fretless bass fingerboard modding: CA coating
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
- So you are looking to improve the buzz on your fretless bass? Before you try any fingerboard coating, you might want to check out how it went for me when I tried cyano acrylate to get more mid-range overtones out of my basses.
0:00 - intro
1:17 - required materials
3:26 - the build
8:56 - sound comparison
9:31 - visual analysis
11:02 - conclusion
Disclaimer: Don't try this at home. Unless you really want to. I will not be held responsible for your fingers glued to your bass.
Music:
- UrH, "Zebra Bass" (2019)
- Splunge!, "Spanish" (2000)
Hardware:
- Ibanez SRF705 fretless bass
- Native Instruments Komplete 6 (audio interface)
- Røde NT-1 and NT USB microphones
- Microsoft Lumia 950 (as camera)
- Microsoft Surface Go (as camera)
Software:
- ShareX (screen capture)
- DaVinci Resolve (video editing)
- Cockos Reaper DAW (audio recording and editing)
- VST plugins: Nova EQ (Tokyo Dawn Records), Supercharger GT (Native Instruments)
© None of your Business 2019 - Навчання та стиль
This guy is hilarious. And what a voice!
Yannis Fyssas really? i would have never known. do you happen to know which one?
Is your day job doing voice overs and narrations? If not, it should be!
agreed!
he must be Hainbach's brother xD
Hahaha i swear i was about to ask the same thing.
He sounds like the evil guy from the lion king
His voice could be used for new Knight Rider series (if they do it). :))P
As a luthier, I thought I'd add my professional opinion to this. 1). Do not do this with a good bass. 2). Adjust the neck dead flat before block sanding it and prepping the board. 3). Dam the sides of the neck with masking tape and aluminum flashing tape, so you can flood the area with THIN CA glue. DO NOT USE ACCELERATOR. 4). Allow the glue to dry for about a week before sanding, and sand till you take the resulting superficial top coat off. Then buff. Remember, you are trying to harden the wood, not cover it up.
Thanks for the input, but the accelarator has not done any damage to my build so far.
Probably the most educational fretless video you're likely to see on youtube. Certainly the most honest.
Appreciate your honest self analysis evaluation. Some people may have convinced themselves to like the altered. You are a strong person accepting good and not so good. Hey you did a great job it just saved others going down that rabbit hole.
Golden voice of 2020
Probably the most respectful person to forewarn us in the introduction that Superglue wasn’t worth trying. Thanks for the advice
You're video kept my attention throughout the entire clip. You're voice and backing music and sense of humor worked for me. Know back to your day job.
Clear, concise, scientifically approached and humorous too. Well done.
I admire your efforts. I've done this a few times and let the glue drying without the activator, you will be better off. The activator creates little dry, uneven and harder to sand pools. Super glue (thin) will dry quickly, just be patient, it will give you a thicker finish if you spread it instead of brushing.. The biggest problem in any project is getting in a hurry. Sand with 400 and keep applying glue to level out the finish. Once you get to a level finish, start working up to 1200 grit, then up to 3000 grit. I used Bondo in a bag and molded it around the neck to get the radius correct. Place the sandpaper under the Bondo curve and it's a perfect match. When you get to a 3000 grit, you're starting to get a shine. I hand rub with compound to keep from grinding in a low spot with a drill. Bottom line, don't get frustrated and have some fun with your work, you now have experience.
Thankyou! Its so rare to find a "tips" video that is both really honest and so well-analyzed, rather than just sensationalized and backed up with sloppy or even no research. Also your voice is so good you definately should work as a narrator or something!
A thing I have learned while working on one of my fretless basses is that guitar necks are not actually straight, so ideally you should use a radius sanding block of the correct radius, not a straight one.
Pretty sure he can do it with a flat one, he just needs to pay more attention and sand the whole width. A radius sand block is still more handy, but not a necessity.
you need both a levelling beam and a radius beam. The correct technique is to get the neck as straight as it will possibly go (with truss rod), and work from there. . You cant ask your radius beam, to ALSO take care of the end to end flatness. How do you know you are using it correctly? if you are favouring your right side, the neck will have a slight twist etc etc . . one job each . Levelling beam for general flattening , followed by radius beam to re establish the radius. both beams MUST be longer than the board PLUS your stroke, otherwise you are sanding a hollow into your neck
@@thebutton7932 darkySp is correct. You don't need all that fancy jazz (!) to level a fingerboard. I used a cheap red rubber sanding block from the hardware store, checked with a straightedge, and that level has lasted five years.
Before sanding with a radiused block to match the radius of the bass neck, release the truss rod to perfectly straight using a straight edge. CA may not adhere well to oily woods.
My dad just eyeballed it mostly without a straight edge and sanded according to the direction of the grain. Doesn't have to be perfectly on the mil. all we used was a 2 part epoxy and sandpaper. the neck wasn't perfected until i broke it in later adjusting the truss rod after playing it for a few weeks breaking some upright bass strings in the process.
Very very helpful. Oddly enough JUST what I needed to see. Thank you for taking the time to make it.
Dude, we’re halfway through the materials needed and I’m on the edge of my seat! Great production!
Best video on the topic I’ve seen, bonus point to the voice man 10/10 more gear vids please.
Dude, I think I can listen to your voice all day! Interesting video, thanks for taking the time to share this and for the helpful advice.
This video was extremely good quality mate
I really appreciate how much this guy messed up and showed it and owned up to it
Great video and thanks for taking the trouble :) Also like the technical depth, and honest objective final report. Top marks. I'm also an Ibanez player, my go-to brand.. Best value for money :)
i love your videos bu its you're voice that is the selling part you could seriously voice over ANYTHING
Thanks for sharing this video. You've explained the process and things you learned along the way very well. Almost like 'the scientific method'. My son pulled out the frets on his Ibanez 5 string a year or so ago, and really doesn't know how to put a protective finish on the neck. It's an under $500 bass so he's not been too keen on taking it to a luthier. ❤️🎸🎶😎
Thanks for the great story, nice tips and the humorous style! I feel I should try buffing my epoxy coated warwick since it looks really dull.
Thank you for this video. I used this as a guide after converting a fretted bass (Ibanez BTB 747) to fretless. I just filled the fret slots with pau ferro sawdust and CA. Then followed your steps. It turned out great.
Great to hear that! Wow, you must be the first to actually use this as a tutorial. I am happy that it worked for you!
@@Noone-of-your-Business I think a lot of folks here have used this as a tutorial they just didn't mention it .. Yet 😁
Nice results thanks for the video
Despite your recommendation, I subscribed anyway, great video, very instructive and I really liked the analysis portion (and the honesty of "well it didn't work they way I wanted it to")
Good job, excellent comparison on fretless rosewood fingerboard.
Thanks for the detailed experience. It will help a lot of us bass player 🙂 !
amazing video experience. Thanks!
This was the most informative and entertaining video of all the conversions I've watched. I now know that I will never attempt this. I already know the woodworking is not my best talent - I am a hack and I can't hide it. I'm not even a huge fan of fretless playing but I wanted to find out by watching this instead of ruining an instrument. Mission accomplished! The candid commentary was just the best!
Cool project, thanks for sharing!
Respect for your honest demo :)
Thank you for sharing your experience on this!
Your video made my choice of fingerboard for my 36' flat fretless (im a woodworker). I did a total of 13 layers during the day, no activator, sanded up to 2000 grit by hand on top of a 5mm vynil board. I mostly slap that thing, and let me tell you, after a year of use shits holding up great. Has a VERY clicky vibe to it, kinda like it, a bit more subtle than on Korn records.
Seriously, 13 layers of cyanoacrylate glue? Do you happen to know what type of sealer Les Claypool has used and if he gave it that same amount?
Thanks for sharing your experience.
everyone is talking about his voice but I'm just focused on that bass, smexy bass
With such a casual approach, you can't nail the guy!
A serious approach to change the physical properties of (cheap) wood was impregnation of the wood with a suitable "resin" under vaccum and irridating it with Gama rays to harden it, proved successful with its machineability, and other sought physical properties.
Perhaps this research was gagged.
Glad to find your vid ! I had the exact same bass here and it doesn’t reach my expectations,
Overall it’s a lower cost Indonesia made Ibanez which shouldn’t compare with bass like Fbass
AC6, but it really need a mod to be a usable fretless bass.
The coating to the rosewood finger broad is one of the must to improve the high notes, but
one other important issue are the nut, it’s plastic so I had to make a brass nut myself, it does made note clear,
Also put on an other set of flatness strings ( I took high C and no low B) and proved the original string are no good. Last parts changed are the magnetic pickups, a pair of Northstand instead the OEM Barton’s mark I .
, overall results are very nicely improved, so the last thing is to follow your CA project which I think will make
It complete. Thanks !
Nice work, I appreciate the comparison. Also showing your mistakes/lessons learned was helpful.
I'm considering converting my ubass to fretless, and I like the coated fingerboard on my Rickenbacker. I might end up going with epoxy or mylar instead of CA glue.
I've converted my Warwick Corvette to fretless using epoxy, it is a long process :D Took me about 8 days to get it done. Epoxy takes really long to dry, like over a day. I was a bit impatient and the epoxy was sometimes bit sticky which made sandpapering it down really hard. However the result is pretty good, not that I like the passive mics that I have on it, going to try to swap them to some active EMGs. Good luck with your project!
My father and I had applied something like 11 layers of epoxy to the fingerboard of my fretless project bass back in 2002. It was certainly labor intensive - we had bought a radiused sanding block from Stew Mac. More recently, I realized the epoxy coating was causing the extra high mids/treble that I didn't want in my sound (it was sounding far too synthetic, and lacked warmth), so I sanded off (most) of the epoxy. I'm not sure that I removed all of it, but I'll have to wait for next spring or summer (once it warms up enough) AND use the wet sanding paper method you had shown!
2024 is beginning as I comment. How did it ultimately work out, Max?
Brilliant video, exactly what I needed to know, thanks:)
This guy should be a voice actor.
Well your voice is awesome and I found this interesting. You got a subscriber
Appreciate the vid and the work put in. Trying to decide how to finish my fretless conversion
My bought festless is unfinished, I love it. I have converted an LTD to fretless, w/ high gloss enamel coated fretboard tuned DGCF, and a fender acoustic guitar converted to a fretless w/ a high gloss Acrylic coated fretboard, tuned BEADGC. And about to create a frets 1-12 fretted, frets 13-19 fretless 6 string classical guitar, it will remain unfinished. I like both for different reasons. Plus ea. of my instruments is different, each tuned throughout the scale of BEADGCF, so they all blend in succession when overlaid in recording. I'm also working on a custom acoustic guitar converted into a 4 string short scale rubber band bass. Play both kinds before you commit. They both have much to offer but are completely similar at the same time. *overall, note placement, manipulation, and string attack are the key elements of fretless.
@@andrewgocken517 I bought an LTD b-204 fretless and I love the feel and look but I don't get quite the "mawh" sound I'd like.After watching this video it doesn't seem like the work is worth the limited result.I do notice that the most pronounced "mawh" seems to come from higher end basses.
@@kevmac1230 try "finger?" picking right at the bottom of your neck and crank your mids. Make sure your neck is flat, if not adjust it. My fretless cost a $120. Shit you not, my other I made. Set it up or get it set up, nice flexable, round wound strings. I almost put mine down before I did this. Now I love it. The mwahh, fret slightly off and add vibrato. It should help also. Hope it works out. It's a different animal, give it another chance. Good luck
@@andrewgocken517 Thanks, I'll keep plugging.
@@kevmac1230 my homemade fretless is a LTD. It is very different. It's more about intonation and learning how to use and intensify the sounds a fretless produces. Try running bass, treble pretty flat 4-5 and your hi and low miss cranked to like 8-9. Play with you controls try bridge only, neck only, somewhere in between. Try using your middle finger close to the neck press hard against the string and pop your finger off of it. And check out Alain Caron. He's amazing.
Thanks very much for your great explanation.
This cracked me up AND cheered me up. Thx 😂
I've been meaning to do this to one of my spare basses turned fretless and have been experimenting on some scrap wood.
1) You should be using a radiused block and not a flat one.. Soundgear basses all have 12inch radius btw
2) Do not use the activator. Let the glue dry on it's own in a dry atmosphere if possible. Wait at least a couple days before doing the finisb sanding.
3) Depending on the wood, sometimes it's better to use just the thin one, sometimes just the thick an one, sometimes first layer with thin one then thick one.. sometimes first layer with thick one then top with the thin version.
One thing I did for sanding was using a sponge instead of a sanding block, by using a sponge the sand paper went with the radius of the fretboard
Thank you for the great video!
Just a side note, if you us a few drops of dish soap when wet sanding it helps a great deal.
You did a much better job than I did.I'm glad I caught this as it is such an honest assessment.I recently picked up an LTD Fretless after a conversion job that was less than stellar.I am however loving the Fretless after almost 5 decades (I'm old)of standard.
I wish I had the courage to switch years ago but better late than never.The LTD is a 500 dollar bass but is very nice actually.I'd love a beautiful one like a Pedulla buzz bass or something of that nature.But at my stage in the game it doesn't make sense and the LTD is so good for the money.Luck to ya'
Very interesting for sure. thanks for sharing. I will not think about trying this anymore ;-)
Thanks for this. Really enjoyed your video.
I also have the same Ibanez SRF705 and was thinking about doing what you did to improve tone. After watching, I decided to leave the neck treatment and switch the pickups to Bartolini MK2's and the preamp for a Nordstrand. Played with the piezo settings a bit, and now this bass is MWAH like Jaco. My main gigging bass.
Interesting. Maybe I should try _that_ next. 😉
They both sound nice.
loved the video - thanks
great vid!
Very interesting! I did much the same but with tung oil, and to smooth out some of the string dents. It kind of worked, but not sure if it was worth the effort. Also, with tung oil, don't lay it on thick, remove excess and be prepared to spend a couple of months building it up.
I would probably have gone one step further than a sanding block and buy some radiused sanding blocks. If the fretboard on your bass has a compound radius, you might need several different sized radius sanding blocks. You might as well get a full set of them if you plan to do repairs and mods on other instruments in the future.
Thankyou for making this video. I've considered finishing the fretboard on the nice Hamer USA fretless Cruise Bass I have to get it to sound more like Michael Manring's bass. His tone is my holy grail for fretless bass. I think I'll leave my bass alone, and if anything just try to find a hard wax to protect the ebony finger board and provide just a bit harder, smoother surface.
Schön gemacht.
Really good video
I just bought a used fender fretless neck that needs to be refinished. You answered the question if I should epoxy it. Thanks!
Hi, I converted a kit bass and tried the super glue route but I wish I'd seen this first.You heard the gent say he didn't think the payoff was worth the effort.I found the glue thing a bit more difficult than I thought it would be.I'd go for a nice tung oil or something of that nature if I did it again,but you have to do what you think best.Good luck.
In my opinion, this type of project would be very useful for restoration if your fretless fingerboard is excessively worn. Willy g hit the nail on the head, wonderful speaking voice, you should be a professional narrator if you’re not already.
This is one of those videos that's just fantastic. Great narration, in quality and personality. The video itself is very well put together and it's a great, detailed but concise, walkthrough of the process. A real treat to watch! Awesome work in nearly every way!
Thank you very much! 😁 It is very satisfying to see that I was able to help.
Great video, and world class voice and pronunciation thanks for your work! .... you are definitely a speaker for radio or television - if not, then you have a hundred percent job there! are from the German-speaking area, as your components are described in German.
Touché! 😉 Thank you very much.
fantastic video.
wanted to coat my fretless in CA last time but ended up getting a luthier to coat it with epoxy.
i have enjoyed watchin..i am tryin to do a old converted fretless maple Samick again..someone before me made a shit of it (chipped fretboard etc..poor fret lines filled with dont know what..)..so it is always smart to watch someone elses experience
Please tell me a sleep story. Your voice is perfect for it.
I am defretting an Ibanez SR655 and thanks to your video, I now won't be using super glue for the final finish.
Awesome Voice!!
You sir are a genius on so many level!!! I truly appreciate you sharing your experience and insight on this project.
UA-cam should force this narrative format on every video. Especially the background guitar. And the spectral analysis.
The conclusion is the best... Its honest, no lies, what I like most. You got some pros, but not in sound. Thats important. Anyway, the fact is portamento is one of the best fretless basses.
Nice. Just got a Fender MB-5 that someone along the way had pulled a “Jaco” and I was debating doing a finish - decided against based upon your experience and am going with a good set of Flats instead.
"And after you had a good one, don't forget to wipe"
I'll show myself out and come back when I'm not laughing like an immature idiot.
I WAS going to do that -- thanks to you, don't think I'll trust myself with this level of workmanship -- just gonna go ask my local luthier -- good work by the way :)
Thank you very informative video
very nice video indeed.... informatibe and funny... great!!!!
This dude is really funny… It got my attention all the way through the video…
That's an excellent channel one of the best and definitely one of the most honest and open experiments ... The best bit is when you say don't bother subscribing !
Someone should donate you a new bass then you can have your original tone back ,You deserve it!
Excellent give us more videos ,,,,, I will subscribe lol
Nice vid. Craftsmanship was great sir. I will say I have the same bass but the four string. I really like the natural wood tone from it but that’s just me
I'm finishing to build another fretless bass and I have been using a maple fingerboard this time. I usely use harder woods, like pear tree, or palissander that I get durring my trips to Brazil.
I was wondering if maple is hard enough, and if could it be better to coat it... Thanks to this video, I won't have this extra work and expenses!
I build basses for personal use and the sound I like is closer to the "before" test.
So... very useful video!
Great video, you have a great voice for narrations. However I think that using a radius block to do the sanding would’ve made a tremendous difference in eliminated the uneven pockets on the fingerboard, which can be the cause of loss of sustain and resonance. I’ve seen several others scribble lines with a pencil down the entire length which helps give a visual of low spots or pockets when sanding. But I very much enjoyed your video sir.
We want more videos! 👍
Very nicely done video.I tried doing this to a conversion bass from fretted.Not the greatest results but I didn't know what I was doing,you are much more through.So I bought an Esp-LTD fretless for 700 bucks and while it looks and plays beautiful it doesn't get the mawh I hear on others.I hear guys playing high enders and every note they lightly touch gets that sound in spades.I guess you get what you pay for.
I know I'll end up putting them onl
I know a guy that did it with clear finger nail polish and it came out beautiful 👍.
Nail polish is MUCH too soft for this
@@Bloodray19 he has had it for 4 years, plays and gigs with it all the time and it still looks great 🎸👍.
I've been playing my Fender Pre since it was new. 1970. I have 2 necks and always have one on the ready. I use to have Kurt Wright from Cleveland do it till I moved out West. Great guy. Talked me how to do it. Between that and multiple on the road spot repairs ....You are to Spray it ON...in VERY VERY thin layers. Multiple thin layers with each layer totally dries, Use one of the facial air sprayers for makeup applications. All you'll have to do is BUFF IT. No actual sanding...Each layer you come from a different direction and THIN! start spraying well before the neck so the spray is even. I'm comin up on 70 yrs this July. Totally worked it over by now, 1st original BadAss bridge, 1st HI-A pick ups, Brass nut. Tuners sealed etc. So, ya never thought of trying it on a piece of hardwood...Hmmm...I never had that much spare cash on hand. God bless and pass the amunition. Nice camera work !
That's a really interesting take on the myth of a hard finished fretboard, fascinating thanks for posting it. You should console yourself with the fact you've got a great sounding bass and way of recording it anyway.
I agree. 😁
Love this. New subscriber.
You really did great job with this modification! Btw, although there is no improvement in the sound, if the feeling of playing is improved in the left hand, that's also something that should be accounted. If someone play fretless, then slides are frequently done, and it seems to me that this kind of fingerboard should make those slides feel at least a bit better.
I’ve discovered that to be the case on guitar. Playing a guitar with a lacquered fingerboard does tend to be comfortable.
I know you are not gonna post much but if you can, a fretless bass conversion would be an awesome video.
Great thanks.🇬🇧
Done on a rosewood fingerboard: glass finish after about 15 coats & polishing. The sound is really brighter.
Great work! Try round-wound strings now that you’ve got a hard surface. I quite like DR sunbeams on my Rickenbacker 4003FL.
Nice one. This helps me to decide if I should do the same to my de-fretted old bass (I didn't do it myself, I bought it like that). So far everything points to HELL NO!
A couple of notes about activator: firstly it's 99% water with a drop of dish soap in it and a waste of money. When you add it to super glue as a finish you are adding moisture to wet glue that displaces some of the glue and you'll get an uneven finish 100% of the time. When you apply just a thin layer of CA and let it cure with the moisture in the air it'll cure fast enough (10-20 minutes). I usually do 10 or more layers before sanding with a radius block too, this lets me find any high spots without sanding through the finish in the lower spots. On a particularly humid day I can get 10 layers on in under an hour, sand, polish, restring, and setup all before lunch and not a single squirt of activator needed.
Thanks for the tip. I had no such background knowledge when I did this project, since I am not a professional woodworker or luthier. This in strictly on amateur level. I made this video because I was looking for information online and could not find anything with useful instructions on how exactly to do this. So I decided to give it a shot myself and to publish _my_ results so that others would _find_ something when trying to tackle the same problem.
Concerning ingredients, I could not find the original product that I used on this any more, but it did say something about containing acetone, and it did have a distinctly chemical smell to it, too.
And as you can see, I stopped _long_ before 10 layers, and in spite of all problems with even application, this bass plays beautifully and the surface is still in pristine condition.
I don't think I will ever do this again, but thanks for your input none the less.
Informative. I was thinking of doing this to my fretless but decided it's not worth it. the wear that the fretboard has matches the bumps and bruises a 35 year old bass tends to get. I never fixed the pickup selector switch that broke and I bypassed 25 years ago. I doubt I would go through this effort now.
This took me back to 1983 and the day I decided to irrevocably turn my 1962 Fender Precision into a fretless bass. It was an impetuous and rash decision. So rash in fact that when the idea popped into my head I jumped out of the shower and ran wrapped in a towel to pull the frets out with a set of pliers.
In hindsight, I wish I'd done it on a less valuable instrument first, but it had been well modified by its previous owner in the 1970's already. So it was "Player Grade" anyway.
The differences in my application were...
1.) I used ONLY gel superglue. No thin variety.
2.) Disposable foam trim brushes to spread glue. It went on wonderfully even, and I just threw the brush away between coats. The whole pack was I think $5.00.
3.) No accelerant. I was in no hurry. I let each coat dry to hard naturally, and then applied the next coat of gel.
4.) No sanding between coats, so I wasn't sanding through the already very thin layers. I did use a flat sanding block from the outset, as the radius was well defined and the gel coat thin.
The result? Well I played it HARD for 20 years solid with roundwounds. Recently I finally wore through the glue layers around the third fret on the E string.
I didn't want to mess with it this time, so I took it to a luthier to do. He preferred epoxy this time and it didn't come out quite as nice. Some cloudy spots. He built it up pretty thick, and without realizing it changed the radius from 7.25" to 9" because that was the sanding block he had. He hadn't bothered to check the pre-epoxy radius. I was not happy.
Made mental note to buy a 7.25 radius block and do it again myself when I find time. Can't possibly mess it up any worse.
Now _there's_ an intriguing story. Thanks for sharing.
This is also the first ever statement I read about the durability of CA coating. Makes me optimistic about playing mine with flatwounds.
@@Noone-of-your-Business Oh, yes, I did it in 1983 and played that bass exclusively with roundwounds at least most nights a week between learning tunes, rehearsals and performances until 2006 when I got a fretted Jazz bass to trade duties with. Still played the fretless though, and that spot didn't wear through to wood until 2019. That's 36 years of roundwounds. The rest of the board was fine, and I probably could have just touched it up, but I chose the full resurface. Really wish now I had just touched it up myself.
About the same year (1983) I saw this Guy on TV playing a Music Man Stingray with added Precision split Pickups on, so i bought some Seymour Duncan's ,and with hammer and chisel installed them , I've now learned that the serial No, of my Bass (still got it) Is in the first year of Manufacture
@@leoneddy1492 YIKES! I've developed personal scientific formula for this phenomenon actually:
M+t=R2
That reads aloud as "Mods Plus Time Equals Regret Squared"
@@dreamingpanthers1847 Genuis! I'm gonna use that😉
Lol this man is awesome and his realistic approach
You don't need visual analysis. They depends only from the type of strings the applied pressure from your fingers and the action of stings.
Best villain type voice.
The #1 reason for epoxy on a fret board is to prevent grooves from forming on the fretboard. If you purchase one with an ebony fretboard, you don't need the epoxy protection. If you get the proper epoxy, you only have to apply once. Always remove the nut. Adjust the truss rod to make the fretboard absolutely flat before you do anything. When using a block sander, never sand in sections. Sand through one end to the other. That's why you need to remove the nut.