What Preamplifier? Which one of my top 10 would you go for?
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
- In this video I look at ten different preamplifiers, from 600EUR (656USD) to over 17,000EUR! I compare features and performance in some detail because preamplifiers are the pieces of HiFi equipment we interface with the most, be it via an App, a remote control, or by getting out of our chairs and pushing buttons turning dials. But how much should you spend? Is 'expensive' always better? What features are useful and which are not? And why bother with a preamplifier at all?
Pre-amplifiers covered:
00:00 - Introduction
02:09 - Topping Pre90 & Extender
09:26 - QUAD Artera
11:56 - Hattor
16:19 - Lyngdorf TDAI 1120
19:49 - SPL Elector
23:29 - Musical Fidelity M8sPre
29:50 - Michi P5 S2
32:14 - Sugden DAP-800
38:28 - PS Audio BHK Pre
44:42 - PassLabs XP12
45:29 - Mola Mola Makua
50:41 - Conclusion
If you would like to discover more about Pearl Acoustics, who we are, what we do and our Sibelius loudspeakers and amplifiers, please visit our website at: pearlacoustics.com/
or email us with your questions: enquiries@pearlacoustics.com
Link to our loudspeakers: pearlacoustics.com/loudspeakers/
Link to our brand new vacuum tube, Class A amplifier: pearlacoustics.com/170-single...
Social media links:
/ pearlacoustics
/ pearl.acoustics
Fantastic content ! Well done !!! Nice to see coverage at all sorts of price points ! Looking forward to your info on your tube amp !
Thanks. You’re very kind. Glad you enjoyed it
My SPL Phonitor 2 is in my system as a pre-amp and I just love it!!!
I have the SPL Elector and absolutely love it! Dead quiet and the connections are great. I also bought the SPL Crossover and love it as well.
That’s good to know, thanks.
I enjoy watching your channel because what you have to say is easy to understand and makes so much sense. Keep up the great work.
Thanks, I appreciate that. I will do my best!
What a great list and detailed overview! Thank you for this. Love my SPL Elector. A real game changer in my system and can’t imagine ever getting rid of it 🙏🏼👍🏼
Thanks!
Top notch presentation and done with respect to each manufacturer yet being candid in your thoughts for the benefit of the viewers. A+
Thanks!!! 🙏 😀
Well said
@@socool8860 thanks 🙏
It's absolutely incredible watching this. Thank you so much!
You’re very welcome! Thanks for taking the time to share your experience
Thanks so much for posting this informative video Harley. For my purposes, your timing for releasing this video is perfect.
Keep up the great work!
Cheers From
New England USA.
David-
Thank you! You’re very welcome!
Thank you Harley, another masterful performance. I am thoroughly enjoying the Lyngdorf you recommended for me, it is so usable and a great interface to the rest of the system. I too am looking forward to your review of the Pearl Acoustics 170, single ended, vacuum tube power amplifier.
Thank you, you’re very kind. So pleased you appreciated it.
Me too @Farmick. I have the tdai 1120 with Q Acoustics concept 50 speakers. I'd like to get a tube power amp and use the Lyngdorf as a streamer/preamp when money allows - always wanted to try that tube sound. I got the Lyngdorf after viewing Harleys earlier review also.
I miss the Bang & Olufsen remotes we enjoyed in the 90s. It was simple, heavy and I could point it in any direction 90, 180 degrees away, and it just worked! Just like Molo Molo.
Somethings don’t progress, it seems…
My Audio Music Rt-2 has no remote. Remotes compromise ideal design.
Great video as always. Really well spent time, listening to your thoughts. It is always passion for music combined with common sense here on your channel. Like talk with good friend. Thank you. (By the way, I've just bought Tambaqui DAC and yes, this thing sounds terrific!)
Thank you. You’re very kind. Enjoy your Tambaqui, it’s a wonderful piece of equipment!
Another excelent video. Luckily, I have no intention to buy another preamp, because I've bought mine, second-hand ,for an excelent price (new is about 5500 Eur). The preamp is the german Audio Exklusive P7S (dual mono, two separated transformers, 100% equiped with NOS tubes) and it allows to select the gain and the feedback. It sounds terrific, and for the price, it's the best I've heard so far.
You've mentioned in this video that that Sugden preamp is equiped with an old Philips DAC. I've got 5 CD players at home, with different DAC chips, the majority multibit, Marantz CD40 and Marantz CD80 (TDA1541A), Revox B225 (dual TDA1540), Primare CD31 (4xPCM1704-K) and one equiped with the dCS Ring DAC (Arcam FMJ CD23T). My best sounding CD is the oldest one, the Revox B225, from 1983, with the best CD transport ever built, the CDM-0. It was been fully upgraded, with excelent capacitors, operating now in NOS mode, replaced the plastic TDA 1540 chips for the ceramic ones and other few things that elevated, even more, the very good level of the original unit.
The Revox, is my reference player, because I don't know any other player around, new or old, (cost no object) that sounds even close to this superb player. Is the most analog sounding player avaiable, with the most credible and incredible midrange, that sends shivers down your spine digs every bit down to the smallest detail. I invite you to buy one (or listen to one) and try it for yourself, even without the upgrades, that I truly recommend.
Thank you for your very kind words. And thanks to for sharing your experience. The Revox sounds intriguing. I will certainly keep an eye out for one!
cheers from Malaysia, i learned a lot from you. thank you!!
Happy to hear that! Thanks for commenting
👏👏👏👏👏
It is a pleasure to listen to you. If one day we meet I will bow to you, sir Harley.
Thank you! And I will bow in appreciation!
I'm currently hunting for preamp. The Elector caught my attention but I read that it has VERY low gain and needs to be carefully matched. The Artera also looks interesting but haven't heard Quad gear since the grey and orange days when I found it to be rather soft in the bass. At the time I owned mostly Threshold gear so I suppose I was spoiled. A used SL-10 like the one I owned is still selling for about $1500 44 years later, in very average condition I must say. It must have been as good as I remember it.
Another fascinating video. Thanks Harley. I love your enthusiam and honesty, and feel the fact you are listening through speakers you spent years designing, meaning you know the core component perhaps as well as anyone knows a pair of speakers, must give you something extra as a reviewer. And I have to say your concluding comment that in the end it is the music is something I completely agree with. Out of interest, have you any experience with the Enleum Amp23r driving your Sibelius?
Thank you very much for your kind words. I appreciate that. I have never even heard of the Enleum amplifier, before you mentioned it. I have just looked it up. It seems very interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing.
This is a wonderful and informative review/podcast. It was a real pleasure to listen to your voice. Now, let's get technical: These preamplifiers, integrated amplifiers, and power amplifiers are, in fact, trans-impedance devices. They usually convert a high impedance/low voltage/current from the input to a low impedance/high voltage/current to the output. Ideally is to have high impedance input and low impedance output. There is a problem with passive preamplifiers, they usually have the same input and output impedance and this is the impedance of the device, the potentiometer. This gives us a very high output impedance that can not accommodate the high impedance of the power amplifier. Usually, this impedance is 10 Kohm to 50 Kohm which is very high (unless the designer uses output transformers to lower the output impedance).
Hattor Audio doesn't tell us the input and output impedance for their passive preamps.
Topping Pre 90 only tells us the output impedance which is a good low figure, 20 Ohm.
Artera: input 10 Kohm line (SE and XLR), output: 120 Ohm SE, 100 XLR-this is not bad, these are good, but not very low figures.
Elector SPL, input: 47 Kohm SE, 20 XLR, output: 75 Ohm (SE and XLR). The input impedance is good to very good and the output impedance is also good, but considering this is a pro audio company they should have made it with a lower impedance, like Topping.
Musical Fidelity M8S pre has very good figures, input impedance is 75 Kohm SE (RCA) and 150 Kohm XLR, and also good, low output impedance: 47 Ohm RCA/XLR.
Michi P5S2, input impedance: 47 Kohm RCA, 100 Kohm XLR. Output impedance: 470 Ohm RCA, 100 Ohm XLR. Michi has good input impedance but the output impedance is rather high.
Sugden Audio Sapphire DAP-800. Unfortunately, Sugden does not tell us the input and output impedances.
PSAudio BHK, input impedance is 33kohm RCA/66kohm XLR. Output impedance: under 100ohm. The output impedance of PSAudio BHK is very good, but the input impedance is not very high.
Pass Labs XP-12 has published only the input impedance which is not very high, 22 Kohm.
Mola Mola, the input impedance is 100 Kohm, which is very good, but the output is rather high at 440 Ohm.
It is very important that the impedance of the power amplifier is high and at least many times (100 times higher) higher than the output impedance of the preamplifier. Mola Mola boasts that their preamp has low output impedance and that the audio output is not influenced by the type of interconnect, which is not accurate. The advantage of a low impedance is that longer interconnect lengths can be used, as with balanced (XLR) connections.
Low-output impedance preamps like the Topping Pre90, ElectorSPL, Musical Fidelity M8s, and PSAudio BHK are more likely to sound good with a wider variety of power amps than high-output impedance preamps.
Thank you very much for your very kind appreciation, and also for a wonderfully informative sharing of additional information.
This is a terrific video. Well done!
Thanks!
I really appreciate your reviews! And your ability to present ist very good. Something to aspire to for my little channel! 🙂
That’s very kind of you. Glad you enjoy them
great conclusions Harley and I couldn't agree more. I've got a modest system (GASP: using an Onkyo RZ-50 AVR as the audio hub,) my wife and I just love having music in the home. So much so, that if we're home, there's almost certainty music playing. It's unlikely that I'll ever be investing in separates, because I have no intention of keeping up with the Jones's and cannot justify sacrificing a room in the home to a dedicated listening room. I love the sound I've got, It brings life and warmth to the home; but most of all we all listen to it every day.
It's great to listen to a true student of the game give their honest opinion. Keep up the good work.
Thank you! Such a lovely comment. Enjoy the music, and life.
Very informative video. Thanks.
You’re welcome! 🙏
I will definitely 💯 go for BACKERT LABS Rhythm 1.4 linestage tube preamplifier. It really deserves your full attention.
I'll check it out! Just looked it up, it’s quite pricy 😉
Harley, you are a gem for the audio and music world. I mean it.
Thank you, you’re very kind 🙏
Great breakdown, I am on the hunt for a preamp and didn't know about the Topping, will add it to the list to check out.
Thanks. Glad it was helpful.
🤗 ALWAYS HAPPY TO HEAR 👂 FROM YOU HARLEY, AND SEE YOU HELPING THE AUDIOPHILE COMMUNITY 💚💚💚
Thank you. Very kind as always. 🙏
🤫
Great video! On your review, I just bought a Topping pre90 to see how it does vs my Krell Class A KRC HR preamp.
Oh interesting! Let’s us know how you get on!
Thanks Harley, I enjoy your videos and candor. I hope in future to have an opportunity to hear your speakers, as they seem interesting and unique in their design and concept.
Thanks! I hope so too. I will be happy to demonstrate them to you.
@@PearlAcoustics anyone in Dallas Texas available to demonstrate them, or will you will be at AXPONA?
@@rtmattson7224 hi, I believe we do have someone in Dallas, if you reach out to us via our website, the team will help you. We are planning to come to Axpona but only in 2025
Hi I have emailed Pearl Acoustics a few times over the last month through their website and have not received a response. Is there a direct email I can use instead of filling out the form on the website?
Thanks Bob
@@rtmattson7224 hi Bob, I am shocked to hear this! I will investigate immediately. Sure… write to enquiries@pearlacoustics.com
Really excellent reviews🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thanks! 🙏
That hour went by so fast. Thanks for keeping my interest going for the entire time. This is a benchmark for how audio reviews should be done!
My pleasure! So glad you enjoyed it
Great video! I’m using my Sibelius with a Bellari active preamp, very inexpensive and unbelievable quality, it synergises really well with the sound of the speakers.
Thanks! I don’t know Bellari, I will have to check them out
@@PearlAcoustics
The model is PA555, costs $249 and ships from the US. It’s a simple device with no remote, it uses one tube. I pair it with a much more expensive British end stage, which is way out of proportion with the Bellari in terms of cost.
At first the sound was too bright and didn’t allow for long listening sessions, I had to add quite some vibration isolation to tame it a bit.
@@mauro6095 how interesting! Strange how these kinds of synergies come about! I need to check one out. Enjoy.
Great selection and overview, reflected upon in a great way. I was wondering if sound quality, and soundstage in particular, would be a subject for pre's to include?
Thanks for your very kind words. Indeed, sound quality and soundstage are vital, I think the point I was trying to make is to define ones practical needs first and work backwards from there. For example, if you don’t mind getting out of your chair to change the input selector, then you have a long list of comparisons. I tried to touch on sound quality a bit but comparing with ten became too complex. Too many variables. In theory, the pre should be transparent - but often they are not. That’s why I liked the Topping, the SPL, Sugden and the Mola Mola. I think some manufacturers make the pre too complex. A great pre should not interfere with soundstage and should not add colouration.
Great insight Harley 👍
Whats that tube amp on the top shelf ? It looksvlikeva Closer Acoustics ?
Thanks! 🙏 well spotted! The tube amp on the top shelf is a prototype of our new Pearl Acoustics 170, single ended power amplifier. I will be making a video on it, once I receive the first full production model, in a few weeks time.
You make a great point about the combination of the power amplifier and the speaker. I have reached a great pairing that works and just like you I am experimenting with preamplifiers. A good preamp makes a signal come to life. Bad ones eat detail and editorialise. When a preamp retains the details such as coherent ambiance, expression, inflections, timing and imaging without colourations, noise or distortion I sit up and enjoy the music. Couple those criteria with bandwidth and effortless dynamics and I just love to listen. Beyond that the mechanics, the user interface and the ergonomics have to be tolerable.
Thanks!
Love that turn up volume for specific sound than volume vack down i feel you 😂
;-) thanks!
I don't have a fortune to spend on audio, so my whole setup is either DIY or preowned . I'm using a bi-amp open baffle system with four 10 inch bass drivers on the bottom, and a pair of 3.5 inch coral holy baskets up top. A couple of weeks ago, I purchased an Emotive audio [ NOT EMOTIVA] Sira preamp built in 2004 that retailed for $4800. It has since been upgraded the the best V Caps and VH audio silver input wires. It operates with 18 tubes. It's a beautiful piece of equipment. You can still buy them new, as they are built to order in upstate PA. for around $8000. I can't even begin to describe the improvement in the sound. Much more holographic image in the soundstage, and hearing more decay at the end of a guitar note. This preamp has got me to a place that has me completely satisfied with my system. Now all I have to do is listen.
Thanks for sharing your comment. What an amazing preamplifier, i have never seen one before. Enjoy!
Happy to hear good impressions of the SPL pre having bought an SPL Diamond DAC recently and really enjoying it.
The only possible rival was the Sudgen DAC-4 but I don't have a local dealer to audition it. I assume this is similar to the DAC in the Sugden preamp.
Indeed the DAC-4 and Sugden DAP 800 have identical Dac’s. They basically just placed the Dac inside the pre casing. They even Neots original power supply, so you have two power switches at the back 😉.
Thank you for the comparison on these pre amps. I use a Vitus Class A integrated, fell in love with the smooth Class A sound ever since owning a Sugden A21A. At times of course I ask myself if a pre / power combo would improve things further… I am very surprised though regarding your statement that the Topping side by side performs pretty much on the same level than the Mola Mola. Knowing that the pre can play such an important part in a premium set up. If the $600 Topping can play at a level of a $10k pre than I would just use the pre amp in a decent DAC? Would be great if you could elaborate further. Thanks again for your time producing content on YT - loved the the Kid A episode!
Hi, thank you for your very kind comments. I am so glad you enjoyed the Kid A video. To answer your question on quality and price differences. When one goes into industrial design and manufacturing, there is always an investment in research and development, that at some point needs to be paid back. The team involved have to decide how much they expect to be paid for it. This can range from nothing, for a retired engineer, to a fortune for someone who dreams of the high life and driving around in expensive cars. (I am not saying this is the case in either example I give). All is possible, but you have to decide. Taking the Topping versus Mola Mola story, Mola Mola is about perfection, being the absolute best. They started with a blank sheet of paper, after studying how everyone else across the decades solved the challenges posed. Once their design is finished, They manufacture in very small quantities and all their components cost them much more than their volume production competitors. Making a chassis like theirs is probably their biggest single cost. Everything is in very small quantities. And hand built in the Netherlands.
Topping on the other hand, set out to design and build the very best sounding preamplifier possible. They came up with absolutely no compromise design (sound wise), but from the start they are thinking in miniaturisation and container loads of products. If you can make a component smaller, without impacting performance, you save on material costs, casings, packaging, shipping, etc etc. Every square inch or millimeter saved makes a big difference in the final equation. They are looking to develop chassis, circuit board, power supplies and components that can be used across a multiple of devices and even brands. But always with a ‘no compromise on sound quality’ as a goal. They are out to beat the best and keep products cheap, and small so they can sell to everyone. Then they sell direct, or via on line retailers that take the tiniest Olof margins. A typical high-end retailer will want at least a tines 2 mark up. Then the distributor needs their 20-30% margin. Add all this together and you very quickly arrive at the high prices we see.
The retailers need their margins. Buying up front, taking risks, owning large expensive showrooms with staff to pay, costs a fortune.
So the Topping is fantastic value. But it does not have the charm or streamlined operation in its user interface. It has no software application that needs constant upgrading. It also has its limitations (like its remote control) - but adapting that would cost them a fortune… because of the numbers involved.
I hope this makes some sense?
Enjoy the music
Great content! Thanks…
Glad you liked it! 🙏
I would just suggest not to worry too much about remotes. Sure for the prices you expect a decent one to be included. However, just get a universal remote, and the problem is solved. The remote is really just a detail and by far not the most important when buying a preamp. I finished the whole video in 1 go and I didn't fall asleep or get bored. Which means great content and presentation!
Thanks very much for your kind comment and contribution to the topic. Indeed, I eventually invested in a universal remote and the additional IR receiver. Now all works well. 🙏
It's amazing the difference a good pre amp can make.
Indeed
Yes cos it’s working with the fine low level signal from sources.
Your experience with the Topping remote sounds like my experience with my new cable box's remote; I have to point it at just the right angle. That can be frustrating. The Musical Fidelity and Michi have plenty of inputs; I like that.
😉 Thank’s for your comment
I ordered the Quad on your suggestion. And where, I have no doubt it'll sound great, I just think it looks so classy. It'll be a great addition to my living room set-up.
Buying QUAD is never a bad investment. Enjoy it
Hello and thank you for your informative review! I' m thinking of a test before buying a Hattor passive preamplifier. By putting a passive monitor controller (Palmer Monicon) between the source (cd player/streamer with XLR out) and the power amp (with XLR in) and attenuating the dBs from -85 to 0. Am I thinking correct?
Hello, thanks for your appreciation. I think you taking a useful approach. But maybe Hattor will lend you one for a short try out? You never know…
Great review Harley! My own experience is that when everything else is pretty much there, your wire with gain becomes very very important. For example I am more than happy for last bit of performance for less look or lack of a remote. You kind of hint that with that 600 euro topping, you really don’t lose anything even in absolute term. I always believe is that you just cannot build a first class preamp without a very good power supply. I wonder what kind of ps they use for such a small and light box?
Thanks for your very kind appreciation. 🙏 you raise a good point about power supplies, whatever Topping use, it certainly works. It gets a little warm in operation but not hot. I guess it’s switching…
Fantastic review! Did you decide to keep the Rega Naia? Thank you
Thanks! 🙏 yes I did keep it 😉
@@PearlAcoustics 👌. Is there a dealer in Toronto Canada that sells your speakers? Would love to audition a pair!
@@Tim522 Hi Tim. Thanks for your question. We do not sell via dealers unfortunately but if you reach out to us via our website or enquiries@pearlacoustics.com we might be able to arrange an audition near you. Best wishes from Belgium
@@PearlAcoustics Will do. TY!
Hi Harley, thankyou for a really nice review. I own the MF 8s pre and pwr which I really have enjoyed. I am always hearing about valve amps and have resisted them up until now. I recently bought a second hand oldish Prima Luna integrated amp to finally see if there is a difference. Not sure if you have heard the Prima Luna products (assembled in China) but I cannot believe the sound this amp produces. Running through the Focals (with the beryllium tweeter) you literally cannot stay awake it is that smooth and involving. It some ways it makes me sad as the MF's are really nice but how do you go back? warm regards as always from New Zealand.
Hi Russell, thanks for your kind appreciation. Absolutely, I HD e heard if Prima Luna. They are extraordinarily good value for money. I think one has to be a bit careful about generalising when it comes to tube amplifiers, I have heard some awful ones too (even from big brands). I find the M8 power amplifier to be particularly good, so just for fun, you might want to try your Premaluna as a preamplifier into the M8, if it has a variable pre output? If you like tubes, then do consider trying a pure class A tube amplifier too or even a Sugden A21SE or SPA4.
When do you go back? When it’s full Summer and you don’t want a heater of an amplifier making your room even hotter! 😀 Enjoy the music,
Best wishes
Harley
Great vid, thanks!! You revealed Quad pre to me! How it stands in terms of dynamics, speed, pace? Is it lively enough?
Thanks for the compliment. For me, the quad worked very well. No issues with dynamics that I remember. I use it in my listening / cinema room at home. It works just fine for me. I hope that helps?
I would use it for exactly the same needs. What I've read about others' experiences with this preamp is more or less about functionality and slightly softened tones. Considering that I would use it both for watching movies and for music, which in my case is based a lot on electronic sound (IDM, dubstep, techno), I'm wondering if it's just fast enough, if it has good bass control, if it's punchy, etc. . Thanks anyway for the quick reply!!
Dont judge anything in audio by what it costs. Its great to see UA-cam channel now showing actual measured performance.
🙏
Tried reading the subtitles. You know how it is with us music lovers! Promise to come back and give the video the attention to deserves.
Thanks for your comment. I hope one day, UA-cam will switch on Ai translation technology, so everyone can hear my voice in their own language.
A hint:
The Topping remote is the same one used on my inexpensive E30 DAC (which I use as a preamp…It drives my power amp perfectly, and cost only $150 several years ago).
I discovered that the LED’s in the remote were not aligned properly with the direction you think you are pointing it. Unsoldering and resoldering the diode into correct aligned position solved the problem.
Thanks for sharing!
My favorite preamps were Spectral DMC 6 II, Threshold FET 2 and Crown PSL-2.
🙏
The Sugden it’s beautiful. It looks more like a classic pre-amplifier. I’m really not fond of the single knobs that are now in vogue. I’m using a threshold FET 10 HL.I just love the knobs. Of course it sounds wonderful too, and matches nicely with my SimAudio W5.3SE.
I’ve been waiting for another one of your inclusive equipment reviews like this. Maybe you could do one on system racks. Thanks. Love your videos.
Thank you… so pleased you enjoyed it. And thanks for the suggestion.
Great video! Just had a question, did you happen to compare the sugden preamp to the pass labs xp22 by any chance?
Hi, if truth be told, I have not done a true side by side comparison. But I have heard both and used both. They are very different pieces of equipment. The xp-22 being a pure pre-amplifier with separate power supply, with much more functionality from the remote control. + build quality is fantastic. So if you have a really satisfying Dac already, then the Pass would be my preference - the performance is superb. But, if you’re looking for a very musical Dac and a pre, then the Sugden is very good value for money. If you don’t mind getting out of your chair to change inputs. I hope that helps?
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you, and actually, I should have specified, I am looking at getting the LA-4 preamp. The xp-22 also costs a lot more. I have heard the xp22, and it did sound great!
@@nskiad Hi, I found the LA-4 very pleasing. It works at its best, with only one output connected. You can manually switch it to standby, which is very useful. The only downside is the remote control, and the need to get out of one’s chair to change inputs. Musically, it’s absolutely fine and does its job very well indeed, without drawing attention to itself, if you know what I mean? I hope this helps? Good luck in your decision. Let me know how you get on!
@@PearlAcoustics Thanks! and will do!
Thankyou
I use a Music First passive
I got it second hand
Beautiful clean and smooth
At the end of the day you sold the Topping pre to us
Great vid
Hi, thanks (although it was not my intention to ‘sell’ any of the items, but to share my passion for each of them in their own way. Nothing is perfect but, indeed, at 600EUR the Topping is hard to ignore!
Thanks a lot for this video, very informative. I have a question related to the SPL Elector. Are there any differences between the Elector and the Phonitor X with regards to the quality of their speaker output? I do not want to lose the ability to use headphones in my system (and currently do not have a separate headphone amplifier) and the Elector does not have a headphone output. I know the Elector has more balanced and RCA inputs, but for my needs the two inputs in the Phonitor X (RCA for my Rega Saturn Mk3 and balanced for my Technics SL-1200GR via a Gold Note PH-10) are enough. In addition, the Phonitor X can be optionally equipped with a DAC and some digital inputs. What's the catch? Am I missing something here? Thanks a lot in advance for your feedback!
Hi, you’re very welcome. As far as I am aware the preamplifier sections are all the same, so you should be absolutely fine. I think the only difference is in the input and output options. But perhaps, to be 100% sure, you could reach out to SPL directly.
@@PearlAcoustics Thanks a lot for the reply! I will contact SPL directly.
@@incanus21 l am very interested to know what they say, please 👌
@@PearlAcoustics I wrote to SPL and they said that the speaker outpot in the Elector and the Phonitor X is the same.
@@incanus21 excellent
I have been enjoying my Emotiva PT2 pre. Great functionality. The built in dac and phono stage could been left out because they are sub par. I really like the high pass on the mains out and also the low pass sub out. And the FM tuner is a must have for me (classical music).It plays nicely with my diy Pass ACA.
Thanks for your comment. The Emotiva has a lot of features for such a reasonably priced piece of equipment
Super vid. I did look at the topping though it does have a very low input impedance making it, on paper, a tough load for some sources.
thank you very much for your very kind appreciation. Indeed, it is low in balanced mode. Good point. It did not seem to have a negative effect in my listening tests…. But then I didn’t use a tube driven source. However the RCA inputs (unbalanced) are nearly 10k, so I suppose if one detected a potential issue and had concerns they could use the single ended inputs? What did you end up going with, may I ask?
ahha! I ended up buying a module from Neurochrome - the universal buffer with the ultimate switch - one input - (sources DAC selectable) + TKD 4 gang pot. I like the look of the SPL, though for my budget off the shelf (almost...) I would be considering Schitt Kara, or the hypex preamplifier kit.
Rotel P5 - S5 combination sounds pretty amazing on the demo's I've heard. A respected professional reviewer compared it favourably with Dartzeel.
Thanks for your input
"It doesn't really matter, it's the music that matters" wise words
Thanks!
Excellent stuff. I have been contemplating preamps as a way to enable running two amps depending on weather (i don’t fancy running a Sugden even in an English summer). I’d already been looking at the mf m6 as one option, i guess the quad is worth considering too. Plus the power amp ought to have enough puff to run Magnepans, which i am at least curious about.
Daniel you didn’t watch the whole video based on your comment. By the way I subscribed to your channel based on this video really really enjoyed it. Thank you and look forward to more.
Thanks Michael, welcome to the channel! I hope you find other videos you like.
I follow many other reviewers on YT but I feel more connected with you because I simply feel your love for music and also I see that you are striving for perfection with humility. Please tell me what cables you use or you like to use the most in your system here in your listening/showroom in Belgium because I want to recommend to you one of the best interconnects I have ever experienced in my life and that I have loved so much that one night I put it under my pillow (crazy me). I mean what power cables, USB cables, speaker and interconnect cables do you use the most? Thank you!
Thank you so much for your very kind remarks and appreciation, they mean a lot to me and the team.
For loudspeaker cables, I use our own (2 x 80 strand very heavy gauge copper, per loudspeaker) with twist tight connects. For the rest, it’s a real mish-mash of mostly AudioQuest. We try to keep things reasonably priced, I am very curious to hear your recommendation! 😉
I enjoyed this video so much I started looking around the net and note the Topping can be had for around £525 new and SPT Phonitor 2s with the headphone amp for around £1000 in mint condition second hand. Tremendous value.
€750 for the upgraded Mola Mola remote looks seriously like arbitrary and predatory pricing.
I entirely accept the unit might be worth €9000, but the remote?
I have beautiful aluminium remotes from Kinki Studio, Jay's Audio and Allnic, all of which were included in the price of the unit.
Also, any idea if the Phonitor 2 contains the same preamp circuitry as the one you featured, Harley?
.
Thanks very much for your kind appreciation. I am led to believe that the preamplifier sections are basically all the same, apart from slight feature differences and are all built around SPL’s 120v rail technology. You could always reach out to them if you want to be a 100% sure?
Excellent video. Most of my amps are integrated, but recently I have been experimenting with vintage gear, and picked up a Sansui Ba-F1 power amp. A massive beast of a thing.
I am using a Sansui AU7700 integrated as a preamp, and am astonished by the versatility built in in the 70s. Firstly the ability to completely disconnect the pre from the power amp sections. Secondly bass, treble and mid-range adjustment with low pass and high pass filters, and a bunch of other options. Lots of inputs including twin phono inputs as well.
I think we have lost something in the last 50 years, and perhaps that audiophile obsession with simplicity and a straight wire with gain is misplaced.
Thank you for your comment and kind appreciation. You raise a very interesting point, especially as today (with switchable relays) we can add features and at the same time keep the circuitry clean.
@@PearlAcoustics And, of course, Harley I forgot the loudness button. Remember them? Boost the bass and treble a bit to preserve the musical impact for low volume listening. And it works!
@@jimfarrell4635 😉.
Naim NAC252. But Naim preamps are designed to work best with their power amps. Amazing gear.
Ok - thanks for that.
First of all excellent Video as always! What me makes me wonder ist that you did include the SPL pro gear but did not mention the RME ADI DAC FS which also has high reputations among the pro as well as the Hifi community.
Thanks for your comment wnd best Regards,
Horst
Hi, true… the list I had was very long, RME was on it, but I saw it more as a Dac and headphone amplifier, rather than a pure preamplifier. But it is a very good unit. Indeed.
@@PearlAcoustics Yes, IT IS a DAC, Headphones Amplier, a PreAmp, Equalizer and so on. As far as I know even compatible with SACD Players. Abmulti purpose Tool so to say. You could dedicate a whole video to this piece😀
@@horbus01 😉
You may want try the Topping amp LA90 discrete… although I did not keep.. for Jazz , classical , instrumental music… it was excellent.
Thanks for the tip
Musical Fidelity is still for me the best bang for the buck I've encountered. I have that pre in my setup. Some say it's a hard edged sound, but I've never felt that way about it. Running Confidence C1 and C4 platinums and I find the pairing hard to beat.
Indeed, I never found it hard either. If anything, I found it to be on the ‘warm’ side of neutral.
Have you any experience with the NVA passive preamplifier?
No, I am sorry, I don’t. Hopefully someone else will and will share their thoughts
@@inthefieldunderthesky thanks!
My ears perked up quite a bit when Harley mentioned (whispered?) that the Sugden DAC in their preamp is really good. If you have not yet discovered Mike and Dave's Hifi Riff (very much in the same low key conversational vein as Harley's channel, but with many an amusing aside, not to say Harley isn’t amusing of course 🙂), their recent review of the standalone Sugden DAC is well worth checking out. (They loved it too, and fleshes out Harley's comments.) My takeaway from this talk would be to pair the SPL Phonitor X (no DAC option) with the standalone Sugden DAC and get the whole nine yards.
I upped my audio journey back in 1995 when I bought a VAC tube amp along with an ARC LS15 tube pre-amp Still using them to this day with only one tube change after all these years I've added and changed source equipment and speakers over the years, but feel no need to change my beloved VAC & ARC pre amp
Although it’s expensive, I do believe that in the long run, high quality audio equipment works out at such great value for money (even when one ignores the possible re-sale value).
@@PearlAcoustics I have a good memory but it's short 😆 I think I paid around $2,500USD for the VAC and the same for the ARC LS15 in 1995 Pretty sure they are selling on the used market for close to the same
How about the parasound zpre3 preamp? Seems to be vesatile with all its connections, but ive not heard one. Do you think it is OK for 500 bucks? Thank you, enjoy your videos immensely!
Hi, thanks for your very warm and generous appreciation. I am sad to say, I have not heard the parasound pre… but I have heard good things about it.
Ended up getting a great deal on a new still sealed in box vincent sa93 plus preamp, dual mono design. Built like a tank and weighs a ton. Beautiful preamp, all Analog, no digital to be found anywhere. 700 bucks!
You missed explaining why you need a pre amplifier. I’m starting my first music system, and using as speakers the monitor audio gold gs60, and the sugden a21SE. For what I can understand the amp is more the. Enough to drive the speakers, do I need a pre-amp? Thank you for the amazing work
Hi, thank you for your question and very kind appreciation. Fundamentally, there are two kinds of amplifier a pre-amplifier (where the incoming information is either amplified from quiet to loud, or ‘attenuated’ from loud to quiet. Once we have set the volume the signal is sent to the power amplifier that amplifies the signal enough to drive the loudspeaker. The power amplifier has no attenuation, it just amplifies what comes in to it. Your Sugden A21SE is what we call an integrated amplifier, where the preamplifier and power amplifier are integrated into the same chassis. This is mostly done for convenience. However, the preamplifier (in the old days referred to as a ‘control unit’) usually has additional features like being able to switch between multiple inputs and sometimes bass and treble controls and even a headphone socket. These are the ‘features’ that I refer to in the video which can vary over time and can necessitate us changing our integrated amplifiers, while in all other circumstances, we are totally happy the the power amplifier section of our integrated amplifier. (I hope I am explaining this clearly). In short, you do not need a pre amplifier for your Sugden as it has one built in. However, if you want to connect a record player, you will need a little external amplifier that you would put between your Sugden and your turntable, similarly, if you wanted to connect headphones or shape the sound in anyway then you might find you need to add other components (including a streamer).
I hope I have answered your question? Enjoy your hifi, I am sure it sounds wonderful
@@PearlAcoustics thank you so much for this precious information. I have a rega turntable (p10, following your best advice :)) with the pre-phono and will soon add a streamer (probably the Eversolo A6 master edition/A8). For the streamer do you think I need to add any kind of pre amplification? Best regards
@@afonsomiguelcorreia you’re very welcome. No, your Eversolo will plug straight into your Sugden. You’ll have a lovely system then.
i use two integrated amps with pre amp and power amp separation connected together. i get a great sound.
👍
What about the Tim de Pavaracini 868PL or 912. Sublime tube based preamps
Good point. Unfortunately I have not had the pleasure in listening to these. I can imagine they must be very good indeed.
I really great round up of Reviews. I am somewhat surprised that you did not include an audio note product, since it is made in Britain and has a very high reputation.
Indeed, it’s a piece of equipment that’s eluded me. Thanks for the suggestion
It is such a well respected brand and I'd love to hear your take sometime. Some AN enthusiasts insist that all AN equipment must be matched, but they are still a viable option for people who don't want to have to "match" gear. Is that right? Have a great Sunday!@@PearlAcoustics
@@hilde45 thanks for the suggestion. Let’s see if AN want me to look at their gear…
Would be nice if they do, but unless you work for audio companies, you wouldn't need their permission to do an independent review. Other reviewers I know sometimes have fans send them a piece of kit or simply purchase one and re-sell it. I understand reviewing is not really your main profession, but I had assumed you were independent of companies' wishes. Perhaps I was mistaken. Take care!@@PearlAcoustics
@@hilde45 hi, sorry, I think I have given a wrong impression here. I am absolutely independent. What I meant was I didn’t have any intention of buying one at the moment but indeed maybe the manufacturer might reach out to me to lend me one, or, as you say, a customer. Often I am simply curious enough to go and buy a piece of equipment or borrow one and then buy if I like it.
As an audio equipment seller (import and retail) I used the Sugden LA-4 preamplifier for over a year, daily, with various power amplifiers, including monoblocks from PassLabs and Audio Reasearch. The LA-4 is a universal and very musical but also dynamic preamplifier. They sound, in my opinion, even better than the $10,000-$35,000 preamps from PassLabs. Sugden saves music from technology. Nelson Pass is a genius in audio electronics, but his preamplifiers are over-engineered and they sound a bit artificial, in my opinion, as well as his integrated and power amplifiers.
Thanks for sharing your experience and contribution to the topic
I have been using the sugden a21se signature for the last two years and have fallen for the musicality it has to offer. Your review only solidified my hearing. Than you very much for the reviews. Will we see you do a sugden masterclass DAC-4 review in the near future? I'm in for a change of DAC and will appreciate any help from your end regarding the sugden's performance as a dac with a sugden a21se signature to Living voice R25A speakers(90% streaming qobuz).
Hi, thanks for your kind appreciation. You’re in luck…. If you watch my latest ‘What Preamplifier video’ and go to the Sugden DAP 800 section, you’ll hear me talk about the DAC (it’s exactly the same as the DAC-4). Enjoy
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you very much for taking out time and keep up the great work sir.
Ive had the Quad Artea pre and power amps for a couple of years. Battle ship build and sounds superb. A bargain at the price and will probably outlast me.
Indeed!
Would you have a recommended preamp for a decware tori mk5 amplifier ?
Of course one logical choice would be their preamp the cost-325 ,
Any other experiences?
Thank you
CST-325
Hi, I am sorry I cannot help you there. I mention the Tori V in the video and a number of options but I don’t know the 325, but I am guessing, if it’s from Decware it should be ok? What you need us lots of clean, uncoloured gain
Very interesting video, I really enjoyed that. Have you ever heard of the Kenwood/TRIO 700C Preamp and 700M Power amp combination? I wonder how it would compare to these modern preamps. Wonder what other offerings there are from Japan these days.
That’s a good point. I only wanted to cover products that were readily available off the shelf to purchase. Japan has many amazing businesses but many have outsourced production to China, I see nothing wrong with that but it does leave me wondering (like you) who is still producing in Japan?
@@PearlAcoustics Indeed, it's slim pickings it seems, all I can find is Esoteric which is high end Teac and of course Yamaha, Onkyo, etc. I'm sure there must be some obscure tube models still being made.
I forgot Accuphase and Luxman.
@@crtgamer2355 indeed! 😉
@@PearlAcoustics For tubes,Air Tight, Kondo, Shindo, Leben, Concert Fidelity.
Currently my system has both Pass XP-15 phono and XP-22 linestage preamps.They pair very well with my Audio Research VT-100 Mk III amplifier. I have regrets about selling some of my former preamps, especially my Audio Research D-76A, my Mark Levinson ML-1 and especially my Audible Illusions Modulus 3B for its simplicity of design.
Thanks for sharing! You’ve certainly had / have some very high-end equipment. Enjoy the music.
I did enjoyed!!! 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 hi from Los Angeles California
Thanks!!! Hi from Belgium 🇧🇪 😀
@@PearlAcoustics Belgium 👍 . I have a cuestión?… what is the difference of the base when has the hole 🕳️ port in the back or in the front or even open baffle or seal covered box with no air come out ??
You have any video of this?
@@Yeybeth that’s a very big question indeed and there have been hundreds of books and white papers on that topic! I have not made a video on it, not sure how I would tackle it, because you have to see each design approach in their context. If you have specific questions or concerns with regards our approach, you can reach out to us via our website. Sorry I can’t offer more here.
@@PearlAcoustics yes 👍 for sure I will reach and find !! I’m glad you txt me back !! Keep helping us with your videos I really enjoyed 👍
Great video! So many preamps. I wish you could have evaluated your UK brethren Max Townshend's(RIP) Allegri Reference Passive Preamp. It isn't cheap but it checks all your boxes. Thanks!
Thanks! Indeed, Max was a dear friend. And one hell of a personality. I remember my first meeting with him, when I was about 22, he was working on the ‘rock’ At the time. Happy days.
@@PearlAcoustics Everyone says the same thing about Max. And he is sorely missed....I corresponded with Max who told me that except for very long distances, he preferred RCA's(had more "pure sound") to XLR's due to the added circuitry in XLR's. Controversial perhaps but he was steadfast in his belief.
If I were asked what *one* component in my system I would not give up it would be really, really difficult to pick just one. The contest would be between my Lab12 Pre 1 preamp and the DECware “Zen amp” SE84UFO. The Zen is just SO good, especially since I did some tube rolling and settled on a set that I think (so far!) is optimal.
That said, even with speakers with sensitivity of 90 dB, the little Zen can be challenged with some recording and volume levels. Aside from great reviews that’s one reason I bought the Lab 12 preamp. It has gobs of gain, besides being a clean and “pure” component.
So overall if forced I’d say the Pre 1 would be my choice. Not that it is much good without the other components!
😀
Does the Elector sound better than the Artera or is the difference more in the package/ vu meters etc?
Oh, that's difficult as I have not heard them side by side as a true scientific experiment. But the SPL is designed to perform on the highest level but does not have the features of the QUAD. I would guess the QUAD is a bit 'warmer' and the SPL more 'accurate'. I don't know if that helps?
You did it again! Great video. Very last point about enjoying the music is truly paramount. -- I would have liked a bit more focus on pure pre-amps, i.e., without built-in phono-stage and/or DAC. It also seems that the most significant difference between preamps is tonal coloration and detail, but sound stage is implicitly (by lack of mention) the same. Interesting. I am more of a sound-stage person, and I think that is nothing that the ear can get used to, while tonal balance can be EQ-ed mentally to a degree.
Thank you very much for your kind words. You’re absolutely correct, the absence of me mentioning ‘soundstage’ is a big oversight. I am with you in this. Although I really want purity, transparency, above all I want a nice wide soundstage. All the instruments clearly separated. I tend to feel that this is mostly controlled by the power amplifier (it either has it, or it doesn’t) but you’re 100% correct.
@@PearlAcoustics Thanks for clarification. The soundstage observation was not meant as a critique, just an observation. And it seems from your reply that my implicit between the lines reading was correct. Very interesting. I had not heard anyone noting that soundstage is primarily controlled by power amp, less so by other components. Good to keep in mind.
@@danielgeiger7739 👍
I find SS preamps offer less soundstage depth than tubes. Its partly the tubes used, but the coupling capacitors can have a major effect.
V-cap odams are amazing!
@@20CycleMonger thanks for sharing your observations with the community
Have you tried amplifiers from NVA? They are a British company with a less is more ethos similar to that of Pearl Acoustics.
Hi, that’s interesting you ask, because I haven’t. Indeed, they seem very interesting indeed.
Michi is terrific!
Are any of the pre amps with xlr true balanced pre amps?
The Pass Labs XP-12 certainly is.
I believe so. For example the Sugden DAP 800 and Musical Fidelity.
Love to hear more about what the Preamp should do.... some people swear for rube preamps. Other solid state. What is that discussion?
That’s a very big discussion. As the French say, “there’s more than one way to boil an egg”. I don’t think there’s a definitive answer but it is an interesting topic in itself.
Anything a tube can do a transistor can do better (lower noise, lower distortion).
like the song: What a difference a preamplifier makes.....only 24 hours in a day
I love my Parasound 2100 preamp (with tone controls (treble/bass), balance, home theater bypass). The Parasound 200pre is the newer model with a builtin dac.
For even better realistic sound, I added Cardas Clear USB ($200) cable, Cardas Parsec RCA ($300/pair).
source=Apple Music lossless.
😀👍
As an avid DIY'er, preamps are possibly the hardest piece of gear to get right in terms of system matching and neutrality. Some thoughts:
There's no excuse for a preamp with a high noise floor - that's not a price issue, it's a lazy engineer issue.
Impedance matching: input impedance should be >10x the source output impedance. Output impedance should be at least 10 times less than the power amps input impedance. This is often overlooked. Check the specs before buying, especially when mixing valve and solid state gear.
Gain is good, until it's not: A lot of preamps offer huge gain and you end up using only a 3rd of your volume control travel which means you loose resolution and attenuation 'sweet spot'.
Tone Control! Please don't be offended but my room is not perfect, and I listen to a range of genres with varying recording quality...
I tried DSP and found it was not ideal for sound quality. A well designed tone control circuit that can be completely disabled is a beautiful thing.
Thanks for sharing your experience and findings with the community
Hello Harley have enjoyed your reviews.
As a matter of interest - the Makua pre phono stage when coupled with a silver moving coil sut sounds better than the renowned ypsilon vps 100 phono stage.
Thanks for the kind appreciation. Thanks too for your interesting comment
❤
I had bought a Sugden Headmaster (Bijou line) to use as a headphone amp. When I find myself needing a preamp I thought I'd give it a try. I've felt no need to change it.
Excellent
No tubes pre in here ! I would have loved you to try a Decware pre.
The PS Audio is a tube pre. (Hybrid). But I understand your comment. Sorry not this time.
Charming as we've come to expect Mr. Lovegrove.
My question:
Why dont most preamps have a balance control?
An essential feature for those of us with asymmetric room layouts.
Wouldn't it be easy to implement with relay based volume control?
Im enjoying my Musical Paradise MP701mk2 tube and capacitor rolling preamp. Check out Thomas' recent review: "Five+ preamps in one"
I use the input trim pots on my Bryston amp to provide balance control;-)
The Topping pre is tempting so i can use balanced outs from my Ares12th...
🎵🎶🤫🎶🎵
Thanks for your kind words. You raise a good question. Balance controls became conveniently ’out of fashion’ as a purity argument / which obviously also reduced costs. In a way, this is what my video alluded to - choosing a pre amplifier is not all about purist sound quality. That’s why I brought in the Lyngdorf because you can program balance etc, all in the digital domain. For Topping to add balance would be complex as they have already squeezed so much into their little box. Your solution seems to work for you but indeed, the balance control is so useful. The QUAD Artera Pre has a very nice set of controls, balance, bass, treble and their famous ‘tilt’ system. It’s a marvellous preamplifier and extremely good value for money as it is also beautifully made.
Good points.
Maybe the balance control feature could just be implemented on the programming and improved remote control, so badly needed?
Cheers Harley 🎵🎶🤔🎶🎵
@@carlitomelon4610 👍
Douglas Self's, such as the Elektor 2012.
Always partial to a unit you own. But in the middle of your list should be the Parasound JC2BP, an older unit with quiet remote switching and motorized volume control. While dual mono, there are pots that let you tweak the channel balance if you have a problem. It has less balanced inputs and outputs then some newer units. The tweak needed is to apply film against the LED's for power and input to reduce the brightness. It is an American classic.
Thanks for the suggestion and your kind words
As I never bother with a remote and I'm not listening as such whilst changing volume so relay clicks aren't an issue either. I only use two sources, Vinyl and digital so multiple inputs don't matter.
Sound quality is the ONLY important factor for me so the Topping has got to be the winner.
Thanks for your input on the topic, very clear! 😀
I agree!