Brutally Ranking Kpop Companies By The Vocal Training And Treatment Of Their Vocalists
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- Опубліковано 6 чер 2024
- Who does it right? (if anyone...)
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 The low vocal standard of kpop... who's to blame?
0:26 About the video
1:13 4
5:05 3
9:37 2
12:05 1
15:39 Outro
blackpink, jennie, lisa, rosé, jisoo, le sserafim, newjeans, enhypen, kpop encore stages, ain't no other fan kpop, kpop vocal analysis, twice, red velvet, seulgi, wendy, stray kids, itzy, nmixx, exo, kyungsoo, chen, baekhyun, aespa, vocal stability, vocal range, nct 127, treasure, sakura, kazuha, eunchae, taeil, doyoung, ningning, good vs bad vocal runs, good vs bad belts, vocal technique, yeji, jihyo, sana - Фільми й анімація
the way you pointed out that seventeen's vocal line is only one carrying hybe. thats because they DID NOT debut under hybe, they got acquired 5 years after their debut.
aren't any group that debut under hybe have their own company/management though?
Same with fromis 9
Seventeen's vocals are carried by Seungkwan and DK though (Woozi and Hoshi is fine I would say). Jeonghan and Joshua are in the Vocal Unit yet they are still weak vocalists.
tbh seventeen is the only one who can save Hybe's face in this vocal conversation. and they were NOT even trained by hybe 😂 lol like what the fuck are you doing? even newjeans who people say they have good vocal is soso thats why they're barely given a song with dynamics that challenge their ability.
even yunjin, who's the best female vocal originally debuted under them was a former SM trainee before joining Pledis. they seems not to care much about vocal ability atp, since mixing and autotuning is really easy.
Hybe: "If you look great, we're gonna make you dance great too. Forget everything else."
JYP: "We're gonna make a show and pick the ones with better vocal potential. But here's the catch: they will stay at that level forever, lol."
YG: "It seems you can sing well. Have you ever thought of singing with more twang, a bit more nasal, and cutting off the syllables? Producer thinks it would be great if you did!"
SM: "We spent 10 years casting the best singers. Now we'll spend 20 more years honing their skills. This group debuts in 2043, stay tuned!"
GASPED dang this is so accurate lmaooo
the accuracy!
Sm part 👍🤣
YG summary was hilarious
not SM's🤣🤣🤣🤣
The fact that the mayorities ex SM trainees are main vocalist in others groups... Speaks a lot.
yes Chaehyun- Kep1er, Belle- Kiss of Life, etc. SM doesn't play with their vocals 😊
@@yolandamgulwa4869 yes! Chaehyun's singing technique is so SM-coded, especially when she sang Exo's song in Queendom 2. I didn't know she trained at SM then, but when I heard her sing, it reminded me of Taeyeon and Wendy.
@@ayessafischer7127 Yes she trained with the aespa members. 😊
yunjin of le sserafim is also an ex sm trainee
Wasn’t the main vocalist of Pentagon also an ex SM trainee? Or one of the main vocals, at least. I noticed him only when the group did a cover of aespa’s Savage (I don’t listen to bgs much). That guy can really belt. Very impressive.
The fact that Kai (Exo) and Taemin (Shinee) both started barely able to sing at all and now both have pleasant, sweet voices is just proof that SM vocal trainers are second to none. (That is not an insult to either Kai and Taemin, who I love! They are extremely talented dancers who obviously worked really hard to get to where they are and now are almost as nice to listen to as well as to look at.)
Kai?
i agree. sm knows how to train their artist. that's why even their rappers are decent vocalists.
@@juliiouus96 give a couple of songs from his Peaches album a listen
@@juliiouus96 kai has a really good voice and is a good vocalist, he just not the main vocal, but still a good singer as expected from sm and exo
@@lauragiovanna2810 A good vocalist?
Another proof showing the risks associated with JYPe's techniques is the fact that Seugmin, Jeongin, and Lee Know from Stray Kids stopped taking lessons from the company and had to pay for another vocal coach, about a year ago for Lee know. And this was done to get rid of their habits and learn to sing in a manner that's good for them. I know Seungmin mentioned this during a live stream. And personally, I notice a difference in their singing just between Maxident (case143) and 5star (S-class) : I feel like they are more confident, project better, have more support,...etc
I feel like the other members should join 2MinIn but with how busy they are it's almost impossible. The only reason the members seemed to have time to rest was was when three of them got in a car accident
yes, and seungmin even takes lessons from baekhyun's vocal coach if i remember correctly 😅
I felt a lot of improment too.
The coach is baekhyun's coach! And we can really see the improvements.
yeah Seung-min said he hang out with Baekhyne. Do you remember the time he cover love again? such a good cover.
I don't like SM Entertainment as a company but their artists are the best when it comes to singing they can sing acapella and definitely live they are amazing dancers and amazing rappers I like that rapping because it's not always about fast rapping they rap where you can understand them and it flows so good every generation of SM Entertainment we're vocal kings and queens facts
sm really does care about the music quality, they were always pioneers on putting out experimental, good music and have always gave amazing training to their idols. unfortunately they dont seem to care about the actual artists as people.
That melodic rap is why I like SM rappers more.
SM sometimes doing whatever shit in terms of music for their groups and suck at marketing and promo. That's just sad... They have the best singers for sure and some of the best dancers as well.
Good music quality, terrible business practices.
The thing is SEVENTEEN and fromis_9 have amazing vocal lines and they didn't originally come from HYBE.
Gfriend Yuju is also great
@@johnlloydquitain8116 oh yeah i forgot to mention gfriend vocal line especially yuju is pretty good
Nuest (disbanded Pledis boy group) was also good. Nuest, Gfriend, and seventeen were all hybe (acquired) groups with good vocalists.
@@wineandcheese and fromis_9 since you chose to leave them out
Yes it's evident that Hybe doesn't care about vocals AT.ALL cause all the groups that didn't train with them have decent or great vocals while the groups that trained with them, have bad vocals
To be fair, SM did create the whole training system that the industry adopted so they had a head start. 😂 But it is quite evident that SM prioritizes vocals as it’s been consistent with all their artists throughout the generations.
Edit: I’m not a company stan and I know lsm didn’t actually create it, he was heavily influenced with what he saw in the us. I’m just saying the rest of kpop copied them but catered it to their own style. Which is why each company has a distinct identity or type of idol.
even ex sm trainees are always main vocals in their groups SM idols are just elite idols the talent is insane
And they did good prioritizing it , SM maybe a shady company but haters have no right saying that SM just prioritize visuals ... SM is just good at scouting ...
@@ahgacababeumetiny-Lshawol Literally SM scouts people based on the feel of them and predict their potential for stardom. They firmly believe that if you are not attractive that's okay, you can get plastic surgery, workout, makeup, costumes etc. Even if you don't have talent, they believe talent can be taught as long as you have the determination to better yourself. For example, Taeyong literally could not dance at all and now he's the center of their largest member boygroup. Taemin and Kai went from barely getting lines to training hard enough to where they can have successful debuts all on their own. I feel like it's pretty admirable.
I've noticed a trend whenever a SM group debuts, they will almost get thoroughly hated within an inch of their life. I remember when NCT debuted and people bagged on their vocals, Aespa for lipsyncing, even Exo and SNSD was hated at debut. But they always prove people wrong because they do what no other company does. They are patient and give their idols room to grow and train. They don't rush what they cant do.
Yep agree, so now they just need to improve in promoting their artists more. Lol.
SM got the training system from japan, and the style from america. kpop is just a mix of many things. nothing they do is original. lee soo man admitted this himself.
If you think again, this is why SM and YG never have any problem with their encore
Still remember SHINee's encore while doing push up...
Exactly
The case of HYBE annoys me so much it's unreal. They have more than enough resources to provide good vocal coaches, but no instead they let their artists regress, struggle and ultimately get dragged to hell and back by the entire internet. I'm also sick of their company stans using the royal "they focus on dancing and rapping!" excuse (also with rapping only BTS excels at that department while the rest are tragic). At the end of the day they still have vocal positions and they need to be thought how to sing without damaging their voices in the longrun
This. The only HYBE groups that got the best rapping skills so far to me always BTS and Seventeen.
So true lmao, I dont get why fans would rather tolerate this than help voice the concerns to help their idols excel and be better, they always think that voicing concerns is an equivalent of hating the idols smh. The only ones who have promising vocals or atleast decent ones are the groups that arent exactly from hybe but hybe brought their past company so they're now in hybe 🧍♂️
And yet people call them all rounders😭
Like hybe is full of all rounders😂
@@takethingswithagrainofsalt The only people who call them all-rounders are delusional company stans. All-rounder doesn't mean that you have to be a vocal powerhouse, you just have to at least be decent in vocal (alongside rap, dance, stage presence and composing) department, but lots of them are not even that. The prioritization of dancing and stage presence doesn't cut it anymore, because not every song demands a tough choreography. They still release ballads or usual songs without choreography and they have to either deliver a subpar singing or resort to lip syncing, which is a whole other can of worms. If they keep continue using their bad technique than their voices will basically deteriorate in the near future. Alicia Keys is a good example of what bad technique and singing out of your range can do to you.
@@absolutelynotellengirl Hybe didn't even train Seventeen, Pledis was an independent company for the majority of Seventeen's career😭 By the time Hybe bought Pledis, Seventeen were already veterans in the industry
Another thing about SM is that they develop even the less vocally talented Idols/Trainees. For example, TEN, started out as a Main Dancer and Rapper but is now Main Vocalist of WayV. Kai, Joy, Jisung and many more can confidently carry their lines successfully.
Kai,ten still weak vocalist
@@jazmine9429in their group yh but they legit would excel over anyone outside
@@jazmine9429Bashing Kai now has become so outdated, r u listening to his debut days voice only or u become selectively deaf in Kai parts in exo songs. He have three albums where he excels tremendously vocally unless u have selective hearing.
@@sabiaakthar1613 i dont think he still can't support.
He has no content where he can actually sing a full song by himself All his solo performances are clearly lipsync.
@@minzy8 in exo he sings for less than 10 seconds, as a soloist there is no video where he really shows that he can carry a whole song by himself (i'm talking about he only focus on singing) yeah, 3 albums with no live singing content
SM also seems to be the only company that cares about the longevity of their idol’s voices. Maybe because they intentionally keep groups active way past 7 years. Their songs typically always play to the idol’s strengths and they’re rarely singing way out of their range or doing risky things without technique. When they do incorporate difficult vocal moments, they’re given to the main vocalists who’re able to handle them healthily.
YG I think do this unintentionally simply because their idols aren’t being given difficult vocal parts to begin with so it protects their voices. JYP and Hybe clearly could not care less, I can name numerous vocalists they have caused to regress by abusing their voice without training them first. Listening to some of their groups can be painful sometimes.
with SM I think they care about longevity because as a business, they know there's a lot of money to be made from their groups' fanbases. Some companies go all out on a group and then discard them for a newer one after their contract ends; so longevity isn't priority. On top of that, I think they know it's their department and would want to keep it at that quality. People can always come for SM and say their favs have better dancing, rap, or more streams, but they know avid listeners of kpop would always come back to them for the pretty faces that can sing.
@@Rhaphidophile pretty face can sing...lol...
yup...agree
That's why SM songs, be it from 1st gen, 2nd gen, 3rd gen or 4th gen, age in the best ways, no matter the song at the time was basic or experimental.
@@Rhaphidophileyeah, they know they’re gonna continue the group well into 15 years (using slave contracts to tie them to the company indefinitely but that’s a different can of worms) so its important that they can actually still sing that far in the future. Some companies have this use and abuse policy where they don’t care about the idol’s health they’ll just wring them dry for 7 years then leave them in the dust.
But the culture is changing. A lot of the big non-SM groups who’ve been damaging their vocals over their career are continuing past 7 years (BTS and Twice are notable examples) because the increased fan base is keeping them profitable. But the damage is already done for the old groups and the companies haven’t quite caught up yet to realise they might want to preserve the abilities of their newer groups as well. And why bother if the fans praise it instead of speaking up in concern, producers certainly don’t care about destroying someone’s voice in the long term if it makes them money, especially if the alternative is investing in proper training.
So really it’s a mix of: most fans don’t care, training costs money, this industry is very short term. SM have made it their unique selling point and that’s why they’re so far ahead.
But, they are bad at marketing and promoting idols.
They are good at anting and mistreating idols. 😊
Seventeen isn't Hybe-bred; hence, having good vocalists. So, doesn't really count for Hybe 😅
Hybe consists of different labels. Those labels individually train their artists. Hybe is not like the other big 3 that have a set of trainers to train everyone so I wonder what you mean by "Hybe-bred"
@@aneopurpleblink77seventeen was trained and debuted before hybe acquiring pledis...
If it's smth good, it's all hybe credit,, and when criticism comes 'awh there are different labels under hybe it's not hybe's fault'
@@BlueloveParrot my point is, all labels under Hybe have different trainers. Both the original labels and the newly acquired ones. Every label is different and that's why the newly acquired ones also came with their own system. Every company would want to acquire profitable businesses. The members Seventeen are now employees of Hybe so why do you want them to be excluded when Hybe's vocalists are mentioned?
My angels, honestly ❤
Seventeen are the best vocalist of hybe for sure!!!!!The vocal unit is so talented ,Dk and seungkwan are insane! And all the members including the rappers can sing!!!
The biggest problem with hybe is the training they give their vocalist. Instead of improving, the keep pushing their idols to the point where they get regressed. Just the opposite, sm never forces their idols to opt for wrong vocal practices. They make them do best according to their capabilities and support range. In case of JYP, they have incrediblely stable idols. The vocal stability with difficult choreos and the fact that they 'actually' sing 'live'.
SM learned after Taeyeon lost her voice during Twinkle
Agree with this. As far as I’ve heard, none of Aespa sings using head voice, this is likely because they just haven’t developed it yet. However, the songs they’re given never really leave chest register, and if there’s a high note it’s belted. You can manipulate songs to suit a voice type and level, it’s a very hard and honestly bad practice to PUSH a voice to suit a song.
Also still holding out on them using head voice more, I had hoped for D.O but he seems content in staying in chest and leaving high notes for the other 2/3s of the EXO vocal line.
@@AntonyNboth winter and ningning have showcased their head voices before, ningnings is pretty decent
@@Rhaphidophilewait when was this? I’ve heard number of times of Tiffany with nodules but never heard anything from Taeyeon. I wouldn’t be surprise with the highs she had to do in that song
@@cnlovelight_blue She didn't rlly lose her voice, but she was the most overworked she's ever been in her whole career, so, she was tired af and was sick often, she actually made time for herself to improve her technique after that
Imagine signing a trainee contract that could put you in debt and your company doesn’t give the right materials/guidance to develop as vocalist. Like that has to be a massive ripoff.
Big 3 company's don't have debt
@@Gothxxy hybe is not big3
@@stxntwice so hybe idols have debt??
@@averyatwell95 idk lmaoo i’m not a trainee there
@@stxntwice oh you said it like big 3 idols don't have debt but hybe idols do.
SM does appear to have some talented vocal trainers. I'll point to the case of Taemin of Shinee, who debuted with absolutely no vocal ability but through hard work and help from the trainers, has become a solid vocalist.
SM has some of the most experienced vetrens in the industry under their roof. It's no suprise their vocal & skill level is well above average. I used to be a YG stan but have since given up on them.
YG at present is a shell of it's former self. So much wasted, forgotten, abused potential it reads like a greek tragedy. May as well call It YG Ghost town at this point. 🙄😔
I also noticed a huge diff between studio and live stages for hybe .most times there live singing sound nothing like there actual audio released .this shows how heavily edited there vocals r but if u listen to sm audio vs live u legit hear same thing .i believe sm was smart not relying on edited voices and keeping the original cos the voice u hear in audio vs live is legit the same
Newjeans shade
@@franksocean it’s not Newjeans shade, it’s toward most groups that debuted under hybe.
@@crystalvulpix20 So newjeans shade
@@franksocean wtf?
same. i noticed the same thing with le sserafim. their fans were praising their live vocals but i was like...ummm its not that good at at all. its actually kinda bad. to be fair, their dances are hard. i still think they're talented though.
SM clearly cares about vocal improvement compared to other companies as well. Ten and jisung from NCT are good examples i believe, as they began as relatively weak vocalists but have improved tremendously, ten even being the second main vocal of wayv now.They clearly allow their artists comfort in their styles too, since many groups do recording videos and it really shows their confidence (nct dream and 127 recording videos are fucking insane)
Yeah most of sm groups weakest vocalists have improved to the point of comfortably singing live and sounding pleasant, which can't be said for some other idol veterans unfortunately
@@anny8720yes omg. Weak vocalists like Kai, Siwon, U-Know (he wasn't the main vocal but had to step up), Taemin, Minho, Ten, Taeyong, Yixing, Tao, Yeri, Victoria, Johnny and even Sehun, that couldn't sing for shit (ehem- who's been my bias for 10 years to be clear, I love him but I have to admit that lol) have improved tremendously through the years. (Edited bc of spelling mistakes)
Let me also add Irene from Red Velvet, she got alot better rn at handling highnotes better
Something I've always appreciated from SM is they have a strong focus on making all their idols go through vocal training no matter their position, every SM group is able to do sing in harmony which you can't say for other companies. The improvements over time in all of their groups vocally is also incredible when you compare to other companies too.
agree, even their rapers can sing
Yeah I think you can really notice this with NCT. Most of their rappers are able to sing without having any struggles.
Exactly
One of my favourite videos that showcases this is of NCT backstage and they were like ‘let’s practice our harmonies’ and then went okay ‘you sing this note, you this note,’ but as they went on it became ‘you sing the square root of 45, you sing ‘a-6 to the power of 10 trillion’ or whatever, just making up random shit, and then without conferring anymore just all started singing in perfect harmony lol
I haven't got a distinct style of HYBE when it comes to vocals. I still can judge which trainee/artists who came from or once trained in SM ( clear and pretty type of voice ), YG ( sassy voice type ), and JYP ( half vocal, half air ), but i still can't manage to figure out when it came to HYBE.
Also, please don't judge me for those specific descriptions lmao
Throat tension, just so much throat tension
I know nothing of musical terms but I actually like your description. It fits 😁.
It's because HYBE is just the umbrella of all the companies. A group from Bighit doesn't really have the same vibe as a group from Pledis nor KOZ for example. I feel like people still don't get how corporations work. HYBE in itself isn't a company like YG, JYP, etc. JYP may for example have some sort of divisions or whatever that manage their groups but at the end of the day the groups are still under JYP and JYP only. However, in HYBE case, a group can be under HYBE but not under Bighit nor Ador but rather Belift. That's why it's difficult to give HYBE artists/trainees distinct traits. Each company is independent and has its own ways of managing, training etc.
Judging by their newer groups, they like the Justin Bieber kinda soft autotuny style. Heesung is what I imagine they strive the average HYBE trainee to sound like. But I think they try to train their vocals to the point where they will blend in and sound like each other, like synchronized.
Probably because HYBE is an umbrella label for a lot of companies like Source Music, Bighit, Pledis, KOZ etc who all have different training systems and vocal coaches. Its like saying Mystic Story(Billie's label) has different style when compared to SM vocalists. (SM is the largest shareholder of Mystic Story but they are managed differently).
The back story of Taeyong (NCT) is all you need to know to fully understand how competent SM is in terms of training. They literally took a boy that had ZERO knowledge of anything music related and ZERO talent (singing AND dancing) only to make him one of the top 10 idol in today’s industry. Top 5 if we’re talking dancing, and unbelievable stable in both raping and singing on stage. And the guy is also insanely good looking. So I don’t want to hear anyone saying SM is a visual company cause you WISH it was, then maybe they wouldn’t make your favourites look so bad.
Lmao I giggled so hard, preach louder for people at the back
Yuuuuuuup it’s crazy cuz SM rly is full of visuals but they have the skills to back it up too 😭
Lowkey I would even say a lot of 4th Gen groups/idols look up to him.
Whaaaat. Where can I read more about Taeyong’s story?
girl........
Finally, someone speaks about this issue!!! I'm always a vocal stan, it started with Exo,then started checking many groups....eventually I realized all the groups that I like are from SM. SM vocalists and music always slay..can't get away from them.
For sure! I always think, why are my favorite groups from SM? For me, I feel like SM artists are one of the only companies that have really really good quality albums. Like with amazing instrumentals, and insane adlibs. There's so much going on and so much passion that are put into these albums. Whereas I feel like with other groups, I would love a couple things on an album and desert the rest. The way SM goes about groups is so different from other companies. They're not looking for immediate fame, they're looking to make their groups have longevity and uniqueness.
Same! I still listen to other groups’ music and enjoy as much but when it comes to favorites I always say sm groups. They’re a shitty company especially when promoting and protecting their artists but I can’t deny how amazing their training is. I’ve heard multiple groups from sm live and I kid you not they sound exactly the same as the audios. No wonder they’re always accused of lip syncing. And the HARMONIZATION, the details when you hear the background vocals are insane.
Agreed! Please don't hate me on stanning on EXO and BlackPink because I loooove EXO's vocals and BlackPink's live performances as well. BlackPink may not be better than SM Artists, but they have special stage presence, YG is smart for that. And this is also the reason why I love most of SM's artists and YG's. They just value real performance and talent.
We have same taste and what is the funny thing is I only found peoples like you on internet only who really admire talent rather popularity I haven’t found single person who stan sm artists in my whole country
SHINee's vocals are insane
Sm thinks about longevity.they dont just put anyone into a group .they think bout everything from beginning like is there a potential tht they could release a solo in future type.all members have to have vocals even if they r a rapper .Also i think sm spends alot of time in traineees as well as coming up with group combos where groups can sing and harmonise well together
Yeah agree, it's proven in SM survival show for NCT new Japanese unit "NCT Universe: LASTART" that SM spends a lot of time to think throughly in every aspects to create a new group (from vocal, performance, chemistry between members, etc).
SM may be a shitty company if we look at their artist management, contract, marketing and mistreatment. but in terms with training and creating a new group? They're the best, and their most recent prove that is most apparent is Riize and NCT New Team that's created through the survival show that I mentioned earlier. Those groups is so well balanced in terms of everything.
It gets even more glaring when we see 4th Gen groups; they don’t harmonize between members, they’re cutting song bridges, any interesting vocal color is demoted to adlibs with no room for development…. like I don’t see most of the top 4th Gen groups having a career in music 10, 15 years after debut like SM idols do…. even BoA that was never known by her vocals still capable of nicely sing live simply because she always had proper vocal coaching.
The thing that annoys me so much about the clip of itzy recording and jyp criticising their vocals is that it’s his damn company. They sign these kids to train them, just to seemingly let them fend for themselves, at least in the vocal department and then he has the audacity to be “surprised” that they can’t do it? Not that he has self awareness since he himself sounds… interesting
I wholeheartedly agree!
He is not the ceo and he doesn’t train them, so it is entirely possible for him to be suprised lol
@@unkofi445this part!!
SM vocal is very stable. They not only shout or do aria but sing very naturally and clean.
They don't do any arias, they don't sing classical music.
NMIXX truly is a groundbreaking group for their generation. The most stable and consistent vocals I have ever heard from any girl group especially. They can pull off any concept and song. It is unfortunate though that they didn't get nominated for any MAMA Awards. When you have a category like "best vocal performance" how does a group like NMIXX not get nominated?
bc that category has nothing to do with nmixx, nmixx singles(and most of groups) are base on dance, if they wanted to be nominate in the vocal category they should have a hit song without choreo
Well that category is for ballads & slow songs without choreography. But they nominate BTS for vocal performance. 🥴
@@averyatwell95ikr 🤣. It's always gonna make me laugh 😂
@@afeliz2642 Tbh I didnt know that but they still should have been nominated for another category especially with how well Expergo performed (Chart and Sales wise).
@@Coconut5225 I mean their album or single didn’t did much better than the 6 girl group that are nominate so I think it’s bc of that
I’m really proud of Seungmin, I.N., and Lee Know for getting vocal training outside of JYPE. They’ve actually had so much improvement just between Maxident and 5-Star it’s insane to me. I hope the others look outside as well. Also NMIXX slays fr give clear skin
I think it's only these Div 1 & 2 idols that need outside training. Studio J, SQU4D and Division 3 all seem fine
@cyj7n I've forgotten which groups are in which division, can you please enlighten me? I only know Studio J because I follow the bands.
@@cyj7n agreed
@@rye4881 skz, 2pm and niziu are in div1, itzy is in div2, twice and jyp are in div3, and nmixx is in squ4d. the bands are in studio j and i believe its been rumoured vcha is going to be under div3 too but i don't know if it's been confirmed yet.
@@diana-om5xz thanks so much!
I recently watched skz's survival show for the first time and I found it soo crazy that someone like I.N was still unstable after three years of training (absolutely no hate to him he was soo young) and it was only picked up on the survival show, where were the vocal coaches then? I'm glad that him, Seungmin and Lee Know decided to opt out of the company for vocals (apparently their vocal coach is also Baekhyun's coach)
From what it seems to someone with zero vocal knowledge I think JYPE finally recycled their coaches because xdh and vcha's and nmixx's vocals seem soo much better but that's just me
Yes but jeongin is actually a really good vocalist when he sings how he wants to comfortably. When you listen to him singing trot music you can clearly hear how comfortable that type of singing is for him. He strains because he tends to sing more nasally. From what I’ve seen, a lot of kpop idols do this so I’m wondering if it’s a technique they all get taught. But again Jeongin seems like he forced to sing in a way that isn’t comfortable
SM is so good at creating interesting vocal soundscapes and each one is pretty unique to the group. Vocal soundscapes are important for maintaining interest in a song from start to finish, which sadly isn't an industry priority. So much of the vocal discourse surrounding 4th gen artists revolves around how well artists sing the chorus and/or bridge(if it even exists!) and it's like people understand that the rest of the song is boring and samey sounding but can't vocalize it.
Have you heard about Billlie?(not a pun for any fans reading this!) They're under Mystic Story, a subsidiary of SM, and one of my favorite 4th gen groups. Billlie's music is all about experimental instrumentals and rock solid vocal talent. Billlie is so good live!
True
Agree
I would be interested to train in SM just for the vocal training(but it’s not easy in reality)
when i talk about how terrible hybe's vocalists are, i am NEVER talking about seventeen. in my mind seventeen is not associated with hybe at all.
But you're associating fromis_9 with terrible vocals. Crazy. ☠️
@@Your_miserys_miserymost of the groups hybe acquired through take over of other companies are excluded from the terrible vocal accusations. i was just mentioning seventeen specifically because they have some of the best boy group vocalists (outside of sm) in the industry, and are far too good to be associated with hybe.
Fromis_9 are so good, I love Sakura, Manchae and Kazuha but Fromis_9 >
@@takethingswithagrainofsalt they said hybes terrible vocalists and only excluded SVT... meaning everyone else, including fromis, is terrible according to them
@@Your_miserys_misery i already clarified in my earlier comment that that wasn't what i meant. i definitely don't think fromis_9 are terrible at all.
Wendy's voice at 16! Like everyone say mother
I am impressed ❤️.
one thing abt a racist.. they gonna sing!
She was amazing from the getgo
@@mewybee lol you think a racist would sing a beyonce song?
@@meongikkeo LMAOOOO????
nmixx is really insane, considering the difficulty of their dance and vocals, they can definitely be the top in kpop gg in terms of *overall* skills, not a single weak member. all of them have showcased their vocals, dance and rap and they're really surprisingly good in all of them. but lily really is my favourite vocalist rn, just amazing what she can do. her confidence in her voice and stability is what makes her incredible. first day on the job, she's already phrasing A5s and consistently too. can't wait to see how they improve even more in a few years
Too bad that JYP is not good company for promo... They are doing whatever in terms of music very often. I love Lily and I am very sad
Honestly they're THE best K-pop group atleast for 4th generation.
I think the best way for NMIXX to really shine is to change their music. Don't get me wrong though. I get the fact that NMIXX literally stands for music genre mixed into a song or something like that. I also personally like NMIXX discography, but I remember how, despite O.O being successful and making rounds on the internet, Korean general public disliked it as it was too bizarre and unpleasing to ears (the sudden change of music mid-song).
Maybe That's why i used to hate ballads before when i used to hear mostly from HYBE now that I'm mostly into SM songs i find ballads very ear pleasing and actually makes me want to hear it.
facts
The only sm ballads I skip are from aespa bc their structure is a bit bland compared to their kwangyanese songs 😔But sm idols got me even saving some of their osts! Hoping for a xiaojun ballad solo debut one day bc his voice is so warm and emotive
That’s right, I wasn’t interested in ballads until I heard Exo
Literally can feel all emotions when listening to she noooo longerrrr needssss meeeeee
Gods SM and ballads are meant to be. They used to do acapella on yonder days, but I dont hear any from 4th gen upwards
JYP Entertainment needs to give Jeongyeon a reward for 1. NOT following their terrible vocal technique and 2. Carrying Twice’s encore stages as a result.
I mean, most if not all JYP main and lead vocalists do not follow this 50% air, 50% sound technique thing
@@cyj7n You have a point lol 😆
@@alexandragabitto2573 yeah, it's only the sub vocalists that do this and sub vocalists are generally already bad so it's not like it's worse or smth in a way
Never ever ever use encore stages as a measurement of vocal talent or ability. Also, the fact you left Jihyo and Nayeon out shows you are too biased to be taken seriously lmao
@@SquirtlePower809 I’m not saying encore stages are a measure of vocal talent, just pointing out that this is one of the VERY few examples of raw vocals. Also, praising Jeongyeon is not dissing YOUR fav, I just personally think Jeongyeon is one of the most stable vocalist in Twice and that she is under appreciated.
Do note that Seungmin, I.N and Lee Know from Straykids stopped taking vocal lessons in JYPE, we may not know the reason but all of you know that JYPE havr this half air half vocal habits which eventually may be bad to the idols. Now Seungmin, I.N and Lee know are taking vocal lesson with EXO's Baekhyun's vocal coach everyday. We can see the improvements during the start of Maxident era, the half air half vocal was gone and they can now control mord their techniques.
This!!!!!!! I.N and Lee know my biases
Tbh at SKZ level of "seniority", they should be able to take more personal steps to improve their skills if they wanted to, such as the case of the members who opted for outside coaching. Even Day6 (or at least Young K) still opts to take vocal lessons to maintain the good aspects and maybe learn new techniques. So, yeah, good for these guys who are taking these personal decisions to improve themselves.
Also I think the groups who produce for themselves, like SKZ, D6, XH, have better control in making sure that their songs will be on par with their skills. It's harder for the girl groups who have to conform to what the producers want.
This was so good! I’d love a part two between Cube, Starship, RBW, and maybe KQ? (Not sure which the 4th company would be). This would be a great time to discuss groups like Beast/Highlight, BTOB, Pentagon, Sistar, Monsta X, Cravity, Mamamoo, Onewe, Oneus, and Purple Kiss!
It's really interesting how Cube's boy groups actually have some really good vocalists while their girl groups... Lets say it's like the bar for them is FAR lower...
RBW vocal line is SO GOOD. Like I am so surprised no one is hyping purple kiss and oneus and onewes vocal line. Like Seoho and Keonhee are amazing, and I love the trio Swan Goeun and Chaein. I heard RBW is debuting a new bg and I can't wait to see their potential.
All Cube boy and girl groups have a sense of identity in their vocals lines. All of their boy groups have good vocal lines, but for their girl groups, it is hit or miss. Starship girl groups have good vocal lines both WJSN and Sistar have good vocal lines and distinct concepts and music that separate them from each other. IVE has a distinct concept and music, but not a good vocal line. RBW is quite interesting since they have groups like Mamamoo and Vromance, who are powerhouse vocalist with great harmonies. Then they have Oneus and Purple Kiss, who may not be full powerhouse vocalist, but who have good vocal lines or some members who have identifable voices that make them stand out very well (I don't know much about Onewe).
I would not include KQ their producers are obsessed with high notes and making their vocalist sing out of their range for most of the song. Someone save Jongho.
@@clownito9100even as a (G)I-dle stan, I can't deny that this is true though. Cube girlgroups have decent main vocalists, but I've noticed that all of them barely improve over the course of their careers. Which is kinda odd since Cube boygroups like BTOB and Pentagon have outstanding vocalists that only improve as the years go by.
Trully would like part 2. Would be a much more surprising ranking. Not to forget that some of my favorite vocals are in these groups.
I need some Kang Seung Yoon and Lee Suhyun appreciation fr. Those two are the best vocalists by far in YG, not to mention some of the best in the industry imo.
i just saw this after i commented. it's such a shame that they are ignored when it comes to vocal comparisons like this when they are literally among the best in kpop. even winner jinu, who may not be the best when it comes to vocals but has trained 100% under the yg trainee system has a pleasant singing voice that isn't 'yg style'
This. Although it should also be noted that Yoon and Suhyun already had the talent before they entered YG, and thank goodness the company didn't force them to train vocally to their standard or else it would've ruined their voices.
Suhyun has one of the prettiest voices i’ve ever heard 😭 the sheer lack of attention she gets is genuinely baffling to me, i hope akmu starts receiving the attention they deserve !!!
It's becos they are good before entering YG, and unlike SM that has a system to help their already good singers to improve even more, YG's already good singers stay being good by not adopting YG's style/ system of singing.
They both get overlooked a lot because they come across as singers more than idols, I think.
boy do i have my problems with sm the comapny but their artists are top tier. sm artists' vocal delivery enhances my experience as a listener therefore allowing me to enjoy their discographies. they're always my go-to artists and I don't think that will change anytime soon. They have great performers as well which is a plus. NCT DoJaeJung's Kiss, Onew's Circle, Exo's Let Me In, and NCT Dream's Broken Melodies are just a few of my favorites from SM this year. Can't wait for WayV and Red Velvet.
I strongly agree SM groups got me into kpop
how about taemin's guilty aswell😅
@@iyanshi9765 oh I love his new mini album! Especially the last three tracks on it. Taemin's unreal.
@@jooniekosmos2120 ikr, I'm so happy he's finally back!! even way v's on my youth is gud... and rv is is gonna be gud as usual...sm doesn't deserve these gud artists seriously
@@iyanshi9765 fr! imagine how things would be if SM wasn't stupid and treated their artists right... they'd be unstoppable!
crazy cause hybe didn't even train seventeen..so in reality they(hybe) have no vocals to back up their label.
The case of Hybe too, is many of their stans say Hybe groups have good vocals, but the groups they give examples of were trained by other companies or completely under different labels before Hybe got ahold of them like Nu’est, Seventeen, fromis_9, Chaewon and Yunjin of LE SSERAFIM who were all trained by different labels. But when you look at the idols trained by Hybe’s vocalists, they’re not the best, and rely a lot on autotune and lipsyncing. You can also look at companies that prioritize something, like YG with rap, SM with vocals and visuals, and JYP with dancing, and they still are able to be able to excel at different categories, so Hybe group stans cant continue to use the excuse of Hybe prioritizing dance and rap, cause even then both of those are tragic in multiple cases so Hybe really just is pushing out idols to push out idols as many of their idols are not training for a long time under the company either, with many averaging only about a 1 to 2 years while other labels have many idols training for 5+ years
People keep saying sm doesnt prioritise dance when all the best dancers r in sm .they definitely excel in dance too .
And they always choose minors instead of good vocalists like R U Next show, they chose Wonhee who trained for one month and they said she has potential and can debuts straight away. She is young, she can debut anytime in the future. And they decide to eliminate good vocalists: Jiwoo, Chanelle, Ruka… who trained for years!
I agree. I think BTS is the only group who really was built on lyrics and vocally first and everyone else they've created has been below that bar. Not saying their groups are bad but HYBE is VERY GOOD at putting likable and relatable members together that resonate with fans. Doesn't mean they're the best dancers or singers but all their groups members fit perfect with each other and bring other tangibles to the table. However, I do agree that none of the artists they "acquired" are HYBE artists. Like you mentioned they were all trained under different companies and scouted differently more so for their vocal abilities. So I also can't count them as being "trained" under HYBE since all their fundamental vocals and dance learning was from outside.
@@newzinski6946 bts only gd vocalist is jungkook tho .bts gd in rap and producing
@@augustinejade those companies doing a bad job but its obvious they r gonna be categorised as hybe
Nmixx & Aespa are the groups where there is no weak vocalist & I love that !
They're the most vocally development k-pop ggs
Like atleast all the member's are contributing nd being good in vocals
Mamamoo is the blue print for this kind of group!
Red Velvet too
@@ziggypo5594Spica is … Wince they debuted first.
Edit: *Since
@@ziggypo5594Big Mama is.
@@ziggypo5594BigMama, The Grace, The Lush and SPICA are older groups with the premisse of a real vocal group, all debuted before MAMAMOO. I get it, MAMAMOO is great (my top 5 fave), but they are not the blueprint, they are the most succesful one
That’s why SM artist are really great at live performances, impromptu singing and almost always invited as wedding singers- the confidence thet have at singing❤
Also, guess which label get the offer for their artists to sing an OST the most?
Yes, it's SM.
@@94mp99 And Also Chen Is Called The King Of OST!
@@hannavang1594and Taeyeon with her most successful OST ever!
@@AoDk673and now winter and Ningning getting the chance and whole aespa
@@AoDk673 Yes 👍 That Our SM! SM Vocals Are Super Good 😊 And Yes 👍 Soloists In KPOP Are Also Very Good 😌
That's why there are many SM artists debuting as Musical Actor (like Seohyun, Wendy, Baekhyun, Kyuhyun and many more) .
Also, I remember Suho's friend said that his voice was not good before but look at Suho now doing Musical. ❤
I also love how SM puts so much effort in their song recording, like their layering, it's so good to listen.
SM is gonna be the best vocally among the “big 4” companies we all know that already. But the fact that YG artists or just YG in general is more well known in hiphop/edm style of music particularly their rappers but still ranks next to SM is very impressive to me. Also, we all know HYBE’s gonna be the weakest here lol I even see some company stans using Seventeen for their vocal clapbacks when they were already known as a powerhouse vocal group WAY before hybe acquired pledis
This video seems to be forgetting that YG Artists are some of the performers that are good at live not god-tier perfect but still good. YG old debuted groups showed eventhough they prefer to highlight stylistic approach, they can still hold their own in their vocals and make the performance fun. Likes of Taeyang, Daesung, Park Bom, Kang Seungyoon, AKMU, Seungri and Jinhwan was also good. BP did fluctuates in terms of quality, but the recent ones like Coachella was great and their concerts although not perfect they had their good moments. Treasure was slightly rough at their debut but their vocals was always present since the beginning and their concert clips deliver. They perform live very often and fans can hear notable growth from them.
BabyMonster is a Monster in vocal field so I guess YG is doing something right
as an SM groups' long time fan, i have mostly listened and grew up listening to SM groups/artists. i have of course listened to plenty other groups outside SM as well, but always stayed mostly with SM groups and artists. i didn't use to watch concerts or go much into lives of those other groups that i listened to, but i did listen to them live for some stages and of course award shows which i would watch a lot some time ago.
recently, i have tried doing the same with some groups outside of SM and i was shocked and very unpleasantly surprised. i mean, i was used to the saying that SM is the vocal powerhouse of kpop or how any lead vocal in sm would be a main in other companies, or something of the sort, and i unknowingly went into watching others outside of SM with the same expectations i have for sm artists, but i did NOT expect the level to be that low. i was honestly surprised.
i must mention, the level that shocked me was only in the recent generation. back in 2nd and 3rd gen, i feel like the difference in level was not as big, but for these newer groups i was honestly shocked at how low skilled they are. i mean, being able to sing properly is the most basic thing for a singer and even that they butcher... it's disappointing how little care is put by some companies in developing their artists' vocal skills for their job, and how they just let them be active giving such poor performances.
Same literally y i dont understand y some hype up certain vocalists.when u listen to sm they have amazing vocals and u look outside then its rare to hear a gd vocal specially in new gens
I also try to appreciate other groups (outside SM) which seems interesting to me, however I couldn't tolerate their music, and lack of diversity of music and vocal tone almost similar to all members. I'm not putting them down, however, fandom putting them to pedestal and giving so many awards(questionable anyway)as if their idols are top tier is to me madness.Seems ability is not important anymore only popularity and hype by their companies matters to them. So sad,mob mentality.. The delusion is real in Kpop.
Most of the genuinely vocally talented new groups aren't the most popular either. ONF are great and also have consistently great music but are hardly spoken about by the international fandom. Fromis_9 are the most talented vocally of the HYBE girl groups but again, paid dust. Things have definitely changed compared the past where groups with at least one standout vocalist were also popular (I'm thinking Infinite, Sistar, BAP, Secret, B1A4, EXID, or even GFriend in their prime).
I used to hate SM. Not the company but the songs. I feel like SM songs are too autotune. Forgive me because popular SM songs at that time are Sorry Sorry, Bonamana, Mr Simple. Suju was so popular in my country. So I assumed they don't actually know how to sing because the amount of autotune they always use in their song.
So I was a fan of BTS and hearing their live, I was like, damn that's an awful vocal but reading the comments everyone were praising their vocal so I was like, huh? I used to be directioner and god, how different it was between 1d vocal and bts'. But thinking BTS has to dance while singing so it's normal to have that kind of vocal.
So I kinda stop listening to BTS and became casual kpop fan but actively avoid SM songs. Until I became a fan of exo because of that one member I discovered through drama. I was shocked at how good their vocal is. Like, damn so it's possible to have good vocal while dancing.
Recently, I also got into Suju. Yeah the very first kpop I knew. And oh my god, everytime I watch them perform, I was like, no way this is live. Because their voices are that good. Too similar with the og audio. Why a really great vocal group has to have 3 most popular songs with heavy autotune???! I was heavily misunderstood.
Since then, I love SM the most.
Same! I started listening to NCT and that automatically led me to other SM artists and I really noticed their vocal skills over artists from other labels. I was really surprised there isn’t more effort to improve the vocals, but I guess the labels don’t really make it a priority if the artists are popular and selling records. 🤷🏻♀️ For me it will always be SM >>
It’s crazy how these Kpop companies just refuse to invest in vocal lessons that will improve technique in their idols. This big companies have NO excuse. There’s no way constant vocal lessons aren’t a good investment. I feel like they don’t care because the groups will have fans regardless and a lot of the times many of the groups in the lower rating get praise on their voices as if they are the best of the best.
Hybe cares more about their idols' looks than skills and it shows
dont include SM here😂
I just thought I would add Xdinary Hero’s and Day6 to the JYP list, like those boys can sing. And I get that they have an advantage of being a band so they don’t need to dance while singing but I feel like it’s a crime to gloss over them. Amazing music and amazing singers🚨🚨🚨
yeahh.. people keep forgetting that jyp also has day6 and xh which are full of incredible vocalists!!
Yes omg Stan Day6 and xdh for clear skin
THANK YOU!!
This is no shade to my Twice girlies and Stray Kids, but I've been saying that DAY6, Xdinary Heroes, and NMIXX are carrying JYPE's vocals
Stan Day6 for clear and powerful vocals
The differences are quite apparent, there was a time when I was so curious of what was their vocal training looked like in each company, I wish I could be a fly on their walls 😅. I just want to know the different teaching method each company use.
And we actually have the same ranking. SMYG are definitely my top two favourite (in terms of vocal) among big 4.
Both always have quite distinctive tones in each group that are pleasant to listen to.
watch JYParks casting shows.
Same SMYG is my top 2 favourite. Even when idk or never heard the song I will say "oh it's group/idol from SM/YG" it make so much easier when I like the song but dont know the singer or the title I only have to pay attention of their vocal/singing style 😂
We have Seungmin, I.N and Lee Know who have to pay out of pocket for a vocal coach because Jype vocal trainers were not helping them improve at all.
Not to mention Lee Know admitting that the few months he was a trainee before joining the stray kids survival show, he didn't get a single singing lesson from JYPE and he was a trainee for like a month (then he was basically eliminated from the survival show for not singing well after not getting any training for it) 😭😭
Not sure why multimillion companies are unable to get vocal trainers who protect and cultivate their artists' voices instead of teaching then harmful things for them in the long run. I wish that the rest of the members would go to the same vicail trainers as 2min and I.N, beciase i think the members have so much more potential with their voices but learning under JYPE isn't allowing them to progress.
It seems to me that some companies (in this case I'm talking about JYPE) like to fit all their artist in a bubble and then teaches only that specifically way of singing but its damaging because not every single person sings the same.
For JYP- multiple idols have complained about their vocal training under them, and the entirety of Stray Kids' vocal line has said they are currently paying out of pocket to see a different vocal coach (the same one Baekhyun uses actually) in their spare time because they were not happy with what was provided. I've also seen members of just about every JYP group from Twice to VCHA make fun of JYP's signature "50% air, 50% voice" technique. It's very frustrating to watch.
Wdym? VCHA has improved in vocals recently with Camilla going from Kyujin/Nayeon level to Jihyo level or better. Twice is okay and Jihyo and Nayeon seems to be improving a bit or atleast gaining better singing habits. Stray Kids' case might be an isolated to their division which afaIk is the same division as ITZY's. But JYP has been doing well overall with XH, NMIXX, A2K's possible improvement and Jihyo & Nayeon having better singing approaches compared to 2020-2021
@@cyj7n I literally stan VCHA lmao, I was just saying every jype group has made fun of his signature style of 50 air/50 voice. The girls are amazing singers and have already improved so much, but in their making of vids (I don’t remember which specific one) they joke about it
@@cozythembo Welp, can't blame me for mistaking your comment being concerned about the agency's training lol. JYP has been shit on quite a lot unfairly and has been portrayed as an agency that teaches their idols the wrong technique when in reality, this 50/50 thing only really exists with their sub vocalists, not their mains or leads, for majority
@@cyj7nactually skz are under div1, which also manages 2pm and niziu, while itzy are under div2
@@chantastlc I see. Thanks a lot
Not a company stan but y'all gotta agree SM vocalist are a different breed. It's funny how you mentioned Seventeen carrying HYBE's vocals because they really are. Their main vocals are one of the strongest in the industry n even the rest of the members sing well & stable. I'd say fromis girls are also amazing and If Nu'est were still active, they would've carried too. Not surprised tho cause they aren't technically from HYBE, instead got acquired. Coincidentally, all of the good vocalist comes from Pledis (even lesserafim' yunjin trained in pledis). Such a shame honestly, HYBE has the resources to train their idols better.
Rappers can sing too but SM rappers can sing quite decently and give lead vocalist or even some main vocalist from other companies a run for their money. Just look at Chanyeol, for example.
I've seen Seventeen in concert twice. My friend is a huge fan and I've slowly gotten into the group too. Even though Seungkwan and DK are objectively the best vocalists of the group, the other members definitely can sing and have good pitch-catching. This point is very obvious when they have impromptu singing moments. Even when they are out of breath and resting in the intermission breaks to interact with fans, all members can hold a melody and some even jump in and harmonize (it's not just the vocal team members jumping in)!
So when I saw the clip of Enhypen (I don't know this group besides the fact that they are from a survival show) in concert in the video, my jaw literally dropped. Not to be mean, but being out of breath can't be an excuse with the previous thing I just mentioned about SVT. I will give benefit of doubt and hope that ideally, that day some members' voices probably just weren't in their best condition....
Ikr? I was in shock with that clip lol
Yeah. All of Enhypen badly need proper, rigorous vocal training. Their technique is undeveloped and there’s so much strain. I think the only ones with consistent-ish support are Heeseung and Sunoo? And even they need to improve a lot more. They are pretty young overall so that definitely plays a factor but with the vocal potential some of them have (Jungwon, for example) they deserve a lot better. Imo jungwon could be on the level of Haechan if he got proper coaching.
@@kaykeunili badly wish he and the other members could receive some good coaching but their company is only using them as cash cows, sending them on tour after tour without letting them have a break to get some rest and training in...and it honestly seems like all they 'practice' during their schedules is dance. it's so frustrating to see wasted potential because of the company's greed
The way he is one of the only few youtubers brave enough to call out Sakura and Kazuha’s vocal incompetence
Wym? Everyone shits on their vocals I never seen anyone even sugarcoat them
It is a fact that lesserafim or hybe idols have awful vocal skills. I dont want sugar coat because that is the reality and mostly their songs have the same vocal tones and exaggerated autotune.
The only thing that hybe is ahead of other companies is the money and good promotion to their artists.
@@cyj7nbut have you seen the defenders? There was a video about Sakura singing like a chicken and all the defenders are saying is "she's so pretty" like bro that was hella embarrassing.
@@Hellokitty_391 I've never seen that because the amount of videos about this is very high and most of the comments are not the nicest and likely that whoever said that has met extreme backlash (based on what I've seen) and/or been buried beneath the 1000× more comments being critical of her (acceptable) or hateful towards her (unacceptable)
@@cyj7n I've seen a lot of her defenders on TikTok and it makes me hate the fandom more than I already do
One thing, jyp, hybe, and yg, trained their singers to sing in a specific ways. They trained their trainees to sing the way they wanted them to sound. Thats why most of the times, they're gonna sound the same as the others from their company, or sometimes, it was sounds forced, forcing their original vocal. Which of course, will not worked on everybody. While SM, they trained them without changing their original voice. They trained their trainees how to sing properly, with their own style and it makes all of the vocalists have their own outstanding vocal color. Keeping a singer original tone will always elevate their vocal skills and sound.
That's so wrong to do, they should instead take an artist and develop what the artist has, not impose a vocal persona on the artist
@@Everythingz127 exactly. So, not that they're that bad at singing, its just the company force their voice to sing in a specific technique, and obv, its not gonna work on everybody.
The thing with JYP is that the issue, which I assume is the "half-air, half-sound technique", aka, breathy singing only persists in their non lead or main vocalists. Vocalists like NMIXX, 3mix, XH's 3 best vocalists, for example,.do not have these problems
Hybe also sometimes uses autotune to force a vocal identity onto a group instead of letting their natural voices to breathe, I noticed it with txt when I was struggling to tell members apart :/ blackpink suffers from overemphasizing their vocal uniqueness, Ive seen clips of them singing much nicer without it and it's not just rose
@@anny8720 ikr. This what I called they wanted their artist to sing in a specific way. Hybe used too much autotune to change their singer original tone. And it makes their singers struggle performing live because of course, it sounds different.
Aespa and Red Velvet are coming back this november!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!
Can't agree more about SM!. They are truly know how to find a potential vocalist. I notice some of their older generation was also good even before training. Such as Kyuhyun, Taeyeon, Changmin (TVXQ), Junsu and Jaejoong (Ex-TVXQ), Ningning. Even their ex-trainee mostly good also such as Yunjin (Lesserafim) even though you show the weakest time of her, but I believe she is quite good, Soyeon (T-Ara), Gdragon (used to be in SM before joining YG).
I dont know, probably just me noticing some traits on JyP boygroup vocalist is tend to be 2 people: 1 with bit nasal sound (Jun.k, Youngjae Seungmin) and the falter one ,I dont know how to express it (Duo Jaebeom (Jaypark, he used to be 2pm main vocalist, and JB of Got7).
in no way am i a jyp stan, but its so impressive to see how stable their idols are with their extremely hard choreos. you could not pay me to try to do the gods menu or mitm choreo while having to have stable vocals and controlling my breath
I agree with this one, even tho the company is shit at picking vocal coaches their idols have extremely stable vocals
Let's not forget nmixx, and 3mix from Twice (Jihyo, nayeon, jeongyeon) all of them can SANG!!
The stamina
I respect SM for giving "SINGERS" a chance to become idol. Taeyeon, Baekhyun, Chen, D.O, Max Changmin, Seulgi, Wendy, Doyoung, Taeil, Haechan, Chenle, Renjun, Sohee, Ningning and Winter. SM doesn't pump out new groups like Hybe does and that's because it's essential to take time to make a great group that's complete in all the aspects we expect idols to be. hybe seem to be debuting minors, kids who've barely discovered their strength and potential, put bunch of pretty ppl in a survival show, and instead of really honing skills in a nurturing environment, they put pressure on these kids to come on top, competing for what ? popularity ! the essence of their profession that is music is lost really, at the end of the day these idols sell albums and concerts but now its more about the face and endorsements and basically selling beauty not music, To think most fans think SM is bad yes the contract thing sucks but whoever is incharge of the music is doing their best and I'll always respect them.
Hybe didn’t train Seventeen. Good for them. A solid technique not only makes you a better vocalist, it also guarantees a longer and healthier career.
And this is why I love sm artists. Their songs has so many vocal layering that lift the song from great to amazing. They utilize each member's voice by doing such thing. And some of the members who has 'least' lines, they're mostly the one who has the most backing vocals (ex. Yeri, sehun, giselle)
Giselle's voice is so good she can be a lead vocalist in another group
no because why are JYP producers so obsessed with notes exceeding F5 😭 Nayeon said I Can't Stop Me's demo was even WAY HIGHER than what we hear today, imagine her vocal chords trying to hit those mf notes 💀
SM is not just about great vocals now, but they also have great dancers and recently after NCt, they are also paying attention to great rappers too and let us notforget that SM is known for their VISUALS🔥🔥🔥
I saw a community poll basically asking which out of the 4 big companies has the weakest singers, and for some reason Hype is never picked, it’s always jyp or yg. I’m pretty sure everyone knows hype idols can barely sing, but since they’re so popular and well-liked, I feel like people cant accept that fact 💀💀
SM home of the best vocals 🩷
Lol love that SM pays so much training to their idols' vocal training and quality to then not let them sing like a majority of the time 🙄
SM is about longevity and vocal talent. just saying. there's no need to compare from people who are below them
Rubbish.
this is why most trainees, if given the chance, would like to train under Sm. They might not debut, but they'll have access to great and proper vocal training. Heck, even the rappers in SM can sing-sing. It always surprises me how good Chanyeol, Mark, and Irene's singing voices are.
tbh aside from the vocal training, sm actually recruits trainees that are already vocally competent 🤷🏻♀️
that's really good, tho cause you know they have priorities
@@blue_leafs agreed 👍
Of course why you wanna recruit someone that cant sing to release a song 😅
@@casperkid8842 bcs they're a good dancer and goodlooking? Aside from vocal talent, both of these qualities are needed in kpop yknow?
Not always though. Have you heard Taeyong tell the story of how he was recruited?
I’ve been a fan of YG artists for more than a decade and i notice that YG are tend to find more unique tones singers rather than typically high tone singers. Well, with those versatile vocals it adds more flavor into their songs. Plus, YG artists never struggles to performing live especially on their vocals, raps and their main weapon, stage presence. Tbh, YG have some vocalists whose ranges can be considered as one of the best in korea. They even taken more care for those vocalists and let them even have their own personal vocal trainings. Vocalists like Lee Hi, Suhyun, Bang Ye Dam and Kang Seung Yoon are a good example for that. Kang Seung Yoon is one of the best vocalists i ever know from korea. His voice are suits with any genres, and his range are just insane. He could sing a very high note while jumping on winner’s recent comeback. He also become the first idol to won 6 times in King Of Masked Singer which is hard to do. Hopefully people will try to focus more on YG vocalists especially Kang Seung Yoon
Now that i think about it.....Hybe Main Vocals were already good before joining the company: Yuju is well....Yuju and she was under Source Music, Yunjin did Opera during her high school days, Jiwon was a JYP trainee (and probably next to next Jihyo the Best singer during Sixteen days) and as far as i know, the Seventeen vocal line is Self taught bcuz Pledis sucks.
Yunjin was an Above Average (high C+) vocalist before HYBE but now shes Average (mid C) it's so annoying
@@jenniekimstolemymoney4208Yunjin was an SM trainee with Winter and Ningning .
Yes but those idol wasn't trained by hybe
If we take idol strictly trained by hybe (lsf, nj, txt, bts, enhypen) their best vocal are decent at best most of them are weak
And Yunjin was trained by sm with aespa
yunjin did not do opera nor is she an opera singer 😭😭 musical theatre and opera are different, and she is no where near being as good as an opera singer
@@stxntwicethey meant that she was classical trained no one said she was as good as a professionally trained opera singer no need to throw shade.She probably has the best head voice in the 4th gen anyways.Kinda wish ain’t no other fan would have spoken more about her and chaewon.Chaewon even improved when she got the hybe and newjeans and lesserafim vocal styles a nowhere near the same.
EXO to this day still attend vocal lessons (their own will). These new gen idols should follow suit.
So the clips from Seventeen were added to Hybe's section at the end as in showing they too have good vocalists. I applaud Seventeen but imagine if Hybe didnt buy Pledis, there would probably nothing can be shown here 😂
@@takethingswithagrainofsaltfr
@@takethingswithagrainofsalt well thats not wrong to boast since its the fact 😅. Im not really a hardcore fan of Seventeen but casually listen to their songs. If you ask me who is the most talented group from Hybe, my answer is Seventeen. I agree with you on why Hybe bought them. Seventeen is not only talented, they also have the selling power. Just look at their album sales. They are already good on their own while other ggs or bgs from Hybe would be tagging as "BTS's siblings" as in BTS's younger sisters or BTS's younger brothers. These ggs or bgs might be already popular at some point but being in the same agency with BTS did "enhanced" their popularity at the global market
@@takethingswithagrainofsalt agree
@@AllysaEllyEllawell said
@@AllysaEllyElla true Seventeen is very talented. I watch in caratland swith unit even rapper or dancer can sing..
Yes! Baekhyun, Chen and D.O. had already been trained by vocal coaches before they joined SM!
I thought D.O was trained by YYJ (?) I mean he was called YYJ's son (?)
@@uc6758 he was, after he joined SM, but he was already vocally trained before that, that's how he got scouted, same with Baekhyun and Chen, the three of them were interested in being singers one way or another and then got scouted by a kpop agency lol
@@bella11110 ahhh I see
Most likely similar case with Taeyeon who already released a song before her SM training days...
Yeah a lot of SM idols seem already good before joining. But SM itself can also train vocalists well
We appreciate how well you articulate your own insights. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much!!😊
Mf be acting like she's speaking on behalf of everyone by saying "we"
@@urhypeboyayo chill
As much as I hate SM, I love all those who debuted under them. Their vocals are always so impressing and they improve so much. Like even their rappers can sing!
Speaking of SM's behind the scenes studio recording videos... go watch NCT-127's recording of their comeback "Kick It." That one sticks in my memory because of the way they edited it...the whole video is edited as a build-up to Taeil's belting note in the song. Super fun to watch.
The sad part was in the MV Taeil overshadowed in the back when he hit that high note. I'm still feeling so upset about that.
@@linadecrava895 And this exact thing happened in 2 Baddies MV, least screentime + getting overshadowed during climax high note. And Taeil being the absolute king he is, he made it sure to show his disappointment during their first time reaction to their MV. He did not even clap at the end.
My assumption is, due to this behaviour of Taeil, something shifted in SM management, thus he got one of the best screentimes of his entire career in Ay-Yo. SM can't afford losing the best NCT vocalist after all.
Hybe really needs to step up in terms of vocals. There's no single strong vocalist in thier company. Some might say seungkwan and jiwon are strong but seungkwan and jiwon has been strong since their days in pledis. Which means they are already strong since a few years prior of HYBE
Finally someone who knows what they're talking about by including fromis
Yunjin, Yuju, Jiwon, Seungkwan and DK are there best already but these vocalists are already where they were before they were taken by HYBE. I feel the best HYBE-trained vocalists are just Hanni and TaeKook
They dont care tho which is so stupid.
Taehyun?
@@yamasuuno He isnt even as strong as V
I really hate when fans force themselves and OTHERS to say that their faves sings good. When they're literally shaky, strained and screaming.
Especially Fearnots. They said Eunchae and Sakura are GOOD vocalist. They are so far from that. Like where??? What brand of ear do you have bestie?
They say they've gotten better at singing, and it's confusing. How? Where can I find a clip of them not straining? If they aren't, they're not singing live.
The other days I read an article about boynextdoor who's gotten praise for their encore stage, so I decided to watch.
And nope, I guess my expectation is too high 😩. Some of them even sound like they're forcing their voices to come out. It doesn't pretty at all. I guess we all have different bar of vocal 😅.
HYBE understands the importance of visual appeal, which is why they emphasize it (+dancing) more than other things. They want their idols to look good and make strong impressions with their visuals and dance. My theory is that because of this, they compromise alot of the hard work that goes into training vocals. Baekhyun for example has 10+ years under his belt and still takes vocal lessons to better himself. Why do that when you can find the most attractive new young trainee and capitalize off that instead?
Another example, Le Serrifim's best singers are the two people who alreadly had experience in the industry and didn't rely on HYBE's non existent vocal training. Chaewon was an idol for many years in IZONE and alreadly had good vocals. Yujin was a trained opera singer, she was alreadly great. Sakura however never properly had vocal training. From being in AKB48 till now, she still has not improved in vocals at all. And they didn't bother to focus on that, only the visual aspects of her (ex dancing).
And they literally formed Le Serrifim lineup last minute with Eunchae and Kazuha being kinda thrown in when they had minimal training. That is my theory, whatever your vocal skill are when you enter is what you will have when you debut. Obviously they tweak a little to make them sound a little better but that's all. If you have vocal skill already, great, but they wont help you. You're basically on your own, which is really sad because Sakura really seems like someone highly responsive to proper training but she is just not getting the opportunity.
And for ENHYPEN it's also similar. I remember watching I-LAND and thinking wow Niki is a really really bad singer like he's almost never on tune. But he ended up debuting because his visual skill (dancing) was so amazing. Everyone in that group are very good dancers. But there's a reason why they debuted with Given-Taken and the whole song was autotuned to the point where you could barely find differences in their voice.
In my opinion, HYBE's motto is if you look good and you dance good, your vocals can be edited to sound good or avoid that part altogether. It's not a priority. They understand their target audience. What draws new fans in these days is catchy dancing and good visuals. You are given leeway with vocals because they can be manipulated, avoided, autotuned or cut out. Plus, a catchy song itself is a super reliable way to distract from vocals, which seems to be the method that HYBE is also using. HYBE just in general is popping out so many groups all at once and saturating the market. They are debuting people so quickly but not making sure if they are ready which makes the quality of each idol lessen and lessen. But hey it's probably smart because people always wanna flock to the newest trendy new thing.
but, yes...Hybe like autotune in their song....
literally. your last sentence is literally what they did with their newer groups like enhypen and nwjns. yea. i said it.
This does a HUGE disservice to the artist because then they have no longevity as idols and adds to the stigma that idols face in South Korea where they are seen as lesser entertainers than say… ballad singers not in the idol system, and actors.
The industry is brutal. 25-27+ is considered old for women. Military service is a huge obstacle for the men. By the time they reach it it’s contract renewal time which is another hurdle for these idols. People’s looks fade (because the industry prioritizes extreme youth over everything) and people get tired of idols even if they are pretty cause they’re not the ‘it’ girl/boy of the moment anymore. Also the insane dancing has an expiration date cause they’ll never be able to keep up with 18-25yr olds when they’re back from military services pushing 32/33yrs old.
But vocal skills? The ability to sit in front of a mic singing live a cappella or acoustic and have it be compelling? That can last for decades. Does it ensure they’ll be popular, no, but at least they’ll have a lasting skill they can carry on. Many of these artist have vocal potential that they’ll never reach all because they aren’t afforded the lessons and guidance and that’s a shame.
This video was focused on vocals, but since I mentioned longevity, I’ll add that some of the other things idols do can give them opportunities in the future, like acting, but it remains to be seen what 4th/5th gen can do once their idol careers are past their peak.
So definitely there are people who treat being an idol/singer as a maximum 10yr project and segue to other forms of entertainment. I can’t say how many of these idols are set for that. Usually there’s only a few outstanding ones that successfully move on to acting, some do variety, some can write or produce music well, but tbh not as many as Kpop fans like to believe. Recently, fashion and merchandising is a big thing with idols and seems can have longevity if they stay relevant in the fashion world.
@@jaetine9006 Agree. And also in this day and age of social media, HYBE artists come the time they break free from their groups can be...influencers at least :))
Girl 100% agree with what you said, as someone that listens to a lot of hybe groups it’s really frustrating because it’s not that hard to train them on vocals. Like they have to sing live eventually so I do t get why they ignore it soo much because, I love listening to their tracks because the songs they pick are great but, the days I listen to live stages or anything very few times I’m 100% enjoying the performance because it’s unfortunately very pitchy.
SM has the best visuals, the best vocals, the best dancers
The BEST and most complete idols are from there
Best rappers too
true, not only vocals, but SM is known for the VIsuals❤❤ but they also have the best dancers and rappers.SM may have shitty management at times, but we cant deny their idols have it all❤
I remember how NCT sang From Home at Mama standing still and using their full potential of tones, vibrattos etc and thousands of kpop fans were sure that it was fake, cause no one can sound so good😂
Because they never heard any kind of that live quality in their group their stand...but for SM stand it's common things to hear great vocal while SM idol sing live😄
NMIXX is such a breath of fresh air not just from 4th gen or as a jyp ent but in kpop overall.
even SM ex trainees are vocally talented and well trained unlike other labels more than 5years of training and still tonedeaf, groups from small companies are more talented, gidle, mamamoo, kissoflife, but SM really is the home of vocalists
Kiss of life Belle main vocalist is an ex sm trainee… lesserafim Yunjin, Kepler Chaehyun, Yeonjung from WJSN, Inseong SF9, Pentagon Jinho all these main vocalists trained under SM
SM might be the company with the worst treatment to the idols, but they sure know how to collect talent. I've been an EXO-L for years and when I tell you I've never seen someone on their level, not only their extra unique and amazing vocals, but rap, dance, EVERYTHING. As we're getting to new gens, people are sadly focusing just on looks and trend/popularity
Well said.
something I used to always say about the big 3 is that they’re very evenly balanced with which skills their idols/groups tend to excel in and need to develop. obviously there are always going to be exceptions and this is almost entirely based on what the companies seem to prioritize not the general skills of the idols under the companies. but anywho as I used to say…
*YG*
strength - rap
weakness - dance (mainly a victim of lackluster choreo)
*JYP*
strength - dance
weakness - vocal (mainly due to the company forcing singers to fit the song instead of finding songs to suit the singers)
*SM*
strength - vocals
weakness - rap
again like I said there are obviously exceptions and this is going to become more and less true as these companies get new and lose old trainers and coaches in these areas this is just what I noticed tends to be the overall priorities of the big 3
Hmm I don't think SM has weak rappers though. I'm thinking of EXO and Amber from F(x) not to mention NCT with Taeyong Yangyang and Mark.
@@broskijoeski127back then, it is their weakness, but they've been upping their game after they debut Amber and their rap quality just gotten better since then.
@@broskijoeski127 I just mean it as their weakest point of the three! I think overall their idols generally tend to have better vocal and dance skills and training than rap
Sm rightnow, have good rapper. Like mark, gissele. And gissele is second best rapper after soyeon in 4gen.
@@Aura-xp3gj i dont think that they mean that they are weak at rapping but that they are better at singing and dancing than rapping.
The fact that SM has the best vocalist and they don't let them song live is annoying as hell
They do let them sing live in some important events (I think it depends on the payment), and their concert.
Fr. I don't know why SM care more about the dance category when they're not the best at it (girl groups), and ignore to showcase their beautiful artists' voices more.
They could just stand on stage doing nothing but as long as they sing live I would be happy.
they sing live a lot lmao just not on music shows. at university festivals, concerts, and other events they do sing live
@@takethingswithagrainofsalt maybe perfection is one reason, but it was not like that during 1st and 2nd gen. Lipsync began to be more popular during 3rd gen, the dance moves became harder, even more intense nowadays. And even if they sang live, many times they still have to use (pre-recorded) backing tracks 😌.
@@milshaaddit6589 i hope you don't mind me jumping in here for a bit. i just wanted to add an aspect which i remember from 2nd gen, when they would almost all the time be singing live - i would often see many fans then complain that the members of groups have such a hectic and packed schedule that they could barely get enough sleep (promotions were much longer too back then) and are not let to rest their voices enough. idk how much this mattered in how things are running now, but i honestly like that they at least get to rest their voices much more than back then.
One example is in R U Next they eliminate who can sing high notes and confident in responsible for main vocal in most missions: Chanelle, Jiwoo, Ruka… So HYBE has a lot of good vocalist trainees but they decide to eliminate (maybe because of age, concept, visual,…).
To be fair, SEVENTEEN is only good because they did not train under HYBE, they were under Pledis first...
One of the few pledis did good
I just hope the sm vocal legacy will continue after all the upheaval there this year. Without people like Lee Sooman and Yoo Youngjin, who knows what will happen there.
Alot of sm workers r reason y they able to have gd vocqls not just lsm .so many sm employees have stayed for years im sure they will be okkie
Have you not seen RIIZE, SM new boy group, the talent and vocals are on point, SM would continue to have it vocal quality 👏🏻👏🏻
@@fotomagrol Yeah but those RIIZE members weren't recruited and trained last night, they've all been there since the old company.
@@rachelmaddowswife8713yyj doesn't play an important role in all SM artists' vocals, he only teaches vocals to a few trainees, while the real SM vocal trainee is Jang Jin Young. You can see him on NCT Lastart, NCT Universe and on riize bts content too. Jang Jin Young has trained many SM groups from the past until now, so even though YYJ and LSM have left, SM group vocals will still be maintained because Jang Jin Young is still at SM and still trains vocals for SM trainees and btw riize is also trained by him.
it still is, look at aespa, Riize and now NCT Wish, them vocals even the non vocalists can rsing really well❤.... So yeah, SM legacy eill continue❤
Also in SM even the ones who sing the least and have other main positions can hold their ground Giselle, Sungchan, Chanyeol etc...
Sungchan in nct u- know now. He has such a good voice
The fact that I knew you would point out SEVENTEEN vocals being miles better than everyone else under HYBE really shows how bad Hybe is at training their vocalists. Like Even the dance line in SVT sing better than some of the vocal line members in other groups under hybe.
fr
Hoshi ❤
Hybe is such a serious case imo bc i really feel like some of their artists, without proper training, are fcking up their voices more and more each year- For me, Jimin is an example of this bc i swear, to me he sounds like he struggles more now than he did before, and that's insane like the opposite should be happening instead!
In terms of vocals, SM vocalists are just built different.
I'd love to know your opinion on Vcha. I feel like Kaylee, Camila, and KG all have great potential vocally and I especially love KG's voice, but I don't trust JYP to look after their voices properly so I'm worried tbh.
^^^^^
I think JYP has had a change in focusing on high pitched songs eg Twice songs are lower, for Nmixx their releases this year have all been significantly less sharp and high pitched compared to dice and o.o . Only Itzy still gets such songs. Contrary to popular beliefs that Jyp has no vocalist especially gg, over the years they really good vocals like 15&, wonder girls had good vocals and also miss A. Basically those with already good vocals are safe. The ones to worry about are the inexperienced vocalist like Kendall and Lexi
Glad to know that I'm not the only person who got worried about that. I got worried since the first time I heard that JYP wanted to get rid of some singing accent in KG's singing (he wanted to get rid of her country-ish singing style completely). Tbh, that was part of her uniqueness :( why would he want to get rid of that completely? And I'm worried about Camilla too :( she's got so much potential, but if she's being taught with wrong methods, it will mean nothing.
That's why I was kinda glad when Melissa left the show. She had that distinctive technique already rooted in her powerful voice. I don't want JYP to change that (also, he told Melissa that she had "too much air" when she sang, wtf was that?).
No one cares about this flop "global group", they'll be forgotten and disappear soon
@@damienphoenix1554JYP is doing better in training. Camilla very likely improved from being around Kyujin level to Jihyo level or better
I totally agree with you're ranking!
Also I'm really hoping that jyp has now brought in good vocal teachers / has a focus on vocals for their trainees and that's why nmixx (and xdinary heroes?) seems to have much better technique and it wasn't just a miracle.. wish they had done it earlier but just hopefully they did something
I was hoping for these too because A2K contestant also gradually improve and get really stable at singing. I'm reeeally praying that their teaching system get better
Yes. There seems to be a change recently. Camilla of A2K has likely gone from being just Kyujin level to Jihyo level or better
@adiazrue5776 let's wait for the official debut, they have one great vocalist already, 4 with great potential and one not so great...I was honestly a bit disappointed by some vocals for the pre-debut, some sounded great in the studio but not live. But oh well, what can you expect with 6 months of training. They have potential so it would be even worse if they don't give them good vocal training. If JYPE f this up, I'm so mad. It's like he threw all of his values out of the window. For example, what happened to at least waiting for idols to be 15 to debut (which is still way too young)? Anyway as you can tell I'm just a bit disappointed that they seem to have gone backwards after NMIXX great talented members (they're a sublabel though so who knows).
I dunno how much autonomy the different divisions inside JYP have when it comes to training. Because the groups you mentoned (NMIXX and XH) are in different sub-labels/divisions than the groups that the video focused on.
Also to add re: SM - I'm not sure if it's part of their training but when they sing in English, there is CLARITY. I'd say even if they're not required to speak the language, if you're peddling a song in English, you can AT LEAST do some due diligence and ensure that you sing it clearly so that it would MAKE SENSE. (This applies to ANY foreign language they sing, and this can also be seen in D.O.'s Si Fueras Mia, which apparently had some fluent speakers fooled because they actually thought he was a native -- there's a Hello 82 video on this)
Not to hate on any group, just stating an observation: I first listened to BTS' Dynamite and thought they were singing in another language that wasn't Korean or English. Made me wonder why the supposed biggest group in the world had no coaching? :( Hmmm.
ikrrr i'd say its also because of autotune or excessive layering plus not getting coached about pronunciations when the artist literally doesn't speak english
True. I also noticed that SM artist pronounciation in english are much better. For ex. Renjun cover of Fools by Troye Sivan is much better to listen to than BTS cover. Renjun pronounce the words clearly.
@@rodagonzales4167 Yes, and I would say Taeyeon as well, she is by no means an English native speaker,
but when she sings in English, she totally can convince people to believe that she comes from the US.
Literally like seulgi will sing an English song and not sound korean
Literally yes
Sm is really great and I'm always amazed whenever I listen to aespa's vocals 😮💨
One of 4th gen's best
I agree as usual. Kpop companies kinda suck at training. I legitimately am concerned for these idols voiceboxes. Also, first commenter ✋️
This is so sad fr. These kids spend years "training" but they still don't learn the most basic skill for being a musical artist
Jyp could have done so much better with Lia and jeongyeon’s vocal tone. They have such amazing lower notes but jyp entertainment always tend to make the songs pitchy. A good example is all the ost s Lia has sung. They are so good.