These videos are great. Keep 'em coming. I still think the MP-40, -50 and -60 are the best sounding immersive processors on the market. Just sublime sound and better than the well-known competitors.
Have you heard the competitors? Trinnov,storm-audio? In therms of flexibility they are far more customizable from my humble understanding. I personally have mp-40 and I am super Impressed from the sound and the insane bass quality. But I think that Trinnov is better but I'm not sure. My friend should get the alt16 in a few days and I will have the opportunity to listen to the trinnov. Maybe I'm wrong.
@martindew5038 the only downside in room perfect is that after calibration you can not change nothing to your liking and it's very disappointing in that point. Atoher then that the results are absolutely stunning by all means. Especially the bass...o man that base is so remarkable and tight.
@SteinLyng - Roland, thank you for a great and informative video. I'm considering a TDAI-1120 and have a couple questions. You mentioned that RP may not have a big difference in a room that is already decent, that might have some treatment. I'm thinking about the opposite end. I’m wondering if you’ve found a type of room that RP can’t deal with, that is just outside it’s parameters, that, even after, say, 15 measurements, the score won’t go above 90. Something that is oddly shaped, bright, with cathedral ceilings, perhaps.
RoomPerfect corrects the in room frequency response by adding corrective eq. In most rooms this will be a significant improvement to the sound, but the end result can depend on a number of factors. Your listening position, the room treatment and shape, capability of the speakers etc. Asymmetrical rooms are not a problem, it may even be an advantage. RoomPerfect will almost always reach above 90% room knowledge after 4-5 measurements; even the weirdest room will have characteristics that can be mapped by RP. If the room is particularly strange (!), you may choose to only make measurement in the main listening area. An example of this could be a L-shaped room. Regarding your mention of a cathedral with high ceilings, this will typically have a long reverberation time. RoomPerfect can not correct this, it can not transform a cathedral into a small living room.
In your experience, is better to keep main spaakers as full range and add a sub, or cut main speakers at a specific frecuency and let the sub to take care of the lower notes alone. Thanks
In most cases, if speakers and woofers overlap too much, there will be unforeseeable side-effects. In most rooms, speakers and woofers stand with some distance to each other, meaning the same frequencies will be played from different speaker, and from various points in the room, with different distances to the listeners. Frequencies will be adding up, cancelling out, even creating shifts. It’s better to separate them with only a slight cross-over. The exact cross-over frequency depends on the main speakers. In most cases they benefit from crossing over 10-30 Hz higher than their own frequency range “on paper”, which is where they already begin to underperform.
I’ve only had experience Room perfect in McIntosh flagship processors I own some of them and there’s no other room correction that I’ve tried that sounds as good can’t live without room perfect
Hi, have another question: is better to start placing the sub where perform the best and AFTER that run RP, or in your experience that's not critical because RP takes care of everything ?. You know that depending of where the sub is located, you can get "boomy" bass or almost no bass, because the room nodes. Thanks in advance
I've noticed that my speakers sound very different depending on the stands used. To what extent will RP help with addressing irregularities or imperfections that come from the choice of speaker stand? For example, if the stand is excited by a certain resonant frequency, will RP be able to help balance that?
That is an interesting question, because it is a good example of what RoomPerfect does and doesn’t do. One of RoomPerfect’s original idea is that it separates the loudspeaker sound from the room sound, and mainly detects and addresses room-acoustical problems. That’s what the multiple measurements are for. RoomPerfect tries to retain the speaker’s original sound, and not linearize it to an imagined flat response ideal. That would manipulate the speaker’s sound character, which was likely the reason why you bought this speaker! “irregularities or imperfections“ of the speaker or even speaker stand is kind of unknown to RoomPerfect, because it would appear in every measurement. It won’t be detected as any room-caused issue, and therefore not corrected. Speaker and stand are one, acoustically. For good and bad… In other words, if you hear that the stand affects the speaker performance in a negative way, the stand is the problem to be solved, not the room acoustics.
@@SteinLyng That's helpful to know - so having a good pairing of the speaker with the stand (and considering any contact points with the floor) remains important for the overall sound - thank you!
Let’s imagine having guests in the room and they are sitting here and there. Does room perfect have the option to make the sound better in the room overall? I mean not for just one spot, but also some other points in the room at the same time?
The very best calibration will always be for the Focus listening area, around your seat. But there is one more options: “Global” setting, which means a milder correction in the listening area and better for listening elsewhere in the room. You can also add a second Focus area, which is ideal if you have two favorite listening seats.
Can you use the analogue output of TDAI-1120 into a separate woofer amplifier? I.e., will the TDAI-1120 work as a "crossover", to remove sub bass from its own speaker outputs and pass it to the RCA analogue line level outputs?
Yes, that can easily be set in the TDAI-1120 setup menu. The main speaker outputs can run full bandwidth or with a high pass filter, and the analog pre-out can also run with full bandwidth or a low pass filter. The filter frequency, filter type, and volume gain can be chosen. Afterwards, RoomPerfect will make the best alignment between main speakers and subwoofers.
Steinway Lyngdorf also has several open diplole speakers, and RoomPerfect is used successfully as part of these systems. The multiple room measurements helps RoomPerfect to understand what the room is like, and what the speakers are like. One thing to take care of with electrostatic speakers is their rather linear sound beam, therefore too high or too low microphone position should be avoided. Vary the height, and move it randomly across the room, but keep the mic rather around the listening axis.
Hi, I have a TDAI-3400 and always wonder if RP change the volume of a sub to match it better with the speakers or that have to be done perfectly matched before any meassurements?. And another one: how can I tell what crossover point is better between subs and speakers?, no way that RP take care of that, or offer better options that the one the I choose?. How can I tell if in my system 80hz is better that 70hz or 4th order crossover is worst than 2nd order one?,. Thanks in advance for your help on this
Hello Jorge RoomPerfect does align sub volume level to match speaker volume level, and it does this alignment finely for different frequencies. In comparison, if you’d increase the volume level on your sub manually, ALL bass frequencies played by the sub would go louder. That’s why RP is so good with sub-ssat. However, RoomPerfect doesn’t know how loud your subwoofer could go. Therefore, before doing RP, the best is to bypass the subwoofer’s own volume control (only using the TDAI pre out gain), or to set it to a high volume setting (90%-100%) so RP knows what the sub is capable of. At first it might seem too loud, but RP will get it right. RoomPerfect does not interfere with the crossover setting. If you tell RP that (for example) your speakers play down to 60 Hz, it won’t push it lower. The ideal crossover between subwoofer X and speaker Y is depending on these, not on RP. The best way to set the ideal crossover frequency is to see what your speakers and woofers are capable of “on paper”. For example a speaker covers 45Hz - 20.000 Hz. This means 45 Hz is already on its edge, and the crossover should be well above, 60 Hz or higher. Anyway, 80Hz and a 4th order filter is a good starting point for many speakers and woofers. Try 60, 80, 100 Hz but all before doing RP, and stick with the best setting chosen by ear.
Just to confirm, you mention: " set it (the subwoofer) to a high volume setting (90%-100%)" .. no typo here right?. I have 2 REL T/5X subs , at about 40% of their volume (or "10 am" as REL recommends) seems a good blend with my Magnepans (LRS+) . You recommend to set them more than double that number and leave them there because RP will take care of that. That sound little " scary" because is waaay more than where they should be. I know your must be right because you are the RP designers, but just want to confirm what I understood from your comment. Thanks again. @@SteinLyng
@@Jorge-pk7re Hi, what do you mean by “because is way more than where they should be“ - which volume level should be, and why? A subwoofer should be able to play up to 100% of its own volume level. But even then, in this case the sub won’t play 100% because RP will likely tune it down to match the speakers. Of course you can keep the sub at 40% if you have good experience with that setting in your system, but remember that RP will see this as the sub’s absolute max. volume level, and never ask for more. If your turn up your speakers louder, at one point the subs won’t follow because you limited them on purpose.
Can we change the target curve, I have a wide raise in the middle region I want to control. For the moment using Dirac Live v3 and was wondering if I cloud become better results with Room perfect. The room is far from perfect, and I’m not able to put many acoustic panels (would never pass the esthetisch commission ;-) Large speakers B&W 802D3 driven by Accuphase Amp. I use 100% streaming, also DLNA from server with music on NAS
No one’s room is perfect, nor wants to place acoustic elements in the living room, so you are in good company…! Apart from changing your interior design, acoustic elements often influence the sound much more than only at the acoustical problem, leading to a totally different and not always better overall room acoustics. Calibrations like RoomPerfect are a much more specific tool, and works great with some living room friendly diffusion and absorption like drapes, carpets, furniture. If you already know (by measurement?) about a wide rise at a certain midrange region, you could already address that in the Lyngdorf amplifiers with the so-called Voicing feature, even without RoomPerfect. Voicings are customized digital EQ settings in the pre-amp stage’s DSP. Usually Voicings are not for addressing (much more complex) room acoustical problems, rather to achieve a preferred sound. But if you already know what you are aiming for, you can try this first. Room acoustics and the sound energy from a speaker in the room are much more complex, both in dimension, decibel, and time. That is what makes RoomPerfect different in its approach and in the audible result. Chances are that RoomPerfect will address your described problem without adding or changing the sound equalizing further. But you can still do that: After RoomPerfect you have a listen, and in case you still perceive (and are unhappy with) a rise at a certain midrange region, you can add that customized Voicing, and save it. That equalizing will then be added to the same DSP, and you’ll have the best of both. On UA-cam and our website you’ll find some videos about Lyngdorf and Voicings.
@@SteinLyng The question I have is whether I can use a house curve as target, that is wat we are doing in Dirac V3. I want to know if the samen is possible in Room Perfect. I have several measurements with REW, curve with Dirac is much better than without but the stereo image is very narrow but in the sweet spot is is very nice. Does Lyngdorf is thinking of a DSP box without an amp, like McIntosh has, If I remember it is based on Room Perfect…
@@patrickmeylemans9627 If you know a certain “house curve” that you already prefer soundwise, of course you can build that into a custom Voicing curve and add it. There are 8 filters (each with parametric, high pass, low pass, and shelf filters, dB setting, and different Q) to draw almost any curve you like. We still suggest to do that AFTER RoomPerfect, because your “house curve” is surely a result of how it sounds like without any room calibration. Chances are you’ll prefer a different sound tuning than the “house curve” determined before. Yes, McIntosh uses RoomPerfect in some of their models. There are currently no plans for a stand-alone Lyngdorf DSP box, as RoomPerfect is integrated in our 2-channel stereo amplifiers (which could however be used as pre-amp/processors only, by disabling the power amps in the setup menu) and in our 16-channel AV processors.
Great and very comprehensive video on RoomPerfect! I’m quite in love with my TDAI-1120. :)
what are you using for speakers?
We are glad to hear that! Thanks for your comment.
Super informative, thank you!
Excellent Q&A, very insightful. Even for a RoomPerfect veteran.
Hi Thomas, thanks for your comment. We are glad to hear that.
These videos are great. Keep 'em coming. I still think the MP-40, -50 and -60 are the best sounding immersive processors on the market. Just sublime sound and better than the well-known competitors.
Have you heard the competitors?
Trinnov,storm-audio?
In therms of flexibility they are far more customizable from my humble understanding.
I personally have mp-40 and I am super Impressed from the sound and the insane bass quality. But I think that Trinnov is better but I'm not sure.
My friend should get the alt16 in a few days and I will have the opportunity to listen to the trinnov.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Thank you Martin! We are glad to hear that - and promise that more will come ;-)
@SteinLyng what about the bug in the sub adjust?
When it will be fixed?
@@מיקמקיםלאביא Yes, I have, but I still think Lyngdorf has the edge in terms of warmth and soundstage cohesion
@martindew5038 the only downside in room perfect is that after calibration you can not change nothing to your liking and it's very disappointing in that point.
Atoher then that the results are absolutely stunning by all means.
Especially the bass...o man that base is so remarkable and tight.
@SteinLyng - Roland, thank you for a great and informative video. I'm considering a TDAI-1120 and have a couple questions. You mentioned that RP may not have a big difference in a room that is already decent, that might have some treatment. I'm thinking about the opposite end. I’m wondering if you’ve found a type of room that RP can’t deal with, that is just outside it’s parameters, that, even after, say, 15 measurements, the score won’t go above 90. Something that is oddly shaped, bright, with cathedral ceilings, perhaps.
RoomPerfect corrects the in room frequency response by adding corrective eq. In most rooms this will be a significant improvement to the sound, but the end result can depend on a number of factors. Your listening position, the room treatment and shape, capability of the speakers etc. Asymmetrical rooms are not a problem, it may even be an advantage.
RoomPerfect will almost always reach above 90% room knowledge after 4-5 measurements; even the weirdest room will have characteristics that can be mapped by RP. If the room is particularly strange (!), you may choose to only make measurement in the main listening area. An example of this could be a L-shaped room.
Regarding your mention of a cathedral with high ceilings, this will typically have a long reverberation time. RoomPerfect can not correct this, it can not transform a cathedral into a small living room.
In your experience, is better to keep main spaakers as full range and add a sub, or cut main speakers at a specific frecuency and let the sub to take care of the lower notes alone. Thanks
In most cases, if speakers and woofers overlap too much, there will be unforeseeable side-effects. In most rooms, speakers and woofers stand with some distance to each other, meaning the same frequencies will be played from different speaker, and from various points in the room, with different distances to the listeners. Frequencies will be adding up, cancelling out, even creating shifts.
It’s better to separate them with only a slight cross-over. The exact cross-over frequency depends on the main speakers. In most cases they benefit from crossing over 10-30 Hz higher than their own frequency range “on paper”, which is where they already begin to underperform.
@@SteinLyng understood, thanks
I’ve only had experience Room perfect in McIntosh flagship processors I own some of them and there’s no other room correction that I’ve tried that sounds as good can’t live without room perfect
thanks for your comment! We're glad to hear that!
Hi, have another question: is better to start placing the sub where perform the best and AFTER that run RP, or in your experience that's not critical because RP takes care of everything ?. You know that depending of where the sub is located, you can get "boomy" bass or almost no bass, because the room nodes. Thanks in advance
I've noticed that my speakers sound very different depending on the stands used. To what extent will RP help with addressing irregularities or imperfections that come from the choice of speaker stand? For example, if the stand is excited by a certain resonant frequency, will RP be able to help balance that?
That is an interesting question, because it is a good example of what RoomPerfect does and doesn’t do. One of RoomPerfect’s original idea is that it separates the loudspeaker sound from the room sound, and mainly detects and addresses room-acoustical problems. That’s what the multiple measurements are for. RoomPerfect tries to retain the speaker’s original sound, and not linearize it to an imagined flat response ideal. That would manipulate the speaker’s sound character, which was likely the reason why you bought this speaker!
“irregularities or imperfections“ of the speaker or even speaker stand is kind of unknown to RoomPerfect, because it would appear in every measurement. It won’t be detected as any room-caused issue, and therefore not corrected. Speaker and stand are one, acoustically. For good and bad…
In other words, if you hear that the stand affects the speaker performance in a negative way, the stand is the problem to be solved, not the room acoustics.
@@SteinLyng That's helpful to know - so having a good pairing of the speaker with the stand (and considering any contact points with the floor) remains important for the overall sound - thank you!
Let’s imagine having guests in the room and they are sitting here and there. Does room perfect have the option to make the sound better in the room overall? I mean not for just one spot, but also some other points in the room at the same time?
The very best calibration will always be for the Focus listening area, around your seat. But there is one more options: “Global” setting, which means a milder correction in the listening area and better for listening elsewhere in the room. You can also add a second Focus area, which is ideal if you have two favorite listening seats.
Can you use the analogue output of TDAI-1120 into a separate woofer amplifier? I.e., will the TDAI-1120 work as a "crossover", to remove sub bass from its own speaker outputs and pass it to the RCA analogue line level outputs?
Yes, that can easily be set in the TDAI-1120 setup menu. The main speaker outputs can run full bandwidth or with a high pass filter, and the analog pre-out can also run with full bandwidth or a low pass filter. The filter frequency, filter type, and volume gain can be chosen. Afterwards, RoomPerfect will make the best alignment between main speakers and subwoofers.
@@SteinLyng Fantastic. I plan to bi-amp a pair of transmission line speakers, with present amp for woofer duty. Thanks for your reply.
Is there any different approach when using RP with dipole speakers ? I run Quad 2905 electrostatics.
Steinway Lyngdorf also has several open diplole speakers, and RoomPerfect is used successfully as part of these systems. The multiple room measurements helps RoomPerfect to understand what the room is like, and what the speakers are like. One thing to take care of with electrostatic speakers is their rather linear sound beam, therefore too high or too low microphone position should be avoided. Vary the height, and move it randomly across the room, but keep the mic rather around the listening axis.
Hi, I have a TDAI-3400 and always wonder if RP change the volume of a sub to match it better with the speakers or that have to be done perfectly matched before any meassurements?. And another one: how can I tell what crossover point is better between subs and speakers?, no way that RP take care of that, or offer better options that the one the I choose?. How can I tell if in my system 80hz is better that 70hz or 4th order crossover is worst than 2nd order one?,. Thanks in advance for your help on this
Good questions ,esp for non audiofiles
Hello Jorge
RoomPerfect does align sub volume level to match speaker volume level, and it does this alignment finely for different frequencies. In comparison, if you’d increase the volume level on your sub manually, ALL bass frequencies played by the sub would go louder. That’s why RP is so good with sub-ssat.
However, RoomPerfect doesn’t know how loud your subwoofer could go. Therefore, before doing RP, the best is to bypass the subwoofer’s own volume control (only using the TDAI pre out gain), or to set it to a high volume setting (90%-100%) so RP knows what the sub is capable of. At first it might seem too loud, but RP will get it right.
RoomPerfect does not interfere with the crossover setting. If you tell RP that (for example) your speakers play down to 60 Hz, it won’t push it lower. The ideal crossover between subwoofer X and speaker Y is depending on these, not on RP. The best way to set the ideal crossover frequency is to see what your speakers and woofers are capable of “on paper”. For example a speaker covers 45Hz - 20.000 Hz. This means 45 Hz is already on its edge, and the crossover should be well above, 60 Hz or higher. Anyway, 80Hz and a 4th order filter is a good starting point for many speakers and woofers. Try 60, 80, 100 Hz but all before doing RP, and stick with the best setting chosen by ear.
@@SteinLyng thaks for this usefull information.
Just to confirm, you mention: " set it (the subwoofer) to a high volume setting (90%-100%)" .. no typo here right?. I have 2 REL T/5X subs , at about 40% of their volume (or "10 am" as REL recommends) seems a good blend with my Magnepans (LRS+) . You recommend to set them more than double that number and leave them there because RP will take care of that. That sound little " scary" because is waaay more than where they should be. I know your must be right because you are the RP designers, but just want to confirm what I understood from your comment. Thanks again. @@SteinLyng
@@Jorge-pk7re Hi, what do you mean by “because is way more than where they should be“ - which volume level should be, and why?
A subwoofer should be able to play up to 100% of its own volume level. But even then, in this case the sub won’t play 100% because RP will likely tune it down to match the speakers. Of course you can keep the sub at 40% if you have good experience with that setting in your system, but remember that RP will see this as the sub’s absolute max. volume level, and never ask for more. If your turn up your speakers louder, at one point the subs won’t follow because you limited them on purpose.
Can we change the target curve, I have a wide raise in the middle region I want to control. For the moment using Dirac Live v3 and was wondering if I cloud become better results with Room perfect. The room is far from perfect, and I’m not able to put many acoustic panels (would never pass the esthetisch commission ;-) Large speakers B&W 802D3 driven by Accuphase Amp. I use 100% streaming, also DLNA from server with music on NAS
No one’s room is perfect, nor wants to place acoustic elements in the living room, so you are in good company…! Apart from changing your interior design, acoustic elements often influence the sound much more than only at the acoustical problem, leading to a totally different and not always better overall room acoustics. Calibrations like RoomPerfect are a much more specific tool, and works great with some living room friendly diffusion and absorption like drapes, carpets, furniture.
If you already know (by measurement?) about a wide rise at a certain midrange region, you could already address that in the Lyngdorf amplifiers with the so-called Voicing feature, even without RoomPerfect. Voicings are customized digital EQ settings in the pre-amp stage’s DSP. Usually Voicings are not for addressing (much more complex) room acoustical problems, rather to achieve a preferred sound. But if you already know what you are aiming for, you can try this first.
Room acoustics and the sound energy from a speaker in the room are much more complex, both in dimension, decibel, and time. That is what makes RoomPerfect different in its approach and in the audible result. Chances are that RoomPerfect will address your described problem without adding or changing the sound equalizing further. But you can still do that: After RoomPerfect you have a listen, and in case you still perceive (and are unhappy with) a rise at a certain midrange region, you can add that customized Voicing, and save it. That equalizing will then be added to the same DSP, and you’ll have the best of both.
On UA-cam and our website you’ll find some videos about Lyngdorf and Voicings.
@@SteinLyng The question I have is whether I can use a house curve as target, that is wat we are doing in Dirac V3. I want to know if the samen is possible in Room Perfect. I have several measurements with REW, curve with Dirac is much better than without but the stereo image is very narrow but in the sweet spot is is very nice.
Does Lyngdorf is thinking of a DSP box without an amp, like McIntosh has, If I remember it is based on Room Perfect…
@@patrickmeylemans9627 If you know a certain “house curve” that you already prefer soundwise, of course you can build that into a custom Voicing curve and add it. There are 8 filters (each with parametric, high pass, low pass, and shelf filters, dB setting, and different Q) to draw almost any curve you like. We still suggest to do that AFTER RoomPerfect, because your “house curve” is surely a result of how it sounds like without any room calibration. Chances are you’ll prefer a different sound tuning than the “house curve” determined before.
Yes, McIntosh uses RoomPerfect in some of their models. There are currently no plans for a stand-alone Lyngdorf DSP box, as RoomPerfect is integrated in our 2-channel stereo amplifiers (which could however be used as pre-amp/processors only, by disabling the power amps in the setup menu) and in our 16-channel AV processors.