"Idols don't need to know how to sing" is unhinged.
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 тра 2024
- Internet and netizens had massively negative reaction to Le Sserafim encore stage. Are encore stages supposed to be the best showcase of live singing? How did IVE and Seungmin from SKZ showcased how to deal with vocals after receiving the backlash from fans?
PATREON: / katriinkamusic
SINGING LESSONS: www.katriinka.com/
TIKTOK: / katriinkattv
INSTAGRAM: / katriinkamusic
00:00 - Idols don't need to know how to sing
00:46 - Encore stages are hardcore stages
04:11 - Bullying vs. Constructive Criticism
07:18 - How IVE pushed through
09:20 - Songs that just do NOT fit
12:02 - Companies and their lack of vocal support
13:17 - Seungmin effect on high standards
16:55 - so...can idols just...not sing?
17:32 - Bullies vs. Apologizers
18:57 - Outro
#lesserafim #lesserafimeasy #lesserafimeasyencorestage
#ive #ivevocals #seungmin
#encorestage #vocalcoach #katriinka - Розваги
On the positive note, which encore stage is your favorite? It can be good with singing, but also just plain fun and giggles.
Blackpink with How You Like That! You can see they're just having fun and enjoy performing ❤️
Any NMIXX encore!
The NMIXX encore in Dash where they very naturally start singing and then dancing as if it were:
Okay we'll just do what we always do in the dance room.
The confidence they showed in their 3 awards was to be admired.
Blackpink how you like that!!! And any seventeen encore!!
Shinee's Dream Girl encore where jonghyun was singing while doing push-ups! sooo fun and impressive at the same time
I don’t think kpop stans realize how backhanded it sounds to say “kpop idols don’t need to know how to sing” like that’s not a compliment AT ALL😭 like dancing while singing is very hard obviously but if u have trouble singing your lines while standing still baby we gotta fix that and these companies need to hire vocal coaches for both the idol’s growth and self-esteem as artists
EXACTLY
And you can't even say this to those fans because they would refuse to accept the truth and label you as HATER especially if it's about a popular group, they would call you jealous and what not 😂
it's not even like we're expecting mamamoo levels of vocals from them either. i just wanna hear sakura singing STABLE without her voice going up and down when she is just standing. she's a veteran idol but she's still given a lot of leeway (esp by the younger fearnots) when it comes to her singing ability (or the lack thereof). i don't expect them to do crazy vocal runs, i just want her voice to not come off shaky and pitchy when she is just standing there not doing anything else. but even this is apparently too much to ask for.
i don't think the whole group needs to be stellar at it, that's the main vocal's job. each member is picked bc they bring sth to the group. it's why groups exists. it's business to add a super popular visual idol to the group even if they're not good at singing. it's also a little unrealistic to expect them to sing live perfectly all the time like normal singers, they have to dance too.
@@PriyanshuKumar-ez6qiim not delulu like those i just hate how unnecessarily mean people are pretending to be concerned even disgusting
If you’re not a main vocal, then maybe you don’t need super advanced singing skills. Not all idols have to be Ariana Grande. But you should still be a singer, and still know how to sing. Otherwise what are you? Just a backup dancer?
Yes Sakura is a massively popular visual dancer who relies on autotune and pitch correction quite a bit in their songs.
How is that so difficult to accept?
This! But the problem is kpop fans are mostly hardcore and won't accept that, they're angry if you point that out and ask of your credentials.
@@monochromedoutit's not just Sakura, it's for every kpop groups but thank you for pointing out one of the problems.
Sakura is a pretty capable singer if you give her the right songs I mean just look at her Japanese songs like kuroi tenshi or get you or if you are lucky when she sings in her weverse live she can sing it's just that as the video said the concept of le sserafim does not allow that because the ever changing comeback system that they have
@@freedomprice9173 but Le Sserafim's songs aren't even hard. They only sing lower to whisper, how does it changes her singing ability?
Sakura has been an idol for 13 years. And she said that she only recently received vocal training. This is a mystery.
It's because 48group company never gave their trainnees a vocal class or neither a dance class, and this is a fact.
Her japanese group debuts most of them when they are prepubescent girls for visuals plus the fact it's several of them in the same group fighting for attention and relevance to be able to stay until they "graduate". They don't care about vocals at all.
gets away with it with her extreme good looks
As a worker in actual laboral landscape it is up to them or her, in this case, to look for a vocal lessons and paid from their pockets as every other worker, it is up to the individual to look for their own improvement and self actulization in their laboral skills.
Specially now because she is not an employee of Hybe nor which ever was Iz*One agency was, she is a partner with them so it is evenmore her responsability to atend her shortcoming.
@@onwednesdaywewearpink they do give them dance classes
Finally someone speaks the truth. We should keep our standards, not to lower them with time.
Singers should sing, everything else are excuses.
I wish those immature fearnots understand this simple concept of singers should be able to sing lol
@@urhypeboy did you even watch this video?
@@urhypeboyI'm sorry but what should they do now, Kick all the members out of the group because they can't sing?
It's too late for that, leave them alone and go for the companies and the groups that still didn't debut yet.
Because it's not their fault that they got into the debut team, It's the people that chose them to be and thought their vocals were up to standards
@@0remy0 it's not about kicking them out, it's about accepting that these girls do not have the vocals. Too many lsf fans defend these girls instead of encouraging them to get lessons. They really need to stop acting like they're the best singers in the world and see their vocals for what they are
They are idols, not singers. And that's a huge difference everyone needs to understand. Period
14:43 You are absolutely right! Another example is Baekhyun, almost 12 years in the industry and till now he still takes regular vocal lessons on top of his multiple schedules despite being recognized already as one of the best in the industry and that makes me admire and respect him more 😊
Fun fact seungmin actually gets vocal lesson from the same vocal coach as baekhyun :)
Yes.
He vocally puts 90% of HYBE idols to shame.
You know Bollywood singers are classical singers and I learned classical as well, so to keep our voice stable, we need to practice regularly either in the mornings or evenings. If you don’t regular practice the voice cracks, so practice is must just like exercises.
YES! Baekhyun my king, soo often went instagram live, in the midnight, on the way to attend his vocal lesson! Thats amazing :(
In short, the problem is that the companies have a very lucrative approach, and they expose the idols. An example was ITZY, they didn't reach the high notes and they lowered it 2 tones and it worked. I remember how JYP talked to the girls and they reached that agreement. JYP accepted and ITZY did a good job, in his encore he was able to go far enough to not be the focus of humiliation.
do u remember where u saw this?
@@soshi3291it was in the bet on me documentary if I remember well
@@soshi3291 Sorry for answering instead of OP but I'm pretty sure it was in the behind the scenes recording/documentary for Bet On Me
JYP has such a voided approach when it comes to high notes. sometimes it’s not about them being out of range, the man has an obsession with sharp/gritty voices. He even tried this with Tiffany of SNSD, she had two high notes and told her the second one was too weak, to what she replied it was not “weak” she just went out a bit smoother to follow up with the change of melody.. otherwise it’d sound as if she was screaming. I feel bad for ITZY specially, Yeji, because I’ve seen her cover of BTS among other old clips from Vlive and you can tell the girl just an unpolished diamond.
The moment I heard EXO, they already set high standard for me. They were tagged as vocal kings already but up to this day, they still attend vocal lessons. I guess that's the kind of dedication the idols must have. A great artist/singer should never stop seeking of improvement. You can never be satisfied. These days, as long as the idols have amazing dancing skills and visuals, they can be popular. I don't know, but for me, when it comes to listening to music, VOCALS should be on top of the priority.
I love your comment, I joined KPOP thanks to Exo, so I have very high standards about talent, Kpop talent. I don't consider myself a kpoper, but I'm a fan of two very talented bands Nmixx and Exo
most SM groups can sing. SM is a powerhouse when it comes to vocalists
You should check Infinite then. They are awesome. Their mr removed really famous
THIS IS SO TRUEEE IF YOU STAN EXO, YOUR STANDARD WHEN IT COMES TO VOCALS ARE HIGH!!
True.... that's make me stan SM artist for vocals power house and YG artist for hip hop swaggy since 2008..they never disappointed me untill now🎉🎉
13:20 seungmin's private vocal lessons' has another good affect for other members such as IN and leeknow started to study with his vocal coach too and if I'm not wrong even han is planning to attend them( Lee know and han signed and album for that vocal coach and han wrote something like 'may I join you guys sometimes") it seems like everybody inspired from Seungmin's dedication
Yes!,Han did indeed atend with Seungmin,I.N and Lino!,that's why all 4 of them are better singers and have vocal support,hopefully,Hyunjin,Felix,Bang Chan and Changbin follows them and they will be a really good vocal group too! ❤
I also noticed that some of the weakest vocalist seem to always de Japanese... Moka from illit, momo and mina from twice etc. I wonder why that is
@@mariasol1545 Sakura and Kazuha from Le sserafim,the only exception i can think is Mina from twice and Rei from IVE (Not really actually) i bet they are more but these are the ones im thinking right now
But they sound terrible & use heavy autotune in their songs😢😢💀💀
@@demonslayer4951 Wow, to say that, you probably haven't really listened to their songs, or maybe you just don't like them much. But everyone's entitled to their opinion. Let me say this again: they have a lot of slow and singing-focused songs, especially when you hear them live or listen closely to their recordings. Han, Seungmin, Lee Know, Chan, and I.N are particularly good at singing high notes and staying steady.
About the auto-tune thing, Bang Chan, the producer, explained in a livestream why they use it sometimes, especially in hip-hop songs. He said it adds a special touch and is needed for certain styles. Also, when they release albums, Chan often shares their raw singing recordings without any music. And we can hear these in their recording behind the scenes videos (cuz bang Chan changbin and han record their vocals too as main producers so their behind scenes are longer)
From what I've heard (and I know a bit about singing), their singing is actually pretty good, especially compared to other groups in the industry-especially the ones under HYBE Entertainment.
So, if you judge them based on just a few title track songs, you might still hear a few good singing parts, even though their recent title tracks mostly produced rap, edm and malatang taste combo(which they've made into a new music genre) (for examples la la la la and case 143's outro parts)
It’s HYBE. They keep on popping out groups like a factory. That their idols look like manufactured dolls. That still lacks proper training. Most of their groups lip syncs and are bad at singing. Unlike the BIG 3 that invests a lot on their trainees to make sure that they’re not just debuting idols but artists. YG debuts groups every 4-5 years but the individual talent of each member is astounding. They don’t focus on one skill, they’re all rounders and you can’t question their live singing and vocals coz even their rappers have vocal lessons.
Blackpink can't sing though
@@ketakikhobragade7168lol nice try
@@ketakikhobragade7168 well.. no! they're no SM vocalist but if u watch their encores and concert fancams, they sound just like studio ver. and rosé is a gem. the biased bp discrediting will never end i fear🤦🏽♀😭
@@ketakikhobragade7168Definitivamente estas sordo o no sabes nada de canto.
@@tiffanymp4152 bp is like ive, kpop stans have a serious obsession with discrediting their talent😭😭😭
It was only when I started listening to Billlie that I realized that most companies really don't make songs that fit their idols, but rather make their idols fit the songs.
Like, any time I listen to a Billlie song it is clear why the particular idol is singing that part. It works perfectly with their tone, color and technical level. The fact that they had an easy time during their encore just further proves that.
I have to say that not only on a technical level but also just a quality level, there is a huge improvement in the sound when a somg is clearly made for the idol in mind rather than vice versa
I've just realised... has Katriinka ever even reacted to Billlie?! I just did a YT search, and nothing came up..! 😱
at first i thought you were critizing billlie for their vocals and i was so confused cause they have some of my all time favorite songs and vocals lol
another group i'd add to that list is xdinary heroes, tho i haven't followed them that closely from what i've heard they sound aboslutly gorgeous when singing
@@lucyandecember2843they are absolutely amazing. jooyeon especially has an amazing voice!
you are 100% on point with this. I was a huge fan of everglow. A while ago people complained one member, mia, got way too many lines. It was a fair criticism, she got half the lines and no one understood why. One day a demo version of the song leaked, there was equal line distribution and the other members just didnt sound good singing the song. Why would a company give a group a song when half the members dont sound good? Why give one member half the lines if you have 5 other members? Like you said, companies dont have songs that fit idols, they have the idols mold to the song, and it doesnt always work out
Thank you for recognizing the constant work that the IVE girls put in to improve their vocals. They have worked hard to get where they are and it is really unfair to see how many minimize their talents
Can you please tell me what IVE song she is talking about in which they improved so much 😄
@@ayushiyadav2000 I AM- IVE
@@ayushiyadav2000 IVE - I AM
@@ayushiyadav2000 Ive's I Am, that song proved that they indeed improved a lot. They have a lot of live performances singing I Am.
@@ayushiyadav2000 bruh it's I am
istg people always have to "criticize IVE" when really they are "bullying IVE", its actually so unfair bc i adore this group and i see they work so hard in their performances and they do well as well YET its still never good enough for these ppl when IVE is a good group, i honestly think to have someone like you as their vocal coach is exactly what kpop companies need, you are amazing at what you do and i learn alot from you, thank you for sharing this video and have a nice day!!
real, i never understand the hate train against IVE
yes the level of hate is vile and irrational. If i dont like a group for what they are offering, I simply do not stan. But I will call out people that are delusional about the level of skills an idol has because that makes me mad even if I stan or dont stan the person or group. YOu can be hyped and supportive of a group or an Idol but dont be a delusional liar. IF someone is bad they are bad it something it is just a fact sometimes, or maybe not say bad but rather need improvement or are not skilled at xyz. But you dont need to be a bully about it or obssesively mention it. Also facts is being an idol isnt just about singing or dancing or rapping or performance, it is also about being a personality and entertainer, influencer and model sometimes even an actor. So some Idols are hired for specific postions which is fine. But what we should not do is lie about what they are and the level of skill they have. I have a handfull of groups I stan and some I casually listen to and follow and also my Ultimate group I stan and across them I have seen people actually to effective improvement and earn their titels as professional dancers, singers or rappers. But some idols hardwork or not in a certain era just do not reach that level of actually being good and that is fine because often they are in the group for a different reason aka model, actor, influencer etc. but the only problem I have is when fans lie abou the level of skill the idol actually has and worse when the company does not help improve their skills or does not give memebers who are actualy skilled a change and hype up purely visual members I find that a shame (not the fault of the idol but the company) but I usually end up not stanning that group anyways that such things make me mad and it makes me loose interest in the group. I also usualy only stan self producing or at least 60% percent self producing and self writing Idol groups aka Idol-Artist groups because I cant connect with Idols and Idols groups that dont sing things they experience or dont create (same goes for all music I listen to btw I dont just apply a different standard on kpop, I a high standard for all the genres of music I listen to).
People were bullying a child for lip syncing after a heavyass schedule and they keep holding this over her head, despite the fact that Leeseo keeps improving and has shown countless times during the tour that HER MIC IS ON AND SHE'S STABLE. It's insane that these people went from degrading IVE girls to saying that singers don't actually need to sing because a HYBE gg messed up. Kpop stans never give grace to ggs from smaller companies.
It is not just IVE. Every kpop idol group go through the same thing
@@yongdol73 well i wasn't even their fan back then but I've never seen a hate train as severe as what IVE went through and it's just bcs of a girl eating strawberry, a 15 y/o girl's cute accent, evil edited videos from big fandoms against IVE which is only a newly fresh debuted group.. like they got hate for the MOST RIDICULOUS reasons
Hybe seriously needs to realize how to fully unleash their artists' potential 😭 I'm still so upset that after 5 years other members are deprived of lines from certain songs because they always make txt songs in high-register...I wanna hear more of beomgyu and their lower tones
oh yesss!! this is what I meant - incorrect keys on the way up and also down. Now thinking about TXT it fits too perfectly. Good catch!
More and more non vocalists idols having vocal parts that they’re straggling to sing, I think it’s really unhealthy how kpop companies giving idols vocal parts and not giving vocal lessons
But it's also up to the idols to want to partake in those lessons too. As an idol, if you want more lines but you don't do the effort to train your vocals, you shouldn't be surprised. There's a reason some groups with a reasonable amount of members sometimes have 1 or 2 members with the most lines.
people who attended ive's concert during their on going tour had nothing but praises for their live vocals. they are dedicated performers who are determined to improve.
Maybe its just me but the backtrack is too loud...and when one of the members got into little accident the vocals kept on going did not even glitch even though she stumble & her mouth is not moving...😭 i though its just me but i saw a video version of that ...
@@noirnoironey isn’t that most of the concerts of other idols too? i went to ive recent concert in singapore, and attended many concert of various idols for the past ten years. When theyre in a big tour, ofc they couldnt sing live 100% every concert every night, so there will be at least one or two songs where they turn the backtrack ridiculously loud so that if the idol want to skip the line to take a breath it wouldn’t disrupt the rhythm and vibe. And trust me, concerts are 5x more intense for the idols where they mostly have to use oxygen masks or pumps every time they go back stage for vcr/unit songs, especially during world tours. FYI, just bcuz the backtrack is extremely loud and they skip one or two lines, that doesn’t mean they just skip all their lines in the song
Ive also did well in their encores too.
I was at their Newark concert and they sounded great! Wonyoung is getting really good at speaking English too.
For real this is so true. Like someone even said "AS LONG AS THEY SATISFY THE FAN'S FANTASY, IT'S OKAY" . It seems like they are treating them like an object, when in fact they are artist and as an artist the BARE MINIMUM is that they should KNOW HOW TO SING.
Because that's the reality. Karina won't apologize for having a boyfriend if SM stans only care about music and singing as they brag on X.
You mean "as long as they fulfill the fangirl's fantasy". The girlfriend fantasy has really collapsed since the majority of Kpop companies decided they don't give a F about having male fans anymore.
So proud of Seungmin, his hard work has really paid off, he has a new OST called Phobia being released in a few days. 🐶🥰
In fact most of SKZ members continue to pay for lessons to improve themselves, not just in singing but some in dancing as well.
Well they are workaholics and in love with their job so... But I think it's a strength that not everyone have. I'm really proud with how they improved their vocals.
Agree,I heard their song 'case 143' on THE FIRST TAKE and yes they are really talent individuals.shamefully,I thought they using Autotune back days 😅😅😅
Autotune on skz song its for anesthetic purposes not to make then sing bette
You can literally search any skz song concert version and u ll see those 8 singing/rapping while having th craziest choreo and sound Perfectly
Starship is a company that does a lot of live performances. K-pop fans claimed that IVE is not doing live, but it is actually the 3rd most live performance girl group in 2022. They have performed more live stages since then and have improved with each comeback. They have become excessively undervalued because they do not have the fandom to protect them just because they are not BIG4's girl group. It is easy to feel that they are still developing.
That's so interesting because everything I see from 4th gen is about how Wonyoung is basically the most popular female idol. That also comes with a LOT of horrible comments towards her, but IVE generally does well (from what I see) because of that.
@@just-a-generic-username Wonyoung's idol journey is truly insane to me. She debuted when she was a kid in one of the most successful ggs of her generation and then chose a non-big 4 company and once again debuted in one of the most successful ggs in her generation! She had absolutely no company stan support and now she's hailed as the it girl. Mad respect.
14:02 skz has always been so so proud and expressed their respect for seungmin's work ethic. he never slacked off of vocal lessons and did so because he wanted to. evidently, the way he jumps from ranges and sound so heavenly as well as keeping his natural tone is a result of his determination and hard work
honestly i miss encore stages pre-covid, they just all felt so much more fun and relaxed. actually i just miss 3rd gen in general. kpop has been ultra produced for a while, but after it got super worldwide it's sooo overproduced. like i love skz and have some other 4th gen groups i follow but it's hard to enjoy 4th gen kpop as much as 3rd gen. and now it's even 5th gen like... oh how i miss the old days
You can enjoy Treasure, ATEEZ, Stray Kids stages, if we're talking about 4th Generation groups :)
3rd gen was also overly produced. Kpop has Always been a Factory.
It is because you had groups that could sing their own encores.
Look at the big girl groups, Twice is the only one that battle with their own encores and not all of them, you still have Nayeon and Jihyo. Then you have Red Velvet with Wendy and Seulgy, in BlackPink all could do right their designed parts and Gfriend might not have the best taking out Yuju but they could sing live and dance. Then you had Mamamoo.
The boys were around that too, look EXO, BTS, Stray Kids and even others like Ateez could do it.
And if you got back even more they actually singed in their stages while dancing in regular music shows, not only encores.
Now... Even SM artist that can sing do not sing live frequently. That is why you have such... Interesting... Encore. I only liked aespa after their encore of "spicy" because it was the first time I listened them live. NMIXX is not that popular and we know they are not the standard. And from they boys... I have yet to listen one that catch me but againg I have yet to listen one that sings live in their stages.
boynextdoor is 5th gen and I think they are good live!
@@Me-ng3es kpop has always indeed been a factory, but to say it has always been equally overproduced is absolutely incorrect. the current gens can't compare to 1st/2nd gens, so don't even try.
The most frustrating thing is we _know_ that most idols, if given the training, will absolutely put in the work to develop a solid technical foundation for their singing. They're hard workers, incredibly driven, but if no one is teaching them how to do it well, they're not going to magically get there on their own.
I think it is difficult to be good vocal coach. Not every good singers can teach how to sing. Teaching is different skill.
@@anistardiAgreed! Yet clearly there are good coaches in SK since some idols get them and some with means are able to find them outside their company.
It's an indictment of the companies that their in-house coaches so consistently produce idols without a decent technical foundation. Either companies aren't hiring the right people or they aren't giving them sufficient time/resources to train idols. Or both!
@@ako8357 Sadly, not all companies are able to hire in house vocal coach because they are small. If a group success in their debut, they are become very busy, and hard to get train basic skill of vocal technique. When Big Hit still very small company, they hire a vocal coach to train Jungkook, V, and Jin. Unfortunately Jimin did not train. You can still watch a youtube video when the vocal coach tell about it.
@@anistardi I would agree if we were talking about small companies but we're not. Le Serrafim is not from a small company, Stray Kids (Seungmin and IN are common examples of getting outside help) are not from a small company. Saying that idols don't have as much time post-debut is another argument for _proper training_ during their trainee period.
@@ako8357 Le Sserafim from Source Music. I don't know their budget, but I think at least they are medium company. I don't they have vocal coach or not. But Chaewon vocal technique improve a lot from when she in iz*one and now. Yunjin is already good. Kazuha improve a lot recently. Only Sakura and Euncha only improve a lit bit. Sakura still nervous, but some fan tell she was sick. For group that prioritize in performance, have 2 good vocalist is enough. I hope they are improving further. Eunchae is still very young. Sakura will consider as visual.
맞는 말입니다 한국인들도 부끄러워하고있습니다 라이브잘하는 아이돌들도 많은데 특별히 한회사의 아이돌만 라이브논란이 많은 게 사실입니다 전통적인 3대기획사 yg sm jyp는 그런식으로 무분별한 데뷔는 시키지않습니다 유명해져서 유명해지는 마케팅을 쓰고 있는 한 회사만 그런게 저희도 불만입니다 심지어 그들은 이런비판을 겸허히 받아들이지도 않습니다 한국인들도 그회사때문에 케이팝의 위상이 떨어질까봐 걱정하고 꾸준히 비판하고있습니다
Can Korean consumers sue HYBE for selling fraudulent products?
well said Kat!! i watched this video in 2x speed (easier for my brain to process right now), and i completely agree with everything you've said. i think that companies need to stop overly pushing an idols strengths and instead help improve their weaknesses. for example, when aespa first debuted, we all knew their vocals were top notch, however Giselle and Winter were not the best dancers, and then a few comebacks later they are absolutely killing it on the stage! LESSERAFIM can do the same!! HYHE just needs to push Sakura, Kazuha, and Eunchae to work on their vocals more than anything, and over time they'll become an absolute beast of a group (or more of one!)
I agreed, however Hybe needed to this at least 1 year ago because when you got a big stage (for example Coachella) they have to deliver
yep chaewon and yunjin are perfect. if other 3 improve le sserafim will be superb. other 3 members voices are beautiful. so if they get training and improve it will be fire. but i am worried about the coachella
@@Usery5439 i think they'll be fine, coachella peeps will be too drunk to care, plus, any live singing is great practise!!
Sorry. I hope your will react Kiss of Life . They vocal live so good
@@dobbystanskpopfor sure, Coachella had bad bunny, J balvin and they cant sing for their lives
Also many idols who can sing don’t necessarily can sing while dancing which is another skill.
Highly agree with this. and I could give plenty of examples for it from Eurovision which is full of singing live but unfortunately, there are a lot of times when a very good singer is made to have a very energetic, with running and dancing, performance that takes all the breath the singers have and their vocals start to sound bad.
That's why I love NMIXX♥
Me too
Same
I would've stanned them had they have good songs, but sorry to say their songs are crap.
Even knets praise them. Moreover their songs are not boring
@@urhypeboy Only your comment is crap. Please respect other people's taste.
13:20 Thank you Kat for pointing this out. Our Seungminnie really worked so hard on his vocals - and he took private vocal lessons cause he really wanted to be dependable enough on his vocal position in Stray Kids. During NoEasy era, right after Kingdom, he said in the album Intro that "Instead of remaining in despair, I decided on working hard to improve." Yes, Seungmin has a beautiful vocal tone prior to debut but he didn't have the best vocal skills back then, but now, in the recent times he has improved so much, so very much. And even SKZ members appreciate him so much for it. But one of the best outputs of Seungmin's hardwork is that it also encouraged IN and Lee Know to do the same - and now currently they have the same Vocal Coaches of which they regularly attend classes to this day. Han Jisung as well, I'm not sure if it's the same teacher, but i've heard he has been taking vocal lessons as well.💚
I believe every idols has a high chance of improvement, i just hope they won't be limited by hate and criticism they are receiving, and would decide on working on themselves for their good. Fighting!❤️
Ive praise! They really deserve it after EVERYONE doubting if they can even sing well. Which they have proven that they can❤
Just like Yeji. Her vocal during trainee is so bad that she admitted she cried while her vocal teacher scolded her and she works so hard to improve her vocal and now she ace the Tears Cover! ❤❤❤ I can’t seem to find the info or news but you may find through google or UA-cam. ❤
@@mariasol1545 Idk.. it might be depend on their coditions. Might because of their vocal range, song range, vocal exercises... Btw i am momo stan, i realized that momo's vocal is good when she use her low notes but when she gets higher, she tend to scream and its kinda hurt my ears. Thats why she slaying more in japanese comeback compared to korean comebacks. The most important part is their determination in improving, might be they want to focus on dancing but ofc why not improve your vocal too, right? But welp... afterall, it is possible to increase your vocal range since i am also self-learning to sing. sorry for my eng xD
I totally agree! I'm also a singer and when watching the clip of Sakura during Le Sserafim's Easy encore, everyone was flaming her in the comments but I was just thinking "why is this song so low? It's clearly uncomfortable for her to sing, they just need to raise the key." Don't know why the companies managing some of these groups continually gives them songs that are not in a comfortable range for them...
Because singing is not that important. The evidence is smacking you in the face but you keep brushing it off. Idols are popular for their visuals and charisma. Singing is just icing on the cake.
@@SpaceKarenMonkeyKiller I disagree, at the end of the day I spend hours /listening/ to kpop not watching it, so vocals are the most important thing for me when it comes to an idol's skills.
raise the key? you think sakura can sing higher? you think sakura can change a key bcs she famous for blind key/note
@@viclusiv its a misconception that singing higher = harder, for most women (especially sopranos) its easier to raise the key of a song because of where the notes sit in their vocal registers. the song is too low for sakura and you can hear her struggling to support it, but if the key were raised a bit she could most likely get a stronger chest voice placement
The thing is, her stans always have an excuse for her. During IZ*ONE days, they were saying that the pitch was too high and that they needed to let her sing in her original "deep voice." And when they gave that to her, she still manages to butcher it.
And then, a lot of her stans will say that, it's because the Korean language is different from Japanese and that she sounds better singing Japanese songs. Nope. It's still the same result. If you watch her doing karaoke in her old 'Showroom Live', you can see that she still sounds terrible singing Japanese songs.
The only way she sounds decent, is if they edit her voice, post-production. This is why she sounds decent on their supposed "live performance" of 'Swan Song' for VEVO. I literally had high hopes that she _finally_ improved. But, watched their encore and was sorely disappointed.
So, I can only partly agree that they give songs that might not fit their voices. But, even if that's the case, the severity level is obvious with Sakura compared to other members. The only conclusion to this, is that, she's just not made out to be a singer. She simply played her cards right to get to where she is now.
Red Velvet, Exo, NCT, Riize, Shinee, Aespa and basically SM groups are always taking vocal lessons to improve their vocals.
and it shows!! sm vocalists are so insanely talented, they always blow me away with their singing
Super Junior, TVXQ, Fx, SNSD
Yes Being SM stan I don’t have to worry that my idol have singing issues
Nmixx too, they're not in sm although
@@alenamalysh12 totally agree, nmixx too!
it's been a month but what u said about vocal lessons made me think of jongho from ateez, after their first coachella performance he was praised left and right for his vocals, rightfully so because he did amazing, but the very next day he went and took special vocal lessons in la and talked about how he needed to get better. that for me is sheer passion, dedication and commitment to ur craft as a SINGER
Thank you for appreciating IVE, cause even up until now people still trying so hard to discredit all their hardworks and improvement in vocal. There are so many reviews from people who've already seen them live always saying that their mic are ON but people who never even see them irl always calling them a lipsync group just because of that ONE strawberry moon cover (mind you, at that day they perform 6 stages at 2 or 3 events and all of them are LIVE, except for that ONE strawberry moon cover). Recently they sing off the record on radio in LA(?) and it was 100% LIVE, but people still trying so hard to make it like it's not 100% live. people keep saying "it's still has a small backtrack" bla bla bla bla bla. SHUT UP, IT'S LITERALLY 100% LIVE, even yujin's adlibs is live. Heck, even there is a part where yujin kinda late a little bit and there is no backtrack at all, only the music.
Everytime I see a fan try to justify bad vocals because of "choreography" I just send them a link to Mamamoo.
I wish kpop companies would hire you as a vocal coach because you bring more than coaching. I think you have a very good perspective of this industry. Did you ever see the R U NEXT series from HYBE?
I want to watch more shows like that, so recommendations are welcome. I just finished bbmonster :)
i hated r u next 😭 it seemed incredibly rigged 😞 but unfortunately that is the reality of most if not all survival shows
@@Katriinka i honestly don’t know where to begin with this series…lots of good performances, but a reaction will need a bit more structure of what to react to.
But unfortunately encores are the ONLY time we get to see them sing live with no backtrack. If you can’t sing your own song live with back up vocals then that’s an issue. Encores can be fun but they should know how to sing too
I think this is one of the reasons I enjoyed the Babymonster Last Evaluation show, not just because of the girls, but also because of the look into what happens beind the scenes. How the monthly evaluations looks like, how the vocal and dancing lessons look like. From the choice of the song, interpretation, assigning parts, sometimes changing things around. You could see different ways the girls are working on their songs, but also their struggles, working again and again to hit the note right. YG is far from being a perfect company but this is the aspect I liked to see.
Babymonster has not released a single piece of media thats not heavily edited and curated by YG. Stick them on an encore stage they will fail like the rest of them.
same, it was refreshing to see that ! I'm glad YG focused more on vocals with this group
the assigning part when they did "scars to your beautiful" is a really good part
it's showcasing us how the members doing their self assignment with Ahyeon and Rami took part as the leader with their knowledge as a musical student
how each member knows and understands who's doing this and that part, they know who's suited best at certain part with the fact that they're literally a baby
I don't care what their excuses are, the fact that they're receiving soooooooo much money for being mediocre (I don't care how good you are with dancing, you're not just a dancer) is insulting to real talented and hardworking performers.
Just bc they can’t sing doesn’t mean they don’t put in work… ppl choose wether they want amazing vocals or not. They choose what to support, just bc they lack vocal ability doesn’t mean they don’t work
@@chesiresays Why would anybody listen to idols who couldn't perform whose job is to sing and dance?
You get paid according to the revenue generated bro
Facts
Well to be honest they are pretty average dancer as well if we compare them to some of the dance base groups from same generation.
I love Lesserafim, but when not a single one of them sounded good... I'm sorry but if you're a doctor, it's not acceptable to simply not be good at being a doctor. Singing is the their job and what they're trained for. I'm not saying that they have to sing perfectly all the time, of course. Even the greatest of singers make mistakes I'm sure. But Jesus man... This was exactly what Soyeon was saying. You can't just be a pretty face and not know how to sing at all.
And they're not the only ones certainly, so many of those groups are like that.
I don't think it's hateful to say that a singer should know how to sing.
exactly, the fandom is really embarrassing us
The only thing that got me into this issue is when that dude says that idols are just there to sell fantasy.
Idols are artists, though they don't have 100% talents all of them want to be recognized as someone who can inspire everyone through their music.
I talked about "I am" on a Mr removed video on TikTok and praised IVE and oh boy, people came for me because they were out of breath in some places.
I am is an horrifying song and the dance is full of hands up and moving around, that's tiring.
And people were like " they trained for it how can you call this great"
They didn't train to sing a song that high while dancing and they are tired of promotion plus the stress to the fact that if they mess up they will be fried , and I'm not Ive's fan, I love that song I sing in my car after work to keep me awake ( with RBB from red velvet) that song is HARD
TIkTok is like the source of IVE hate train, a lot of evil edited videos come from tiktok.
you're SO REAL for this
I mean, frikking BTOB Eunkwang is still taking vocal lesson occasionally.
There is no excuse for not taking vocal lesson if you need it.
Yes BTOB Eunkwang and EXO Baekhyun still taking vocal lesson when we already know how powerful their voice
The fact that "idols should be able to sing" is a controversial statement just shows how crazy some stans are.
IVE deserves so much praise for their improvement. It's no secret that these girls are being held to insane standards due them not being from the big 4, but I'm so glad that the "IVE lipsyncs/can't sing" narrative is being let go of now that more and more people are attending their tour. It especially makes me so emotional to see Leeseo getting praise and love from non-fans after the amount of hate the poor girl has received. I'm sure she'll become an amazing artist with the speed that she's improving
In my opinion if you are a professional singer with fans and fame you should be able to sing. You are making a living and career from singing the least one can do is sing. These days the industry is taking pretty faces and style over talent. I expect singing and fun in a encore, not scared faces and anxiety to sing well. The companies need to debut people who have passed the test of singing well live, in recording, and while dancing. Not only in just dancing and performing.
im glad that you added examples of idols who struggled with this problem and then got better overtime!! although this is an important issue to bring up, i feel like a lot of fans only focus on the negative aspects of these newer generations of kpop while completely ignoring newer groups who are super talented and do very well singing live. i may be biased because theyre one of my ults but for example zerobaseone has amazing singers, one member i would even argue is one of the best in the industry. its important to note the negatives AND the positives. honestly i just think its just a problem of immature kpop stans being obsessed with hating and creating fanwars instead of actually enjoying good music lol
Zb1 are too underrated for their vocals tbh 😭 having hao and taerae in your group alone makes them strong but the other members are solid too especially hanbin and gunwook, the others make good lead/subvocals who understand at least the basics of singings, it’s rare for such a big group 🥺
i think it's more about the whole idol culture. they've just never been demanded to be good singers by the crowd or anyone. and as it got global it was something that came up with time.
I get kinda tired of all people getting mixed up between LABELS and an AGENCY
HYBE IS A LABELS, meanwhile PLEDIS Entertaintment, ADOR, Big Hit, Source Music, Be:Lift (sorry if i get their names wrong pls correct me) they are an agency that is cooperate together and resulting HYBE LABELS
So please do not day, “Its all HYBE Artist”, NO its not, bcs if you put it like that you degrade other idols that have a good vocal even tho they are under HYBE
Just say “why Source Music debuting with this kind of vocal qualitiy band even tho before le sserafim they debuted Gfriend” (just for example)
Yup the fact that Source Music debuted Gfriend and also Le sserafim is wild compare their vocal its so wild.
some agencies should just stop choosing idol who can't sing.. i prefer who cant dance but sings good coz dancing lessons would be easy for them to learn than those who don't sing but can dance.. if they want them to be part of the group, they better just dance and be the background vocal coz i don't want to hear them sing for real.. sounds force
Remember when the Gen 2 had to deal with Music Bank's Bad sounds system and it's not only LIVE, It's national direct broadcast !!! So if u messed up the whole world saw it 😂😂😂 and some Group has to let the main vocal over 75% of the lines so they can't messed up live vocal ....some other members even just have a SINGLE GASP not even the entire WORD for the WHOLE F*CKING SONG 😂😂😂
You have to see kard specially the girls even when they have difficult choreographies and have to match the boys because they re a co ed group but the girls never cease to amaze me specially sominnn
Outside SM searching for good vocals is like a wild hunt😂
THANK YOU! Singers should SING! If they cant sing theyshould be doing something else.
Loved this video. Even if you didn't come up with that distinction between "bullying" and "constructive criticism", you discussed it so well and made excellent points about vocal performance standards, supporting idols with coaching and song choice, and the problematic effects of ubiquitous post-production. Great video and shows why you are such a fantastic vocal coach!
I love how honest you are in your reviews thank you 🙏❤️
SM be like:😊😊😊
‘Standards are all over the place’ yes exactly the problem!
Thank you so much for this video 🙏
19:38 This!! 💯 People are too used to hearing prerecorded "live" vocals nowadays.
A lot of people, especially in reference to HYBE idols, are using the company as an excuse. Please remember, even if the company wasn’t providing them proper vocal lessons, realistically, it’s not like the company has some policy that stops them from searching for outside classes or idk maybe going on youtube and learning themselves 😭. What sense would that make if the company was stopping them from improving especially since they work these idols like dogs to achieve perfection? It may not be the company’s main focus to provide them with vocal lessons for whatever reason but why would they prohibit their idols getting outside training if that meant improving? every idol under that company except maybe i’llit bc they just debuted, has the money and connections to just go to a damn vocal lesson class 😭.
a tough pill to swallow is that some of these idols simply do not care that much. What were they doing in their trainee years to get the company to debut them? backflips on a tight rope? They probably took lots of vocal lessons back then because the pressure to debut was immense but now that “they’ve made it”, things like vocal lessons have probably been put to the back burner for some of them 🤷🏾♀️
Such a good video on this issue!
Thank you for your video ! Your comment about how if dancing could be autotuned, we would only have groups with pretty faces, is quite true ! Maybe that's why AI slowly make its way in kpop... When you talked about vocal skills growth, I also thought about Shuhua, because even though she's not a great singer, she took vocal lessons again during the hiatus, she improved her stage presence and dance skills, and she just starts to find her vocal color, with Soyeon's unconditionnal help and trust in her potential. So even if an idol is criticized for being a not-so-good singer (just like shuhua was called in the past), it can improve even after their debute. Don't be harsh against kids that are still learning and still willing to learn.
No excuse idols need to SING. they are releasing vocal song,if they can't sing and just use autotuning then thats scamming people...they don't need to be the greatest singer but atleast lived up to the vocals of the songs you releases,cause that is your OWN SONG, and that supposedly is your OWN VOICE. The problem here is kpop agency become so greedy in debuting idols to make money. And instead of investing on training and vocal coaching they opted for cheaper options; autotune and then lipsync. Funny how hybe is very much proud that technology that can fix everything their idols are lacking. That greedy man even boasted about the technology that can make their kpop idol sing in perfect english😂 what a mess..kpop become bunch of lipsync-ers dance group..
Wow, all your points were great and relevant, I share the same thoughts on almost everything. It is so true that producers need to start writing songs with their singers in mind, or if the company is purchasing from outside, buying songs that suit their singers' strengths. Making sacrifices is only okay to an extent, if the song is too high or too low for the group's average range, it's just doing them a disservice.
And yes I totally agree with your example here 13:17 Seungmin is one of the best public examples recently of an idol taking charge and going out of their own way to work on themselves and improve. I'm so glad you brought up his background, I feel like because its been so long, some people forget he was originally only a lead vocalist (and he shared that position with two other members at the time as well!) but we can see how his passion and diligence has taken him far in terms of improvement, even inspiring some of his other members like I.N and Lee Know to join him at the same vocal academy. You are definitely right that this would be the first thing fans would tell you about him because yes I respect him (and his members who joined him later) for going out his way to do this when he could just ride on the coattails of the group's fame since they are so huge and fans that would defend everything they do. He clearly is passionate about singing and that makes me want to support him all the more.
This analysis is on point and as a person who sang professionally and in choirs I absolutely agree!
This are some hot issues. Glad we can hear some ideas from professionals. Well said.
In my opinion the kindest and most understanding fandom out there is the MOOMOO's. They have always supported MAMAMOO no matter what and they show their kindness and support in so many ways. They will not tolerate any hate comments in their fandom and they will give you a lot of SH*t if you dare insult thier idols unnecessarily. I love that bunch. They stick together and support their idols.
If you don't have power vocal, being stable is the key. 2NE1 Dara is a good example. 😊
Actually encore stages were never a problem ... i mean any SM group's encore stage is sinple proof they CAN sing without their ear pieces , while having fun and gooving around !
Suddenly encore stages are just "for fun" and we shouldn't be criticizing them for having FUN because their favs just proved they CANNOT sing !!!
I want to tattoo this video on my forehead omg. I agree with everything you said and I thank you for this very needed video
thankuu! I appreciate it!!
These idols have to go through years of training before they debut so if they can’t sing then they should not debut yet.
Chenle, Haechan, Jisung (from what I know) had vocal lesson everytime they got break and rest. Company only provide vocal lesson during trainee time. So, after debut the idol usually take their own initiative for additional lesson. Be it dance lesson or vocal lesson.
Thank you for this...and also for mentioning Seungmin, he has become a massive force with his voice skills besides all the other things they do.
But as a casual listener of other groups, is well known that Baekhyun, Seungmin, IN, Lee Know, and so many others have invested in their vocal education, despite not being provided (enough to satisfy the idol needs) from their companies...
Dance or rap classes/coaching are the same (Hyunjin took contemporary dance classes after debuting)...and, at this point, some idols understand that their lack of skills at one of the main kpop structures will affect their overall performance and the group itself, not only at those music show encores, but their concerts, fan meetings, even on streaming content (like covers or unplugged versions of their own songs that sometimes are meant to be live) ...in my opinion, if your company didn't provide enough lessons during training period or even after debut and the idol feels/knows/understands/integrates that may lack of something (even when the standards are pretty high nowadays) they should be able to invest in themselves and take a step forward to, at least, keep the pace of the group, because they are supposed to be chosen for debut on a basis of various things, right? Average vocals, dance, rap, visuals for performance...and not just only blame the company on that, if that wasn't the case, all of the prior examples I gave, wouldn't even take those vocal lessons...
In my opinion, it seems that they are more concerned with having a synchronized dance with more than 10 hours of training than vocal training.
I honestly feel bad for Enhypen. They're usually forced to sing so high. Too high. They struggle live a lot.
The video the industry needed.
oh my god! Thank you! I've always thought these things and to hear that from a professionist, a FANTASTIC vocal coach I'd say, it moves me! a truly massive thank you for speaking the truth! I don't really understand how people can be so mean towards ,as you called them, "kids"(because yes they are kids that unfortunately are forced to grow too fast) and it upset me so much that there are the so called fans that demand idols to be perfect, like perfect face, singing, dancing...they're no machine, they're human beings with flows, with emotions, with their own personality...like how we got to the point that an idol is AFRAID to sing live and criticize who has the courage to do that??? To me is absolutely insane. And the saddest part of this is that companies will always take the part of the "costumer" and not the idol (except for a few exceptions). Again to hear these things from a professionist that I admire for me is everything so thank you.
Truth is a hard pill to swallow. I've been saying it with Western music and now the industry is a face sells versus vocals. The respect for musicianship is gone and auto-tune has replaced the work a body should at least aim to do. In everyday life a person with no qualifications can't just walk in with no skills and do your job in a skilled profession.... Why would you want that in an artist. You might a well invest in yourself, cut your own album and turn a profit. A vocal coach is your friend. Preserve your throat, vowels and consonants will be your new best friend. Can you sing in/on Key... are your ears listening. These are the basics. Everyone should want their artist to be the best they can be with the voice they have. No one is saying you must sound like another artist but you should at least be breathing correctly. *One thing I noticed about EXO D.O. is that over time he stopped belting often... I don't know if it was a personal choice or someone pulled him to the side and said don't sing above this octave, preserve your throat. If belting is needed, he can, but he's coasting easy in his range. Great reaction and I hope more fans encourage their favorite to invest in themselves, not auto-tune.
if your doing encore and your just standing even if the song does not need high notes and you make mistake with your own song then your not prepared enough , they should take it as a lesson and improved what is missed in the next encore
You should really check out the live version of Close Your Eyes by Isaac Hong. It has me so emotional! I think it’s from a show, but I’ve never seen it, just came across the song by chance and I am blown away by his vocals.
As someone who was an active stan in Gen 3 and vibed with Gen 2 songs, Kpop has become very disappointing.
Not just the singers,the music as well.
The big 3 company are the only one who really nurture talents ngl they heavily invest on their trainess🔥💯
Yess!!!! TELL EVERYONE GURLLL! 🔥🔥
Thx mom to bringing this topic 😢❤
Yell it for the people at back sis😂 I get real frustrated when people saying their idols don't need to be a good singer or at least sing live. My idols trained years to improve their skills and break their backs, making songs only for their ults who can't sing to win awards and get the most numbers of albums sold. Albums that end up in the trash or sold for dirt cheap after just so the groups can get their numbers up. 😢
Hey Ms Kat! Great video! I luuuuuuuuve it when you do things like this, as your insight is amazing. Thank you for all that you do for all of us! Hope that you are doing well! ~Be Blessed
You are brilliant and very fair 🙌🏽
loved this!
I'd like to see a reaction to the (live) vocals of the boy group A.C.E. I saw them in concert a few years ago and they had a backtrack but you could definitely hear their voices the whole time they were dancing too. They used to practice singing while jogging so their stamina is pretty high.
True… although we don’t know what training they have but there’s an option to start or continue learning. Eunkwang is one of the idols that think of when it comes to live singing but after 12 years he’s still doing vocal lessons. He loves singing but even he says it himself when he does these lessons it’s hard and at times not fun but he still does it cuz he feels that he needs to do it for continually improve
Thank you forthis video, I totally agree with you!
agree. Finally someone spealing out my mind TT I just hope every artist can be rescepted no matter u like them or not. And this industry can be less toxic....then everything wull be just fine the way is was TT
I know it's messed up to think this way, but the word Idol basically entails an all rounder artist imo. They can sing, rap, act, dance, entertain and also have attractive visuals. That is the concept of IDOL, that's why they train, that's what their career is all about. And yes, to meet all those standrads is insane, but that's the industry they are in. And it just doesn't make any sense to debut pretty people and make them sing and perform if they don't know how, like how else were they picked over all the other thousands of talented trainees?
!! As a kpop stan for years, unfortunately visuals have always won over a good voice/ talent.
In kpop star hunt a lot of good trainees were eliminated just to let a girl who lacked in everything get constantly praised because,,, she was pretty and looked like snsd’s yoona.
Like…. You cannot sing with your face but unfortunately lots of people stan idols just for visuals
5:18 I don’t know. I’ve heard a bunch of people try to use technical language as a mask when they bully. It’s really common on the internet.
Amazing video!!
i'll thanks cause you did what vocal coach thing cause i see few vocal coach reaction just say "wow" thing
Yunjin sounded bad in easy encore because she’s not a low range singer. If you look at the unforgiven encores, she NAILED her high notes. That’s because she’s meant to sing in higher ranges. She clearly struggles with low range notes. That doesn’t make her a bad singer, she’s just singing out of her range.
This video reminds me of how much I miss seeing MAMAMOO on your channel.. 🥺
now I understand the tweet earlier lol
I don't think you need protection cause you decided to speak facts 😂
Mostly really just doesn't want this to be the new norm when groups less popular delivers more. top groups should definitely check off most of what an idol is.
like you mention, if you know you're lacking, there a ton of thing you can do yourself to improve on your own.
really like your opinion dude
@@nmixxchangeit seems like our favs our safe. This is why everyone else should hone their crafts cause as Kat said, you can always improve and you owe it to your fans to give a great performance every way you can
This is why i’m an SM stan 💖