my custom burn chamber that I made last year. I hope to do that soon. I may be able to run that one with the flame pointed down.
@@loweredexpectations4927 yeah if I think about it it's a great idea. But I don't have the tools to make that stuff myself :(
One day..
Joel your better off using a tuneable ecu/controller so you can tweak it better.
Yeah, I don't have one now, but I have plans get one.
The best way to burn waste oil is to distill it into waste oil distillate and burn the clean distillate
That's the second best way... the best way is to put it into a Dodge ...🤣 Jk... that just popped into my head.
I would love to distill waste oil. Looks like it would be a lot of fun, but I don't think I want to try that in a residential area.
@@loweredexpectations4927 As long as you burn the flare gas out of the distillation then you are good! It won't produce any unpleasant odors or smells, also the pipe for waste flare gas can be really long, like 50m
What about insulating the long oil drip tube with ceramic wool, that would insulate it and stop it getting too hot and burning/clogging. The cool oil flowing through it + insulation should cool it.
Also did I miss how you are controlling the 2nd oil fuel pump?
When you see todays video ... You will see that the injector tube is not the biggest problem with this design... and it surprisingly stood up to the heat okay...
I am using drip feed into the primary (original) chamber and the pump for the secondary.
I do wonder at what point the fuel savings become cost prohibitive due to increased wear and tear plus down time cleaning. I certainly find all of this interesting, I just am seeing that it is less and less feasible as "cost saving"
Even if this was a kit or a premade heater that ran well in the beginning, I could still see this needing fairly regular tear downs. I genuinely wonder if the tear downs, gaskets, extra wear on chambers, and the glow plugs, if oil is even worth remotely running in a heater, vs just straight diesel.
Absolutely. The idea of this is to find the cleanest / most efficient way to burn waste oil, so that the cleaning 1. has to be done less regularly and 2. so that at some point in the future, the cleaning can be automated.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I really look forward to your continued progress! It would seem you are at least making head way!
In addition to your new fuel input at the end of the heat exchanger, adding a cupper coil to vaporize the oil (inside the chamber) first to prevent the oil to spit everywhere in the chamber a good idea?
I think I get what you mean... That may be a great idea. As you will see in the next video I am having some issues with other things due to the ... harshness of the burn chamber.
The true test and question we all want answered is: Does the heater keep the pizza 🍕 slice warm?
Haha... It warmed up my bacon on the exhaust and is able to keep pizza warm, also.
Try the original WEBASTO fuel line! They are more durable!
Are you referring to the fast that the stuff I used melted ?
@@loweredexpectations4927 exactly! This is what I'm talking about! ✌️
Can you not insert the extension line into the burn chamber on the end so it goes right thru the heat exchanger threaded fitting you made
I was concerned that this would have a few bad side effects ... You will see why I was concerned in my next video... Friday, I hope. The conditions inside the chamber are pretty harsh and I had a lot of issues with putting stuff in there, last year.
@loweredexpectations4927 to mitigate vapor expansion a check valve outside the case would be good.
so now my heater blower broke after making noise for 2 month. it ran for a year with no problems or noise. is there a better motor/bering on the market?
You can get upgraded bearings for them. I have had really good luck just replacing the motor. I think most of them are really good... they just sometimes have quality control issues.
Okay i will buy a new and a spare motor, well i think it burned 1000l so im pretty pleased - they are not made for that kind of use. i had a spare heater. But Vevor should make a longer lasting house/cabin model, i would pay 2-3 time more if it was quality perhaps less noise - and and think many would after using up one of the cheap. cause its a awsome unite but things can get too cheap @@loweredexpectations4927
Why don't you use your sandblaster to clean your thing
The crud that needs to be cleaned out is behind a baffle and isn't accessible with a sand blaster. The main part that gets clogged is a mesh at the bottom of the burn tube, behind the baffle.
This would also be death to my sand blasting media, haha... But I would do it anyway, if it worked.
Maybe the ultrasonic cleaner….
@@markcoyle8003 That would likely work much better, but I think it would need to be run for days to break up that nasty stuff.
🤟🏻🤟🏻👑🤟🏻👑👑🤟🏻
🤟👌
Question for the community. I've been successfully heating half of my house with one of these units but am on my 3rd pump in 3 months. So they have a horrible failure rate? Or am I just unlucky?
Wow.... that seems like terrible luck. What seems to be happening ?
I have been using the same pump from my original heater. It has hundreds of hours of use burning waste oil, gasoline, alcohol etc... no issues at all.
@@loweredexpectations4927 not sure. It's like they slowly wear out. First I noticed more cavitation and then a reduced output temperature. Then it just stops ticking and pumping. Replace it with a new unit and I'm back up and running. The original one came from China via Walmart and the two replacements were via Amazon. So is the current one but it's got a green colored plug as opposed to black. I've also ordered some direct via Ali-Express so I will have a backup ready. I have been running the unit about 2 thirds of every day so it's getting tons of use... I will report back if I find a decent pump or find out what distinguishes the good from the bad. The Webasto official pumps are like $400!!
@@deleteduser3749 That's crazy. I have 5 heaters now and haven't had a single pump issue. Most of my heaters don't' have many hours on them, but still...For you to have so many failures is very strange.
Are you gravity feeding yoru pumps, do you have the pump below the bottom of your fuel tank ? If you are forcing the pump to pull fuel up out of the tank, this will lead to more cavitation and possible damage the pump.
$400 is a lot to pay for a pump. I'm guessing they are good, haha, but that's a LOT.
@@loweredexpectations4927 the tank, that came with the unit, is mounted about 2+ feet below the pump and the pump is another 2+ feet below the heater. I would prefer to mount the tank higher but I have the unit installed in a window (like an AC unit would be) and the heater is on its side. I guess the correct side because the fuel goes in and down into the burn chamber. It may be the extra lifting work the pump is having to do, but I'm pretty sure the manual says I'm within spec. But maybe spec. isn't ideal. I will try mounting the tank higher. I was hoping to switch to a 30 gallon drum once I got this all figured out and reliable. Refilling this thing every other day sucks. Then I'll use a battery and solar panel so everything but the unit and control panel is inside the house.
@@deleteduser3749 Yeah... That's the only thing I can think of ... despite it being in spec. The lower pressure feeding into the pump is going to mean that it cavitates with every single pulse.
If you don't want to change your tank location, you could use a 12V lower pressure fuel pump between the tank and pump to feed a little pressure to the dosing pump. You can get them for small engine equipment (that use carburetors) and they deliver 3-4 psi... I think they are a diaphragm pump and not susceptible to damage.
I do want to see more nonsense like this.
Haha... That's great ! I do have more nonsense like this coming !
First 😂
Haah No only were you first, but you were first on my accidental release of the video. I wasn't supposed to go live for another 12 hours. Oops.
Unsubscribing to the Vevor channel.
Your expectations weren’t low enough? 😜
What does that even mean.. 😅
🤷♂️ I do promote Vevor products, as well as other products that I think my Audience would be interested in, and most of it happens to be from vevor. My channel would not exist without Vevor... so I'm grateful.
One of my last videos was an Amazon product from MaxPeedingRods. I about currently shooting a video on another Amazon (teslong) product, I have made videos about the Bureck CD Thermostat from the US and I have a Canadian company sending me a fuel additive to test in my heater.
None of this would have happened if not for Vevor.
Clever, haha.
I guess I mentioned Vevor too many times.