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@@peliac7319 How much is some? It could be 0.001% of the World Population and that would still be more people than subscribers on this channel. Also, "No matter what" is a terrible qualifier, even with perfect genetics for leanness you could out eat that 10% mark. Something more useful would be "without noticeable side effects".
@@peliac7319 I've met people who revert to 9 percent body fat with out even trying so yes 100 percent. They are real weirdos. They can eat like 2000 cslories a day, feel fine and not even care. They have to make a deliberate concoius effort to eat more
Greg: "without drugs and/or being genetically elite, you won't be shit" Jeff: "everyone can do what the genetically elite people on steroids can do with this simple trick"
😂😂😂 that's what I dislike about greg now. He used to be awesome, it's healthy what he promotes but its just so unmotivating now. In a dm I said wanted to go from 20 percent to 15 and he said I should just accept my genetics and maingain. Like huh? What's wrong with trying to do a little harder than last time. He's a complex guy.
@@6pac. thank you I'm not sure why he said that. My body fat set point does seem to be want to be taking me back to the upper teens whenever i finish a diet but i believe a set point can be lowered? Takes a lot of dicipline and getting used to sitting at that level. I'm around 17 -18 atm. I seem to screw up whenever I cut so im going to try eat around maintencne and slowly recomp to around 15 or do a proper cut later.
I fluctuate between 8%-15% BF throughout the year, & it amazes me how some people react when I’m on the higher end as if I’m FitFlabb & a total slob. That’s still well within the healthy range & actually way above average, but social media totally distorts that reality.....
that is a great point. I am 18 years old and I do not use social media besides youtube due to that. Men's and Women's expectations have been set to an impossible level. I would say I about 15.5-17% body fat. I am healthy and feel fine at this body fat. I have never dieted to see how lean I could get without health issues. I Will start soon to get to 12-14 percent and see how I feel.
@@ready4itall89 facts. This video was very informative. I will try to do what Greg doucette advocates for in maingaining. I will cut down to 12-15 percent and if I feel fine their, I will stay
@@buffrhino6504 Thanks pal, really appreciate you saying that! 💪 Sorry I haven’t put out a new video in a bit. My video editing computer broke & took almost 2 months to get repaired, but finally back at work on my next one.
I’d have to say that I do the opposite and in fact demote unrealistic body images. I constantly tell people to close their eyes and imagine their dream physique and tell them they are not getting it. HALF WAY THERE I tell people. Also I tell people to maintain a realistic bodyweight they can maintain that does not cause them to suffer or have low energy or be starving and have energy. I would say I likely of ALL youtubers I’ve seen tell people that Genetics decides your faith more then most and so definitely do not promote unrealistic body images. I’d say some would think I promote body dismorphia just because I am lean and so people would compare my lean physique to there own and so it could make it worse but as said in the video I definitely explain repeatedly the difficulties and the ‘NIGHTMARE” of trying to be too lean
So many people including people I know say that Olympia or bodybuilder competitors are natty it’s sad they don’t know the truth and have unrealistic expectations. Also btw best ever food review show shouted you out and shared his weight loss story. A reaction to it would be great. I love his channel as well
Yeah , but you just said the same exact thing as him. The points you mentioned @Greg are the points @Geoffery mentioned while discussing about you sparking some body dysmorphia. Personally i don't think you promote that...the people that are dumb AF would get fixated on body dysmorphia from you.
@@jugheadsrule Yes because you are confusing his physique with what he ACTUALLY SAYS on the subject. Just BEING LEAN doesn't mean you PROMOTE IT. It means you ARE lean. What a person SAYS is what they promote. You must be young because you can't figure out the difference.
I think without having watched Greg's content I would have never realized that being incredibly shredded shouldn't be my goal and that people shouldn't aspire to the standards of influencers. I definitely believe Greg's content helps prevent body dysmorphia.
Man, AthleanX every time falls further from grace in my eyes. 1) Breathe out before you squat 2) Grow biceps in one month 3) Fake weights 4) Idiotic extreme variance and volume in overpriced cookie cutter programs 5) Selling bodyfat
Yessur. And his stupid worthless supplements that do close to nothing lmao. He couldn't even say sorry to his viewers for faking the lifts, he is such an ego God. Lul
@@tijus2675 he said it a lot I remember he had a video about body fat% where he would say multiple times that 5% is what he recommends, as healthy and blablabla. Surreal, lol
Yes and his dumb diet that you basically never supposed to eat anything tasty. Food is one of the best things in life, to torture yourself like that is pointless and a waste.
Once at my gym an overweight lady asked a gym coach how to lose 15 kg in couple of weeks for the wedding. He looked at her and answered "cut off your leg". It wasn't nice however the idea wasn't entirely wrong :D
When my mom had to have her lower leg amputated, she actually referred to it as her overnight 5kg diet. She however added she can't recommend it, since it really did not do a lot for her waistline. That woman has an inspiring amount of humour.
Did you see the pic Jeff Nippard posted on ig today? He's about 20% bodyfat rn chasing a 405 bench following in AlphaDestiny's footsteps. Much respect to him for showing that.
Yea it's funny seeing comments like "time to cut?" the minute someone in the industry goes over 15%. Another comment... "Jeff Thiccard". Anyway I think it's great. A really good example of how bodyfat ebbs and flows based on goals and season.
This video is reaffirming exactly what I’ve learned recently. I got too lean and my energy tanked, I was always angry, and my sleep suffered. Now I’m slowly gaining weight and feel the best I’ve felt in a while.
I’ll also add that even when I was highest on Athlean X as a beginner I still was like “there’s no reason to be that lean”. Even as my own personal standards for leanness have shifted to being lower in BF% I very much still think this.
@@DrOrr There’s nothing wrong with being lean or working on it, just as long as you acknowledge there’s a limit and you’re not chasing two dragons at once.
Leanness is scary. When you have that death face look, you think you look like a giga chad, but when you look at pictures after bulking back up, you realize you looked like you needed a sandwich. You peak in terms of aesthetics at like 12-14% honestly.
One aspect is where fat goes / disappears first when you force-diet or force-feed, I think. I.e. for some of us force-dieting means face starts looking starved, but you stop and it gets fine real quick (while the bodyfat percentage stays the same, more or less).
Looking back at the pictures now, 7kg heavier than my lowest, I looked like I needed a fucking tombstone or some shit, not only a sandwich. It's just saddens me to see how shredded I was but how dark that period of my life actually was, living on 2000 kcal a day, training 6x a week and getting 12k + steps daily, going to sleep tired and waking up hungry as hell and even more tired. Never diet to even 10-12% bf if you have no muscle on your frame. If you haven't already bulked up in the past and added some muscle, it's the worst idea ever to get lean, because you'll only feel like shit and look skinny. I had to buy XS shirts and change my entire wardrobe to wear tight clothes to look bigger, because I was so small in reality
@@nickal3xexactly same story here buddy..I was even measuring ketchup🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ I do measure now but to just match the protein amount and a caloric surplus
This is a common mistake as it's not necessarily unhealthy. What can (potentially) be unhealthy about exotic leanness is what's required to get there, not the actual state of leanness itself. If you have to quasi starve yourself and miss out on lots of minerals and nutrients to get to (or maintain) a certain level of body fat then that's unhealthy, but not everyone has to starve themselves or forgo important nutrients to do it.
@iBits that's just not true. You need a certain amount of body fat to function properly. Fat is an endocrine organ and is vital for your physical and mental health
AthleanX: look like an athlete that's dying Alphadestiny: everyone can bench 315 with the right coaching. Greg Doucette: You're only getting halfway to your dream physique. Jeffrey: Find out what you can achieve. This sums it up.
Alex didn’t say everyone can reach x weight. He says that most can and that the strength standards across the broad are lowballed which is he right about. Example of someone who can’t with below average genetics is natural hypertrophy who has been training for 10 years and can only bench 275. He literally says he has bad genetics. But the thing is that NH still looks pretty good with the type of physique Greg would say only 10% of guys can reach, I believe NH is 6 feet. About the same as Will Tennyson, idk if he’s 5’11 or 6 feet because he said 6 but then got measured at 5’11. Will is my poster boy of people who trained well but hasn’t reached their full potential. The dude has over 7 years of experience but only put on 4 pounds of muscle in the last 3 due to his life style. Getting past that he doesn’t do any high intensity reps/sets. Will is past the point where just doing 3x1, 4x8, etc is gonna yield optimal gains. There’s no doubt in my mind that Will can reach a 405 bench without an excessive weight gain. He could stay at 180 and hit that if he was trying within another 5 years. I’d be shocked if he ever goes for it though
@@Storiaron I'm looking back at this comment and realizing I mentioned NH training for 10 years but that's a half truth, he has more like 6 years of good training at this point. I look forward to a bench update from him
Regarding alpha destiny, Mark Rippetoe (starting strength) sets a 300 lb bench press as a standard that most men can reach within 5 years if they start lifting in their early 20’s and have a proper recovery program.
The IFBB pro Erin Stern made a comment today in response to an audience question about getting down to BF levels and keeping them there, " In bodybuilding terms, the better you look, the worse you feel".
Thank you for this content. I already knew that it wasn't realistic, and I always tell myself "they make money with their appearence" but hearing someone else say it helps as a sanity check, it helps me to know that's not "mediocrity" talking, but realism. We need more content like this.
Greg said something along the lines of "if you can't see your bottom abs you're fat". Also he likes to blackpill everyone and give them genetics dysmorphia by telling them only genetic phenoms can get any kind of results
@@Luke-id1cp he says that only genetic phenoms can be world class, however, he also encourages people to be the best that they can, even if they can't be the absolute best, so in my opinion, he isn't trying to discourage others by saying that they can't achieve anything, but rather set realistic expectations for what a normal person can achieve.
Greg's advice to set a realistic body composition goal halfway between your real current composition and your fantasy composition goal seems pretty reasonable.
So from a female perspective, (well, one anyway) I just want to confirm that to me, the 20% bods look sexy, because they look strong and durable, and considering the majority of men are overweight or obese, this 20% is still streets ahead of your contemporaries because of the shapely muscles.
Same for me with females. I find a girl with a bit of fat way more attractive than those size 0 shredded girls. Just as long as the hourglass shape stays I prefer a bit of fat.
Algo. Also, as a newbie, I followed a lot of Jeffs advice maybe 8 or 9 years ago, but man am I glad my eyes opened - dude is a quack for the most part and is part of the primary problem of the fitness industry, especially given his platform and reach. Some people get so buried in their lies that they cannot, even in this day and age where we WANT truth and transparency regardless of what supplements people take, come clean to themselves.
From my little experience reaserching this (been training nearly 2 years now) I think there's two rules I've learnt. 1 - Listen to your body, as everyone's is different. I tried getting leaner and when I dropped below 16% I FELT it when I hit 14% even if I ate enough to stay at 14% I just felt not so much hungry but just... More tired I didn't want to workout and when I forced myself to it felt so lackluster I couldn't get in the zone and push through like normal it was a;lmost like being ill. Then the moment I increased my cals even slightly my body just went straight back to 16% and I felt fine again so clearly that's just where my body wants to be. For some people it's a bit less and for others a bit more but it's better to where your body wants to be and feel good than 2% leaner and feel like shit. It's pretty easy to tell when you hit it to as not only from feeling but in my experience when you hit that % your body wants to be at even if you eat a bit more or eat a bit less unless you drastically change your diet your body just kind of stays there. 2 - Steroids don't just make you build more muscle. This was a big revelation for me, I always thought steroids just made you build more muscle but no they do so much more. They let you break all the rules because your changing how your body works, for instance they make your body be more ok with being leaner, they make it so that your comfortable % is no longer 16% but it's 8, 9, 10% because they change your bodies priorities. There are the rare outliers but 99.9% of people you see who are 10-12% BF, who look happy and comfortable and can build muscle are on steroids and you can apply this rule to pretty much every extreme. If they are able to work, train 3 times a day, eat 4500 cals, sleep 3 hours a day and be 10% BF all while still putting on mass? Guess what. There on steroids. Steriods don't just make you build more muscle, they let you build more muscle while living an unhealthy life style. They pick up the slack. I used to think I just "wasn't going hard enough" when I saw these beautiful peoples extreme training guides but now I know that there is just a limit to how hard you can go while natty before it becomes detrimental to your gains. Applying these two rules to the guides I saw, the way I felt and the things I did along with the confidence to say "You know what, I know my body" helped me to create a more balanced training program. While I know it's not perfect (and it never will be) as I still have trouble finding that line where I am training to hard as I don't want to not maximise my gains it's a damn sight better than it used to be. My lifts are going up at a moderate pace and as long as that's happening I must be doing something right.
I can say I'm at the other extreme end of the spectrum. I can't go above 16% body fat . I feel like I'm gonna puke 24/7 from all the food that I consume. I can say that I prefer 10-12%bodyfat to 15-16%. Yes I know I'm blessed from god of aesthetics cause I feel better at 10% than 15% but it makes bulking so much harder for me
@@unbrokenriven1455 - I'm with you. Also, I don't distribute fat very well, and it all goes to my neck. When I'm 12% fat or so I feel the best and I don't have a neck like Bill Gates.
I am sorry but you dropped the ball on this one...... If you actually watched Jeff’s videos you’d know that he does not promote extreme leanness in at least two of the cited videos. The first video you mention, and the one with the leanest guy on the planet video on the thumbnail.
I’m wondering if you didn’t watch the “get this shredded” or a lot of those videos because he definitely says all that. It’s click bait for sure but he discusses how hard it all is and it’s unrealistic. Most of the fitness you tubers and Instagram in general makes people promote the body image problems. Greg is pretty good for the most part besides trying to say you can get jacked by maintaining. Athlean x says the same but he’s not huge. He chooses being lean over huge
I also think a certain Hollywood physique expert could also maybe stop overselling the ' intermittent fast your way to get 100 girls on the beach' narrative. You can definitely tell Greg is aware of the body dysmorphia which often comes with the gym and he's definitely helped a lot of people out with his videos. Jeff on the other hand makes a few vids on unrealistic expectations and then contradicts himself with 22inch arms/ other clickbait and vshred looking marketing you can tell when it's just about the money, while he probably started out to help people and has done, he has definitely sacrificed integrity to grow his company that seems to be a common theme amongst big fitness channels😢
Sad that's true. He really helped me like 6 years back to build up my physique for which I do respect him somewhere in the back of my mind. He just felt more genuine back then. Maybe he's just delusional now since he got shredded. He was lean back then but not shredded.
@Josh Brett Honestly, I think this is one of the most balanced takes on Athlean-X. I loved Jeff’s videos from 4-5 years ago, but ever since the debacle from 1-2 years ago, his clickbait has gotten worse and worse. And it’s to the point where as you pointed out, he clearly contradicts himself.
Greg has explained before that you can't maingain if you are too lean and I think people misinterpret him cus he had a whole video explaining when you should and shouldn't maingain, and he said you need to be a comfortable level BF for you and maingain from there
I commend you on providing an objective review. It's no secret that Greg isn't your favorite character.. but you still have the ability to objectively seperate your opinion from your analysis.... The internet needs more of that. ✊💪🤙
3:47 He is right. I remember when I was chasing leanness,it really affected my life. I was weaker,I looked sick e.t.c Right now I'm 16% body fat and feel comfortable,I add more muscle and look more muscular under a shirt
Very helpful, informative post, thank you. this reminded me of a post, you've probably seen it,, where Jeff Cavaliere emphasizes a little too much of everyone aspiring to look like "Baywatch" actor Zac Efron
I mean Greg does say "get to a body fat that's healthy that you can maintain comfortably" not to justify him or any of the contradictory shit he's said before/after this statement. But this statement in and itself is quite a positive way to approach the aspect simply because, my comfortable and healthy body fat is 10% but the next guys might be 12% but his friends might be 16%. Outisde of this statement, both Greg and Jeff talk shit none stop.
@@dustencross357 - Correct, I'm one of them men. I've been sat at around 10% for the last 2 years or so and I'm absolutely fine. I'm also life time natural.
my only critique would be #CoachG has been very candid about the unrealistic goal of being very lean year-round and emphasizing how genetics plays a major role in your ability to be lean without major distress. he also emphasizes how the average person with average genetics to respond to both training and PEDs makes it unlikely most of us can ever achieve the 0.1-1% results of the genetically gifted of which is most of fitness influencers #TrainHARDER #HarderThanLastTime
Yeah and the video where Jeff had a thumbnail with the leanest guy on planet Jeff stresses the same thing how unrealistic it is and how genetics plays a major role and how most people should aim for 13-15% , I think this guy is judging the content by the thumbnails and not actually watching the videos
I've been hovering around you're content but was quite sure I'd enjoy it. This video instantly earned you a sub, holy shit. This needs to be the new wave of fitness content, letting people know, up front, all of the negatives of being too lean FOR THEM (some individuals may not even be able to maintain mid teens, which is FINE). I seriously think people are implicitly being told to maintain a physique that's leaner than they can maintain all of the time. For extremely vague and unsubstantiated reasons too, just saying "ah your insulin sensitivity will be better" or then "but inflammation tho". I even have seen some people say there is something unhealthy with 15-20% bodyfat (male), and then vaguely say 10% bf is optimal for FERTILITY reasons citing weird mechanistic studies as AN ARGUMENT FOR 10% BEING OPTIMAL FOR MUSCLE GROWTH. It's all fucking marketing with all these moved goal posts and it fosters eating disorders and unrealistic expectations that doesn't allow people to view fitness as anything long-term.
Hey man, I wanted to say thanks for putting out healthy, realistic information and not being a part of the skewed social media fitness industry machine that puts out tons of misleading and/or false info just for the clicks and product sales 👍
Also keeping a very low body fat will decrease aromatization which will decrease estrogen which is neuro protective and estrogen is also anabolic in nature so u would also decrease your gains
@@notproductiveproductions3504 a looot of reasons! Maybe I can do a vid on it. It's one of the most underrated hormones in terms of actually building muscle.
Athlean X does not train like an athlete nor does he promote training like an athlete or put out information on how to do so. He’s said so many times his idol is Stallone, specifically Stallone from Rocky III/IV and Rambo II- when he was at his most shredded, juicy and aesthetic. Hence why he focuses so much on bicep curl variations. What athlete pays that much attention to biceps? Arm wrestlers? I think Eric Bugenhagen did a video about this which was fantastic and well worth watching.
I will say in defense of Greg Doucette promoting main-gaining, he says to do it at an appropriate level of body fat. He doesn't tell people to main-gain at 8% body fat, but to get to 12-18% and main-gain from there. Not saying whether this is good or bad advice, but just a small comment I wanted to make to your segment around 12:08
Greg says so many things that are all over the map, you can find some nuggets of truth beneath the multiple layers of shit but even then it’s a crapshoot. His channel is for entertainment at best.
So great to hear someone point this out. I think the actors today are also adding to the problem. They get peeled for a movie and now everyone thinks walking around with a six pack is normal and everyone should look like that.
Even worse, a lot of fitness influencers take TONS (literally thousands) of pics, and just slowly release them (with motivational quotes and such, of course) over the course of years on Instagram. People assume they are current...but in reality often they are going up and down in body fat, not being shredded year round...as it appears.
Good video. Dysmorphia boosting social media also fail to account for the wide variation in how people carry their fat. I had a DEXA scan two days ago that put me at 9% body fat. I don't look "influencer" level shredded because I have no measurable visceral fat. All of my fat is the visible (subcutaneous) kind. Armed with that knowledge, I'm now planning to do some lean gaining as I clearly have some freedom to put on a little bit more fat while staying healthy.
I found my sweet spot for feeling good and building muscle between 12-13% bf. Tried to build lower than that and it was miserable. Microscopic gains, no energy.
We talk a lot about unhealthy body standards for women but the way an inherently unnatural, suboptimal for performance, and ludicrously punishing, bodybuilder physique has captured our imagination of what male strength and fitness just looks like is absurd
I used to try stay lean year round and made such little progress in the gym, as soon as I relaxed and stayed around 12-18% bf my progress went up and preferred how I looked tbh
I mean, why would anyone even *want* to be below 10% year round? You do you of course, but I don't think *anyone* outside of the fitness industry considers someone with
I had an unrealistic goal for a guy who loves eating. The more I got into boxing the less I shot towards the ultra lean look because it wouldn’t benefit me to be 6-10% bodyfat so I just shoot too stay within the 14-16% range now. My mind was fucked with by the AthleanX community and was even convinced that 15% is “fat”.
For all his faults I don't know if this is a fair accusation to level at Jeff Cav. He has spoken out about why he looks the way he does. How he doesn't recommend looking like him because if it's not your job/your livelihood it's a pretty miserable existence. And he uses Jesse regularly as a before/after as to what his programs can offer. Jesse has obviously made progress but it's clearly a natural transformation and not at all unattainable. Yes Jeff Cav uses a lot of click bait but as a UA-camr yourself you understand why he does this. You've not actually analysed what he's saying in the videos aside from that one sped up clip which I'll agree with you was utter nonsense. You're taking him at the headlines alone for the most part which in turn makes this video as guilty of clickbait as his are. Regarding his 22 day routines, whilst I agree they are to be taken with a pinch of salt, I've ran two of them myself and the 22 day abs routine did work for me although I'll preface this with what he also said in the video...I was already lean. It won't turn a fat guy ripped in 22 days. For fairness I ran his 22 day push up challenge and my total wasn't doubled. It only went up by 6 reps in total and left me with shoulder pain from overuse. But this video is a little unbalanced here. I'm not saying he's not responsible for giving people eating disorders because people look up to him the same way guys like him looked up to Arnold and Stallone. They want to look like Jeff and with little experience they may assume following his advice will get them there. But what do you want him to do? Start every video with "you're not going to look like me for doing this but..." But shouldn't every fitness content creator be held to that same standard. I love Jeff Nippard and I'm running his program right now but he doesn't start every video with the same disclaimer. Aside from maybe AlphaDestiny who regularly does?
But unlike Jeff Cavaliere, nippard doesn't give dangerous advice like breathing out during squats or doing 10*10 german vollume training for the squat at 80%of your one rep max. Nippard doesn't use fake weights to market himself and sell his programs either. Athlean has done plenty of questionable to stuff that mark him as an untrustworthy source of fitness information.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef please stick to the subject at hand though. Is anything I'm saying wrong? The fake weights thing is such low hanging fruit. If I was doing an informational shoot I wouldn't use heavy weights either, what would be the point. Risk Vs reward. Had he been in the video with 40kg he'd be getting trolled for being weak so what's he to do? Put heavy ass weights in and put his body under undue stress for the sake of a tutorial? It's not like he faked a world record attempt.
@@bigc181 He sells strength training programs and looks like a stick. He had been using fake plates in other videos too. Not once did he mention it was for demonstration purposes. A newbie lifter will absolutely be impressed by his lifts and want to buy the strength programs though. It's disingenuous. I brought up the other situations to show that he has been scammy and untrustworthy before therefore It's not a stretch to call him out for spreading body dysmorphia either. Mind you i'd argue fake weights further increase the body dysmorphia issue by trying to infer that even with his emaciated physique, he is still very strong. Which was a lie of course but his subscribers wouldnt know that. Imagine trying to be as lean and atheltic as Jeff. Cutting to 5% bodyfat and trying to hit those deadlift numbers.
I have only been lifting for 1.5 years and I have been maingaining at 15-20% bf. Even that can be difficult sometimes. I can't imagine cutting weight and trying to put on mass from there; I'm already constantly grazing on food throughout the day.
I cut and got shredded a few years ago. I was constantly cold, hungry, food obsessed and easily irritated. I now hover around 13%-15% and sometimes drop down some. But I feel so much better!
I'm glad I came back to this video. I kinda needed to hear that bit about being 20% bodyfat being okay, not that I'm gonna stop trying/wanting to get back down towards 15 or so. Been feeling kinda shitty for not eating well since I have been struggling to afford eating the way I was before everything started costing more.
Although AX has quite a few videos about getting really lean he's also said on a number of occasions that the reason he's as lean as he is (and stays there) is because it's the face of the business and he has a monetary incentive in doing so. He told the viewer that you don't need to be that lean. Let's not forget that high popularity, whether on UA-cam or the internet in general, comes from giving people what they want, which is why leanness videos and drama videos are popular.
Indeed, though it would be good if he talked about the negatives of being lean MUCH more than he does. He's someone many people idolize and in a lot of ways he's selling a lie.
I ain’t gonna fade you, that 5 things every ripped guy does vid was one of the most influential on my journey early on and I still abide by it to this day. But to stay ripped or very lean (let’s call it 8-12% BF), you also need genetics on your side if you’re natty but that part is silent 😆
Solid video. Another downside of being lean that I will register is this. I’m knocking on age 54 prepping for a show. For many, when you get older and dip in to the single digits your joints ache. Didn’t happen when I was younger but my joints are feeling a bit stiff these days (forcing me to lighter weight higher reps which helps)
It's also unrealistic due to genetics. You can't look at a couple of genetic good responders who have the capacity to get and stay lean and think that it's possible for everyone. Not to mention the effects of gear on them.
When I raced Ironman years ago. I knew I was race ready when my wife told me I looked like I had cancer. This was especially true after a long as workout like a 100 mile ride and 2 hour run. I never, ever want to go to that extreme again. It sucked the life out of me, literally. I was committed to racing however. Power to weight was it. Every pound of body weight is about 1 second worth per mile of running. 10-15 pounds is a lot of time during the marathon then. Difference between Kona or couch in October.
I appreciate your sound, down to earth approach to fitness and mass building. Some time ago I asked you about why I just get bloated and not grow. It turned out I had a body dismorphia. Now I eat like 3500 kcal per day and my strength improved significantly since March. Also my circumferences are way bigger. Literally every friend I meet lately tells me things like "I can tell you work out" , "you look much bulkier, finally like a man" etc. That made me thinking that begin very lean actually made me look skinny weak and frail. Thanks, Geoff, for showing me that bf% is not the priority. 😁😁😁
16:41 this is so true, I swear (straight) guys care _way_ more about male physiques than women. I was talking to female friends recently about their male ideal and none of them mentioned anything physical, not even height. In fact, all the women I've been with were in way better shape than me. If you want to become lean, do it for yourself, not because it's something other people expect from you. They really don't.
I have watched nearly all Greg's videos and for me the clearest message he sends is pick a bf% that you are happy and healthy at .he suggests 15% alot but says could be even higher or lower depending on the person. That and of course his cookbook are his 2 strongest messages IMO.
AthleanX has some good rehab advices (two of them actually helped me) and challenging conditioning routines if you are in that kind of mood. That's all his channel is good for (and there are other channels that do it better).
Your videos are so honest and hilarious. Keep going. I wish you good luck with your channel. I agree 100% with what you said. I used to care a lot about leaness but with resetting my brain I realized that you don't have to be obsessed. Appearances are appearances. They don't help you anywhere else. My sport is cardio based and so I maintain lower body fat levels without trying. I now track calories in order not to lose weight. People at the gym always compliment about how ripped I look but I am trying to explain them that is not a good thing most of the times. Society plays a huge role in this situation. We have told ourselves that sickness is pretty and it has to stop because it is dangerous.
Great video! I do want to say something on Jeff's videos. As someone who watches Jeff Cavaliere on a regular basis, I've seen him use clickbait titles for a long time. The 'GET THIS LEAN' video was actually a warning to a VERY low body fat level. In the video about getting lean fast was a video where he talked about timing, since getting lean fast isn't a good thing. I can go on about this for most of his videos. From what I have seen, Athlean-X really is about a balanced diet year round. He never in his videos preaches for quick solutions. I do think it's a pity he used fake weights in his video, but then again, I am there for his information not for his lifts.
Yes this is one instance where clickbait can diminish someone's credibility. I've gone through a lot of his content and it's sort of a mixed bag when it comes to leaness, sometimes talking about how 5% is bad but then glorifying 7-9% or saying it's athletic. It's a shame because...clickbait WORKS and works very well! And as a huge channel he sort of sets the standard for the industry and many channels copy his style of titles and thumbnails which is absolutely to the detriment of the entire industry.
Maybe a change to "athletic" looks would be a good goal for the industry (industry??) to move to. Flat stomach, lots of muscle, good vigor and better mental acuity should be an easy selling point. Good vid, Geoffrey
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Mike isrealtel and Greg had a discussion on the topic
ua-cam.com/video/XDzIT4yKU90/v-deo.html
@@fl676 Sort of. Not quite exactly this.
@@GVS lol
U right sorry bro jumped the gun . I Watched the whole video
Good topic on too lean 👍🏻
For men, 15 % BF is not easy. 10 is outlier have ALL your sh#t together land...
Good book. Worth twice the piece (or more). I got it and loved it!
One of the best videos I've seen on this topic. Big difference between being lean and shredded!
Do you think some people are just genetically able to stay sub 10% no matter what?
Jason blaha promotes ideal body type
@@peliac7319 How much is some? It could be 0.001% of the World Population and that would still be more people than subscribers on this channel. Also, "No matter what" is a terrible qualifier, even with perfect genetics for leanness you could out eat that 10% mark. Something more useful would be "without noticeable side effects".
Facts bro
@@peliac7319 I've met people who revert to 9 percent body fat with out even trying so yes 100 percent. They are real weirdos. They can eat like 2000 cslories a day, feel fine and not even care. They have to make a deliberate concoius effort to eat more
Greg: "without drugs and/or being genetically elite, you won't be shit"
Jeff: "everyone can do what the genetically elite people on steroids can do with this simple trick"
Both are extremes and incorrect
Summed it up real well bro
😂😂😂 that's what I dislike about greg now. He used to be awesome, it's healthy what he promotes but its just so unmotivating now. In a dm I said wanted to go from 20 percent to 15 and he said I should just accept my genetics and maingain. Like huh? What's wrong with trying to do a little harder than last time. He's a complex guy.
@@Jeffery-Vanity-Blofield 15% is attainable. Don't settle if you really want it.
@@6pac. thank you I'm not sure why he said that. My body fat set point does seem to be want to be taking me back to the upper teens whenever i finish a diet but i believe a set point can be lowered? Takes a lot of dicipline and getting used to sitting at that level. I'm around 17 -18 atm. I seem to screw up whenever I cut so im going to try eat around maintencne and slowly recomp to around 15 or do a proper cut later.
18:38 “fat acceptance, the only movement without movement” best quote ever 😂
This is legendary
You don't get to tell others what they find attractive. Sorry, fatsos.
@@mindfuldrone That works both ways. People just can't seem to understand that fact.
Riding two horses at once isnt possible, unless you have a chariot (a chariot made of pure tren)
Creative comment ⬆️
😂😂😂
This was unique
@@Dom-mi4cc Don't you mean creatine comment?
And a very clen seat
I fluctuate between 8%-15% BF throughout the year, & it amazes me how some people react when I’m on the higher end as if I’m FitFlabb & a total slob. That’s still well within the healthy range & actually way above average, but social media totally distorts that reality.....
that is a great point. I am 18 years old and I do not use social media besides youtube due to that. Men's and Women's expectations have been set to an impossible level. I would say I about 15.5-17% body fat. I am healthy and feel fine at this body fat. I have never dieted to see how lean I could get without health issues. I Will start soon to get to 12-14 percent and see how I feel.
If they can’t handle you at 15%, they don’t deserve you at 8%
@@ready4itall89 facts. This video was very informative. I will try to do what Greg doucette advocates for in maingaining. I will cut down to 12-15 percent and if I feel fine their, I will stay
@@buffrhino6504 Thanks pal, really appreciate you saying that! 💪
Sorry I haven’t put out a new video in a bit. My video editing computer broke & took almost 2 months to get repaired, but finally back at work on my next one.
Facts
I’d have to say that I do the opposite and in fact demote unrealistic body images. I constantly tell people to close their eyes and imagine their dream physique and tell them they are not getting it. HALF WAY THERE I tell people. Also I tell people to maintain a realistic bodyweight they can maintain that does not cause them to suffer or have low energy or be starving and have energy. I would say I likely of ALL youtubers I’ve seen tell people that Genetics decides your faith more then most and so definitely do not promote unrealistic body images.
I’d say some would think I promote body dismorphia just because I am lean and so people would compare my lean physique to there own and so it could make it worse but as said in the video I definitely explain repeatedly the difficulties and the ‘NIGHTMARE” of trying to be too lean
So many people including people I know say that Olympia or bodybuilder competitors are natty it’s sad they don’t know the truth and have unrealistic expectations. Also btw best ever food review show shouted you out and shared his weight loss story. A reaction to it would be great. I love his channel as well
To be fair to Greg, I think he's right here.
Yeah , but you just said the same exact thing as him. The points you mentioned @Greg are the points @Geoffery mentioned while discussing about you sparking some body dysmorphia.
Personally i don't think you promote that...the people that are dumb AF would get fixated on body dysmorphia from you.
@@jugheadsrule Yes because you are confusing his physique with what he ACTUALLY SAYS on the subject. Just BEING LEAN doesn't mean you PROMOTE IT. It means you ARE lean. What a person SAYS is what they promote. You must be young because you can't figure out the difference.
I think without having watched Greg's content I would have never realized that being incredibly shredded shouldn't be my goal and that people shouldn't aspire to the standards of influencers.
I definitely believe Greg's content helps prevent body dysmorphia.
Man, AthleanX every time falls further from grace in my eyes.
1) Breathe out before you squat
2) Grow biceps in one month
3) Fake weights
4) Idiotic extreme variance and volume in overpriced cookie cutter programs
5) Selling bodyfat
^this
did he say its healthy?
Yessur. And his stupid worthless supplements that do close to nothing lmao. He couldn't even say sorry to his viewers for faking the lifts, he is such an ego God. Lul
@@tijus2675 he said it a lot
I remember he had a video about body fat% where he would say multiple times that 5% is what he recommends, as healthy and blablabla.
Surreal, lol
Yes and his dumb diet that you basically never supposed to eat anything tasty. Food is one of the best things in life, to torture yourself like that is pointless and a waste.
Once at my gym an overweight lady asked a gym coach how to lose 15 kg in couple of weeks for the wedding. He looked at her and answered "cut off your leg". It wasn't nice however the idea wasn't entirely wrong :D
When my mom had to have her lower leg amputated, she actually referred to it as her overnight 5kg diet. She however added she can't recommend it, since it really did not do a lot for her waistline. That woman has an inspiring amount of humour.
Gotta cut of this slong to get to 10%. Dont use it much but i want my obliques to show anything for he gains 'right babe'?
The solution is salmonella poisoning, although the people who had a successful diet don't recommend it for some reason
@@fotisnikolaidis2313 not even funny as a joke :(
92% body fat is the optimal number as we can see in our lord Kyriakoss Grizzly
Exactly, I don’t see those shredded guys do 470kg lifts.
the bloat lord
it actually is 100% bodyfat/muscle mass since those two merged in his body to create the absolute bloat.
"The only movement without movement" Brilliant.
Body Dysmorphia, eating disorders, and cultism.
Right when i was about to ask on the patreon what fitness youtubers you watch
Damn, didnt expect you here, man, your anime videos are amazing, esp your opm chapter reviews
What the !? U here, what's good man.
aka: AthleanX
Natural Hypertrophy is probably the best example of how good you can look in the high teens bf with proper ab work
Greg told a client to maingain, and when he wasn’t gaining any muslce, Greg told him he wasn’t eating enough…… on a maingain cycle.
Did you see the pic Jeff Nippard posted on ig today? He's about 20% bodyfat rn chasing a 405 bench following in AlphaDestiny's footsteps. Much respect to him for showing that.
Yea it's funny seeing comments like "time to cut?" the minute someone in the industry goes over 15%.
Another comment... "Jeff Thiccard". Anyway I think it's great. A really good example of how bodyfat ebbs and flows based on goals and season.
This video is reaffirming exactly what I’ve learned recently. I got too lean and my energy tanked, I was always angry, and my sleep suffered. Now I’m slowly gaining weight and feel the best I’ve felt in a while.
I’ll also add that even when I was highest on Athlean X as a beginner I still was like “there’s no reason to be that lean”. Even as my own personal standards for leanness have shifted to being lower in BF% I very much still think this.
Wish I knew sooner so I hadn’t wasted my time trying to only work on being “lean”
@@DrOrr There’s nothing wrong with being lean or working on it, just as long as you acknowledge there’s a limit and you’re not chasing two dragons at once.
Leanness is scary. When you have that death face look, you think you look like a giga chad, but when you look at pictures after bulking back up, you realize you looked like you needed a sandwich.
You peak in terms of aesthetics at like 12-14% honestly.
Depends on your fat distribution.
I had this exact problem recently. Parents thought I looked sick, because with a hoody on, noone can tell you are 7+kg lighter
One aspect is where fat goes / disappears first when you force-diet or force-feed, I think.
I.e. for some of us force-dieting means face starts looking starved, but you stop and it gets fine real quick (while the bodyfat percentage stays the same, more or less).
Looking back at the pictures now, 7kg heavier than my lowest, I looked like I needed a fucking tombstone or some shit, not only a sandwich. It's just saddens me to see how shredded I was but how dark that period of my life actually was, living on 2000 kcal a day, training 6x a week and getting 12k + steps daily, going to sleep tired and waking up hungry as hell and even more tired. Never diet to even 10-12% bf if you have no muscle on your frame. If you haven't already bulked up in the past and added some muscle, it's the worst idea ever to get lean, because you'll only feel like shit and look skinny. I had to buy XS shirts and change my entire wardrobe to wear tight clothes to look bigger, because I was so small in reality
@@nickal3xexactly same story here buddy..I was even measuring ketchup🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ I do measure now but to just match the protein amount and a caloric surplus
Me at my 25 - 30 percent bodyfat trying hard to get to around 20s watching this video, yeah bro, tell them bro, it is too lean and unhealthy
Healthy state of mind! Keep that in mind once you hit that 20%. It's sneaky and addictive😆
Me drinking my second Chik-filet milkshake agrees with you. They're small, I have no shame.
This is a common mistake as it's not necessarily unhealthy. What can (potentially) be unhealthy about exotic leanness is what's required to get there, not the actual state of leanness itself. If you have to quasi starve yourself and miss out on lots of minerals and nutrients to get to (or maintain) a certain level of body fat then that's unhealthy, but not everyone has to starve themselves or forgo important nutrients to do it.
@iBits that's just not true. You need a certain amount of body fat to function properly.
Fat is an endocrine organ and is vital for your physical and mental health
AthleanX: look like an athlete that's dying
Alphadestiny: everyone can bench 315 with the right coaching.
Greg Doucette: You're only getting halfway to your dream physique.
Jeffrey: Find out what you can achieve.
This sums it up.
Alex didn’t say everyone can reach x weight. He says that most can and that the strength standards across the broad are lowballed which is he right about. Example of someone who can’t with below average genetics is natural hypertrophy who has been training for 10 years and can only bench 275. He literally says he has bad genetics. But the thing is that NH still looks pretty good with the type of physique Greg would say only 10% of guys can reach, I believe NH is 6 feet. About the same as Will Tennyson, idk if he’s 5’11 or 6 feet because he said 6 but then got measured at 5’11. Will is my poster boy of people who trained well but hasn’t reached their full potential. The dude has over 7 years of experience but only put on 4 pounds of muscle in the last 3 due to his life style. Getting past that he doesn’t do any high intensity reps/sets. Will is past the point where just doing 3x1, 4x8, etc is gonna yield optimal gains. There’s no doubt in my mind that Will can reach a 405 bench without an excessive weight gain. He could stay at 180 and hit that if he was trying within another 5 years. I’d be shocked if he ever goes for it though
Jeff Nipard: here's science that you won't understand anyway
@@Storiaron I'm looking back at this comment and realizing I mentioned NH training for 10 years but that's a half truth, he has more like 6 years of good training at this point. I look forward to a bench update from him
Regarding alpha destiny, Mark Rippetoe (starting strength) sets a 300 lb bench press as a standard that most men can reach within 5 years if they start lifting in their early 20’s and have a proper recovery program.
Almost every man can bench 315 with the right training...
The IFBB pro Erin Stern made a comment today in response to an audience question about getting down to BF levels and keeping them there, " In bodybuilding terms, the better you look, the worse you feel".
Yup, no doubt.
Thank you for this content. I already knew that it wasn't realistic, and I always tell myself "they make money with their appearence" but hearing someone else say it helps as a sanity check, it helps me to know that's not "mediocrity" talking, but realism. We need more content like this.
The answer is yes
No, you can't ride two horses at once.. haha
one is extremely promoting the other is not promoting just not getting the clicks for those videos and sometimes promote it
For Jeff it’s yes. For Greg it’s a no.
Greg said something along the lines of "if you can't see your bottom abs you're fat". Also he likes to blackpill everyone and give them genetics dysmorphia by telling them only genetic phenoms can get any kind of results
@@Luke-id1cp he says that only genetic phenoms can be world class, however, he also encourages people to be the best that they can, even if they can't be the absolute best, so in my opinion, he isn't trying to discourage others by saying that they can't achieve anything, but rather set realistic expectations for what a normal person can achieve.
Greg's advice to set a realistic body composition goal halfway between your real current composition and your fantasy composition goal seems pretty reasonable.
And then undermines it when he tells us what he thinks sustainable for the average man
@@notproductiveproductions3504 doesnt he say most men can maintain 15-20% bf
seems kinda reasonable to me
@@Dino_Pony have you seen HIS body fat
@@notproductiveproductions3504 thats irrelevant to what he tells us is sustainable for the average person
Before I became wise, Jeff did a great job of screwing up my head and life. I hope he enjoys his 10 million followers.
How so?
How so? Can you share your personal experience with Athlean X a bit if possible
Dude never told me to bulk
@@rasheemthebestfirstone3274 Right, it's quite the opposite, always in a "caloric deficit".
@@KeganVanSickle Yep. Jeff forgot people not abusing roids like him need to eat food to recover, they aren't injecting.
So from a female perspective, (well, one anyway) I just want to confirm that to me, the 20% bods look sexy, because they look strong and durable, and considering the majority of men are overweight or obese, this 20% is still streets ahead of your contemporaries because of the shapely muscles.
Same for me with females. I find a girl with a bit of fat way more attractive than those size 0 shredded girls. Just as long as the hourglass shape stays I prefer a bit of fat.
Agreed, 20% bf on guy that works out is perfect 👌
@@LesterBrunt more hotties for me then
@@ChrlzMaraz If that is what you call hot then yes.
@@LesterBrunt Totally agree on that one.
Really impressed with this presentation!
SO many lifters need to hear this message!! On point 👊🏻
Algo.
Also, as a newbie, I followed a lot of Jeffs advice maybe 8 or 9 years ago, but man am I glad my eyes opened - dude is a quack for the most part and is part of the primary problem of the fitness industry, especially given his platform and reach.
Some people get so buried in their lies that they cannot, even in this day and age where we WANT truth and transparency regardless of what supplements people take, come clean to themselves.
THANK YOU! UA-cam needs more people like you! You make us natural lifters have realistic goals!
From my little experience reaserching this (been training nearly 2 years now) I think there's two rules I've learnt.
1 - Listen to your body, as everyone's is different. I tried getting leaner and when I dropped below 16% I FELT it when I hit 14% even if I ate enough to stay at 14% I just felt not so much hungry but just... More tired I didn't want to workout and when I forced myself to it felt so lackluster I couldn't get in the zone and push through like normal it was a;lmost like being ill. Then the moment I increased my cals even slightly my body just went straight back to 16% and I felt fine again so clearly that's just where my body wants to be. For some people it's a bit less and for others a bit more but it's better to where your body wants to be and feel good than 2% leaner and feel like shit. It's pretty easy to tell when you hit it to as not only from feeling but in my experience when you hit that % your body wants to be at even if you eat a bit more or eat a bit less unless you drastically change your diet your body just kind of stays there.
2 - Steroids don't just make you build more muscle. This was a big revelation for me, I always thought steroids just made you build more muscle but no they do so much more. They let you break all the rules because your changing how your body works, for instance they make your body be more ok with being leaner, they make it so that your comfortable % is no longer 16% but it's 8, 9, 10% because they change your bodies priorities. There are the rare outliers but 99.9% of people you see who are 10-12% BF, who look happy and comfortable and can build muscle are on steroids and you can apply this rule to pretty much every extreme. If they are able to work, train 3 times a day, eat 4500 cals, sleep 3 hours a day and be 10% BF all while still putting on mass? Guess what. There on steroids. Steriods don't just make you build more muscle, they let you build more muscle while living an unhealthy life style. They pick up the slack. I used to think I just "wasn't going hard enough" when I saw these beautiful peoples extreme training guides but now I know that there is just a limit to how hard you can go while natty before it becomes detrimental to your gains.
Applying these two rules to the guides I saw, the way I felt and the things I did along with the confidence to say "You know what, I know my body" helped me to create a more balanced training program. While I know it's not perfect (and it never will be) as I still have trouble finding that line where I am training to hard as I don't want to not maximise my gains it's a damn sight better than it used to be. My lifts are going up at a moderate pace and as long as that's happening I must be doing something right.
I can say I'm at the other extreme end of the spectrum. I can't go above 16% body fat . I feel like I'm gonna puke 24/7 from all the food that I consume. I can say that I prefer 10-12%bodyfat to 15-16%. Yes I know I'm blessed from god of aesthetics cause I feel better at 10% than 15% but it makes bulking so much harder for me
@@unbrokenriven1455 - I'm with you. Also, I don't distribute fat very well, and it all goes to my neck. When I'm 12% fat or so I feel the best and I don't have a neck like Bill Gates.
I am sorry but you dropped the ball on this one...... If you actually watched Jeff’s videos you’d know that he does not promote extreme leanness in at least two of the cited videos. The first video you mention, and the one with the leanest guy on the planet video on the thumbnail.
I’m wondering if you didn’t watch the “get this shredded” or a lot of those videos because he definitely says all that. It’s click bait for sure but he discusses how hard it all is and it’s unrealistic. Most of the fitness you tubers and Instagram in general makes people promote the body image problems. Greg is pretty good for the most part besides trying to say you can get jacked by maintaining. Athlean x says the same but he’s not huge. He chooses being lean over huge
I also think a certain Hollywood physique expert could also maybe stop overselling the ' intermittent fast your way to get 100 girls on the beach' narrative.
You can definitely tell Greg is aware of the body dysmorphia which often comes with the gym and he's definitely helped a lot of people out with his videos.
Jeff on the other hand makes a few vids on unrealistic expectations and then contradicts himself with 22inch arms/ other clickbait and vshred looking marketing you can tell when it's just about the money, while he probably started out to help people and has done, he has definitely sacrificed integrity to grow his company that seems to be a common theme amongst big fitness channels😢
Sad that's true. He really helped me like 6 years back to build up my physique for which I do respect him somewhere in the back of my mind. He just felt more genuine back then. Maybe he's just delusional now since he got shredded. He was lean back then but not shredded.
Love to see you here Josh Brett. Much love. ❤
@Josh Brett Honestly, I think this is one of the most balanced takes on Athlean-X. I loved Jeff’s videos from 4-5 years ago, but ever since the debacle from 1-2 years ago, his clickbait has gotten worse and worse. And it’s to the point where as you pointed out, he clearly contradicts himself.
@Josh Brett
Bro pleeeeaaaase re-upload that one video that got taken down. It was my favorite, and I HAVE to have some kind of access to it. 😭
Greg has explained before that you can't maingain if you are too lean and I think people misinterpret him cus he had a whole video explaining when you should and shouldn't maingain, and he said you need to be a comfortable level BF for you and maingain from there
I commend you on providing an objective review. It's no secret that Greg isn't your favorite character.. but you still have the ability to objectively seperate your opinion from your analysis.... The internet needs more of that. ✊💪🤙
Earned a sub! Defenitely should be talked about more.
As I’ve said, they’re the spider man pointing at each other meme when it comes to leanness
U
The "healthy at any bodyweight, the only movement without any movement" haha that cracked me up! good video also :)
3:47
He is right. I remember when I was chasing leanness,it really affected my life. I was weaker,I looked sick e.t.c
Right now I'm 16% body fat and feel comfortable,I add more muscle and look more muscular under a shirt
Great video!!
Very helpful, informative post, thank you. this reminded me of a post, you've probably seen it,, where Jeff Cavaliere emphasizes a little too much of everyone aspiring to look like "Baywatch" actor Zac Efron
I mean Greg does say "get to a body fat that's healthy that you can maintain comfortably" not to justify him or any of the contradictory shit he's said before/after this statement. But this statement in and itself is quite a positive way to approach the aspect simply because, my comfortable and healthy body fat is 10% but the next guys might be 12% but his friends might be 16%. Outisde of this statement, both Greg and Jeff talk shit none stop.
He also say if you are on a slight surplus and don't have visible abs, you're fat... drugs got to his brain a long time ago
True 10% body fat is not healthy and most men would feel like shit being that lean. 12-15% seems more reasonable.
@@dustencross357 - Correct, I'm one of them men. I've been sat at around 10% for the last 2 years or so and I'm absolutely fine. I'm also life time natural.
my only critique would be #CoachG has been very candid about the unrealistic goal of being very lean year-round and emphasizing how genetics plays a major role in your ability to be lean without major distress.
he also emphasizes how the average person with average genetics to respond to both training and PEDs makes it unlikely most of us can ever achieve the 0.1-1% results of the genetically gifted of which is most of fitness influencers #TrainHARDER #HarderThanLastTime
Yeah and the video where Jeff had a thumbnail with the leanest guy on planet Jeff stresses the same thing how unrealistic it is and how genetics plays a major role and how most people should aim for 13-15% , I think this guy is judging the content by the thumbnails and not actually watching the videos
I've been hovering around you're content but was quite sure I'd enjoy it. This video instantly earned you a sub, holy shit. This needs to be the new wave of fitness content, letting people know, up front, all of the negatives of being too lean FOR THEM (some individuals may not even be able to maintain mid teens, which is FINE).
I seriously think people are implicitly being told to maintain a physique that's leaner than they can maintain all of the time. For extremely vague and unsubstantiated reasons too, just saying "ah your insulin sensitivity will be better" or then "but inflammation tho". I even have seen some people say there is something unhealthy with 15-20% bodyfat (male), and then vaguely say 10% bf is optimal for FERTILITY reasons citing weird mechanistic studies as AN ARGUMENT FOR 10% BEING OPTIMAL FOR MUSCLE GROWTH. It's all fucking marketing with all these moved goal posts and it fosters eating disorders and unrealistic expectations that doesn't allow people to view fitness as anything long-term.
Hey man, I wanted to say thanks for putting out healthy, realistic information and not being a part of the skewed social media fitness industry machine that puts out tons of misleading and/or false info just for the clicks and product sales 👍
youtube fitness needs more people like you
Also keeping a very low body fat will decrease aromatization which will decrease estrogen which is neuro protective and estrogen is also anabolic in nature so u would also decrease your gains
Yes that's the biggest reason to go for mid teens over sub 10%. That and cortisol.
@@GVS and donuts
@@adrinesterabadeyan6214 Yes. Donutisol.
Just outta curiosity, how is ESTROGEN of all things anabolic
@@notproductiveproductions3504 a looot of reasons! Maybe I can do a vid on it. It's one of the most underrated hormones in terms of actually building muscle.
Athlean X does not train like an athlete nor does he promote training like an athlete or put out information on how to do so.
He’s said so many times his idol is Stallone, specifically Stallone from Rocky III/IV and Rambo II- when he was at his most shredded, juicy and aesthetic. Hence why he focuses so much on bicep curl variations. What athlete pays that much attention to biceps? Arm wrestlers?
I think Eric Bugenhagen did a video about this which was fantastic and well worth watching.
Agree. I did a video on it as well. Alec Enkiri has a few, too
When you focus mainly on vanity and not on sports performance, can you really call yourself an athlete?
"The only movement without movement" hahahahha, good one Geoff
Hungry + Angry = Hangry.
Full + Happy = ...oops never mind.
I will say in defense of Greg Doucette promoting main-gaining, he says to do it at an appropriate level of body fat. He doesn't tell people to main-gain at 8% body fat, but to get to 12-18% and main-gain from there. Not saying whether this is good or bad advice, but just a small comment I wanted to make to your segment around 12:08
Greg says so many things that are all over the map, you can find some nuggets of truth beneath the multiple layers of shit but even then it’s a crapshoot. His channel is for entertainment at best.
Not being shredded make you happy ,but having the purpose in life that makes you happy.
U should do podcasts on Spotify I like listening to ur vids working out lmao
I would listen also, but I would miss the editor.
Ι find that listening makes the videos worse because of the random movie sequences that get get meme'd in the videos
So great to hear someone point this out. I think the actors today are also adding to the problem. They get peeled for a movie and now everyone thinks walking around with a six pack is normal and everyone should look like that.
Even worse, a lot of fitness influencers take TONS (literally thousands) of pics, and just slowly release them (with motivational quotes and such, of course) over the course of years on Instagram. People assume they are current...but in reality often they are going up and down in body fat, not being shredded year round...as it appears.
Good video. Dysmorphia boosting social media also fail to account for the wide variation in how people carry their fat. I had a DEXA scan two days ago that put me at 9% body fat. I don't look "influencer" level shredded because I have no measurable visceral fat. All of my fat is the visible (subcutaneous) kind. Armed with that knowledge, I'm now planning to do some lean gaining as I clearly have some freedom to put on a little bit more fat while staying healthy.
Another Great informative video thanks man! Picked up the book and loving it !!!!
Hope you enjoy it!
I found my sweet spot for feeling good and building muscle between 12-13% bf.
Tried to build lower than that and it was miserable. Microscopic gains, no energy.
Just finished reading Orthorexia by Renee McGregor and it was a great read. Looking forward to your video on the topic!
We talk a lot about unhealthy body standards for women but the way an inherently unnatural, suboptimal for performance, and ludicrously punishing, bodybuilder physique has captured our imagination of what male strength and fitness just looks like is absurd
I didn't know how much I needed to hear this. Thank you.
I used to try stay lean year round and made such little progress in the gym, as soon as I relaxed and stayed around 12-18% bf my progress went up and preferred how I looked tbh
I mean, why would anyone even *want* to be below 10% year round? You do you of course, but I don't think *anyone* outside of the fitness industry considers someone with
But most people are fat.
What a good piece of advice. At the end of the day, the most important thing is HH: health and happiness
Great video as usual. I like how you give Greg credit when it is due.
Cheers.
I always try to be fair. Ironically, some people said I was still hating on him or salty. I guess they didn't watch the video.
I had an unrealistic goal for a guy who loves eating. The more I got into boxing the less I shot towards the ultra lean look because it wouldn’t benefit me to be 6-10% bodyfat so I just shoot too stay within the 14-16% range now. My mind was fucked with by the AthleanX community and was even convinced that 15% is “fat”.
For all his faults I don't know if this is a fair accusation to level at Jeff Cav.
He has spoken out about why he looks the way he does. How he doesn't recommend looking like him because if it's not your job/your livelihood it's a pretty miserable existence.
And he uses Jesse regularly as a before/after as to what his programs can offer. Jesse has obviously made progress but it's clearly a natural transformation and not at all unattainable.
Yes Jeff Cav uses a lot of click bait but as a UA-camr yourself you understand why he does this. You've not actually analysed what he's saying in the videos aside from that one sped up clip which I'll agree with you was utter nonsense. You're taking him at the headlines alone for the most part which in turn makes this video as guilty of clickbait as his are.
Regarding his 22 day routines, whilst I agree they are to be taken with a pinch of salt, I've ran two of them myself and the 22 day abs routine did work for me although I'll preface this with what he also said in the video...I was already lean. It won't turn a fat guy ripped in 22 days.
For fairness I ran his 22 day push up challenge and my total wasn't doubled. It only went up by 6 reps in total and left me with shoulder pain from overuse.
But this video is a little unbalanced here.
I'm not saying he's not responsible for giving people eating disorders because people look up to him the same way guys like him looked up to Arnold and Stallone. They want to look like Jeff and with little experience they may assume following his advice will get them there. But what do you want him to do? Start every video with "you're not going to look like me for doing this but..."
But shouldn't every fitness content creator be held to that same standard. I love Jeff Nippard and I'm running his program right now but he doesn't start every video with the same disclaimer. Aside from maybe AlphaDestiny who regularly does?
But unlike Jeff Cavaliere, nippard doesn't give dangerous advice like breathing out during squats or doing 10*10 german vollume training for the squat at 80%of your one rep max.
Nippard doesn't use fake weights to market himself and sell his programs either.
Athlean has done plenty of questionable to stuff that mark him as an untrustworthy source of fitness information.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef While I do have my criticisms of Jeff, it seems people are out there who blow things out of proportion to try and take him down a peg.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef please stick to the subject at hand though.
Is anything I'm saying wrong?
The fake weights thing is such low hanging fruit. If I was doing an informational shoot I wouldn't use heavy weights either, what would be the point. Risk Vs reward. Had he been in the video with 40kg he'd be getting trolled for being weak so what's he to do? Put heavy ass weights in and put his body under undue stress for the sake of a tutorial? It's not like he faked a world record attempt.
@@bigc181 He sells strength training programs and looks like a stick.
He had been using fake plates in other videos too. Not once did he mention it was for demonstration purposes. A newbie lifter will absolutely be impressed by his lifts and want to buy the strength programs though.
It's disingenuous.
I brought up the other situations to show that he has been scammy and untrustworthy before therefore It's not a stretch to call him out for spreading body dysmorphia either.
Mind you i'd argue fake weights further increase the body dysmorphia issue by trying to infer that even with his emaciated physique, he is still very strong. Which was a lie of course but his subscribers wouldnt know that. Imagine trying to be as lean and atheltic as Jeff. Cutting to 5% bodyfat and trying to hit those deadlift numbers.
I have only been lifting for 1.5 years and I have been maingaining at 15-20% bf. Even that can be difficult sometimes. I can't imagine cutting weight and trying to put on mass from there; I'm already constantly grazing on food throughout the day.
I am as lean I need to be while enjoying 1-2 glasses of wine a night. #happy
you look great!
@@drenji463 Thanks and I feel great!
Thanks for this eye-opener 💯⚡
I cut and got shredded a few years ago. I was constantly cold, hungry, food obsessed and easily irritated. I now hover around 13%-15% and sometimes drop down some. But I feel so much better!
Ahhh i asked for this one 😂 ironically I fixed my body dismorphia hahah
Nice!
I'm glad I came back to this video. I kinda needed to hear that bit about being 20% bodyfat being okay, not that I'm gonna stop trying/wanting to get back down towards 15 or so. Been feeling kinda shitty for not eating well since I have been struggling to afford eating the way I was before everything started costing more.
13:12 Geoff....have you been watching More Plates More Dates recently by any chance?😂
Supraphysiological levels of humor
Although AX has quite a few videos about getting really lean he's also said on a number of occasions that the reason he's as lean as he is (and stays there) is because it's the face of the business and he has a monetary incentive in doing so. He told the viewer that you don't need to be that lean.
Let's not forget that high popularity, whether on UA-cam or the internet in general, comes from giving people what they want, which is why leanness videos and drama videos are popular.
Indeed, though it would be good if he talked about the negatives of being lean MUCH more than he does. He's someone many people idolize and in a lot of ways he's selling a lie.
Possibly but I can be honest when I say they both annoy the living shit out of me
They should take a seat right over there.
I'm cute though, build good.
@@Croissantrophy.meme.channel I need you to have a seat over there please 😐
@@chrishansen9731 who are you ?
@@davidmarin2846 I'll get to that in just a minute
Once I let go of my abs, life improved.
Same.
I ain’t gonna fade you, that 5 things every ripped guy does vid was one of the most influential on my journey early on and I still abide by it to this day. But to stay ripped or very lean (let’s call it 8-12% BF), you also need genetics on your side if you’re natty but that part is silent 😆
Solid video. Another downside of being lean that I will register is this. I’m knocking on age 54 prepping for a show. For many, when you get older and dip in to the single digits your joints ache. Didn’t happen when I was younger but my joints are feeling a bit stiff these days (forcing me to lighter weight higher reps which helps)
Great vid as always. Btw, I was laughing so hard on your fit tuber video
"How to get that shredded look fast?" - invasive surgery is usually the answer xD
You forgot about chicken, brocolli and rice 😂
I like this new fitness wave of people being honest and not bullshitting I like this dude
It's also unrealistic due to genetics. You can't look at a couple of genetic good responders who have the capacity to get and stay lean and think that it's possible for everyone. Not to mention the effects of gear on them.
When I raced Ironman years ago. I knew I was race ready when my wife told me I looked like I had cancer. This was especially true after a long as workout like a 100 mile ride and 2 hour run. I never, ever want to go to that extreme again. It sucked the life out of me, literally. I was committed to racing however. Power to weight was it. Every pound of body weight is about 1 second worth per mile of running. 10-15 pounds is a lot of time during the marathon then. Difference between Kona or couch in October.
Thank you for doing what you are doing!
I appreciate your sound, down to earth approach to fitness and mass building. Some time ago I asked you about why I just get bloated and not grow. It turned out I had a body dismorphia. Now I eat like 3500 kcal per day and my strength improved significantly since March. Also my circumferences are way bigger. Literally every friend I meet lately tells me things like "I can tell you work out" , "you look much bulkier, finally like a man" etc. That made me thinking that begin very lean actually made me look skinny weak and frail. Thanks, Geoff, for showing me that bf% is not the priority. 😁😁😁
I'm getting lean, but I'm just doing it to see how far I can push myself.
My God i love this content. This channel is so underrated
16:41 this is so true, I swear (straight) guys care _way_ more about male physiques than women. I was talking to female friends recently about their male ideal and none of them mentioned anything physical, not even height. In fact, all the women I've been with were in way better shape than me. If you want to become lean, do it for yourself, not because it's something other people expect from you. They really don't.
this is a generalized statement.
@man with a username preach
I have watched nearly all Greg's videos and for me the clearest message he sends is pick a bf% that you are happy and healthy at .he suggests 15% alot but says could be even higher or lower depending on the person. That and of course his cookbook are his 2 strongest messages IMO.
Thanks for staying real man!
AthleanX has some good rehab advices (two of them actually helped me) and challenging conditioning routines if you are in that kind of mood. That's all his channel is good for (and there are other channels that do it better).
Your videos are so honest and hilarious. Keep going. I wish you good luck with your channel.
I agree 100% with what you said. I used to care a lot about leaness but with resetting my brain I realized that you don't have to be obsessed. Appearances are appearances. They don't help you anywhere else.
My sport is cardio based and so I maintain lower body fat levels without trying. I now track calories in order not to lose weight.
People at the gym always compliment about how ripped I look but I am trying to explain them that is not a good thing most of the times.
Society plays a huge role in this situation. We have told ourselves that sickness is pretty and it has to stop because it is dangerous.
Nice VIDEO Big man
Excellent video Geoff!!
I subbed for the rational approach and that killer line at the end about HAES
Liked and subbed. Excellent video man!!
Great video! I do want to say something on Jeff's videos. As someone who watches Jeff Cavaliere on a regular basis, I've seen him use clickbait titles for a long time. The 'GET THIS LEAN' video was actually a warning to a VERY low body fat level. In the video about getting lean fast was a video where he talked about timing, since getting lean fast isn't a good thing. I can go on about this for most of his videos.
From what I have seen, Athlean-X really is about a balanced diet year round. He never in his videos preaches for quick solutions. I do think it's a pity he used fake weights in his video, but then again, I am there for his information not for his lifts.
Yes this is one instance where clickbait can diminish someone's credibility. I've gone through a lot of his content and it's sort of a mixed bag when it comes to leaness, sometimes talking about how 5% is bad but then glorifying 7-9% or saying it's athletic.
It's a shame because...clickbait WORKS and works very well! And as a huge channel he sort of sets the standard for the industry and many channels copy his style of titles and thumbnails which is absolutely to the detriment of the entire industry.
Maybe a change to "athletic" looks would be a good goal for the industry (industry??) to move to. Flat stomach, lots of muscle, good vigor and better mental acuity should be an easy selling point. Good vid, Geoffrey
Excellent video Geoffrey.